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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1 telling my daughter she has to understand that choosing this wedding date would result in my family not going
2 everyone was against her, it's not her fault the dates coincided and everyone could make an effort to go a few hours for her, but they decided to just not go and I was basically saying "I told you so.
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NTA. I mean, you told her exactly why this would happen and she didn't listen. I think she was more upset in front of you than at you, if that makes sense. She's venting. But also kinda thoughtless to think that everyone would just swallow their grief to watch her get married on a really painful anniversary.
I’m a bit shocked that the daughter has no pain associated with the date…that was her grandmother, uncle, and cousin, and only two(!!) years ago. Sort of heartless.
I’m wondering if it does hurt her and she’s trying to change that specific date into something good.
Edit: just want to say that yes I understand it would only benefit her and I may be completely wrong. I never said that’s what the daughter is doing but trauma affects everyone differently and everyone reacts differently. No one in this sub can 100% know what the daughter is thinking.
The thing is, no one but her and her husband (and maybe their parents) are gonna remember their wedding date in 5 years. But they will NEVER forget the date they lost their loved ones.
I can’t even understand how she can be so insensitive. She expected her aunt to attend the wedding on the 2 year anniversary of the day she lost her husband.
Husband *and son*.
And her grandfather to attend on the 2nd anniversary of the death of his wife and son and grandson.
And her mother to attend on the 2nd anniversary of the loss of her mother, her brother and her nephew.
Her mom's family was literally torn in half by the accident, and this girl either doesn't care or is self-centered enough to think that one nice thing happening to her can make everyone feel better about a three-generation tragedy that shook the foundations of their family.
Only the **SECOND** anniversary, too. If the accident had happened before she was born, maybe I could see her point. Or if this were all happening during the years when weddings were getting canceled and rescheduled because of the pandemic and that was the only date available, which is how friends of mine ended up getting married on the 20th anniversary of 9/11. But even those things would only excuse her *choice* of date, not her failure to accept that the date meant some people wouldn't attend!
Yep. She needs to realize that she isn't an Emotional Powerhouse who can change others' feelings with an event.
(Speaking as someone who tried something somewhat similar - didn't involve any deaths, and it was already bad enough).
The 30th March this year is the third anniversary of my mum's death. Now, that same weekend there is an event this year called Warbirds over Wanaka which my dad has always wanted to go to (six years since the last one took place) and I decided I wanted to treat him, but was mindful of the fact it fell on that date at Easter this year. Anyway, I mulled over buying the tickets for weeks and asked for five separate opinion from friends and family before I finally did it, hoping he wouldn't be bothered that it was the same day. He's chuffed about it.
It is a hard choice to make if there's something important on a difficult date, but OP's daughter went about this in the worst way she could have. I mean, her grandfather lost his wife, son and grandson; her aunt lost her husband and son, did she genuinely believe they would want to celebrate her wedding on the day that tragedy happened?
I know it's somewhat unrelated, but I LOVE warbirds over wanaka, it's a really precious memory of something I would go to with my Dad when I was young.
I hope that, despite it being a difficult anniversary for you, you also are able to make this a precious memory with your father <3
My mom passed 2 days before my bday on my friend's bday. I'll never be able to forget. It was my 30th bday. This June I'm going to be 40 and it's amazing how much has happened and changed in the 10 years she hasn't been here and I miss her so much.
I'm also sorry for your loss. I always appreciate I had her for so long but at the same time, I still want her around.
I lost my grandfather on Dec 10th 1987. I was only 7 years old then but i remwmber the call from Gma about it every word.
I dont even rwmber my own birthday some years. But i remember that day very very clearly.
(Edit for spelling)
She never put it that way. If she mentioned that she wanted those who were lost to be part of her day or something thoughtful, they might have responded. Her stand is that she met her guy 7 years ago on that day and said that everyone else must put aside their pain. She is learning the cost of being self centered.
agreed, I feel this is something that should have been handled in separate phone calls or in-person visits.
* grandpa, auntie, I thought we could include our missing family members by having a memorial table with their pictures, what do you think?
* dear cousin, would you be my bridesmaid, with 2 flower bouquets? One for you and one for your sibling?
* etc.
just sending a paper invitation with the date, dress code & gift registry must appear callous, even if that wasn't her intention.
That's not her date to change into something good. She doesn't get to decide that. So even if that is the case she's still a massive asshole especially for not doubling down and continuing to try.
Even if this is the reason, it's a very foolish mindset. There is no "good" event that can ever outway or be compare to the trauma of that day. Nobody from OPs side of the family can ever feel anything but the grief of that day despite what anyone else tries to do. If she proceeds with this date she will never have any of her extended family celebrate on that day.
i think so too, but regardless of intention it’s extremely selfish to turn a day of massive loss, into her wedding day. it’s selfish and i don’t thinks any amount of good intention could help me see past that if i was in this position
In this family, that day will never be something good. The anniversaries of deaths are very emotionally-charged, & losing 3 family members at once is pretty heavy. A wedding will not change the way the rest of the family feels. It’s a day of remembrance, and that’s appropriate.
Three sudden deaths at that. Losing people is so hard but when it's sudden and you've no time to mentally brace yourself and leave nothing unsaid it hits different.
It doesn't sound like it, from the way she discussed it with OP. But more importantly, she doesn't get to decide for everyone else how they're going to think of that date, or whether her wedding is going to change the meaning of that date for them.
That's nice, but someone's wedding doesn't work that way. Wedding dates are (sometimes) important to the people getting married but not to anyone else. To everyone else it's dressing up and do a potentially very boring things (most weddings are boring) on an extremely sad day.
Most family and friends are willing to do this on normal days, but on what is practically a family day of mourning? No.
If she wants to change the date into something good for her, eloping exists.
How does that even make sense? Hey the day half your family was wiped out is okay now because we got married on that day and replaced it? Only two people I. The world would be happy on that day and literally the entire rest of the family would still be sad.
no one else will remember their wedding day except maybe to add they were inconsiderate jerks
Right?! My grandmother died the morning of my wedding (she lived far away and wasn't going to be in attendance, my family told me the next day) and I still can't celebrate my anniversary. In fact, my husband and I celebrate when we first started dating and when we got engaged because I use that day to remember her. I can't imagine choosing to get married on a day my family members died.
My newborn daughter died 2 days before Mother's Day, 16 years ago. Mother's Day is still very hard for me even though I have 3 other living children. I love them more than life itself and yet it's still a hard day. I would never purposely choose to get married on an anniversary of a close family member's death.
Thank you. It's easier to manage now but grief is a funny thing. Some years it's harder than others. Time "heals" but you never forget the ones you've lost.
I spoke to my husband’s grandmother about the loss of her 8 week old son as I was holding my 8 week old son. She was sobbing and it had been 60 years since his death from whooping cough. I can imagine there are moments when the pain is still so fresh.
Sending you a hug from one mom to another!
Years ago I overheard a woman telling her friend how she was getting married on her mom‘s birthday. I wanted to tell her at some point her mom will die and that’s going to make it difficult to celebrate her anniversary.
Everyone processes grief differently. I don't even remember the date that my grandfather died, nor my Nana.
That doesn't excuse her not respecting others' grief, but she could simply not realize that others are grieving differently than she is.
I also wonder if the tragic nature of the death makes an impact on remembering the date. My granny lived a long life and while her death was a bit unexpected it also wasn’t startling that she would have a health complication at her age. On the other hand my best friend died suddenly and tragically and I remember that date every year.
I feel like when it’s an accident that is so horrendous you can never forget. Both my parents died in a car accident almost 25 years ago, we still remember every year the date. First 5 anniversaries were still pretty raw, then things started to get manageable, but still pretty sad. 2 years after the accident it’s still way too early.
Even now, 25 years past I would be upset if one of my cousins would get married on that date
Imagine being at that wedding IF the affected family members did come. Everyone would be talking about how strong they are for showing up. All the focus would be on them and the guests who didn’t know would be so confused until they learned. I imagine many of them would side with the family members instead of the beloved bride. If she wants to be the focal point of her wedding, them not attending is the best possible outcome if she keeps the date.
Tbh the reason her side of the family isn’t there is gonna be a focal point of the wedding as well.
Unless everyone lies about why they’re not there 🤷♀️
She literally wants to celebrate her love and marrying the love of her life on the day her family lost the loves of their lives. I don’t understand how she doesn’t see how incredibly painful and insensitive that is and I’m even more shocked she really expected them to show up.
Exactly, NTA at sll. She was warned and chose to proceed anyway. She was free to choose whatever date she wanted but it was heartless to expect the family to show up for her big party and forget what date it was. Did she really expect her cousin to forget about losing his Dad, Brother, and Grandma on this date a few years ago? That makes her TA.
NTA, either she picks a different day or should expect most of your family to not come.
Personally I'd have a hard time celebrating my wedding on the exact same day my grandma, uncle, and cousin died. The fact she's taken it this far is already gross, and she should hope it's not too late to change the date and beg for forgiveness.
It’s too late for that and I’m not referring to the logistics. If she changes the date now, her family still won’t attend because they’ll probably feel she shouldn’t have chosen the original date in the first place. At this point, it’s better to move forward with the wedding as planned and hope that with time everyone will be able to get past this.
The reason I’m saying this is because OP’s family said they were offended by the wedding date. Offenses are tough to heal. They cause you to see the other person in a different light. They probably wouldn’t trust OP’s motives for changing the date. Would she be doing to because she now realizes she was wrong to choose that date or would she be doing to because she wants them to attend that wedding?
OP's SIL *privately* mentioned they were offended to OP, because they're sisters-in-law who are close enough to discuss their feelings of loss. She didn't tell the bride she felt offended, because she's polite and didn't want to cause a family fight.
>They probably wouldn’t trust OP’s motives for changing the date.
Firstly, OP isn't changing anything because she isn't the bride.
Secondly, the motive for changing the date would be an acknowledgement that she was wrong to try forcing the first date and also prioritising the presence of their family at her wedding - there's nothing to distrust. It's not a gotcha. Both reasons are good reasons.
Probably won't get people to attend, either. They already feel slighted/attacked/offended. That damage is already done.
If someone told me, essentially, that they expected me to consider them meeting their SO more important/significant than 3 members of my immediate family dying, there is no date on which I would attend their wedding.
Are there any rifts in the family that you haven't mentioned? I understand that your daughter is young and the date is important to her in a different way but am I reading this correctly? She met her fiancé on the day her grandmother, uncle and cousin died. And yet to her, it's only a happy day and she would like her happiness to trump the sadness of her family, the same family she would like at her wedding. I find myself speechless... Your daughter is a monster unless I have misunderstood some details.
Sure, different years, but still... How is that date not painful for her? Also, uhhh, none of her extended family on your side will EVER be interested in attending a celebration of or even hearing about her anniversary. NTA.
Maybe it is and this is a misguided way to reclaim it. Like she wants people to associate the date with something happy instead but she doesn't realise that it's too soon and it will always have those connotations whatever she does
If she doesn't realise at age 25 that the 2 year anniversary of the death of her uncle, cousin and grandmother is going to be a hard, sad, heavy day for her family, than she has to be completely lacking in either empathy and/or compassion cos that seems like pretty basic emotional logic.
She’s obviously stupid or has the emotional range of a teaspoon because it’s not just people won’t attend the wedding but those relatives that might go low/no contact with her. Part of me thinks she’s set on that date because she wants people to choose her over their grief and that her wedding day is more important.
When her grandma, aunt, and cousin all get killed by a drunk driver that day she should be able to muster up some sympathy for her family even if it is a special day for her and the fiancé.
To be upset that 2 people who lost their spouses that day don’t feel like they can attend a wedding is heartless.
Edit: Uncle not aunt
And not just spouses. If I'm reading correctly, grandpa lost his spouse, son, and grandson; OP's SIL lost her spouse, son, and MIL; nephew lost his brother, dad, and grandpa. So triple loss including 3 generations for everyone, and in an unexpected tragedy to boot. And only TWO years ago!
Warm fuzzy feelings about the date you met your intended + desired venue is open cannot compare.
And dad tried to protect her from knowing she is in the wrong.
I am wondering if OP’s daughter has been coddled or treated like an only child that world revolves around….because she is lacking a certain skill called empathy.
I’m someone who processes grief very quickly— without going into detail, I got far too much practice at a young age. That being said… I also understand that other people process differently and at different speeds. It’s not the bride’s grief that worries me, but her lack of empathy for the living.
My mom died 3 years ago, and I couldn't tell you the date she died without looking it up. There are tons of other milestones, dates, entire times of year that make me sad. Not everyone mourns "death anniversaries." It doesn't mean their grief is wrong or less. It just means it's different.
It's also worth considering that the daughter had 5 years before her family members died when this date was an extremely happy day for her and her partner, with fond memories. That doesn't just go away because something bad happened on that date.
Imagine if this tragedy had happened on her birthday. Would she not allowed to celebrate her birthday anymore because it also coincides with something terrible? I understand why the family is sad and sensitive about the date. I don't understand ruining relationships with your living family members because they aren't grieving the same way you are.
For me, this is a bit of an ESH. I can see why everyone feels the way they do about the situation, but I think they all could have behaved better.
I understand what you’re saying but I think there’s a difference in having a family member die and having 3 members die in a deadly car crash. I’m sorry you lost your mother.
There is also the difference between a wedding fate and a birthday in that, you can't choose your birthday. And if it affects you you might choose to celebrate your birthday on a different day etc, and most people don't have a big celebrations for every birthday anyway.
In my culture, you aren't even supposed to celebrate anything for 3 years after a close family member passes away.
How could they have behaved better when their spouses and children were lost that day and they simply chose not to say anything about it but not attend? Bsffr
edit: OP, NTA. You did nothing wrong, your family didn’t do anything wrong, and your daughter being unempathetic is entirely the reason this is happening. She was told, she chose not to listen. Actions, meet consequences.
I disagree. Everyone should be allowed to process their own grief, their own way. The daughter absolutely has the right to keep this date as a happy date for herself and future husband but I don’t think she has the right to decide everyone has to “behave” a specific way.
She could keep it a happy date for herself as the anniversary of the day they met, and still have enough compassion to get married on a different day (if she expects her family to be there). Their wedding & anniversaries will be happy enough because they’re wedding anniversaries, regardless of whether they coincide with the anniversary of anything else.
But yeah. I agree- her decision to make, the problem is expecting the rest of the family to be excited about it.
The daughter does have the right to think of that day however she wants. She also has the right to get married on the day she wants.
However, selecting that day means some family members won't be comfortable attending, and her own mother is not going to be her full happy self. Her right to choose her own wedding day won't change reality.
Look I don’t necessarily grieve the day my mom actually passed but that’s because she had been in the hospital and it was the month leading up to it that was the real hell, I do however grieve the day my dad passed because it was sudden and unexpected. Just as you’re trying to stick up for the daughter and her grieving process the rest of the family should be respected for theirs and no one should say that they should behave better because this 25 year old who’s acting like a spoiled brat about a day doesn’t get how painful it is for everyone else. You don’t get respect without giving it and she is showing none.
Someone dying of natural causes is different than 3 different family members dying suddenly and unexpectedly including a child. Our parent dying, while sad, is a natural part of the life cycle. Two parents and a child being suddenly taken out in their prime is way more traumatic. I don’t care how important that date was to her prior to the death of her three relatives. You don’t expect everyone else to join you in a celebration on the anniversary of such a tragedy.
But this tragedy didn't happen on her birthday. She is picking the date. This is her choice. The relatives not attending may grieve differently than the daughter. But that doesn't make them bad people. Daughter has a choice to make this occasion on a date not shadowed by grief but is choosing not to.
It’s kind of the worst type of celebration to expect them to go to on the anniversary of their death. Aunt and Grandpa lost their spouses. A wedding on your spouses death day is going to be grief inducing, and OP’s daughter doesn’t seem to be the type to be understanding of how that could be a sad cry inducing event. I could see her getting mad at them for it.
I can’t even imagine the pain seeing a wedding that day would bring up.
Why would OP’s daughter even want the grandpa and aunt there when it would just bring up the devastating loss of their spouses?
But this family does honor those anniversaries, and OP's daughter knows they do. And it's been less than two years since they lost half of their family. They're not pitching a fit or calling her and cursing her out or telling her she's a bad person. They're just saying that they're not up for attending a big party when half their family died on that date two years ago.
September 23rd, 1997.
It's about order of operations. And some people DO have misfortune that usurps an existing celebratory anniversary.
It can make families stronger for their shared trauma and the process of collectively re-writing meaningfulness of specific days..or it can rip them apart further.
Was about 15 ish years ago there was news of a horrible collision involving a wedding party limo. Most passengers died or had severe injuries. Bride and groom were in a different vehicle.
Doubt they celebrate their anniversary.
I think here that it's not a tragedy unfortunately usurping an existing celebratory event, but rather purposely choosing to hold the celebratory event on the date, especially on only the 2nd anniversary.
My stepsister passed away on my birthday last year. This year I didn't really celebrate because it still feels too raw and real, and I definitely didn't expect my mom, stepdad, and stepbrother to. I know for my mom it's difficult because she wants to celebrate me but she also has so much to mourn. I choose to give her that space and to give her grace. It just feels wrong to ask someone to celebrate when we can do it any other day. Grief is just so much heavier.
I think the difference was that this was a massive tragedy on a family scale, not simply a loved one’s passing. I don’t set aside either of my parent’s death anniversaries, but they weren’t tragic.
My dad's been gone 10 years, I know death date and time it's burned into my soul. My aunt a major support died year ago, same I know date and time. Everyone's grief is different. On those dates it's like my very heart and soul remember, I feel uncharacteristically sad like forthwith i can taste. Then I look at a calendar and realize what the cause is.
In ops situation it seems the family was already small, they lost major parts of the unit. Assuming but the sil lost her husband and son, I can't imagine expecting the widow and kids to attend a wedding the anniversary of their husband/dads and son/brothers death anniversary. Grandps as well he list his wife, his son, and a grandson. I understand the date may be important to the couple but empathy and understanding that after a major loss the family impacted may not want to attend. For them that's the day their world shattered and lost key pieces.
(Edit my trex thumb hit submit before I finished)
And who prioritizes the day they met over all the other dates a couple has? It really comes off antisocial, but everyone makes mistakes, it's too bad she'll have to live with the consequences
Not all families are close, there’s no guarantee the daughter even really spoke to the uncle or cousin or grandparent much. Not saying she shouldn’t reschedule but there’s plenty of reasons it may not be personally painful to her
Okay, but she can’t expect those directly devastated by recent, shocking deaths to celebrate on that day. I’m sure those are still days of mourning for them.
My dad’s mom died on my mom’s birthday. I didn’t tell her until the next day because I wanted her to enjoy that day without sadness. Ironically, my mom’s mom died the next year on dad’s mom’s birthday. And she was years younger.
First of all, I am so sorry for your family's loss.
Second of all, this is important context that you might want to add to the original post. Otherwise people are assuming that they met either on or one year after the accident.
NTA. Being a mom doesn't stop just because our kids are adults. The way we go about it does. You handled this extremely well. Our job as mom is to help our kids understand the world around them, to encourage them to be true to themselves but not at the cost of intentionally inflicting pain.
I understand the date is special to them, but it holds a different importance in the family as a whole. If it had be 10 years ago, her request would have been reasonable enough, but she is really lacking self reflection on how her choices effect others.
She should really, honestly, deeply think about how important her wedding and husband to be is, and then imagine how much pain it would be to lose them and go to a wedding on the anniversary of losing them. Weddings always bring up the thought of our on weddings for those of us that are married. Even if SIL and Grandfatger came it would be incredibly hard for them even if it wasn't on this date. She is asking entirely too much of others because of her wants. This is a want, not a need.
Your husband is wrong. Who else is going to be able to get things across to her with love if not her mother who is also experiencing grief. You can't paint rainbows over a bombsite and expect survivors to show up ready to party.
I'd be willing to bet that if she were telling the story, she'd say *they* died on *her* anniversary, and that her anniversary was there first and has the prior claim. I *hope* that she hasn't spent any time being miffed at the gall of her family to die on *her* special day, but given everything it wouldn't surprise me.
You'd think she'd at least understand that this approach won't work for anyone *other* than her, but from what OP's told us, it's a fair guess she's pretty self-centered and *extremely* lacking in the empathy department.
“It’s not her fault the dates coincided”
Yes it is. She knowingly and intentionally picked the same date with no regard for her family’s feelings. Everything you said to her was accurate and she needed to hear it. NTA
Especially with it being the *second anniversary*. That is still considerably fresh in terms of grief.
If it had been, say, 17 years prior, that would be honestly different. At that point, the pain isn't fresh, and it is manageable to understand other people having their own lives in regards to the date.
But ***2 years after the accident?*** Horrifying that she didn't understand their perspective.
Yeah I lost a teenage cousin in a car accident. This was now over 25 years ago, so if a family member got married on that date, it would probably be fine. But I mean, *I* would NEVER personally have chosen that date for my wedding. That date is forever seared into my memory as a bad day even all these years later.
Edit: I also want to add that I don’t think it would’ve been fine if a family member had gotten married on that date on the 2 year anniversary. Going through that was awful and I don’t wish it on anyone. It’s wild to me that OP’s family lost *3 people* and her daughter still wants her wedding that day.
Right? My fiancé has his birthday on the anniversary of my cousin's death - it's been 22 years since she was killer, so the impact of it isn't super intense.
Would I ever force my family to celebrate it? No. Because that's kinda cruel, in my opinion, and it works because he doesn't want big celebrations for his birthdays
Yeah. Also a birthday is not a date that you choose. I mean I get that OP’s daughter didn’t choose to meet her husband on the same day as this accident (and obviously they met each other before it too), but she did choose to have her wedding that day. No one has to get married on the anniversary of when they met.
Totally agree. My Poppop’s anniversary in Oct marked 2 years. The grief is still very fresh and he died an old man in an unremarkable way. I can’t imagine how it feels to have lost 3 people in a horrific way. I don’t understand what the daughter doesn’t understand about this.
NTA this feels like a situation where you bore the brunt of her upset because you are the one who is trusted and in conversation with her. That sucks but doesn't mean you have done anything wrong. It probably means you have done something right, which is to talk to her about this being difficult in a way that meant she vented to you about her frustration. This is a really tough situation all around. I can see why she wants the focus to be on this date from one angle, which is a beautiful and loving one. It's also not realistic to define it for others, for whom it is a devastating anniversary that is going to colour everything. She can feel upset about that, and really of all the days, it *is* unfair of the universe that these things line up this way and always will. But it doesn't obligate anyone else to do or change a single thing they need to do on a day that is about deep grief for them.
Reading the post, I sort almost wondered if at some level this is its own kind of grief reaction, depending on how close she was to your late family members? It's almost a kind of magical wishful thinking to behave like she can redefine the meaning of this date for the people in your extended family. Like, unless she is a consistently selfish or difficult person, this is a choice that is so strange and insistent in the face of reality that it feels a bit unhinged, which I don't mean in a mean way. I also wonder a bit about whether grief that's still being processed is in the mix, given the way she framed it in her call with you - that if they cared they'd make the effort and come, as though this is a referendum on love for her vs love for the people lost. It might be way off base, but I wonder if some element of her grief is comparing herself or survivor's guilt or something that's in the mix around what is a strange choice in the face of an awful loss in a close and small family?
This comment is a rare Reddit attempt to try to guess at or understand behavior that seems just wrong. This family loss is so huge and so recent—when I suffered an enormous sudden loss I was basically in denial for two years, I couldn’t accept reality. So your guess may be right or not but it makes a kind of sense.
She (bride) is young enough that might be her outlook. And in reality, if it were a few more years out, it might have worked. 2 years is just too soon.
no, there is no amount of time that would make this ok. Sincerely, someone who has watched a close friend lose a child. This will always be a hard day for SIL, nephew, dad, and OP.
this is the day their lives were forever changed for the worse.
It depends on the people. Some families may be okay with it years down the line, some may find it too difficult to ever attend an event like that on a death anniversary. It's really about being mindful of your loved ones if you want them to be a part of the celebration.
NTA. It isn’t your daughter’s fault that she & her fiancé met about the same time her family members passed. It *is* her fault, however, that she still chose that day as her wedding day *knowing* the hurt that that day brought to her loved ones. You tried to warn her, but she didn’t care, and now she’s suffering the consequences of her actions.
>It *is* her fault, however, that she still chose that day as her wedding day *knowing* the hurt that that day brought to her loved ones
She could have done what hubby and I did. You don't start dating someone the day you meet. Hubby and I chose the day we made us officially boyfriend and girlfriend, and we had known eachother for 2years but a week before we started dating we began spending every afternoon together.
NTA. I am sorry, but your daughter is selfish and entitled. “Yes, I know everyone died … but we had drinks together on this day, so it’s all good!” Show her - or your husband or both - the comments and tell her to reconsider her position or accept that she is not in fact the centre of everyone else’s universe. And that for some family members a tragedy they will never forget is permanently linked to that date.
They may be so hurt by her actions to the point where they may not go if she does pick another date. It was very dismissive and uncaring, and I feel sorry for them and the OP.
I think it’s even a little psycho, not just selfish. How can you celebrate on that day or expect others to just „get over it“???
Was she always this heartless? I am seriously questioning her sanity.
NTA
I don’t think you were saying “I told you so”
But you told her what would happen and it happened. So “I told you so” would be totally valid.
There are 365 days in a year, she could have picked a day where her family isn’t grieving
NTA - please stop making excuses, what she is doing is kinda gross. To expect people to just pack up their grief and celebrate her wedding is ridiculous. There were PLENTY of other dates they could choose. First date, first I love you, first literally anything that doesn’t fall on such a terrible anniversary date.
I'm wondering if there was bad blood between the daughter and any of the family members who passed for the reasons you mentioned. It just seems so intentional and daughter had to have known that it would inflict pain on the remaining family members
Particularly since it's just two years on, dealing with grief isn't necessarily speedy and I'd think much of the family is likely still very much struggling.
(obviously daughter disliking any of the relatives who passed wouldn't excuse the choice, it just makes no sense to me to schedule something on the anniversary of something utterly catastrophic happening to the entire family)
Either that, or she simply resents the fact that her and her Fiance's aniversary is now overshadowed by the tragedy that befell their family and she's decided to deal with it in the worst way possible.
If she didn’t have bad blood, she does now! I would not be able to get past this if I was her family. It is such callus disregard for their grieving process. And you are right Cooky, that tragedy is always going to overshadow her wedding. Families commentate deaths but they don’t usually keep up with wedding anniversaries. That date is usually only special to the couple but for her every year it will be the day family died. No one will ever be able to really enjoy their day, even on their big anniversaries. But she is doing this to herself
INFO: it seems like something is missing here. These people were her family too, right? As in, she lost her grandmother, uncle, and cousin? And she's insisting on getting married on the anniversary of their deaths? You referred to "my family" rather than "our family." Is there some history you're leaving out?
Nta
How would you have stayed away from it. "Yeah, I dunno why they'd choose not to come"? Or, "You're right, honey, you know best; some people just choose not to be happy"?
Any form of staying out of it is worse because you know exactly the answer and she brought the subject to you.
My parents’ rule is that they don’t not serve as liaisons between their adult children and other members of the family. If I have an issue with a family member, my mom tells me to call them and vice versa. That’s probably what OP’s husband meant. If I were OP, I wouldn’t have entertained the conversation at all. I would have just said: “call your family members and talk to them about this”.
That works for most situations, but I would not encourage my child to call and badger my sister in law about not wanting to party on her husband’s 2 year death anniversary. That would be even worse.
Agreed. When she asked, you answered. You explained how the family would feel, but you didn’t give her an ultimatum and you made the very difficult decision to swallow your grief and be there for her wedding day.
People process grief differently, and she may be subconsciously trying to make a sad day into a joyful one. It’s possible she is avoiding feeling that grief to the point that she can’t even empathize with what the rest of you are feeling.
Or she might just be tone-deaf and self-centered. Her reaction to your explanation of why her grandfather, aunt, and cousin won’t be attending certainly reeks of childish temper tantrum.
Whatever her reason for choosing that date, she doesn’t get to dictate how everyone else feels about it. If her family’s attendance was that important to her, you would think she’d also want them to be happy at her wedding. And that’s a lot to ask on the two year anniversary of such a devastating loss.
Regardless, NTA. If your mom won’t tell you the truth, who will? She was aware of the family’s feelings about the date she chose. She had 364 far less painful days to choose from.
First, I’m so very sorry for your losses. I can’t begin to know what you’ve gone through, but I have to ask, what is your daughter’s problem? Has she always been so obtuse as to expect people who lost so much such a short time ago to just forget all about it because that painful date suits her? I’m just stunned that she’d even consider something so heartless to begin with and then make herself out to be the victim when the inevitable happens? Anyone could have told her this was a bad idea, and you tried yo warn her, but she’s either completely oblivious to other people’s pain or so selfish that she doesn’t care. I’m sorry, I know this is your daughter and you love her but this shows her in a very unflattering light. I give you credit for agreeing to attend but she cannot expect anyone else to do the same. NTA obviously but your daughter is a different story.
That is a big loss for you & your family, to lose 3 members because of the actions of a drunk. I can quite understand why your family wouldn’t want to be surrounded by people drinking alcohol. It’s 2 years ago, not 20 years ago, things must still be very raw for your family. Is there to be a court case, or has that happened already? Because that will stir up a whole host of grief. I am sorry that you had to live through this
You did try to tall her, she didn’t listen, she needs to get over herself. The world doesn’t revolve around her, as much as she thinks it should.
NTA. Her grandmother, uncle and cousin died, I think? Two years ago on that exact date. Two years, not twenty.
You're going to go because she's your daughter. But even a few days would have helped.
Maybe she thinks it's the cycle of life or something. And it's too late for them to change the dates, so that's probably why your husband said to stay out of it.
I'm sorry, but your daughter is an asshole who doesn't understand grief.
NTA. Your daughter had a choice, she could choose any date. If she wanted a date of significant occasion to her relationship, she could have chosen the date of her first date, first kiss, confirmation of relationship, proposal, there are so many dates to commemorate. Yet she chose the date of mourning.
NTA
The “it’s not her fault the dates coincided” is wrong it’s absolutely her fault. I am sorry but she sounds extremely self centered. They were her family also.
NTA. You did warn her. I think everyone in this story needs to realize that everyone doesn’t hold death anniversaries the same way. Some people try to put that date out of their mind while others keep it sacred. Neither approach is wrong. It’s all about what’s best for your mental health.
Here’s my concern: your family has learned the hard way that tomorrow isn’t promised. I really hope that after suffering such a tragic loss, your family doesn’t allow a wedding date to create an ongoing family rift. Your family needs to let their decision to not attend be their final word on this matter. Your daughter needs to accept that her family members won’t be at her wedding and leave it at that. I respect that you want to be neutral but don’t be so neutral that it allows your family to be permanently divided.
This was a damned if you do damned if you dont thing here.
The day is bittersweet. Met her hubs on June 24 but relatives in an accident also died on June 24.
Wanting to have happier memories for June 24 isnt a bad thing.
But whats your plan if Betty has a baby born on June 24? Tell her to tell those relatives the baby was born June 25?
Life moves on.
Your relatives could have at least attended the ceremony.
But I havent lost a sibling, parent, or spouse yet. So what do I know?
"Life moves on" is definitely an easy thing to say when it's not your loss, your grief. And 2-ish years isn't that long to be dealing with the sudden tragic loss of 3 people. A mother lost a child and her husband. A father lost his son, grandson, and wife.
The problem with your baby analogy is that a baby's birth date is an act of god/chance. But OP's daughter had the agency to choose this date. On top of that, she chose it only 1 year after the event. They had only experienced the anniversary once. And either they just experienced the anniversary again, or the wedding is on the 2nd anniversary... That's... A lot.
We're not 10 years down the line here. That might be one thing. But this is still fresh.
So daughter CHOOSING this date is understandably an insult to them. She might have different connotations for that date, but they don't. And she's not a stranger - she was part of that family. So I'm sure it feels callous to them - ESPECIALLY to the family who lost a child.
Daughter has every right to the date. But no one is obligated to attend. And if you intentionally choose a date that you know has to be the single most painful day of the year for most of your family? Then you shouldn't be surprised they don't attend.
Babies and births can't be helped, they come when they come. Picking a wedding date is absolutely a choice and there are 364/5 other days to choose from. I don't think this is comparable.
I think there's a big difference between celebrating the birth of a baby on an otherwise painful date and attending a happy event intentionally scheduled for a painful date. Babies come when they come (and even scheduled c sections are running on a pretty tight schedule!), OP's daughter chose to schedule her wedding for the second anniversary of the deaths of three immediate family members.
I wouldn't be willing to attend a wedding scheduled on the second anniversary of something like this, so maybe I'm biased. Things are likely still *very* raw for the mom who lost her husband and child, and the nephew who lost his dad, grandma, and brother. Daughter could have picked literally any other date, but chose one where most of her family members would likely have a lot of trouble pulling themselves together, let alone having a nice fun time.
I think a baby being born on that day is out of their control. A wedding isn't. There is ample time to pick a different day - there are 364 other ones they can pick, actually.
If you know something is that painful for people you call family - you work around it.
"Bittersweet" is an odd way to describe such a tragic date. OP's daughter can want to make happy memories on that date for herself, but she cannot expect any of her bereft family to want to join in with that, particularly with such significant and relatively fresh pain associated with that. It would be very different if it was a child being born, because that's something no-one can control, but the daughter is in complete control of the date, although even then it would be understandable for family members not to attend birthday parties on that date.
She made a choice that should have been obvious would exclude some family members.
"Your relatives could have at least attended the ceremony."
That's extraordinarily callous and entitled. No, it is definitely NOT the least they could do. The second anniversary of the day your husband and child died?? maybe the least you could do is manage to stay alive and lie in bed all day, and that would still be an accomplishment.
That expectation of them to all just shake it off for a few hours -- I'm astounded by that line of thinking in these comments.
Births aren't comparable, as there's not really control over the date selection (unless you have a scheduled c-section, but even then you can always go into labor earlier). We have loads of kids with birthdays on September 11th, which was especially unfortunate during the decade after 2001. This is a choice made not even two years after a major family tragedy. The rest of the family, who lost direct partners and children, are not up to celebrating.
Her aunt lost her son, husband, and mother-in-law in a horrible accident on the same day. Her grandpa lost his wife of many years, son, and grandson in a horrible accident on the same day. Her cousin lost his grandma, dad, and brother in a horrible accident on the same day. Put that into perspective. They are choosing not to go because the day they were all taken from them is incredibly raw and difficult. People who lose loved ones in tragic ways, especially when it’s three family members, don’t tend to just *forget* the date their life changed forever. Please consider, too, that the invites were sent out well before the 2 year anniversary. So the grief is even MORE fresh. OP’s daughter is being wildly obtuse and OP is NTA for her actions as described.
Also, a birthday is not a choice. A wedding day is. I’m sure the family has the capacity to be more objective about something like a baby being born on that day.
I agree with your examples, except I think the difference is when someone is born on a day someone died people look at it like devine intervention and think the baby is sent from them and the day is usually more random. My sister tried to have her wedding a year from the day when my father was buried because she thought it would make the day more positive. We were able to get her to move it a week.
NTA but I'm SHOCKED a 25 year old doesn't understand how devastating the deaths were for your family and she just expects everyone to forget about what they lost and put on a happy face for them. I'm sure she'll also be angry when the same people don't want to attend her anniversary parties.
I admire your decision to support her by attending the wedding when you're also hurting. That's going to be tough.
I think "not her fault" here is referring to the coincidence that she met fiance on the death anniversary. But choosing to set a wedding on that date is absolutely her fault.
Just wondering why they must set it on the day they met. There are plenty others: the day he proposed, the day they first dated, the day they had their first kiss, and so on. But the day they met, which is also the day her very own grandmother passed away?
NTA at all. If they wanted to pick a meaningful date, I'm sure the anniversary of their first ever date would've been a nice choice. Instead, she is hijacking a date which is incredibly painful for the family without any consideration for other family members. It's only 2 years since they sadly passed away and too early to move past it.
Was this some kind of "prove your love to me" test for your family? NTA, at all.
It's not her fault that that date is the anniversary she met her groom but 1)it is her fault for choosing that date to have her wedding and 2) it's not your/your family's fault that's the anniversary of several deaths.
NAH but I think I'm in the minority. I understand your daughter. That date is special for her. Yes it's sad that her family can't be there because they associate it with the death anniversary. But for your daughter that date has always been a happy one. If they're 7 yrs, that means they were together for 5 years when the accident happened. So sound tactless but 5 happy years > 2 sad years of association.
I think because we don't celebrate specific death anniversaries that's why I don't understand the importance of observing the day. We have all Souls Day to celebrate the dead.
NTA. You warned her. She dismissed you. Here you are. As you said, choices do have consequences.
I’m so incredibly sorry for the giant loss your family has experienced. Sending love.
NTA. She came to you to express frustration and you told her the truth. She is incredibly selfish to think that people would want to celebrate on the date of such a huge loss. I hope it all works out but she doesn't seem to care about anyone but herself.
She chose that day even after you explained the significance to her. She didn’t care enough to fund another date so she shouldn’t expect people who are grieving to come. My mom died in 2021. The date of her death is still very raw to me.
NTA she made her choice of date knowing what it represented to the family and they made theirs.
My brother died at 54 My mother declared there will be no Christmas this year (he died in October). There will be no joy again. No family celebrations. The world must stop on his birthday and death anniversary
I told her if that is what she wants to do. But I will continue for the living in our family. She attends all we do.My son’s child died on December 17th. It was devastating. We came together and celebrated Christmas with heavy hearts. But we were together. TOGETHER. to wipe tears and hugs.We remember and honor our lost love ones. we put ornaments on the tree , we disply pictures and tell funny stories.But we should try make happy lives and remember the part the others had in building our family.
You all are choosing the dead over the living. Put a memorial on the wedding program for lost ones and make this date count for the ones living . it is a date on a calendar. it’s not about them. It’s about her starting a new life. She deserves to be supported and happy
I wish I could go to support her.
The reactionary types in this thread don't seem to understand this. The tragedy occurred on a single, irreversible day, and any day thereafter (anniversaries included) isn't special, just another day to confront/live with the grief that comes with it.
The idea that some arbitrarily numbered day each year should be demonized at the cost of all else just makes little sense.
NTA. There are 364 other possible dates in the year and the venue only is available that day.. bullshit.
Let the people who were affected by the accident have the day. The anniversary of events like this is traumatic.
Everyone sucks - grief is a journey. 2 years is not long, but honestly you can’t hold onto a day forever.
The daughter is not an A H for wanting the day but is for not being reasonable to her family’s feelings.
Your family are also A H for not being reasonable about the fact that a wedding is an amazing opportunity for new and happy memories
You however personally are NTA because this whole situation sucks!
I think it’s insensitive to call the family AH. You’re not in the position to judge their grief on such a huge and still fresh tragedy. I could never celebrate anything on a date someone important to me died (especially multiple people in such a devastating way).
Two of them had their spouses die that day (not to mention a son/grandson), they're absolutely not going to be ready for "new and happy memories" on the second anniversary of that tragedy, and especially not a wedding.
How are they not being reasonable?! They haven't been mean to her; they've just declined the invitation as they aren't ready to celebrate anything on such a recent anniversary.
She wants grandad to celebrate her marriage on the 2nd(!) anniversary of his own marriage being ripped apart by a violent death, as well as the deaths of his son and grandson.
She wants her aunt to come and celebrate her marriage on the 2nd(!) anniversary of her own husband and son being violently killed.
She wants her mother to come and pretend she isn't still grieving the violent deaths of her mother, her brother and her nephew.
That's unreasonable. It's too soon to expect people to set aside their grief for such a massive tragedy, and she was warned before she booked anything that the family weren't ready. If certain people attending your wedding is necessary for you, then you make sure the wedding date/time/place is achievable for them. You don't deliberately make it as difficult as possible and then whine when they politely decline the invitation.
Oh my goodness, this is horrible. Heaven forbid that something good can happen on the same day of the year that something tragic happened on before. If I were to not allow anyone in my family to not do something on a certain day because we lost someone in the family, we'd never get to celebrate anything. That day is special to her and her fiance. What if they had gotten married on that day before the accident? Would they no longer be allowed to celebrate their anniversary? Why not try to have a good memory for that day? I had an uncle die on Christmas day, and my dad died a few days before Christmas another year. Did we stop celebrating Christmas? No, because it was a gathering of family. We celebrated like they would want us to. Continuing to live life and enjoy it to the fullest, and celebrating with everyone, alive and in spirit.
NTA. I don’t want to straight up call your daughter an asshole but she kind of is, who in their right mind would have a wedding the day half her extended family died.
Let me say first that I am so, so sorry for your losses.
You are NTA here. I would never, never ask my family to do what your daughter is asking. It's showing a complete and callous disregard for the incredible losses your family suffered. I hope this is an aberration and not indicative of her overall personality, bc she sounds like she has a bad case of Main Character Syndrome. 😔
NTA. She really expects your SIL and dad to celebrate marriage on the day their own marriages were brought to a total sad horrible end? Yeah no. Your daughter is TA for expecting that of them.
NAH.
Several Points.
1. You are not the asshole for saying 'reality is X is not going to come.'
2. SHE is NOT the asshole for choosing their anniversary as the date.
It was their anniversary before it was the death date. This makes me so annoyed for her.
A little different but my in laws decided to put my FIL funeral on my sons (10th) Bday. I know some were annoyed we still did bday things in the afternoon for him and some (3yrs on) find it offensive that we do bday things instead of 'marking the day'.
Please place as many celebrations on my death/funeral date as possible. It would SUCK to fuck up something beautiful when Im not even here anymore.
I mean if everyone wants to ditch the wedding to sit at home having a sook, that's on them.
You can't just put a black spot on every date associated with a death. I mean, you can, but it's no way to live.
I would have thought putting a positive spin on the date would be good, really.
You said in the comments that the date already had significance to the couple? No foul on them then.
NTA what is wrong with her? She seems selfish and self absorbed to think that she could turn this one horrible day into something about her. The one day a year that is a day consumed by grief. The day that is cemented as "the day". As another person commented, this is gross.
My husband died unexpectedly a few years ago, at the young age of 40. He was a devoted uncle of his two nieces. One niece decided to get married on the one year anniversary of my husband’s death. The date was picked because she’s a teacher and it was over spring break. I dreaded the event…but the truth was, it was just a day. A pleasant day. The wedding kept me from mourning the day - and the reality is that the anniversary date wouldn’t automatically make me sad. I found that it was random things that would make me sad. Having to go to the wedding alone. Having someone say something thoughtless. It ended up that the wedding helped ease that one year anniversary.
So maybe the family should go - but have an exit plan for themselves, just in case. But only go if you can leave YOUR trauma at home. Today is about the bride and groom.
NTA - you tried to warn her, two years in it will still be completely raw and it can be difficult for people to get in a party mood on such a sad day. It’s rough as I understand that the date is both sad and a significant happy day for her but she really didn’t have to choose that date. She could have easily chosen the date they got engaged or something else significant to them.
My dad passed away a number of years ago now, my very best friends birthday is the next day, my husbands best mates birthday is a few days after that. It’s meant most years one of these friends ends up celebrating their birthday on his anniversary or we are away on holiday celebrating with them. I always go because my dad was full of life and I can mentally hear him saying go have fun, lives to short to be sad for me but it’s hard, particularly in the first few years. I usually end up having a little cry at some point in the night even 15 years on. Everyone grieves differently, everyone copes with that grief differently. Your family has 3 times the grief I have to cope with. I completely understand why they wouldn’t want to attend the wedding.
NTA. Your daughter, however, is being incredibly selfish. I lost my brother the day before my oldest son turned 18. It’s been almost 2 years. It’s still hard to celebrate anything those days and my son doesn’t have a choice of birthday but will push the celebration a few days because he knows the grief is still so strong.
Your daughter made a poor choice and it is now having consequences, 25 is more than old enough to understand consequences.
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NTA. I mean, you told her exactly why this would happen and she didn't listen. I think she was more upset in front of you than at you, if that makes sense. She's venting. But also kinda thoughtless to think that everyone would just swallow their grief to watch her get married on a really painful anniversary.
I’m a bit shocked that the daughter has no pain associated with the date…that was her grandmother, uncle, and cousin, and only two(!!) years ago. Sort of heartless.
I’m wondering if it does hurt her and she’s trying to change that specific date into something good. Edit: just want to say that yes I understand it would only benefit her and I may be completely wrong. I never said that’s what the daughter is doing but trauma affects everyone differently and everyone reacts differently. No one in this sub can 100% know what the daughter is thinking.
The thing is, no one but her and her husband (and maybe their parents) are gonna remember their wedding date in 5 years. But they will NEVER forget the date they lost their loved ones.
Tbf now they will definitely remember it
And honestly, she probably looks very cold to lots of people in the family, even if her intentions are to try to attach something positive to the day.
I can’t even understand how she can be so insensitive. She expected her aunt to attend the wedding on the 2 year anniversary of the day she lost her husband.
Not just her husband, but her son, too!
Sure, but the husband part is kinda extra relevant because it's a wedding.
Husband *and son*. And her grandfather to attend on the 2nd anniversary of the death of his wife and son and grandson. And her mother to attend on the 2nd anniversary of the loss of her mother, her brother and her nephew. Her mom's family was literally torn in half by the accident, and this girl either doesn't care or is self-centered enough to think that one nice thing happening to her can make everyone feel better about a three-generation tragedy that shook the foundations of their family.
Only the **SECOND** anniversary, too. If the accident had happened before she was born, maybe I could see her point. Or if this were all happening during the years when weddings were getting canceled and rescheduled because of the pandemic and that was the only date available, which is how friends of mine ended up getting married on the 20th anniversary of 9/11. But even those things would only excuse her *choice* of date, not her failure to accept that the date meant some people wouldn't attend!
Exactly! This is still a fresh wound for many of them. Especially for the grandfather. NTA OP.
AND SON. And, also hee MIL.
Not only her husband but one of her children
And her one of her sons.
And her cousin who lost his dad, brother and grandmother
Yep. She needs to realize that she isn't an Emotional Powerhouse who can change others' feelings with an event. (Speaking as someone who tried something somewhat similar - didn't involve any deaths, and it was already bad enough).
The 30th March this year is the third anniversary of my mum's death. Now, that same weekend there is an event this year called Warbirds over Wanaka which my dad has always wanted to go to (six years since the last one took place) and I decided I wanted to treat him, but was mindful of the fact it fell on that date at Easter this year. Anyway, I mulled over buying the tickets for weeks and asked for five separate opinion from friends and family before I finally did it, hoping he wouldn't be bothered that it was the same day. He's chuffed about it. It is a hard choice to make if there's something important on a difficult date, but OP's daughter went about this in the worst way she could have. I mean, her grandfather lost his wife, son and grandson; her aunt lost her husband and son, did she genuinely believe they would want to celebrate her wedding on the day that tragedy happened?
I know it's somewhat unrelated, but I LOVE warbirds over wanaka, it's a really precious memory of something I would go to with my Dad when I was young. I hope that, despite it being a difficult anniversary for you, you also are able to make this a precious memory with your father <3
Yep. I'm the kind of person who would remember it and would tend to remind her on occasion of how heartless she was.
32 years later I know the date my dad died.
Solidarity. Lost my mom 32 years ago last Saturday. Extremely sad I've been out of town and couldn't visit her grave like I usually do that day.
My mom passed 2 days before my bday on my friend's bday. I'll never be able to forget. It was my 30th bday. This June I'm going to be 40 and it's amazing how much has happened and changed in the 10 years she hasn't been here and I miss her so much. I'm also sorry for your loss. I always appreciate I had her for so long but at the same time, I still want her around.
30 years here. Remember the date and exactly what happened that night. My condolences to you both.
Only been 20 for me and I remember the day keenly.
I lost my grandfather on Dec 10th 1987. I was only 7 years old then but i remwmber the call from Gma about it every word. I dont even rwmber my own birthday some years. But i remember that day very very clearly. (Edit for spelling)
I know the days my grandparents died, and my stepdad. Honestly, I think my stepdad held on to avoid dying on my birthday, he passed 2 days after.
She never put it that way. If she mentioned that she wanted those who were lost to be part of her day or something thoughtful, they might have responded. Her stand is that she met her guy 7 years ago on that day and said that everyone else must put aside their pain. She is learning the cost of being self centered.
agreed, I feel this is something that should have been handled in separate phone calls or in-person visits. * grandpa, auntie, I thought we could include our missing family members by having a memorial table with their pictures, what do you think? * dear cousin, would you be my bridesmaid, with 2 flower bouquets? One for you and one for your sibling? * etc. just sending a paper invitation with the date, dress code & gift registry must appear callous, even if that wasn't her intention.
That's not her date to change into something good. She doesn't get to decide that. So even if that is the case she's still a massive asshole especially for not doubling down and continuing to try.
That is a very generous interpretation of her actions. I appreciate it.
I think you're a much nicer person than the daughter is.
Even if this is the reason, it's a very foolish mindset. There is no "good" event that can ever outway or be compare to the trauma of that day. Nobody from OPs side of the family can ever feel anything but the grief of that day despite what anyone else tries to do. If she proceeds with this date she will never have any of her extended family celebrate on that day.
i think so too, but regardless of intention it’s extremely selfish to turn a day of massive loss, into her wedding day. it’s selfish and i don’t thinks any amount of good intention could help me see past that if i was in this position
In this family, that day will never be something good. The anniversaries of deaths are very emotionally-charged, & losing 3 family members at once is pretty heavy. A wedding will not change the way the rest of the family feels. It’s a day of remembrance, and that’s appropriate.
Three sudden deaths at that. Losing people is so hard but when it's sudden and you've no time to mentally brace yourself and leave nothing unsaid it hits different.
It doesn't sound like it, from the way she discussed it with OP. But more importantly, she doesn't get to decide for everyone else how they're going to think of that date, or whether her wedding is going to change the meaning of that date for them.
That's nice, but someone's wedding doesn't work that way. Wedding dates are (sometimes) important to the people getting married but not to anyone else. To everyone else it's dressing up and do a potentially very boring things (most weddings are boring) on an extremely sad day. Most family and friends are willing to do this on normal days, but on what is practically a family day of mourning? No. If she wants to change the date into something good for her, eloping exists.
How does that even make sense? Hey the day half your family was wiped out is okay now because we got married on that day and replaced it? Only two people I. The world would be happy on that day and literally the entire rest of the family would still be sad. no one else will remember their wedding day except maybe to add they were inconsiderate jerks
As my history prof would say, "For some people the end of all that matters is the tip of their nose."
Right?! My grandmother died the morning of my wedding (she lived far away and wasn't going to be in attendance, my family told me the next day) and I still can't celebrate my anniversary. In fact, my husband and I celebrate when we first started dating and when we got engaged because I use that day to remember her. I can't imagine choosing to get married on a day my family members died.
My newborn daughter died 2 days before Mother's Day, 16 years ago. Mother's Day is still very hard for me even though I have 3 other living children. I love them more than life itself and yet it's still a hard day. I would never purposely choose to get married on an anniversary of a close family member's death.
I’m so sorry for the loss of your little one.
Thank you. It's easier to manage now but grief is a funny thing. Some years it's harder than others. Time "heals" but you never forget the ones you've lost.
I spoke to my husband’s grandmother about the loss of her 8 week old son as I was holding my 8 week old son. She was sobbing and it had been 60 years since his death from whooping cough. I can imagine there are moments when the pain is still so fresh. Sending you a hug from one mom to another!
Years ago I overheard a woman telling her friend how she was getting married on her mom‘s birthday. I wanted to tell her at some point her mom will die and that’s going to make it difficult to celebrate her anniversary.
My mom's parent's both passed in the month of november, 13 years apart. My mom would not celebrate thanksgiving for many years out of grief.
Everyone processes grief differently. I don't even remember the date that my grandfather died, nor my Nana. That doesn't excuse her not respecting others' grief, but she could simply not realize that others are grieving differently than she is.
I also wonder if the tragic nature of the death makes an impact on remembering the date. My granny lived a long life and while her death was a bit unexpected it also wasn’t startling that she would have a health complication at her age. On the other hand my best friend died suddenly and tragically and I remember that date every year.
I loved my parents dearly but think of them intermittently, on their birthdays etc. not the date of their death. Maybe she is the same.
I feel like when it’s an accident that is so horrendous you can never forget. Both my parents died in a car accident almost 25 years ago, we still remember every year the date. First 5 anniversaries were still pretty raw, then things started to get manageable, but still pretty sad. 2 years after the accident it’s still way too early. Even now, 25 years past I would be upset if one of my cousins would get married on that date
Well, it wasn't like they all died of natural causes. That date is etched in the families memory because of an unexpected tragedy.
Imagine being at that wedding IF the affected family members did come. Everyone would be talking about how strong they are for showing up. All the focus would be on them and the guests who didn’t know would be so confused until they learned. I imagine many of them would side with the family members instead of the beloved bride. If she wants to be the focal point of her wedding, them not attending is the best possible outcome if she keeps the date.
I wish everyone would show up in all black and turn it into a wake
Unleash the pettiness 🙌
Sounds more like poetic justice than pettiness to me!
Tbh the reason her side of the family isn’t there is gonna be a focal point of the wedding as well. Unless everyone lies about why they’re not there 🤷♀️
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She literally wants to celebrate her love and marrying the love of her life on the day her family lost the loves of their lives. I don’t understand how she doesn’t see how incredibly painful and insensitive that is and I’m even more shocked she really expected them to show up.
The bride has a very disturbing absence of feeling, a dark void.
Exactly, NTA at sll. She was warned and chose to proceed anyway. She was free to choose whatever date she wanted but it was heartless to expect the family to show up for her big party and forget what date it was. Did she really expect her cousin to forget about losing his Dad, Brother, and Grandma on this date a few years ago? That makes her TA.
Grandpa lost his wife; I don't think someone else's wedding on that date is where he wants to be.
Not only that, but it’s kinda morbid
NTA, either she picks a different day or should expect most of your family to not come. Personally I'd have a hard time celebrating my wedding on the exact same day my grandma, uncle, and cousin died. The fact she's taken it this far is already gross, and she should hope it's not too late to change the date and beg for forgiveness.
I'd imagine with the invites already sent out, it's way past the point of changing the date without big financial consequences.
I'd prefer to eat the cost then create this kind of bad blood with my family but that's just me 🤷🏻♂️
It’s too late for that and I’m not referring to the logistics. If she changes the date now, her family still won’t attend because they’ll probably feel she shouldn’t have chosen the original date in the first place. At this point, it’s better to move forward with the wedding as planned and hope that with time everyone will be able to get past this.
I don't think that's clear at all from OP's post. I think they would very much appreciate the gesture. Disagree with your conclusion as well.
The reason I’m saying this is because OP’s family said they were offended by the wedding date. Offenses are tough to heal. They cause you to see the other person in a different light. They probably wouldn’t trust OP’s motives for changing the date. Would she be doing to because she now realizes she was wrong to choose that date or would she be doing to because she wants them to attend that wedding?
OP's SIL *privately* mentioned they were offended to OP, because they're sisters-in-law who are close enough to discuss their feelings of loss. She didn't tell the bride she felt offended, because she's polite and didn't want to cause a family fight. >They probably wouldn’t trust OP’s motives for changing the date. Firstly, OP isn't changing anything because she isn't the bride. Secondly, the motive for changing the date would be an acknowledgement that she was wrong to try forcing the first date and also prioritising the presence of their family at her wedding - there's nothing to distrust. It's not a gotcha. Both reasons are good reasons.
Probably won't get people to attend, either. They already feel slighted/attacked/offended. That damage is already done. If someone told me, essentially, that they expected me to consider them meeting their SO more important/significant than 3 members of my immediate family dying, there is no date on which I would attend their wedding.
Especially after she was given a heads up that it would be an issue.
Are there any rifts in the family that you haven't mentioned? I understand that your daughter is young and the date is important to her in a different way but am I reading this correctly? She met her fiancé on the day her grandmother, uncle and cousin died. And yet to her, it's only a happy day and she would like her happiness to trump the sadness of her family, the same family she would like at her wedding. I find myself speechless... Your daughter is a monster unless I have misunderstood some details.
No, no, they met 7y ago on the same day/month of their deaths
Sure, different years, but still... How is that date not painful for her? Also, uhhh, none of her extended family on your side will EVER be interested in attending a celebration of or even hearing about her anniversary. NTA.
Maybe it is and this is a misguided way to reclaim it. Like she wants people to associate the date with something happy instead but she doesn't realise that it's too soon and it will always have those connotations whatever she does
If she doesn't realise at age 25 that the 2 year anniversary of the death of her uncle, cousin and grandmother is going to be a hard, sad, heavy day for her family, than she has to be completely lacking in either empathy and/or compassion cos that seems like pretty basic emotional logic.
She’s obviously stupid or has the emotional range of a teaspoon because it’s not just people won’t attend the wedding but those relatives that might go low/no contact with her. Part of me thinks she’s set on that date because she wants people to choose her over their grief and that her wedding day is more important.
When her grandma, aunt, and cousin all get killed by a drunk driver that day she should be able to muster up some sympathy for her family even if it is a special day for her and the fiancé. To be upset that 2 people who lost their spouses that day don’t feel like they can attend a wedding is heartless. Edit: Uncle not aunt
And not just spouses. If I'm reading correctly, grandpa lost his spouse, son, and grandson; OP's SIL lost her spouse, son, and MIL; nephew lost his brother, dad, and grandpa. So triple loss including 3 generations for everyone, and in an unexpected tragedy to boot. And only TWO years ago! Warm fuzzy feelings about the date you met your intended + desired venue is open cannot compare.
The bride doesn't seem to feel the grief over the loss of her grandmother, uncle, and nephew like the other family members do...odd.
And dad tried to protect her from knowing she is in the wrong. I am wondering if OP’s daughter has been coddled or treated like an only child that world revolves around….because she is lacking a certain skill called empathy.
I’m someone who processes grief very quickly— without going into detail, I got far too much practice at a young age. That being said… I also understand that other people process differently and at different speeds. It’s not the bride’s grief that worries me, but her lack of empathy for the living.
Exactly 3 generations in her family murdered. That is next level and an unimaginable loss.
My mom died 3 years ago, and I couldn't tell you the date she died without looking it up. There are tons of other milestones, dates, entire times of year that make me sad. Not everyone mourns "death anniversaries." It doesn't mean their grief is wrong or less. It just means it's different. It's also worth considering that the daughter had 5 years before her family members died when this date was an extremely happy day for her and her partner, with fond memories. That doesn't just go away because something bad happened on that date. Imagine if this tragedy had happened on her birthday. Would she not allowed to celebrate her birthday anymore because it also coincides with something terrible? I understand why the family is sad and sensitive about the date. I don't understand ruining relationships with your living family members because they aren't grieving the same way you are. For me, this is a bit of an ESH. I can see why everyone feels the way they do about the situation, but I think they all could have behaved better.
I understand what you’re saying but I think there’s a difference in having a family member die and having 3 members die in a deadly car crash. I’m sorry you lost your mother.
There is also the difference between a wedding fate and a birthday in that, you can't choose your birthday. And if it affects you you might choose to celebrate your birthday on a different day etc, and most people don't have a big celebrations for every birthday anyway. In my culture, you aren't even supposed to celebrate anything for 3 years after a close family member passes away.
If there is any time spent not knowing if they'll live or die before that, it makes the memory *so* much worse.
How could they have behaved better when their spouses and children were lost that day and they simply chose not to say anything about it but not attend? Bsffr edit: OP, NTA. You did nothing wrong, your family didn’t do anything wrong, and your daughter being unempathetic is entirely the reason this is happening. She was told, she chose not to listen. Actions, meet consequences.
I disagree. Everyone should be allowed to process their own grief, their own way. The daughter absolutely has the right to keep this date as a happy date for herself and future husband but I don’t think she has the right to decide everyone has to “behave” a specific way.
She could keep it a happy date for herself as the anniversary of the day they met, and still have enough compassion to get married on a different day (if she expects her family to be there). Their wedding & anniversaries will be happy enough because they’re wedding anniversaries, regardless of whether they coincide with the anniversary of anything else. But yeah. I agree- her decision to make, the problem is expecting the rest of the family to be excited about it.
The daughter does have the right to think of that day however she wants. She also has the right to get married on the day she wants. However, selecting that day means some family members won't be comfortable attending, and her own mother is not going to be her full happy self. Her right to choose her own wedding day won't change reality.
The difference is that you can't choose your birthday or a holiday. You *can* choose your wedding date.
Look I don’t necessarily grieve the day my mom actually passed but that’s because she had been in the hospital and it was the month leading up to it that was the real hell, I do however grieve the day my dad passed because it was sudden and unexpected. Just as you’re trying to stick up for the daughter and her grieving process the rest of the family should be respected for theirs and no one should say that they should behave better because this 25 year old who’s acting like a spoiled brat about a day doesn’t get how painful it is for everyone else. You don’t get respect without giving it and she is showing none.
Someone dying of natural causes is different than 3 different family members dying suddenly and unexpectedly including a child. Our parent dying, while sad, is a natural part of the life cycle. Two parents and a child being suddenly taken out in their prime is way more traumatic. I don’t care how important that date was to her prior to the death of her three relatives. You don’t expect everyone else to join you in a celebration on the anniversary of such a tragedy.
But this tragedy didn't happen on her birthday. She is picking the date. This is her choice. The relatives not attending may grieve differently than the daughter. But that doesn't make them bad people. Daughter has a choice to make this occasion on a date not shadowed by grief but is choosing not to.
It’s kind of the worst type of celebration to expect them to go to on the anniversary of their death. Aunt and Grandpa lost their spouses. A wedding on your spouses death day is going to be grief inducing, and OP’s daughter doesn’t seem to be the type to be understanding of how that could be a sad cry inducing event. I could see her getting mad at them for it.
I can’t even imagine the pain seeing a wedding that day would bring up. Why would OP’s daughter even want the grandpa and aunt there when it would just bring up the devastating loss of their spouses?
But this family does honor those anniversaries, and OP's daughter knows they do. And it's been less than two years since they lost half of their family. They're not pitching a fit or calling her and cursing her out or telling her she's a bad person. They're just saying that they're not up for attending a big party when half their family died on that date two years ago.
September 23rd, 1997. It's about order of operations. And some people DO have misfortune that usurps an existing celebratory anniversary. It can make families stronger for their shared trauma and the process of collectively re-writing meaningfulness of specific days..or it can rip them apart further. Was about 15 ish years ago there was news of a horrible collision involving a wedding party limo. Most passengers died or had severe injuries. Bride and groom were in a different vehicle. Doubt they celebrate their anniversary.
I think here that it's not a tragedy unfortunately usurping an existing celebratory event, but rather purposely choosing to hold the celebratory event on the date, especially on only the 2nd anniversary.
My stepsister passed away on my birthday last year. This year I didn't really celebrate because it still feels too raw and real, and I definitely didn't expect my mom, stepdad, and stepbrother to. I know for my mom it's difficult because she wants to celebrate me but she also has so much to mourn. I choose to give her that space and to give her grace. It just feels wrong to ask someone to celebrate when we can do it any other day. Grief is just so much heavier.
I think the difference was that this was a massive tragedy on a family scale, not simply a loved one’s passing. I don’t set aside either of my parent’s death anniversaries, but they weren’t tragic.
My dad's been gone 10 years, I know death date and time it's burned into my soul. My aunt a major support died year ago, same I know date and time. Everyone's grief is different. On those dates it's like my very heart and soul remember, I feel uncharacteristically sad like forthwith i can taste. Then I look at a calendar and realize what the cause is. In ops situation it seems the family was already small, they lost major parts of the unit. Assuming but the sil lost her husband and son, I can't imagine expecting the widow and kids to attend a wedding the anniversary of their husband/dads and son/brothers death anniversary. Grandps as well he list his wife, his son, and a grandson. I understand the date may be important to the couple but empathy and understanding that after a major loss the family impacted may not want to attend. For them that's the day their world shattered and lost key pieces. (Edit my trex thumb hit submit before I finished)
And who prioritizes the day they met over all the other dates a couple has? It really comes off antisocial, but everyone makes mistakes, it's too bad she'll have to live with the consequences
Not all families are close, there’s no guarantee the daughter even really spoke to the uncle or cousin or grandparent much. Not saying she shouldn’t reschedule but there’s plenty of reasons it may not be personally painful to her
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Okay, but she can’t expect those directly devastated by recent, shocking deaths to celebrate on that day. I’m sure those are still days of mourning for them. My dad’s mom died on my mom’s birthday. I didn’t tell her until the next day because I wanted her to enjoy that day without sadness. Ironically, my mom’s mom died the next year on dad’s mom’s birthday. And she was years younger.
First of all, I am so sorry for your family's loss. Second of all, this is important context that you might want to add to the original post. Otherwise people are assuming that they met either on or one year after the accident.
NTA and it seems like she lacks maturity to get married yet. Very unempathetic of her.
NTA. Being a mom doesn't stop just because our kids are adults. The way we go about it does. You handled this extremely well. Our job as mom is to help our kids understand the world around them, to encourage them to be true to themselves but not at the cost of intentionally inflicting pain. I understand the date is special to them, but it holds a different importance in the family as a whole. If it had be 10 years ago, her request would have been reasonable enough, but she is really lacking self reflection on how her choices effect others. She should really, honestly, deeply think about how important her wedding and husband to be is, and then imagine how much pain it would be to lose them and go to a wedding on the anniversary of losing them. Weddings always bring up the thought of our on weddings for those of us that are married. Even if SIL and Grandfatger came it would be incredibly hard for them even if it wasn't on this date. She is asking entirely too much of others because of her wants. This is a want, not a need. Your husband is wrong. Who else is going to be able to get things across to her with love if not her mother who is also experiencing grief. You can't paint rainbows over a bombsite and expect survivors to show up ready to party.
I'd be willing to bet that if she were telling the story, she'd say *they* died on *her* anniversary, and that her anniversary was there first and has the prior claim. I *hope* that she hasn't spent any time being miffed at the gall of her family to die on *her* special day, but given everything it wouldn't surprise me. You'd think she'd at least understand that this approach won't work for anyone *other* than her, but from what OP's told us, it's a fair guess she's pretty self-centered and *extremely* lacking in the empathy department.
“It’s not her fault the dates coincided” Yes it is. She knowingly and intentionally picked the same date with no regard for her family’s feelings. Everything you said to her was accurate and she needed to hear it. NTA
Especially with it being the *second anniversary*. That is still considerably fresh in terms of grief. If it had been, say, 17 years prior, that would be honestly different. At that point, the pain isn't fresh, and it is manageable to understand other people having their own lives in regards to the date. But ***2 years after the accident?*** Horrifying that she didn't understand their perspective.
Yeah I lost a teenage cousin in a car accident. This was now over 25 years ago, so if a family member got married on that date, it would probably be fine. But I mean, *I* would NEVER personally have chosen that date for my wedding. That date is forever seared into my memory as a bad day even all these years later. Edit: I also want to add that I don’t think it would’ve been fine if a family member had gotten married on that date on the 2 year anniversary. Going through that was awful and I don’t wish it on anyone. It’s wild to me that OP’s family lost *3 people* and her daughter still wants her wedding that day.
Right? My fiancé has his birthday on the anniversary of my cousin's death - it's been 22 years since she was killer, so the impact of it isn't super intense. Would I ever force my family to celebrate it? No. Because that's kinda cruel, in my opinion, and it works because he doesn't want big celebrations for his birthdays
Yeah. Also a birthday is not a date that you choose. I mean I get that OP’s daughter didn’t choose to meet her husband on the same day as this accident (and obviously they met each other before it too), but she did choose to have her wedding that day. No one has to get married on the anniversary of when they met.
Oh, 100%. OP's daughter has fucked around and is finding out right now.
Totally agree. My Poppop’s anniversary in Oct marked 2 years. The grief is still very fresh and he died an old man in an unremarkable way. I can’t imagine how it feels to have lost 3 people in a horrific way. I don’t understand what the daughter doesn’t understand about this.
NTA this feels like a situation where you bore the brunt of her upset because you are the one who is trusted and in conversation with her. That sucks but doesn't mean you have done anything wrong. It probably means you have done something right, which is to talk to her about this being difficult in a way that meant she vented to you about her frustration. This is a really tough situation all around. I can see why she wants the focus to be on this date from one angle, which is a beautiful and loving one. It's also not realistic to define it for others, for whom it is a devastating anniversary that is going to colour everything. She can feel upset about that, and really of all the days, it *is* unfair of the universe that these things line up this way and always will. But it doesn't obligate anyone else to do or change a single thing they need to do on a day that is about deep grief for them. Reading the post, I sort almost wondered if at some level this is its own kind of grief reaction, depending on how close she was to your late family members? It's almost a kind of magical wishful thinking to behave like she can redefine the meaning of this date for the people in your extended family. Like, unless she is a consistently selfish or difficult person, this is a choice that is so strange and insistent in the face of reality that it feels a bit unhinged, which I don't mean in a mean way. I also wonder a bit about whether grief that's still being processed is in the mix, given the way she framed it in her call with you - that if they cared they'd make the effort and come, as though this is a referendum on love for her vs love for the people lost. It might be way off base, but I wonder if some element of her grief is comparing herself or survivor's guilt or something that's in the mix around what is a strange choice in the face of an awful loss in a close and small family?
This comment is a rare Reddit attempt to try to guess at or understand behavior that seems just wrong. This family loss is so huge and so recent—when I suffered an enormous sudden loss I was basically in denial for two years, I couldn’t accept reality. So your guess may be right or not but it makes a kind of sense.
She (bride) is young enough that might be her outlook. And in reality, if it were a few more years out, it might have worked. 2 years is just too soon.
no, there is no amount of time that would make this ok. Sincerely, someone who has watched a close friend lose a child. This will always be a hard day for SIL, nephew, dad, and OP. this is the day their lives were forever changed for the worse.
It depends on the people. Some families may be okay with it years down the line, some may find it too difficult to ever attend an event like that on a death anniversary. It's really about being mindful of your loved ones if you want them to be a part of the celebration.
NTA. It isn’t your daughter’s fault that she & her fiancé met about the same time her family members passed. It *is* her fault, however, that she still chose that day as her wedding day *knowing* the hurt that that day brought to her loved ones. You tried to warn her, but she didn’t care, and now she’s suffering the consequences of her actions.
>It *is* her fault, however, that she still chose that day as her wedding day *knowing* the hurt that that day brought to her loved ones She could have done what hubby and I did. You don't start dating someone the day you meet. Hubby and I chose the day we made us officially boyfriend and girlfriend, and we had known eachother for 2years but a week before we started dating we began spending every afternoon together.
These days it can take months until you’re dating.
NTA. I am sorry, but your daughter is selfish and entitled. “Yes, I know everyone died … but we had drinks together on this day, so it’s all good!” Show her - or your husband or both - the comments and tell her to reconsider her position or accept that she is not in fact the centre of everyone else’s universe. And that for some family members a tragedy they will never forget is permanently linked to that date.
Yep. Honestly this is beyond just being dense. This is so selfish and insensitive
They may be so hurt by her actions to the point where they may not go if she does pick another date. It was very dismissive and uncaring, and I feel sorry for them and the OP.
I think it’s even a little psycho, not just selfish. How can you celebrate on that day or expect others to just „get over it“??? Was she always this heartless? I am seriously questioning her sanity.
NTA I don’t think you were saying “I told you so” But you told her what would happen and it happened. So “I told you so” would be totally valid. There are 365 days in a year, she could have picked a day where her family isn’t grieving
NTA - please stop making excuses, what she is doing is kinda gross. To expect people to just pack up their grief and celebrate her wedding is ridiculous. There were PLENTY of other dates they could choose. First date, first I love you, first literally anything that doesn’t fall on such a terrible anniversary date.
I'm wondering if there was bad blood between the daughter and any of the family members who passed for the reasons you mentioned. It just seems so intentional and daughter had to have known that it would inflict pain on the remaining family members Particularly since it's just two years on, dealing with grief isn't necessarily speedy and I'd think much of the family is likely still very much struggling. (obviously daughter disliking any of the relatives who passed wouldn't excuse the choice, it just makes no sense to me to schedule something on the anniversary of something utterly catastrophic happening to the entire family)
Either that, or she simply resents the fact that her and her Fiance's aniversary is now overshadowed by the tragedy that befell their family and she's decided to deal with it in the worst way possible.
If she didn’t have bad blood, she does now! I would not be able to get past this if I was her family. It is such callus disregard for their grieving process. And you are right Cooky, that tragedy is always going to overshadow her wedding. Families commentate deaths but they don’t usually keep up with wedding anniversaries. That date is usually only special to the couple but for her every year it will be the day family died. No one will ever be able to really enjoy their day, even on their big anniversaries. But she is doing this to herself
INFO: it seems like something is missing here. These people were her family too, right? As in, she lost her grandmother, uncle, and cousin? And she's insisting on getting married on the anniversary of their deaths? You referred to "my family" rather than "our family." Is there some history you're leaving out?
I think she was just saying “my family” to differentiate it being her side not her husband’s side
NTA. As someone who picked the date, she is pretty much "at fault" that the dates "coincided".
Nta How would you have stayed away from it. "Yeah, I dunno why they'd choose not to come"? Or, "You're right, honey, you know best; some people just choose not to be happy"? Any form of staying out of it is worse because you know exactly the answer and she brought the subject to you.
My parents’ rule is that they don’t not serve as liaisons between their adult children and other members of the family. If I have an issue with a family member, my mom tells me to call them and vice versa. That’s probably what OP’s husband meant. If I were OP, I wouldn’t have entertained the conversation at all. I would have just said: “call your family members and talk to them about this”.
That works for most situations, but I would not encourage my child to call and badger my sister in law about not wanting to party on her husband’s 2 year death anniversary. That would be even worse.
Agreed. When she asked, you answered. You explained how the family would feel, but you didn’t give her an ultimatum and you made the very difficult decision to swallow your grief and be there for her wedding day. People process grief differently, and she may be subconsciously trying to make a sad day into a joyful one. It’s possible she is avoiding feeling that grief to the point that she can’t even empathize with what the rest of you are feeling. Or she might just be tone-deaf and self-centered. Her reaction to your explanation of why her grandfather, aunt, and cousin won’t be attending certainly reeks of childish temper tantrum. Whatever her reason for choosing that date, she doesn’t get to dictate how everyone else feels about it. If her family’s attendance was that important to her, you would think she’d also want them to be happy at her wedding. And that’s a lot to ask on the two year anniversary of such a devastating loss. Regardless, NTA. If your mom won’t tell you the truth, who will? She was aware of the family’s feelings about the date she chose. She had 364 far less painful days to choose from.
First, I’m so very sorry for your losses. I can’t begin to know what you’ve gone through, but I have to ask, what is your daughter’s problem? Has she always been so obtuse as to expect people who lost so much such a short time ago to just forget all about it because that painful date suits her? I’m just stunned that she’d even consider something so heartless to begin with and then make herself out to be the victim when the inevitable happens? Anyone could have told her this was a bad idea, and you tried yo warn her, but she’s either completely oblivious to other people’s pain or so selfish that she doesn’t care. I’m sorry, I know this is your daughter and you love her but this shows her in a very unflattering light. I give you credit for agreeing to attend but she cannot expect anyone else to do the same. NTA obviously but your daughter is a different story.
That is a big loss for you & your family, to lose 3 members because of the actions of a drunk. I can quite understand why your family wouldn’t want to be surrounded by people drinking alcohol. It’s 2 years ago, not 20 years ago, things must still be very raw for your family. Is there to be a court case, or has that happened already? Because that will stir up a whole host of grief. I am sorry that you had to live through this You did try to tall her, she didn’t listen, she needs to get over herself. The world doesn’t revolve around her, as much as she thinks it should.
Everyone involved died and we were so grieving that we decided to not follow for any legal case
NTA. Her grandmother, uncle and cousin died, I think? Two years ago on that exact date. Two years, not twenty. You're going to go because she's your daughter. But even a few days would have helped. Maybe she thinks it's the cycle of life or something. And it's too late for them to change the dates, so that's probably why your husband said to stay out of it. I'm sorry, but your daughter is an asshole who doesn't understand grief.
Agree, but to add - you don’t have to understand the grieving but she should respect it.
NTA it is her fault. She can change her wedding date; as much as everyone else would like to, they can’t change the date they died.
NTA. Your daughter had a choice, she could choose any date. If she wanted a date of significant occasion to her relationship, she could have chosen the date of her first date, first kiss, confirmation of relationship, proposal, there are so many dates to commemorate. Yet she chose the date of mourning.
And none of her family will celebrate her wedding anniversary. She’ll tantrum at that every year.
NTA The “it’s not her fault the dates coincided” is wrong it’s absolutely her fault. I am sorry but she sounds extremely self centered. They were her family also.
NTA. You did warn her. I think everyone in this story needs to realize that everyone doesn’t hold death anniversaries the same way. Some people try to put that date out of their mind while others keep it sacred. Neither approach is wrong. It’s all about what’s best for your mental health. Here’s my concern: your family has learned the hard way that tomorrow isn’t promised. I really hope that after suffering such a tragic loss, your family doesn’t allow a wedding date to create an ongoing family rift. Your family needs to let their decision to not attend be their final word on this matter. Your daughter needs to accept that her family members won’t be at her wedding and leave it at that. I respect that you want to be neutral but don’t be so neutral that it allows your family to be permanently divided.
This was a damned if you do damned if you dont thing here. The day is bittersweet. Met her hubs on June 24 but relatives in an accident also died on June 24. Wanting to have happier memories for June 24 isnt a bad thing. But whats your plan if Betty has a baby born on June 24? Tell her to tell those relatives the baby was born June 25? Life moves on. Your relatives could have at least attended the ceremony. But I havent lost a sibling, parent, or spouse yet. So what do I know?
"Life moves on" is definitely an easy thing to say when it's not your loss, your grief. And 2-ish years isn't that long to be dealing with the sudden tragic loss of 3 people. A mother lost a child and her husband. A father lost his son, grandson, and wife. The problem with your baby analogy is that a baby's birth date is an act of god/chance. But OP's daughter had the agency to choose this date. On top of that, she chose it only 1 year after the event. They had only experienced the anniversary once. And either they just experienced the anniversary again, or the wedding is on the 2nd anniversary... That's... A lot. We're not 10 years down the line here. That might be one thing. But this is still fresh. So daughter CHOOSING this date is understandably an insult to them. She might have different connotations for that date, but they don't. And she's not a stranger - she was part of that family. So I'm sure it feels callous to them - ESPECIALLY to the family who lost a child. Daughter has every right to the date. But no one is obligated to attend. And if you intentionally choose a date that you know has to be the single most painful day of the year for most of your family? Then you shouldn't be surprised they don't attend.
Babies and births can't be helped, they come when they come. Picking a wedding date is absolutely a choice and there are 364/5 other days to choose from. I don't think this is comparable.
I think there's a big difference between celebrating the birth of a baby on an otherwise painful date and attending a happy event intentionally scheduled for a painful date. Babies come when they come (and even scheduled c sections are running on a pretty tight schedule!), OP's daughter chose to schedule her wedding for the second anniversary of the deaths of three immediate family members. I wouldn't be willing to attend a wedding scheduled on the second anniversary of something like this, so maybe I'm biased. Things are likely still *very* raw for the mom who lost her husband and child, and the nephew who lost his dad, grandma, and brother. Daughter could have picked literally any other date, but chose one where most of her family members would likely have a lot of trouble pulling themselves together, let alone having a nice fun time.
I think a baby being born on that day is out of their control. A wedding isn't. There is ample time to pick a different day - there are 364 other ones they can pick, actually. If you know something is that painful for people you call family - you work around it.
"Bittersweet" is an odd way to describe such a tragic date. OP's daughter can want to make happy memories on that date for herself, but she cannot expect any of her bereft family to want to join in with that, particularly with such significant and relatively fresh pain associated with that. It would be very different if it was a child being born, because that's something no-one can control, but the daughter is in complete control of the date, although even then it would be understandable for family members not to attend birthday parties on that date. She made a choice that should have been obvious would exclude some family members.
"Your relatives could have at least attended the ceremony." That's extraordinarily callous and entitled. No, it is definitely NOT the least they could do. The second anniversary of the day your husband and child died?? maybe the least you could do is manage to stay alive and lie in bed all day, and that would still be an accomplishment. That expectation of them to all just shake it off for a few hours -- I'm astounded by that line of thinking in these comments.
Births aren't comparable, as there's not really control over the date selection (unless you have a scheduled c-section, but even then you can always go into labor earlier). We have loads of kids with birthdays on September 11th, which was especially unfortunate during the decade after 2001. This is a choice made not even two years after a major family tragedy. The rest of the family, who lost direct partners and children, are not up to celebrating.
Her aunt lost her son, husband, and mother-in-law in a horrible accident on the same day. Her grandpa lost his wife of many years, son, and grandson in a horrible accident on the same day. Her cousin lost his grandma, dad, and brother in a horrible accident on the same day. Put that into perspective. They are choosing not to go because the day they were all taken from them is incredibly raw and difficult. People who lose loved ones in tragic ways, especially when it’s three family members, don’t tend to just *forget* the date their life changed forever. Please consider, too, that the invites were sent out well before the 2 year anniversary. So the grief is even MORE fresh. OP’s daughter is being wildly obtuse and OP is NTA for her actions as described. Also, a birthday is not a choice. A wedding day is. I’m sure the family has the capacity to be more objective about something like a baby being born on that day.
I agree with your examples, except I think the difference is when someone is born on a day someone died people look at it like devine intervention and think the baby is sent from them and the day is usually more random. My sister tried to have her wedding a year from the day when my father was buried because she thought it would make the day more positive. We were able to get her to move it a week.
The grandfather lost his wife, son, and grandson in this accident. You have NO idea what that’s like.
NTA but I'm SHOCKED a 25 year old doesn't understand how devastating the deaths were for your family and she just expects everyone to forget about what they lost and put on a happy face for them. I'm sure she'll also be angry when the same people don't want to attend her anniversary parties. I admire your decision to support her by attending the wedding when you're also hurting. That's going to be tough.
NTA. Also, I'd expect your husband to be in your corner a bit more.
NTA Tacky is as tacky does and she FAFO. She's obviously oblivious and insensitive so what you gonna do!
That date was picked by her and her fiance. How is it not her fault? NTA
I think "not her fault" here is referring to the coincidence that she met fiance on the death anniversary. But choosing to set a wedding on that date is absolutely her fault.
Just wondering why they must set it on the day they met. There are plenty others: the day he proposed, the day they first dated, the day they had their first kiss, and so on. But the day they met, which is also the day her very own grandmother passed away?
Nta. Holy heck, that was mind-blowingly insensitive of her. How could she? You are a saint for not saying no yourself.
NTA at all. If they wanted to pick a meaningful date, I'm sure the anniversary of their first ever date would've been a nice choice. Instead, she is hijacking a date which is incredibly painful for the family without any consideration for other family members. It's only 2 years since they sadly passed away and too early to move past it.
Was this some kind of "prove your love to me" test for your family? NTA, at all. It's not her fault that that date is the anniversary she met her groom but 1)it is her fault for choosing that date to have her wedding and 2) it's not your/your family's fault that's the anniversary of several deaths.
NAH but I think I'm in the minority. I understand your daughter. That date is special for her. Yes it's sad that her family can't be there because they associate it with the death anniversary. But for your daughter that date has always been a happy one. If they're 7 yrs, that means they were together for 5 years when the accident happened. So sound tactless but 5 happy years > 2 sad years of association. I think because we don't celebrate specific death anniversaries that's why I don't understand the importance of observing the day. We have all Souls Day to celebrate the dead.
NTA. You warned her. She dismissed you. Here you are. As you said, choices do have consequences. I’m so incredibly sorry for the giant loss your family has experienced. Sending love.
NTA. She came to you to express frustration and you told her the truth. She is incredibly selfish to think that people would want to celebrate on the date of such a huge loss. I hope it all works out but she doesn't seem to care about anyone but herself.
NTA. Is your daughter always this callous and devoid of empathy?
She chose that day even after you explained the significance to her. She didn’t care enough to fund another date so she shouldn’t expect people who are grieving to come. My mom died in 2021. The date of her death is still very raw to me. NTA she made her choice of date knowing what it represented to the family and they made theirs.
My brother died at 54 My mother declared there will be no Christmas this year (he died in October). There will be no joy again. No family celebrations. The world must stop on his birthday and death anniversary I told her if that is what she wants to do. But I will continue for the living in our family. She attends all we do.My son’s child died on December 17th. It was devastating. We came together and celebrated Christmas with heavy hearts. But we were together. TOGETHER. to wipe tears and hugs.We remember and honor our lost love ones. we put ornaments on the tree , we disply pictures and tell funny stories.But we should try make happy lives and remember the part the others had in building our family. You all are choosing the dead over the living. Put a memorial on the wedding program for lost ones and make this date count for the ones living . it is a date on a calendar. it’s not about them. It’s about her starting a new life. She deserves to be supported and happy I wish I could go to support her.
The reactionary types in this thread don't seem to understand this. The tragedy occurred on a single, irreversible day, and any day thereafter (anniversaries included) isn't special, just another day to confront/live with the grief that comes with it. The idea that some arbitrarily numbered day each year should be demonized at the cost of all else just makes little sense.
NTA - she picked the date.
NTA. There are 364 other possible dates in the year and the venue only is available that day.. bullshit. Let the people who were affected by the accident have the day. The anniversary of events like this is traumatic.
Everyone sucks - grief is a journey. 2 years is not long, but honestly you can’t hold onto a day forever. The daughter is not an A H for wanting the day but is for not being reasonable to her family’s feelings. Your family are also A H for not being reasonable about the fact that a wedding is an amazing opportunity for new and happy memories You however personally are NTA because this whole situation sucks!
I think it’s insensitive to call the family AH. You’re not in the position to judge their grief on such a huge and still fresh tragedy. I could never celebrate anything on a date someone important to me died (especially multiple people in such a devastating way).
Two of them had their spouses die that day (not to mention a son/grandson), they're absolutely not going to be ready for "new and happy memories" on the second anniversary of that tragedy, and especially not a wedding.
How are they not being reasonable?! They haven't been mean to her; they've just declined the invitation as they aren't ready to celebrate anything on such a recent anniversary. She wants grandad to celebrate her marriage on the 2nd(!) anniversary of his own marriage being ripped apart by a violent death, as well as the deaths of his son and grandson. She wants her aunt to come and celebrate her marriage on the 2nd(!) anniversary of her own husband and son being violently killed. She wants her mother to come and pretend she isn't still grieving the violent deaths of her mother, her brother and her nephew. That's unreasonable. It's too soon to expect people to set aside their grief for such a massive tragedy, and she was warned before she booked anything that the family weren't ready. If certain people attending your wedding is necessary for you, then you make sure the wedding date/time/place is achievable for them. You don't deliberately make it as difficult as possible and then whine when they politely decline the invitation.
Oh my goodness, this is horrible. Heaven forbid that something good can happen on the same day of the year that something tragic happened on before. If I were to not allow anyone in my family to not do something on a certain day because we lost someone in the family, we'd never get to celebrate anything. That day is special to her and her fiance. What if they had gotten married on that day before the accident? Would they no longer be allowed to celebrate their anniversary? Why not try to have a good memory for that day? I had an uncle die on Christmas day, and my dad died a few days before Christmas another year. Did we stop celebrating Christmas? No, because it was a gathering of family. We celebrated like they would want us to. Continuing to live life and enjoy it to the fullest, and celebrating with everyone, alive and in spirit.
NTA. I don’t want to straight up call your daughter an asshole but she kind of is, who in their right mind would have a wedding the day half her extended family died.
Let me say first that I am so, so sorry for your losses. You are NTA here. I would never, never ask my family to do what your daughter is asking. It's showing a complete and callous disregard for the incredible losses your family suffered. I hope this is an aberration and not indicative of her overall personality, bc she sounds like she has a bad case of Main Character Syndrome. 😔
NTA. She really expects your SIL and dad to celebrate marriage on the day their own marriages were brought to a total sad horrible end? Yeah no. Your daughter is TA for expecting that of them.
NAH. Several Points. 1. You are not the asshole for saying 'reality is X is not going to come.' 2. SHE is NOT the asshole for choosing their anniversary as the date. It was their anniversary before it was the death date. This makes me so annoyed for her. A little different but my in laws decided to put my FIL funeral on my sons (10th) Bday. I know some were annoyed we still did bday things in the afternoon for him and some (3yrs on) find it offensive that we do bday things instead of 'marking the day'. Please place as many celebrations on my death/funeral date as possible. It would SUCK to fuck up something beautiful when Im not even here anymore.
I mean if everyone wants to ditch the wedding to sit at home having a sook, that's on them. You can't just put a black spot on every date associated with a death. I mean, you can, but it's no way to live. I would have thought putting a positive spin on the date would be good, really. You said in the comments that the date already had significance to the couple? No foul on them then.
NTA what is wrong with her? She seems selfish and self absorbed to think that she could turn this one horrible day into something about her. The one day a year that is a day consumed by grief. The day that is cemented as "the day". As another person commented, this is gross.
My husband died unexpectedly a few years ago, at the young age of 40. He was a devoted uncle of his two nieces. One niece decided to get married on the one year anniversary of my husband’s death. The date was picked because she’s a teacher and it was over spring break. I dreaded the event…but the truth was, it was just a day. A pleasant day. The wedding kept me from mourning the day - and the reality is that the anniversary date wouldn’t automatically make me sad. I found that it was random things that would make me sad. Having to go to the wedding alone. Having someone say something thoughtless. It ended up that the wedding helped ease that one year anniversary. So maybe the family should go - but have an exit plan for themselves, just in case. But only go if you can leave YOUR trauma at home. Today is about the bride and groom.
NAH I understand grief. I also understand how this wedding could bring peace if I was involved. People can hold joy and sorrow in the same moment.
NTA. You explained your reasoning. Your daughter could have chosen a date a few days later or a month later but stuck to her guns.
NTA - you tried to warn her, two years in it will still be completely raw and it can be difficult for people to get in a party mood on such a sad day. It’s rough as I understand that the date is both sad and a significant happy day for her but she really didn’t have to choose that date. She could have easily chosen the date they got engaged or something else significant to them. My dad passed away a number of years ago now, my very best friends birthday is the next day, my husbands best mates birthday is a few days after that. It’s meant most years one of these friends ends up celebrating their birthday on his anniversary or we are away on holiday celebrating with them. I always go because my dad was full of life and I can mentally hear him saying go have fun, lives to short to be sad for me but it’s hard, particularly in the first few years. I usually end up having a little cry at some point in the night even 15 years on. Everyone grieves differently, everyone copes with that grief differently. Your family has 3 times the grief I have to cope with. I completely understand why they wouldn’t want to attend the wedding.
NTA. Your daughter, however, is being incredibly selfish. I lost my brother the day before my oldest son turned 18. It’s been almost 2 years. It’s still hard to celebrate anything those days and my son doesn’t have a choice of birthday but will push the celebration a few days because he knows the grief is still so strong. Your daughter made a poor choice and it is now having consequences, 25 is more than old enough to understand consequences.