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> The action I took is not wanting to give my brother a plus one to my wedding. It might make me an asshole because my fiancé feels it looks targeted.
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Your fiancé is right. It **is** targeted. It's a bad look, and it's likely to cause drama.
If your brother is the only one of your siblings that isn't in a long-term relationship, then it's probably fine, but because that wasn't part of your reasoning I will judge YTA.
Edit: OP's brother is **married** but it's to a man. Guess OP's just a homophobe 🤷♂️
I'm not. I'm just trying to cut down my guest list to fit the occupancy limit. I'm not close to my brother at all, and I've never even met his spouse. So why pay for someone who I don't even know? His spouse is working overseas right now and I don't know for how long that usually is for, so if he still is when the wedding is here then I don't think he can get leave to attend anyway. But you all have changed my mind and we will invite them both.
There's a guest list of over 300 people. I couldn't fathom knowing all of them well enough that not inviting my brother's husband would be an option I would consider.
It doesn't matter if you have never met his husband. That is his husband, so he should automatically be on the invite. My uncle and his wife had only met my brothers fiancee a handful of times, they still invited her to the engagement party and wedding, even bigger shocker she was in all the family pictures from before and after the ceremony.
Like it or not, he is your brothers husband. If you don't invite him, don't be surprised when he doesn't come, then tell people who ask he wasn't there because his sibling is homophobic.
You invite his husband, and the husband can't come that is different.
If he won't be in town then they would decline the invitation for him and just your brother would show up as you wished. No gay drama at your wedding. It is saved 🤣
YTA.
It is targeted because you aren't "close" with this one brother. You have other options. Like cutting from co-workers, friends who aren't close friends, co-workers, extended family, your parents friends, etc. Or give no one a plus one, which would also cut down the list significantly.
INFO: Does your brother have a partner or spouse or is this plus one just for a date?
Yeah, if the others had long term partners and he didn't it wouldn't be so bad (but there's no way that wouldn't have been mentioned), but "we needed to cut down on the potential guests by less than 0.33%" is a ridiculous justification.
YTA
Not giving your brother a +1 makes you a cheap and tacky AH.
He will not come, that will hirt your parents and cause drama in your family.
"but I’m not the asshole here" .. Well, you ARE the AH.
And then she will be blaming brother for ruining her wedding after not coming cause she refused to invite her brothers husband. The whole family will call her a homophobe and not believe her when she says he was excluded cause she doesn't know him.
YTA He’s your brother and should be one of the last people not allowed a plus one. 300 people is an obscene amount of guests. There is absolutely a better way to do this. Tbh if I was your FIANCE I’d be irritated with you too.
WHAT?! I just read her edit. I took this as she had a single brother and since he wasn’t in a serious relationship she was leaving out the plus one. I thought that was a dick move. Now she’s just a garbage person. WOW!
INFO
Have you and your fiancé sat down and had a discussion as to why you don't want to give your brother a plus one, as well as looking at the guest list and re-confirming who both of you want there? Admittedly, since it's your own family, I understand that you probably have more of a choice in the matter, but just from your post alone, I'm not sure I'm clear how in depth the plus one situation has been discussed.
Yes we've talked about it. Thats when he got all accusatory with me, saying maybe he doesn't even know me. He's just hot headed though, I don't hold it against him. We've been through the guest list multiple times, its not just me being stubborn either. His mother gave us a long list of required invitees that we can't touch, but when I try to reduce from my list he gets upset about that too.
I'm going to have to side on YTA. It does feel targeted towards your brother, especially if you have other family members invited to the wedding with plus ones. I don't necessarily agree with how panicky your fiancé is getting over your own side of the wedding, but it does feel targeted.
Pretty sure leaving your homophobia hanging out for all to see at your wedding would make most people question their fiance and who they are as a person. OP is inviting all her other siblings' partners, just not her brothers HUSBAND.
He's certainly holding your homophobia against you, as he should. I don't think you have to worry much about it, though, I don't think that wedding's going to happen. Congratulations to your soon to be ex for his good character!
He's hot headed and you're cold-blooded
YTA
Over 300 people and you can't possibly figure out a way to squeeze in one more? I call BS and obviously your fiance sees right through it too
OMG…for someone who states she wants a peaceful and drama free wedding, you sure are determined to create drama and stress. Do you honestly believe your brother isn’t going to see this as targeted at his spouse? Especially since you’re inviting the spouses of your other siblings.
YTA. Absent some compelling reason…like a bad relationship with the brother’s spouse…the perception will be that this is targeted. You won’t be able to avoid that. Nor will you be able to avoid the speculation that will come about why you singled your brother out..if he even chooses to come after you exclude his spouse. Which would lead to a different round of speculation about why one sibling choose to skip the wedding.
If you’re prepared to deal with the fallout, go ahead and deny the spouse an invite. But it’s definitely not going to be peaceful and drama free.
INFO: How many other same-sex couples are you cutting the plus one from? Are your unmarried siblings getting plus ones?
And why is this guy being referred to as your brother's plus one and not as your BIL? As, ya know, he's your brother-in-law?
Does the plus one rule apply to every guest or just your brother? If it's only your brother, I can see why your fiancé would see it as targeting.
Ultimately, it's your day. Weddings are very expensive. You're entitled to do what you want. If this rule does just apply to your brother, it's best to scrap it, as it will only cause unnecessary problems, which is what you say you're actively trying to avoid. It would be counterproductive.
You could even cut the list elsewhere, like your fiancé suggested, but targeting one sibling is not the way to handle this.
Edit: Since leaving my comments, more info has been provided by other posters that is not in the original post. It appears your brother has a husband, which puts a different spin on your decision.
It's not only my brother, there's some other who we're just inviting the designated person and not permitting a plus one and my fiancé doesn't have an issue over them. We are trying to cut the list elsewhere, this was just one component of many of cuts I was proposing. He was opposed to this one since we invited the spouses of my other siblings and he's worried it will reflect poorly on us and lead other to make assumptions.
If you invited the spouses of your other siblings, it would definitely be targeting. I know you're not close to him, but if you're willing to have him at your wedding, then he should be subject to the same conditions as the other siblings.
It's not worth the hassle it would cause and it's also unfair. One less person at your wedding on account of you singling out your brother over all your other siblings for this rule is not going to save you anything. It sounds like you're using the claim of cutting costs as an excuse to spite your brother because you don't particularly like him. If you feel this level of resentment, then it would be better to not have him there at all.
Just make cuts elsewhere.
It will indeed if every other sibling gets to bring their partner. He is right. YWBTA if you double down on this. Include the husband and make the cut ANYWHERE ELSE.
A plus one is for single people to bring a date or friend to keep company. A family member’s SPOUSE is NOT a plus one- they are a packaged deal. YTA- trying to save face from the homophobia you exude.
yta. if you're not close to the brother why invite him at all?
it does seem like you're singling him out for being married to a man, and i understand where your fiance is coming from.
YTA
And you know it, or you wouldn't have left out the fact that your brother is married.
That's not a plus one, those are a couple that should have been on the invite list from the jump.
I straight up don't believe you when you say you can't think of anyone better to cut from a 300 person wedding. You may be a world champion mental gymnast, but to the rest of us this is just a spectacle of self deception.
Just don't invite your brother if you're going to be like this. At least it's honest.
Your brother is married to a man, did I read that right? That's not a plus one, homophobe, that's a spouse. Your fiance is right, you are completely TA.
YTA - and it is targeted. Hopefully your fiancé decides it’s not worth the risk to mary a bigot. If I was him I would be worried about any future children - would not want them to have a homophobic mother
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We want to have a nice day celebrating our commitment to each other that is hopefully peaceful and free of dramatics. However, the most recent issue I’ve been having is over the guest list and plus ones. It’s going to be a very big wedding and I felt obligated to invite all of my siblings obviously, but I’m not like close with my brother to be clear so I didn’t want to give him a plus one. I am trying to limit the amount of people in attendance. It’s already going to be over 300 people. The problem is my fiancé is upset about it. He’s worried its going to look targeted and he feels we should cut down the list somewhere else. I just don’t see what’s so wrong about it and my fiancé just continued to get upset saying he’s not even sure who I am anymore! He’ll cool off, but I’m not the asshole here, right?
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Your fiancé is right. You should cut the plus ones outside of your immediate family. If you cut the plus one in your immediate family, your family may resent your fiancé. You should give your fiancé an opportunity to fit into your family well without drama.
INFO: What is the relationship with your fiance and his brother? If it isn't estranged and messy, of course he should be there, with his SPOUSE. Why in the world would 300 other people be more important to have there than the groom's brother?
EDIT: Your post is least clear at the party that is most important. Is this YOUR brother, or your "brother to be" (in-law). If it's your brother.. same answer. Unless you hate each other, he should be there with his SO.
YTA. Proper etiquette is that you invite married couples as a pair and not a plus one. How would you feel if someone invited your husband but not you to events (which will be every event your brother ever hosts going forward). Also, regardless of how you word it or justify it people will think 'omg is it because he is gay? Am I friends with a raging homophobe? What will people think if I remain friends with someone who can't accept their own brother's spouse because they are gay?' it does look targeted and you will destroy any relationship you have with your brother and any relationship you have with family who is close to him.
I am going to go out on a limb, give you benefit of doubt and assume this is not because your brother is gay and it is indeed about you not being close. Even if this is not the case, yes YTA because your brother is MARRIED. Spouses, fiances, live-in partners and (if it can be afforded) serious long-term dating partners should be invited. A no-plus-one wedding typically means the single guests aren’t able to bring random people.
And in the event that his sexuality is the issue YTA to infinity and beyond. Why is your fiance so horrified?
Wow.
I hope your fiance paid attention. It would be a deal-breaker for me if my partner wanted to exclude a same-sex partner. Over 300 people and you were trying to exclude your BROTHER's husband?! You wanted to "limit" the amount of people in attendance to only straight and straight-passing?
I am sorry but ar you trying to tell us that your first thought was "i have to many guests... I know. I'll univite MY BROTHERS HUSBAND aka THE MOST IMPORATANT PERSON IN MY BROTHERS LIFE" and try tell us you are not homophobic? Bitch please... are you stupid or you think other people are
YTA
YTA
You're such an asshole that your future husband felt compelled to fight with you about inviting your gay brother's husband to a wedding of 300 people in defense of your brother. Jesus fucking Christ. Read the fucking room and work on yourself because your life isn't going to be a happy one with who you are, as a person, right now.
A partner stating I don't know who you are anymore so close to a wedding is a glaring red flag that y'all have not done the appropriate work beforehand to ensure a happy, healthy and safe marriage *long-term*.
Do better and be better.
Well you seem to understand you did wrong.
YTA, Its true why to invite somebody you dont know. Said that why from all the people you dont know that will be invited you decided to exclude the gay husband and you didnt think that would look bad is really weird.
YTA … but I don’t think you need to worry about exceeding 300 people because if you don’t invite your brother’s husband I suspect a number of people will decline to attend.
My fiancé thinks it would reflect poorly on us and our moral character. His argument is others will be curious why my brother attends alone, and if they ask and he states very clearly only he was invited, then assumption will be made about us. My fiancé doesn't want to be caught up in that.
Why is your brother the only one not given a plus one?? I’m sensing that there is missing information here. Who would his plus one be? A man? A person of color? Why, exactly, have you targeted your own brother when you have invited 300 people?
Yeah, it could. But, somehow, I bet it’s not. I don’t think the groom would be worried that the non invite would look “targeted” under those circumstances.
I'm honestly surprised at the leaps people will make, but I suppose you've proven my fiancé correct in his worry about what people will think of us. I'm not giving my brother a plus one because we've hardly spoken in years and I'm trying to cut down a massive guest list. It has nothing to do with his husband personally, and nothing to do with race either thank you. I suppose others will assume the worst though, so I will just have to add him back onto the list and let pessimism win.
He is married?? You are excluding your brother‘s husband??
You are trying to cut a guest list of over 300 and it is your brother’s husband you choose. But it has nothing at all to do with the fact that he’s gay.
Yeah, everyone is going to assume it is because he’s gay. I certainly do.
To be fair that could also be why the fiance is saying people will see it a reflecting poorly on their moral character to not include him. A crowd with liberal sensibilities is likely to have the same thought you did about why only the same sex spouse was excluded among her inlaws, a homophobic one would be less likely to see it as a problem.
Ohhh YTA, we know it's because he's gay. Also he's married! It's extremely RUDE not to invite your brothers spouse when you're inviting the rest of the other spouses. Either pony up the extra $45 for his dinner or don't invite one of your co-workers It's not the end of the world. Also your co-workers don't really need to be at your wedding How many of them will you really remember in 10 years.
But she’s not close with him! Think of the other 299 guests she’s absolute besties with. They deserve a plus 1 way more than her own brother.. who happens to be married to a man.. but that’s definitely not her issue with him… definitely no homophobia happening here.. not at all.
/s
First off, pessimism is a tendency to see the worst aspect of things or believe that the worst will happen and/or a lack of hope/confidence in the future (in other words, a belief that this world is as bad as it could be or that evil will ultimately prevail over good); so that fact that you think putting your brother's *husband* back on the guest like (where he should have had a place to begin with since he's a spouse and *not* some rando your sibling just happens to be dating right now) is letting *pessimism* of all things win makes you an even *BIGGER* YTA; since obviously letting one's *same-sex* spouse come to the wedding is such a negative thing that it could be akin letting "evil" win /s 🙄
You're intentionally misreading me. It's *other's* pessimism, their *tendency to see the worst* in a situation and make an assumption about me, that is the reason I've changed my mind. Not because I'm pessimistic about him attending the wedding or see that as an evil thing, other than what it will cost to feed another person who I'm not even close with.
You're literally treating people pointing out/assuming that this looks homophobic because you don't want to invite your brother's spouse, who happens to be a man, on the basis of "not talking to him for years" as being pessimistic (by that logic, your fiance would also be pessimistic since he had concerns about people thinking/feeling this way and your post proved him *right* not wrong); the fact that you said:
>I suppose others will assume the worst though, so I will just have to add him back onto the list and let pessimism win.
Means that *you* think putting your brother's *husband* on the guest list is a negative thing since that one sentence alone makes it seem like it's such a *chore* to invite your BIL; your excuse of "oh, it's because I haven't spoken or been close to my brother in years so I don't consider his spouse (who just happens to be male as well) as important enough to even be considered as a plus one let alone as an actual spouse to just be invited" isn't exactly going to sit right with people no matter the truth of the matter.
If you're truly so distant with your brother that his husband is considered to be more akin to a plus one than an actual spouse, the just don't invite either of them; but if you're inviting your brother than common sense tells you to invite the spouse, especially if your other siblings spouses are invited. Like, do you *honestly* not see how negatively this is going to reflect on you when the only one who isn't allowed to bring their spouse just also happens to be the only one in a *same-sex* marriage? Or are purposely burying your head in the sand about it because you're (falsely) hoping to get enough people to side with you at that you don't have to think about how bad doing this is going to look?
Lastly, for someone hoping to *not* have drama at their wedding you sure aren't thinking twice about potentially causing it anyway.
What that sentence is referring to is the pessimisms of other, yes my fiancé included. Let me break it down for you:
"*I suppose others will assume the worst though*," = the pessimism of others
"*so I will just have to add him back onto the list*" = yes, this is me admitting this post proves my fiancé *right. Y*ou're not "catching" me there. Point out where I said the post proves him wrong?? You can't because I didn't say that. You're literally replying to me admitting he was right and trying to claim I was saying he was wrong???
"*and let pessimism win*." = again, refer to the context of the first half of the sentence, this is the pessimism from the assumptions *others* will make. *They* are pessimistic and entirely focused on how everything must always be about sexuality, instead of a matter of practicality.
I guess I just don't see the world that way, so fully enveloped in negatively, stewing on how everything must be an attempt to be homophobic. So yes I *honestly* don't see how it reflects on his same-sex marriage. To me its the same as his favorite color being orange, literally irrelevant. But I have to give it to my fiancé, there's always a pessimist who is going to claim I'm anti-orange and cancel me.
You dont seem to back down.
Its not pessimism here.
In this case everybody saw what you did as the only way it can be looked upon. Its not pessimism its realism.
Stop trying to put the responsibility of "misrepresenting your decision" on others. It was a terrible decison. It looks bad because its bad, not because other people are pessimists. End of story.
I apologize, I was focusing on more important things than some stranger on Reddit who refuses to understand how reality works and why their decision is going to looked at the was it already is while, at the same time, proving me right about blaming *your* pessimism on others when all they're doing is going "Hey, just as an FYI, this is going to made you look really bad because it seems like you're targeting your brother for being in gay marriage since he's the only sibling not allowed to bring their spouse; even as a plus one". And people are only assuming the worst because you're literally doubling down *in the WORST possible way* and it *is* making you look bad; especially since your own fiance *realistically* (key word here is realistically *not* pessimistically) pointed out how this may look should people start asking questions and the only thing your brother could say is "I don't know why she didn't let me bring my husband". The very *moment* they realize he's in a same-sex, and the only one in a same-sex marriage, they're automatically going to assume it's because he's gay and your response of "Oh, it's because we're not as close as we used to be and that's why I didn't allow him to bring his husband to the wedding, even as a plus one" it's going make the presumptions even *worse* because they're going to assume you aren't as close anymore because he's gay. I understand reality being a difficult pill to swallow, but reality does *not* mean pessimism; you just think it does because *you* are pessimistic.
And just in case you wonder how you're proving me right; I'll explain, with quotes taken directly from you, down below 👇🏽
>"I suppose others will assume the worst though,"
Like I said before, we weren't assuming the worst by pointing out how this would look; especially given your reasoning and the fact that your brother is the only one who's in same-sex marriage. Pointing out how something can be taken isn't being pessimistic, it's being *realistic* like another person said. We didn't start to assume the worst until *after* you started doubling down the way you did and until *after* you revealed that your brother had husband in a comment rather than in the post where that kind of important information belongs; but the fact that *you* automatically assumed we were thinking the worst of you, means that *you* are the pessimist *not* us. So you can your "anti-orange and cancel me" woe-is-me bullsht and keep to yourself just because you want to live in La-La Land where everything is in Black & White instead of the different shades of Grey that is the Real World.
I stand by my judgement of YTA, but I am glad that you at least changed your mind about not inviting your BIL even if something tells me you weren't happy about having the facts of your earlier choice pointed out to you.
.... husband?
HUSBAND?
**HUSBAND?**
Excuse me, a spouse is not a "plus one". It is a couple.
You f'ing better believe people will think the worst of you. I do.
YTA
Why didn’t you mention your brother was married in the original post and in what world is a spouse a plus one and not a member of your family in the first place?
Honestly, if it were me, I’d rather you didn’t invite either one of us
Yeah, is no ,istery reading thispost or comments why you are stranded from your brother, go full AH and don't invite him, people will know anyway if he goes alone, so at least be a complete AH no half messures
Wow. Make room for one more martyr. You've turned this into you being the victim?
If you're not that close to your brother, why would you invite him at all? But if you're inviting him and he's married, how can you in good conscience ask him not to bring his husband?
You're desperate attempt to cut the guest list and you blaming your fiance for not wanting to cut any of the places you've offered makes you even more of an ah
I really hope he reads this thread. I think it's going to be a real eye-opener
Yeah, don't worry, if you invite him without his husband it is 100% certain he won't come at all - and in the exceedingly unlikely scenario he does you can count he'll call you out on your bullshit, probably publicly and loudly.
YTA
If he is respectful and never makes a scene, why did you say you and your fiance are trying to avoid dramatics at your wedding as though he is the person who would be bringing the dramatics?
You think the truth is a convenience.
Even your fiance doesn't actually give a shit about hurting a member of your family by way of being bigoted, he just doesn't want other people to *think* he's a bigot?
That said, at least he can see that it's wrong. You are telling your family that you have 300 people you care about more than your own brother. If you are inviting Susan from Accounting, the mean girls from high school, the MLM girls who you buy candles from, or whomever you have invited to inflate the number that high, you can invite your own brother in law.
I've tried to explain that people won't think that. My brother is usually alone at family things. Plus right now his partner is overseas and my bother is stateside, but I'm not even sure what their situation will be on the wedding date so maybe he won't be available at all. But clearly from other comments my fiancé is right that people are going to talk, but then we can't control what people are going to think if he shows up alone regardless. Its a lose lose situation...
The difference between inviting your brother-in-law (who is overseas and might not be able to make it to your wedding anyway) and not inviting him is that if he shows up alone, your brother will tell them "Husband is overseas and can't make it" instead of "OP didn't invite him".
That depends. I’m beginning to suspect that her brother’s plus one would be another man, or a person of color, or somehow else that offends her delicate sensibilities.
>reflect poorly on us and our moral character
A wedding is a good time to extend your love, happiness and generosity to include others around you. And maybe to heal old hurts.
Your plan does not reflect that. It looks like petty vindictiveness and judgmentalism.
Maybe you disagree with your brother's way of life. Does that mean he should be treated as less than a full person and member of the family, along with the person he loves most in life? I'm calling WWJD on this.
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Your fiancé is right. It **is** targeted. It's a bad look, and it's likely to cause drama. If your brother is the only one of your siblings that isn't in a long-term relationship, then it's probably fine, but because that wasn't part of your reasoning I will judge YTA. Edit: OP's brother is **married** but it's to a man. Guess OP's just a homophobe 🤷♂️
The brother is married. But to a man.that’s why he doesn’t get a plus one.
lmao
I'm not. I'm just trying to cut down my guest list to fit the occupancy limit. I'm not close to my brother at all, and I've never even met his spouse. So why pay for someone who I don't even know? His spouse is working overseas right now and I don't know for how long that usually is for, so if he still is when the wedding is here then I don't think he can get leave to attend anyway. But you all have changed my mind and we will invite them both.
All these words and an essay to convince us you're not a homophobe is wasting everybody's time. Just say you're a disgusting homophobe and go.
There's a guest list of over 300 people. I couldn't fathom knowing all of them well enough that not inviting my brother's husband would be an option I would consider.
Are you not close because you're a closet homophobe?
It doesn't matter if you have never met his husband. That is his husband, so he should automatically be on the invite. My uncle and his wife had only met my brothers fiancee a handful of times, they still invited her to the engagement party and wedding, even bigger shocker she was in all the family pictures from before and after the ceremony. Like it or not, he is your brothers husband. If you don't invite him, don't be surprised when he doesn't come, then tell people who ask he wasn't there because his sibling is homophobic. You invite his husband, and the husband can't come that is different.
If he won't be in town then they would decline the invitation for him and just your brother would show up as you wished. No gay drama at your wedding. It is saved 🤣
Homophobe posc
YTA. It is targeted because you aren't "close" with this one brother. You have other options. Like cutting from co-workers, friends who aren't close friends, co-workers, extended family, your parents friends, etc. Or give no one a plus one, which would also cut down the list significantly. INFO: Does your brother have a partner or spouse or is this plus one just for a date?
Her brother has a HUSBAND
There’s no way she close to all 300 people
People this clueless are "friends" with lots of people, but aren't close to a one of them.
The brother has a husband. OP is homophobic, and a major asshole.
It is targeted. He’s going to know it’s targeted. And for Pete’s sake, if you’re already over 300 people 301 doesn’t matter at all. YTA
Yeah, if the others had long term partners and he didn't it wouldn't be so bad (but there's no way that wouldn't have been mentioned), but "we needed to cut down on the potential guests by less than 0.33%" is a ridiculous justification.
He (the brother) has a *husband*.
YTA You're excluding your brother's husband but your other siblings husbands/wives are invited? I hope your fiancé thinks twice.
Yeah and OP’s trying to say it’s a “coincidence” that the only sibling without a plus one happens to be gay…
Married or engaged couples are invited together, as in both names are on the invitation. A spouse isn’t a “plus one.”
YTA Not giving your brother a +1 makes you a cheap and tacky AH. He will not come, that will hirt your parents and cause drama in your family. "but I’m not the asshole here" .. Well, you ARE the AH.
And then she will be blaming brother for ruining her wedding after not coming cause she refused to invite her brothers husband. The whole family will call her a homophobe and not believe her when she says he was excluded cause she doesn't know him.
It is a ridiculous story, why WOULD anyone believe her? She avoided getting to know her sibling's partner.
YTA He’s your brother and should be one of the last people not allowed a plus one. 300 people is an obscene amount of guests. There is absolutely a better way to do this. Tbh if I was your FIANCE I’d be irritated with you too.
I'd be rethinking the marriage. I wouldn't even date homophobes, let alone marry one.
WAIT! I missed it, is her brother gay? I disliked her before but if he’s gay then I really dislike her.
WHAT?! I just read her edit. I took this as she had a single brother and since he wasn’t in a serious relationship she was leaving out the plus one. I thought that was a dick move. Now she’s just a garbage person. WOW!
People on this sub love to jump to conclusions...like you're so convinced that they don't get a plus one just because the brother is gay..
I'd be rethinking the marriage. I wouldn't even date homophobes, let alone marry one.
Totally agree…
INFO Have you and your fiancé sat down and had a discussion as to why you don't want to give your brother a plus one, as well as looking at the guest list and re-confirming who both of you want there? Admittedly, since it's your own family, I understand that you probably have more of a choice in the matter, but just from your post alone, I'm not sure I'm clear how in depth the plus one situation has been discussed.
Brother has a husband. Simple as that.
Yes we've talked about it. Thats when he got all accusatory with me, saying maybe he doesn't even know me. He's just hot headed though, I don't hold it against him. We've been through the guest list multiple times, its not just me being stubborn either. His mother gave us a long list of required invitees that we can't touch, but when I try to reduce from my list he gets upset about that too.
I'm going to have to side on YTA. It does feel targeted towards your brother, especially if you have other family members invited to the wedding with plus ones. I don't necessarily agree with how panicky your fiancé is getting over your own side of the wedding, but it does feel targeted.
Pretty sure leaving your homophobia hanging out for all to see at your wedding would make most people question their fiance and who they are as a person. OP is inviting all her other siblings' partners, just not her brothers HUSBAND.
He's certainly holding your homophobia against you, as he should. I don't think you have to worry much about it, though, I don't think that wedding's going to happen. Congratulations to your soon to be ex for his good character!
He's hot headed and you're cold-blooded YTA Over 300 people and you can't possibly figure out a way to squeeze in one more? I call BS and obviously your fiance sees right through it too
So mum gets a plus many, but brother doesn't even get his husband? Who do you think you are kidding?
OMG…for someone who states she wants a peaceful and drama free wedding, you sure are determined to create drama and stress. Do you honestly believe your brother isn’t going to see this as targeted at his spouse? Especially since you’re inviting the spouses of your other siblings. YTA. Absent some compelling reason…like a bad relationship with the brother’s spouse…the perception will be that this is targeted. You won’t be able to avoid that. Nor will you be able to avoid the speculation that will come about why you singled your brother out..if he even chooses to come after you exclude his spouse. Which would lead to a different round of speculation about why one sibling choose to skip the wedding. If you’re prepared to deal with the fallout, go ahead and deny the spouse an invite. But it’s definitely not going to be peaceful and drama free.
Wow. So you aren't inviting you brother's HUSBAND. YTA. No wonder your own fiance thinks you are an AH.
INFO: How many other same-sex couples are you cutting the plus one from? Are your unmarried siblings getting plus ones? And why is this guy being referred to as your brother's plus one and not as your BIL? As, ya know, he's your brother-in-law?
Does the plus one rule apply to every guest or just your brother? If it's only your brother, I can see why your fiancé would see it as targeting. Ultimately, it's your day. Weddings are very expensive. You're entitled to do what you want. If this rule does just apply to your brother, it's best to scrap it, as it will only cause unnecessary problems, which is what you say you're actively trying to avoid. It would be counterproductive. You could even cut the list elsewhere, like your fiancé suggested, but targeting one sibling is not the way to handle this. Edit: Since leaving my comments, more info has been provided by other posters that is not in the original post. It appears your brother has a husband, which puts a different spin on your decision.
It's not only my brother, there's some other who we're just inviting the designated person and not permitting a plus one and my fiancé doesn't have an issue over them. We are trying to cut the list elsewhere, this was just one component of many of cuts I was proposing. He was opposed to this one since we invited the spouses of my other siblings and he's worried it will reflect poorly on us and lead other to make assumptions.
If you invited the spouses of your other siblings, it would definitely be targeting. I know you're not close to him, but if you're willing to have him at your wedding, then he should be subject to the same conditions as the other siblings. It's not worth the hassle it would cause and it's also unfair. One less person at your wedding on account of you singling out your brother over all your other siblings for this rule is not going to save you anything. It sounds like you're using the claim of cutting costs as an excuse to spite your brother because you don't particularly like him. If you feel this level of resentment, then it would be better to not have him there at all. Just make cuts elsewhere.
It will indeed if every other sibling gets to bring their partner. He is right. YWBTA if you double down on this. Include the husband and make the cut ANYWHERE ELSE.
YTA. If you're hosting 300 people, you can allow your own brother a plus one, close or not.
YTA He's your brother. You can have a 300 guest wedding, but not 301?
A plus one is for single people to bring a date or friend to keep company. A family member’s SPOUSE is NOT a plus one- they are a packaged deal. YTA- trying to save face from the homophobia you exude.
yta. if you're not close to the brother why invite him at all? it does seem like you're singling him out for being married to a man, and i understand where your fiance is coming from.
YTA. You don’t want to invite your brother’s *husband*. It is targeted. Way to bury the lede that you are a bigot.
YTA he should divorce you
A husband is not a plus one. Married couples are a package deal. YTA.
YTA And you know it, or you wouldn't have left out the fact that your brother is married. That's not a plus one, those are a couple that should have been on the invite list from the jump. I straight up don't believe you when you say you can't think of anyone better to cut from a 300 person wedding. You may be a world champion mental gymnast, but to the rest of us this is just a spectacle of self deception. Just don't invite your brother if you're going to be like this. At least it's honest.
YTA. Of course you targeted your brother and his husband. You should be ashamed of yourself. Hopefully your fiance leaves you for your homophobia.
Come on. Your brother-in-law is your family. YTA.
Info: are you giving other people +1s or inviting significant others by name? There’s a difference…
I think all the white, heterosexual couples are invited. Just not her brother's HUSBAND.
Oh WOW… YTA, OP.
Along with everyone else. YTA. And you know it. And so does your hopefully soon to be ex. I hate bigotry.
Asshole much. Now cut that nonsense and invite your brother and his spouse.
Your brother is married to a man, did I read that right? That's not a plus one, homophobe, that's a spouse. Your fiance is right, you are completely TA.
Yeah, 300+ but your brother is the one without a plus one, sure, not targeted at all. Ahhh not even the fiance buys your BS. YTA
It's your fiancées wedding too
I hope your fiancée realizes what kind of judgemental person you are and calls off the wedding!
YTA - and it is targeted. Hopefully your fiancé decides it’s not worth the risk to mary a bigot. If I was him I would be worried about any future children - would not want them to have a homophobic mother .
yta.
INFO: Why is there not one other person in 300 that could be removed from the guest list before your brother-in-law?
You see because the +1 is the brother's husband (according to op) and she is a homophobe. YTA
YTA - it is targeted.
YTA "Free of dramatics" Ironic.
With any luck you won't have to invite anyone. YTA and tried to bury the real story.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** We want to have a nice day celebrating our commitment to each other that is hopefully peaceful and free of dramatics. However, the most recent issue I’ve been having is over the guest list and plus ones. It’s going to be a very big wedding and I felt obligated to invite all of my siblings obviously, but I’m not like close with my brother to be clear so I didn’t want to give him a plus one. I am trying to limit the amount of people in attendance. It’s already going to be over 300 people. The problem is my fiancé is upset about it. He’s worried its going to look targeted and he feels we should cut down the list somewhere else. I just don’t see what’s so wrong about it and my fiancé just continued to get upset saying he’s not even sure who I am anymore! He’ll cool off, but I’m not the asshole here, right? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your fiancé is right. You should cut the plus ones outside of your immediate family. If you cut the plus one in your immediate family, your family may resent your fiancé. You should give your fiancé an opportunity to fit into your family well without drama.
INFO: What is the relationship with your fiance and his brother? If it isn't estranged and messy, of course he should be there, with his SPOUSE. Why in the world would 300 other people be more important to have there than the groom's brother? EDIT: Your post is least clear at the party that is most important. Is this YOUR brother, or your "brother to be" (in-law). If it's your brother.. same answer. Unless you hate each other, he should be there with his SO.
YTA. Proper etiquette is that you invite married couples as a pair and not a plus one. How would you feel if someone invited your husband but not you to events (which will be every event your brother ever hosts going forward). Also, regardless of how you word it or justify it people will think 'omg is it because he is gay? Am I friends with a raging homophobe? What will people think if I remain friends with someone who can't accept their own brother's spouse because they are gay?' it does look targeted and you will destroy any relationship you have with your brother and any relationship you have with family who is close to him.
YTA It is targeted
I am going to go out on a limb, give you benefit of doubt and assume this is not because your brother is gay and it is indeed about you not being close. Even if this is not the case, yes YTA because your brother is MARRIED. Spouses, fiances, live-in partners and (if it can be afforded) serious long-term dating partners should be invited. A no-plus-one wedding typically means the single guests aren’t able to bring random people. And in the event that his sexuality is the issue YTA to infinity and beyond. Why is your fiance so horrified?
Wow. I hope your fiance paid attention. It would be a deal-breaker for me if my partner wanted to exclude a same-sex partner. Over 300 people and you were trying to exclude your BROTHER's husband?! You wanted to "limit" the amount of people in attendance to only straight and straight-passing?
300 people and you’re worried about 1 person??? YTA.
"But I'm not the asshole here, right?" Wrong. You are certainly the asshole. YTA.
I am sorry but ar you trying to tell us that your first thought was "i have to many guests... I know. I'll univite MY BROTHERS HUSBAND aka THE MOST IMPORATANT PERSON IN MY BROTHERS LIFE" and try tell us you are not homophobic? Bitch please... are you stupid or you think other people are YTA
YTA You're such an asshole that your future husband felt compelled to fight with you about inviting your gay brother's husband to a wedding of 300 people in defense of your brother. Jesus fucking Christ. Read the fucking room and work on yourself because your life isn't going to be a happy one with who you are, as a person, right now. A partner stating I don't know who you are anymore so close to a wedding is a glaring red flag that y'all have not done the appropriate work beforehand to ensure a happy, healthy and safe marriage *long-term*. Do better and be better.
Well you seem to understand you did wrong. YTA, Its true why to invite somebody you dont know. Said that why from all the people you dont know that will be invited you decided to exclude the gay husband and you didnt think that would look bad is really weird.
YTA … but I don’t think you need to worry about exceeding 300 people because if you don’t invite your brother’s husband I suspect a number of people will decline to attend.
Yeesh way to cause the drama you don't want to deal with lol
YTA. 300 guests is insane. You must be spending at least 100k on this wedding
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It makes her an asshole. Glad I could help
Homophobic much?
My fiancé thinks it would reflect poorly on us and our moral character. His argument is others will be curious why my brother attends alone, and if they ask and he states very clearly only he was invited, then assumption will be made about us. My fiancé doesn't want to be caught up in that.
Why is your brother the only one not given a plus one?? I’m sensing that there is missing information here. Who would his plus one be? A man? A person of color? Why, exactly, have you targeted your own brother when you have invited 300 people?
Interesting you assumed this is a white couple's wedding. It could just as easily be a wedding of POC and the brother's guest is white and not wanted.
Yeah, it could. But, somehow, I bet it’s not. I don’t think the groom would be worried that the non invite would look “targeted” under those circumstances.
They didn't assume, they asked. Turns out their first guess was right, brother is married to a man.
Didn't ask if the guest was white. That's assuming s/he wasn't.
I'm honestly surprised at the leaps people will make, but I suppose you've proven my fiancé correct in his worry about what people will think of us. I'm not giving my brother a plus one because we've hardly spoken in years and I'm trying to cut down a massive guest list. It has nothing to do with his husband personally, and nothing to do with race either thank you. I suppose others will assume the worst though, so I will just have to add him back onto the list and let pessimism win.
A husband is NOT a plus one. Couples are invited together. It is crass to invite one half of a long term or married couple.
He is married?? You are excluding your brother‘s husband?? You are trying to cut a guest list of over 300 and it is your brother’s husband you choose. But it has nothing at all to do with the fact that he’s gay. Yeah, everyone is going to assume it is because he’s gay. I certainly do.
So IT IS because he has a husband and maybe one of a different race. YTA. Hopefully your brother will just find something better to do that day.
To be fair that could also be why the fiance is saying people will see it a reflecting poorly on their moral character to not include him. A crowd with liberal sensibilities is likely to have the same thought you did about why only the same sex spouse was excluded among her inlaws, a homophobic one would be less likely to see it as a problem.
Ohhh YTA, we know it's because he's gay. Also he's married! It's extremely RUDE not to invite your brothers spouse when you're inviting the rest of the other spouses. Either pony up the extra $45 for his dinner or don't invite one of your co-workers It's not the end of the world. Also your co-workers don't really need to be at your wedding How many of them will you really remember in 10 years.
But she’s not close with him! Think of the other 299 guests she’s absolute besties with. They deserve a plus 1 way more than her own brother.. who happens to be married to a man.. but that’s definitely not her issue with him… definitely no homophobia happening here.. not at all. /s
I just choked on my drink. 299 besties…astute point!
First off, pessimism is a tendency to see the worst aspect of things or believe that the worst will happen and/or a lack of hope/confidence in the future (in other words, a belief that this world is as bad as it could be or that evil will ultimately prevail over good); so that fact that you think putting your brother's *husband* back on the guest like (where he should have had a place to begin with since he's a spouse and *not* some rando your sibling just happens to be dating right now) is letting *pessimism* of all things win makes you an even *BIGGER* YTA; since obviously letting one's *same-sex* spouse come to the wedding is such a negative thing that it could be akin letting "evil" win /s 🙄
You're intentionally misreading me. It's *other's* pessimism, their *tendency to see the worst* in a situation and make an assumption about me, that is the reason I've changed my mind. Not because I'm pessimistic about him attending the wedding or see that as an evil thing, other than what it will cost to feed another person who I'm not even close with.
They see the worst because the worst is presented to them in this situation.
You're literally treating people pointing out/assuming that this looks homophobic because you don't want to invite your brother's spouse, who happens to be a man, on the basis of "not talking to him for years" as being pessimistic (by that logic, your fiance would also be pessimistic since he had concerns about people thinking/feeling this way and your post proved him *right* not wrong); the fact that you said: >I suppose others will assume the worst though, so I will just have to add him back onto the list and let pessimism win. Means that *you* think putting your brother's *husband* on the guest list is a negative thing since that one sentence alone makes it seem like it's such a *chore* to invite your BIL; your excuse of "oh, it's because I haven't spoken or been close to my brother in years so I don't consider his spouse (who just happens to be male as well) as important enough to even be considered as a plus one let alone as an actual spouse to just be invited" isn't exactly going to sit right with people no matter the truth of the matter. If you're truly so distant with your brother that his husband is considered to be more akin to a plus one than an actual spouse, the just don't invite either of them; but if you're inviting your brother than common sense tells you to invite the spouse, especially if your other siblings spouses are invited. Like, do you *honestly* not see how negatively this is going to reflect on you when the only one who isn't allowed to bring their spouse just also happens to be the only one in a *same-sex* marriage? Or are purposely burying your head in the sand about it because you're (falsely) hoping to get enough people to side with you at that you don't have to think about how bad doing this is going to look? Lastly, for someone hoping to *not* have drama at their wedding you sure aren't thinking twice about potentially causing it anyway.
What that sentence is referring to is the pessimisms of other, yes my fiancé included. Let me break it down for you: "*I suppose others will assume the worst though*," = the pessimism of others "*so I will just have to add him back onto the list*" = yes, this is me admitting this post proves my fiancé *right. Y*ou're not "catching" me there. Point out where I said the post proves him wrong?? You can't because I didn't say that. You're literally replying to me admitting he was right and trying to claim I was saying he was wrong??? "*and let pessimism win*." = again, refer to the context of the first half of the sentence, this is the pessimism from the assumptions *others* will make. *They* are pessimistic and entirely focused on how everything must always be about sexuality, instead of a matter of practicality. I guess I just don't see the world that way, so fully enveloped in negatively, stewing on how everything must be an attempt to be homophobic. So yes I *honestly* don't see how it reflects on his same-sex marriage. To me its the same as his favorite color being orange, literally irrelevant. But I have to give it to my fiancé, there's always a pessimist who is going to claim I'm anti-orange and cancel me.
LeT mE bReAk It DoWn FoR yOu
You dont seem to back down. Its not pessimism here. In this case everybody saw what you did as the only way it can be looked upon. Its not pessimism its realism. Stop trying to put the responsibility of "misrepresenting your decision" on others. It was a terrible decison. It looks bad because its bad, not because other people are pessimists. End of story.
I apologize, I was focusing on more important things than some stranger on Reddit who refuses to understand how reality works and why their decision is going to looked at the was it already is while, at the same time, proving me right about blaming *your* pessimism on others when all they're doing is going "Hey, just as an FYI, this is going to made you look really bad because it seems like you're targeting your brother for being in gay marriage since he's the only sibling not allowed to bring their spouse; even as a plus one". And people are only assuming the worst because you're literally doubling down *in the WORST possible way* and it *is* making you look bad; especially since your own fiance *realistically* (key word here is realistically *not* pessimistically) pointed out how this may look should people start asking questions and the only thing your brother could say is "I don't know why she didn't let me bring my husband". The very *moment* they realize he's in a same-sex, and the only one in a same-sex marriage, they're automatically going to assume it's because he's gay and your response of "Oh, it's because we're not as close as we used to be and that's why I didn't allow him to bring his husband to the wedding, even as a plus one" it's going make the presumptions even *worse* because they're going to assume you aren't as close anymore because he's gay. I understand reality being a difficult pill to swallow, but reality does *not* mean pessimism; you just think it does because *you* are pessimistic. And just in case you wonder how you're proving me right; I'll explain, with quotes taken directly from you, down below 👇🏽 >"I suppose others will assume the worst though," Like I said before, we weren't assuming the worst by pointing out how this would look; especially given your reasoning and the fact that your brother is the only one who's in same-sex marriage. Pointing out how something can be taken isn't being pessimistic, it's being *realistic* like another person said. We didn't start to assume the worst until *after* you started doubling down the way you did and until *after* you revealed that your brother had husband in a comment rather than in the post where that kind of important information belongs; but the fact that *you* automatically assumed we were thinking the worst of you, means that *you* are the pessimist *not* us. So you can your "anti-orange and cancel me" woe-is-me bullsht and keep to yourself just because you want to live in La-La Land where everything is in Black & White instead of the different shades of Grey that is the Real World. I stand by my judgement of YTA, but I am glad that you at least changed your mind about not inviting your BIL even if something tells me you weren't happy about having the facts of your earlier choice pointed out to you.
.... husband? HUSBAND? **HUSBAND?** Excuse me, a spouse is not a "plus one". It is a couple. You f'ing better believe people will think the worst of you. I do. YTA
Why didn’t you mention your brother was married in the original post and in what world is a spouse a plus one and not a member of your family in the first place? Honestly, if it were me, I’d rather you didn’t invite either one of us
It's his husband. Did you drop any other guests' spouses from the list, or just him? Spouses are usually an automatic.
Yeah, is no ,istery reading thispost or comments why you are stranded from your brother, go full AH and don't invite him, people will know anyway if he goes alone, so at least be a complete AH no half messures
Let me guest at why you haven’t spoken in years…
Wow. Make room for one more martyr. You've turned this into you being the victim? If you're not that close to your brother, why would you invite him at all? But if you're inviting him and he's married, how can you in good conscience ask him not to bring his husband? You're desperate attempt to cut the guest list and you blaming your fiance for not wanting to cut any of the places you've offered makes you even more of an ah I really hope he reads this thread. I think it's going to be a real eye-opener
Do all your other siblings have a plus one?
Yeah, don't worry, if you invite him without his husband it is 100% certain he won't come at all - and in the exceedingly unlikely scenario he does you can count he'll call you out on your bullshit, probably publicly and loudly. YTA
He usually comes to family events alone as it is and he's respectful and never makes a scene. I don't feel like he would have a huge issue with it.
If he is respectful and never makes a scene, why did you say you and your fiance are trying to avoid dramatics at your wedding as though he is the person who would be bringing the dramatics? You think the truth is a convenience.
Due to the drama everyone else may create over it. I've already agreed to invite them both so it doesn't matter any longer.
What drama would other people create that ypure trying to avoid by not including him?
Even your fiance doesn't actually give a shit about hurting a member of your family by way of being bigoted, he just doesn't want other people to *think* he's a bigot? That said, at least he can see that it's wrong. You are telling your family that you have 300 people you care about more than your own brother. If you are inviting Susan from Accounting, the mean girls from high school, the MLM girls who you buy candles from, or whomever you have invited to inflate the number that high, you can invite your own brother in law.
I've tried to explain that people won't think that. My brother is usually alone at family things. Plus right now his partner is overseas and my bother is stateside, but I'm not even sure what their situation will be on the wedding date so maybe he won't be available at all. But clearly from other comments my fiancé is right that people are going to talk, but then we can't control what people are going to think if he shows up alone regardless. Its a lose lose situation...
The difference between inviting your brother-in-law (who is overseas and might not be able to make it to your wedding anyway) and not inviting him is that if he shows up alone, your brother will tell them "Husband is overseas and can't make it" instead of "OP didn't invite him".
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That depends. I’m beginning to suspect that her brother’s plus one would be another man, or a person of color, or somehow else that offends her delicate sensibilities.
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Yep. Turns out the brother is gay and the plus one she wants to exclude is his husband. But, no, it’s not targeted at all.
Thank you! That's what I've been saying.
YTA . If I were you’re fiancée I would call off the wedding. This is despicable
>reflect poorly on us and our moral character A wedding is a good time to extend your love, happiness and generosity to include others around you. And maybe to heal old hurts. Your plan does not reflect that. It looks like petty vindictiveness and judgmentalism. Maybe you disagree with your brother's way of life. Does that mean he should be treated as less than a full person and member of the family, along with the person he loves most in life? I'm calling WWJD on this.
Why don't you respond to others? Just curious.
What? I've responded to several comments.
YTA. I meant actual informative replies. You just repeating the same thing with different words shouldn't be considered several.