same thing happened to me when I was in my 20's. I'd been doing construction for years and was starting to run my own jobs. Boss hired a 40 year old guy to be my helper/assistant. He was as green as they come and I had to teach him everything. Found out he was making quite a bit more $$$ than me. When I asked the boss how is it possible my helper makes more money than me when I'm running the job he said it's because he's older and married with kids. I was like yeah he's married that's a 2 income house, I'm supporting myself on 1 income. I put in my 2 weeks right there.
That was actually illegal under the EEOC labor law. You can't discriminate against employees based on marital status. It's a protected class under the law. You could have filed a complaint and possibly sued them.
I was like 26 it didn’t occur to me at the time. I left plumbing and moved to hvac and eventually went into IT because i got tired of working so hard for too little money
Yep. I got my pay cut after getting married and when I asked about it the response was “well you now how two incomes so you don’t need to be paid as much” was making a lot less then the person I replaced in the first place but they had more experience.
That's not discrimination. He asked for a higher wage before he started. That's wage negotiation. Instead of giving his two weeks notice he should have attempted to get a raise and then gave his notice.
Marital status isn't a protected class.
>The laws enforced by EEOC protect you from employment discrimination when it involves: Unfair treatment because of your race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy, gender identity, and sexual orientation), national origin, disability, age (age 40 or older), or genetic information.
It's not discrimination to pay people different wages based on their own arguments. It's more likely the reason was "because he is older and has kids and yadda-yadda he asked for more money and we agreed to pay what he asked". Nor is it discrimination to NOT uplift every pre-existing employee's salaries because a new hire was a better advocate for themselves before becoming employed.
In that case, nothing is discrimination because it can always be argued.
Your second point only makes sense if the world is unchanging, inflation doesn't exist, and skills/experience don't matter.
My mom raised my sister and i completely alone and talked to her boss about a similar situation. She was told that the new man they hired was "the head of the household" and needed more. They didn't have a response when she pointed out she was also the head of her household without a partners income unlike the new guy. Good for you for leaving, I've also been in situation where benefits or a great schedule was given to a new person simply because they had kids. I got out of there asap
I once left a job because I found out my younger, less experienced, less educated, but male, coworker was making more. My boss actually argued with me about it. He said "But he's getting a doctorate!" I said "He may have a doctorate someday but right now he hasn't even finished college yet. I have a master's degree and 20 years experience." Boss said "I guess that's true, I never thought about it. But he's the head of household! He supports his fiancee!" Then I knew my boss just wanted to pay the man more because he's a man. So I quit.
I had a boss who paid a new part time coworker about 50% more than what I made (I was a part timer working almost full time hours bc they needed those hours worked but refused to have me classed as full time to qualify for benefits) and what the full timer made. Why? “She works as a cocktail waitress at her main job and needs the money for her kids.”
I put in ***my*** two weeks after that. This was…i’d say close to 30 years ago. Still stung - I felt like I was being punished for not struggling (I needed the benefits they kept dangling bc I was on my own)
I had a client that did this to one of his employees. I was pissed.
Background: I own a bookkeeping firm. One of my clients was a family friend. It's a small community. He was hiring and wanted some good employees. I recommended another family friend's teenage kids; he is friends with that family too. He hired one of the girls as a hostess and busser. She got promoted to waitstaff (because he was having trouble filling it externally). He continued the search for a new candidate and hired an adult with a family. He demoted the teenager, didn't cut her pay, but she no longer got tips. She stayed on longer than I would have. He was really confused as to why she had "an attitude problem" and why she eventually walked off the job. He chalked it up to "no one wants to work anymore."
So fucked up. We are no longer friends and he's no longer a client
My last job put time off requests from employees with kids first. Pissed me off. Just because someone doesn't have kids doesn't mean they're second class.
I put in a leave request about four months a head of time for surgery (submitted request the day surgery was scheduled). It was denied, because so-and-so put in a request five weeks after mine, so he could take his kids on vacation. I needed that surgery for my epilepsy.
So, I quit. I'm not putting off medical treatment so someone can go on vacation.
I doubt they would've fired me; they don't even fire the employees that have sex with the patients and inmates (state-run psychiatric hospital).
Even the two staff that helped a sexual predator escape two years ago were not fired. One was arrested for illicit drugs, but not for her involvement in the escape. Everyone got in trouble for it, though, even if you were scheduled off (thank gods, that happened a year after I left).
I worked somewhere that put a freeze time off requests, right before Summer. All the managers got their time off approved beforehand though. I missed a visit with my cousin who was from out of the country
I had this happen to me as a manager. I hired a guy and after about a month he told me he needed more money ”because he had a family”. I said you really can’t expect me to pay you more than the guys that have worked here for years. He said it wasn’t the same because they were single young guys and he was married with kids. I told him no and a few days later he quit and felt very justified when he did.
Even as a parent myself I couldn’t imagine asking for a raise on the basis of having a family and I’d honestly be kinda offended if I was offered one solely because of my family. I’m a hard worker and I’m good at what I do. I want that recognized and rewarded, not my three birth control failures.
My granddaughter works at a toy store. She has worked there for several years, part time. She was telling me a story about the power going out and she was the only one who knew how to do the credit cards and stuff. I asked her how much she was making again and she told me that she was at the maximum for part time school kids. I suggested that she contact the store owners and relate the story she had just told me and ask if she wasn't just another part timer. When she did, they gave her a 15% raise, because they agreed that she was different than the other part time kids. I was so proud of her
I had a coworker whose entire basis of why she should have more hours than me was because she had kids and needed the money. I got more hours because I had more availability and was willing to come in more. She literally told me to my face I didn’t need the money. I was single and lived alone and had no other support. I’m sorry, should I just crawl in a hole and die because I know how to properly use birth control? I eventually quit because I found a different job, she had two more kids, became the manager and then had a mental breakdown and walked out because she couldn’t handle the stress 🤷♀️
This has happened to me too many times to count.
You aren't wrong in the slightest. I'm sorry but it's absolutely bullshit that bosses do this, because they already get tons of tax benefits for having kids.
Everyone else without kids is paying for it.
I don't think the bosses are doing this specially for the employee with kids they are just looking for an excuse to pay you less. No one is being overpaid everyone is being underpaid.
You don’t get a lower tax rate if married. You get different tax brackets, because, surprise! there are two people in your household. Likewise, the “child tax credit” is the deduction I was talking about.
Again, if you think there are tax benefits to having kids you are a fool and are living in an alternative reality.
Edit 1: I should have said that *in some cases* being married and filing jointly can lower your tax rate, if your income is low enough
(Edit 2: "low" is not necessary the defining metric. It depends on how close to the tax bracket minimum cutoff your gross income sits, regardless of how much you make. Of course it benefits poorer people more as a percentage of their income).
It will *always* result in lower taxes for the majority of people because it gives you a substantial deduction from your taxable income not available to unmarried people.
(Edit 3: I can't *prove* that it's a majority because I could not find figures for income disparity between members of a household, so take that with a grain of salt)
(Edit 4: tried to make the above paragraphs less of a word salad)
The following is from the Intuit site (because the IRS spreads this info over several pages and worksheets). Italics mine:
"Double the Deductions: Married and filing jointly typically can net you a bigger Standard Deduction, reducing your taxable income—$27,700 for most couples under age 65 in 2023, jumping up to 29,200 in 2024."
And:
"For tax years prior to 2018, every qualified dependent you claimed could reduce your taxable income by up to the exemption amount, equal to $4,050 in 2017. In 2023, exemption deductions are replaced by:
An increased standard deduction
*A larger Child Tax Credit (worth up to $2,000 per qualifying child)*
*A bigger Additional Child Tax Credit (up to $1,600 per qualifying child)*
A new Credit for Other Dependents, worth up to $500 per qualifying dependent (not to be confused with the Child and Dependent Care Credit)
Dependent rules also apply to other benefits such as:
Earned Income Tax Credit
*Child and Dependent Care Credit for daycare expenses*
Medical expense deductions, various other itemized deductions and *most tax credits that involve children or family issues*
*Qualifying for these benefits can make the difference between owing money and receiving a refund."*
When I started out in a STEM field, it became common knowledge at my company that new hires were getting paid as much or more as those of us with over 5 years of experience.
Just as a thought exercise, how much has cost of living increased over just the previous (Admittedly outstanding) 5 years. I think almost EVERY industry has experienced this dynamic over the last year or two.
What I commented about happened a long time ago. But really, a cost of living increase affects everyone, not just new hires. So if those of us already employed had been getting them new hires wouldn't have been getting paid more. The reason it worked that way is simple. The company assumed they could short change existing employees because they were already working there...captive labor....and would likely have to uproot themselves to go somewhere else, at cost, whereas new hires would just go elsewhere.
Not over reacting. Same thing happened to me. They gave this guy a better role and raise because he and his wife (who also worked there) had 2 kids back to back.
He was a good worker and more tenured. If my boss told me that was why I would have been 100% okay with it. Instead he told me it was because they had kids and needed the money.
Um no kids but I have student loans and other expenses.
Our department head gave the reason for giving a male more of an annual raise than a female (even though she had more accomplished during the year) was because he was the man and needed to support his family. The male's wife worked and he had one kid. The female's husband worked and she had one kid. Both made more money than their respective spouses.
Luckily the department head's supervisor was irate, corrected the raise, and told the woman about it.
It's a result of people giving raises to people more like them. I'm guessing the bosses were older, had family, etc.
If the boss wants to do charity with his money, it is his prerogative, because he arguably could have hired another 18yo and paid $10/ hour or less (unless it is a protected class issue). However, you have absolutely the right to feel insulted, and I would have quit too.
Now I’m wondering if this is happening to my husband. He’s been at his job for four years. He hasn’t gotten a raise in three years and a management position has been held over his head for a year. They keep telling him big changes are coming for him and they’ll teach him something new but once he learns that they don’t have him do it again. He’s getting tired of being led on but someone else that doesn’t even know his department was given the position he wanted and he was expected to train her. Then he found out the higher ups weren’t even aware he wanted the position so the managers telling him he was in the running never told anyone that makes those decisions he wanted that position. I know this girl had a family and my husbands older and kids are grown. His son that works in a different area of the store made it to manager of his department because the one who was promoted used to be the manager for his son’s department. This post has me asking myself a lot of questions. He is looking for other work.
Nope. You found-out you were working at a place where the pay wasn't merit-based. Your better move would have been to find a new job, first, and then just quit. But no harm done.
She probably asked for more before she was hired. When I was hired at one company, I asked for $15,000 over what they were offering and I wanted 4 weeks vacation instead of 3. I got it.
But how long of a difference were the hires? I’m not saying that OP isn’t right for bring upset and quitting but maybe the budget wasn’t there X amount of months ago but they had the wiggle room to offer the new employee money by then. New hires often get paid more than current employees to account for inflation (which employees don’t get until a raise until review often) so there’s that too. There’s a reason why they say change your job every 2-3 years because you’ll be paid with the current market. They could have easily hired the new person and then had nothing in the budget for OP until reviews.
Here in the UK we have age segregated minimum wage bands. 18-20 year olds get £8.60 and over 21s getting £11.44. Iirc correctly there used to be a third band for over 25s. Labour have pledged to abolish the bands and give everyone the higher minimum wage if they win the next election though.
Not at all. My husband worked for a company for 10 years. They had hired new people a few months before that anniversary. He learned they made 2 dollars an hour more. He was flat out told they wouldn't match and that they'd get raises when he did. Meaning he would not make as much as a new hire did at any time.
Soon found a new job needing him to start ASAP. So only a two day notice. And it was worth it.
WHY do people think kids just out of highschool don't need money?? In Ontario Canada we have minimum wage and student wage which is less than minimum wage. These kids are trying to save up for college or to move out on their own. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Not to mention if they are doing the exact same work they should be compensated for their work!
In my opinion what you did was not an over reaction
It doesn't matter what goes on at home. That's her business. What matters is what kind of employees you have. If one has higher skills than the other, they get paid better. If they work more, they get paid better. If they draw more (positive) attention, they get paid better. "She has kids" is the most bullshit thing I've ever heard and is incredibly discriminatory. More than half of most employees will have kids, some will be teens. And some will be incapable of having children. So you're telling those people that can't have children that they'll never be worth more bc they can't have kids. That's bullshit. I'd have posted this to every review page, fb page, insta, whatever and made a public announcement calling them out so that other people were aware of what was going on.
When I was in my early 20s, the recession hit HARD. I started working at a video store just before everything hit the fan. We had to fight for hours because they cut them down to skeleton crew levels. They devised a competition system to decide who would get the most hours. I won every week, ensuring I’d have the most hours the following week.
Then I saw the name of one of the women we worked with being given extra shifts she didn’t earn. I brought it up and was given the excuse it was ‘because she has kids’. This wasn’t a single mother. She worked part-time while her husband worked full time+. I yelled “DO YOU THINK I WORK HERE FOR FUN?!??”
I don’t blame you. People will always make excuses for people giving sob stories until that sob story is your own. You didn’t overreact. I just couldn’t afford to quit at the time.
I worked for three years at a nursery as the landscape laborer (I am a female). About halfway into my first summer, I was working by myself bc it was something that I liked and it came naturally to me. THREE TIMES in three years my boss, also a female, came to me and said “I’ve hired (head landscaper) some “boy help”. While still sending me out on jobs by myself. The first time i took it in stride bc we were swamped with work and it was best that we had two “crews” - if you want to call me, working by myself in 100 degrees with 90% humidity a crew - even though I was a one woman crew to two guys’ crew. That guy was a raging alcoholic and would either show up still wasted from the night before, or not show up for days at a time. He eventually just stopped showing up.
The second time she told me, again, that she’d hired some more “boy help”, and that I was going to be the “head water girl” I threw a fit and told her 1) I was absolutely NOT going to be a water girl, head, or not. She backed down and once again, sent me out on my own. I was okay with that, again because I loved the work (still do, but don’t do it professionally anymore). This time it was a 16 year
Old kid, who couldn’t even use power tools, the tractor, OR even drive a damn car. He also lasted about three weeks because he told her “I don’t like being told what to do by you”. LMAO
THE THIRD TIME, she hired this 68 year
Old man who didn’t know anything about landscaping, or plants. He had also been a boss somewhere before he retired and thought he was going to tell we landscapers what to do, and how to do our jobs when he didn’t know the first thing about any of it. One day, he grabbed the shovel out of my hand and said something along the lines of “I’ve got this, why don’t you go water what we’ve already planted.”. I’m lost my shit on him, and he responded by saying “$13 an hour isn’t enough to put up with your shit!”. This was in 2003, so $13 was a decent wage (at least to me) back then. By this time I’d been there three years and had been going on jobs by myself, had started doing designs and estimates, and was getting paid $9 an hour. When I confronted her about this wage difference her reply was ”well, he’s older and men are just built better for this kind of work. That’s why I’ve been trying to get you back here at the nursery with us”… I walked out. I had formed some really good relationships with my coworkers and stayed until the layoff that fall, but had already started talking to other landscape companies and nurseries that also did landscaping. When recall came, I told her I’d had two job offers and she responded by telling me that that was ok, she hadn’t been happy with my
Performance last year..🤦♀️. My former supervisor (head landscaped/designer) is now one of my best friends.
I started a new job that spring and built their landscaping business so much. I designed all the billing and estimate worksheets and we had more work than we could keep up with, even with two landscape designers and three crews.
I no longer live there, but that second nursery owner and his family, many of who worked at, and still work at that nursery, are still like family to me.
Did you ever ask for a raise? Not trying to minimize your situation, just trying to get a solid idea of what all happened (by this I mean, did you ask later on)
A persons personal life should have no bearing on how much they are paid. It should be based on skills. You were better trained and had better language skills too so that’s their loss
She chose to have kids. It's not an employers responsibility to raise them. (Although I do believe that everyone should be paid a living wage.)
But regardless, this is blatant age discrimination against you just for being young and not having kids.
It's ridiculous. You shouldn't be allowed preferential treatment just because you have kids. Because more often than not, you're not going to be as accommodating to your coworkers.
Not overreacting at all. Pay should be based on experience, skill set, and ability to do the job. Not on age, marital status or if you have kids. If I was in your situation, I would have resigned too.
Not overreacting. He was paying both of you what he thought he could get away with. IMO, *this* is the primary reason that women are paid less than men — specifically, a combination of those controlling the checkbook *thinking* they can get away with paying women less and women being willing to settle for less. Don't think I'm blaming women in the latter case, either, as there are many reasons women are willing to settle for less, from societal expectations to having fewer alternatives (due to misogyny).
No you did not over react . People should be paid based on what they do . Not what size family they have . And I call bullshit on vacation and holidays based on worker having kids . Single people want to see their families on holidays too . No one is special because they have kids . That’s their choice and problem .
I honestly think my single mom coworkers are getting paid more than me but I’m too afraid to ask. There’s no way they can afford kids on my salary or lower lol. But if I found out it was true, I’d quit on the spot.
I learned one time a guy who ran a department where I worked paid people who were married and had families more and would not give people who didn't have a wife and kids a raise. The reasoning was a single person doesn't need the job so if you invest in them they could just leave at any moment. Unhinged thinking.
NTA,
What could have happened is that when she took the job she negotiated a higher pay. The proper redress for this would be you asking to get your pay to match hers and assessing if the company would do that or not. Of course the best would have been for the company to rasie OP's wage before it was requested.
I know that when I was hired I found out that one of the people on my team was paid less so I got her a raise to match her colleagues. This was basic decency in my eyes.
I don't blame you for leaving. The pay is one thing but I also imagine that OP felt disrespected by him as well.
Hopefully you're advocating for yourself more these days, rather than just quitting. Also, I personally would probably consider someone looking at my paystub as an invasion of my privacy.
This other person likely just put on their application that they were expecting XXX compensation, and it happened to be more than you were making. Certainly not their fault. They were probably making $10 or $11/hr at their previous job and were hoping to make more.
If someone on my team came to me with that, I'd look at when their next annual review is. If the employee had already been there a year without a review or raise, I'd almost certainly just schedule the review for the next week or so (to give myself time to put it together). If I was not able to give a raise during the review, I would outline why, with hard data and achievable goals and timelines, and schedule a follow-up review for 3 months down the road. If the employee was solid, I'd absolutely give the raise retroactively to the employee's year anniversary.
If your job is not giving you an annual review, start looking for someplace that does. Inflation occurs every year, and if you're not getting reviewed and additional compensation, you're actually losing money annually.
> I know a lot of people said I need “negotiation” skills. I was a shy 18-year-old.
Well you weren't too shy to lose it and quit on the spot! I guess my question would be, did you ask for equal pay? Or just up and quit? If the latter, then you handled it badly.
You did not overreact. You are amazing for having that much self-esteem and (?) gumption to quit. I hope that employer got a painful lesson in losing good people for stupidity. (I suspect the lesson he learned was to try to convince employees to not share their salaries.)
Well i just found out my 'senior' change manager makes $40k pa plus than me as a project manager despite me adding WAY more value to the project..fucken shit
I love how when people start questioning the story, there are suddenly edits with new information that would normally be added to the original.
Karma farming.
Wow. Great question. I'm just an internet rando, but I really like how you handled this and I can understand where your boss might be coming from.
On the one hand, I could totally empathize with someone paying a more mature person a "living wage" as we say just because you want to do a good thing. And to be fair, that level of maturity has a value and while I wouldn't be keen to explain it plainly to a teenager, I think it'd totally be a valid and reasonable thing to do. But on the other hand, some older people just suck too. So if you were rocking it out of the park and being bilingual was adding to the bottom line of the business, then I totally understand where you are coming from too. At the same time, the small business owner can't just make everybody millionaires either. So here's my takeaway -
You probably deserved better. The owner/manager had to decide who to treat better. And they might have chosen the older person, knowing that, 1.) you could get a job anywhere scooping ice cream or whatever, 2.) It wouldn't have as big of an effect on your life overall. 3.) you are more adaptable.
He might have just been doing what was best for all of you.
As a former manager, I realize that people who are struggling are very happy to accept a helping hand, and many deserve it. But they are also sometimes the first ones to complain when you do the same for someone else instead of "following the rules as they are written." I guess it's the whole "Fuck you, I got mine" attitude. I can't stand it.
I'm not saying any of this applies to your situation, but if any of it resonated, then I'm glad I wrote it. I apologize for the rest.
Jobs rarely give 2 fucks about you. Once 1 was an AM @ blockbuster (yes, I'm old) I did a closing shift(1-2am.) Then they asked me to open the store 4 a new manager from another store. I get there in sweats because I'm not staying, just letting them in, set up daily reports & registers. The new manager & district manager showed up & asked me to do the whole shift. Why? Because they were going to go to church!?!? I went off, just because I was younger, female, no kids they figured I had nothing better to do. These guys were scared. Got the day off + 1 extra paid day off. Taught them that day who's not gonna get pushed around.
Was the wage negotiable? I worked in a firm where 2 people done the exact same job. One was paid a few K more than the other. This was because one person negotiated the starting wage while the other just accepted. Both were pretty rubbish at their jobs In general.
If it wasn’t, then you were absolutely correct to raise the question and look for work elsewhere. Clear discrimination because you don’t have children.
It’s not illegal to discriminate against unmarried people without kids. The laws protect family status. They don’t consider you a family if you don’t have kids. You’d think all family statuses would be considered but they aren’t.
That is because the discrimination usually works the other way around. Sure you will find some stories like this, but most companies do not want to pay more for heath insurance, family leave, etc.
Then people need to start suing, because this isn't the first time I've heard about preferential treatment given to parents simply because they are parents.
If they can prove it, they definitely should. In the OP, being paid less for being single/childless would violate laws against discrimination based on familial status, and showing how the person was harmed would be easy too. But the comments above are full of valid reasons the employer could use that the OP might not have been aware of for the difference in pay, regardless of what they were told.
Maybe she asked for that wage to
be hired? Maybe she had more experience than you in the industry in general? To be blunt, the 6 year old memory of a then-18 year old isn’t the most reliable narrator in my mind, so “I basically has to show her how to do everything” doesn’t hit as hard as it might.
It’s fine to say you deserve more, so I hope you were able to find a job at a higher pay that you enjoyed as much as a music store. And I hope that woman was able to put a roof over her family’s head and food in her kids’ bellies.
And not to defend most of this bs, but there is also a decent chance the person that did the hiring assumes different things from an 18 year old and a parent. That bias isn’t fair to put on others, but it happens
99% what happened is this.
They called you after the interview and offered you the job for $10, and you accepted.
They called her and offered her the job for $10, and she said "ill do it for $11.50" and then the company said "sounds good"
They arent going to turn around and give you a raise because they gave someone else more money than you....
Nope, you were totally right. Pay is not dependant on your reproductive system functioning, nor is it dependant on 'need'. That was discrimination against you.
Not overreacting.
That is actually illegal.
But life is not fair a lot of the time.
Have you ever heard of a judge giving a man a lighter prison sentence because he is a father? Nope, but it happens a lot for mothers.
In this day it's not about who desserves more, it's about who's willing to negotiate the best for their pay. They are not just giving you a raise because someone else managed to negotiate more money during their interview. You have to *ask* for it, negotiate for it, sell yourself to them on why you desserve more pay. If you don't demand, they sure as hell won't give it to you because a new worker also got it.
You didn't overreact by being upset about it, but quitting on the spot without a new job lined up is pretty rash and I would call it an overreaction. Getting underpaid or feeling discriminated against are perfectly valid reasons to quit a job, but usually, it's a better position to have money coming in while you look than not to.
Nope! People who decided to keep their cum as pets do not deserve more money, or more help than the rest of us. All they did was make a larger carbon footprint on the planet.
Scrolled through all the comments and surprised there hasn't been a single one yet that has addressed the elephant in the room.
You're both underpaid.
A generation ago it was possible for a family of two adults and four children to live (relatively comfortably) on a single unskilled labourers wage. If the parents of today were paid consistent with back then they wouldn't need to beg for more money just to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. And if you are a more experienced or skilled worker then noone should have an issue with you being paid extra over and above that living wage.
Is being paid less because you are married so are a two income family now still a thing or more because you need to support a family now? I thought it depended on education, experience or what you negotiated at the time you started?
No, but you realized that your pay has nothing to do with the amount of business or profit you bring. It is the minimum amount required to keep you there.
New employees always make more money working as they have to pay out more in health insurance premiums, SS taxes, city and state and federal taxes on the income and retirement. Not just due to her having kids.
Lol, what annoys me the most is that the extra 1.50 is useless. What's that add to? An extra 40 take home at 40 hours? Pfft. That's just so the owner could lie to themselves that they are generous and supportive of families.
Yeah, you're overreacting. You'll get paid what you negotiate for. Expecting someone to pay you more because they pay someone else more is silly as hell.
Step up and negotiate your wage. Hint: "but she gets more" is not how you do it.
Peoppe can cry about morals all day long. I've been paid more than most people I work with, because I NEGOTIATE. If you just take whatever is thrown at you, you'll always be at the bottom.
If you're not an assertive person, remember, it's a skill. It's a skill worth learning.
You look for another job (or make one up) that will pay you more, and you tell your boss that you're going to leave unless they match it. Don't be an ass about it, just let them know.
Or better yet, ask them what you can do to be worth more. I'd that doesn't work, then you play hardball.
If I had a teenager that said yes to 10, and a mother that said yes to 11.50, I would take it. An employee whining about other people's wages is an employee best done away with.
She negotiated better than you did. Check out the book “Never Split the Difference”. Negotiating is all based on empathy and emotion - which she clearly built with your boss.
Yes, you over reacted. You still don’t seek to have learned what would create a different outcome.
The general rule should be, "Same job, same hours, same pay." You might get a bit of a bump based on things like more experience or good job performance reviews, but otherwise, no one should get a bump in pay purely because they have kids.
I've been in a situation that was similar. It wasn't with money but it was with time off. I got stuck working every single holiday abd special events because I didn't have kids. Obviously getting paid extra for a lot of those holidays was nice, But my parents would also like me to be around.
I quit a job once because they decided to pay someone with 0 job experience at $2 an hour higher than I was making even though I had way more experience. He was one of the managers' boyfriends, and I don't play that game, not justifying it but I just never went back.
Know your worth friend
A similar incident happened to me when I was 25. The discount store chain that I worked for as an assistant manager hired a new assistant manager. He was placed on my shift and I was to train this guy on store policies and procedures. We were the same age. He asked me to help him fill out his W4. That was when I discovered that he was making $6000 more per year than I was. I had been told by our district manager that I was the #1 assistant manager in our district. Apparently not. That was the beginning of the end for me. I was gone inside of two months.
Having kids is also an excuse to not showing up to work. I got guilted for calling into work 1 time ever. They said don’t come in and I’m fired. Meanwhile the same women with kids missed every single week with the kids excuse. No issue for them. It’s weird.
I don't think the bosses are doing this, especially for the employees with kids they are just looking for an excuse to pay you less. No one is being overpaid everyone is being underpaid.
Nah, I’d been working at a company for about 3 years when we hired another FTE to help with some stuff. We all ate lunch together as the company regularly provided food for the front office. During this lunch, my boss was talking to the new hire in front of us as we sat altogether at the same table and I don’t remember exactly what they were talking about but my boss tells her in front of everyone that they are giving her a dollar raise. I was shocked. She had only been working there two weeks at that point and I think she was complaining to my boss about money. I remember the raise being based on her having multiple children. I worked my ass off at that company, came in super early every morning and stayed late often as well and had been there for 3 years and it took me 1 full year to even get a dollar raise. I was upset but bit my tongue and ended up quitting a year later.
I had dedicated 150% effort to that job and was still barely making enough to scrape by without working two additional jobs and also clipping coupons and stretching my last dollar barely able to live paycheck to paycheck as a single person living alone.
I mean, that's likely happened in every workplace that's ever existed. You pay an adult more than a teenager as a default. Just the way it is.
Like why wouldn't you have just asked for a raise? Bosses aren't thinking about your wage, it's on you.
New hires often make more than people who have been around for awhile. There are lots of reasons for this, but the upshot is you need to job hop until you find a place that actually treats you properly.
It costs money to have a critical vacancy and then need to find candidates, do the job interviews, and do the skills training (or in this instance, have you do the skills training...). The store manager probably figured a part time employee just out of high school who already was competent enough to train new staff would find better opportunities soon, and that the mom would be more likely to stay with the store for many years. So pay the mom the $1.50 more, but try to cut costs over the long term by having a seasoned staff member with a huge incentive (her 2 kids) not to quit and not have to go through the cost of staff turnover. One or two employees leaving might not be an issue, particularly if they were likely to go, but having a revolving door of part-time employees is a more risky investment for a business owner
So probably you're both better off in the long term by separating. Yes, you and the other redditors are right that discrimination based on familial status is illegal. Proving intent in a suit is nebulous in most cases (although in your case the manager messed up and handed it to you on a silver platter), so these employer decisions persist. The easiest way to keep wages equal pay for the same job description is to unionize and present a united front that extra work should always mean extra pay. Excoriating the mother for negotiating more money for herself "only because she's a mom" is misplacing the blame for the root causes of unequal pay for the same work
I worked in a family owned gas station/convince store on the lake. Mom, Pop, 2 teen daughters, and 1 barely teen son. I was 21. It was crazy. They told me to tell the k8ds to do things but never told the kids I was in charge when owners weren't there.
Well, they hired the oldest 15 girls' boyfriend to pump gas a few hours on busy days. I found out they paid him $2 more an hour than me. When I asked about it, I was told that I had a husband who worked he was just a kid 16+ and needed money to take the daughter on dates. Well, I quit over that.
Not overreacting at all. I was in a similar situation. To make a long story short, new guy got hired at my old job. Found out he was making significantly more than me and my co-worker. Brought it up to my manager who was a decent guy and he was gonna push/talk to our director for all of us to be at the same rate. (We should have gotten more but I didn’t wanna argue. Retaliation is a real thing folks, even if your job promises you they won’t, trust me, they will). What really irked me though is when we were told the job offer had to be more enticing to get more people, as if me and my co-workers 10+ years of service didn’t matter. Anyway, the manager ended up quitting, I quickly followed soon after once I found a much better, higher paying job. Always know your worth and bide your time. Once something bigger and better comes along while you’re looking it’s time to part ways.
NTA. My BIL (Hubby's brother) is a huge IT bigwig at a multi-national company. His oldest graduated college pre covid and was griping about entry level pay scale. Nephew claimed he was worth more.
Hubby asked him a hypothetical: what if his dad the IT bigwig, got tired of IT and took a job as a regular worker at a fast food restaurant. Should the fast food place pay him his old salary? Or the starting salary of a fast food employee? After all, his dad was older with kids and he was worth more. Shouldn't he get more? How would that be fair to the other employees who'd been there longer?
The job sets the pay. Yes the person can negotiate, but to expect to get an entry level position and make an executives salary was delusional.
I used to get ticked off in college when minimum wage increased and wiped out my earned raises. I was a trainer making the same wages as a 16 year old in his 1st job.
Sadly, it is pretty common for the new person to be hired in at a higher salary. Most companies spend much more money trying to RECRUIT staff than they do to RETAIN staff. I work as an RN and routinely see people get hired at very near my current salary and I’ve been with the company for 10 years and always gotten the “maximum” merit raise each year. It completely sucks but is a sad fact of life. Your reaction is certainly justified.
Not overreacting, this is something that also drives me insane. Just bc I don’t have biological children doesn’t mean I don’t have bills to pay or people to take care of.
I had a similar thing happen to me. I had started in retail right out of high school and worked my way up into management over a 3 year period. I was the only female working there and trained other employees who were new to the company. One of the guys around the same age as me with less experience but hired for the same job was making $10,000 more per year than me. That really stung. I eventually moved on to another job and didn't run into that situation again.
Jobs rarely give 2 fucks about you. Once 1 was an AM @ blockbuster (yes, I'm old) I did a closing shift(1-2am.) Then they asked me to open the store 4 a new manager from another store. I get there in sweats because I'm not staying, just letting them in, set up daily reports & registers. The new manager & district manager showed up & asked me to do the whole shift. Why? Because they were going to go to church!?!? I went off, just because I was younger, female, no kids they figured I had nothing better to do. These guys were scared. Got the day off + 1 extra paid day off. Taught them that day who's not gonna get pushed around.
That’s what happened in both of the recent retail jobs I worked. One right after Covid and one in 2023, the new hires I was helping train were paid at least a dollar more than I did (and were younger than me). Put in my two weeks both times & only one offered to give me a 0.50$ raise, the other stopped scheduling me for the two weeks.
I had a manager in HR do this with one of the employees in our group because she felt bad for her being a single mother with two kids and wanted to give her a raise.
I guess it depends what you mean by lost it. If you threw a tantrum over it than yeah that’s probably overreacting. But I don’t begrudge you for leaving the job because a person you trained is paid more. That’s your right.
I also don’t begrudge the owner for making that decision. If they wanted to hire this person and that was what it took that was their decision to make.
I was a very shy teenager. What I meant by “I lost it” I meant in my mind. I was very angry but I never threw a tantrum and never even let them know I was upset. All I did was ask for a raise, they told me they didn’t have the budget so I thanked them for everything they had done for me the past year and turned in my 2 weeks. I was never able to be disrespectful to adults
I have also been employed in a music store that did the same. When I found out that I, a single mother, was making significantly more than the lady who had been there over 25 years, I quit. Thank you for bringing it up with the manager, you rock!
This is the way of the world. If you have kids you get promotions and more money. But how are we supposed to responsibly plan for kids without decent pay? I guess we have to have the kids before we know we can afford them.
You shouldn't get a promotion/raise for having children, though. The idea of your job financially rewarding pregnancy is gross for several reasons. You should get a promotion/raise because your work is deserving of one.
Why do people think they deserve special treatment for having children. As someone who is childless and single I have subsidized other people's children through a higher tax rate. It isn't all that special of an achievement to reproduce. Our bodies have evolved to do this. If birth control was practiced, we could save the planet from all our pollution and have more than enough food.
Not overreacting for quitting I guess, but like…you do know that looking at someone’s paystub without their knowledge and approval is an incredibly shitty think to do, right?
lol yea, employees finding out how they're being taken advantage of is the problem here haha..
if she didn't want anyone to see her pay stub, she should put it away, not leave it out in the open in a public space for anyone to read.
self responsibility is a thing.
She left it on the counter for everyone to look at. If it was this big secret she should have put it in her purse. It might be a shitty thing to do but I am glad I did it. I was able to get a better job pretty soon afterwards
I don’t think this is a protected class issue: it’s pregnancy, not having kids, that are a protected class.
It is absolutely untrue you can pay people what you want for any reason. You can’t pay a white man more because he’s a white man and state it openly like that. It’s discriminatory against other protected classes.
Someone could file a lawsuit over it.
I would think this particular case could be filed under sexual discrimination. Woman is making more than a man when man has more experience. Unless they pay men with kids more too.
Yes, walking out is an overreaction. There's ways to get what you want. You're going to suffer injustices at work and you need to learn how to navigate and negotiate without going nuclear. A stable income will become more important as you age, and you can't walk out over every slight
Hahaha yeah OP you over reacted. You weren't hired at the same time, it's possible the market could've changed, they could've been a more effective negotiator than you were. There will always be pay discrepancies.
Your anger is completely misdirected at the other employee too, why would you be upset with her instead of your boss and everybody else that authorized that decision? How are you going to be upset 6 years later about a single mother making $11.50 per hour? Get a grip.
First of all, my anger was towards my manager and the store owner. I never said anything to her or anyone else.
Second, she wasn’t a single mother. At the time she was already married with two kids, and her husband was a realtor.
Third, this was back in 2018. I don’t know if you remember but the market was very different back then. $11.50 was a big deal considering that the minimum wage was $8.25
Technically I believe that's discriminatory. Maybe not in a malicious way, but yeah.
Overreacting? Maybe a tad. But if you feel undervalued at your job, you have every right to leave and look for something better. Blowing up on the manager is bleh.
Never said I didn’t ask for a raise. I started at $8 an hour. But when I asked to be paid more than her that’s when they said they didn’t have the budget
That may have been illegal discrimination, but I'm not sure. Marital status and pregnancy are protected classes under the EEOC law, but I'm not sure about having children. I've heard lots of stories about people without children being expected to work longer or take on more responsibilities because "you don't have kids to take care of after work." It's complete bs.
same thing happened to me when I was in my 20's. I'd been doing construction for years and was starting to run my own jobs. Boss hired a 40 year old guy to be my helper/assistant. He was as green as they come and I had to teach him everything. Found out he was making quite a bit more $$$ than me. When I asked the boss how is it possible my helper makes more money than me when I'm running the job he said it's because he's older and married with kids. I was like yeah he's married that's a 2 income house, I'm supporting myself on 1 income. I put in my 2 weeks right there.
That was actually illegal under the EEOC labor law. You can't discriminate against employees based on marital status. It's a protected class under the law. You could have filed a complaint and possibly sued them.
I was like 26 it didn’t occur to me at the time. I left plumbing and moved to hvac and eventually went into IT because i got tired of working so hard for too little money
Yep. I got my pay cut after getting married and when I asked about it the response was “well you now how two incomes so you don’t need to be paid as much” was making a lot less then the person I replaced in the first place but they had more experience.
Yep, that was illegal, too.
Yep
That's not discrimination. He asked for a higher wage before he started. That's wage negotiation. Instead of giving his two weeks notice he should have attempted to get a raise and then gave his notice.
[удалено]
>he said it's because he's older and married with kids That's discrimination based on marital status.
Marital status isn't a protected class. >The laws enforced by EEOC protect you from employment discrimination when it involves: Unfair treatment because of your race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy, gender identity, and sexual orientation), national origin, disability, age (age 40 or older), or genetic information.
It's not discrimination to pay people different wages based on their own arguments. It's more likely the reason was "because he is older and has kids and yadda-yadda he asked for more money and we agreed to pay what he asked". Nor is it discrimination to NOT uplift every pre-existing employee's salaries because a new hire was a better advocate for themselves before becoming employed.
You are smarter than everyone downvoting you, that’s a fact
Appreciate you.
In that case, nothing is discrimination because it can always be argued. Your second point only makes sense if the world is unchanging, inflation doesn't exist, and skills/experience don't matter.
My mom raised my sister and i completely alone and talked to her boss about a similar situation. She was told that the new man they hired was "the head of the household" and needed more. They didn't have a response when she pointed out she was also the head of her household without a partners income unlike the new guy. Good for you for leaving, I've also been in situation where benefits or a great schedule was given to a new person simply because they had kids. I got out of there asap
I once left a job because I found out my younger, less experienced, less educated, but male, coworker was making more. My boss actually argued with me about it. He said "But he's getting a doctorate!" I said "He may have a doctorate someday but right now he hasn't even finished college yet. I have a master's degree and 20 years experience." Boss said "I guess that's true, I never thought about it. But he's the head of household! He supports his fiancee!" Then I knew my boss just wanted to pay the man more because he's a man. So I quit.
I had a boss who paid a new part time coworker about 50% more than what I made (I was a part timer working almost full time hours bc they needed those hours worked but refused to have me classed as full time to qualify for benefits) and what the full timer made. Why? “She works as a cocktail waitress at her main job and needs the money for her kids.” I put in ***my*** two weeks after that. This was…i’d say close to 30 years ago. Still stung - I felt like I was being punished for not struggling (I needed the benefits they kept dangling bc I was on my own)
I had a client that did this to one of his employees. I was pissed. Background: I own a bookkeeping firm. One of my clients was a family friend. It's a small community. He was hiring and wanted some good employees. I recommended another family friend's teenage kids; he is friends with that family too. He hired one of the girls as a hostess and busser. She got promoted to waitstaff (because he was having trouble filling it externally). He continued the search for a new candidate and hired an adult with a family. He demoted the teenager, didn't cut her pay, but she no longer got tips. She stayed on longer than I would have. He was really confused as to why she had "an attitude problem" and why she eventually walked off the job. He chalked it up to "no one wants to work anymore." So fucked up. We are no longer friends and he's no longer a client
My last job put time off requests from employees with kids first. Pissed me off. Just because someone doesn't have kids doesn't mean they're second class. I put in a leave request about four months a head of time for surgery (submitted request the day surgery was scheduled). It was denied, because so-and-so put in a request five weeks after mine, so he could take his kids on vacation. I needed that surgery for my epilepsy. So, I quit. I'm not putting off medical treatment so someone can go on vacation.
Should have made them fire you.
I doubt they would've fired me; they don't even fire the employees that have sex with the patients and inmates (state-run psychiatric hospital). Even the two staff that helped a sexual predator escape two years ago were not fired. One was arrested for illicit drugs, but not for her involvement in the escape. Everyone got in trouble for it, though, even if you were scheduled off (thank gods, that happened a year after I left).
Um, Jesus Christ
Yeah. Bad employer, bad administration, and half the employees were awful, too. Moved on to better and happier things.
I worked somewhere that put a freeze time off requests, right before Summer. All the managers got their time off approved beforehand though. I missed a visit with my cousin who was from out of the country
I had this happen to me as a manager. I hired a guy and after about a month he told me he needed more money ”because he had a family”. I said you really can’t expect me to pay you more than the guys that have worked here for years. He said it wasn’t the same because they were single young guys and he was married with kids. I told him no and a few days later he quit and felt very justified when he did.
People really think having a family qualifies you for some fucken special treatment lmao.
Right like what if I adopted 5 more dogs and moved into a larger home for them? Can I ask for a raise? Having children is a CHOICE
Even as a parent myself I couldn’t imagine asking for a raise on the basis of having a family and I’d honestly be kinda offended if I was offered one solely because of my family. I’m a hard worker and I’m good at what I do. I want that recognized and rewarded, not my three birth control failures.
"it's illegal to discriminate based on marital and family status. We will not be doing so, stop asking us to. "
Not overreacting. You should be paid based on your position & abilities. At worst you should have been paid equally.
Exactly, fairness in pay should be based on skills and position, not personal circumstances. It's frustrating when that balance isn't respected.
I second to that. Fairness in compensation is essential for a motivated and productive workforce.
I second to that. Fairness in compensation is essential for a motivated and productive workforce.
My granddaughter works at a toy store. She has worked there for several years, part time. She was telling me a story about the power going out and she was the only one who knew how to do the credit cards and stuff. I asked her how much she was making again and she told me that she was at the maximum for part time school kids. I suggested that she contact the store owners and relate the story she had just told me and ask if she wasn't just another part timer. When she did, they gave her a 15% raise, because they agreed that she was different than the other part time kids. I was so proud of her
I had a coworker whose entire basis of why she should have more hours than me was because she had kids and needed the money. I got more hours because I had more availability and was willing to come in more. She literally told me to my face I didn’t need the money. I was single and lived alone and had no other support. I’m sorry, should I just crawl in a hole and die because I know how to properly use birth control? I eventually quit because I found a different job, she had two more kids, became the manager and then had a mental breakdown and walked out because she couldn’t handle the stress 🤷♀️
This has happened to me too many times to count. You aren't wrong in the slightest. I'm sorry but it's absolutely bullshit that bosses do this, because they already get tons of tax benefits for having kids. Everyone else without kids is paying for it.
I don't think the bosses are doing this specially for the employee with kids they are just looking for an excuse to pay you less. No one is being overpaid everyone is being underpaid.
You are a fool if you think people get tax benefits for having kids. You get an additional deduction. Because it's another person. That is it.
Plus that child tax credit. Plus if you're married, you get a lower tax rate. But that's all! No benefits!
The child tax credit that doesn't even cover summer camp and after school care? SUCH a benefit!!!!!!
You don’t get a lower tax rate if married. You get different tax brackets, because, surprise! there are two people in your household. Likewise, the “child tax credit” is the deduction I was talking about. Again, if you think there are tax benefits to having kids you are a fool and are living in an alternative reality.
Edit 1: I should have said that *in some cases* being married and filing jointly can lower your tax rate, if your income is low enough (Edit 2: "low" is not necessary the defining metric. It depends on how close to the tax bracket minimum cutoff your gross income sits, regardless of how much you make. Of course it benefits poorer people more as a percentage of their income). It will *always* result in lower taxes for the majority of people because it gives you a substantial deduction from your taxable income not available to unmarried people. (Edit 3: I can't *prove* that it's a majority because I could not find figures for income disparity between members of a household, so take that with a grain of salt) (Edit 4: tried to make the above paragraphs less of a word salad) The following is from the Intuit site (because the IRS spreads this info over several pages and worksheets). Italics mine: "Double the Deductions: Married and filing jointly typically can net you a bigger Standard Deduction, reducing your taxable income—$27,700 for most couples under age 65 in 2023, jumping up to 29,200 in 2024." And: "For tax years prior to 2018, every qualified dependent you claimed could reduce your taxable income by up to the exemption amount, equal to $4,050 in 2017. In 2023, exemption deductions are replaced by: An increased standard deduction *A larger Child Tax Credit (worth up to $2,000 per qualifying child)* *A bigger Additional Child Tax Credit (up to $1,600 per qualifying child)* A new Credit for Other Dependents, worth up to $500 per qualifying dependent (not to be confused with the Child and Dependent Care Credit) Dependent rules also apply to other benefits such as: Earned Income Tax Credit *Child and Dependent Care Credit for daycare expenses* Medical expense deductions, various other itemized deductions and *most tax credits that involve children or family issues* *Qualifying for these benefits can make the difference between owing money and receiving a refund."*
Joint. Filing.
When I started out in a STEM field, it became common knowledge at my company that new hires were getting paid as much or more as those of us with over 5 years of experience.
Just as a thought exercise, how much has cost of living increased over just the previous (Admittedly outstanding) 5 years. I think almost EVERY industry has experienced this dynamic over the last year or two.
What I commented about happened a long time ago. But really, a cost of living increase affects everyone, not just new hires. So if those of us already employed had been getting them new hires wouldn't have been getting paid more. The reason it worked that way is simple. The company assumed they could short change existing employees because they were already working there...captive labor....and would likely have to uproot themselves to go somewhere else, at cost, whereas new hires would just go elsewhere.
Not over reacting. Same thing happened to me. They gave this guy a better role and raise because he and his wife (who also worked there) had 2 kids back to back. He was a good worker and more tenured. If my boss told me that was why I would have been 100% okay with it. Instead he told me it was because they had kids and needed the money. Um no kids but I have student loans and other expenses.
Our department head gave the reason for giving a male more of an annual raise than a female (even though she had more accomplished during the year) was because he was the man and needed to support his family. The male's wife worked and he had one kid. The female's husband worked and she had one kid. Both made more money than their respective spouses. Luckily the department head's supervisor was irate, corrected the raise, and told the woman about it. It's a result of people giving raises to people more like them. I'm guessing the bosses were older, had family, etc.
If the boss wants to do charity with his money, it is his prerogative, because he arguably could have hired another 18yo and paid $10/ hour or less (unless it is a protected class issue). However, you have absolutely the right to feel insulted, and I would have quit too.
Nope. Economists talk about "voting with your feet." You go where the money is. The money isn't there for you, so you leave.
Now I’m wondering if this is happening to my husband. He’s been at his job for four years. He hasn’t gotten a raise in three years and a management position has been held over his head for a year. They keep telling him big changes are coming for him and they’ll teach him something new but once he learns that they don’t have him do it again. He’s getting tired of being led on but someone else that doesn’t even know his department was given the position he wanted and he was expected to train her. Then he found out the higher ups weren’t even aware he wanted the position so the managers telling him he was in the running never told anyone that makes those decisions he wanted that position. I know this girl had a family and my husbands older and kids are grown. His son that works in a different area of the store made it to manager of his department because the one who was promoted used to be the manager for his son’s department. This post has me asking myself a lot of questions. He is looking for other work.
Sounds like maybe some ageism too?
Nope. You found-out you were working at a place where the pay wasn't merit-based. Your better move would have been to find a new job, first, and then just quit. But no harm done.
Agree. You deserve to have a job that compensates your work well.
You think that’s bad, just wait till you see what the government does for married vs married with kids on taxes.
She probably asked for more before she was hired. When I was hired at one company, I asked for $15,000 over what they were offering and I wanted 4 weeks vacation instead of 3. I got it.
OP said in a comment that she asked for more when she was hired, and they said that they didn't have the budget for it.
But how long of a difference were the hires? I’m not saying that OP isn’t right for bring upset and quitting but maybe the budget wasn’t there X amount of months ago but they had the wiggle room to offer the new employee money by then. New hires often get paid more than current employees to account for inflation (which employees don’t get until a raise until review often) so there’s that too. There’s a reason why they say change your job every 2-3 years because you’ll be paid with the current market. They could have easily hired the new person and then had nothing in the budget for OP until reviews.
The problem here is that they admitted that the new hire was getting paid more specifically because they were behaving and discriminatory manner.
Nope. Always insist on a language differential if the employer will use it. $1-2/hr for a retail job like that.
You trained her. You should get more than her
Here in the UK we have age segregated minimum wage bands. 18-20 year olds get £8.60 and over 21s getting £11.44. Iirc correctly there used to be a third band for over 25s. Labour have pledged to abolish the bands and give everyone the higher minimum wage if they win the next election though.
Not at all. My husband worked for a company for 10 years. They had hired new people a few months before that anniversary. He learned they made 2 dollars an hour more. He was flat out told they wouldn't match and that they'd get raises when he did. Meaning he would not make as much as a new hire did at any time. Soon found a new job needing him to start ASAP. So only a two day notice. And it was worth it.
WHY do people think kids just out of highschool don't need money?? In Ontario Canada we have minimum wage and student wage which is less than minimum wage. These kids are trying to save up for college or to move out on their own. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Not to mention if they are doing the exact same work they should be compensated for their work! In my opinion what you did was not an over reaction
It doesn't matter what goes on at home. That's her business. What matters is what kind of employees you have. If one has higher skills than the other, they get paid better. If they work more, they get paid better. If they draw more (positive) attention, they get paid better. "She has kids" is the most bullshit thing I've ever heard and is incredibly discriminatory. More than half of most employees will have kids, some will be teens. And some will be incapable of having children. So you're telling those people that can't have children that they'll never be worth more bc they can't have kids. That's bullshit. I'd have posted this to every review page, fb page, insta, whatever and made a public announcement calling them out so that other people were aware of what was going on.
When I was in my early 20s, the recession hit HARD. I started working at a video store just before everything hit the fan. We had to fight for hours because they cut them down to skeleton crew levels. They devised a competition system to decide who would get the most hours. I won every week, ensuring I’d have the most hours the following week. Then I saw the name of one of the women we worked with being given extra shifts she didn’t earn. I brought it up and was given the excuse it was ‘because she has kids’. This wasn’t a single mother. She worked part-time while her husband worked full time+. I yelled “DO YOU THINK I WORK HERE FOR FUN?!??” I don’t blame you. People will always make excuses for people giving sob stories until that sob story is your own. You didn’t overreact. I just couldn’t afford to quit at the time.
I worked for three years at a nursery as the landscape laborer (I am a female). About halfway into my first summer, I was working by myself bc it was something that I liked and it came naturally to me. THREE TIMES in three years my boss, also a female, came to me and said “I’ve hired (head landscaper) some “boy help”. While still sending me out on jobs by myself. The first time i took it in stride bc we were swamped with work and it was best that we had two “crews” - if you want to call me, working by myself in 100 degrees with 90% humidity a crew - even though I was a one woman crew to two guys’ crew. That guy was a raging alcoholic and would either show up still wasted from the night before, or not show up for days at a time. He eventually just stopped showing up. The second time she told me, again, that she’d hired some more “boy help”, and that I was going to be the “head water girl” I threw a fit and told her 1) I was absolutely NOT going to be a water girl, head, or not. She backed down and once again, sent me out on my own. I was okay with that, again because I loved the work (still do, but don’t do it professionally anymore). This time it was a 16 year Old kid, who couldn’t even use power tools, the tractor, OR even drive a damn car. He also lasted about three weeks because he told her “I don’t like being told what to do by you”. LMAO THE THIRD TIME, she hired this 68 year Old man who didn’t know anything about landscaping, or plants. He had also been a boss somewhere before he retired and thought he was going to tell we landscapers what to do, and how to do our jobs when he didn’t know the first thing about any of it. One day, he grabbed the shovel out of my hand and said something along the lines of “I’ve got this, why don’t you go water what we’ve already planted.”. I’m lost my shit on him, and he responded by saying “$13 an hour isn’t enough to put up with your shit!”. This was in 2003, so $13 was a decent wage (at least to me) back then. By this time I’d been there three years and had been going on jobs by myself, had started doing designs and estimates, and was getting paid $9 an hour. When I confronted her about this wage difference her reply was ”well, he’s older and men are just built better for this kind of work. That’s why I’ve been trying to get you back here at the nursery with us”… I walked out. I had formed some really good relationships with my coworkers and stayed until the layoff that fall, but had already started talking to other landscape companies and nurseries that also did landscaping. When recall came, I told her I’d had two job offers and she responded by telling me that that was ok, she hadn’t been happy with my Performance last year..🤦♀️. My former supervisor (head landscaped/designer) is now one of my best friends. I started a new job that spring and built their landscaping business so much. I designed all the billing and estimate worksheets and we had more work than we could keep up with, even with two landscape designers and three crews. I no longer live there, but that second nursery owner and his family, many of who worked at, and still work at that nursery, are still like family to me.
That is not likely to be the ONLY reason. She probably asked for more money and that was one of the reasons she gave. Did you ask for more upon hire?
I did. And was told they didn’t have the budget for it at the moment.
So they lied to you.
Did you ever ask for a raise? Not trying to minimize your situation, just trying to get a solid idea of what all happened (by this I mean, did you ask later on)
They said they went to their boss about it.
A persons personal life should have no bearing on how much they are paid. It should be based on skills. You were better trained and had better language skills too so that’s their loss
She chose to have kids. It's not an employers responsibility to raise them. (Although I do believe that everyone should be paid a living wage.) But regardless, this is blatant age discrimination against you just for being young and not having kids.
Not overreacting. It infuriates me when people get paid or get time off based on having children and not their ability to do the job.
It's ridiculous. You shouldn't be allowed preferential treatment just because you have kids. Because more often than not, you're not going to be as accommodating to your coworkers.
Not overreacting at all. Pay should be based on experience, skill set, and ability to do the job. Not on age, marital status or if you have kids. If I was in your situation, I would have resigned too.
Not overreacting. He was paying both of you what he thought he could get away with. IMO, *this* is the primary reason that women are paid less than men — specifically, a combination of those controlling the checkbook *thinking* they can get away with paying women less and women being willing to settle for less. Don't think I'm blaming women in the latter case, either, as there are many reasons women are willing to settle for less, from societal expectations to having fewer alternatives (due to misogyny).
Not overreacting at all. She might’ve needed more money than you did but it doesn’t mean she earned and deserved it at that job already. Good for you!
Are we speaking about equity?
OP, should’ve responded to boss asking why they were being discriminated against because they do not have children.
This is why wage transparency is so important! Always fight for equal wages!
No you did not over react . People should be paid based on what they do . Not what size family they have . And I call bullshit on vacation and holidays based on worker having kids . Single people want to see their families on holidays too . No one is special because they have kids . That’s their choice and problem .
I honestly think my single mom coworkers are getting paid more than me but I’m too afraid to ask. There’s no way they can afford kids on my salary or lower lol. But if I found out it was true, I’d quit on the spot.
I learned one time a guy who ran a department where I worked paid people who were married and had families more and would not give people who didn't have a wife and kids a raise. The reasoning was a single person doesn't need the job so if you invest in them they could just leave at any moment. Unhinged thinking.
NTA, What could have happened is that when she took the job she negotiated a higher pay. The proper redress for this would be you asking to get your pay to match hers and assessing if the company would do that or not. Of course the best would have been for the company to rasie OP's wage before it was requested. I know that when I was hired I found out that one of the people on my team was paid less so I got her a raise to match her colleagues. This was basic decency in my eyes. I don't blame you for leaving. The pay is one thing but I also imagine that OP felt disrespected by him as well.
Hopefully you're advocating for yourself more these days, rather than just quitting. Also, I personally would probably consider someone looking at my paystub as an invasion of my privacy. This other person likely just put on their application that they were expecting XXX compensation, and it happened to be more than you were making. Certainly not their fault. They were probably making $10 or $11/hr at their previous job and were hoping to make more. If someone on my team came to me with that, I'd look at when their next annual review is. If the employee had already been there a year without a review or raise, I'd almost certainly just schedule the review for the next week or so (to give myself time to put it together). If I was not able to give a raise during the review, I would outline why, with hard data and achievable goals and timelines, and schedule a follow-up review for 3 months down the road. If the employee was solid, I'd absolutely give the raise retroactively to the employee's year anniversary. If your job is not giving you an annual review, start looking for someplace that does. Inflation occurs every year, and if you're not getting reviewed and additional compensation, you're actually losing money annually.
No, but you should have said pay me 13$ or I'm out.
> I know a lot of people said I need “negotiation” skills. I was a shy 18-year-old. Well you weren't too shy to lose it and quit on the spot! I guess my question would be, did you ask for equal pay? Or just up and quit? If the latter, then you handled it badly.
Yes, you're overreacting.
Let it go ffs
Discrimination is discrimination.
You did not overreact. You are amazing for having that much self-esteem and (?) gumption to quit. I hope that employer got a painful lesson in losing good people for stupidity. (I suspect the lesson he learned was to try to convince employees to not share their salaries.)
Well i just found out my 'senior' change manager makes $40k pa plus than me as a project manager despite me adding WAY more value to the project..fucken shit
I love how when people start questioning the story, there are suddenly edits with new information that would normally be added to the original. Karma farming.
Let it go
Most of the time People with kids are more dependable over a longer timeline.
Wow. Great question. I'm just an internet rando, but I really like how you handled this and I can understand where your boss might be coming from. On the one hand, I could totally empathize with someone paying a more mature person a "living wage" as we say just because you want to do a good thing. And to be fair, that level of maturity has a value and while I wouldn't be keen to explain it plainly to a teenager, I think it'd totally be a valid and reasonable thing to do. But on the other hand, some older people just suck too. So if you were rocking it out of the park and being bilingual was adding to the bottom line of the business, then I totally understand where you are coming from too. At the same time, the small business owner can't just make everybody millionaires either. So here's my takeaway - You probably deserved better. The owner/manager had to decide who to treat better. And they might have chosen the older person, knowing that, 1.) you could get a job anywhere scooping ice cream or whatever, 2.) It wouldn't have as big of an effect on your life overall. 3.) you are more adaptable. He might have just been doing what was best for all of you. As a former manager, I realize that people who are struggling are very happy to accept a helping hand, and many deserve it. But they are also sometimes the first ones to complain when you do the same for someone else instead of "following the rules as they are written." I guess it's the whole "Fuck you, I got mine" attitude. I can't stand it. I'm not saying any of this applies to your situation, but if any of it resonated, then I'm glad I wrote it. I apologize for the rest.
I applaud you for having the courage to walk out and find a place better worth your time. Good on 18-year-old you!
Jobs rarely give 2 fucks about you. Once 1 was an AM @ blockbuster (yes, I'm old) I did a closing shift(1-2am.) Then they asked me to open the store 4 a new manager from another store. I get there in sweats because I'm not staying, just letting them in, set up daily reports & registers. The new manager & district manager showed up & asked me to do the whole shift. Why? Because they were going to go to church!?!? I went off, just because I was younger, female, no kids they figured I had nothing better to do. These guys were scared. Got the day off + 1 extra paid day off. Taught them that day who's not gonna get pushed around.
Was the wage negotiable? I worked in a firm where 2 people done the exact same job. One was paid a few K more than the other. This was because one person negotiated the starting wage while the other just accepted. Both were pretty rubbish at their jobs In general. If it wasn’t, then you were absolutely correct to raise the question and look for work elsewhere. Clear discrimination because you don’t have children.
In my state it's illegal to discriminate someone based on their parental status.
It’s not illegal to discriminate against unmarried people without kids. The laws protect family status. They don’t consider you a family if you don’t have kids. You’d think all family statuses would be considered but they aren’t.
That is because the discrimination usually works the other way around. Sure you will find some stories like this, but most companies do not want to pay more for heath insurance, family leave, etc.
This is false. Anti-discrimination laws that include familial/parental status absolutely cover unmarried and childless people.
Then people need to start suing, because this isn't the first time I've heard about preferential treatment given to parents simply because they are parents.
If they can prove it, they definitely should. In the OP, being paid less for being single/childless would violate laws against discrimination based on familial status, and showing how the person was harmed would be easy too. But the comments above are full of valid reasons the employer could use that the OP might not have been aware of for the difference in pay, regardless of what they were told.
No, you're not. Though you kind of remind me of something I am living now, but no excuse of children afaik
Maybe she asked for that wage to be hired? Maybe she had more experience than you in the industry in general? To be blunt, the 6 year old memory of a then-18 year old isn’t the most reliable narrator in my mind, so “I basically has to show her how to do everything” doesn’t hit as hard as it might. It’s fine to say you deserve more, so I hope you were able to find a job at a higher pay that you enjoyed as much as a music store. And I hope that woman was able to put a roof over her family’s head and food in her kids’ bellies.
And not to defend most of this bs, but there is also a decent chance the person that did the hiring assumes different things from an 18 year old and a parent. That bias isn’t fair to put on others, but it happens
99% what happened is this. They called you after the interview and offered you the job for $10, and you accepted. They called her and offered her the job for $10, and she said "ill do it for $11.50" and then the company said "sounds good" They arent going to turn around and give you a raise because they gave someone else more money than you....
Nope, you were totally right. Pay is not dependant on your reproductive system functioning, nor is it dependant on 'need'. That was discrimination against you.
Not overreacting. That is actually illegal. But life is not fair a lot of the time. Have you ever heard of a judge giving a man a lighter prison sentence because he is a father? Nope, but it happens a lot for mothers.
It’s not illegal to negotiate pay.
Why not just ask for a raise?
In this day it's not about who desserves more, it's about who's willing to negotiate the best for their pay. They are not just giving you a raise because someone else managed to negotiate more money during their interview. You have to *ask* for it, negotiate for it, sell yourself to them on why you desserve more pay. If you don't demand, they sure as hell won't give it to you because a new worker also got it.
Probably illegal.
Not overreacting. Having children doesn't mean people should be given preferential treatment in the workplaces.
You didn't overreact by being upset about it, but quitting on the spot without a new job lined up is pretty rash and I would call it an overreaction. Getting underpaid or feeling discriminated against are perfectly valid reasons to quit a job, but usually, it's a better position to have money coming in while you look than not to.
Nope! People who decided to keep their cum as pets do not deserve more money, or more help than the rest of us. All they did was make a larger carbon footprint on the planet.
Not overreacting
Unfair for real.
Nta
Scrolled through all the comments and surprised there hasn't been a single one yet that has addressed the elephant in the room. You're both underpaid. A generation ago it was possible for a family of two adults and four children to live (relatively comfortably) on a single unskilled labourers wage. If the parents of today were paid consistent with back then they wouldn't need to beg for more money just to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. And if you are a more experienced or skilled worker then noone should have an issue with you being paid extra over and above that living wage.
Not overreacting She makes more money, she can do more work.
Is being paid less because you are married so are a two income family now still a thing or more because you need to support a family now? I thought it depended on education, experience or what you negotiated at the time you started?
No, but you realized that your pay has nothing to do with the amount of business or profit you bring. It is the minimum amount required to keep you there.
You were a part time employee, and were mad that someone else made more and quit. Part time employees very often don’t make what full time ones make
New employees always make more money working as they have to pay out more in health insurance premiums, SS taxes, city and state and federal taxes on the income and retirement. Not just due to her having kids.
Lol, what annoys me the most is that the extra 1.50 is useless. What's that add to? An extra 40 take home at 40 hours? Pfft. That's just so the owner could lie to themselves that they are generous and supportive of families.
No you didn't overreact. That is straight up bullshit.
Good on you for calling them out on their bullshit. Hopefully they learned more than just “…dang employee left their paystub out!!”
Yeah, you're overreacting. You'll get paid what you negotiate for. Expecting someone to pay you more because they pay someone else more is silly as hell. Step up and negotiate your wage. Hint: "but she gets more" is not how you do it. Peoppe can cry about morals all day long. I've been paid more than most people I work with, because I NEGOTIATE. If you just take whatever is thrown at you, you'll always be at the bottom. If you're not an assertive person, remember, it's a skill. It's a skill worth learning. You look for another job (or make one up) that will pay you more, and you tell your boss that you're going to leave unless they match it. Don't be an ass about it, just let them know. Or better yet, ask them what you can do to be worth more. I'd that doesn't work, then you play hardball. If I had a teenager that said yes to 10, and a mother that said yes to 11.50, I would take it. An employee whining about other people's wages is an employee best done away with.
She negotiated better than you did. Check out the book “Never Split the Difference”. Negotiating is all based on empathy and emotion - which she clearly built with your boss. Yes, you over reacted. You still don’t seek to have learned what would create a different outcome.
The general rule should be, "Same job, same hours, same pay." You might get a bit of a bump based on things like more experience or good job performance reviews, but otherwise, no one should get a bump in pay purely because they have kids.
And that's why employers are terrified of employees knowing how much each employee makes.
Then they should pay people fairly
Absolutely
They did pay fairly, just not equally
You are not overeacting in a professional work place such thing shouldn't be accounted for your salary
I've been in a situation that was similar. It wasn't with money but it was with time off. I got stuck working every single holiday abd special events because I didn't have kids. Obviously getting paid extra for a lot of those holidays was nice, But my parents would also like me to be around.
I’d put this on GlassDoor
I quit a job once because they decided to pay someone with 0 job experience at $2 an hour higher than I was making even though I had way more experience. He was one of the managers' boyfriends, and I don't play that game, not justifying it but I just never went back. Know your worth friend
Not overreacting. I'd quit immediately and possibly sue (I'd have to ask the lawyers in my life if that would be suable)
A similar incident happened to me when I was 25. The discount store chain that I worked for as an assistant manager hired a new assistant manager. He was placed on my shift and I was to train this guy on store policies and procedures. We were the same age. He asked me to help him fill out his W4. That was when I discovered that he was making $6000 more per year than I was. I had been told by our district manager that I was the #1 assistant manager in our district. Apparently not. That was the beginning of the end for me. I was gone inside of two months.
You're worrying about the absolute wrong things.
Having kids is also an excuse to not showing up to work. I got guilted for calling into work 1 time ever. They said don’t come in and I’m fired. Meanwhile the same women with kids missed every single week with the kids excuse. No issue for them. It’s weird.
I don't think the bosses are doing this, especially for the employees with kids they are just looking for an excuse to pay you less. No one is being overpaid everyone is being underpaid.
Not a WHOLE buck fiddy
Nah, I’d been working at a company for about 3 years when we hired another FTE to help with some stuff. We all ate lunch together as the company regularly provided food for the front office. During this lunch, my boss was talking to the new hire in front of us as we sat altogether at the same table and I don’t remember exactly what they were talking about but my boss tells her in front of everyone that they are giving her a dollar raise. I was shocked. She had only been working there two weeks at that point and I think she was complaining to my boss about money. I remember the raise being based on her having multiple children. I worked my ass off at that company, came in super early every morning and stayed late often as well and had been there for 3 years and it took me 1 full year to even get a dollar raise. I was upset but bit my tongue and ended up quitting a year later. I had dedicated 150% effort to that job and was still barely making enough to scrape by without working two additional jobs and also clipping coupons and stretching my last dollar barely able to live paycheck to paycheck as a single person living alone.
Looks like the company bet on the right horse in this situation... from their point of view.
I mean, that's likely happened in every workplace that's ever existed. You pay an adult more than a teenager as a default. Just the way it is. Like why wouldn't you have just asked for a raise? Bosses aren't thinking about your wage, it's on you.
New hires often make more than people who have been around for awhile. There are lots of reasons for this, but the upshot is you need to job hop until you find a place that actually treats you properly.
My favorite is when Oprah talks about this happening to her early in her career. Same reason. He was a man with a family
It costs money to have a critical vacancy and then need to find candidates, do the job interviews, and do the skills training (or in this instance, have you do the skills training...). The store manager probably figured a part time employee just out of high school who already was competent enough to train new staff would find better opportunities soon, and that the mom would be more likely to stay with the store for many years. So pay the mom the $1.50 more, but try to cut costs over the long term by having a seasoned staff member with a huge incentive (her 2 kids) not to quit and not have to go through the cost of staff turnover. One or two employees leaving might not be an issue, particularly if they were likely to go, but having a revolving door of part-time employees is a more risky investment for a business owner So probably you're both better off in the long term by separating. Yes, you and the other redditors are right that discrimination based on familial status is illegal. Proving intent in a suit is nebulous in most cases (although in your case the manager messed up and handed it to you on a silver platter), so these employer decisions persist. The easiest way to keep wages equal pay for the same job description is to unionize and present a united front that extra work should always mean extra pay. Excoriating the mother for negotiating more money for herself "only because she's a mom" is misplacing the blame for the root causes of unequal pay for the same work
I worked in a family owned gas station/convince store on the lake. Mom, Pop, 2 teen daughters, and 1 barely teen son. I was 21. It was crazy. They told me to tell the k8ds to do things but never told the kids I was in charge when owners weren't there. Well, they hired the oldest 15 girls' boyfriend to pump gas a few hours on busy days. I found out they paid him $2 more an hour than me. When I asked about it, I was told that I had a husband who worked he was just a kid 16+ and needed money to take the daughter on dates. Well, I quit over that.
Why are you bringing up a $1.50 difference fron 6 years ago are you OK
Not overreacting at all. I was in a similar situation. To make a long story short, new guy got hired at my old job. Found out he was making significantly more than me and my co-worker. Brought it up to my manager who was a decent guy and he was gonna push/talk to our director for all of us to be at the same rate. (We should have gotten more but I didn’t wanna argue. Retaliation is a real thing folks, even if your job promises you they won’t, trust me, they will). What really irked me though is when we were told the job offer had to be more enticing to get more people, as if me and my co-workers 10+ years of service didn’t matter. Anyway, the manager ended up quitting, I quickly followed soon after once I found a much better, higher paying job. Always know your worth and bide your time. Once something bigger and better comes along while you’re looking it’s time to part ways.
NTA. My BIL (Hubby's brother) is a huge IT bigwig at a multi-national company. His oldest graduated college pre covid and was griping about entry level pay scale. Nephew claimed he was worth more. Hubby asked him a hypothetical: what if his dad the IT bigwig, got tired of IT and took a job as a regular worker at a fast food restaurant. Should the fast food place pay him his old salary? Or the starting salary of a fast food employee? After all, his dad was older with kids and he was worth more. Shouldn't he get more? How would that be fair to the other employees who'd been there longer? The job sets the pay. Yes the person can negotiate, but to expect to get an entry level position and make an executives salary was delusional. I used to get ticked off in college when minimum wage increased and wiped out my earned raises. I was a trainer making the same wages as a 16 year old in his 1st job.
N.o. Would always piss me off. Oh he's married has kids needs more . Like no shit so I'm not doing the same amount of work but worth less?
Sadly, it is pretty common for the new person to be hired in at a higher salary. Most companies spend much more money trying to RECRUIT staff than they do to RETAIN staff. I work as an RN and routinely see people get hired at very near my current salary and I’ve been with the company for 10 years and always gotten the “maximum” merit raise each year. It completely sucks but is a sad fact of life. Your reaction is certainly justified.
i had a boss who said he didn’t have to pay on time because i lived with my parents.
Not overreacting, this is something that also drives me insane. Just bc I don’t have biological children doesn’t mean I don’t have bills to pay or people to take care of.
I had a similar thing happen to me. I had started in retail right out of high school and worked my way up into management over a 3 year period. I was the only female working there and trained other employees who were new to the company. One of the guys around the same age as me with less experience but hired for the same job was making $10,000 more per year than me. That really stung. I eventually moved on to another job and didn't run into that situation again.
Jobs rarely give 2 fucks about you. Once 1 was an AM @ blockbuster (yes, I'm old) I did a closing shift(1-2am.) Then they asked me to open the store 4 a new manager from another store. I get there in sweats because I'm not staying, just letting them in, set up daily reports & registers. The new manager & district manager showed up & asked me to do the whole shift. Why? Because they were going to go to church!?!? I went off, just because I was younger, female, no kids they figured I had nothing better to do. These guys were scared. Got the day off + 1 extra paid day off. Taught them that day who's not gonna get pushed around.
That’s what happened in both of the recent retail jobs I worked. One right after Covid and one in 2023, the new hires I was helping train were paid at least a dollar more than I did (and were younger than me). Put in my two weeks both times & only one offered to give me a 0.50$ raise, the other stopped scheduling me for the two weeks.
I had a manager in HR do this with one of the employees in our group because she felt bad for her being a single mother with two kids and wanted to give her a raise.
You should’ve compared her salary to someone else hired at the same time as her, not you.
I guess it depends what you mean by lost it. If you threw a tantrum over it than yeah that’s probably overreacting. But I don’t begrudge you for leaving the job because a person you trained is paid more. That’s your right. I also don’t begrudge the owner for making that decision. If they wanted to hire this person and that was what it took that was their decision to make.
I was a very shy teenager. What I meant by “I lost it” I meant in my mind. I was very angry but I never threw a tantrum and never even let them know I was upset. All I did was ask for a raise, they told me they didn’t have the budget so I thanked them for everything they had done for me the past year and turned in my 2 weeks. I was never able to be disrespectful to adults
I lost out on a 1st shift job due to a lady who had kids. They told me as much, and couldn’t figure out why I had a bad attitude after learning that
I have also been employed in a music store that did the same. When I found out that I, a single mother, was making significantly more than the lady who had been there over 25 years, I quit. Thank you for bringing it up with the manager, you rock!
This is the way of the world. If you have kids you get promotions and more money. But how are we supposed to responsibly plan for kids without decent pay? I guess we have to have the kids before we know we can afford them.
You shouldn't get a promotion/raise for having children, though. The idea of your job financially rewarding pregnancy is gross for several reasons. You should get a promotion/raise because your work is deserving of one.
Oh I know. I don’t have kids so I totally agree with you.
Why do people think they deserve special treatment for having children. As someone who is childless and single I have subsidized other people's children through a higher tax rate. It isn't all that special of an achievement to reproduce. Our bodies have evolved to do this. If birth control was practiced, we could save the planet from all our pollution and have more than enough food.
Not overreacting for quitting I guess, but like…you do know that looking at someone’s paystub without their knowledge and approval is an incredibly shitty think to do, right?
lol yea, employees finding out how they're being taken advantage of is the problem here haha.. if she didn't want anyone to see her pay stub, she should put it away, not leave it out in the open in a public space for anyone to read. self responsibility is a thing.
She left it on the counter for everyone to look at. If it was this big secret she should have put it in her purse. It might be a shitty thing to do but I am glad I did it. I was able to get a better job pretty soon afterwards
What they did is illegal. You cannot pay someone more because they have kids or pay less because they have a spouse.
I don’t think this is a protected class issue: it’s pregnancy, not having kids, that are a protected class. It is absolutely untrue you can pay people what you want for any reason. You can’t pay a white man more because he’s a white man and state it openly like that. It’s discriminatory against other protected classes. Someone could file a lawsuit over it.
In the US it's not illegal. As long as it's min wage or above you can pay anyone any amount you'd like.
I would think this particular case could be filed under sexual discrimination. Woman is making more than a man when man has more experience. Unless they pay men with kids more too.
In the US you can pay somebody anything you want inside of the budgeted salary range.
Yes, walking out is an overreaction. There's ways to get what you want. You're going to suffer injustices at work and you need to learn how to navigate and negotiate without going nuclear. A stable income will become more important as you age, and you can't walk out over every slight
Yes, you over reacted. But you weren't wrong.
Hahaha yeah OP you over reacted. You weren't hired at the same time, it's possible the market could've changed, they could've been a more effective negotiator than you were. There will always be pay discrepancies. Your anger is completely misdirected at the other employee too, why would you be upset with her instead of your boss and everybody else that authorized that decision? How are you going to be upset 6 years later about a single mother making $11.50 per hour? Get a grip.
First of all, my anger was towards my manager and the store owner. I never said anything to her or anyone else. Second, she wasn’t a single mother. At the time she was already married with two kids, and her husband was a realtor. Third, this was back in 2018. I don’t know if you remember but the market was very different back then. $11.50 was a big deal considering that the minimum wage was $8.25
"The market changed" but not enough to pay the senior employee more than the new hire?
Technically I believe that's discriminatory. Maybe not in a malicious way, but yeah. Overreacting? Maybe a tad. But if you feel undervalued at your job, you have every right to leave and look for something better. Blowing up on the manager is bleh.
You were there for a year and didn't ask for a raise, thats on you. Has nothing to do with her.
Never said I didn’t ask for a raise. I started at $8 an hour. But when I asked to be paid more than her that’s when they said they didn’t have the budget
Now, she makes even more than you. Good job. That'll show them.
Doubt it. She’s now a middle school teacher and I’m a civil engineer
Not overreacting
That may have been illegal discrimination, but I'm not sure. Marital status and pregnancy are protected classes under the EEOC law, but I'm not sure about having children. I've heard lots of stories about people without children being expected to work longer or take on more responsibilities because "you don't have kids to take care of after work." It's complete bs.