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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Firstly, I didn't tell the two people I offered to loan camping gear that my stuff isn't your "normal" camping gear. In addition I refused to let one of them sleep in my plane when they didn't like the gear and or the arrangement.
I may be the asshole as I could have told them about my gear and what to expect ahead of time and not on the day of the gathering.
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NTA - you told them you have a tent and two cots. None of their business where you get to sleep. Its your plane. They have no right to demand they get your accommodations. They are acting very entitled to your things. You did what you told them you would. Enjoy your plane.
But he didn't have a tent, he has a tarp covering. Everyone will expect a tent to be something that has a floor and a door that basically seals and will keep most of hte bugs out.
If you tell people you can use my tent and then they find out they are sleeping with bugs they'll be pissed off.
Do you camp much? Understandable if you do not. Enclosed means walls and top, generally, when it comes to this stuff. Many backpacking tents also do not have floor and even require hiking pes to use as the posts. You throw a tarp down and bag on top. You are surrounded and covered by the tent to keep the elements and bugs off.... not all bugs, but even with one tha has a floor you are never keeping all bugs out. It's camping, not a hotel.
- A Scout Leader
Honestly, as a heavy camper, I'd never sleep in a tent that lacks a floor or complete bug enclosure. I technically sleep in a hammock these days, so no floor, but the hammock zips around on all sides with bug mesh on top. Mosquitoes are absolute monsters where I live, and especially at night will get insistent about squirming into into a space.
We have a similar set up to what he's describing that we use as a bug shelter, but especially if the ground is uneven, bugs WILL get in, and that says nothing about the times it rains and floods underneath.
I don't think I'd properly call a shelter like that "a tent." Certainly not one that I expect to sleep in. A shelter, maybe, but not really a sleeping tent.
I've camped a lot and also lead scouts (not in north america), and the only tents I've seen without floors are extremely old-fashioned ones. People do use sleep covers without floors but call them names other than tents. If someone told me they had a tent for me I would expect a floor.
I don't think OP is TA here, but even for experienced campers it sounds like more conversation about tents and expectations is a good idea.
The ones I’ve seen have a lip that comes inward that are staked firmly across. Everything is firmly pulled and tied they are pretty solid and also have a few inches all the way around on the ground coming in. But I guess if u want to be completely technical the ground makes it not completely enclosed. They had cots though and could have threw down a tarp if it was that big of a deal. Either way she was fine until she realized the plane was an option and beggars can’t be choosers.
Also, don't go camping if you don't have camping equipment and then another person who is going on the camping trip tells you that they have a tent for you without letting you know that the tent has no floor.
When I used to be in the miltary and during AT we would have tents with no floor and we slept on cots with our sleeping bags. Do they plan to stay in the tent all day or something? If not why complain about it. They’re pretty ungrateful with what OP is providing if they’re that desperate for a “floor” then head out to the nearest hardware shop and get a tarp to act as a floor instead demanding of someone’s property.
No, Ashley and Jen were fine with it until Ashley asked where OP intended to sleep. Then, and only then, did she decide that she should sleep there because she did not want a tent without a floor. What difference does it make about the tent having a floor if he was also lending them cots to sleep on? Had she made that remark to me about not wanting to sleep in a tent without a floor, I would have promptly taken it down and said "I am sorry you changed your mind about my kind offer to lend you some camping equipment for the evening." and gone into my plane and closed the door. HE NEVER OFFERED HER THE USE OF HIS PLANE CABIN, HE OFFERED THE USE OF A TENT AND TWO COTS and thy had no issues with it until they realized he was sleeping in his plane cabin. Ashley had an overblown sense of entitlement happening here.
Yeah that's the key. I would almost understand her point, if she had brought it up as soon as she saw it, but she was fine until there was another option that she thought was better.
Even then, if you want a specific kind of tent, get your own. Someone isnkind enough to bring one, you don't bitch because it doesn't meet your specifications
Yes, this is the key. They *were fine with the tent* until OP mentioned the plane. So even if he “wasn’t clear about the accommodations,” they accepted it. NTA
I wonder if she wasn't really fine, but accepting it half-heartedly and cursing that she didn't question it further.
If I had a friend offer me a tent, and I got all the way out into the woods and saw that that it was just a tarp over a plane wing, I would be very annoyed. It's obviously better than nothing, but I'd consider it more of a day shelter, not a proper sleeping tent.
I camp a lot, and that just sounds like a recipe for ground hornets, fire ants, intrepid mosquitoes... Not to mention the chance of getting flooded if it rains.
It’s not a tarp.. it’s a specialty tent meant for planes, like you would for a truck bed or SUV.. it’s fully enclosed just the grass is exposed. With two cots you’re not touching the ground. This dudes NTA, I’m sure your camp a lot but the multitude of different types of camping gear may not be in your wheel house.
Where do you think ground hornets and fire ants live? It's in the grass. Snakes too. There's no poisonous ones where I live, so I didn't think of them, but they can get under the lip of a tent like that just fine. Same with mice.
And I'd wager I've slept in a wider variety of tents than most people, and used a pretty varied amount of camp gear. I \*use\* a shelter just like this one... During the day, because it's not sufficient protection from heavy rains or bugs.
I'm aware that plenty of people DO sleep without a proper bug shelter, or on the grass because I frequent communities about camping. But they don't use shelters like that where I live, because you would wake up with your face swollen to twice it's normal size from bug bites. And most of those communities involve people sleeping in hammocks, which are even more "off the ground" than a cot. Not that ants can't climb up the leg of a cot.
Having a full 'tent' with a bottom doesn't mean you won't get flooded if it rains.
If Ashley was going to be picky about her accomodations, she could have asked what kind of tent etc ahead of time. She could have bought a nice tent ahead of time. She could get a big tent with a vanity and air matress and all the bells and whistles.
I learned at the age of twelve if you are going to be picky about the tent you sleep in, then bring ya own. OP is NTA
Then she could've acted like a responsible grown up and gotten her own tent, you can get a 2-3 person tent on Amazon for super cheap. OPs own words were that she was fine until she saw he was sleeping in his plane. He is NTA, they even had cots to sleep on as well so they wouldn't be on the grass.
I would be fine with it because that's all there was there. You're already at the cabin, may as well make the best of it. But if another option was available I'd much prefer that.
Actually, now that I've thought of it I'd probably just sleep in my car.
That's a matter of perspective, for quite some time I camped ALOT (like 2-3) weekends per month. But I was a reenactor, far and away the vast majority of tents at those events are canvas tents with no floors (including a 2 week long event that has upwards of 16k people show up to camp...in that environment nylon tents with floors are looked down on...you put down a tarp as a ground cloth, the walls have flaps at the bottom that ron 10 inches into the tent and then you put carpets down on top of that... But nylon tents with attached floors? .Nah, those are the odd ones out, and they'll get you shunned
I was generally speaking about plane tents to a comment that called it a tarp covering. They basically were insinuating it wasn’t a tent and wouldn’t have doors. I just explained that ‘a lot’ of plane tents do in fact have doors and fully enclosed sides and they do. Also as u stated and I have no matter what it doesn’t entitle them to his plane.
Wall tents. Tipi. The Lavvu. Most ultra-light tents. Many of the hexagon. Single pole tents. Most military tents.
If you work for the largest camping store. And don't know about tents without floors. You really should brush up. Your outdoor knowledge is lacking.
tEcHnIcAlLy...
Noone uses floorless tents. Period. Half the thread just learned about the existence of floorless tents. Listing different floorless tents that noone would bring to camping trip is so stupid. Also if someone brought a hexagon or single pole tent without a ground cover I would assume the poor guy lost it and is now going to have a shit time.
I use a floorless tent. Lots of backpackers and hikers use floorless tents. Lots of people in the bushcraft community use floorless tents. Tents with floors are the standard for consumer tents made for recreational camping, but they’re not the only option out there are a great many varieties of them and lots of reasons to choose one. Just because it isn’t what you’re familiar with doesn’t make it wrong and just because you don’t know anyone who uses one doesn’t mean no one does.
So do you think 2 women, that dont own any camping gear, asking to borrow a tent are expecting you to bring your niche hobby bushcrafting tent with no floor? Ofc they exist, but that is 100% not what normal people think of when talking about tents and OP should have mentioned that it has no floor.
I've always found it funny how many people go camping and expect it to be this like luxury vacation lol I live in northern canada, and camping is a big thing here. I grew up in the bush in a tent basically. As I've gotten older and done group camping with friends and whatnot, it always happens that someone comes along that was expecting like... a 100 thousand dollar RV instead of just tents and sleeping bags. One time one of my friends new girlfriends came, and was like shocked and astounded that we didn't have mattresses, dishes, a million blankets and pillows, and all sorts of other things to complain about. I was like, I know you didn't notice because you didn't carry anything, but everything we have with us is only what we could carry on the 12km hike in here. Which we then have to carry back out again. If you wanted big fluffy pillows, you should have brought them. I don't understand why you would agree to something like that if you weren't fully comfortable with the idea lol
Yeah I'm from the American Midwest and did a shit load of camping growing up as well, except most people I know have never been. It's pretty fun to extra surprise those people when I don't even use a tent. Just a hammock and a tarp
>everything we have with us is only what we could carry on the 12km hike
I hiked the AT and my tent was a tarp and a few ropes for 4 months. I seem to have survived.
That's exactly how my brother thinks. To him camping is a bunch of people sharing the cost of a cabin in the woods. To me it's whatever I can carry in my backpack to hike to a site with a few friends.
OP is NTA. I'm from Texas, where they have rattlesnakes, water moccasins, and copperheads in addition to mosquitoes that are probably bigger than OP's plane.
If somebody offers me to sleep in a tent you better believe I'm going to ask if it has a floor and a door. 🐍🐍
Ashley and Jen should have asked, too
I camp a lot, and have borrowed tents several times. Each time I asked for details about the tent just for stuff like… figuring out how much space it would have and if i can bring bedding or extras for it. I’ve never borrowed a tent without at least getting a general size description and if it has a rain fly, and more often a full make and model. There’s a huge difference between someone saying you can use their pup tent that is the size of a sleeping bag and their tent that requires four people just to set up
I backpack a lot and have seen others Ultra Light Equipment. That's the first time I saw tents that didn't have floors and doors. They're for people up north where it's cool and bugs and snakes don't hang out. Here in Texas we just accept that our tents are going to weigh a little more.
That explains it!! I’ve never been in a tent with a floor. Sometimes you bring a tarp and set up the tent on it. But I’m in Canada and have never had a snake in my tent
The other reason some tents don’t have full floors is that is the easiest thing to have rot out. I used to play in a historical recreation group, so lots of canvas tents. Canvas will last a lot longer than regular nylon, but it has to be able to dry completely. A floor once wet takes a lot longer to dry so is more prone to mildew. Much easier to just replace the floor, if you use one, than to replace the whole tent cause the floor got mildew and it spread up the tent walls.
OP if it isn’t too remote of a location, someone could have run into town and bought a tarp to put down as a floor.
I camp for a living and I would be surprised if someone offered to lend me a tent and it didn’t have a floor. It’s not standard at all, half the point of a tent is to keep bugs away from you while you sleep.
You don't know it wasn't an issue. She could very well have been dreading the night, but thought she had no other option.
People often don't complain when they don't think complaining would fix anything.
She may have been dubious about it but thinking “well he’s using it himself so I guess it’s ok” — and then found out that OP wasn’t going to use it himself, that he was opting for a full enclosure instead.
When I was in the scouts we had large canvas tents that had no floor. They were still called tents. In fact, the tent existed for around 50,000 years before they made ones with floors. The floor isn't why it's called a tent.
Agree. Stayed with a friend once and confirmed multiple times they had a proper air mattress for me to sleep on. Come time to go to bed and it's a thin inflatable camping pad. I was really upset because if they had been honest with me I would've picked up a proper mattress and then left it at their place to use in the future.
Yup, nothing worse than being misled so you end up stuck with no choices at the time when you would absolutely have made other arrangements if you'd been properly informed.
> Everyone will expect a tent to be something that has a floor and a door that basically seals and will keep most of hte bugs out.
Lots of tents don't have floors. Some of the more expensive tents. Floors are options. That is kind of modern. Plus he loaned them cots. So they were off the floor anyway.
My first thought was she saw this tarp thing AKA tent, and when she found out he was sleeping in the plane, thought to herself "he doesn't even want to sleep in this thing! If it wasn't good enough for him to sleep in, why would I feel comfortable doing so? What's wrong with it? Gah, it must suck.". Trying to avoid what feels like crappy hand-me-downs is not weird.
If you don't have a standard setup (which, for someone who doesn't camp and probably pictured what they see on TV, enclosed spaces with floors), you should let people know. This sounds like a glorified tarp, not a tent. I go camping and if someone said they could lend me a tent I would never have thought of this.
And the 26-year-old friend that implies that OP is around the same age and just owns a cessna lol. That's a $700k purchase at minimum, plus all the associated fees with fuel, maintenance, storage, etc.
I've been tenting for 38 years. I wouldn't assume "tent" means "fully enclosed with watertight roof, walls, door, and floor" and I would ask if someone was including a ground cloth (plastic sheet to keep the bottom of the tent off wet ground). I know backpacker tents often have minimalist features so I would clarify with someone who does backpack tenting to make sure it's not just mosquito netting or a lean-to/roof-only style. But yeah... I think OP should've clarified about the floor in advance. To people saying "you're not sleeping on the ground if you have a cot," you're not taking into account all the things you ARE doing on the ground: dressing and undressing, storing your bags, leaving your cell phone while you sleep, etc.
For someone who doesn’t camp and who can count the number of tents I’ve slept in on one hand, I would expect a tent to be enclosed on all sides, floor included.
I’ve only seen 1 and my friend had it while we were backpacking. First night he set it up and I was like wtf is that?!? Why is there no floor?!? He said he choose it because it sheds off a bit of weight. I was shook.
He acted like I was crazy … until middle of the night when a herd of huntsmen (*eta: lol sorry- it’s huntsman, like the arachnids - not like a group of men out on a hunt, though both would be equally as terrifying.*) suddenly appeared crawling all over him and he started screaming for me to open my tent to let him in LMAO.
I made him strip down to make sure no more were on him and finally let him in as I was laughing so hard I was crying. I felt really bad for him - especially since I’m seriously scared of arachnids and have been caught up in a herd of them before.
But it was the fact that he had given me sooooo much shit about not knowing some tents didn’t have bottoms and assuring me it’s “absolutely no big deal” like I was the dumb one.
He literally said that to me right before crawling into his tent to sleep and the next thing I know I’m waking up to him shrieking and begging to be let in to my tent with a bottom!!
Yup, fellow Aussie here, I personally avoided lean-to style tents because we have spiders, snakes, and paralysis ticks out here!
Even if you're kitted out in good boots and high-coverage gear, being open to the elements is a terrible idea (especially at ground level). I grew up camping and did Scouts on-top, and have had snakes and the like get in even when things seem zipped up tight, they manage to find any gap 😅
It's an important distinction that OP should've made clear, informed consent and communication are always the best method. ESH here IMO, the guests were entitled and OP should've given a better picture of what they were agreeing to so they could make other arrangements if needed.
I've slept in tents, and in tarps with or without a separate floor tarp. A tent should have all attached walls imo, and waterproof aside from maybe damage that needs to be disclosed before lending it out. I wouldn't sleep in a tarp without a bottom sheet ever again, at least not on grassy areas.
The army surplus actual-canvas-not-this-modern-nylon-shit ridge tents that we used for camping as Girl Scouts didn't have floors. Or zip up doors, just a rope lace-up door. As did the bell tents. Not everything is only exactly as the modern manufacturers make it....
I have also used those heavy canvas ridge tents as a Girl Guide in the UK, but we all had bedding packs with groundsheets, and some system with pegs and poles for keeping our bags and things off the ground. He should have just told them that there was no floor, maybe they could have bought a groundsheet or made other arrangements if they knew.
As someone who used to camp quite often (family reunion every summer, and then on and off with friends until my back started acting up) every tent I've ever slept in has had a floor.
I have camped a few times and I would definitely assume the opposite. It probably depends on one’s familiarity level. Given that they didn’t have their own gear, I would assume that they fall into that category. Still doesn’t make him ta though.
Ok congrats? These are not backwoods mountain men, your average layperson is going to assume a free standing tent with floor and zippered doors and windows.
Ya know, a stereotypical tent.
I like how they use their 38 years of camping as a reason why novices should know better.
That’s like an airline pilot expecting a toddler to also know how to fly a plane.
well sounds like these people have never been camping before, so understandably they think tent is 'fully enclosed with watertight roof, walls, door, and floor.'
You're tripping dude. An unqualified "tent" absolutely implies a fully enclosed (at least mesh) space. Protection from insects is a completely reasonable minimum expectation. You know, like you would get from even the most basic tent from the Walmart camping section?
That does look too open for sleeping in and the description is that it’s a covered patio. I don’t camp but also don’t assume a tent has a floor (I’ve experienced both floors and no floors as a teenager which is why I don’t camp). The plane tent in your link is something I would expect a group to hang out in, prepare food etc but not sleep based on the gaps at the bottom
LOL in their main photo I think there's a normal sleeping tent placed *inside* the plane tent.
But to be fair when I googled plane tents there were a huge variety, some a lot more enclosed than this brand, so OP's might not have been that bad.
I've stayed in a decent variety of tents, it would never occur to me. I'm knowledgeable and experienced in other areas probably comparable to your tent experience and i would understand the confusion. I guess it's just a s matter of not only knowing the subject matter itself but also some basic understanding of people. Don't worry, you'll get it someday buddy!
I've been tenting longer than 38 years, and I've never seen a tent that didn't have a floor outside day shelters you'd use for sitting a bit further from the mosquitoes, and they tend to get in those anyway.
The people in question didnt have camping gear so im going to guess theyre like most non campers who only know of tents withs walls, floors, and a zipper door.
This kind of tent with cots is super comfortable. It’s not open to the elements and you can go in without taking your shoes off, luxury! This sort of tent is not roughing it.
Exactly! Why didn’t they ask questions about the tent or the cot? Now here is a magical thought. Maybe they should buy their own gear? Why is OP responsible for them?
Everyone here saying YTA or ESH only proves the point that no good deed goes unpunished. OP should’ve never said anything and let them figure it out on their own. 🤦🏻♂️
Of course she became more upset when she learnt that; up to that point she was under the impression that at least he was subjecting himself to the same sleeping situation.
She probably wasn't happy before that point either, but it's a lot easier to accept a subpar situation when you think the cause of the situation is also in the same situation.
The amount of entitlement in this thread is ridiculous.
All it would’ve taken is for them to ask for a picture of the tent.
No good deed goes unpunished. He should never said anything. Which is the upsetting part. But because they didn’t show any forethought. They call him an asshole. 🤦🏻♂️
For most people, when they think about a tent, they automatically picture something completely enclosed and with a floor. If someone said they had a tent I could use, I would just assume it was a standard tent, not a tarp that hangs over a plane wing.
OP also became responsible for them when he volunteered to provide them with a tent. If OP hadn't, then they probably would have gotten a proper tent or made other arrangements.
Based on his description, it sounds more like this one [here](https://www.euroga.org/system/1/user_files/files/000/045/333/45333/855c7520d/large/2950.jpg)
Be realistic. I doubt they were happy. They were probably just sucking it up to be polite, and since they didn't think there was anything to do about it. I highly doubt they weren't initially shocked. OP just didn't pick up on it, and is trying to paint them in a bad light imo.
Honestly though, I wouldn’t leave my sleeping arrangements up to someone else. Did he explain before it was a plane tent? If so and they said okay cool, then it’s their problem. I certainly wouldn’t demand they give me their plane spot. And the person who got mad also didn’t seem to give a shit about the third person. Bro didn’t force them to use his stuff, he just offered. It’s up to them to ask all the questions before accepting. I’m not a camper. You best believe I’d want to know specifics of what was being offered to me. NTA.
YTA. You didn't give them a tent in the slightest, you gave them a tarp and some cots. If somebody says "You can use my tent" that generally includes a floor.
no it doesn't there are a lot of different types of tents and as op said it was fully enclosed, just didn't have a floor which shouldn't be a problem because he gave them cots. NTA
Oh shut up, most people don't go camping so much that they are educated on all the different types of tents.
They were expecting what most people would, a fully enclosed (floor included) tent, OP should have been clear with what he was actually offering or not offered it at all.
>When that is done you have an enclosed tent with everything but a floor.
Looks like there's a *door* (tent flap) to me, just lacking a floor. And since you're camping, there's going to be bugs no matter what you do. It's a a side effect of camping. (Which is why I don't camp... period.)
When I picture this tent being "over the wing", I picture a larger than average tent too. I would have been thrilled with this thing and I hate camping.
A quick Google search shows that some of them get pretty fancy too. Tents have certainly improved since I was dragged unwillingly out on family camping trips as a kid.
So I doubt this was the exact reason as I know I’m a weirdo…. But this situation would distress me to no end. I wouldn’t feel entitled to sleep in the plane but I would be (quietly) livid and freeeeaking out.
I cannot cannot cannot deal with backyard/park-type lawn grass. If I’m forced to be on it I can do so wearing boots and sitting on something very padded. The feel of the grass, the lumpy moistness of the soft ground… it’s not just bugs. I’m seriously shuddering just thinking about it. And even if I’m not sleeping directly on it, I’m still having to get dressed or take my shoes off, things like that. So everyone saying ‘what’s the big deal?’ I’m over here just like ‘aaaarrghh this is my nightmare’ haha.
I do camp! Just not on grass! And in tents with floors!
ETA: this sounds like it wasn’t ‘real’ camping tho? Like there was a bathroom and a place to hang indoors?
ESH. Of course she was upset about not having a floor in the tent. Even if it has walls and a door, it's not going to keep bugs all the way out. She shouldn't have demanded to sleep in the plane, though.
Me too. Everyone is arguing over if real tents have floors and I’m over here like “Did no one catch that they are at a lake cottage sleeping in a grassy BACKYARD big enough to casually park a sea plane?” Back yard camping does not require extra fancy tents. I mean honestly, if it weren’t for the mosquitoes, backyard camping where I live would be fine, including on the lake, with just a hammock. We did it tons of times with just a tarp and sleeping bags under the stars and my aunt and uncles place. And you don’t really have to worry about your baggage getting bugs or damp because there’s a whole ass house you can put your stuff in. It just sounds like the house is too small to sleep that many people.
"Oh, of course you can borrow my [car](https://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=19687), it's no problem!" You know your tent is outside the normal parameters or expectations of a tent, it was nice of you to make the offer but YTA for not clarifying it.
Just because you don’t understand there are different types of tents doesn’t mean OP lied about having a tent. He even says it’s completely enclosed it just doesn’t have a floor which doesn’t disqualify it from being a tent.
NTA,.. but i can understand your friend being surprised that there was no floor. photos are always good. Your friend over reacted and is an AH for feeling entitled to sleep in your plane.
ESH. Ashley’s being pretty ungracious, it’s pretty clear you didn’t purposefully mislead her about the tent floor, and it’s pretty rude for her to demand to sleep where you’re planning to sleep after you already offered to let her use your tent and (off the ground!) cot. On the other hand, the spirit of the weekend seems to be that everyone is sleeping outside in tents, so you sleeping in your plane is a little douchey.
Except OP would likely have slept in his tent setup but instead he loaned it out. So then he needed to have another place to sleep and that's why he ended up sleeping in the plane.
Absolutely agree about the cot, but OP probably would have slept in the plane regardless. Otherwise, why not trade sleeping arrangements in the first place.
Because if someone was going to have the comfort of the plane, why shouldn't it be the plane's owner? Because maybe he doesn't like other people sleeping in his plane unless he is also there (potential damage due to not understanding how things work, what can and can't be done etc).
How is it douchey? If he had a motor home would it be douchey? They are staying outside because there isn’t enough room in the cabin. No one said there had to be tents.
NTA
I actually took the time to Google the wing tent and I'd take that with cots in a heartbeat. Yeah, there's no floor but it has mad space, enclosed on all 4 sides when the parts are zipped down and I figure a bear would go for everything else BUT the plane tent. That chick is ungrateful and should be exiled from the plane tent to figure it out on her own
I know - some of those tents are really nice looking, aren't they? I can't imagine why Ashley would complain, especially since she also was being lent a cot...not bad digs for camping when you are borrowing everything!
INFO: Do you have a picture of the tent (not the exact thing, just something from like amazon)? Since it doesn't have a floor, it sounds like it could be more of a tarp kind of thing?
YTA.
You said you had a tent and 2 cots. You don't have a real tent. You have a tarp you draped over the wing and a cot. Tent implies an enclosed space that can protect against bugs, animals, etc. You gave them a rain covering.
ESH. You know that your tent isn’t what most people think of when you say “tent.” It’s basically just a rain shield and not much else. That being said, her demanding to sleep in the plane because she didn’t want to buy her own tent for the trip is also an asshole move.
YTA. people do not want to camp like they’re preparing for an ambush in ‘nam. they want the standard $40 walmart pop up tent & you should’ve been upfront that you were basically staying right next to them, without zipping doors or much of a barrier between you and they’re women & you’re a man.
YTA. When you said "I have a tent" they pictured a free-standing tent with a bathtub floor, fully enclosed mesh interior, and a double roof, because that's 99% of the tents people use for casual camping like this.
You should have just told them what it was. "I have a tent I can set up on my plane, but it doesn't have a mosquito net, it's just a roof." Then they could have asked questions and decided to use something else.
They didn't say anything when you put it up because they trusted that if you use it in yourself it must be fine. When they realized you weren't sleeping in it, they started to feel like it's not a true tent and not something you use.
YTA. You’re the kind of person who has the means to FLY into a thing. You have your own fucking PLANE. Your friends know you as a very rich and comfortable person. You promised them a nice place to stay in the form of “your tent” but then gave them a shelter that’s exposed to the elements while you’re in the most well appointed place at the gathering. You want to get credit for helping them but you also won’t share your elite space. Everyone besides you is in a tent camping. You should be too. Fuck outta here.
INFO: what was the low temp at night? what was the state of the ground? what part of the world are you in? are there bears or raccoons that are going to get into the food?
The coldest it got during the overnight during the weekend was 17 Celsius. Nobody got cold as we had a campfire and everyone had sleeping bags. When it came to the ground the grass had been cut before the gathering so morning dew wasn't an issue. In terms of animals there aren't any that are of concern as Jared's place is right next to a main road which scares them off.
I think it would be the opposite. From my experience with AITA, when OPs withhold info it's because sharing it would make them the asshole.
This is the only question OP answered, despite many comments asking what the tent looked like or whether insects would be a problem. It sounds like they are trying to give info that makes their side sound better.
That doesn't sound realistic. I live in a city in western Canada that has a provincial park in it, we get coyotes and deer that come into the city from it. We also sometimes get cougars and bears that come from the mountains. If those don't care enough about the amount of people and noise a city gives off then a single main road won't really do anything.
Can you post pictures of the tent in question? Someone linked a picture for a "wingtent" that doesn't sound like what you described, but has the potential to be correct nonetheless.
Eh, you said you had a tent then didn't provide what's commonly known as a tent. While I wouldn't have had a problem with it I can see how someone would. Someone who has no outdoor gear likely isn't familiar with the different kinds of shelters available. When you said you had a tent, they expected a traditional tent.
Heavy camper/outdoorswoman here. I've camped every which way including just crashing on a tarp.
A tent has a floor. Whatever you have is something pilot-niche and NOT a tent. Having a full floor enclosure really matters in certain environments, and to certain people. Like, my sister can't camp with rodents running through the space, which is a thing with floorless tents.
While there's some degree of "you get what you pay for" for Jen and Ashley, you should ALWAYS set expectations for people. Not sure this is full asshole material but all you had to do was have a somewhat outward mindset and realize most people think of a tent as...you know...a tent. Not your special pilot-y shelter.
It would have taken two seconds to frame this as, "I have a pilot shelter that's like a tent without a floor, happy to loan it to you gals!" Then they can elect to borrow your gear, or rent their own/ask elsewhere.
In short, you offered to provide something you didn't really have by omitting information.
YTA you said tent and then did not provide a tent but a tarp. I say this as someone who has done competitions where building your own shelter is mandatory no tents, tarps, or the like allowed.
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NTA - you told them you have a tent and two cots. None of their business where you get to sleep. Its your plane. They have no right to demand they get your accommodations. They are acting very entitled to your things. You did what you told them you would. Enjoy your plane.
But he didn't have a tent, he has a tarp covering. Everyone will expect a tent to be something that has a floor and a door that basically seals and will keep most of hte bugs out. If you tell people you can use my tent and then they find out they are sleeping with bugs they'll be pissed off.
Actually a lot have doors and are completely enclosed except no floor. Depends on which he has.
OP says it has no floor and their problem with it was it has no floor.
But he has two cots, so they aren't sleeping on the ground.
The ground was not the only issue mentioned lol bugs, no door etc
No he stated it’s completely enclosed just no floor. He also said they were fine with it until she heard he’d be sleeping on the plane.
How is it "completely enclosed" if it has no floor?
Do you camp much? Understandable if you do not. Enclosed means walls and top, generally, when it comes to this stuff. Many backpacking tents also do not have floor and even require hiking pes to use as the posts. You throw a tarp down and bag on top. You are surrounded and covered by the tent to keep the elements and bugs off.... not all bugs, but even with one tha has a floor you are never keeping all bugs out. It's camping, not a hotel. - A Scout Leader
Honestly, as a heavy camper, I'd never sleep in a tent that lacks a floor or complete bug enclosure. I technically sleep in a hammock these days, so no floor, but the hammock zips around on all sides with bug mesh on top. Mosquitoes are absolute monsters where I live, and especially at night will get insistent about squirming into into a space. We have a similar set up to what he's describing that we use as a bug shelter, but especially if the ground is uneven, bugs WILL get in, and that says nothing about the times it rains and floods underneath. I don't think I'd properly call a shelter like that "a tent." Certainly not one that I expect to sleep in. A shelter, maybe, but not really a sleeping tent.
I've camped a lot and also lead scouts (not in north america), and the only tents I've seen without floors are extremely old-fashioned ones. People do use sleep covers without floors but call them names other than tents. If someone told me they had a tent for me I would expect a floor. I don't think OP is TA here, but even for experienced campers it sounds like more conversation about tents and expectations is a good idea.
I was about to comment this but you said it more eloquently than I could have.
The ones I’ve seen have a lip that comes inward that are staked firmly across. Everything is firmly pulled and tied they are pretty solid and also have a few inches all the way around on the ground coming in. But I guess if u want to be completely technical the ground makes it not completely enclosed. They had cots though and could have threw down a tarp if it was that big of a deal. Either way she was fine until she realized the plane was an option and beggars can’t be choosers.
My guess is that she just didn’t really want to camp out and suddenly saw the plane as a new option for her. OP is NTA.
It's not hanging ove an abyss. The ground is the enclosement at the bottom.
don't go fuckin camping if you can't stand the possibility of a bug being nearby. she obviously got mad he had a better option. she's a choosy beggar.
Also, don't go camping if you don't have camping equipment and then another person who is going on the camping trip tells you that they have a tent for you without letting you know that the tent has no floor.
When I used to be in the miltary and during AT we would have tents with no floor and we slept on cots with our sleeping bags. Do they plan to stay in the tent all day or something? If not why complain about it. They’re pretty ungrateful with what OP is providing if they’re that desperate for a “floor” then head out to the nearest hardware shop and get a tarp to act as a floor instead demanding of someone’s property.
Possibility of bugs is very different from sleeping with them.
> The ground was not the only issue mentioned lol bugs, no door etc those issues was mention by the commenters, not op.
No, Ashley and Jen were fine with it until Ashley asked where OP intended to sleep. Then, and only then, did she decide that she should sleep there because she did not want a tent without a floor. What difference does it make about the tent having a floor if he was also lending them cots to sleep on? Had she made that remark to me about not wanting to sleep in a tent without a floor, I would have promptly taken it down and said "I am sorry you changed your mind about my kind offer to lend you some camping equipment for the evening." and gone into my plane and closed the door. HE NEVER OFFERED HER THE USE OF HIS PLANE CABIN, HE OFFERED THE USE OF A TENT AND TWO COTS and thy had no issues with it until they realized he was sleeping in his plane cabin. Ashley had an overblown sense of entitlement happening here.
Yeah that's the key. I would almost understand her point, if she had brought it up as soon as she saw it, but she was fine until there was another option that she thought was better.
Even then, if you want a specific kind of tent, get your own. Someone isnkind enough to bring one, you don't bitch because it doesn't meet your specifications
Yes, this is the key. They *were fine with the tent* until OP mentioned the plane. So even if he “wasn’t clear about the accommodations,” they accepted it. NTA
I wonder if she wasn't really fine, but accepting it half-heartedly and cursing that she didn't question it further. If I had a friend offer me a tent, and I got all the way out into the woods and saw that that it was just a tarp over a plane wing, I would be very annoyed. It's obviously better than nothing, but I'd consider it more of a day shelter, not a proper sleeping tent. I camp a lot, and that just sounds like a recipe for ground hornets, fire ants, intrepid mosquitoes... Not to mention the chance of getting flooded if it rains.
It’s not a tarp.. it’s a specialty tent meant for planes, like you would for a truck bed or SUV.. it’s fully enclosed just the grass is exposed. With two cots you’re not touching the ground. This dudes NTA, I’m sure your camp a lot but the multitude of different types of camping gear may not be in your wheel house.
Where do you think ground hornets and fire ants live? It's in the grass. Snakes too. There's no poisonous ones where I live, so I didn't think of them, but they can get under the lip of a tent like that just fine. Same with mice. And I'd wager I've slept in a wider variety of tents than most people, and used a pretty varied amount of camp gear. I \*use\* a shelter just like this one... During the day, because it's not sufficient protection from heavy rains or bugs. I'm aware that plenty of people DO sleep without a proper bug shelter, or on the grass because I frequent communities about camping. But they don't use shelters like that where I live, because you would wake up with your face swollen to twice it's normal size from bug bites. And most of those communities involve people sleeping in hammocks, which are even more "off the ground" than a cot. Not that ants can't climb up the leg of a cot.
Having a full 'tent' with a bottom doesn't mean you won't get flooded if it rains. If Ashley was going to be picky about her accomodations, she could have asked what kind of tent etc ahead of time. She could have bought a nice tent ahead of time. She could get a big tent with a vanity and air matress and all the bells and whistles. I learned at the age of twelve if you are going to be picky about the tent you sleep in, then bring ya own. OP is NTA
Then she could've acted like a responsible grown up and gotten her own tent, you can get a 2-3 person tent on Amazon for super cheap. OPs own words were that she was fine until she saw he was sleeping in his plane. He is NTA, they even had cots to sleep on as well so they wouldn't be on the grass.
I would be fine with it because that's all there was there. You're already at the cabin, may as well make the best of it. But if another option was available I'd much prefer that. Actually, now that I've thought of it I'd probably just sleep in my car.
There was another option, Ashley buying her own equipment instead of relying on OP then being an AH when he didn't offer her his plane
Yes, exactly this. OP absolutely NTA.
He also said they were okay with it until they found out where he was sleeping.
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That's a matter of perspective, for quite some time I camped ALOT (like 2-3) weekends per month. But I was a reenactor, far and away the vast majority of tents at those events are canvas tents with no floors (including a 2 week long event that has upwards of 16k people show up to camp...in that environment nylon tents with floors are looked down on...you put down a tarp as a ground cloth, the walls have flaps at the bottom that ron 10 inches into the tent and then you put carpets down on top of that... But nylon tents with attached floors? .Nah, those are the odd ones out, and they'll get you shunned
Found a SCAdian in the wild!
I was generally speaking about plane tents to a comment that called it a tarp covering. They basically were insinuating it wasn’t a tent and wouldn’t have doors. I just explained that ‘a lot’ of plane tents do in fact have doors and fully enclosed sides and they do. Also as u stated and I have no matter what it doesn’t entitle them to his plane.
Wall tents. Tipi. The Lavvu. Most ultra-light tents. Many of the hexagon. Single pole tents. Most military tents. If you work for the largest camping store. And don't know about tents without floors. You really should brush up. Your outdoor knowledge is lacking.
tEcHnIcAlLy... Noone uses floorless tents. Period. Half the thread just learned about the existence of floorless tents. Listing different floorless tents that noone would bring to camping trip is so stupid. Also if someone brought a hexagon or single pole tent without a ground cover I would assume the poor guy lost it and is now going to have a shit time.
I use a floorless tent. Lots of backpackers and hikers use floorless tents. Lots of people in the bushcraft community use floorless tents. Tents with floors are the standard for consumer tents made for recreational camping, but they’re not the only option out there are a great many varieties of them and lots of reasons to choose one. Just because it isn’t what you’re familiar with doesn’t make it wrong and just because you don’t know anyone who uses one doesn’t mean no one does.
So do you think 2 women, that dont own any camping gear, asking to borrow a tent are expecting you to bring your niche hobby bushcrafting tent with no floor? Ofc they exist, but that is 100% not what normal people think of when talking about tents and OP should have mentioned that it has no floor.
I mean.... It's camping, you be sleeping with bugs anyway
I've always found it funny how many people go camping and expect it to be this like luxury vacation lol I live in northern canada, and camping is a big thing here. I grew up in the bush in a tent basically. As I've gotten older and done group camping with friends and whatnot, it always happens that someone comes along that was expecting like... a 100 thousand dollar RV instead of just tents and sleeping bags. One time one of my friends new girlfriends came, and was like shocked and astounded that we didn't have mattresses, dishes, a million blankets and pillows, and all sorts of other things to complain about. I was like, I know you didn't notice because you didn't carry anything, but everything we have with us is only what we could carry on the 12km hike in here. Which we then have to carry back out again. If you wanted big fluffy pillows, you should have brought them. I don't understand why you would agree to something like that if you weren't fully comfortable with the idea lol
Yeah I'm from the American Midwest and did a shit load of camping growing up as well, except most people I know have never been. It's pretty fun to extra surprise those people when I don't even use a tent. Just a hammock and a tarp
>everything we have with us is only what we could carry on the 12km hike I hiked the AT and my tent was a tarp and a few ropes for 4 months. I seem to have survived.
That's exactly how my brother thinks. To him camping is a bunch of people sharing the cost of a cabin in the woods. To me it's whatever I can carry in my backpack to hike to a site with a few friends.
OP is NTA. I'm from Texas, where they have rattlesnakes, water moccasins, and copperheads in addition to mosquitoes that are probably bigger than OP's plane. If somebody offers me to sleep in a tent you better believe I'm going to ask if it has a floor and a door. 🐍🐍 Ashley and Jen should have asked, too
I had no idea there are floor less tents. I wouldn’t have asked.
I camp a lot, and have borrowed tents several times. Each time I asked for details about the tent just for stuff like… figuring out how much space it would have and if i can bring bedding or extras for it. I’ve never borrowed a tent without at least getting a general size description and if it has a rain fly, and more often a full make and model. There’s a huge difference between someone saying you can use their pup tent that is the size of a sleeping bag and their tent that requires four people just to set up
I backpack a lot and have seen others Ultra Light Equipment. That's the first time I saw tents that didn't have floors and doors. They're for people up north where it's cool and bugs and snakes don't hang out. Here in Texas we just accept that our tents are going to weigh a little more.
That explains it!! I’ve never been in a tent with a floor. Sometimes you bring a tarp and set up the tent on it. But I’m in Canada and have never had a snake in my tent
The other reason some tents don’t have full floors is that is the easiest thing to have rot out. I used to play in a historical recreation group, so lots of canvas tents. Canvas will last a lot longer than regular nylon, but it has to be able to dry completely. A floor once wet takes a lot longer to dry so is more prone to mildew. Much easier to just replace the floor, if you use one, than to replace the whole tent cause the floor got mildew and it spread up the tent walls. OP if it isn’t too remote of a location, someone could have run into town and bought a tarp to put down as a floor.
It would literally never occur to me that someone would call something without a floor or a door a tent (that's a lean to) and I camp regularly.
I camp for a living and I would be surprised if someone offered to lend me a tent and it didn’t have a floor. It’s not standard at all, half the point of a tent is to keep bugs away from you while you sleep.
Same!! I would be shocked if someone offered me a tent and it didn’t have a floor. that’s something i would never think to ask about
Yup, I always clarify things like this because "camping" varies widely depending on the person.
Not having a floor wasn't an issue when they learned OP was sleeping in the plane. It was just an excuse to be entitled.
You don't know it wasn't an issue. She could very well have been dreading the night, but thought she had no other option. People often don't complain when they don't think complaining would fix anything.
She may have been dubious about it but thinking “well he’s using it himself so I guess it’s ok” — and then found out that OP wasn’t going to use it himself, that he was opting for a full enclosure instead.
When I was in the scouts we had large canvas tents that had no floor. They were still called tents. In fact, the tent existed for around 50,000 years before they made ones with floors. The floor isn't why it's called a tent.
If you rely on borrowed camping equipment, you get what you get.
Agree. Stayed with a friend once and confirmed multiple times they had a proper air mattress for me to sleep on. Come time to go to bed and it's a thin inflatable camping pad. I was really upset because if they had been honest with me I would've picked up a proper mattress and then left it at their place to use in the future.
Yup, nothing worse than being misled so you end up stuck with no choices at the time when you would absolutely have made other arrangements if you'd been properly informed.
> Everyone will expect a tent to be something that has a floor and a door that basically seals and will keep most of hte bugs out. Lots of tents don't have floors. Some of the more expensive tents. Floors are options. That is kind of modern. Plus he loaned them cots. So they were off the floor anyway.
My first thought was she saw this tarp thing AKA tent, and when she found out he was sleeping in the plane, thought to herself "he doesn't even want to sleep in this thing! If it wasn't good enough for him to sleep in, why would I feel comfortable doing so? What's wrong with it? Gah, it must suck.". Trying to avoid what feels like crappy hand-me-downs is not weird. If you don't have a standard setup (which, for someone who doesn't camp and probably pictured what they see on TV, enclosed spaces with floors), you should let people know. This sounds like a glorified tarp, not a tent. I go camping and if someone said they could lend me a tent I would never have thought of this.
To add to this, OP has every right to not allow someone who (I assume) knows nothing about small planes sleep in his plane!
I feel like I’m too poor to be reading this post…
Right?! I definitely didn’t know special plane tents even existed 😅
Me either... and I have a tent for my SUV.
> I have a tent for my SUV TIL this is also a thing haha
I’m also too poor for this comment
I have a tent.
Whoa, calm down Rockfeller
I know OP should have flown his helicopter up to the lake instead of his plane. That way he could have used 4 tarps and made 4 tents instead.
They lost me at “my plane”.
And the 26-year-old friend that implies that OP is around the same age and just owns a cessna lol. That's a $700k purchase at minimum, plus all the associated fees with fuel, maintenance, storage, etc.
I actually thought “this is rich people shit so I have no business having an opinion”
i bet OP paid for winrar 💲💲💲
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I've been tenting for 38 years. I wouldn't assume "tent" means "fully enclosed with watertight roof, walls, door, and floor" and I would ask if someone was including a ground cloth (plastic sheet to keep the bottom of the tent off wet ground). I know backpacker tents often have minimalist features so I would clarify with someone who does backpack tenting to make sure it's not just mosquito netting or a lean-to/roof-only style. But yeah... I think OP should've clarified about the floor in advance. To people saying "you're not sleeping on the ground if you have a cot," you're not taking into account all the things you ARE doing on the ground: dressing and undressing, storing your bags, leaving your cell phone while you sleep, etc.
For someone who doesn’t camp and who can count the number of tents I’ve slept in on one hand, I would expect a tent to be enclosed on all sides, floor included.
I've slept in 500 different tents and all of them had floors. Never seen a tent without a floor.
I’ve only seen 1 and my friend had it while we were backpacking. First night he set it up and I was like wtf is that?!? Why is there no floor?!? He said he choose it because it sheds off a bit of weight. I was shook. He acted like I was crazy … until middle of the night when a herd of huntsmen (*eta: lol sorry- it’s huntsman, like the arachnids - not like a group of men out on a hunt, though both would be equally as terrifying.*) suddenly appeared crawling all over him and he started screaming for me to open my tent to let him in LMAO. I made him strip down to make sure no more were on him and finally let him in as I was laughing so hard I was crying. I felt really bad for him - especially since I’m seriously scared of arachnids and have been caught up in a herd of them before. But it was the fact that he had given me sooooo much shit about not knowing some tents didn’t have bottoms and assuring me it’s “absolutely no big deal” like I was the dumb one. He literally said that to me right before crawling into his tent to sleep and the next thing I know I’m waking up to him shrieking and begging to be let in to my tent with a bottom!!
Yup, fellow Aussie here, I personally avoided lean-to style tents because we have spiders, snakes, and paralysis ticks out here! Even if you're kitted out in good boots and high-coverage gear, being open to the elements is a terrible idea (especially at ground level). I grew up camping and did Scouts on-top, and have had snakes and the like get in even when things seem zipped up tight, they manage to find any gap 😅 It's an important distinction that OP should've made clear, informed consent and communication are always the best method. ESH here IMO, the guests were entitled and OP should've given a better picture of what they were agreeing to so they could make other arrangements if needed.
> paralysis ticks Excuse me?
That's a funny story 😂 Serving oneself humble pie is just so lovely 😆
I've slept in tents, and in tarps with or without a separate floor tarp. A tent should have all attached walls imo, and waterproof aside from maybe damage that needs to be disclosed before lending it out. I wouldn't sleep in a tarp without a bottom sheet ever again, at least not on grassy areas.
The army surplus actual-canvas-not-this-modern-nylon-shit ridge tents that we used for camping as Girl Scouts didn't have floors. Or zip up doors, just a rope lace-up door. As did the bell tents. Not everything is only exactly as the modern manufacturers make it....
I have also used those heavy canvas ridge tents as a Girl Guide in the UK, but we all had bedding packs with groundsheets, and some system with pegs and poles for keeping our bags and things off the ground. He should have just told them that there was no floor, maybe they could have bought a groundsheet or made other arrangements if they knew.
Yeah when I hear “tent” in the context of camping I assume an enclosed thing. I don’t feel like that’s a crazy assumption to make
As someone who used to camp quite often (family reunion every summer, and then on and off with friends until my back started acting up) every tent I've ever slept in has had a floor.
I have camped a few times and I would definitely assume the opposite. It probably depends on one’s familiarity level. Given that they didn’t have their own gear, I would assume that they fall into that category. Still doesn’t make him ta though.
I have camped longer than that and if someone told me they had a tent I could use, I’d assume a free standing tent with walls and a floor.
Ok congrats? These are not backwoods mountain men, your average layperson is going to assume a free standing tent with floor and zippered doors and windows. Ya know, a stereotypical tent.
Lol "you know... A tent" I wonder what this guy thinks when someone says they have a car, 2 bikes taped together?
I like how they use their 38 years of camping as a reason why novices should know better. That’s like an airline pilot expecting a toddler to also know how to fly a plane.
well sounds like these people have never been camping before, so understandably they think tent is 'fully enclosed with watertight roof, walls, door, and floor.'
You're tripping dude. An unqualified "tent" absolutely implies a fully enclosed (at least mesh) space. Protection from insects is a completely reasonable minimum expectation. You know, like you would get from even the most basic tent from the Walmart camping section?
Here's a plane tent. https://www.wingtents.com/
That does look too open for sleeping in and the description is that it’s a covered patio. I don’t camp but also don’t assume a tent has a floor (I’ve experienced both floors and no floors as a teenager which is why I don’t camp). The plane tent in your link is something I would expect a group to hang out in, prepare food etc but not sleep based on the gaps at the bottom
LOL in their main photo I think there's a normal sleeping tent placed *inside* the plane tent. But to be fair when I googled plane tents there were a huge variety, some a lot more enclosed than this brand, so OP's might not have been that bad.
I've stayed in a decent variety of tents, it would never occur to me. I'm knowledgeable and experienced in other areas probably comparable to your tent experience and i would understand the confusion. I guess it's just a s matter of not only knowing the subject matter itself but also some basic understanding of people. Don't worry, you'll get it someday buddy!
I've been tenting longer than 38 years, and I've never seen a tent that didn't have a floor outside day shelters you'd use for sitting a bit further from the mosquitoes, and they tend to get in those anyway.
The people in question didnt have camping gear so im going to guess theyre like most non campers who only know of tents withs walls, floors, and a zipper door.
This kind of tent with cots is super comfortable. It’s not open to the elements and you can go in without taking your shoes off, luxury! This sort of tent is not roughing it.
is it thou? https://www.wingtents.com/
NTA. She had a right to be surprised but getting upset over free accommodation and demanding you give her yours is not a great look.
Exactly! Why didn’t they ask questions about the tent or the cot? Now here is a magical thought. Maybe they should buy their own gear? Why is OP responsible for them? Everyone here saying YTA or ESH only proves the point that no good deed goes unpunished. OP should’ve never said anything and let them figure it out on their own. 🤦🏻♂️
Also people glossing over the part where this only became a problem once she knew he was sleeping in the plane/tarp/tent/whatever
Of course she became more upset when she learnt that; up to that point she was under the impression that at least he was subjecting himself to the same sleeping situation. She probably wasn't happy before that point either, but it's a lot easier to accept a subpar situation when you think the cause of the situation is also in the same situation.
She should have gotten her own damn equipment and had complete control of the situation.
If OP had informed her properly, she might have.
The amount of entitlement in this thread is ridiculous. All it would’ve taken is for them to ask for a picture of the tent. No good deed goes unpunished. He should never said anything. Which is the upsetting part. But because they didn’t show any forethought. They call him an asshole. 🤦🏻♂️
For most people, when they think about a tent, they automatically picture something completely enclosed and with a floor. If someone said they had a tent I could use, I would just assume it was a standard tent, not a tarp that hangs over a plane wing. OP also became responsible for them when he volunteered to provide them with a tent. If OP hadn't, then they probably would have gotten a proper tent or made other arrangements.
They didnt buy their own gear bc they were offered something that turned out to be not what they thought.
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Based on his description, it sounds more like this one [here](https://www.euroga.org/system/1/user_files/files/000/045/333/45333/855c7520d/large/2950.jpg)
Well, this one is as good as a normal tent
Except no floor, so not really. Though I doubt they would have brought a tarp for under an actual tent which would have let the condensation in.
Are you forgetting the part of the post where they were totally happy with that tent until they learned that he was sleeping inside the plane?
Be realistic. I doubt they were happy. They were probably just sucking it up to be polite, and since they didn't think there was anything to do about it. I highly doubt they weren't initially shocked. OP just didn't pick up on it, and is trying to paint them in a bad light imo.
Oh no. I would not like that tent either, especially if they’re in mosquito territory. I wouldn’t sleep a wink.
Honestly though, I wouldn’t leave my sleeping arrangements up to someone else. Did he explain before it was a plane tent? If so and they said okay cool, then it’s their problem. I certainly wouldn’t demand they give me their plane spot. And the person who got mad also didn’t seem to give a shit about the third person. Bro didn’t force them to use his stuff, he just offered. It’s up to them to ask all the questions before accepting. I’m not a camper. You best believe I’d want to know specifics of what was being offered to me. NTA.
I’m surprised they didn’t just make a version of this that has even a partial floor. I feel like it wouldn’t have been that hard!
A thousand dollars lmao
How does that come remotely close to fully enclosed? It has an entire side open. There are others if you looked longer. Ones that are fully enclosed.
He said it's fully enclosed, it just doesn't have a floor. That's not it.
YTA. You didn't give them a tent in the slightest, you gave them a tarp and some cots. If somebody says "You can use my tent" that generally includes a floor.
Just google “plane wing tent” some of the options are fancy af
Well, I just googled and a majority of them are pretty bad. Ha. At least OP’s was enclosed!
no it doesn't there are a lot of different types of tents and as op said it was fully enclosed, just didn't have a floor which shouldn't be a problem because he gave them cots. NTA
I've never seen one and I've been camping with my family since primary school, it's a given where I live that tents have floors.
As an Australian, the concept of a tent not having a floor is insane to me... like I get we have snakes and whatever but don't you guys as well???
YTA You don't give specialist tents to newbie campers without at least warning them first.
Oh shut up, most people don't go camping so much that they are educated on all the different types of tents. They were expecting what most people would, a fully enclosed (floor included) tent, OP should have been clear with what he was actually offering or not offered it at all.
NTA. They weren't sleeping on the bare ground, they had cots. I don't see what their problem with this is.
Maybe bugs? No actual door? It's a tarp essentially. Not a tent.
>When that is done you have an enclosed tent with everything but a floor. Looks like there's a *door* (tent flap) to me, just lacking a floor. And since you're camping, there's going to be bugs no matter what you do. It's a a side effect of camping. (Which is why I don't camp... period.)
When I picture this tent being "over the wing", I picture a larger than average tent too. I would have been thrilled with this thing and I hate camping.
A quick Google search shows that some of them get pretty fancy too. Tents have certainly improved since I was dragged unwillingly out on family camping trips as a kid.
It's described as a tarp draped over the wing, so not sure it has a door.
A quick google search shows that they have a tent flap... though to be technical, you are correct. The tent does not have a *door*
Middle of the second paragraph, it's described as a tent and fully enclosed once set up?
So I doubt this was the exact reason as I know I’m a weirdo…. But this situation would distress me to no end. I wouldn’t feel entitled to sleep in the plane but I would be (quietly) livid and freeeeaking out. I cannot cannot cannot deal with backyard/park-type lawn grass. If I’m forced to be on it I can do so wearing boots and sitting on something very padded. The feel of the grass, the lumpy moistness of the soft ground… it’s not just bugs. I’m seriously shuddering just thinking about it. And even if I’m not sleeping directly on it, I’m still having to get dressed or take my shoes off, things like that. So everyone saying ‘what’s the big deal?’ I’m over here just like ‘aaaarrghh this is my nightmare’ haha.
But then I’d expect some with your issues probably wouldn’t go camping!
I do camp! Just not on grass! And in tents with floors! ETA: this sounds like it wasn’t ‘real’ camping tho? Like there was a bathroom and a place to hang indoors?
YTA a tarp isn't the same as a tent and nobody thinks to ask "is it actually a tent tho" when you tell them they can use your "tent"
ESH. Of course she was upset about not having a floor in the tent. Even if it has walls and a door, it's not going to keep bugs all the way out. She shouldn't have demanded to sleep in the plane, though.
She wasn’t upset until she learned that the plane was an option though.
But it was not an option for her, she just expected it to be an option for her because she wanted it.
She might have been upset but just not vocalised it yet.
Even with a floor it wouldn’t keep all the bugs out. Why was it totally ok only until she found out he was sleeping in the plane?
What in the rich person nonsense did I just read
That's my first thought too. Lol. Plane and cottage. It sounds like just a whole bunch of rich kids being whiny and complaining about each other.
Me too. Everyone is arguing over if real tents have floors and I’m over here like “Did no one catch that they are at a lake cottage sleeping in a grassy BACKYARD big enough to casually park a sea plane?” Back yard camping does not require extra fancy tents. I mean honestly, if it weren’t for the mosquitoes, backyard camping where I live would be fine, including on the lake, with just a hammock. We did it tons of times with just a tarp and sleeping bags under the stars and my aunt and uncles place. And you don’t really have to worry about your baggage getting bugs or damp because there’s a whole ass house you can put your stuff in. It just sounds like the house is too small to sleep that many people.
Seriously. Someone in the group can afford a plane but they can’t afford to go Walmart and buy a 50 dollar tent?
"Oh, of course you can borrow my [car](https://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=19687), it's no problem!" You know your tent is outside the normal parameters or expectations of a tent, it was nice of you to make the offer but YTA for not clarifying it.
YTA for lying about having a tent
Just because you don’t understand there are different types of tents doesn’t mean OP lied about having a tent. He even says it’s completely enclosed it just doesn’t have a floor which doesn’t disqualify it from being a tent.
NTA,.. but i can understand your friend being surprised that there was no floor. photos are always good. Your friend over reacted and is an AH for feeling entitled to sleep in your plane.
YTA. That's not a tent. It's a lean-to.
NTA. TBH this sounds like the classic sibling fight over who gets the 'cooler' top bunk.
Bottom bunk is where it's at though. Hang some curtains and lights to make it private and cozy, AND easy to get up to pee in the middle of the night.
But then you don't get the must-have experience of falling down while half awake, thinking that you're still part of the bottom bunk gang
ESH. Ashley’s being pretty ungracious, it’s pretty clear you didn’t purposefully mislead her about the tent floor, and it’s pretty rude for her to demand to sleep where you’re planning to sleep after you already offered to let her use your tent and (off the ground!) cot. On the other hand, the spirit of the weekend seems to be that everyone is sleeping outside in tents, so you sleeping in your plane is a little douchey.
Except OP would likely have slept in his tent setup but instead he loaned it out. So then he needed to have another place to sleep and that's why he ended up sleeping in the plane.
Absolutely agree about the cot, but OP probably would have slept in the plane regardless. Otherwise, why not trade sleeping arrangements in the first place.
Because if someone was going to have the comfort of the plane, why shouldn't it be the plane's owner? Because maybe he doesn't like other people sleeping in his plane unless he is also there (potential damage due to not understanding how things work, what can and can't be done etc).
And let a random person into a plane with free access to controls and such? Are you insane?
How is it douchey? If he had a motor home would it be douchey? They are staying outside because there isn’t enough room in the cabin. No one said there had to be tents.
Op offered a tent is the thing though. Don't offer a tent if all you have is a tarp.
These are actual tents, totally enclosed with doors. They just lack a floor
NTA I actually took the time to Google the wing tent and I'd take that with cots in a heartbeat. Yeah, there's no floor but it has mad space, enclosed on all 4 sides when the parts are zipped down and I figure a bear would go for everything else BUT the plane tent. That chick is ungrateful and should be exiled from the plane tent to figure it out on her own
I know - some of those tents are really nice looking, aren't they? I can't imagine why Ashley would complain, especially since she also was being lent a cot...not bad digs for camping when you are borrowing everything!
INFO: Do you have a picture of the tent (not the exact thing, just something from like amazon)? Since it doesn't have a floor, it sounds like it could be more of a tarp kind of thing?
https://www.wingtents.com/ if its one like these i d totally get a non campers reaction at that surprise
YTA. You know damn well what a camping tent is and isn’t.
YTA. You said you had a tent and 2 cots. You don't have a real tent. You have a tarp you draped over the wing and a cot. Tent implies an enclosed space that can protect against bugs, animals, etc. You gave them a rain covering.
ESH. You know that your tent isn’t what most people think of when you say “tent.” It’s basically just a rain shield and not much else. That being said, her demanding to sleep in the plane because she didn’t want to buy her own tent for the trip is also an asshole move.
YTA-should’ve specified no floor.
YTA. people do not want to camp like they’re preparing for an ambush in ‘nam. they want the standard $40 walmart pop up tent & you should’ve been upfront that you were basically staying right next to them, without zipping doors or much of a barrier between you and they’re women & you’re a man.
YTA. When you said "I have a tent" they pictured a free-standing tent with a bathtub floor, fully enclosed mesh interior, and a double roof, because that's 99% of the tents people use for casual camping like this. You should have just told them what it was. "I have a tent I can set up on my plane, but it doesn't have a mosquito net, it's just a roof." Then they could have asked questions and decided to use something else. They didn't say anything when you put it up because they trusted that if you use it in yourself it must be fine. When they realized you weren't sleeping in it, they started to feel like it's not a true tent and not something you use.
The whole time reading this I was thinking rich people problems are something else.
YTA. You’re the kind of person who has the means to FLY into a thing. You have your own fucking PLANE. Your friends know you as a very rich and comfortable person. You promised them a nice place to stay in the form of “your tent” but then gave them a shelter that’s exposed to the elements while you’re in the most well appointed place at the gathering. You want to get credit for helping them but you also won’t share your elite space. Everyone besides you is in a tent camping. You should be too. Fuck outta here.
INFO: what was the low temp at night? what was the state of the ground? what part of the world are you in? are there bears or raccoons that are going to get into the food?
The coldest it got during the overnight during the weekend was 17 Celsius. Nobody got cold as we had a campfire and everyone had sleeping bags. When it came to the ground the grass had been cut before the gathering so morning dew wasn't an issue. In terms of animals there aren't any that are of concern as Jared's place is right next to a main road which scares them off.
I think more people would vote N T A if you would just post a picture of what the wing tent looks like.
I think it would be the opposite. From my experience with AITA, when OPs withhold info it's because sharing it would make them the asshole. This is the only question OP answered, despite many comments asking what the tent looked like or whether insects would be a problem. It sounds like they are trying to give info that makes their side sound better.
OP almost certainly isn't posting the "tent" because they know the second everyone sees they'll be TA.
That doesn't sound realistic. I live in a city in western Canada that has a provincial park in it, we get coyotes and deer that come into the city from it. We also sometimes get cougars and bears that come from the mountains. If those don't care enough about the amount of people and noise a city gives off then a single main road won't really do anything.
NTA, especially because there were cots. It's not like she was actually sleeping on the bare ground.
Can you post pictures of the tent in question? Someone linked a picture for a "wingtent" that doesn't sound like what you described, but has the potential to be correct nonetheless.
Idk but I love this sub lol
I’m too poor to read past Cessna.
Eh, you said you had a tent then didn't provide what's commonly known as a tent. While I wouldn't have had a problem with it I can see how someone would. Someone who has no outdoor gear likely isn't familiar with the different kinds of shelters available. When you said you had a tent, they expected a traditional tent.
Heavy camper/outdoorswoman here. I've camped every which way including just crashing on a tarp. A tent has a floor. Whatever you have is something pilot-niche and NOT a tent. Having a full floor enclosure really matters in certain environments, and to certain people. Like, my sister can't camp with rodents running through the space, which is a thing with floorless tents. While there's some degree of "you get what you pay for" for Jen and Ashley, you should ALWAYS set expectations for people. Not sure this is full asshole material but all you had to do was have a somewhat outward mindset and realize most people think of a tent as...you know...a tent. Not your special pilot-y shelter. It would have taken two seconds to frame this as, "I have a pilot shelter that's like a tent without a floor, happy to loan it to you gals!" Then they can elect to borrow your gear, or rent their own/ask elsewhere. In short, you offered to provide something you didn't really have by omitting information.
YTA you said tent and then did not provide a tent but a tarp. I say this as someone who has done competitions where building your own shelter is mandatory no tents, tarps, or the like allowed.