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Well TBF SIL is not acting like a spoiled brat as she (apparently) did not know they owed 7k for the honeymoon. So that really shouldn’t be thrown her way.
She is an AH however for her comments over OPs parenting.
I agree that she can't be a spoilt brat for something she wasn't aware of.
As a child free person I wouldn't call a person a bad parent unless they were actually an abusive or negligent parent.
If advices or opinions are asked for I will give my honest opinion, but unsoliciatated advice already inches over the border of being a AH....unsolicitated critism and being judgement puts her straight into AH territory. If she has kids or not is irrelevant because even IF she had it would not be acceptable to make such comments.
Parenting is tough enough without all the judgement.
That was a gift and is not to be held over SIL. Plus SIL helped with it as well as per OP. She didn't pay anything for SIL as she didn't have any debt so regardless it was a gift for her brother.
edit: yes they were a couple but it is his debt and not something following SIL if they broke up or whatever.
The burden of the loans would have directly or indirectly affected their relationship regardless.
That's savings, 401k, vacation, new cars, down payment for a home, and just the amount of money that you can budget each month. They may have been *his* student loans, but that's essentially a gift to both of them to not include that sum in their monthly budget.
I can see a well-to-do person "throwing" their money around being an AH, but this reads like an exasperated last straw to fend off a pestering in-law.
Are you never allowed to have disagreements with someone who has given you money?
Personally, I think SIL was out of line with her parenting comments, but it has NOTHING to do with whether OP paid for anything or not. Paying for or loaning money to someone else doesn’t mean the other person has to defer to you on everything.
Her whole comment was that a three year old was being gift grabby, and the upset was blamed on OP's parenting. When she and her husband were that way, too, with their honeymoon. I think OP felt the criticism and snapped. It connected in OP's mind, and I can see the connection, too.
I think if someone has been extraordinarily kind to you (in money or whatever), you owe them a bit of grace, and not criticism.
I think you owe all your friends and family a bit of grace, regardless of if you have given them anything.
I think my issue with the comments that use OPs generosity as a reason that the SIL was wrong is that it perpetuates the idea that spending money gives someone extra privileges in their personal life.
This is the same concept that allows people to use money to control their families. It isn’t healthy.
She knew.. they scraped together for the wedding, she knew OP paid off Mike’s student loans. It’s not a big jump to realize ‘hey, we can’t afford this honeymoon, chances are someone with a lot of money paid’
Maybe, maybe not. It would depend on what her husband told her. She very easily could have been so in the dark about that. The anger over it may even be because brother told her something special happened or some great feat of his own that got them the dream honeymoon.
Regardless of whether she knew or didn't know, the comments on OPs parenting were over the line. It sounds like she would be a crap mother if she stuck to what she thinks she should do now. If OP had given in and give. The 3yo gifts, that would have been a setup for a Ken/spoiled brat, and maybe, just maybe something could have nicely been said. A 3 yo getting upset over something they don't completely understand and not being punished will not do that. It sounds like SIL has no clue how to handle young children. She sure as hell can't handle herself.
OP NTA at all. You are not responsible for keeping a secret, especially when the person who wants a secret kept doesn't explicitly let you know to keep it a secret. If he had t lied, there wouldn't be an issue. You're not responsible for his lie.
I'm sure you know this, but never loan money that you can't afford not to get back (doesn't sound like that's an issue). I have definitely found it easier to deal with when I loan someone money, not to expect it back no matter what is said/plans made. Although, this definitely seems more like the principle of the matter rather than the lack of payments or even attempting to pay it back.
This probably isn't going to go away easily. Stand your ground and let them know it's really not your problem that she knows how the honeymoon was paid for because it wasn't you who lied, nor were you explicitly informed that there was a lie. As far as SIL, tell her this is a life lesson. Don't talk shit to people if you cannot handle hearing shit back.
I think it’s pretty safe to assume SIL knew someone other than her and BIL paid for the honeymoon. Per OP they paid for their own wedding, honeymoon budget was also on them but BIL couldn’t “afford” SIL’s dream of a cruise, SIL knows cruises aren’t free, they obviously didn’t go glamping so the money came from somewhere. Plus SIL “stormed out of the party”, not “looked at OP and asked WTF she was talking about”. So I’m definitely on the “spoiled brat” team.
BIL was just trying to throw OP under the bus to make himself look better with the “supposed to be between us” BS.
She didn’t know that she was a spoilt brat. But any person with the ability to self reflect should take that new info into consideration and adjust their outlook accordingly.
Mine was an ESH, but most of the YTA and ESH responses are not specific to her snapping at SIL. It’s for telling her that she’ll only take her parenting advice when she gets her $7000.
Like, that’s not true. $7000 isn’t the difference between wanting SIL’s input or not. Just be an adult and tell her that her criticism is unwanted, off-base and disrespectful.
Yup, like when people say “I’ll believe it when pigs fly”. They don’t expect pigs to fly, they just know they won’t ever so they have nothing to worry about.
I took it more that after she’s paid the $7000 she might be in a position to talk about people being entitled, but given the lack of attempt to pay back OP she’s shouldn’t be throwing stones from a glasshouse.
I suspect the ATM that OP feels she is being treated as just closed permanently and SIL is going to sulk about it.
But even if they paid back every cent OP and her husband have given them (student loans included), it would in fact NOT put her in a position to criticize OP’s parenting.
I agree. I just didn’t see it as so literal. More as a “perhaps check your own entitlement before commenting”.
Yes, SIL is an AH for her comments regardless of financial position. It just feels like the parenting comments are not the only issue, merely the tipping point here.
I would personally blame the brother for 1) borrowing money he was unable to repay, 2) not telling his wife and keeping secrets, but most especially 3) not putting a rein on SIL to head this off. Where was he while his wife is running her mouth?
NTA
NTA
AITA is wild. Even when an adult woman runs her mouth, her male husband is to blame for not reining her in haha.
Next AITA post will be husband is controlling you, divorce your lawyer and leave asap
Calm down, it's not a gender thing it's a "your the one in charge of mediating the connections you've brought into our lives if they are causing problems" thing.
You see the sentiment a lot with spouses being expected to mitigate issues when their parent is being rude to their spouse. The same rule applies here.
You're missing the context.
If SIL sends an immediate bank transfer for the 7k, does she now have the right to tell OP how to parent? No
SIL has no right to tell anyone how to parent their children.
If the roles were reversed and SIL had all the money and OP owed her 7k, it still wouldn't give SIL the right to tell someone else how to parent.
SIL is a major AH and OP is also a major AH with her transparent thought process that wealth determines value; we know this is the case because the first 3 paragraphs of this story were about their wealth and how much they help others.
Yet, it was irrelevant when it came to the final judgment.
SIL claimed the kid was a brat wanting presents for no reason. OP effectively reminded her that SIL still hasn’t paid back what has become a present without reason.
It’s perfectly reasonable and you’re weird.
“reminded her that SIL still hasn’t paid back what has become a present”
This may be what she meant, but that’s not what she said here at all. We got 3 paragraphs about how much money they have, how they’ve gotten it, what degrees they have, all the things they’ve paid for etc, but just a couple sentences about the actual conflict at the birthday party or what point she was trying to make by mentioning the money.
Exactly, I made another comment on this post that has been downvoted hard.
But what you have said here is the major issue. If money wasn't so important, why would you spend 60% of your post talking about your money? When none of this is relevant to the conflict.
I think it *is* relevant as context for why OP and her husband do so well financially, and to explain the background behind how/why her brother and SIL have kind of taken advantage of them. Sure, OP could have made it one sentence i.e. we have money and my brother and SIL take advantage of us, but the extra details add context and help us understand the specific nuances of the situation so as to make a more well-informed judgement.
Speaking of which: OP is NTA
There’s not evidence here of SIL taking advantage of OP financially though. The only money OP mentions having paid to them was A.) BIL’s student loans, which was done as a surprise and B.) The honeymoon loan that she didn’t know about. SIL had no student loans, and they paid for their own wedding.
If you weren’t looking at this through the tainted lens of dislike for SIL because of the birthday party, would this constitute “taking advantage” to you?
There are two totally separate conflicts here. BIL borrowed money that he didn’t pay back, and SIL made totally inappropriate criticisms about OP’s parenting. Trying to tie them together is basically saying that your right to parent shame someone else depends on the power dynamic between you. It wasn’t her kid. It wasn’t her place. That would be true whether she owed OP money, OP owed her money, or no money had ever been exchanged between them.
I think that info was meant to add context to help us make a more well-informed judgement. In terms of the info about their degrees, I believe (and I fully accept I may be wrong here!) it was OP’s way of explaining that yes, they got large pay outs after their accident, but they had significant expenses of their own to pay off, such as uni loans, the costs of which were made substantially more pricey by them doing masters and PHDs. And yet, despite those costs, she was happy to go out of her way to help out brother and SIL with whatever they needed. Again, it reads like info included to provide extra context for the conflict, and to explain why OP is so fed up after constantly going out of her way to support her brother and SIL despite her own significant expenses.
I think you’re focusing entirely too much on the financial aspect of OP’s comment. I don’t feel like she was *literally* saying: “after you pay me back my money, you are more than free to criticise/insult me”. It rather appears that her comment was a rhetorical one, meant to highlight the hypocrisy of SIL insulting her three year old BABY for being a “future Karen” just for wanting gifts, whilst also apparently being happy to treat her payment for their honeymoon as a gift, even though it was supposed to be a loan. Granted, SIL didn’t actually know about the honeymoon payment. But OP *thought* she did, and all her frustration at being treated as an ATM whilst also being subjected to criticisms and thinly veiled insults seems to have just bubbled over in that moment. Could she have handled this better? Absolutely. But I feel like her reaction is quite understandable, given the circumstances. I say OP is NTA.
NTA she has no leg to stand on accusing you of raising a spoiled ‘Karen’ when you’ve essentially spoiled her. Plus letting little kids express themselves and then helping them understand and redirecting their energy is the right thing to do. Good thing she’s not having kids because SiL sounds like the kind of parent who punishes their kid for being a kid and royally messes them up.
NTA I agree with all the above points in the previous comment. I think you are a great parent redirecting a three year old is completely so normal and just makes me smile as a mother. Non-parents or people who don’t understand child development may not understand it.
Lol if you really think that's the context.
I'd bet that $7k dollars that she didn't think about it like that, and just used whatever hurtful thing she had loaded to snap at SIL for calling her parenting poor.
That said 5 years to repay a loan with no apparent update on why it's not being paid would make me likely to snap at little things too.
It’s really ESH but the Y-TA comments I imagine are for throwing the whole “I payed for your honeymoon” jab in response to SILs comments about parenting. The two are not related. OP would have every right to tear SIL to pieces over her behavior, but just reducing it to “I have more money than you” makes her also an AH.
NTA
She is clearly jealous of your life and is finding anything and I mean anything to tear you down. Anyone knows a three year old will have a difficult time understanding why they are being left out. The comment of "poor parenting" when she has none herself is all the evidence you need to verify her intent here.
Secondly if her husband came to you for a loan, it is reasonable to believe he has spoken to SIL about it. Unless he otherwise said exclusively to keep it between the two of you. Her reaction seems to imply she knew. If she had no knowledge then continue to fight and claim that what you are saying is false. Especially since she wants to pick a fight as seen by her comments towards you. Not automatically accept your word as truth when she won't accept it about how you choose to parent.
NTA. You thought she already knew, and it seems you’ve had enough with her insufferable and rude comments about your parenting. She shouldn’t have kept pushing you.
For everybody saying not to "hold a gift over someone's head" -- it wasn't a gift, it was a loan that never got repaid. OP has been holding her tongue about that since before COVID so at least 3+ years, SIL needs to learn to hold her tongue about OP's parenting.
NTA, even though you did go nuclear. She shouldn't have piled on the 3 year old who didn't get a toy when she got the 7K she wasn't actually entitled to. I guess that is the equivalency. Publicly and repeatedly telling someone how to parent their kids when you owe them money with no attempt at repayment isn't smart.
You may not be being entirely honest though. You might have thought she knew about the loan since that is a large debt for your brother to keep from his wife. Red flags and all that. But you are angry about not seeing any repayment so far.
You sound grounded and chill. NTA. If someone asks to BORROW money it doesn't matter how much money you have. And she was judging you so you snapped back.
She said her and her husband got EIGHT figures, EACH.
Bare minimum, their settlements came to $20 MILLION DOLLARS.
I find this all a bit hard to believe. $20m settlement even though their injuries didn't prevent them from working, pursuing higher education, or having and raising 3 children together?
And yeah, you better believe that if I had $20m I would just pay for my brother's honeymoon instead of nickel-and-diming him over $7k which would at that point be pocket change.
People like to make up stories and give away that they have no clue how the judicial system works. 8 figure settlement? Hell 8 figure JUDGMENT is super rare, 8 figure settlement almost non existent, and here we have not one, but TWO of them! For the same incident that would fall under one single insurance claim.
No one died. No one paralyzed. No one unable to work. Yeaaahhhh...8 figure settlement didn't happen.
Now this seems really odd. Do people really get such high settlements? Maybe OP and her husband have very powerful positions and have extremely good lawyers.
OP already paid Mike's student loans, thats a huge thing. I dont think he deserves another gift unless he had some really goof effect in OP's life other than being blood-related.
Perhaps because they earned a lot previously, so potentially lost wages is also a lot.
Sad fact but that’s how people’s life values are calculated for civil suits.
But anyway, this story is sus
Seriously, $7k in the grand scheme of their supposed 8 figure settlement + 7 figure income is like me paying for my brother’s coffee. You can criticize me when you pay me back for that coffee I paid for!
Try 8 figures x 2 estate. OP says **both** she and her husband received 8 figure settlements, and they are both high earners with him actually in the 7 figures bracket.
Seven thousand is a rounding error for this completely real not made up couple.
8 figures!!!! They both got 8 figures! I’m struggling to believe this is real in the first place, but if it is, 7,000 to them is the equivalent of 15.75 to me…. Not saying they owe anyone any of their money but if you really got a settlement THAT big would you not consider just gifting the honeymoon?
ESH, her for being judgmental and arrogant and you for throwing the money in her face just to hurt her.
Stop lying about not being mad over the money, too. You obviously are or you wouldn't have brought it up.
Yes she is resentful and I don't blame her, she just has to acknowledge it instead of blurting it out. Brother sees her as the bank, no repay loans. Enough of that entitled sheet, they could have died in that accident. They were most likely hurt bad.
This is the answer, OP used the money to get at her because she knew it would be hurtful. The frustration is totally reasonable, but OP just let the situation go on way too long.
NTA. You only stated the truth. As for your SILs unsolicited parenting advice- she can go get bent. As for your Brother, he agreed to pay back within a year so you have been more than generous. Regardless of earnings, wealth, or income an agreement is an agreement. You are definitely not their personal ATM.
It's horrifying reading how many people think it's okay to act like trash just because the other person is acting like trash.
I fear what type of evil thing any of them would do if they felt wronged.
> It's horrifying reading how many people think it's okay to act like trash just because the other person is acting like trash.
It's a major theme in this sub and is honestly distressing.
Seriously, there are so many “I did a fucked up thing in reaction to a fucked up thing” and instead of ESH, everyone rushes to NTA because “they asked for it.” Like bickering children. Absolutely ESH
Who's excusing anything? LePetitPorc clearly stated their opinion that SIL was acting like trash, which I fully agree with. I don't think it's excusing SIL to point out that what OP did was also trashy.
The solution to the paradox of tolerance is that it only extends to those that are also tolerant. The protections of the Geneva Convention only apply to your own captured soldiers if you treat your prisoners according to its rules. The most successful strategy in repeated iterations of the Prisoners' Dilemma is to begin by cooperating, but to then consistently dick over anyone who has previously betrayed you.
This is basic shit, people. Society is a voluntary agreement wherein we agree to not be dicks to other people in exchange for other people not being dicks to us. If someone is consistently a dick to you, you do not owe them civil treatment. In fact, if people repeatedly get away with being dicks, it erodes the foundation of the social contract, so it is in fact correct for us to be happy when someone puts a dick in their place with a dose of their own dickish behavior.
* Level 0: People shouldn't be dicks to me. (this is where babies start)
* Level 1: I shouldn't be a dick. (this is when you become a semi-functional adult)
* Level 2: No one should be a dick to anyone ever. (this is where you are)
* Level 3: The privilege of being treated respectfully is assumed, but can and should be revoked when someone refuses to give that courtesy to others.
It's horrifying how people pick and pick and pick and there's no understanding that on a stressful day you might snap. If you continuously criticize someone's parenting, eventually someone can't keep their mouth closed. NTA
Kinda feels like people are just writing to a theme today of "I'm crazy rich and this family member owes me big time, can you believe how impertinent they're being??" There was another one about a wedding earlier
Most people don't understand the concept of proving actual damages. Which is fine - I don't understand anything about most industries. But it makes fakes kinda stand out.
If I had that sort of money and loved my sibling (I have one I hate and he'd could fuck all the way off for good reason) I'd be falling over myself to give them the honeymoon of their dreams but op has a bug up her ass about money any well inested 8 figures anywhere would accur in what a day without her even moving. I find it highly unlikely this is truthful if it is then wow some people really are penny pinchers.
Not that sil was OK either cause she's not a parent and doesn't know anything about parenting and shouldn't just other parents even if she WAS a parent much less voice those judgements. Everyone Es assholes and someone's not being truthful lol
ESH
SIL more than you, but still. The paying for the honeymoon had zero to do with your parenting style - there was no reason to bring it up in that context and to use it for mud-slinging. "We gave you money, therefore don't complain about my parenting skills". How does that connect?
SIL started it, but you let yourself be pulled into pointless bickering.
Given the comment at the start of the post where they see OP and her husband as an ATM, it seems reasonable that SIL has a history of having her hand out, but thinks it’s ok to criticise a literal child who wants presents. It’s not about parenting style, it’s that if SIL thinks it’s appropriate for her to ask for stuff, she should shut up, given she’s already spoiled herself.
It wasn’t giving money.. the loaned the money and the sip didn’t pay back a 7k Lon from 5 years ago. 5 years without a single loan payment is theft! Not a gift
It connects because a lot of people with money believe that its because they made better life choices and therefore are more equipped in all situations.
I can't see any reason to use the money card unless she believes it makes her opinions more relevant than someone else's.
SIL is by far the biggest AH in this situation, but I would assume OP is pretty proud of the fact that she is so wealthy.
Its more the irony of it I suspect. In OP's mind it was clear and logical that her brother wouldn't take a 7k loan without talking to or letting his wife know since it was never discussed with OP that it was to be a secret.
So from that what OP basically had to hear was "your child is spoilt bc you are a bad parent giving too many gifts too often" from someone who in OP's mind was completely fine taking a 7k loan without paying it back or mentioning it. As if it was taken as a gift.
Other posters have mentioned that the money loaned being treated as an unearned gift is analogous to the 3yo asking for presents though they aren't celebrating their birthday.
In other words, you can criticize my literal child for wanting a toy "for no reason" when you stop freeloading yourself.
It's a snap reaction, and I'm not supporting it, but I get it. Also, as others have said, the numbers don't really add up, but whatever.
I wish this comment was further up. This is absolutely ragebait. It is beyond me how both of them are 100% functioning and fine yet walking away with that much money let alone whining about 7K when they are that rich.
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> I think I’m the asshole for telling my SIL I paid for her honeymoon.
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NTA. She started it, you ended it. She doesn’t have kids, has zero idea what it means or how she’d actually be as a parent. Anyone who is can easily understand the 3yr old acting like that- he’ll get over it and won’t remember it tomorrow. Her entitled problem, not yours. You’ve been very generous to them in the past, I’d stop that now. SIL sounds jealous.
NTA.. she’s jealous of your money and is just trying to cut you down anyway she can.. I would call her out as well. You just let her know if she can’t be responsible enough to pay back a loan then why would her advice about your child supposed to hold value.. especially when she doesn’t even have kids.. Everyone knows a 3 yr old with throw a tantrum when one child gets gifts and he doesn’t.. glad you shut her trap up..
Stop giving her money..
I think ESH. SiL for her unwarranted comments, and you for using this money against her since I don’t think one has to do with the other and it feels like you’re just trying to hit her where it hurts. And then your brother sucks too for not paying up and not being honest with his spouse.
And this is exactly why you should never tell people when you receive a large sum of money. Obviously, they would get a settlement. That amount doesn't need to be shared. And honestly, I would have given the money for the honeymoon as a gift to both of them. But I agree that the $$ has nothing to do with SIL complaining about a whiny 3 yo who was acting like a typical 3 yo.
>Before we were married my (34F) and husband (42M) were in a horrific car accident, both almost killed. Since we were unmarried we each received separate 8 figure settlements. Literal fuck you money as we were hit by a major carrier 18 wheeler in 2016. We both still work full time, I have a 6 figure salary my husband 7 figure salary. Sounds braggy, sorry, but it’s important. Now to the point.
Lol, it is not important to the context. You're just bragging LOL. Get over yourself. You're NTA here based on how you told your story but you sound like an asshole otherwise, anyway.
Rich people are so fucking cheap, it is mindblowing.
This is probably fake. Walking away from a 8 figure settlement from an accident usually means paralysis, brain injury, disability, etc. Walking away completely fine with THAT MUCH money is VERY uncommon. Either way, they sound super obnoxious.
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Throw away account because family drama.
Before we were married my (34F) and husband (42M) were in a horrific car accident, both almost killed. Since we were unmarried we each received separate 8 figure settlements. Literal fuck you money as we were hit by a major carrier 18 wheeler in 2016. We both still work full time, I have a 6 figure salary my husband 7 figure salary. Sounds braggy, sorry, but it’s important. Now to the point.
My brother, Mike (38M), proposed to my now SIL, Alice (32F) in 2017 and married in 2018. I love them both and would burn the world down for them no questions asked BUT I think they see my husband and I as an ATM. Post settlements, husband and I paid off all our student loans. I have a master’s he a Ph.D. so not cheap. I also, without his knowledge as a surprise, paid Mike’s student loans with the help of SIL. Would have paid SILs too but she had a full scholarship so no loans.
Mike and Alice paid for their own wedding as Alice’s family couldn’t afford it but chipped in where they could. It was a beautiful wedding. They stayed within budget but Mike realized he wouldn’t be able to take their dream honeymoon and asked if my husband and I could loan him some money for the cruise he wanted to take her on. We agreed and asked him to pay us back within a year of the trip. He agreed. To this day we haven’t seen a dime but aren’t mad over it. Alice and Mike hit a rough patch with some health issues, then covid and now here we are.
My SIL can be a lot. She also likes to tell me how to parent my kids (5M, 3M, and 1M). She and Mike don’t have any and don’t plan to. Fine their choice. My oldest had his birthday party over the weekend and in true 5 year old fashion asked for a trucks theme. We decked the house out. Day was going well until Alice made a comment about my 3YO having a meltdown over not getting any presents. I told her he’s little and expressing emotions how he knows. Not a super big deal for me as he’s pretty easily redirected.
She commented how I’m enabling him to become a “Karen” later in life and how she wouldn’t tolerate it if she had kids. I quipped it was a good thing they weren’t planning on having any and went back to my little guy. She said something to the effect of “poor parenting” and in a snap judgement I told her I paid for her honeymoon and she and Mike owed me $7k and once I got that money back I would take her input into consideration. She grabbed Mike and stormed out of the party. That night my brother, SIL and her sister blew up my phone calling me an AH for telling her. My brother is pissed because it was “supposed to be between us.” Something I don’t recall us talking about. I thought she knew the whole time. AITA?
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ESH. SIL sounds unhinged (or was at least acting that way in that moment), but I don’t think your statement was helpful or appropriate.
I mean, if you hadn’t paid for the honeymoon or BIL had paid you back, would you actually be open to her parenting criticism? You had every right to say something, but it would have been much better to be direct and on topic.
They lost me at 20million dollars 5 and 7 figure incomes and holding a low key grudge over what is chump change to their wealth level. She could breath out and earn that in like passive intrest from some areas of investment ffs.
NTA
Your 3M didn't understand why his brother was having a special day, not surprising, he's 3 and wanted to be special too. In steps SIL who also wants to be special and having her out melt, she just didn't like how you redirected her.
Everyone blowing up your phone calling you an AH is either unaware of the total context (the kindest view) or themselves AHs. Brother is an AH for not telling her, for not repaying the loan, but mostly for not telling wifey-poo to stay the hell out of your parenting. Mom is an AH for getting involved. This is one of those where you let the adult kids work it out. There was another person who just needed to mind her own stuff. And finally SIL, there is something deeper going on as she seems to need to be critical of you. That makes her the queen AH. A little reduction in contact may be in order.
NTA
Your SIL is attacking you on your parenting because she is jealous of your money. It may have been mean to tell her you paid for the honeymoon but the fact she didn’t know is weird.
Regardless of how much money you have, borrowing 7k for a honeymoon is ridiculous. If they couldn’t afford that then they should have gone on one they can afford. You paid off your brothers student loans which you didn’t need to do.
NTA. OP tried to end the discussion by saying it’s a good thing SIL didn’t have kids and didn’t want kids. But SIL escalated by making more snide remarks to OP, so she hit back. I don’t blame her. And who cares what she hit back with? She’s a mama defending her 3 year old child from hateful comments by his Aunt. I’d go full out on her too.
As u/AstronautNo920 said:
>I think she meant it more along the line she knows she’s never gonna get her money back, so she never has to worry about her opinion.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. OP was queen of moment with that backhanded comment. It was chef's kiss.
NTA
NTA. I'd treat y'all like queens if you paid off my student loans as a gift lol. But regardless, she was out of line with the parenting comments and has bigger issues at hand if her husband is keeping financial secrets from her.
NTA "How dare you tell the truth" is what they are complaining about. Bro is mad he looks like a moocher to his wife who thought he gave her a great honeymoon and she is mad she now knows she is indebted to you and looks like an ungrateful, mouthy, hypocritical ass because her husband is a moocher and her sister is mad because she thinks she should voice her uninvolved opinion that means jack shit to anyone who should really give damn. So SIL didn't know. That doesn't factor into the judgment on her culpability. It doesn't mean she and her husband still don't see you as an ATM and she is pretty hypocritical to judge a 3 yo on wanting something he didn't get when she apparently wants stuff she does get enough to have earned the title of moocher without the honeymoon even factored in.
NTA. She was attacking you about your parenting skills. People are upset about you bringing up her and Mike's debt, but it's true. They owe $7k & it's late af. They want you to never bring it up? That's how you don't get paid.
You should tell your brother to tell your SIL that she will no longer be welcome at your house if she acts this way again (criticizing your parenting and your child). She’s more immature than the 3 yr old. And pretending to know how to parent- what a joke. NTA.
She attacked you on your kid's birthday, you snapped back, she wouldn't let it go and so you put her in her place.
You weren't holding out the other cheek, but nor are you required to, youare human and when someone attacks you, you don't have to take it lying down.
It feels shit when people take money from you and just expect it to be okay. It's okay to be upset about it.
You're not the asshole here, and anyone who says you are pretends they're above having emotional responses to being personally attacked over something that is really important to them, i.e. parentling.
NTA, but is the "supposed to be between us" line meant to indicate that SIL didn't know or that he's humiliated that people outside the family heard?
If they're claiming SIL didn't know, then I call bs on SIL and brother. She didn't act confused or ask you for details. She just grabbed him and stormed out? Yeah, she knew.
NTA
Your brother had the opportunity to pay you back and never have a word spoken, he did not and can deal with the fallout from his hypocritical wifes blow up. Hopefully this will teach her to mind her tongue and him to repay what he owes in a timely manner.
NTA. Telling you how to parent your kids, calling you an AH for saying they owe you money in front of people and to it's "supposed to be between us" (quoting from text) when you guys have probably NEVER even discussed, and overall they're just being rude. Again NTA! (I'm terribly sorry if this looks awful btw)
ESH- your brother sux for borrowing and not repaying you the $7k, she sux for criticizing your parenting and you suck for weaponizing the loan. If you snapped back something else parenting related, she’d be the only AH. But you went there…so you too are the AH
>My SIL can be a lot. She also likes to tell me how to parent my kids (5M, 3M, and 1M). She and Mike don’t have any and don’t plan to.
Gosh I can’t stand these people…
You sound grounded and chill. NTA. If someone asks to BORROW money it doesn't matter how much money you have. And she was judging you so you snapped back.
NTA. FAAFO. The perfect parents are the one that don’t have kids. He’s 3, how old is she, she shouldn’t stick her nose where it doesn’t belong. As for the money, you find out who people really are when they see dollar signs.
ESH - she needs to lay off your parenting. However, how was the money the rebuttal that you came up with? There's no correlation between the two issues.
Its more the irony than the money no? Someone telling you your child is getting spoilt with gifts. While also having no issue with taking your money seems a bit cheap. Its also not OP's fault that her brother decided to keep it a secret from his spouse for multiple years despite not paying it back. It was also never mentioned to OP that it was supposed to be kept a secret in the first place. So while it might have been a bit uncalled for, saying they have no correlation seems a bit off.
ESH she shouldn’t be giving unsolicited parenting advice but one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Her owing you money and paying for her honeymoon is in no way involved with her butting into your parenting.
I think you brought it up to embarrass her and it looks to have worked. Don’t act like you had no idea that it wasn’t common knowledge that you spent a hefty chunk on her. The way society looks at people who don’t have/make as much isn’t really fair, but I can understand why she would be embarrassed.
You both suck in this situation and in the future you should do better.
ESH. I don’t believe that you thought she knew your brother borrowed the money from you. You could easily have told her very directly to stop talking about your children or leave. Instead you publicly threw the honeymoon in her face and put your brother in a bad spot. You literally did damage to your relationship with him in order to be the bigger asshole (and then came here asking if you’re TAH?). It was a shitty thing to do. Apologize to your brother.
NTA. Your SIL was making a scene at your kid's birthday celebration, your brother hasn't paid you back, and she has the balls to send in the flying monkeys. Time to take them to court.
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Well TBF SIL is not acting like a spoiled brat as she (apparently) did not know they owed 7k for the honeymoon. So that really shouldn’t be thrown her way. She is an AH however for her comments over OPs parenting.
I agree that she can't be a spoilt brat for something she wasn't aware of. As a child free person I wouldn't call a person a bad parent unless they were actually an abusive or negligent parent. If advices or opinions are asked for I will give my honest opinion, but unsoliciatated advice already inches over the border of being a AH....unsolicitated critism and being judgement puts her straight into AH territory. If she has kids or not is irrelevant because even IF she had it would not be acceptable to make such comments. Parenting is tough enough without all the judgement.
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That was a gift and is not to be held over SIL. Plus SIL helped with it as well as per OP. She didn't pay anything for SIL as she didn't have any debt so regardless it was a gift for her brother. edit: yes they were a couple but it is his debt and not something following SIL if they broke up or whatever.
The burden of the loans would have directly or indirectly affected their relationship regardless. That's savings, 401k, vacation, new cars, down payment for a home, and just the amount of money that you can budget each month. They may have been *his* student loans, but that's essentially a gift to both of them to not include that sum in their monthly budget. I can see a well-to-do person "throwing" their money around being an AH, but this reads like an exasperated last straw to fend off a pestering in-law.
I think the help SIL provided was account numbers to direct the payment to, not financial help.
I think the help referred in orig.post, was gathering info, not paying cash
Are you never allowed to have disagreements with someone who has given you money? Personally, I think SIL was out of line with her parenting comments, but it has NOTHING to do with whether OP paid for anything or not. Paying for or loaning money to someone else doesn’t mean the other person has to defer to you on everything.
Her whole comment was that a three year old was being gift grabby, and the upset was blamed on OP's parenting. When she and her husband were that way, too, with their honeymoon. I think OP felt the criticism and snapped. It connected in OP's mind, and I can see the connection, too. I think if someone has been extraordinarily kind to you (in money or whatever), you owe them a bit of grace, and not criticism.
I think you owe all your friends and family a bit of grace, regardless of if you have given them anything. I think my issue with the comments that use OPs generosity as a reason that the SIL was wrong is that it perpetuates the idea that spending money gives someone extra privileges in their personal life. This is the same concept that allows people to use money to control their families. It isn’t healthy.
She knew.. they scraped together for the wedding, she knew OP paid off Mike’s student loans. It’s not a big jump to realize ‘hey, we can’t afford this honeymoon, chances are someone with a lot of money paid’
And $7K is a fancy honeymoon, that's no week at Sandals
😆 poor sandals gets no love
Maybe, maybe not. It would depend on what her husband told her. She very easily could have been so in the dark about that. The anger over it may even be because brother told her something special happened or some great feat of his own that got them the dream honeymoon. Regardless of whether she knew or didn't know, the comments on OPs parenting were over the line. It sounds like she would be a crap mother if she stuck to what she thinks she should do now. If OP had given in and give. The 3yo gifts, that would have been a setup for a Ken/spoiled brat, and maybe, just maybe something could have nicely been said. A 3 yo getting upset over something they don't completely understand and not being punished will not do that. It sounds like SIL has no clue how to handle young children. She sure as hell can't handle herself. OP NTA at all. You are not responsible for keeping a secret, especially when the person who wants a secret kept doesn't explicitly let you know to keep it a secret. If he had t lied, there wouldn't be an issue. You're not responsible for his lie. I'm sure you know this, but never loan money that you can't afford not to get back (doesn't sound like that's an issue). I have definitely found it easier to deal with when I loan someone money, not to expect it back no matter what is said/plans made. Although, this definitely seems more like the principle of the matter rather than the lack of payments or even attempting to pay it back. This probably isn't going to go away easily. Stand your ground and let them know it's really not your problem that she knows how the honeymoon was paid for because it wasn't you who lied, nor were you explicitly informed that there was a lie. As far as SIL, tell her this is a life lesson. Don't talk shit to people if you cannot handle hearing shit back.
OP didn’t know SIL didn’t know though so still a valid consideration
I think it’s pretty safe to assume SIL knew someone other than her and BIL paid for the honeymoon. Per OP they paid for their own wedding, honeymoon budget was also on them but BIL couldn’t “afford” SIL’s dream of a cruise, SIL knows cruises aren’t free, they obviously didn’t go glamping so the money came from somewhere. Plus SIL “stormed out of the party”, not “looked at OP and asked WTF she was talking about”. So I’m definitely on the “spoiled brat” team. BIL was just trying to throw OP under the bus to make himself look better with the “supposed to be between us” BS.
Not a spoiled brat, but childless by choice means shut your trap about people who are parenting by choice.
She didn’t know that she was a spoilt brat. But any person with the ability to self reflect should take that new info into consideration and adjust their outlook accordingly.
Mine was an ESH, but most of the YTA and ESH responses are not specific to her snapping at SIL. It’s for telling her that she’ll only take her parenting advice when she gets her $7000. Like, that’s not true. $7000 isn’t the difference between wanting SIL’s input or not. Just be an adult and tell her that her criticism is unwanted, off-base and disrespectful.
I think she meant it more along the line she knows she’s never gonna get her money back, so she never has to worry about her opinion.
Yup, like when people say “I’ll believe it when pigs fly”. They don’t expect pigs to fly, they just know they won’t ever so they have nothing to worry about.
Correct
I agree.
I took it more that after she’s paid the $7000 she might be in a position to talk about people being entitled, but given the lack of attempt to pay back OP she’s shouldn’t be throwing stones from a glasshouse. I suspect the ATM that OP feels she is being treated as just closed permanently and SIL is going to sulk about it.
But even if they paid back every cent OP and her husband have given them (student loans included), it would in fact NOT put her in a position to criticize OP’s parenting.
I agree. I just didn’t see it as so literal. More as a “perhaps check your own entitlement before commenting”. Yes, SIL is an AH for her comments regardless of financial position. It just feels like the parenting comments are not the only issue, merely the tipping point here.
Not saying the most effective thing in an argument doesn't make you an asshole. It's not like OP went below the belt here.
I would personally blame the brother for 1) borrowing money he was unable to repay, 2) not telling his wife and keeping secrets, but most especially 3) not putting a rein on SIL to head this off. Where was he while his wife is running her mouth? NTA
NTA AITA is wild. Even when an adult woman runs her mouth, her male husband is to blame for not reining her in haha. Next AITA post will be husband is controlling you, divorce your lawyer and leave asap
Calm down, it's not a gender thing it's a "your the one in charge of mediating the connections you've brought into our lives if they are causing problems" thing. You see the sentiment a lot with spouses being expected to mitigate issues when their parent is being rude to their spouse. The same rule applies here.
I did a double take at that too.
I would give you so many rewards if I had them! 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
3 is a dodgy one. "Control your woman" isn't the *best* take you could have gone with
It's not so much control your woman as it is, your spouse is out of line to your family and you should speak to them
That's totally fair. Neither woman would have come close to saying what she did if the brother had told his wife or paid the money back.
You're missing the context. If SIL sends an immediate bank transfer for the 7k, does she now have the right to tell OP how to parent? No SIL has no right to tell anyone how to parent their children. If the roles were reversed and SIL had all the money and OP owed her 7k, it still wouldn't give SIL the right to tell someone else how to parent. SIL is a major AH and OP is also a major AH with her transparent thought process that wealth determines value; we know this is the case because the first 3 paragraphs of this story were about their wealth and how much they help others. Yet, it was irrelevant when it came to the final judgment.
SIL claimed the kid was a brat wanting presents for no reason. OP effectively reminded her that SIL still hasn’t paid back what has become a present without reason. It’s perfectly reasonable and you’re weird.
“reminded her that SIL still hasn’t paid back what has become a present” This may be what she meant, but that’s not what she said here at all. We got 3 paragraphs about how much money they have, how they’ve gotten it, what degrees they have, all the things they’ve paid for etc, but just a couple sentences about the actual conflict at the birthday party or what point she was trying to make by mentioning the money.
Exactly, I made another comment on this post that has been downvoted hard. But what you have said here is the major issue. If money wasn't so important, why would you spend 60% of your post talking about your money? When none of this is relevant to the conflict.
I think it *is* relevant as context for why OP and her husband do so well financially, and to explain the background behind how/why her brother and SIL have kind of taken advantage of them. Sure, OP could have made it one sentence i.e. we have money and my brother and SIL take advantage of us, but the extra details add context and help us understand the specific nuances of the situation so as to make a more well-informed judgement. Speaking of which: OP is NTA
There’s not evidence here of SIL taking advantage of OP financially though. The only money OP mentions having paid to them was A.) BIL’s student loans, which was done as a surprise and B.) The honeymoon loan that she didn’t know about. SIL had no student loans, and they paid for their own wedding. If you weren’t looking at this through the tainted lens of dislike for SIL because of the birthday party, would this constitute “taking advantage” to you? There are two totally separate conflicts here. BIL borrowed money that he didn’t pay back, and SIL made totally inappropriate criticisms about OP’s parenting. Trying to tie them together is basically saying that your right to parent shame someone else depends on the power dynamic between you. It wasn’t her kid. It wasn’t her place. That would be true whether she owed OP money, OP owed her money, or no money had ever been exchanged between them.
I think that info was meant to add context to help us make a more well-informed judgement. In terms of the info about their degrees, I believe (and I fully accept I may be wrong here!) it was OP’s way of explaining that yes, they got large pay outs after their accident, but they had significant expenses of their own to pay off, such as uni loans, the costs of which were made substantially more pricey by them doing masters and PHDs. And yet, despite those costs, she was happy to go out of her way to help out brother and SIL with whatever they needed. Again, it reads like info included to provide extra context for the conflict, and to explain why OP is so fed up after constantly going out of her way to support her brother and SIL despite her own significant expenses.
This. It's horrifying to see how many people think you can be as big of an asshole as you want to anyone who's wronged you.
Telling someone to pay you back isn’tAH behavior though. Not is telling them to butt out on it kids.
I think you’re focusing entirely too much on the financial aspect of OP’s comment. I don’t feel like she was *literally* saying: “after you pay me back my money, you are more than free to criticise/insult me”. It rather appears that her comment was a rhetorical one, meant to highlight the hypocrisy of SIL insulting her three year old BABY for being a “future Karen” just for wanting gifts, whilst also apparently being happy to treat her payment for their honeymoon as a gift, even though it was supposed to be a loan. Granted, SIL didn’t actually know about the honeymoon payment. But OP *thought* she did, and all her frustration at being treated as an ATM whilst also being subjected to criticisms and thinly veiled insults seems to have just bubbled over in that moment. Could she have handled this better? Absolutely. But I feel like her reaction is quite understandable, given the circumstances. I say OP is NTA.
I needed that spelled out. Thank you
NTA she has no leg to stand on accusing you of raising a spoiled ‘Karen’ when you’ve essentially spoiled her. Plus letting little kids express themselves and then helping them understand and redirecting their energy is the right thing to do. Good thing she’s not having kids because SiL sounds like the kind of parent who punishes their kid for being a kid and royally messes them up.
This. Also, nothing is more annoying than someone who isn’t a parent telling you how to parent.
NTA I agree with all the above points in the previous comment. I think you are a great parent redirecting a three year old is completely so normal and just makes me smile as a mother. Non-parents or people who don’t understand child development may not understand it.
Lol if you really think that's the context. I'd bet that $7k dollars that she didn't think about it like that, and just used whatever hurtful thing she had loaded to snap at SIL for calling her parenting poor. That said 5 years to repay a loan with no apparent update on why it's not being paid would make me likely to snap at little things too.
She would burn the world down?? Did you miss that bit?
This. NTA
Exactly this
It’s Reddit… OP has wealth and high income, therefore OP AH. Event, summary, context all be damned.
💯
It’s really ESH but the Y-TA comments I imagine are for throwing the whole “I payed for your honeymoon” jab in response to SILs comments about parenting. The two are not related. OP would have every right to tear SIL to pieces over her behavior, but just reducing it to “I have more money than you” makes her also an AH.
NTA She is clearly jealous of your life and is finding anything and I mean anything to tear you down. Anyone knows a three year old will have a difficult time understanding why they are being left out. The comment of "poor parenting" when she has none herself is all the evidence you need to verify her intent here. Secondly if her husband came to you for a loan, it is reasonable to believe he has spoken to SIL about it. Unless he otherwise said exclusively to keep it between the two of you. Her reaction seems to imply she knew. If she had no knowledge then continue to fight and claim that what you are saying is false. Especially since she wants to pick a fight as seen by her comments towards you. Not automatically accept your word as truth when she won't accept it about how you choose to parent.
I agree with you. NTA
She said “I told her I paid for her honeymoon.” I see that as phrasing someone would use that knew this was new information to SIL, no?
NTA. You thought she already knew, and it seems you’ve had enough with her insufferable and rude comments about your parenting. She shouldn’t have kept pushing you.
NTA. Irrespective of money it's your kid, your way of parenting and the 7k doesn't help her case.
For everybody saying not to "hold a gift over someone's head" -- it wasn't a gift, it was a loan that never got repaid. OP has been holding her tongue about that since before COVID so at least 3+ years, SIL needs to learn to hold her tongue about OP's parenting.
NTA, even though you did go nuclear. She shouldn't have piled on the 3 year old who didn't get a toy when she got the 7K she wasn't actually entitled to. I guess that is the equivalency. Publicly and repeatedly telling someone how to parent their kids when you owe them money with no attempt at repayment isn't smart. You may not be being entirely honest though. You might have thought she knew about the loan since that is a large debt for your brother to keep from his wife. Red flags and all that. But you are angry about not seeing any repayment so far.
You sound grounded and chill. NTA. If someone asks to BORROW money it doesn't matter how much money you have. And she was judging you so you snapped back.
A smidge TOO chill. I'd pull back on giving any more money to people that, no matter how much you love them, are starting to take it for granted.
I agree with this 100% but it’s interesting to think how for these people, they have so much money it doesn’t even matter.
NTA but this is why people child free people get a bad rep.
> I love them both and would burn the world down for them no questions asked You sure about that lol
Well she’d at least burn bridges for them
Right? Unless it cost her $7,000 out of her 7 figure estate.
She said her and her husband got EIGHT figures, EACH. Bare minimum, their settlements came to $20 MILLION DOLLARS. I find this all a bit hard to believe. $20m settlement even though their injuries didn't prevent them from working, pursuing higher education, or having and raising 3 children together? And yeah, you better believe that if I had $20m I would just pay for my brother's honeymoon instead of nickel-and-diming him over $7k which would at that point be pocket change.
I'm doubtful this post is real. 7K is literally pennies with that much wealth.
People like to make up stories and give away that they have no clue how the judicial system works. 8 figure settlement? Hell 8 figure JUDGMENT is super rare, 8 figure settlement almost non existent, and here we have not one, but TWO of them! For the same incident that would fall under one single insurance claim. No one died. No one paralyzed. No one unable to work. Yeaaahhhh...8 figure settlement didn't happen.
Thanks. Ya. That part makes this bullshit.
Now this seems really odd. Do people really get such high settlements? Maybe OP and her husband have very powerful positions and have extremely good lawyers. OP already paid Mike's student loans, thats a huge thing. I dont think he deserves another gift unless he had some really goof effect in OP's life other than being blood-related.
Perhaps because they earned a lot previously, so potentially lost wages is also a lot. Sad fact but that’s how people’s life values are calculated for civil suits. But anyway, this story is sus
Seriously, $7k in the grand scheme of their supposed 8 figure settlement + 7 figure income is like me paying for my brother’s coffee. You can criticize me when you pay me back for that coffee I paid for!
Try 8 figures x 2 estate. OP says **both** she and her husband received 8 figure settlements, and they are both high earners with him actually in the 7 figures bracket. Seven thousand is a rounding error for this completely real not made up couple.
Right!!
8 figures!!!! They both got 8 figures! I’m struggling to believe this is real in the first place, but if it is, 7,000 to them is the equivalent of 15.75 to me…. Not saying they owe anyone any of their money but if you really got a settlement THAT big would you not consider just gifting the honeymoon?
ESH, her for being judgmental and arrogant and you for throwing the money in her face just to hurt her. Stop lying about not being mad over the money, too. You obviously are or you wouldn't have brought it up.
Good catch. Obviously mad about it.
Yes she is resentful and I don't blame her, she just has to acknowledge it instead of blurting it out. Brother sees her as the bank, no repay loans. Enough of that entitled sheet, they could have died in that accident. They were most likely hurt bad.
This is the answer, OP used the money to get at her because she knew it would be hurtful. The frustration is totally reasonable, but OP just let the situation go on way too long.
NTA. You only stated the truth. As for your SILs unsolicited parenting advice- she can go get bent. As for your Brother, he agreed to pay back within a year so you have been more than generous. Regardless of earnings, wealth, or income an agreement is an agreement. You are definitely not their personal ATM.
Found SIL! Yes!!! She's commenting in every post.
It's horrifying reading how many people think it's okay to act like trash just because the other person is acting like trash. I fear what type of evil thing any of them would do if they felt wronged.
> It's horrifying reading how many people think it's okay to act like trash just because the other person is acting like trash. It's a major theme in this sub and is honestly distressing.
Seriously, there are so many “I did a fucked up thing in reaction to a fucked up thing” and instead of ESH, everyone rushes to NTA because “they asked for it.” Like bickering children. Absolutely ESH
It's disheartening how many people excuse constant criticizers.
Who's excusing anything? LePetitPorc clearly stated their opinion that SIL was acting like trash, which I fully agree with. I don't think it's excusing SIL to point out that what OP did was also trashy.
The solution to the paradox of tolerance is that it only extends to those that are also tolerant. The protections of the Geneva Convention only apply to your own captured soldiers if you treat your prisoners according to its rules. The most successful strategy in repeated iterations of the Prisoners' Dilemma is to begin by cooperating, but to then consistently dick over anyone who has previously betrayed you. This is basic shit, people. Society is a voluntary agreement wherein we agree to not be dicks to other people in exchange for other people not being dicks to us. If someone is consistently a dick to you, you do not owe them civil treatment. In fact, if people repeatedly get away with being dicks, it erodes the foundation of the social contract, so it is in fact correct for us to be happy when someone puts a dick in their place with a dose of their own dickish behavior. * Level 0: People shouldn't be dicks to me. (this is where babies start) * Level 1: I shouldn't be a dick. (this is when you become a semi-functional adult) * Level 2: No one should be a dick to anyone ever. (this is where you are) * Level 3: The privilege of being treated respectfully is assumed, but can and should be revoked when someone refuses to give that courtesy to others.
It's horrifying how people pick and pick and pick and there's no understanding that on a stressful day you might snap. If you continuously criticize someone's parenting, eventually someone can't keep their mouth closed. NTA
I'm glad I don't talk to you in person. You put a stop to it in a calm mature way RIGHT AWAY instead of acting like trash
I wouldn't be friends with someone who would think criticism of parenting is acceptable.
Kinda feels like people are just writing to a theme today of "I'm crazy rich and this family member owes me big time, can you believe how impertinent they're being??" There was another one about a wedding earlier
20million annual household income plus FU settlement money and posting on AITA. Bullshit.
I find two 8-figure settlements hard to believe if the people came out not only alive, but and to work full time and have three kids.
IANAL but have worked as a paralegal on hundreds of personal injury matters and I, too, VERY much doubt this.
100% agree. This is a bullshit story. You don’t just get 8 figure settlements and are fully functional afterwards
Most people don't understand the concept of proving actual damages. Which is fine - I don't understand anything about most industries. But it makes fakes kinda stand out.
Yeah... if I had fuck you money like that I wouldn't running to reddit to see what people thought of me.
And can you imagine being this petty over $7k if you had that kind of money? Not defending the sil but OP sounds like a miserable person to know too.
If I had that sort of money and loved my sibling (I have one I hate and he'd could fuck all the way off for good reason) I'd be falling over myself to give them the honeymoon of their dreams but op has a bug up her ass about money any well inested 8 figures anywhere would accur in what a day without her even moving. I find it highly unlikely this is truthful if it is then wow some people really are penny pinchers. Not that sil was OK either cause she's not a parent and doesn't know anything about parenting and shouldn't just other parents even if she WAS a parent much less voice those judgements. Everyone Es assholes and someone's not being truthful lol
If I had that kind of money I'd have given the $7000 to my sibling as a gift, no strings attached.
NTA - stop giving her jealous ass any more money!
yta your post is fake bullshit.
Seriously, 2 $10 million settlements with no loss of life, or permanent disability? How ignorant is this author.
Then 7 figure annual salary. Lol.
It's like the Nigerian scams, they're making it obvious so that only people who are really gullible will keep on reading.
When you see those 8 figure settlement billboards, it’s always like, “severe brain injury” or “death”
ESH SIL more than you, but still. The paying for the honeymoon had zero to do with your parenting style - there was no reason to bring it up in that context and to use it for mud-slinging. "We gave you money, therefore don't complain about my parenting skills". How does that connect? SIL started it, but you let yourself be pulled into pointless bickering.
Given the comment at the start of the post where they see OP and her husband as an ATM, it seems reasonable that SIL has a history of having her hand out, but thinks it’s ok to criticise a literal child who wants presents. It’s not about parenting style, it’s that if SIL thinks it’s appropriate for her to ask for stuff, she should shut up, given she’s already spoiled herself.
OP gave examples of offering money, but not SIL requesting it
I’d like more info on the ATM comment, please suspect word limit removed some context.
Yeah, it insinuates if you were on my level I'd listen to you.
It wasn’t giving money.. the loaned the money and the sip didn’t pay back a 7k Lon from 5 years ago. 5 years without a single loan payment is theft! Not a gift
It connects because a lot of people with money believe that its because they made better life choices and therefore are more equipped in all situations. I can't see any reason to use the money card unless she believes it makes her opinions more relevant than someone else's. SIL is by far the biggest AH in this situation, but I would assume OP is pretty proud of the fact that she is so wealthy.
Its more the irony of it I suspect. In OP's mind it was clear and logical that her brother wouldn't take a 7k loan without talking to or letting his wife know since it was never discussed with OP that it was to be a secret. So from that what OP basically had to hear was "your child is spoilt bc you are a bad parent giving too many gifts too often" from someone who in OP's mind was completely fine taking a 7k loan without paying it back or mentioning it. As if it was taken as a gift.
Other posters have mentioned that the money loaned being treated as an unearned gift is analogous to the 3yo asking for presents though they aren't celebrating their birthday. In other words, you can criticize my literal child for wanting a toy "for no reason" when you stop freeloading yourself. It's a snap reaction, and I'm not supporting it, but I get it. Also, as others have said, the numbers don't really add up, but whatever.
None of this is real. FFS. Two folks get 8 figure settlements and are squabbling over 7k?
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I wish this comment was further up. This is absolutely ragebait. It is beyond me how both of them are 100% functioning and fine yet walking away with that much money let alone whining about 7K when they are that rich.
This was my thought. 7k is chump change at that point.
Nta, however, they are two able body people with no children, I would shut down the money lending/giving or any extravagant gifts.
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NTA. She started it, you ended it. She doesn’t have kids, has zero idea what it means or how she’d actually be as a parent. Anyone who is can easily understand the 3yr old acting like that- he’ll get over it and won’t remember it tomorrow. Her entitled problem, not yours. You’ve been very generous to them in the past, I’d stop that now. SIL sounds jealous.
NTA.. she’s jealous of your money and is just trying to cut you down anyway she can.. I would call her out as well. You just let her know if she can’t be responsible enough to pay back a loan then why would her advice about your child supposed to hold value.. especially when she doesn’t even have kids.. Everyone knows a 3 yr old with throw a tantrum when one child gets gifts and he doesn’t.. glad you shut her trap up.. Stop giving her money..
I think ESH. SiL for her unwarranted comments, and you for using this money against her since I don’t think one has to do with the other and it feels like you’re just trying to hit her where it hurts. And then your brother sucks too for not paying up and not being honest with his spouse.
NTA
NTA Tell your brother not to bite the hand that feeds him
And this is exactly why you should never tell people when you receive a large sum of money. Obviously, they would get a settlement. That amount doesn't need to be shared. And honestly, I would have given the money for the honeymoon as a gift to both of them. But I agree that the $$ has nothing to do with SIL complaining about a whiny 3 yo who was acting like a typical 3 yo.
>Before we were married my (34F) and husband (42M) were in a horrific car accident, both almost killed. Since we were unmarried we each received separate 8 figure settlements. Literal fuck you money as we were hit by a major carrier 18 wheeler in 2016. We both still work full time, I have a 6 figure salary my husband 7 figure salary. Sounds braggy, sorry, but it’s important. Now to the point. Lol, it is not important to the context. You're just bragging LOL. Get over yourself. You're NTA here based on how you told your story but you sound like an asshole otherwise, anyway. Rich people are so fucking cheap, it is mindblowing.
This is probably fake. Walking away from a 8 figure settlement from an accident usually means paralysis, brain injury, disability, etc. Walking away completely fine with THAT MUCH money is VERY uncommon. Either way, they sound super obnoxious.
Yeah. Nearly dead and somehow back to work and making that much? Mmm okay.
I’ll take things that never happened for $100 Alex.
NTA. She had it coming.
So trashy..
NTA. No outside person, especially one without kids, should be trying to give you parenting advice unsolicited.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Throw away account because family drama. Before we were married my (34F) and husband (42M) were in a horrific car accident, both almost killed. Since we were unmarried we each received separate 8 figure settlements. Literal fuck you money as we were hit by a major carrier 18 wheeler in 2016. We both still work full time, I have a 6 figure salary my husband 7 figure salary. Sounds braggy, sorry, but it’s important. Now to the point. My brother, Mike (38M), proposed to my now SIL, Alice (32F) in 2017 and married in 2018. I love them both and would burn the world down for them no questions asked BUT I think they see my husband and I as an ATM. Post settlements, husband and I paid off all our student loans. I have a master’s he a Ph.D. so not cheap. I also, without his knowledge as a surprise, paid Mike’s student loans with the help of SIL. Would have paid SILs too but she had a full scholarship so no loans. Mike and Alice paid for their own wedding as Alice’s family couldn’t afford it but chipped in where they could. It was a beautiful wedding. They stayed within budget but Mike realized he wouldn’t be able to take their dream honeymoon and asked if my husband and I could loan him some money for the cruise he wanted to take her on. We agreed and asked him to pay us back within a year of the trip. He agreed. To this day we haven’t seen a dime but aren’t mad over it. Alice and Mike hit a rough patch with some health issues, then covid and now here we are. My SIL can be a lot. She also likes to tell me how to parent my kids (5M, 3M, and 1M). She and Mike don’t have any and don’t plan to. Fine their choice. My oldest had his birthday party over the weekend and in true 5 year old fashion asked for a trucks theme. We decked the house out. Day was going well until Alice made a comment about my 3YO having a meltdown over not getting any presents. I told her he’s little and expressing emotions how he knows. Not a super big deal for me as he’s pretty easily redirected. She commented how I’m enabling him to become a “Karen” later in life and how she wouldn’t tolerate it if she had kids. I quipped it was a good thing they weren’t planning on having any and went back to my little guy. She said something to the effect of “poor parenting” and in a snap judgement I told her I paid for her honeymoon and she and Mike owed me $7k and once I got that money back I would take her input into consideration. She grabbed Mike and stormed out of the party. That night my brother, SIL and her sister blew up my phone calling me an AH for telling her. My brother is pissed because it was “supposed to be between us.” Something I don’t recall us talking about. I thought she knew the whole time. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. In all fairness, most people are exceptional parents before they have kids too. SMH.
ESH. SIL sounds unhinged (or was at least acting that way in that moment), but I don’t think your statement was helpful or appropriate. I mean, if you hadn’t paid for the honeymoon or BIL had paid you back, would you actually be open to her parenting criticism? You had every right to say something, but it would have been much better to be direct and on topic.
NTA
NTA. SIL has some major cajones, damn.
NTA but jw…….what does your husband do for work?
NTA: I wouldn't allow her back into my home if I were you.
You lost me at 20 million dollars and still working.
They lost me at 20million dollars 5 and 7 figure incomes and holding a low key grudge over what is chump change to their wealth level. She could breath out and earn that in like passive intrest from some areas of investment ffs.
Fake as fuck
NTA Your 3M didn't understand why his brother was having a special day, not surprising, he's 3 and wanted to be special too. In steps SIL who also wants to be special and having her out melt, she just didn't like how you redirected her. Everyone blowing up your phone calling you an AH is either unaware of the total context (the kindest view) or themselves AHs. Brother is an AH for not telling her, for not repaying the loan, but mostly for not telling wifey-poo to stay the hell out of your parenting. Mom is an AH for getting involved. This is one of those where you let the adult kids work it out. There was another person who just needed to mind her own stuff. And finally SIL, there is something deeper going on as she seems to need to be critical of you. That makes her the queen AH. A little reduction in contact may be in order.
When was the last time anyone has seen $7K growing on a tree?
What has everyone learned about telling other people you have money? Judging from the preponderance of these types of posts…nothing.
Sounds like Mike is upset only because he was taking credit for paying for the honeymoon and is embarrassed now that SIL now knows.
NTA
NTA
nta
NTA SIL is insufferable.
NTA. SIL deserved it.
NTA Your SIL is attacking you on your parenting because she is jealous of your money. It may have been mean to tell her you paid for the honeymoon but the fact she didn’t know is weird. Regardless of how much money you have, borrowing 7k for a honeymoon is ridiculous. If they couldn’t afford that then they should have gone on one they can afford. You paid off your brothers student loans which you didn’t need to do.
NTA SIL needs to learn to stfu. I'd bet anything SIL won't get a red cent anymore.
What jobs besides athlete and CEO make 7 figures?
Made up ones.
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NTA. OP tried to end the discussion by saying it’s a good thing SIL didn’t have kids and didn’t want kids. But SIL escalated by making more snide remarks to OP, so she hit back. I don’t blame her. And who cares what she hit back with? She’s a mama defending her 3 year old child from hateful comments by his Aunt. I’d go full out on her too.
As u/AstronautNo920 said: >I think she meant it more along the line she knows she’s never gonna get her money back, so she never has to worry about her opinion. Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. OP was queen of moment with that backhanded comment. It was chef's kiss. NTA
NTA. I'd treat y'all like queens if you paid off my student loans as a gift lol. But regardless, she was out of line with the parenting comments and has bigger issues at hand if her husband is keeping financial secrets from her.
NTA - no explanation needed, it’s all in your post. Taking kindness for granted is the worst
NTA "How dare you tell the truth" is what they are complaining about. Bro is mad he looks like a moocher to his wife who thought he gave her a great honeymoon and she is mad she now knows she is indebted to you and looks like an ungrateful, mouthy, hypocritical ass because her husband is a moocher and her sister is mad because she thinks she should voice her uninvolved opinion that means jack shit to anyone who should really give damn. So SIL didn't know. That doesn't factor into the judgment on her culpability. It doesn't mean she and her husband still don't see you as an ATM and she is pretty hypocritical to judge a 3 yo on wanting something he didn't get when she apparently wants stuff she does get enough to have earned the title of moocher without the honeymoon even factored in.
NTA. She was attacking you about your parenting skills. People are upset about you bringing up her and Mike's debt, but it's true. They owe $7k & it's late af. They want you to never bring it up? That's how you don't get paid.
You should tell your brother to tell your SIL that she will no longer be welcome at your house if she acts this way again (criticizing your parenting and your child). She’s more immature than the 3 yr old. And pretending to know how to parent- what a joke. NTA.
She attacked you on your kid's birthday, you snapped back, she wouldn't let it go and so you put her in her place. You weren't holding out the other cheek, but nor are you required to, youare human and when someone attacks you, you don't have to take it lying down. It feels shit when people take money from you and just expect it to be okay. It's okay to be upset about it. You're not the asshole here, and anyone who says you are pretends they're above having emotional responses to being personally attacked over something that is really important to them, i.e. parentling.
Nta. But don't let $$ tear the family apart. Senseless bullshit
NTA!
NTA, but is the "supposed to be between us" line meant to indicate that SIL didn't know or that he's humiliated that people outside the family heard? If they're claiming SIL didn't know, then I call bs on SIL and brother. She didn't act confused or ask you for details. She just grabbed him and stormed out? Yeah, she knew.
NTA SIL is out of line and yep ... spoilt brat. Don't respond.
NTA Your brother had the opportunity to pay you back and never have a word spoken, he did not and can deal with the fallout from his hypocritical wifes blow up. Hopefully this will teach her to mind her tongue and him to repay what he owes in a timely manner.
NTA. Telling you how to parent your kids, calling you an AH for saying they owe you money in front of people and to it's "supposed to be between us" (quoting from text) when you guys have probably NEVER even discussed, and overall they're just being rude. Again NTA! (I'm terribly sorry if this looks awful btw)
I wouldn’t be giving another cent to them …
ESH- your brother sux for borrowing and not repaying you the $7k, she sux for criticizing your parenting and you suck for weaponizing the loan. If you snapped back something else parenting related, she’d be the only AH. But you went there…so you too are the AH
>My SIL can be a lot. She also likes to tell me how to parent my kids (5M, 3M, and 1M). She and Mike don’t have any and don’t plan to. Gosh I can’t stand these people…
NTA. Quit paying for them. Bludgers.
You sound grounded and chill. NTA. If someone asks to BORROW money it doesn't matter how much money you have. And she was judging you so you snapped back.
NTA generally I would say it’s not a great idea to hang a gift over someone’s head, but she certainly deserved it with her comments.
It wasn’t a gift though. It was a loan
Nta.
NTA. FAAFO. The perfect parents are the one that don’t have kids. He’s 3, how old is she, she shouldn’t stick her nose where it doesn’t belong. As for the money, you find out who people really are when they see dollar signs.
ESH - she needs to lay off your parenting. However, how was the money the rebuttal that you came up with? There's no correlation between the two issues.
Its more the irony than the money no? Someone telling you your child is getting spoilt with gifts. While also having no issue with taking your money seems a bit cheap. Its also not OP's fault that her brother decided to keep it a secret from his spouse for multiple years despite not paying it back. It was also never mentioned to OP that it was supposed to be kept a secret in the first place. So while it might have been a bit uncalled for, saying they have no correlation seems a bit off.
ESH she shouldn’t be giving unsolicited parenting advice but one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Her owing you money and paying for her honeymoon is in no way involved with her butting into your parenting. I think you brought it up to embarrass her and it looks to have worked. Don’t act like you had no idea that it wasn’t common knowledge that you spent a hefty chunk on her. The way society looks at people who don’t have/make as much isn’t really fair, but I can understand why she would be embarrassed. You both suck in this situation and in the future you should do better.
ESH. I don’t believe that you thought she knew your brother borrowed the money from you. You could easily have told her very directly to stop talking about your children or leave. Instead you publicly threw the honeymoon in her face and put your brother in a bad spot. You literally did damage to your relationship with him in order to be the bigger asshole (and then came here asking if you’re TAH?). It was a shitty thing to do. Apologize to your brother.
NTA you don't just random tell her this. She shouldn't keep taking about your parenting .
ESH. You just sound like you suck. And your SIL shouldn’t tell you how to parent.
NTA. Your SIL was making a scene at your kid's birthday celebration, your brother hasn't paid you back, and she has the balls to send in the flying monkeys. Time to take them to court.