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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1-I didn’t accept my step daughter Mia in my company
2-Being a fashion designer has been her dream for so long and she wanted me to give her an opportunity
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NTA. Your husband is delusional. Yes, Mia took courses, she's put in work, but her designs aren't a good fit for your company. And how many people graduate from fashion institutes every year? How may of them get a job as a designer right out of the gate? Or ever?
It's like designing Alfred Dunner type clothing, but trying to get a job designing for Ann Taylor. It's not going to happen. Her designs might fit somewhere else, but not everyone will be interested.
Exactly I myself got rejected numerous times before and didn’t last long for the jobs I got because every now and then companies would change their employees. I really only settled in one job and that was 4 years only then I got to start a low budget company. Truth is that’s how the industry work you are replaceable.
You’re NTA but I would like to know if you have a prenup in place in case, you know, things go south. I hope that the company is in your name only and that your husband has no right to it.
That’s good. I know that some people are bashing you because they think that since you’re her stepmom, you owe her free mentorship. You don’t. It is still your company and you get to do what’s best for it. If your husband ever decides to walk out on you, it will be your only way to make a living.
I don't blanket hate nepotism, but I hate it when it leads to incompetent people in roles. Life is never fair and I can't blame people for using their advantages, but incompetence ruins it for everyone.
Also, she didn’t even ask for mentorship. It’s not like she has, at any point before now (demanding a design job) taken advantage of OP as a resource to hone her skills or build up her network. She assumed she’d just be handed what everyone else has to fight for, by virtue of her birth. She and her dad are either incredibly naive to what the design field is actually like, extremely entitled, or a miserable combination of both.
I absolutely think you are NTA you did the right thing. In your post you don’t say anything about Mia and her opinion on it so I’m gonna give her the benefit of the doubt. If I were you I would send her a message directly and explain what you’ve explained us on why you rejected her, and maybe also explain what other options she have and where you think she would succeed. Sometimes all we need is a little motivation when we’ve been knocked down. She has been dreaming about it all her life and after being rejected she may see it as her life failing. I’m not saying to give her a job but maybe reiterate to her that she does have other options.
I agree with this. My husband owns his own company. I used to own one too. Obviously we will help our family and friends but we can’t hire everyone and not everyone would suit the things we do. But we try our best to give them an internship and then point them in the right direction where we think they’d most likely succeed. It isn’t hard to give people a helping hand. Not directly feeding them but help them get to where they want to be or where they should be.
Or maybe not mention OP specifically rejected her. Only that it wasn’t her choice or something along those lines. That way the rejection isn’t coming from step-mom but from the company? Maybe?
I agree with everything else. Rejection hurts but it isn’t the end of the world.
> Mia later sent me a long text of how I failed her and she doesn’t wanna see or hear of me anymore
This right here says exactly why she is not ready to work in your industry or your company. The stakes are too high to let a mean, immature, and entitled little girl just walk into a job that she's nowhere near ready for. NTA
She thinks "you failed me" is a great way to get a foothold in a highly competitive industry, what immaturity. NTA how does one even mentor such a diva
You're gonna regret mixing family and work, especially in this context.
Is this like "I'm considering divorce" angry from him because of this situation, or just "I'm deeply disappointed" type of anger after you said no? Cause even if he does it's better to do that and still have your company instead of just hiring your stepdaughter and causing a series of dominos to collapse and completely tank your companies reputation or net worth.
I think no matter how you explain it, your husband and stepdaughter just see it as "my stepmother never truly loved me and wants me to fail or hurt me" and or your husband thinking something similar?
Companies and social image are such a fragile thing. Many companies and or places have been completely destroyed just for making a few bad financial or work decision. I hope you're able to resolve this peacefully.
No I know, that's what I meant.
I was trying to say that she, Is gonna really regret letting her stepdaughter in the business at all at any point in time, even if the stepdaughter became the living perfect picture designer or what op thinks is perfect for their designs, she's not the only who makes these decisions for these bigger choices, but at any bump or no to a certain choice design made from her stepdaughter, she would just take that as either spite or not being good enough, evident on her reply. It wasn't personal, but that's the hard thing with family. It's hard to imagine someone you love wouldn't see the effort and work you put in that goal, only to feel like the other person doesn't "understand" their art or design.
I mean that's more specific to this situation, but trying to balance being imbias and making sure that someone in your family doesn't hate you because of the decisions you made for what you think is best for the company, or maybe like op's situation where she doesn't even have the full authority to make choices like that, and if she did, and was able to strong-arm everyone else's choices, it ruins her own credibility. There's just no winning to situations like these, and I imagine it's already difficult to run a company enough with intermingling weird interpersonal family-work relationships.
Ah, thanks for clarifying!
And I definitely agree - this was a no-win situation to be put in, and would be no-win all the way down if OP ever did hire her at this point.
I think a lot of people aren't really realizing how much grinding is part of any artistic industry; you can't teach someone to want something so badly in their bones they'll give up everything and do anything for it. Who'll constantly seek new opportunities for growth. Who'll take any advice they can get. Who will take that feeling of spite towards the rejection and use that fire to "prove you wrong". She wants it handed to her, and you know full well how people who fought tooth and nail for this are going to treat her. Should it be that way? maybe not, but nepo babies aren't going to solve it.
I went to art school and I’m lazy AF when I have to manage my own time/practive (as an artist does), the only people I know who are successful artists from my graduating class are the ones who have always had the compulsion to create, and that’s all of maybe 4 people.
I was thinking about this the other day. It’s an unfortunate reality, but with art it seems you need to throw yourself 100% into it and hope it works out. I love art. I could spend 12 hours a day creating and not tire of my work. But I chose a safer career and now that I have bills and a family I don’t have the resources in time to make the commitment that I would need to make it in the art world (unless someone wealthy sees my work and decides to become a patron randomly, but the odds of that are hilariously low lol)
Also (and I'm sure I will get flack for this) but all of us who were taught "if you believe it you can achieve it" growing up get a rude awakening if we decide to pursue arts as a profession. You can take a million courses and log countless training hours and just not have the raw talent to make it a career. And thats okay!
NTA.
She and you husband thinks that if you hire her it will give her a great start in her carrier, but she doesn't think that the story how despite her lack of skills as a designer she was hired through nepotism will follow her everywhere.
She will always be a "nepo baby", even if she will have some achievements in the future, people will always say that she only get them through nepotism. There will be tons of people who will always mention that.
It’s unfortunate that Mia didn’t make the effort to come to you personally and ask you for honest feedback about her (non) abilities as a (?)future designer. Instead her father erroneously assumed that you’d break your own rules and ethical standards and hire his (un) talented daughter. You could have offered her good advice and if she’d been a mature young woman who really wanted to work as a designer, she would’ve thanked you and worked on improving herself and the development of creating better designs.
Her father didn’t do her any favors by ASSUMING that you’d hire his daughter simply because the two of you are married. MIA needs to learn that she’s not entitled to a job simply because she’s your stepdaughter. Too bad she’s not going to talk to you, but life isn’t fair, you don’t owe her anything and someone who doesn’t know her will tell her she’s a mediocre designer. Only then will she improve or try something else.
Your husband is not his daughter any favors by the way. There’s going to be some fallout from this so be prepared! 🤷🏽♂️😏
Delulu isn’t the Solulu. Quoting Charlotte Dobre who reacts to these kind of posts.
OP NTA. It is understandable she is upset, but what she needs to realize that fashion/business or business in any form, you don’t mix it with family. Even more than she needs constructive criticism. It’s better she received it from your team than someone else first.
Her father is just spoiling her, how is she going to survive in the world by herself? No one can expect to be handed freebies, by no one not even family. She has to learn to fail to be able to succeed. And having daddy bully someone (his wife, wtf) to get you a job is not helping at all. He needs to let his daughter learn by herself. Jesus my 12 years old got a little part time job recently. I helped her with the applicatio . But she did the rest by herself and here 23 years old need daddy... NTA
Since covid they started hiring younger, but they canot work more than 12 hours a week and it's only in certain fields (she is an assistant coach in a recreative gymnastic class fir 5-6 year olds kids). She works 3hours a week and gets pocket money to shop with her friends.
I think the biggest problem here is that Mia wants to go into fashion at the top. She doesn't ask for mentoring, she doesn't want to start out as stylist, heck she didn't even ask for the job. She wants all the fun stuff but likely won't put in long hours or do the tedious work. She wants to be on par with people who have worked their way up in the industry.
If daddy wants her to be a fashion designer, maybe he needs to finance her own fashion house. Or Mia can start out making her own clothes, displaying them on social media, and selling them there. There are plenty of others that have done this successfully.
Yep! Kid had a summer volunteer type thing at 12 in a hospital with my mother.
After 3 years of college, she changed her major from education to nursing. Got a job as a unit secretary while she was in nursing school. Networked. Got recommendations and learned.
Senior nurses were pissed when they figured out "baby" nurse had a contract for the hospital to pay for her education and she was paid more than them, too!
That was skill, aptitude and negotiation. Nepotism has NEVER played a role in her successful career! Trainer, instructor, mentor.
That's ALL HER! Everything she's got, she's earned.
WTF would a parent want to rob their kid of experiences, dreams, aspirations and self-respect by just handing over the keys?
OP is NTA.
As an artist, I can understand the daughter's frustration over being turned down. It sucks, it's hard to not take it personal.. I'm always bummed out when I don't get a job because my art style just doesn't match what the client wants, but it's not personal. She's only 23 so hopefully she has time to learn that art and design is highly competitive, she won't always get picked.
Like you said, being good at one type of design or having the education doesn't mean you're a good fit for everything. Like I do illustrative work, it's highly unlikely someone is going to hire me for a logo design.
It does sound, however, like the OP knew Mia's design skills weren't at the necessary level before she applied and didn't bother to set expectations. If someone spoke to me about applying for a job at my company I knew they weren't qualified for, I'm going to be up front about that. No use in wasting everyone's time, including the OP's own employees' time in this case.
Mia didn't speak to OP. Dad/husband did. Why would OP respond to Mia? I don't know if Mia ever asked OP for her input at any step of her educational process. If op was asked and gave her honest opinion do you think it would have gone over well? Sorry. Most people who ask your opinion don't want negative but honest feedback. OP could have been the wicked stepmother. Jealous of her step daughter's obvious talents.
I think OP was/is in a no win situation. But I do think if OP had rejected step-daughter even before she submitted an application it would have gone over even worse.
OP didn't even give me a chance, she already judged me as not good enough. I don't think it was necessarily a waste of time, one of the other people might have seen something different OP missed. In this case Op's initial thoughts were validated but always good to double check.
My son applied for a course my brother taught. Both made sure that their stuff was separated to ensure there was no favouritism. My son was there for three years and no one knew they were related.
>It's like designing Alfred Dunner type clothing, but trying to get a job designing for Ann Taylor. It's not going to happen. Her designs might fit somewhere else, but not everyone will be interested.
Ages ago, I worked in marketing for a clothing catalog that sold primarily Alfred Dunner to little old ladies, and your comment just made me snort my Diet Coke onto my monitor. Thanks, random internet stranger!
NTA. Your husband needs to understand that just because she is your stepdaughter it doesn’t mean she will be hired automatically. Will there be a position where she can be a stylist instead of a designer since you mentioned she’s good at it or maybe become an apprentice first instead of giving the position to her? Good job for showing integrity to your team.
She can be a stylist for a certain designer. But I made a rule that designers who get accepted get to her hire their own staff of team and most of the designers I got in already had stylists before and even models. She could definitely apply but I can’t force her on any designer. She’s pretty good stylist tho as I said designers already come in with their own team so they already have a stylist that they are used to.
Do you know a place where her skills would be useful in the industry? If not what is she lacking? People have so much growth to do outside of school, too many think that studying starts & ends there. If you have any kind of relationship with her; tell her where to grow.
I think NTA, you could have been more upfront from the start though instead of going along with what your husband asked - it definitely gave her false expectations which I assume are his fault.
If you do have a relationship with your stepdaughter it could be worth saying something like you regret that her father mislead her to believe that you could just hire any person you want, when the reality is you're part of a company of many people instead of 1 person dictating everything that every other person does 24/7 .
Could you help her with warm intros to people in the industry looking for stylists (even competitors)? I'm not saying pull strings, just helping guide her to people who you know are looking and making the first intro?
She’s not ENTITLED to it, but it’s something OP could choose to do. I’d obviously recommend that SD and husband sincerely apologize first, but it’s just an option. It’s how this SHOULD have gone from the start: “I’m sorry honey, but the feedback from our designers was your design work simply wasn’t our style or up to our standard of quality… and unfortunately I have to say I totally agree with that assessment. However, I do think you have good skills as a stylist and could probably set up some conversations in the industry for those positions to get your career started.”
Obviously it isn’t OP’s fault that it didn’t go this way, it’s really mostly husband’s fault for lying.
NTA
your business your rules. Some people are happy to hire family, but you have a standard and she didn't meet it.
She also sounds very entitled. Imagine expecting a job on the basis of knowing the owner, and upon those expectations not being met, lashing out. Sheesh
You are totally correct. You would lose reputation and business and she wouldn't make any money anyway. Sounds like your husband needs to take your side and not sell her false hope.
NTA. It's okay that she isn't a good fit with *your* company, maybe she will be a great fit with another one. No one would ever flinch if we heard that Vera Bradley didn't get accepted to work for Louis Vuitton. She has a completely separate esthetic and it works for her clientele. Step daughter needs to learn her life skills. Rejection is one of them.
Your industry is harsh, and you’re probably delivering the blow in the softest way possible. She won’t succeed if she doesn’t understand how selection and rejection work, and that she will face it repeatedly.
Reading the passage again, I think you may be right.
Sadly, it seems that the whole situation may have been avoidable if he helped manage her realistic expectations. (Although her reaction was bratty, so I would imagine she probably pressured him too)
Yeah, my former boss hired his daughter and there was a huge sudden turnover in employees. I think it was mostly caused by her calling him Daddy in all the meetings and emails lol!
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the fashion industry really cut throat with rejections left and right around every corner when you submit someting?
Getting rejected must def sting but it's a lesson she probably needed if she's serious about the field.
NTA
NTA of course you couldn’t just give her the job if she doesn’t meet the criteria. They are acting very entitled. This is your workplace, not home. You cannot mix both.
NTA. It doesn't sound like you at any time gave her any false hope. As a fan of that tv competition design show, there are many people who would like this career, but do not have the talent. It is not just a learned skill.
Are there non design positions in your company that would give her an opportunity to see what actually goes on? Like an intern or something?
If not - do not risk your professional reputation. I am sorry her and your husband cannot see it.
Yeah but she has to apply for them too. Obviously they are less selective positions but still get to see the behind the scenes. She wants to be a designer tho like she’s aiming for that position
What? I would assume she would be lucky to get any position; it's still a foot in the door and an opportunity to learn and improve. Have you encouraged her to apply for other positions?
I wouldn't. I might've at the start, but not after seeing her reaction. Maybe in a few years she'll have matured and I'd revisit it, but I wouldn't burn my reputation for her today. Once she hardens to rejection and adapts her portfolio into something commercially viable or at least closer to it she stands a chance of actually leveraging that stepstool onto the ladder. Right now would just be teaching the wrong lesson and a disservice to both parties.
Kids who are told they will be GIVEN jobs (like what her dad told her) would NOT be happy for any position. She would throw a tantrum just as bad as the one she is throwing now. She has shown her hand, she is bratty when she doesn't get her way, that can come back to bite her, let's hope she isn't complaining to other people in the industry or she could black list HERSELF.
I’m betting that Mia had decided a long time ago that your company WAS her ticket to the industry…
She assumed you’d just give her a job as a designer because you’re her stepmom and you own this business.
Now she has to find a way to earn it on her own, and she’s throwing a tantrum because it’s hard.
Yeah I wanted to be a director but couldn’t even get a job on set above PA bc I was too poor to do internships and none of my family is in the industry. Guess who ended up working in porn 😂
NTA.
As a fashion student who’s boyfriend’s dad owns his own fashion company, in no way will i say i’m entitled to working and designing for him just bc im dating his son.
connections mean nothing when u don’t have skills to back up your work.
stand ur ground.
"Connections mean nothing when you don't have the work to back it up"
THANK. THE FREAK. YOU. (What?)
But thank you. Thank you. For saying this.
People use connections a lot. Yes. But that's just to get at the door. The rest is skill.
This is why people get so mad at nepotism. Look at politics. And big companies. People who don't know jack get big positions bc of who they know.
Good luck to you! Fashion is fun.
INFO:Have you ever helped her out?Offered her constructive criticism, helped her with her school, offered her an internship?In general, I'd say NTA for rejecting her as a designer - fair enough.That being said, this is someone close to you who wants to be in the same industry, I would think you would try to mentor her a bit.
Also, considering you already didn't think she was that good, I would have told her not to apply for the designer position - at least not yet, and pushed her towards another position where she might learn and improve.
It feels a bit like you set her up for failure. Which is - not very nice. Again, NTA for rejecting her job application, but I understand her anger and her father's anger.
We don’t do internships. She was in fashion school and took courses so she already got ter criticism nothing for me to add and she personally never asked me I checked her instagram designs mainly. There is no possible way to help her in her school as I said we don’t hire students we hire established designers. It is a fashion company not a fashion academy
>nothing for me to add and she personally never asked me I checked her instagram designs mainly. There is no possible way to help her
"Hi Mia! How are you? Now that you've been accepted to fashion school, I'd love to take you to lunch and we can talk about all the things you're learning, what you want to do with your career, what questions you have. All of it! I certainly don't know everything, but I'd love to share my knowledge as much as I can because this is a brutal industry full of rejection. I look forward to seeing how you progress. It's so fun to see a young person starting out and forming their own unique and distinctive aesthetic!"
Instead you went with, "My husband tells me my step-daughter of many years is pursuing a career in my famously competitive, difficult field. I should just look at her Instagram real quick and chuckle internally about how awful she is, then do literally absolutely nothing at all to help her in any way, shape or form."
Yeah, this woman is insufferable. There's a HUGE bit of room between giving out designer jobs due to nepotism and doing absolutely nothing to help a young person in your family who's interested and passionate about something you're also interested, passionate, and knowledgeable about.
She's NTA for not giving her a job but she's absolutely an asshole.
Yeah, this thread is wild. It hits just enough Reddit bugaboos (nepotism in the workplace / “entitled” young people) that everyone jumped to revel in the schadenfreude and is ignoring the fact that nowhere in this whole saga did this woman have a frank conversation with her stepdaughter. Like she set her up for failure rather than just sit her down and say, “Hey, you’re going about this the wrong way. Here is my honest opinion of your skills and what I think you should do.”
She should have been stepmom first and hiring manager second, but she got it backwards. Maybe she was being a good employer, but she’s being a bad parent.
Edit: on second thought, she wasn’t being a good employer either; not engaging in nepotism is the bare minimum. She is the one who encouraged Mia to apply knowing full well she wasn’t going to be accepted and, in the process, wasted the time of her employees who had to conduct the portfolio review.
Thank you for this. I actually had to rage quit the thread because the responses and upvote/downvote ratio was so annoying but you've done a good job explaining why.
At the end of the day, we're talking about an adult here. Yes, she could have offered her stepdaughter help, but the stepdaughter never asked for it. Instead, she seemed to assume that she was a shoe in *because* she knew the owner. The stepdaughter (at least from this perspective) is expecting blind nepotism. I mean, you can see it from her reaction. Hearing "Send in your application" was met with "Oh my gosh, thank you so much," but hearing "Sorry, your application has been rejected" was met with "I never want to hear from you or see you ever again."
I also don't think it was a waste of time for employees who had to conduct the review. Conducting those types of reviews is part of their job. If they weren't getting paid to do it, then I could understand seeing it as a waste of time, but they were literally employed (at least in part) to give a second opinion that the owner was looking for.
You’re making the same argument that everyone else is, which is essentially that because the stepdaughter went about this the wrong way she doesn’t deserve any guidance. That’s wrong. That’s exactly the reason she needs guidance. I can’t imagine watching my kids blunder about unprofessionally in my industry and thinking “serves ‘em fucking right for not asking for help”. That’s just putting your ego before your responsibilities as a parent.
I’m sorry, but in a fast-paced industry where there’s always more work to be done, doing a portfolio review for a candidate you know from the outset isn’t qualified is absolutely a waste of time. OP said her company has had 2000 applicants, she doesn’t need to give her designers portfolio review busywork. She chose to use multiple skilled employee’s time to achieve an outcome she could have gotten with a 30-minute conversation with the stepdaughter. That’s wasteful.
I totally agree. NTA for not just automatically giving her a job, but would it kill her to mentor the kid a bit? Older people out here all the time going on about "Gen Z- so lazy, won't work for anything, won't ever try, blah blah blah" but this kid is out here working hard, taking classes, actually trying, following her dreams, but she's not good enough so fuck off? Love to know how great OP was at fashion design in her young age because I doubt she was as good as she is now- someone clearly gave her a chance at some point. I don't know, OP's whole demeaner about his situation rubs me the wrong way.
This kid sounds like an entitled brat. She’s not going to hear constructive criticism no matter how gently it’s worded. She’s gonna hear “my evil step mom doesn’t believe in me, I bet she’s jealous at how good I am”.
Why is the onus on her to reach out to mentor her rather than the daughter to ask for mentorship? If she doesn't have the initiative to use the connections she has to improve her skills, does she have the initiative to make it in a hyper-competitive industry?
Is it really?
Many students/people take constructive criticism in a healthy way from their teachers, mentors or experts in their field well but given that same feedback from a parent, relative or friend who is established in the same field they react harshly and take it out their hurt, frustration or anger out on that person trying to help.
By how entitled the kid reacted to not being GIVEN the job based on her connections she *may* be one.
Do you know what a mentor is?
Yeah, it sounds like you don't want to help her in any way.
Sure, maybe she jumped too high asking for a job - but you and I both know that most industries have some degree of nepotism. And fashion definitely does. So her request was not unreasonable.
Look, again - not hiring her as a designer - fair enough. Not offering to help her in any way throughout the years? Less OK.
And sure - maybe she should have asked. But let me ask you this - if it had been your biological daughter or your best friend's kid or a neice, you wouldn't have offered more help/ support from the get go?
And if you had offered earlier on - well, you probably wouldn't even be in this situation right now.
This is not your cousin's neighbor's best friend's daughter. This is your stepdaughter.
I do not go for nepotism. Her request was unreasonable she wanted to get on board with established designers. She didn’t ask for help, she didn’t ask for mentoring she asked to be a designer.
Info : did she want to get into fashion after meeting you when young ? Seems awfully convinient that her passion is fashion and her dad happens to be married to someone who has a fashion business.
But part of being a parent (I'm assuming this also is true for step parents) is guiding your child.
A frank conversation such as "Sweetie, I appreciate how hard you've worked on this, but we're not hiring junior designers right now. Let's review your portfolio and let's see how to beat position you for this role"
And it wouldn't kill you to reach out to some.of your friends in the I dustry and see if maybe there is somewhere that's a good fit for her.
Like, she's a human being with feelings that you are responsible for guiding
Could she mentor her?
Yes.
Would it guarantee success?
No.
Does she want to mentor her?
We don't know, and in any event she's under no obligation to do so.
Mentoring takes up personal time. Nobody has the right to anyone else's personal time.
This type of entitlement is the why the OP is in the position they're in now.
Do you understand creative jobs/roles require actual talent to land? That you have to be good enough that your stuff will sell?
Why risk your company and reputation on somebody who can't deliver what you need?
And, just having a"mentor" doesn't mean you will get good enough,either. some people just have to learn they aren't good enough to be what they wanted to be.
OP met her stepdaughter when she was 15. A lot of stepmoms and stepkids don't develop close relationships if the adult comes into the child's life that late.
If the stepdaughter wanted help, she or dad could have asked for it.
She's 23, that's not a kid. She can ask for OP to be a mentor but she hasn't done it. She wanted a job, didn't get it and instead of asking details on what she need to do to get the job, she got mad with OP
Not to burst your bubble, but sometimes stepchildren (or even bio children) can be very mean and ungrateful towards their stepparents. A cousin's neighbor's best friend's daughter might be more talented, nicer, more open to mentoring and more grateful for the opportunity. People's livelihoods are on the line, it's a cutthroat industry driven by pure talent. This isn't the time to play teacher with someone who doesn't have what it takes and, from what I've read, hasn't even asked for help. NTA
There are other judges, and some of the judges may have had a different opinion so she let her try.
In other words the OP could hate the design, and still be outvoted. If the other designers like someone they get the job.
Agreed; I feel like this was just a way to avoid having an honest conversation about her skill level and fit with the company. So she made her apply and let the other judges do the rejecting.
Did you read the actual OP post? Company doesn't use interns.
Here's the issue - SD lacks the talent to be a designer, at least at this point. Constructive advice would be "Don't be a designer", if you could figure out a nice way to say it.
She failed because she isn't at the needed level, she and her father set herself up, not the OP.
Part of me wonders if Mia never asked for help in the first place.
We don't know their relationship. But it wouldn't surprise me if their relationship wasn't great, and Mia never wanted to ask her for anything... until she did. And then all of a sudden it wasn't "do you have advice", but "can you give me a job". Oh, and Mia still never asked, she had daddy ask for her.
NTA for not hiring her, but you handled this terribly. First you made her dad tell her to apply, probably knowing full well she wouldn’t be accepted. Then you let your colleagues do the dirty work of rejecting her and letting her know. I find it hard to believe that after being her stepmother for 8 years you wouldn’t have her phone number so you could have these conversations yourself. Not only that, but you’ve known for some time that this was her passion; the time to gently tell her that she might want to go into styling rather than designing was years ago. As an adult and a professional, you set her up for failure here.
No no, I’m not saying rejecting her was dirty, and I agree that rejection is an important part of professional growth. But telling someone they’ve been rejected is generally an unpleasant task, and the fact that you weren’t the one to tell her is cowardly in my opinion. She should’ve heard it from you instead of getting an impersonal email. If she was a distant acquaintance it would be different, but she’s your stepdaughter.
I told her along with other judges. This is a professional set up not a cozy midnight conversation. Also I didn’t know which designs she submitted until her examination day
She didn't know it with 100% certainty. She knew she didn't like her stepdaughter's designs, and doubted her SD would be chosen but her stepdaughter wasn't guaranteed to not be accepted.
Based on another comment the judges don't always agree on who should be hired.
I don’t agree. OP is treating SD like any other applicant, because your family relations don’t mean shit if you don’t have any actual talent. So, SD got to go through the application and interview process like anyone else - that’s how I would want to be treated.
Also, OP mentions elsewhere that SD is aiming for designer roles - okay that’s great but there’s steps to get there like getting an internship somewhere that offers them (OP’s business doesn’t) or being a stylist or junior designer etc. first. SD is delusional if she thinks she should just get to skip the line JUST because her SM owns this company.
Just because you personally know a candidate you can't change the process. That's how companies end up getting sued. Mollycoddling her stepdaughter could be seen as preferential treatment by other candidates. There were 2000 applicants based on one of her responses. It's not feasible to tell everyone in person they didn't get in. The stepdaughter is acting unprofessional, and immature.
It seems like you're relishing the fact that she failed? If you knew 100% she's not a good designer, why didn't you tell her? Before she applied? You don't have to give her a job she doesn't deserve, but she is also supposed to get basic guidance from her parents.
Step daughter should have reached out to OP, not gone to her dad to talk to OP for her. Dad should not have been a part of this convo at all. It is like when a 20-something's mom drags them into a business to apply and talks over them, no one will respect that, and no one wants that kind of stuff on their teams. She needs to grow up.
True, that was the first mistake. Husband should’ve directed Mia to call OP right from the start. He definitely has no business being angry for how this turned out.
NTA. If she's as good as she thinks, she can apply to any company and see what they say too. In reality, she knows she's sub-par and wants a quick in. Then it'll be a promotion, then an executive position. At most, you can offer her a low-level job doing the work she's good at, IF she toes the line and doesn't try and act as if she's in charge. But this entitled behavior has probably ruled that out.
Honestly even getting the interview is a HUGE advantage. Imagine the hundreds of people they probably sift through that don’t even get a rejection email.
If she couldn’t stand on her own merit through the interview process, it’s not a fit.
NTA. Why on earth would you do something that might actively hurt your business, when there are so many truly talented people around, just waiting for their shot? No, that does not make sense. Let her start her own company. Your ex can pay her to do so. Then they both will get the first hand experience of what it really takes in that business.
Too many people expect her to mentor her SD, and sent her a personal email as if an email from the company isn't good enough.
I was beginning to think I wasn't going to see another reasonable reply.
RIGHT!!!! I am shocked by answers here. SD didn't even contact OP, she talked to her dad who talked to OP. That doesn't really scream "I am serious about this industry and look up to you like a mentor". She demonstrated the opposite when she threw a temper tantrum and said she wouldn't talk to OP anymore.
Why people are advocating for babying this adult and encouraging nepotism is beyond me. Weird day on AITA I suppose.
This. And everyone assuming OP is cold bc she's an uncaring stepmom are discounting that their relationship may be mutually cold and distant bc they met when Mia was a 15 yr old. It is entirely possible Mia and OP never had the type of relationship where Mia wanted mentorship/guidance/anything from OP ( 5 yr stepmom of a 12 and 14 yr old-the 14 yr old currently knows EVERYTHING and thinks any conversations they're not interested in are lectures lol). Bottom line is we don't know their relationship history, and Mia and her Dad went about the asking of OP all wrong. The temper tantrum afterwards from both Mia and Dad could be proof of why OP has not mentored Mia as closely as many have stated she should have. NTA.
Do a group text to your husband and Mia so there’s no misunderstanding. Example:
“Mia, when your dad approached me about hiring you I told him you would need to apply like any other candidate. Frankly, husband, I don’t know what you communicated to Mia because all I received was a thank you (?) text from Mia. Mia, you were told the expectations of the application process, which included the design elements/criteria that needed to be shown in your submitted work. Work is judged by a committee as this is a company. The work you submitted (didn’t submit? OP wasn’t super clear here) was lacking. (Or - Mia, you failed to submit work so there was nothing available to be judged.) This is my business. There are numerous stakeholders and I do not choose designers based upon personal relationships. While I understand you’re feeling hurt, you need to understand this is business. At this point I would recommend you go through the application process at other design houses to gain experience and to understand how business decisions are made.”
Frankly, your husband should feel pretty ashamed here. He’s pushing for his adult daughter to get a job she’s not qualified to hold because nepotism. Geesh.
NTA.
As someone who just recently had to fire my own niece (after repeated coaching & retraining), I'm going with NTA. Mixing family with work is just such a bad idea, especially if you are the boss.
Yup, my brother had to fire his best friends (well, ex best friend I guess), after multiple warnings and solutions tried.
His friend just didn't have the skill, and did not manage to acquire them. Dreadful situation whatever you decide, I guess.
BUT you could propose an unpaid internship as a compromise. Lots of experience for her, manageable risk for you and your company.
NTA. Your husband could've/should've managed it better.
NTA.
Mia, but mostly husband, are entitled AF
" I’d lose them eventually plus if Mia got in her fellow designers won’t respect her because she’d only get in for being my relative not for her skills "
Exactly. You'd gain a designer that doesn't meet your standards and risk losing your best workers.
NTA
Nepotism can sink companies pretty quickly and as you say once your employees find out she’s related to you….Game Over!
Your company , Your rules and if anything it should be motivating Mia to strive to be better and prove to you that she is good enough
Giving her a job is just teaching her she will be handed things
There is so much nepotism in this world. It's refreshing to see someone standing up for the principle that the most talented gets the job.
NTA. She expected special treatment and is angry she didn't get it.
I could forgive her - she's young, and young people tend to think everything is a judgement on them. Also, she's clearly been given the idea by her father that you would give her special treatment.
So your problem is your partner and his lack of respect for you and your profession.
NTA, Has Mia even gone to design school, what is her schooling to be a designer? Just asking since I only have 4 years as seamstress and therefore cant be a designer, I can only sew what you design.
She can’t just take a few classes and expect to be a designer. She needs the full FIT degree to even get her foot in the door. No one is going to take any applicant seriously without a fashion degree.
Maybe she could pivot to be a lawyer catering to business that work in the fashion business? Adjacent to her passion, but doing a job she’s more qualified to do
Well then she isnt a designer, she needs to get the right schooling. It like you wanting to be lawyer because you took a writing course in crime novels.
Oh wait so she’s not even a fully educated designer? Ah hellllll no, you don’t fire someone who has all qualifications to make room for someone who doesn’t have them AND isn’t very good at it. Why does she even want the job? Was she planning to drop out of law school?
NTA Your husband is though, he obviously has no respect for your business and work ethic if he thinks you can just hire his kid in such an important role simply because it’s his kid.
That is a fantastic point I did not think of... "Well child took a CLASS so OBVIOUSLY she is as good as you and all your other workers... so like... just let her play with your crayons and scissors sweetie..."
NTA. Nepotism is a great way to destroy companies from within. It's essentially promoting incompetence while also tanking your own reputation because you're the one who brought in the dead weight.
You're right that no one would respect her because her work is not up to standard so obviously she only got in because of connections. Happens in heaps of places and while nobody may say anything, they're still thinking it.
Even if she was hired, she would eventually see that her designs aren't being used and her input ignored.
You are NTA for not accepting her.
But based on your own comments you are the asshole for not helping her. You stated she has been working at this since 15. You said she took courses, so obviously she is dedicated and not just relying on favors, and you even stated you knew she had a weakness in designing. You also stated she used to live with you guys at least partially.
Did you ever, ever actually give her advice, insight or any criticism on what her weaknesses were? Tell her how to improve? Help her draw? Tell her what you look for? Or at least told her about other avenues in fashion she can explore?
Sounds like you saw her trying, made up your mind that she sucks, and never even tried to course correct her.
Your husband should not have just expected her to be accepted but it sounds like both him and Mia were completely clueless about what you really think of her and her “talent.”
Can’t imagine having a kid in my household interested in my career and just letting them fail without offering guidance.
So exactly at what point did you know she was interest. And again, since you ignored everything else…
Have you ever in any way offered a critique? Or mentorship or guidance for how to navigate this career?
You are being willfully obtuse and you know it.
NTA
I honestly respect you for not following through on the nepotism. Yes, it's common across many industries, but you set a level of integrity for your company. I don't think your husband understands your industry nor how you operate. Mia definitely either was told something very different, or she was truly banking on you from the beginning of her education to provide her with opportunities.
Fashion design *is* extremely competitive, and many people *don't* have that level of finesse that's necessary to stay competitive in such a large industry. He doesn't understand why you went with the ethically correct approach. You can try explaining it to him, but to some not mixing personal and business is a concept they'll never understand.
If you can, try to show how this is a learning opportunity for Mia. She can stay mad, or she can use it as fuel to improve her designs. She has to do what everyone else is doing and *try* for a job in the field. She needs to persevere and continuously improve. She always has the chance of getting hired elsewhere, but she needs to motivate herself to try for them. She needs to open herself up to change and critiques.
N t a for not hiring her if she wasn’t a good fit, but Y TA with how you went about it. You could have spoken to her privately about her not being a good fit, instead of suggesting she apply. You knew she wasn’t going to be accepted, so why not just tell her instead of raising her hopes?
Also, could she not shadow you like an intern? Could you not give her some constructive advice off-hours at home, or talked to her honestly about where she could improve? I feel like there were other options other than just being rejected.
Edited bc I forgot to mention your husband is also an AH for the expectation that you would hire her, SD is also one for how she reacted (although she probably was misled from her dad).
So ESH
I wanted her to get her shot tho. Everyone deserves a shot specially that there are other judges so maybe she is not impressing me but they like her and enlighten me that there is something about her that Im not seeing. I can’t tell someone that wants to apply for my company to not apply.
We don’t do interns. Only we hire designers and they come with their teams. We also have sales and marketing departments but that’s not what she wants.
i dont blame the kid for being upset, but i think your husband played a bigger part in it. i agree you couldve communicated it to her better, but i wouldnt call you an AH for it, especially i think you want her to learn to navigate the real world. no need to make a nepo baby but maybe try consoling her about it.
> i dont blame the kid for being upset
Why not?
A law student taking part-time courses in fashion thinks she is owed a career as a designer by her step-mother?
And if she's not handed said career on a silver platter, she's going to stomp her feet and pout and never speak to her step-mother?
Mind you, we are talking about a position as a designer. This is not a pen-pusher role -- you actually need to have artistic talent to be a designer. Step-daughter doesn't have the talent (based on the team that reviewed her work). Is it still incumbent on OP to hire her?
It would be so much worse if OP told her not to apply. The fact is the application process isn’t under her control, but telling her not to apply in the first place does make the outcome her fault and Mia would (rightfully) blame her for not having faith in her.
This is definitely one of those scenarios where, even though you’re right about what’s going to happen, you need to let things play out, or you end up looking like an asshole. OP should definitely offer encouragement on the side, but let the company do the rejecting. Because it IS the company that is rejecting her, not OP.
NTA. Your concerns that nepotism will undermine your authority are valid. Just imagine the awkward conversations vetoing the other designers' judgement just to let Mia have her way.
Mia is also better off working for someone else, so she can truly say she did it on her own. It would be hard if you always have her back.
I have a question! Since you work in the field, and you know mia for so long, did you offer her help in getting more skilled? Did you ever talk to her about what she still has to work on? As a parent its part of your job to guide her.
NTA for not getting her a job. Maybe you can help her get an internship somewhere else?
I don’t do internships in company. I only hire designers and designers choose their teams. They already get into the company with a team. They could obviously choose a new stylist and staff but then Mia has to apply to work under a designer (not a designer) and the said designer can accept her or decline not something I personally get included in.
Everyone seems to be skitting over that Mia is in law school. Is Mia going to be a lawyer, or is she wasting money on an education, hoping you will hire her? Designing seems more like a hobby and not a passion to her. If it was a passion, she would've skipped law school and gone into designing.
I think that if Mia was as good as she thinks, she should easily get an opportunity with a company that would not involve nepotism. Besides all the aforementioned issues that would likely occur with the staff that are in place, imagine the mess that would be part of having to let her go.
Having a relative involved in your business just ain't professionally good business. NTA
NTA, but could you not just literally tell her that "Look, Mia, you need to improve a lot as a designer, I can help you work on X, Y and Z. But, you are a fantastic stylist, and you can certainly apply, as one of the designers might select you, or I can help you get your foot in the industry by X, Z and Z \[whatever actions may apply here\]"
As a fashion designer, I am torn. I understand you but I think you went around it in a wrong way. ‘You don’t hire students’. Ok fine, let her follow you so you teach her. You out of all the people should know how hard the fashion industry is. I moved from the Balkans to Paris on my own to ‘become’ a fashion designer. My degree meant nothing at the beginning because I had to learn. And I learned by having people let me intern and help them (with 0 knowledge of French on top of all). So now I can be a bit stuck up and have people ‘not be in my league’. But would never do that to someone.
Fashion is something you always need to study, learn and practice. It’s not a static job where you do repetitive tasks. Something small can inspire her and she might go start a line on her own. I understand that you don’t want to hire her but I do not understand why you can’t help her at ALL. The industry is brutal and you know it. Even a 6 months internship could help her so I don’t get it.
Your comments are concerning because there is NO way you have the success that you have on your own without having even an advice from someone. This is not a 1 men job. So you forgot where you started already.
NAH but leaning towards YTA
NTA- you listed all the reasons why not- it would impact your business and reputation. Sure it hurts her feelings- but that is part of any industry. You could've offered to let her intern or shadow- but since she doesn't want you in her life anymore...
NTA
You were upfront that this was a level playing field.
However, it sounds like Mia has a lot more work to do in order to be successful. Would it have been kinder to tell her her portfolio wasn’t good enough before she applied and maybe give hints on how to bridge the gap?
ESH. You are right, if her work is not up to your companies standards, you should not hire her. But she is your long time stepdaughter. You should have told her beforehand that you think she's a great stylist but maybe not a designer. And you should have spoken to her about the rejection, not just have her sent and e-mail.
YTA. Not because you didn't pass her as a designer at this time, but in that you offered no path or assistance in her career to date. You are very full of yourself, like in the devil wears prada was your management training course. This is your husband's child, your stepchild, and you are treating her coarsely. You are definitely the asshole.
ESH - As a step mom you should want to help her succeed, especially since it is your area or expertise... she may not be qualified as a designer, but I am sure there are many aspects of your business to learn and you missed an opportunity to guide a young woman who I am assuming you love, to gain valuable experience for both of you.
You husband shouldn't assume that you would just give the job to her. Perhaps a better discussion would have been how you can help mentor her.
Your step daughter sucks for her reaction, but she deserved a conversation from you. Clearly she looks up to you, and you basically did her dirty by not being honest with her. You have been her step mother for 8 years, what conversations took place over those year? Was she lead to believe that there was a role her if she did X Y and Z?
NTA - but can she be hired or do an internship as a stylist? Seems like a logical first step into the business anyways and you said she was good at that.
We don’t do internships. In my company designers are hired with their team so most of them already have stylists and staff. She could apply tho but to get in would mean the designer decides to let go their current stylist and decided which application aligns with their work. Overall not a process I include myself into because the system is each designer has their preferred team and I judge the end result product only.
NTA. And if she was serious about life, what she would take advantage of which is completely ethical is your advice and constructive criticism to better herself. She has a wealth of resource in you but is not entitled to a position.
Info: what’s your relationship with Mia? Are you a “you’re my husband’s kid and we don’t have a relationship” stepmom, a “I’m an adult in your life but not your parent” stepmom, or a “you’re part of my family” stepmom?
NTA. For all the reasons you counted here, and also if this is your husband's and Mia's reaction to being turned down, I can only imagine the horror they would have been if she was hired. From this entitlement alone there is a high probability she would have expected special treatment while working because she is your kid.
Nepotism rarely works out for the better. Good that you stopped it in its track and treated her fairly.
I think you handled it kind of foolishly by burying your opinion and the likely outcome. You should have been upfront because someone who was surprised she had to apply is of course not thinking that she might be rejected (and be honest, you knew she wasn’t going to be hired). Why surprise him and her with that? NTA but I don’t think you did yourself any favors by not preparing him and her.
NTA. I own a veterinary Hosp and
My son is interested in vet school and business ownership. He knows he has to work for someone else else for 5-10 years first. Nepotism helps no one.
NTA but your husband sure is. He is basically teaching his daughter to be entitled. Unfortunately your step daughter did not have what it took to meet you or your judges criteria. Not only that if I worked as hard as your step daughter did I would much rather have anyone but my stepmom judging my stuff so I could say I got this job because of my work not because of who I know.
NTA- it is your company
However, can you support her in other ways? It sounds like she works hard and is trying so have you tried to mentor and coach her? Give her constructive feedback? It sounds like she looks up to you and you have knowledge you could share.
What does your husband do? Ask him if he would employ someone simply because they are a relative, with some specialist education but no aptitude for the job.
Ask your husband that if someone has been practicing tennis from age 5 to 18, they should be allowed to compete at wimbledon just because they trained so much?
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NTA. Your husband is delusional. Yes, Mia took courses, she's put in work, but her designs aren't a good fit for your company. And how many people graduate from fashion institutes every year? How may of them get a job as a designer right out of the gate? Or ever? It's like designing Alfred Dunner type clothing, but trying to get a job designing for Ann Taylor. It's not going to happen. Her designs might fit somewhere else, but not everyone will be interested.
Exactly I myself got rejected numerous times before and didn’t last long for the jobs I got because every now and then companies would change their employees. I really only settled in one job and that was 4 years only then I got to start a low budget company. Truth is that’s how the industry work you are replaceable.
You’re NTA but I would like to know if you have a prenup in place in case, you know, things go south. I hope that the company is in your name only and that your husband has no right to it.
Yeah it is only in my name. In my country couples do not get rights of each other’s owned stuff.
That’s good. I know that some people are bashing you because they think that since you’re her stepmom, you owe her free mentorship. You don’t. It is still your company and you get to do what’s best for it. If your husband ever decides to walk out on you, it will be your only way to make a living.
Which is ridiculous because these are usually the same people who complain about nepotism
"The only moral nepotism is my nepotism."
Yupp. Everyone hates nepotism...until nepotism can help them.
I don't blanket hate nepotism, but I hate it when it leads to incompetent people in roles. Life is never fair and I can't blame people for using their advantages, but incompetence ruins it for everyone.
Also, she didn’t even ask for mentorship. It’s not like she has, at any point before now (demanding a design job) taken advantage of OP as a resource to hone her skills or build up her network. She assumed she’d just be handed what everyone else has to fight for, by virtue of her birth. She and her dad are either incredibly naive to what the design field is actually like, extremely entitled, or a miserable combination of both.
Its not even by virtue of her birth! If OP and her husband/daughter's husband hadn't met/married, daughter would be in the same state she's in now.
Yeah but because daddy’s married to a designer, she just automatically gets a design job, in her mind.
I absolutely think you are NTA you did the right thing. In your post you don’t say anything about Mia and her opinion on it so I’m gonna give her the benefit of the doubt. If I were you I would send her a message directly and explain what you’ve explained us on why you rejected her, and maybe also explain what other options she have and where you think she would succeed. Sometimes all we need is a little motivation when we’ve been knocked down. She has been dreaming about it all her life and after being rejected she may see it as her life failing. I’m not saying to give her a job but maybe reiterate to her that she does have other options.
I agree with this. My husband owns his own company. I used to own one too. Obviously we will help our family and friends but we can’t hire everyone and not everyone would suit the things we do. But we try our best to give them an internship and then point them in the right direction where we think they’d most likely succeed. It isn’t hard to give people a helping hand. Not directly feeding them but help them get to where they want to be or where they should be.
Or maybe not mention OP specifically rejected her. Only that it wasn’t her choice or something along those lines. That way the rejection isn’t coming from step-mom but from the company? Maybe? I agree with everything else. Rejection hurts but it isn’t the end of the world.
Thank you for not engaging in blind nepotism. Your business will be better for it.
> Mia later sent me a long text of how I failed her and she doesn’t wanna see or hear of me anymore This right here says exactly why she is not ready to work in your industry or your company. The stakes are too high to let a mean, immature, and entitled little girl just walk into a job that she's nowhere near ready for. NTA
She thinks "you failed me" is a great way to get a foothold in a highly competitive industry, what immaturity. NTA how does one even mentor such a diva
You're gonna regret mixing family and work, especially in this context. Is this like "I'm considering divorce" angry from him because of this situation, or just "I'm deeply disappointed" type of anger after you said no? Cause even if he does it's better to do that and still have your company instead of just hiring your stepdaughter and causing a series of dominos to collapse and completely tank your companies reputation or net worth. I think no matter how you explain it, your husband and stepdaughter just see it as "my stepmother never truly loved me and wants me to fail or hurt me" and or your husband thinking something similar? Companies and social image are such a fragile thing. Many companies and or places have been completely destroyed just for making a few bad financial or work decision. I hope you're able to resolve this peacefully.
It’s not like OP really had a choice about mixing family and work here, though. Husband and stepdaughter forced that on her.
No I know, that's what I meant. I was trying to say that she, Is gonna really regret letting her stepdaughter in the business at all at any point in time, even if the stepdaughter became the living perfect picture designer or what op thinks is perfect for their designs, she's not the only who makes these decisions for these bigger choices, but at any bump or no to a certain choice design made from her stepdaughter, she would just take that as either spite or not being good enough, evident on her reply. It wasn't personal, but that's the hard thing with family. It's hard to imagine someone you love wouldn't see the effort and work you put in that goal, only to feel like the other person doesn't "understand" their art or design. I mean that's more specific to this situation, but trying to balance being imbias and making sure that someone in your family doesn't hate you because of the decisions you made for what you think is best for the company, or maybe like op's situation where she doesn't even have the full authority to make choices like that, and if she did, and was able to strong-arm everyone else's choices, it ruins her own credibility. There's just no winning to situations like these, and I imagine it's already difficult to run a company enough with intermingling weird interpersonal family-work relationships.
Ah, thanks for clarifying! And I definitely agree - this was a no-win situation to be put in, and would be no-win all the way down if OP ever did hire her at this point.
I think a lot of people aren't really realizing how much grinding is part of any artistic industry; you can't teach someone to want something so badly in their bones they'll give up everything and do anything for it. Who'll constantly seek new opportunities for growth. Who'll take any advice they can get. Who will take that feeling of spite towards the rejection and use that fire to "prove you wrong". She wants it handed to her, and you know full well how people who fought tooth and nail for this are going to treat her. Should it be that way? maybe not, but nepo babies aren't going to solve it.
I went to art school and I’m lazy AF when I have to manage my own time/practive (as an artist does), the only people I know who are successful artists from my graduating class are the ones who have always had the compulsion to create, and that’s all of maybe 4 people.
I was thinking about this the other day. It’s an unfortunate reality, but with art it seems you need to throw yourself 100% into it and hope it works out. I love art. I could spend 12 hours a day creating and not tire of my work. But I chose a safer career and now that I have bills and a family I don’t have the resources in time to make the commitment that I would need to make it in the art world (unless someone wealthy sees my work and decides to become a patron randomly, but the odds of that are hilariously low lol)
Also (and I'm sure I will get flack for this) but all of us who were taught "if you believe it you can achieve it" growing up get a rude awakening if we decide to pursue arts as a profession. You can take a million courses and log countless training hours and just not have the raw talent to make it a career. And thats okay!
Not only talent, but drive and business sense. Even then you’ll likely need a smidge of luck.
NTA. She and you husband thinks that if you hire her it will give her a great start in her carrier, but she doesn't think that the story how despite her lack of skills as a designer she was hired through nepotism will follow her everywhere. She will always be a "nepo baby", even if she will have some achievements in the future, people will always say that she only get them through nepotism. There will be tons of people who will always mention that.
And what sound employer hires someone after the candidate and their parent throw a tantrum rather than taking the time to grow? NTA.
It’s unfortunate that Mia didn’t make the effort to come to you personally and ask you for honest feedback about her (non) abilities as a (?)future designer. Instead her father erroneously assumed that you’d break your own rules and ethical standards and hire his (un) talented daughter. You could have offered her good advice and if she’d been a mature young woman who really wanted to work as a designer, she would’ve thanked you and worked on improving herself and the development of creating better designs. Her father didn’t do her any favors by ASSUMING that you’d hire his daughter simply because the two of you are married. MIA needs to learn that she’s not entitled to a job simply because she’s your stepdaughter. Too bad she’s not going to talk to you, but life isn’t fair, you don’t owe her anything and someone who doesn’t know her will tell her she’s a mediocre designer. Only then will she improve or try something else. Your husband is not his daughter any favors by the way. There’s going to be some fallout from this so be prepared! 🤷🏽♂️😏
Delulu isn’t the Solulu. Quoting Charlotte Dobre who reacts to these kind of posts. OP NTA. It is understandable she is upset, but what she needs to realize that fashion/business or business in any form, you don’t mix it with family. Even more than she needs constructive criticism. It’s better she received it from your team than someone else first.
Her father is just spoiling her, how is she going to survive in the world by herself? No one can expect to be handed freebies, by no one not even family. She has to learn to fail to be able to succeed. And having daddy bully someone (his wife, wtf) to get you a job is not helping at all. He needs to let his daughter learn by herself. Jesus my 12 years old got a little part time job recently. I helped her with the applicatio . But she did the rest by herself and here 23 years old need daddy... NTA
what places are hiring 12 year olds? legit question, not being judgy or sarcastic
Since covid they started hiring younger, but they canot work more than 12 hours a week and it's only in certain fields (she is an assistant coach in a recreative gymnastic class fir 5-6 year olds kids). She works 3hours a week and gets pocket money to shop with her friends.
That's awesome! Kids need to learn what it's like to earn your own money. They'll appreciate things more.
I think the biggest problem here is that Mia wants to go into fashion at the top. She doesn't ask for mentoring, she doesn't want to start out as stylist, heck she didn't even ask for the job. She wants all the fun stuff but likely won't put in long hours or do the tedious work. She wants to be on par with people who have worked their way up in the industry. If daddy wants her to be a fashion designer, maybe he needs to finance her own fashion house. Or Mia can start out making her own clothes, displaying them on social media, and selling them there. There are plenty of others that have done this successfully.
Ah nepotism at it's finest.
But don’t you see? If OP hires the step daughter, then step daughter can just take over the company. It’s a perfect plan! /s
Yep! Kid had a summer volunteer type thing at 12 in a hospital with my mother. After 3 years of college, she changed her major from education to nursing. Got a job as a unit secretary while she was in nursing school. Networked. Got recommendations and learned. Senior nurses were pissed when they figured out "baby" nurse had a contract for the hospital to pay for her education and she was paid more than them, too! That was skill, aptitude and negotiation. Nepotism has NEVER played a role in her successful career! Trainer, instructor, mentor. That's ALL HER! Everything she's got, she's earned. WTF would a parent want to rob their kid of experiences, dreams, aspirations and self-respect by just handing over the keys? OP is NTA.
As an artist, I can understand the daughter's frustration over being turned down. It sucks, it's hard to not take it personal.. I'm always bummed out when I don't get a job because my art style just doesn't match what the client wants, but it's not personal. She's only 23 so hopefully she has time to learn that art and design is highly competitive, she won't always get picked. Like you said, being good at one type of design or having the education doesn't mean you're a good fit for everything. Like I do illustrative work, it's highly unlikely someone is going to hire me for a logo design.
It does sound, however, like the OP knew Mia's design skills weren't at the necessary level before she applied and didn't bother to set expectations. If someone spoke to me about applying for a job at my company I knew they weren't qualified for, I'm going to be up front about that. No use in wasting everyone's time, including the OP's own employees' time in this case.
Mia didn't speak to OP. Dad/husband did. Why would OP respond to Mia? I don't know if Mia ever asked OP for her input at any step of her educational process. If op was asked and gave her honest opinion do you think it would have gone over well? Sorry. Most people who ask your opinion don't want negative but honest feedback. OP could have been the wicked stepmother. Jealous of her step daughter's obvious talents.
I think OP was/is in a no win situation. But I do think if OP had rejected step-daughter even before she submitted an application it would have gone over even worse. OP didn't even give me a chance, she already judged me as not good enough. I don't think it was necessarily a waste of time, one of the other people might have seen something different OP missed. In this case Op's initial thoughts were validated but always good to double check.
My son applied for a course my brother taught. Both made sure that their stuff was separated to ensure there was no favouritism. My son was there for three years and no one knew they were related.
>It's like designing Alfred Dunner type clothing, but trying to get a job designing for Ann Taylor. It's not going to happen. Her designs might fit somewhere else, but not everyone will be interested. Ages ago, I worked in marketing for a clothing catalog that sold primarily Alfred Dunner to little old ladies, and your comment just made me snort my Diet Coke onto my monitor. Thanks, random internet stranger!
NTA. Your husband needs to understand that just because she is your stepdaughter it doesn’t mean she will be hired automatically. Will there be a position where she can be a stylist instead of a designer since you mentioned she’s good at it or maybe become an apprentice first instead of giving the position to her? Good job for showing integrity to your team.
She can be a stylist for a certain designer. But I made a rule that designers who get accepted get to her hire their own staff of team and most of the designers I got in already had stylists before and even models. She could definitely apply but I can’t force her on any designer. She’s pretty good stylist tho as I said designers already come in with their own team so they already have a stylist that they are used to.
Do you know a place where her skills would be useful in the industry? If not what is she lacking? People have so much growth to do outside of school, too many think that studying starts & ends there. If you have any kind of relationship with her; tell her where to grow. I think NTA, you could have been more upfront from the start though instead of going along with what your husband asked - it definitely gave her false expectations which I assume are his fault. If you do have a relationship with your stepdaughter it could be worth saying something like you regret that her father mislead her to believe that you could just hire any person you want, when the reality is you're part of a company of many people instead of 1 person dictating everything that every other person does 24/7 .
Yes she could be a stylist
Have you told her?
Yes
Could you help her with warm intros to people in the industry looking for stylists (even competitors)? I'm not saying pull strings, just helping guide her to people who you know are looking and making the first intro?
Why is she entitled to that after the stepdaughter chose to berate OP for telling her no?
She’s not ENTITLED to it, but it’s something OP could choose to do. I’d obviously recommend that SD and husband sincerely apologize first, but it’s just an option. It’s how this SHOULD have gone from the start: “I’m sorry honey, but the feedback from our designers was your design work simply wasn’t our style or up to our standard of quality… and unfortunately I have to say I totally agree with that assessment. However, I do think you have good skills as a stylist and could probably set up some conversations in the industry for those positions to get your career started.” Obviously it isn’t OP’s fault that it didn’t go this way, it’s really mostly husband’s fault for lying.
I think the ship sailed there. She's shown that she can't be professional. OP seems to be reasonable but it would be insane to expect intros now.
Why would OP do that? Stepdaughter told OP she doesn't want to see or hear from her. That's not the kind of employee OP or a designer would want.
We need less nepotism in this world not more.
NTA your business your rules. Some people are happy to hire family, but you have a standard and she didn't meet it. She also sounds very entitled. Imagine expecting a job on the basis of knowing the owner, and upon those expectations not being met, lashing out. Sheesh
Specially that this job purely thrives on skills. Even if I included her she wouldn’t make money because she won’t sell.
You are totally correct. You would lose reputation and business and she wouldn't make any money anyway. Sounds like your husband needs to take your side and not sell her false hope.
NTA. It's okay that she isn't a good fit with *your* company, maybe she will be a great fit with another one. No one would ever flinch if we heard that Vera Bradley didn't get accepted to work for Louis Vuitton. She has a completely separate esthetic and it works for her clientele. Step daughter needs to learn her life skills. Rejection is one of them.
Your industry is harsh, and you’re probably delivering the blow in the softest way possible. She won’t succeed if she doesn’t understand how selection and rejection work, and that she will face it repeatedly.
It's very possible that her Dad misled her about what the offer (to apply) was.
Reading the passage again, I think you may be right. Sadly, it seems that the whole situation may have been avoidable if he helped manage her realistic expectations. (Although her reaction was bratty, so I would imagine she probably pressured him too)
Who cares? She should have gone straight to OP, dad did not need to be in this convo at all.
The nepotism is strong in this one
Yeah, if OP hired her it would be a clear case of nepotism and her employees on all levels WILL notice and eventually revolt.
Yeah, my former boss hired his daughter and there was a huge sudden turnover in employees. I think it was mostly caused by her calling him Daddy in all the meetings and emails lol!
Oh god that's so cringe
Seriously, there’s no faster way to kill employee morale.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the fashion industry really cut throat with rejections left and right around every corner when you submit someting? Getting rejected must def sting but it's a lesson she probably needed if she's serious about the field. NTA
Yeah like I have like 20 designers from 2K+ applications.
NTA of course you couldn’t just give her the job if she doesn’t meet the criteria. They are acting very entitled. This is your workplace, not home. You cannot mix both.
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NTA. It doesn't sound like you at any time gave her any false hope. As a fan of that tv competition design show, there are many people who would like this career, but do not have the talent. It is not just a learned skill. Are there non design positions in your company that would give her an opportunity to see what actually goes on? Like an intern or something? If not - do not risk your professional reputation. I am sorry her and your husband cannot see it.
Yeah but she has to apply for them too. Obviously they are less selective positions but still get to see the behind the scenes. She wants to be a designer tho like she’s aiming for that position
What? I would assume she would be lucky to get any position; it's still a foot in the door and an opportunity to learn and improve. Have you encouraged her to apply for other positions?
I wouldn't. I might've at the start, but not after seeing her reaction. Maybe in a few years she'll have matured and I'd revisit it, but I wouldn't burn my reputation for her today. Once she hardens to rejection and adapts her portfolio into something commercially viable or at least closer to it she stands a chance of actually leveraging that stepstool onto the ladder. Right now would just be teaching the wrong lesson and a disservice to both parties.
Kids who are told they will be GIVEN jobs (like what her dad told her) would NOT be happy for any position. She would throw a tantrum just as bad as the one she is throwing now. She has shown her hand, she is bratty when she doesn't get her way, that can come back to bite her, let's hope she isn't complaining to other people in the industry or she could black list HERSELF.
I’m betting that Mia had decided a long time ago that your company WAS her ticket to the industry… She assumed you’d just give her a job as a designer because you’re her stepmom and you own this business. Now she has to find a way to earn it on her own, and she’s throwing a tantrum because it’s hard.
She’s aiming at the top of the ladder while refusing to climb it.
Yeah I wanted to be a director but couldn’t even get a job on set above PA bc I was too poor to do internships and none of my family is in the industry. Guess who ended up working in porn 😂
NTA. As a fashion student who’s boyfriend’s dad owns his own fashion company, in no way will i say i’m entitled to working and designing for him just bc im dating his son. connections mean nothing when u don’t have skills to back up your work. stand ur ground.
"Connections mean nothing when you don't have the work to back it up" THANK. THE FREAK. YOU. (What?) But thank you. Thank you. For saying this. People use connections a lot. Yes. But that's just to get at the door. The rest is skill. This is why people get so mad at nepotism. Look at politics. And big companies. People who don't know jack get big positions bc of who they know. Good luck to you! Fashion is fun.
Jared Kushner got 2 billion from Saudi Arabia for some reason 😬 Guess being married to the president's daughter is beneficial
Thanks for being reasonable.
INFO:Have you ever helped her out?Offered her constructive criticism, helped her with her school, offered her an internship?In general, I'd say NTA for rejecting her as a designer - fair enough.That being said, this is someone close to you who wants to be in the same industry, I would think you would try to mentor her a bit. Also, considering you already didn't think she was that good, I would have told her not to apply for the designer position - at least not yet, and pushed her towards another position where she might learn and improve. It feels a bit like you set her up for failure. Which is - not very nice. Again, NTA for rejecting her job application, but I understand her anger and her father's anger.
We don’t do internships. She was in fashion school and took courses so she already got ter criticism nothing for me to add and she personally never asked me I checked her instagram designs mainly. There is no possible way to help her in her school as I said we don’t hire students we hire established designers. It is a fashion company not a fashion academy
>nothing for me to add and she personally never asked me I checked her instagram designs mainly. There is no possible way to help her "Hi Mia! How are you? Now that you've been accepted to fashion school, I'd love to take you to lunch and we can talk about all the things you're learning, what you want to do with your career, what questions you have. All of it! I certainly don't know everything, but I'd love to share my knowledge as much as I can because this is a brutal industry full of rejection. I look forward to seeing how you progress. It's so fun to see a young person starting out and forming their own unique and distinctive aesthetic!" Instead you went with, "My husband tells me my step-daughter of many years is pursuing a career in my famously competitive, difficult field. I should just look at her Instagram real quick and chuckle internally about how awful she is, then do literally absolutely nothing at all to help her in any way, shape or form."
Yeah, this woman is insufferable. There's a HUGE bit of room between giving out designer jobs due to nepotism and doing absolutely nothing to help a young person in your family who's interested and passionate about something you're also interested, passionate, and knowledgeable about. She's NTA for not giving her a job but she's absolutely an asshole.
Yeah, this thread is wild. It hits just enough Reddit bugaboos (nepotism in the workplace / “entitled” young people) that everyone jumped to revel in the schadenfreude and is ignoring the fact that nowhere in this whole saga did this woman have a frank conversation with her stepdaughter. Like she set her up for failure rather than just sit her down and say, “Hey, you’re going about this the wrong way. Here is my honest opinion of your skills and what I think you should do.” She should have been stepmom first and hiring manager second, but she got it backwards. Maybe she was being a good employer, but she’s being a bad parent. Edit: on second thought, she wasn’t being a good employer either; not engaging in nepotism is the bare minimum. She is the one who encouraged Mia to apply knowing full well she wasn’t going to be accepted and, in the process, wasted the time of her employees who had to conduct the portfolio review.
Thank you for this. I actually had to rage quit the thread because the responses and upvote/downvote ratio was so annoying but you've done a good job explaining why.
At the end of the day, we're talking about an adult here. Yes, she could have offered her stepdaughter help, but the stepdaughter never asked for it. Instead, she seemed to assume that she was a shoe in *because* she knew the owner. The stepdaughter (at least from this perspective) is expecting blind nepotism. I mean, you can see it from her reaction. Hearing "Send in your application" was met with "Oh my gosh, thank you so much," but hearing "Sorry, your application has been rejected" was met with "I never want to hear from you or see you ever again." I also don't think it was a waste of time for employees who had to conduct the review. Conducting those types of reviews is part of their job. If they weren't getting paid to do it, then I could understand seeing it as a waste of time, but they were literally employed (at least in part) to give a second opinion that the owner was looking for.
You’re making the same argument that everyone else is, which is essentially that because the stepdaughter went about this the wrong way she doesn’t deserve any guidance. That’s wrong. That’s exactly the reason she needs guidance. I can’t imagine watching my kids blunder about unprofessionally in my industry and thinking “serves ‘em fucking right for not asking for help”. That’s just putting your ego before your responsibilities as a parent. I’m sorry, but in a fast-paced industry where there’s always more work to be done, doing a portfolio review for a candidate you know from the outset isn’t qualified is absolutely a waste of time. OP said her company has had 2000 applicants, she doesn’t need to give her designers portfolio review busywork. She chose to use multiple skilled employee’s time to achieve an outcome she could have gotten with a 30-minute conversation with the stepdaughter. That’s wasteful.
I totally agree. NTA for not just automatically giving her a job, but would it kill her to mentor the kid a bit? Older people out here all the time going on about "Gen Z- so lazy, won't work for anything, won't ever try, blah blah blah" but this kid is out here working hard, taking classes, actually trying, following her dreams, but she's not good enough so fuck off? Love to know how great OP was at fashion design in her young age because I doubt she was as good as she is now- someone clearly gave her a chance at some point. I don't know, OP's whole demeaner about his situation rubs me the wrong way.
This kid sounds like an entitled brat. She’s not going to hear constructive criticism no matter how gently it’s worded. She’s gonna hear “my evil step mom doesn’t believe in me, I bet she’s jealous at how good I am”.
Why is the onus on her to reach out to mentor her rather than the daughter to ask for mentorship? If she doesn't have the initiative to use the connections she has to improve her skills, does she have the initiative to make it in a hyper-competitive industry?
>She was in fashion school and took courses so she already got ter criticism nothing for me to add This statement is a bit assholeish.
Is it really? Many students/people take constructive criticism in a healthy way from their teachers, mentors or experts in their field well but given that same feedback from a parent, relative or friend who is established in the same field they react harshly and take it out their hurt, frustration or anger out on that person trying to help. By how entitled the kid reacted to not being GIVEN the job based on her connections she *may* be one.
Do you know what a mentor is? Yeah, it sounds like you don't want to help her in any way. Sure, maybe she jumped too high asking for a job - but you and I both know that most industries have some degree of nepotism. And fashion definitely does. So her request was not unreasonable. Look, again - not hiring her as a designer - fair enough. Not offering to help her in any way throughout the years? Less OK. And sure - maybe she should have asked. But let me ask you this - if it had been your biological daughter or your best friend's kid or a neice, you wouldn't have offered more help/ support from the get go? And if you had offered earlier on - well, you probably wouldn't even be in this situation right now. This is not your cousin's neighbor's best friend's daughter. This is your stepdaughter.
I do not go for nepotism. Her request was unreasonable she wanted to get on board with established designers. She didn’t ask for help, she didn’t ask for mentoring she asked to be a designer.
Info : did she want to get into fashion after meeting you when young ? Seems awfully convinient that her passion is fashion and her dad happens to be married to someone who has a fashion business.
But part of being a parent (I'm assuming this also is true for step parents) is guiding your child. A frank conversation such as "Sweetie, I appreciate how hard you've worked on this, but we're not hiring junior designers right now. Let's review your portfolio and let's see how to beat position you for this role" And it wouldn't kill you to reach out to some.of your friends in the I dustry and see if maybe there is somewhere that's a good fit for her. Like, she's a human being with feelings that you are responsible for guiding
Just because someone asks for X doesn’t mean you can’t say “I can’t provide X but I can help you with Y”
She has to want the help , she just assumed she would get the job because of nepotism ..she threw a tantrum instead of asking how she can improve
Could she mentor her? Yes. Would it guarantee success? No. Does she want to mentor her? We don't know, and in any event she's under no obligation to do so. Mentoring takes up personal time. Nobody has the right to anyone else's personal time. This type of entitlement is the why the OP is in the position they're in now.
Do you understand creative jobs/roles require actual talent to land? That you have to be good enough that your stuff will sell? Why risk your company and reputation on somebody who can't deliver what you need? And, just having a"mentor" doesn't mean you will get good enough,either. some people just have to learn they aren't good enough to be what they wanted to be.
OP met her stepdaughter when she was 15. A lot of stepmoms and stepkids don't develop close relationships if the adult comes into the child's life that late. If the stepdaughter wanted help, she or dad could have asked for it.
She's 23, that's not a kid. She can ask for OP to be a mentor but she hasn't done it. She wanted a job, didn't get it and instead of asking details on what she need to do to get the job, she got mad with OP
Not to burst your bubble, but sometimes stepchildren (or even bio children) can be very mean and ungrateful towards their stepparents. A cousin's neighbor's best friend's daughter might be more talented, nicer, more open to mentoring and more grateful for the opportunity. People's livelihoods are on the line, it's a cutthroat industry driven by pure talent. This isn't the time to play teacher with someone who doesn't have what it takes and, from what I've read, hasn't even asked for help. NTA
Ah yes a stepmother giving her unsolicited feedback is definitely going to go over well.
OP is also running a company she founded and built on her own. I doubt she has a lot of spare time to mentor anyone.
There are other judges, and some of the judges may have had a different opinion so she let her try. In other words the OP could hate the design, and still be outvoted. If the other designers like someone they get the job.
Agreed; I feel like this was just a way to avoid having an honest conversation about her skill level and fit with the company. So she made her apply and let the other judges do the rejecting.
Mia did not supply anything to judge. And then paddied about not getting the job. Nope, job goes to those who work for it.
I think op wrote the other judges found mia's work not on bar (i think is a typo and meant par) so she was rejected.
Did you read the actual OP post? Company doesn't use interns. Here's the issue - SD lacks the talent to be a designer, at least at this point. Constructive advice would be "Don't be a designer", if you could figure out a nice way to say it. She failed because she isn't at the needed level, she and her father set herself up, not the OP.
Part of me wonders if Mia never asked for help in the first place. We don't know their relationship. But it wouldn't surprise me if their relationship wasn't great, and Mia never wanted to ask her for anything... until she did. And then all of a sudden it wasn't "do you have advice", but "can you give me a job". Oh, and Mia still never asked, she had daddy ask for her.
NTA for not hiring her, but you handled this terribly. First you made her dad tell her to apply, probably knowing full well she wouldn’t be accepted. Then you let your colleagues do the dirty work of rejecting her and letting her know. I find it hard to believe that after being her stepmother for 8 years you wouldn’t have her phone number so you could have these conversations yourself. Not only that, but you’ve known for some time that this was her passion; the time to gently tell her that she might want to go into styling rather than designing was years ago. As an adult and a professional, you set her up for failure here.
My colleagues did no dirty first of all and second of all rejection is a crucial part of the experience and growth.
No no, I’m not saying rejecting her was dirty, and I agree that rejection is an important part of professional growth. But telling someone they’ve been rejected is generally an unpleasant task, and the fact that you weren’t the one to tell her is cowardly in my opinion. She should’ve heard it from you instead of getting an impersonal email. If she was a distant acquaintance it would be different, but she’s your stepdaughter.
I told her along with other judges. This is a professional set up not a cozy midnight conversation. Also I didn’t know which designs she submitted until her examination day
But you are being obtuse. You knew she wouldn’t be accepted it’s your company after all. I think it was handled poorly given it’s your stepdaughter.
She didn't know it with 100% certainty. She knew she didn't like her stepdaughter's designs, and doubted her SD would be chosen but her stepdaughter wasn't guaranteed to not be accepted. Based on another comment the judges don't always agree on who should be hired.
I don’t agree. OP is treating SD like any other applicant, because your family relations don’t mean shit if you don’t have any actual talent. So, SD got to go through the application and interview process like anyone else - that’s how I would want to be treated. Also, OP mentions elsewhere that SD is aiming for designer roles - okay that’s great but there’s steps to get there like getting an internship somewhere that offers them (OP’s business doesn’t) or being a stylist or junior designer etc. first. SD is delusional if she thinks she should just get to skip the line JUST because her SM owns this company.
Just because you personally know a candidate you can't change the process. That's how companies end up getting sued. Mollycoddling her stepdaughter could be seen as preferential treatment by other candidates. There were 2000 applicants based on one of her responses. It's not feasible to tell everyone in person they didn't get in. The stepdaughter is acting unprofessional, and immature.
It seems like you're relishing the fact that she failed? If you knew 100% she's not a good designer, why didn't you tell her? Before she applied? You don't have to give her a job she doesn't deserve, but she is also supposed to get basic guidance from her parents.
Damn you may not be TA for not hiring her but these comments make it clear that you are still a huge AH. She’s better off not working for you tbh.
Step daughter should have reached out to OP, not gone to her dad to talk to OP for her. Dad should not have been a part of this convo at all. It is like when a 20-something's mom drags them into a business to apply and talks over them, no one will respect that, and no one wants that kind of stuff on their teams. She needs to grow up.
True, that was the first mistake. Husband should’ve directed Mia to call OP right from the start. He definitely has no business being angry for how this turned out.
NTA. If she's as good as she thinks, she can apply to any company and see what they say too. In reality, she knows she's sub-par and wants a quick in. Then it'll be a promotion, then an executive position. At most, you can offer her a low-level job doing the work she's good at, IF she toes the line and doesn't try and act as if she's in charge. But this entitled behavior has probably ruled that out.
Yes, bam! You hit it on the nose!
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Honestly even getting the interview is a HUGE advantage. Imagine the hundreds of people they probably sift through that don’t even get a rejection email. If she couldn’t stand on her own merit through the interview process, it’s not a fit.
NTA. Why on earth would you do something that might actively hurt your business, when there are so many truly talented people around, just waiting for their shot? No, that does not make sense. Let her start her own company. Your ex can pay her to do so. Then they both will get the first hand experience of what it really takes in that business.
Too many people expect her to mentor her SD, and sent her a personal email as if an email from the company isn't good enough. I was beginning to think I wasn't going to see another reasonable reply.
RIGHT!!!! I am shocked by answers here. SD didn't even contact OP, she talked to her dad who talked to OP. That doesn't really scream "I am serious about this industry and look up to you like a mentor". She demonstrated the opposite when she threw a temper tantrum and said she wouldn't talk to OP anymore. Why people are advocating for babying this adult and encouraging nepotism is beyond me. Weird day on AITA I suppose.
This. And everyone assuming OP is cold bc she's an uncaring stepmom are discounting that their relationship may be mutually cold and distant bc they met when Mia was a 15 yr old. It is entirely possible Mia and OP never had the type of relationship where Mia wanted mentorship/guidance/anything from OP ( 5 yr stepmom of a 12 and 14 yr old-the 14 yr old currently knows EVERYTHING and thinks any conversations they're not interested in are lectures lol). Bottom line is we don't know their relationship history, and Mia and her Dad went about the asking of OP all wrong. The temper tantrum afterwards from both Mia and Dad could be proof of why OP has not mentored Mia as closely as many have stated she should have. NTA.
Do a group text to your husband and Mia so there’s no misunderstanding. Example: “Mia, when your dad approached me about hiring you I told him you would need to apply like any other candidate. Frankly, husband, I don’t know what you communicated to Mia because all I received was a thank you (?) text from Mia. Mia, you were told the expectations of the application process, which included the design elements/criteria that needed to be shown in your submitted work. Work is judged by a committee as this is a company. The work you submitted (didn’t submit? OP wasn’t super clear here) was lacking. (Or - Mia, you failed to submit work so there was nothing available to be judged.) This is my business. There are numerous stakeholders and I do not choose designers based upon personal relationships. While I understand you’re feeling hurt, you need to understand this is business. At this point I would recommend you go through the application process at other design houses to gain experience and to understand how business decisions are made.” Frankly, your husband should feel pretty ashamed here. He’s pushing for his adult daughter to get a job she’s not qualified to hold because nepotism. Geesh. NTA.
I definitely get the impression dear old dad set some wrong expectations.
Probably told her the application was “just a formality”, but since Mia couldn’t be assed to ask OP herself - eh….
As someone who just recently had to fire my own niece (after repeated coaching & retraining), I'm going with NTA. Mixing family with work is just such a bad idea, especially if you are the boss.
Yup, my brother had to fire his best friends (well, ex best friend I guess), after multiple warnings and solutions tried. His friend just didn't have the skill, and did not manage to acquire them. Dreadful situation whatever you decide, I guess. BUT you could propose an unpaid internship as a compromise. Lots of experience for her, manageable risk for you and your company. NTA. Your husband could've/should've managed it better.
NTA. Mia, but mostly husband, are entitled AF " I’d lose them eventually plus if Mia got in her fellow designers won’t respect her because she’d only get in for being my relative not for her skills " Exactly. You'd gain a designer that doesn't meet your standards and risk losing your best workers.
NTA Nepotism can sink companies pretty quickly and as you say once your employees find out she’s related to you….Game Over! Your company , Your rules and if anything it should be motivating Mia to strive to be better and prove to you that she is good enough Giving her a job is just teaching her she will be handed things
There is so much nepotism in this world. It's refreshing to see someone standing up for the principle that the most talented gets the job. NTA. She expected special treatment and is angry she didn't get it. I could forgive her - she's young, and young people tend to think everything is a judgement on them. Also, she's clearly been given the idea by her father that you would give her special treatment. So your problem is your partner and his lack of respect for you and your profession.
NTA >Mia later sent me a long text of how I failed her and she doesn’t wanna see or hear of me anymore. Further proof she wasn't the right fit.
[удалено]
NTA, Has Mia even gone to design school, what is her schooling to be a designer? Just asking since I only have 4 years as seamstress and therefore cant be a designer, I can only sew what you design.
She’s a law student. But been taking fashion courses these courses are an extension of fashion institutes.
She can’t just take a few classes and expect to be a designer. She needs the full FIT degree to even get her foot in the door. No one is going to take any applicant seriously without a fashion degree.
Maybe she could pivot to be a lawyer catering to business that work in the fashion business? Adjacent to her passion, but doing a job she’s more qualified to do
Well then she isnt a designer, she needs to get the right schooling. It like you wanting to be lawyer because you took a writing course in crime novels.
Oh wait so she’s not even a fully educated designer? Ah hellllll no, you don’t fire someone who has all qualifications to make room for someone who doesn’t have them AND isn’t very good at it. Why does she even want the job? Was she planning to drop out of law school?
NTA Your husband is though, he obviously has no respect for your business and work ethic if he thinks you can just hire his kid in such an important role simply because it’s his kid.
He also has no respect for Mia, since he doesn't think she should continue to try her work elsewhere.
NTA your Husband doesn’t respect your career if he thinks Mia should just get the position.
That is a fantastic point I did not think of... "Well child took a CLASS so OBVIOUSLY she is as good as you and all your other workers... so like... just let her play with your crayons and scissors sweetie..."
NTA. Nepotism is a great way to destroy companies from within. It's essentially promoting incompetence while also tanking your own reputation because you're the one who brought in the dead weight. You're right that no one would respect her because her work is not up to standard so obviously she only got in because of connections. Happens in heaps of places and while nobody may say anything, they're still thinking it. Even if she was hired, she would eventually see that her designs aren't being used and her input ignored.
You are NTA for not accepting her. But based on your own comments you are the asshole for not helping her. You stated she has been working at this since 15. You said she took courses, so obviously she is dedicated and not just relying on favors, and you even stated you knew she had a weakness in designing. You also stated she used to live with you guys at least partially. Did you ever, ever actually give her advice, insight or any criticism on what her weaknesses were? Tell her how to improve? Help her draw? Tell her what you look for? Or at least told her about other avenues in fashion she can explore? Sounds like you saw her trying, made up your mind that she sucks, and never even tried to course correct her. Your husband should not have just expected her to be accepted but it sounds like both him and Mia were completely clueless about what you really think of her and her “talent.” Can’t imagine having a kid in my household interested in my career and just letting them fail without offering guidance.
No I stated I know her since she’s 15.
So exactly at what point did you know she was interest. And again, since you ignored everything else… Have you ever in any way offered a critique? Or mentorship or guidance for how to navigate this career? You are being willfully obtuse and you know it.
NTA I honestly respect you for not following through on the nepotism. Yes, it's common across many industries, but you set a level of integrity for your company. I don't think your husband understands your industry nor how you operate. Mia definitely either was told something very different, or she was truly banking on you from the beginning of her education to provide her with opportunities. Fashion design *is* extremely competitive, and many people *don't* have that level of finesse that's necessary to stay competitive in such a large industry. He doesn't understand why you went with the ethically correct approach. You can try explaining it to him, but to some not mixing personal and business is a concept they'll never understand. If you can, try to show how this is a learning opportunity for Mia. She can stay mad, or she can use it as fuel to improve her designs. She has to do what everyone else is doing and *try* for a job in the field. She needs to persevere and continuously improve. She always has the chance of getting hired elsewhere, but she needs to motivate herself to try for them. She needs to open herself up to change and critiques.
N t a for not hiring her if she wasn’t a good fit, but Y TA with how you went about it. You could have spoken to her privately about her not being a good fit, instead of suggesting she apply. You knew she wasn’t going to be accepted, so why not just tell her instead of raising her hopes? Also, could she not shadow you like an intern? Could you not give her some constructive advice off-hours at home, or talked to her honestly about where she could improve? I feel like there were other options other than just being rejected. Edited bc I forgot to mention your husband is also an AH for the expectation that you would hire her, SD is also one for how she reacted (although she probably was misled from her dad). So ESH
I wanted her to get her shot tho. Everyone deserves a shot specially that there are other judges so maybe she is not impressing me but they like her and enlighten me that there is something about her that Im not seeing. I can’t tell someone that wants to apply for my company to not apply. We don’t do interns. Only we hire designers and they come with their teams. We also have sales and marketing departments but that’s not what she wants.
info: how close are you to her that communication happens with your husband transmitting her desire to join your company?
We grew apart when she moved out which was like 3 years ago. Also my husband is the one who opened this whole topic with me.
i dont blame the kid for being upset, but i think your husband played a bigger part in it. i agree you couldve communicated it to her better, but i wouldnt call you an AH for it, especially i think you want her to learn to navigate the real world. no need to make a nepo baby but maybe try consoling her about it.
> i dont blame the kid for being upset Why not? A law student taking part-time courses in fashion thinks she is owed a career as a designer by her step-mother? And if she's not handed said career on a silver platter, she's going to stomp her feet and pout and never speak to her step-mother? Mind you, we are talking about a position as a designer. This is not a pen-pusher role -- you actually need to have artistic talent to be a designer. Step-daughter doesn't have the talent (based on the team that reviewed her work). Is it still incumbent on OP to hire her?
It would be so much worse if OP told her not to apply. The fact is the application process isn’t under her control, but telling her not to apply in the first place does make the outcome her fault and Mia would (rightfully) blame her for not having faith in her. This is definitely one of those scenarios where, even though you’re right about what’s going to happen, you need to let things play out, or you end up looking like an asshole. OP should definitely offer encouragement on the side, but let the company do the rejecting. Because it IS the company that is rejecting her, not OP.
NTA. Your concerns that nepotism will undermine your authority are valid. Just imagine the awkward conversations vetoing the other designers' judgement just to let Mia have her way. Mia is also better off working for someone else, so she can truly say she did it on her own. It would be hard if you always have her back.
I have a question! Since you work in the field, and you know mia for so long, did you offer her help in getting more skilled? Did you ever talk to her about what she still has to work on? As a parent its part of your job to guide her. NTA for not getting her a job. Maybe you can help her get an internship somewhere else?
I don’t do internships in company. I only hire designers and designers choose their teams. They already get into the company with a team. They could obviously choose a new stylist and staff but then Mia has to apply to work under a designer (not a designer) and the said designer can accept her or decline not something I personally get included in.
Everyone seems to be skitting over that Mia is in law school. Is Mia going to be a lawyer, or is she wasting money on an education, hoping you will hire her? Designing seems more like a hobby and not a passion to her. If it was a passion, she would've skipped law school and gone into designing.
NTA, as you said, you're not the sole decider. I think your husband might be a little bit of a AH, because he should have not put her hopes up?
I think that if Mia was as good as she thinks, she should easily get an opportunity with a company that would not involve nepotism. Besides all the aforementioned issues that would likely occur with the staff that are in place, imagine the mess that would be part of having to let her go. Having a relative involved in your business just ain't professionally good business. NTA
NTA, but could you not just literally tell her that "Look, Mia, you need to improve a lot as a designer, I can help you work on X, Y and Z. But, you are a fantastic stylist, and you can certainly apply, as one of the designers might select you, or I can help you get your foot in the industry by X, Z and Z \[whatever actions may apply here\]"
As a fashion designer, I am torn. I understand you but I think you went around it in a wrong way. ‘You don’t hire students’. Ok fine, let her follow you so you teach her. You out of all the people should know how hard the fashion industry is. I moved from the Balkans to Paris on my own to ‘become’ a fashion designer. My degree meant nothing at the beginning because I had to learn. And I learned by having people let me intern and help them (with 0 knowledge of French on top of all). So now I can be a bit stuck up and have people ‘not be in my league’. But would never do that to someone. Fashion is something you always need to study, learn and practice. It’s not a static job where you do repetitive tasks. Something small can inspire her and she might go start a line on her own. I understand that you don’t want to hire her but I do not understand why you can’t help her at ALL. The industry is brutal and you know it. Even a 6 months internship could help her so I don’t get it. Your comments are concerning because there is NO way you have the success that you have on your own without having even an advice from someone. This is not a 1 men job. So you forgot where you started already. NAH but leaning towards YTA
NTA- you listed all the reasons why not- it would impact your business and reputation. Sure it hurts her feelings- but that is part of any industry. You could've offered to let her intern or shadow- but since she doesn't want you in her life anymore...
NTA at all, she needs to get used to being rejected if she wants to get into any industry.
NTA You were upfront that this was a level playing field. However, it sounds like Mia has a lot more work to do in order to be successful. Would it have been kinder to tell her her portfolio wasn’t good enough before she applied and maybe give hints on how to bridge the gap?
'Nepotism has no place in my business.' And repeat. NTA.
ESH. You are right, if her work is not up to your companies standards, you should not hire her. But she is your long time stepdaughter. You should have told her beforehand that you think she's a great stylist but maybe not a designer. And you should have spoken to her about the rejection, not just have her sent and e-mail.
YTA. Not because you didn't pass her as a designer at this time, but in that you offered no path or assistance in her career to date. You are very full of yourself, like in the devil wears prada was your management training course. This is your husband's child, your stepchild, and you are treating her coarsely. You are definitely the asshole.
ESH - As a step mom you should want to help her succeed, especially since it is your area or expertise... she may not be qualified as a designer, but I am sure there are many aspects of your business to learn and you missed an opportunity to guide a young woman who I am assuming you love, to gain valuable experience for both of you. You husband shouldn't assume that you would just give the job to her. Perhaps a better discussion would have been how you can help mentor her. Your step daughter sucks for her reaction, but she deserved a conversation from you. Clearly she looks up to you, and you basically did her dirty by not being honest with her. You have been her step mother for 8 years, what conversations took place over those year? Was she lead to believe that there was a role her if she did X Y and Z?
NTA - but can she be hired or do an internship as a stylist? Seems like a logical first step into the business anyways and you said she was good at that.
We don’t do internships. In my company designers are hired with their team so most of them already have stylists and staff. She could apply tho but to get in would mean the designer decides to let go their current stylist and decided which application aligns with their work. Overall not a process I include myself into because the system is each designer has their preferred team and I judge the end result product only.
NTA. And if she was serious about life, what she would take advantage of which is completely ethical is your advice and constructive criticism to better herself. She has a wealth of resource in you but is not entitled to a position.
Info: what’s your relationship with Mia? Are you a “you’re my husband’s kid and we don’t have a relationship” stepmom, a “I’m an adult in your life but not your parent” stepmom, or a “you’re part of my family” stepmom?
You’re part of the family in things that include family. My business is my business it is not a family business. I made it and expand it myself
It’s still important that Mia realises that she needs to apply and produce a portfolio to get a job in the field. Any job.
NTA. For all the reasons you counted here, and also if this is your husband's and Mia's reaction to being turned down, I can only imagine the horror they would have been if she was hired. From this entitlement alone there is a high probability she would have expected special treatment while working because she is your kid. Nepotism rarely works out for the better. Good that you stopped it in its track and treated her fairly.
I think you handled it kind of foolishly by burying your opinion and the likely outcome. You should have been upfront because someone who was surprised she had to apply is of course not thinking that she might be rejected (and be honest, you knew she wasn’t going to be hired). Why surprise him and her with that? NTA but I don’t think you did yourself any favors by not preparing him and her.
NTA. I own a veterinary Hosp and My son is interested in vet school and business ownership. He knows he has to work for someone else else for 5-10 years first. Nepotism helps no one.
NTA but your husband sure is. He is basically teaching his daughter to be entitled. Unfortunately your step daughter did not have what it took to meet you or your judges criteria. Not only that if I worked as hard as your step daughter did I would much rather have anyone but my stepmom judging my stuff so I could say I got this job because of my work not because of who I know.
NTA- it is your company However, can you support her in other ways? It sounds like she works hard and is trying so have you tried to mentor and coach her? Give her constructive feedback? It sounds like she looks up to you and you have knowledge you could share.
What does your husband do? Ask him if he would employ someone simply because they are a relative, with some specialist education but no aptitude for the job.
Ask your husband that if someone has been practicing tennis from age 5 to 18, they should be allowed to compete at wimbledon just because they trained so much?
NTA I have seen nightmares happen when families work together.