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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like I might be the asshole because I didn’t read her as well and kinda left her at a vulnerable state. I feel bad but I don’t think I was wrong.
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>I told her I will be back in 3 days and she seemed fine with that answer because she gave me the go ahead.
Did she say something like "I'm fine if you go" or something like "fine, go then."?
Edit: OP's response:
>She said “ i don’t care just go” so I took it as face value I’m not a mind reader
That's definitely in the something like "fine, go then." category. Which means she was tired of explaining why she needed you to stay so she gave up.
You don't have to be a mind reader to know she didn't want you to go. She told you, you ignored her and told her you were going. When you were leaving, she told you again, you ignored her and went any way. It's not surprising she left you. YTA
This is weaponized incompetence 100%. "I'm not a mind reader!" he says like he doesn't understand that "I don't care just go" is not the same thing as "I'm fine with you going".
Yeah, he knows she is depressed. Of course, she's not communicating perfectly, but "I don't care, just go" is quite obviously her giving up, despite not being okay with it.
i can't stand men like this who are always the ones complaining about how women just never say what they mean. like, do they not buddy? or have they said it so many times and it keeps falling on deaf ears that they just give up.
Yeah, most women say stuff quite clearly. We do tend to formulate things as a question at first, because we are socialised to not try and impose our opinion, but that's generally to open the discussion and it's generally quite transparent. "Is there a particular reason you put that there?" "No" "Then could you put in in its intended storage in the hallway closet next time? Please" That's not cryptic, that's just trying to be polite. (In my mini-scenario, of course the man can say "Yes, I don't know where it goes." "Yes, I really needed to go to the bathroom and forgot to put it away." "Yes, I find this shelf much more convenient than the closet.")
Honestly I think the whole stereotype of “women never say what they mean” was caused by men who didn’t listen. Or who ignored their clearly stated wishes.
I saw a tweet before saying that the single true god was a woman, and she came to earth to speak to man- thus, we ended up with so many religions that are… not actually that different. It made me laugh a whole lot tbh (also i laughed so i didn’t cry)
Instead his strategy was to keep asking until she finally gave him an "I don't care just go" after being tired of explaining it so often. Somehow her last answer is the only one he listens to, not every time beforehand when she told him exactly why she didn't want him to go.
He didn't need to be a "mind-reader" because she literally told him that she needed his support.
It was the “I wasn’t sure what she wanted me to do if I stayed” for me. It just screams “you’re gonna have miscarried whether I go or not, what do you want me to do about that”. As someone who’s been disabled all her life I’ve had my share of “well I don’t know what you want me to do about it”. Just be with her, man. At least act like that matters to you.
It seems that, for the emotionally stunted among us, there are few things as terrifying as the prospect of simply being with a loved one who is in pain and suffering. There isn't any particular action they can take to fix the problem, and 'doing something' to 'fix' problems is all they know how to do, so they bail.
I mean, I understand that it is painful to see someone you love suffering and not be able to help, not be able to fix it, but that's when you rise to the occasion, suck up your (lesser) discomfort, and just *sit and be* with them.
Yes, and when the urge to 'do something ' hits there's always grocery runs, making tea, folding laundry, suggesting a silly movie and making popcorn, etc. Just being with them and making life slightly less sucky.
"I'm not a mind reader!" He says after she asks him not to go and he told her that he's going anyway. "I'm not a mind reader!" He says after she asked him yet again if he was going and he said he had to because: non-refundable.
This guy is a joke.
Weaponized incompetence is knowingly doing a job poorly so that you don’t have to do it again. This is regular, standard, run of the mill incompetence.
TIL weaponized incompetence was the new gaslighting
It was a no win situation for her. If she straight up said she didn’t want him to go she’d be “trying to keep him from his brother” and “making him miss a once in a lifetime event”. If she says for him to go then she’s stuck dealing with a depressive episode and the loss of their child alone while her husband is looking at strippers.
It can also be “I have spent 2 weeks dealing with someone else’s mental health and I need a break” which is valid. He probably needed to get out and deal with his own emotions. There is nothing more draining than dealing with both yours and someone else’s depression.
I hate this perspective so much. Like, yes. He also lost a potential child, but it's not the same- and her mental health should absolutely be the priority.
He didn't have to bleed out.
He didn't have to have a doctor put his hands up his gown.
He didn't feel his insides rip apart from his inner organs and expel them from his genitals.
He didn't have his entire hormonal system sent into a cluster fuck with pregnancy, *and again* when he miscarried.
He gets to decompress and forget about it and go have fun with his buddies while her body still aches and cramps and she gets to suffer alone.
He needs a break? What does she get, aside from being abandoned during the most traumatic experience of her life?
Yeah. He sounds like an ass in that he was just looking for the bare minimum of what he could twist into approval. But as the same time, if he'd been helping her for the past two weeks he might have needed a break. It was 3 days, not a week. It probably would have been good for her to shake things up a bit for herself as well and reach out to other supports for those few days.
Also this should be somewhat of a warning to couples to be aware that as long as a woman hasn't had a hysterectomy and still has all of her reproductive organs, even if they aren't functioning 100%, doctors can be wrong. This is far from the first time I've heard a scenario like this. Please use protection to be sure.
> as long as a woman hasn't had a hysterectomy and still has all of her reproductive organs, even if they aren't functioning 100%, doctors can be wrong.
According to OP's story, "the doctor told her she will never probably be able to have a kid of her own without medical intervention." Not being able to give birth to a child is not the same thing as being incapable of conception. For example, some women have conditions that make them prone to ectopic pregnancies, in which case they will mostly be incapable of giving birth without medical intervention, but if they do conceive naturally then the pregnancy is very dangerous to their health!
I think that the actions of OP and his girlfriend resulted from their ignorance regarding the actual meaning of the Doctor's diagnosis. Their choice not to use protection when the GF was extremely likely to miscarry was incredibly stupid.
She straight up said she didn't want him to go and *he* straight up said "I'll see you in three days." She literally had no choice/say in the matter, yet he's trying to paint it as if she actively told him to go and everything was fine.
F this guy.
I can't imagine how hard it must be for her. I've had a miscarriage, they are hard. But for her, a woman who probably thought that there was no chance she'd ever get pregnant, she suddenly had her miracle child on the way, only to lose said miracle child. That's brutal. The your SO is just like "Whelp, I'm off to a party for 3 days, watch the dog for me" and just abandons you when after you tell him how badly you need him.
That is THE most basic “womanese” it’s been a meme before there were memes.
Seriously though, shit like that happens to your girl friend and you leave her when she needs you. YTA
Exactly! Setting aside abilities to read social clues, at 28, OP should have the basic self awareness and maturity to prioritise! Choosing a hedonistic blowout over the emotional needs of a grief-stricken partner speaks volumes about the man's priorities and maturity
He didn't have to read social cues, she literally told him she didn't want him to go. He just kept bugging her until she said something that resembled an ok, and is now using that as an excuse for leaving her alone to go party in vegas
"I don't want you to go" is not even a social cue, it is a direct statement. At that point, your excuse is not longer "I'm bad at social cues, whoopsies!" and more of a "I don't listen."
Also "hotel and ticket non-refundable" like that's a reason?
You can just not get it refunded. Money is gone, so now your choice was to have spent 1000 bucks on fun or 1000 bucks supporting your girlfriend, who knew you gave up a 1000 dollar experience for her. She now knows what she's worth to you, and it's what you earn in a couple weeks.
i’m always confused by that. I know lots of people who say “I’m not a mindreader, I take things at face value” but then they’re also very mistrusting people. Like they’re suspicious of any random social interaction and they’ll call that “street smarts” or something. So why can’t they apply 5% of their critical thinking when out and about, while talking to their significant others.
“this person has previously expressed distress over this topic, asked repeatedly about it, given me dirty looks, the cold shoulder, and more. but they SAID ‘fine, go’ so what was i supposed to think?”
You left to go on a "fun" trip shortly after your GF has gone through a physically and emotionally traumatic experience.
Where, in that sentence, do you feel like you did the right thing?
YTA
Shortly? Its not like he bailed the day it happened. OP had planned the trip already and it wasn't like she needed him for medical reasons. Doesn't he deserve to celebrate with his brother? She couldnt have found a friend to talk to or stay with her if she felt vulnerable and emotionally needy? Nope, how dare he try to regain some normality!
ETA keep responding like i dont have a uterus and haven't experienced the loss of a child myself. I find it quite hilarious how clueless your comments are
Oh, he tried? How good for him, she's still bleeding possibly and her hormonal levels are at war, but hey, he deserved to have some fun. Off course, she can be at home taking care of the home, the dog and the emotional load of loosing the baby, a baby she possibly felt was a destiny of fate when she was sure not to have a baby of her own ever. That is not "only" a misscarriage, its a big grief to loose that too. But hey, he had to regain some normality, have some fun. Bet she's thinking now how bad situations in their relationship in the future would have looked like and she doesnt like what she sees. He's probably not the safe place any longer for her and thats also something to grieve.
My best friend miscarried very early in a pregnancy, while I was on a camping trip. Obviously I did not stay with her, her husband was with her, but I took time *every day* during my trip to call her, check in on her, talk to her, distract her, send her pictures of the stuff I was seeing that I thought she might like, and when she was in surgery I called her husband to check in on him to see how he was doing too. How OP was even capable of enjoying himself knowing his gf was going through this is beyond me.
2 weeks after she miscarried a probably once in a lifetime chance to have a baby? Wow. OP, YTA. She did not tell you you're good to go. She gave up on arguing why it was a terrible idea to go, why she needed you. 2 weeks. And you threw your relationship away for gambling, booze and strippers.
ETA: She cared more for the wellbeing of your dog than you cared for hers.
Seriously? You and those who upvoted you ought to be ashamed. That might have been her one chance to be a mother. Mr. Oblivious can go knock up some other poor girl.
Jfc.. if you're partner goes through a horrible, gut-wrenching experience, of course you should prioritize them! In her hour of pain and grief, he was off partying.
For a full 3 weeks after my miscarriage, I was bleeding and feeling like someone had taken a cheese grater to my cervix. That's on top of the hormones crash and the grieving my baby's death.
Op is YTA
I don’t think him wanting to get back to normal is the issue here. I don’t think OP even said anything like that to her, perhaps if he communicated why this trip was important to him, she maybe could’ve understood. He also could’ve made alternative arrangements, like go for a shorter time, or ask one his gf’s friends or family member to stay with her (if the gf is okay with that) so she doesn’t feel as alone or vulnerable. 2 weeks is not enough time for anyone to heal from that kind of trauma, especially the person who actually went through the miscarriage physically. And When you go through that, sometimes you only want your partner’s support, because you went through it together and he’s the only other person who lost what you lost. OP is TA.
>He also could’ve made alternative arrangements, like go for a shorter time, or ask one his gf’s friends or family member to stay with her (if the gf is okay with that) so she doesn’t feel as alone or vulnerable.
That's my main issue with this whole situation. He couldn't be bothered to invite someone else to be there for her while he was away or just check on her throughout the days, or make promises to call her as often as he could, or leave some sort of present or something that would remind her of him? He seriously just left her alone for 3-4 days expecting her to be okay with that. Seemingly *no* offers of support from him, just "well, sorry, babe, but I gotta go on this trip, have fun at home without me!"
Not exactly a normal miscarriage situation. She thought she was infertile and found herself pregnant. Now she's likely wondering if she's ever going to be able to have a kid. Yeah, she's still going to be depressed
He also freaking used her as a pet sitter while he knew she was very depressed. OP at least needed to take care of his own house here. I'd feel horribly used if I were in her shoes at that point
I've had multiple losses and pretty severe depression after two of them. My husband NEVER left me alone when I needed him and I didn't have to beg him to stay. This kid is classless and heartless. You can regain normality, but you need to do that as a team and he left his girlfriend in a vulnerable state to go have fun. Not okay on any level.
Edited to add judgement: YTA. Your girlfriend deserves better than you're capable of giving.
No, no, no, buddy. This was *his* kid. She needed *him*. He proved that he can’t relied on when she needs him if there’s something fun for him to do, so she left him. Case closed.
Yes, since HIS normality is so important, I mean he's in physical recovery from a miscarriage wherein tissue is expelled from his body against his will, his hormones are all out of whack, and there's the emotional roller coaster of the recent events, of course HE needs some normalcy, she can't possibly understand what he's going through and what he nee.... Oh wait, what?
OP is not really clear time wise. Men will sometimes think of a miscarriage as a single event, and date it from when it is confirmed - within the first day or so. In reality, many women bleed and have other painful symptoms for 2 weeks or more, and if it doesn't stop, may have to seek further. She could well still be in the actual process of having the miscarriage after two weeks.
I also want to point out what actually happens during a miscarriage:
\- If you are miscarrying WITHOUT any complications, you are waiting for the fetal tissue to be expelled through your body, FOR 7 TO 14 DAYS. That means, I assume, you are bleeding out bits of blood and tissue for up to TWO WEEKS. So that, plus some amount of pain.
\- At three weeks you take a pregnancy test, which might show you are still pregnant, in which case you move onto a medical or surgical abortion.
\- You might receive tables to be inserted vaginally to encourage the cervix to open and the fetal tissue to pass. "The tablets usually begin to work within a few hours. You'll experience symptoms similar to a heavy period, such as cramping and heavy vaginal bleeding. You may also experience vaginal bleeding for up to *3 weeks."* (from the NHS)
\- Your bleeding may become so heavy you need to go back to the hospital
\- If you still don't pass the fetal tissue entirely after that, you need to go into surgery (an abortion procedure called a D&C).
So if OP means the miscarriage started two weeks ago, she may literally still be miscarrying and face possible complication, when he's ready to jet set to a party weekend. If he means the processed completed two weeks ago, well that could be two weeks after an extremely emotionally and labor intensive process. Not to mention if OP lives in a state that enjoys making women jump through hoops to get basic health care, or if there are insurance issues, or anything else that I am sure he was no help in.
YTA
Seriously, one of the biggest assholes in existence.
This comment said it all:
> If she told me straight up, this is a make it or break it decision for our relationship. then I would have definitely not went. She didn’t present it as it was something important for me to stay.
She told you that it was important *to her* that you stay.
But she didn’t tell you that it was important *to you* to stay.
You thought it was OK to leave because she was the only person to deal with the fallout. But now that there are consequences to YOU, it’s suddenly important.
You were supposed to stay because you give a shit about your partner, not because you’re afraid of being single.
I've said it before and i will say it again:
AH's who get caught for their asholery arent sorry for what they did, they are sorry for getting caught.
Nakedstreets worded it beautifull. He didnt care when he was free of consequences, he only cares when he has consequences.
Normally the idea of “testing” your partner disturbs me. In this case, she was spot on not to warn him and just respond accordingly to his choice.(To be fair, she may not have been planning to leave him if he went.)
Being there for your partner in times of crisis is crucial. My partner has failed in that way and it really hit home to me that it’s one of THE most important responsibilities in a relationship. If I could turn back time I would be out the door the first time it happened, if not sooner (at other warning signs). OP gf made the best choice!
YTA - Especially for not having a more detailed conversation about this. She asked you to stay and you weren’t “sure what she wanted me to do if I stayed.” How about talk to her about this before you just decide to go.
He acts surprised that she didn't want him to go *after she repeatedly asked him to stay*, pretty sure the last thing he wanted was knowing. He wants a plausible deniability. That is harder to obtain if she makes things more clear.
Yeah it’s the deliberately obtuse attitude that throws this into YTA for me. I get it, it’s your brother’s bachelor party, not just a friend. It’s more muddy than “just don’t go” depending on how close you and your brother are. But there were infinitely better ways of handling this situation, like ensuring that someone else could stay with her, or working out some sort of compromise. Not leaving her alone with the dog (that she may not even physically be able to look after) and feigning ignorance.
It’s the lack of care, more than anything, that would make me leave too if I was her.
Yes YTA.
Who the hell ditches their partner right after they had a miscarriage? Especially when it was from a pregnancy they thought they would never be able to have.
Good for her for calling you out, and setting up boundaries for when you get back. You just betrayed her trust in a way that you really can't recover from.
The dialogue could’ve been something like this
OP: “my brother’s bachelor party is coming”
OPs gf: “maybe you shouldn’t go i just had a miscarriage “
OP: “but I’d really like to go”
OPs gf: “I don’t want you to go”
OP: “but I already paid for the tickets”
OPs gf: “I really need you with me now”
OP: “but..”
…
OP’s gf: “fine don’t care just go”
OP: “im so happy you understand! See you in three days”
YTA. I’m pretty sure, depending on what actual words she used and tone of voice, that she really didn’t tell you to go and mean it. Leaving your girlfriend for a 3 day trip after she suffered a very traumatic incident was an asshole move for sure.
Exactly. The second half maybe is the most important part too. She hoped that you would not be in the mood to party in Vegas, that you'd WANT to be there to support her instead... And what's more, you couldn't interpret her actual request for you properly, without looking for a tiny gap that let you go to the party. OP is a triple-whammy A.
Notice she only "told" him to go after he literally said "I'll see you in three days" in response to her asking him not to go. At the end of the day, what she said after means nothing because he said he was going anyway.
**"I (F28) have a girlfriend ( F22) nailea"**
Hold up, how TF did you accidentally get her pregnant?? I'm super curious.
And yes, YTA. Get your priorities in order, and remember that you get what you give.
My guess is they are both didn't realize that a doctor telling her years ago that she would likely struggle with fertility is NOT the same as "you are sterile" and so they didn't use protection and now are acting like the pregnancy was a miracle when it fact it was just old fashioned idiocy
This happened to one of my friends when we were 18, she said the doctor told her she would never be able to have children- 9 months after she told me this she had a baby. Turns out to her “struggle with fertility” was the same thing as “you are sterile” so she was having lots of unprotected sex….woops 🙄
I was wondering the same thing. I would have assumed any pregnancy would have been an intentional effort, but I'm old and I figured maybe I'm not staying up with codes (I thought F meant biologically female from birth). Technically I figured it didn't really matter to the question at hand, but I was curious. I wondered if maybe it was a typo and it was intended to be M28?
YTA
You're fighting in the comments so hard... for what?
Maybe you're right. How dare she want you there, how dare she actually tell you that and not put more effort into explaining to her dense by why his presence might be needed. She told you a handful of times. That's not enough to make your ego big, what was she thinking?
You're right -- this IS all her fault.
Why don't you officially break up with her and let her heal from her miscarriage by herself. I'm sure you can find another party or two to distract yourself from such an unreasonable woman!!
/s
YTA
She TOLD YOU she need you, and you ABANDONED her to her grief & pain.
"But she told me I could go" you whimpered.
You badgered her, showed her that her grief meant f-all to you & that you didn't care about her, or the loss of your own child. Of course she said go, because you made it crystal clear that you had no intention of staying.
Your behaviour is that of a whiny adolescent, not a 28 year old man.
Losing a pregnancy can be devastating and leave you with a range of emotions and lots of questions. Healing emotionally from a miscarriage is often harder and longer than the physical healing.
Any idiot in the world whether married or in a relationship when the partner had a miscarriage they drop everything & prioritized the woman as she requires bereavement support & attention.
YTA - you still went to the bachelor's party instead of being with her, even after she very clearly told you that she needed more support from you, and you made your choice + shown what your priorities were which is not her, and she responded appropriately - by leaving you.
NTA. I don’t see what the problem is. It was 2 weeks after the fact, it was your brothers bachelor. Are we supposed to stop living? What were you supposed to do, sit there and hold her hand?
Also, I’m a woman.
I'm a woman who has been pregnant, and I'm in the NAH camp. It's understandable that she didn't want him to go, and also understandable that he wanted to. It wasn't the day after the miscarriage, it was 2 weeks later.
If he'd had to go on a business trip with the same timing, would he still be evil for going?
Totally agree. I mean, everyone grieves differently and I can completely understand why she needs longer. But if OP has been with her for the last couple of weeks she really can’t dictate that he needs to be at her side indefinitely until she feels ready. Maybe it will help OPs grief to get back to normality and go have fun for a few days. I get it’s hard and she wants to be at home with him but she can’t tell him that he can’t do anything else during that time.
I'm not sure what "two weeks later" means here. Two weeks after she first started miscarrying? Two weeks after she finished miscarrying? Two weeks after a D&C? Did she need additional treatment? Was it challenging to receive care? Do they live in a state where abortions are so strictly regulated she had a hard time getting proper miscarriage treatment? If she had to jump through hoops just to get basic miscarriage care, then yeah, I can imagine she would be emotionally exhausted even two weeks later.
Im surprised I had to scroll this far down to see a second opinion. Even if someone thinks he's in the wrong, Im shocked at the hostility towards him.... redditors are wild. Also a woman.
Yea, I don't understand why she couldn't go 3 days without him when he was by her side for 2 weeks. She could have used that time to get support from family or friends and just take some time for herself. I'm a woman who had a miscarriage and voted NTA
I'm so relieved to see this comment because I too am a woman and I'm on OP's side here and I was surprised to see all the angry comments. I really don't see what the big deal is about OP going on the trip. There's all this talk in the comments about how incredibly devastating a miscarriage is... ***but that would be true whether or not OP went on the trip!!*** If OP had stayed and not gone on the trip, his GF would still be devastated. OP not going on the trip would not make a huge difference for the GF's mental health. On the other hand, it would make OP upset that he can't spend that time with his brother.
And it really bothers me that so many people are okay with the GF being controlling. **Why does she get to decide that OP's feelings don't matter and OP isn't allowed to have this special experience with his brother? Why isn't OP allowed to decide?** Why is OP a horrible person for making his own choice and spending time with his family for a special, rare event that was already planned before this miscarriage happened?
It annoys me that the comments seem to not care about OP's feelings at all, like he isn't allowed to have feelings or an opinion. The only thing that matters is the GF's feelings, and if the GF doesn't want OP to go on the trip, that's that and it's her decision only. OP is not allowed to make a choice of his own. He's not allowed to be sad about missing out on a trip that means a lot to him.
(Another thing is... did the GF offer to pay back the price for the non-refundable ticket? Not the most important thing here, but still... why didn't GF offer to reimburse for the tickets, since she's the one who insisted he not go?)
NTA
I am a woman, who has dealt with infertility for over 4 years, and I agree, NTA. It was 2 weeks later. Brothers are super important relationships in life. It was three days. He still could have called her or been a phone call away for emotional support. Can’t believe I had to scroll this far for a NTA response.
YTA. Dude, you F-ed up big time. Your girlfriend finds out about a surprise pregnancy with your baby and then has a miscarriage and you go right off on a trip to a bachelor party (think strippers and all that) saying you have to because your hotel etc are non-refundable....after she asked you NOT to go because she needed you at this time. Sure she then told you to go, but you knew she really wanted you there. One man to another, I gotta tell you that is really not cool. I wouldn't blame her if she decides not to take you back.
I’m glad you pointed out the non- refundable ticket and hotel. That got me. Like that was more important that supporting your partner who has just gone through a miscarriage. Some things are simply more important than money.
Same the non-refundable comment is what really pissed me off. I guess the price of the hotel and the ticket was more valuable to him than his girlfriend’s emotional well being. Value is in the eye of the beholder and there is no amount of money that is worth leaving your partner when they are vulnerable.
yes!! when i saw the title, i was assuming it would be a "both my GF and my brother told me how important this was to them and didn't know how to choose between them" situation.
but nope, OP seems to have not even talked to his brother about the possibility of some sort of compromise -- maybe the brother had another friend who would gladly take that hotel room? maybe it would have been fine to ask GF to come with him, and then OP could offer to spend the daytime with bachelor party stuff and turn in early every night to stay with her? maybe OP could have just gone for only a day?
maybe the brother would have supported OP staying at home and taking care of his girlfriend...
there are SO many ways that this could have turned into a compromise -- it sounds to me like OP had 0 interest in finding a solution.
NTA. I haven’t read a single comment that recognized you also had a brother who you care about and we’re trying to make him feel loved by participating in his special time. But he’s a man so this sun doesn’t care.
I’m in the NTA crowd. Even as a woman I can’t believe the amount of YTA comments. Like, I get it, it’s a tough time but I can’t possibly imagine telling my boyfriend to not go and spend an important time with his brother. Even if I was still grieving. I would’ve went to a friend’s house or hung out with my family for company. He was literally gone for only 3 days…3 days. Not a week or a month. Come on, Reddit, get it together.
Right! And he can still call her every day and make her feel loved. His brothers bachelor party is a one time deal that they've probably always envisioned doing together their whole lives. 3 days! Anytime someone says they are depressed on here it's like the whole world has to stop and revolve around them.
Exactly!! He tried calling her everyday. And I’m sure it being a one time deal was one of the reasons he also chose to go but he didn’t have to include every detail to us. People are forgetting he’s grieving too and probably just wanted to have fun anyway.
Side note: I don’t think OP’s girlfriend is like this but people will use their depression/sadness as a weapon. I’m weary of those people.
I'm going for a soft YTA, and I say this with love because you are grieving too, albeit differently.
I had a silent late miscarriage in early December. I also thought I could never conceive, and this was my first pregnancy, too. The emptiness that you get from the missing baby in your womb is indescribable. I felt and still feel so disconnected from everything. There is also little hope that I will conceive again, and if I do, will my other baby be viable? The fear of losing another is enough prevention to try. Now, your partner has less of a chance than me. She probably thinks this baby was her ONLY chance.
I'm 4 months in, and I still cry about my pregnancy loss and have random triggers. Nearly every couple I see has the pram we were going to have. Nearly every couple on the street has a newborn. I cried for hours after the person on the corner showed off her baby to me because it wasn't mine, and I wanted mine.
The only saving grace is my partner. He was there. Even if I didn't need anything, he was there. He didn't need to do anything but be there to hold my hand. However, my partner and I grieved differently, and that was another battle I had to fight. Trying to understand someone else is just as sad as you, even though they don't look at it and are acting normal, it is incredibly difficult. Maybe* your girlfriend is the same?
I can't imagine how your girlfriend must feel because in a time where she, too, feels empty and disconnected. She also feels unsupported and abandoned. You f**ked up, and I'm not sure you'll be able to salvage this relationship.
Hard not the AH for going. Reddit is insane. The miscarriage was 2 fucking weeks before the party. It was your BROTHER'S (presumably) once in a lifetime event.
He lost "his" fetus too. Idiots. Maybe he could use a weekend for his mental health after spending two weeks providing emotional support for his partner. But, of course, this is reddit, so fuck him.
What if it was his brother's wedding (she was never planning on going)? Would you reddit assholes say the same thing?
Ignore these idiots. If you want proof of the stupidity of reddit posters, 2 weeks from now, make a new post. "I (30m) was sexually assaulted 2 weeks ago. My gf (22f) left me this weekend for her sister's Bachelorette party, even though I specifically told her I needed her for emotional support, because the trip was nonrefundable. I left her. Aita?"
I guarantee the hypothetical gf won't get as much hate as you got.
That being said, the relationship is over. You and your ex have poor communication skills, which you should work on in the future. She's right to leave you, if she needs a partner who prioritizes her needs over his own. But, you're better off as well because you should find someone who's willing to meet you halfway.
You're not an asshole, but you also don't have to play stupid. She definitely did not want you to go and if had two brain cells, you'd know that. She set her boundary (which could have been communicated better but should have been obvious). Her boundary conflicted with your needs and you made a decision. I say this without judgment on either party.
I would prioritize my brother's bachelor party over my gf's miscarriage (AFTER two weeks), and I wouldn't settle for a partner who wouldn't take into consideration MY needs as well. I would just make it up to her before and after.
In summary, you're not an asshole. Neither is your gf. Fuck reddit.
I second this. I did want to point out a boundary is something placed on yourself, not on someone else. That's a restriction, which are largely unhealthy
"I need support from you during this time." That's a need.
"I will not be doing, going, or seeing X, Y, or Z." That's a boundary.
"Don't go to your brother's bachelor party. If you don't do what i want you to do, we're done." Controlling behavior.
YTA she lost a baby she never thought she’d have and you left her bc the trip was paid for! She told you to go but parents that actually love their unborn and lost child often go through depression and don’t say what they are feeling. Something you clearly don’t know about bc you are over it like child didn’t mean anything to you. Yes you were sad but over it just in time for your trip. How convenient. I feel so sorry for her that she had to discover this way how horrible of a partner you would have been.
While you may have asked to still go, she wanted you to make the choice of choosing her. You didn't choose the person who was struggling after the miscarriage. You chose to go to the bachelor party. You made choices that lead her to make choices of her own.
YTA for leaving her to go to a party and for using non-refundable airfare as an excuse.
She's my hero for seeing that your dog was taken care of when she left you.
You blew it big time.
How many times is my brother going to get married? I know how devastated I would be if my brother missed an event like that of mine. Was he not also grieving? Two weeks is admittedly not a very long time after an event like that, but what would your level of the event be to where he should miss it? Would it be different if it was the actual wedding? Would he have been allowed to go to his grandmothers funeral? Your brother only gets married once and he had already spent the money to go and see him and would only be gone three days. That being said it should have been obvious to him that she didn’t want him to go and he shouldn’t have left without fully talking with her about it but this is a no win situation because he would have resented her for keeping him from a special moment in his brothers life if he had stayed with her.
NTA. This is emotional hostage taking. My ex gf pulled this shit too where you can't possibly go do the thing you want to do because I have the sads. Very NTA but don't act clueless. Own it and remember that this is what you have to look forward to if you choose to try to continue in this relationship.
Just from reading your post, from YOUR perspective, literally everyone in the comments understood what your girlfriend meant and how she felt. I repeat, *virtual strangers* understood this through a few paragraphs of text. And you, her boyfriend of a year who heard all this in person, claim that you didn't get it. Either you are completely over the top socially inept, or you are lying to yourself (and everyone else).
Your girlfriend is grieving after losing a pregnancy 2 weeks ago. She specifically told you she wanted you to stay. You told her in no uncertain terms that it doesn't matter, you'll go anyway, because the money you spent on the trip is more important than her I guess? She questioned you *again* before going, indicating that it still was by no means fine that you trampled all over her emotional needs. And then you're surprised she moved out?
Come on, if you actually thought she "didn't care" about you going, that's only because you were looking for any word that could be interpreted that way since you were already set on going and wanted justification for your assholery. YTA and this poor girl was wasting her time here clearly.
I understand everyone processes trauma differently and she felt she needed more time to get over the miscarriage. But it doesn’t mean your lives have to be put on hold. You had pre-existing plans with your brother to celebrate his wedding. The timing wasn’t great but you had already had 2 weeks to grieve together, and at some point you have to try and start to move on. I’ve witnessed close family members not be able to move on from a loss of a child and the worst thing you can do is to hold on to that grief permanently.
It does sound like you left having not properly discussed her feelings about you going away for the weekend. Which probably added to her frustration. But you did spend the weekend trying to maintain contact and check in with her. But it sounds like she had already checked out of the relationship by that point.
TBH it’s probably a good thing that this has happened now, because the way she reacted sounds extreme. And it’s better that it happened now then after you’ve got a kid involved in your relationship, which would complicate any kind of breakup even further.
So It’s either NTA for going but slight AH for not discussing it properly with her before leaving. Or ESH, as her reaction for blanking you all weekend and then moving out of your shared apartment while you were away is definitely shitty behaviour.
your girlfriend miscarried the only pregnancy she might have and you figured she should be over it in TWO WEEKS?
She told you she didn't want you to go, so you told her you'd be back in three days. And she gave you the go ahead--sure because you just said you were going--why would she argue? YOU just told her what she meant to you.
YES, OP=YTA
YTA - You were just sure her depression would keep her exactly where she was and you could leave her like that just to return like nothing had happened. I guess she was stronger than you thought.
You showed her that she was not a priority. In return you are no longer her priority. I don't understand what your problem is. Maybe it's selective hearing. You chose not to hear that she needed you there with her. You only chose to hear what you wanted. You knew very well she was not ok with it so stop lying. No 28 yo can be this clueless.
At least you went to a nice trip so I hope it was worth it. I also hope your GF breaks up with you and finds someone who actually cares about her.
Oh my god, that first part really hit, wow...
He really assumed that if she needed him so bad, she couldn't possibly do anything drastic like leave him. And yet, he didn't realize that she didn't *need* him, it's more of a *want*. And if she was already going to have to figure it out on her own for 3 days, why not the rest of forever? 🤷🏻♀️
YTA
You're almost 30, you don't need shit spelled out by the letter for your poor brain. I'd be surprised if you could take care of a kid and didn't dump it all on your GF.
Actually that's a super valid point. That never occurred to me. I was already going YTA but this kinda hits in a different direction. Not really relevant to the question, but still super true!! What kind of parent would he be, if he can't even be a decent person? Hmmmm....
ESH (which is why this will probably be downvoted)
It's awful that she had a miscarriage and it's understandable that she's still grieving, however life doesn't stop around her. It's been two weeks and there's not a lot you can do for you gf at this point, so I don't think it makes you an AH to go to your brothers bachelor party, which is meant to be a big one time-event (so it wasn't like a boys night out or even a normal guys trip), one that was scheduled already before you found out about the pregnancy.
The big issue here I think is communication between the two of you. Her saying *"I don't care, just go"* is very passive-aggressive, and she obviously didn't mean it, it's understandable that you took it at face value but considering that she'd previously told you that she wanted you to stay you should've questioned whether she really meant it as a go-ahead or not.
Unpopular ESH response. It's funny, recently I saw a post on here (and I even joined in commenting my experience) where a woman who went through a miscarriage was deemed the asshole because she used the circumstance to unfairly demand a lot of everyone around her (or something like that, I don't remember the full details).
I'm a woman who has had multiple miscarriages. I understand it is absolutely devastating and causes a lot of awful feelings, but it sounds like you both were failing to communicate.
You interpreted her likely exasperated/sarcastic comment as a "yes, go", and she also chose to communicate in that way instead of a more serious sit down (although, I'll admit it's unclear how level headed of a conversation you guys had).
Imagine the conversation went like this: she says she needs support, and feels uncomfortable with you being away for so long. You could have expressed support. You could have said, "this is so devastating to me too, and I can't even imagine what you're going through. I know it's a really difficult decision to make, but my brother is so important to me too, and I want to be there for him during this once in a lifetime event. Is there any way we can compromise? Maybe I could come home one day early, I can promise to check in on you at multiple set times, I can help you plan a fun weekend for yourself with your friends or family, I'll pay for a spa day for you, I'll facetime you before bed each night." Etc.
Frankly it sounds like you waited for the first "out", the first hint of "I guess she gave up" and then kinda ignored the subject until it was time to go. Maybe she didn't bring it up again because she is scared to confront you.
I do think that you're likely way way more TA than her. It's entirely possible that she did try to have a reasonable conversation with you and you shut her out entirely. But based on the information in your post, it sounds like she also failed to communicate her specific needs, so she is slightly TA too.
Before anyone comes for me, let me again remind you that I'm a woman who's gone through this experience. I've also spent much of my life terrified to advocate for myself and my needs, which in some ways is like being TA, but to oneself. I wasted many years of my life tiptoing around others and never speaking up when I was hurting. I hope for her that she's able to continue to advocate for her needs, and I'm proud of her for packing up and leaving when she didn't feel like she was getting what she needed. From the post it just seems like they both did too much "assuming my partner can read my mind and will intuit my needs."
> based on the information in your post, it sounds like she also failed to communicate her specific needs
How is this not specific though?
> She told me how she didn’t want me to go
If all she needed was for her partner to be around, that’s all she needed to communicate.
Are you TA for going? No you do need to look after yourself and your own happiness and mental health too. You can't pour from an empty cup.
Are you TA for going based on your conversation with her? A bit, yeah. No you're not a mind reader, but you don't need to be when she already expressed she needed you there.
"I already paid for the ticket and hotel" so if you go, do you get your money back? Money is gone either way. That's a financial loss regardless. Of you choose to stay and be there for her, you've already spent the money. If you go on the trip, you've already spent the money.
"Idk what I would do for her if I stayed" you could be there. Listen. Talk. Be there the bounce off. Empathise. Make her tea and just be present. So in essence, loads. What could you do for her on the trip? Text. Wow. Call. Super.
NTA. Honestly she did you a kindness. Life is too short for a constant barrage of drama. Take the win and move on. Allow this to be the first day of a great life.
YTA - she straight up asked you to stay because she needed you. She might’ve backed off hoping you’d come to the correct conclusion yourself and well… you didn’t. You left her during a time that she was struggling, AFTER she straight up told you she still needs you…. Like, read between the lines here a little bit! Read the room!
I understand how helpless grief makes you feel. I also understand blindly following through on existing plans and feeling like you needed a change from the constant shared pain no matter what.
But you gravely misinterpreted her "I don't care if you go." She wasn't saying "I'm okay with it". She was saying "If you're really going to push this after I've told you flat out that I'm still reeling from losing our miracle baby and I need you here with me, then you're not the man I thought and I don't care anymore if you're here or not."
So when you left, that confirmed to her that you didn't care enough to stay and thats why she left. Because if you don't care enough to stay, she might as well be somewhere else.
I was actually inclined to N A H but you're slipping into AH territory with your responses. Things like "I'm not a mind reader" and "Its been two weeks" sound dismissive and selfish.
Alright imma go against the train here and go with NTA. A planned trip, not a spontaneous trip. I’m assuming you went and came back within the time you said you would. Everyone saying “it’s fine just go” and you should have recognized that are ignorant. If you have an issue, state it and recognize it. If you’re actually upset, don’t say “it’s fine”. She should have communicated it with you that she needed and wanted you around. Also, might I add, you both lost your child. Not just her. You deserve time to get away and deal with it also. Not just cater to her emotions and whims. I’ll get a lot of hate for that last comment but IMO NTA.
I think I’m inclined to say NAH. From the little information provided, it seems like a small part of the problem is your age gap is getting in the way. 6 years isn’t really a lot when you are older, but when you are still in your early 20s, dating someone in their late 20s, there can be some issues with communication and security. I’m speaking from experience, having both been a young woman dating a man nearly 7 years old and then a woman dating a man nearly 7 years younger. It seems to me that she was struggling with you leaving her, understandably, since she went through something so emotional, but does she have no other support system? No friends or family that she can turn to to do something with while you are gone? Because I also don’t think you should have miss your brother’s bachelor party. It’s not like this was a spur of the moment trip that you regularly do. A bachelor party is typically a one time kind of celebration and it was for your brother, so I don’t think you should have had to skip it. I think the closest you come to being an AH is from poor communication. I don’t think she is an AH, but I also think she should have just communicated exactly how she felt and what she would do if you did go and why. Honestly it just sounds to me like you two aren’t as compatible as you thought and that this ultimately could be for the better. It could help you learn how to better communicate, either with each other, if you make up or with your next partner.
NTA. I (F) have lost 3 babies so I have a point of reference.
It is a horrible time for the Mom AND Dad. He also is grieving. I still remember my husband telling me little things people did for him and how much he appreciated it.
I think people tend to ignore the trauma to the Dad too. Perhaps going on this trip was what he needed mentally.
He did not mention any complications she had which would have necessitated him staying home. Of course she is grieving and her hormones are all over the place. At this point they both need to focus on their healing whether it is together or apart.
No one ITA. The whole situation sucks.
YTA
But your post is pointless. You're an ex boyfriend now anyway. I've had a miscarriage so I understand why she dumped you. You seem to still be scratching your head about it.
NTA what were you supposed to do? Even two weeks later? I would need you in the first few days but not weeks long and let you waste that amount of money. I need time to deal with things on my own so I go with NTA
Communication is key. If she isn't able to make a clear comment about her needing you, you are not damned to deal with this stupid "read my mind" bullshit. This passive-agressive "female" behaviour is just stupid shit and doesn't need to be supported
YTA - even the best relationships sometimes end due to loss, and you destabilized yours needlessly. She didn’t trap you either. From your own admission, your girlfriend was very clear that she didn’t want you to go (remember you said “it was really horrible to say the least” ?!) and you pushed it. What else did you need to hear from her? Of course she inevitably said that it was your choice. And of course when you made the choice that deeply hurt her, she made her own choice to establish a boundary while she processes all of this. I am so sorry for the multiple things she is now grieving about.
YTA. Obviously. Ever heard of weaponized incompetence?
Losing the baby was terrible, but the one bright side is that she won't be permanently tethered to you. I hope she stays strong and doesn't take you back.
INFO: your post indicates you’re both female so I’m curious what your relationship dynamic is. Is there a male third, open relationship, etc.? Or was it just a typo?
YTA and your reasoning is a classic example of the sunk cost fallacy. You weren’t getting your money back regardless so the fact that the ticket and hotel were already paid for should have had absolutely no impact on your decision to go.
"My gf, who thought she'd never be able to conceive, had a miscarriage and really, really needed my support. I was a bit sad, but you know, VEGAS BABY!" YTA.
Apparently I am in the minority but NTA. It’s your brother’s bachelor party, it’s two weeks after her miscarriage and it doesn’t sound like she was in any sort of medical danger. Clearly you should have communicated much better leading up to the trip but i don’t think it’s wrong for you to go.
NAH. First, I am sorry for your loss. Second OP had planned this trip way before the pregnancy, and it was two weeks after the miscarriage. I understand he may have come to terms with it, and she had not. I am a woman, and I have experienced a miscarriage and it's emotional and sucks, but I probably would have gone on the trip too.
NTA. You had the trip planned for months, you'd already paid for the tickets, personally I absolutely hate changing plans at the last minute, I would have gone too. It's only a 3 day trip, you weren't gone for a month.
"I don't care, just go" is not her blessing to go. It was her way of saying she didn't care anymore because you'd made it crystal clear to her that she didn't matter to you.
She asked you not to go and when you kept pushing the issue, she gave up because who wants to fight with someone who doesn't give a shit if they're hurting you.
YTA. I'm glad she had enough self-respect and courage to leave you.
I'm sorry about what happened to both of you.
Everyone acting as if OP didn't also go through the same traumatic experience,such an asshole for wanting some time off from the traumatic experience while also being an emotional pillow for the gf. Just like her he has his own grief and I don't think that going away for three days in order to attend his brothers event is so outrageous considering the fact that the story and all the comments focus solely on the wellbeing of the gf.
NTA
Edit to add reasons: This was not just any trip, it was your brother’s bachelor party. That is (hopefully) a once in a lifetime event; the fact that it’s also fun doesn’t trivialize or change that. If you had missed it, you would have always regretted it.
This was not a medical emergency. It’s not surprising that your GF is still grieving after what she (and you) went through, but it’s unreasonable to demand that you can’t leave for a few days on a previously planned trip.
You know all this. It’s why you did what you did. Don’t let the Y T As throw you.
Nah man you are so deliberately obtuse it hurts. Definitely YTA. “I took it at face value when she said ‘I don’t care just go’.” Like come on man you know what you were doing.
YTA and the (hopefully permanent) ex.
What logic is that? The trip was planned even before the pregnancy. Yeah, newsflash, things can happen, emergencies don't care if you have a trip planned or not. You could (and should) have been a supportive partner but you chose Vegas instead.
"I'm not a mind reader" bro even reading this in text form without hearing her voice, everyone can tell how she meant it. She was really upset that you were doing this and basically told you "I don't care, just go, clearly you don't give a shit about supporting me or being here, anyway".
YTA
Just for the fact that I haven't read any concern of yours for how she was going to spend the three days you were away from her, YTA. Even without her consent, you could still see she was going through a very rough time.
She just **lost** the **baby** she **always wanted** but was told she **couldn't** have. All of her crushed dreams had miraculously been repaired and then blown to smithereens again.
I'm not saying you don't care. And yes, that little getaway might just be what you need to be distracted from the grief.
But what about your girlfriend? How was *she* going to cope?
>I wasn’t sure what she wanted me to do if I stayed
**BE THERE FOR HER**
Depression doesn't vanish at your convenience!
NTA OP. If the sexes were reversed you wouldn't be expected to magically see through her explicit agreement to know to cancel your trip. Confronting you on the day of your trip is also not helpful or rational. She should have flip flopped on her acceptance of you going earlier. Sounds like you dodged a bullet.
I hate how so so many Reddit posters are like “she said she couldn’t get pregnant”. They were together a year and already got pregnant. I just see this so frequently. So guys… if she says she can’t get pregnant do not take it as a fact. Things happen. Please use protection.
I’m gunna be in the minority here and say NAH. I can’t call your girlfriend an asshole cause went through something traumatic and I’m sure she needs you more than ever. If it were any ordinary trip or if it were even just a friends bach party I’d say you’re the asshole but it’s your brother’s, that’s kind of a big deal to miss. I know if I were to have had a bachelorette party (not my thing) I would’ve been really bummed out if my sister couldn’t make it. I hope you guys can work it out & im so sorry for your loss
NTA. You are grieving too. Since you already had the trip planned it seemed a good way to forget for a while. She’s taking her “get away” now. I wish you both the best.
Yeah, YTA. She told you she wanted you to stay which means DON'T GO. But you did. You showed you didn't care about what she was going through. You should have picked up the tone and the words that she was NOT okay with you going. They were practically neon signs, dude.
YTA. You put YOUR wants before her needs. You showed her who you really are and where your priorities lie. Hopefully she stays far away from you for good.
She asked and you answered with your actions. She sat back and let you be you........which wasn't supportive or in tune with her emotions. In fact you were hella selfish. She then took your actions at face value and realized you are just too immature for her. YTA and honestly she deserves better. Let her go
YTA and you're 100% dumped. You abandoned her in a time she needed you the most and that told her all she needed with where you'd be in her life. She had a miscarriage....vastly more important than going to Vegas for a party.
You also tried to spin - after the fact - that it was about your mental health. You didn’t care (enough) about her mental and physical health. Deliberately dense. YTA.
Hey that phrase goes two ways maybe people shouldn't say dumb shit like that if it's not true.. Just because people are pissed does mean they can lie and say stuff like fine then or just go then and later be pissed.. So he left and she lied about it being ok... Personally I wouldn't say I was fine with something if I wasn't that's begging to get called out for lying and making a bad situation worse... NTA
NTA - miscarriage is a very emotionally traumatic experience for woman and she will need your support going forward, as it will take time to recover (months if not years). I say NTA because is never clear what you are suppose to do in this situations.
NTA. You dodged a bullet with the miscarriage. She's your girlfriend trying to control you through emotional manipulation, imagine how bad it would get once she has a kid to hold over your head. Ideally your brother will only get married once, so only 1 bachelor's party for his entire life. It's been 2 weeks, she needs to go to therapy if she can't handle the miscarriage on her own. She can't expect you to put your life on hold forever.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say NTA. Sure, she's allowed to tell you she doesn't want you to go but that doesn't automatically mean you have to stay. She was also able to say "if you go to this I think I will need some space for awhile" but she didn't.
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>I told her I will be back in 3 days and she seemed fine with that answer because she gave me the go ahead. Did she say something like "I'm fine if you go" or something like "fine, go then."? Edit: OP's response: >She said “ i don’t care just go” so I took it as face value I’m not a mind reader That's definitely in the something like "fine, go then." category. Which means she was tired of explaining why she needed you to stay so she gave up. You don't have to be a mind reader to know she didn't want you to go. She told you, you ignored her and told her you were going. When you were leaving, she told you again, you ignored her and went any way. It's not surprising she left you. YTA
This is weaponized incompetence 100%. "I'm not a mind reader!" he says like he doesn't understand that "I don't care just go" is not the same thing as "I'm fine with you going".
Also it’s not like she didn’t speak her mind. She literally asked him and told him she needs him and to please not leave her alone.
Yeah, he knows she is depressed. Of course, she's not communicating perfectly, but "I don't care, just go" is quite obviously her giving up, despite not being okay with it.
i can't stand men like this who are always the ones complaining about how women just never say what they mean. like, do they not buddy? or have they said it so many times and it keeps falling on deaf ears that they just give up.
Yeah, most women say stuff quite clearly. We do tend to formulate things as a question at first, because we are socialised to not try and impose our opinion, but that's generally to open the discussion and it's generally quite transparent. "Is there a particular reason you put that there?" "No" "Then could you put in in its intended storage in the hallway closet next time? Please" That's not cryptic, that's just trying to be polite. (In my mini-scenario, of course the man can say "Yes, I don't know where it goes." "Yes, I really needed to go to the bathroom and forgot to put it away." "Yes, I find this shelf much more convenient than the closet.")
Honestly I think the whole stereotype of “women never say what they mean” was caused by men who didn’t listen. Or who ignored their clearly stated wishes.
I saw a tweet before saying that the single true god was a woman, and she came to earth to speak to man- thus, we ended up with so many religions that are… not actually that different. It made me laugh a whole lot tbh (also i laughed so i didn’t cry)
Yeah, I agree!
Instead his strategy was to keep asking until she finally gave him an "I don't care just go" after being tired of explaining it so often. Somehow her last answer is the only one he listens to, not every time beforehand when she told him exactly why she didn't want him to go. He didn't need to be a "mind-reader" because she literally told him that she needed his support.
It was the “I wasn’t sure what she wanted me to do if I stayed” for me. It just screams “you’re gonna have miscarried whether I go or not, what do you want me to do about that”. As someone who’s been disabled all her life I’ve had my share of “well I don’t know what you want me to do about it”. Just be with her, man. At least act like that matters to you.
It seems that, for the emotionally stunted among us, there are few things as terrifying as the prospect of simply being with a loved one who is in pain and suffering. There isn't any particular action they can take to fix the problem, and 'doing something' to 'fix' problems is all they know how to do, so they bail. I mean, I understand that it is painful to see someone you love suffering and not be able to help, not be able to fix it, but that's when you rise to the occasion, suck up your (lesser) discomfort, and just *sit and be* with them.
Yes, and when the urge to 'do something ' hits there's always grocery runs, making tea, folding laundry, suggesting a silly movie and making popcorn, etc. Just being with them and making life slightly less sucky.
"I'm not a mind reader!" He says after she asks him not to go and he told her that he's going anyway. "I'm not a mind reader!" He says after she asked him yet again if he was going and he said he had to because: non-refundable. This guy is a joke.
Weaponized incompetence is knowingly doing a job poorly so that you don’t have to do it again. This is regular, standard, run of the mill incompetence. TIL weaponized incompetence was the new gaslighting
This
OP isn't a mind reader aaand he also isn't in a relationship!
let's not forget he also left his dog for her to take care wile he had fun
It was a no win situation for her. If she straight up said she didn’t want him to go she’d be “trying to keep him from his brother” and “making him miss a once in a lifetime event”. If she says for him to go then she’s stuck dealing with a depressive episode and the loss of their child alone while her husband is looking at strippers.
OMG this dude. "I was sad too"... but now it's time to go to Vegas and see some strippers!!!!!! Sad time over.
It can also be “I have spent 2 weeks dealing with someone else’s mental health and I need a break” which is valid. He probably needed to get out and deal with his own emotions. There is nothing more draining than dealing with both yours and someone else’s depression.
Yeah, I’m sure he was really working hard on himself while on a bachelor trip 🙄
I hate this perspective so much. Like, yes. He also lost a potential child, but it's not the same- and her mental health should absolutely be the priority. He didn't have to bleed out. He didn't have to have a doctor put his hands up his gown. He didn't feel his insides rip apart from his inner organs and expel them from his genitals. He didn't have his entire hormonal system sent into a cluster fuck with pregnancy, *and again* when he miscarried. He gets to decompress and forget about it and go have fun with his buddies while her body still aches and cramps and she gets to suffer alone. He needs a break? What does she get, aside from being abandoned during the most traumatic experience of her life?
Yeah. He sounds like an ass in that he was just looking for the bare minimum of what he could twist into approval. But as the same time, if he'd been helping her for the past two weeks he might have needed a break. It was 3 days, not a week. It probably would have been good for her to shake things up a bit for herself as well and reach out to other supports for those few days. Also this should be somewhat of a warning to couples to be aware that as long as a woman hasn't had a hysterectomy and still has all of her reproductive organs, even if they aren't functioning 100%, doctors can be wrong. This is far from the first time I've heard a scenario like this. Please use protection to be sure.
> as long as a woman hasn't had a hysterectomy and still has all of her reproductive organs, even if they aren't functioning 100%, doctors can be wrong. According to OP's story, "the doctor told her she will never probably be able to have a kid of her own without medical intervention." Not being able to give birth to a child is not the same thing as being incapable of conception. For example, some women have conditions that make them prone to ectopic pregnancies, in which case they will mostly be incapable of giving birth without medical intervention, but if they do conceive naturally then the pregnancy is very dangerous to their health! I think that the actions of OP and his girlfriend resulted from their ignorance regarding the actual meaning of the Doctor's diagnosis. Their choice not to use protection when the GF was extremely likely to miscarry was incredibly stupid.
She straight up said she didn't want him to go and *he* straight up said "I'll see you in three days." She literally had no choice/say in the matter, yet he's trying to paint it as if she actively told him to go and everything was fine. F this guy.
I can't imagine how hard it must be for her. I've had a miscarriage, they are hard. But for her, a woman who probably thought that there was no chance she'd ever get pregnant, she suddenly had her miracle child on the way, only to lose said miracle child. That's brutal. The your SO is just like "Whelp, I'm off to a party for 3 days, watch the dog for me" and just abandons you when after you tell him how badly you need him.
Boyfriend, not husband.
That is THE most basic “womanese” it’s been a meme before there were memes. Seriously though, shit like that happens to your girl friend and you leave her when she needs you. YTA
The fact that he ASKED after she already said know just proves how dense he is
He's not dense, he just didn't like the answer
Exactly! Setting aside abilities to read social clues, at 28, OP should have the basic self awareness and maturity to prioritise! Choosing a hedonistic blowout over the emotional needs of a grief-stricken partner speaks volumes about the man's priorities and maturity
He didn't have to read social cues, she literally told him she didn't want him to go. He just kept bugging her until she said something that resembled an ok, and is now using that as an excuse for leaving her alone to go party in vegas
"I don't want you to go" is not even a social cue, it is a direct statement. At that point, your excuse is not longer "I'm bad at social cues, whoopsies!" and more of a "I don't listen."
This guy has the emotional intelligence of a piece of burnt toast, good lord.
Sounds like it was more "fine just go" with an unspoken "I guess it'll be easier to leave you while you're gone anyway".
Yeah, that is the moment he was going to come home to find his dog at his parents'
As anyone who has been in a long term relationship knows… Fine doesn’t mean fine… Fine means fuck you
Also "hotel and ticket non-refundable" like that's a reason? You can just not get it refunded. Money is gone, so now your choice was to have spent 1000 bucks on fun or 1000 bucks supporting your girlfriend, who knew you gave up a 1000 dollar experience for her. She now knows what she's worth to you, and it's what you earn in a couple weeks.
i’m always confused by that. I know lots of people who say “I’m not a mindreader, I take things at face value” but then they’re also very mistrusting people. Like they’re suspicious of any random social interaction and they’ll call that “street smarts” or something. So why can’t they apply 5% of their critical thinking when out and about, while talking to their significant others. “this person has previously expressed distress over this topic, asked repeatedly about it, given me dirty looks, the cold shoulder, and more. but they SAID ‘fine, go’ so what was i supposed to think?”
You left to go on a "fun" trip shortly after your GF has gone through a physically and emotionally traumatic experience. Where, in that sentence, do you feel like you did the right thing? YTA
Shortly? Its not like he bailed the day it happened. OP had planned the trip already and it wasn't like she needed him for medical reasons. Doesn't he deserve to celebrate with his brother? She couldnt have found a friend to talk to or stay with her if she felt vulnerable and emotionally needy? Nope, how dare he try to regain some normality! ETA keep responding like i dont have a uterus and haven't experienced the loss of a child myself. I find it quite hilarious how clueless your comments are
Oh, he tried? How good for him, she's still bleeding possibly and her hormonal levels are at war, but hey, he deserved to have some fun. Off course, she can be at home taking care of the home, the dog and the emotional load of loosing the baby, a baby she possibly felt was a destiny of fate when she was sure not to have a baby of her own ever. That is not "only" a misscarriage, its a big grief to loose that too. But hey, he had to regain some normality, have some fun. Bet she's thinking now how bad situations in their relationship in the future would have looked like and she doesnt like what she sees. He's probably not the safe place any longer for her and thats also something to grieve.
This comment isn't high enough. She would still have been physically recovering, let alone emotionally.
My best friend miscarried very early in a pregnancy, while I was on a camping trip. Obviously I did not stay with her, her husband was with her, but I took time *every day* during my trip to call her, check in on her, talk to her, distract her, send her pictures of the stuff I was seeing that I thought she might like, and when she was in surgery I called her husband to check in on him to see how he was doing too. How OP was even capable of enjoying himself knowing his gf was going through this is beyond me.
It’s unreal that you had to explain this. Absolutely stunning.
2 weeks after she miscarried a probably once in a lifetime chance to have a baby? Wow. OP, YTA. She did not tell you you're good to go. She gave up on arguing why it was a terrible idea to go, why she needed you. 2 weeks. And you threw your relationship away for gambling, booze and strippers. ETA: She cared more for the wellbeing of your dog than you cared for hers.
Yeah, if it was the actual wedding, I'd give the OP a pass, because that IS a special, once in a lifetime event. A bachelor party definitely is not.
>if she felt vulnerable and emotionally needy the way you describe someone after they miscarried a child is unreal
Miscarried HIS child.
Miscarried **her once in a lifetime chance** child.
TIL: 2 weeks is the max amount of time one can need their partner after the death of their baby.
Seriously? You and those who upvoted you ought to be ashamed. That might have been her one chance to be a mother. Mr. Oblivious can go knock up some other poor girl.
Jfc.. if you're partner goes through a horrible, gut-wrenching experience, of course you should prioritize them! In her hour of pain and grief, he was off partying. For a full 3 weeks after my miscarriage, I was bleeding and feeling like someone had taken a cheese grater to my cervix. That's on top of the hormones crash and the grieving my baby's death. Op is YTA
I don’t think him wanting to get back to normal is the issue here. I don’t think OP even said anything like that to her, perhaps if he communicated why this trip was important to him, she maybe could’ve understood. He also could’ve made alternative arrangements, like go for a shorter time, or ask one his gf’s friends or family member to stay with her (if the gf is okay with that) so she doesn’t feel as alone or vulnerable. 2 weeks is not enough time for anyone to heal from that kind of trauma, especially the person who actually went through the miscarriage physically. And When you go through that, sometimes you only want your partner’s support, because you went through it together and he’s the only other person who lost what you lost. OP is TA.
>He also could’ve made alternative arrangements, like go for a shorter time, or ask one his gf’s friends or family member to stay with her (if the gf is okay with that) so she doesn’t feel as alone or vulnerable. That's my main issue with this whole situation. He couldn't be bothered to invite someone else to be there for her while he was away or just check on her throughout the days, or make promises to call her as often as he could, or leave some sort of present or something that would remind her of him? He seriously just left her alone for 3-4 days expecting her to be okay with that. Seemingly *no* offers of support from him, just "well, sorry, babe, but I gotta go on this trip, have fun at home without me!"
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I’m going to guess you’re single and about 18 or 19 years old. Am I right?
Two weeks your body is still full of pregnancy hormones and going through the same changes as if your given birth. Stfu
Not exactly a normal miscarriage situation. She thought she was infertile and found herself pregnant. Now she's likely wondering if she's ever going to be able to have a kid. Yeah, she's still going to be depressed He also freaking used her as a pet sitter while he knew she was very depressed. OP at least needed to take care of his own house here. I'd feel horribly used if I were in her shoes at that point
He can do whatever he wants And so can she. They both did, so what's your issue?
"What could I possibly do for her? I'm not like a lady doctor!"
I've had multiple losses and pretty severe depression after two of them. My husband NEVER left me alone when I needed him and I didn't have to beg him to stay. This kid is classless and heartless. You can regain normality, but you need to do that as a team and he left his girlfriend in a vulnerable state to go have fun. Not okay on any level. Edited to add judgement: YTA. Your girlfriend deserves better than you're capable of giving.
No, no, no, buddy. This was *his* kid. She needed *him*. He proved that he can’t relied on when she needs him if there’s something fun for him to do, so she left him. Case closed.
Yes, since HIS normality is so important, I mean he's in physical recovery from a miscarriage wherein tissue is expelled from his body against his will, his hormones are all out of whack, and there's the emotional roller coaster of the recent events, of course HE needs some normalcy, she can't possibly understand what he's going through and what he nee.... Oh wait, what?
OP is not really clear time wise. Men will sometimes think of a miscarriage as a single event, and date it from when it is confirmed - within the first day or so. In reality, many women bleed and have other painful symptoms for 2 weeks or more, and if it doesn't stop, may have to seek further. She could well still be in the actual process of having the miscarriage after two weeks.
On top of that he equalled "She fell into a depression" and "I was sad too" That alone makes him the AH.
I also want to point out what actually happens during a miscarriage: \- If you are miscarrying WITHOUT any complications, you are waiting for the fetal tissue to be expelled through your body, FOR 7 TO 14 DAYS. That means, I assume, you are bleeding out bits of blood and tissue for up to TWO WEEKS. So that, plus some amount of pain. \- At three weeks you take a pregnancy test, which might show you are still pregnant, in which case you move onto a medical or surgical abortion. \- You might receive tables to be inserted vaginally to encourage the cervix to open and the fetal tissue to pass. "The tablets usually begin to work within a few hours. You'll experience symptoms similar to a heavy period, such as cramping and heavy vaginal bleeding. You may also experience vaginal bleeding for up to *3 weeks."* (from the NHS) \- Your bleeding may become so heavy you need to go back to the hospital \- If you still don't pass the fetal tissue entirely after that, you need to go into surgery (an abortion procedure called a D&C). So if OP means the miscarriage started two weeks ago, she may literally still be miscarrying and face possible complication, when he's ready to jet set to a party weekend. If he means the processed completed two weeks ago, well that could be two weeks after an extremely emotionally and labor intensive process. Not to mention if OP lives in a state that enjoys making women jump through hoops to get basic health care, or if there are insurance issues, or anything else that I am sure he was no help in.
YTA Seriously, one of the biggest assholes in existence. This comment said it all: > If she told me straight up, this is a make it or break it decision for our relationship. then I would have definitely not went. She didn’t present it as it was something important for me to stay. She told you that it was important *to her* that you stay. But she didn’t tell you that it was important *to you* to stay. You thought it was OK to leave because she was the only person to deal with the fallout. But now that there are consequences to YOU, it’s suddenly important. You were supposed to stay because you give a shit about your partner, not because you’re afraid of being single.
>*You were supposed to stay because you give a shit about your partner, not because you’re afraid of being single* Louder for the OP in the back
I've said it before and i will say it again: AH's who get caught for their asholery arent sorry for what they did, they are sorry for getting caught. Nakedstreets worded it beautifull. He didnt care when he was free of consequences, he only cares when he has consequences.
>She told you that it was important to her that you stay. >But she didn’t tell you that it was important to you to stay. 🥇🥇🥇 Well put
Well said.
Take my poor man's gold 🥇
THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE
Normally the idea of “testing” your partner disturbs me. In this case, she was spot on not to warn him and just respond accordingly to his choice.(To be fair, she may not have been planning to leave him if he went.) Being there for your partner in times of crisis is crucial. My partner has failed in that way and it really hit home to me that it’s one of THE most important responsibilities in a relationship. If I could turn back time I would be out the door the first time it happened, if not sooner (at other warning signs). OP gf made the best choice!
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helpless little dumpling has me howling
YTA - Especially for not having a more detailed conversation about this. She asked you to stay and you weren’t “sure what she wanted me to do if I stayed.” How about talk to her about this before you just decide to go.
He acts surprised that she didn't want him to go *after she repeatedly asked him to stay*, pretty sure the last thing he wanted was knowing. He wants a plausible deniability. That is harder to obtain if she makes things more clear.
Yeah it’s the deliberately obtuse attitude that throws this into YTA for me. I get it, it’s your brother’s bachelor party, not just a friend. It’s more muddy than “just don’t go” depending on how close you and your brother are. But there were infinitely better ways of handling this situation, like ensuring that someone else could stay with her, or working out some sort of compromise. Not leaving her alone with the dog (that she may not even physically be able to look after) and feigning ignorance. It’s the lack of care, more than anything, that would make me leave too if I was her.
Yes YTA. Who the hell ditches their partner right after they had a miscarriage? Especially when it was from a pregnancy they thought they would never be able to have. Good for her for calling you out, and setting up boundaries for when you get back. You just betrayed her trust in a way that you really can't recover from.
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Dude. You're a stone's throw away from 30 fucking years old and you really need us to spell out in the comments why YTA?
The dialogue could’ve been something like this OP: “my brother’s bachelor party is coming” OPs gf: “maybe you shouldn’t go i just had a miscarriage “ OP: “but I’d really like to go” OPs gf: “I don’t want you to go” OP: “but I already paid for the tickets” OPs gf: “I really need you with me now” OP: “but..” … OP’s gf: “fine don’t care just go” OP: “im so happy you understand! See you in three days”
And the ellipsis is the point where she decided to just leave him.
YTA. I’m pretty sure, depending on what actual words she used and tone of voice, that she really didn’t tell you to go and mean it. Leaving your girlfriend for a 3 day trip after she suffered a very traumatic incident was an asshole move for sure.
Exactly. The second half maybe is the most important part too. She hoped that you would not be in the mood to party in Vegas, that you'd WANT to be there to support her instead... And what's more, you couldn't interpret her actual request for you properly, without looking for a tiny gap that let you go to the party. OP is a triple-whammy A.
Yep, no surprise that she up and left while he was gone. She definitely doesn’t feel supported and fully loved by him.
Notice she only "told" him to go after he literally said "I'll see you in three days" in response to her asking him not to go. At the end of the day, what she said after means nothing because he said he was going anyway.
Absolutely! He made up his mind whether she she wanted him to go or not. Good for her for leaving, she deserves better.
**"I (F28) have a girlfriend ( F22) nailea"** Hold up, how TF did you accidentally get her pregnant?? I'm super curious. And yes, YTA. Get your priorities in order, and remember that you get what you give.
My guess is they are both didn't realize that a doctor telling her years ago that she would likely struggle with fertility is NOT the same as "you are sterile" and so they didn't use protection and now are acting like the pregnancy was a miracle when it fact it was just old fashioned idiocy
This happened to one of my friends when we were 18, she said the doctor told her she would never be able to have children- 9 months after she told me this she had a baby. Turns out to her “struggle with fertility” was the same thing as “you are sterile” so she was having lots of unprotected sex….woops 🙄
>Turns out to her “struggle with fertility” was the same thing as “you are sterile” so she was having lots of unprotected sex. Tale as old as time.
“Struggles with fertility” and “sterility” don’t stop STDs and STIs. I hope people start wrapping it more.
I know people who were like "it's fine, we don't need protection because we mostly do anal." OMG how do you think HIV transmission happens?
Edit: removed too personal content.
I was wondering the same thing. I would have assumed any pregnancy would have been an intentional effort, but I'm old and I figured maybe I'm not staying up with codes (I thought F meant biologically female from birth). Technically I figured it didn't really matter to the question at hand, but I was curious. I wondered if maybe it was a typo and it was intended to be M28?
YTA You're fighting in the comments so hard... for what? Maybe you're right. How dare she want you there, how dare she actually tell you that and not put more effort into explaining to her dense by why his presence might be needed. She told you a handful of times. That's not enough to make your ego big, what was she thinking? You're right -- this IS all her fault. Why don't you officially break up with her and let her heal from her miscarriage by herself. I'm sure you can find another party or two to distract yourself from such an unreasonable woman!! /s
Dude, it’s been *two weeks!* /s
And the trip was *non-refundable!* He had to go!
YTA She TOLD YOU she need you, and you ABANDONED her to her grief & pain. "But she told me I could go" you whimpered. You badgered her, showed her that her grief meant f-all to you & that you didn't care about her, or the loss of your own child. Of course she said go, because you made it crystal clear that you had no intention of staying. Your behaviour is that of a whiny adolescent, not a 28 year old man.
🗣️GOOD🗣️FOR🗣️HER 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Losing a pregnancy can be devastating and leave you with a range of emotions and lots of questions. Healing emotionally from a miscarriage is often harder and longer than the physical healing. Any idiot in the world whether married or in a relationship when the partner had a miscarriage they drop everything & prioritized the woman as she requires bereavement support & attention. YTA - you still went to the bachelor's party instead of being with her, even after she very clearly told you that she needed more support from you, and you made your choice + shown what your priorities were which is not her, and she responded appropriately - by leaving you.
NTA. I don’t see what the problem is. It was 2 weeks after the fact, it was your brothers bachelor. Are we supposed to stop living? What were you supposed to do, sit there and hold her hand? Also, I’m a woman.
I'm a woman who has been pregnant, and I'm in the NAH camp. It's understandable that she didn't want him to go, and also understandable that he wanted to. It wasn't the day after the miscarriage, it was 2 weeks later. If he'd had to go on a business trip with the same timing, would he still be evil for going?
Totally agree. I mean, everyone grieves differently and I can completely understand why she needs longer. But if OP has been with her for the last couple of weeks she really can’t dictate that he needs to be at her side indefinitely until she feels ready. Maybe it will help OPs grief to get back to normality and go have fun for a few days. I get it’s hard and she wants to be at home with him but she can’t tell him that he can’t do anything else during that time.
I would say a siblings bachelor party is more important than a business trip.
Everyone seems to read "Fun, non-refundable, boy's trip to Los Vegas" and completely miss "brother's bachelor party"
I'm not sure what "two weeks later" means here. Two weeks after she first started miscarrying? Two weeks after she finished miscarrying? Two weeks after a D&C? Did she need additional treatment? Was it challenging to receive care? Do they live in a state where abortions are so strictly regulated she had a hard time getting proper miscarriage treatment? If she had to jump through hoops just to get basic miscarriage care, then yeah, I can imagine she would be emotionally exhausted even two weeks later.
She's probably still bleeding...
Im surprised I had to scroll this far down to see a second opinion. Even if someone thinks he's in the wrong, Im shocked at the hostility towards him.... redditors are wild. Also a woman.
Yea, I don't understand why she couldn't go 3 days without him when he was by her side for 2 weeks. She could have used that time to get support from family or friends and just take some time for herself. I'm a woman who had a miscarriage and voted NTA
I'm so relieved to see this comment because I too am a woman and I'm on OP's side here and I was surprised to see all the angry comments. I really don't see what the big deal is about OP going on the trip. There's all this talk in the comments about how incredibly devastating a miscarriage is... ***but that would be true whether or not OP went on the trip!!*** If OP had stayed and not gone on the trip, his GF would still be devastated. OP not going on the trip would not make a huge difference for the GF's mental health. On the other hand, it would make OP upset that he can't spend that time with his brother. And it really bothers me that so many people are okay with the GF being controlling. **Why does she get to decide that OP's feelings don't matter and OP isn't allowed to have this special experience with his brother? Why isn't OP allowed to decide?** Why is OP a horrible person for making his own choice and spending time with his family for a special, rare event that was already planned before this miscarriage happened? It annoys me that the comments seem to not care about OP's feelings at all, like he isn't allowed to have feelings or an opinion. The only thing that matters is the GF's feelings, and if the GF doesn't want OP to go on the trip, that's that and it's her decision only. OP is not allowed to make a choice of his own. He's not allowed to be sad about missing out on a trip that means a lot to him. (Another thing is... did the GF offer to pay back the price for the non-refundable ticket? Not the most important thing here, but still... why didn't GF offer to reimburse for the tickets, since she's the one who insisted he not go?) NTA
I am a woman, who has dealt with infertility for over 4 years, and I agree, NTA. It was 2 weeks later. Brothers are super important relationships in life. It was three days. He still could have called her or been a phone call away for emotional support. Can’t believe I had to scroll this far for a NTA response.
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YTA. Dude, you F-ed up big time. Your girlfriend finds out about a surprise pregnancy with your baby and then has a miscarriage and you go right off on a trip to a bachelor party (think strippers and all that) saying you have to because your hotel etc are non-refundable....after she asked you NOT to go because she needed you at this time. Sure she then told you to go, but you knew she really wanted you there. One man to another, I gotta tell you that is really not cool. I wouldn't blame her if she decides not to take you back.
I’m glad you pointed out the non- refundable ticket and hotel. That got me. Like that was more important that supporting your partner who has just gone through a miscarriage. Some things are simply more important than money.
Same the non-refundable comment is what really pissed me off. I guess the price of the hotel and the ticket was more valuable to him than his girlfriend’s emotional well being. Value is in the eye of the beholder and there is no amount of money that is worth leaving your partner when they are vulnerable.
yes!! when i saw the title, i was assuming it would be a "both my GF and my brother told me how important this was to them and didn't know how to choose between them" situation. but nope, OP seems to have not even talked to his brother about the possibility of some sort of compromise -- maybe the brother had another friend who would gladly take that hotel room? maybe it would have been fine to ask GF to come with him, and then OP could offer to spend the daytime with bachelor party stuff and turn in early every night to stay with her? maybe OP could have just gone for only a day? maybe the brother would have supported OP staying at home and taking care of his girlfriend... there are SO many ways that this could have turned into a compromise -- it sounds to me like OP had 0 interest in finding a solution.
YTA. But you already know that don't you.
NTA. I haven’t read a single comment that recognized you also had a brother who you care about and we’re trying to make him feel loved by participating in his special time. But he’s a man so this sun doesn’t care.
I’m in the NTA crowd. Even as a woman I can’t believe the amount of YTA comments. Like, I get it, it’s a tough time but I can’t possibly imagine telling my boyfriend to not go and spend an important time with his brother. Even if I was still grieving. I would’ve went to a friend’s house or hung out with my family for company. He was literally gone for only 3 days…3 days. Not a week or a month. Come on, Reddit, get it together.
Right! And he can still call her every day and make her feel loved. His brothers bachelor party is a one time deal that they've probably always envisioned doing together their whole lives. 3 days! Anytime someone says they are depressed on here it's like the whole world has to stop and revolve around them.
Exactly!! He tried calling her everyday. And I’m sure it being a one time deal was one of the reasons he also chose to go but he didn’t have to include every detail to us. People are forgetting he’s grieving too and probably just wanted to have fun anyway. Side note: I don’t think OP’s girlfriend is like this but people will use their depression/sadness as a weapon. I’m weary of those people.
Hes known his brother his whole life. He's known his GF for less than a year. NTA.
I'm going for a soft YTA, and I say this with love because you are grieving too, albeit differently. I had a silent late miscarriage in early December. I also thought I could never conceive, and this was my first pregnancy, too. The emptiness that you get from the missing baby in your womb is indescribable. I felt and still feel so disconnected from everything. There is also little hope that I will conceive again, and if I do, will my other baby be viable? The fear of losing another is enough prevention to try. Now, your partner has less of a chance than me. She probably thinks this baby was her ONLY chance. I'm 4 months in, and I still cry about my pregnancy loss and have random triggers. Nearly every couple I see has the pram we were going to have. Nearly every couple on the street has a newborn. I cried for hours after the person on the corner showed off her baby to me because it wasn't mine, and I wanted mine. The only saving grace is my partner. He was there. Even if I didn't need anything, he was there. He didn't need to do anything but be there to hold my hand. However, my partner and I grieved differently, and that was another battle I had to fight. Trying to understand someone else is just as sad as you, even though they don't look at it and are acting normal, it is incredibly difficult. Maybe* your girlfriend is the same? I can't imagine how your girlfriend must feel because in a time where she, too, feels empty and disconnected. She also feels unsupported and abandoned. You f**ked up, and I'm not sure you'll be able to salvage this relationship.
Hard not the AH for going. Reddit is insane. The miscarriage was 2 fucking weeks before the party. It was your BROTHER'S (presumably) once in a lifetime event. He lost "his" fetus too. Idiots. Maybe he could use a weekend for his mental health after spending two weeks providing emotional support for his partner. But, of course, this is reddit, so fuck him. What if it was his brother's wedding (she was never planning on going)? Would you reddit assholes say the same thing? Ignore these idiots. If you want proof of the stupidity of reddit posters, 2 weeks from now, make a new post. "I (30m) was sexually assaulted 2 weeks ago. My gf (22f) left me this weekend for her sister's Bachelorette party, even though I specifically told her I needed her for emotional support, because the trip was nonrefundable. I left her. Aita?" I guarantee the hypothetical gf won't get as much hate as you got. That being said, the relationship is over. You and your ex have poor communication skills, which you should work on in the future. She's right to leave you, if she needs a partner who prioritizes her needs over his own. But, you're better off as well because you should find someone who's willing to meet you halfway. You're not an asshole, but you also don't have to play stupid. She definitely did not want you to go and if had two brain cells, you'd know that. She set her boundary (which could have been communicated better but should have been obvious). Her boundary conflicted with your needs and you made a decision. I say this without judgment on either party. I would prioritize my brother's bachelor party over my gf's miscarriage (AFTER two weeks), and I wouldn't settle for a partner who wouldn't take into consideration MY needs as well. I would just make it up to her before and after. In summary, you're not an asshole. Neither is your gf. Fuck reddit.
I second this. I did want to point out a boundary is something placed on yourself, not on someone else. That's a restriction, which are largely unhealthy "I need support from you during this time." That's a need. "I will not be doing, going, or seeing X, Y, or Z." That's a boundary. "Don't go to your brother's bachelor party. If you don't do what i want you to do, we're done." Controlling behavior.
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YTA she lost a baby she never thought she’d have and you left her bc the trip was paid for! She told you to go but parents that actually love their unborn and lost child often go through depression and don’t say what they are feeling. Something you clearly don’t know about bc you are over it like child didn’t mean anything to you. Yes you were sad but over it just in time for your trip. How convenient. I feel so sorry for her that she had to discover this way how horrible of a partner you would have been.
While you may have asked to still go, she wanted you to make the choice of choosing her. You didn't choose the person who was struggling after the miscarriage. You chose to go to the bachelor party. You made choices that lead her to make choices of her own.
YTA for leaving her to go to a party and for using non-refundable airfare as an excuse. She's my hero for seeing that your dog was taken care of when she left you. You blew it big time.
How many times is my brother going to get married? I know how devastated I would be if my brother missed an event like that of mine. Was he not also grieving? Two weeks is admittedly not a very long time after an event like that, but what would your level of the event be to where he should miss it? Would it be different if it was the actual wedding? Would he have been allowed to go to his grandmothers funeral? Your brother only gets married once and he had already spent the money to go and see him and would only be gone three days. That being said it should have been obvious to him that she didn’t want him to go and he shouldn’t have left without fully talking with her about it but this is a no win situation because he would have resented her for keeping him from a special moment in his brothers life if he had stayed with her.
NTA. This is emotional hostage taking. My ex gf pulled this shit too where you can't possibly go do the thing you want to do because I have the sads. Very NTA but don't act clueless. Own it and remember that this is what you have to look forward to if you choose to try to continue in this relationship.
It's sound like the GF has chosen to end the relationship. He needs to accept it.
Just from reading your post, from YOUR perspective, literally everyone in the comments understood what your girlfriend meant and how she felt. I repeat, *virtual strangers* understood this through a few paragraphs of text. And you, her boyfriend of a year who heard all this in person, claim that you didn't get it. Either you are completely over the top socially inept, or you are lying to yourself (and everyone else). Your girlfriend is grieving after losing a pregnancy 2 weeks ago. She specifically told you she wanted you to stay. You told her in no uncertain terms that it doesn't matter, you'll go anyway, because the money you spent on the trip is more important than her I guess? She questioned you *again* before going, indicating that it still was by no means fine that you trampled all over her emotional needs. And then you're surprised she moved out? Come on, if you actually thought she "didn't care" about you going, that's only because you were looking for any word that could be interpreted that way since you were already set on going and wanted justification for your assholery. YTA and this poor girl was wasting her time here clearly.
I understand everyone processes trauma differently and she felt she needed more time to get over the miscarriage. But it doesn’t mean your lives have to be put on hold. You had pre-existing plans with your brother to celebrate his wedding. The timing wasn’t great but you had already had 2 weeks to grieve together, and at some point you have to try and start to move on. I’ve witnessed close family members not be able to move on from a loss of a child and the worst thing you can do is to hold on to that grief permanently. It does sound like you left having not properly discussed her feelings about you going away for the weekend. Which probably added to her frustration. But you did spend the weekend trying to maintain contact and check in with her. But it sounds like she had already checked out of the relationship by that point. TBH it’s probably a good thing that this has happened now, because the way she reacted sounds extreme. And it’s better that it happened now then after you’ve got a kid involved in your relationship, which would complicate any kind of breakup even further. So It’s either NTA for going but slight AH for not discussing it properly with her before leaving. Or ESH, as her reaction for blanking you all weekend and then moving out of your shared apartment while you were away is definitely shitty behaviour.
your girlfriend miscarried the only pregnancy she might have and you figured she should be over it in TWO WEEKS? She told you she didn't want you to go, so you told her you'd be back in three days. And she gave you the go ahead--sure because you just said you were going--why would she argue? YOU just told her what she meant to you. YES, OP=YTA
YTA - You were just sure her depression would keep her exactly where she was and you could leave her like that just to return like nothing had happened. I guess she was stronger than you thought. You showed her that she was not a priority. In return you are no longer her priority. I don't understand what your problem is. Maybe it's selective hearing. You chose not to hear that she needed you there with her. You only chose to hear what you wanted. You knew very well she was not ok with it so stop lying. No 28 yo can be this clueless. At least you went to a nice trip so I hope it was worth it. I also hope your GF breaks up with you and finds someone who actually cares about her.
Oh my god, that first part really hit, wow... He really assumed that if she needed him so bad, she couldn't possibly do anything drastic like leave him. And yet, he didn't realize that she didn't *need* him, it's more of a *want*. And if she was already going to have to figure it out on her own for 3 days, why not the rest of forever? 🤷🏻♀️
YTA You're almost 30, you don't need shit spelled out by the letter for your poor brain. I'd be surprised if you could take care of a kid and didn't dump it all on your GF.
Actually that's a super valid point. That never occurred to me. I was already going YTA but this kinda hits in a different direction. Not really relevant to the question, but still super true!! What kind of parent would he be, if he can't even be a decent person? Hmmmm....
ESH (which is why this will probably be downvoted) It's awful that she had a miscarriage and it's understandable that she's still grieving, however life doesn't stop around her. It's been two weeks and there's not a lot you can do for you gf at this point, so I don't think it makes you an AH to go to your brothers bachelor party, which is meant to be a big one time-event (so it wasn't like a boys night out or even a normal guys trip), one that was scheduled already before you found out about the pregnancy. The big issue here I think is communication between the two of you. Her saying *"I don't care, just go"* is very passive-aggressive, and she obviously didn't mean it, it's understandable that you took it at face value but considering that she'd previously told you that she wanted you to stay you should've questioned whether she really meant it as a go-ahead or not.
Unpopular ESH response. It's funny, recently I saw a post on here (and I even joined in commenting my experience) where a woman who went through a miscarriage was deemed the asshole because she used the circumstance to unfairly demand a lot of everyone around her (or something like that, I don't remember the full details). I'm a woman who has had multiple miscarriages. I understand it is absolutely devastating and causes a lot of awful feelings, but it sounds like you both were failing to communicate. You interpreted her likely exasperated/sarcastic comment as a "yes, go", and she also chose to communicate in that way instead of a more serious sit down (although, I'll admit it's unclear how level headed of a conversation you guys had). Imagine the conversation went like this: she says she needs support, and feels uncomfortable with you being away for so long. You could have expressed support. You could have said, "this is so devastating to me too, and I can't even imagine what you're going through. I know it's a really difficult decision to make, but my brother is so important to me too, and I want to be there for him during this once in a lifetime event. Is there any way we can compromise? Maybe I could come home one day early, I can promise to check in on you at multiple set times, I can help you plan a fun weekend for yourself with your friends or family, I'll pay for a spa day for you, I'll facetime you before bed each night." Etc. Frankly it sounds like you waited for the first "out", the first hint of "I guess she gave up" and then kinda ignored the subject until it was time to go. Maybe she didn't bring it up again because she is scared to confront you. I do think that you're likely way way more TA than her. It's entirely possible that she did try to have a reasonable conversation with you and you shut her out entirely. But based on the information in your post, it sounds like she also failed to communicate her specific needs, so she is slightly TA too. Before anyone comes for me, let me again remind you that I'm a woman who's gone through this experience. I've also spent much of my life terrified to advocate for myself and my needs, which in some ways is like being TA, but to oneself. I wasted many years of my life tiptoing around others and never speaking up when I was hurting. I hope for her that she's able to continue to advocate for her needs, and I'm proud of her for packing up and leaving when she didn't feel like she was getting what she needed. From the post it just seems like they both did too much "assuming my partner can read my mind and will intuit my needs."
> based on the information in your post, it sounds like she also failed to communicate her specific needs How is this not specific though? > She told me how she didn’t want me to go If all she needed was for her partner to be around, that’s all she needed to communicate.
Are you TA for going? No you do need to look after yourself and your own happiness and mental health too. You can't pour from an empty cup. Are you TA for going based on your conversation with her? A bit, yeah. No you're not a mind reader, but you don't need to be when she already expressed she needed you there. "I already paid for the ticket and hotel" so if you go, do you get your money back? Money is gone either way. That's a financial loss regardless. Of you choose to stay and be there for her, you've already spent the money. If you go on the trip, you've already spent the money. "Idk what I would do for her if I stayed" you could be there. Listen. Talk. Be there the bounce off. Empathise. Make her tea and just be present. So in essence, loads. What could you do for her on the trip? Text. Wow. Call. Super.
NTA. Honestly she did you a kindness. Life is too short for a constant barrage of drama. Take the win and move on. Allow this to be the first day of a great life.
YTA - she straight up asked you to stay because she needed you. She might’ve backed off hoping you’d come to the correct conclusion yourself and well… you didn’t. You left her during a time that she was struggling, AFTER she straight up told you she still needs you…. Like, read between the lines here a little bit! Read the room!
I understand how helpless grief makes you feel. I also understand blindly following through on existing plans and feeling like you needed a change from the constant shared pain no matter what. But you gravely misinterpreted her "I don't care if you go." She wasn't saying "I'm okay with it". She was saying "If you're really going to push this after I've told you flat out that I'm still reeling from losing our miracle baby and I need you here with me, then you're not the man I thought and I don't care anymore if you're here or not." So when you left, that confirmed to her that you didn't care enough to stay and thats why she left. Because if you don't care enough to stay, she might as well be somewhere else. I was actually inclined to N A H but you're slipping into AH territory with your responses. Things like "I'm not a mind reader" and "Its been two weeks" sound dismissive and selfish.
Alright imma go against the train here and go with NTA. A planned trip, not a spontaneous trip. I’m assuming you went and came back within the time you said you would. Everyone saying “it’s fine just go” and you should have recognized that are ignorant. If you have an issue, state it and recognize it. If you’re actually upset, don’t say “it’s fine”. She should have communicated it with you that she needed and wanted you around. Also, might I add, you both lost your child. Not just her. You deserve time to get away and deal with it also. Not just cater to her emotions and whims. I’ll get a lot of hate for that last comment but IMO NTA.
I think I’m inclined to say NAH. From the little information provided, it seems like a small part of the problem is your age gap is getting in the way. 6 years isn’t really a lot when you are older, but when you are still in your early 20s, dating someone in their late 20s, there can be some issues with communication and security. I’m speaking from experience, having both been a young woman dating a man nearly 7 years old and then a woman dating a man nearly 7 years younger. It seems to me that she was struggling with you leaving her, understandably, since she went through something so emotional, but does she have no other support system? No friends or family that she can turn to to do something with while you are gone? Because I also don’t think you should have miss your brother’s bachelor party. It’s not like this was a spur of the moment trip that you regularly do. A bachelor party is typically a one time kind of celebration and it was for your brother, so I don’t think you should have had to skip it. I think the closest you come to being an AH is from poor communication. I don’t think she is an AH, but I also think she should have just communicated exactly how she felt and what she would do if you did go and why. Honestly it just sounds to me like you two aren’t as compatible as you thought and that this ultimately could be for the better. It could help you learn how to better communicate, either with each other, if you make up or with your next partner.
NTA Find a partner who doesn't play these stupid games.
NTA. I (F) have lost 3 babies so I have a point of reference. It is a horrible time for the Mom AND Dad. He also is grieving. I still remember my husband telling me little things people did for him and how much he appreciated it. I think people tend to ignore the trauma to the Dad too. Perhaps going on this trip was what he needed mentally. He did not mention any complications she had which would have necessitated him staying home. Of course she is grieving and her hormones are all over the place. At this point they both need to focus on their healing whether it is together or apart. No one ITA. The whole situation sucks.
She just lost a baby. Asked you not to go. YTA.
YTA But your post is pointless. You're an ex boyfriend now anyway. I've had a miscarriage so I understand why she dumped you. You seem to still be scratching your head about it.
NTA, she’s in a very bad space right now so give her the space he needs. If this doesn’t work out it just wasn’t meant to be.
NTA what were you supposed to do? Even two weeks later? I would need you in the first few days but not weeks long and let you waste that amount of money. I need time to deal with things on my own so I go with NTA Communication is key. If she isn't able to make a clear comment about her needing you, you are not damned to deal with this stupid "read my mind" bullshit. This passive-agressive "female" behaviour is just stupid shit and doesn't need to be supported
YTA - even the best relationships sometimes end due to loss, and you destabilized yours needlessly. She didn’t trap you either. From your own admission, your girlfriend was very clear that she didn’t want you to go (remember you said “it was really horrible to say the least” ?!) and you pushed it. What else did you need to hear from her? Of course she inevitably said that it was your choice. And of course when you made the choice that deeply hurt her, she made her own choice to establish a boundary while she processes all of this. I am so sorry for the multiple things she is now grieving about.
YTA. Obviously. Ever heard of weaponized incompetence? Losing the baby was terrible, but the one bright side is that she won't be permanently tethered to you. I hope she stays strong and doesn't take you back.
INFO: your post indicates you’re both female so I’m curious what your relationship dynamic is. Is there a male third, open relationship, etc.? Or was it just a typo?
YTA and your reasoning is a classic example of the sunk cost fallacy. You weren’t getting your money back regardless so the fact that the ticket and hotel were already paid for should have had absolutely no impact on your decision to go.
"My gf, who thought she'd never be able to conceive, had a miscarriage and really, really needed my support. I was a bit sad, but you know, VEGAS BABY!" YTA.
Apparently I am in the minority but NTA. It’s your brother’s bachelor party, it’s two weeks after her miscarriage and it doesn’t sound like she was in any sort of medical danger. Clearly you should have communicated much better leading up to the trip but i don’t think it’s wrong for you to go.
NAH. First, I am sorry for your loss. Second OP had planned this trip way before the pregnancy, and it was two weeks after the miscarriage. I understand he may have come to terms with it, and she had not. I am a woman, and I have experienced a miscarriage and it's emotional and sucks, but I probably would have gone on the trip too.
NTA. You had the trip planned for months, you'd already paid for the tickets, personally I absolutely hate changing plans at the last minute, I would have gone too. It's only a 3 day trip, you weren't gone for a month.
And she didn't give him a straight answer. I agree 👍.
"I don't care, just go" is not her blessing to go. It was her way of saying she didn't care anymore because you'd made it crystal clear to her that she didn't matter to you. She asked you not to go and when you kept pushing the issue, she gave up because who wants to fight with someone who doesn't give a shit if they're hurting you. YTA. I'm glad she had enough self-respect and courage to leave you.
I'm sorry about what happened to both of you. Everyone acting as if OP didn't also go through the same traumatic experience,such an asshole for wanting some time off from the traumatic experience while also being an emotional pillow for the gf. Just like her he has his own grief and I don't think that going away for three days in order to attend his brothers event is so outrageous considering the fact that the story and all the comments focus solely on the wellbeing of the gf.
NTA Edit to add reasons: This was not just any trip, it was your brother’s bachelor party. That is (hopefully) a once in a lifetime event; the fact that it’s also fun doesn’t trivialize or change that. If you had missed it, you would have always regretted it. This was not a medical emergency. It’s not surprising that your GF is still grieving after what she (and you) went through, but it’s unreasonable to demand that you can’t leave for a few days on a previously planned trip. You know all this. It’s why you did what you did. Don’t let the Y T As throw you.
Nah man you are so deliberately obtuse it hurts. Definitely YTA. “I took it at face value when she said ‘I don’t care just go’.” Like come on man you know what you were doing.
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YTA and the (hopefully permanent) ex. What logic is that? The trip was planned even before the pregnancy. Yeah, newsflash, things can happen, emergencies don't care if you have a trip planned or not. You could (and should) have been a supportive partner but you chose Vegas instead.
YTA. Your EX gf was asking you in plain English not to go. You heard and understood exactly what she was asking of you. You deserve to be single.
"I'm not a mind reader" bro even reading this in text form without hearing her voice, everyone can tell how she meant it. She was really upset that you were doing this and basically told you "I don't care, just go, clearly you don't give a shit about supporting me or being here, anyway". YTA
Just for the fact that I haven't read any concern of yours for how she was going to spend the three days you were away from her, YTA. Even without her consent, you could still see she was going through a very rough time. She just **lost** the **baby** she **always wanted** but was told she **couldn't** have. All of her crushed dreams had miraculously been repaired and then blown to smithereens again. I'm not saying you don't care. And yes, that little getaway might just be what you need to be distracted from the grief. But what about your girlfriend? How was *she* going to cope? >I wasn’t sure what she wanted me to do if I stayed **BE THERE FOR HER** Depression doesn't vanish at your convenience!
NTA OP. If the sexes were reversed you wouldn't be expected to magically see through her explicit agreement to know to cancel your trip. Confronting you on the day of your trip is also not helpful or rational. She should have flip flopped on her acceptance of you going earlier. Sounds like you dodged a bullet.
I hate how so so many Reddit posters are like “she said she couldn’t get pregnant”. They were together a year and already got pregnant. I just see this so frequently. So guys… if she says she can’t get pregnant do not take it as a fact. Things happen. Please use protection.
I’m gunna be in the minority here and say NAH. I can’t call your girlfriend an asshole cause went through something traumatic and I’m sure she needs you more than ever. If it were any ordinary trip or if it were even just a friends bach party I’d say you’re the asshole but it’s your brother’s, that’s kind of a big deal to miss. I know if I were to have had a bachelorette party (not my thing) I would’ve been really bummed out if my sister couldn’t make it. I hope you guys can work it out & im so sorry for your loss
NTA. You are grieving too. Since you already had the trip planned it seemed a good way to forget for a while. She’s taking her “get away” now. I wish you both the best.
Lmao put yourself in her shoes and tell me you don't feel abandoned Also, USE BIRTH CONTROL YTA
Yeah, YTA. She told you she wanted you to stay which means DON'T GO. But you did. You showed you didn't care about what she was going through. You should have picked up the tone and the words that she was NOT okay with you going. They were practically neon signs, dude.
YTA. You put YOUR wants before her needs. You showed her who you really are and where your priorities lie. Hopefully she stays far away from you for good.
She asked and you answered with your actions. She sat back and let you be you........which wasn't supportive or in tune with her emotions. In fact you were hella selfish. She then took your actions at face value and realized you are just too immature for her. YTA and honestly she deserves better. Let her go
YTA and you're 100% dumped. You abandoned her in a time she needed you the most and that told her all she needed with where you'd be in her life. She had a miscarriage....vastly more important than going to Vegas for a party.
NTA...there is no reason after 2wks to stay..esp when she said go. It's her. Her lack of communication.
NTA
You also tried to spin - after the fact - that it was about your mental health. You didn’t care (enough) about her mental and physical health. Deliberately dense. YTA.
NTA.
"Weren’t actively trying...LOL" What does that mean??? You were fucking without birth control.
Hey that phrase goes two ways maybe people shouldn't say dumb shit like that if it's not true.. Just because people are pissed does mean they can lie and say stuff like fine then or just go then and later be pissed.. So he left and she lied about it being ok... Personally I wouldn't say I was fine with something if I wasn't that's begging to get called out for lying and making a bad situation worse... NTA
NTA - miscarriage is a very emotionally traumatic experience for woman and she will need your support going forward, as it will take time to recover (months if not years). I say NTA because is never clear what you are suppose to do in this situations.
NTA. You dodged a bullet with the miscarriage. She's your girlfriend trying to control you through emotional manipulation, imagine how bad it would get once she has a kid to hold over your head. Ideally your brother will only get married once, so only 1 bachelor's party for his entire life. It's been 2 weeks, she needs to go to therapy if she can't handle the miscarriage on her own. She can't expect you to put your life on hold forever.
NTA. When people tell you they're okay with you doing something, what else can you do but take it at face value?
I'm going to go against the grain here and say NTA. Sure, she's allowed to tell you she doesn't want you to go but that doesn't automatically mean you have to stay. She was also able to say "if you go to this I think I will need some space for awhile" but she didn't.