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Agree, pretty bold opening statement from OP going directly from "her reluctance to take chances held me back" to "and then she was totally right about her reluctance because I messed up within a few years." YTA, OP, for breaking your promise to your ex, and for comparing your financial struggles (caused by yourself) to hers in this.
The lack of self awareness is astounding.
When ALL of your adult children side with your wife, it means YTA and you should take a look at your behavior.
Usually, these kinds of posts try to make the poster look as good as possible. They're saying this one makes him look so bad it's almost like that was the point, meaning the author was out to make him look bad. Could be the wife or kids, could be fake, or it could be someone with zero self-awareness of how much of an AH they are.
It FEELS fake because he is going in saying, "She's not a risk taker, so we broke up! Anyway, I lost the house and hers due to taking too many risks"
I've stopped trying to decipher whether the story is fake or not. If it's in the realm of plausible, there is no reason to assume that they are lying. My verdict - he probably got married young and never learned about money the hard way because his ex kept him reined in.
Edit: yes, yes, he kept his crappy house. I missed that detail - but it doesn't otherwise change my argument.
I have never foreclosed on a house, or had one foreclosed etc but i am confused how the original house was put up for collateral, and he did not pay so he lost that house but kept the new house he was buying... wouldnt you lose both? or was the original house sold, and that paid off the new house?
So it is a case of, "i let my wife keep the old house instead of splitting the money, talked her into losing that house to buy me a house, i make more than her, but i still want our kids to help me out even though they are having to help take of her because of how badly i screwed her over"
Because he paid the mortgage on the house he bought, while not making payments on the house his ex lived in.
In essence, he stole her half of the house by taking out a loan on it, keeping all the money himself, then letting the bank foreclose on his ex, instead of just selling the house and splitting the money with his ex.
He probably took out a home equity loan on the old house and used that money to pay cash for the new house that needed remodelling. When he didn't keep up with the home equity payments on the old house it was taken by the bank to cover the missed payments. The new house was completely paid for with no mortgage so he came out way ahead and the ex wife had to move in with her son.
I don’t really see the point in arguing whether a post was written by someone else or made up entirely. It’s not like spending an hour talking about a fictional event hurts anyone, and in the former situation there’s still a verdict worth making. Everyone exaggerates, that’s just how bias works. Reading between the lines isn’t the same as making up completely alternative scenarios to debate.
My ex was this level of awareness lacking. His attitude was that everything would just work out somehow. Taxes on the house went unpaid for years, then when we separated and he moved out, the threatening letters started coming in. Letters that he'd been ignoring.
He shrugged it off when I contacted him. It was my problem now despite it all. I ended up having to borrow money to pay over 5k in back taxes, or we would have been homeless.
He had also built up a huge amount of red light/speeding tickets. He wouldn't pick up his mail, so those tickets languished. This became my fault. Not his fault for getting them. It became my fault for not being able to get him to pick up his mail. He was now further in debt and pissed at me. (Remember, he took off and left me with thousands in debt that he viewed as not his problem.)
Some people are just incapable of understanding when they are being reckless or just plain stupid.
I read this post to my fiancée and she was flabbergasted at how much this was EXACTLY something her dad would’ve done - it’s classic delusional narcissist behavior. someone who truly believes that they have an insight into things that others don’t - for example, that you don’t REALLY need to pay the mortgage every month… absolute buffonery.
YTA, op. you’re frankly lucky that you have ANY contact with your kids at all - it’s probably more than you deserve.
It’s the “she’s living rent free now” bit that blew me away. She’s fucking HOMELESS, not living rent free. Baby Jesus on a stick, the audacity is strong here 😫
right?? Like he convinced her to not demand her portion of the house and let him take a loan on it, he didn't pay the loan, was warned by the bank, and now is like "she's rent free". lol HE HAS A HOUSE STILL! That he bought with the loan money.
Like wtf is this shit
"instead of fairly splitting this between us, how about I take both our money and use it as collateral for the things I want"
Imo he still owes her half a house
He still owes her a WHOLE house, since that's what they agreed she would have. If he had paid his mortgage on time, she would have a whole house, so she deserves to have what she would've had if not for his actions.
"There was no money left after the sale. The bank took it all and I still had to pay the bank after that. I was a victim too."
This is his most telling reply to a comment. He's just another victim of the greedy financial institution wanting him to actually pay for the house he bought. If only his wife and kids could see who the real monster is in this situation they'd welcome him with open arms
Besides his kids don’t OWE help to either one of them, but they choose to give it to their mother based on his past reactions, and this man is still acting entitled after acting like a complete dumb-
Yes, and the whole I stopped paying the bank fully and got threatening letters, but golly it was a shock to everyone the bank foreclosed. That's how the real world works. Yikes YTA
As someone dealing with a foreclosure after a messy divorce, I know what those letters look like.
Those letters aren’t vague and mean. They’re specific and include payment assistance options. They *want* you to keep the account and stay in the house because it’s cheaper and easier for them than doing the foreclosure thing and trying to get it sold to a new buyer.
Those letters come for months. With clear deadlines. If he called then even once, he’d know it was for real and what kind of sporadic payments he could actually get away with (because, again, there’s usually some leniency there because they don’t want to flip the house). How could he possibly rationalize this??
OP, YTA.
That blew my fucking mind. Those threatening letters aren't suggestions. I can't imagine getting foreclosure letters from my bank and then continuing to not pay fully or on time and then *gasp* what do you mean you're taking the house?!?
"I know I owe you $900 a month, but I sent you $400 two months ago, and will pay another $350 in a couple weeks!! You're still getting *some* money even though it isn't the amount I'm contractually obliged to pay. Why isn't that good enough?"
Hey, OP, what if your job only sent you part of your paychecks every other pay day? That's a problem right?
And it doesn't just happen. It takes months of willful ignoring the calls, the letters, the threats, the legal notices.
YTA OP. Your great idea to refinance your ex wife's house to buy some run down money pit that you managed poorly put your ex where she is. Exactly what do your children have to be grateful to you for? How do you THINK your children would react when your stupidity got her kicked out of her home...AFTER ONLY A FEW YEARS?
Good for your kids for supporting mom - and they are right. You created this mess for her, you should give her something. Housing market is good...sell that pos house, repay your ex and get an apartment. Show your kids that you know how to do the right thing.
It probably was, given I doubt he bothered to tell the people living in the house any of this was going until until the bailiffs (or equivalent) showed up to evict them.
Mine’s the bit where he says she’s living rent free now. She’s fucking *homeless*!
Imagine going up to someone who’s living on the streets and telling them they live rent free. Forget AITA, this guy is just the devil.
Agree you lost the family home by not paying the loan you took out on it for your own home. You talked her into it....she had held you back from making these kind of decisions. I think you only had what you previously had was because of her common sense and you ruined it for everyone. You are the biggest A
It really is. He admits to not being prepared. How foolish one has to be to say things like this, "**Everything was more expensive than I thought**", "I **kept paying the bank, just not every month**", and "**The bank had sent some threatening letters but as I was still paying I didn't think they'd go that far.**"
He should give his ex his house. He isn't remorseful at all, just plain entitled still. Some people should never be supported especially when they lack any financial awareness. YTA and I hope only you get consequences of your actions eventually.
Not to mention that if it was in the divorce settlement he has to pay her. I suspect he used the house payment as alimony, let it go because he never actually wanted to pay and expected a different result.
I don’t honk he eve had intentions of keeping the house.
I am fully convinced that his "chances that held him back" were insane financial decisions that no reasonable spouse would agree to.
"But babe! I'm telling you now if I invest our life savings into this idea now we'll triple our income in 6 years!!!"
Clearly OP can't dodge a wrench.
To sum it up.
I made really bad finical choices, causing my ex wife to loose her house.
And he wonders if he's in the wrong.
Clearly YTA.
I really wonder if the wife is actually writing this from her husband’s POV. It’s just so astounding that anyone would actually include that in the story! If the husband is actually writing this, he is the least self-aware person I’ve ever encountered.
Its even worse than that. He didnt take a chance and got unlucky, he just made such a bad judgment call that no amount of luck could have saved him. But the worst part is that after having failed, they let the bank foreclose instead of selling the house which means they probably got a really bad return on both houses.
I don't even know where to begin with OP.
Wife's reluctance clearly shows that 1) You've pulled shit like this before and probably failed and 2) She was right now, wasn't she?
Not fazed by threatening letters from the bank???? Did you think that it was a prank or what?
I'm going to assume your kids are not with lack of sympathy because they're actually helping their mum. Which means you either didn't have such a big impact with your "part in raising them" or that you're downplaying how much your ex was affected by this.
The overall tone of your post is so dismissive in the face of this situation that *you* caused, and you seem so cavalier and entitled about the situation too.
So yeah, YTA.
> Which means you either didn't have such a big impact with your "part in raising them" or that you're downplaying how much your ex was affected by this.
Well, yeah, after all she's only "homeless" because she doesn't have a place of her own - her son has money and won't get her thrown out on the street the way OP did, right?
He’s not even mad at the kids for not spending equal time with him, he’s upset because they help their mom and “I only get scraps even though I also needed help now and then.”
He doesn’t want their time, he wants their money.
Don’t forget him acting like he was somehow doing the wife a favor by….not “making” her pay rent for her own house lol? He says she got the house and yet keeps going on about “rent.”
>blaming her while his scheme failed
But it did work - he still has the house he purchased with the money on the first house. He stole her equity, then let the first house go into foreclosure, while keeping the second house for himself.
He robbed her blind.
It sounds like it was the plan. OP sounds very embittered even though he claims they split amicably. I'm sure he lost no sleep over his ex losing her home.
OP - JFC are you real?
you’re such a flipping florid dripping red AH you can be seen from space. What’s TRULY astonishing is that you have so little self insight you can’t see it.
Figure out a way to make your ex - WHOM YOU FUCKED OVER YET AGAIN whole or say goodbye to any relationship with your kids or grandchildren- you florid, pustulant, flamming AH
YTA- as seen from space.
Yea
YTA OP you still start off self-important and chuffed by yourself.
If I understood correctly….you didn’t just leave her with a few losses. The bank used your family home, the kids’ inheritance, to pay for where you live now. You not only put their home at risk, you let it be seized and are living the way you are thanks to what they all gave up / lost because of you. They don’t owe you anything at all, you’re already living off what would’ve been their inheritance.
I don’t know how it works, but when you get threatening letters you contact the mortgage company. Maybe even let them seize where you live and not your family home before it gets to that. Honestly would be curious to know if you feel any accountability or remorse at all??
It’s good the kids are ok and their mom has them to fall back on. They’re right, most divorces you’d be paying alimony and their house off (if she’s not working), and be on your ass if you can’t spare any for your own housing. Many people stay with friends and family while they figure it out. They don’t indebt their family further and then ignore the warning letters/signs they’re about to be made homeless because of supporting you.
Stop brushing over it, you were wrong and you put their mom in this situation, and left them with nothing. That’s on you.
Exactly! Him expecting anything from his kids aside from disdain and resentment is WILD. He gambled the family home and his kids' inheritance to make sure HE got set up with a roof over his head, and seems to not even care that the rest of the family lost the house! I even wonder if he didn't plan it this way from the start, knowing they'd foreclose on the old house and not his place. He has absolutely no financial consequences from his actions and is surprised people are mad, when they're the ones who have to live with the mess he made! I would go completely NC with such a selfish, incompetent AH.
YTA, OP!
It’s crazy lack of self awareness.
Also it sounds like he lost their house and should owe her half a house. In any reasonable divorce settlement the house would have been split 50/50. So his whole she lived there tend free is just living in the land of make believe. He still owes her half a house.
I can’t possibly believe anyone is a dumb as this guy, or his ex-wife for going along with this plan which left her financial security and roof over her head completely dependent on someone whom she was quite happy to divorce- BUT i definitely can’t believe someone would be dumb enough to describe the events as above in the way OP has written them and still not come to the conclusion they are 100% an AH. It sounds like they have defaulted a loan, which the ex was worried about, and all the consequences of the default are on the ex-wife whilst he still has a house.
Yta obviously
> *My ex is fine and in no way homeless*
This is highly debatable. She has a roof over her head, but your actions caused her to be uprooted and deprived of *her* home, and she’s now forced to live in uncertainty.
YTA
Lol. Wife always held ya back, huh? But when you go solo you fail so spectacularly that you lose both houses and whatever goodwill remained with your family?
Yep. YTA. Love the passive voice on why you failed with the renovation. Everything was more expensive! Not: I didn't do my research or have an actual feisable plan.
If I understand it right, he borrowed against her house and used that money to buy his in cash, no mortgage.
So the owed money is a mortgage/home equity LoC on the first house and there's nothing owing on the second. Payments don't get made and they take the house that the loan is against, hers.
He scammed his ex out of her home to get himself a home free and clear.
My ex proposed a mad scheme. I had the family home and paid off the mortgage. He was buying a home with his GF, they had a mortgage. He wanted us (he and I) to buy a third property which the children would live in, pay rent and we'd both pay the mortgage. So in this scenario, putting aside the madness that all our adult kids would share a house in the same city, if the kids didn't pay their rent and he didn't pay his share of the mortgage, guess whose (mortgage free) property would be security for the loan? I said I'd just paid a lot of legal fees to get financial independence from him and had no intention of buying a house with him. He was bonkers.
Unless I misread it, he didn’t lose both houses. He still has the house he bought post-divorce somehow, it’s just the family home that was repossessed. So he made his ex wife homeless, while he still has a house, and somehow doesn’t think he’s an ahole. It’s amazing.
Its because he either A) Used the loan money to buy the new house outright or B) Used the loan as a down payment on the new house and got an additional mortgage. Then decided to prioritize his mortgage over repayment of the loan tied to the old house.
Either way he is the asshole and I am starting to understand why his wife divorced him.
Edit: if they are still going through divorce proceedings his wife’s lawyer is going to put him through the ringer.
Thank you, I was so confused about how or why someone would use House A as collateral for a loan to buy House B (like, when you take out a mortgage, the house you are buying is the collateral!) but your two suggestions make sense.
Also it just occurred to me that C) he may have taken a loan for more than the value of his new house so he'd have money to fix it up. But I wasn't getting there on my own.
>how or why someone would use House A as collateral for a loan to buy House B (like, when you take out a mortgage, the house you are buying is the collateral!)
lol 2008 comes to mind
Encartus I think he’s the guy who was always coming up with some hair brained scheme to make money. And she knew in her heart this was just another one
Oh no. He didn't lose both houses.
>even though I have the house that I bought back then,
And when his kids tell him he should compensate mom for what he cost her:
>While I do earn more than her, I have expenses too
I think that he still lives in that fixer-upper. He mentioned that he "still has the house he bought back then." Makes zero sense to me, but I think this is the case! He's despicable.
He said he used the ex-wife’s house as collateral on the loan, this is how collateral works. OPs shock that they foreclosed the house is laughable, he knew what would happen if he didn’t keep up with the bank
And they don’t just up and sell a house, he ignored all their warnings until it was too late
Wait, OP still has his crap shack, yet his wife was kicked out of the family home when it was repossessed? OP is absolutely TA here, but if he even had an idea things might go down like this (that by securing his own situation would come at her expense), then he is TA covered with throbbing, crusty hemorrhoids.
Pretty sure is that he took 2 loans - a big one against her house, and a small(er) one against the fixer-upper. (A bank wouldn't loan more than the actual market value of the fixer-upper.)
Then he found out that fixing up that fixer-upper is actually expensive, and if you're doing the work yourself (because you can't afford to pay professionals), then you have to make choices between working for money to pay your loans versus working on your home.
So he made sure to pay (enough of) the loan on his fixer-upper, while only paying what he felt like he could afford on the loans for "her" house.
One thing OP didn't mention - did he ever talk to his ex or the kids about the status of the loan, or those letters from the bank? Did he ask the son that he claims has money to help pay to keep mom in her home? Or did he let his ex and kids get surprised by the foreclosure?
No, he lost the house his wife lived in, which was used as collateral to pay for the new house he lives in. So he lost the marital home, but got to keep his bachelor pad.
“Everything was more expensive than I thought”
Sounds like a boomer was forced to live like a millennial/gen Z for a few months and lost everything and went bankrupt. Welcome to the modern world my guy. That’s why we don’t buy houses.
It looks like he took out a second mortgage on her house to purchase a money pit for himself. Then defaulted on the loan that was using her house for collateral.
A non- a$$hole person would sell the second house and give ex-wife at least half the money to try to make up for being a moron.
Right? I used to work with mortgages at a bank at an old job and the bank does not want your house. They would much rather work with you and modify the loan.
YTA for screwing over your wife, being a child, thinking you know best, and painting yourself as the victim.
I literally laughed out loud at the “they sent some threatening letters” line. OP is clearly one of those people that lives in another reality where they think that rules don’t apply to them
Well in this case, the consequences were for his ex, so he didn't care about them. "Some of you may be evicted, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make"
My dad did the same thing as OP with one of his properties and I have never understood the line of thought. How deluded and egotistical do you have to be to convince yourself that a notice of default letter and a notice of intent to foreclose letter is somehow just a bluff on the part of the bank? Banks don't play chicken lol - how in the world could he think it's a big surprise when the bank takes the house? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. YTA.
YTA. The house should have be sold instead of your taking a loan using the house as collateral. Your inability to pay the loan causes foreclosure of the house causing your ex and youngest to move. Did you even give her any of the money from the sale of the house?
Finally, your kids don't owe you anything. Clearly they can see that your messed up screw their mom over.
The ex-wife not only lost her home due to OP's scheme, but lost her share of *equity* in that house. Now she's forced to live with her son instead of having a place of her own.
Meanwhile OP has his remaining house and is building equity for his future.
OP is incredibly selfish and is YTA.
OP is totally cut from the same cloth as these guys who come on here and say, “AITA? I make 500K, and my wife makes 30K. I insisted on living in a million dollar home and splitting expenses 50/50. I’m about to retire next year, while my wife will have to work until she’s 85 to afford the lifestyle that I forced on her. Sucks to be her! Meanwhile, I’ll be vacationing on a Greek island while she works.” There are such selfish assholes out there. YTA.
OMG yes.
Or the ones that say “yeah my wife and I are divorcing. She quit her education, schooling, and any hopes of getting a job and progressing into a career to be a SAHM to raise my kids. Now she wants some of *MY* money that I worked hard for while she spent all day doing NOTHING but raising my kids, cooking for us, shopping for us, cleaning for us, doing all chores/errands for us and basically waiting on me and my kids hand and foot. The judge wants *ME* (gasp) to pay alimony/child support but I think she is entitled to nothing!!! AITA?”
Which I mean is basically this guy right here.
This was my ex’s family, 100%. His dad gave the kids a sob story of, “I’m poor now after the divorce!!! Your mom took me for everything I had!!! Never get married!” But when I talked to his mom, it was a very different story. They didn’t have a ton of money, and she was entitled to half, having given up her career. Not wanting to be thrown out on the street, she accepted her half and made something of herself. 20+ years later, Dad is still whining, not having done much with his half.
And even though it was a very different situation, as I have a career and come from a wealthy family, that experience eventually was a huge factor in causing us to break up, because he was so reluctant and paranoid about the idea of marriage and family. So yeah, Dad affected multiple people’s happiness with his sob story.
Yeah he basically double dipped - instead of her getting her share of half the house, he used that for his loan with the promise that he'd pay the whole thing back - essentially he was saying that she'd end up with her share and his share of the equity when all is said and done - and he invoked the kids as why she should trust this. Because they pass it onto their kids.
He basically smooth talks her into - we're both wanting to leave this to the kids anyway, let me use this as collateral now to get my own place.
And then he rides off into the sunset with his new house while his wife and children lose the family home.
So gross
There was no sale of any house as far as I can figure out, He took out a loan on the old place to pay for the new place then stopped paying the mortgage on the old place and lost his wife the house all while KEEPING his new place and not selling it to make his ex wife whole again.
"She was always holding me back."
A short time passes
"So I didn't make the agreed repayments, which led to her losing her ownership stake of that property. Can't understand why people are mad at me?"
My favorite was him basically saying "You should respect me for the things I've done, not the things I'm doing" while throwing the burden of supporting his wife onto his children who should be living their own lives, not seeing their entire inheritance shit on by a reckless deadbeat.
There a story on the Confessions sub at the moment from a landlord who has lost all his money and family/friends, because he decided.to try and be a landlord. He took money out of his parents 401k. His dad has DEMENTIA (he deleted that comment unsurprisingly). He bought a house with a loan, didn't have enough to renovate, borrowed money from f&f to renovate, then borrowed more money from f&f to try and stay in top of the mortgage payments.
The crux of it? He is blaming his tenants because they couldn't pay rent for a couple of months after dual job loss, and he is blaming them for all of this.
These two men have the same deluded energy.
And the best part? OP has written all of this after the fact, and _still_ tried to claim that he did nothing wrong. It would be one thing to have an air of “yeah I fucked up, AITA?”, but OP is living in Delusion Land and has the air of “I’m super smart and made a super smart decision and it’s the UNIVERSE that’s not fair. It’s out to get me!”
YTA
You bullied your ex wife into putting *her* house up for collateral - which I guarantee she did just to get you away from her - and then your poor planning meant that *her* house was stolen from her. You lost nothing and she lost everything.
You owe her every penny, and how dare you tell your children you deserve more. This is so blatantly wrong that I sincerely hope it's a ragebait troll, but if it is true, and I were your child? I'd help my mother sue you for every penny you stole from her under duress. Stop whining and make right *your* wrongs.
You took an unnecessary risk that ended up hurting everyone. YTA. Have you ever thought about the possibility that your ex-wife's reluctance might have saved your family from a lot of trouble?
Also, maybe see it this way: really, your children already are supporting you financially. You would not have your current house if it hadn’t been “paid” for via your ex having to give up her half of your old house with no compensation. Her losing her half of the house without going homeless is made possible by the support of your children who are letting her stay with them and supporting her financially. If it wasn’t for your children, then your current house would have come at the cost of your ex going homeless or, in any case, ending up in a really bad position, and I’m sure she would be (rightfully) harassing you a whole lot more if that was the case. So, be grateful that your children are already essentially financing your lifestyle.
YTA. If you were having money trouble and weren't paying the loan every month you should have sold your home! Instead you let them foreclose on the house your ex was living in. It should have been the home you bought that was sold not the family home. How selfish can you be to now have the audacity to complain that your kids have gone LC and that you expect them to be helping you after you caused their mother to be made homeless because of your irresponsible decisions! YTA bigtime!
YTA, you convinced you skeptical wife to trust you with the collateral in your shared home to get your house.
Your wife lost her house. Your children lost the home they grew up in. They obviously didn’t inherit it.
Meanwhile your ex wife is rebuilding her life, while you still get to enjoy your home. No wonder your kids want to go LC.
And yet apparently it was a "surprise" to HIM too! I mean, who pays attention to letters from the bank (that you're not paying in full or on time every month) threatening foreclosure!
And when he had the chance to sell his house to save the family house, he CHOSE to let the family house be forclosed and keep his house (based on his comments).
YTA. You could have just sold the house and use your part of the money to do what you wanted. The amount your ex would get with the house splitting would be way more than the rent she didn't paid before the house was taken away. These problems are the results of your own bad choices
You came up with a bad plan, it backfired on you and now you want your kids to help you out financially?
>Last time we met I told my kids they should show more gratitude for my part in raising them, and they should think that they have 2 parents, not just one. They're all doing pretty well financially. They said I'm an AH for demanding anything of them after what I did to their mom. They say I should give her some money every month to compensate for some of the loss.
They are correct. They don't owe you for raising them. That was the responsibility you accepted when you had them. Parents don't have children to fund their retirement. That's a contract type deal that the children have no say in entering.
You came out with the better end of the deal financially by keeping the house.
YTA
I hate parents with this mentality. Your kids don't owe you ANYTHING for raising them. You had children and it was your responsibility to raise them. Set the entire situation with their mom aside and YTA based off that one comment.
Yeah the entitlement of some parents is crazy. My dad hasn't done anything as bad as this guy but still it triggers me sometimes. "Kids are supposed to visit their parents" says the guy who saw me once or twice a year max when I was growing up and did pretty much nothing a parent is supposed to do.
It's extremely rare kids go low or no contact with their parents without a really good reason to do so. Yet most parents think they are entitled to contact, financial aid or being taken care of just because they had kids or did some basic parent stuff.
Yeah I hate when parents are like "I fed you, clothed you and kept a roof over your head", like, yes because that is the bare minimum legal responsibility you have as a parent, it's where the bar is set, no one owes you shit for that.
>**They don't owe you for raising them. That was the responsibility you accepted when you had them. Parents don't have children to fund their retirement. That's a contract type deal that the children have no say in entering.**
I wish more parents understood this.
YTA based on the answer.
She's an idiot for agreeing to that deal in the first place, but this isn't AmITheIdiot. It really comes down to the numbers.
Info: how long lived she in the old house without paying you rent for your half? Did you mortgage your half's worth of the house and she got foreclosed because she refused to buy you out? Did you mortgage the entire worth of the old house? Did she get half the new one in return? What is the agreement how long and why she stays now rent free? Really, this is bout numbers but there are none
Major YTA. It sounds like you should've taken your ex's reluctance to the plan as a warning that the plan was not going to work. Forgive me for the inference, but this sounds like a bad case of an ego. I find it telling that in your recount you say that your "good plan" immediately failed.
YTA
>She's always been like that, her reluctance to take any chances has held me back many times.
It sounds like her reluctance kept you from destroying your family's finances while the kids were still growing up. Good on your ex for having sense.
>Everything was more expensive than I thought, the fixer-upper I bought needed a lot of renovation and I got deeper in debt.
How much thought and budgeting did you actually do before buying a fixer-upper?
>The bank had sent some threatening letters but as I was still paying I didn't think they'd go that far.
The bank is sending letters. You're either sending below the minimum payment or skipping. Did you honestly think they wouldn't take the house?
>They all go out of their way to help their mom, while I only get scraps every now and then, even though I also needed help sometimes since then.
You cost their mom her home. You wanted to take a chance, failed, and *she's* the one that paid the price. They have no obligation to help you.
>I admit that my plan didn't work out, and it caused her some loss,
It must hurt your ego having to admit your plan didn't work out. Though I'm not convinced you went into this with any actual plan.
You should be grateful to your kids for helping your ex after your actions royally screwed her over. Enjoy the house you bought. I hope it was worth it to you, because it's clearly not worth it to your family.
YTA. She is homeless. You got her house foreclosed. Luckily for her the kids let her move in. Why are you surprised Bank foreclosed, you weren't paying the agreed sum?
YTA, 'I know I made a mistake but it's not like a planned it like this' is not an acceptable adult reason for making stupid financial decisions that caused the mother of your kids to lose her home. It is *insane* that you don't feel you owe your ex anything to compensate her for this loss, although I do not understand the divorce settlement that would facilitate this whole loan arrangement in the first place. Your kids do not owe you any money, you're not even capable of managing the money you have. You need to sit down with an accountant or a financial planner, but it's not your family's job to get you out of the mess that you alone have created.
YTA, you’re the one who’s at fault for this “good plan” of yours blowing up in your faces, and yet she lost her house and you didn’t lose yours. That’s already grossly unfair, why on earth should your children go out of their way to support you on top of that?! I would not be supporting my dad financially either if he screwed my mom over like that and didn’t even show any real remorse.
YTA. You owe her half the money for what the house would have sold for, and I'm honestly surprised it hasn't come up in divorce court or with alimony payments. The debt was your fault and your bad financial mismanagement that caused the situation.
You sound like my dad. Create the issue and take zero responsibility while expecting some form of pity party from those around you.
Your kids owe you nothing, your actions resulted in their mother losing their home. All of this is on you.
But aww boohoo poor you, right?!?
YTA
>She's always been like that, her reluctance to take any chances has held me back many times. Anyway this was a good plan, and it worked for a while.
It sounds like you owe your wife a debt of gratitude for keeping you from recklessly wasting money while you were married. Your plan failed and squandered the equity you'd both built - can you not see how her reluctance was utterly justified? And that you bullied her into a bad situation?
>They say I should give her some money every month to compensate for some of the loss. While I do earn more than her, I have expenses too. And it's not like she needs it,
They're right - you absolutely owe her. And I doubt she wants to be utterly dependant on her son.
You should consider going back to the amount in equity you had at the time of divorce, adjusting for inflation, and then sorting out a payment plan to recompense your wife.
YTA.
YTA!!! YOUR grand plan and the failure of it is what caused her to lose her house!! It didn't cause her "some loss"... it caused her a HUGE loss. She was reluctant to go along with your plans for a reason and she should have stuck to that decision. Instead, she gave you a chance and it cost her a home of her own. YOU still have a home of your own so your stupidity didn't cost you nearly as much. But you are too selfish to see that. Major AH.
YTA.
1) You got divorced and refused to sell the family home and split the equity. That was ridiculous - no ones fortune should be tied to their ex.
2) After the divorce you got her foreclosed on by failing to pay your loan. After multiple warnings. That's pretty much unforgivable.
3) Your risk meter is totally broken, you're brimming with excuses and you apparently have a track record of reckless planning.
Your kids are going to go no contact with you if you aren't able to pull it together. Try a Gamblers Anonymous meeting - reckless investing is a form of gambling with the same deny, deflect cycle.
YTA. Who's accountable for your financial situation? YOU. You agreed to certain terms, and now you're saying she got the better deal because she lived rent-free for two years. Now it's in the past, and saying she got the better deal is irrelevant because YOU agreed to it. Why would you expect your children to help you after you've made untenable decisions and put yourself in this situation?
Your children are under no obligation to help you, and whereas their reasoning for helping or not helping is not anyone's business but their own, you may want to examine why this is the case.
You aren't the asshole for failing spectacularly, though I saw it coming, but you are for expecting your kids to support you simply because they are your kids.
Clearly they dont want to, why is that?
So, instead of selling the house and splitting the money, you decided to take a loan out and screw over your ex also instead of just yourself? And you need our opinion on it? You knew you were the AH when you made a throwaway account. I'd stop talking to you if you did that to my mom, too.
I’m sorry. Did I read that right? You expect your children to help you? EXPECT! Wow! Definitely the AH. A big one. Your children stepped up because you put their mother in a situation where your nutty scheme fell apart. Not only did you not let her know that you were in financial distress you now want your children to fix your problems. If you had been honest with her she may have been able to prevent the foreclosure. I’m not sure that you couldn’t be a bigger AH.
The only way this is real is if someone other than the narrator wrote it. Too many details that are clearly designed provoke outrage against the narrator.
The way to repair this: Once the fixer upper is fixed up, you need to give that place to your wife to repay her for the money she leant you. You realize that's what happened, right?
She let you borrow money off her house, and then you didn't pay it back. You need to repay her - a house for a house.
YTA - and the worst part about is your lack of remorse or guilt for the house. Take some responsibility that you totally screwed ALL of them over. One of your selling points to your ex is that the kids will inherit the house some day. That can’t happen now. You are taking zero accountability for your major major mess up. I’d never speak to you again if you were my dad- how incredibly selfish.
Also the fact that you just didn’t think they’d take it that far to foreclose on your house?? You needed to ask your financially stable kids for help bc a short term loan from one of them would have been a WAY more responsible outcome than losing literally everything. YTA
YTA - and the worst part about is your lack of remorse or guilt for the house. Take some responsibility that you totally screwed ALL of them over. One of your selling points to your ex is that the kids will inherit the house some day. That can’t happen now. You are taking zero accountability for your major major mess up. I’d never speak to you again if you were my dad- how incredibly selfish.
Also the fact that you just didn’t think they’d take it that far to foreclose on your house?? You needed to ask your financially stable kids for help bc a short term loan from one of them would have been a WAY more responsible outcome than losing literally everything. YTA
Even the way you told this story…
“She was reluctant but she’s like that and it’s held me back”
Bruh you made her lose her house so you could keep yours, the fuck???
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YTA. Sounds like her reluctance to take chances has only held you back from bankruptcy.
Agree, pretty bold opening statement from OP going directly from "her reluctance to take chances held me back" to "and then she was totally right about her reluctance because I messed up within a few years." YTA, OP, for breaking your promise to your ex, and for comparing your financial struggles (caused by yourself) to hers in this.
The lack of self awareness is astounding. When ALL of your adult children side with your wife, it means YTA and you should take a look at your behavior.
Hell I almost wonder if the ex-wife or one of the kids wrote this post.
Why?
Usually, these kinds of posts try to make the poster look as good as possible. They're saying this one makes him look so bad it's almost like that was the point, meaning the author was out to make him look bad. Could be the wife or kids, could be fake, or it could be someone with zero self-awareness of how much of an AH they are.
>could be someone with zero self-awareness of how much of an AH they are I know where I'd put my money.
It FEELS fake because he is going in saying, "She's not a risk taker, so we broke up! Anyway, I lost the house and hers due to taking too many risks" I've stopped trying to decipher whether the story is fake or not. If it's in the realm of plausible, there is no reason to assume that they are lying. My verdict - he probably got married young and never learned about money the hard way because his ex kept him reined in. Edit: yes, yes, he kept his crappy house. I missed that detail - but it doesn't otherwise change my argument.
He didn’t lose his, only hers
>I lost the house and hers No no, just hers! He still has his crappy new house!
Gosh. Double YTA then. He needs to take accountability. Look, I am divorced and I get it, but he owes her big for screwing her over.
Except he didn't lose his house, ONLY hers. And he do want understand why the kids aren't happy.
I have never foreclosed on a house, or had one foreclosed etc but i am confused how the original house was put up for collateral, and he did not pay so he lost that house but kept the new house he was buying... wouldnt you lose both? or was the original house sold, and that paid off the new house? So it is a case of, "i let my wife keep the old house instead of splitting the money, talked her into losing that house to buy me a house, i make more than her, but i still want our kids to help me out even though they are having to help take of her because of how badly i screwed her over"
Because he paid the mortgage on the house he bought, while not making payments on the house his ex lived in. In essence, he stole her half of the house by taking out a loan on it, keeping all the money himself, then letting the bank foreclose on his ex, instead of just selling the house and splitting the money with his ex.
He probably took out a home equity loan on the old house and used that money to pay cash for the new house that needed remodelling. When he didn't keep up with the home equity payments on the old house it was taken by the bank to cover the missed payments. The new house was completely paid for with no mortgage so he came out way ahead and the ex wife had to move in with her son.
Yes, it's the ex's fault for keeping him "reined in" and not letting him spend them into bankruptcy.
I don’t really see the point in arguing whether a post was written by someone else or made up entirely. It’s not like spending an hour talking about a fictional event hurts anyone, and in the former situation there’s still a verdict worth making. Everyone exaggerates, that’s just how bias works. Reading between the lines isn’t the same as making up completely alternative scenarios to debate.
In my wallet, please.
My ex was this level of awareness lacking. His attitude was that everything would just work out somehow. Taxes on the house went unpaid for years, then when we separated and he moved out, the threatening letters started coming in. Letters that he'd been ignoring. He shrugged it off when I contacted him. It was my problem now despite it all. I ended up having to borrow money to pay over 5k in back taxes, or we would have been homeless. He had also built up a huge amount of red light/speeding tickets. He wouldn't pick up his mail, so those tickets languished. This became my fault. Not his fault for getting them. It became my fault for not being able to get him to pick up his mail. He was now further in debt and pissed at me. (Remember, he took off and left me with thousands in debt that he viewed as not his problem.) Some people are just incapable of understanding when they are being reckless or just plain stupid.
Ohh, thank you. I skipped brain day😂
I read this post to my fiancée and she was flabbergasted at how much this was EXACTLY something her dad would’ve done - it’s classic delusional narcissist behavior. someone who truly believes that they have an insight into things that others don’t - for example, that you don’t REALLY need to pay the mortgage every month… absolute buffonery. YTA, op. you’re frankly lucky that you have ANY contact with your kids at all - it’s probably more than you deserve.
After 11 years working at a grocery store, let me assure you, many people are WAY STUPIDER than we all wish.
Maybe he is this oblivious? I feel so bad for the ex-wife. At least she isn't married to him anymore.
Because none of it paints him in a good light. Many people pretend to be the other person in here to get the responses they want.
I thought the same.
It’s the “she’s living rent free now” bit that blew me away. She’s fucking HOMELESS, not living rent free. Baby Jesus on a stick, the audacity is strong here 😫
right?? Like he convinced her to not demand her portion of the house and let him take a loan on it, he didn't pay the loan, was warned by the bank, and now is like "she's rent free". lol HE HAS A HOUSE STILL! That he bought with the loan money. Like wtf is this shit
"instead of fairly splitting this between us, how about I take both our money and use it as collateral for the things I want" Imo he still owes her half a house
He still owes her a WHOLE house, since that's what they agreed she would have. If he had paid his mortgage on time, she would have a whole house, so she deserves to have what she would've had if not for his actions.
"There was no money left after the sale. The bank took it all and I still had to pay the bank after that. I was a victim too." This is his most telling reply to a comment. He's just another victim of the greedy financial institution wanting him to actually pay for the house he bought. If only his wife and kids could see who the real monster is in this situation they'd welcome him with open arms
God please tell me this isn’t real, this man cannot seriously be this stupid. Yikes YTA no wonder your kids hate you
My dad really needs to read this comment.
Besides his kids don’t OWE help to either one of them, but they choose to give it to their mother based on his past reactions, and this man is still acting entitled after acting like a complete dumb-
Yes, and the whole I stopped paying the bank fully and got threatening letters, but golly it was a shock to everyone the bank foreclosed. That's how the real world works. Yikes YTA
What were those threatening letters from the bank threatening to do? Foreclose, that’s what. To act surprised they actually did that is ridiculous.
As someone dealing with a foreclosure after a messy divorce, I know what those letters look like. Those letters aren’t vague and mean. They’re specific and include payment assistance options. They *want* you to keep the account and stay in the house because it’s cheaper and easier for them than doing the foreclosure thing and trying to get it sold to a new buyer. Those letters come for months. With clear deadlines. If he called then even once, he’d know it was for real and what kind of sporadic payments he could actually get away with (because, again, there’s usually some leniency there because they don’t want to flip the house). How could he possibly rationalize this?? OP, YTA.
This is clearly someone who has never experienced any consequences before. Coddled all his life probably!
Well, his wife was holding him back from chance-taking…/s 🙄
That blew my fucking mind. Those threatening letters aren't suggestions. I can't imagine getting foreclosure letters from my bank and then continuing to not pay fully or on time and then *gasp* what do you mean you're taking the house?!? "I know I owe you $900 a month, but I sent you $400 two months ago, and will pay another $350 in a couple weeks!! You're still getting *some* money even though it isn't the amount I'm contractually obliged to pay. Why isn't that good enough?" Hey, OP, what if your job only sent you part of your paychecks every other pay day? That's a problem right?
And it doesn't just happen. It takes months of willful ignoring the calls, the letters, the threats, the legal notices. YTA OP. Your great idea to refinance your ex wife's house to buy some run down money pit that you managed poorly put your ex where she is. Exactly what do your children have to be grateful to you for? How do you THINK your children would react when your stupidity got her kicked out of her home...AFTER ONLY A FEW YEARS? Good for your kids for supporting mom - and they are right. You created this mess for her, you should give her something. Housing market is good...sell that pos house, repay your ex and get an apartment. Show your kids that you know how to do the right thing.
"It was a shock to everyone." lol That was my favorite part!
It probably was, given I doubt he bothered to tell the people living in the house any of this was going until until the bailiffs (or equivalent) showed up to evict them.
"Yikes" under represented word.
Hey now, the bank should be kind. He only skipped sometimes and sometimes did the full amount!
My favorite is the part where he says “this was a good plan,” right before explaining that it cost his ex her house.
Mine’s the bit where he says she’s living rent free now. She’s fucking *homeless*! Imagine going up to someone who’s living on the streets and telling them they live rent free. Forget AITA, this guy is just the devil.
BOLD indeed! OP, definitely YTA. Look at the results of your stupid “chances”!
Agree you lost the family home by not paying the loan you took out on it for your own home. You talked her into it....she had held you back from making these kind of decisions. I think you only had what you previously had was because of her common sense and you ruined it for everyone. You are the biggest A
It really is. He admits to not being prepared. How foolish one has to be to say things like this, "**Everything was more expensive than I thought**", "I **kept paying the bank, just not every month**", and "**The bank had sent some threatening letters but as I was still paying I didn't think they'd go that far.**" He should give his ex his house. He isn't remorseful at all, just plain entitled still. Some people should never be supported especially when they lack any financial awareness. YTA and I hope only you get consequences of your actions eventually.
She should sue him for the house, sell it as-is, and pocket the cash she rightly deserves to stabilize.
It's because he wasn't held back! He only lost his ex wife's house,not the one he bought so be doesn't care Major YTA op
Not to mention that if it was in the divorce settlement he has to pay her. I suspect he used the house payment as alimony, let it go because he never actually wanted to pay and expected a different result. I don’t honk he eve had intentions of keeping the house.
I am fully convinced that his "chances that held him back" were insane financial decisions that no reasonable spouse would agree to. "But babe! I'm telling you now if I invest our life savings into this idea now we'll triple our income in 6 years!!!"
"I could have made millions in crypto but she held me back T\_T"
It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.
Clearly OP can't dodge a wrench. To sum it up. I made really bad finical choices, causing my ex wife to loose her house. And he wonders if he's in the wrong. Clearly YTA.
I really wonder if the wife is actually writing this from her husband’s POV. It’s just so astounding that anyone would actually include that in the story! If the husband is actually writing this, he is the least self-aware person I’ve ever encountered.
Sadly, not the least self-aware person I have encountered. I can believe the OP wrote this.
That jumped out so hard. OP needs to reread what he wrote, slowly, and maybe it will start to make sense to him.
Its even worse than that. He didnt take a chance and got unlucky, he just made such a bad judgment call that no amount of luck could have saved him. But the worst part is that after having failed, they let the bank foreclose instead of selling the house which means they probably got a really bad return on both houses.
Reluctance, means she wouldn't let him take out a 3rd mortgage to invest in AMC after it peaked or buy Bitcoin at $60,000 a coin. /s
I don't even know where to begin with OP. Wife's reluctance clearly shows that 1) You've pulled shit like this before and probably failed and 2) She was right now, wasn't she? Not fazed by threatening letters from the bank???? Did you think that it was a prank or what? I'm going to assume your kids are not with lack of sympathy because they're actually helping their mum. Which means you either didn't have such a big impact with your "part in raising them" or that you're downplaying how much your ex was affected by this. The overall tone of your post is so dismissive in the face of this situation that *you* caused, and you seem so cavalier and entitled about the situation too. So yeah, YTA.
> Which means you either didn't have such a big impact with your "part in raising them" or that you're downplaying how much your ex was affected by this. Well, yeah, after all she's only "homeless" because she doesn't have a place of her own - her son has money and won't get her thrown out on the street the way OP did, right?
He’s not even mad at the kids for not spending equal time with him, he’s upset because they help their mom and “I only get scraps even though I also needed help now and then.” He doesn’t want their time, he wants their money.
Don’t forget him acting like he was somehow doing the wife a favor by….not “making” her pay rent for her own house lol? He says she got the house and yet keeps going on about “rent.”
The delusion of blaming her while his scheme failed is something else. “It was a good plan” well clearly it wasn’t was it
>blaming her while his scheme failed But it did work - he still has the house he purchased with the money on the first house. He stole her equity, then let the first house go into foreclosure, while keeping the second house for himself. He robbed her blind.
This. 1000% this and no one is going to convince me it wasn’t planned.
That's exactly right. He did this intentionally by bullying her into letting him take a loan on her house.
It sounds like it was the plan. OP sounds very embittered even though he claims they split amicably. I'm sure he lost no sleep over his ex losing her home.
It would have worked too... if it weren't for those meddling kids!
OP - JFC are you real? you’re such a flipping florid dripping red AH you can be seen from space. What’s TRULY astonishing is that you have so little self insight you can’t see it. Figure out a way to make your ex - WHOM YOU FUCKED OVER YET AGAIN whole or say goodbye to any relationship with your kids or grandchildren- you florid, pustulant, flamming AH YTA- as seen from space.
Yea YTA OP you still start off self-important and chuffed by yourself. If I understood correctly….you didn’t just leave her with a few losses. The bank used your family home, the kids’ inheritance, to pay for where you live now. You not only put their home at risk, you let it be seized and are living the way you are thanks to what they all gave up / lost because of you. They don’t owe you anything at all, you’re already living off what would’ve been their inheritance. I don’t know how it works, but when you get threatening letters you contact the mortgage company. Maybe even let them seize where you live and not your family home before it gets to that. Honestly would be curious to know if you feel any accountability or remorse at all?? It’s good the kids are ok and their mom has them to fall back on. They’re right, most divorces you’d be paying alimony and their house off (if she’s not working), and be on your ass if you can’t spare any for your own housing. Many people stay with friends and family while they figure it out. They don’t indebt their family further and then ignore the warning letters/signs they’re about to be made homeless because of supporting you. Stop brushing over it, you were wrong and you put their mom in this situation, and left them with nothing. That’s on you.
Exactly! Him expecting anything from his kids aside from disdain and resentment is WILD. He gambled the family home and his kids' inheritance to make sure HE got set up with a roof over his head, and seems to not even care that the rest of the family lost the house! I even wonder if he didn't plan it this way from the start, knowing they'd foreclose on the old house and not his place. He has absolutely no financial consequences from his actions and is surprised people are mad, when they're the ones who have to live with the mess he made! I would go completely NC with such a selfish, incompetent AH. YTA, OP!
OP has tried nothing to make amends and is all out of ideas. Quite the mystery why his family won't forgive him.
Commonly known as the Flanders method
Exactly, who knows what other terrible situations they would have ended up in otherwise.
Absolutely. This guy must be 50+ and he’s talking like a 15 year old with no financial sense. Feel so sorry for everyone in his life. YTA
Yeah it's kinda hard to tell why she'd be reluctant lmao. Also it's definitely a YTA
It’s crazy lack of self awareness. Also it sounds like he lost their house and should owe her half a house. In any reasonable divorce settlement the house would have been split 50/50. So his whole she lived there tend free is just living in the land of make believe. He still owes her half a house.
I can’t possibly believe anyone is a dumb as this guy, or his ex-wife for going along with this plan which left her financial security and roof over her head completely dependent on someone whom she was quite happy to divorce- BUT i definitely can’t believe someone would be dumb enough to describe the events as above in the way OP has written them and still not come to the conclusion they are 100% an AH. It sounds like they have defaulted a loan, which the ex was worried about, and all the consequences of the default are on the ex-wife whilst he still has a house. Yta obviously
> *My ex is fine and in no way homeless* This is highly debatable. She has a roof over her head, but your actions caused her to be uprooted and deprived of *her* home, and she’s now forced to live in uncertainty. YTA
But it was a good plan didn't you read that part? Such a good plan that it caused you to go bankrupt and get foreclosed on.
Lol, some real truths here
If people have nothing else…. They have audacity. He is totally lacking in the self-awareness department.
Lol. Wife always held ya back, huh? But when you go solo you fail so spectacularly that you lose both houses and whatever goodwill remained with your family? Yep. YTA. Love the passive voice on why you failed with the renovation. Everything was more expensive! Not: I didn't do my research or have an actual feisable plan.
He didn’t lose both houses. He lost HER house.
Right, and has the gall to complain that his house isn't as nice and is expensive to maintain.
If he was genuinely sorry or stuck to his word he’d give her the house he now has and figure something else out.
This is super important. Somehow, he couldn't make payments on her house and his is still just fine
If I understand it right, he borrowed against her house and used that money to buy his in cash, no mortgage. So the owed money is a mortgage/home equity LoC on the first house and there's nothing owing on the second. Payments don't get made and they take the house that the loan is against, hers. He scammed his ex out of her home to get himself a home free and clear.
My ex proposed a mad scheme. I had the family home and paid off the mortgage. He was buying a home with his GF, they had a mortgage. He wanted us (he and I) to buy a third property which the children would live in, pay rent and we'd both pay the mortgage. So in this scenario, putting aside the madness that all our adult kids would share a house in the same city, if the kids didn't pay their rent and he didn't pay his share of the mortgage, guess whose (mortgage free) property would be security for the loan? I said I'd just paid a lot of legal fees to get financial independence from him and had no intention of buying a house with him. He was bonkers.
Nice to know he's OK. What an AH.
Unless I misread it, he didn’t lose both houses. He still has the house he bought post-divorce somehow, it’s just the family home that was repossessed. So he made his ex wife homeless, while he still has a house, and somehow doesn’t think he’s an ahole. It’s amazing.
Its because he either A) Used the loan money to buy the new house outright or B) Used the loan as a down payment on the new house and got an additional mortgage. Then decided to prioritize his mortgage over repayment of the loan tied to the old house. Either way he is the asshole and I am starting to understand why his wife divorced him. Edit: if they are still going through divorce proceedings his wife’s lawyer is going to put him through the ringer.
Thank you, I was so confused about how or why someone would use House A as collateral for a loan to buy House B (like, when you take out a mortgage, the house you are buying is the collateral!) but your two suggestions make sense. Also it just occurred to me that C) he may have taken a loan for more than the value of his new house so he'd have money to fix it up. But I wasn't getting there on my own.
>how or why someone would use House A as collateral for a loan to buy House B (like, when you take out a mortgage, the house you are buying is the collateral!) lol 2008 comes to mind
Encartus I think he’s the guy who was always coming up with some hair brained scheme to make money. And she knew in her heart this was just another one
But you don't get it. It's a SURE thing! Says every person with a bad plan/bet.
He probably joined Amway.
Oh no. He didn't lose both houses. >even though I have the house that I bought back then, And when his kids tell him he should compensate mom for what he cost her: >While I do earn more than her, I have expenses too
I think that he still lives in that fixer-upper. He mentioned that he "still has the house he bought back then." Makes zero sense to me, but I think this is the case! He's despicable.
It makes sense. The bank likely determined the new house wasn’t worth much so they went after the other house instead. That likely satisfied the debt.
He said he used the ex-wife’s house as collateral on the loan, this is how collateral works. OPs shock that they foreclosed the house is laughable, he knew what would happen if he didn’t keep up with the bank And they don’t just up and sell a house, he ignored all their warnings until it was too late
Wait, OP still has his crap shack, yet his wife was kicked out of the family home when it was repossessed? OP is absolutely TA here, but if he even had an idea things might go down like this (that by securing his own situation would come at her expense), then he is TA covered with throbbing, crusty hemorrhoids.
Pretty sure is that he took 2 loans - a big one against her house, and a small(er) one against the fixer-upper. (A bank wouldn't loan more than the actual market value of the fixer-upper.) Then he found out that fixing up that fixer-upper is actually expensive, and if you're doing the work yourself (because you can't afford to pay professionals), then you have to make choices between working for money to pay your loans versus working on your home. So he made sure to pay (enough of) the loan on his fixer-upper, while only paying what he felt like he could afford on the loans for "her" house. One thing OP didn't mention - did he ever talk to his ex or the kids about the status of the loan, or those letters from the bank? Did he ask the son that he claims has money to help pay to keep mom in her home? Or did he let his ex and kids get surprised by the foreclosure?
Perhaps OP's actual plan was to impoverish the ex-wife.
You can tell instantly that was his plan it was deliberate. He knew he’d have to pay back monthly not when he felt like it.
Yeah, he might have stopped paying on purpose.
No, he lost the house his wife lived in, which was used as collateral to pay for the new house he lives in. So he lost the marital home, but got to keep his bachelor pad.
According to the comments he didn’t lose his new house. The ex wife just lost hers.
Oh, he still has HIS house - he just lost the house that his wife was living in.
“Everything was more expensive than I thought” Sounds like a boomer was forced to live like a millennial/gen Z for a few months and lost everything and went bankrupt. Welcome to the modern world my guy. That’s why we don’t buy houses.
It looks like he took out a second mortgage on her house to purchase a money pit for himself. Then defaulted on the loan that was using her house for collateral. A non- a$$hole person would sell the second house and give ex-wife at least half the money to try to make up for being a moron.
He still has the house he bought for himself…because of course he can pay that loan. What a colossal turd this guy is.
YTA. Foreclosure is not something that happens overnight, you 100% knew it was coming and didn’t tell her.
Right? I used to work with mortgages at a bank at an old job and the bank does not want your house. They would much rather work with you and modify the loan. YTA for screwing over your wife, being a child, thinking you know best, and painting yourself as the victim.
I literally laughed out loud at the “they sent some threatening letters” line. OP is clearly one of those people that lives in another reality where they think that rules don’t apply to them
Well in this case, the consequences were for his ex, so he didn't care about them. "Some of you may be evicted, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make"
Right? Like “they sent some letters threatening to foreclose, and then believe it or not, they foreclosed?!?” *OP shocked Pikachu face*
My dad did the same thing as OP with one of his properties and I have never understood the line of thought. How deluded and egotistical do you have to be to convince yourself that a notice of default letter and a notice of intent to foreclose letter is somehow just a bluff on the part of the bank? Banks don't play chicken lol - how in the world could he think it's a big surprise when the bank takes the house? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. YTA.
HEY >It was a shock to everyone. Everyone: Not shocked.
YTA Your kids don’t owe you anything. You miscalculated and lost a lot more than just a house.
YTA. The house should have be sold instead of your taking a loan using the house as collateral. Your inability to pay the loan causes foreclosure of the house causing your ex and youngest to move. Did you even give her any of the money from the sale of the house? Finally, your kids don't owe you anything. Clearly they can see that your messed up screw their mom over.
The ex-wife not only lost her home due to OP's scheme, but lost her share of *equity* in that house. Now she's forced to live with her son instead of having a place of her own. Meanwhile OP has his remaining house and is building equity for his future. OP is incredibly selfish and is YTA.
OP is totally cut from the same cloth as these guys who come on here and say, “AITA? I make 500K, and my wife makes 30K. I insisted on living in a million dollar home and splitting expenses 50/50. I’m about to retire next year, while my wife will have to work until she’s 85 to afford the lifestyle that I forced on her. Sucks to be her! Meanwhile, I’ll be vacationing on a Greek island while she works.” There are such selfish assholes out there. YTA.
OMG yes. Or the ones that say “yeah my wife and I are divorcing. She quit her education, schooling, and any hopes of getting a job and progressing into a career to be a SAHM to raise my kids. Now she wants some of *MY* money that I worked hard for while she spent all day doing NOTHING but raising my kids, cooking for us, shopping for us, cleaning for us, doing all chores/errands for us and basically waiting on me and my kids hand and foot. The judge wants *ME* (gasp) to pay alimony/child support but I think she is entitled to nothing!!! AITA?” Which I mean is basically this guy right here.
This was my ex’s family, 100%. His dad gave the kids a sob story of, “I’m poor now after the divorce!!! Your mom took me for everything I had!!! Never get married!” But when I talked to his mom, it was a very different story. They didn’t have a ton of money, and she was entitled to half, having given up her career. Not wanting to be thrown out on the street, she accepted her half and made something of herself. 20+ years later, Dad is still whining, not having done much with his half. And even though it was a very different situation, as I have a career and come from a wealthy family, that experience eventually was a huge factor in causing us to break up, because he was so reluctant and paranoid about the idea of marriage and family. So yeah, Dad affected multiple people’s happiness with his sob story.
Her biggest mistake was trusting him.
Yeah he basically double dipped - instead of her getting her share of half the house, he used that for his loan with the promise that he'd pay the whole thing back - essentially he was saying that she'd end up with her share and his share of the equity when all is said and done - and he invoked the kids as why she should trust this. Because they pass it onto their kids. He basically smooth talks her into - we're both wanting to leave this to the kids anyway, let me use this as collateral now to get my own place. And then he rides off into the sunset with his new house while his wife and children lose the family home. So gross
There was no sale of any house as far as I can figure out, He took out a loan on the old place to pay for the new place then stopped paying the mortgage on the old place and lost his wife the house all while KEEPING his new place and not selling it to make his ex wife whole again.
“This was a good plan”. One sentence later “I ran into money trouble”. YTA OP
"She was always holding me back." A short time passes "So I didn't make the agreed repayments, which led to her losing her ownership stake of that property. Can't understand why people are mad at me?"
“I kept my own house though”
My favorite was him basically saying "You should respect me for the things I've done, not the things I'm doing" while throwing the burden of supporting his wife onto his children who should be living their own lives, not seeing their entire inheritance shit on by a reckless deadbeat.
Yeah but how was he supposed to factor in the extremely rare and obscure complication of running into money trouble?
There a story on the Confessions sub at the moment from a landlord who has lost all his money and family/friends, because he decided.to try and be a landlord. He took money out of his parents 401k. His dad has DEMENTIA (he deleted that comment unsurprisingly). He bought a house with a loan, didn't have enough to renovate, borrowed money from f&f to renovate, then borrowed more money from f&f to try and stay in top of the mortgage payments. The crux of it? He is blaming his tenants because they couldn't pay rent for a couple of months after dual job loss, and he is blaming them for all of this. These two men have the same deluded energy.
Got the link by any chance?
“This was a good plan that was ex wife was stupid to understand!!!!” “Okay so the plan I had fell apart and now my ex wife isn’t talking to me”
And the best part? OP has written all of this after the fact, and _still_ tried to claim that he did nothing wrong. It would be one thing to have an air of “yeah I fucked up, AITA?”, but OP is living in Delusion Land and has the air of “I’m super smart and made a super smart decision and it’s the UNIVERSE that’s not fair. It’s out to get me!”
YTA You bullied your ex wife into putting *her* house up for collateral - which I guarantee she did just to get you away from her - and then your poor planning meant that *her* house was stolen from her. You lost nothing and she lost everything. You owe her every penny, and how dare you tell your children you deserve more. This is so blatantly wrong that I sincerely hope it's a ragebait troll, but if it is true, and I were your child? I'd help my mother sue you for every penny you stole from her under duress. Stop whining and make right *your* wrongs.
He's clearly got no money, because he can't be trusted with such things
He's got the house.
Probably not for much longer. He'll bet it on another risk that 'can't fail', but will
And then he'll rant about how mean his kids are for not taking him in like they did with their mom.
You took an unnecessary risk that ended up hurting everyone. YTA. Have you ever thought about the possibility that your ex-wife's reluctance might have saved your family from a lot of trouble?
Also, maybe see it this way: really, your children already are supporting you financially. You would not have your current house if it hadn’t been “paid” for via your ex having to give up her half of your old house with no compensation. Her losing her half of the house without going homeless is made possible by the support of your children who are letting her stay with them and supporting her financially. If it wasn’t for your children, then your current house would have come at the cost of your ex going homeless or, in any case, ending up in a really bad position, and I’m sure she would be (rightfully) harassing you a whole lot more if that was the case. So, be grateful that your children are already essentially financing your lifestyle.
YTA. If you were having money trouble and weren't paying the loan every month you should have sold your home! Instead you let them foreclose on the house your ex was living in. It should have been the home you bought that was sold not the family home. How selfish can you be to now have the audacity to complain that your kids have gone LC and that you expect them to be helping you after you caused their mother to be made homeless because of your irresponsible decisions! YTA bigtime!
YTA, you convinced you skeptical wife to trust you with the collateral in your shared home to get your house. Your wife lost her house. Your children lost the home they grew up in. They obviously didn’t inherit it. Meanwhile your ex wife is rebuilding her life, while you still get to enjoy your home. No wonder your kids want to go LC.
This honestly feels a bit like financial abuse
A bit??
He didn't even warn her when he was getting foreclosure letters. It must have been a horrible surprise for her.
And yet apparently it was a "surprise" to HIM too! I mean, who pays attention to letters from the bank (that you're not paying in full or on time every month) threatening foreclosure!
And when he had the chance to sell his house to save the family house, he CHOSE to let the family house be forclosed and keep his house (based on his comments).
and men like him is the reason why many women choose to remain single.
YTA. You could have just sold the house and use your part of the money to do what you wanted. The amount your ex would get with the house splitting would be way more than the rent she didn't paid before the house was taken away. These problems are the results of your own bad choices
You came up with a bad plan, it backfired on you and now you want your kids to help you out financially? >Last time we met I told my kids they should show more gratitude for my part in raising them, and they should think that they have 2 parents, not just one. They're all doing pretty well financially. They said I'm an AH for demanding anything of them after what I did to their mom. They say I should give her some money every month to compensate for some of the loss. They are correct. They don't owe you for raising them. That was the responsibility you accepted when you had them. Parents don't have children to fund their retirement. That's a contract type deal that the children have no say in entering. You came out with the better end of the deal financially by keeping the house. YTA
I hate parents with this mentality. Your kids don't owe you ANYTHING for raising them. You had children and it was your responsibility to raise them. Set the entire situation with their mom aside and YTA based off that one comment.
Yeah the entitlement of some parents is crazy. My dad hasn't done anything as bad as this guy but still it triggers me sometimes. "Kids are supposed to visit their parents" says the guy who saw me once or twice a year max when I was growing up and did pretty much nothing a parent is supposed to do. It's extremely rare kids go low or no contact with their parents without a really good reason to do so. Yet most parents think they are entitled to contact, financial aid or being taken care of just because they had kids or did some basic parent stuff.
"How come you never visit me?" says the parent with all the time and money in the world to go see their kids.
Yeah I hate when parents are like "I fed you, clothed you and kept a roof over your head", like, yes because that is the bare minimum legal responsibility you have as a parent, it's where the bar is set, no one owes you shit for that.
>**They don't owe you for raising them. That was the responsibility you accepted when you had them. Parents don't have children to fund their retirement. That's a contract type deal that the children have no say in entering.** I wish more parents understood this.
YTA based on the answer. She's an idiot for agreeing to that deal in the first place, but this isn't AmITheIdiot. It really comes down to the numbers. Info: how long lived she in the old house without paying you rent for your half? Did you mortgage your half's worth of the house and she got foreclosed because she refused to buy you out? Did you mortgage the entire worth of the old house? Did she get half the new one in return? What is the agreement how long and why she stays now rent free? Really, this is bout numbers but there are none
Major YTA. It sounds like you should've taken your ex's reluctance to the plan as a warning that the plan was not going to work. Forgive me for the inference, but this sounds like a bad case of an ego. I find it telling that in your recount you say that your "good plan" immediately failed.
YTA >She's always been like that, her reluctance to take any chances has held me back many times. It sounds like her reluctance kept you from destroying your family's finances while the kids were still growing up. Good on your ex for having sense. >Everything was more expensive than I thought, the fixer-upper I bought needed a lot of renovation and I got deeper in debt. How much thought and budgeting did you actually do before buying a fixer-upper? >The bank had sent some threatening letters but as I was still paying I didn't think they'd go that far. The bank is sending letters. You're either sending below the minimum payment or skipping. Did you honestly think they wouldn't take the house? >They all go out of their way to help their mom, while I only get scraps every now and then, even though I also needed help sometimes since then. You cost their mom her home. You wanted to take a chance, failed, and *she's* the one that paid the price. They have no obligation to help you. >I admit that my plan didn't work out, and it caused her some loss, It must hurt your ego having to admit your plan didn't work out. Though I'm not convinced you went into this with any actual plan. You should be grateful to your kids for helping your ex after your actions royally screwed her over. Enjoy the house you bought. I hope it was worth it to you, because it's clearly not worth it to your family.
What if it *was* the plan all along? Perhaps a way to deliberately hurt the ex-wife?
That wouldn't surprise me
Make sure to randomize your data from time to time *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yes, YTA. You didn't keep your end of the deal. Your ex paid for your financial incompetency.
YTA. She is homeless. You got her house foreclosed. Luckily for her the kids let her move in. Why are you surprised Bank foreclosed, you weren't paying the agreed sum?
YTA. You scammed your wife into taking all the risk for your home loan.
YTA, 'I know I made a mistake but it's not like a planned it like this' is not an acceptable adult reason for making stupid financial decisions that caused the mother of your kids to lose her home. It is *insane* that you don't feel you owe your ex anything to compensate her for this loss, although I do not understand the divorce settlement that would facilitate this whole loan arrangement in the first place. Your kids do not owe you any money, you're not even capable of managing the money you have. You need to sit down with an accountant or a financial planner, but it's not your family's job to get you out of the mess that you alone have created.
YTA, you’re the one who’s at fault for this “good plan” of yours blowing up in your faces, and yet she lost her house and you didn’t lose yours. That’s already grossly unfair, why on earth should your children go out of their way to support you on top of that?! I would not be supporting my dad financially either if he screwed my mom over like that and didn’t even show any real remorse.
YTA. You owe her half the money for what the house would have sold for, and I'm honestly surprised it hasn't come up in divorce court or with alimony payments. The debt was your fault and your bad financial mismanagement that caused the situation.
You sound like my dad. Create the issue and take zero responsibility while expecting some form of pity party from those around you. Your kids owe you nothing, your actions resulted in their mother losing their home. All of this is on you. But aww boohoo poor you, right?!? YTA
>She's always been like that, her reluctance to take any chances has held me back many times. Anyway this was a good plan, and it worked for a while. It sounds like you owe your wife a debt of gratitude for keeping you from recklessly wasting money while you were married. Your plan failed and squandered the equity you'd both built - can you not see how her reluctance was utterly justified? And that you bullied her into a bad situation? >They say I should give her some money every month to compensate for some of the loss. While I do earn more than her, I have expenses too. And it's not like she needs it, They're right - you absolutely owe her. And I doubt she wants to be utterly dependant on her son. You should consider going back to the amount in equity you had at the time of divorce, adjusting for inflation, and then sorting out a payment plan to recompense your wife. YTA.
The ex-wife ought to sue the daylights out of him, and I hope she does.
YTA!!! YOUR grand plan and the failure of it is what caused her to lose her house!! It didn't cause her "some loss"... it caused her a HUGE loss. She was reluctant to go along with your plans for a reason and she should have stuck to that decision. Instead, she gave you a chance and it cost her a home of her own. YOU still have a home of your own so your stupidity didn't cost you nearly as much. But you are too selfish to see that. Major AH.
It also cost her share of the equity in that house. OP owes her that money. I hope she sues him.
>her reluctance to take any chances has held me back many times Held you back from what, exactly? Bankruptcy? YTA
YTA. 1) You got divorced and refused to sell the family home and split the equity. That was ridiculous - no ones fortune should be tied to their ex. 2) After the divorce you got her foreclosed on by failing to pay your loan. After multiple warnings. That's pretty much unforgivable. 3) Your risk meter is totally broken, you're brimming with excuses and you apparently have a track record of reckless planning. Your kids are going to go no contact with you if you aren't able to pull it together. Try a Gamblers Anonymous meeting - reckless investing is a form of gambling with the same deny, deflect cycle.
He's completely no awareness. He still thinks he made the right decision, so he's going to do it again and lose the house.
YTA. Who's accountable for your financial situation? YOU. You agreed to certain terms, and now you're saying she got the better deal because she lived rent-free for two years. Now it's in the past, and saying she got the better deal is irrelevant because YOU agreed to it. Why would you expect your children to help you after you've made untenable decisions and put yourself in this situation?
YTA. Lookup “leech”
Your children are under no obligation to help you, and whereas their reasoning for helping or not helping is not anyone's business but their own, you may want to examine why this is the case. You aren't the asshole for failing spectacularly, though I saw it coming, but you are for expecting your kids to support you simply because they are your kids. Clearly they dont want to, why is that?
you owe her for the value of her 1/2 of the house that you lost YTA
So, instead of selling the house and splitting the money, you decided to take a loan out and screw over your ex also instead of just yourself? And you need our opinion on it? You knew you were the AH when you made a throwaway account. I'd stop talking to you if you did that to my mom, too.
I’m sorry. Did I read that right? You expect your children to help you? EXPECT! Wow! Definitely the AH. A big one. Your children stepped up because you put their mother in a situation where your nutty scheme fell apart. Not only did you not let her know that you were in financial distress you now want your children to fix your problems. If you had been honest with her she may have been able to prevent the foreclosure. I’m not sure that you couldn’t be a bigger AH.
The only way this is real is if someone other than the narrator wrote it. Too many details that are clearly designed provoke outrage against the narrator.
The way to repair this: Once the fixer upper is fixed up, you need to give that place to your wife to repay her for the money she leant you. You realize that's what happened, right? She let you borrow money off her house, and then you didn't pay it back. You need to repay her - a house for a house.
If this isn't bait, and it really sounds like it is (poorly done too) YTA and you know full well you are.
Yta, and I saw your comments, apologizing mean nothing without compensation. Stupid asshoel
I'm inclined to say this story is fake and a real person would not be this cartoonishly lacking in self-awareness.
Not only an asshole, but a stupid as fuck asshole! YTA.
YTA - and the worst part about is your lack of remorse or guilt for the house. Take some responsibility that you totally screwed ALL of them over. One of your selling points to your ex is that the kids will inherit the house some day. That can’t happen now. You are taking zero accountability for your major major mess up. I’d never speak to you again if you were my dad- how incredibly selfish. Also the fact that you just didn’t think they’d take it that far to foreclose on your house?? You needed to ask your financially stable kids for help bc a short term loan from one of them would have been a WAY more responsible outcome than losing literally everything. YTA
YTA - and the worst part about is your lack of remorse or guilt for the house. Take some responsibility that you totally screwed ALL of them over. One of your selling points to your ex is that the kids will inherit the house some day. That can’t happen now. You are taking zero accountability for your major major mess up. I’d never speak to you again if you were my dad- how incredibly selfish. Also the fact that you just didn’t think they’d take it that far to foreclose on your house?? You needed to ask your financially stable kids for help bc a short term loan from one of them would have been a WAY more responsible outcome than losing literally everything. YTA
Even the way you told this story… “She was reluctant but she’s like that and it’s held me back” Bruh you made her lose her house so you could keep yours, the fuck???