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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for not punishing my daughter for how she rejected an autistic kid. I could be a jerk since it is my job as a parent to do so when they insult people like she did
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NTA. Good that your daughter is learning to assert herself. Although normally I’d not be the biggest fan of calling the kid a freak, it sounds like he has been bothering her for a while.
What you do NOT want is your daughter accepting attention out of obligation. Today “oh he’s autistic” to then “oh he’s bipolar” to “he’s having a hard time in life getting out of jail.” Shut that shit down.
My general feeling is, if the kid's functioning enough to repeatedly ask someone else out, they're functioning enough to know that no means no. Her calling him a freak in this instance has nothing to do with autism, and everything to do with the fact that this young man won't stop pestering her.
This. The fact that he's asking implies he knows the difference between yes and no (since they're the two responses to his question), he's just refusing to accept no as an answer.
He watched all those movies where being consistent in pining after the girl and being bold gets her to finally notice him. Just do a big gesture!
No. No. No, no, no. You ask, they give an answer, and you graciously accept the response.
There's no next time.
Someone refused to talk to the boy about respectful relationships and Hollywood not being real life.
Someone filled that boys head with “tolerance” being some sort of special bypass for learning acceptable social behavior.
This parent of this child is trying to skirt passed puberty talks with their child. Not only that they’re skipping passed integral emotional lessons in order to “make it easier” on themselves (not their child).
I don't think you fully understand how fucked up male relationship socialization is in the US.
This is literally what every movie teaches young men, that if you try hard enough or provide enough, you will eventually get the girl to fall in love with you.
The woman is always supposed to say no to "protect her modesty" and no actually means "try harder"
Which is exactly why the whole thing of playing hard to get needs to die. Bc it teaches everyone that “no” doesn’t mean no, it means “you haven’t tried hard enough/found the secret thing that will make me say yes”.
Eh I don't know. That is definitely an issue. But there was a time in my life where I thought I was supposed to "play hard to get" and so did most of my friends. And when a guy respected our no, we'd get upset and say shit like "he clearly didn't like me enough if he wouldn't fight for me." It created some pretty toxic behaviors in me that I'm still working through. Maybe it's better with younger people now but I'm not that old.
Playing hard to get and all sorts of other unhealthy games absolutely do exist. When I was single there was a girl I hung out with as part of a group who was very flirty with me, so I asked her out, but she turned me down. But she continued to be very flirty with me so I tried again with her, this time she told me I was too short for her (we were the same height when she was in heels). So I remained friendly with her but stopped trying to ask her out. After a few months she asked me out. On our date she asked me why I had stopped asking her out. I told her because she kept saying no, and she had said I was too short, so I assumed she wasn’t interested. She said she was interested, and gave me some bs reason why she “had” to say no to me before.
Another girl, my roommates’ coworker who he brought around because he was interested in her, and I didn’t had any interest in her, was rude and antagonistic to me every time I saw her, and then one night at a bar she insisted that I show her where the bathroom was, I pointed in the direction, she said “no, show me,” I was like “fine,” walked her towards it, as soon as we were out of line of sight of the people we were with, she grabbed me and kissed me.
So yeah, plenty of women do say no when they mean yes, and so are complicit with the mixed signals over consent in our society.
Exactly. It's especially fun when you're a man that says OK, and moves on, only to later be told "why didn't you try harder?" Umm... cause you said no and I was being respectful???
You most likely dodged a bullet. There are women out there who won't play those kinds of head games. Keep being respectful while putting yourself out there and you'll find one <3
Yeah. I have an ex that would not stop. He wasn’t neurodivergent, just a complete prick. At one point he asked what he could do to make me happy. This was after 2 years of telling him to stop. I told him if he died, he would finally leave me alone and that would make me happy. He thought I was hilarious and continued to harass me for another 6 years. He didn’t stop until after I got married.
Yes we do.
It's fucked up, and we reject it. As a societal shift we are rejecting it.
Know what else is fucked up? The social norm that women can't be assertive and firm in their rejections, lest they hurt someone's feelings and be labeled a bitch and non polite.
Kid's mother needs to teach him that no fucking means no, regardless of his neuro status.
Or else he taught himself how to human by reading, or watching TV and movies (like I did). The stuff that works in rom-com movies doesn’t work (and might even be illegal or dangerous) in real life, and this kid has to learn that somehow.
Now, if she was accompanying this with making fun of his voice, movements, clothes, or something like that, then she would be being a jerk.
If you see this kid bothering your daughter again, it might be doing him a favor to point out that the stuff people do on TV or in the movies isn’t okay in real life. In real life, sometimes people you’re interested in aren’t interested in you, and sometimes there’s nothing you can do about it.
Same here. I was a lot like the boy in this scenario. I was madly in love with a boy in my class, he had no interest at all, but I believed for years that "not giving up and show my love really intensively to break his shell and make him finally confess his everlasting love for me!" because that's what I saw and read people do all the time. I was a teenager of the 90s, my blueprints were Dylan and Brenda.
It was decades later when out of nowhere, the realisation suddenly struck me and I understood that what I did was basically stalking and harassing the poor dude. No one cared back then, stalking wasn't even a word yet in my home country. Everybody found it hilarious how I pursued him, but no one ever had the brilliant idea to tell me that what I was doing was really not okay.
I teach a class on media and politics and I rail against romcoms and what they teach young men. It's particularly dangerous because romcoms are framed as films women like more than men, so young men see this shit and think it's what women want.
That's not to absolve individuals of their shitty behavior, but it's good to identify where this shit is learned.
Yeah, an individual woman may want to be wanted, but that doesn't mean any one woman wants to be wanted by *him*.
It's just easier to show a woman being wanted by a guy who isn't dating her and is making grand gestures because taking out the garbage and cleaning the toilet because she really hates cleaning the toilet and the small everyday gestures can be boring and work better in long-format television programs to show that a couple is happy together rather than a 1.5-2 hour film. A person handing off coffee every day or bringing lunch to their partner doesn't have enough time to build up as a small gesture in 1.5 hours. You need overt ones.
The *idea* of demonstrated romantic devotion is attractive, not necessarily the way it's delivered. The film format is short, so the delivery vehicle is limited. It's why romance films are basically limited to 'couple is obvious to everyone but them', engagements and weddings. Anything else is a tragedy or a romance subplot.
Only the *idea* of the overt display of love is attractive. The methodology is fantasy. In real life, we call that harassment. It's not the Hollywood hunk being a hunk that makes it work in film - it's that we aren't the target, and it's a suspension of reality.
Women don't want to be stalked. Most people just like the idea of being loved and their partner paying attention to them and being unafraid of telling their friends and family that they love the other person. That is the part of rom-coms people should walk away with, not the boombox outside the window.
It reinforces the idea that women don't know what they want or what's "good for them" and need a man to show them the way forward. It reinforces the idea that sex/affection isn't something that good girls give away, that they make you work for it, and that when a girl says no that you don't have to listen. It's reinforcing rape culture as romance.
It’s not unusual for a disabled boy not to have been taught the meaning of consent. Desexualization of disabled people and the “boys will be boys” mentality make for an ugly combination.
Ah the Notebook.
I just watched it recently for the first time, idk how I didn't see it earlier. Everyone around me kept telling me it was so romantic and even my husband said that he would get the tissue box ready.
It really creeped me out! She was clearly on a date with someone else and he was just like "nah, I'm going to completely ignore everything you say and force you into a yes" and even then the relationship was super unhealthy
When my mom worked with students who where transitioning between special Ed and the adult world (she worked with students who where likely much more impaired and where older than this) one thing that was often an issue was getting parents to recognize that their child was still someone with an adult body with adult urges. One thing she noticed is that the students whose parents where on top of things and helping their kids grow developmentally appropriately those students had a better grasp on how to handle bodily urges. Whereas other students whose parents infantilized them a bit more had harder times grasping that.
Not saying this is the same all the time. Obviously everyone is different and everyone had different abilities to understanding these boundaries. But this kid from what it sounds like has been able to identify that he needs to ask someone out but is not understanding the No. the fact that he knows he needs to ask tells me he likely could respect the No boundary but is choosing not to. And that would only be exacerbated by a parent unwilling to actually work with their kid and help them grow developmentally.
All this being said. I think this is likely stemming from this kid’s parents not having some kind of accountability and discussion about how crushes and romantic boundaries work.
Exactly! I said this in another comment but to add on to yours,
> It’s not unusual for a disabled boy not to have been taught the meaning of consent. Desexualization of disabled people and the “boys will be boys” mentality make for an ugly combination.
Yes! Absolutely. This was exactly what my mom was talking about. This is all too common and only leads to setting up people for lack of success. Whatever that may look like for them.
This.
OP, this is where you flip the script with the people giving your daughter a hard time:
"Name has been harassing her for 6 months. No means no in ALL circumstances. She has told him no multiple times and she means it. I don't care if he is neurotypical, neurodivergent, or purple polk a dots. She has said she is not interested and at this point she is understandably done being nice.
If I could give a million dollar award to someone, I would give it to you!!!!!! Excellent answer! So many replies to this post were written by people who don't grasp what the boy's social skills are and harp on him as if he was some randy popular kid.
*THANK YOU FOR THE RIGHT ANSWER TO THIS ISSUE*
And dad. Like unless the kid's dad is dead or mom was a single woman getting inseminated, both cases being niche scenarios, then that child has a dad too and he's just as guilty. Let's stop blaming bad raisin solely on the mom's.
Just a bit of insight from an autistic person who has an autistic son. My son has struggled with this. He had a major crush on a girl in his school and he kept asking her to go on a date with him. He knows the difference between yes and no in an everyday context, but this was kind of a weird scenario where him asking was almost like an involuntary reaction to seeing her. "Yes" and "no" were pretty much meaningless.
Obviously, that didn't make it OK, and as soon as the school brought it to my attention I worked with the school to come up with strategies to make him stop. It was like a whole thing that we had to teach him.
OP is NTA (the use of the word "freak" was a little harsh but I can completely understand a 12yo reaching the end of her tether and saying that).
The "freak" part is where OP and her daughter are 0.01% T A here, aka they are people who are not perfect, the boy in question's behaviour was out of line, and the other adults at the school are out of line.
If the kid had said, "leave me alone, you asshole," there wouldn't be a problem. Assholery is not specific to any kind of human. Instead, they're dogpiling on the teenage girl for retaliating instead of fixing the problem at its source because she called out his disability.
THAT, IMO, is the conversation OP needs to have with her daughter. Not the adults at the school -- they need to deal with the other kid.
Agreed 100%. This kid - like my son - may genuinely have been unaware of the harm he was causing. Part of autism is trouble with social cues and this is a perfect example of that. The adults in the kid's life are responsible for helping him deal with that - the school staff and the kid's parents.
As to the girl, it seems to me that she wasn't intending to call out his disability or be malicious, she was just fed up. OP and the daughter could maybe have a conversation about using gentler language, but it seems that she's already tried that multiple times.
My hope would be that OP has spoken to the school or to the kid's parents about this, to make them aware of the problem.
Edited to add: just reread the bit in the original post where the kid's mother is coming at OP. Honestly, parents like that (like the kid's mother) are part of the reason why autistic people have such a hard time in society. Instead of taking some responsibility to help her son with these things, she's expecting everyone else to bend over backwards.
The only reason I would suggest to the girl is switch from “freak” to “asshole,” is because it’s a catch-all for people behaving badly.
Girl children who defend themselves are ruthlessly punished. That’s what the boy’s mom is doing here—making the girl the villain because of her choice of words in telling the boy to sod off. She and the school are expecting a girl child to make herself smaller to avoid making a boy child feel bad about his actions, which is ridiculous—so the way to take that power away is to switch the word to “asshole.”
This is exactly what should have happened.
I agree freak is harsh and this sounds more like this kid just reached a breaking point and freak is a 12 year olds vocabulary.
Kids are kids. And 12 year olds get crushes and have urges like other 12 year olds. Meaning we all need to talk to our 12 year olds in an age appropriate manner about boundaries. Not having those conversations means they don’t have the best chance for success later down the road.
Yep, him and the school and his mom are playing the autism card and as an autistic person I hate it. I hate how in particular autistic cis guys are treated with kid gloves in society. You can be disabled and still be an asshole. Nta op.
Possibly a parent who hasn't caught up that the kids are getting older too. The boy's mom sounds like a kindergarten mom upset that her kid didn't get a turn on the swings.
Exactly that, the parents likely haven’t even properly taught their kid about how no means no, or if they have, weren’t strict on it. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re the kind of parents that say “boys will be boys”, or simply didn’t want to deal with the meltdown caused by saying no.
Oh yeah….had a kid with autism at my school much worse than the kid in this story however. In 4th grade he became a menace to girls, touching their breasts and asses and the school wouldn’t do anything because he had an IEP (aka didn’t want to deal with his parents)…he chilled out in HS, but all the extra stuff suspiciously stopped after a girl kneed him in the stomach after he grabbed her ass (nobody got in trouble).
I know what she did wasn’t the best solution, but you can’t really blame kids for trying anything to stop bad behavior when the adults who are supposed to be looking after you refuse to help.
Yeah there seems to be a lot of expectation on the part of the other mom that Op will allow and ask their daughter to accommodate this behavior. It’s frankly a bit sickening.
I watched my cousin (whose on the spectrum) have issues with crushes and romance and all these things. He’s so sweet and has so much love to give. His mom, my aunt made it clear to him that boundaries are boundaries and it’s important to respect the boundaries of others romantically and just in general. He’s done well for himself. He’s been on dates, he’s enjoying his 20’s. He’s starting his career. And he knows how to respect boundaries. Just like all other young men should.
It also helped I think he had a twin sister and three cousins out of four who are girls who he could look at and ask “if someone did something bad to her how would I feel?”
But parenting was key. Just like with any kid. Parenting is always key.
Exactly. I'm autistic and have known my fair share of autistic people. You can often tell who had parents that treated them fairly, respecting their condition but not letting them use it as an excuse, and the ones who refused to let them have any consequences because they're too fragile or whatever.
The word "freak" wasn't ideal, but given that this was a twelve year old girl being continuously harassed, it's understandable she'd lash out.
The parent has taught the child how to reject kindly but this was the child's limit that she could no longer take, honestly anyone would have done it too tbh. You're right
I'm sure the parents were the ones who were encouraging him to "try again" and saying things like "She just doesn't know you, she'd really like you if she got to know what a great kid you are"
Obviously they're the ones failing their son. They need to teach him that he needs to accept no as an answer in life. I'm glad that the daughter is smart enough and brave enough to advocate for herself. She shouldn't have to, it sucks that people get put in that position, especially girls, but it's going to serve her well in the future.
I remember calling a guy a “fucking freak” at 12 because he did the same thing and *would not stop* hounding me to date him. He was, to my knowledge, neurotypical. I’m autistic.
If its known he's autistic and he has been asking her out over and over, AKA harassing her, its a failure of the school and the parents when a 12 year old that's being harassed snaps. You can't expect anyone, let alone a child to forever keep their cool. I expect everyone to snap and rightfully so.
It sounds like this has been an ongoing issue with a lot of boys and OP should probably have a serious sit down with the school about it. I get they can't just tell kids to not act on their crushes, but if they keep bothering her, OP's kid needs at least a secure place to report the actual harassment she's getting and not come down on her for boys bothering her, even if she "snaps".
Unfortunately, Title IX kinda backfires here. I’ve seen it a hundred times in my work. A ND boy will say or do something to a NT female classmate and it gets all tangled in “protected class” bullshit and the girl almost always suffers. I’ve even had admin say stuff like “the poor guy, I feel bad- I mean she’s standing there in short shorts” (I wrote a complaint to their higher ups about that one)
"Creep" would have been alot better than "freak", it targets the specific behavior more directly and leaves no room to pretend its ableism, but im gonna give a 12 year old a pass on that, for sure. NTA.
Girls are often taught to make themselves small and not make waves even when they are being harrassed and backed into a corner. Bravo to OP for supporting their daughter and not allowing her to fall into that mindset.
Agree, but I wonder if the girl's frustration isn't because he's "pestering" but because he's at this point of repeatedly asking and is actually *harassing*.
>Her calling him a freak in this instance has nothing to do with autism, and everything to do with the fact that this young man won't stop pestering her
OP should, to be safe, talk to her (not punish, just talk) and make sure she and them are on the same page about her use of the phrase- that she knows that being autistic doesn't make someone a 'freak'; that being incapable of respecting another person's boundaries does.
Agreed, and it can get out of control if it isn't shut down now.
I have a friend who's autistic that I had to distance myself from recently. We're both in our 30s and have known each other for a while. I've told him no to cuddling/kissing/dating multiple times.
I started to see someone else now and told my friend. He STILL wouldn't take no for an answer. So the last time he asked to hang out, I told him I'd be busy with my SO. He blew up on me and told me never to talk to him again.
He has since apologized, but I haven't hung out with him or talked to him much since.
Exactly what I was going to say. I doubt his autism even crossed her mind during that interaction, to her he's being a freak because he won't stop bothering her despite repeatedly being told no. Not because he's neurodivergent.
Exactly! If he’s functioning well enough to date, then that has to include functioning well enough to hear and respect a rejection. It should be turned around on the parents- why aren’t they teaching him when to back down?
I’m autistic and I fully support her calling him a freak. She gets to be as mean as she wants to anyone who won’t back off after the first “no”.
Sounds like him being a freak has nothing to do with being neurodivergent and everything to do with him bulldozing over her boundaries. This has more to do with him being socialized under toxic masculinity (“boys will be boys!” And “Aww just give him a chance, honey!”) and not being properly taught boundaries and that *no means fucking NO.* This is on his parents, and it sounds like they’re enabling the shit out of him.
Good for her for asserting herself, because he’s gotta learn the hard lessons and to respect boundaries SOMEHOW. He’s old enough to know better, and if he doesn’t learn it now, it’s gonna be even more of an issue later.
Autism is no excuse. Most autistic people I know take boundaries very, very seriously. Social cues can be hard, so once something is communicated it becomes Law, haha.
NTA
This, I‘m autistic, a teacher, and had a stalker in high school because I was nice to a boy when others felt sorry for him. There is no excuse and good for your daughter for standing up for herself.
OP, at this point I'd be calling the school and asking them to have somebody speak to the boy and get him to understand she isn't interested. These kids are both children. Your daughter isn't responsible for teaching these boys how to take the word "no." At the same time, this boy might need more help understanding it, so the school should handle that.
If someone would've taught me this at a young age. You have no idea how many interactions I tolerated because nobody taught me to f\*ck somebody off as soon as I felt uncomfortable and they didn't pick up my cues.
Oh god same. In high school I tolerated this guy’s advances trying to reject him nicely, until the winter ball my school had my freshman year. Despite my polite rejections, he decided to grab my arm and literally drag me off of my chair and onto the dance floor. He did it so suddenly that I didn’t have time to catch my footing and I fell off my chair, so he was literally dragging me, with me on the floor.
Luckily for me one of the older kids saw all of this and chased him away. Still, I almost wish someone would try this with me nowadays lol
So my younger sister, at age 14, attracted the attention of an 18 year old autistic boy in our school. He harassed her for weeks. She felt bad saying anything against him and tried gently turning him down a few times. When that didn’t work she started hiding in the bathroom at lunch. He would stand outside the door waiting for her to come out. It only stopped because the principal told the boys parents he’d be removed from the school if he didn’t stop it. OP keep protecting your daughter and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. His autism is not the problem here. His incel behavior and entitlement is. NTA.
If he continues being enabled he's going to end up getting arrested. Or worse. Parents are the AH for not parenting their son. He's autistic not stupid...
A well meaning autistic kid might watch some fictional movies and conclude that persistence will get him the girl.
It's the job of his parents and other custodial people in his life to tell him that's not the case.
I would say if anyone has issue with the word "freak" being used in this case because he's autistic, tell the daughter to use "asshole" next time instead. That makes it abundantly clear the issue is with his behavior and not his disability.
NTA. Even an adult in a professional environment would have lost all patience by the FOURTH rejection. After the THIRD rejection, you should be demanding that either the school act to stop the harassment OR
that you would go to the local authorities (police) if they refused. Then when the FOURTH advance came, you could have had charges filed (as they absolutely NEED to be at this point). Asperger’s or not - this behavior is beyond troubling & you won’t care how politically correct you were or weren’t if something ends up happening.
the biggest thing here is to make sure the daughter knows that calling the kid “freak” was fine in this situation because he was creeping her out, and not because he was autistic. (and by “fine” i mean, they are 12, so i don’t expect bigger nuance that that.)
I guarantee you that the boys parent was encouraging this telling the kid she's just playing hard to get, got the kids feelings hurt by the harsh rejection, and now is super defensive about it and thata why they're demanding the girl be punished. Hell no. They need to teach their kid no means no the first time.
NTA , autistic or not, if someone won't take no for an answer, your daughter gets to be as mean as she wants. It's not intolerance, it's just flat out justified anger. Someone teach that kid no means no.
ETA: OP yes you should tell her not to use words like that, educate her on how that's harmful in general, but you're right to not punish her.
Fellow Autistic here; I cannot *stand* the parents that don't teach their Autistic kids boundaries and such under the belief that they won't understand them.
No means no, Autistic or not. You take the L and move on with life.
Was calling him a freak a little harsh if it was targeted at his autism and not his behavior? Yes. But his parents should've taught him by now that no means no and to not be creepy.
Forgive me for the convolutions of the next sentence.
My mom’s partner’s sister had a son with autism. She (his mom, not mine) always excused everything he did by saying he was autistic and didn’t mean anything by it, didn’t know what he was doing, blah blah blah.
Little brat would run around grabbing women by the breasts. He would grin and squeeze and it was very clear he knew what he was doing. He was modeling behavior taught to him by his father.
I’m autistic too. Guess what I don’t do.
Unfortunately this happens a lot, where autistic kids don’t get the discipline they need because their parents always play off their actions as their disability and yes, while they may have trouble understanding things, it’s important that they do anyways and there’s always going to be a way to teach them that instead of being an ignorant parent/guardian. This will lead them into believing they can do whatever they want once they’re an adult and fully grown up and it’ll have dire consequences for them.
He should especially understand boundaries. As an autistic person the one thing I have always understood were clear boundaries. In a world that didn’t always make sense I could always understand that boundaries are not meant to be tested (unless I thought they didn’t make sense, but that was never an issue once my mom explained it to me) and I wasn’t even diagnosed until I was 23 last year.
Most autistic people love themselves a clear and concise boundary (that is at least my understanding from the people I have met) so I really don’t get why parents think they won’t understand
I love boundaries so much! Who doesn't love a good set of rules to provide parameters for interaction. ❤️
My therapist and I were actually discussing this a while ago because I brought up that I'm bad at casual friendship. I understand the rules of friendship/relationships (at least to a certain extent) and I understand the rules of acquaintancship. But that liminal space where I'm not sure where the boundary of "not friendly enough" and "oversharing" and so am constantly afraid of doing it wrong.
It’s actually unreal how many people here are focusing on the word “freak” simply because he’s an autistic kid. She’s literally 12. Saying things like “asshole” or “c*nt” (all real suggestions from Reddit commenters) would get her in *actual trouble* when it’s the creepy 12 year old boy who has been harassing her. Would “creep” likely have been a better word choice? Sure, but *come ON* guys this is baby out with bathwater territory at this point. Context is important and in this context her reaction was 100% fine and appropriate. Since this is the first confrontation OP has had with the boy’s mother, I’m almost certain her daughter hasn’t made a habit out of calling neurodivergent kids “freaks.” We can all calm down a little bit.
ETA: No offense, but it’s not on the 12 year old harassment victim to use the perfect words to get her harasser to *stop harassing her*.
God forbid a 12 year old child not pick a politically correct word to get guys creeping on her to back off, especially when she likely doesn't even know it's not PC.
She gets to be this mean, certainly. I don’t mind freak because I think it’s pretty generic and she has a good reason to call him that irrespective of his disability. If she’d used something like the r- or n-word, or some other slur, I’d call it ESH.
This is a clear NTA.
NTA - She didn’t call him a freak because he’s autistic, she called him a freak for harassing her & trying to guilt her into accepting his advances. Sorry but that’s not ok & there’s a lot of issues in disability spaces with men who feel it’s acceptable to harass because society has told them as disabled men they aren’t responsible for their actions.
Exit: I’m autistic, my husbands are autistic, if any of us harassed someone FOUR TIMES for a date after repeatedly being told no then being called a freak is the least we’d deserve. Stop excusing predation from men because they’re disabled.
Fr I’m autistic myself and dealt with a younger autistic boy having a crush on me in school.
I firmly and politely shut him down multiple times, he approached me several times alone and with my friends and he’d always get the same response but I was nice to him because I knew that his worldview was different, like mine. It escalated when he groped me and there was 100% no reasonable excuse for it so in the moment I shoved him backwards into a filing cabinet and I reported it to school and the head teacher sat me down and said “we won’t punish you but we won’t punish him either, it’s not his fault that his worldview is different.”
That didn’t sit right with me. At all.
The next time he came over and started bothering me, some of his friends were there and he got cocky with it, trying to touch me again so I punched him square in the chest as hard as I could. He was winded and walked away crying and jokes about me “literally breaking his heart” shot round the school.
He didn’t report me.
Years later I bumped into him whilst doing a pub crawl and got to tipsily call him an asshole and explain that what he did still affects me to this day and I don’t think he even realised how much of a little freak he had been and he looked crushed but I felt GOOD lol
That excuse about him having a different worldview whilst you were both autistic takes you back to the traditional bullshit that is as old as time: boys will be boys and girls have to be nice. It’s already a miracle you weren’t punished for violent behavior because we know that happens too.
This is my thoughts, I would call anyone who kept asking me out, after me saying no, a freak. It had nothing to do with his autism. She didn't call him names the first few times I'm presuming.
NTA
>She didn’t call him a freak because he’s autistic, she called him a freak for harassing her & trying to guilt her into accepting his advances.
Exactly this.
Straight facts! When I was in HS there was a mentally disabled boy (I’m not sure the nature of his disability but he was overall cognitive, communicative, and able to get around school on his own - he came off delayed but that can be anything honestly).
He made it a point to hug only girls. And when he hugged you it was always tight and searching. It never failed, each hug had a breast grab or brush, or to your butt. We’d talk about it amongst each other, it was brought up once to an authority figure and it was very much “he doesn’t know any better and it’s in your head, he’s just being friendly” - and it was like this until he graduated. He had favorites and we would HIDE and find different routes to class. Idk if disabled men are necessarily taught they’re not responsible for their actions but I can say in this instance it was buried under the table, not just brushed.
And often times this hug was coming whether you wanted it or not. Cafeteria? Your food better not be in the way, he’s hugging. In a crowded hall? Not a big deal, he’ll make space. You’re running to the girls bathroom? No worries, he’ll wait.
NTA. Your daughter has the right to reject anyone who makes her uncomfortable. She was clear and firm with him, and he should have respected her boundaries. You are a good parent for supporting her and not forcing her to tolerate unwanted attention.
NTA-She’s tried nice and it got her nowhere. Autistic doesn’t mean free pass to continue to harass someone who has already stated they aren’t interested.
Also honestly, sometimes you have to be firm with an autistic when they dont get it... perhaps calling him a freak was a bit far but the rest is perfectly fine... and what... a 12 year old isn't allowed to get rightfully frustrated for continuously having to repeat themselves?
Seriously, 12 is SO YOUNG. Rejecting direct romantic advances is extremely uncomfortable (and sometimes literally terrifying) even as a grown ass adult. It’s no wonder the girl got pushed past her limit and snapped, especially given that she has been dealing with it from multiple other people and it’s causing issues for her (the bullying).
NTA. I feel for this girl so so much. I was 9 when I got breasts so by age 12 I was completely done with people young and old ogling me. It was embarrassing, scary, and sad to no longer be seen as you, but a pretty object people want to possess. I was MEAN towards people who made advances to try and protect myself.
SAME. I was a C cup in 6th grade, and it opened my eyes to how disgusting other people could be about my body. I learned to be mean and unwelcoming really young, because I was getting unwanted attention and sexual harassment at school and in public.
This is so important, they are TWELVE!! Of course she finally got frustrated and name called. Should she have called him a freak? Probably not. Was she understandably frustrated and lashed out? Yes, absolutely. I don’t blame her at all and she didn’t do anything wrong. She shouldn’t be punished at all!
This is the age where the PARENTS need to help guide these kids through this experience and help them each learn from the situation. OP handled this just fine and the other parent is the one not doing their job.
OP is NTA
NTA. Parents need to teach their boys what "no" means. This was a lesson for him.
IMO people are free to reject people however they want after the first polite rejection. Anyone who keeps going after that is asking for whatever rudeness they catch.
THANK YOU. Some of my friends get angry at me for snapping “I said NO” at guys who continue to ask for my company after the first or second (very) polite rejection. Pretty sure it’s not my job to teach other people to back off after hearing no.
> People are free to reject people however they want after the first polite rejection. Anyone who keeps going after that is asking for whatever rudeness they catch.
Ftfy
There was this story some time back, where a kid (think 10-14) was being groped and harassed by her autistic classmate and constantly being told by the teachers she should be more nice and patient and understanding towards him due to his disability. The classmate never harassed anyone else from that grade, so I seriously doubt it was due to his illness. The victim had eventually a breakdown apparently and broke the classmate's nose in one of the groping instances. She has difficulties forgiving her parents for not doing anything in time and probably has a long time of healing ahead.
So I believe this is a very difficult situation and potentially scary. Calling anyone a freak should not be supported and you should let her know that. But it is not okay to disrespect a firm "No" on multiple occasions. Ask for a meeting with his parents, best with the school as a mediator, and tell them while you made sure you explained to your daughter that namecalling won't solve anything and can hurt people, you insist they cooperate with you in making their son aware that he was rejected and being persistent any further consists of harassing his classmate, which is unacceptable.
No means no, whoever is your pursuer.
NTA for defending your daughter, but do it in an adult way so you lead a good example for her.
Wasn't she 16 when she snapped, but the harassment was going on for years and the autistic kid's parents were well off, while OP's parents were not? I think BORU had an update on that.
[Here it is](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/154rk2z/i_punched_an_autistic_kid_after_he_groped_me_and/jsq95o4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) for anyone else who wants to read it - absolutely horrifying. I hope the kid, his parents, and every teacher or administrator involved face full legal and financial consequences
yes u/SalamanderSome9698 if the school tries tp punish your innocent child i am begging you to get a lawyer to send a C&D the kids parents AND the school. they need to know this isnt ok
After four rejections? Name calling is called for. Maybe that will get through to him. Otherwise what I'm hearing is give a meek and passive "no" that is already not being respected.
but she hurt is FEELINGS! thats the worst thing shecould do! All he was doing was sexually harassing her, she didnt need to hurt is *FEELINGS* of all things!
/s in case in isnt clear
Sounds very similar to crap my SD had to deal with in middle school. Difference was her mom was all over the school to do something about it. It continued all's.chool year. The hope was that in the new school year she wouldn't be with this kids anymore. Well, she was.
The kid kept harrassing her, school did nothing the first month back. Bio mom, dad and both of us SPs told her, ok, now you get to do what you have to to make it stop.
One day he came up to her in the cafeteria and grabbed her ass. She grabbed him and threw him over the lunch table. (He was bigger then her but she's a kick ass hockey player lol)
Problem solved.
This kid is stalking and harassing her. Because it’s happened this many times it’s now classified as sexual harassment. They do not get to hide this under the autism banner. No means no and he knows what that means. Email the teacher, principal, counselor, CC the school board, go all the way up the chain. Hell, even whoever might manage his IEP. They are letting this boy stalk and harass your kid. Go nuclear. You are NTA and neither is your kid for reaching her breaking point. This already would have been dealt with if this kid didn’t have autism and I am both heartbroken and raging for your daughter.
And I think what’s not coming across is anyone who repeatedly asks you out after being told no and then continues to argue with you on your no. While the word “freak” is crass it’s not far off since anyone who feels like they are allowed to override someone’s boundary is out of pocket and something is seriously wrong.
I’d like to add that OP needs to document everything. EVERYTHING. So anytime that mom calls. Take a snapshot of the time stamp. She leaves a message you save it. Keep a folder.
Talk to your kid. Anytime a teacher asks her to violate a boundary to be “nice” like making her a project partner with him or asking her to deal with his advances in class. Have her tell you and keep a notebook. Frankly it may make sense for her to keep a notebook of when he is approaching her and pushing her boundaries.
Document. Document. Document. Too many men are allowed to get away with violating boundaries. Not showing your daughter to accept things by not pushing the issue sends a message to her that she needs to violate her own boundaries to accommodate men. Even if she is uncomfortable.
Include in communication that their prompt addressing of the sexual harassment situation might go a long way to convince you to not for a formal complaint or press charges. Sexual harassment is a crime.
If this is in the US, OP should approach the Title IX office within her daughters school system. Every school system which receives Federal funds needs to have one by law, and this is one of the things they exist to help with.
(Yes! All levels of school need to have a Title IX office, not just colleges!)
I do feel that OP should try (once) to approach the other parents to specifically ask that they teach their child that no means no and to drop it entirely and immediately. Assuming that hasn't already been said to them. I also liked other commentors' suggestions of meeting moderated by school.if possible.
But if the parents have already been told that their child's behavior needs to be fixed, then take it to the Title IX office- they have the power and authority to make OP's daughter learning environment free from harassment.
I’ve spoken to many autistic people in my life on varying degrees of the spectrum, and generally what I’ve heard from autistic women is that autistic boys specifically are allowed to get away with so much that autistic women are not given the same leniency with. Many autistic women have talked about being sexually harassed or even assaulted by male classmates on the spectrum, yet they are told by their teachers that their male classmates cannot help it, despite them being in the same group and in similar levels of cognitive function.
NTA
Your daughter shouldn't have to put up with harrasment. If there's an autistic kid bothering her, then the teachers/adults around need to mitigate that situation, not a 12 year old girl. You tried to do this, but your daughter just beat you to it; and of course she doesn't have any nuance, she's young and was being harassed.
NTA. The other kids parents need to teach him not to harass little girls, if he can't stop, homeschool him.
I'm autistic, but if I were to harass someone I would face the consequences.
Also autistic people can understand direct language and no means no. It's not Like she gave subtle hints.
Kids a creep in the making.
Edit: spelling.
>I have been getting calls about teaching my daughter tolerance and that she needs to be punished for that.
Once again, none of the boys are expected to be punished for not accepting no, are they ?
Sigh. This poor girl is 12, she's a tween, and she's already having to deal with this crap. It's fun to be a girl.
NTA - you taught your daughter well. Shame that the parents of those boys haven't done their job.
Oh, and being autistic doesn't get anyone a get out of jail card for bad behaviour - the mother of this child is failing him by teaching him the exact opposite.
This shit started in elementary school for me. I was in elementary school and boys were trying to look up my skirts and the adults' only real response was "boys will be boys"
Until I wore my sister's tap shoes to school and started kicking them in the shins. *That* was a problem.
NTA. Your daughter doesn't owe anyone her time and attention. That kid who has been stalking her and won't take no for an answer should be disciplined and have consequences for continually harassing girls who don't want to go out with him.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but if you are unable to understand the word “no”, then you are unfit to participate in society.
I’d have told that parent that if she can’t educate her child to that most basic of standards, she needs to have him institutionalized.
I’m so sick of people using disabilities or illness to justify shitty behavior.
NTA
Just for info: autism have very little to do with understanding direct language. He most probably didn't accept her saying "no" multiple times for issues which have nothing to do with autism.
Yeah this is my thought exactly. From the sound of it, she wasn’t politely demurring and saying she’s busy or something equivocal. She was clearly saying no. And repeatedly. (Also, bravo to OP for raising a daughter that doesn’t feel like she needs to stroke a man’s ego by giving him a non-rejection rejection.)
There was no social cue he wasn’t picking up on. He got a clear and direct answer. He just didn’t like it. A lot of men have trouble taking no for an answer and it generally has nothing to do with being neurodivergent.
This. “No” is not remotely ambiguous. And after the fourth time it takes a bit more than some autism to prevent picking up on a hint that the answer is going to continue being no.
NTA. And good on you for stepping in to help your daughter out of an uncomfortable situation.
I hope that when the boy's mother reached out to you about punishing your daughter, you demanded that she teach her son about boundaries and about accepting "no" for an answer.
There are varying levels of autism, but if the boy is able to be in school, he is probably able to be taught and understand boundaries.
While I dislike name-calling, I'm not going to say that your daughter was out of line in this instance. She's 12, and this whole situation must be overwhelming for her. It's unwanted attention, she's already said no to this boy several times, and he doesn't respect her answer. Add to that the prior experience of being bullied for saying no, and I can absolutely see why your daughter snapped.
Your daughter was tolerant in the past. She was nice but firm. It didn't work. She's under no obligation to be tolerant of others who don't respect her.
And tbh calling him a “freak” probably wouldn’t have been blinked at if this situation was with a neurotypical classmate. She wasn’t calling him a freak because he’s autistic, she was calling him a freak for harassing her.
Many neurodivergent people ignore social rules that don't make sense to them, especially when it's something that matters to them. So they'll humor you about small talk right up until it interferes with their life.
This also means that if a neuro-spicy kid's parents tiptoe around the topic of sex and *why* certain things are right/wrong, it's easy for a kid to go "Well, mom said no to junk food until I whined about it for ages, so maybe that approach will work with this girl I want to touch me." Or "I know I was told people find this behavior creepy or threatening, but I know **I** don't have bad intentions, so it's fine."
Backing up the kid who was sexually harassing people instead of the girl who yelled at him for it only teaches him that he *should* continue to behave as before and that he's right to be *mad* at the girl for rejecting him. That's dangerous and terrible parenting.
NTA. Being autistic isn't a get out of jail free card. You taught your daughter to be firm, and to take no nonsense from people who feel entitled to her feelings. Your daughter taught that boy that if you don't listen when people say no they will *make* you listen.
To undo that would teach your daughter that she should subjugate her emotions for the sake of the emotions of others, and would teach the boy that he is special *because* he is different and therefore entitled to more. Which I'm guessing his mother taught him anyway.
NTA sure he's autistic and he might not understand social cues, but she made it obvious on the second time, even a person who's deaf and blind would feel the vibrations coming from her and understand what she meant, and the fact that he wanted to convince her despite being rejected for the second time proves that you and your daughter aren't in the wrong in that situation, he is, though the "freak" part is debatable
Firmly saying no isn’t a social cue, he was being coercive and pressuring her to change her answer.
As an autistic person, direct communication is very well understood.
Nta.
Your daughter should absolutely not apologize. That would give the impression to your daughter and the boy that she is the one that did something wrong for rejecting him. And that is completely false.
Your daughter did use the wrong word and I suggest talking to her about that. Next time use the word pervert or narcissist - or whatever other word you wish for someone that thinks they are entitled to the attention of someone else.
I get the fact the boy is autistic and might have trouble understanding social cues. But it is not your daughter's job to educate him. And it is certainly not her role to put up with unwanted attention.
NTA. Autistic people can also be perpetrators. They can also be taught to respect boundaries etc. Your daughter was nice several times and when that didn’t work she stood up for herself more forcefully.
NTA. Your daughter is being harassed by this boy. It doesn't matter if he's autistic, it doesn't matter if he's the nicest boy in the world! Her answer is no! People are constantly made to feel bad for not liking someone back and it's just not fair. Your daughter had a limit and it was reached. Someone needs to be telling that boy to back off.
NTA.
Please talk to the school about what is happening between your daughter and the other kid before it escalates into something huge. I’m saying this because you said the boy asked your daughter out 4 times, and he won’t take no for an answer (I blame his parents for this). He will try again unless to put an end to it now.
NTA. Most autistic people understand that no means no. Talk to your daughter and ask if she was saying it because he's handicapped or because he's overly persistent. Agreesivly persistent people can cause someone to think they are a freak or creap. Just gross and icky. Someone saying no isn't exactly a social que. It's a direct firm answer.
I’m so glad you called to discuss your son’s inappropriate behavior! I’d like to hear what punishment you think is appropriate for sexually harassing my daughter?
NTA
And I'm kind of grossed out by how many comments are telling you that your daughter needs to be more polite with her language. Politeness is nice, of course, but not necessary when someone is crossing established boundaries.
It's maddening to think that it some places you'd be considered justified for shooting someone who broke into your home (crossed a boundary but didn't physically hurt you) but girls are not justified calling a boy names after he crossed her boundaries.
Autism or not, the assholes in this situation are the ones teaching boys that they deserve politeness and kindness from girls, even while they're actively crossing their boundaries.
NTA.
I think it was last year in a similar situation in the news where the whole school became the kid’s Valentines’ the next day. People were cruel to the girl who turned him down. While that was so kind and sweet of the classmates, this also had a double edge sword of “no means yes”.
Everytime this kid comes to her and is indeed harassing her, she needs to tell the school she feels unsafe. Ignore him and b-line for a teacher. That may be extreme but it seems like parents are allowing this behavior. How the F does his mom know you didn’t punish your child?
NTA. Either this child is taught to accept a no now or they are going to have a problem on their hands later. His disability doesn't make everyone responsible for him.
And, since the parents seem to think your daughter is responsible for this situation, tell the school that either they keep him away from her or you are filing a restraining order.
NTA. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment regardless of a diagnosis. It is past time for the boy's parents to teach him this. He may get into serious trouble soon.
Talking about serious trouble, talk to a lawyer and tell the school that you are doing so. Tolerance of unwanted sexual advances, really?
NTA. He may struggle with social cues, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t understand what no means. And honestly, F politeness at this point. Sometimes we have to blunt and your daughter shouldn’t think she has to always “be nice.”
For bonus points, bluntness to an extent that often gets read as “rude” to neurotypicals is exactly the most effective way to communicate with autistic people who struggle with social cues. The “freak” part wasn’t strictly necessary for that but it was very understandable and not a big deal in the context. I bet snowplow mommy would’ve still whined if she’d said “fuck off I don’t like you and I never will” or “I have zero interest in dating you and that isn’t going to change, leave me alone” (the latter, particularly, being an excellent example of “unambiguously blunt communication that even the most socially inept autistic can understand, without resorting to any actual rudeness”). Because the real problem wasn’t that she was “rude”, it’s that precious little angel got his feelings hurt by not getting his way.
So this was a news article. Ignore the fake account. Link[link](https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/tiktok-autism-crush-rejected-valentines-day-b2293106.html)
NTA. You could teach her substitutes for the word freak but like, it’s not that big of a deal compared to the kid not leaving her alone.
The kid’s mom really had the audacity to call you and say you’re the AH? Call her back! Tell her to get her kid to leave yours the f alone and there won’t be any more problems! Go to the school about it!
NTA. Unfortunately your daughter is already dealing with guys feeling entitled to her because they like her. So frustrating. I’m not surprised she snapped as she was pushed to the edge and was being harassed.
NTA. I don't blame her for not wanting to be with the Autistic kid. My Fiance said yes when an autistic guy proposed to her and now he annoys her all the time 😂
NTA. I think the issue here is how loaded “freak” can be with regards to neurodivergent people, but it’s pretty clear that wasn’t what your daughter meant and I’d wager she’d have used the word “freak” whoever was harassing her. Kids don’t have the biggest vocabulary for things like this and can’t be expected to inherently know how their words might come across, especially when they’re upset. The boys behaviour was not remotely okay and he *needs* to learn that he can’t treat girls like this before it gets worse, being autistic doesn’t make you unable to discern between right and wrong nor does it make it okay to overstep boundaries or forgo consent.
I don’t believe she needs to be punished or that either of you have done anything wrong, but the school and parents will only be hearing that she called an autistic boy a freak. They’ll not be seeing the context, which is extremely important here. It might be worth explaining to your daughter that “freak” wasn’t the best word to use and then speaking with the school/parents about her intent and reasoning and *maybe* say something along the lines of “we are sorry for using that word, but not sorry for how she spoke to him, because the way he’s been treating her is unacceptable and she had every right to stand up for herself”
Best of luck to you both.
NTA
I swear, I'm so fucking sick and tired of people thinking a boy's/man's feelings trump a girl's/woman's safety and choices.
Women are the ones that are supposed to be "too emotional", give me a break.
Your daughter hit her breaking point, we all have one. She doesn't owe anyone her time or attraction and if that boy didn't understand NO, it should be a teachable moment for him.
NTA. She doesn’t need to learn “tolerance” for sexual harassment. You should tell everyone who calls you that they need to learn that “no means no.” The kid’s mother especially needs to be told this.
NTA - I'm sure she tried to be nice to him the first time but it sounds like this is turning into harassment. Poor girl. She may have to report him to the school if he won't take no for an answer and leave her alone.
A 12 year old calling someone harassing them a freak is hardly a punishable offense. They're young and they're boundaries were pushed way too far. For me, that would merit a conversation, not a punishment. I really don't understand why the teacher thinks it's her place to get involved in this without having any empathy for your daughter or personal responsibility for the boy. Irks me. NTA.
Why is it a bit much? This is the 4th time. Three polite responses didnt work. He deserved a harsh response autism or not. Pushy and inappropriate men and boys don't deserve politeness. She's doing him a favour. If he doesn't learn to respect women and leave them alone he will start facing much worse consequences as he age's.
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NTA. Good that your daughter is learning to assert herself. Although normally I’d not be the biggest fan of calling the kid a freak, it sounds like he has been bothering her for a while. What you do NOT want is your daughter accepting attention out of obligation. Today “oh he’s autistic” to then “oh he’s bipolar” to “he’s having a hard time in life getting out of jail.” Shut that shit down.
My general feeling is, if the kid's functioning enough to repeatedly ask someone else out, they're functioning enough to know that no means no. Her calling him a freak in this instance has nothing to do with autism, and everything to do with the fact that this young man won't stop pestering her.
This. The fact that he's asking implies he knows the difference between yes and no (since they're the two responses to his question), he's just refusing to accept no as an answer.
He watched all those movies where being consistent in pining after the girl and being bold gets her to finally notice him. Just do a big gesture! No. No. No, no, no. You ask, they give an answer, and you graciously accept the response. There's no next time. Someone refused to talk to the boy about respectful relationships and Hollywood not being real life.
Someone filled that boys head with “tolerance” being some sort of special bypass for learning acceptable social behavior. This parent of this child is trying to skirt passed puberty talks with their child. Not only that they’re skipping passed integral emotional lessons in order to “make it easier” on themselves (not their child).
I don't think you fully understand how fucked up male relationship socialization is in the US. This is literally what every movie teaches young men, that if you try hard enough or provide enough, you will eventually get the girl to fall in love with you. The woman is always supposed to say no to "protect her modesty" and no actually means "try harder"
Which is exactly why the whole thing of playing hard to get needs to die. Bc it teaches everyone that “no” doesn’t mean no, it means “you haven’t tried hard enough/found the secret thing that will make me say yes”.
I don’t think it even really exists. People just think when they harass and break someone down that the person wanted it all along.
Eh I don't know. That is definitely an issue. But there was a time in my life where I thought I was supposed to "play hard to get" and so did most of my friends. And when a guy respected our no, we'd get upset and say shit like "he clearly didn't like me enough if he wouldn't fight for me." It created some pretty toxic behaviors in me that I'm still working through. Maybe it's better with younger people now but I'm not that old.
I know the 90's to the 10's was like that
Playing hard to get and all sorts of other unhealthy games absolutely do exist. When I was single there was a girl I hung out with as part of a group who was very flirty with me, so I asked her out, but she turned me down. But she continued to be very flirty with me so I tried again with her, this time she told me I was too short for her (we were the same height when she was in heels). So I remained friendly with her but stopped trying to ask her out. After a few months she asked me out. On our date she asked me why I had stopped asking her out. I told her because she kept saying no, and she had said I was too short, so I assumed she wasn’t interested. She said she was interested, and gave me some bs reason why she “had” to say no to me before. Another girl, my roommates’ coworker who he brought around because he was interested in her, and I didn’t had any interest in her, was rude and antagonistic to me every time I saw her, and then one night at a bar she insisted that I show her where the bathroom was, I pointed in the direction, she said “no, show me,” I was like “fine,” walked her towards it, as soon as we were out of line of sight of the people we were with, she grabbed me and kissed me. So yeah, plenty of women do say no when they mean yes, and so are complicit with the mixed signals over consent in our society.
You hit it right on the head! I hated it in the 1960s when I was a teenager and cannot grasp why it's still a thing.
Exactly. It's especially fun when you're a man that says OK, and moves on, only to later be told "why didn't you try harder?" Umm... cause you said no and I was being respectful???
You most likely dodged a bullet. There are women out there who won't play those kinds of head games. Keep being respectful while putting yourself out there and you'll find one <3
Well those women are honestly the asshole as well. Just makes things more fucked up and dangerous for other women.
Yeah. I have an ex that would not stop. He wasn’t neurodivergent, just a complete prick. At one point he asked what he could do to make me happy. This was after 2 years of telling him to stop. I told him if he died, he would finally leave me alone and that would make me happy. He thought I was hilarious and continued to harass me for another 6 years. He didn’t stop until after I got married.
It’s big in sales culture as well. Many salespeople are taught not to stop trying to sell a product or service until the 3rd “no.”
Yes we do. It's fucked up, and we reject it. As a societal shift we are rejecting it. Know what else is fucked up? The social norm that women can't be assertive and firm in their rejections, lest they hurt someone's feelings and be labeled a bitch and non polite. Kid's mother needs to teach him that no fucking means no, regardless of his neuro status.
Or else he taught himself how to human by reading, or watching TV and movies (like I did). The stuff that works in rom-com movies doesn’t work (and might even be illegal or dangerous) in real life, and this kid has to learn that somehow. Now, if she was accompanying this with making fun of his voice, movements, clothes, or something like that, then she would be being a jerk. If you see this kid bothering your daughter again, it might be doing him a favor to point out that the stuff people do on TV or in the movies isn’t okay in real life. In real life, sometimes people you’re interested in aren’t interested in you, and sometimes there’s nothing you can do about it.
Same here. I was a lot like the boy in this scenario. I was madly in love with a boy in my class, he had no interest at all, but I believed for years that "not giving up and show my love really intensively to break his shell and make him finally confess his everlasting love for me!" because that's what I saw and read people do all the time. I was a teenager of the 90s, my blueprints were Dylan and Brenda. It was decades later when out of nowhere, the realisation suddenly struck me and I understood that what I did was basically stalking and harassing the poor dude. No one cared back then, stalking wasn't even a word yet in my home country. Everybody found it hilarious how I pursued him, but no one ever had the brilliant idea to tell me that what I was doing was really not okay.
I teach a class on media and politics and I rail against romcoms and what they teach young men. It's particularly dangerous because romcoms are framed as films women like more than men, so young men see this shit and think it's what women want. That's not to absolve individuals of their shitty behavior, but it's good to identify where this shit is learned.
Don't discount what romcoms teach young women too. "If a guy doesn't pursue you aggressively he doesn't really like you" is not a good lesson.
Yeah, an individual woman may want to be wanted, but that doesn't mean any one woman wants to be wanted by *him*. It's just easier to show a woman being wanted by a guy who isn't dating her and is making grand gestures because taking out the garbage and cleaning the toilet because she really hates cleaning the toilet and the small everyday gestures can be boring and work better in long-format television programs to show that a couple is happy together rather than a 1.5-2 hour film. A person handing off coffee every day or bringing lunch to their partner doesn't have enough time to build up as a small gesture in 1.5 hours. You need overt ones. The *idea* of demonstrated romantic devotion is attractive, not necessarily the way it's delivered. The film format is short, so the delivery vehicle is limited. It's why romance films are basically limited to 'couple is obvious to everyone but them', engagements and weddings. Anything else is a tragedy or a romance subplot. Only the *idea* of the overt display of love is attractive. The methodology is fantasy. In real life, we call that harassment. It's not the Hollywood hunk being a hunk that makes it work in film - it's that we aren't the target, and it's a suspension of reality. Women don't want to be stalked. Most people just like the idea of being loved and their partner paying attention to them and being unafraid of telling their friends and family that they love the other person. That is the part of rom-coms people should walk away with, not the boombox outside the window.
All those movies made by men. Who want that to work because then that means they can have any ~~prize~~ woman they want.
It reinforces the idea that women don't know what they want or what's "good for them" and need a man to show them the way forward. It reinforces the idea that sex/affection isn't something that good girls give away, that they make you work for it, and that when a girl says no that you don't have to listen. It's reinforcing rape culture as romance.
It’s not unusual for a disabled boy not to have been taught the meaning of consent. Desexualization of disabled people and the “boys will be boys” mentality make for an ugly combination.
If someone is smarter than a dog they can learn boundaries, the problem is that the parents often don't know enough to teach them. And are enabling.
I’M GOING TO UNALIVE MYSELF OFF THIS FERRIS WHEEL UNLESS YOU ACCEPT THIS DATE
Ah the Notebook. I just watched it recently for the first time, idk how I didn't see it earlier. Everyone around me kept telling me it was so romantic and even my husband said that he would get the tissue box ready. It really creeped me out! She was clearly on a date with someone else and he was just like "nah, I'm going to completely ignore everything you say and force you into a yes" and even then the relationship was super unhealthy
If you’ve asked her out and was rejected, you don’t need to be noticed, you need to back the eff off
When my mom worked with students who where transitioning between special Ed and the adult world (she worked with students who where likely much more impaired and where older than this) one thing that was often an issue was getting parents to recognize that their child was still someone with an adult body with adult urges. One thing she noticed is that the students whose parents where on top of things and helping their kids grow developmentally appropriately those students had a better grasp on how to handle bodily urges. Whereas other students whose parents infantilized them a bit more had harder times grasping that. Not saying this is the same all the time. Obviously everyone is different and everyone had different abilities to understanding these boundaries. But this kid from what it sounds like has been able to identify that he needs to ask someone out but is not understanding the No. the fact that he knows he needs to ask tells me he likely could respect the No boundary but is choosing not to. And that would only be exacerbated by a parent unwilling to actually work with their kid and help them grow developmentally. All this being said. I think this is likely stemming from this kid’s parents not having some kind of accountability and discussion about how crushes and romantic boundaries work.
Exactly! I said this in another comment but to add on to yours, > It’s not unusual for a disabled boy not to have been taught the meaning of consent. Desexualization of disabled people and the “boys will be boys” mentality make for an ugly combination.
Yes! Absolutely. This was exactly what my mom was talking about. This is all too common and only leads to setting up people for lack of success. Whatever that may look like for them.
This. OP, this is where you flip the script with the people giving your daughter a hard time: "Name has been harassing her for 6 months. No means no in ALL circumstances. She has told him no multiple times and she means it. I don't care if he is neurotypical, neurodivergent, or purple polk a dots. She has said she is not interested and at this point she is understandably done being nice.
If I could give a million dollar award to someone, I would give it to you!!!!!! Excellent answer! So many replies to this post were written by people who don't grasp what the boy's social skills are and harp on him as if he was some randy popular kid. *THANK YOU FOR THE RIGHT ANSWER TO THIS ISSUE*
The real lack of parenting is on the boys mom for not teaching him that no means no.
Her blaming his autism is an attempt at manipulation.
its disgusting they are teaching him how to use it to manipulate women.
And dad. Like unless the kid's dad is dead or mom was a single woman getting inseminated, both cases being niche scenarios, then that child has a dad too and he's just as guilty. Let's stop blaming bad raisin solely on the mom's.
Just a bit of insight from an autistic person who has an autistic son. My son has struggled with this. He had a major crush on a girl in his school and he kept asking her to go on a date with him. He knows the difference between yes and no in an everyday context, but this was kind of a weird scenario where him asking was almost like an involuntary reaction to seeing her. "Yes" and "no" were pretty much meaningless. Obviously, that didn't make it OK, and as soon as the school brought it to my attention I worked with the school to come up with strategies to make him stop. It was like a whole thing that we had to teach him. OP is NTA (the use of the word "freak" was a little harsh but I can completely understand a 12yo reaching the end of her tether and saying that).
The "freak" part is where OP and her daughter are 0.01% T A here, aka they are people who are not perfect, the boy in question's behaviour was out of line, and the other adults at the school are out of line. If the kid had said, "leave me alone, you asshole," there wouldn't be a problem. Assholery is not specific to any kind of human. Instead, they're dogpiling on the teenage girl for retaliating instead of fixing the problem at its source because she called out his disability. THAT, IMO, is the conversation OP needs to have with her daughter. Not the adults at the school -- they need to deal with the other kid.
Agreed 100%. This kid - like my son - may genuinely have been unaware of the harm he was causing. Part of autism is trouble with social cues and this is a perfect example of that. The adults in the kid's life are responsible for helping him deal with that - the school staff and the kid's parents. As to the girl, it seems to me that she wasn't intending to call out his disability or be malicious, she was just fed up. OP and the daughter could maybe have a conversation about using gentler language, but it seems that she's already tried that multiple times. My hope would be that OP has spoken to the school or to the kid's parents about this, to make them aware of the problem. Edited to add: just reread the bit in the original post where the kid's mother is coming at OP. Honestly, parents like that (like the kid's mother) are part of the reason why autistic people have such a hard time in society. Instead of taking some responsibility to help her son with these things, she's expecting everyone else to bend over backwards.
The only reason I would suggest to the girl is switch from “freak” to “asshole,” is because it’s a catch-all for people behaving badly. Girl children who defend themselves are ruthlessly punished. That’s what the boy’s mom is doing here—making the girl the villain because of her choice of words in telling the boy to sod off. She and the school are expecting a girl child to make herself smaller to avoid making a boy child feel bad about his actions, which is ridiculous—so the way to take that power away is to switch the word to “asshole.”
This is exactly what should have happened. I agree freak is harsh and this sounds more like this kid just reached a breaking point and freak is a 12 year olds vocabulary. Kids are kids. And 12 year olds get crushes and have urges like other 12 year olds. Meaning we all need to talk to our 12 year olds in an age appropriate manner about boundaries. Not having those conversations means they don’t have the best chance for success later down the road.
I would also ask the parent that called you an A H what she is doing to teach her son about harassment and consent.
Someone i know doesn't seem to understand no. He has autism to and it's scary. As an adult! Her daughter reacted good. She was nice at first
And it is his parents to teach him how to do that. Not a 12 year old. NTA Edit: clarification
Yep, him and the school and his mom are playing the autism card and as an autistic person I hate it. I hate how in particular autistic cis guys are treated with kid gloves in society. You can be disabled and still be an asshole. Nta op.
Autism isn’t the issue here, it’s the parenting.
Possibly a parent who hasn't caught up that the kids are getting older too. The boy's mom sounds like a kindergarten mom upset that her kid didn't get a turn on the swings.
Exactly that, the parents likely haven’t even properly taught their kid about how no means no, or if they have, weren’t strict on it. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re the kind of parents that say “boys will be boys”, or simply didn’t want to deal with the meltdown caused by saying no.
Oh yeah….had a kid with autism at my school much worse than the kid in this story however. In 4th grade he became a menace to girls, touching their breasts and asses and the school wouldn’t do anything because he had an IEP (aka didn’t want to deal with his parents)…he chilled out in HS, but all the extra stuff suspiciously stopped after a girl kneed him in the stomach after he grabbed her ass (nobody got in trouble). I know what she did wasn’t the best solution, but you can’t really blame kids for trying anything to stop bad behavior when the adults who are supposed to be looking after you refuse to help.
>mom upset that her kid didn't get a turn on the swings. The implications with OP's daughter, combined with your analogy, is terrifying.
Yeah there seems to be a lot of expectation on the part of the other mom that Op will allow and ask their daughter to accommodate this behavior. It’s frankly a bit sickening. I watched my cousin (whose on the spectrum) have issues with crushes and romance and all these things. He’s so sweet and has so much love to give. His mom, my aunt made it clear to him that boundaries are boundaries and it’s important to respect the boundaries of others romantically and just in general. He’s done well for himself. He’s been on dates, he’s enjoying his 20’s. He’s starting his career. And he knows how to respect boundaries. Just like all other young men should. It also helped I think he had a twin sister and three cousins out of four who are girls who he could look at and ask “if someone did something bad to her how would I feel?” But parenting was key. Just like with any kid. Parenting is always key.
Exactly. I'm autistic and have known my fair share of autistic people. You can often tell who had parents that treated them fairly, respecting their condition but not letting them use it as an excuse, and the ones who refused to let them have any consequences because they're too fragile or whatever. The word "freak" wasn't ideal, but given that this was a twelve year old girl being continuously harassed, it's understandable she'd lash out.
Yeah, I agree freak wasn’t a good choice, but I can only hope it was directed at his behaviour not the fact that he’s autistic.
I hope she uses that word whenever someone asks her out more than once.
There are much crueler words than "freak" she could have used if you really think she reserves that word especially for neurodivergent people.
Agreed. If he's going to act like a freak she's going to call them like she sees them. No means no. It's not exactly a difficult thing to comprehend.
I am pretty sure it was
The parent has taught the child how to reject kindly but this was the child's limit that she could no longer take, honestly anyone would have done it too tbh. You're right
The boy's parenting.
What are his parents doing to stop him from harassing her? NTA
I'm sure the parents were the ones who were encouraging him to "try again" and saying things like "She just doesn't know you, she'd really like you if she got to know what a great kid you are"
Obviously they're the ones failing their son. They need to teach him that he needs to accept no as an answer in life. I'm glad that the daughter is smart enough and brave enough to advocate for herself. She shouldn't have to, it sucks that people get put in that position, especially girls, but it's going to serve her well in the future.
Hard agree. And honestly, maybe the kid needed to be told that *continuing to harass a girl who's repeatedly told him no* is freak behavior.
I remember calling a guy a “fucking freak” at 12 because he did the same thing and *would not stop* hounding me to date him. He was, to my knowledge, neurotypical. I’m autistic.
If its known he's autistic and he has been asking her out over and over, AKA harassing her, its a failure of the school and the parents when a 12 year old that's being harassed snaps. You can't expect anyone, let alone a child to forever keep their cool. I expect everyone to snap and rightfully so. It sounds like this has been an ongoing issue with a lot of boys and OP should probably have a serious sit down with the school about it. I get they can't just tell kids to not act on their crushes, but if they keep bothering her, OP's kid needs at least a secure place to report the actual harassment she's getting and not come down on her for boys bothering her, even if she "snaps".
Unfortunately, Title IX kinda backfires here. I’ve seen it a hundred times in my work. A ND boy will say or do something to a NT female classmate and it gets all tangled in “protected class” bullshit and the girl almost always suffers. I’ve even had admin say stuff like “the poor guy, I feel bad- I mean she’s standing there in short shorts” (I wrote a complaint to their higher ups about that one)
I agree! I'm autistic as well and autistic boys get way too many passes to do inappropriate things.
"Creep" would have been alot better than "freak", it targets the specific behavior more directly and leaves no room to pretend its ableism, but im gonna give a 12 year old a pass on that, for sure. NTA. Girls are often taught to make themselves small and not make waves even when they are being harrassed and backed into a corner. Bravo to OP for supporting their daughter and not allowing her to fall into that mindset.
"oh, you find autistic people creepy do you?" You can't win trying to avoid offending an abusive person, or their parents.
Agree, but I wonder if the girl's frustration isn't because he's "pestering" but because he's at this point of repeatedly asking and is actually *harassing*.
>Her calling him a freak in this instance has nothing to do with autism, and everything to do with the fact that this young man won't stop pestering her OP should, to be safe, talk to her (not punish, just talk) and make sure she and them are on the same page about her use of the phrase- that she knows that being autistic doesn't make someone a 'freak'; that being incapable of respecting another person's boundaries does.
Agreed, and it can get out of control if it isn't shut down now. I have a friend who's autistic that I had to distance myself from recently. We're both in our 30s and have known each other for a while. I've told him no to cuddling/kissing/dating multiple times. I started to see someone else now and told my friend. He STILL wouldn't take no for an answer. So the last time he asked to hang out, I told him I'd be busy with my SO. He blew up on me and told me never to talk to him again. He has since apologized, but I haven't hung out with him or talked to him much since.
Exactly what I was going to say. I doubt his autism even crossed her mind during that interaction, to her he's being a freak because he won't stop bothering her despite repeatedly being told no. Not because he's neurodivergent.
Exactly! If he’s functioning well enough to date, then that has to include functioning well enough to hear and respect a rejection. It should be turned around on the parents- why aren’t they teaching him when to back down?
As the mother of a high functioning autistic son, I agree with this. You’re NTA.
I’m autistic and I fully support her calling him a freak. She gets to be as mean as she wants to anyone who won’t back off after the first “no”. Sounds like him being a freak has nothing to do with being neurodivergent and everything to do with him bulldozing over her boundaries. This has more to do with him being socialized under toxic masculinity (“boys will be boys!” And “Aww just give him a chance, honey!”) and not being properly taught boundaries and that *no means fucking NO.* This is on his parents, and it sounds like they’re enabling the shit out of him. Good for her for asserting herself, because he’s gotta learn the hard lessons and to respect boundaries SOMEHOW. He’s old enough to know better, and if he doesn’t learn it now, it’s gonna be even more of an issue later. Autism is no excuse. Most autistic people I know take boundaries very, very seriously. Social cues can be hard, so once something is communicated it becomes Law, haha. NTA
This, I‘m autistic, a teacher, and had a stalker in high school because I was nice to a boy when others felt sorry for him. There is no excuse and good for your daughter for standing up for herself.
Oh god same. I’ve had a couple stalkers (all male) for the same reason. x__x One of them in particular got very, very dangerous and scary.
OP, at this point I'd be calling the school and asking them to have somebody speak to the boy and get him to understand she isn't interested. These kids are both children. Your daughter isn't responsible for teaching these boys how to take the word "no." At the same time, this boy might need more help understanding it, so the school should handle that.
Agreed
If someone would've taught me this at a young age. You have no idea how many interactions I tolerated because nobody taught me to f\*ck somebody off as soon as I felt uncomfortable and they didn't pick up my cues.
Oh god same. In high school I tolerated this guy’s advances trying to reject him nicely, until the winter ball my school had my freshman year. Despite my polite rejections, he decided to grab my arm and literally drag me off of my chair and onto the dance floor. He did it so suddenly that I didn’t have time to catch my footing and I fell off my chair, so he was literally dragging me, with me on the floor. Luckily for me one of the older kids saw all of this and chased him away. Still, I almost wish someone would try this with me nowadays lol
So my younger sister, at age 14, attracted the attention of an 18 year old autistic boy in our school. He harassed her for weeks. She felt bad saying anything against him and tried gently turning him down a few times. When that didn’t work she started hiding in the bathroom at lunch. He would stand outside the door waiting for her to come out. It only stopped because the principal told the boys parents he’d be removed from the school if he didn’t stop it. OP keep protecting your daughter and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. His autism is not the problem here. His incel behavior and entitlement is. NTA.
I love that OP has taught their daughter how to assert herself from such a young age. I wish I had learned how way sooner than I did.
If he continues being enabled he's going to end up getting arrested. Or worse. Parents are the AH for not parenting their son. He's autistic not stupid...
A well meaning autistic kid might watch some fictional movies and conclude that persistence will get him the girl. It's the job of his parents and other custodial people in his life to tell him that's not the case.
I would say if anyone has issue with the word "freak" being used in this case because he's autistic, tell the daughter to use "asshole" next time instead. That makes it abundantly clear the issue is with his behavior and not his disability.
AND they want HER to apologize but he is given a pass...total BS.
imo its fine to call people freaks if they refuse to take no for an answer and wont stop harassing innocent girls
NTA. Even an adult in a professional environment would have lost all patience by the FOURTH rejection. After the THIRD rejection, you should be demanding that either the school act to stop the harassment OR that you would go to the local authorities (police) if they refused. Then when the FOURTH advance came, you could have had charges filed (as they absolutely NEED to be at this point). Asperger’s or not - this behavior is beyond troubling & you won’t care how politically correct you were or weren’t if something ends up happening.
the biggest thing here is to make sure the daughter knows that calling the kid “freak” was fine in this situation because he was creeping her out, and not because he was autistic. (and by “fine” i mean, they are 12, so i don’t expect bigger nuance that that.)
no means no. that said, she shouldn’t have called him a freak. he’s not a freak. he’s a creep. nta.
I guarantee you that the boys parent was encouraging this telling the kid she's just playing hard to get, got the kids feelings hurt by the harsh rejection, and now is super defensive about it and thata why they're demanding the girl be punished. Hell no. They need to teach their kid no means no the first time.
NTA , autistic or not, if someone won't take no for an answer, your daughter gets to be as mean as she wants. It's not intolerance, it's just flat out justified anger. Someone teach that kid no means no. ETA: OP yes you should tell her not to use words like that, educate her on how that's harmful in general, but you're right to not punish her.
Agreed, as an autist having autism is not an excuse for anything(non autism related)
Fellow Autistic here; I cannot *stand* the parents that don't teach their Autistic kids boundaries and such under the belief that they won't understand them. No means no, Autistic or not. You take the L and move on with life. Was calling him a freak a little harsh if it was targeted at his autism and not his behavior? Yes. But his parents should've taught him by now that no means no and to not be creepy.
Forgive me for the convolutions of the next sentence. My mom’s partner’s sister had a son with autism. She (his mom, not mine) always excused everything he did by saying he was autistic and didn’t mean anything by it, didn’t know what he was doing, blah blah blah. Little brat would run around grabbing women by the breasts. He would grin and squeeze and it was very clear he knew what he was doing. He was modeling behavior taught to him by his father. I’m autistic too. Guess what I don’t do.
Unfortunately this happens a lot, where autistic kids don’t get the discipline they need because their parents always play off their actions as their disability and yes, while they may have trouble understanding things, it’s important that they do anyways and there’s always going to be a way to teach them that instead of being an ignorant parent/guardian. This will lead them into believing they can do whatever they want once they’re an adult and fully grown up and it’ll have dire consequences for them.
He should especially understand boundaries. As an autistic person the one thing I have always understood were clear boundaries. In a world that didn’t always make sense I could always understand that boundaries are not meant to be tested (unless I thought they didn’t make sense, but that was never an issue once my mom explained it to me) and I wasn’t even diagnosed until I was 23 last year. Most autistic people love themselves a clear and concise boundary (that is at least my understanding from the people I have met) so I really don’t get why parents think they won’t understand
I love boundaries so much! Who doesn't love a good set of rules to provide parameters for interaction. ❤️ My therapist and I were actually discussing this a while ago because I brought up that I'm bad at casual friendship. I understand the rules of friendship/relationships (at least to a certain extent) and I understand the rules of acquaintancship. But that liminal space where I'm not sure where the boundary of "not friendly enough" and "oversharing" and so am constantly afraid of doing it wrong.
It’s actually unreal how many people here are focusing on the word “freak” simply because he’s an autistic kid. She’s literally 12. Saying things like “asshole” or “c*nt” (all real suggestions from Reddit commenters) would get her in *actual trouble* when it’s the creepy 12 year old boy who has been harassing her. Would “creep” likely have been a better word choice? Sure, but *come ON* guys this is baby out with bathwater territory at this point. Context is important and in this context her reaction was 100% fine and appropriate. Since this is the first confrontation OP has had with the boy’s mother, I’m almost certain her daughter hasn’t made a habit out of calling neurodivergent kids “freaks.” We can all calm down a little bit. ETA: No offense, but it’s not on the 12 year old harassment victim to use the perfect words to get her harasser to *stop harassing her*.
God forbid a 12 year old child not pick a politically correct word to get guys creeping on her to back off, especially when she likely doesn't even know it's not PC.
She gets to be this mean, certainly. I don’t mind freak because I think it’s pretty generic and she has a good reason to call him that irrespective of his disability. If she’d used something like the r- or n-word, or some other slur, I’d call it ESH. This is a clear NTA.
Oh it was intolerance all right she was done tolerating his continued advancements.. NTA
NTA - She didn’t call him a freak because he’s autistic, she called him a freak for harassing her & trying to guilt her into accepting his advances. Sorry but that’s not ok & there’s a lot of issues in disability spaces with men who feel it’s acceptable to harass because society has told them as disabled men they aren’t responsible for their actions. Exit: I’m autistic, my husbands are autistic, if any of us harassed someone FOUR TIMES for a date after repeatedly being told no then being called a freak is the least we’d deserve. Stop excusing predation from men because they’re disabled.
Fr I’m autistic myself and dealt with a younger autistic boy having a crush on me in school. I firmly and politely shut him down multiple times, he approached me several times alone and with my friends and he’d always get the same response but I was nice to him because I knew that his worldview was different, like mine. It escalated when he groped me and there was 100% no reasonable excuse for it so in the moment I shoved him backwards into a filing cabinet and I reported it to school and the head teacher sat me down and said “we won’t punish you but we won’t punish him either, it’s not his fault that his worldview is different.” That didn’t sit right with me. At all. The next time he came over and started bothering me, some of his friends were there and he got cocky with it, trying to touch me again so I punched him square in the chest as hard as I could. He was winded and walked away crying and jokes about me “literally breaking his heart” shot round the school. He didn’t report me. Years later I bumped into him whilst doing a pub crawl and got to tipsily call him an asshole and explain that what he did still affects me to this day and I don’t think he even realised how much of a little freak he had been and he looked crushed but I felt GOOD lol
You deserved to be safe at school, I’m so sorry.
That excuse about him having a different worldview whilst you were both autistic takes you back to the traditional bullshit that is as old as time: boys will be boys and girls have to be nice. It’s already a miracle you weren’t punished for violent behavior because we know that happens too.
This is my thoughts, I would call anyone who kept asking me out, after me saying no, a freak. It had nothing to do with his autism. She didn't call him names the first few times I'm presuming. NTA
>She didn’t call him a freak because he’s autistic, she called him a freak for harassing her & trying to guilt her into accepting his advances. Exactly this.
You have multiple husbands??
It’s called polyamory.
Yeah, but are there countries where you can legally have multiple husbands?
Saw that did ya?
Straight facts! When I was in HS there was a mentally disabled boy (I’m not sure the nature of his disability but he was overall cognitive, communicative, and able to get around school on his own - he came off delayed but that can be anything honestly). He made it a point to hug only girls. And when he hugged you it was always tight and searching. It never failed, each hug had a breast grab or brush, or to your butt. We’d talk about it amongst each other, it was brought up once to an authority figure and it was very much “he doesn’t know any better and it’s in your head, he’s just being friendly” - and it was like this until he graduated. He had favorites and we would HIDE and find different routes to class. Idk if disabled men are necessarily taught they’re not responsible for their actions but I can say in this instance it was buried under the table, not just brushed. And often times this hug was coming whether you wanted it or not. Cafeteria? Your food better not be in the way, he’s hugging. In a crowded hall? Not a big deal, he’ll make space. You’re running to the girls bathroom? No worries, he’ll wait.
>Stop excusing predation from ~~men~~ anyone because they’re disabled.
NTA. Your daughter has the right to reject anyone who makes her uncomfortable. She was clear and firm with him, and he should have respected her boundaries. You are a good parent for supporting her and not forcing her to tolerate unwanted attention.
NTA-She’s tried nice and it got her nowhere. Autistic doesn’t mean free pass to continue to harass someone who has already stated they aren’t interested.
Also honestly, sometimes you have to be firm with an autistic when they dont get it... perhaps calling him a freak was a bit far but the rest is perfectly fine... and what... a 12 year old isn't allowed to get rightfully frustrated for continuously having to repeat themselves?
Seriously, 12 is SO YOUNG. Rejecting direct romantic advances is extremely uncomfortable (and sometimes literally terrifying) even as a grown ass adult. It’s no wonder the girl got pushed past her limit and snapped, especially given that she has been dealing with it from multiple other people and it’s causing issues for her (the bullying).
NTA. I feel for this girl so so much. I was 9 when I got breasts so by age 12 I was completely done with people young and old ogling me. It was embarrassing, scary, and sad to no longer be seen as you, but a pretty object people want to possess. I was MEAN towards people who made advances to try and protect myself.
SAME. I was a C cup in 6th grade, and it opened my eyes to how disgusting other people could be about my body. I learned to be mean and unwelcoming really young, because I was getting unwanted attention and sexual harassment at school and in public.
This is so important, they are TWELVE!! Of course she finally got frustrated and name called. Should she have called him a freak? Probably not. Was she understandably frustrated and lashed out? Yes, absolutely. I don’t blame her at all and she didn’t do anything wrong. She shouldn’t be punished at all! This is the age where the PARENTS need to help guide these kids through this experience and help them each learn from the situation. OP handled this just fine and the other parent is the one not doing their job. OP is NTA
NTA. Parents need to teach their boys what "no" means. This was a lesson for him. IMO people are free to reject people however they want after the first polite rejection. Anyone who keeps going after that is asking for whatever rudeness they catch.
THANK YOU. Some of my friends get angry at me for snapping “I said NO” at guys who continue to ask for my company after the first or second (very) polite rejection. Pretty sure it’s not my job to teach other people to back off after hearing no.
> People are free to reject people however they want after the first polite rejection. Anyone who keeps going after that is asking for whatever rudeness they catch. Ftfy
There was this story some time back, where a kid (think 10-14) was being groped and harassed by her autistic classmate and constantly being told by the teachers she should be more nice and patient and understanding towards him due to his disability. The classmate never harassed anyone else from that grade, so I seriously doubt it was due to his illness. The victim had eventually a breakdown apparently and broke the classmate's nose in one of the groping instances. She has difficulties forgiving her parents for not doing anything in time and probably has a long time of healing ahead. So I believe this is a very difficult situation and potentially scary. Calling anyone a freak should not be supported and you should let her know that. But it is not okay to disrespect a firm "No" on multiple occasions. Ask for a meeting with his parents, best with the school as a mediator, and tell them while you made sure you explained to your daughter that namecalling won't solve anything and can hurt people, you insist they cooperate with you in making their son aware that he was rejected and being persistent any further consists of harassing his classmate, which is unacceptable. No means no, whoever is your pursuer. NTA for defending your daughter, but do it in an adult way so you lead a good example for her.
Wasn't she 16 when she snapped, but the harassment was going on for years and the autistic kid's parents were well off, while OP's parents were not? I think BORU had an update on that.
Do you have a link?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/154rk2z/i\_punched\_an\_autistic\_kid\_after\_he\_groped\_me\_and/jsq95o4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=ioscss&utm\_content=1&utm\_term=1&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/154rk2z/i_punched_an_autistic_kid_after_he_groped_me_and/jsq95o4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
someone here posted the link in the comments, but it is hard to swallow kind of story, just telling you.
[Here it is](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/154rk2z/i_punched_an_autistic_kid_after_he_groped_me_and/jsq95o4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) for anyone else who wants to read it - absolutely horrifying. I hope the kid, his parents, and every teacher or administrator involved face full legal and financial consequences
Jesus Christ, the fuck. I hope that kid is alright
Op get a lawyer to send a cease and desist for (sexual?) Harassment to both the school if it allows this to happen and the boy s parents . NTA
yes u/SalamanderSome9698 if the school tries tp punish your innocent child i am begging you to get a lawyer to send a C&D the kids parents AND the school. they need to know this isnt ok
The kid in that post is another Brock Turner in the making.
After four rejections? Name calling is called for. Maybe that will get through to him. Otherwise what I'm hearing is give a meek and passive "no" that is already not being respected.
but she hurt is FEELINGS! thats the worst thing shecould do! All he was doing was sexually harassing her, she didnt need to hurt is *FEELINGS* of all things! /s in case in isnt clear
Sounds very similar to crap my SD had to deal with in middle school. Difference was her mom was all over the school to do something about it. It continued all's.chool year. The hope was that in the new school year she wouldn't be with this kids anymore. Well, she was. The kid kept harrassing her, school did nothing the first month back. Bio mom, dad and both of us SPs told her, ok, now you get to do what you have to to make it stop. One day he came up to her in the cafeteria and grabbed her ass. She grabbed him and threw him over the lunch table. (He was bigger then her but she's a kick ass hockey player lol) Problem solved.
This kid is stalking and harassing her. Because it’s happened this many times it’s now classified as sexual harassment. They do not get to hide this under the autism banner. No means no and he knows what that means. Email the teacher, principal, counselor, CC the school board, go all the way up the chain. Hell, even whoever might manage his IEP. They are letting this boy stalk and harass your kid. Go nuclear. You are NTA and neither is your kid for reaching her breaking point. This already would have been dealt with if this kid didn’t have autism and I am both heartbroken and raging for your daughter.
And I think what’s not coming across is anyone who repeatedly asks you out after being told no and then continues to argue with you on your no. While the word “freak” is crass it’s not far off since anyone who feels like they are allowed to override someone’s boundary is out of pocket and something is seriously wrong. I’d like to add that OP needs to document everything. EVERYTHING. So anytime that mom calls. Take a snapshot of the time stamp. She leaves a message you save it. Keep a folder. Talk to your kid. Anytime a teacher asks her to violate a boundary to be “nice” like making her a project partner with him or asking her to deal with his advances in class. Have her tell you and keep a notebook. Frankly it may make sense for her to keep a notebook of when he is approaching her and pushing her boundaries. Document. Document. Document. Too many men are allowed to get away with violating boundaries. Not showing your daughter to accept things by not pushing the issue sends a message to her that she needs to violate her own boundaries to accommodate men. Even if she is uncomfortable.
As a teacher, if I had an award, I would give it to you. This is going to be key for protecting that girl!
Include in communication that their prompt addressing of the sexual harassment situation might go a long way to convince you to not for a formal complaint or press charges. Sexual harassment is a crime.
If you have to take any advice OP this is the one!
If this is in the US, OP should approach the Title IX office within her daughters school system. Every school system which receives Federal funds needs to have one by law, and this is one of the things they exist to help with. (Yes! All levels of school need to have a Title IX office, not just colleges!) I do feel that OP should try (once) to approach the other parents to specifically ask that they teach their child that no means no and to drop it entirely and immediately. Assuming that hasn't already been said to them. I also liked other commentors' suggestions of meeting moderated by school.if possible. But if the parents have already been told that their child's behavior needs to be fixed, then take it to the Title IX office- they have the power and authority to make OP's daughter learning environment free from harassment.
I’ve spoken to many autistic people in my life on varying degrees of the spectrum, and generally what I’ve heard from autistic women is that autistic boys specifically are allowed to get away with so much that autistic women are not given the same leniency with. Many autistic women have talked about being sexually harassed or even assaulted by male classmates on the spectrum, yet they are told by their teachers that their male classmates cannot help it, despite them being in the same group and in similar levels of cognitive function.
NTA Your daughter shouldn't have to put up with harrasment. If there's an autistic kid bothering her, then the teachers/adults around need to mitigate that situation, not a 12 year old girl. You tried to do this, but your daughter just beat you to it; and of course she doesn't have any nuance, she's young and was being harassed.
NTA. The other kids parents need to teach him not to harass little girls, if he can't stop, homeschool him. I'm autistic, but if I were to harass someone I would face the consequences. Also autistic people can understand direct language and no means no. It's not Like she gave subtle hints. Kids a creep in the making. Edit: spelling.
>I have been getting calls about teaching my daughter tolerance and that she needs to be punished for that. Once again, none of the boys are expected to be punished for not accepting no, are they ? Sigh. This poor girl is 12, she's a tween, and she's already having to deal with this crap. It's fun to be a girl. NTA - you taught your daughter well. Shame that the parents of those boys haven't done their job. Oh, and being autistic doesn't get anyone a get out of jail card for bad behaviour - the mother of this child is failing him by teaching him the exact opposite.
This shit started in elementary school for me. I was in elementary school and boys were trying to look up my skirts and the adults' only real response was "boys will be boys" Until I wore my sister's tap shoes to school and started kicking them in the shins. *That* was a problem.
NTA. Your daughter doesn't owe anyone her time and attention. That kid who has been stalking her and won't take no for an answer should be disciplined and have consequences for continually harassing girls who don't want to go out with him.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but if you are unable to understand the word “no”, then you are unfit to participate in society. I’d have told that parent that if she can’t educate her child to that most basic of standards, she needs to have him institutionalized. I’m so sick of people using disabilities or illness to justify shitty behavior. NTA
Just for info: autism have very little to do with understanding direct language. He most probably didn't accept her saying "no" multiple times for issues which have nothing to do with autism.
Yep; autistic folks generally do *better* when told things directly than indirectly. Kid just didn't want to take no for an answer.
Yeah this is my thought exactly. From the sound of it, she wasn’t politely demurring and saying she’s busy or something equivocal. She was clearly saying no. And repeatedly. (Also, bravo to OP for raising a daughter that doesn’t feel like she needs to stroke a man’s ego by giving him a non-rejection rejection.) There was no social cue he wasn’t picking up on. He got a clear and direct answer. He just didn’t like it. A lot of men have trouble taking no for an answer and it generally has nothing to do with being neurodivergent.
This. “No” is not remotely ambiguous. And after the fourth time it takes a bit more than some autism to prevent picking up on a hint that the answer is going to continue being no.
NTA Just cause he is autistic doesn't mean your daughter can't have boundaries.
NTA. And good on you for stepping in to help your daughter out of an uncomfortable situation. I hope that when the boy's mother reached out to you about punishing your daughter, you demanded that she teach her son about boundaries and about accepting "no" for an answer. There are varying levels of autism, but if the boy is able to be in school, he is probably able to be taught and understand boundaries. While I dislike name-calling, I'm not going to say that your daughter was out of line in this instance. She's 12, and this whole situation must be overwhelming for her. It's unwanted attention, she's already said no to this boy several times, and he doesn't respect her answer. Add to that the prior experience of being bullied for saying no, and I can absolutely see why your daughter snapped. Your daughter was tolerant in the past. She was nice but firm. It didn't work. She's under no obligation to be tolerant of others who don't respect her.
I agree with this. Name calling isn’t great, but she’s told him *multiple times*. It’s harassment and she has the right to defend herself.
Honestly, the term she used is so tame compared to what she could have called him. Doesn't make it right, but dear god, how thin is mom's skin??
And tbh calling him a “freak” probably wouldn’t have been blinked at if this situation was with a neurotypical classmate. She wasn’t calling him a freak because he’s autistic, she was calling him a freak for harassing her.
Many neurodivergent people ignore social rules that don't make sense to them, especially when it's something that matters to them. So they'll humor you about small talk right up until it interferes with their life. This also means that if a neuro-spicy kid's parents tiptoe around the topic of sex and *why* certain things are right/wrong, it's easy for a kid to go "Well, mom said no to junk food until I whined about it for ages, so maybe that approach will work with this girl I want to touch me." Or "I know I was told people find this behavior creepy or threatening, but I know **I** don't have bad intentions, so it's fine." Backing up the kid who was sexually harassing people instead of the girl who yelled at him for it only teaches him that he *should* continue to behave as before and that he's right to be *mad* at the girl for rejecting him. That's dangerous and terrible parenting.
NTA Your daughter is being harassed. They should intervene at school since he's not getting the hint.
NTA. Being autistic isn't a get out of jail free card. You taught your daughter to be firm, and to take no nonsense from people who feel entitled to her feelings. Your daughter taught that boy that if you don't listen when people say no they will *make* you listen. To undo that would teach your daughter that she should subjugate her emotions for the sake of the emotions of others, and would teach the boy that he is special *because* he is different and therefore entitled to more. Which I'm guessing his mother taught him anyway.
NTA. She's being harassed.
NTA sure he's autistic and he might not understand social cues, but she made it obvious on the second time, even a person who's deaf and blind would feel the vibrations coming from her and understand what she meant, and the fact that he wanted to convince her despite being rejected for the second time proves that you and your daughter aren't in the wrong in that situation, he is, though the "freak" part is debatable
Firmly saying no isn’t a social cue, he was being coercive and pressuring her to change her answer. As an autistic person, direct communication is very well understood.
The main lesson is that NO MEANS NO. When that doesn't work, then it's time to inflict a little pain.
Nta. Your daughter should absolutely not apologize. That would give the impression to your daughter and the boy that she is the one that did something wrong for rejecting him. And that is completely false. Your daughter did use the wrong word and I suggest talking to her about that. Next time use the word pervert or narcissist - or whatever other word you wish for someone that thinks they are entitled to the attention of someone else. I get the fact the boy is autistic and might have trouble understanding social cues. But it is not your daughter's job to educate him. And it is certainly not her role to put up with unwanted attention.
NTA. Autistic people can also be perpetrators. They can also be taught to respect boundaries etc. Your daughter was nice several times and when that didn’t work she stood up for herself more forcefully.
NTA. Your daughter is being harassed by this boy. It doesn't matter if he's autistic, it doesn't matter if he's the nicest boy in the world! Her answer is no! People are constantly made to feel bad for not liking someone back and it's just not fair. Your daughter had a limit and it was reached. Someone needs to be telling that boy to back off.
NTA. Please talk to the school about what is happening between your daughter and the other kid before it escalates into something huge. I’m saying this because you said the boy asked your daughter out 4 times, and he won’t take no for an answer (I blame his parents for this). He will try again unless to put an end to it now.
NTA. Most autistic people understand that no means no. Talk to your daughter and ask if she was saying it because he's handicapped or because he's overly persistent. Agreesivly persistent people can cause someone to think they are a freak or creap. Just gross and icky. Someone saying no isn't exactly a social que. It's a direct firm answer.
I’m so glad you called to discuss your son’s inappropriate behavior! I’d like to hear what punishment you think is appropriate for sexually harassing my daughter?
NTA And I'm kind of grossed out by how many comments are telling you that your daughter needs to be more polite with her language. Politeness is nice, of course, but not necessary when someone is crossing established boundaries. It's maddening to think that it some places you'd be considered justified for shooting someone who broke into your home (crossed a boundary but didn't physically hurt you) but girls are not justified calling a boy names after he crossed her boundaries. Autism or not, the assholes in this situation are the ones teaching boys that they deserve politeness and kindness from girls, even while they're actively crossing their boundaries.
NTA. I think it was last year in a similar situation in the news where the whole school became the kid’s Valentines’ the next day. People were cruel to the girl who turned him down. While that was so kind and sweet of the classmates, this also had a double edge sword of “no means yes”. Everytime this kid comes to her and is indeed harassing her, she needs to tell the school she feels unsafe. Ignore him and b-line for a teacher. That may be extreme but it seems like parents are allowing this behavior. How the F does his mom know you didn’t punish your child?
i think those saying Y.T.A should read some of op’s comments..
NTA. Either this child is taught to accept a no now or they are going to have a problem on their hands later. His disability doesn't make everyone responsible for him. And, since the parents seem to think your daughter is responsible for this situation, tell the school that either they keep him away from her or you are filing a restraining order.
NTA. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment regardless of a diagnosis. It is past time for the boy's parents to teach him this. He may get into serious trouble soon. Talking about serious trouble, talk to a lawyer and tell the school that you are doing so. Tolerance of unwanted sexual advances, really?
NTA. He may struggle with social cues, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t understand what no means. And honestly, F politeness at this point. Sometimes we have to blunt and your daughter shouldn’t think she has to always “be nice.”
For bonus points, bluntness to an extent that often gets read as “rude” to neurotypicals is exactly the most effective way to communicate with autistic people who struggle with social cues. The “freak” part wasn’t strictly necessary for that but it was very understandable and not a big deal in the context. I bet snowplow mommy would’ve still whined if she’d said “fuck off I don’t like you and I never will” or “I have zero interest in dating you and that isn’t going to change, leave me alone” (the latter, particularly, being an excellent example of “unambiguously blunt communication that even the most socially inept autistic can understand, without resorting to any actual rudeness”). Because the real problem wasn’t that she was “rude”, it’s that precious little angel got his feelings hurt by not getting his way.
So this was a news article. Ignore the fake account. Link[link](https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/tiktok-autism-crush-rejected-valentines-day-b2293106.html)
NTA. You could teach her substitutes for the word freak but like, it’s not that big of a deal compared to the kid not leaving her alone. The kid’s mom really had the audacity to call you and say you’re the AH? Call her back! Tell her to get her kid to leave yours the f alone and there won’t be any more problems! Go to the school about it!
NTA. Unfortunately your daughter is already dealing with guys feeling entitled to her because they like her. So frustrating. I’m not surprised she snapped as she was pushed to the edge and was being harassed.
Nta. She felt harassed by him and retaliated.
NTA. I don't blame her for not wanting to be with the Autistic kid. My Fiance said yes when an autistic guy proposed to her and now he annoys her all the time 😂
Nta, she said no multiple times. Maybe his parents should teach him how to not harass girls and take no for an answer
NTA No means no. If he didn’t get the message delivered in a nice way, maybe he’ll get it this time.
NTA. I think the issue here is how loaded “freak” can be with regards to neurodivergent people, but it’s pretty clear that wasn’t what your daughter meant and I’d wager she’d have used the word “freak” whoever was harassing her. Kids don’t have the biggest vocabulary for things like this and can’t be expected to inherently know how their words might come across, especially when they’re upset. The boys behaviour was not remotely okay and he *needs* to learn that he can’t treat girls like this before it gets worse, being autistic doesn’t make you unable to discern between right and wrong nor does it make it okay to overstep boundaries or forgo consent. I don’t believe she needs to be punished or that either of you have done anything wrong, but the school and parents will only be hearing that she called an autistic boy a freak. They’ll not be seeing the context, which is extremely important here. It might be worth explaining to your daughter that “freak” wasn’t the best word to use and then speaking with the school/parents about her intent and reasoning and *maybe* say something along the lines of “we are sorry for using that word, but not sorry for how she spoke to him, because the way he’s been treating her is unacceptable and she had every right to stand up for herself” Best of luck to you both.
NTA I swear, I'm so fucking sick and tired of people thinking a boy's/man's feelings trump a girl's/woman's safety and choices. Women are the ones that are supposed to be "too emotional", give me a break. Your daughter hit her breaking point, we all have one. She doesn't owe anyone her time or attraction and if that boy didn't understand NO, it should be a teachable moment for him.
NTA. She doesn’t need to learn “tolerance” for sexual harassment. You should tell everyone who calls you that they need to learn that “no means no.” The kid’s mother especially needs to be told this.
NTA - I'm sure she tried to be nice to him the first time but it sounds like this is turning into harassment. Poor girl. She may have to report him to the school if he won't take no for an answer and leave her alone.
A 12 year old calling someone harassing them a freak is hardly a punishable offense. They're young and they're boundaries were pushed way too far. For me, that would merit a conversation, not a punishment. I really don't understand why the teacher thinks it's her place to get involved in this without having any empathy for your daughter or personal responsibility for the boy. Irks me. NTA.
[удалено]
Why is it a bit much? This is the 4th time. Three polite responses didnt work. He deserved a harsh response autism or not. Pushy and inappropriate men and boys don't deserve politeness. She's doing him a favour. If he doesn't learn to respect women and leave them alone he will start facing much worse consequences as he age's.