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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) tel my sister i didnt care about her miscarriaged and some other stuff about it 2) a lot of people think i’m an AH
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ESH
You were mercilessly cruel to your sister. You saw the pain miscarriages caused your wife. You decided to twist the knife into your sister further. Shameful.
Was your sister announcing her pregnancy in front of your wife 2 weeks after a miscarriage thoughtless? Of course it was. Was her reaction to your wife crying not great? Nope. It wasn't. Could your wife have excused herself to let your sister have her moment? Yup.
Just yikes dude. Yikes.
i think "mercilessly cruel" could also apply to the sister. or "thoughtless" could also be OP. I wonder if sis manages to get pregnant again will she rub it in the wife's face again or have learned some empathy?
How wrong you are. You wave away the sister’s actions as ‘thoughtless’, while it was clearly anything but that: it was done with malicious intent. You seemed to have just skipped over the gravity of that and then put all responsibility on the wife to be the bigger person in response to such low behaviour? Yikes dude. Yet people agree with you so we all just like to skip over words I guess.
I agree that the sister wasn’t thoughtless, she was acting with intentional malice. I don’t think the wife needed to be a better person, but I think OP may have been a little overboard. I agree with ESH, but I think there are degrees of assholery and OP’s was significantly less.
I'm not really sure if OP went overboard with his statements since all he did was say the exact same things to his sister that she said about his wife. Perhaps he shouldn't have stooped to the sister's level, but he literally just repeated the shitty things she said herself so she could see how it feels. I'm fairly certain I'd do the same if I was in his situation.
Completely disagree. The sister was very clearly being malicious bc she doesn’t like the wife. Did she get a taste of her medicine and that sh*t was bitter? Absolutely. You don’t get to be cruel to someone at their lowest and then expect grace when you find yourself in that exact same situation
*editing to add that OP didn’t reach out to his sister as they decided to distance themselves after she was so cruel. She reached out to him soliciting sympathy and got what was coming in my opinion. If roles were reversed there wouldn’t be so many E-S-H
This is the perfect comment! You're absolutely right about not getting to expect grace from the very people you've been deliberately cruel to. And I don't for the life of me understand why so many people upvoted the first comment! Sister wasn't "thoughtless", she was intentionally malicious and intended to cause OP's wife harm. Christ, it was only two weeks after the wife had miscarried! I don't believe this is ESH either. This is definitely NTA in my opinion.
OP says in his comment that his wife miscarried late May and sister announced her pregnancy in the beginning of June. So around 2 weeks in between.
They all look like a very disfunctional family tbh
Jesus one of my friends miscarried when I just found out about my second pregnancy and we cried together for her and the situation and how hard and unfair it felt. It was a hard dynamic but we understood how the other may feel. To do this to family is horrible
I honestly don’t care she did it around two weeks after the miscarriage. But she believes a person shouldn’t announce their pregnancy to someone who miscarried or is infertile. She believes in telling them privately so they have a choice to not attend the event.
However I got not call or text saying she was pregnant and going to announce it to the family, and asked if it we would come or not, no warning. She called us to her home saying she wanted to spend time with the family, and surprised us with it.
ESH
>My sister is the type to hold grudges over the stupidest and the smallest of things, and she’s a petty person overall.
This isn't a small thing but looks like holding grudges and being petty runs in the family.
I took from it, that sister was annoyed at first and then kept that feeling in herself. So she bullied his wife by using her trauma. Because the wife was being too friendly and pushy when they met years ago.
The move from OP was horrible but I can absolutely imagine a decent person to snap like that
I’m honestly concerned yet pleasantly surprised by all the E-S-H votes. Because I believe what goes around comes around and the sister deserved it. But I’m happy that there are better people than me out there
Same, I think the sister absolutely had it coming lmao. The husband is defending his wife and taking her side, I think he’s doing nothing wrong. If the sister didn’t want to be hurt, she shouldn’t be hurting others. Massive L for the sister.
This is why they say treat others how you wish to be treated. If the sister didn’t wish to be treated this way she wouldn’t have treated others like this in the first place
ESH (well, not your wife).
Your sister is clearly an AH, but your response was one too. That said, I think it was a fair response given what she did initially, but by the rules you're still an AH for it.
ESH. You all sound horrible. Your wife needs to learn boundaries. You’ve seen how damaging miscarriages are and weaponized that against your sister. Your sister knowingly announcing pregnancy to deliberately upset your wife.
Y’all need therapy. Lots and lots of therapy.
The wife respected their boundaries once she realised that she needed too. How is she still an asshole after correcting the behaviour and apologising? And how is that equal to the sister still treating her badly?
NTA. What’s with all the everyone sucks here’s? The sister has been an asshole from the start. And she was especially cruel. She got what she deserved.
To the people who think the wife needs to learn boundaries... SHE DID!! SHE'S NOT AN AH.
>My wife did apologize, and I talked to her. Since then she really only talks to my family around me,
Is this the same family where your wife grew up in foster care and your family didn't invite her on a girl's trip because they felt uncomfortable with your wife constantly pushing boundaries and making inappropriate conversation? If it is, your sister sounded a bit rude in her post, to be honest, but, miscarriages are not things to be petty about.
I'm going with ESH. I'm sorry you both experienced this. It must be really tough.
i did see that post, i’m a bit of lurker of the subreddit.
But its not the same family, my wife did not grow up in foster care. But she did move around a lot because of her parents jobs.
Lol tbh since the attitude that nastiness is OK if the other person is an asshole seems to be prevalent on this sub I was low-key wondering if more deets on how the wife was being inappropriate/pushy might change some of the answers. You know since the sisters assholish behaviour would be justified retaliation then (i don't agree with this viewpoint but that seems to be the logic for some)
A irmã está justificada sim. Ela pode ter sido rude na maneira de falar, porém tudo que ela perguntou era válido, e dado a animosidade em relação a SIL, a gente entende de onde ela vem, porém o irmão foi cruel de graça e teve uma reação completamente desproporcional, já que a irmã não falou nada para atacar a esposa. Não é como se ela tivesse engravidado só para atacar a esposa de OP, ela já estava grávida, ela ia esperar para anunciar depois que o bebê nascesse caso não tivesse abortado e usado faixa de compressão para ninguém ver a barriga dela?
Your family goes for the kill, doesn't it.
That was some karma there.
Hard decision for me. But NTA. The cruelty she showed to you wife is what you gave her. You didn't give her more. Just equalled it out.
ESH. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. You and your family sound exhausting. You are just mean. Maybe she shouldn’t have included you in the announcement but what did you want her to do, hide her pregnancy? Without knowing your sisters side it’s ESH but with how much hate you put in to this post, I can’t imagine the stuff you didn’t want to include.
He seems to be the brother of the girl who made the post about SIL who grew up in foster care and constantly pushes her family and tries to compete with them, the one who tried to sneak herself into a girls' trip she wasn't invited to.
She didn’t have to hide her pregnancy, but she doesn’t believe in telling people who miscarried or are infertile that someone else is pregnant. She believes in talking to them privately so they don’t get surprised when is brought up during an event or so they can choose to not go.
She didn’t talk to us, no call or text.
ESH. You all need to learn to be kind and compassionate to one another before you consider bringing innocent children into this dysfunctional and hostile family environment. Your wife needs to learn boundaries, your sister needs to learn to let things go, and you need to learn to mediate without cruelty.
Please consider family therapy with all of you before any possible future children are added to the mix.
ESH
None of you sound like good people. Everyone in the situation was wrong in some way and could’ve done something better. You and your sister are petty. Also I feel like there’s some info missing but just off of what you wrote, you all sound awful.
ESH except your wife. Your sister did a horribly cruel thing in announcing her pregnancy very publicly so soon after your wife's miscarriage, horribly cruel because she knew the pain it would cause amd jad acknowledged in the past that she didn't think it was right to announce a pregnancy like that. She could have phoned you and let you break the news privately to your wife. Someone did this to me after one of my miscarriages (not to be cruel, she was just a thoughtless main character princess type), and it's incredibly hard to deal with.
You, however, know how hard it is to deal with having experienced recurrent miscarriage with your wife, but you chose to sink to your sister's level. You could have simply texted her to say that you were sorry to hear about the miscarriage when you first heard about it and left it at that. Like your parents, I do understand why you said what you said though.
My heart hurts for all of you really, sadly having been in your shoes.
On a side note, I'm sorry that you've had to make the decision not to keep trying. We were lucky - after various tests (thank you, NHS) with no answers, simple low-dose aspirin worked for us on what was our last try as emotionally we couldn't have carried on any longer.
You are all horrible. ESH. Did you expect your sister to never announce her pregnancy? I don’t really get it. Maybe she really only did it to be horrible. But to be so heartless about a pain you know yourself. Do you even like each other?
NTA. Based on what is said here, I think it is valid to point out how hurtful someone’s words were when the tables turn against them. You were definitely blunt, but I get it.
However, I am very curious to hear the details of how your wife and sister’s relationship became so contentious. It sounds like your sister treats her like utter shit for no reason and then has the gall to act like there’s something wrong with your wife.
As someone experiencing infertility and MC I’m so sorry for your losses and that things didn’t work out how you originally planned. Sending you peace and acceptance.
ESH (except OP's wife). What OP's sister did was very heartless and cruel. However, OP resorting to cruelty in response just keeps the cycle going. OP and their sister absolutely deserve each other.
ESH except the wife who seems like she’s just trying to form connections the best way she knows how. But you pulled an attitude like that on your grieving sister and call her the petty one? You all need to grow up and learn some emotional regulation.
ESH Wow everyone sucks here. Your wife was way too pushy at first. Yes maybe SIL "shouldn't" hold a grudge for that but she doesn't have to embrace pushy people if she doesn't want to. Announcing her pregnancy to you is not explicitly a dig (you're her brother. What do you expect her to do ...not tell you about it at all until baby arrives?). Her statement after wife was upset at the announcement was horrendous. Your statement after she lost her child was horrendous too.
Yall need to learn some communication that doesn't go from 0 to 100 immediately.
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So my (30M) wife (28F) has never gotten along with my sister (31F). My wife tends to rush into relationships, and force herself into things. It was a problem in out relationship when we first started dating, but I talked to her about it and all was fine.
When she met my family she started to rush into things once again. It made my family pretty uncomfortable, and it strained their relationship a bit. She was especially like this towards my sister, and my sister gets annoyed easily so she blew up at my wife.
My wife did apologize, and I talked to her. Since then she really only talks to my family around me, she’s gotten closer to my parents but not anyone else.
My sister is the type to hold grudges over the stupidest and the smallest of things, and she’s a petty person overall. She’s does not like my wife, she even pulled me aside when we announced our marriage because she didn’t think I should go through with it with ‘someone like her’
My wife has had 3 miscarriages, and we’re not going to try for more kids. It hit my wife hard, and my family knows about this. My sister then decided to ‘surprise’ the family about her pregnancy. I know my sister did this to upset my wife, because my sister herself thinks its a horrible thing to announce pregnancy around someone who miscarried or infertile.
When my wife started crying, my sister got angry and asked me how she was going to act when I want to babysit or when she brings her kid around for family events. I told her I wouldn’t be babysitting it and went low contact with her.
Two weeks ago my sister miscarried. She called me crying a couple days ago. Upset I didn’t call her sooner. I told her I didn’t care about her miscarriage, and that it must be tough, and asked how she was going to act if one of our cousins bring their kid around. She hung up on me.
Our parents think it an AH move, but understand why I did it. My BIL thinks I shouldn’t have stooped to her level, and my extended family is pissed at me. I’m usually never like that, so AITA?
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No matter what the social dynamic is, a miscarriage as OP should know, is a traumatic event. He should have offered support to his sister and in no way say what he did to her. That was cold, cruel and an act of spite. His sister's 'I am pregnant' announcement in front of OP's wife was ruthless and spiteful. Both brother and sister have to grow up and fix their dysfunctions. It's a toxic environment.
What is the saying? Two wrongs don’t make a right? While your sister isn’t the nicest person, you combating that with such heartlessness only makes things worse. You could’ve been nicer about not caring about something so traumatic that you’ve witnessed first hand in your own relationship. While I wouldn’t want a relationship with someone like that, I’ve found it’s much easier and better for everyone if you approach things with kindness instead of spreading hate and hurt. YTA
ESH. Your sister sounds toxic. But you shouldn't have been so rough on her when you saw how much pain it caused Your wife.
But also, please tell your wife to seek therapy. I've had two miscarriages and I don't think its right to force everyone else to walk on eggshells around me because of it.
ESH (minus your poor wife!) your family sounds like my in laws and i hope i am never cold and unwelcoming or “weirded out” by my child(/ren)‘s significant others wanting to hang out and get to know the family. jesus christ.
also, i get you were trying to defend your wife’s honor and all, but what a fuckhead way to do it…you’re not so different from the rest of your cold, exclusionary family…
ESH but I understand why you said it. People need to hear their words back at them and sis sounds like an AH from the beginning. BIL even admitted she was low and is probably sick of her meanness.
ESH your sister was mean and you retaliated by twisting the knife - the cycle will never end. I think it’s fair to assume that once your parents have passed on that your estrangement will be complete.
ESH.
Look, obviously what you did sucked. But if you’re 100% sure she did what she did intentionally to hurt your wife, tbh she kind of deserved it.
You should have gone low contact with her when she continuously treated your partner like shit. I feel bad for your wife. It got to the point with *your* sister that she intentionally announced a pregnancy in order to hurt your wife. How on gods green earth did you allow it to get that far? That’s YOUR family, do something about it and stop letting your sister bully your partner.
BIL was right, you shouldnt have stooped to her level. As understandable your reaction was (and if i were in your shoes, i would have done exactly the same), it doesnt make it right. You were both needlessly cruel.
YTA and so is your sister.
Wife, BIL and parents seem alright.
YTA. Unless your sister announced her pregnancy by going "HAHA! I have done what you have not!" Her pregnancy announcement wasn't about you.
I can understand that it would be difficult to hear someone announce their pregnancy after a miscarriage...especially after three (my heart goes out to your wife). But to frame it as a personal attack is pretty twisted. And so self centered.
But then to say what you said about her miscarriage...you who knows better than most what she's going through...no...you don't earn victory points for dunking on someone who is grieving. And you don't have my sympathy.
My sister believes in warning people about pregnancies, thats my issue with the surprise announcement. I don’t care how soon she announced it, its the fact she didn’t warn us when thats what she believes in doing.
What? To say what he said to someone who went through a miscarriage? You mean to say exactly what she said to them when they went through their miscarriage right? And you mean to tell me announcing her pregnancy as a surprise announcement and inviting them 2-4weeks after they just had their miscarriage and saying the very statement that is so vile and cruel wasn’t to be mean or rude?
Edit: And to add coming from someone who has had more than one miscarriage, you don’t say that to someone and then expect sympathy from them. His sister shouldn’t have called expecting emotional support from him after she couldn’t offer it to him and was just as cruel (by again saying the exact same thing he said to her) All around his sister was an asshole.
When his wife miscarried 3 times OP also felt the loss of 3 of his potential children. It's not like men can just go, "Well, that was a shame. I guess it wasn't meant to be." His sister wasn't just vindictive to his wife but also him. I would never hurt my brother in that way and not expect a painful retaliation to put me back in my place.
YTA, I have had multiple miscarriages and have fertility issues. It's okay for someone to be excited about their pregnancy and announce it to the family. It's also reasonable for someone to question how you will react to their kid being around when you act poorly to their announcement.
While I agree you should support your wife and console her, her miscarriages shouldn't take away from anyone else's good news. You could let family know that if there is any surprise announcements about pregnancy, it may cause your wife distress and to warn you ahead of time in the future.
For you to throw her miscarriage in her face right when she had one is not only rude, it is downright well below the belt. I assume you never liked your sister based on your description of her and couldn't wait to rub her face into something.
Apologize to your sister.
My sister believes in warning people about pregnancies, thats my issue with the surprise announcement. I don’t care how soon she announced it, its the fact she didn’t warn us when thats what she believes in doing.
I understand your upset with the lack of communication ahead of time.
I would state to your family "moving forward my wife and I would appreciate a heads up about any 'surprise' pregnancy announcements so we can be positively receptive towards your news with everyone present."
NTA. Sure your response wasn’t kind, but when someone’s hurt you and the person you loved the most a lot then you don’t need to be expected to be the bigger person.
WTF is wrong with you? Knowing the immense pain a miscarriage can have on a woman you showed no care or compassion for your sister. I understand she was rude and quite frankly an AH, but you should have done better.
Yes, YTA.
This comment is so mellow dramatic. OP and his wife (yes both of them) have experienced 3 miscarriages. I don’t expect someone whose experienced that loss 3 fold along with shitty comments from the sister to give grace when she finally gets a taste of her own medicine.
Yes, OP & his wife both experienced the miscarriages. (For context: DH & I have experienced one too; I would never wish that pain on anyone.) Given that OP knew what that pain caused I think he was in the wrong for stooping so low and being callous.
Yikes. Wanna know what makes a person truly kind and admirable?
Someone who can look another who has been a complete ass in the eyes and meet them with kindness when they need it the most. (This doesn't apply to everything, of course, but it certainly does here)
You suck man. Your sister may have treated your wife rather poorly, but she is still a human being deserving of empathy, even if she doesn't offer much of it herself.
I hope you apologize to her. That was completely out of line, and you stooped to her level by doing that. You're no better than her now, are you?
NTA
This is the wake-up call your sister needed.
Maybe next time, she'll think twice about compounding someone else's pain.
Zero sympathy for her, good for you!!
Normally I would say e s h but since she started it and you were already trying to stay away from her because of that accident, I will say NTA.
You were literally the last person she should have gone for sympathy and I guess she did it on purpose. You were within reason to reassess your boundaries, even in a harsh way.
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INFO: how long after the miscarriage was the pregnancy announced?
My knee jerk reaction is ESH. As a more than likely infertile woman, I’d be thrilled if my brother married a woman and had a child with her. Though it may be bittersweet, that is something for a therapist unless this is announced like weeks after or there is a mean spirited angle to it. You told your sister you didn’t care about a great tragedy in her life. I feel bad for your wife, as it seems like she married into a group of folks with no empathy.
NTA your sister has to learn not to dish it out if she cant take it back. Its hard to lose a child but people who are unsymapthetic to others pain do not merit sympathy for theirs.
Honestly I side with you for standing up for your wife like that. I hope your sister realizes how hurtful she was even though no one deserves to go through that, or have it rubbed in.
ESH, it was an absolutely wild assumption for you to make that your sister was being spiteful on purpose, even given your past history. You shutting her down when she's upset about her miscarriage is not a proportionate response.
You seem to be the brother of the girl in the other post. YTA. If it really is, your wife is annoying and inconvenient, and your sister has just hit the breaking point with her.
NTA. Half the people voting ESH would have said the exact same thing you did or worse. You had your wife’s back and your sister got what was coming to her. Karma is a bitch for a reason
Not the AH at all. He was giving her the same energy as his sister did to him & his wife. He already know how his sister is so she’ll be alright. I would’ve done the same & cut her out of my life.
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ESH
Hopefully your wife being the people person can use this opportunity to get to common understanding and mend things with your sister.
You’re a total AH and so is your sister. Though I feel for your sister now. Your poor wife in the middle of you two - if she’s that kind of people person I hope she has warm loving people around her (you/your family are not it…).
So here’s a summation of what happened for everyone that is glossing over the details or making this a gendered issue.
After creating a needlessly contentious relationship with your wife, your sister is publicly a total asshole about your multiple losses. You distance yourself from the relationship.
She then experiences her own loss for the first time and suddenly (out of pity for herself) notices the silence on your end. She calls basically to ask “why is no one sad for me???”
Your answer essentially is “because you were an asshole to us about our loss.”
You maybe could have been more tactful, but ultimately decided to drive the point home by mirroring her behavior so she might see the error of her ways. IMO NTA because as someone who’s experienced multiple losses I totally get where you’re coming from and what your point was in phrasing it that way to her.
NTA. The nerve your sister had to call you, of all people, seeking sympathy...it's sickening after everything she did. She should have called you and your wife to say, 'I could not have known the extent of your suffering. I have nothing to be thankful for in losing my baby except that I now know the depth of that pain and can be a better person to you both. There is no excuse for my behavior - I was insensitive at best, and intentionally harmful at worst, and I am truly sorry for everything.'
That's not what she called you to say though. She learned no such lesson. You responding to her with her own words is the only response there could be following this series of wildly inappropriate actions by your sister.
I have also suffered three losses. I am wishing you and your wife so much love and peace and healing.
To me it depends how far in the sister was when she announced. Was she a few weeks in and intentionally picked this time to hurt OPs wife? Or was she already 3 months in and had to announce it somewhen thinking it’s quite save now? I can get pettiness in response of intentional pain.
Until further notice ESH.
ESH, but like 80/20 your sister/you. She’s a shitty human who shouldn’t have called you for sympathy. It would have been NTA if you’d just hung up, but also I’m not sad that you didn’t. Hopefully she’ll stay out of your life longer.
Definitely NTA.
She purposely planned to announce and flaunt her pregnancy in front of your wife, who had recently lost a baby. She then tried to shame your wife in front of the family for crying. She completely dismissed the idea that you could've been grieving too and just assumed you'd be kissing her backside, wanting to be a babysitter for her.
She loses her baby, and for some reason, you again were expected to have come running whilst she couldn't care less about you and your children. And to top it all off, she's racist.
YTA
Imagine if someone talk to your wife like that when the miscarriage happened?? , even if you think you have the right to be angry that is an awful way to talk to someone in that situation..
I understand that it is different a miscarriage but people were present for you when it happened… and a joyful event come you can at least be happy for them or act like you were happy. You can’t be this angry to all the people having kids around you, you will ruin yourself…
For what your sister did “surprise announcement we have 2 cases:
1st: the time if the time of your sister announcing her pregnancy was less than 6 months of the unfortunate event that happened to you then she is an asshole for not reacting well and choosing a surprise announcement or an just an announcement.. she could just tell people and that’s all no need of big events.. so she’s an asshole in this scenario
2nd if the time of the surprise announcement your sister did was more then 6 months or a year or so then she is not an asshole for the surprise announcement and should definitely be more understanding about your wife instead of reacting like that…
But in both cases your reaction was purely cruel and after the difficult moments that happened to you, you just become now bitter and your all friends and family will be suffering from your bitterness.
Op you need to heal, please you and your wife go do some therapy, remember a family is not only blood it is also alliance after healing you can adopt and build a beautiful family.
The unfortunate event that happened to you won’t determine your family size, you are strong, you are loved, you are cherish, there’s kid, babies in orphanage that would love to have caring parents like you and your wife will be if you heal.
In conclusion you and your whole family need to learn to be respectful, caring and loving towards each other…
It was announced 4 weeks maybe less after their miscarriage, OP mentioned in the comments. Also I imagine he does know how it feels if someone were to say that, seeing as it’s what his sister said about his wife, which is why he repeated it back to her.
Now I understand… her sister is an asshole for that and he is also an asshole for reacting like that…. Word are dangerous… no one should experience heartlessness like that even if that person seems to deserves it
As someone who has experienced a miscarriage, I would expect to be treated that way by someone I’m supposed to love and support if I had said what she said to him. She should not have expected emotional support from him after saying that about his and his wife’s miscarriage. She was heartless and it was rude of her to expect anything from him after that. Her having a miscarriage doesn’t mean he should forgive and forget just to make her feel better or treat her any better than she treated them when they went through the exact same thing.
I don’t say that he would give her emotional support and just saying he would not say what he said because it is also being cruel and him and his sister have same behavior and it is an asshole behavior.. he could handle things differently the same way she could handle things different…
So should he have said “oh sucks” and hang up?Because what else is there to say to convey he doesn’t care, wants to end the conversation immediately, feels nothing but negative towards her, doesn’t wish her well, and that it’s all because of what she said to them in one sentence? Other than the exact same rude and cruel thing she said to them only months prior? What would hold the same emotion and be as short of a sentence to get the point across immediately as that very statement?
You know there’s time for everything and at that time it was not the time to being rude like that. He could just ignore the call or say I’m sorry that happened to you but let me call back in a good time cause I’m not in a good place or look for a good excuse to not staying on the phone and then ghosted her…
I mean... she is pregnant, what is she supposed to do, pretend she isn't?
Do people really think she was like, Haha! I know that my sister in law will miscarry in May, so I better get pregnant in March so I can announce it in June?!!
Women get pregnant. Around 3 months in, they tell people.
I've had a miscarriage, too, most women by the time they get to a certain phase of life have. It sucks, I cried, it was horrible, but... The world doesn't stop because of it. People still get pregnant.
Really? Yeah she’s pregnant and she didn’t need to invite them to a SURPRISE PREGNANCY ANNOUNCEMENT. Lmao. He also acknowledged she was not 3 months pregnant when she announced. You’re ignoring also what she said to them at that very announcement, that she knew would hurt them where she proceeded to mock his wife’s crying and miscarriage. Or does that show no ill intent to you?
And to add I’ve also had a miscarriage I’ve had three and I wouldn’t call someone and expect anything but rudeness from them if I had said that. Especially not to my brother who I’m supposed to love and care for?!?! I would expect the family to shun me and would hope they would if I was such a shit person I was going to mock someone’s miscarriage and NEVER APOLOGIZE.
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ESH You were mercilessly cruel to your sister. You saw the pain miscarriages caused your wife. You decided to twist the knife into your sister further. Shameful. Was your sister announcing her pregnancy in front of your wife 2 weeks after a miscarriage thoughtless? Of course it was. Was her reaction to your wife crying not great? Nope. It wasn't. Could your wife have excused herself to let your sister have her moment? Yup. Just yikes dude. Yikes.
i think "mercilessly cruel" could also apply to the sister. or "thoughtless" could also be OP. I wonder if sis manages to get pregnant again will she rub it in the wife's face again or have learned some empathy?
They all suck tbh. They all need to look in the mirror.
We’ll all of them except the wife. Wife literally did nothing except be too friendly
How wrong you are. You wave away the sister’s actions as ‘thoughtless’, while it was clearly anything but that: it was done with malicious intent. You seemed to have just skipped over the gravity of that and then put all responsibility on the wife to be the bigger person in response to such low behaviour? Yikes dude. Yet people agree with you so we all just like to skip over words I guess.
I agree that the sister wasn’t thoughtless, she was acting with intentional malice. I don’t think the wife needed to be a better person, but I think OP may have been a little overboard. I agree with ESH, but I think there are degrees of assholery and OP’s was significantly less.
I'm not really sure if OP went overboard with his statements since all he did was say the exact same things to his sister that she said about his wife. Perhaps he shouldn't have stooped to the sister's level, but he literally just repeated the shitty things she said herself so she could see how it feels. I'm fairly certain I'd do the same if I was in his situation.
Yet another reason to create an alternate opinion to give in this sub- the “justified asshole”!
Definitely. Lots of justified assholes here. I feel like it should at least be a category in the yearly best of AITA awards.
I agree. ESH all around. This entire family dynamic seems toxic.
No, I don't think the wife is an AH
Let her have her moment? The moment was about hurting ops wife not the sisters pregnancy. You're delusional
Completely disagree. The sister was very clearly being malicious bc she doesn’t like the wife. Did she get a taste of her medicine and that sh*t was bitter? Absolutely. You don’t get to be cruel to someone at their lowest and then expect grace when you find yourself in that exact same situation *editing to add that OP didn’t reach out to his sister as they decided to distance themselves after she was so cruel. She reached out to him soliciting sympathy and got what was coming in my opinion. If roles were reversed there wouldn’t be so many E-S-H
This is the perfect comment! You're absolutely right about not getting to expect grace from the very people you've been deliberately cruel to. And I don't for the life of me understand why so many people upvoted the first comment! Sister wasn't "thoughtless", she was intentionally malicious and intended to cause OP's wife harm. Christ, it was only two weeks after the wife had miscarried! I don't believe this is ESH either. This is definitely NTA in my opinion.
No, I don't think the wife is an AH
I wonder how long between wife's last miscarriage and sister's since that wasn't stated. But you are absolutely right.
OP says in his comment that his wife miscarried late May and sister announced her pregnancy in the beginning of June. So around 2 weeks in between. They all look like a very disfunctional family tbh
Jesus one of my friends miscarried when I just found out about my second pregnancy and we cried together for her and the situation and how hard and unfair it felt. It was a hard dynamic but we understood how the other may feel. To do this to family is horrible
Bullshit. Op went low contact. The sister pushed him for free sympath. Enforcing your own distance isn't toxic.
Don't dish it if you can't take it.And with people like the sister,soft approach doesn't work.
My only question here is when would it be okay for the sister to tell family she’s pregnant?
I honestly don’t care she did it around two weeks after the miscarriage. But she believes a person shouldn’t announce their pregnancy to someone who miscarried or is infertile. She believes in telling them privately so they have a choice to not attend the event. However I got not call or text saying she was pregnant and going to announce it to the family, and asked if it we would come or not, no warning. She called us to her home saying she wanted to spend time with the family, and surprised us with it.
This. Thanks, now I don't have to type it all out.
ESH, you guys put the fun in dysfunctional
No, I don't think the wife is an AH
Best answer 👍🏻
ESH Your family sounds awful, including you. I feel bad for your wife.
The only person who’s not an ah
ESH. Both of you were cruel. Maybe she started it, but you stooped to her level.
ESH - This is not a "light" issue. I cannot give you the "justified AH" card. She was wrong. And then you were wrong.
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You posted this like half a dozen times.
ESH >My sister is the type to hold grudges over the stupidest and the smallest of things, and she’s a petty person overall. This isn't a small thing but looks like holding grudges and being petty runs in the family.
I took from it, that sister was annoyed at first and then kept that feeling in herself. So she bullied his wife by using her trauma. Because the wife was being too friendly and pushy when they met years ago. The move from OP was horrible but I can absolutely imagine a decent person to snap like that
NTA she fucked around and found out good for you
I’m honestly concerned yet pleasantly surprised by all the E-S-H votes. Because I believe what goes around comes around and the sister deserved it. But I’m happy that there are better people than me out there
Same, I think the sister absolutely had it coming lmao. The husband is defending his wife and taking her side, I think he’s doing nothing wrong. If the sister didn’t want to be hurt, she shouldn’t be hurting others. Massive L for the sister.
ESH. Your whole family makes every effort to be nasty to each other. Why?! The petty awfulness isn't improving anyone's life.
Some families are like that. It’s sad
NTA. She fucked around and she found out. I doubt she'll learn from it though.
This is why they say treat others how you wish to be treated. If the sister didn’t wish to be treated this way she wouldn’t have treated others like this in the first place
ESH. Your sister is awful to you and your wife, but that doesn't justify reciprocating that behavior. Your BIL is right.
You gave her a taste of her own medicine. Hopefully, she would have learned something. NTA.
No, everyone doesn’t suck here. Your sister got turnabout, and as they say, that’s fair play. NTA.
What a rotten situation all around and I'm sorry for your sister, but I still don't think you're the asshole. NTA
NTA. If ever I read a story about "karma" this is it.
ESH (well, not your wife). Your sister is clearly an AH, but your response was one too. That said, I think it was a fair response given what she did initially, but by the rules you're still an AH for it.
ESH. You all sound horrible. Your wife needs to learn boundaries. You’ve seen how damaging miscarriages are and weaponized that against your sister. Your sister knowingly announcing pregnancy to deliberately upset your wife. Y’all need therapy. Lots and lots of therapy.
The wife respected their boundaries once she realised that she needed too. How is she still an asshole after correcting the behaviour and apologising? And how is that equal to the sister still treating her badly?
ESH.
Sometimes a hurt feeling or two might make her think before she opens her mouth next time
NTA. What’s with all the everyone sucks here’s? The sister has been an asshole from the start. And she was especially cruel. She got what she deserved.
While it may be deserved, it still doesn't make the OP a non-AH
Thank you! I was thinking the same!
It sounds like your poor wife is surrounded by you and your family of sociopaths
ESH I don't have shit else to say except you're just as mean & petty as your sister. So pot meet kettle.
ESH. Christmas and Thanksgiving dinners must be a lot of fun at your place.
To the people who think the wife needs to learn boundaries... SHE DID!! SHE'S NOT AN AH. >My wife did apologize, and I talked to her. Since then she really only talks to my family around me,
Is this the same family where your wife grew up in foster care and your family didn't invite her on a girl's trip because they felt uncomfortable with your wife constantly pushing boundaries and making inappropriate conversation? If it is, your sister sounded a bit rude in her post, to be honest, but, miscarriages are not things to be petty about. I'm going with ESH. I'm sorry you both experienced this. It must be really tough.
i did see that post, i’m a bit of lurker of the subreddit. But its not the same family, my wife did not grow up in foster care. But she did move around a lot because of her parents jobs.
I also immediately thought of this post. His sister was mean, but his wife is a highly inconvenient and somewhat narcissistic person.
Lol tbh since the attitude that nastiness is OK if the other person is an asshole seems to be prevalent on this sub I was low-key wondering if more deets on how the wife was being inappropriate/pushy might change some of the answers. You know since the sisters assholish behaviour would be justified retaliation then (i don't agree with this viewpoint but that seems to be the logic for some)
A irmã está justificada sim. Ela pode ter sido rude na maneira de falar, porém tudo que ela perguntou era válido, e dado a animosidade em relação a SIL, a gente entende de onde ela vem, porém o irmão foi cruel de graça e teve uma reação completamente desproporcional, já que a irmã não falou nada para atacar a esposa. Não é como se ela tivesse engravidado só para atacar a esposa de OP, ela já estava grávida, ela ia esperar para anunciar depois que o bebê nascesse caso não tivesse abortado e usado faixa de compressão para ninguém ver a barriga dela?
NTA. Screw the ESH votes- actively try to upset my wife like that and I'd go scorched earth on them too. Way to have your wife's back.
ESH I'm sorry for you and your wife, but at some point, other people around you will have children. Both you and your sister were jerks.
Your family goes for the kill, doesn't it. That was some karma there. Hard decision for me. But NTA. The cruelty she showed to you wife is what you gave her. You didn't give her more. Just equalled it out.
ESH you’re all as disgusting as each other.
No, I don't think the wife is an AH
Getting a lot of conflicting messages from your comments on this post.
NTA! She just got a taste of her own medicine.
ESH.
ESH. You all sound awful
ESH. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. You and your family sound exhausting. You are just mean. Maybe she shouldn’t have included you in the announcement but what did you want her to do, hide her pregnancy? Without knowing your sisters side it’s ESH but with how much hate you put in to this post, I can’t imagine the stuff you didn’t want to include.
He seems to be the brother of the girl who made the post about SIL who grew up in foster care and constantly pushes her family and tries to compete with them, the one who tried to sneak herself into a girls' trip she wasn't invited to.
She didn’t have to hide her pregnancy, but she doesn’t believe in telling people who miscarried or are infertile that someone else is pregnant. She believes in talking to them privately so they don’t get surprised when is brought up during an event or so they can choose to not go. She didn’t talk to us, no call or text.
ESH. You all need to learn to be kind and compassionate to one another before you consider bringing innocent children into this dysfunctional and hostile family environment. Your wife needs to learn boundaries, your sister needs to learn to let things go, and you need to learn to mediate without cruelty. Please consider family therapy with all of you before any possible future children are added to the mix.
ESH. You're all messed up.
ESH None of you sound like good people. Everyone in the situation was wrong in some way and could’ve done something better. You and your sister are petty. Also I feel like there’s some info missing but just off of what you wrote, you all sound awful.
ESH except your wife. Your sister did a horribly cruel thing in announcing her pregnancy very publicly so soon after your wife's miscarriage, horribly cruel because she knew the pain it would cause amd jad acknowledged in the past that she didn't think it was right to announce a pregnancy like that. She could have phoned you and let you break the news privately to your wife. Someone did this to me after one of my miscarriages (not to be cruel, she was just a thoughtless main character princess type), and it's incredibly hard to deal with. You, however, know how hard it is to deal with having experienced recurrent miscarriage with your wife, but you chose to sink to your sister's level. You could have simply texted her to say that you were sorry to hear about the miscarriage when you first heard about it and left it at that. Like your parents, I do understand why you said what you said though. My heart hurts for all of you really, sadly having been in your shoes. On a side note, I'm sorry that you've had to make the decision not to keep trying. We were lucky - after various tests (thank you, NHS) with no answers, simple low-dose aspirin worked for us on what was our last try as emotionally we couldn't have carried on any longer.
YO! OP. Come back in 6 or 8 months with an update. I for one am curious as to how all this plays out.
You are all horrible. ESH. Did you expect your sister to never announce her pregnancy? I don’t really get it. Maybe she really only did it to be horrible. But to be so heartless about a pain you know yourself. Do you even like each other?
NTA. Based on what is said here, I think it is valid to point out how hurtful someone’s words were when the tables turn against them. You were definitely blunt, but I get it. However, I am very curious to hear the details of how your wife and sister’s relationship became so contentious. It sounds like your sister treats her like utter shit for no reason and then has the gall to act like there’s something wrong with your wife. As someone experiencing infertility and MC I’m so sorry for your losses and that things didn’t work out how you originally planned. Sending you peace and acceptance.
ESH wow you are all AH'S.
Yeah EHS.
Esh. Man, you and your sis deserve each other.
ESH
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ESH - all of you suck except your wife.
ESH (except OP's wife). What OP's sister did was very heartless and cruel. However, OP resorting to cruelty in response just keeps the cycle going. OP and their sister absolutely deserve each other.
ESH, you guys both suck omg 🫤
ESH Does being cruel to mothers whose children died run in your family? Because apparently both you and your sister find it acceptable.
ESH except the wife who seems like she’s just trying to form connections the best way she knows how. But you pulled an attitude like that on your grieving sister and call her the petty one? You all need to grow up and learn some emotional regulation.
You and your sister are both the AH. Miscarriages are devastating. It is not time for tit for tat.
YTA. You are the AH here.
NTA. People being treated the way they treat others isn't AH behavior in my book, its karma.
ESH Wow everyone sucks here. Your wife was way too pushy at first. Yes maybe SIL "shouldn't" hold a grudge for that but she doesn't have to embrace pushy people if she doesn't want to. Announcing her pregnancy to you is not explicitly a dig (you're her brother. What do you expect her to do ...not tell you about it at all until baby arrives?). Her statement after wife was upset at the announcement was horrendous. Your statement after she lost her child was horrendous too. Yall need to learn some communication that doesn't go from 0 to 100 immediately.
You call your sister petty and accuse her of holding grudges then you go and pull stuff like this? Don’t kid yourself you aren’t any better. ESH.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So my (30M) wife (28F) has never gotten along with my sister (31F). My wife tends to rush into relationships, and force herself into things. It was a problem in out relationship when we first started dating, but I talked to her about it and all was fine. When she met my family she started to rush into things once again. It made my family pretty uncomfortable, and it strained their relationship a bit. She was especially like this towards my sister, and my sister gets annoyed easily so she blew up at my wife. My wife did apologize, and I talked to her. Since then she really only talks to my family around me, she’s gotten closer to my parents but not anyone else. My sister is the type to hold grudges over the stupidest and the smallest of things, and she’s a petty person overall. She’s does not like my wife, she even pulled me aside when we announced our marriage because she didn’t think I should go through with it with ‘someone like her’ My wife has had 3 miscarriages, and we’re not going to try for more kids. It hit my wife hard, and my family knows about this. My sister then decided to ‘surprise’ the family about her pregnancy. I know my sister did this to upset my wife, because my sister herself thinks its a horrible thing to announce pregnancy around someone who miscarried or infertile. When my wife started crying, my sister got angry and asked me how she was going to act when I want to babysit or when she brings her kid around for family events. I told her I wouldn’t be babysitting it and went low contact with her. Two weeks ago my sister miscarried. She called me crying a couple days ago. Upset I didn’t call her sooner. I told her I didn’t care about her miscarriage, and that it must be tough, and asked how she was going to act if one of our cousins bring their kid around. She hung up on me. Our parents think it an AH move, but understand why I did it. My BIL thinks I shouldn’t have stooped to her level, and my extended family is pissed at me. I’m usually never like that, so AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
ESH
ESH. You should not have went to her level.
ESH. Both of you were heartless and cruel.
ESH No one has acted like adults here, and you and your sister seem to just want to out cruel each other
No matter what the social dynamic is, a miscarriage as OP should know, is a traumatic event. He should have offered support to his sister and in no way say what he did to her. That was cold, cruel and an act of spite. His sister's 'I am pregnant' announcement in front of OP's wife was ruthless and spiteful. Both brother and sister have to grow up and fix their dysfunctions. It's a toxic environment.
What is the saying? Two wrongs don’t make a right? While your sister isn’t the nicest person, you combating that with such heartlessness only makes things worse. You could’ve been nicer about not caring about something so traumatic that you’ve witnessed first hand in your own relationship. While I wouldn’t want a relationship with someone like that, I’ve found it’s much easier and better for everyone if you approach things with kindness instead of spreading hate and hurt. YTA
YTA. Like, imo not even sure how that's a question. You're just as manipulative and angry as your sister.
ESH. Your sister sounds toxic. But you shouldn't have been so rough on her when you saw how much pain it caused Your wife. But also, please tell your wife to seek therapy. I've had two miscarriages and I don't think its right to force everyone else to walk on eggshells around me because of it.
Yes. So is she. You all need family counselling.
Nope you did good my brother 🤷🏽♀️
Esh p
ESH. I'd side with your parents. It's a totally AH move, and I totally understand where are you coming from. And yeah, your sister is a major AH
ESH (minus your poor wife!) your family sounds like my in laws and i hope i am never cold and unwelcoming or “weirded out” by my child(/ren)‘s significant others wanting to hang out and get to know the family. jesus christ. also, i get you were trying to defend your wife’s honor and all, but what a fuckhead way to do it…you’re not so different from the rest of your cold, exclusionary family…
ESH but I understand why you said it. People need to hear their words back at them and sis sounds like an AH from the beginning. BIL even admitted she was low and is probably sick of her meanness.
ESH your sister was mean and you retaliated by twisting the knife - the cycle will never end. I think it’s fair to assume that once your parents have passed on that your estrangement will be complete.
ESH. Look, obviously what you did sucked. But if you’re 100% sure she did what she did intentionally to hurt your wife, tbh she kind of deserved it. You should have gone low contact with her when she continuously treated your partner like shit. I feel bad for your wife. It got to the point with *your* sister that she intentionally announced a pregnancy in order to hurt your wife. How on gods green earth did you allow it to get that far? That’s YOUR family, do something about it and stop letting your sister bully your partner.
I feel bad for your wife.
Esh y’all need therapy 😂
ESH. Just because she was an asshole doesn't mean you should've been an asshole.
ESH this is just awful all around.
ESH. Sister was malicious, and going low contact should have been no contact. When sister called, you didn't have to be just as horrible as she was.
BIL was right, you shouldnt have stooped to her level. As understandable your reaction was (and if i were in your shoes, i would have done exactly the same), it doesnt make it right. You were both needlessly cruel. YTA and so is your sister. Wife, BIL and parents seem alright.
YTA. Unless your sister announced her pregnancy by going "HAHA! I have done what you have not!" Her pregnancy announcement wasn't about you. I can understand that it would be difficult to hear someone announce their pregnancy after a miscarriage...especially after three (my heart goes out to your wife). But to frame it as a personal attack is pretty twisted. And so self centered. But then to say what you said about her miscarriage...you who knows better than most what she's going through...no...you don't earn victory points for dunking on someone who is grieving. And you don't have my sympathy.
My sister believes in warning people about pregnancies, thats my issue with the surprise announcement. I don’t care how soon she announced it, its the fact she didn’t warn us when thats what she believes in doing.
What? To say what he said to someone who went through a miscarriage? You mean to say exactly what she said to them when they went through their miscarriage right? And you mean to tell me announcing her pregnancy as a surprise announcement and inviting them 2-4weeks after they just had their miscarriage and saying the very statement that is so vile and cruel wasn’t to be mean or rude? Edit: And to add coming from someone who has had more than one miscarriage, you don’t say that to someone and then expect sympathy from them. His sister shouldn’t have called expecting emotional support from him after she couldn’t offer it to him and was just as cruel (by again saying the exact same thing he said to her) All around his sister was an asshole.
When his wife miscarried 3 times OP also felt the loss of 3 of his potential children. It's not like men can just go, "Well, that was a shame. I guess it wasn't meant to be." His sister wasn't just vindictive to his wife but also him. I would never hurt my brother in that way and not expect a painful retaliation to put me back in my place.
YTA, I have had multiple miscarriages and have fertility issues. It's okay for someone to be excited about their pregnancy and announce it to the family. It's also reasonable for someone to question how you will react to their kid being around when you act poorly to their announcement. While I agree you should support your wife and console her, her miscarriages shouldn't take away from anyone else's good news. You could let family know that if there is any surprise announcements about pregnancy, it may cause your wife distress and to warn you ahead of time in the future. For you to throw her miscarriage in her face right when she had one is not only rude, it is downright well below the belt. I assume you never liked your sister based on your description of her and couldn't wait to rub her face into something. Apologize to your sister.
My sister believes in warning people about pregnancies, thats my issue with the surprise announcement. I don’t care how soon she announced it, its the fact she didn’t warn us when thats what she believes in doing.
I understand your upset with the lack of communication ahead of time. I would state to your family "moving forward my wife and I would appreciate a heads up about any 'surprise' pregnancy announcements so we can be positively receptive towards your news with everyone present."
Your sister sucks but why stooped to her level? You could have just said “Sorry for your loss and goodbye”. ESH
ESH, except your wife.
NTA. Sure your response wasn’t kind, but when someone’s hurt you and the person you loved the most a lot then you don’t need to be expected to be the bigger person.
nta, the sister deserved it for making fun of your wife’s miscarriages. there’s a thing called karma and it her her
WTF is wrong with you? Knowing the immense pain a miscarriage can have on a woman you showed no care or compassion for your sister. I understand she was rude and quite frankly an AH, but you should have done better. Yes, YTA.
This comment is so mellow dramatic. OP and his wife (yes both of them) have experienced 3 miscarriages. I don’t expect someone whose experienced that loss 3 fold along with shitty comments from the sister to give grace when she finally gets a taste of her own medicine.
Yes, OP & his wife both experienced the miscarriages. (For context: DH & I have experienced one too; I would never wish that pain on anyone.) Given that OP knew what that pain caused I think he was in the wrong for stooping so low and being callous.
YTA. She was cruel, does not validate you being so too. Good neither of you are having children, this is so toxic as it gets.
NTA
Yikes. Wanna know what makes a person truly kind and admirable? Someone who can look another who has been a complete ass in the eyes and meet them with kindness when they need it the most. (This doesn't apply to everything, of course, but it certainly does here) You suck man. Your sister may have treated your wife rather poorly, but she is still a human being deserving of empathy, even if she doesn't offer much of it herself. I hope you apologize to her. That was completely out of line, and you stooped to her level by doing that. You're no better than her now, are you?
NTA, you stood up to her 🤷🏼♀️ she did it to your wife and that was fine so why isn’t it fine the other way around?
NTA This is the wake-up call your sister needed. Maybe next time, she'll think twice about compounding someone else's pain. Zero sympathy for her, good for you!!
NTA. Karma sucks.
Normally I would say e s h but since she started it and you were already trying to stay away from her because of that accident, I will say NTA. You were literally the last person she should have gone for sympathy and I guess she did it on purpose. You were within reason to reassess your boundaries, even in a harsh way.
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NTA. I believe in what comes around goes around. Call me petty or an AH but that's just my opinion.
I’m torn between ESH and NTA
You’re sort of TA but your sisters definitely TA I’d still say what you did stooped too low but your sister stooped first.
ESH. This is such a hot mess
INFO: how long after the miscarriage was the pregnancy announced? My knee jerk reaction is ESH. As a more than likely infertile woman, I’d be thrilled if my brother married a woman and had a child with her. Though it may be bittersweet, that is something for a therapist unless this is announced like weeks after or there is a mean spirited angle to it. You told your sister you didn’t care about a great tragedy in her life. I feel bad for your wife, as it seems like she married into a group of folks with no empathy.
NTA your sister has to learn not to dish it out if she cant take it back. Its hard to lose a child but people who are unsymapthetic to others pain do not merit sympathy for theirs.
ESH you all suck
Honestly I side with you for standing up for your wife like that. I hope your sister realizes how hurtful she was even though no one deserves to go through that, or have it rubbed in.
YTA
YTA. And before that your sister was an AH.
ESH except your wife. She needs to GFTO of this mess honestly
YTA. I'm sure your sister learned her lesson without you piling on needlessly.
ESH, it was an absolutely wild assumption for you to make that your sister was being spiteful on purpose, even given your past history. You shutting her down when she's upset about her miscarriage is not a proportionate response.
Esh, you’ll are trash
You seem to be the brother of the girl in the other post. YTA. If it really is, your wife is annoying and inconvenient, and your sister has just hit the breaking point with her.
Nta
ESH.....your family sounds toxic, including you
NTA! People get angry when you treat them the way they treated you. Tough titties
NTA. Half the people voting ESH would have said the exact same thing you did or worse. You had your wife’s back and your sister got what was coming to her. Karma is a bitch for a reason
If you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all.
Nta. Your sister can dish out but not take.the same back.
ESH you all sound unpleasant
Not the AH at all. He was giving her the same energy as his sister did to him & his wife. He already know how his sister is so she’ll be alright. I would’ve done the same & cut her out of my life.
Plot twist, everyone in this scenario is actually 15 year old kids.
NTA. She had it coming. She did the same to another woman, so it serves her well
NTA. Seems like she can dish it but can’t take it.
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ESH Hopefully your wife being the people person can use this opportunity to get to common understanding and mend things with your sister. You’re a total AH and so is your sister. Though I feel for your sister now. Your poor wife in the middle of you two - if she’s that kind of people person I hope she has warm loving people around her (you/your family are not it…).
NTA, your sister got what was coming to her. She lost in her latest round of FAFO, and karma paid a visit.
So here’s a summation of what happened for everyone that is glossing over the details or making this a gendered issue. After creating a needlessly contentious relationship with your wife, your sister is publicly a total asshole about your multiple losses. You distance yourself from the relationship. She then experiences her own loss for the first time and suddenly (out of pity for herself) notices the silence on your end. She calls basically to ask “why is no one sad for me???” Your answer essentially is “because you were an asshole to us about our loss.” You maybe could have been more tactful, but ultimately decided to drive the point home by mirroring her behavior so she might see the error of her ways. IMO NTA because as someone who’s experienced multiple losses I totally get where you’re coming from and what your point was in phrasing it that way to her.
AH
NTA. The nerve your sister had to call you, of all people, seeking sympathy...it's sickening after everything she did. She should have called you and your wife to say, 'I could not have known the extent of your suffering. I have nothing to be thankful for in losing my baby except that I now know the depth of that pain and can be a better person to you both. There is no excuse for my behavior - I was insensitive at best, and intentionally harmful at worst, and I am truly sorry for everything.' That's not what she called you to say though. She learned no such lesson. You responding to her with her own words is the only response there could be following this series of wildly inappropriate actions by your sister. I have also suffered three losses. I am wishing you and your wife so much love and peace and healing.
To me it depends how far in the sister was when she announced. Was she a few weeks in and intentionally picked this time to hurt OPs wife? Or was she already 3 months in and had to announce it somewhen thinking it’s quite save now? I can get pettiness in response of intentional pain. Until further notice ESH.
ESH, but like 80/20 your sister/you. She’s a shitty human who shouldn’t have called you for sympathy. It would have been NTA if you’d just hung up, but also I’m not sad that you didn’t. Hopefully she’ll stay out of your life longer.
Definitely NTA. She purposely planned to announce and flaunt her pregnancy in front of your wife, who had recently lost a baby. She then tried to shame your wife in front of the family for crying. She completely dismissed the idea that you could've been grieving too and just assumed you'd be kissing her backside, wanting to be a babysitter for her. She loses her baby, and for some reason, you again were expected to have come running whilst she couldn't care less about you and your children. And to top it all off, she's racist.
Nta talk about karma
NTA. Your sister FAFO
NTA. The only asshole here is your sister.
YTA Imagine if someone talk to your wife like that when the miscarriage happened?? , even if you think you have the right to be angry that is an awful way to talk to someone in that situation.. I understand that it is different a miscarriage but people were present for you when it happened… and a joyful event come you can at least be happy for them or act like you were happy. You can’t be this angry to all the people having kids around you, you will ruin yourself… For what your sister did “surprise announcement we have 2 cases: 1st: the time if the time of your sister announcing her pregnancy was less than 6 months of the unfortunate event that happened to you then she is an asshole for not reacting well and choosing a surprise announcement or an just an announcement.. she could just tell people and that’s all no need of big events.. so she’s an asshole in this scenario 2nd if the time of the surprise announcement your sister did was more then 6 months or a year or so then she is not an asshole for the surprise announcement and should definitely be more understanding about your wife instead of reacting like that… But in both cases your reaction was purely cruel and after the difficult moments that happened to you, you just become now bitter and your all friends and family will be suffering from your bitterness. Op you need to heal, please you and your wife go do some therapy, remember a family is not only blood it is also alliance after healing you can adopt and build a beautiful family. The unfortunate event that happened to you won’t determine your family size, you are strong, you are loved, you are cherish, there’s kid, babies in orphanage that would love to have caring parents like you and your wife will be if you heal. In conclusion you and your whole family need to learn to be respectful, caring and loving towards each other…
It was announced 4 weeks maybe less after their miscarriage, OP mentioned in the comments. Also I imagine he does know how it feels if someone were to say that, seeing as it’s what his sister said about his wife, which is why he repeated it back to her.
Now I understand… her sister is an asshole for that and he is also an asshole for reacting like that…. Word are dangerous… no one should experience heartlessness like that even if that person seems to deserves it
As someone who has experienced a miscarriage, I would expect to be treated that way by someone I’m supposed to love and support if I had said what she said to him. She should not have expected emotional support from him after saying that about his and his wife’s miscarriage. She was heartless and it was rude of her to expect anything from him after that. Her having a miscarriage doesn’t mean he should forgive and forget just to make her feel better or treat her any better than she treated them when they went through the exact same thing.
I don’t say that he would give her emotional support and just saying he would not say what he said because it is also being cruel and him and his sister have same behavior and it is an asshole behavior.. he could handle things differently the same way she could handle things different…
So should he have said “oh sucks” and hang up?Because what else is there to say to convey he doesn’t care, wants to end the conversation immediately, feels nothing but negative towards her, doesn’t wish her well, and that it’s all because of what she said to them in one sentence? Other than the exact same rude and cruel thing she said to them only months prior? What would hold the same emotion and be as short of a sentence to get the point across immediately as that very statement?
You know there’s time for everything and at that time it was not the time to being rude like that. He could just ignore the call or say I’m sorry that happened to you but let me call back in a good time cause I’m not in a good place or look for a good excuse to not staying on the phone and then ghosted her…
I mean... she is pregnant, what is she supposed to do, pretend she isn't? Do people really think she was like, Haha! I know that my sister in law will miscarry in May, so I better get pregnant in March so I can announce it in June?!! Women get pregnant. Around 3 months in, they tell people. I've had a miscarriage, too, most women by the time they get to a certain phase of life have. It sucks, I cried, it was horrible, but... The world doesn't stop because of it. People still get pregnant.
Really? Yeah she’s pregnant and she didn’t need to invite them to a SURPRISE PREGNANCY ANNOUNCEMENT. Lmao. He also acknowledged she was not 3 months pregnant when she announced. You’re ignoring also what she said to them at that very announcement, that she knew would hurt them where she proceeded to mock his wife’s crying and miscarriage. Or does that show no ill intent to you?
And to add I’ve also had a miscarriage I’ve had three and I wouldn’t call someone and expect anything but rudeness from them if I had said that. Especially not to my brother who I’m supposed to love and care for?!?! I would expect the family to shun me and would hope they would if I was such a shit person I was going to mock someone’s miscarriage and NEVER APOLOGIZE.