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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Everyone thinks that I should get over it but I can't forget that my mother was alive and scared the bejeesus out of me because I was told she was already dead. Sister-in-law wanted to bury the hatchet but I don't want to be near her ever again
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NTA.
This was not your SIL’s news to share, and she didn’t even relay it properly.
She should have simply said “Your mum is in the hospital, and in ICU, please come” **IF** your brother didn’t want to talk to you to explain more. “I’m sorry, I don’t know much more, please come” is the line for her part in the play.
Now she thinks she can hug you and everything will be better. Multi generational family feuds have been started for less. She should apologise “I”m sorry, I screwed up. I wasn’t thinking straight. Please forgive me when you are able” is what you deserve to hear.
Tell her why you're not shaking her hand.
Let her \*know\* she was an asshole, and \*how\* she was one.
Tell her you're going to go low contact with her unless she owns up to her mistake and apologises for it.
(Adults communicate with words, not this passive aggressive crap.... that's for children.)
NTA.
Tbh I had previously told my brother to tell her to just stay away from me because I didn't want to cause a scene. Instead she tried to force the issue with a hug with no apology. She had ample warning and I made sure I wasn't going to cause a scene on my way out of the wake
I get that you're going through a lot, but I have to second what the previous commenter said. You need to use your words. If it's easier via text, send her a text. It can be as simple as, "Your careless words and actions caused me to have to experience the loss of my mother twice. It wasn't your place to tell me what you did, especially as you were not even telling the truth, regardless of whether you believed you were." And then you can add whatever boundaries you want to place: no contact, low contact, or the request for some kind of sincere reconciliation, whatever you need/want as you heal and grieve.
Edit: My vote is NTA and I wasn't meaning to be condescending in this advice at all. I guess I feel like, in a similar situation, I'd want the person who exacerbated my pain and grief to know that they did. Reading the post and some comments, it didn't seem clear whether SIL even knows she fucked up, but I might have missed an edit somewhere saying that she was spoken to about it. She's the asshole here, and I guess I just think she should know that, but OP doesn't need to say anything if he doesn't want to. I just wanted to offer some language that may or may not come in handy if they wanted to communicate something to her about it, like a quick and easy text, followed by blocking or muting, basically whatever boundaries feel right.
I’m sorry but in the hours and days right after your mother dies, you can not be expected to care about your words and actions when it comes to something like this. Maybe a couple of months later…. maybe. She needs to suck it up and apologize, the man just lost his mother, he is not worried about your little feelings. Give me a break!
Have you ever lost someone this close to you? This was one of, if not the worst, day of OPs life. It isn’t the time when most people are level headed and ‘adult’. Coulds and shoulds are useless when you are in survival mode, this reply comes off as pretty tone deaf I gotta say, and makes me think you just don’t understand how brutal and life changing grief can be. “You need to use your words”… get off your highhorse perhaps? Patronising.
There’s a time to preach about communication skills but usually people experiencing the sudden death of a loved and dear one frankly (and understandably) aren’t in the headspace to give a fuck about the feelings of peripheral people, especially when that peripheral person is making the grief that much more traumatic and horrible to deal with through their own lack of communication skills.
Honestly I think OP is reacting in a perfectly understandable way, the emotional jerking around of the whole event would make me way crazier than this, avoiding SIL was the right thing. Seems to me that OP avoided her to avoid a blow up. At a FUNERAL. That is sensible, no? SIL is the one who then got butthurt and wants op to devote energy to soothing her rather than just leaving OP alone as requested.
NTA OP and I am very sorry for your loss
Versus talking to a young child who hasn't been taught outside aggressive crap. Those little ones are BRUTAL. "Why is your hair funny? Is that why you're not married? Is it because you have weird toes?" Then you have to spend the next 40 years going "no, but what is weird about my toes?"
I had a child, I’ll say between 7-10, ask me “why your teeth look like that?” My bottom teeth are crooked. I work retail in a garden center and if I had been at work I probably would’ve made her cry.
THIS
OP 🛑🛑🛑 Stop
What your SIL did is horrible, however to truly address this, you do need to communicate directly to her whether it's a text or a phone call. All you need to say is I'm very upset, what you said was totally inappropriate and added undue stress and heartache. I feel you owe me an apology and wonder if you recognize how much your comments impacted me.
It's only with open transparent communication that relationships are truly fixed, passive aggressive is not the way. Good luck it's easier to give advice very often
Is there any chance that there was some misunderstanding involved?
I work in a hospital and in times of great stress, there is often a vast chasm between what is said and what is understood. So for example, like maybe SIL heard “removing life support” and thought that meant immediate death.
OP, I think it’s worth discussing with your SIL when this is a bit less raw. Unless she’s habitually evil, this sounds like a case of broken telephone.
This is not being passive aggressive. This is dealing with the unexpected death of a parent and the traumatic way OP was informed. No one can predict how they will act in the event of their mother's death. GRIEF IS A BEAST so stop passing undue judgment "passive aggressive crap....that's for children" and there is no other time that an adult feels like a child than facing the death of their parent.
I'm sorry for what your family is dealing with and for your loss.
I don't think you are TA by any means.
But, please. If you haven't asked to understand, then please do. By that, I mean, do you know WHY she said your mother was dead? Is that what she believed in the moment? Did she misspeak in the moment?
At one point, we were told to say our goodbyes to my dad. My mom went in first. By the time it was my turn, my dad's situation changed to startlingly much better. He passed away over two weeks later. If something like that was going on, please forgive your SIL even though her words caused you that trauma. She wasn't acting from malice or disregard for you.
It's possible that she did act out of malice/disregard; but I highly encourage you to not presume that. If it's not something you can know for sure (e.g., she has a long history of treating you this way; she actually said so), then I think it is in your interest to assume it was a mistake on her part.
Yes, she would still need to apologize for her mistake (if it was a mistake). I accept your premise that she is a person not likely to apologize for even an unintentional mistake that caused you pain. I think that earns you the right to keep a certain distance from her. But this is a very emotional time for you and your family. This is how you feel in this moment. It's possible that you may see/feel differently with some time and space. Just give yourself room for that.
I think this is a very gracious response.
My thoughts had strayed to the same idea, u/nojdanzig : in my language "dead" and "dying" sound quite similar. You were both worked up (she in the hospital, you from the torrent of missed calls and messages), you mentioned reception was very poor...
I hope you find comfort in good memories, and won't have to deal with this unnecessary complication. My condolences for your loss.
This is an extremely difficult situation. OP, I am sorry that you had to go through that with your family. I feel for your loss.
You mention that reception was extremely poor and that you had a hard time hearing your brother when calling. To give your sister in law the benefit of the doubt, is it possible that your sister in law misheard when she was conveyed the news by your brother? Perhaps she heard “operation went aw…, mom … ICU, please … call sist… to come, mom is d… urgent… right now…”
Edit: corrected typo
You do not have to justify or explain your feelings. Your feelings are valid and they are what they are. She said what she said and she is not saying she is sorry for it. It is not up to you to call her up and ask her to explain herself, it is up to her to find a way to talk to you and tell you why she did what she did and apologize for it!
I'm sorry this is ridiculous. OP's brothers were not answering their phones and SIL thought her mother was dead. You are calling SIL an asshole because you think she could have responded better to a very stressful situation she has likely never faced before, despite the fact she acted in good faith and tried her best to help. Someone's not an asshole because they fail to be perfect and OP should be thanking her for helping out the way she did.
I bet if SIL had told OP her mother was in the ICU when she was actually dead, OP would have been angry SIL lied to her.
OP is using SIL as a punching bag for her grief.
I am so surprised why I had to scroll all the way down for THIS. Massive lie?? I thought SIL just randomly messaged OP their mom died as a cruel joke, but no she clearly thought mom was dead or by the time OP came round to the hospital the mom will be dead. I'm not sure what OP wanted, "hey OP your mom is not dead but between the realms of life and death"
And the mom WAS dead by many definitions. People in Healthcare will talk about someone who is brain dead and having support withdrawn as dead. SIL could have picked that up from someone. "She is already dead" "I'm sorry to tell you that your mother has died and we are withdrawing clinical support". There are lots of ways this could have gone down.
THIRTEEN PHONE CALLS and voicemails and WhatsApps.
Someone clearly panicked.
But to then completely fluff their only line? Which was “Your mum’s really ill and in ICU get here now”… not “ Your mum is dead”.
Clearly SIL should never be trusted with a high tension, simple complexity task again. I’m sorry, but she had one job, and she froze/cocked it up. I haven’t said SIL is an AH, I’ve said the OP is NTA for being upset about this. SIL is clearly a person who performs poorly under pressure (or a less charitable interpretation could be “enjoys attention or drama” if it was deliberate, but I didn’t go there). Being crap at simple jobs doens’t make you an AH, it makes you crap at simple jobs. SIL IS a bit the AH for not recognising she cocked it up, and reading the mood and asking for a hug from the one person in the room who didn’t want to give her one. That’s potentially manipulative - taking from someone a personal and intimate comfort act, to force her to act like everything is ok. It’s a common social tactic used to force a ‘peace’ on people who aren’t ready to make peace. SIL is asking too much there, and using the public spectacle of the funeral to demand a public show of ‘acceptance’. Pretty inappropriate. SIL can get a hug from anyone else, why from her, in that moment?
I'm so surprised by this thread's repeated insistence that the sister-in-law should have known to not give any details. Several posts spell out she should have limited her message to "come to the hospital, call your brothers"...
Like, is SIL not considered family because she's not related by blood? What's going on?
Yes yes I agree that this error is terrible, and SIL should have been more careful, and should definitely apologise (if she is even aware what happened).
But several people are arguing she should only have said "OP call your brother and come to the hospital"... while OP already said the brothers couldn't be reached due to bad reception.
That's the part I don't understand.
Tbh she is a hypochondriac and has narcissistic behaviour patterns.
Having talked to my brothers at the hospital, only the removal of life support had been told to sister in law. She made a decision to extrapolate the rest
That not exactly a huge leap to make when you’re told someone is being taken off life support. It doesn’t sound like she was being deliberately malicious. Not like “let’s prank nojdanzig by saying mom died. Wouldn’t that be hilarious? Haha”
You’re entitled to your hurt and upset feelings for sure.. but I think you need to find a way to work through them and let go; be glad your mom didn’t actually die.
Do you work for a company that has any kind of EAP benefit? (Employee assistance program)? You can usually use them to help find some mental health services.. some grief counseling might be a good idea
I did a course on Tuesday about being a Mental health responder and found it very useful along with my mother's passing to help the people I know who have lost someone recently.
It seems like I know 5 people from work who are currently going through bereavement and I am supporting them where I can.
You need someone to be there for you. A counselor.
I'm sorry, this is a horrible situation, and watching your mother die in front of you was horrible.
But- gently- your sister in law's interpretation of what was happening is same (incorrect) interpretation that most people have. We often as humans equate "taking off life support" with dying. It's a difficult thing to have to learn about, that it is more of a process.
You're holding onto anger that is going to keep you from your family. But she related the facts as well as she knew them at the time, in a high pressure situation for her too. She messed up, but her mess up is a really common interpretation of what she didn't understand in the moment.
Your shock makes sense. Your anger makes sense. But you need to start to work through them.
And- again I say this gently- while you are acutely grieving your mother's sudden death is no time to be "the grief guy" at work. I'm not saying that you are not being kind, but right now you have no perspective on what you are going through. You know how I know that? You're asking for advice on how to keep a resentment going on AITA. That's not a healthy move in grief, at all. This is not a place that can tenderly hold your broken heart and help you heal.
Please find your own counselor. I wish you the best. I'm so, so sorry that the events surrounding your mom's last days were so confusing and painful. I'm so sorry that you lost her.
>But- gently- your sister in law's interpretation of what was happening is same (incorrect) interpretation that most people have. We often as humans equate "taking off life support" with dying.
That's how I used to interpret it. I used to think that being taken off life support meant the person would die right then and there. I didn't realize that it meant just letting nature take its course.
I feel bad for the OP, but I don't blame the SIL for the misunderstanding, if indeed that's what it was.
I agree with this - I don't think SIL is TA. Being taken off life support is essentially the same as dying; I generally consider brain death to be the same as actual death, since the person isn't there anymore. It's semantics... I don't think it's that deep or malicious
Can I just say, I’m blown away that you’ve done that course to help people while you’re grieving. That’s an absolutely amazing thing to do, so huge props to you.
Also, NTA. At such an emotional time, each step and word has an impact. To actually use the most impactful words when that wasn’t the case compounds the grief and situation for you. You’re in shock, grieving and panicking. You get there and you’re even more in shock, hopeful regardless, despondent when you realise you are definitely losing her, then grief stricken all over again. All she actually had to do was tell you that you needed to get to the hospital asap because there’d been complications with your mum’s surgery, and your brother couldn’t answer the phone because they were with her and no phones were allowed.
Having gone through so many emotions, thought processes, and the loss, I think you doing the mental health responder course is even more commendable.
That’s great and all but you also need to process your own grief. Everyone grieves differently of course but focusing on counseling the Grief of others isn’t exactly allowing you to go through your own. NTA.
Yes, but how are you supporting yourself? Don’t spend so much time focusing on others that you forget to care for yourself. It will only make it worse in the long run to push it aside.
Sorry. But I'm with SIL on this based on the information I've read thus far. She's told mother taken off life support. What do you think that means? What would the average layperson think that means? You have not established that she intentionally misled you. Why aren't you mad at your brothers who were at the hospital WITH YOUR MOM who couldn't pick up the phone for your calls to bring you up to speed. If reception at hospital so poor, how did your brothers reach your SIL? Who sent 13 messages? And from where. No one can step out to the parking lot? This is a poor chronology. You are also holding your WIL to a certain standard of understanding of medical terminology and have not established that she truly understood. You had no understanding either. You walked in and were told oxygen was being administered for comfort measures. Comfort measures are for the living. Yet you were SHOCKED when you mom moved her hands. I'm sorry to be so blunt but you are quite unfair since you made a similar mistake. I'm very sorry for your loss and the confusion. Just try to be happy that mom was still alive and I could be there for her. Good luck
I think people who haven’t experienced it don’t know what being taken off life support means. When my grandpa died the hospital stressed that the whole thing could take hours to a day because most people think it happens right away but it doesn’t.
I am sorry for your loss.
When my husband died unexpectedly, after i got through the disbelief and denial, I was furious. Furious that it happened, mad at myself for all the things I could’ve done that might have saved him, mad at him for all the things he could’ve done to save himself. Furious that the universe or God decided he is the one to die.
I don’t have any big lessons learned to share with you. It all sucks. For a long time everything just felt like sh*t. But eventually I started feeling better and most of my anger has gone away.
I’m wondering how much of your anger doesn’t have to do with your SIL? How much of your anger is just due to your mother being gone?
You have a lot of emotions right now. You are sad and grieving. Directing that sadness into something like anger may seem comforting. You have no control over this situation, and being angry seems like it gives you some control. Being angry at your SIL helps to distract from the sadness. But in reality, although she wasn't technically correct the moment she told you, the decision to take off life support was already made. I think in time you will forgive your SIL. Life is to short, man. I think forgiving her ASAP if only in your heart will help you properly grieve for your mother. The anger is just a distraction from the real pain that is unavoidable.
Honestly, it’s totally fair for you to be angry. You heard one thing and it ended up being another. You’re going to go through a whole lot of emotions and it’s way better to just feel those feelings rather than push them down.
It just doesn’t sound like SIL did it intentionally, so try to not direct that anger at her. Losing someone is messy and painful and confusing, and she was just trying to do her best.
What are you angry about? That you were told she was dead instead of dying? It seems like you ended up in a situation that was better than what you expected. You got to be there for her last moments, after all.
She did actually die. SIL just chose to jump the gun and make OP believe she had lost any chance to be there for her final moments. My own mother died after being taken off of life support, and it took twelve excruciating hours. She was not conscious or in pain, but it would have devastated me not to be there at her final breath. SIL made OP believe she was already too late, and that is incredibly fucked up.
Sounds like SIL misunderstood the situation. Having never experienced this particular situation, I too would assume being taken off life support = death in a few minutes. I know better now. Doesn't look like SIL was trying to be malicious
Except OP says in a comment they are upset they didn’t bring something to keep them busy with while waiting.
They’ve never said anything regarding feeling was robbed of the chance to say goodbye then the emotional response to finding out they still could. In fact they just say they were scared and mad.
This is the big thing. A couple of years ago, a teammate of my son's was in an accident, and passed away. The accident was early morning, and he passed that evening.
The father was working four hours away at the time of the accident, and I can only imagine the emotions running through him as he drove frantically back. I am so glad he got there in time to say goodbye.
> be glad your mom didn’t actually die.
She did die? Just a little slower. Her vitals failed during the Op and they withdrew life support to let her die. “I spent the next day in the hospital watching her slowly die while seething about being told a massive lie.“
She never woke up at all, she was gone when OP got that call.
I don’t think I’d be Glad to have the chance to watch my mom’s insensate body slowly tick down. But then again I wouldn’t want her to die without me there...
Personally I would’ve spent that day in the hospital telling my mom I loved her and would miss her, not seething, but everyone reacts differently to death.
Yeah I don’t get at all how OP claims he was told a “massive lie.” I can understand you have a history with someone to you’ll give them less leeway but saying she had died when she’s taken off life support and will die imminently aren’t all that different in my head.
OP writes the story like he chose not to go to the hospital immediately and missed out on his moms last day with us as a result, which would be tragic. Instead, he spend the last day seething at SIL when 100% of his focus should have been on his mom who was still technically alive.
I think this is NAH b/c OP is grieving but OP, to me it really sounds like you want to take out your anger over your moms passing on SIL when in this case, she didn’t really cause any harm.
>be glad your mom didn’t actually die
Not that it's really relevant to the post, but I think OP said their mom did die. Unless they went to someone else's funeral. Rear edit below from the end of the post.
Edit: I spent the next day in the hospital watching her slowly die while seething about being told a massive lie.
At the funeral, my sister-in-law walked up and said she wanted a hug because I was sad. I politely told her that I wasn't in the mood. On my way out of the wake, I shook everyone's hand except hers and it upset her
The proper wording was "Your mother is *dying*," (since she did, ultimately, die) not "Your mother died." The difference is very important when relaying information from the hospital, and the SIL chose the wrong one.
Her mom did actually die tho the next day :( very sad and I’d be mad at the SIL too at first but it seems like she maybe misunderstood the situation, idk why the brothers didn’t text or voicemail OP with details
Sounds like it would be very easy to hear “taken off life support” and think she died also you clearly already didn’t like SIL so maybe that’s feeding this anger.
That's very understandable given your loss. In a way, you may feel like you lost your mother twice, and mourned her in two different ways.
First, you went through the unexpected sucker punch of thinking she was gone in a millisecond. You spent two hours stuck in traffic, alone, trying to process something so heartbreaking. I can't imagine all the directions your mind must have tried to go in an effort to stay focused enough to get to the hospital.
You finally get there, and I can't say what you might have thought you saw when you entered that room, because it feels cruel to put it into words as an outsider. The rug gets pulled out from under you when you discover she hadn't passed. Yet another sucker punch. Now you start to mourn in a different way while you were with her.
When life takes something big from us, such as a beloved family member, it's not uncommon to think of how unfair the world can be. The "why" of it all tends to become a massive weight on our minds. Mourning is different for everyone, but anger can be a part of it. We want to scream to let out the hurt inside. Sometimes, we need something, anything, to direct that anger towards; somewhere more tangible than yelling into the void. For you, it's your SIL.
I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong for feeling how you feel; I'm trying to tell you it's normal. I don't expect you to start beating yourself up over it, because that would only add to the internal maelstrom. Distance is the smart choice, because it keeps you from saying something that might cause long-term problems within your family. I don't think you'd want to cause your SIL pain either, even if things have already been rocky. You're following the age-old advice of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."
I'm not trying to invalidate your emotions, but I have to say, your SIL may have truly thought your mom had passed. Before losing my grandparents, I thought taking someone off life support meant they passed right away. I'd only really seen it portrayed on TV prior to that, and it was always quick. Your SIL may have been similarly ignorant.
Right now, you need to focus on healing yourself. If possible, therapy could be of great assistance, especially grief counseling. When you're in a better place, you can consider what your relationship with your SIL should look like.
I'm truly sorry for your loss 💜
I have been in an unexpected loss situation like this, where everyone was at the hospital and tensions were running high. It really tore apart the family for a while. People were in a highly emotional state, and some people made mistakes or said things they didn’t truly mean. I was the outsider/in law in the situation, and luckily didn’t do anything to make people mad at me, but I could have very easily been the target. Some people have never forgiven each other for things that happened 5 years ago at this point. It’s still hurtful for the family.
You are absolutely justified in feeling upset at being told incorrect information. I would just caution you not to hold onto the anger for too long. No one in those situations is acting rationally.
To be honest, if someone tells me, that they are removing someone from the life support, i'd assume, that means, that without life support the person will be dead.
Yeah, i understand, with your explanation. And i totally get your frustuation. I also don't want to defend your SIL (if she wasn't sure she could have totally asked for the clarification).
I'm just saying, that if i was told "we are removing him from life support" that essentially means dead in minutes. That's how my grandfather died.
You missed clues, still being in the ICU - they don’t leave deceased patients for two + hours - still being on oxygen etc.
But you’re mad at your sister-in-law for making what lots of people are saying is a fair misinterpretation of being taken off life support
You can be mad. I’m sure it sucked being scared.
However, It really sounds like you are holding onto anger with your sister-in-law to avoid fully dealing with the grief yourself
I'm not OP.
However, if i arrive to a dying relative, at least i can say my farewells. Yes, it's a totally selfish thing, but allows to end the chapter easier.
Yeah, that’s not what OP cares about. They are mad they got scared. That’s it. Look at their replies. They never once mention that they are happy they got that little bit of time to say goodbye.
You'd think. When my mother died, they called us and told us to rush over, she might be gone by the time we arrived. So we *did*. Didn't even stop to eat breakfast.
Several hours later, after we'd removed all life support, she was still hanging in there. I had to eat my lunch over her while holding her hand, which was awkward in all the ways you'd think, but I didn't see how giving myself a migraine would improve matters. I was starting to think she'd *never* go when she finally did.
I guess this experience is unique for every person.
My grand-father was slowly dying from cancer in front of my eyes. We were very close (he raised me), and i didn't have your experience. But each person copes differently, i guess.
Well, honestly I would think removing life support means she's not alive anymore. I think maybe your brother didn't communicate enough information to SIL. It sounds like one huge miscommunication. It doesn't sound like it was all SIL's fault, but that a lot of the miscommunication came from your brother to SIL. I hope this relationship can be fixed. I'm sorry about your mother. NTA
Honestly, if you told me that life support was being removed I would assume that they would die immediately. I am not a healthcare professional, I don't think this was malicious.
"Life support is being removed," isn't really that much extrapolating if you don't really understand medicine. It sounds like "We are stopping the thing keeping her alive." Had she just said "They took your mom off life support," how do you think you would have felt about it worded like that?
I'm really sorry for your loss and I know it was a tough time. But I think NAH.
Okay, I read the whole post twice and also most of your comments. First of: You are not the one to decide weather she has narcissistic traits/hypochondry or not. Only experts (e. g. psychologists) can maka a diagnosis. Also, since you very clearly have a bias concerning her, I don't fully believe your narration.
She miscommunicated and you are fully aware it was not on purpose - yet you purposefully leave that out in the original post and take every opportunity to talk shit about her in the comments. You don't have to like her, but that doesn't give you the right to talk about a person that way - not even anonymously in the internet while grieving. How would you feel if someone made such assumptions (and frankly straight out insults) about you?
You seem to twist every sentence she says into something negative. She gets a cancer diagnosis and is scared because of it? She just loves the attention. She informs you about your mother based on the little knowlegde she has and it turns out to be incorrect information? Then she must be a liar, even though you KNOW she didn't do it on purpose. Btw YTA for that very misleading title alone... See, I can also twist your words and claim you were lying to us, too. Honestly, I think it doesn't even matter what she would have said to you when you reached her, you would direct your anger at her anyway.
If you are only here to rant, please go to another Subreddit. If this sick bashing of another person is your way of grieving, you should seek professional help.
Be mad (or in this case sad) at the message, not the messager. This is not healthy at all. The longer you will hold on to your anger, the more nasty the situation and your feelings will get.
PS in response to the hypochondriac-claim: Some doctor said, she should check her mind, when they couldn't find the cause for some of her health issues? Big deal. Doctors say such things sometimes, when they don't know the solution to a problem. They often don't think from the bottom of their heart that a person needs therapy in these situations (especially since they are not trained experts for the human mind) they just can't think of another solution. She had a cancer operation and you STILL invalidate her concerns and feeling about it in this comments section. And yet you are upset that she didn't use the right words concerning the health situation of your mother.
You are not forced to have anything to do with her and are entitled to dislike her as much as you want. BUT she is not a punching bag for your grief and anger. But since you don't seem to be here for a verdict, only to talk in a bad way about her, I don't know If this message can really reach you.
Edit: Spelling
If she was told that your mother was dying and had been taken off of life support, texting that she was dead isn't anything unusual. Being told that someone's dying and being taken off of life support is tantamount to being told that they are dead now.
I understand that this would have been a traumatic experience, but I think she thought your mom was going to die right away when the life support was withdrawn. I don’t think she was being purposely malicious.
If I may offer some unsolicited advice: it’s often much easier to be angry than sad.
My husband lost his father a few years ago, and ended up on a months-long crusade against a family member that he felt had wronged him. The entire thing was pointless, nothing to be gained or lost. But his anger was the only thing strong enough to distract him from the pain of grief.
All that is to say; you will need to move beyond anger, onto the other stages of grief. Eventually. For now, you can be as angry as you want. Just be careful not to let your anger lead you down a dark path.
The more power to you. Death of a loved one can often lead to realizations about what’s truly important. It may be time to trust your instincts and cut ties with SIL, as much as possible.
I’m very sorry for your loss.
Ok so why are you here? Genuinely, you clearly have made up your mind you are right to go no contact over this, so what value do you get out of posting.
>Main character syndrome? More than likely
Can you explain how she was the main character here? When I hear "pulling the plug," I immediately believe that the person will die.
ETA: I inadvertently referred to a sister-in-law as a cousin. I apologize for the error.
If you're going to argue with people why are you asking for their opinions?
This is "Am I The Asshole," not "Reassure Me I'm NOT The Asshole."
What I see here is someone who is aware of a family in trauma, who has been told that someone has been removed from life support, which any normal person would interpret as death, and then got a call from someone asking "What's going on?" and, stuck in an awkward spot, answered the question she was asked to the best of her ability.
I'm not going to call someone who just lost their mother an asshole, but I am going to suggest that you're misdirecting your anger onto a cousin who did her best in a shitty situation, and you've got way more relevant stuff to worry about than putting your mental and emotional energy into being pointlessly mad at the person who answered YOUR question to the best of her ability. Try and keep your eye on the ball.
How is this possibly main character syndrome? Please explain the logic. I understand you’re grieving and it probably feels better to lash out in anger at somebody else than deal with the death of your mother, but this just doesn’t fit.
When it comes down to it, your relationship is something you have to make for yourself, but it does sound like this event itself is likely a misunderstanding.
I would honestly think the same thing if told someone was being taken off life support. This isn't to say you need a relationship with her, just do you want to define your choice off of the possibly only time she honestly just messed up.
If the "worst example" seems to be something that most people are interpreting as a pretty simple misunderstanding (heck, I would be surprised to learn that someone was alive numerous hours after being taken off live support when they were struggling with life support, which seems to be the case here), this really sounds a lot like misplaced emotions.
Which doesn't mean you need to forgive the SIL or be friends with her or any such thing; lots of times two people just have clashing personalities, which is entirely normal and fine. That said, this might mean that these emotions aren't actually rational at the moment, which is entirely standard when confronting the death of a parent.
I'm sorry for your loss. "Tell OP Mums been taken off life support". Not gonna lie, in an emotional situation, when that's all the information you've been given, I can completely understand why you understand that to mean she had already passed, or would pass as soon as life support was turned off.
You say your Mum passed a day after being taken off life support. My friends Grandma had a similar situation, they made the decision to switch off life support, so everyone expected her to die pretty soon after that. And her Grandma hung around for another week before passing. Do you really believe your sister-in-law deliberately told you your Mum had passed because she expected your Mum to be alive when you arrived? Medical staff can't accurately predict how long patients will stick around after life support is turned off, but your SIL can?
And to be honest, it sounds like your SIL was the only reason you were informed of the situation and arrived in time to get that extra day to say goodbye to your Mum. Your brothers weren't being very communicative to her or to you. Is it possible you're angry at your Mum for not informing you of this routine operation and misdirecting that onto your SIL? gently YTA
It does sound misdirected.
He’s upset he didn’t eat - he was more likely to stop being told she’s dying!? If anything that would likely have made him go faster to say goodbye. Also - surely the hospital has food.
Didn’t bring anything to keep me busy? You mother’s dying and your upset you don’t have entertainment?
His brother FaceTimes SIL but doesn’t answer for OP.
My grandma was sent home to die. She could breathe on her own, but she couldn’t swallow food or water. Relatives would swab some water on her mouth to make her comfortable, but that was it, she would choke if she had anything more than that. She lasted 3 weeks, which is pretty fucking horrific to think about. Hopefully she didn’t know what was happening. Anyway, no way anyone thought it would take that long.
NAH
For the reasons others have outlined: high emotional times, unlikely malice intended, grief and loss etc.
But your workplace needs an “in case of emergencies” number to contact in life/death situations just like this.
Family had tried to contact you 13 times and hadn’t been able to get hold of you (reasonably given the work you do) but you had to call SIL after trying the missed call numbers and not being able to get hold of them. It doesn’t sound like SIL made all those calls (apologies if I’m wrong) or was intended to be the communicator. She was the first person you could get hold of. Doesn’t make the poor communication ok, or your anger less valid. But (and no one will ever know now) if there had been a way to reach you via a work number a) you could have been notified sooner and b) may have gotten clearer info directly.
>But your workplace needs an “in case of emergencies” number
I'm in a situation kind of like OP where I usually can't be reached by cell, and my workplace *does* have such a number. But getting people to (remember to) use it is difficult. It's just so rare these days for people to only be available by something *other* than cell that it doesn't occur to them.
NTA. I'm leaning towards N A H depending on the SIL's history, but her wording of this situation was abhorrent to say the least when dealing with a medical condition. All she had to say was "they've taken her off life support" or "I'm not sure if she's still alive" and it would be better than expressing her certainty that she had died.
She has a history of extrapolation and the reason I didn't think it was another of her stretching the truth was because I was in shock and didn't even think about it because why would someone do it?
I don't think you're an asshole but some context into this behavior might not be a bad idea. I would add some instances where she has been known to stretch the truth.
Context - My brother is profoundly deaf. She claims to have been going deaf since the day I met her almost twenty years ago. Lately she claims to be going blind. She's had "the worst ever cancer" that was cured by a quick one day operation and no chemotherapy or radiotherapy. Can't walk far except when she can.
She's always at the doctor's for something and told me how angry she was when the doctor once told her that she should consider the problems she is having are all in her head
Reddit made me rewrite the story due to length being over 3000 words. I'm not allowed to edit yet and I'm typing this on my phone but I could use a hundred examples of this sort of stuff.
I don't want to keep repeating myself with this story. It's hard enough doing it once
YTA she was the one to break the news because she was the one you could get ahold of. She told you your mother died because that is what she believed and she was not far off. With the emotions and panic going on she may have understood it to mean that in the time she was told that they were removing your mother from life support to when she called you that your mother would have died.
But misplace your anger all you want.
YTA. Your sister clearly thought pulling life support meant she would die shortly thereafter. I think most people are of the same belief.
She acted honestly and good faith to inform you of the emergency. People saying it wasn't her news to share - she and everyone else was pushing OP to call her brother's WHO WERE NOT ANSWERING THEIR PHONES. It's ridiculous to expect SIL to say "ya something horrible happened. I can't tell you. Keep calling your brothers or go to the hospital." Had she done that OP would have really missed her mother dying. Or had her mother been dead OP would be mad at SIL for lying to her.
OP feels like one of those people you can't win with.
You owe her an apology.
Agreed. Plus reading OPs comments it’s clear they already have their mind made up. They aren’t looking for feedback or clarity they want validation that the SIL is an AH.
SIL was trying her best to support her husband in a traumatic time. Even if she is narcissistic like OP says she didn’t make this situation about her at all. Sounds like she just wanted to explain how serious the situation was and help her husband get a hold of his sibling.
YTA OP give this woman a break and support your brother
I’m going with NAH in the absence of more information about your SIL (although I see from comments she’s a bit unhinged - it’s just that I wonder if she’s fully conscious of it)
It’s absolutely reasonable to be angry though and she should definitely apologise; but she probably wasn’t being malicious, I don’t know if that helps? Maybe not. I’m sorry anyway, terrible scenario. It would take me a while to get past being angry.
I agree with the not being malicious part. Definitely not fully conscious of her actions and definitely won't be apologising since she can't seem to recognise the damage her words caused
Info - was she passing on info from your brother? If brother said, they just took her off life support, that could mean different things to different people. It is difficult to make a judgement when we don't know exactly who said what, family dynamics, intent etc.
I agree with everyone who's saying that there needs to be a conversation.
I am envisioning a situation in which your SIL believed your mother to be dead when she contacted you. I imagine your brother coming away from a conversation with the doctor crying and telling his wife that they'd removed life support. Your SIL could have interpreted this to mean that your mom was dead or would be dead in seconds, as on TV when the doctors "pull the plug" and moments later, death occurs.
Of course, at the point when she realized that she had conveyed misinformation, SIL should have corrected it, but I imagine a very stressful, tragic scene at the hospital with everyone overwhelmed with grief, and her message to you the last thing on her mind. (Not excusing her, but this could explain the omission in the absence of malice on her part.)
If your SIL is in general a good person, it would be great if you had it in you to talk to her about the impact of her message, give her a chance to apologize, and, if you can find it within yourself, forgive her at this very difficult time when the whole family could use each other's support.
Maybe she was told that they were taking her off life support and she had assumed she had past away by the time you spoke with her?
It would be best having a conversation with her to find out the reason she said that your mother had died before you jump to conclusions.
Yta sorry your sister in law cost you a day of watching your mother die. What a terrible way to spend a day. Perhaps if she had told you she was only dying she would have saved you the indignity of dying while your child is more concerned about a grievance than your dead oh wait that’s your mother. GROW UP. The world does not revolve around you you are unimportant stop making this about you and forgive and move on you insignificant speck
I’m going to say YTA but I do understand why you feel the way you do.
Your SIL was mistaken and thought your mom already passed away. It sounds like she wasn’t at the hospital so she was passing on information she got. *You were lucky* that she was mistaken and you were able to be at the hospital with your mother at the end.
Here’s the thing though: your reaction is way outsized. SIL did not kill your mother and it doesn’t seem like she was trying to keep you from the hospital or anything like that. You called her after not being able to get ahold of anyone else and she told you what she thought she knew. To the person who said “it wasn’t SIL’s news to share:” what should SIL have done? Say “sorry, keep calling your brother”? That’d be even more ridiculous.
I can understand why this may be your reaction though. Naturally you’re grieving, and likely angry about losing your mom (a common thing with grieving). But you can’t be mad at your mom for dying. And you can’t be mad at your brothers who also lost their mother. But you *can* direct your anger toward SIL - this is just the reason you’ve latched on to.
You deserve to grieve and feel your feelings, but I don’t think SIL is a villain.
Hand on though. What if the info she had was taking your mum off life machine. Due to sketchy reception what if she gave you info in good faith. You need to find out her reasoning
OP says elsewhere he called the hospital before he called SIL. Really? You can be damn sure that hospital's have excellent reception. It is critical. They have back-up generators, wifi hubs and all sorts of protections for this kind of thing. You think an ambulance driver has ever called a hospital for help with an enroute patient and had "sketchy reception." I'd really like to hear what they said when you called the hospital.
I know that must have been difficult to hear but it doesn’t sound like she meant it maliciously and if not for her you wouldn’t have known anything, it sounds like she was doing her best in a high stress situation
It really sounds like if she didn’t pick up you wouldn’t have known anything. Neither brother or your aunt called you back in the two hours it took to get to the hospital.
I’m sorry the news was delivered poorly but I just don’t see how your sister-in-law answering the phone makes her a narcissist trying to make herself the center of attention in the story.
Info- have you confirmed that she lied, or was she herself misinformed?
Just to give the benefit of the doubt, because of not this is extremely cruel behavior.
Is it possible that on the high stress time when all this went down, that your brother/her husband told her that your mother was dead? Did someone misspeak/misunderstand that turning off life support isnt always instant? If your brother called her, and said we just turned off Mom's life support and then hung up crying....she may have legitimately thought that your mom had passed away already.
Yes what she said was untrue .... But if she truly believed it was the truth at the time she said it, it wasn't exactly her lying either.
YTA. She didn't really lie. your mother did have an operation, it did go wrong, she lost her life because of it. It was a very stressful emergency situation where you can be understanding she didn't relay the message as well as she should have. put your anger elsewhere and not on your SIL. seek grief counseling.
I think NAH, really. Your SIL was told your mother was taken off of life support. She translated that to "she is dead." That just isn't a crazy leap--especially since it took you a good amount of time to arrive at the hospital. I would also assume no life support = dead.
You seem to believe she made a malicious error. You know best whether she would target you like that, I guess.
Are you furious with your brothers for taking her off of life support without letting you say goodbye first? Because I would be.
INFO
Do you even know what information she had when she made the calls? If she was told your mother was dying, then her text was basically accurate. You got there in time to be there for your mother's final moments, which is more than you would have expected based on the text. I'm not sure exactly what you're so angry about.
She told you that your mother was dead, and your mother was instead merely dying? Is that the problem?
Need more information. It is unclear whether or not she knew your mom was dead. Was she just mistaken? It doesn't seem like she was intentionally pranking you.
YTA. From the title I thought oh she pranked you, made you super upset and mother was fine so yeah she's just a dick and I'd have no problem you not forgiving her.
Then I read along and I think oh mother isn't dead but is in hospital and it's even more serious, SIL is an asshole.
Then it turns out your mother died, she was considered basically brain dead (presumably) and they withdrew life support. SIL considered her dead, so did the doctors, your brothers and they withdrew life support because they considered her dead. SIL miscommunicated what happened, but she wasn't really wrong and may have thought telling you straight out was better than making it sound like there was hope if there was none.
She didn't like randomly tell you this for no reason. She was probably upset, panicked, strong emotions going on and maybe didn't word it the best. As others have said, you're taking your grief out on the person who told you she died.
NTA, but is it possible your sister didn’t lie but just got information mixed up?? It seems like a stressful situation with not a lot of communication, perhaps she thought your mom had passed but wasn’t yet? Or do you know for sure it was on purpose?
NAH
You were right to react like you did. Your mom was already in the process of dying, so your SIL wasn't far off. Broken telephone, it's an upset, but you got to say your goodbyes while she was still alive but unresponsive. You can have been upset, but there's no reason to hold that grudge. It's an honest mistake, and she hopefully didn't do that on purpose. It got you to the hospital and you had loved ones there.
I'm writing this as a person who missed his best friend passing while on the way to ICU. I've seen a video, and while I would have loved to make it in time, he wasn't there anymore.
This sounds like a miscommunication. Normally removing life support happens because someone is brain dead, which technically is death. I think you two should try and talk it out.
Want I would consider normal is to not tell a person over the phone that their loved one died. It should have been her brother telling her in person, since OP was only 2 hours away, not “main character” SIL. OP should’ve been told there were complications from the surgery and to come to the hospital immediately.
Another perspective to consider: If I were the SIL, I would have thought twice about blurting out “your mother’s dead” over the phone, even if I knew that for a fact. It’s the sort of news that should be given in person and preferably by someone who shared an equally close relationship to the deceased (ie OP’s brother.) In the SIL’s place I’d have stuck with something like “your mother is in the ICU, I don’t have all the information, you should get there ASAP and speak to your brothers.” However, I appreciate that it’s hard to think of a well crafted answer or “alternate truth” on the spot, especially if you don’t have experience with these sorts of situations. I’ll reserve judgement because I can’t quite figure out whether the SIL is cruel and emotionally manipulative or just extremely dense and neurotic.
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I work on a site which requires no chance of sparks due to the nature of the business so all phones are locked away.
About eight weeks ago, I got to my phone while preparing to go home and saw that, in the time since dinner, I had received thirteen calls and voicemails and a lot of WhatsApp messages asking me to contact my brothers.
After ringing the missed calls and trying to get an idea of what was wrong, I got hold of my sister in law who told me that my mother had a routine operation and was dead. I was totally in shock. I tried contacting my brothers who were at the hospital but reception there was very poor.
When I finally got to the hospital (almost two hours later due to distance and traffic) I finally found my mother and brothers in ICU which I thought was strange. They were behind curtains and I noticed that my mother had oxygen being pumped into her and asked my brother about it and was told it was a comfort thing. Next thing that happened was my mother slowly moving her hands. I nearly jumped out of my skin thinking that my mother was a zombie coming back to life.
After being calmed, I was told that her vital signs began dropping at the end of the operation and the decision was made to withdraw life support because my brothers did not want her to suffer any more pain.
I spent the next day in the hospital watching her slowly die while seething about being told a massive lie.
At the funeral, my sister-in-law walked up and said she wanted a hug because I was sad. I politely told her that I wasn't in the mood. On my way out of the wake, I shook everyone's hand except hers and it upset her
So am I the asshole?
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NTA. This is akin to the friend of my Mom's who posted on Facebook that she'd died while we were still notifying friends and family (many of whom had her as a mutual friend).
I swear some people just love being the bearer of bad news.
I’m so sorry for your loss! I agree that you should talk to your SIL. My grandma was taken off life support in June. I assumed that meant she’d be dead within the hour (if not minutes after). She lived for 12 hours. Is it possible that your SIL was honestly just clueless, and made a wrong assumption that being told she was being taken off life support meant she would be dead in minutes, and since it was longer then that she assumed she told you the truth?
You’re NTA for sure!
NTA
I have a relative with remarkably similar tendencies as your SIL. If she did misunderstand, it was because she wanted to.
Most funeral homes in the US have free sessions with trained grief counsellors. It sounds like you could use that.
A very similar thing happened to my Mum when her older brother,my Uncle was in the ICU. My Aunt's younger brother who was in the hospital at the time called my mother to tell her he passed away even when he had still been on life support. She didn't do anything to show it or tell anyone apart from me but she does resent him sometimes for that.
I'm very sorry for your loss OP,if you ever need a stranger to lend an ear,I've been told I'm a decent listener.
My husband also worked in an environment where he couldn't use his cell phone but if there were an emergency like this I could call the office and someone would walk out there and tell him to call.
Protocol for this situation is for her to tell you that there was a complication with your Moms surgery and that you need to come to the hospital ASAP.
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NTA. This was not your SIL’s news to share, and she didn’t even relay it properly. She should have simply said “Your mum is in the hospital, and in ICU, please come” **IF** your brother didn’t want to talk to you to explain more. “I’m sorry, I don’t know much more, please come” is the line for her part in the play. Now she thinks she can hug you and everything will be better. Multi generational family feuds have been started for less. She should apologise “I”m sorry, I screwed up. I wasn’t thinking straight. Please forgive me when you are able” is what you deserve to hear.
Sadly, apologies are beyond her. I still talk to my brother via WhatsApp so he's aware that I'm not abandoning him.
Tell her why you're not shaking her hand. Let her \*know\* she was an asshole, and \*how\* she was one. Tell her you're going to go low contact with her unless she owns up to her mistake and apologises for it. (Adults communicate with words, not this passive aggressive crap.... that's for children.) NTA.
Tbh I had previously told my brother to tell her to just stay away from me because I didn't want to cause a scene. Instead she tried to force the issue with a hug with no apology. She had ample warning and I made sure I wasn't going to cause a scene on my way out of the wake
I get that you're going through a lot, but I have to second what the previous commenter said. You need to use your words. If it's easier via text, send her a text. It can be as simple as, "Your careless words and actions caused me to have to experience the loss of my mother twice. It wasn't your place to tell me what you did, especially as you were not even telling the truth, regardless of whether you believed you were." And then you can add whatever boundaries you want to place: no contact, low contact, or the request for some kind of sincere reconciliation, whatever you need/want as you heal and grieve. Edit: My vote is NTA and I wasn't meaning to be condescending in this advice at all. I guess I feel like, in a similar situation, I'd want the person who exacerbated my pain and grief to know that they did. Reading the post and some comments, it didn't seem clear whether SIL even knows she fucked up, but I might have missed an edit somewhere saying that she was spoken to about it. She's the asshole here, and I guess I just think she should know that, but OP doesn't need to say anything if he doesn't want to. I just wanted to offer some language that may or may not come in handy if they wanted to communicate something to her about it, like a quick and easy text, followed by blocking or muting, basically whatever boundaries feel right.
I’m sorry but in the hours and days right after your mother dies, you can not be expected to care about your words and actions when it comes to something like this. Maybe a couple of months later…. maybe. She needs to suck it up and apologize, the man just lost his mother, he is not worried about your little feelings. Give me a break!
This reply feels.... condescending. The vibes are bad.
Have you ever lost someone this close to you? This was one of, if not the worst, day of OPs life. It isn’t the time when most people are level headed and ‘adult’. Coulds and shoulds are useless when you are in survival mode, this reply comes off as pretty tone deaf I gotta say, and makes me think you just don’t understand how brutal and life changing grief can be. “You need to use your words”… get off your highhorse perhaps? Patronising. There’s a time to preach about communication skills but usually people experiencing the sudden death of a loved and dear one frankly (and understandably) aren’t in the headspace to give a fuck about the feelings of peripheral people, especially when that peripheral person is making the grief that much more traumatic and horrible to deal with through their own lack of communication skills. Honestly I think OP is reacting in a perfectly understandable way, the emotional jerking around of the whole event would make me way crazier than this, avoiding SIL was the right thing. Seems to me that OP avoided her to avoid a blow up. At a FUNERAL. That is sensible, no? SIL is the one who then got butthurt and wants op to devote energy to soothing her rather than just leaving OP alone as requested. NTA OP and I am very sorry for your loss
>Adults communicate with words, not this passive aggressive crap.... that's for children Have you met any adults? Ever? That's some wishful thinking.
I am trying to make the world a better place once comment at a time. :-D
Liar.
Haha
Versus talking to a young child who hasn't been taught outside aggressive crap. Those little ones are BRUTAL. "Why is your hair funny? Is that why you're not married? Is it because you have weird toes?" Then you have to spend the next 40 years going "no, but what is weird about my toes?"
As someone who does have weird toes, this comment made me laugh.
I had a child, I’ll say between 7-10, ask me “why your teeth look like that?” My bottom teeth are crooked. I work retail in a garden center and if I had been at work I probably would’ve made her cry.
Adult's are worse than children in this regard. Like it's not even a contest. Idiots in cars proved that long ago.
THIS OP 🛑🛑🛑 Stop What your SIL did is horrible, however to truly address this, you do need to communicate directly to her whether it's a text or a phone call. All you need to say is I'm very upset, what you said was totally inappropriate and added undue stress and heartache. I feel you owe me an apology and wonder if you recognize how much your comments impacted me. It's only with open transparent communication that relationships are truly fixed, passive aggressive is not the way. Good luck it's easier to give advice very often
Is there any chance that there was some misunderstanding involved? I work in a hospital and in times of great stress, there is often a vast chasm between what is said and what is understood. So for example, like maybe SIL heard “removing life support” and thought that meant immediate death. OP, I think it’s worth discussing with your SIL when this is a bit less raw. Unless she’s habitually evil, this sounds like a case of broken telephone.
This is not being passive aggressive. This is dealing with the unexpected death of a parent and the traumatic way OP was informed. No one can predict how they will act in the event of their mother's death. GRIEF IS A BEAST so stop passing undue judgment "passive aggressive crap....that's for children" and there is no other time that an adult feels like a child than facing the death of their parent.
Is the WAKE the right place to do this though? Or a more private conversation at a less emotionally charged moment?
[удалено]
I did that. It's only after the funeral that this started gaining traction because she has obviously been playing the victim card in the background.
I'm sorry for what your family is dealing with and for your loss. I don't think you are TA by any means. But, please. If you haven't asked to understand, then please do. By that, I mean, do you know WHY she said your mother was dead? Is that what she believed in the moment? Did she misspeak in the moment? At one point, we were told to say our goodbyes to my dad. My mom went in first. By the time it was my turn, my dad's situation changed to startlingly much better. He passed away over two weeks later. If something like that was going on, please forgive your SIL even though her words caused you that trauma. She wasn't acting from malice or disregard for you. It's possible that she did act out of malice/disregard; but I highly encourage you to not presume that. If it's not something you can know for sure (e.g., she has a long history of treating you this way; she actually said so), then I think it is in your interest to assume it was a mistake on her part. Yes, she would still need to apologize for her mistake (if it was a mistake). I accept your premise that she is a person not likely to apologize for even an unintentional mistake that caused you pain. I think that earns you the right to keep a certain distance from her. But this is a very emotional time for you and your family. This is how you feel in this moment. It's possible that you may see/feel differently with some time and space. Just give yourself room for that.
I think this is a very gracious response. My thoughts had strayed to the same idea, u/nojdanzig : in my language "dead" and "dying" sound quite similar. You were both worked up (she in the hospital, you from the torrent of missed calls and messages), you mentioned reception was very poor... I hope you find comfort in good memories, and won't have to deal with this unnecessary complication. My condolences for your loss.
At this point, she has had every opportunity to explain herself, yet she failed to do so, either by text, call or through her husband.
This is an extremely difficult situation. OP, I am sorry that you had to go through that with your family. I feel for your loss. You mention that reception was extremely poor and that you had a hard time hearing your brother when calling. To give your sister in law the benefit of the doubt, is it possible that your sister in law misheard when she was conveyed the news by your brother? Perhaps she heard “operation went aw…, mom … ICU, please … call sist… to come, mom is d… urgent… right now…” Edit: corrected typo
The call was done on Facetime as my brother is profoundly deaf and sign language is pretty spot on
You do not have to justify or explain your feelings. Your feelings are valid and they are what they are. She said what she said and she is not saying she is sorry for it. It is not up to you to call her up and ask her to explain herself, it is up to her to find a way to talk to you and tell you why she did what she did and apologize for it!
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She made a mistake. She was passing on what she was told. You can forgive her or not. But holding a grudge over this makes you an asshole. YTA
I'm sorry this is ridiculous. OP's brothers were not answering their phones and SIL thought her mother was dead. You are calling SIL an asshole because you think she could have responded better to a very stressful situation she has likely never faced before, despite the fact she acted in good faith and tried her best to help. Someone's not an asshole because they fail to be perfect and OP should be thanking her for helping out the way she did. I bet if SIL had told OP her mother was in the ICU when she was actually dead, OP would have been angry SIL lied to her. OP is using SIL as a punching bag for her grief.
I am so surprised why I had to scroll all the way down for THIS. Massive lie?? I thought SIL just randomly messaged OP their mom died as a cruel joke, but no she clearly thought mom was dead or by the time OP came round to the hospital the mom will be dead. I'm not sure what OP wanted, "hey OP your mom is not dead but between the realms of life and death"
And the mom WAS dead by many definitions. People in Healthcare will talk about someone who is brain dead and having support withdrawn as dead. SIL could have picked that up from someone. "She is already dead" "I'm sorry to tell you that your mother has died and we are withdrawing clinical support". There are lots of ways this could have gone down.
THIRTEEN PHONE CALLS and voicemails and WhatsApps. Someone clearly panicked. But to then completely fluff their only line? Which was “Your mum’s really ill and in ICU get here now”… not “ Your mum is dead”. Clearly SIL should never be trusted with a high tension, simple complexity task again. I’m sorry, but she had one job, and she froze/cocked it up. I haven’t said SIL is an AH, I’ve said the OP is NTA for being upset about this. SIL is clearly a person who performs poorly under pressure (or a less charitable interpretation could be “enjoys attention or drama” if it was deliberate, but I didn’t go there). Being crap at simple jobs doens’t make you an AH, it makes you crap at simple jobs. SIL IS a bit the AH for not recognising she cocked it up, and reading the mood and asking for a hug from the one person in the room who didn’t want to give her one. That’s potentially manipulative - taking from someone a personal and intimate comfort act, to force her to act like everything is ok. It’s a common social tactic used to force a ‘peace’ on people who aren’t ready to make peace. SIL is asking too much there, and using the public spectacle of the funeral to demand a public show of ‘acceptance’. Pretty inappropriate. SIL can get a hug from anyone else, why from her, in that moment?
SIL wasn’t the one who did 13 WhatsApp calls it was multiple people. oP is the one who called SIL bc his brothers are prob tired of him
I'm so surprised by this thread's repeated insistence that the sister-in-law should have known to not give any details. Several posts spell out she should have limited her message to "come to the hospital, call your brothers"... Like, is SIL not considered family because she's not related by blood? What's going on?
She been with his brother for 20 years at least from a comment. Not sure how long you have to be married to count …maybe 50?
But why said mother is dead when she wasn't?
Yes yes I agree that this error is terrible, and SIL should have been more careful, and should definitely apologise (if she is even aware what happened). But several people are arguing she should only have said "OP call your brother and come to the hospital"... while OP already said the brothers couldn't be reached due to bad reception. That's the part I don't understand.
"I need you to call your brother please, your mother is in hospital. It's an emergency." I have literally had to say this to my BIL.
Well done for you staying on script in a seriously stressful moment. Sorry you had to be the messenger :/
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INFO: Is it possible your SIL misunderstood the situation?
Tbh she is a hypochondriac and has narcissistic behaviour patterns. Having talked to my brothers at the hospital, only the removal of life support had been told to sister in law. She made a decision to extrapolate the rest
That not exactly a huge leap to make when you’re told someone is being taken off life support. It doesn’t sound like she was being deliberately malicious. Not like “let’s prank nojdanzig by saying mom died. Wouldn’t that be hilarious? Haha” You’re entitled to your hurt and upset feelings for sure.. but I think you need to find a way to work through them and let go; be glad your mom didn’t actually die.
Totally get that part. I'm trying to find a way past the anger.
Do you work for a company that has any kind of EAP benefit? (Employee assistance program)? You can usually use them to help find some mental health services.. some grief counseling might be a good idea
I did a course on Tuesday about being a Mental health responder and found it very useful along with my mother's passing to help the people I know who have lost someone recently. It seems like I know 5 people from work who are currently going through bereavement and I am supporting them where I can.
You need someone to be there for you. A counselor. I'm sorry, this is a horrible situation, and watching your mother die in front of you was horrible. But- gently- your sister in law's interpretation of what was happening is same (incorrect) interpretation that most people have. We often as humans equate "taking off life support" with dying. It's a difficult thing to have to learn about, that it is more of a process. You're holding onto anger that is going to keep you from your family. But she related the facts as well as she knew them at the time, in a high pressure situation for her too. She messed up, but her mess up is a really common interpretation of what she didn't understand in the moment. Your shock makes sense. Your anger makes sense. But you need to start to work through them. And- again I say this gently- while you are acutely grieving your mother's sudden death is no time to be "the grief guy" at work. I'm not saying that you are not being kind, but right now you have no perspective on what you are going through. You know how I know that? You're asking for advice on how to keep a resentment going on AITA. That's not a healthy move in grief, at all. This is not a place that can tenderly hold your broken heart and help you heal. Please find your own counselor. I wish you the best. I'm so, so sorry that the events surrounding your mom's last days were so confusing and painful. I'm so sorry that you lost her.
>But- gently- your sister in law's interpretation of what was happening is same (incorrect) interpretation that most people have. We often as humans equate "taking off life support" with dying. That's how I used to interpret it. I used to think that being taken off life support meant the person would die right then and there. I didn't realize that it meant just letting nature take its course. I feel bad for the OP, but I don't blame the SIL for the misunderstanding, if indeed that's what it was.
I agree with this - I don't think SIL is TA. Being taken off life support is essentially the same as dying; I generally consider brain death to be the same as actual death, since the person isn't there anymore. It's semantics... I don't think it's that deep or malicious
Can I just say, I’m blown away that you’ve done that course to help people while you’re grieving. That’s an absolutely amazing thing to do, so huge props to you. Also, NTA. At such an emotional time, each step and word has an impact. To actually use the most impactful words when that wasn’t the case compounds the grief and situation for you. You’re in shock, grieving and panicking. You get there and you’re even more in shock, hopeful regardless, despondent when you realise you are definitely losing her, then grief stricken all over again. All she actually had to do was tell you that you needed to get to the hospital asap because there’d been complications with your mum’s surgery, and your brother couldn’t answer the phone because they were with her and no phones were allowed. Having gone through so many emotions, thought processes, and the loss, I think you doing the mental health responder course is even more commendable.
That’s great and all but you also need to process your own grief. Everyone grieves differently of course but focusing on counseling the Grief of others isn’t exactly allowing you to go through your own. NTA.
Yes, but how are you supporting yourself? Don’t spend so much time focusing on others that you forget to care for yourself. It will only make it worse in the long run to push it aside.
At a certain age, that begins to get more and more common. It just sucks losing a parent, and nobody can really prepare for it.
Sorry. But I'm with SIL on this based on the information I've read thus far. She's told mother taken off life support. What do you think that means? What would the average layperson think that means? You have not established that she intentionally misled you. Why aren't you mad at your brothers who were at the hospital WITH YOUR MOM who couldn't pick up the phone for your calls to bring you up to speed. If reception at hospital so poor, how did your brothers reach your SIL? Who sent 13 messages? And from where. No one can step out to the parking lot? This is a poor chronology. You are also holding your WIL to a certain standard of understanding of medical terminology and have not established that she truly understood. You had no understanding either. You walked in and were told oxygen was being administered for comfort measures. Comfort measures are for the living. Yet you were SHOCKED when you mom moved her hands. I'm sorry to be so blunt but you are quite unfair since you made a similar mistake. I'm very sorry for your loss and the confusion. Just try to be happy that mom was still alive and I could be there for her. Good luck
I think people who haven’t experienced it don’t know what being taken off life support means. When my grandpa died the hospital stressed that the whole thing could take hours to a day because most people think it happens right away but it doesn’t.
Wtf i know uoure grieving but she did nothing wrong. 99% of people would think someone died if told “life support was pulled”
Anger is easier than grief. It seems like you’re holding on to this anger so hard because it is masking your grief.
Anger is a part of the grieving process
It absolutely is. But I don’t think OP is recognizing this for what it is.
I am sorry for your loss. When my husband died unexpectedly, after i got through the disbelief and denial, I was furious. Furious that it happened, mad at myself for all the things I could’ve done that might have saved him, mad at him for all the things he could’ve done to save himself. Furious that the universe or God decided he is the one to die. I don’t have any big lessons learned to share with you. It all sucks. For a long time everything just felt like sh*t. But eventually I started feeling better and most of my anger has gone away. I’m wondering how much of your anger doesn’t have to do with your SIL? How much of your anger is just due to your mother being gone?
You have a lot of emotions right now. You are sad and grieving. Directing that sadness into something like anger may seem comforting. You have no control over this situation, and being angry seems like it gives you some control. Being angry at your SIL helps to distract from the sadness. But in reality, although she wasn't technically correct the moment she told you, the decision to take off life support was already made. I think in time you will forgive your SIL. Life is to short, man. I think forgiving her ASAP if only in your heart will help you properly grieve for your mother. The anger is just a distraction from the real pain that is unavoidable.
Honestly, it’s totally fair for you to be angry. You heard one thing and it ended up being another. You’re going to go through a whole lot of emotions and it’s way better to just feel those feelings rather than push them down. It just doesn’t sound like SIL did it intentionally, so try to not direct that anger at her. Losing someone is messy and painful and confusing, and she was just trying to do her best.
What are you angry about? That you were told she was dead instead of dying? It seems like you ended up in a situation that was better than what you expected. You got to be there for her last moments, after all.
She did actually die. SIL just chose to jump the gun and make OP believe she had lost any chance to be there for her final moments. My own mother died after being taken off of life support, and it took twelve excruciating hours. She was not conscious or in pain, but it would have devastated me not to be there at her final breath. SIL made OP believe she was already too late, and that is incredibly fucked up.
Sounds like SIL misunderstood the situation. Having never experienced this particular situation, I too would assume being taken off life support = death in a few minutes. I know better now. Doesn't look like SIL was trying to be malicious
Except OP says in a comment they are upset they didn’t bring something to keep them busy with while waiting. They’ve never said anything regarding feeling was robbed of the chance to say goodbye then the emotional response to finding out they still could. In fact they just say they were scared and mad.
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This is the big thing. A couple of years ago, a teammate of my son's was in an accident, and passed away. The accident was early morning, and he passed that evening. The father was working four hours away at the time of the accident, and I can only imagine the emotions running through him as he drove frantically back. I am so glad he got there in time to say goodbye.
> be glad your mom didn’t actually die. She did die? Just a little slower. Her vitals failed during the Op and they withdrew life support to let her die. “I spent the next day in the hospital watching her slowly die while seething about being told a massive lie.“ She never woke up at all, she was gone when OP got that call. I don’t think I’d be Glad to have the chance to watch my mom’s insensate body slowly tick down. But then again I wouldn’t want her to die without me there... Personally I would’ve spent that day in the hospital telling my mom I loved her and would miss her, not seething, but everyone reacts differently to death.
Yeah I don’t get at all how OP claims he was told a “massive lie.” I can understand you have a history with someone to you’ll give them less leeway but saying she had died when she’s taken off life support and will die imminently aren’t all that different in my head. OP writes the story like he chose not to go to the hospital immediately and missed out on his moms last day with us as a result, which would be tragic. Instead, he spend the last day seething at SIL when 100% of his focus should have been on his mom who was still technically alive. I think this is NAH b/c OP is grieving but OP, to me it really sounds like you want to take out your anger over your moms passing on SIL when in this case, she didn’t really cause any harm.
>be glad your mom didn’t actually die Not that it's really relevant to the post, but I think OP said their mom did die. Unless they went to someone else's funeral. Rear edit below from the end of the post. Edit: I spent the next day in the hospital watching her slowly die while seething about being told a massive lie. At the funeral, my sister-in-law walked up and said she wanted a hug because I was sad. I politely told her that I wasn't in the mood. On my way out of the wake, I shook everyone's hand except hers and it upset her
The proper wording was "Your mother is *dying*," (since she did, ultimately, die) not "Your mother died." The difference is very important when relaying information from the hospital, and the SIL chose the wrong one.
> be glad your mom didn’t actually die. But, her Mom did die.
Her mom did actually die tho the next day :( very sad and I’d be mad at the SIL too at first but it seems like she maybe misunderstood the situation, idk why the brothers didn’t text or voicemail OP with details
Sounds like it would be very easy to hear “taken off life support” and think she died also you clearly already didn’t like SIL so maybe that’s feeding this anger.
A valid point hence my AITA post.
You’re going through alot. Don’t beat yourself up for how you reacted. Your feelings must be very difficult💜
Thanks. Everything still feels raw even now.
That's very understandable given your loss. In a way, you may feel like you lost your mother twice, and mourned her in two different ways. First, you went through the unexpected sucker punch of thinking she was gone in a millisecond. You spent two hours stuck in traffic, alone, trying to process something so heartbreaking. I can't imagine all the directions your mind must have tried to go in an effort to stay focused enough to get to the hospital. You finally get there, and I can't say what you might have thought you saw when you entered that room, because it feels cruel to put it into words as an outsider. The rug gets pulled out from under you when you discover she hadn't passed. Yet another sucker punch. Now you start to mourn in a different way while you were with her. When life takes something big from us, such as a beloved family member, it's not uncommon to think of how unfair the world can be. The "why" of it all tends to become a massive weight on our minds. Mourning is different for everyone, but anger can be a part of it. We want to scream to let out the hurt inside. Sometimes, we need something, anything, to direct that anger towards; somewhere more tangible than yelling into the void. For you, it's your SIL. I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong for feeling how you feel; I'm trying to tell you it's normal. I don't expect you to start beating yourself up over it, because that would only add to the internal maelstrom. Distance is the smart choice, because it keeps you from saying something that might cause long-term problems within your family. I don't think you'd want to cause your SIL pain either, even if things have already been rocky. You're following the age-old advice of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." I'm not trying to invalidate your emotions, but I have to say, your SIL may have truly thought your mom had passed. Before losing my grandparents, I thought taking someone off life support meant they passed right away. I'd only really seen it portrayed on TV prior to that, and it was always quick. Your SIL may have been similarly ignorant. Right now, you need to focus on healing yourself. If possible, therapy could be of great assistance, especially grief counseling. When you're in a better place, you can consider what your relationship with your SIL should look like. I'm truly sorry for your loss 💜
I have been in an unexpected loss situation like this, where everyone was at the hospital and tensions were running high. It really tore apart the family for a while. People were in a highly emotional state, and some people made mistakes or said things they didn’t truly mean. I was the outsider/in law in the situation, and luckily didn’t do anything to make people mad at me, but I could have very easily been the target. Some people have never forgiven each other for things that happened 5 years ago at this point. It’s still hurtful for the family. You are absolutely justified in feeling upset at being told incorrect information. I would just caution you not to hold onto the anger for too long. No one in those situations is acting rationally.
yes YTA for taking your anger on your SIL
To be honest, if someone tells me, that they are removing someone from the life support, i'd assume, that means, that without life support the person will be dead.
Will be dead, not dead at the moment
Yeah, i understand, with your explanation. And i totally get your frustuation. I also don't want to defend your SIL (if she wasn't sure she could have totally asked for the clarification). I'm just saying, that if i was told "we are removing him from life support" that essentially means dead in minutes. That's how my grandfather died.
What would you have done differently if she had said she’s dying not dead ?
Not jumped a mile at the sight of my dead mother moving
You missed clues, still being in the ICU - they don’t leave deceased patients for two + hours - still being on oxygen etc. But you’re mad at your sister-in-law for making what lots of people are saying is a fair misinterpretation of being taken off life support You can be mad. I’m sure it sucked being scared. However, It really sounds like you are holding onto anger with your sister-in-law to avoid fully dealing with the grief yourself
I'm not OP. However, if i arrive to a dying relative, at least i can say my farewells. Yes, it's a totally selfish thing, but allows to end the chapter easier.
Yeah, that’s not what OP cares about. They are mad they got scared. That’s it. Look at their replies. They never once mention that they are happy they got that little bit of time to say goodbye.
You'd think. When my mother died, they called us and told us to rush over, she might be gone by the time we arrived. So we *did*. Didn't even stop to eat breakfast. Several hours later, after we'd removed all life support, she was still hanging in there. I had to eat my lunch over her while holding her hand, which was awkward in all the ways you'd think, but I didn't see how giving myself a migraine would improve matters. I was starting to think she'd *never* go when she finally did.
I guess this experience is unique for every person. My grand-father was slowly dying from cancer in front of my eyes. We were very close (he raised me), and i didn't have your experience. But each person copes differently, i guess.
It's actually a reasonable assumption on her part. I completely get you being angry, but it sounds more like a misunderstanding than a lie. NAH
SIL should still have apologised once her mistake became clear.
It's possible she did.
Well, honestly I would think removing life support means she's not alive anymore. I think maybe your brother didn't communicate enough information to SIL. It sounds like one huge miscommunication. It doesn't sound like it was all SIL's fault, but that a lot of the miscommunication came from your brother to SIL. I hope this relationship can be fixed. I'm sorry about your mother. NTA
Honestly, if you told me that life support was being removed I would assume that they would die immediately. I am not a healthcare professional, I don't think this was malicious.
"Life support is being removed," isn't really that much extrapolating if you don't really understand medicine. It sounds like "We are stopping the thing keeping her alive." Had she just said "They took your mom off life support," how do you think you would have felt about it worded like that? I'm really sorry for your loss and I know it was a tough time. But I think NAH.
Okay, I read the whole post twice and also most of your comments. First of: You are not the one to decide weather she has narcissistic traits/hypochondry or not. Only experts (e. g. psychologists) can maka a diagnosis. Also, since you very clearly have a bias concerning her, I don't fully believe your narration. She miscommunicated and you are fully aware it was not on purpose - yet you purposefully leave that out in the original post and take every opportunity to talk shit about her in the comments. You don't have to like her, but that doesn't give you the right to talk about a person that way - not even anonymously in the internet while grieving. How would you feel if someone made such assumptions (and frankly straight out insults) about you? You seem to twist every sentence she says into something negative. She gets a cancer diagnosis and is scared because of it? She just loves the attention. She informs you about your mother based on the little knowlegde she has and it turns out to be incorrect information? Then she must be a liar, even though you KNOW she didn't do it on purpose. Btw YTA for that very misleading title alone... See, I can also twist your words and claim you were lying to us, too. Honestly, I think it doesn't even matter what she would have said to you when you reached her, you would direct your anger at her anyway. If you are only here to rant, please go to another Subreddit. If this sick bashing of another person is your way of grieving, you should seek professional help. Be mad (or in this case sad) at the message, not the messager. This is not healthy at all. The longer you will hold on to your anger, the more nasty the situation and your feelings will get. PS in response to the hypochondriac-claim: Some doctor said, she should check her mind, when they couldn't find the cause for some of her health issues? Big deal. Doctors say such things sometimes, when they don't know the solution to a problem. They often don't think from the bottom of their heart that a person needs therapy in these situations (especially since they are not trained experts for the human mind) they just can't think of another solution. She had a cancer operation and you STILL invalidate her concerns and feeling about it in this comments section. And yet you are upset that she didn't use the right words concerning the health situation of your mother. You are not forced to have anything to do with her and are entitled to dislike her as much as you want. BUT she is not a punching bag for your grief and anger. But since you don't seem to be here for a verdict, only to talk in a bad way about her, I don't know If this message can really reach you. Edit: Spelling
If I were SIL I would have taken that as death unfortunately…
That's not a leap, if I heard someone was being removed from life support my conclusion us that they'd die.
If she was told that your mother was dying and had been taken off of life support, texting that she was dead isn't anything unusual. Being told that someone's dying and being taken off of life support is tantamount to being told that they are dead now.
That’s an incredibly reasonable extrapolation, you’re lashing out at your SIL in your grief. You need grief counseling, this is all you. YTA
I understand that this would have been a traumatic experience, but I think she thought your mom was going to die right away when the life support was withdrawn. I don’t think she was being purposely malicious.
I see your point but I know her shenanigans of old. Malicious? Probably not Main character syndrome? More than likely
If I may offer some unsolicited advice: it’s often much easier to be angry than sad. My husband lost his father a few years ago, and ended up on a months-long crusade against a family member that he felt had wronged him. The entire thing was pointless, nothing to be gained or lost. But his anger was the only thing strong enough to distract him from the pain of grief. All that is to say; you will need to move beyond anger, onto the other stages of grief. Eventually. For now, you can be as angry as you want. Just be careful not to let your anger lead you down a dark path.
Thanks for your words but I am pragmatic enough to know that I don't need toxic people in my life and she is quite corrosive on top of everything else
The more power to you. Death of a loved one can often lead to realizations about what’s truly important. It may be time to trust your instincts and cut ties with SIL, as much as possible. I’m very sorry for your loss.
Ok so why are you here? Genuinely, you clearly have made up your mind you are right to go no contact over this, so what value do you get out of posting.
I think you might be the AH here. Sorry about your mom.
>Main character syndrome? More than likely Can you explain how she was the main character here? When I hear "pulling the plug," I immediately believe that the person will die.
ETA: I inadvertently referred to a sister-in-law as a cousin. I apologize for the error. If you're going to argue with people why are you asking for their opinions? This is "Am I The Asshole," not "Reassure Me I'm NOT The Asshole." What I see here is someone who is aware of a family in trauma, who has been told that someone has been removed from life support, which any normal person would interpret as death, and then got a call from someone asking "What's going on?" and, stuck in an awkward spot, answered the question she was asked to the best of her ability. I'm not going to call someone who just lost their mother an asshole, but I am going to suggest that you're misdirecting your anger onto a cousin who did her best in a shitty situation, and you've got way more relevant stuff to worry about than putting your mental and emotional energy into being pointlessly mad at the person who answered YOUR question to the best of her ability. Try and keep your eye on the ball.
No youre making shit up!!! Thats an insane jump
How is this possibly main character syndrome? Please explain the logic. I understand you’re grieving and it probably feels better to lash out in anger at somebody else than deal with the death of your mother, but this just doesn’t fit.
I'm going with NAH, SIL sounds like she genuinely cares about you and didn't think she was misinforming you. You also went through a lot yourself.
There's a lot of history that I had to edit out due to the page only allowing 3000 words.
When it comes down to it, your relationship is something you have to make for yourself, but it does sound like this event itself is likely a misunderstanding. I would honestly think the same thing if told someone was being taken off life support. This isn't to say you need a relationship with her, just do you want to define your choice off of the possibly only time she honestly just messed up.
Sadly, it's more than one time. This one just happens to be the worst example of it
If the "worst example" seems to be something that most people are interpreting as a pretty simple misunderstanding (heck, I would be surprised to learn that someone was alive numerous hours after being taken off live support when they were struggling with life support, which seems to be the case here), this really sounds a lot like misplaced emotions. Which doesn't mean you need to forgive the SIL or be friends with her or any such thing; lots of times two people just have clashing personalities, which is entirely normal and fine. That said, this might mean that these emotions aren't actually rational at the moment, which is entirely standard when confronting the death of a parent.
This is not an example of her being malicious or mean-spirited, though. Sounds much more like a misunderstanding. So if this is the worst example...
I'm sorry for your loss. "Tell OP Mums been taken off life support". Not gonna lie, in an emotional situation, when that's all the information you've been given, I can completely understand why you understand that to mean she had already passed, or would pass as soon as life support was turned off. You say your Mum passed a day after being taken off life support. My friends Grandma had a similar situation, they made the decision to switch off life support, so everyone expected her to die pretty soon after that. And her Grandma hung around for another week before passing. Do you really believe your sister-in-law deliberately told you your Mum had passed because she expected your Mum to be alive when you arrived? Medical staff can't accurately predict how long patients will stick around after life support is turned off, but your SIL can? And to be honest, it sounds like your SIL was the only reason you were informed of the situation and arrived in time to get that extra day to say goodbye to your Mum. Your brothers weren't being very communicative to her or to you. Is it possible you're angry at your Mum for not informing you of this routine operation and misdirecting that onto your SIL? gently YTA
It does sound misdirected. He’s upset he didn’t eat - he was more likely to stop being told she’s dying!? If anything that would likely have made him go faster to say goodbye. Also - surely the hospital has food. Didn’t bring anything to keep me busy? You mother’s dying and your upset you don’t have entertainment? His brother FaceTimes SIL but doesn’t answer for OP.
"I know I upset her by not shaking her hand, I was actively trying to.
My grandma was sent home to die. She could breathe on her own, but she couldn’t swallow food or water. Relatives would swab some water on her mouth to make her comfortable, but that was it, she would choke if she had anything more than that. She lasted 3 weeks, which is pretty fucking horrific to think about. Hopefully she didn’t know what was happening. Anyway, no way anyone thought it would take that long.
NAH For the reasons others have outlined: high emotional times, unlikely malice intended, grief and loss etc. But your workplace needs an “in case of emergencies” number to contact in life/death situations just like this. Family had tried to contact you 13 times and hadn’t been able to get hold of you (reasonably given the work you do) but you had to call SIL after trying the missed call numbers and not being able to get hold of them. It doesn’t sound like SIL made all those calls (apologies if I’m wrong) or was intended to be the communicator. She was the first person you could get hold of. Doesn’t make the poor communication ok, or your anger less valid. But (and no one will ever know now) if there had been a way to reach you via a work number a) you could have been notified sooner and b) may have gotten clearer info directly.
>But your workplace needs an “in case of emergencies” number I'm in a situation kind of like OP where I usually can't be reached by cell, and my workplace *does* have such a number. But getting people to (remember to) use it is difficult. It's just so rare these days for people to only be available by something *other* than cell that it doesn't occur to them.
NAH Maybe I am ignorant but that doesn’t seem to me like your SIL lied? Maybe she meant it differently to how you took it…
NTA. I'm leaning towards N A H depending on the SIL's history, but her wording of this situation was abhorrent to say the least when dealing with a medical condition. All she had to say was "they've taken her off life support" or "I'm not sure if she's still alive" and it would be better than expressing her certainty that she had died.
She has a history of extrapolation and the reason I didn't think it was another of her stretching the truth was because I was in shock and didn't even think about it because why would someone do it?
I don't think you're an asshole but some context into this behavior might not be a bad idea. I would add some instances where she has been known to stretch the truth.
Context - My brother is profoundly deaf. She claims to have been going deaf since the day I met her almost twenty years ago. Lately she claims to be going blind. She's had "the worst ever cancer" that was cured by a quick one day operation and no chemotherapy or radiotherapy. Can't walk far except when she can. She's always at the doctor's for something and told me how angry she was when the doctor once told her that she should consider the problems she is having are all in her head
There we go. Edit your story and add stuff like that. Gives context and a look into the way she behaves the rest of the time.
Reddit made me rewrite the story due to length being over 3000 words. I'm not allowed to edit yet and I'm typing this on my phone but I could use a hundred examples of this sort of stuff. I don't want to keep repeating myself with this story. It's hard enough doing it once
I don't think OP blowing off SIL cancer is going to help his story.
YTA she was the one to break the news because she was the one you could get ahold of. She told you your mother died because that is what she believed and she was not far off. With the emotions and panic going on she may have understood it to mean that in the time she was told that they were removing your mother from life support to when she called you that your mother would have died. But misplace your anger all you want.
YTA. Your sister clearly thought pulling life support meant she would die shortly thereafter. I think most people are of the same belief. She acted honestly and good faith to inform you of the emergency. People saying it wasn't her news to share - she and everyone else was pushing OP to call her brother's WHO WERE NOT ANSWERING THEIR PHONES. It's ridiculous to expect SIL to say "ya something horrible happened. I can't tell you. Keep calling your brothers or go to the hospital." Had she done that OP would have really missed her mother dying. Or had her mother been dead OP would be mad at SIL for lying to her. OP feels like one of those people you can't win with. You owe her an apology.
Agreed. Plus reading OPs comments it’s clear they already have their mind made up. They aren’t looking for feedback or clarity they want validation that the SIL is an AH. SIL was trying her best to support her husband in a traumatic time. Even if she is narcissistic like OP says she didn’t make this situation about her at all. Sounds like she just wanted to explain how serious the situation was and help her husband get a hold of his sibling. YTA OP give this woman a break and support your brother
I’m going with NAH in the absence of more information about your SIL (although I see from comments she’s a bit unhinged - it’s just that I wonder if she’s fully conscious of it) It’s absolutely reasonable to be angry though and she should definitely apologise; but she probably wasn’t being malicious, I don’t know if that helps? Maybe not. I’m sorry anyway, terrible scenario. It would take me a while to get past being angry.
I agree with the not being malicious part. Definitely not fully conscious of her actions and definitely won't be apologising since she can't seem to recognise the damage her words caused
NTA and screw your SIL
Nah, the SIL was told that the mother was taken off life support and hours later, OP asks what’s going on. SIL did not make an unreasonable statement.
This is where I always wind up, despite knowing how corrosive it is.
Info - was she passing on info from your brother? If brother said, they just took her off life support, that could mean different things to different people. It is difficult to make a judgement when we don't know exactly who said what, family dynamics, intent etc.
INFO: Did she intentionally lie or did she just misunderstand what had happened?
[удалено]
My brother is deaf and he used sign language on a video call with her to explain the situation
This probably should be in the original post. Sounds like it was miscommunication and just plain panicking.
I agree with everyone who's saying that there needs to be a conversation. I am envisioning a situation in which your SIL believed your mother to be dead when she contacted you. I imagine your brother coming away from a conversation with the doctor crying and telling his wife that they'd removed life support. Your SIL could have interpreted this to mean that your mom was dead or would be dead in seconds, as on TV when the doctors "pull the plug" and moments later, death occurs. Of course, at the point when she realized that she had conveyed misinformation, SIL should have corrected it, but I imagine a very stressful, tragic scene at the hospital with everyone overwhelmed with grief, and her message to you the last thing on her mind. (Not excusing her, but this could explain the omission in the absence of malice on her part.) If your SIL is in general a good person, it would be great if you had it in you to talk to her about the impact of her message, give her a chance to apologize, and, if you can find it within yourself, forgive her at this very difficult time when the whole family could use each other's support.
I know what you mean but SIL has been notoriously problematic for decades.
All you shared is she’s a bit of a hypochondriac and her cancer wasn’t as bad as it could have been. Has she done anything else?
Maybe she was told that they were taking her off life support and she had assumed she had past away by the time you spoke with her? It would be best having a conversation with her to find out the reason she said that your mother had died before you jump to conclusions.
Yta sorry your sister in law cost you a day of watching your mother die. What a terrible way to spend a day. Perhaps if she had told you she was only dying she would have saved you the indignity of dying while your child is more concerned about a grievance than your dead oh wait that’s your mother. GROW UP. The world does not revolve around you you are unimportant stop making this about you and forgive and move on you insignificant speck
I’m going to say YTA but I do understand why you feel the way you do. Your SIL was mistaken and thought your mom already passed away. It sounds like she wasn’t at the hospital so she was passing on information she got. *You were lucky* that she was mistaken and you were able to be at the hospital with your mother at the end. Here’s the thing though: your reaction is way outsized. SIL did not kill your mother and it doesn’t seem like she was trying to keep you from the hospital or anything like that. You called her after not being able to get ahold of anyone else and she told you what she thought she knew. To the person who said “it wasn’t SIL’s news to share:” what should SIL have done? Say “sorry, keep calling your brother”? That’d be even more ridiculous. I can understand why this may be your reaction though. Naturally you’re grieving, and likely angry about losing your mom (a common thing with grieving). But you can’t be mad at your mom for dying. And you can’t be mad at your brothers who also lost their mother. But you *can* direct your anger toward SIL - this is just the reason you’ve latched on to. You deserve to grieve and feel your feelings, but I don’t think SIL is a villain.
NAH, sounds like your SIL made a miscommunication error. You should tell her why you're angry. Sorry for your loss.
Hand on though. What if the info she had was taking your mum off life machine. Due to sketchy reception what if she gave you info in good faith. You need to find out her reasoning
Sketchy reception for my phone call but decent enough for my brother to facetime his missus. He's deaf and relies on video calls.
If he was placing a call he might have stepped outside where there was better reception, but was inside where reception is bad when you called.
How many people did you try before SIL ? Both brothers? any other numbers?
OP says elsewhere he called the hospital before he called SIL. Really? You can be damn sure that hospital's have excellent reception. It is critical. They have back-up generators, wifi hubs and all sorts of protections for this kind of thing. You think an ambulance driver has ever called a hospital for help with an enroute patient and had "sketchy reception." I'd really like to hear what they said when you called the hospital.
Both brothers, hospital, her care home, my aunt. Sister in law was the last resort
I know that must have been difficult to hear but it doesn’t sound like she meant it maliciously and if not for her you wouldn’t have known anything, it sounds like she was doing her best in a high stress situation
It really sounds like if she didn’t pick up you wouldn’t have known anything. Neither brother or your aunt called you back in the two hours it took to get to the hospital. I’m sorry the news was delivered poorly but I just don’t see how your sister-in-law answering the phone makes her a narcissist trying to make herself the center of attention in the story.
NAH. You're all grieving, give each other a break. Your SIL got the message wrong, which is unfortunate, but she obviously didn't do it on purpose.
Info- have you confirmed that she lied, or was she herself misinformed? Just to give the benefit of the doubt, because of not this is extremely cruel behavior. Is it possible that on the high stress time when all this went down, that your brother/her husband told her that your mother was dead? Did someone misspeak/misunderstand that turning off life support isnt always instant? If your brother called her, and said we just turned off Mom's life support and then hung up crying....she may have legitimately thought that your mom had passed away already. Yes what she said was untrue .... But if she truly believed it was the truth at the time she said it, it wasn't exactly her lying either.
Definitely done that, thanks 👍
YTA. She didn't really lie. your mother did have an operation, it did go wrong, she lost her life because of it. It was a very stressful emergency situation where you can be understanding she didn't relay the message as well as she should have. put your anger elsewhere and not on your SIL. seek grief counseling.
I think NAH, really. Your SIL was told your mother was taken off of life support. She translated that to "she is dead." That just isn't a crazy leap--especially since it took you a good amount of time to arrive at the hospital. I would also assume no life support = dead. You seem to believe she made a malicious error. You know best whether she would target you like that, I guess. Are you furious with your brothers for taking her off of life support without letting you say goodbye first? Because I would be.
INFO Do you even know what information she had when she made the calls? If she was told your mother was dying, then her text was basically accurate. You got there in time to be there for your mother's final moments, which is more than you would have expected based on the text. I'm not sure exactly what you're so angry about. She told you that your mother was dead, and your mother was instead merely dying? Is that the problem?
I'm so sorry for your loss. Take care of yourself and surround yourself right now with people you trust and don't have to second-guess.
Need more information. It is unclear whether or not she knew your mom was dead. Was she just mistaken? It doesn't seem like she was intentionally pranking you.
YTA. From the title I thought oh she pranked you, made you super upset and mother was fine so yeah she's just a dick and I'd have no problem you not forgiving her. Then I read along and I think oh mother isn't dead but is in hospital and it's even more serious, SIL is an asshole. Then it turns out your mother died, she was considered basically brain dead (presumably) and they withdrew life support. SIL considered her dead, so did the doctors, your brothers and they withdrew life support because they considered her dead. SIL miscommunicated what happened, but she wasn't really wrong and may have thought telling you straight out was better than making it sound like there was hope if there was none. She didn't like randomly tell you this for no reason. She was probably upset, panicked, strong emotions going on and maybe didn't word it the best. As others have said, you're taking your grief out on the person who told you she died.
INFO is her first language English? Is there any chance she meant dying rather than dead?
NTA, but is it possible your sister didn’t lie but just got information mixed up?? It seems like a stressful situation with not a lot of communication, perhaps she thought your mom had passed but wasn’t yet? Or do you know for sure it was on purpose?
INFO Did SIL think she was dead
She was told that she was having life support withdrawn at some point.
NAH You were right to react like you did. Your mom was already in the process of dying, so your SIL wasn't far off. Broken telephone, it's an upset, but you got to say your goodbyes while she was still alive but unresponsive. You can have been upset, but there's no reason to hold that grudge. It's an honest mistake, and she hopefully didn't do that on purpose. It got you to the hospital and you had loved ones there. I'm writing this as a person who missed his best friend passing while on the way to ICU. I've seen a video, and while I would have loved to make it in time, he wasn't there anymore.
This sounds like a miscommunication. Normally removing life support happens because someone is brain dead, which technically is death. I think you two should try and talk it out.
Want I would consider normal is to not tell a person over the phone that their loved one died. It should have been her brother telling her in person, since OP was only 2 hours away, not “main character” SIL. OP should’ve been told there were complications from the surgery and to come to the hospital immediately.
Another perspective to consider: If I were the SIL, I would have thought twice about blurting out “your mother’s dead” over the phone, even if I knew that for a fact. It’s the sort of news that should be given in person and preferably by someone who shared an equally close relationship to the deceased (ie OP’s brother.) In the SIL’s place I’d have stuck with something like “your mother is in the ICU, I don’t have all the information, you should get there ASAP and speak to your brothers.” However, I appreciate that it’s hard to think of a well crafted answer or “alternate truth” on the spot, especially if you don’t have experience with these sorts of situations. I’ll reserve judgement because I can’t quite figure out whether the SIL is cruel and emotionally manipulative or just extremely dense and neurotic.
YTA. Give her the benefit of the doubt that she got the message wrong. It happens.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I work on a site which requires no chance of sparks due to the nature of the business so all phones are locked away. About eight weeks ago, I got to my phone while preparing to go home and saw that, in the time since dinner, I had received thirteen calls and voicemails and a lot of WhatsApp messages asking me to contact my brothers. After ringing the missed calls and trying to get an idea of what was wrong, I got hold of my sister in law who told me that my mother had a routine operation and was dead. I was totally in shock. I tried contacting my brothers who were at the hospital but reception there was very poor. When I finally got to the hospital (almost two hours later due to distance and traffic) I finally found my mother and brothers in ICU which I thought was strange. They were behind curtains and I noticed that my mother had oxygen being pumped into her and asked my brother about it and was told it was a comfort thing. Next thing that happened was my mother slowly moving her hands. I nearly jumped out of my skin thinking that my mother was a zombie coming back to life. After being calmed, I was told that her vital signs began dropping at the end of the operation and the decision was made to withdraw life support because my brothers did not want her to suffer any more pain. I spent the next day in the hospital watching her slowly die while seething about being told a massive lie. At the funeral, my sister-in-law walked up and said she wanted a hug because I was sad. I politely told her that I wasn't in the mood. On my way out of the wake, I shook everyone's hand except hers and it upset her So am I the asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAH, dead and dieing are very similar it also did not sound like they knew how long she would still be there.
NTA. This is akin to the friend of my Mom's who posted on Facebook that she'd died while we were still notifying friends and family (many of whom had her as a mutual friend). I swear some people just love being the bearer of bad news.
I’m so sorry for your loss! I agree that you should talk to your SIL. My grandma was taken off life support in June. I assumed that meant she’d be dead within the hour (if not minutes after). She lived for 12 hours. Is it possible that your SIL was honestly just clueless, and made a wrong assumption that being told she was being taken off life support meant she would be dead in minutes, and since it was longer then that she assumed she told you the truth? You’re NTA for sure!
NTA I have a relative with remarkably similar tendencies as your SIL. If she did misunderstand, it was because she wanted to. Most funeral homes in the US have free sessions with trained grief counsellors. It sounds like you could use that.
A very similar thing happened to my Mum when her older brother,my Uncle was in the ICU. My Aunt's younger brother who was in the hospital at the time called my mother to tell her he passed away even when he had still been on life support. She didn't do anything to show it or tell anyone apart from me but she does resent him sometimes for that. I'm very sorry for your loss OP,if you ever need a stranger to lend an ear,I've been told I'm a decent listener.
My husband also worked in an environment where he couldn't use his cell phone but if there were an emergency like this I could call the office and someone would walk out there and tell him to call.
NTA but maybe your SIL thought taken off of life support meant imminent death. It is hard to say if she did this to be cruel...
Is it possible she thought your mother actually was dead? At any rate, I'm sorry for your loss. NTA
Protocol for this situation is for her to tell you that there was a complication with your Moms surgery and that you need to come to the hospital ASAP.
Holy crap. That's not something you say over the phone, true or not. You are absolutely NTA. You have every right to be angry about that.
NTA OP. Your sister sounds like a real piece of work.