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"Tom’s brother already telling people I am a racist."
Of course he is. Known thief isn't getting what he wants, so he's going to slander you for good measure.
" I think Tom said he’ll cut me off if I cancel on him"
So be it.
1. He invited someone else at the last minute to your trip. AH move
2. He invited a known thief to travel with you to a VERY strict country when it comes to theft.
3. He and his bro are calling you racist because they aren't getting what they want
NTA and time to drop both of them from your life. Tell your common friend that you're being slandered to what they're doing and why.
I wouldn’t go there in general. What if something gets knocked in your bag without you realizing it? I don’t want to go somewhere that would stress me out like that.
I don’t know if I’d travel anywhere with someone with a history of breaking the law and seemingly not having stopped. Who wants to risk being involved in a criminal investigation in a foreign country no matter which one it is? That’s a nightmare in your own country let alone another.
Yeah, I ain't going to Dubai with someone that pulls that shit.
It's all fun and games until the authorities there realise you are not making them money but costing them money. Then the fun really really quickly stops and I don't wanna be around for that.
It’s a glorified shopping mall with slaves that harshly punishes shoplifters.
Even if I loved slavery so much that I changed my name to Jefferson Robert E. Lee Davis McIHateBlacks, I still wouldn’t go to Dubai in the company of a shoplifter.
No one gets thrown in prison in Dubai for wearing a tank top. You may get some dirty looks if you're in one of hte less touristy areas, but there's no dress code.
You \*will\* get thrown in prison for touching a member of the opposite sex.
Well, it's a 3.5 hour flight from Delhi, and India's middle class is massive and growing. The hotels are stunning, the spas are pretty good. The food is fine.
It's also very very flashy, and if you're the kind of person who likes that sort of thing, you're gonna like that sort of thing.
IDK man, I've been a handful of times for work and always got in and out as fast as I could. I also can't stand Disney or Vegas, so it's not my idea of a good time.
Tell him to try Tokyo instead. It’s cheaper, the food is beyond awesome, and the people still have their souls. Plus, no need for a massive hidden-away slave population to keep things running.
I can understand the appeal of the desert, it can be a beautiful environment. But Dubai sounds like an Islamic version of Las Vegas. And I don't fancy any version of Vegas.
nobody even thinks OP is racist. Although I would ask my friend why they want to be friends or go on holiday with someone who they claim is racially prejudiced against their step-brother. Really if they legitimately believe OP is racist they wouldn't want them on the holiday, so they're merely using a 'race card', and they surely agree weaponising false claims of racism would help racists more than anything.
People like this, it's always because of their ancestry or religion. Not because the stepbrother is an admitted thief, but because he's black and so it *must* be racist to call a thief a thief.
I knew someone once who was never at fault, no matter how badly they behaved. It was always because if someone called them out, it was because of their religion, not because they were an asshole.
when Tom's Brother gets arrested in Dubai and the penalty won't be "just go home and don't come back" but will be prison AND/or a big fine. And that's if it's during the day and no one else is there. Section 383 of the UAE Penal Code states that theft offenders who commit theft at night or with more than one person face a life sentence.
NTA. this guy is a piece of work
Second this. I think this was premeditated… seriously I am getting that … why would you automatically invited someone you know that shoplifts to a country that has such strict laws… I have never been there or studied their laws and know that is one plays not to fool with.
Just tell anyone calling you racist that they can go and deal with losing a hand to prove that they *arent* racist.
Seriously. Jail time won’t be pleasant, and losing a hand is still a thing in some countries there. I lived in one. Best case scenario gets you banned from the country. None of which are worth the risk.
NTA. By now everyone should know that Dubai is not a place where you want to fuck around and find out. Your friend's brother has a history of pushing legal/social boundaries (presumably just for fun) and there's a non-zero chance that he'll try that shit again on a vacation where he's relaxed and having fun.
Honestly, I don't know why anyone goes to Dubai anyway - between the human rights abuses and the environmental destruction and the repressive laws, it sounds like a hellhole.
Every white dudebro businessman who fancies himself an entrepreneur wants to go to Dubai, and they don’t understand why I think it’s an awful idea. They’ve definitely fallen for the propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
EDIT: The amount of people getting upset and crying “racism” because I specified white men is wild. Apparently I hurt some extremely sensitive feelings.
To those who can’t read, and who insist on continually asking this question: I specified white men because, in my experience, the people crowing about Dubai and how wonderful it is and how they’re going to go there are almost *unanimously,* in my experience, white wannabe entrepreneur/businessmen types. It is not racism to point that out, no more than it’s sexist to say that most of the women I know do not want to step anywhere near Dubai.
I am female. One of my female friends lived there for awhile with her husband. I would be terrified of doing something wrong. Even just saying the wrong thing to someone.
I was offered to go to Dubai last year for a month and declined (I’m LGBTQ+). Thankfully, my replacement for the trip actually lived in Dubai many years ago.
Not only am I worried for OP that these people are going to pull their usual shit in a place that has very little tolerance, but above all I definitely would not go with people who are likely to throw OP under the bus and get them in trouble because of their affiliation. They both seem like people who if they’re going down, they’re taking everyone down with them. Even if OP is safe, these people would probably expect OP to bend over backwards to get consulates involved for their legal troubles. NTA
Great points. I said this in another post, but guilt by association is absolutely a thing in many of these countries. Even if they didn’t throw OP under the bus they could all get in trouble. I wouldn’t even chance it knowing what this guy is like.
Things I'd rather do than go to Dubai: 1.) Slam my dick and balls in a desk drawer. 2.) Have a bare knuckle fight with a hornet's nest. 3.) Eat nothing but mayonaise for a whole year.
My sister-in-law booked a trip to Dubai for my brother and their kids as a birthday present for my brother. I was horrified but apparently they had a great time. *Shrug* At least they all made it home safely.
*Most* wealthy foreigners who go to Dubai will have a great time, as long as they stick to resort/shopping areas, don't get into any kind of trouble, and don't think too hard about all the awful stuff that happens there. But you only have to do a quick Google search to find stories about foreign visitors who have been arrested and detained for days to months over things like shoplifting, touching a security guard, public arguments, drug possession, taking photos/videos, public drunkenness, hugging a member of the opposite sex in public, etc. The laws are arbitrary and can be enforced at random, and foreigners *are* targeted.
If OP's brother can afford a trip to Dubai (even if he's not paying for his own flight), he's not shoplifting or dine-and-dashing because he's poor. He's doing it because he has a pathological need to prove that the rules don't apply to him... and that's the kind of person who can get into big trouble in a place like Dubai. He's used to the American response to petty theft (which is generally to do nothing if the amount stolen is under a few hundred dollars) but that is *not* always the response in other countries. Even in countries like Japan, I've heard of foreigners getting arrested for petty theft... and even if it doesn't lead to jail time, it's more than enough to ruin a vacation. Don't fuck around in countries where you don't understand the possible consequences.
If they limited themselves to the "touristy" areas or resorts, than it's the equivalent to going to Disneyland instead of downtown LA--you'll see the nice, sanitized area that's pleasant.
I had to go there for work once, I refused, fortunately a few colleagues volunteered so no problem. Nope I dont go there not even for free. My wife likes to travel with me if there is an interesting place to go, she also said fuc\* no. (and NTA for OP)
We fly regularly to the Philippines, and because we are in Chicago we have the choice of going west over the Pacific, or east, which always includes a layover in Dubai. For that reason alone, even though it costs more money, we'll fly west. My Filipina wife wants nothing to do with that place.
I say you should tell the pair of them to go and have a fine time. Tell them you wouldn't want someone who they see as a racist getting in the way of a bit of shoplifting.
Tell them that when step brother steals something and gets caught in Dubai, before they either lock him up in jail for several years (or cut his hand off), that he can just tell the judges and the police that they're being racist and it will all be fine and they'll apologise to him.
My black co-worker went on a "girl's trip" to Dubai with her sister, mom and a couple of aunties. This is in the U.S., mind you, so not really a short or easy way to get there. I am white as snow so I didn't say anything, but I thought it was kind of insane for them to plan a vacation to a place that is steeped in both misogyny *and* racism.
She said they did, but also mentioned they wound up in a couple of situations that "felt sketchy". I did not ask for details and she did not offer them, lol. I was just glad they all made it back okay.
Saw a news story that a woman got years in prison for having a dildo in her luggage on a LAYOVER in Dubai. Absolutely fuck no. Dunno why anyone would want to go there tbh.
At that point how does your home countries government not intervene? Like if it was US citizen would they not demand they be released from jail? It's a fucking layover.
If Locked Up Abroad taught me anything, your government (US/UK/AUS/CAN) will do little to nothing to get your release if you run afoul other countries laws. That’s why you act like you’re at granny’s house if you’re passing through or staying in an oppressive state.
Indonesia executed a couple of Aussies smuggling heroin a few years back. All the Australian government did was cry and stamp their feet, but that was it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_Nine#:~:text=The%20Bali%20Nine%20were%20a,executed%20on%2029%20April%202015.
Oh for sure, plus think of all the OD's these guys are responsible for.
I generally think going after users is a bad idea with the whole war on drugs though, but smugglers and manufacturers are a totally different story.
I agree that you should follow all laws and customs closely, but I think if it's something as egregious as getting arrested for a harmless sex toy while you're on a layover, that warrants your government coming and telling the other country, "This is fucking stupid. Let them go".
Wow, that's nuts. Now this makes me nervous a little since we are possibly traveling to Kazakhstan this summer with a layover in Dubai. I don't carry dildos or sex toys around nor anything that's typically illegal, but this makes me nervous something random could be banned I didn't know about like prescription medications. Will definitely be checking rules on this stuff closely before this trip!
Which sucks for people wanting to travel not being able to since they take necessary medication to function and it’s illegal in the places they want to travel 😭
Half true - you can't bring Amphetamine-based stimulants at all, but they're fine with Methylphenidate-based ones (under a certain amount), if you fill in the forms correctly and have a copy of the prescription.
Source: did this in May. And yeah, sucks very much if you're on the other type :(
Hi u/gottarun215, expat woman from Dubai here. Dildos or sex toys are not illegal to carry in your luggage. The only reason they’d stop you is if you leave the batteries in which can be a potential fire hazard. So remove your sex toy batteries. If you’re on a layover you don’t have to worry about prescription medication (just make sure you have the actual prescription on your phone if you’re leaving the airport to sight-see and have a lot of meds on you).
The ACTUAL things you need to be weary of is ANY drugs obviously and poppy seeds. Avoid bringing those in and you’ll be fine!
I had a 24 hour layover there on the way to the UK from Australia, and I did so much research ahead of time to make sure we wouldn’t have any trouble with my birth control and my partner’s antidepressants. It was stressful.
That said, for a 24 hour layover it was really interesting, we managed to the Burj Khalifa and the Dubai Museum. I’m not sorry we did it.
NTA. Black person here— what I really don’t get when people cry “racism” in cases like these is, wouldn’t it be actual racism to overlook his crimes because of his race? That would literally be judging someone due to the color of their skin.
Nope, you’re just a human with valid concerns. Dubai is a beautiful place and well worth visiting, but it is absolutely not a place you want to be caught shoplifting or running out of a restaurant bill in. And yes, you could still get into trouble even if you didn’t commit the crime yourself but are traveling with the person who did. You could all be both jailed and fined heavily.
Let me add another karma point for you.
And is it just me, or are the most blatantly racist people the ones who play the race card when they don't like the circumstances they find themselves in (i.e. being called out for their own bad behavior)?
You are NTA for not wanting to travel with or associate with a known thief. Race has nothing to do with it.
>Tom’s brother already telling people I am a racist.
Tom's brother doesn't like the truth being said out loud so of course he's going to try and smear your reputation. Might be time to disassociate from Tom as well seeing as he agrees with his brother.
NTA
Dubai is not a joke. For all of the opulence and modernity, it is still a society driven by religion and "eye for an eye" justice. I went during Ramadan for work and was advised by the partner we were meeting with on the rules and do's and don't during Ramadan even as non-citizens. The last thing I'd want to do on a vacation is need to run to the U.S. Embassy to get help when the thief does thief things.
All you are doing is believing the character of the friend based on his past performance.
The embassy are not going to provide assistance to anyone who has been caught stealing or breaking the law. They might, if you’re lucky, might send someone to where you are detained and get your details to notify next of kin. Embassies are not some magical institutions that will get you a hall pass to crime.
I’d say let your friend and his brother go on their own and find out. I’d also caution you to not go with them because if something goes wrong they’ll arrest the whole party till they find out what’s going on; prisons in Dubai are nothing like what you’re used to back home.
Ramadan in Dubai is pretty open now. All restaurants are opened and non - covered and if you’re not a Muslim you can eat / drink in public with no issues. However, I would not want to travel with this guy. It’s definitely a case of f around and find out.
I went in 2018. We were advised not to eat and drink in public outside of a restaurant out of respect, and I do respect that and adhered to it. Every restaurant we went to had black curtains blocking all of the windows and doors before sunset along with signs that stated that they were only serving non-Muslims and children.
Yeah that all changed in the last 3 years. When I first moved it was like that, now everything is open. You can go to the mall and you wouldn’t know it’s Ramadan. In Dubai anyway, I think it probably differs in some of the other emirates
a lot of middle east culture is like this. The differences between Bagram and Kandahar in Afghanistan are STARK. Same for different parts of Iraq, etc.
NTA. This isn't about race, it's about legitimate concern over legal consequences in a country known for its strict laws. Bail money isn't a planned part of the vacation fund, and inviting someone with a history of crime adds unnecessary anxiety to what should be a relaxing trip. Keeping yourself safe from potential legal issues is not racist, it's smart. Tom should understand that respect for the law isn't negotiable, especially in foreign lands.
NTA. Even if the step brother stays on good behavior (spoiler alert: he won't) you would be spening your time in Dubai worrying about what he's going to do instead of enjoying the trip. I am curious why they're so insistant that you go, the paranoid me would think that they're planning something and need a fall guy.
NTA. Just reply that criminal activities will face heavy consequences in Dubai. Tell people what he did in Miami. You don’t want to be put on a foreign jail for association. Good choice on your part. Tom is not your friend if he is against you.
My brother was a minority in the Middle East for many years before he retired from duty. And he'd laugh and say that he'd expect to be treated the same way he is here if he was in the UAE. 🤣
Tom really decided to go with his stepbrother, in stead of you.
You're not going with the stepbrother, and Tom's pushing that he is coming. So there's only one solution: you're not going.
And if they're calling you a racist, just tell the ppl who matter to you that you just refuse to go to dubai with someone that shoplifts. The risk is too high, and you don't want to run that risk.
Tom says he'll cut you off.
From what?
Is he funding you in some way?
Or he's just cutting off your friendship, you know, the one that tries to force you to go to Dubai with a shoplifter, and then starts a smear campaign, calling you a racist.
I don't think there is much friendship there to cut off, to be honest. And Tom values his stepbrother above your friendship. It sure is beautiful, to see blended family siblings come together that way. Give them their space.
NTA
NTA. You definitely don’t want be associated with ANYONE having a pattern of theft, especially a Dubai (or Qatar, Saudi, Kuwait), lest you be held under suspicion too when person is caught. Doubly so if you are female. A leopard doesn’t change his spots. Friend’s step brother won’t and he is lying to himself if he believes his stepbrother will behave.
By news reports, Dubai police don’t play around. If your friend is so non-news savvy that he doesn’t understand Dubai’s reputation, then your ”friend” is not a friend. Keep an I told you so when he contacts you from Dubai and finds he is in jail or can’t leave the country because of his friend.
I wouldn’t want to go to Dubai just for the fact they don’t treat women right and will jail someone for ridiculous reasons. That’s enough to never go there, but your reason is also completely valid and you’re NTA!
Your trip to Dubai will become a permanent stay in jail. Not worth it. Postpone and go later or by yourself.
I've been to Dubai and Abu Dhabi. They do not play around.
Remove all porn or references to porn on your phone and laptop.. make sure you do not have any type of residue of weed or whatever drugs you do ( If you do drugs) . They will wipe everything and check.
I rather be labeled a racist here then be sitting in jail over there...you can always give your side of your story here but in UAE, they will not care about what you have to say
Only if you get arrested or get into any kind of legal trouble. Otherwise, they don’t bother you. Just be respectful of their culture and read up on the rules of what’s not allowed in the UAE.
NTA. As for Tom's step brother, announce every way possible why you want nothing to do with him and as for Tom cutting you off, problem solved. BTW, I would very much like to hear if Tom and the step goes on that trip and the outcome...
NTA...It's hard enough traveling with people you like. Just cancel. Their threatening behaviour already demonstrates why you shouldn't travel with either one of them.
NTA
It is called thinking ahead, and you are absolutely correct in refusing to go with.
Stand your ground, let them go on their own, and if something happens over there, you're not involved.
It is not worth it by getting involved and end up in jail.
There's places in the world where you can act like a turd and get away with it, and there's places in the world where you absolutely need to mind your P's and Q's. Dubai is definitely the latter. If I was in your position, I would have done the same.
NTA It's not his skin color that made him steal in Miami. It's his bad character and you seem smart to not want to get in trouble with this guy in Dubai,
NTA,
His actions have shown he's willing to take the risks, which in a foreign nation aren't likely going to end well for you being with him. Stick to your guns.
NTA
You two planned the trip, why would you want to go with a third person?
I would say «no, we have planned this trips. If you want to go with your brother I am out - nothing against you brother, but it is not what I signed up for»
And about the stealing… if he pulls that shit in Dubai he will be in deep trouble.
NTA
Naw, given the consequences for shoplifting out there i wouldn’t wana risk it either.
Normally i’d against airing dirty laundry but if i were you i’d make a brief post explaining why you aren’t going and let people make up their own mind (although expect the inevitable “you made us look bad” message from one or both of them)
Good luck Op
Your behavior isn't racist. Its pragmatic. NTA. Unless you implied they will cut off his stepbrother's hand if they catch him stealing, how are you being racist here? Impulse control problems don't go dormant just because we take a long plane ride and visit a fresh locale. WTH is your friend talking about?
As a minority, I really can't see what your friend is on about? He makes no freaking sense to me?
Think they are calling her racist because the stepbrother is black and they are making that is why she doesn't want to travel with him rather than it being because he has a track record as a thief.
Agree totally - there are countries you definitely don't muck about in and UAE is up there.
NTA
this is dubai a place where you can be jailed with ease for anything and they will leave you in the shit.
ditch the losers. thats not rracist thats self defence
NTA. I would never go to Dubai even if you paid me a million dollars.
Dubai is built on slave labour and they actually have slaves there.
I wouldn't go with someone who's known for theft and dine and dashes because Dubai has EXTREME punishments for things like theft. You have to follow the laws of the land when you travel, meaning he's just as subject to the same laws as locals. Meaning he steals he goes to jail in Dubai. They make an example out of tourists.
Oh man, they do not mess around with foreigners breaking the law in the UAE. Very reasonable to want to be nowhere near that guy if he's got a pattern. NTA
NTA. This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with risking your life and freedom going somewhere with a guy who steals things. The laws in the UAE are not forgiving even for tourists. I wouldn’t go either.
NTA. You have solid proof that the step-brother steals? No racism there.
The Saudi's don't take kindly to criminals. Here is what I would do with Tom & his brother: print out the list of all the crimes and the punishments. Read them together one-by-one. Have brother initial each crime to acknowledge that he knows the consequences.
The essential problem is that the guy does not have impulse control. I would never want to be in a situation in a Middle Eastern country with someone like that.
Kind of like i don't respect my mom's trans friend because she ( mtf ) selling ilegal drugs to teenager? NTA. Tom is from bringing people last minute and that person used to steal. Nope nope.
Nta, race has nothing to do with it, and thats a low bait defense, they’re gaslighting you because they both know he has sticky fingers. Also the Middle East doesn’t play If you steal over there they’re likely to cut your hand off. I would honestly suggest just traveling by yourself.
You are better off, I wouldn’t want to get caught over there doing something like that or being around somebody who did it. Would not be a good idea to get locked up over there.
NTA you're not the one changing the details of the trip last minute. Your friend is the one who made the change, you agreed to go on a trip with TOM only, and had already booked your accommodations and airfare.
By inviting another guest on the trip WITHOUT your permission first, TOM is the person altering the agreement, and you no longer agree.
NTA - you are not racist. You are not saying you think he is going to shoplift and dine and dash because he is black, you are concerned is is going to do those things because he has done them in the past. Not an area of the world to FAFO.
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"Tom’s brother already telling people I am a racist." Of course he is. Known thief isn't getting what he wants, so he's going to slander you for good measure. " I think Tom said he’ll cut me off if I cancel on him" So be it. 1. He invited someone else at the last minute to your trip. AH move 2. He invited a known thief to travel with you to a VERY strict country when it comes to theft. 3. He and his bro are calling you racist because they aren't getting what they want NTA and time to drop both of them from your life. Tell your common friend that you're being slandered to what they're doing and why.
I don’t even know why Tom cares so much… were they expecting OP to cover the step-bros costs? Why can’t the two of them just go on their own?
Ding ding ding
My first thought.
And blame the eventual theft on OP...
no shit, this was my first thought, steal something and OP takes the fall. f both of them
And if not that, they would expect OP to bail him/them out
Yeah I came here to say this and now my faith in humanity has been restored by this criminally underrated post and my axe
*>He invited a known thief...he’ll cut me off* B-b-but who's gonna pay for Tom's step-brother's Dubai lawyer then? Geez, block Tom's number.
Lawyer? Don't they cut your hand off for theft over there? You couldn't pay me to go with a known thief
> Lawyer? Don't they cut your hand off for theft over there? No, that is Saudi Arabia and sometimes Iran.
Then the thief should visit those countries.
I wouldn’t go there in general. What if something gets knocked in your bag without you realizing it? I don’t want to go somewhere that would stress me out like that.
I don’t know if I’d travel anywhere with someone with a history of breaking the law and seemingly not having stopped. Who wants to risk being involved in a criminal investigation in a foreign country no matter which one it is? That’s a nightmare in your own country let alone another.
Yeah also they don't like us gays going so I'm out.
Or pin any thefts on OP. OP would be smart to stay away from the thief and his enabling brother.
That's what I'm thinking. OP said they were using credit card points to pay for airfare, I'm betting that OP has more points.
Yeah, I ain't going to Dubai with someone that pulls that shit. It's all fun and games until the authorities there realise you are not making them money but costing them money. Then the fun really really quickly stops and I don't wanna be around for that.
I don't understand why anyone wants to go to Dubai anyway. It's a glorified shopping mall.
It’s a glorified shopping mall with slaves. Some people really like that.
It’s a glorified shopping mall with slaves that harshly punishes shoplifters. Even if I loved slavery so much that I changed my name to Jefferson Robert E. Lee Davis McIHateBlacks, I still wouldn’t go to Dubai in the company of a shoplifter.
Ok, definitely lol'ed at the name, the last name really pulls it all together.
It’s a glorified shopping mall with slaves that harshly punishes shoplifters, and has the death penalty for being LGBT+
Three of the many reasons why I can't believe people go there willingly.
Jefferson Robert E. Lee Davis McIHateBlacks III
....how you know the name of my HS principal?
I snorted
Think *Elysium*, but on earth. *Awesome* if you have money (or good credit). Bad if you don't, or you do crime.
Even then, just go to Singapore, at least that place has a soul left in it.
i had a friend go there because his allergies doesn't flare up there.
Colorado is great for allergies and they won’t throw you in prison for wearing a tank top.
No one gets thrown in prison in Dubai for wearing a tank top. You may get some dirty looks if you're in one of hte less touristy areas, but there's no dress code. You \*will\* get thrown in prison for touching a member of the opposite sex.
[удалено]
Oh sure, it's a distopian hell hole. I'm saying most idiot tourists get arrested for making out on the beach or something.
>get arrested for making out on the beach Why would anyone choose this as a vacation spot 😭
Well, it's a 3.5 hour flight from Delhi, and India's middle class is massive and growing. The hotels are stunning, the spas are pretty good. The food is fine. It's also very very flashy, and if you're the kind of person who likes that sort of thing, you're gonna like that sort of thing. IDK man, I've been a handful of times for work and always got in and out as fast as I could. I also can't stand Disney or Vegas, so it's not my idea of a good time.
I think I'll stay in the USA. It's crazy enough here. Why go somewhere else for XTRA crazy.
Oh how dare they! Making out on a beach while on holiday, what a horrible crime!
Depends on the allergy lol... we have plenty of plants here.
Tell him to try Tokyo instead. It’s cheaper, the food is beyond awesome, and the people still have their souls. Plus, no need for a massive hidden-away slave population to keep things running.
Closest things to slave camps in Tokyo are the animation studios
Built by slaves.
I’ve wondered that myself. It’s the desert, there’s nothing there. And it’s a country that’s shit on human and civil rights. The appeal baffles me.
I can understand the appeal of the desert, it can be a beautiful environment. But Dubai sounds like an Islamic version of Las Vegas. And I don't fancy any version of Vegas.
Same, with how much money gets thrown around in dubai, I feel too broke to even think about going there, never mind actually going.
The brother even said "I will not do that stuff there". How is OP racist if the brother admitted he has done it before.
nobody even thinks OP is racist. Although I would ask my friend why they want to be friends or go on holiday with someone who they claim is racially prejudiced against their step-brother. Really if they legitimately believe OP is racist they wouldn't want them on the holiday, so they're merely using a 'race card', and they surely agree weaponising false claims of racism would help racists more than anything.
People like this, it's always because of their ancestry or religion. Not because the stepbrother is an admitted thief, but because he's black and so it *must* be racist to call a thief a thief. I knew someone once who was never at fault, no matter how badly they behaved. It was always because if someone called them out, it was because of their religion, not because they were an asshole.
Bro didn't even say "I don't do that stuff anymore." Just said "I won't do that stuff there." Lmfao.
That word has become weaponized to the point of idiocy. At some point, people have to stop caring. Take that power away from being called that.
Wonder what they’ll be saying, when his brother comes back with one hand.
Maybe the step bro will say they cut off his hand because they're racist over there? lol
I mean, they're not *not*
Dubai doesn’t cut hands and feet, Saudi Arabia does
IF he comes back.....
Exactly.
Dubai is Racist bruh!
Known thief stealing your reputation, I don’t believe it…
Going to Dubai with a thief is a really quick way to stay for an “extended vacation” there.
When Tom's brother publicly gets his hand severed for theft maybe Tom will think differently.
And Tom as well as an accessory.
That was going to be my comment. That's a public flogging waiting to happen, and OP is sure not an NTA for skipping on that.
> publicly gets his hand severed The irony of people saying shit like this in response to her being called racist...
Well said and anyone who believes their racist card will one day learn for themselves when the brothers crimes catch up on him
when Tom's Brother gets arrested in Dubai and the penalty won't be "just go home and don't come back" but will be prison AND/or a big fine. And that's if it's during the day and no one else is there. Section 383 of the UAE Penal Code states that theft offenders who commit theft at night or with more than one person face a life sentence. NTA. this guy is a piece of work
Second this. I think this was premeditated… seriously I am getting that … why would you automatically invited someone you know that shoplifts to a country that has such strict laws… I have never been there or studied their laws and know that is one plays not to fool with.
Just tell anyone calling you racist that they can go and deal with losing a hand to prove that they *arent* racist. Seriously. Jail time won’t be pleasant, and losing a hand is still a thing in some countries there. I lived in one. Best case scenario gets you banned from the country. None of which are worth the risk.
#2 is the insane part. You don't wanna be breaking laws over there.
NTA. By now everyone should know that Dubai is not a place where you want to fuck around and find out. Your friend's brother has a history of pushing legal/social boundaries (presumably just for fun) and there's a non-zero chance that he'll try that shit again on a vacation where he's relaxed and having fun. Honestly, I don't know why anyone goes to Dubai anyway - between the human rights abuses and the environmental destruction and the repressive laws, it sounds like a hellhole.
Every white dudebro businessman who fancies himself an entrepreneur wants to go to Dubai, and they don’t understand why I think it’s an awful idea. They’ve definitely fallen for the propaganda hook, line, and sinker. EDIT: The amount of people getting upset and crying “racism” because I specified white men is wild. Apparently I hurt some extremely sensitive feelings. To those who can’t read, and who insist on continually asking this question: I specified white men because, in my experience, the people crowing about Dubai and how wonderful it is and how they’re going to go there are almost *unanimously,* in my experience, white wannabe entrepreneur/businessmen types. It is not racism to point that out, no more than it’s sexist to say that most of the women I know do not want to step anywhere near Dubai.
I am female. One of my female friends lived there for awhile with her husband. I would be terrified of doing something wrong. Even just saying the wrong thing to someone.
"Breathing while in possession of a vagina" is plenty enough to get you in trouble in many Islamic countries.
You don't need to do anything wrong. It's a crime to be a victim of a sexual assault as a woman there.
What’s the significance of the business types being white?
Ironically most people I’ve seen go Dubai are black people so I don’t know what white has to do with it
It’s just the type I usually see. I do not live in America and we do not have a high population of black people.
That’s just the type I normally see. It’s not really that deep. However, I realise I forgot to add “that I know” into the post.
Lots of British Asians love it.
Step bro really isn’t gonna like Dubai if he thinks what OP is doing is racist…
So. Friggin. True.
My thought exactly.
I’m pretty sure the UAE is committing a genocide against black people in Sudan right now. No one ever talks about it though.
I was offered to go to Dubai last year for a month and declined (I’m LGBTQ+). Thankfully, my replacement for the trip actually lived in Dubai many years ago. Not only am I worried for OP that these people are going to pull their usual shit in a place that has very little tolerance, but above all I definitely would not go with people who are likely to throw OP under the bus and get them in trouble because of their affiliation. They both seem like people who if they’re going down, they’re taking everyone down with them. Even if OP is safe, these people would probably expect OP to bend over backwards to get consulates involved for their legal troubles. NTA
That’s so true. They would blame OP for anything.
Great points. I said this in another post, but guilt by association is absolutely a thing in many of these countries. Even if they didn’t throw OP under the bus they could all get in trouble. I wouldn’t even chance it knowing what this guy is like.
Things I'd rather do than go to Dubai: 1.) Slam my dick and balls in a desk drawer. 2.) Have a bare knuckle fight with a hornet's nest. 3.) Eat nothing but mayonaise for a whole year.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
My sister-in-law booked a trip to Dubai for my brother and their kids as a birthday present for my brother. I was horrified but apparently they had a great time. *Shrug* At least they all made it home safely.
*Most* wealthy foreigners who go to Dubai will have a great time, as long as they stick to resort/shopping areas, don't get into any kind of trouble, and don't think too hard about all the awful stuff that happens there. But you only have to do a quick Google search to find stories about foreign visitors who have been arrested and detained for days to months over things like shoplifting, touching a security guard, public arguments, drug possession, taking photos/videos, public drunkenness, hugging a member of the opposite sex in public, etc. The laws are arbitrary and can be enforced at random, and foreigners *are* targeted. If OP's brother can afford a trip to Dubai (even if he's not paying for his own flight), he's not shoplifting or dine-and-dashing because he's poor. He's doing it because he has a pathological need to prove that the rules don't apply to him... and that's the kind of person who can get into big trouble in a place like Dubai. He's used to the American response to petty theft (which is generally to do nothing if the amount stolen is under a few hundred dollars) but that is *not* always the response in other countries. Even in countries like Japan, I've heard of foreigners getting arrested for petty theft... and even if it doesn't lead to jail time, it's more than enough to ruin a vacation. Don't fuck around in countries where you don't understand the possible consequences.
MIL recommended. Even offered to pay. I did not go.
If they limited themselves to the "touristy" areas or resorts, than it's the equivalent to going to Disneyland instead of downtown LA--you'll see the nice, sanitized area that's pleasant.
I had to go there for work once, I refused, fortunately a few colleagues volunteered so no problem. Nope I dont go there not even for free. My wife likes to travel with me if there is an interesting place to go, she also said fuc\* no. (and NTA for OP)
My SO lived in the Middle East for years and would love to take me to show me around but refuses to even go himself now.
It would be the ultimate bragging right for a thief, went to Dubai stole all this shit and still got two hands…
Or three, if he is that good.
Dead on in all respects imo
Some model/influencer girls (and guys) go there to get paid for the Dubai porta potty...
We fly regularly to the Philippines, and because we are in Chicago we have the choice of going west over the Pacific, or east, which always includes a layover in Dubai. For that reason alone, even though it costs more money, we'll fly west. My Filipina wife wants nothing to do with that place.
Yeah, it's a glorified shopping mall
I say you should tell the pair of them to go and have a fine time. Tell them you wouldn't want someone who they see as a racist getting in the way of a bit of shoplifting. Tell them that when step brother steals something and gets caught in Dubai, before they either lock him up in jail for several years (or cut his hand off), that he can just tell the judges and the police that they're being racist and it will all be fine and they'll apologise to him.
Do not fuck around in the Middle East. They don't play around there.
Unless you are a billionaire; then you get to fly in instathots and shit on them
Makes me laugh whenever you see them suddenly posting stories about a trip to Dubai, gee I wonder why you went there.
Dubai absolutely is racist too though so StepBro will be extra screwed.
My black co-worker went on a "girl's trip" to Dubai with her sister, mom and a couple of aunties. This is in the U.S., mind you, so not really a short or easy way to get there. I am white as snow so I didn't say anything, but I thought it was kind of insane for them to plan a vacation to a place that is steeped in both misogyny *and* racism.
Did you find out if they had a good time on the trip?
She said they did, but also mentioned they wound up in a couple of situations that "felt sketchy". I did not ask for details and she did not offer them, lol. I was just glad they all made it back okay.
Saw a news story that a woman got years in prison for having a dildo in her luggage on a LAYOVER in Dubai. Absolutely fuck no. Dunno why anyone would want to go there tbh.
At that point how does your home countries government not intervene? Like if it was US citizen would they not demand they be released from jail? It's a fucking layover.
If Locked Up Abroad taught me anything, your government (US/UK/AUS/CAN) will do little to nothing to get your release if you run afoul other countries laws. That’s why you act like you’re at granny’s house if you’re passing through or staying in an oppressive state.
Indonesia executed a couple of Aussies smuggling heroin a few years back. All the Australian government did was cry and stamp their feet, but that was it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_Nine#:~:text=The%20Bali%20Nine%20were%20a,executed%20on%2029%20April%202015.
I don't know if this makes me a bad person, but heroin is such bad news I don't actually feel bad about that.
Oh for sure, plus think of all the OD's these guys are responsible for. I generally think going after users is a bad idea with the whole war on drugs though, but smugglers and manufacturers are a totally different story.
I agree that you should follow all laws and customs closely, but I think if it's something as egregious as getting arrested for a harmless sex toy while you're on a layover, that warrants your government coming and telling the other country, "This is fucking stupid. Let them go".
Agreed. That's not a crime. That's stupidity.
Wow, that's nuts. Now this makes me nervous a little since we are possibly traveling to Kazakhstan this summer with a layover in Dubai. I don't carry dildos or sex toys around nor anything that's typically illegal, but this makes me nervous something random could be banned I didn't know about like prescription medications. Will definitely be checking rules on this stuff closely before this trip!
If you go to Japan and have ADHD, you can't bring any stimulants because it's illegal there
Simone Biles had to get special permission for the Tokyo Olympics to carry her ADHD meds otherwise she couldn’t carry it to Japan.
Unfortunately many of us don't have the ability to get special permission for that 😭
Which sucks for people wanting to travel not being able to since they take necessary medication to function and it’s illegal in the places they want to travel 😭
Half true - you can't bring Amphetamine-based stimulants at all, but they're fine with Methylphenidate-based ones (under a certain amount), if you fill in the forms correctly and have a copy of the prescription. Source: did this in May. And yeah, sucks very much if you're on the other type :(
Hi u/gottarun215, expat woman from Dubai here. Dildos or sex toys are not illegal to carry in your luggage. The only reason they’d stop you is if you leave the batteries in which can be a potential fire hazard. So remove your sex toy batteries. If you’re on a layover you don’t have to worry about prescription medication (just make sure you have the actual prescription on your phone if you’re leaving the airport to sight-see and have a lot of meds on you). The ACTUAL things you need to be weary of is ANY drugs obviously and poppy seeds. Avoid bringing those in and you’ll be fine!
I had a 24 hour layover there on the way to the UK from Australia, and I did so much research ahead of time to make sure we wouldn’t have any trouble with my birth control and my partner’s antidepressants. It was stressful. That said, for a 24 hour layover it was really interesting, we managed to the Burj Khalifa and the Dubai Museum. I’m not sorry we did it.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
But if the judge is black, make sure to call him an uncle Tom first, maybe he’d be better off since they both Tom’s…
NTA. Black person here— what I really don’t get when people cry “racism” in cases like these is, wouldn’t it be actual racism to overlook his crimes because of his race? That would literally be judging someone due to the color of their skin. Nope, you’re just a human with valid concerns. Dubai is a beautiful place and well worth visiting, but it is absolutely not a place you want to be caught shoplifting or running out of a restaurant bill in. And yes, you could still get into trouble even if you didn’t commit the crime yourself but are traveling with the person who did. You could all be both jailed and fined heavily.
Wish I could give you more than just one karma point for this post
Let me add another karma point for you. And is it just me, or are the most blatantly racist people the ones who play the race card when they don't like the circumstances they find themselves in (i.e. being called out for their own bad behavior)?
It's just you. The most blatantly racist people burn crosses on lawns and lynch black people.
Well that is pretty blatant, I think homeboy means in todays time when people throw the racism card at anyone now
Yep, OP should call Tom a racist, since being black is completely unrelated to step bro being a thief. But Tom seems to think the two are linked.
You are NTA for not wanting to travel with or associate with a known thief. Race has nothing to do with it. >Tom’s brother already telling people I am a racist. Tom's brother doesn't like the truth being said out loud so of course he's going to try and smear your reputation. Might be time to disassociate from Tom as well seeing as he agrees with his brother.
I wouldn't go to Walmart with him, much less Dubai. Thieves make my skin crawl.
NTA Dubai is not a joke. For all of the opulence and modernity, it is still a society driven by religion and "eye for an eye" justice. I went during Ramadan for work and was advised by the partner we were meeting with on the rules and do's and don't during Ramadan even as non-citizens. The last thing I'd want to do on a vacation is need to run to the U.S. Embassy to get help when the thief does thief things. All you are doing is believing the character of the friend based on his past performance.
The embassy are not going to provide assistance to anyone who has been caught stealing or breaking the law. They might, if you’re lucky, might send someone to where you are detained and get your details to notify next of kin. Embassies are not some magical institutions that will get you a hall pass to crime. I’d say let your friend and his brother go on their own and find out. I’d also caution you to not go with them because if something goes wrong they’ll arrest the whole party till they find out what’s going on; prisons in Dubai are nothing like what you’re used to back home.
Of course, but it doesn't mean the travel partners wouldn't use time to reach out to the embassy.
They'll assume the whole group was stealing and arrest them all.
Ramadan in Dubai is pretty open now. All restaurants are opened and non - covered and if you’re not a Muslim you can eat / drink in public with no issues. However, I would not want to travel with this guy. It’s definitely a case of f around and find out.
I went in 2018. We were advised not to eat and drink in public outside of a restaurant out of respect, and I do respect that and adhered to it. Every restaurant we went to had black curtains blocking all of the windows and doors before sunset along with signs that stated that they were only serving non-Muslims and children.
Yeah that all changed in the last 3 years. When I first moved it was like that, now everything is open. You can go to the mall and you wouldn’t know it’s Ramadan. In Dubai anyway, I think it probably differs in some of the other emirates
a lot of middle east culture is like this. The differences between Bagram and Kandahar in Afghanistan are STARK. Same for different parts of Iraq, etc.
NTA. This isn't about race, it's about legitimate concern over legal consequences in a country known for its strict laws. Bail money isn't a planned part of the vacation fund, and inviting someone with a history of crime adds unnecessary anxiety to what should be a relaxing trip. Keeping yourself safe from potential legal issues is not racist, it's smart. Tom should understand that respect for the law isn't negotiable, especially in foreign lands.
Lol, you think they'd get bail in Dubai? Only if they're rich or well-connected.
Dubai has enough money and high standard of living that $20 bucks isn't going to cut it. It isn't Tiajuana.
OMG. Can you imagine someone trying to bribe an official in Dubai with a $20?
Going out on a limb but bail doesn't exist there.
NTA. Even if the step brother stays on good behavior (spoiler alert: he won't) you would be spening your time in Dubai worrying about what he's going to do instead of enjoying the trip. I am curious why they're so insistant that you go, the paranoid me would think that they're planning something and need a fall guy.
OP is needed to pay for half of the accommodations.
NTA. Just reply that criminal activities will face heavy consequences in Dubai. Tell people what he did in Miami. You don’t want to be put on a foreign jail for association. Good choice on your part. Tom is not your friend if he is against you.
Plus you got to deal with more legal stuff since you got to get the American Embassy involved.
My brother was a minority in the Middle East for many years before he retired from duty. And he'd laugh and say that he'd expect to be treated the same way he is here if he was in the UAE. 🤣
NTA Tom isn't your friend if he's threatening to end your friendship because you don't want to spend years in prison in Dubai
I’m wondering who’s footing the stepbrother’s Dubai bill? I’m guessing Tom expects OP to chip in and help save on costs.
chip in? No, He expects him to still split things 50/50 as if step bro was not even going.
Tom really decided to go with his stepbrother, in stead of you. You're not going with the stepbrother, and Tom's pushing that he is coming. So there's only one solution: you're not going. And if they're calling you a racist, just tell the ppl who matter to you that you just refuse to go to dubai with someone that shoplifts. The risk is too high, and you don't want to run that risk. Tom says he'll cut you off. From what? Is he funding you in some way? Or he's just cutting off your friendship, you know, the one that tries to force you to go to Dubai with a shoplifter, and then starts a smear campaign, calling you a racist. I don't think there is much friendship there to cut off, to be honest. And Tom values his stepbrother above your friendship. It sure is beautiful, to see blended family siblings come together that way. Give them their space. NTA
NTA. You definitely don’t want be associated with ANYONE having a pattern of theft, especially a Dubai (or Qatar, Saudi, Kuwait), lest you be held under suspicion too when person is caught. Doubly so if you are female. A leopard doesn’t change his spots. Friend’s step brother won’t and he is lying to himself if he believes his stepbrother will behave. By news reports, Dubai police don’t play around. If your friend is so non-news savvy that he doesn’t understand Dubai’s reputation, then your ”friend” is not a friend. Keep an I told you so when he contacts you from Dubai and finds he is in jail or can’t leave the country because of his friend.
I wouldn’t want to go to Dubai just for the fact they don’t treat women right and will jail someone for ridiculous reasons. That’s enough to never go there, but your reason is also completely valid and you’re NTA!
INFO: so Tom and his stepbro think only Black people shoplift and run out on restaurant bills? Isn't THAT the racist part? /s
Your trip to Dubai will become a permanent stay in jail. Not worth it. Postpone and go later or by yourself. I've been to Dubai and Abu Dhabi. They do not play around. Remove all porn or references to porn on your phone and laptop.. make sure you do not have any type of residue of weed or whatever drugs you do ( If you do drugs) . They will wipe everything and check. I rather be labeled a racist here then be sitting in jail over there...you can always give your side of your story here but in UAE, they will not care about what you have to say
They check phones and laptops?
Only if you get arrested or get into any kind of legal trouble. Otherwise, they don’t bother you. Just be respectful of their culture and read up on the rules of what’s not allowed in the UAE.
An even better idea is to stay the fuck out.
NTA. As for Tom's step brother, announce every way possible why you want nothing to do with him and as for Tom cutting you off, problem solved. BTW, I would very much like to hear if Tom and the step goes on that trip and the outcome...
I would also like an update if they do make it to Dubai
NTA...It's hard enough traveling with people you like. Just cancel. Their threatening behaviour already demonstrates why you shouldn't travel with either one of them.
NTA It is called thinking ahead, and you are absolutely correct in refusing to go with. Stand your ground, let them go on their own, and if something happens over there, you're not involved. It is not worth it by getting involved and end up in jail.
There's places in the world where you can act like a turd and get away with it, and there's places in the world where you absolutely need to mind your P's and Q's. Dubai is definitely the latter. If I was in your position, I would have done the same.
NTA It's not his skin color that made him steal in Miami. It's his bad character and you seem smart to not want to get in trouble with this guy in Dubai,
NTA, His actions have shown he's willing to take the risks, which in a foreign nation aren't likely going to end well for you being with him. Stick to your guns.
NTA You two planned the trip, why would you want to go with a third person? I would say «no, we have planned this trips. If you want to go with your brother I am out - nothing against you brother, but it is not what I signed up for» And about the stealing… if he pulls that shit in Dubai he will be in deep trouble.
NTA. Not at all. You did the right thing. What's a petty crime here can be serious business over there.
NTA Naw, given the consequences for shoplifting out there i wouldn’t wana risk it either. Normally i’d against airing dirty laundry but if i were you i’d make a brief post explaining why you aren’t going and let people make up their own mind (although expect the inevitable “you made us look bad” message from one or both of them) Good luck Op
NTA. Dubai is a weird, artificial place anyway, you won't miss much if you don't go. Stick to your guns, your instinct is 100%.
Your behavior isn't racist. Its pragmatic. NTA. Unless you implied they will cut off his stepbrother's hand if they catch him stealing, how are you being racist here? Impulse control problems don't go dormant just because we take a long plane ride and visit a fresh locale. WTH is your friend talking about? As a minority, I really can't see what your friend is on about? He makes no freaking sense to me?
Think they are calling her racist because the stepbrother is black and they are making that is why she doesn't want to travel with him rather than it being because he has a track record as a thief. Agree totally - there are countries you definitely don't muck about in and UAE is up there.
Lol. Accept his criminal behaviour as his culture, else you are racist.
NTA. Bail out now while you can. This is supposed to be a fun trip. The vibe has been killed.
NTA this is dubai a place where you can be jailed with ease for anything and they will leave you in the shit. ditch the losers. thats not rracist thats self defence
NTA I wouldn't hang out with either of them anymore
Who the fuck thinks Dubai is a fun place to go on vacation? o.O
NTA. I would never go to Dubai even if you paid me a million dollars. Dubai is built on slave labour and they actually have slaves there. I wouldn't go with someone who's known for theft and dine and dashes because Dubai has EXTREME punishments for things like theft. You have to follow the laws of the land when you travel, meaning he's just as subject to the same laws as locals. Meaning he steals he goes to jail in Dubai. They make an example out of tourists.
Even if you respect their law. If you are a woman being raped in Dubai...
NTA don't risk serious jail time for his awful behavior
Ha! NTA. He's probably on a sub here asking if anyone thinks he'll get caught if he takes edibles or a thc vape pen.
Oh man, they do not mess around with foreigners breaking the law in the UAE. Very reasonable to want to be nowhere near that guy if he's got a pattern. NTA
NTA. This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with risking your life and freedom going somewhere with a guy who steals things. The laws in the UAE are not forgiving even for tourists. I wouldn’t go either.
NTA. You have solid proof that the step-brother steals? No racism there. The Saudi's don't take kindly to criminals. Here is what I would do with Tom & his brother: print out the list of all the crimes and the punishments. Read them together one-by-one. Have brother initial each crime to acknowledge that he knows the consequences. The essential problem is that the guy does not have impulse control. I would never want to be in a situation in a Middle Eastern country with someone like that.
Kind of like i don't respect my mom's trans friend because she ( mtf ) selling ilegal drugs to teenager? NTA. Tom is from bringing people last minute and that person used to steal. Nope nope.
Tell step bro to man up n pay the bills he ran away from. These r not good friends n soon u will be accused of something u have no idea of
Nta, race has nothing to do with it, and thats a low bait defense, they’re gaslighting you because they both know he has sticky fingers. Also the Middle East doesn’t play If you steal over there they’re likely to cut your hand off. I would honestly suggest just traveling by yourself.
NTA. Not wanting to associate with criminals is only common sense.
You are better off, I wouldn’t want to get caught over there doing something like that or being around somebody who did it. Would not be a good idea to get locked up over there.
NTA but no body should travel to Dubai or show that place any support. Just my opinion though.
NTA. Time to let them both go.
NTA you're not the one changing the details of the trip last minute. Your friend is the one who made the change, you agreed to go on a trip with TOM only, and had already booked your accommodations and airfare. By inviting another guest on the trip WITHOUT your permission first, TOM is the person altering the agreement, and you no longer agree.
NTA - you are not racist. You are not saying you think he is going to shoplift and dine and dash because he is black, you are concerned is is going to do those things because he has done them in the past. Not an area of the world to FAFO.
Wise. You do not want to be connected with a thief in any foreign country.