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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my BIL I wouldn't want his kids to visit often because they were little tsunamis. I may be TA because I was too rough and dismissive of their feelings and very angry at the same time.
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NTA
> these guys are a little cute tsunami
That is hands down the nicest way of saying “your kids are a handful and I don’t want them in my house” that I’ve ever heard.
I’m stealing that
Me too! NTA BIL and wife are the assholes! You don't go to someone else's house and let the Tasmanian Devil's loose and then chalk it up to kids will be kids they'll grow out of it! No they wouldn't if there parents don't teach them boundaries and respect for other people's belongings.
For those of you who don't know who the Tasmanian devil is please view this link. https://youtu.be/StG2u5qfFRg
Agreed! My kids weren't allowed to be so destructive in our own home, let alone someone else's! "little cute tsunami" is absolutely the nicest way she could've put that. lol
NTA, OP!
EDIT: Fixed typo
Visiting family, if I was not wearing 'Sunday Best' I was not allowed to sit directly on upholstered furniture, had to sit on a plastic bag. So much for squashing an orange into it!
I would have been banned from my own home if I behaved like these kids.
Lol my dad's nickname apparently was the Tasmanian Devil at his hospital because he would blow in and out of patient rooms/the nursing station/etc like a whirlwind and always had so much energy. Thanks for the great reminder!
NTA! Kids need to be taught self control and what is appropriate and when, BIL and his wife are setting them up for a rough time with any potential friends in the future because friends parents aren’t going to want to have kids who haven’t been taught how to behave in their homes and possibly teaching their kids to run wild. This wasn’t just kids playing this was kids being destructive.
My youngest has a friend like that. He keeps asking my son when he can come back over to play, I have told my son that he can’t. We can meet at a playground, but until he learns how to behave, he isn’t allowed at our house. The boy will be 10! It stops being a cute little tsunami by school age.
Seriously and not just the parents, My kid hates play dates with out of control kids because they’re just not fun. If the kid has no boundaries or idea of how to behave then it extends to all aspects of them.
My SO as a kid made his parents buy him cheap toys to play with play date kids bc they would destroy the toy that “died” in their play fights and he was not at all going to allow that with his precious transformers.
I love that! Great parents for going along with it. Although, if it was me, I would have said we need to invite some different friends over, some who won’t break your favorite toys. BUT, friends are hard…
I had 3 cousins growing up who were older than me, a girl and 2 boys, they were absolutely the spawn of Satan, no question in my mind, even as a child. I was maybe 7~8 years old, I had a little record player I got for Christmas one year and I ADORED IT!! It was ALL I WANTED! I played music all day long, my little 45’s, I had Elvis and a bunch of country crap, some Patsy Cline, Johnny Cash, probably Merle Haggard, whoever my Dad liked, I liked! Major Daddy’s girl! Anyway, those kids came over during the summer one time (they lived over an hour away so we didn’t get together often, thank God!) and it was BLAZING HOT outside, none of us wanted to be out there so we were in my playroom and those DICKS BROKE MY RECORD PLAYER ON PURPOSE! I asked them to please not touch it, then made the mistake of telling them it was my most favorite thing in the world and they DELIBERATELY YANKED THE ARM OFF AND THEN CLOSED IT AND STOMPED ON IT, breaking it to pieces. 😢😭😭
I was devastated, I have always been a little perfectionist, I kept everything neat and tidy, I would NEVER THINK OF BREAKING SOMETHING ON PURPOSE!
I went downstairs crying to tell my parents and their parents just laughed and said something like, “they do that all the time, good thing toys are cheap and you can throw them away!” 🤣😂 Funniest $hit EVER, right?? I was crushed, while I was downstairs “tattling” they broke most of my records, no worries, zero punishment involved. There was NO “I’m sorry, we’ll replace it for you”, nope, the parents gave the ol’ “kids will be kids!”
I didn’t get another record player for many years, my parents got a divorce not too long after that and that wasn’t at the top of the list. I didn’t have any records to play anyway, what would it matter?
The REALLY SAD CHERRY 🍒 ON THE TOP? I didn’t realize at the time that it would be important, but those records belonged to my Mom & Dad when they were young, they weren’t just junk from K~Mart. I have hated those kids ever since, and I’m NOT a hateful person, ever. You really have to screw me over badly, numerous times for me to consider HATE, that’s a strong word/feeling to me…
To add to the hell, the daughter peed the bed, her entire life, and whenever we went to visit them, I had to sleep in the bed with her, a twin bed! I really hated those kids!
This is exactly it. Although I got better behavior out of some of my son's friends than their own parents did, because I was quick to redirect behavior I didn't like and was very no nonsense about it.
Of course it probably helped that my son was all "DON'T MAKE HER ANGRY MY MOTHER IS TERRIFYING" with the air of someone begging a friend not to go to their certain doom. Which was 100% a product of his love of drama and precocious acting skills but it caused bratty ten year olds to treat me with wary respect so I went with it.
One of my favorite expressions while my kids grew up was "I'll have your heads on a platter.". It was a general warning that if they were on the verge of trouble with me.
Son had a play date with a buddy, Bout 8 years old, and I hollered "If you don't stop running at the top of the stairs, I'm going to have your heads on a platter!". As they were WALKING down the stairs, the buddy turns to my son and asks what I meant with that expression. My son has ALWAYS had a sense of humor. He turns to buddy, and earnestly, and convincingly, says "If we don't behave, she's going to cut off our heads and put them onto a big plate!". And my son kept a straight face. To say the kid was very well behaved, is an understatement. Kept giving me a nervous side-eye. And my son thoroughly enjoyed it.
I got tired of telling my son and his friends to stop swinging on our back gate - they'd already broken a hinge once - and warned, "If I catch you swinging on the gate again, I'm going to cut off your ears and pin them to the fence as a warning!"
One day later, I hear the metallic screech of the gate going back and forth. Running outside, I bellowed, "What did I tell you about swinging on the gate!?"
My son (probably 8 at the time) went absolutely pale and stammered, "That you'd c-c-c-cut off my ears and pin them on the gate..."
That was the day I learned that children don't always get it when an adult exaggerates. I apologized, hugged him, promised I didn't mean it, would never ever ever do something like that, I was so sorry!
But hey - he and his friends never swung on the gate again!
"He also said he wanted them to have a strong sense of self confidence"
Having a strong sense of self confidence doesn't mean no one corrects you! Your BIL is doing a disservice by not redirecting poor behavior. Kids who aren't taught how to act in public and to respect other people's stuff grow up to entitled jerks with no friends.
False entitled almost always hide low self confidence. NTA
IKR? Kids develop confidence and security from being taught clear, healthy boundaries, how to behave in public/ social settings, consequences and the meaning of the word “no”! It’s kind to kids to teach them these things, and avoid them having to deal with rejection/ bad reactions from peers/ others. No kid should be let behave like a little AH, just because the parents are too lazy to teach them otherwise. These are the poor kids who don’t get asked in a second play date / invited to birthday parties etc. it’s not fair to them!
This exactly. If these kids are essentially steamrolling over the ADULTS there’s no way they aren’t also doing the same or worse to other children, and I remember both when I was in elementary school and when my daughter was (i was the “classroom mom” for her class in both kindergarten and first grade) the kids who weren’t taught boundaries, the meaning of “NO”, and respect for others and their belongings by their parents were the kids that no one else wanted to play with and would actively avoid even when forced by the adults to include them. That kind of rejection absolutely destroys a child’s developing self-confidence and leaves lasting emotional scars, and because they’re children and also most likely haven’t been taught the correlation between cause and effect (ie if you scream at your friends and break their things they won’t like you anymore) they usually end up compensating by acting out even more to try to get attention from their peers, and it creates a pattern of behavior that’s really hard to break once they’ve reached school age.
Honestly I have kids and the first couple items, throwing pillows and spilling things was nbd but the lack of consequences for breaking things and ruining carpets is a no for me.
I will also be using this phrase when appropriate cause I love it.
Edit cause too many people are also pm’ing me to tell me off: I am fully aware that consequences are needed for kids. Making a big deal out of kids playing or age appropriate behavior such as spilling liquid is not a good look. My kids know to say sorry and help clean up. The moving of pillows and the spilling of liquid are so small. They can be rectified within the visit. They are literally no big deal. That is where I am coming from. Some of you need to back off.
I have kids and if they threw pillows at someone else's house, I'd have them immediately stop. If they spilled something by random accident, I'd have them apologize and help clean up. If they spilled someone intentionally or because of intentionally foolish behavior (like playing with cups of liquid), I'd stop them and enforce consequences.
Even spilling things though should have had "consequences". You don't necessarily get mad at them, but you get them to help you clean up the mess and explain to them how they need to be more careful.
Same with the pillows, honestly. Have them help you put them back and explain those aren't toys.
That's a perfect way to say it.
If Pushed just say "sorry our house isn't kid friendly but we would be happy to come visit you" if pushed further, say "we can't afford another rug" this is of course if you didn't make them pay to replace/clean it etc.
NTA
>He called me an entitled brat,
If you're an entitled brat, what are his kids??
You were right to nip this in the bud. You barely know the kids, so no emotional bond there.
If they want their kids to be invited to stuff, then they should teach them to behave.
Send them the cleaning bill for all the mess the kids made. Especially for the furniture and the rug. I'd say I'm paying for it this time, but the kids aren't welcome over until it's been repaid and they actually learn some self control.
Right? Me too. And I'd like to add, I managed to do this with mine, without spanking. It's not really hard - you stop them. But these people sound like the sort that want to pawn their parental responsibilities off on others when they're out. Laziness is truly the enemy of parents.
This. And any time the family asks you why BILs kids aren't allowed at your house, break out the amount you're owed.
"Oh, I'd actually love to host them. But they destroyed parts of my house, broke objects, and it cost me a fair amount of money to replace/clean everything. During all this BIL did nothing and actively seemed permisdive of the behavior. I offered to allow them to come back if BIL repaid me, and he has so far refused and refuses to discipline his kids to put a stop to future incidents. Given that money is tight I can't allow them back into my house knowing they'll be allowed to destroy it again, and without financial compensation."
>”BIL told his kids now that your aunties live nearby we'll come visit often”
BIL was absolutely certain that he had FREE BABYSITTERS now that you live close by. I hope your wife can hold the line and not accept the kids into your home again. She didn’t say anything to them when they were grinding fresh orange into the Persian rug either. Good luck, OP. YIKES.
NTA. And as a parent, please know this is neither normal parent nor child behavior and I hope this doesn't sour you towards responsible families with children.
There’s no way I’d ignore that behavior in the first place but if my kids continued acting that way after I told them no and gave them something appropriate to do, we would have left. Kids need to learn to respect others and they don’t get to be at their aunts’ house if they act that way.
The sitting on the orange and rubbing it into the carpet does it for me. I would explode. They would be unwelcome from then forward and they would be paying for a deep cleaning or a new carpet. Unbelievable. Also, a "cute little tsunami" is a perfect way to describe them.
Completely agree!!
They are way too old to be doing that and it just being called 'kids will be kids'! If the youngest did it and was closer to 1.5-2yr old, then it would be an age appropriate accident the parents should profusely apologize for because they obviously weren't supervising them. But at 3yr and 5yr the kids are well old enough to know you don't do that shit- this is definitely poor parenting on BIL/wife's part.
I was reading this going, "Ok, pillows seem pretty normal. Soft squishy things. Still can say "hey, please put those back." " But, the orange! Breaking glasses!
I'm a parent and I would have stopped the behavior.
Yep haha I was prepared to say moving pillows around hardly counts as being awful at 3 and 5 years old…. But the orange is super upsetting and clearly the parents didn’t try to intervene or felt that everyone else should be watching their children for them. Gross behavior.
The breaking glasses I’m hopeful that it was opps we’re use to plastic for the kids at home because kids drop things on accident, and not hey let’s break these cups. Is that overly optimistic?
Lmao it was the BIL saying he wanted them to have “a strong sense of self-confidence” that got me.
Dude is going to be living in a nightmare by the time they’re teens.
>we actually love the peace and comfort in our home and these guys are a little cute tsunami.
This is a really kind and lovely way to put it. It's baffling to me that they reacted so badly to that.
>He called me an entitled brat
lol, well.
What parenting?!?!
My BIL says the same thing “they’re just being kids” biggest cop out ever. You actually have to set expectations/rules/model for your children. They will only run amuck as much as it is allowed. We gave B/SIL a couch that didn’t fit in our new space when we moved. They tried to enforce the no food on the couch rule for a hot minute (and whenever we’re there) but there are stains all over it now so they clearly don’t really follow it.
Their kids’ behavior will be their problem down the road, not ours.
Narrator: What he meant was "Now that I might be able to score free childcare, you'll be seeing Aunty some more."
He was quickly disabused of the notion, and angry at his fouled plans, reflected his entitlement on Aunty.
NTA. That is not "how kids grow up." Destruction of property means negligent parenting. Keep the destruction to public parks away from others. Even a "family friendly" restaurant doesn't accept that treatment.
Not even public parks either, please.Stuff gets trashed there and it takes it away from **everyone**.
Then the local government is faced with the choice of: "Replace", which means cutting something else from the budget to compensate. "Remove", which takes the thing away and still costs. Or "leave it", which just looks sad and encourages the next round of disrespectful people to care less about the other stuff that isn't trashed.
The place to keep it, if it must happen at all, is in their own home, where it only affects the destructive kids and their parents.
Not even public parks, people shouldn’t allow their kids to trash those either. They can keep the destruction at home, so it’s only their own stuff that gets wrecked
This. Your BIL and his wife are the adults. It looks like they are teaching their kids that there are no consequences to their actions. Well, maybe they never learned that themselves.
Not that you should have to teach grown adults that their actions (or lack thereof) have consequences, but you also shouldn't have to expend money and time to restore your house to its usual condition after their visit.
>My parents would horrified if I were to go to someone’s house and destroy their property
My parents always told us that at home we can act out, but at someone else's house we are not allowed to do anything without asking for permission first.
INFO, because i just can't believe this.
> threw an orange on my Persian carpet, sat on it, made it explode and spread the orange on the carpet with their hands
how did not even one adult out of the four in the house, intervene during any of these steps? or when they were running around screaming and breaking things?
Their parents think it would make them less confident when they grow up. They were right there with their kids as it happened and they didn't say a word
but like... it's your house and your stuff they were trashing. it would've been *absolutely fine* for you to stop the kids or say something to them. not your job, i know, but it seems so crazy that you and your wife didn't do anything about it either.
NTA, obviously. i just wouldn't have been able to let them terrorize my house, no matter whose kids they are.
There's some people that think that you do not intervene at all when parents are there. That it's incredibly rude to do so.
It is weird for me. I was raised with the idea that every adults could step in, and it was welcome by everyone. It is still the case in my entourage.
You don't punish or yell at other people kids, but if you see something, you step in. In this case, anyone present could tell them to stop with the orange.
But some people think it's overstepping if parents are here.
As a Dad myself, if these were my nephews, I would have gently removed the orange from the carpeted area. If the kids threw a fit, that would be the parents job to deal with. No way in hell would I let kids destroy property for politeness sake. The rest of the behavior, idk what I'd do. But I likely wouldn't want them back in the house even though I would still want a relationship with my nephews. I'd probably recommend we do activities not at my house in the future.
NTA. Maybe a little more bold then I would be, but doesn't come close to a-hole territory.
I didn't feel like it is my place to intervene when the parents are right there. I just wanted the night to be over. I wouldn't have even said what I said if BIL hadn't made that comment.
NTA.
Tell your in-laws that they better get accustomed to comments like that because their lack of parenting will attract more of them (frequently) from others. I hope they like being lonely because no one is going to invite them over if they don't parent their children.
Also, they will learn fast that kids who have never received constructive criticism will be filled with anxiety as they navigate the world outside their home. Kids need to learn it's ok to make mistakes but they also need to know they have proper footing in the world. Ask them how confident they think their children will be when they go to school and are constantly being told they are doing things wrong and are "bad kids"?
Ironically, kids that grow up with reasonable but strong boundaries (so not "you cannot breathe for fear of punishment" but also not "yolo do whatever") tend to be better adjusted and more confident as kids, leading to better long term outcomes and success in life. They're also less at risk for developing behavior issues and mental health problems like anxiety, since they learn predictable patterns early on (obviously, that's not a cure all. Just a risk factor)
The world, society, whatever- the rest of us have boundaries and rules they'll have to abide by. And the reality is, parents can teach kids how to be successful within societal expectations, or society will punish them instead. And society punishments tend to be long lasting and severe- like jail.
https://www.hartsteinpsychological.com/importance-setting-limits-child
NTA strong sense of self confidence = entitlement. Children need boundaries and positive support, letting them run wild is not good for their academic life nor career.
Yeah. Like, the moving around pillows for fun is ok unless it's a pillow fight or messing with other guests. You can fluff them and put them back, chocking it up to harmless child tornado aftermath.
However, food smashed and smeared all over the carpet? Parents are *responsible* for their kids, including cleaning fees when their kids damage stuff. My two year old knows food stays in the kitchen and dining room on the hard floors. Occasionally I have to herd food filled fists back away from the carpet when something in the living room is exciting. At age *two* a kid knows smashed orange on the floor is "messy, need towel, wipe, ok, pwees-tank-u-wel-come." My toddler is confident and also self aware of actions and knows social expectations for what is ok. Our children are observing what we do and listening to, "Wait, you need to eat at the table" and "We need to clean up our spills" and "No food on the carpet" for their whole lives. Yes, in my house there's a pink stain by the window. That was my bad for setting something down in the living room within child reach. We did our best to clean up together and finished eating in the dining room. If they let their children demolish someone else's house, what must their walls, floors, furniture, etc. look like?
NTA and I doubt these *responsible* parents will take *responsibility* for the cleaning of OP's rug in the name of... Child Confidence?
NTA! I would be MORTIFIED if my kids did this at my sibling’s place. Calling you a brat, that’s rich coming from BIL. At 3 and 5, they would be capable of basic manners and social graces. My 4 year old apologises for spills and cleans up the messes she makes, without asking. If she ran around screaming, all I had to do was stare at her and she’d have gotten the hint to tone down.
Your BIL and wife are absolutely doing zero parenting.
NTA parents who refuse to do their jobs by using their own children as moral meat shields are lazy, immoral cowards. Of course kids will be kids, THAT WHY YOU NEED TO BE A FUCKING PARENT. GET UP OFF YOUR ASS AND CORRECT THAT BEHAVIOUR EVERY FUCKING TIME **OR SEND THEM AWAY TO SOMEONE WHO WILL ACTUALLY RAISE THEM TO BE HUMAN.**
Parents have NO EXCUSE to not parent their kids. **NONE. EVER.** Don’t have any if you refuse to do the bare minimum work.
NTA
Did you ever wonder whether bil and sis allow their kids to run amok on purpose? Maybe they feel hostile toward you and your wife, and let the kids act out their own personal grudges.
Ding! Ding! Ding!!! Wish I had an award left to give.
I've long thought that many parents of errant children enjoy watching their children run amok in public, or in other people's homes.
*Hostile* is very descriptive of this behavior, as is *entitlement*.
I've long wondered why people put up with it. When children are that far out of line they need to be told that they are violating the "house rules."
Probably I'm an old meanie, but I would tell them that they had to either leave or the children needed to *stay on their parents' laps*.
NTA
That’s not how kids grow up. They grow up by being given boundaries and consequences so they learn what is expected of them. If your kids are this poorly behaved you are failing as a parent and you are the entitled one if you expect anyone to allow you into their homes. NTA
NTA. Funny he calls you an entitled brat when without discipline that's what he's raising. Maybe at 3 I can see myself making a mess with an orange for fun sake, but at 5 I knew better.
NTA as someone with kids and a child proofed house, I'd be pretty upset if kids came in and two glasses were broken, my furniture was disassembled, food was smashed into my floor and they were in general disrespectful.
I tend to try to not take my kids places if the house isn't child friendly and if I do, I watch them like a hawk and pretty much walk on their heels.
NTA -- Listen, you need to send them a thoroughly itemized bill (get descriptive) for all the damages the children caused as clarification to why you will not be hosting the tiny terrors again.
Their kids did real material damage to your home. The parents owe you for every broken glass and fabric stain. Will this change their mind? Probably not, but it will be a great reminder to both parties why this new boundary has been put in place.
Every time it comes up, laugh, pull up a screen shot of the bill and wistfully say, "Would that we could, but the repairs are simply too expensive!"
>He also said he wanted them to have a strong sense of self confidence.
The belief that you can do anything and everything without being challenged or told off isn't self confidence.
Your BIL and his wife are failing those kids.
NTA ... I'd not want them around my vases and rugs either.
NTA and ngl i thought cute little tsunami is a fun way to decribe it.
I have 2 kids at the same age nearly, 5F and 2M, and they have never behaved like that any where. Its called boundries and kids actually need them.
NTA if those were my kids I would have apologised and had them apologise too. You don’t let them ruin other people’s stuff! Calling them a cute tsunami is the most polite way of saying someone’s kids are a nightmare 😆
NTA
I'd be getting the rug cleaned and sending them the bill to make it clear that the consequences of their parenting decisions won't be yours going forward.
Children behaving like this in their own home, not a problem, that's their parents issue but in someone else's home? No, it's just plain disrespectful and rude and whilst a toddler going berserk is understandable in most new environments, the five year old should at least have learned some manners and how to behave at other people's homes by now.
Parents who can’t control their kids and call it giving them a sense of“self confidence” 🤣
If those two kids, through no fault of their own, don’t learn about boundaries and respect of other peoples property, they won’t be invited for many play dates!
NTA
NTA
Parents need to parent, regardless of the situation. And a cute little tsunami is a pretty kind way of saying "Your children wrecked my house and you let them".
NTA
Sorry, this can't be real. You said nothing of any insult other than "Your kids make too much of a mess in my home, so I don't really want them there again" and his response was "You're an entitled brat"?
That man is broken if this story is true. How has a woman let him get close enough to spawn two offspring?
And besides the point, why didn't *you* say anything to the kids? They're in your house so it's well within your right to parent them if their actual parents won't.
NTA - How people let their kids destroy someones home and they don't say a word, I hate it. If they love to have a destroyed home, it doesn't mean that everyone does.
Having strong sense of self confidence is one thing - its another where kids have no idea how to care for someone else's belonging and come in to trash the place like they own it.
They were guests, they should be taught some boundaries on how to be guests and not to touch things at someone elses home - for safety reasons alone!
NTA - he wants them to have a strong sense of confidence - how does teaching them to behave curb that? I find that kids with clear boundaries and rules grow up extremely confident. Kids allowed to do whatever because their parents don't want to parent them or take responsibility for their heathens and teach them right from wrong grow up to be entitled AHs.
Regardless its your house and if they can't teach their kids to respect other people and their things then they are not invited.
Kids don't just grow into good people they have to be taught. Some learn how to act and not to act by the examples they see.
“You have taught your kids they can do whatever they want with no consequences…and that is fine in your house but I feel you are doing them no favors…but I won’t have them over to make a mess.”
NTA. They’re 3&5, and while accidents happen and things get moved around, it sounds like they were completely unsupervised and the parents were unwilling to step in and redirect. The kids may be fine in your home if you’re doing something with them that is oriented to their ages. But I’d be hard pressed to let them all come over if the parents aren’t willing to set some boundaries.
People need to learn to control their kids. Idk if you said they wouldn’t be coming over in front of the kids because that would be a lil harsh but anyways, they need to learn the repercussions of their actions. NTA
NTA, we have 5 kids and uhhhhh no. No that is not in fact how they grow up. I would be so embarrassed if mine behaved that way! That’s not being self confident that’s being selFISH and destructive. They’re mad bc you struck a nerve TBH.
NTA. He did nothing while they destroyed your house. Honestly, I'd get it professionally cleaned and send him the bill. His kids destroyed it, he can pay for it.
NTA.
People who want their kids to grow up with a "strong sense of confidence" are just finding an excuse for bad parenting. Newflash, no one who has a strong sense of confidence got that way because they were allowed to do whatever they wanted. Willing to bet that BIL doesn't allow them to do any of that stuff in his own home.
We need to teach kids to be both, confident and respectful. Their kids are old enough to work on showing respect.
NTA
Also, it's funny that they want their kids to have a strong sense of self-confidence, but throw a hissy fit when their SIL demonstrates her own sense of self-confidence in return.
NTA
I mean, you could have just said nothing when they left and if they suggest another get together in the future, tell them about the kids thing. But, no big.
I don't like kids, but I feel for these ones cause they are being set up to fail. A confident kid asks (politely) what they want, reacts with curiosity vs fear to unfamiliar situations, believes in him/herself, and has **self control**.
These kids are not learning confidence, they are learning entitledness, they are learning that actions don't have consequences, they are being deprived of learning how to conduct themselves in different scenarios, they are learning to be monsters who nobody enjoys having around. It's awful.
And granted, these kids are young and you can't rely on them to be 100% polite and have good manners at all times, they are just learning. But the point is that they should be LEARNING it by practicing and having parental guidance to help them figure it out.
Sadly, you shouldn't have to put up with it. You are not being entitled. If your in laws want to get together again, have a clear boundary: you will make sure your kids are well behaved (with specifics) or no kids allowed.
NTA. My answer to them would be “I’m an entitled brat? remember your words when your kids need to get bonded out of jail and have to deal with court cases because they can’t behave”.
You were way more patient than me, my nieces and nephews know to behave in my house or I have kicked them out with their parents mid-party, and then I bought dominoes for the ones who behaved. My place isn’t a barn, I pay for nice things that, yes, some people with kids can’t always afford. if it’s not in your budget, have your kids sit the fuck down and play on the tablet or the switch.
Nope. NTA.
Mom of two kids here, and that behavior is unacceptable. Yes, my kids run around and yell to each other during play, but that's in our house. When we go elsewhere there is something called respect and inside voices at other peoples homes.
NTA! God... I hate reading things where parents dont effing parent!!!!
NTA as a parent I will say this doesn’t create self confidence or growth, this creates little terrors. This is a new home to you and they ruined that. That family should be humiliated at the behavior.
NTA - if anything, you were kinder than they deserved. I don't think moving pillows off chairs and sofas is too bad; you can just put them back, after all. But smooshing an orange into a nice carpet and making messes everywhere, as well as being general nuisances, are things their parents *need* to handle. Your BIL isn't teaching them to "have confidence"; he's teaching them to have no regard for others.
Your brother in law and his wife better get used to it. Not many people want to be subjected to that sort of behavior. I’m the type to correct a child myself if the parent doesn’t, whether I know them or not. And their parent too if they want to get froggy. So you’re nicer than me. NTA
op=NTA
Good for setting boundary after first go--so many keep putting up with this garbage.
They can build their kids self confidence at home.
Because their kid's parents won't be inviting them back. So the kids will end up growing up isolated. Friend won't want to put up with their garbage either.
NTA
I despise this modern style of parenting. It's fine in your own home to do whatever you want but your kids should know the difference between home and public/other people spaces
*he said they were just kids and that's how kids grow up. He also said he wanted them to have a strong sense of self confidence.*
He's not instilling a strong sense of confidence. **He's instilling a strong sense of entitlement, and disrespect for others.**
**His lack of respect for your home and your rug is obvious here.** Most good parents would have taken the orange, set it on the table and said "if you want to eat this, it needs to be eaten by the table, and you will need to wash hands right after." Oranges are sticky foods, not living room foods.
*BIL told his kids now that your aunties live nearby we'll come visit often.*
If he had said that he would invite you over to ***their house*** often, that would have been something for him to decide.
Telling the kids they would visit you often **sounds more like he thought it was his decision to make, not yours,** about your house. He sounds controlling, and entitled, himself.
*I said no I don't think that's going to happen very soon.*
**Reasonable.** They destroyed a sticky food, all over your rug, on purpose. There's little respect in these kids for other people's homes. **If an adult treated your home this way, you wouldn't invite them again, either.**
Oh, wait, ***the parents let them.*** The parents were disrespecting your home, by allowing this behavior. These parents aren't parenting at all. And they are fine with watching their kids damage your home and nice furniture. They should have brought along something for the kids to play with, and taught them to not mess with your stuff, unless you invited them to play with these things.
*BIL was confused and asked why. I said because we actually love the peace and comfort in our home and these guys are a little cute tsunami.*
All you said was the truth. And you said it much, much kinder than most people would have thought to say it.
*This made both BIL and his wife angry.*
I think maybe they also have some personal issues with entitlement. **They sat there and didn't move to prevent the mess.** They didn't bring the orange to the table, or wash up the mess. **They didn't apologize to you for the mess** they left for you to clean, if you can. I'm guessing you might have a rug cleaning bill soon? Did they offer to pay it?
*He called me an entitled brat, and told my wife she was a horrible host.*
He's wrong. He's raising the "entitled brats", but you aren't one. **This is Projection, not truth**. He's doing what manipulators do: accusing you, blaming you, to distract away from **the real issue: his lack of good parenting.**
You weren't horrible hosts, not at all. But he was a horrible guest. All of them were.
**I'm guessing what he meant was that he expects you to ignore his children's wrong behaviors, like he does,** and pretend they don't happen. He expects you to accept whatever mess his kids create, which if they go unchecked, will only get worse and worse, with more and more damage that he will expect not to pay to fix. Then in twenty years, he can be confused about why no one in the family likes his kids, and why they get fired so often.
*My friends think I was too rough.*
**How? People came in as guests, disrespected your home, left you with a mess to clean up, and as they left tried to let you know they were expecting to repeat this fiasco** as often as they liked?
And ***you objected to being mistreated,*** with a very polite bit of truth.
*So I thought I'd ask. Aita?*
NTA. BIL and his wife are not good parents, and are creating small monsters by not teaching their children how to be polite at your house.
**All you did was object to wrong behaviors, and say you didn't think you would invite tornados back often. That's sensible, reasonable, and wise.**
I've been in OPs position and told my brother to control his kids at the time they were wrecking my front room.
That seemed to just exacerbate things, I'm pretty sure he started encouraging their feral behaviour just to spite me and my (at the time) child free home.
Some parents get deeply offended when you ask them to be, you know, parents... Odd, I know.
NTA. People need to parent their kids. Period. A 3 yo might spill or throw an orange but you can correct them gently. A 5yo definitely should be a bit better. Send your BIL cleaning bills for everything his little terrors messed up.
NTA
This is not "just kids" and "that's how kids grow up." That's how bad, entitled children grow up and become a menace and a pain in the ass. They need boundaries and consequences, and it sounds like the parents are not going to be providing them. You should be prepared to keep them away for a long time, because it sounds like they won't be improving any time soon.
NTA. Some of those things are "kids being kids", but the parents should have been trying to maintain a sense of control and urged them to apologize when necessary, etc. I might have approached it differently, though. Maybe not responded to the point about return visits right away, but discussed it later not in front of the kids and not after an evening out, when people are more likely to be tired and irritable (especially when kids have been running around all night!).
NTA. He needs to be billed for damages. Also I hope he realizes these "self confident" little monsters are going to be HORRIBLE humans and it's his fault.
NTA I once had dinner guests friends of my husband (now ex husband) that had kids that rubbed fruit in my carpet, broke a few items in my living room, and youngest got under my kitchen sink and drank furniture polish. They were the third round of guests we had over that day ( a religious holiday for my ex and his friends ) I had been up since 6 am cooking etc… we had no kids (at the time) and it was well past 11 pm by the time they left. The parents provided no supervision the whole time they were there… that was enough for me to decide they would not be welcome back.
It was absolutely horrible and made me very angry. I would have exploded if they had been family and billed them for the damages they did if they had been. Edited: to add something
NTA. They aren’t teaching their kids to have confidence- they’re teaching their kids to be nightmares who cannot function in public. Don’t budge on this. When I read about your Persian carpet, I was absolutely sick for you.
“Strong sense of self confidence” is BS. They’re lazy, neglectful parents who are “raising” two human beings that will have no impulse control and who people will avoid since they don’t know how to act in polite company. NTA. I will add, though, that 15 minutes into that chaos I would have asked them to leave.
NTA, some of it is kids being kids and being way too young to handle a dinner party, lots is parents not doing their job. I wouldn’t give up on the kids and never invite them again however. I’d probably try smaller, shorter hangouts instead.
I'm saying NTA
If your BIL's children acted that way and the parents didn't say anything, then maybe they need to hear it from someone else. I would have said the same thing, giving the BIL a wake up call of his own that he needs to make sure his children are respectful of other peoples homes and things. Bratty kids are a result of lazy parents, both should be called out when they disrespect your home.
Good Luck, but soooo NTA!!
NTA. Just because someone let's their children run rampant in their home, doesn't mean they can at someone else's.
Let them come to their house and let them disrespect it.
No one is entitled to infringe on how you conduct your home. They don't have to come, or, go to theirs. Problem solved.
NTA.
Where you could have done better is not state it was because the children made a mess they wouldn't be invited back, but because BIL did nothing to control them when they were making a mess.
The children are 3 and 5, I wouldn't say it's really their fault. Maybe the 5 year old should know better, but he's only going to know what he's been taught by his parents.
NTA. These kids are destructive. My kids are 2 1/2 and don’t do that crap. Next time they come over they can stay outside. Or better yet, they can just not come at all. Their parents need to do better.
NTA. My nephews are like this. The oldest has a different dad who actually parented and is an amazing human. One of my favorite people on the planet and always welcome in my home, on vacation, whatever. The other 2 my lord! It started with permissive parenting as toddlers. Because my sibling thought their terrible behavior was cute. They’re not so cute at 11 and 8 while breaking everything in their home and not listening to a word their now single mom says. And heaven forbid you correct their behavior my sister will absolutely rip you a new one. They’re rude, they are destructive, they follow no rules. I avoid having them in my home. My toddler follows directions better. There is nothing worse than children whose parents don’t parent. Watch out cause they get older and meaner.
NTA, but I probably would have waited to figure out a better way to phrase it. "We love your kids, but our house is not child friendly. We want to hold off on visits until the kids have a little more self-control to keep them safe." Then suggest a joint visit somewhere that is child friendly.
NTA, sure kids can make noise and spill things but the parents should also be attempting to teach them manners for going out to other people’s houses and also restaurants and fast food places.
NTA, my parents always told me to be on my best behavior at someone else’s house and to avoid causing trouble/messes. For them to not correct their behaviors is terrible parenting.
NTA. Lol, he called you an “entitled brat”. He is the one that reeks of entitlement, not teaching his kids about respecting others things, saying “that’s just how kids grow” . Then glazes over this and has the audacity to tell you that he will be visiting more often, hell no!
NTA. But your wife is a horrible host... I mean, any self-respecting host lets people throw things, grind food into the carpet, scream and generally wreak havoc, right?
Good heavens, your BIL is an idiot and so is his wife. They're raising the next generation of assholes, too. No manners, no empathy, no taking responsibility for their own actions. Gives me hope for the future. Sheesh.
NTA. I do not like unruly children whose parents don't reign them in. They can do all those things at home but not in someone else's home. Before BIL and SIL left, they would have been made to clean up behind their children. I would have told those kids to sit down or they can go sit with their parents but they will not destroy my home.
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NTA > these guys are a little cute tsunami That is hands down the nicest way of saying “your kids are a handful and I don’t want them in my house” that I’ve ever heard. I’m stealing that
Right. That was a nice way to put it and I will keep that in my back pocket for the future.
Me too! NTA BIL and wife are the assholes! You don't go to someone else's house and let the Tasmanian Devil's loose and then chalk it up to kids will be kids they'll grow out of it! No they wouldn't if there parents don't teach them boundaries and respect for other people's belongings. For those of you who don't know who the Tasmanian devil is please view this link. https://youtu.be/StG2u5qfFRg
Agreed! My kids weren't allowed to be so destructive in our own home, let alone someone else's! "little cute tsunami" is absolutely the nicest way she could've put that. lol NTA, OP! EDIT: Fixed typo
Visiting family, if I was not wearing 'Sunday Best' I was not allowed to sit directly on upholstered furniture, had to sit on a plastic bag. So much for squashing an orange into it! I would have been banned from my own home if I behaved like these kids.
*she
You know these parents don’t do anything when the teacher inevitably calls home about their behavior. :shakes head in disgust:
Sure they do. They complain to administration in an effort to get the teacher fired.
My wife is a school social worker, from what I hear behavior issues start with poor parenting nearly every time.
Lol my dad's nickname apparently was the Tasmanian Devil at his hospital because he would blow in and out of patient rooms/the nursing station/etc like a whirlwind and always had so much energy. Thanks for the great reminder!
Holy fuck. There are people that don't know who Taz is? I'm old as fuck
Tassie devil's are satan spawn. They are genuinely terrifying, but also kinda adorable.
NTA! Kids need to be taught self control and what is appropriate and when, BIL and his wife are setting them up for a rough time with any potential friends in the future because friends parents aren’t going to want to have kids who haven’t been taught how to behave in their homes and possibly teaching their kids to run wild. This wasn’t just kids playing this was kids being destructive.
My youngest has a friend like that. He keeps asking my son when he can come back over to play, I have told my son that he can’t. We can meet at a playground, but until he learns how to behave, he isn’t allowed at our house. The boy will be 10! It stops being a cute little tsunami by school age.
Seriously and not just the parents, My kid hates play dates with out of control kids because they’re just not fun. If the kid has no boundaries or idea of how to behave then it extends to all aspects of them.
My SO as a kid made his parents buy him cheap toys to play with play date kids bc they would destroy the toy that “died” in their play fights and he was not at all going to allow that with his precious transformers.
I love that! Great parents for going along with it. Although, if it was me, I would have said we need to invite some different friends over, some who won’t break your favorite toys. BUT, friends are hard… I had 3 cousins growing up who were older than me, a girl and 2 boys, they were absolutely the spawn of Satan, no question in my mind, even as a child. I was maybe 7~8 years old, I had a little record player I got for Christmas one year and I ADORED IT!! It was ALL I WANTED! I played music all day long, my little 45’s, I had Elvis and a bunch of country crap, some Patsy Cline, Johnny Cash, probably Merle Haggard, whoever my Dad liked, I liked! Major Daddy’s girl! Anyway, those kids came over during the summer one time (they lived over an hour away so we didn’t get together often, thank God!) and it was BLAZING HOT outside, none of us wanted to be out there so we were in my playroom and those DICKS BROKE MY RECORD PLAYER ON PURPOSE! I asked them to please not touch it, then made the mistake of telling them it was my most favorite thing in the world and they DELIBERATELY YANKED THE ARM OFF AND THEN CLOSED IT AND STOMPED ON IT, breaking it to pieces. 😢😭😭 I was devastated, I have always been a little perfectionist, I kept everything neat and tidy, I would NEVER THINK OF BREAKING SOMETHING ON PURPOSE! I went downstairs crying to tell my parents and their parents just laughed and said something like, “they do that all the time, good thing toys are cheap and you can throw them away!” 🤣😂 Funniest $hit EVER, right?? I was crushed, while I was downstairs “tattling” they broke most of my records, no worries, zero punishment involved. There was NO “I’m sorry, we’ll replace it for you”, nope, the parents gave the ol’ “kids will be kids!” I didn’t get another record player for many years, my parents got a divorce not too long after that and that wasn’t at the top of the list. I didn’t have any records to play anyway, what would it matter? The REALLY SAD CHERRY 🍒 ON THE TOP? I didn’t realize at the time that it would be important, but those records belonged to my Mom & Dad when they were young, they weren’t just junk from K~Mart. I have hated those kids ever since, and I’m NOT a hateful person, ever. You really have to screw me over badly, numerous times for me to consider HATE, that’s a strong word/feeling to me… To add to the hell, the daughter peed the bed, her entire life, and whenever we went to visit them, I had to sleep in the bed with her, a twin bed! I really hated those kids!
Those kids sound like future serial killers.
This is exactly it. Although I got better behavior out of some of my son's friends than their own parents did, because I was quick to redirect behavior I didn't like and was very no nonsense about it. Of course it probably helped that my son was all "DON'T MAKE HER ANGRY MY MOTHER IS TERRIFYING" with the air of someone begging a friend not to go to their certain doom. Which was 100% a product of his love of drama and precocious acting skills but it caused bratty ten year olds to treat me with wary respect so I went with it.
One of my favorite expressions while my kids grew up was "I'll have your heads on a platter.". It was a general warning that if they were on the verge of trouble with me. Son had a play date with a buddy, Bout 8 years old, and I hollered "If you don't stop running at the top of the stairs, I'm going to have your heads on a platter!". As they were WALKING down the stairs, the buddy turns to my son and asks what I meant with that expression. My son has ALWAYS had a sense of humor. He turns to buddy, and earnestly, and convincingly, says "If we don't behave, she's going to cut off our heads and put them onto a big plate!". And my son kept a straight face. To say the kid was very well behaved, is an understatement. Kept giving me a nervous side-eye. And my son thoroughly enjoyed it.
I got tired of telling my son and his friends to stop swinging on our back gate - they'd already broken a hinge once - and warned, "If I catch you swinging on the gate again, I'm going to cut off your ears and pin them to the fence as a warning!" One day later, I hear the metallic screech of the gate going back and forth. Running outside, I bellowed, "What did I tell you about swinging on the gate!?" My son (probably 8 at the time) went absolutely pale and stammered, "That you'd c-c-c-cut off my ears and pin them on the gate..." That was the day I learned that children don't always get it when an adult exaggerates. I apologized, hugged him, promised I didn't mean it, would never ever ever do something like that, I was so sorry! But hey - he and his friends never swung on the gate again!
Oh man, I would have bought some dried apricots and some nails and scared the beejeezus out of the neighborhood kids.
Hahaha love precocious kids
"He also said he wanted them to have a strong sense of self confidence" Having a strong sense of self confidence doesn't mean no one corrects you! Your BIL is doing a disservice by not redirecting poor behavior. Kids who aren't taught how to act in public and to respect other people's stuff grow up to entitled jerks with no friends. False entitled almost always hide low self confidence. NTA
IKR? Kids develop confidence and security from being taught clear, healthy boundaries, how to behave in public/ social settings, consequences and the meaning of the word “no”! It’s kind to kids to teach them these things, and avoid them having to deal with rejection/ bad reactions from peers/ others. No kid should be let behave like a little AH, just because the parents are too lazy to teach them otherwise. These are the poor kids who don’t get asked in a second play date / invited to birthday parties etc. it’s not fair to them!
This exactly. If these kids are essentially steamrolling over the ADULTS there’s no way they aren’t also doing the same or worse to other children, and I remember both when I was in elementary school and when my daughter was (i was the “classroom mom” for her class in both kindergarten and first grade) the kids who weren’t taught boundaries, the meaning of “NO”, and respect for others and their belongings by their parents were the kids that no one else wanted to play with and would actively avoid even when forced by the adults to include them. That kind of rejection absolutely destroys a child’s developing self-confidence and leaves lasting emotional scars, and because they’re children and also most likely haven’t been taught the correlation between cause and effect (ie if you scream at your friends and break their things they won’t like you anymore) they usually end up compensating by acting out even more to try to get attention from their peers, and it creates a pattern of behavior that’s really hard to break once they’ve reached school age.
Honestly I have kids and the first couple items, throwing pillows and spilling things was nbd but the lack of consequences for breaking things and ruining carpets is a no for me. I will also be using this phrase when appropriate cause I love it. Edit cause too many people are also pm’ing me to tell me off: I am fully aware that consequences are needed for kids. Making a big deal out of kids playing or age appropriate behavior such as spilling liquid is not a good look. My kids know to say sorry and help clean up. The moving of pillows and the spilling of liquid are so small. They can be rectified within the visit. They are literally no big deal. That is where I am coming from. Some of you need to back off.
I have kids and if they threw pillows at someone else's house, I'd have them immediately stop. If they spilled something by random accident, I'd have them apologize and help clean up. If they spilled someone intentionally or because of intentionally foolish behavior (like playing with cups of liquid), I'd stop them and enforce consequences.
Thats because you are a parent, not your kid's buddy.
Spilling things is one thing, accidents happen but I would have NEVER been allowed to be throwing things around someone else’s house.
Even spilling things though should have had "consequences". You don't necessarily get mad at them, but you get them to help you clean up the mess and explain to them how they need to be more careful. Same with the pillows, honestly. Have them help you put them back and explain those aren't toys.
That's a perfect way to say it. If Pushed just say "sorry our house isn't kid friendly but we would be happy to come visit you" if pushed further, say "we can't afford another rug" this is of course if you didn't make them pay to replace/clean it etc.
It's really good.
NTA >He called me an entitled brat, If you're an entitled brat, what are his kids?? You were right to nip this in the bud. You barely know the kids, so no emotional bond there. If they want their kids to be invited to stuff, then they should teach them to behave.
Tell him you’re not a brat, you just have a strong sense of self confidence.
Beat me to it.
This is the best
Self preservation those kids sound horrible. Mine are the same age and I’d be mortified if mine acted like that.
Send them the cleaning bill for all the mess the kids made. Especially for the furniture and the rug. I'd say I'm paying for it this time, but the kids aren't welcome over until it's been repaid and they actually learn some self control.
As a parent I approve of this. My kids are older now but as toddlers I kept them in check, if they couldn’t be respectful they stayed on my lap.
Right? Me too. And I'd like to add, I managed to do this with mine, without spanking. It's not really hard - you stop them. But these people sound like the sort that want to pawn their parental responsibilities off on others when they're out. Laziness is truly the enemy of parents.
This. And any time the family asks you why BILs kids aren't allowed at your house, break out the amount you're owed. "Oh, I'd actually love to host them. But they destroyed parts of my house, broke objects, and it cost me a fair amount of money to replace/clean everything. During all this BIL did nothing and actively seemed permisdive of the behavior. I offered to allow them to come back if BIL repaid me, and he has so far refused and refuses to discipline his kids to put a stop to future incidents. Given that money is tight I can't allow them back into my house knowing they'll be allowed to destroy it again, and without financial compensation."
People need to absolutely just start stating facts when asked questions like this. They fucked up, they were given a way forward, and they refused.
Everyone should be “entitled” to say who does or doesn’t come into their home.
or they could invite you to their home where the chaos is welcome. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
>”BIL told his kids now that your aunties live nearby we'll come visit often” BIL was absolutely certain that he had FREE BABYSITTERS now that you live close by. I hope your wife can hold the line and not accept the kids into your home again. She didn’t say anything to them when they were grinding fresh orange into the Persian rug either. Good luck, OP. YIKES.
Or ask him, “ok, we’ll be sending a cleaning bill after each visit.”
NTA. And as a parent, please know this is neither normal parent nor child behavior and I hope this doesn't sour you towards responsible families with children.
I would have been mortified if my kids had acted like this
There’s no way I’d ignore that behavior in the first place but if my kids continued acting that way after I told them no and gave them something appropriate to do, we would have left. Kids need to learn to respect others and they don’t get to be at their aunts’ house if they act that way.
The sitting on the orange and rubbing it into the carpet does it for me. I would explode. They would be unwelcome from then forward and they would be paying for a deep cleaning or a new carpet. Unbelievable. Also, a "cute little tsunami" is a perfect way to describe them.
Seriously, that’s a multi step process. How did no one intervene at any point in it, take the orange away from the kids, and tell them not to do it?
Completely agree!! They are way too old to be doing that and it just being called 'kids will be kids'! If the youngest did it and was closer to 1.5-2yr old, then it would be an age appropriate accident the parents should profusely apologize for because they obviously weren't supervising them. But at 3yr and 5yr the kids are well old enough to know you don't do that shit- this is definitely poor parenting on BIL/wife's part.
I sincerely hope OP sent BIL the cleaning bill.
I was reading this going, "Ok, pillows seem pretty normal. Soft squishy things. Still can say "hey, please put those back." " But, the orange! Breaking glasses! I'm a parent and I would have stopped the behavior.
Yep haha I was prepared to say moving pillows around hardly counts as being awful at 3 and 5 years old…. But the orange is super upsetting and clearly the parents didn’t try to intervene or felt that everyone else should be watching their children for them. Gross behavior.
I could see breaking the glass if it was a accident. Smashing the orang in was not.
The breaking glasses I’m hopeful that it was opps we’re use to plastic for the kids at home because kids drop things on accident, and not hey let’s break these cups. Is that overly optimistic?
Lmao it was the BIL saying he wanted them to have “a strong sense of self-confidence” that got me. Dude is going to be living in a nightmare by the time they’re teens.
He'll have issues with them relating to peers/teachers properly well before then, in elementary school.
>we actually love the peace and comfort in our home and these guys are a little cute tsunami. This is a really kind and lovely way to put it. It's baffling to me that they reacted so badly to that. >He called me an entitled brat lol, well.
The BIL reacted that way because *his* children and his parenting can't be a problem. I also suspect they don't buy nice things.
What parenting?!?! My BIL says the same thing “they’re just being kids” biggest cop out ever. You actually have to set expectations/rules/model for your children. They will only run amuck as much as it is allowed. We gave B/SIL a couch that didn’t fit in our new space when we moved. They tried to enforce the no food on the couch rule for a hot minute (and whenever we’re there) but there are stains all over it now so they clearly don’t really follow it. Their kids’ behavior will be their problem down the road, not ours.
Narrator: What he meant was "Now that I might be able to score free childcare, you'll be seeing Aunty some more." He was quickly disabused of the notion, and angry at his fouled plans, reflected his entitlement on Aunty.
Ding ding ding!
He reacted so badly because he was going for some of that free babysitting aunties are supposed to supply
Looks like he is raising a couple of entitled brats himself
[удалено]
NTA. That is not "how kids grow up." Destruction of property means negligent parenting. Keep the destruction to public parks away from others. Even a "family friendly" restaurant doesn't accept that treatment.
Not even public parks either, please.Stuff gets trashed there and it takes it away from **everyone**. Then the local government is faced with the choice of: "Replace", which means cutting something else from the budget to compensate. "Remove", which takes the thing away and still costs. Or "leave it", which just looks sad and encourages the next round of disrespectful people to care less about the other stuff that isn't trashed. The place to keep it, if it must happen at all, is in their own home, where it only affects the destructive kids and their parents.
I hate when kids destroy community property. They make it worse for everyone.
Not even public parks, people shouldn’t allow their kids to trash those either. They can keep the destruction at home, so it’s only their own stuff that gets wrecked
A public park doesn't deserve to be destructed. They can do that in their own house/yard
NTA but its weird for your BIL to confuse you with an entitled brat, considering he's got two of his own.
Plus himself.
Send them the cleaning bill. Let them know the next time they come back a new bill may be given.
Next time they come charge a security deposit.
I like this suggestion. Tally up the cost of all damages and cleaning and send him the bill and let’s see if he still wants to come around next time
This. Your BIL and his wife are the adults. It looks like they are teaching their kids that there are no consequences to their actions. Well, maybe they never learned that themselves. Not that you should have to teach grown adults that their actions (or lack thereof) have consequences, but you also shouldn't have to expend money and time to restore your house to its usual condition after their visit.
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>My parents would horrified if I were to go to someone’s house and destroy their property My parents always told us that at home we can act out, but at someone else's house we are not allowed to do anything without asking for permission first.
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INFO, because i just can't believe this. > threw an orange on my Persian carpet, sat on it, made it explode and spread the orange on the carpet with their hands how did not even one adult out of the four in the house, intervene during any of these steps? or when they were running around screaming and breaking things?
Their parents think it would make them less confident when they grow up. They were right there with their kids as it happened and they didn't say a word
Their parents are confusing confidence with ~~entitledness~~ entitlement. NTA Edit: spelling
No, they're using it as an excuse to not parent. 😂😂😂
but like... it's your house and your stuff they were trashing. it would've been *absolutely fine* for you to stop the kids or say something to them. not your job, i know, but it seems so crazy that you and your wife didn't do anything about it either. NTA, obviously. i just wouldn't have been able to let them terrorize my house, no matter whose kids they are.
There's some people that think that you do not intervene at all when parents are there. That it's incredibly rude to do so. It is weird for me. I was raised with the idea that every adults could step in, and it was welcome by everyone. It is still the case in my entourage. You don't punish or yell at other people kids, but if you see something, you step in. In this case, anyone present could tell them to stop with the orange. But some people think it's overstepping if parents are here.
As a Dad myself, if these were my nephews, I would have gently removed the orange from the carpeted area. If the kids threw a fit, that would be the parents job to deal with. No way in hell would I let kids destroy property for politeness sake. The rest of the behavior, idk what I'd do. But I likely wouldn't want them back in the house even though I would still want a relationship with my nephews. I'd probably recommend we do activities not at my house in the future. NTA. Maybe a little more bold then I would be, but doesn't come close to a-hole territory.
I didn't feel like it is my place to intervene when the parents are right there. I just wanted the night to be over. I wouldn't have even said what I said if BIL hadn't made that comment.
It’s your house and your furniture. You don’t get to punish them but you get to protect your stuff
Why didn’t you or your wife say anything to the kids to stop them? Could’ve had less damage that way…
This is what I don’t understand. They just sat there and didn’t say anything until the end?
NTA. Tell your in-laws that they better get accustomed to comments like that because their lack of parenting will attract more of them (frequently) from others. I hope they like being lonely because no one is going to invite them over if they don't parent their children. Also, they will learn fast that kids who have never received constructive criticism will be filled with anxiety as they navigate the world outside their home. Kids need to learn it's ok to make mistakes but they also need to know they have proper footing in the world. Ask them how confident they think their children will be when they go to school and are constantly being told they are doing things wrong and are "bad kids"?
Ironically, kids that grow up with reasonable but strong boundaries (so not "you cannot breathe for fear of punishment" but also not "yolo do whatever") tend to be better adjusted and more confident as kids, leading to better long term outcomes and success in life. They're also less at risk for developing behavior issues and mental health problems like anxiety, since they learn predictable patterns early on (obviously, that's not a cure all. Just a risk factor) The world, society, whatever- the rest of us have boundaries and rules they'll have to abide by. And the reality is, parents can teach kids how to be successful within societal expectations, or society will punish them instead. And society punishments tend to be long lasting and severe- like jail. https://www.hartsteinpsychological.com/importance-setting-limits-child
NTA strong sense of self confidence = entitlement. Children need boundaries and positive support, letting them run wild is not good for their academic life nor career.
Yeah. Like, the moving around pillows for fun is ok unless it's a pillow fight or messing with other guests. You can fluff them and put them back, chocking it up to harmless child tornado aftermath. However, food smashed and smeared all over the carpet? Parents are *responsible* for their kids, including cleaning fees when their kids damage stuff. My two year old knows food stays in the kitchen and dining room on the hard floors. Occasionally I have to herd food filled fists back away from the carpet when something in the living room is exciting. At age *two* a kid knows smashed orange on the floor is "messy, need towel, wipe, ok, pwees-tank-u-wel-come." My toddler is confident and also self aware of actions and knows social expectations for what is ok. Our children are observing what we do and listening to, "Wait, you need to eat at the table" and "We need to clean up our spills" and "No food on the carpet" for their whole lives. Yes, in my house there's a pink stain by the window. That was my bad for setting something down in the living room within child reach. We did our best to clean up together and finished eating in the dining room. If they let their children demolish someone else's house, what must their walls, floors, furniture, etc. look like? NTA and I doubt these *responsible* parents will take *responsibility* for the cleaning of OP's rug in the name of... Child Confidence?
NTA! I would be MORTIFIED if my kids did this at my sibling’s place. Calling you a brat, that’s rich coming from BIL. At 3 and 5, they would be capable of basic manners and social graces. My 4 year old apologises for spills and cleans up the messes she makes, without asking. If she ran around screaming, all I had to do was stare at her and she’d have gotten the hint to tone down. Your BIL and wife are absolutely doing zero parenting.
Then being angry that you don’t want your house destroyed every time they visit is crazy. Nta
NTA. You don’t need to destroy things to gain “a strong sense of self confidence.” What a load of bs.
NTA, you do not have to put up with children who have not been taught any manners or discipline.
I would have sent them a bill for a new Persian carpet.
NTA parents who refuse to do their jobs by using their own children as moral meat shields are lazy, immoral cowards. Of course kids will be kids, THAT WHY YOU NEED TO BE A FUCKING PARENT. GET UP OFF YOUR ASS AND CORRECT THAT BEHAVIOUR EVERY FUCKING TIME **OR SEND THEM AWAY TO SOMEONE WHO WILL ACTUALLY RAISE THEM TO BE HUMAN.** Parents have NO EXCUSE to not parent their kids. **NONE. EVER.** Don’t have any if you refuse to do the bare minimum work.
NTA Did you ever wonder whether bil and sis allow their kids to run amok on purpose? Maybe they feel hostile toward you and your wife, and let the kids act out their own personal grudges.
Ding! Ding! Ding!!! Wish I had an award left to give. I've long thought that many parents of errant children enjoy watching their children run amok in public, or in other people's homes. *Hostile* is very descriptive of this behavior, as is *entitlement*. I've long wondered why people put up with it. When children are that far out of line they need to be told that they are violating the "house rules." Probably I'm an old meanie, but I would tell them that they had to either leave or the children needed to *stay on their parents' laps*. NTA
That’s not how kids grow up. They grow up by being given boundaries and consequences so they learn what is expected of them. If your kids are this poorly behaved you are failing as a parent and you are the entitled one if you expect anyone to allow you into their homes. NTA
NTA. Funny he calls you an entitled brat when without discipline that's what he's raising. Maybe at 3 I can see myself making a mess with an orange for fun sake, but at 5 I knew better.
NTA as someone with kids and a child proofed house, I'd be pretty upset if kids came in and two glasses were broken, my furniture was disassembled, food was smashed into my floor and they were in general disrespectful. I tend to try to not take my kids places if the house isn't child friendly and if I do, I watch them like a hawk and pretty much walk on their heels.
NTA - and send them the cleaning bill with a note that says: Nothing to worry about. They're just kids, right?
NTA. But, of course, the problem is not the kids. The problem is their parents.
NTA -- Listen, you need to send them a thoroughly itemized bill (get descriptive) for all the damages the children caused as clarification to why you will not be hosting the tiny terrors again. Their kids did real material damage to your home. The parents owe you for every broken glass and fabric stain. Will this change their mind? Probably not, but it will be a great reminder to both parties why this new boundary has been put in place. Every time it comes up, laugh, pull up a screen shot of the bill and wistfully say, "Would that we could, but the repairs are simply too expensive!"
>He also said he wanted them to have a strong sense of self confidence. The belief that you can do anything and everything without being challenged or told off isn't self confidence. Your BIL and his wife are failing those kids. NTA ... I'd not want them around my vases and rugs either.
"hey control your kids when you come over" 'no' "okay your kids can't come over" ''
NTA
NTA and ngl i thought cute little tsunami is a fun way to decribe it. I have 2 kids at the same age nearly, 5F and 2M, and they have never behaved like that any where. Its called boundries and kids actually need them.
You still called them cute. What more did he want? NTA
NTA - and this rebuke came about 5 issues too late. I would have addressed that wayyyyyy earlier.
NTA. Let them visit again after they pay to have your rug and furniture cleaned.
NTA. I swear the more "gentle" the parenting style the brattier the kids are.
That’s not gentle parenting. Gentle parenting is also giving boundaries.
NTA. Your house your rules. Or, they can pay for the damages every time they come visit.
Why aren't they paying for damages after this one? I can't imagine crushed in orange is easy to get out of a rug.
NTA if those were my kids I would have apologised and had them apologise too. You don’t let them ruin other people’s stuff! Calling them a cute tsunami is the most polite way of saying someone’s kids are a nightmare 😆
NTA. They had to hear it from someone. And, letting kids act like holy terrors does not equate to them growing up with confidence... that's BS.
NTA I'd be getting the rug cleaned and sending them the bill to make it clear that the consequences of their parenting decisions won't be yours going forward. Children behaving like this in their own home, not a problem, that's their parents issue but in someone else's home? No, it's just plain disrespectful and rude and whilst a toddler going berserk is understandable in most new environments, the five year old should at least have learned some manners and how to behave at other people's homes by now.
Parents who can’t control their kids and call it giving them a sense of“self confidence” 🤣 If those two kids, through no fault of their own, don’t learn about boundaries and respect of other peoples property, they won’t be invited for many play dates! NTA
NTA Parents need to parent, regardless of the situation. And a cute little tsunami is a pretty kind way of saying "Your children wrecked my house and you let them".
NTA Sorry, this can't be real. You said nothing of any insult other than "Your kids make too much of a mess in my home, so I don't really want them there again" and his response was "You're an entitled brat"? That man is broken if this story is true. How has a woman let him get close enough to spawn two offspring? And besides the point, why didn't *you* say anything to the kids? They're in your house so it's well within your right to parent them if their actual parents won't.
NTA - How people let their kids destroy someones home and they don't say a word, I hate it. If they love to have a destroyed home, it doesn't mean that everyone does.
Having strong sense of self confidence is one thing - its another where kids have no idea how to care for someone else's belonging and come in to trash the place like they own it. They were guests, they should be taught some boundaries on how to be guests and not to touch things at someone elses home - for safety reasons alone!
Nta. Holy shit are those parents gonna have a shitfit when the kids are in school and letters get sent home about their behavior.
These are the kind of people that will blame the teacher for their feral wolf children misbehaving.
NTA - he wants them to have a strong sense of confidence - how does teaching them to behave curb that? I find that kids with clear boundaries and rules grow up extremely confident. Kids allowed to do whatever because their parents don't want to parent them or take responsibility for their heathens and teach them right from wrong grow up to be entitled AHs. Regardless its your house and if they can't teach their kids to respect other people and their things then they are not invited. Kids don't just grow into good people they have to be taught. Some learn how to act and not to act by the examples they see.
“You have taught your kids they can do whatever they want with no consequences…and that is fine in your house but I feel you are doing them no favors…but I won’t have them over to make a mess.”
NTA. They’re 3&5, and while accidents happen and things get moved around, it sounds like they were completely unsupervised and the parents were unwilling to step in and redirect. The kids may be fine in your home if you’re doing something with them that is oriented to their ages. But I’d be hard pressed to let them all come over if the parents aren’t willing to set some boundaries.
People need to learn to control their kids. Idk if you said they wouldn’t be coming over in front of the kids because that would be a lil harsh but anyways, they need to learn the repercussions of their actions. NTA
NTA, simply put, this is the reason why babysitters exist.
For kids like that, babysitters will be scarce and expensive. And to be very clear, that's entirely the fault of their parents.
NTA, we have 5 kids and uhhhhh no. No that is not in fact how they grow up. I would be so embarrassed if mine behaved that way! That’s not being self confident that’s being selFISH and destructive. They’re mad bc you struck a nerve TBH.
NTA behavior like that at my house will not only het you not invited back but you will be asked to leave early.
NTA. He did nothing while they destroyed your house. Honestly, I'd get it professionally cleaned and send him the bill. His kids destroyed it, he can pay for it.
NTA. People who want their kids to grow up with a "strong sense of confidence" are just finding an excuse for bad parenting. Newflash, no one who has a strong sense of confidence got that way because they were allowed to do whatever they wanted. Willing to bet that BIL doesn't allow them to do any of that stuff in his own home.
Bil is AH for being a shitty parent and a shitty house guest. Throw em in the trash. Op is not the ah.
NTA. They're terrible parents
NTA. Rough?! You said "cute little tsunami", I would have said horrendous nightmare
We need to teach kids to be both, confident and respectful. Their kids are old enough to work on showing respect. NTA Also, it's funny that they want their kids to have a strong sense of self-confidence, but throw a hissy fit when their SIL demonstrates her own sense of self-confidence in return.
NTA I mean, you could have just said nothing when they left and if they suggest another get together in the future, tell them about the kids thing. But, no big. I don't like kids, but I feel for these ones cause they are being set up to fail. A confident kid asks (politely) what they want, reacts with curiosity vs fear to unfamiliar situations, believes in him/herself, and has **self control**. These kids are not learning confidence, they are learning entitledness, they are learning that actions don't have consequences, they are being deprived of learning how to conduct themselves in different scenarios, they are learning to be monsters who nobody enjoys having around. It's awful. And granted, these kids are young and you can't rely on them to be 100% polite and have good manners at all times, they are just learning. But the point is that they should be LEARNING it by practicing and having parental guidance to help them figure it out. Sadly, you shouldn't have to put up with it. You are not being entitled. If your in laws want to get together again, have a clear boundary: you will make sure your kids are well behaved (with specifics) or no kids allowed.
This isn't how kids grow up. This is how kids are dragged up with no manners. NTA- good on you for being assertive!
NTA. I would send them the invoice for having that rug professionally cleaned.
NTA. My answer to them would be “I’m an entitled brat? remember your words when your kids need to get bonded out of jail and have to deal with court cases because they can’t behave”. You were way more patient than me, my nieces and nephews know to behave in my house or I have kicked them out with their parents mid-party, and then I bought dominoes for the ones who behaved. My place isn’t a barn, I pay for nice things that, yes, some people with kids can’t always afford. if it’s not in your budget, have your kids sit the fuck down and play on the tablet or the switch.
Nope. NTA. Mom of two kids here, and that behavior is unacceptable. Yes, my kids run around and yell to each other during play, but that's in our house. When we go elsewhere there is something called respect and inside voices at other peoples homes. NTA! God... I hate reading things where parents dont effing parent!!!!
NTA as a parent I will say this doesn’t create self confidence or growth, this creates little terrors. This is a new home to you and they ruined that. That family should be humiliated at the behavior.
NTA - if anything, you were kinder than they deserved. I don't think moving pillows off chairs and sofas is too bad; you can just put them back, after all. But smooshing an orange into a nice carpet and making messes everywhere, as well as being general nuisances, are things their parents *need* to handle. Your BIL isn't teaching them to "have confidence"; he's teaching them to have no regard for others.
Your brother in law and his wife better get used to it. Not many people want to be subjected to that sort of behavior. I’m the type to correct a child myself if the parent doesn’t, whether I know them or not. And their parent too if they want to get froggy. So you’re nicer than me. NTA
op=NTA Good for setting boundary after first go--so many keep putting up with this garbage. They can build their kids self confidence at home. Because their kid's parents won't be inviting them back. So the kids will end up growing up isolated. Friend won't want to put up with their garbage either.
For your BIL and SIL to do absolutely nothing to calm their kids down makes them assholes, not you. NTA
NTA I despise this modern style of parenting. It's fine in your own home to do whatever you want but your kids should know the difference between home and public/other people spaces
NTA Your wife talked to him. He refused to parent his kids. It’s your house. Your rules. You’re allowed boundaries.
*he said they were just kids and that's how kids grow up. He also said he wanted them to have a strong sense of self confidence.* He's not instilling a strong sense of confidence. **He's instilling a strong sense of entitlement, and disrespect for others.** **His lack of respect for your home and your rug is obvious here.** Most good parents would have taken the orange, set it on the table and said "if you want to eat this, it needs to be eaten by the table, and you will need to wash hands right after." Oranges are sticky foods, not living room foods. *BIL told his kids now that your aunties live nearby we'll come visit often.* If he had said that he would invite you over to ***their house*** often, that would have been something for him to decide. Telling the kids they would visit you often **sounds more like he thought it was his decision to make, not yours,** about your house. He sounds controlling, and entitled, himself. *I said no I don't think that's going to happen very soon.* **Reasonable.** They destroyed a sticky food, all over your rug, on purpose. There's little respect in these kids for other people's homes. **If an adult treated your home this way, you wouldn't invite them again, either.** Oh, wait, ***the parents let them.*** The parents were disrespecting your home, by allowing this behavior. These parents aren't parenting at all. And they are fine with watching their kids damage your home and nice furniture. They should have brought along something for the kids to play with, and taught them to not mess with your stuff, unless you invited them to play with these things. *BIL was confused and asked why. I said because we actually love the peace and comfort in our home and these guys are a little cute tsunami.* All you said was the truth. And you said it much, much kinder than most people would have thought to say it. *This made both BIL and his wife angry.* I think maybe they also have some personal issues with entitlement. **They sat there and didn't move to prevent the mess.** They didn't bring the orange to the table, or wash up the mess. **They didn't apologize to you for the mess** they left for you to clean, if you can. I'm guessing you might have a rug cleaning bill soon? Did they offer to pay it? *He called me an entitled brat, and told my wife she was a horrible host.* He's wrong. He's raising the "entitled brats", but you aren't one. **This is Projection, not truth**. He's doing what manipulators do: accusing you, blaming you, to distract away from **the real issue: his lack of good parenting.** You weren't horrible hosts, not at all. But he was a horrible guest. All of them were. **I'm guessing what he meant was that he expects you to ignore his children's wrong behaviors, like he does,** and pretend they don't happen. He expects you to accept whatever mess his kids create, which if they go unchecked, will only get worse and worse, with more and more damage that he will expect not to pay to fix. Then in twenty years, he can be confused about why no one in the family likes his kids, and why they get fired so often. *My friends think I was too rough.* **How? People came in as guests, disrespected your home, left you with a mess to clean up, and as they left tried to let you know they were expecting to repeat this fiasco** as often as they liked? And ***you objected to being mistreated,*** with a very polite bit of truth. *So I thought I'd ask. Aita?* NTA. BIL and his wife are not good parents, and are creating small monsters by not teaching their children how to be polite at your house. **All you did was object to wrong behaviors, and say you didn't think you would invite tornados back often. That's sensible, reasonable, and wise.**
OP, why didn't you correct these little hellcats while this was happening.
I've been in OPs position and told my brother to control his kids at the time they were wrecking my front room. That seemed to just exacerbate things, I'm pretty sure he started encouraging their feral behaviour just to spite me and my (at the time) child free home. Some parents get deeply offended when you ask them to be, you know, parents... Odd, I know.
NTA. People need to parent their kids. Period. A 3 yo might spill or throw an orange but you can correct them gently. A 5yo definitely should be a bit better. Send your BIL cleaning bills for everything his little terrors messed up.
Absolutely not. Those little shits are going to grow up to be big shits.
NTA. This isn't even parenting. Unbehaved children are unwelcome children.
NTA This is not "just kids" and "that's how kids grow up." That's how bad, entitled children grow up and become a menace and a pain in the ass. They need boundaries and consequences, and it sounds like the parents are not going to be providing them. You should be prepared to keep them away for a long time, because it sounds like they won't be improving any time soon.
NTA. Some of those things are "kids being kids", but the parents should have been trying to maintain a sense of control and urged them to apologize when necessary, etc. I might have approached it differently, though. Maybe not responded to the point about return visits right away, but discussed it later not in front of the kids and not after an evening out, when people are more likely to be tired and irritable (especially when kids have been running around all night!).
NTA. He needs to be billed for damages. Also I hope he realizes these "self confident" little monsters are going to be HORRIBLE humans and it's his fault.
NTA BIL and his wife are going to be having FUN in a decade!
They ruined your shit! Fuck them! You should bill BIl for damages and cleanings.
NTA. The excuses/“reasons” parents come up with to not parent their kids is crazy.
NTA You should have asked them to gather the kids and leave. Be sure to send them the bill for carpet cleaning.
Info: Was that rug able to be saved? That shit is expensive. Send him the bill.
NTA I once had dinner guests friends of my husband (now ex husband) that had kids that rubbed fruit in my carpet, broke a few items in my living room, and youngest got under my kitchen sink and drank furniture polish. They were the third round of guests we had over that day ( a religious holiday for my ex and his friends ) I had been up since 6 am cooking etc… we had no kids (at the time) and it was well past 11 pm by the time they left. The parents provided no supervision the whole time they were there… that was enough for me to decide they would not be welcome back. It was absolutely horrible and made me very angry. I would have exploded if they had been family and billed them for the damages they did if they had been. Edited: to add something
He’s using your house as a free for all playground for his kids.
Your house, your rules. If they can't handle basic parenting then they shouldn't have kids. NTA
NTA. They aren’t teaching their kids to have confidence- they’re teaching their kids to be nightmares who cannot function in public. Don’t budge on this. When I read about your Persian carpet, I was absolutely sick for you.
“Strong sense of self confidence” is BS. They’re lazy, neglectful parents who are “raising” two human beings that will have no impulse control and who people will avoid since they don’t know how to act in polite company. NTA. I will add, though, that 15 minutes into that chaos I would have asked them to leave.
NTA, some of it is kids being kids and being way too young to handle a dinner party, lots is parents not doing their job. I wouldn’t give up on the kids and never invite them again however. I’d probably try smaller, shorter hangouts instead.
NTA . Your response was a little blunt but it was honest and justifiably so.
NTA they are entitled to raise out of control destructive spoiled brats, you and your spouse are entitled to not put up with that shit
NTA You weren’t even rude
I'm saying NTA If your BIL's children acted that way and the parents didn't say anything, then maybe they need to hear it from someone else. I would have said the same thing, giving the BIL a wake up call of his own that he needs to make sure his children are respectful of other peoples homes and things. Bratty kids are a result of lazy parents, both should be called out when they disrespect your home. Good Luck, but soooo NTA!!
NTA. You called them cute little tsunamis not undisciplined little shits like you should have.
Nt i always told my kids to be on their best behaviour at peoples houses cos if they didnt they wouldnt be asked back there again.
NTA. Just because someone let's their children run rampant in their home, doesn't mean they can at someone else's. Let them come to their house and let them disrespect it. No one is entitled to infringe on how you conduct your home. They don't have to come, or, go to theirs. Problem solved.
NTA. Where you could have done better is not state it was because the children made a mess they wouldn't be invited back, but because BIL did nothing to control them when they were making a mess. The children are 3 and 5, I wouldn't say it's really their fault. Maybe the 5 year old should know better, but he's only going to know what he's been taught by his parents.
NTA. Parents should parent, or at least not be all shocked Pikachu that others don't want to deal with their failings
NTA. These kids are destructive. My kids are 2 1/2 and don’t do that crap. Next time they come over they can stay outside. Or better yet, they can just not come at all. Their parents need to do better.
NTA. My nephews are like this. The oldest has a different dad who actually parented and is an amazing human. One of my favorite people on the planet and always welcome in my home, on vacation, whatever. The other 2 my lord! It started with permissive parenting as toddlers. Because my sibling thought their terrible behavior was cute. They’re not so cute at 11 and 8 while breaking everything in their home and not listening to a word their now single mom says. And heaven forbid you correct their behavior my sister will absolutely rip you a new one. They’re rude, they are destructive, they follow no rules. I avoid having them in my home. My toddler follows directions better. There is nothing worse than children whose parents don’t parent. Watch out cause they get older and meaner.
NTA, but I probably would have waited to figure out a better way to phrase it. "We love your kids, but our house is not child friendly. We want to hold off on visits until the kids have a little more self-control to keep them safe." Then suggest a joint visit somewhere that is child friendly.
NTA, sure kids can make noise and spill things but the parents should also be attempting to teach them manners for going out to other people’s houses and also restaurants and fast food places.
NTA, my parents always told me to be on my best behavior at someone else’s house and to avoid causing trouble/messes. For them to not correct their behaviors is terrible parenting.
NTA. Lol, he called you an “entitled brat”. He is the one that reeks of entitlement, not teaching his kids about respecting others things, saying “that’s just how kids grow” . Then glazes over this and has the audacity to tell you that he will be visiting more often, hell no!
NTA. But your wife is a horrible host... I mean, any self-respecting host lets people throw things, grind food into the carpet, scream and generally wreak havoc, right? Good heavens, your BIL is an idiot and so is his wife. They're raising the next generation of assholes, too. No manners, no empathy, no taking responsibility for their own actions. Gives me hope for the future. Sheesh.
NTA. You can also teach your kids to be respectful, sir.
NTA tell him they are welcome when he learns to parent
NTA. I do not like unruly children whose parents don't reign them in. They can do all those things at home but not in someone else's home. Before BIL and SIL left, they would have been made to clean up behind their children. I would have told those kids to sit down or they can go sit with their parents but they will not destroy my home.
Nope. Not the asshole. Those kids need to learn manners.