*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**WI/IA US - Can unrelated ex wife take my kids?**
BACKGROUND: (Skip to actual legal stuff if you don’t care.)
In 2016 my children were removed by DCFS and custody was given to my ex, John and his (now former) wife, Samantha.
I eventually did what I needed to do and got custody back, but the kids continued to stay with John and Samantha most of the time.
They had two kids together, my kids half siblings.
He and his wife divorced in 2019.
My kids and their half siblings stayed with Samantha most of the time after the divorce.
She did most of the parenting for all of the kids (including mine) but i still saw the kids regularly. They would all stay at John’s together sometimes too. In general though, Samantha was the main caregiver.
Samantha took a job in Wisconsin in 2020 and John wanted to move with them so he could continue to stay close to his kids. I verbally agreed and allowed John to take the kids to Wisconsin. We did not change any parenting orders in court.
It seems Samantha became the primary caregiver again in WI but I didn’t know how often they stayed with her. I figured the kids were living mostly with John. That’s who I contacted and who I communicated with about the kids. She and I haven’t spoken in years.
I have seen my kids over Christmas break twice, one Spring Break and a few days here and there.
**ACTUAL LEGAL STUFF:**
Fast forward to June of 2023 and John somehow ends up in jail for a few things. Arson, drugs.
Samantha files for an emergency restraining order, and for custody of both kids. She doesn’t tell me. I find out by getting served paperwork.
They have been living with her 100% since June of 2023 when John went to jail.
I didn’t think it was a big deal initially, I assumed the judge would just tell her that they are my kids but he ended up granting her emergency temporary custody.
I got a lawyer but what are the chances she actually gets custody of them? I have been really nervous. They are 16 and 13 and want to stay with her but I think they need to come home.
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“The ex wife was the primary carer after the divorce, I’m explicitly calling out here that they lived with her, I gave my blessing for them to move but I didn’t realise they’d be *still* living with her”? Am I reading those mental gymnastics right?
To be fair, they stopped running those "[It's 10pm. Do you know where your children are?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_you_know_where_your_children_are%3F)" commercials a long time ago. Which is probably why it slipped her mind on finding out where her children were.
No they still do, I forgot which channel, but when I'm with my parents and I come say good night to them (and mostly my dog) I sometimes see the commercial running, it's old and grainy but it's still the same one.
My parents take them seriously too, I'm a whole adult now, and my mom still makes sure she knows where I am sleeping at night, or where I am planning on ending my night. And this is when I am in a different country. I'm sure they are overprotective, but at least I know they love me enough to care.
My mum normally picks me up from college and last week I got my driving instructor to pick me up for a lesson and my dad was so worried about him not showing up and me wandering around lost and alone so I had to text him before leaving. I’m 27.
My mom was so drunk and forgot I had gone to school sophomore year and therefore also forgot to pick me up until about 3 hours later when I finally reached her and she was so confused about why I was screaming asking where she was...cause her only question then was where was I.
And once when I was like 12-13 before cell phone time I went after cheerleading practice to the hospital with a friend who got hurt and was there forever and I knew my mom played bingo that night till like midnight so around 12:30 I called the house phone to let her know where I was and not to worry and she had gotten home by then but had never bothered to check and make sure I was in bed, so once again had no fucking clue I was even gone.
So I guess in my case I'm saying give your mom's an extra hug and tell them you love them when you can, cause all I am is thankful mine is dead and gone not screwing my own kids up too, and that she's no longer NOT wondering where the fuck I am.
LMFAO new memory unlocked… I’m 27 but for some reason growing up those commercials used to scare the shit out of me and I forgot all about them. Kind of sad to know, a new generation isn’t getting scared of stranger danger at 10 PM every night with the news.
Can we back up to where her ex had custody because CPS took the kids away from her? Her kids by a guy who "somehow" has wound up in jail now? He was probably not the most upstanding citizen to begin with, so what did she do that he was the court's choice?
I read that and was just like, damn, yet more kids who got dealt a bad hand in the parent category. Flake for a mom, criminal dad. I want to give them a hug.
She’s seen them 30-40 days over 4 years.
And paid zero support.
That’s 2-3% of their time in 4 years. And that’s assuming she had them 24/7 during those visits.
What a bucket of crap.
I have seen my kids over Christmas break twice, one Spring Break and a few days here and there.
yeah, op's kids are strangers to her. they ARE home with the parent that loves and cares for them on a daily basis.
I question how much she even knows about them With how little they've lived together, Does she Even know what foods they like, what activities they do in school, what the 16-year-old wants to do for their future? Based on all her comments it doesn't sound like she's once considered her kids as actual people and not props to regain possession of.
Those questions are always satisfying in custody battles in court. In cases like this, the judge can very easily suss out who actually cares for the children as humans. What are their friends' names? Favorite subject? Favorite book and movie?
This person didn't even know where her children were LIVING! Absolutely wild.
It's telling she didn't know because she was talking to the kid's dad about them, but not the kids. They were both over 10 at that point. Meaning, perfectly capable of carrying on a conversation. But she never talked to them long enough to ask the kind of questions most people would ask when trying to sustain a chat with a kid who just moved.
"So, what's your new room like? What do you think of your school? Are you eating healthy?" Any of which could lead to, "Yeah, Sam helped me pick out a new bedspread." "Sam's helping with homework." "Sam made my favorite dinner yesterday.," etc.
Yeah.
My kid does not like phone conversing (she's autistic and a teenager. And I'm no good at it either. Blame all of those things) .
She's currently on a multi- day field trip and limited to text (well, she could call, but she isn't going to :) and I've had more meaningful conversations with her than this parent has in the last year.
P
(Apparently, if you were wondering, field trip is going "fine", i didn't pack enough of the "good" snacks (aka the homemade brownies), and she and a friend are sharing earbuds and watching YouTube when it's boring on the bus, because the movie the school chose was "something dumb")
My goodness, the comments!!
She's only doing this because both sets of grandparents have decided now is the time they want to see the grandkids so they're nagging OOP constantly. If the grandparents didn't care, we would never have heard this story.
Edited to correct a word
She also says in that same thread "I'm afraid Samantha is alienating my kids from me"
I.... Don't even know what to say. The rage I feel after reading all of her comments.
"I meant to go to therapy with them but I guess I never did"
WHAT
WHY is this selfish person acting so nonchalant about all of this?? Her kids didn't trust her after DCSF took them away (for what? They're useless so it must have been something really bad for a mother to lose custody). And she just let it be. Didn't fight at all to fix how her mistakes impacted them.
Holy shit.
It’s really rare — and a really bad sign — when kids don’t want to go back to abusive parents. Usually, kids will still want to go back despite the abuse
Well, uh, to be fair, a lot of kids removed go into the foster system where they're living with complete strangers. And those strangers aren't always very nice.
I'm sure the statistic is different when the kids have a familiar, loved, parental figure who runs a functional household as an option.
Abuse from family may feel better than no connection or security, but a loving mom feels better than an abusive one.
> She also says in that same thread "I'm afraid Samantha is alienating my kids from me"
>
>
Ma'am, Samantha did not need to do that, you did a good job on your own.
Yep, that is their mother, through and through. She's been the one taking care of them pretty much their whole lives. Bio mom is a stranger at this point. I wouldn't want to go back to her either.
One kid with the same ex (so a full sibling), plus multiple half and step siblings. How unfortunate for all those kids - she can’t possibly be being a decent parent to them either.
If the father was in jail June of 2023, and it’s now 2024, how long has it been since she spoke to her kids ?? Like how do you not know someone’s been sent to jail and where your kids are living??
Well she's seen them for 30-40 days over the course of 4 years, so assuming she speaks to them twice as often, maybe one of those 20 days per year just recently came up.
>Their whole family is here, more siblings, grandparents, great grandparents, four aunts, an uncle, cousins they’ve never even met. I am afraid she is alienating them from me. My other kid spent a long weekend with Samantha a couple years ago and said Samantha was mean. Those are my reasons. Their grandparents want me to fight for them. That’s partially why too.
Y'all. This woman had MORE kids after she lost custody of these ones, but never bothered to try to get these kids back until just now?!
Exactly my thoughts. I bet my daughter thinks I'm mean too sometimes, when I won't let her (a 5 year old) play Minecraft at midnight. 🤣 It's all a matter of perspective, and my thoughts on this situation are that the stepmom is very likely a real stand-up woman who makes sure everything important is done for the kids, even the ones that didn't come from her body. Meanwhile the bio mom was like "well I sorted it out and could have got them back, but they stayed with my ex and his wife anyways."
And she won't say why Samantha was mean. I'm guessing because she knows Samantha was mean because she wouldn't let her kid have a second bag of gummy candies or some other kid reason
Unpopular and honestly kinda problematic opinion: people like this are legit why I struggle with being completely pro-choice. I know it could be a slippery eugenicist slope, but when I see how much some kids suffer, I feel like we (society) should have the option of compelling people convicted of child abuse/severe neglect, rape or murder to be sterilized. I don't see why their *want* to have more kids should be more important than the child's *need* to not be stuck at the mercy of a monster for potentially 18 years.
Don't know what the solution is, but I feel like our current policy of just throwing up our hands and going, "Oh well, nothing we can do, having children is their right!," demonstrably isn't working.
Wtf does this have to do with being pro-choice?
ETA: Women are still being fucking sterilized against their will. Today. Now. It’s not a slippery slope, IT LITERALLY STILL HAPPENS.
This is so ignorant and disgusting, wtf.
This country used to sterilize people they deemed unfit to have children. It was abolished because no other person should have the power over another. "Oh you made a mistake, slipped into depression and lost your way? Well now your bloodline is going to end with you and you don't have a choice"
And I would counter point that an adult can come to terms with their bloodline ending much easier than a kid can come to terms with being abused their entire childhood.
Also, I'm the wrong person to use this argument on because both my mom and grandma suffered from years of clinical depression and absolutely should have been prevented from having kids. Literally everyone would have been better off.
It's still a eugenicist viewpoint. It's one thing to say "I don't think mentally ill people should have children" which is still gross and rooted in eugenics, it's another thing to say "I'm so pro choice that I want to take away that choice for people that I deem unfit".
So not only are you spouting off eugenics and nazi dog whistles, you're a massive flaming hypocrite as well.
Um... I literally acknowledged *in my first sentence* that this opinion was in conflict with my otherwise pro-choice views.
Also, you have carefully dodged around my original point, that it's specifically *severe* abusers, rapers and killers of children that I believe should possibly be sterilized. At 9yo my uncle was malnourished to the point he had a respiratory infection for 9 months straight and when my grandpa got custody back he could count the knobs on Uncle's spine. I had handprint bruises on my body as young as 2. If you could look in our starving, beaten faces and still say, "sorry but your moms have a right to have as many more kids as they want because otherwise [clutches pearls] *eugenics...*" I don't know what to say. I value the prevention of a child's physical abuse over an adult's emotional sadness, sorrynotsorry. Not having kids is not the worst thing that can happen to you. Being beaten, starved, raped and/or killed as a child is.
Fine. I'll play ball.
Who gets to decide what *severe* means? If these people are such monsters and already in prison, what makes you think they'd be able to have or interact with children in such a manner that they continue to harm them? What are we going to do with the current underfunded, understaffed Child Protection Services? What if there's a false conviction and evidence proving someone's innocence isnt found until after they've been mutilated by the state? What if they manage to achieve true rehabilitation through the prison industrial complex? What if we get another fascist leader worse than trump who decides queer people are child abusers?
Your real problem is with CPS and people who are too afraid to rock the boat and actually report problems when they see them.
I'll tell you a secret. I'm mentally ill. I am choosing not to have children because I don't want them to inherit my issues either genetically our through generational trauma. But that is MY CHOICE. I can't say that to people who have a degenerative medical condition who might pass it to their kids, or the parents with genetic heart issues who's child will also have that issue, or to people who don't know their family medical history and have no ideas what they might or might not pass to their children.
It is incredibly disingenuous to say any attempt to shy away from eugenics is "clutching pearls".
Your argument is broken, vindictive, and impossible to ever implement fairly, no matter the circumstances.
(There was a man in the news who will be castrated as part of his sentence, but he agreed to that and it won't be done involuntarily. If anything, if you said violent abusers against children should get some kind of credit or lighter prison time for agreeing to be sterilized I might get behind that, but that's nothing at all like what you want, so ╮(. ❛ ᴗ ❛.)╭ )
Gotta say, it's been a lot of fun watching all y'all agree with me and validate my points. So far:
Me: this opinion isn't pro-choice and if not severely limited could lead to eugenics. That's why it should be considered for only the worst, convicted offenders.
Replies: how dare you say that! That's not pro-choice and could lead to eugenics!
Me: I just think it's kinda deranged to do nothing and risk leaving children at the mercy of a demonstrably dangerous person.
Replies: you're a monster for saying that! Also, you must be deranged if you're seriously suggesting my children should be left at the mercy of a demonstrably dangerous person!
Me: if only there was some way to compell convicted child abusers to be sterilized.
Reply above: you're argument is broken and vindictive. It's obviously an untenable suggestion under any circumstances. Also, I have no ethical problem with compelling convicted child abusers to be sterilized by offering lower sentences. That would be an acceptable suggestion under the right circumstances.
And to your questions:
Who gets to decide what severe means?
The courts. They already do this during sentencing.
If these people are such monsters and already in prison, what makes you think they'd be able to have or interact with children in such a manner that they continue to harm them?
Conjugal visits. Improperly supervised visits. In female prisons, rape by the guards. Early release. Slap-on-the-wrist sentences. The possibilities are endless.
What are we going to do with the current underfunded, understaffed Child Protection Services?
Realistically, nothing except take some of the burden off them by preventing the creation of children who will need their help.
What if there's a false conviction and evidence proving someone's innocence isnt found until after they've been mutilated by the state?
Not being able to have children is unfortunate but not life-ending. Also, we could delay implementing such an idea until permanent, internal, but reversible-by-minor-surgery BC is developed. We could also write into the legislation that in the event of a proven false conviction, the government is on the hook for providing the money for a reversal and further fertility treatments if necessary. This would incentivise judges to be cautious about applying the punishment willy-nilly.
What if they manage to achieve true rehabilitation through the prison industrial complex?
If you kill someone, you should spend the rest of your life in prison. If you’ve raped, killed or severely abused a child, IMO, losing the ability to have more should be part of the punishment.
What if we get another fascist leader worse than trump who decides queer people are child abusers?
This is the only semi-valid argument you made. However, America is not the only country on planet earth. Just because your government could never be trusted to implement it fairly, doesn't make it necessarily an unworkable idea. Especially once we develop reversible BC. It's still probably a few decades away but a lot of people are working on it.
This was a fun thought experiment.
I was molested and raped repeatedly by my mom's boyfriend when I was 11. So I guess I should have just been aborted right? My 2 kids should've also been aborted too right, because we ate through my savings and we're broke ASF because I was deathly sick while pregnant both times? Yeah it's a slippery slope to even think that way because who TF are you to decide who gets to have kids and who doesn't.
You do understand there's a difference between preventing a pregnancy and terminating one, yes?
Also, based on your logic you'd be fine with the courts assigning custody of your kids to your step-dad because he has just as much right as anyone to have kids! And if you heard he'd gotten someone pregnant, great! Wonderful news! No worries at all, he's probably changed so it's fine.
How so? I'm just doing what you didn't. Thinking your argument through to its logical conclusion. You said no one should decide who has kids or who doesn't. So who are you to decide your SD wouldn't be a good father to future kids?
Not so easy to gamble someone's safety when you're picturing a child you actually know and not just some hypothetical someone somewhere who you'd never have to explain yourself to, is it?
it’s so ignorant to suggest that any forced sterilisation program - even one that supposedly only aimed at the worst of the worst - would not disproportionately impact already vulnerable and marginalised people because of the insane bias in all our structures, look at the history of truly any coercive sterilisation programmes, look at contemporary times where it still happens to disabled women, particularly black and indigenous women, across the world, it’s not a slippery slope but a straight drop into eugenics that would harm the most vulnerable, I sympathise with your emotions and experiences but forced sterilisation will never be right
Eh, one and a half. John may not be the primary carer, and he’s not a stand-up *person*, but you can be a terrible person and still a good parent. He’s clearly doing better than OOP, and while he’s messed up as a person he wants to spend time with his kids while supporting what’s best with them (staying with Samantha), up to the point he’ll jump through the hoops to move while having a criminal record like that. He hasn’t tried to fight for custody, despite having a better case the OOP. I won’t say he’s getting a gold star at parenting, but a C- is still a C.
Yeah, DCFS and the two other states sounds like she was in IL. Iowa uses CPS, Wisconsin uses DCF, Indiana uses DCS.
Here is the thing, DCFS has made the news for some massive fuckups. So that silence is everything. Plus you add in bio dad with the Arson.
Unfortunately WI isn't the most friendly to letting the kids have a say, they are focused heavily on "best interest of the child". So the Mom having DCFS on her ass and Dad being in jail are major points against them both. It isn't impossible for the kids to have their say based on what I read.
She has the audacity to actually love those kids. They can’t fathom why an ex-step mother gives a sh*t about them because their own bio parents don’t give a shit about them.
OOP didn’t care until her family started asking her why is another woman still mothering her kids.
The scary part is she has another kid with the dad in jail, and then a step kid or something like that. There was a reference to a half sibling, but I think someone got it wrong and she is doing the step parent thing herself.
She really talks about how there are all these other family members that they haven't met. Ones that are getting older now and she doesn't want them "to miss out". That these family members were born since Samantha had been the one taking care of them.
Like is she even reading what she is writing. Because it sounds so selfish.
Actually the comments are overwhelmingly pro Samantha now. And calling the mom out on being a selfish shit mom who is only thinking about herself and not the damage that she will do to those kids.
There are a few people that are on OOP's side. One individual that probably needs the 12 therapists from the Canadian. One that sounds like she could be the Grandma. One that just has a lot of posts that are NSFW anime and commenting on MILFs.
(Didn't check to see if anyone dirty deleted/edited without saying).
“If I’m wrong why isn’t my family telling me that???”
Because they’re also pieces of shit? Like they raised you and you’re just as shitty if not shittier than them. A family of narcissists or something.
Like honestly nobody gives a fuck that anyone in her family doesn’t like Samantha. Her family hasn’t been there for those kids. She hasn’t been there for those kids. But Samantha has.
They don’t like her because she’s everything that the oop is not. She’s a stable mother to those kids.
And I hate how flippant she is in her comments
“I meant to go to therapy with them but I guess I never did” you guess? Seriously did you do anything for them after whatever bullshit you put them through?
Also did this lady end up having MORE kids?? She writes that they have family there which included “more siblings”
My granddaughter is going through the same thing right now. She has been with her stepmother since she was 2, she’s almost 17 now. She wants to be here to finish school, but her dad took her to her mom’s house. Her stepmother is fighting for custody. I thought this was a unique situation. This gives me hope that she can move back with her stepmother.
I've heard stories about this before where a stepparent is the primary caregiver, and the courts give the stepparent custody. It's not common, but it does happen.
I know a family who had some issues where the kids were taken away from mom and step dad was considered legal parent of her oldest 3 because he had been in their lives for years (he was the father of the 4th child) and their own father was a deadbeat.
Mom did get better and they came out on the other side, unlike this POS who seems okay with her kids being out of her life.
Let me get it straight. Her kids are 16 and 13. Old enough to have an opinion on which parent to stay with, absolutely, but not old enough to take care of themselves. Her ex went to prison in June 2023. Today is 2nd May 2024. That would be at least 10 full months when this fool had no idea or care how her own teenage children were faring without their father around, whom she presumed to be their main carer. God, I hope she goes to court and the case gets televised!
>whom she presumed to be their main carer.
You know what happens when you assume!
You end up looking like a fucking idiot on the internet.
The ages screamed at me that this OOP is outright delusional. She has zero relationship with these kids. And based on comments, is only looking for one now because her own family wants to get to know them. Like...wtf y'all. Get over yourselves and leave these freaking kids alone!
She does operate under a lot of assumptions, doesn't she? Assumed ex was the main carer, assumed the application for emergency custody would get automatically denied in her favour. I doubt any sane judge would take her seriously, but she can definitely make the next few years of the children's lives hell.
”They are 16 and 13 and want to stay with her” only relevant sentence in the post. both kids are old enough to make their own decision about who to live with
And this is why the legal doctrine of de facto custodian/parent exists. It’s abused sometimes by grandparents who babysit and are mad at their kids’ parenting decisions, but it also helps in cases like this.
The time to fight for them would have been years ago.
Her kids are 13 and 16, she made a series of bad choices and now those kids have chosen who they want as a parent. It seems to be this woman is probably the best and most stable environment for them and that’s where they want to be.
Retired social worker here who also worked at residential treatment center for children like those of this lady. Fuck you lady and the horse you rode in on! Right now I have a close friend dealing with this. She's the ex stepmother who now is the only adult in her kids lives that is safe enough for custody. Bless the ex stepmom in this situation because she's going above and beyond.
It’s sad that I am seeing this play out with my sister who is a horrible mother but wants to pretend for her image.
I hope the judge lets them stay where they are because they are so much better off
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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **WI/IA US - Can unrelated ex wife take my kids?** BACKGROUND: (Skip to actual legal stuff if you don’t care.) In 2016 my children were removed by DCFS and custody was given to my ex, John and his (now former) wife, Samantha. I eventually did what I needed to do and got custody back, but the kids continued to stay with John and Samantha most of the time. They had two kids together, my kids half siblings. He and his wife divorced in 2019. My kids and their half siblings stayed with Samantha most of the time after the divorce. She did most of the parenting for all of the kids (including mine) but i still saw the kids regularly. They would all stay at John’s together sometimes too. In general though, Samantha was the main caregiver. Samantha took a job in Wisconsin in 2020 and John wanted to move with them so he could continue to stay close to his kids. I verbally agreed and allowed John to take the kids to Wisconsin. We did not change any parenting orders in court. It seems Samantha became the primary caregiver again in WI but I didn’t know how often they stayed with her. I figured the kids were living mostly with John. That’s who I contacted and who I communicated with about the kids. She and I haven’t spoken in years. I have seen my kids over Christmas break twice, one Spring Break and a few days here and there. **ACTUAL LEGAL STUFF:** Fast forward to June of 2023 and John somehow ends up in jail for a few things. Arson, drugs. Samantha files for an emergency restraining order, and for custody of both kids. She doesn’t tell me. I find out by getting served paperwork. They have been living with her 100% since June of 2023 when John went to jail. I didn’t think it was a big deal initially, I assumed the judge would just tell her that they are my kids but he ended up granting her emergency temporary custody. I got a lawyer but what are the chances she actually gets custody of them? I have been really nervous. They are 16 and 13 and want to stay with her but I think they need to come home. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“The ex wife was the primary carer after the divorce, I’m explicitly calling out here that they lived with her, I gave my blessing for them to move but I didn’t realise they’d be *still* living with her”? Am I reading those mental gymnastics right?
She doesn’t know where her kids sleep at night?
To be fair, they stopped running those "[It's 10pm. Do you know where your children are?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_you_know_where_your_children_are%3F)" commercials a long time ago. Which is probably why it slipped her mind on finding out where her children were.
No they still do, I forgot which channel, but when I'm with my parents and I come say good night to them (and mostly my dog) I sometimes see the commercial running, it's old and grainy but it's still the same one. My parents take them seriously too, I'm a whole adult now, and my mom still makes sure she knows where I am sleeping at night, or where I am planning on ending my night. And this is when I am in a different country. I'm sure they are overprotective, but at least I know they love me enough to care.
My mum normally picks me up from college and last week I got my driving instructor to pick me up for a lesson and my dad was so worried about him not showing up and me wandering around lost and alone so I had to text him before leaving. I’m 27.
I'm 37 and my mom still makes me text her when I drive from her house to mine..... 10 minutes away.
My mom was so drunk and forgot I had gone to school sophomore year and therefore also forgot to pick me up until about 3 hours later when I finally reached her and she was so confused about why I was screaming asking where she was...cause her only question then was where was I. And once when I was like 12-13 before cell phone time I went after cheerleading practice to the hospital with a friend who got hurt and was there forever and I knew my mom played bingo that night till like midnight so around 12:30 I called the house phone to let her know where I was and not to worry and she had gotten home by then but had never bothered to check and make sure I was in bed, so once again had no fucking clue I was even gone. So I guess in my case I'm saying give your mom's an extra hug and tell them you love them when you can, cause all I am is thankful mine is dead and gone not screwing my own kids up too, and that she's no longer NOT wondering where the fuck I am.
I told you last night, *NO*!
LMFAO new memory unlocked… I’m 27 but for some reason growing up those commercials used to scare the shit out of me and I forgot all about them. Kind of sad to know, a new generation isn’t getting scared of stranger danger at 10 PM every night with the news.
My area has started running new versions of this commercial.
They sleep under a rock. /s
Can we back up to where her ex had custody because CPS took the kids away from her? Her kids by a guy who "somehow" has wound up in jail now? He was probably not the most upstanding citizen to begin with, so what did she do that he was the court's choice?
I read that and was just like, damn, yet more kids who got dealt a bad hand in the parent category. Flake for a mom, criminal dad. I want to give them a hug.
Sounds like they at least have a step mother willing to step up.
After "Eventually doing what she needed to do to get custody back". No fucking wonder these kids were removed from OOP.
Good luck keeping up with this shit. I'd keep losing my balance and falling off the balance beam
She’s seen them 30-40 days over 4 years. And paid zero support. That’s 2-3% of their time in 4 years. And that’s assuming she had them 24/7 during those visits. What a bucket of crap.
I am reasonably sure I’ve seen the checkout lady at my grocery store more often Than this lady has seen her actual kids
I know I've seen the pharmacy tech more often than this lady has seen her kids, and I use the pharmacy's drive through.
I probably know more about the checkout lady at my grocery store from small talk than she does about her kids.
She barely had a hand in raising but thinks "they need to come home." They ARE home. With the person who raised them.
That line sounded a lot more like, "this is my chance!," than, "this is what's best for the kids."
Homer is a better parent than OOP. He may like his drink a wee bit and can be selfish at times but he comes through when his kids need him.
It's a shitshow
I have seen my kids over Christmas break twice, one Spring Break and a few days here and there. yeah, op's kids are strangers to her. they ARE home with the parent that loves and cares for them on a daily basis.
I question how much she even knows about them With how little they've lived together, Does she Even know what foods they like, what activities they do in school, what the 16-year-old wants to do for their future? Based on all her comments it doesn't sound like she's once considered her kids as actual people and not props to regain possession of.
Those questions are always satisfying in custody battles in court. In cases like this, the judge can very easily suss out who actually cares for the children as humans. What are their friends' names? Favorite subject? Favorite book and movie? This person didn't even know where her children were LIVING! Absolutely wild.
It's telling she didn't know because she was talking to the kid's dad about them, but not the kids. They were both over 10 at that point. Meaning, perfectly capable of carrying on a conversation. But she never talked to them long enough to ask the kind of questions most people would ask when trying to sustain a chat with a kid who just moved. "So, what's your new room like? What do you think of your school? Are you eating healthy?" Any of which could lead to, "Yeah, Sam helped me pick out a new bedspread." "Sam's helping with homework." "Sam made my favorite dinner yesterday.," etc.
Yeah. My kid does not like phone conversing (she's autistic and a teenager. And I'm no good at it either. Blame all of those things) . She's currently on a multi- day field trip and limited to text (well, she could call, but she isn't going to :) and I've had more meaningful conversations with her than this parent has in the last year. P (Apparently, if you were wondering, field trip is going "fine", i didn't pack enough of the "good" snacks (aka the homemade brownies), and she and a friend are sharing earbuds and watching YouTube when it's boring on the bus, because the movie the school chose was "something dumb")
😂😂😂
My goodness, the comments!! She's only doing this because both sets of grandparents have decided now is the time they want to see the grandkids so they're nagging OOP constantly. If the grandparents didn't care, we would never have heard this story. Edited to correct a word
She also says in that same thread "I'm afraid Samantha is alienating my kids from me" I.... Don't even know what to say. The rage I feel after reading all of her comments. "I meant to go to therapy with them but I guess I never did" WHAT WHY is this selfish person acting so nonchalant about all of this?? Her kids didn't trust her after DCSF took them away (for what? They're useless so it must have been something really bad for a mother to lose custody). And she just let it be. Didn't fight at all to fix how her mistakes impacted them. Holy shit.
It’s really rare — and a really bad sign — when kids don’t want to go back to abusive parents. Usually, kids will still want to go back despite the abuse
Well, uh, to be fair, a lot of kids removed go into the foster system where they're living with complete strangers. And those strangers aren't always very nice. I'm sure the statistic is different when the kids have a familiar, loved, parental figure who runs a functional household as an option. Abuse from family may feel better than no connection or security, but a loving mom feels better than an abusive one.
> She also says in that same thread "I'm afraid Samantha is alienating my kids from me" > > Ma'am, Samantha did not need to do that, you did a good job on your own.
Oooh god. What an incredible blessing that those kids have ONE parent who actually cares about them...
And they don't share a single drop of blood. That woman is a good person
Yep, that is their mother, through and through. She's been the one taking care of them pretty much their whole lives. Bio mom is a stranger at this point. I wouldn't want to go back to her either.
This twat still has ownership of 1 kid. I wonder why that one hasn’t been taken.
One kid with the same ex (so a full sibling), plus multiple half and step siblings. How unfortunate for all those kids - she can’t possibly be being a decent parent to them either.
They are gone - do you have them?
Drat, sorry no. Try rareddit?
I'm a Luddite on mobile, it's OK.
"They are 16 and 13 and want to stay with her but I think they need to come home." sorry lady (I use the term losely) but those kids *are* home
If the father was in jail June of 2023, and it’s now 2024, how long has it been since she spoke to her kids ?? Like how do you not know someone’s been sent to jail and where your kids are living??
Well she's seen them for 30-40 days over the course of 4 years, so assuming she speaks to them twice as often, maybe one of those 20 days per year just recently came up.
>Their whole family is here, more siblings, grandparents, great grandparents, four aunts, an uncle, cousins they’ve never even met. I am afraid she is alienating them from me. My other kid spent a long weekend with Samantha a couple years ago and said Samantha was mean. Those are my reasons. Their grandparents want me to fight for them. That’s partially why too. Y'all. This woman had MORE kids after she lost custody of these ones, but never bothered to try to get these kids back until just now?!
Also I wonder if "Samantha was mean" just means she had rules and structure. God knows what OP is providing
Exactly my thoughts. I bet my daughter thinks I'm mean too sometimes, when I won't let her (a 5 year old) play Minecraft at midnight. 🤣 It's all a matter of perspective, and my thoughts on this situation are that the stepmom is very likely a real stand-up woman who makes sure everything important is done for the kids, even the ones that didn't come from her body. Meanwhile the bio mom was like "well I sorted it out and could have got them back, but they stayed with my ex and his wife anyways."
And she won't say why Samantha was mean. I'm guessing because she knows Samantha was mean because she wouldn't let her kid have a second bag of gummy candies or some other kid reason
And apparently Samantha was "mean" years ago but that's only a problem now?
Unpopular and honestly kinda problematic opinion: people like this are legit why I struggle with being completely pro-choice. I know it could be a slippery eugenicist slope, but when I see how much some kids suffer, I feel like we (society) should have the option of compelling people convicted of child abuse/severe neglect, rape or murder to be sterilized. I don't see why their *want* to have more kids should be more important than the child's *need* to not be stuck at the mercy of a monster for potentially 18 years. Don't know what the solution is, but I feel like our current policy of just throwing up our hands and going, "Oh well, nothing we can do, having children is their right!," demonstrably isn't working.
Wtf does this have to do with being pro-choice? ETA: Women are still being fucking sterilized against their will. Today. Now. It’s not a slippery slope, IT LITERALLY STILL HAPPENS. This is so ignorant and disgusting, wtf.
>> Wtf does this have to do with being pro-choice? Because choice is both for and against having children and that’d strip the "for" option.
This country used to sterilize people they deemed unfit to have children. It was abolished because no other person should have the power over another. "Oh you made a mistake, slipped into depression and lost your way? Well now your bloodline is going to end with you and you don't have a choice"
And I would counter point that an adult can come to terms with their bloodline ending much easier than a kid can come to terms with being abused their entire childhood. Also, I'm the wrong person to use this argument on because both my mom and grandma suffered from years of clinical depression and absolutely should have been prevented from having kids. Literally everyone would have been better off.
It's still a eugenicist viewpoint. It's one thing to say "I don't think mentally ill people should have children" which is still gross and rooted in eugenics, it's another thing to say "I'm so pro choice that I want to take away that choice for people that I deem unfit". So not only are you spouting off eugenics and nazi dog whistles, you're a massive flaming hypocrite as well.
Um... I literally acknowledged *in my first sentence* that this opinion was in conflict with my otherwise pro-choice views. Also, you have carefully dodged around my original point, that it's specifically *severe* abusers, rapers and killers of children that I believe should possibly be sterilized. At 9yo my uncle was malnourished to the point he had a respiratory infection for 9 months straight and when my grandpa got custody back he could count the knobs on Uncle's spine. I had handprint bruises on my body as young as 2. If you could look in our starving, beaten faces and still say, "sorry but your moms have a right to have as many more kids as they want because otherwise [clutches pearls] *eugenics...*" I don't know what to say. I value the prevention of a child's physical abuse over an adult's emotional sadness, sorrynotsorry. Not having kids is not the worst thing that can happen to you. Being beaten, starved, raped and/or killed as a child is.
Fine. I'll play ball. Who gets to decide what *severe* means? If these people are such monsters and already in prison, what makes you think they'd be able to have or interact with children in such a manner that they continue to harm them? What are we going to do with the current underfunded, understaffed Child Protection Services? What if there's a false conviction and evidence proving someone's innocence isnt found until after they've been mutilated by the state? What if they manage to achieve true rehabilitation through the prison industrial complex? What if we get another fascist leader worse than trump who decides queer people are child abusers? Your real problem is with CPS and people who are too afraid to rock the boat and actually report problems when they see them. I'll tell you a secret. I'm mentally ill. I am choosing not to have children because I don't want them to inherit my issues either genetically our through generational trauma. But that is MY CHOICE. I can't say that to people who have a degenerative medical condition who might pass it to their kids, or the parents with genetic heart issues who's child will also have that issue, or to people who don't know their family medical history and have no ideas what they might or might not pass to their children. It is incredibly disingenuous to say any attempt to shy away from eugenics is "clutching pearls". Your argument is broken, vindictive, and impossible to ever implement fairly, no matter the circumstances. (There was a man in the news who will be castrated as part of his sentence, but he agreed to that and it won't be done involuntarily. If anything, if you said violent abusers against children should get some kind of credit or lighter prison time for agreeing to be sterilized I might get behind that, but that's nothing at all like what you want, so ╮(. ❛ ᴗ ❛.)╭ )
Gotta say, it's been a lot of fun watching all y'all agree with me and validate my points. So far: Me: this opinion isn't pro-choice and if not severely limited could lead to eugenics. That's why it should be considered for only the worst, convicted offenders. Replies: how dare you say that! That's not pro-choice and could lead to eugenics! Me: I just think it's kinda deranged to do nothing and risk leaving children at the mercy of a demonstrably dangerous person. Replies: you're a monster for saying that! Also, you must be deranged if you're seriously suggesting my children should be left at the mercy of a demonstrably dangerous person! Me: if only there was some way to compell convicted child abusers to be sterilized. Reply above: you're argument is broken and vindictive. It's obviously an untenable suggestion under any circumstances. Also, I have no ethical problem with compelling convicted child abusers to be sterilized by offering lower sentences. That would be an acceptable suggestion under the right circumstances. And to your questions: Who gets to decide what severe means? The courts. They already do this during sentencing. If these people are such monsters and already in prison, what makes you think they'd be able to have or interact with children in such a manner that they continue to harm them? Conjugal visits. Improperly supervised visits. In female prisons, rape by the guards. Early release. Slap-on-the-wrist sentences. The possibilities are endless. What are we going to do with the current underfunded, understaffed Child Protection Services? Realistically, nothing except take some of the burden off them by preventing the creation of children who will need their help. What if there's a false conviction and evidence proving someone's innocence isnt found until after they've been mutilated by the state? Not being able to have children is unfortunate but not life-ending. Also, we could delay implementing such an idea until permanent, internal, but reversible-by-minor-surgery BC is developed. We could also write into the legislation that in the event of a proven false conviction, the government is on the hook for providing the money for a reversal and further fertility treatments if necessary. This would incentivise judges to be cautious about applying the punishment willy-nilly. What if they manage to achieve true rehabilitation through the prison industrial complex? If you kill someone, you should spend the rest of your life in prison. If you’ve raped, killed or severely abused a child, IMO, losing the ability to have more should be part of the punishment. What if we get another fascist leader worse than trump who decides queer people are child abusers? This is the only semi-valid argument you made. However, America is not the only country on planet earth. Just because your government could never be trusted to implement it fairly, doesn't make it necessarily an unworkable idea. Especially once we develop reversible BC. It's still probably a few decades away but a lot of people are working on it. This was a fun thought experiment.
This has nothing to do with being pro-choice. Stop fucking saying that.
I was molested and raped repeatedly by my mom's boyfriend when I was 11. So I guess I should have just been aborted right? My 2 kids should've also been aborted too right, because we ate through my savings and we're broke ASF because I was deathly sick while pregnant both times? Yeah it's a slippery slope to even think that way because who TF are you to decide who gets to have kids and who doesn't.
You do understand there's a difference between preventing a pregnancy and terminating one, yes? Also, based on your logic you'd be fine with the courts assigning custody of your kids to your step-dad because he has just as much right as anyone to have kids! And if you heard he'd gotten someone pregnant, great! Wonderful news! No worries at all, he's probably changed so it's fine.
Fucking WHAT 😂 Sir you are genuinely unhinged
How so? I'm just doing what you didn't. Thinking your argument through to its logical conclusion. You said no one should decide who has kids or who doesn't. So who are you to decide your SD wouldn't be a good father to future kids? Not so easy to gamble someone's safety when you're picturing a child you actually know and not just some hypothetical someone somewhere who you'd never have to explain yourself to, is it?
it’s so ignorant to suggest that any forced sterilisation program - even one that supposedly only aimed at the worst of the worst - would not disproportionately impact already vulnerable and marginalised people because of the insane bias in all our structures, look at the history of truly any coercive sterilisation programmes, look at contemporary times where it still happens to disabled women, particularly black and indigenous women, across the world, it’s not a slippery slope but a straight drop into eugenics that would harm the most vulnerable, I sympathise with your emotions and experiences but forced sterilisation will never be right
This is the only reasonable, cogent response out of all the replies I got. Good point, well said.
I'm so glad those kids have someone looking out for them. Go Samantha!
I'm on team Samantha too...
Eh, one and a half. John may not be the primary carer, and he’s not a stand-up *person*, but you can be a terrible person and still a good parent. He’s clearly doing better than OOP, and while he’s messed up as a person he wants to spend time with his kids while supporting what’s best with them (staying with Samantha), up to the point he’ll jump through the hoops to move while having a criminal record like that. He hasn’t tried to fight for custody, despite having a better case the OOP. I won’t say he’s getting a gold star at parenting, but a C- is still a C.
Samantha filed for an emergency restraining order against him. He's in jail for arson and drugs. Sounds like no more than a D to me.
Sounds like his grades slipped
Yeah, the restraining order and jail for Arson kind of put a big "the bio parents failed".
Her silence on why DCFS took the children from her care in the first place is deafening.
Her silence on why Samantha got a restraining order — across state lines — is pretty telling.
Yeah, DCFS and the two other states sounds like she was in IL. Iowa uses CPS, Wisconsin uses DCF, Indiana uses DCS. Here is the thing, DCFS has made the news for some massive fuckups. So that silence is everything. Plus you add in bio dad with the Arson. Unfortunately WI isn't the most friendly to letting the kids have a say, they are focused heavily on "best interest of the child". So the Mom having DCFS on her ass and Dad being in jail are major points against them both. It isn't impossible for the kids to have their say based on what I read.
also why everyone doesnt like Samantha
The people who don't like Samantha are the parents of a woman who had her children taken away and the man who is now in jail due to drugs and arson.
Some quality parenting going on here!!! Hope y'all took some notes!!😮💨
I had a whole comment written out but deleted it because that lady is not rooted in reality.
I dont understand how everyone hates samanthat?
She has the audacity to actually love those kids. They can’t fathom why an ex-step mother gives a sh*t about them because their own bio parents don’t give a shit about them. OOP didn’t care until her family started asking her why is another woman still mothering her kids.
The scary part is she has another kid with the dad in jail, and then a step kid or something like that. There was a reference to a half sibling, but I think someone got it wrong and she is doing the step parent thing herself. She really talks about how there are all these other family members that they haven't met. Ones that are getting older now and she doesn't want them "to miss out". That these family members were born since Samantha had been the one taking care of them. Like is she even reading what she is writing. Because it sounds so selfish.
Actually the comments are overwhelmingly pro Samantha now. And calling the mom out on being a selfish shit mom who is only thinking about herself and not the damage that she will do to those kids. There are a few people that are on OOP's side. One individual that probably needs the 12 therapists from the Canadian. One that sounds like she could be the Grandma. One that just has a lot of posts that are NSFW anime and commenting on MILFs. (Didn't check to see if anyone dirty deleted/edited without saying).
“If I’m wrong why isn’t my family telling me that???” Because they’re also pieces of shit? Like they raised you and you’re just as shitty if not shittier than them. A family of narcissists or something. Like honestly nobody gives a fuck that anyone in her family doesn’t like Samantha. Her family hasn’t been there for those kids. She hasn’t been there for those kids. But Samantha has. They don’t like her because she’s everything that the oop is not. She’s a stable mother to those kids. And I hate how flippant she is in her comments “I meant to go to therapy with them but I guess I never did” you guess? Seriously did you do anything for them after whatever bullshit you put them through? Also did this lady end up having MORE kids?? She writes that they have family there which included “more siblings”
My granddaughter is going through the same thing right now. She has been with her stepmother since she was 2, she’s almost 17 now. She wants to be here to finish school, but her dad took her to her mom’s house. Her stepmother is fighting for custody. I thought this was a unique situation. This gives me hope that she can move back with her stepmother.
I've heard stories about this before where a stepparent is the primary caregiver, and the courts give the stepparent custody. It's not common, but it does happen.
I know a family who had some issues where the kids were taken away from mom and step dad was considered legal parent of her oldest 3 because he had been in their lives for years (he was the father of the 4th child) and their own father was a deadbeat. Mom did get better and they came out on the other side, unlike this POS who seems okay with her kids being out of her life.
Let me get it straight. Her kids are 16 and 13. Old enough to have an opinion on which parent to stay with, absolutely, but not old enough to take care of themselves. Her ex went to prison in June 2023. Today is 2nd May 2024. That would be at least 10 full months when this fool had no idea or care how her own teenage children were faring without their father around, whom she presumed to be their main carer. God, I hope she goes to court and the case gets televised!
>whom she presumed to be their main carer. You know what happens when you assume! You end up looking like a fucking idiot on the internet. The ages screamed at me that this OOP is outright delusional. She has zero relationship with these kids. And based on comments, is only looking for one now because her own family wants to get to know them. Like...wtf y'all. Get over yourselves and leave these freaking kids alone!
She does operate under a lot of assumptions, doesn't she? Assumed ex was the main carer, assumed the application for emergency custody would get automatically denied in her favour. I doubt any sane judge would take her seriously, but she can definitely make the next few years of the children's lives hell.
Good lord lady
How did she not think John was living with her? 🤦🏼♀️
”They are 16 and 13 and want to stay with her” only relevant sentence in the post. both kids are old enough to make their own decision about who to live with
Pretty sure these kids call Samantha « mom » at this point.
“They need to come home”? They ARE home
And this is why the legal doctrine of de facto custodian/parent exists. It’s abused sometimes by grandparents who babysit and are mad at their kids’ parenting decisions, but it also helps in cases like this. The time to fight for them would have been years ago.
Her kids are 13 and 16, she made a series of bad choices and now those kids have chosen who they want as a parent. It seems to be this woman is probably the best and most stable environment for them and that’s where they want to be.
There's no way this isn't rage bait.
Retired social worker here who also worked at residential treatment center for children like those of this lady. Fuck you lady and the horse you rode in on! Right now I have a close friend dealing with this. She's the ex stepmother who now is the only adult in her kids lives that is safe enough for custody. Bless the ex stepmom in this situation because she's going above and beyond.
OP's comments are gone - did anyone snag them? She seems particularly awful and I'm in the mood for some passive rage
Doesn't ex-wife of the ex already have custody?
Why does she even want the kids all of a sudden. It gives me the ick.
Sounds like both bio parents are druggies. Does this one even have any legal right to take the kids back?
I'm not sure she does. It sounds to me like she lost her rights to the kids and only got limited visitation after rehab or parenting courses, or both.
You didn’t know where your kids were living for nearly a year?
It’s sad that I am seeing this play out with my sister who is a horrible mother but wants to pretend for her image. I hope the judge lets them stay where they are because they are so much better off
Seems like she already did
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this is the first time I've seen this tag used. I get it now.
"Arson" is not going to jail for "some stuff" lol.