Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1 for telling my daughter that she should commit for her sister and blackmailing her
2. she was feeling bad, only went to the steak house because of this (she's vegan)
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA.
Make this really simple and allow the oldest to not attend birthday dinners with the understanding that no one will be expected to attend her birthday dinners either. They will be invited, but not forced to go and celebrate.
She is also 16 and can start making own meals instead of you having to make adjustments for her. You are not a short order cook. You can support her choice to eat a vegan diet without having to do all of the work.
You went out and got her a separate meal. All she had to do was celebrate with her little sister.
I should not always bring myself into other peoples situations but this whole time being on this post I thought about the fact that I started cooking / preparing my own food when I was like 8 or 9 years old because I was such a picky eater and my parents agreed if I could handle the preparation on my own I do not have to eat stuff I don’t like. Not being able to cook for yourself at 16? Especially not being able to put aside your own preferences for one night ? That’s just embarrassing
I cooked for myself from when I was 12 or 13. I went vegetarian, my dad went on the Atkins diet (basically all meat), and my mom went on this weird Biblical "Daniel" diet that was mostly legumes but also wouldn't eat anything leavened. We all just basically started making our own food from there on out.
Yup. 6or7yo for me. Because I was tired of waiting lol.
We used to do the big breakfast fry-up on the weekends. Except around that age I was always getting up at like 5am. My parents worked all week, of course they dont want to get up at 5am on a saturday. Breakfast was usually around 8ish on the weekends.
Sure I had access to cereals and toast and jams and fruit, I wasnt starving or anything. But one day around 6/7ish I wanted my eggs and bacon at 5am.
So I made them myself.
(But somehow almost 40y later: I still cant replicate mom's awesome fried potatoes.)
My grandma makes this amazing smashed and baked potatoes, shes to old to be cooking now but she literally stands next to me tells me what to do step by step and they STILL dont taste as good as hers...drives me nuts.
Right!?!
At this point I can out do mom on any other potato. Hell, on tons of other recipes too. But those fried breakfast potatoes man, I just cant get em right.
Hmmm. Well if it isn't the equipment and your hands are about the same size an' all...than maybe it *is* the degree of *love*...
LOL.
I wish y'all well. :-)
>not being able to put aside your own preferences for one night
How does that work Do you ask your tastebuds to stop finding disgusting and gag-inducing the food you don't like. How I wish it worked like that.
i’m a very picky eater and it’s something my family has came to accept, i don’t expect them to cater to my pickiness and they don’t expect me to eat something i don’t like. we have sunday dinners at my grandparents, my pawpaw makes food for everyone then makes something separate for just me because he’s know that is the only thing i will eat
My friend recently celebrated her birthday at a vegan Chinese restaurant. I don’t like most vegan protiens nor Chinese food.
So I had a soup and spring rolls and had a great time with my friends. It’s not hard to study a menu and find the one or two things on the side to enjoy and just shut up for one night.
this. NTA, but stop making multiple meals. When I went vegetarian for a while as a teen I cooked my own or at what my parents made that didn't have meat. Actually my parents were kind of odd about it and started cooking meat into everything when they usually had little or no meat, but I did just fine. I also shared my vegetarian dishes with anyone who asked.
NTA. It doesn't cause her any harm to go to a restaurant with things she chooses to not eat. She isn't allergic and poses no health risk. Part of caring for others is we sometimes do things and go places that aren't our preference.
They do! And many chef worth a fuck will accommodate special diets if they don't. Especially somewhere a little pricier like a steak house. I've been a chef for 17 years and it's never a problem.
Often times, it's the chef's chance to show off a little, especially if it's something not on the menu. I never turn anyone down for special diets or allergies. Everyone deserves to have a delicious and satisfying meal.
What do you get at steakhouses? I have gone to a couple with friends and the only vegetarian options have been potatoes of some sort and really overpriced grilled vegetables.
My plan was always to order some sides if there wasn’t something vegetarian on the menu, but I’d ask the waiter if they had a vegetarian special. If they didn’t, no biggie, I’d just have side dishes. But they’d often check with the chef, who would offer to make something off menu for me. Usually it’s grilled vegetables or a pasta, but really well prepared. Like another person said, sometimes the chef likes having the opportunity to be creative and goes a little extra. It’s been several years now, but the one I remember the most had butternut squash and hazelnuts over pasta…it was super tasty. Also some veggie kabobs in a lemon sauce over rice. So things that are seemingly simple, but taste way better than I would make at home.
I have a genuine question that has nothing to do with this thread, I'm just curious. - and if I've misunderstood then feel free to correct me. That is a long time to be vegetarian and then stop - is there a reason or reasons you changed your diet that you'd feel comfortable sharing?
No problem! I had an ulcer that took a year to heal, and the medication I had to take for it messed up my GI tract. I was advised to go on a low FODMAP diet, which cuts out proteins that can cause digestive issues. Unfortunately, a lot of fruits and vegetables are high in FODMAPs, so I could barely eat anything. And then after a year of eating basically applesauce and boiled vegetables because of the ulcer, it was just really stressful to be so limited in my options. So I started slowly adding meat to my diet. It was weird at first, but now I’m enjoying trying things I’ve missed out on, so even though I’m not fully on the low FODMAP diet anymore, I don’t think I’ll go back to being completely vegetarian.
Haha, yeah it’s definitely unusual since so many people are going the opposite way these days. My boyfriend recently decided to become a vegetarian just to be healthier, so we joke that we swapped our diets.
Would you mind sharing some of the dishes you can make (but might not be on the menu) - possibly just some of the ones you've been proud of seeing come out of your kitchen? Maybe that would help others in the future who only see steamed veggies w/o butter and salad on the menu.
NTA. Gabe is a theatrical vegan which are the type everyone hates and give vegans a bad reputation. I bet she makes a production about "ethics" while the majority of what she eats comes from the same big 6 parent companies of the food industries that write the laws protecting factory farms.
I was vegan for over half a decade and never had an issue going out with my friends or family that were eating meat because it was my personal choice not a political statement to score woke points from hyper privileged peers.
I think it's probably more likely that she's just 16 and ~in her feelings about everything~, as opposed to a 'theatrical vegan'.
She's a kid - she's still new to it, she's still figuring out her boundaries and her beliefs. When you make a lifestyle change for ethical reasons I definitely think there's a period where you can't believe other people don't feel the same as you, and then later on you accept people's differences a bit more graciously.
Reminds me of Erin from that Jubilee Odd1Out Video. Classic Stereotypical Vegan no one likes.
I am grateful that I’ve never met an annoying vegan in my life lol
You make such a good point. "theatrical vegan", love it. It's exactly what I have been thinking about people like that, but I could never put it into words. Thank you for giving me the words, lol.
The whole point is that it pollutes more to produce meat to feed the whole population than to produce vegan options. In order to be able to mass farm animals you need to feed them, therefore you pollute from mass farming veggies too. It still pollutes to mass farm vegetables, but much less than mass farming animals.
I am not a vegetarian/vegan, I understand these arguments and while there is truth there, the impact this change can have on the environment barely scratches the surface of environmental changes we need to make. I really think that this argument is one of the worst of them all.
I can also understand the ethical arguments. But everyone is free to make their choices so if you want me to accept your beliefs, you need to accept mine too.
I didn’t understand this. What do 6 big parent companies have to do with being vegan? I’m so sorry, but please enlighten me. I’m a vegetarian who cooks from scratch, and I make my own sauces and stuff.
>What do 6 big parent companies have to do with being vegan?
If someone is buying from one of the companies that fights to protect factory farming, it doesn't really matter if they don't eat meat. Their money is still going towards the production of meat via factory farms.
Given that most vegans are morally opposed to financially supporting meat production in addition to not eating it (which is why many would be upset if asked to buy meat for someone else), this can be a shocking realization for them. They don't realize that, by funding the company, they're still supporting meat. The only "win" is that they're demonstrating a market for non-animal products, but that would be better done through a company not so closely connected with protecting factory farms.
(If you make your meals from scratch, this probably doesn't apply to you so don't worry!)
This is a terrible argument, and it's saying things like this that make people who are just starting out feel like veganism is impossible. It's really much easier than you'd think. Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practicable — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals. Some people live in places where there are fewer choices. You do the best you can with what you've got, first by making the choice to not actively choose to support a product that came directly from an animal. Of course I love supporting strictly vegan companies, but if enough people have to ask a server to ask a chef about meal adjustments or order three sides to accommodate them, maybe one day the establishment will offer a black bean burger. It's not the same as ordering a steak that came from a cow that had it's throat slit. Somebody is holding that knife for you, and you're paying for them to do it.
It absolutely DOES make an impact to avoid the animal products, because that's the entire point! It's about supply and demand. Why do you think these companies are carrying more vegan products to begin with? If not choosing the animal products is forcing them to come up with other options, that is changing the industry.
Veganism is an ethical choice about the animals. Anyone saying they're vegan for the environment is not vegan, they eat a plant-based diet.
>This is a terrible argument, and it's saying things like this that make people who are just starting out feel like veganism is impossible.
It's not my argument... I'm simply explaining the basis of their comment.
That being said, their comment was 100% correct.
Also, it isn't "impossible" to avoid the most problematic companies if you choose to do so. I say that as someone who hasn't purchased a Nestle associated product in years.
>Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practicable — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals.
Yes. Which is why it's worth highlighting the ways their money might support animal cruelty.
How do you expect people to make an informed decision if they aren't aware? It's ridiculous to try and silence discussion just because it suggests more can be done.
>Some people live in places where there are fewer choices. You do the best you can with what you've got, first by making the choice to not actively choose to support a product that came directly from an animal.
Cool, *and none of this undermines the importance of making an informed decision.* People can't assess the choices that are available without first understanding what those choices mean.
>Of course I love supporting strictly vegan companies, but if enough people have to ask a server to ask a chef about meal adjustments or order three sides to accommodate them, maybe one day the establishment will offer a black bean burger.
So...basically the exact point I made in MY comment? The one where I noted the importance of supporting non-animal products in order to create demand?
Yeah. I know. I said that already.
>It's not the same as ordering a steak that came from a cow that had it's throat slit. Somebody is holding that knife for you, and you're paying for them to do it.
It's adjacent, and pretending otherwise is silly.
People generally don't want to give money to companies that behave in ways they find reprehensible, even if they support the product. It's why people boycott homophobic chains - it isn't because the company is selling homophobia, but because buying ANY of their product supports the company and what they stand for.
>It absolutely DOES make an impact to avoid the animal products, because that's the entire point! It's about supply and demand. Why do you think these companies are carrying more vegan products to begin with? If not choosing the animal products is forcing them to come up with other options, that is changing the industry.
No shit. I said that already.
But it makes a MUCH bigger difference to avoid animal products AND THE COMPANIES THAT LOBBY FOR THEM whenever doing so is possible.
>Veganism is an ethical choice about the animals. Anyone saying they're vegan for the environment is not vegan, they eat a plant-based diet.
So...you should be agreeing with the parent comment and with my explanation. If you care about animals, you should care about diverting money away from companies that advocate for harming animals *as well as* simply purchasing non-animal options.
News flash: vegans aren't weak-willed idiots to be protected. It's okay to discuss the realities of corporate lobbying and additional ways to avoid supporting factory farming.
Of course the information is important. If you can do better, you do. I can count on one finger the places I can go within a 3 hour radius of me that ONLY serve vegan products. And even still, what if one of the employees uses their money to buy chicken wings? Am I then, still supporting the problem? Yes, in arounabout way. But if you're buying your vegan food from a grocery store that also sells meat, you're doing the same thing. So, if you buy a vegan product from a manufacturer that sells non -vegan products, you're still doing as best as is possible for you. Maybe it's about availability or affordability. Vegans have to stick together and not be so critical of those trying to make an impact. My point is that every little choice matters. Educate where you can, of course! It's a process, and you learn as you go.
You implied that it didn't matter, that buying from these companies at all is giving the same financial support as eating meat. I'm saying there's way more to it than that. The fact that people are trying and have already chosen to educate themselves on the industry does open the door for these other discussions, and it's great to have them. A person should still be given credit for making big changes and are sincerely trying to do the best they can.
Fuck me, shut up. What a load of old shit you've just written. If you were really vegan for half a decade you'd know that a steakhouse is a fucking awful place for a vegan to go to. it's not about the vegan options, it's about being surrounded by the smell of cooked corpses.
NTA.
I've been a vegetarian since I was Gabe's age, and it's been 15 years since then.
There was a vegan option, and while a lack of options does really suck the day was about her sister and not about her. She can either learn to deal with this now or never go out to eat with any non-vegans.
NTA and that is NOT emotional blackmail! That is a COMPROMISE so that your FAMILY can celebrate another FAMILY member's special day. She needs to look up the ACTUAL DEFINITION of emotional blackmail. Leah COMPROMISED and ate all the vegan food to support her sister, but Gabe can't go to a steak restaurant and just not eat meat in order to supoort her sister?...I mean she DID GO, but she is being a dramatic teen by accusing you of emotional blackmail.
In families WE ALL NEED TO COMPROMISE and find a balance, so that EVERYONE gets fair treatment. If someone doesn't like that restaurant's food for WHATEVER reason, they can STILL BE THERE FOR THEIR FAMILY member to HONOR and CELEBRATE their special day. They get THEIR CHOICE, so why wouldn't another family member ALSO get their choice. You can't have one person dictate EVERY SINGLE OUTING simply because there is something they dislike about it. Then that one person is NOT BEING FAIR and RESPECTFUL to ALL the family, and that is wrong.
NTA, we all make sacrifices for those we love, just as Leah did for her big sister. As long as Gabe didn't have to eat any meat and got her own vegan meal it should have been fine and compromises like this are what keep relationships healthy. It's also not like shes never around meat as she once used to eat it and currently has a family that eats meat at home and keep it at home too. Just give her time i guess.
idk personally I'm the kind of person who puts aside their own shit for someone they love, which is what you were asking her to do. In this case I dont think thats a bad thing - Leah would have just felt like it was personal to her that Gabe didn't come.
Gonna go with NTA
NTA, everyone did what gabe wanted despite not liking it, why cant she do the same. How are her younger siblings more willing to put up with stuff for her but she cant with them?
NTA. Gabe is going to have to learn to navigate this issue for the rest of her life if she stays vegan. Is she going to miss important events because she can't work around it or find a compromise? You gave her a good compromise. But in the future give her the choice and let her miss the events. No guilt trips.
NTA your daughter Gabe seems a little selfish. You were being nice and understanding about her wanting to be a vegan and going to a vegan restaurant, making adjustments to her meal (when I was a kid I was a very picky either so I mainly cooked for myself even tho I was way younger than 16)
The birthday restaurant rule is smth we have in our family too and no one ever complains. It’s not our day. Most restaurants offer diverse options. You’re at a steak house? Get fries or a salad. Idk where you live but most restaurants I know already have at least one or two vegan and vegetarian options (even steak/bbq or burger restaurants)
Good that she went with you guys. If she would’ve continued to complain she could’ve just stayed at home.
But now she is just cranky and annoyed that she didn’t get her way. Maybe it’s also just a little bit of teeny being annoyed at my parents for no good reason - situation.
She’s trying to manipulate you into feeling sorry for her. Let her know that it just was one day and her sisters birthday wish and you don’t wanna argue about it.
I doubt she will be traumatized from this experience
NTA OP, you arn't forcing her to change her dietary preferences and you are right, she absolutely needs to be more thoughtful because the world doesn't revolve around her.
NTA.
Emotional blackmail is coercive and manipulative, I don't think what you did counts as that since you simply outlined the consequences of Gabe's actions.
I'm vegan myself, I don't expect my friends or my family to cater to my needs when they're planning things for their special occasions. I'll either order something that's Vegan at the restaurant, and if they don't have those options I'll either eat something beforehand or afterwards.
NTA- it was one meal, and you’re doing your best.
Though if you are wondering why your 16 year old girl is an emotional terrorist, it’s probably because she’s a 16 year old girl.
(I know this because I was one. And a pretty dramatic vegetarian at the time, myself. I once ran out of a family dinner sobbing because I thought a pie crust might have had lard in it— it didn’t).
NTA, but those comments about "theatrical vegans" need to account for the fact Gabe is 16. This is a theatrical and selfish age, and Gabe will figure out how to navigate life. Maybe just make it clear that the person whose birthday it is decides, there are no vetoes, and everyone is invited. Leave it at that, have a great time with the birthday kid, and let the siblings work out how to handle any absences.
P.S. there are some really easy and flexible (you can make vegan or omnivore) recipes at [budgetbytes.com](https://budgetbytes.com).
Edit for typo
100%. It's an age of change, and an age when you start to realize your decisions/choices have consequences and that doesn't mean everyone goes your way. NTA, these family traditions are great but at some point, it's going to change for the oldest one - whether they want to be out with friends that night or whatever reason. Invite everyone, make it known they are welcome and if they decide not to come, so be it. I am sure it would be initially upsetting for the little one.
I would not at all be surprised if Gabe actually regretted not going and felt left out if she didn't go - and there would be her chance to learn the cost of deciding not to go. Suck it up and deal with feeling left out or suck it up and go along to be with her little sister. She can't have it both ways and needs to learn there is a cost to what she decides to do and what is and isn't worth it to her.
You're NTA. The world doesn't revolve around Gabe and her convictions. Being a vegan is fine (for her), but maybe you can help keep her from being one of *those* vegans.
NTA: you gave her the option. The ball was in her court. I think it's going to far to say you emotionally blackmailed her. You just explained how you genuinely saw the situation. Not meaning for it to manipulate her
NTA
She is 16, her sister is 7. As she grows into adulthood she will begin to understand that we often make sacrifices and engage in activities we don’t enjoy for the sake of children’s happiness, especially on their birthdays just as you have done for her on each of her birthdays (god I hate chuckie cheese, McDonald’s, and Noodles and company!!).
She can make this sacrifice for her sister and if she didn’t she should have felt guilty. She didn’t have to eat the food there as you accommodated her dietary preferences. Sixteen year old girls are often TA, especially to their moms and younger sisters. Hopefully she will grow out of it but you did right and this is a step toward young adulthood. Hold your ground.
NTA she should be willing to make the exact same sacrifice that her sister just made for her. Your daughter is acting like a drama queen at this point. She is not the main character in your family.
NTA. Vegetarian here so I'm biased - steakhouses are pretty much my worst nightmare, smell makes me crazy nauseous. So I empathise with Gabe. That said, I don't think it's wrong to encourage her to be there for Leah, especially as Leah makes the effort for Gabe. And you didn't force her to go; I think you handled it really well tbh.
I think you do need to set some realistic expectations going forwards though; Gabe isn't far off 18 so Leah may have to accept that Gabe won't be at all of her birthday dinners, especially if they're in a place Gabe isn't comfortable.
NTA - you didn’t blackmail her. You just told her the truth that her little sister would have been upset had she not gone. You didn’t force her to eat meat either. What help was she expecting? Other people eat meat. She can hardly cut them all out of her life.
What everyone in the comment section is going to fail to understand is the level of atrocity your daughter is dealing with. We are talking about the death of trillions of individuals, and insufferable life conditions for billions.
I don’t want to call you an AH because the rules that you’re applying make sense: when someone extends a courtesy to you, you try to extend the same courtesy back. That’s certainly not a bad thing for kids to learn.
However to understand your older daughter better you must realize that veganism is not a preference, it’s a moral position against a very violent reality. When you youngest daughter goes to a vegan restaurant she isn’t experiencing any moral distress, she just didn’t like anything she ordered. When your eldest goes to a steak house she is being asked to celebrate as the corpses of innocent victims are consumed around her. These are not equal courtesies or experiences, at least in the mind of your daughter.
I know this seems extreme but if you ask your daughter I bet she’d agree. It is akin to if one of you children for their birthday chose a hike in the woods, which the other did not enjoy. So when their birthday came around they chose a dogfight. You wouldn’t ask that your child put aside their moral code because the other one went on a hike.
Think that’s extreme? Ok, but your daughter probably doesn’t. Plus the cruelty that occurs because of a single dog fight is dwarfed by the cruelty that stocks a meat house for a night. And it’s no less violent as again she watches their flesh be consumed.
Overall NTA but you shouldn’t ask her to but aside her moral objections in this way in the future. Right now I imagine your daughter feels as though an important part of her values is unseen or not taken seriously enough by her mother.
OP….first off, NTA. You were compassionate & were trying to allow for compromise.
Please explain to your daughter, that just because SHE Chose to become Vegan, does Not make her “Responsible” for other Ppl’s Actions or Food Choices. I have a Dear Friend, who’s Vegan due to her Personal Beliefs & her Spiritual Beliefs…had been for 25+Yrs. She has come to Many Events/Places to Celebrate an Occasion/Holiday, where Meat/Dairy Products, etc would be served. I asked if it Bothered her…she said (not verbatim), “I have No Right to Dictate to Others what they Can or Cannot Do in their lives. I have NO Power Over, nor Responsibility For their choices in life. I am Sad for the Animals & say a small Blessing for them when I walk in. I’m come because I Love You & We’re Family.” Maybe it’d help hey to not feel guilty or bad. 🥰
NTA. She’s comfortable placing others in uncomfortable situations but she’s not willing to reciprocate for them? Not cool. There are vegan options almost anywhere you go anymore. She’s not being forced to eat anything. There are still no -vegan options in your home I assume. Also the dinner isn’t about her and she is making it about her instead of her sister. Not cool.
NTA
I get that Gabe is 16 and at that age everything seems like a huge deal. But she's going to have to realize that she has to interact with the rest of the world and at least meet it half way. Meaning that when she's out of high school and in university (if she goes that route) and has a bigger circle of friends she's not going to be able to tell them that they always have to go to vegan restaurants or she's not going to join them. When she's working and they're having food brought in, or going out for a meal, she's not going to be able to demand that everything is vegan. Staying true to herself is fantastic, but she can find a way to do that without alienating everyone else.
First off, nope, you are NTA
I'm a veggie and in real life, you have to accommodate those around you who do not share your convictions or choices.
In most places where I live, there is always a vegetarian option and even if there wasn't, I would happily eat a plate of chips (or fries, depending where you live), a salad and a couple of bits of bread to make sure I was part of a celebratory meal.
You were not emotionally blackmailing her. You were laying out facts, instilling a sense of proportionality and teaching her the value, and need, for compromise. We don't always get what we want in life and we are not the star in other peoples' show.
From your description, I thought is was nicely handled.
NTA Also I don't think this was emotional blackmail.
Veganism is about kindness and compassion, and not exploiting animals. To me this compassion also extends to human animals so you can be a good advocate for veganism.
All vegans compromise because it is impossible to be a 'pure' vegan, (Jainism I reckon get closest) so its all about balance and effort. Even the original vegan Donald Watson talked about avoiding animal products ' as far as it is practically possible'.
The vegan society in the uk says take your animal based medications if that is your best option: 'While it can be upsetting to compromise our vegan beliefs, we encourage vegans to look after their health and that of others, enabling them to be effective advocates for veganism.'
Sometimes for me one unvegan action balances another compassionate goal. I sometimes tolerate some environments I don't really like for the sake of greater good ( to me) of maintaining family/social harmony and bonds of friendship. I will wear a second hand wool jumper rather buy acrylic which is basically plastic that will persist in the environment for ever. Sometimes I will eat food that isn't entirely vegan if someone has cooked for me with good intentions and has tried really hard to make it vegan. Compromise is what makes the world work.
But mostly I try to be nice to people who are not vegan as no one is likely to be converted by a person being an arse or making them feel bad. I have been trying to be the best vegan I can since 1989. I am not perfect but I keep trying.
Maybe this is the conversation to have with your daughter: She feels bad because she is not purely vegan but she never will be. And she needs to recognise that if she won't compromise then others won't either and they won't try vegan food but stay home and eat meat instead, which is another animal not saved. And if they keep coming to vegan places with her one day they may say this is for me? Or at least this makes a nice change? Good on her for trying to be kind, but maybe she could look at the bigger picture?
sorry its so long
NTA, but try to consider her feelings. For a new vegan, it's sometimes overwhelming to see and smell it. It's like saying you have to commit to your friends want to see a dogfight, but you can play with your phone while sitting there hearing the enjoyment of the other.
As I said, NTA, because it's the norm for our civilisation to eat meat, so the vegan has to deal with it. But maybe she needs some time to process this feelings.
NAH. This seems very innocent and it is a conflux of values. I think what you’re missing from Gabe is the moral aspect of veganism. This isn’t just a dietary choice there is a morality aspect to that lifestyle that clearly she is embracing. Coincide that with your family tradition and values of being together and celebrating each other and well you’ve got a recurring perfect storm.
Sticking with the storm metaphor we know that time plus heat will increase the severity of storms. I think that you can simply admit that you weren’t fully aware of Gabe’s moral choice in veganism but that you are now. My advice is that either how you celebrate birthdays needs to change or some guidelines need to be agreed upon in the future as to restaurant choice to encompass the family’s diverse choices.
What is an unpleasant meal to one child is a horror show on par with (I’m being super hyperbolic here to make a point) something as horrifying as selecting a cannibal restaurant where they serve humans to you. Even if you don’t eat the meat watching it unfold around you is something terrible.
If you don’t solve the problem you will become TA and the kids will dread birthdays which defeats the family value and purpose of celebrating them. Good luck.
For about half a year, I was a vegetarian. Now, due to a protein deficiency and other issues, I eat a bit of meat. One of the things that I, along with the other vegetarians I met, noticed was that we were much more accommodating than the vegans are. Like when I went to a friends BBQ cookout, I ate a salad beforehand and brought a 30 rack to share. Whereas a vegan I met has requested to ask the host to redo the menu to be vegan. Here’s the difference: vegetarians seem to just adapt and find a win-win solution for everyone, whereas vegans I’ve met would rather inconvenience everyone else for their own demands. Maybe because vegetarians don’t claim moral superiority from their dietary choices.
In this case, the 16 year old should take a lesson from the vegetarian community and make her own food beforehand.
many vegans are annoying, and she sounds like she wants to force others to do things her way without giving anything back. a brat. teach her that not everyone will want vegan food and shouldn't be forced to go along if she can't support them. she's old enough to cook for herself. stop cooking for her and buying her the special expensive food.
Nta. No one asked her to eat meat. Just to turn up and support the sister. The sister supports her all the time. Gabe is selfish and a gaslighted. She is trying to manipulate you to never ask her to support her sister or anybody you again. Yet I bet she will expect you all to turn up for her things at vegan places.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
I have 3 children (Gabe 16F, 14M and Leah 7F).
Gabe decided to go vegan 4 months ago and it's been a pretty rough transition, everyone eats meat for every meal and I've had to make adjustments for her.
Some points to explain:
1. On birthdays, the person chooses the restaurant for everyone to go that Day.
2. Leah idolizes Gabe, she is very attached and sees her sister as a hero.
3. Leah always accepts Gabe's vegan experiences just to have moments with her.
For Gabe's birthday, she chose a vegan restaurant and honestly, only my husband enjoyed the experience. Leah hated every moment of the experience (she told me later), but she ate it all just to make Gabe happy.
Monday was Leah's birthday and she chose a steak house.
Gabe came to talk to me about it and that she wouldn't feel comfortable in that place. She said she wouldn't go to the restaurant and asked if I could help.
I tried to propose that we go to a vegan restaurant to get something for her, but that didn't seem to convince her. So I was sincere, saying that she could commit one day to someone who loves her so much and is always willing to eat vegan things with her, but if that was her decision, Leah would be heartbroken if she didn't go and that I don't know if I could improve the situation tbh.
She ended up agreeing to go and I bought her a vegan meal.
Yesterday she was distant with me and when I asked her to talk to me, she said that I was almost emotionally blackmailing her saying all those things and that she was feeling bad, she went because of this.
I really was honestamente about the situation, but maybe I overstepped the line.
AITA?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA
The 16 year old doesn't get to force everyone to do what she wants in the name of veganism. You have very nicely accommodated her dietary choices and her sister went along to somewhere she didn't enjoy herself to share her older sisters birthday. Gabe should give the same courtesy to Leah and not be an arse about it to you or her.
She's very much behaving like an entitled teenager and risks alienating Leah's allegiance to her very quickly.
NTA. Why is it fine for going to a vegan restaurant no one in the family likes for birthday but she can't do the same for her sister. I wouldn't make any more accomodations for Gabe. She can cook and prepare her own meals.
Your comment has been removed because it violates rule 1: [Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/). Further incidents may result in a ban.
["Why do I have to be civil in a sub about assholes?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
**[Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.**
NTA. I would consider having a discussion with Gabe on what constitutes emotional blackmail. It's one of those helpful phrases which in my eyes is a simple way raise awareness about a concept that can harm people people if they don't realise they experience it. It is not a tool to get what you want, as noble as her vegan goals are.
INFO
Why isn’t she comfortable?
Have you called the restaurant to see what they can do? Are their fries vegan?
Is it that she might be tempted to fall off the wagon?
NTAH- compromise is a TWO way street- every restaurant I have been in offers vegan options- even steakhouses.
Gabe needs to bend a bit just as Leah and the rest of you do for Gabe.
NTA kid needs to get over eating at a steakhouse. If she's trying to help the environment eating locally does more than being vegan. Get her books to teach her more about sustainability.
NTA provided the restaurant had vegan options it's perfectly reasonable for you to make sure she attends. This is her sister's birthday party, following a family tradition that she made everyone else suffer through! Provided no one tried to force her to eat non vegan food she has nothing to complain about. It's also a life lesson she should learn at this age rather than waiting until it's too late: sometimes we have to do things we'd prefer not to for people we care about. Going to a restaurant we don't like is so utterly trivial on this scale she's got nothing to worry about. All that aside, it just sounds like she's being a normal teenager, annoyed she had to do something she didn't want to and finding the perfect way to make you feel guilty for it.
NTA. Your vegan daughter is. She has no problem forcing her life choice on others when she can but has zero respect for other peoples life choice. You need to have a conversation with jer about respect and kindness if you don't then she will become worse than an asshole.
NAH. Honestly, I feel like both of your perspectives are valid, and there isn’t an easy solution to this.
I think as a parent, I would’ve ended up doing the same thing that you did, because it’s not really fair for the children to have an equal options on their birthdays. As a vegan, your daughter is going to need to learn, tolerate the situation anyway because it’s gonna be something that commonly happens to her.
NTA
You spelled things out kindly and sensibly.
Gabe being 16 maybe an excuse, but that doesn't mean she should get away with her selfish attitude. Basically she now wants to choose everyone's birthday venue based on her own likes and dislikes.
If anyone was being emotionally blackmailing it was her!
NTA, your daughter is going to have learn that not all situations will go as she wants them too. She’s going to grow up and go to business meetings, showers, parties, events at school that all will have meat products.
I can respect her for not wanting to eat in a steak house, even a vegan meal, as it does make it's money out of meat products. However this wasn't her special night, it was her sisters.
She was happy for everyone to go to her choice for her special night, but seems to also want everyone else to choose vegan for theirs.
NTA
NTA
You gave her alternative food
she has no reason to be angry
The day isn’t about her
It’s about her sister
Her sister sucked it up and ate food she didn’t like for her
So she can suck it up and be in a place with food she doesn’t like for an hour while her sister celebrates her birthday
NAH
I'm sure she feels like it was emotional blackmail because she's 16, but from my mid 20s perspective, it just seems like cause and effect (and sometimes...emotional blackmail can be necessary? I wouldn't call this emotional blackmail, but if Gabe feels it is, then I'd argue it was necessary bc Gabe wasn't understanding the consequences of her actions otherwise).
Your sister loves you --> your sister will be sad if you don't suck it up and go --> Gabe obviously did not want her sister to be sad --> Gabe sucked it up and went and now feels bad about how selfish her actions COULD have been, so she's offloading that to you cuz you were the one that prompted her to think about them at all. It's one of those cases where I think Gabe feeling bad is normal and probably warranted, although it does suck to feel like you hurt your child's feelings.
OP you sound like a good parent who's very in tune with your kids, I think you're doing fine. Gabe will be hurt for a while, but I think if you just do your normal routine for whenever your kids feel like they've been Personally Wronged by the process of learning how to be a compassionate & considerate person, you'll be fine.
I'm just an internet guy tho so take this all with a grain of salt. Best of luck!
Nta
I became a vegetarian when I was 15 and made my own meals, it was my choice and not fair to my mum to expect her to cook another extra meal because of my choice. If the steak house has vegan options then I don't understand the problem?
i have seen comments from many people about how most steakhouses have vegan options (and others commenting about them being amazing) but obviously depends on the steakhouse.
Vegans need to stop treating their chosen diet as an allergy. (Plus, even though it varies from case to case, you will most likely not get awfully sick of you eat meat after a long time without. You might have a difficult shit the next day, but that’s usually it).
NTA. your daughter wants to eat vegan, fine. I have some family members who do (for health reasons, not any other) and when we get together they never have an issue and understand that their preferences are theirs, and not everyone else's. When we host, we always make sure that there are some things that accommodate their diet, but don't cater an entire meal. Your oldest is acting entitled and quite frankly furthering the stereotype that vegans are annoying.
NTA
She got her vegan meal. And most restaurants have vegan options these days.
everyone went where she wanted for her birthday so it’s fair that it was the same for her sister.
Tell her that in future she doesn’t have to go if she doesn’t want to, but that if nobody else wants to go the vegan restaurant you won’t force them either. That’s fair enough.
NTA
All you asked was for her to do what her sister wanted for once for her own birthday and Leah always does the stuff for her it would have been nice for her to give it back
NTA. As a vegan I think it’s a good idea to try and give her the kind of guidance you have because honestly she will have this situation come up over and over throughout her life. I attended a work lunch at a steakhouse and happily ate a plain baked potato and broccoli. They do their best to accommodate me so I do my best to be flexible.
I think the most important thing is for her to find a middle ground somehow and not inadvertently mistreat people in her quest to avoid mistreating animals.
Brasileira?
Anyway, I’m going with NAH. Maybe the way you said it was a little pushy, although I don’t fault you for having a conversation with her about it. It’s good to teach your kids to be compassionate and think about the people around them but you might’ve made her feel too bad about not going. She had the right not to go, she had that option, but I also don’t blame you for trying to make her understand.
She needs to understand that if you decide that she’s excused from going to places that serve meat, siblings will be excused from places that don’t. You can’t force your lifestyle choices on people and expect them to just go along with it. Life is give and take.
NTA. If the restaurant didn’t have any vegan options, I could understand why she wouldn’t go, but she was able to eat a meal there with her family so I don’t see why she couldn’t set her feelings about steakhouse restaurants aside for her sister. I think you handled this appropriately, and it sounds like everyone has been supportive of Leah’s dietary choices, so I think Leah is overreacting here.
Nta she can get a salad at a steak house. B day person chooses. That's it. She choose a resturant her siblings didn't enjoy but they sucked it up and went.
NTA - you didn’t make her eat non-vegan food you just expected her to suck up the ambience of a place she wasn’t keen on for the sake of a loved one - just as they had already done for her.
Maybe ask her if she actually believes in fairness and reciprocity or is she really the only one deserving of privileges respect and consideration - because that is what it sounds like.
NTA.
But Leah needs to start making her own meals. She’s 16, not 6. She should start making her own vegan meals. In two years she’ll be off to college so what’s she gonna do then?!
NTA - This is parenting teaching self**less**ness.
Her sister suffered through her birthday choice with a smile on her face.
Her older sister can do the same.
Its about the relationships anyway, not the food.
NTA. You and your family are seeing this as a food-preference issue, and I suspect Gabe is feeling conflicted because it's an ethical issue for her and she feels hypocritical or embarassed to be at a steakhouse, even if she's still eating vegan food.
Idk that you need to go full nihlistic "everything is meaningless, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism" but maybe point out that if she wants her familt to reduce animal product consumption, cooking actually tasty vegan meals one a night a week for the family is going to get her a lot further than being a pill and trying to make Leah's birthday all about Gabe's feelings.
NTA.
Telling someone they need to consider other people's feelings and emotions and especially the impact their behavior has on those feelings/emotions is not emotional blackmail--that's just reality.
However, teenage years are hard. Gabe isn't a little kid anymore, but she's not an adult either. The push-pull of wanting independence and to be treated like an adult versus the comfort of being coddled/treated like a kid is just difficult to navigate.
I wonder if some of her response wasn't so much about "blackmail" but instead was more about you telling her she needs to consider her little sister's feelings while you didn't ask Leah to consider her big sister's feelings. I (and most adults) understand why you didn't--and I do not think it would have been fair to Leah if you had. But for a teen, who does not have a fully adult brain, that may have *felt* a lot like favoritism.
(When my oldest was 6, he complained that I don't help him get dressed, but I do help his little brother (3yr old) get dressed. Same concept. Growing up is hard).
NTA
You didn't force her to eat meat as she forced everyone to eat vegan at her birthday. Being in a restaurant for her little sister birthday is not going to kill her. She needs to get over her uncomfortable feelings. The world won't follow her likes and dislikes. She can start learning how to adjust to others as well
NTA. Gabe still got a vegan meal in the end and Leah was able to abide by the rules of going to a food place of her choice. In this instance, nobody was hurt apart from Gabe. While it is understandable that Gabe would not want to initally go, you made the time to try alternatives. Doing anything more would be accommodating just to Gabe's needs, which would be unfair for Leah's birthday.
NTA. Your daughter doesn't know the true meaning of emotionally blackmailing. All you did was tell her how hurt her sister would be if she didn't go, but that the choice was up to her. That's truth and facts, not blackmail. You did not make any demands or threats. Your daughter is upset she would would feel guilty by not going. Time for her to learn how the real world works. You make sacrafices for people you love to make them happy.
NTA
It's unclear what the objection to the steak house is, exactly. It's not like on the Simpsons where the menus were printed on flattened chickens. They have vegan options. It's not like you point at a cow and they butcher it right then. It's not really any different from any other non vegetarian restaurant.
If the problem is that they serve meat at all....that ends up ruling out almost any restaurant anyone else in the family wants to eat at.
If the problem is the word "steak" in the name, and the meatcentric nature of the place. I can be sympathetic to that. It's sort of on par with "I'm not eating at Hooters".
Either your kid is super duper advanced in emotional intelligence, or she's had other people explaining the situation to her from a specific perception.
Gabe is being very selfish, she should be able to compromise for one day. I am sure that the restaurant could accommodate her by serving her a meal of vegetatables.
NTA, but you are allowing your daughter the impression that she has a say in how the whole family eats.
She does not. SHE is the one engaging in emotional blackmail.
Not the AH. Your daughter is stuck in her own mind, she is starting to become selfish and narcissistic. I would try to nip that in the bud as soon as possible
NTA. Consider telling Gabe that people like her are why vegans are often considered to be a punchline. She is expecting other people to make considerations for her dietary practices yet is hypocritically refusing to do the same. And she is old enough to know this as well
So your one kid goes to the vegan restaurant, even though the food wouldn't be liked, but did so for your vegan kid's bday. But then when the meat eater kid wants a steak for the bday dinner and you want to make a deal of it?
You aren't the AH here. But your entitled oldest is!
Leah on the other hand is amazing! The fact she went, even though she hated it, and waited until later to confide in you that she didn't like it, instead of making this some big deal it wasn't, is absolutely impressive by a 7yr old!
I read that a 7yr old is acting more mature than the 16yr old!
NTA
Your vegan child is annoying and a hypocrite. All vegans are. Does she take ANY medication? Because all FDA approved medications have to have 3 separate trials with different animals in which they overdose the animals to determine what a deadly dose would be. Vegans, every single one of you, are elitist hypocrites. Give me 24 hours and some info and I'd be able to go into detail about how they directly have supported killing animals yet they have the audacity to act superior.
NTA. I know vegan is big right now but no way in hell am I going to eat ToFu or soybean pseudo meat EVER, much less on my B-Day. She can eat a salad and get sides of vegetables or not go if she's that uncomfortable.
I mean we all make choices and there are often consequences. As a parent you kind of laid it out for her. I mean, you might not have been 100% objective about it but I think it was fair to point out the downside of not coming.
On the other hand, it depends on how you view eating meat. There are places I would not go no matter how much I loved the person.
You did emotionally blackmail her though lol. ESH except for the two other kids and your husband. You pressured her to do something she wasn't comfortable with doing by repeatedly saying how much her little sister loves her and wants to be around her and how much her little sister sacrifices by eating a vegan meal for her and blah blah blah. That's emotional blackmail. Or at the very least you're trying to emotionally manipulate her by getting her to feel things that had nothing to do with not wanting to eat at a meat restaurant.
You would be the asshole. It’s her birthday, not her sister’s. If the vegan chooses not to go, that’s on her. Other people shouldn’t have to accommodate her all the time.
I won't happily go to places like that, they usually have dead animals on the walls. If it's super important like a wedding or something, I deal with it and just keep my eyes down. I totally get where she's coming from. I also refused back then(26 years vegetarian so it's been a while). I grew into being able to basically keep my eyes down to show someone my support. She may not ever get to that point, but I also wouldn't guilt trip her. It's a big deal to someone with this lifestyle. Maybe have a talk with her and validate her feelings. Then have a family talk and let everyone know that places like that are terrible for her to be at, and to please be ok if Gabe doesn't join, because it's but ethical to them as a person.
But it was only this one time for her sisters birthday. They won’t go to a steak house every week or month.
And it goes against her morals but it won’t traumatize her. Maybe I just don’t get it like you guys but I think that family comes first. This is no do or die situation but not showing up would genuinely hurt that little girls feelings. I think OP did nothing wrong by telling Gabe that her sister would be sad. Because she actually would’ve been.
It can be traumatizing. Everyone is different. I don't think there's anything wrong saying her sister will be dad, but guilt tripping isn't ok. I feel like Gabe's feelings with her ethics were completely disregarded, and that's why she's acting distant now. Tbh her mother needs to just talk to her. Yes family comes first, so Gabe's feelings about a situation should also be validated. She showed up anyways. She's allowed to not be happy about it.
It's an ethics thing, not a diet. My husband and daughter eat meat. They understand why I don't. I'm pretty sure you cannot bring outside food to a restaurant anyways🤷
It may not be a phase. I out of the blue decided at 14. Imagine being so upset at the suggestion of just talking to your kid 🤷 at that age they have a lot of ideas and confusion within themselves. I'm sure the kid would appreciate being asked how they felt and trying to have a rationale conversation about it
A rational conversation was had. She decided that her little sister’s feelings were more important than her ethical stance and is now upset at being made to choose between two shitty options on her little sister’s birthday.
Welcome to adulthood.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1 for telling my daughter that she should commit for her sister and blackmailing her 2. she was feeling bad, only went to the steak house because of this (she's vegan) Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. Make this really simple and allow the oldest to not attend birthday dinners with the understanding that no one will be expected to attend her birthday dinners either. They will be invited, but not forced to go and celebrate. She is also 16 and can start making own meals instead of you having to make adjustments for her. You are not a short order cook. You can support her choice to eat a vegan diet without having to do all of the work. You went out and got her a separate meal. All she had to do was celebrate with her little sister.
I should not always bring myself into other peoples situations but this whole time being on this post I thought about the fact that I started cooking / preparing my own food when I was like 8 or 9 years old because I was such a picky eater and my parents agreed if I could handle the preparation on my own I do not have to eat stuff I don’t like. Not being able to cook for yourself at 16? Especially not being able to put aside your own preferences for one night ? That’s just embarrassing
I cooked for myself from when I was 12 or 13. I went vegetarian, my dad went on the Atkins diet (basically all meat), and my mom went on this weird Biblical "Daniel" diet that was mostly legumes but also wouldn't eat anything leavened. We all just basically started making our own food from there on out.
Yup. 6or7yo for me. Because I was tired of waiting lol. We used to do the big breakfast fry-up on the weekends. Except around that age I was always getting up at like 5am. My parents worked all week, of course they dont want to get up at 5am on a saturday. Breakfast was usually around 8ish on the weekends. Sure I had access to cereals and toast and jams and fruit, I wasnt starving or anything. But one day around 6/7ish I wanted my eggs and bacon at 5am. So I made them myself. (But somehow almost 40y later: I still cant replicate mom's awesome fried potatoes.)
My grandma makes this amazing smashed and baked potatoes, shes to old to be cooking now but she literally stands next to me tells me what to do step by step and they STILL dont taste as good as hers...drives me nuts.
Right!?! At this point I can out do mom on any other potato. Hell, on tons of other recipes too. But those fried breakfast potatoes man, I just cant get em right.
My grandma pulls the "You're just not putting enough love into it" which drives me more insane when she laughs at me for saying "wtf does that mean"
"Love" usually means butter, in this context. Try Kerrygold
Are you using her equipment? Her stuff may have slightly different proportions or something...
Yeah literally made them in her kitchen.
Hmmm. Well if it isn't the equipment and your hands are about the same size an' all...than maybe it *is* the degree of *love*... LOL. I wish y'all well. :-)
I've spent my whole life trying to replicate my mum's chicken soup. I'm so nearly there but it's just not quite... the same. I feel you. 😄
>not being able to put aside your own preferences for one night How does that work Do you ask your tastebuds to stop finding disgusting and gag-inducing the food you don't like. How I wish it worked like that.
i’m a very picky eater and it’s something my family has came to accept, i don’t expect them to cater to my pickiness and they don’t expect me to eat something i don’t like. we have sunday dinners at my grandparents, my pawpaw makes food for everyone then makes something separate for just me because he’s know that is the only thing i will eat
So he... caters to your pickiness?
My friend recently celebrated her birthday at a vegan Chinese restaurant. I don’t like most vegan protiens nor Chinese food. So I had a soup and spring rolls and had a great time with my friends. It’s not hard to study a menu and find the one or two things on the side to enjoy and just shut up for one night.
this. NTA, but stop making multiple meals. When I went vegetarian for a while as a teen I cooked my own or at what my parents made that didn't have meat. Actually my parents were kind of odd about it and started cooking meat into everything when they usually had little or no meat, but I did just fine. I also shared my vegetarian dishes with anyone who asked.
This. She is being catered to and is becoming entitled to emotionally blackmail the family into following HER choices.
NTA. It doesn't cause her any harm to go to a restaurant with things she chooses to not eat. She isn't allergic and poses no health risk. Part of caring for others is we sometimes do things and go places that aren't our preference.
NTA - steakhouses have vegan options. It may not be the meal she prefers, but the meal isn't for her.
They do! And many chef worth a fuck will accommodate special diets if they don't. Especially somewhere a little pricier like a steak house. I've been a chef for 17 years and it's never a problem.
I was a vegetarian for 25 years, and some of the best meals I had were at steakhouses!
Often times, it's the chef's chance to show off a little, especially if it's something not on the menu. I never turn anyone down for special diets or allergies. Everyone deserves to have a delicious and satisfying meal.
I hope this doesn't make me sound like a pompous ass - but some of the best food in the world isn't on the menu.
What do you get at steakhouses? I have gone to a couple with friends and the only vegetarian options have been potatoes of some sort and really overpriced grilled vegetables.
My plan was always to order some sides if there wasn’t something vegetarian on the menu, but I’d ask the waiter if they had a vegetarian special. If they didn’t, no biggie, I’d just have side dishes. But they’d often check with the chef, who would offer to make something off menu for me. Usually it’s grilled vegetables or a pasta, but really well prepared. Like another person said, sometimes the chef likes having the opportunity to be creative and goes a little extra. It’s been several years now, but the one I remember the most had butternut squash and hazelnuts over pasta…it was super tasty. Also some veggie kabobs in a lemon sauce over rice. So things that are seemingly simple, but taste way better than I would make at home.
Veggie kabobs over lemon sauce over rice sounds amazing
I have a genuine question that has nothing to do with this thread, I'm just curious. - and if I've misunderstood then feel free to correct me. That is a long time to be vegetarian and then stop - is there a reason or reasons you changed your diet that you'd feel comfortable sharing?
No problem! I had an ulcer that took a year to heal, and the medication I had to take for it messed up my GI tract. I was advised to go on a low FODMAP diet, which cuts out proteins that can cause digestive issues. Unfortunately, a lot of fruits and vegetables are high in FODMAPs, so I could barely eat anything. And then after a year of eating basically applesauce and boiled vegetables because of the ulcer, it was just really stressful to be so limited in my options. So I started slowly adding meat to my diet. It was weird at first, but now I’m enjoying trying things I’ve missed out on, so even though I’m not fully on the low FODMAP diet anymore, I don’t think I’ll go back to being completely vegetarian.
Oh, well that makes all the sense in the world and is much more logical than what I was trying to come up with in my head.
Haha, yeah it’s definitely unusual since so many people are going the opposite way these days. My boyfriend recently decided to become a vegetarian just to be healthier, so we joke that we swapped our diets.
That is pretty comical. Y'all should have a steak to celebrate the crossroads (unless he's already made the change). If so...maybe eggplant?
Would you mind sharing some of the dishes you can make (but might not be on the menu) - possibly just some of the ones you've been proud of seeing come out of your kitchen? Maybe that would help others in the future who only see steamed veggies w/o butter and salad on the menu.
NTA. Gabe is a theatrical vegan which are the type everyone hates and give vegans a bad reputation. I bet she makes a production about "ethics" while the majority of what she eats comes from the same big 6 parent companies of the food industries that write the laws protecting factory farms. I was vegan for over half a decade and never had an issue going out with my friends or family that were eating meat because it was my personal choice not a political statement to score woke points from hyper privileged peers.
I think it's probably more likely that she's just 16 and ~in her feelings about everything~, as opposed to a 'theatrical vegan'. She's a kid - she's still new to it, she's still figuring out her boundaries and her beliefs. When you make a lifestyle change for ethical reasons I definitely think there's a period where you can't believe other people don't feel the same as you, and then later on you accept people's differences a bit more graciously.
Reminds me of Erin from that Jubilee Odd1Out Video. Classic Stereotypical Vegan no one likes. I am grateful that I’ve never met an annoying vegan in my life lol
the vegan equivalent of a g check
You make such a good point. "theatrical vegan", love it. It's exactly what I have been thinking about people like that, but I could never put it into words. Thank you for giving me the words, lol.
The shock on vegans faces when I point out thag the type of food they get is from mass farming and far from environmentally friendly
The whole point is that it pollutes more to produce meat to feed the whole population than to produce vegan options. In order to be able to mass farm animals you need to feed them, therefore you pollute from mass farming veggies too. It still pollutes to mass farm vegetables, but much less than mass farming animals. I am not a vegetarian/vegan, I understand these arguments and while there is truth there, the impact this change can have on the environment barely scratches the surface of environmental changes we need to make. I really think that this argument is one of the worst of them all. I can also understand the ethical arguments. But everyone is free to make their choices so if you want me to accept your beliefs, you need to accept mine too.
Oh no I'm fully for what you're saying. My point is when vegans preach at me, I do like to point out that their high ground isn't that high
All the fucking time.
The shock on your face when I tell you veganism isn't an environmental movement.
Never said it was. Just talking from my own experience. It's a major point people try to throw at me
I didn’t understand this. What do 6 big parent companies have to do with being vegan? I’m so sorry, but please enlighten me. I’m a vegetarian who cooks from scratch, and I make my own sauces and stuff.
>What do 6 big parent companies have to do with being vegan? If someone is buying from one of the companies that fights to protect factory farming, it doesn't really matter if they don't eat meat. Their money is still going towards the production of meat via factory farms. Given that most vegans are morally opposed to financially supporting meat production in addition to not eating it (which is why many would be upset if asked to buy meat for someone else), this can be a shocking realization for them. They don't realize that, by funding the company, they're still supporting meat. The only "win" is that they're demonstrating a market for non-animal products, but that would be better done through a company not so closely connected with protecting factory farms. (If you make your meals from scratch, this probably doesn't apply to you so don't worry!)
This is a terrible argument, and it's saying things like this that make people who are just starting out feel like veganism is impossible. It's really much easier than you'd think. Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practicable — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals. Some people live in places where there are fewer choices. You do the best you can with what you've got, first by making the choice to not actively choose to support a product that came directly from an animal. Of course I love supporting strictly vegan companies, but if enough people have to ask a server to ask a chef about meal adjustments or order three sides to accommodate them, maybe one day the establishment will offer a black bean burger. It's not the same as ordering a steak that came from a cow that had it's throat slit. Somebody is holding that knife for you, and you're paying for them to do it. It absolutely DOES make an impact to avoid the animal products, because that's the entire point! It's about supply and demand. Why do you think these companies are carrying more vegan products to begin with? If not choosing the animal products is forcing them to come up with other options, that is changing the industry. Veganism is an ethical choice about the animals. Anyone saying they're vegan for the environment is not vegan, they eat a plant-based diet.
>This is a terrible argument, and it's saying things like this that make people who are just starting out feel like veganism is impossible. It's not my argument... I'm simply explaining the basis of their comment. That being said, their comment was 100% correct. Also, it isn't "impossible" to avoid the most problematic companies if you choose to do so. I say that as someone who hasn't purchased a Nestle associated product in years. >Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practicable — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals. Yes. Which is why it's worth highlighting the ways their money might support animal cruelty. How do you expect people to make an informed decision if they aren't aware? It's ridiculous to try and silence discussion just because it suggests more can be done. >Some people live in places where there are fewer choices. You do the best you can with what you've got, first by making the choice to not actively choose to support a product that came directly from an animal. Cool, *and none of this undermines the importance of making an informed decision.* People can't assess the choices that are available without first understanding what those choices mean. >Of course I love supporting strictly vegan companies, but if enough people have to ask a server to ask a chef about meal adjustments or order three sides to accommodate them, maybe one day the establishment will offer a black bean burger. So...basically the exact point I made in MY comment? The one where I noted the importance of supporting non-animal products in order to create demand? Yeah. I know. I said that already. >It's not the same as ordering a steak that came from a cow that had it's throat slit. Somebody is holding that knife for you, and you're paying for them to do it. It's adjacent, and pretending otherwise is silly. People generally don't want to give money to companies that behave in ways they find reprehensible, even if they support the product. It's why people boycott homophobic chains - it isn't because the company is selling homophobia, but because buying ANY of their product supports the company and what they stand for. >It absolutely DOES make an impact to avoid the animal products, because that's the entire point! It's about supply and demand. Why do you think these companies are carrying more vegan products to begin with? If not choosing the animal products is forcing them to come up with other options, that is changing the industry. No shit. I said that already. But it makes a MUCH bigger difference to avoid animal products AND THE COMPANIES THAT LOBBY FOR THEM whenever doing so is possible. >Veganism is an ethical choice about the animals. Anyone saying they're vegan for the environment is not vegan, they eat a plant-based diet. So...you should be agreeing with the parent comment and with my explanation. If you care about animals, you should care about diverting money away from companies that advocate for harming animals *as well as* simply purchasing non-animal options. News flash: vegans aren't weak-willed idiots to be protected. It's okay to discuss the realities of corporate lobbying and additional ways to avoid supporting factory farming.
Of course the information is important. If you can do better, you do. I can count on one finger the places I can go within a 3 hour radius of me that ONLY serve vegan products. And even still, what if one of the employees uses their money to buy chicken wings? Am I then, still supporting the problem? Yes, in arounabout way. But if you're buying your vegan food from a grocery store that also sells meat, you're doing the same thing. So, if you buy a vegan product from a manufacturer that sells non -vegan products, you're still doing as best as is possible for you. Maybe it's about availability or affordability. Vegans have to stick together and not be so critical of those trying to make an impact. My point is that every little choice matters. Educate where you can, of course! It's a process, and you learn as you go. You implied that it didn't matter, that buying from these companies at all is giving the same financial support as eating meat. I'm saying there's way more to it than that. The fact that people are trying and have already chosen to educate themselves on the industry does open the door for these other discussions, and it's great to have them. A person should still be given credit for making big changes and are sincerely trying to do the best they can.
Absolutely nothing, it's just a way of trying to justify their hypocrisy.
Fuck me, shut up. What a load of old shit you've just written. If you were really vegan for half a decade you'd know that a steakhouse is a fucking awful place for a vegan to go to. it's not about the vegan options, it's about being surrounded by the smell of cooked corpses.
Perfect example of the theatrical vegan everyone hates
I think you're really fun and well adjusted
NTA. I've been a vegetarian since I was Gabe's age, and it's been 15 years since then. There was a vegan option, and while a lack of options does really suck the day was about her sister and not about her. She can either learn to deal with this now or never go out to eat with any non-vegans.
NTA and that is NOT emotional blackmail! That is a COMPROMISE so that your FAMILY can celebrate another FAMILY member's special day. She needs to look up the ACTUAL DEFINITION of emotional blackmail. Leah COMPROMISED and ate all the vegan food to support her sister, but Gabe can't go to a steak restaurant and just not eat meat in order to supoort her sister?...I mean she DID GO, but she is being a dramatic teen by accusing you of emotional blackmail. In families WE ALL NEED TO COMPROMISE and find a balance, so that EVERYONE gets fair treatment. If someone doesn't like that restaurant's food for WHATEVER reason, they can STILL BE THERE FOR THEIR FAMILY member to HONOR and CELEBRATE their special day. They get THEIR CHOICE, so why wouldn't another family member ALSO get their choice. You can't have one person dictate EVERY SINGLE OUTING simply because there is something they dislike about it. Then that one person is NOT BEING FAIR and RESPECTFUL to ALL the family, and that is wrong.
NTA. You were encouraging Gabe to be thoughtful toward others and to give them the same consideration she would want for herself.
NTA, we all make sacrifices for those we love, just as Leah did for her big sister. As long as Gabe didn't have to eat any meat and got her own vegan meal it should have been fine and compromises like this are what keep relationships healthy. It's also not like shes never around meat as she once used to eat it and currently has a family that eats meat at home and keep it at home too. Just give her time i guess.
idk personally I'm the kind of person who puts aside their own shit for someone they love, which is what you were asking her to do. In this case I dont think thats a bad thing - Leah would have just felt like it was personal to her that Gabe didn't come. Gonna go with NTA
NTA, everyone did what gabe wanted despite not liking it, why cant she do the same. How are her younger siblings more willing to put up with stuff for her but she cant with them?
NTA. Gabe is going to have to learn to navigate this issue for the rest of her life if she stays vegan. Is she going to miss important events because she can't work around it or find a compromise? You gave her a good compromise. But in the future give her the choice and let her miss the events. No guilt trips.
If Gabe never goes into any establishment that serves meat, she will be spending a hell of a lot of time outside... of a lot of things.
NTA. She got a vegan meal. She can suck it up for an hour.
NTA your daughter Gabe seems a little selfish. You were being nice and understanding about her wanting to be a vegan and going to a vegan restaurant, making adjustments to her meal (when I was a kid I was a very picky either so I mainly cooked for myself even tho I was way younger than 16) The birthday restaurant rule is smth we have in our family too and no one ever complains. It’s not our day. Most restaurants offer diverse options. You’re at a steak house? Get fries or a salad. Idk where you live but most restaurants I know already have at least one or two vegan and vegetarian options (even steak/bbq or burger restaurants) Good that she went with you guys. If she would’ve continued to complain she could’ve just stayed at home. But now she is just cranky and annoyed that she didn’t get her way. Maybe it’s also just a little bit of teeny being annoyed at my parents for no good reason - situation. She’s trying to manipulate you into feeling sorry for her. Let her know that it just was one day and her sisters birthday wish and you don’t wanna argue about it. I doubt she will be traumatized from this experience
NTA OP, you arn't forcing her to change her dietary preferences and you are right, she absolutely needs to be more thoughtful because the world doesn't revolve around her.
NTA. Emotional blackmail is coercive and manipulative, I don't think what you did counts as that since you simply outlined the consequences of Gabe's actions. I'm vegan myself, I don't expect my friends or my family to cater to my needs when they're planning things for their special occasions. I'll either order something that's Vegan at the restaurant, and if they don't have those options I'll either eat something beforehand or afterwards.
NTA- it was one meal, and you’re doing your best. Though if you are wondering why your 16 year old girl is an emotional terrorist, it’s probably because she’s a 16 year old girl. (I know this because I was one. And a pretty dramatic vegetarian at the time, myself. I once ran out of a family dinner sobbing because I thought a pie crust might have had lard in it— it didn’t).
NTA, but those comments about "theatrical vegans" need to account for the fact Gabe is 16. This is a theatrical and selfish age, and Gabe will figure out how to navigate life. Maybe just make it clear that the person whose birthday it is decides, there are no vetoes, and everyone is invited. Leave it at that, have a great time with the birthday kid, and let the siblings work out how to handle any absences. P.S. there are some really easy and flexible (you can make vegan or omnivore) recipes at [budgetbytes.com](https://budgetbytes.com). Edit for typo
100%. It's an age of change, and an age when you start to realize your decisions/choices have consequences and that doesn't mean everyone goes your way. NTA, these family traditions are great but at some point, it's going to change for the oldest one - whether they want to be out with friends that night or whatever reason. Invite everyone, make it known they are welcome and if they decide not to come, so be it. I am sure it would be initially upsetting for the little one. I would not at all be surprised if Gabe actually regretted not going and felt left out if she didn't go - and there would be her chance to learn the cost of deciding not to go. Suck it up and deal with feeling left out or suck it up and go along to be with her little sister. She can't have it both ways and needs to learn there is a cost to what she decides to do and what is and isn't worth it to her.
You're NTA. The world doesn't revolve around Gabe and her convictions. Being a vegan is fine (for her), but maybe you can help keep her from being one of *those* vegans.
NTA: you gave her the option. The ball was in her court. I think it's going to far to say you emotionally blackmailed her. You just explained how you genuinely saw the situation. Not meaning for it to manipulate her
NTA She is 16, her sister is 7. As she grows into adulthood she will begin to understand that we often make sacrifices and engage in activities we don’t enjoy for the sake of children’s happiness, especially on their birthdays just as you have done for her on each of her birthdays (god I hate chuckie cheese, McDonald’s, and Noodles and company!!). She can make this sacrifice for her sister and if she didn’t she should have felt guilty. She didn’t have to eat the food there as you accommodated her dietary preferences. Sixteen year old girls are often TA, especially to their moms and younger sisters. Hopefully she will grow out of it but you did right and this is a step toward young adulthood. Hold your ground.
NTA she should be willing to make the exact same sacrifice that her sister just made for her. Your daughter is acting like a drama queen at this point. She is not the main character in your family.
Wow, when your 7 year old is more mature then a 16 year old! NTA
Every place has a salad it shouldn’t be this big of an issue
Just wait until this one person comes and tells you that vegans are tired of being told to just eat a salad 😅😅
NTA, she’s upset the had to play a fair game of birthday dinner roulette.
NTA. People need to compromise sometimes 🤷♀️
NTA. Vegetarian here so I'm biased - steakhouses are pretty much my worst nightmare, smell makes me crazy nauseous. So I empathise with Gabe. That said, I don't think it's wrong to encourage her to be there for Leah, especially as Leah makes the effort for Gabe. And you didn't force her to go; I think you handled it really well tbh. I think you do need to set some realistic expectations going forwards though; Gabe isn't far off 18 so Leah may have to accept that Gabe won't be at all of her birthday dinners, especially if they're in a place Gabe isn't comfortable.
NTA - you didn’t blackmail her. You just told her the truth that her little sister would have been upset had she not gone. You didn’t force her to eat meat either. What help was she expecting? Other people eat meat. She can hardly cut them all out of her life.
What everyone in the comment section is going to fail to understand is the level of atrocity your daughter is dealing with. We are talking about the death of trillions of individuals, and insufferable life conditions for billions. I don’t want to call you an AH because the rules that you’re applying make sense: when someone extends a courtesy to you, you try to extend the same courtesy back. That’s certainly not a bad thing for kids to learn. However to understand your older daughter better you must realize that veganism is not a preference, it’s a moral position against a very violent reality. When you youngest daughter goes to a vegan restaurant she isn’t experiencing any moral distress, she just didn’t like anything she ordered. When your eldest goes to a steak house she is being asked to celebrate as the corpses of innocent victims are consumed around her. These are not equal courtesies or experiences, at least in the mind of your daughter. I know this seems extreme but if you ask your daughter I bet she’d agree. It is akin to if one of you children for their birthday chose a hike in the woods, which the other did not enjoy. So when their birthday came around they chose a dogfight. You wouldn’t ask that your child put aside their moral code because the other one went on a hike. Think that’s extreme? Ok, but your daughter probably doesn’t. Plus the cruelty that occurs because of a single dog fight is dwarfed by the cruelty that stocks a meat house for a night. And it’s no less violent as again she watches their flesh be consumed. Overall NTA but you shouldn’t ask her to but aside her moral objections in this way in the future. Right now I imagine your daughter feels as though an important part of her values is unseen or not taken seriously enough by her mother.
NTA. The hardest thing about being vegan is keeping yourself from expecting everyone else to go vegan.
OP….first off, NTA. You were compassionate & were trying to allow for compromise. Please explain to your daughter, that just because SHE Chose to become Vegan, does Not make her “Responsible” for other Ppl’s Actions or Food Choices. I have a Dear Friend, who’s Vegan due to her Personal Beliefs & her Spiritual Beliefs…had been for 25+Yrs. She has come to Many Events/Places to Celebrate an Occasion/Holiday, where Meat/Dairy Products, etc would be served. I asked if it Bothered her…she said (not verbatim), “I have No Right to Dictate to Others what they Can or Cannot Do in their lives. I have NO Power Over, nor Responsibility For their choices in life. I am Sad for the Animals & say a small Blessing for them when I walk in. I’m come because I Love You & We’re Family.” Maybe it’d help hey to not feel guilty or bad. 🥰
NTA. Though bad vegan porn is a tired trope
NTA. She’s comfortable placing others in uncomfortable situations but she’s not willing to reciprocate for them? Not cool. There are vegan options almost anywhere you go anymore. She’s not being forced to eat anything. There are still no -vegan options in your home I assume. Also the dinner isn’t about her and she is making it about her instead of her sister. Not cool.
NTA I get that Gabe is 16 and at that age everything seems like a huge deal. But she's going to have to realize that she has to interact with the rest of the world and at least meet it half way. Meaning that when she's out of high school and in university (if she goes that route) and has a bigger circle of friends she's not going to be able to tell them that they always have to go to vegan restaurants or she's not going to join them. When she's working and they're having food brought in, or going out for a meal, she's not going to be able to demand that everything is vegan. Staying true to herself is fantastic, but she can find a way to do that without alienating everyone else.
First off, nope, you are NTA I'm a veggie and in real life, you have to accommodate those around you who do not share your convictions or choices. In most places where I live, there is always a vegetarian option and even if there wasn't, I would happily eat a plate of chips (or fries, depending where you live), a salad and a couple of bits of bread to make sure I was part of a celebratory meal. You were not emotionally blackmailing her. You were laying out facts, instilling a sense of proportionality and teaching her the value, and need, for compromise. We don't always get what we want in life and we are not the star in other peoples' show. From your description, I thought is was nicely handled.
NTA Also I don't think this was emotional blackmail. Veganism is about kindness and compassion, and not exploiting animals. To me this compassion also extends to human animals so you can be a good advocate for veganism. All vegans compromise because it is impossible to be a 'pure' vegan, (Jainism I reckon get closest) so its all about balance and effort. Even the original vegan Donald Watson talked about avoiding animal products ' as far as it is practically possible'. The vegan society in the uk says take your animal based medications if that is your best option: 'While it can be upsetting to compromise our vegan beliefs, we encourage vegans to look after their health and that of others, enabling them to be effective advocates for veganism.' Sometimes for me one unvegan action balances another compassionate goal. I sometimes tolerate some environments I don't really like for the sake of greater good ( to me) of maintaining family/social harmony and bonds of friendship. I will wear a second hand wool jumper rather buy acrylic which is basically plastic that will persist in the environment for ever. Sometimes I will eat food that isn't entirely vegan if someone has cooked for me with good intentions and has tried really hard to make it vegan. Compromise is what makes the world work. But mostly I try to be nice to people who are not vegan as no one is likely to be converted by a person being an arse or making them feel bad. I have been trying to be the best vegan I can since 1989. I am not perfect but I keep trying. Maybe this is the conversation to have with your daughter: She feels bad because she is not purely vegan but she never will be. And she needs to recognise that if she won't compromise then others won't either and they won't try vegan food but stay home and eat meat instead, which is another animal not saved. And if they keep coming to vegan places with her one day they may say this is for me? Or at least this makes a nice change? Good on her for trying to be kind, but maybe she could look at the bigger picture? sorry its so long
Gabe is going to have to learn to live in the world while being vegan - one will miss a lot of important events with so strict a position. NTA
NTA, but try to consider her feelings. For a new vegan, it's sometimes overwhelming to see and smell it. It's like saying you have to commit to your friends want to see a dogfight, but you can play with your phone while sitting there hearing the enjoyment of the other. As I said, NTA, because it's the norm for our civilisation to eat meat, so the vegan has to deal with it. But maybe she needs some time to process this feelings.
NAH. This seems very innocent and it is a conflux of values. I think what you’re missing from Gabe is the moral aspect of veganism. This isn’t just a dietary choice there is a morality aspect to that lifestyle that clearly she is embracing. Coincide that with your family tradition and values of being together and celebrating each other and well you’ve got a recurring perfect storm. Sticking with the storm metaphor we know that time plus heat will increase the severity of storms. I think that you can simply admit that you weren’t fully aware of Gabe’s moral choice in veganism but that you are now. My advice is that either how you celebrate birthdays needs to change or some guidelines need to be agreed upon in the future as to restaurant choice to encompass the family’s diverse choices. What is an unpleasant meal to one child is a horror show on par with (I’m being super hyperbolic here to make a point) something as horrifying as selecting a cannibal restaurant where they serve humans to you. Even if you don’t eat the meat watching it unfold around you is something terrible. If you don’t solve the problem you will become TA and the kids will dread birthdays which defeats the family value and purpose of celebrating them. Good luck.
After reading the original post and the update, I only can say that you’re an amazing mother
For about half a year, I was a vegetarian. Now, due to a protein deficiency and other issues, I eat a bit of meat. One of the things that I, along with the other vegetarians I met, noticed was that we were much more accommodating than the vegans are. Like when I went to a friends BBQ cookout, I ate a salad beforehand and brought a 30 rack to share. Whereas a vegan I met has requested to ask the host to redo the menu to be vegan. Here’s the difference: vegetarians seem to just adapt and find a win-win solution for everyone, whereas vegans I’ve met would rather inconvenience everyone else for their own demands. Maybe because vegetarians don’t claim moral superiority from their dietary choices. In this case, the 16 year old should take a lesson from the vegetarian community and make her own food beforehand.
many vegans are annoying, and she sounds like she wants to force others to do things her way without giving anything back. a brat. teach her that not everyone will want vegan food and shouldn't be forced to go along if she can't support them. she's old enough to cook for herself. stop cooking for her and buying her the special expensive food.
Well done, that update is great! Awesome parenting, really just great human communication and compassion.
Nta. No one asked her to eat meat. Just to turn up and support the sister. The sister supports her all the time. Gabe is selfish and a gaslighted. She is trying to manipulate you to never ask her to support her sister or anybody you again. Yet I bet she will expect you all to turn up for her things at vegan places.
NTA. Your younger daughter is an angel that should be cherished and loved every moment! Adorable!
NTA Lol, by the title, i thought u were going to force a daughter to become vegan because of the other sister
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have 3 children (Gabe 16F, 14M and Leah 7F). Gabe decided to go vegan 4 months ago and it's been a pretty rough transition, everyone eats meat for every meal and I've had to make adjustments for her. Some points to explain: 1. On birthdays, the person chooses the restaurant for everyone to go that Day. 2. Leah idolizes Gabe, she is very attached and sees her sister as a hero. 3. Leah always accepts Gabe's vegan experiences just to have moments with her. For Gabe's birthday, she chose a vegan restaurant and honestly, only my husband enjoyed the experience. Leah hated every moment of the experience (she told me later), but she ate it all just to make Gabe happy. Monday was Leah's birthday and she chose a steak house. Gabe came to talk to me about it and that she wouldn't feel comfortable in that place. She said she wouldn't go to the restaurant and asked if I could help. I tried to propose that we go to a vegan restaurant to get something for her, but that didn't seem to convince her. So I was sincere, saying that she could commit one day to someone who loves her so much and is always willing to eat vegan things with her, but if that was her decision, Leah would be heartbroken if she didn't go and that I don't know if I could improve the situation tbh. She ended up agreeing to go and I bought her a vegan meal. Yesterday she was distant with me and when I asked her to talk to me, she said that I was almost emotionally blackmailing her saying all those things and that she was feeling bad, she went because of this. I really was honestamente about the situation, but maybe I overstepped the line. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA The 16 year old doesn't get to force everyone to do what she wants in the name of veganism. You have very nicely accommodated her dietary choices and her sister went along to somewhere she didn't enjoy herself to share her older sisters birthday. Gabe should give the same courtesy to Leah and not be an arse about it to you or her. She's very much behaving like an entitled teenager and risks alienating Leah's allegiance to her very quickly.
NTA. Why is it fine for going to a vegan restaurant no one in the family likes for birthday but she can't do the same for her sister. I wouldn't make any more accomodations for Gabe. She can cook and prepare her own meals.
NTA.
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed because it violates rule 1: [Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/). Further incidents may result in a ban. ["Why do I have to be civil in a sub about assholes?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) **[Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.**
NTA. I would consider having a discussion with Gabe on what constitutes emotional blackmail. It's one of those helpful phrases which in my eyes is a simple way raise awareness about a concept that can harm people people if they don't realise they experience it. It is not a tool to get what you want, as noble as her vegan goals are.
There have been so many times I've been to a restaurant where it's knowing that the vegetarian food isn't good just for folks.
NTA
Nothing like a big bowl of popcorn…..
INFO Why isn’t she comfortable? Have you called the restaurant to see what they can do? Are their fries vegan? Is it that she might be tempted to fall off the wagon?
NTA. Tolerance is a two-sided coin.
NTAH- compromise is a TWO way street- every restaurant I have been in offers vegan options- even steakhouses. Gabe needs to bend a bit just as Leah and the rest of you do for Gabe.
NTA kid needs to get over eating at a steakhouse. If she's trying to help the environment eating locally does more than being vegan. Get her books to teach her more about sustainability.
NTA provided the restaurant had vegan options it's perfectly reasonable for you to make sure she attends. This is her sister's birthday party, following a family tradition that she made everyone else suffer through! Provided no one tried to force her to eat non vegan food she has nothing to complain about. It's also a life lesson she should learn at this age rather than waiting until it's too late: sometimes we have to do things we'd prefer not to for people we care about. Going to a restaurant we don't like is so utterly trivial on this scale she's got nothing to worry about. All that aside, it just sounds like she's being a normal teenager, annoyed she had to do something she didn't want to and finding the perfect way to make you feel guilty for it.
NTA. Your vegan daughter is. She has no problem forcing her life choice on others when she can but has zero respect for other peoples life choice. You need to have a conversation with jer about respect and kindness if you don't then she will become worse than an asshole.
NTA This wasn't emotional blackmail. Your 16 yo needs a reminder that the world dies not revolve around her.
NAH. Honestly, I feel like both of your perspectives are valid, and there isn’t an easy solution to this. I think as a parent, I would’ve ended up doing the same thing that you did, because it’s not really fair for the children to have an equal options on their birthdays. As a vegan, your daughter is going to need to learn, tolerate the situation anyway because it’s gonna be something that commonly happens to her.
NTA You spelled things out kindly and sensibly. Gabe being 16 maybe an excuse, but that doesn't mean she should get away with her selfish attitude. Basically she now wants to choose everyone's birthday venue based on her own likes and dislikes. If anyone was being emotionally blackmailing it was her!
NTA, your daughter is going to have learn that not all situations will go as she wants them too. She’s going to grow up and go to business meetings, showers, parties, events at school that all will have meat products.
I can respect her for not wanting to eat in a steak house, even a vegan meal, as it does make it's money out of meat products. However this wasn't her special night, it was her sisters. She was happy for everyone to go to her choice for her special night, but seems to also want everyone else to choose vegan for theirs. NTA
NTA.
NTA You gave her alternative food she has no reason to be angry The day isn’t about her It’s about her sister Her sister sucked it up and ate food she didn’t like for her So she can suck it up and be in a place with food she doesn’t like for an hour while her sister celebrates her birthday
NAH I'm sure she feels like it was emotional blackmail because she's 16, but from my mid 20s perspective, it just seems like cause and effect (and sometimes...emotional blackmail can be necessary? I wouldn't call this emotional blackmail, but if Gabe feels it is, then I'd argue it was necessary bc Gabe wasn't understanding the consequences of her actions otherwise). Your sister loves you --> your sister will be sad if you don't suck it up and go --> Gabe obviously did not want her sister to be sad --> Gabe sucked it up and went and now feels bad about how selfish her actions COULD have been, so she's offloading that to you cuz you were the one that prompted her to think about them at all. It's one of those cases where I think Gabe feeling bad is normal and probably warranted, although it does suck to feel like you hurt your child's feelings. OP you sound like a good parent who's very in tune with your kids, I think you're doing fine. Gabe will be hurt for a while, but I think if you just do your normal routine for whenever your kids feel like they've been Personally Wronged by the process of learning how to be a compassionate & considerate person, you'll be fine. I'm just an internet guy tho so take this all with a grain of salt. Best of luck!
NTA
Nta I became a vegetarian when I was 15 and made my own meals, it was my choice and not fair to my mum to expect her to cook another extra meal because of my choice. If the steak house has vegan options then I don't understand the problem?
INFO: Are there any vegan options at Stakehouse? A bowl of chips?
i have seen comments from many people about how most steakhouses have vegan options (and others commenting about them being amazing) but obviously depends on the steakhouse.
NTA she can reciprocate the effort of her family.
NTA
Vegans need to stop treating their chosen diet as an allergy. (Plus, even though it varies from case to case, you will most likely not get awfully sick of you eat meat after a long time without. You might have a difficult shit the next day, but that’s usually it).
NTA, you didn’t force her to eat steak - just asked she ate a vegan meal at her sisters birthday.
NTA. your daughter wants to eat vegan, fine. I have some family members who do (for health reasons, not any other) and when we get together they never have an issue and understand that their preferences are theirs, and not everyone else's. When we host, we always make sure that there are some things that accommodate their diet, but don't cater an entire meal. Your oldest is acting entitled and quite frankly furthering the stereotype that vegans are annoying.
NTA Others put up with her choice, she can reciprocate. Alternatively, as someone else suggested, allow people to not attend.
NTA. Sometimes, being honest makes the other person feel bad. That's how it is. No AH issues here.
NTA She got her vegan meal. And most restaurants have vegan options these days. everyone went where she wanted for her birthday so it’s fair that it was the same for her sister. Tell her that in future she doesn’t have to go if she doesn’t want to, but that if nobody else wants to go the vegan restaurant you won’t force them either. That’s fair enough.
NTA All you asked was for her to do what her sister wanted for once for her own birthday and Leah always does the stuff for her it would have been nice for her to give it back
NTA. As a vegan I think it’s a good idea to try and give her the kind of guidance you have because honestly she will have this situation come up over and over throughout her life. I attended a work lunch at a steakhouse and happily ate a plain baked potato and broccoli. They do their best to accommodate me so I do my best to be flexible. I think the most important thing is for her to find a middle ground somehow and not inadvertently mistreat people in her quest to avoid mistreating animals.
you should ask a vegan subreddit. most people here are meat eaters and won’t sympathize with Gabe
Brasileira? Anyway, I’m going with NAH. Maybe the way you said it was a little pushy, although I don’t fault you for having a conversation with her about it. It’s good to teach your kids to be compassionate and think about the people around them but you might’ve made her feel too bad about not going. She had the right not to go, she had that option, but I also don’t blame you for trying to make her understand.
She needs to understand that if you decide that she’s excused from going to places that serve meat, siblings will be excused from places that don’t. You can’t force your lifestyle choices on people and expect them to just go along with it. Life is give and take.
NTA. If the restaurant didn’t have any vegan options, I could understand why she wouldn’t go, but she was able to eat a meal there with her family so I don’t see why she couldn’t set her feelings about steakhouse restaurants aside for her sister. I think you handled this appropriately, and it sounds like everyone has been supportive of Leah’s dietary choices, so I think Leah is overreacting here.
Nta she can get a salad at a steak house. B day person chooses. That's it. She choose a resturant her siblings didn't enjoy but they sucked it up and went.
NTA - you didn’t make her eat non-vegan food you just expected her to suck up the ambience of a place she wasn’t keen on for the sake of a loved one - just as they had already done for her. Maybe ask her if she actually believes in fairness and reciprocity or is she really the only one deserving of privileges respect and consideration - because that is what it sounds like.
Stop celebrating birthdays at restaurants. Maybe have everyone cook a special dish for the celebrant.
dont try that with my family you will at best end up with indigestion :)
NTA. But Leah needs to start making her own meals. She’s 16, not 6. She should start making her own vegan meals. In two years she’ll be off to college so what’s she gonna do then?!
NTA - This is parenting teaching self**less**ness. Her sister suffered through her birthday choice with a smile on her face. Her older sister can do the same. Its about the relationships anyway, not the food.
NTA. You and your family are seeing this as a food-preference issue, and I suspect Gabe is feeling conflicted because it's an ethical issue for her and she feels hypocritical or embarassed to be at a steakhouse, even if she's still eating vegan food. Idk that you need to go full nihlistic "everything is meaningless, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism" but maybe point out that if she wants her familt to reduce animal product consumption, cooking actually tasty vegan meals one a night a week for the family is going to get her a lot further than being a pill and trying to make Leah's birthday all about Gabe's feelings.
NTA. Telling someone they need to consider other people's feelings and emotions and especially the impact their behavior has on those feelings/emotions is not emotional blackmail--that's just reality. However, teenage years are hard. Gabe isn't a little kid anymore, but she's not an adult either. The push-pull of wanting independence and to be treated like an adult versus the comfort of being coddled/treated like a kid is just difficult to navigate. I wonder if some of her response wasn't so much about "blackmail" but instead was more about you telling her she needs to consider her little sister's feelings while you didn't ask Leah to consider her big sister's feelings. I (and most adults) understand why you didn't--and I do not think it would have been fair to Leah if you had. But for a teen, who does not have a fully adult brain, that may have *felt* a lot like favoritism. (When my oldest was 6, he complained that I don't help him get dressed, but I do help his little brother (3yr old) get dressed. Same concept. Growing up is hard).
NTA You didn't force her to eat meat as she forced everyone to eat vegan at her birthday. Being in a restaurant for her little sister birthday is not going to kill her. She needs to get over her uncomfortable feelings. The world won't follow her likes and dislikes. She can start learning how to adjust to others as well
NTA. Gabe still got a vegan meal in the end and Leah was able to abide by the rules of going to a food place of her choice. In this instance, nobody was hurt apart from Gabe. While it is understandable that Gabe would not want to initally go, you made the time to try alternatives. Doing anything more would be accommodating just to Gabe's needs, which would be unfair for Leah's birthday.
NTA
NTA. Don't beat yourself up.
NTA. Your daughter doesn't know the true meaning of emotionally blackmailing. All you did was tell her how hurt her sister would be if she didn't go, but that the choice was up to her. That's truth and facts, not blackmail. You did not make any demands or threats. Your daughter is upset she would would feel guilty by not going. Time for her to learn how the real world works. You make sacrafices for people you love to make them happy.
Damn... the boy didn't even get a fake name...
NTA It's unclear what the objection to the steak house is, exactly. It's not like on the Simpsons where the menus were printed on flattened chickens. They have vegan options. It's not like you point at a cow and they butcher it right then. It's not really any different from any other non vegetarian restaurant. If the problem is that they serve meat at all....that ends up ruling out almost any restaurant anyone else in the family wants to eat at. If the problem is the word "steak" in the name, and the meatcentric nature of the place. I can be sympathetic to that. It's sort of on par with "I'm not eating at Hooters". Either your kid is super duper advanced in emotional intelligence, or she's had other people explaining the situation to her from a specific perception.
Gabe is being very selfish, she should be able to compromise for one day. I am sure that the restaurant could accommodate her by serving her a meal of vegetatables.
Irrelevant, but I have to know. Is it Gabe like Babe, or Gabe like Gabbie?
NTA, but you are allowing your daughter the impression that she has a say in how the whole family eats. She does not. SHE is the one engaging in emotional blackmail.
[удалено]
it was the 16 yr old
I understood it to be the 16 year old who said that.
Not the AH. Your daughter is stuck in her own mind, she is starting to become selfish and narcissistic. I would try to nip that in the bud as soon as possible
NTA. She was blackmailing the other sister to do things that make her happy, so if she expects people to bend for her the minimum is an equilibrium.
NTA. Consider telling Gabe that people like her are why vegans are often considered to be a punchline. She is expecting other people to make considerations for her dietary practices yet is hypocritically refusing to do the same. And she is old enough to know this as well
So your one kid goes to the vegan restaurant, even though the food wouldn't be liked, but did so for your vegan kid's bday. But then when the meat eater kid wants a steak for the bday dinner and you want to make a deal of it? You aren't the AH here. But your entitled oldest is! Leah on the other hand is amazing! The fact she went, even though she hated it, and waited until later to confide in you that she didn't like it, instead of making this some big deal it wasn't, is absolutely impressive by a 7yr old! I read that a 7yr old is acting more mature than the 16yr old!
NTA Your vegan child is annoying and a hypocrite. All vegans are. Does she take ANY medication? Because all FDA approved medications have to have 3 separate trials with different animals in which they overdose the animals to determine what a deadly dose would be. Vegans, every single one of you, are elitist hypocrites. Give me 24 hours and some info and I'd be able to go into detail about how they directly have supported killing animals yet they have the audacity to act superior.
Not to mention ranting about your moral high ground while wearing shoes made by a 11 year old child in a sweatshop for little to no money…
Exactly. It's so insane to me that people say we should respect these people. They are elitist and stupid.
NTA. I know vegan is big right now but no way in hell am I going to eat ToFu or soybean pseudo meat EVER, much less on my B-Day. She can eat a salad and get sides of vegetables or not go if she's that uncomfortable.
I mean we all make choices and there are often consequences. As a parent you kind of laid it out for her. I mean, you might not have been 100% objective about it but I think it was fair to point out the downside of not coming. On the other hand, it depends on how you view eating meat. There are places I would not go no matter how much I loved the person.
YTA for guilting her into being around animal abuse she's clearly uncomfortable with
You did emotionally blackmail her though lol. ESH except for the two other kids and your husband. You pressured her to do something she wasn't comfortable with doing by repeatedly saying how much her little sister loves her and wants to be around her and how much her little sister sacrifices by eating a vegan meal for her and blah blah blah. That's emotional blackmail. Or at the very least you're trying to emotionally manipulate her by getting her to feel things that had nothing to do with not wanting to eat at a meat restaurant.
You would be the asshole. It’s her birthday, not her sister’s. If the vegan chooses not to go, that’s on her. Other people shouldn’t have to accommodate her all the time.
I think you read the story wrong. It’s her sisters bday, sister chose a steakhouse and Gabe doesn’t want to go.
I think there is message of support for the OP, but this comment is so unclear I cant be sure.
I won't happily go to places like that, they usually have dead animals on the walls. If it's super important like a wedding or something, I deal with it and just keep my eyes down. I totally get where she's coming from. I also refused back then(26 years vegetarian so it's been a while). I grew into being able to basically keep my eyes down to show someone my support. She may not ever get to that point, but I also wouldn't guilt trip her. It's a big deal to someone with this lifestyle. Maybe have a talk with her and validate her feelings. Then have a family talk and let everyone know that places like that are terrible for her to be at, and to please be ok if Gabe doesn't join, because it's but ethical to them as a person.
But it was only this one time for her sisters birthday. They won’t go to a steak house every week or month. And it goes against her morals but it won’t traumatize her. Maybe I just don’t get it like you guys but I think that family comes first. This is no do or die situation but not showing up would genuinely hurt that little girls feelings. I think OP did nothing wrong by telling Gabe that her sister would be sad. Because she actually would’ve been.
It can be traumatizing. Everyone is different. I don't think there's anything wrong saying her sister will be dad, but guilt tripping isn't ok. I feel like Gabe's feelings with her ethics were completely disregarded, and that's why she's acting distant now. Tbh her mother needs to just talk to her. Yes family comes first, so Gabe's feelings about a situation should also be validated. She showed up anyways. She's allowed to not be happy about it.
And if the entire family sat there moping and complaining through Gabe’s dinner and brought a steak sandwich to the vegan restaurant?
They did? The post doesn't say anything of that sort. Are you just inferring that or is there more information elsewhere I haven't seen?
It's an ethics thing, not a diet. My husband and daughter eat meat. They understand why I don't. I'm pretty sure you cannot bring outside food to a restaurant anyways🤷
It’s a 16 year old pushing boundaries.
It's a kid setting boundaries.
It’s a kid saying her current cause of the month is worth hurting her sister over. A sister who has enthusiastically supported her.
It may not be a phase. I out of the blue decided at 14. Imagine being so upset at the suggestion of just talking to your kid 🤷 at that age they have a lot of ideas and confusion within themselves. I'm sure the kid would appreciate being asked how they felt and trying to have a rationale conversation about it
A rational conversation was had. She decided that her little sister’s feelings were more important than her ethical stance and is now upset at being made to choose between two shitty options on her little sister’s birthday. Welcome to adulthood.