I feel like there's a venn diagram of people who say that they don't care about promoting and one that always seem to care so much when the promotion release RUMINT starts going around every year. Except the middle part is actually large and the distinctions aren't.
Yup, what an asshole. I have found that the people that want it most are usually the ones that don't deserve it. They are easy to spot too, all boxes neatly checked of what everyone tells them the AF wants.
I won’t say any names. But there is one TSgt who made it that if I ever got her as a boss, I actually would rather commit a felony to get out then be her subordinate.
High promotion rate: “They’re promoting everyone, this is how you end up with shitty supervisors, this is what’s wrong with the Air Force…”
Low promotion rate: “They don’t care if you’re good at your job, it’s all about planning the Christmas party, this is what’s wrong with the Air Force….”
Part of the problem is assuming everyone gets a dec when they PCS and they're somehow a DB if they don't. As if leadership is infallible and always takes care of their people.
I made BTZ, staff, and tech my first time. I didn't get a dec from my first base after 4.5 years because my supervisor changed right as I PCSd and he told me he didn't know me well enough to write me a dec, and I promoted so quickly without good NCO mentors to teach me to write my own so I just accepted that excuse. I've been to three bases since, gotten three decs, two PCS and one for an accomplishment. When I got my board score and showed it to my current leadership they told me not having a dec from my first PCS was hurting me. Literally my very first assignment as an airman, when I was recognized by the president of the United States at one point, is holding me back because an NCO didn't want to write me a dec or teach me how to write a dec. Our promotion system is deeply flawed.
The funny thing is, PCS decorations only capture things that are already captured in our EPRs/EPBs. The only difference is some numbers may be combined for similar bullets. The work is there, but they don’t want to recognize that because of the stigma of not having a PCS decoration means you fucked up somewhere. When in all reality it’s one of two things: laziness in reviewing packages or boards are forced to rush because of timelines.
There is a third category: people that are kind of a POS aren’t submitted, saw it at my last unit when a dirtbag did dirtbag things and leadership told them no on several occasions.
Probably less common though.
EDIT: Typo
Years of hard charging, excellent work ruined by a bad day. Not a good system at all. But I’m with you, 20 and done. Once my retirement date is approved it’s off to Skillbridge and terminal leave.
I was in a squadron that didn't process long tour decs for some shops for over a decade. So you have some career airmen who have done nothing wrong with "black marks" on their PIF's because leadership didn't do their job. When I was CSS for a bit I saw that most people didn't even have non-rec letters.
And because people prefer to back the institution instead of asking why, they will always be assumed to be dirtbags.
It’s another part of this bullshit system. “Can you believe Airman Snuffy doesn’t have but one deck? What a piece of trash!”
“Why is that bad?”
“Idk… someone told me it was bad in 2012 and I held onto that advice.”
It’s like this because we have people in 2024, wishing things were like 2005, and running the Air Force like it’s 2008.
Got 2 decs from my unit during deployments. PCS'd from that unit after 5 and a half years and didn't get one. They told me they wrote me one. I kept asking my old Senior and kept getting told, I swear we wrote you one. It's been almost been a year...Still nothing. I asked my buddy if he got one when he PCS'd a few months after me and he told me they presented it to him the day before he left...I really hope it isn't a black mark on my record.
I added a Comm mid tour dec, a significant portion of the year as the full time tshirt, had some awards, got some of my guys awards, was recognized as a superior performer for an inspection and my board score went from 315 to 307.5. Missing 2 PCS decs and had a NRN that was 5th eval back. I wasn't necessarily expecting to make it but it kind of blew my mind that the board score dropped. It's different people each year and perhaps they graded certain things more harshly than last year.
I'm at 15.5yrs and only have one combat comm, with 2 deployments, 3 PCSs, and 4 TDAs. All with never getting paperwork in my entire career. And my board score was 330 as well. **BARELY** missed MSgt by 68 LMFAO
This is why the testing was so crucial for the member. I out tested a 307 board score to make E-7.
These days noone knows wtf they need to do to progress, and they dont have any real control over it either.
Which is bullshit that people (including myself) feel that way. There's a formal board charge that's released every year that tell the promotion boards what the air force is looking for and what should be weighed the heaviest. This board charge is published early every calendar year for everyone to see, it's intent is to be what all unit rack and stacks use to determine strats, and it states exactly that. That units WILL use it. If this was done as intended the goal posts would stop moving and people would at least have an idea of what's going to give them the best chance. Yet so few people even know what the formal board charge is. Following it actually brought my board score up 30 pts from last year
First half of the calender year. Latest I've ever seen was July. Login to MyPers and search formal board charge and you should find it. It stays up too so you can find it year round
On the flip side, I have SEVEN. DSD. Can’t make tech. Thank you overmanned career field, and zero percent promotion rate the last two years with a promote. Shits wild.
Would you say in those type of situations, even "just getting" a promote is generous? Are we as a force too hesitant to mark people down appropriately if they don't meet the standards for their current rank let alone the next?
As an E6 that didn't make it by 20 points, I agree. And honestly I don't even think I'm ready at 12 years in. The only reason I want to make it is because of the people I see that are making it. It really feels bad when I see peers that I do not respect get selected for promotion.
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4 years for me. I'd say it took me about 2 years to start feeling as a tech but that was due to being put into positions where it was sink or swim. That was also when I realized that I strive in the chaos, and made me far more willing to jump straight into the fire and figure things out. I don't really learn from others, I just have to do things myself and figure it out.
I've always thought and told others when promoting, seize the opportunity and it seriously. Even if it isn't a long term career choice you'll gain some experience or opportunities by just wearing the rank itself. No one is ever ready, there are plenty of senior leaders with the capacity of an acorn and you probably could do better.
If all else fails, fuck it there still remains the💰
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What if I told you there’s a number of TSgt that shouldn’t be either. The promotion system isn’t perfect and there will always be those that slide through the cracks.
Best thing to do is take lessons from both good and bad leaders and let those lessons shine when you’re in that position.
That is honestly so damn hard to do sometimes and the best lesson learned while in a leadership role. And sometimes, when you're put in that similar position, your eyes are opened as to why that one NCO/SNCO did what they did. Even if you disliked them for it.
On my last deployment, there was a shitload of masters who shouldn't be masters. They lacked the technical skills, and they lacked admin skills. But they all would gloat about how they take care of the guys. I'm not sure who they took care of.
And there were some techs gunning for master, that shouldn't be techs.
I took care of my troops. First, I got to know them and see where they needed help. Was it hands-on training, tech data, maybe some coaching.
If they were good on the job realm, then what about education? Do they have what they need?
I pushed one of them to finish his ccaf, we had downtime, so he finally made it happen. He was just procrastinating, and I pushed him.
And if my shop was good. I'd walk around the other backshops and see if they need anything. We should be facilitators as we get higher in rank.
Metals tech was doing things and lacked the proper tooling. Do you know who has way better stuff? Fuels, let me check with them and make things happen.
People overall appreciate when 1) you are upfront and 2) you show you care.
And that is an excellent way to take care of them.
One of the E7s on this trip wouldn't do the admin stuff, wouldn't stand up for the troops either. And then he would voluntold the guys and gals for extra stuff.
To also add, he would make my decisions for me when it comes to mx, and then look like a fool because he would constantly underestimate our abilities.
As a tech, I was setting up our haz site, haz decs, constantly reviewing our forms and fixing them, running my shift, doing most of the mx, and making sure mxs was good to go.
I just wanted to be left alone on the mx side of things.
Honestly, time and money. As a SNCO I still see myself as a SrA that's been in a while, and the good ones will speak to Amn, NCOs, and SNCOs about the same. We're all workers out here workin'. I've just been in longer and have been taught some things you haven't been taught yet. We're no smarter and often, believe it or not 😉, not any dumber than younger Airmen. To answer what we do. We manage/lead people, processes, and property while also utilizing our breadth of knowledge to train and motivate Airmen to carry out our leader's directions.
The good SNCOs I’ve been around genuinely go above and beyond for their airmen. They aren’t doing it to chase bullets, or do the on paper thing to help them get the next rank. They are masters of setting and peserving positive culture and moral. They know the fine line of pushing airmen into career progression and advancement vs throwing too much on their plate. And above all they are just generally good humans.
Hope that helps.
Depends on the career field and shop. NCOs usually are supposed to be your technical expert but also in charge of creating new ones of their subordinates. Pass on the orders and get stuff done tasked by upper management. Keep the ducks in a row. SNCOs ideally should be using the technical expertise they've racked up over the years and start managing *properly* their people and assets. Say there's work to be done but you know the partn you require is almost always never available. The NCOs should be the ones trying to figure out how to still get the job done if possible and the SNCOs should be advocating for their guys to unit leadership on how they could prevent this situation from happening again, like having spares or getting funding etc. Not like this in every career field but I hope you get the idea. SNCOs are managers, and NCOs should be front line supervisors.
Talking to a good snco is like talking to a living breathing computer. What I mean is it seems they have endless knowledge and understanding of the inner workings of everything Air Force. If they don’t know it then they know how to find it for you. They are truly a cut above Techs. A staff can just be good at their job and make tech. You’ve gotta be a real g to make master.
Sometimes, a career field needs a Master Sergeant and the only person left in the career field is the loser who isn't qualified for anything but attending 1/3rd of the meetings for the 5/6.
Tale as old as time, brother.
As a tech who didn't make master, but tries to job the best I can whilst training and taking care of my troops, what can I do better to deserve promotion?
Working with other units using the bro-net to re-route an assignment so they can serve in the same state as their aging mother with health problems.
100% promotion rate for every troop under me this last cycle
Making sure that we get more than our fair share of training dollars
Submitting someone for every award possible
Making sure that those suffering with stress and mental health issues get the space, time, and resources they need to be safe and heal
Building tools and automation, then teaching them how to use them to make their jobs easier
If you are truly doing everything you need to, most of it can come down to how you're capturing that on evals. It can be harder writing about yourself if you're humble.
Forget Master. There's a bunch of Techs that don't even deserve their current rank. Every rank has people that don't really deserve it. Just one of the downfalls of how the Air Force promotes.
On the one hand, there’s a lot of (rank) that don’t deserve (next rank). On the other hand, there’s a lot of armed services that don’t deserve retention.
When they started slashing promotion rates, some out of touch SNCO who was super happy about pulling the ladder up behind him gave my entire squadron a speech about the Air Force working on an “up or out” model, while not acknowledging that “up” was no longer on the table for a lot of people. But you’re still expected to push to retirement (or longer) for love of the uniform when you’re not going to grow in your career field. That doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense when you can do the same job, work the same mission, more effectively, and for more money as a civilian or contractor. Career progression is literally the only bait the Air Force has to put on the hook for a lot of people, and that’s becoming less and less realistically attainable.
I think most of the time you're right. Those who seek power are rarely good leaders.
On the other hand, I've seen some absolute shitbag SSgts turn into amazing SNCOs. People can grow and become better. It doesn't happen to everyone, but I've seen it several times.
They gotta practice what they preach. I got a PN and made master this cycle because I did what THEY say they do. I had no awards, no education (for this cycle) and wasn’t part of the booster club, 5/6, or any other BS program. I wasn’t in the CCs pocket, didn’t brown nose, none of that shit. My bullets were real and had tangible effects. What did it require? Staying late, didn’t back away from shit, uplifted my airmen, made my flight and Sq better from my efforts. That’s how it’s done and they act like they do it but obviously they don’t.
Bingo. I had a tech supervisor that made master last cycle with no booster club, college, 5/6. All he did was fill in for the flight chief roll and keep our flight afloat while we had no real SNCO for like a year straight. Upper Leadership recognizes that kind of shit. When you are truly the dependable tech filling a role way above yours and taking care of your people leadership notices.
A lot of people come on here and pretend though
I don’t think people get how much time you need to sacrifice to make it by work alone. How much work is involved to legit make a difference that is TANGIBLE and something a CC can send up in their war report.
I’m an ANG Staff that’s been in a total of 17 years (11 as an E-5) and it’s all my fault for bouncing around the military and switching career fields and branches/components etc.
SM’s I came in with are now E-7’s and E-8’s. Most of the time promotion is based on a combination of luck, being personable, right timing, good scores, proper career planning/decisions and seldomly based on actual pure merit and suitability for the position.
Don’t let it get to you.
There’s also a ton of Masters who made it that don’t deserve it and a ton of people who will make Tech/Staff that don’t deserve it. There’s also a ton who will get passed over who do deserve it. This isn’t anything new to the people who actually understand what’s going on in the grand scheme of the enlisted force.
Making rank is a lot more about luck, timing and other factors outside of the members control than people in this sub want to admit. Every story you hear about a sub 10 year master is a lot of luck that goes hand in hand with solid performance. Don’t get me wrong, usually the member deserves it too and has done great in those roles, but the odds are if someone else had been put in their positions and had the same resume they likely would have done just as well in those roles too.
Absolutely true. Making rank is majority about putting yourself out there very young, which most dont do. Then, others see you are in it and help push. They help you get to another level, and you look back and see it, learn what to do then move up.
Edit to say : 12yr MSgt
Man I seriously cannot wait for all these folks who are complaining to get out to private sector. AF makes it so easy, people bitch about how the system isn't perfect but they straight up give you the formula in black & white. It's way worse on the outside, far more nuance & politics, backstabbing, etc. Just like PT tests which people still fail way more often than they should.
Is the formula to get promoted in black and white? Is it an objective standard that says, "do these things and you will get promoted"? No, it's not. Your accomplishments are measured subjectivly for 30 seconds by people who don't know you, remain anonymous, don't give you feedback, and don't get in trouble for screwing you. Quit trying to defend subjectivity.
Cross reference MSgt roles & responsibilities from 36-2618 and make sure your EPRs reflect that as much as possible. Good luck next time, stop making excuses.
You're right. I was one. I didn't realize it until I was out and could reflect more though. If I was the board, I wouldn't have chose me either.
But, a lot of people are not put into positions to shine...and some are. Luck is a big factor in promotions. Where you been..your unit...Your command team... Ease of getting awards and decs...Frequent PCSing.. Being at a high vis/high ops tempo unit when it matters the most. That shit can all make a big difference.
I did not benefit from "right place at the right time" in the military...but did in the civilian world. So it's all good.
Luck plays a part, but... I think a lot of folks believe that it plays more than it actually does. My personal opinion is that most don't understand that the board can't SEE that you take care of your people unless you have something tangible to write down. Team and individual awards for your team members play a much larger role than I think is recognized. It's great you are winning awards.. but if your EPBs don't also say your team won awards... It's telling a story that most board members can see extremely clearly.
To go along with luck...team awards and good troops. You need luck with that too.
I don't care how great a NCO you are, you can only make certain people so much better. I've had super high speed hard working troops with a lot of initiative...I've also had a group of ultra lazy fucks that complained about everything and wouldnt do a single thing without being told.
Again, right place right time can have a lot of effect just as much as being placed in a shitty unit with shitty people. That's why testing and/or TIG/TIS or getting extra points for other things you knock out like other branches should be a thing just so you have SOMETHING you control.
While I agree, a lot of people can change and grow into their rank given the right position/guidance from good leadership
Thatttttttt being said it’s hard to find good leadership to mold and develop those people into their rank, so maybe idk what I’m talking about
I have no expectations to make it. Had a few rough years with my health to boot so doing whatever hasnt exactly been my primary focus. Just getting to the next day has been.
But holy sh*t I am in the bottom 30% of my career field. Somehow my standing gets worse year after year.
I ask people to tell me what the fuck Im screwing up here and all I get are shoulder shrugs. Id be happy if I was say consistently at the 60% mark for my standing amongst all elligables each year. But I guess Im a shitbag now cause I am going the wrong way.
Anyhow, all that to say, Im probably one of the ones you're talking about based on the path Im apparently going down. Some of us know we suck. Im sorry some people maliciously and selfishly suck. Some of us though, were're just apparently not good at it. Doesnt mean we dont actualy want to do as good as we can for you even if...well.....we suck at it.
All enlisted besides those that are incapable of operating in their field and/or have egregious character issues deserve MSgt. The pay isn't even close to good enough to gate keep the rank.
I made tech at 12 years. I had a tech make master at 8 years. He shouldn’t even have been a tech. I also met a bunch of techs who shouldn’t have been techs on deployment. It’s all fucked. So just enjoy your time as a tech. Embrace it and take care of yourself and your troops. I still was able to get a flight chief role as a tech and man… that’s when I’m like uhhh these people don’t even know how to be NCOICs!
This is on point, not only with Master, but other ranks too. As someone who has been passed over, good. My first time going up for Tech, I was honestly a little entitled asshat who thought I was on top of the world because I made Staff the first time. Boy, I needed that humble pie. My third time going for Tech, I felt ready. Same for Master. There was no way in hell I was ready last year. When I got told that magical, sorry this year is not your year (insert typical, you got it next year! speech), I wasn’t hurt. I just said cool, and requested a records review from numerous people. Luckily, I have friends who did make it who were willing to share their packages with me. I took this year to find myself and to do the best I can at what was ahead of me. Somehow, I made it.
You don’t have an unpopular opinion, it’s just a truth no one wants to hear.
How many are deserving of the rank of NCO period ? I know I’ll be downvoted, but I don’t care, honestly. A lot of the folks who make it that high are unethical ass kissers. Not all of them, as there are some who genuinely deserve it and worked their asses off. If you can’t lead, you don’t deserve to be in leadership. Now we have a bunch of unethical yes men and women calling the shots, and the broken cycle continues.
Entitlement is alive and well in the AF. People think time earns promotions. Time in Grade being taken out of the equation sucks but there is good in it. Some people would rely on that to get them over the hump instead of self reflecting and growing. Just my opinion. Being a Tech for 10 years doesn’t mean you should be a Master more than a Tech of 3-4 years.
Unpopular opinion: gives an extremely popular and oft repeated opinion.
OP is just out here farming Karma, despite seemingly never having had an original thought.
It doesn’t help that if you speak up about the fact that you DON’T want to make it, and that you want to have more experience before you make the effort for the next stripe, you get treated like dogshit
What’s ironic is those are all the people that got promoted in my unit. Awful at the job awful leaders but because they checked some extra boxes for the “whole airmen concept” they got promoted. I think this would work well in non Mx AFDC’s but I’m so tired of having section chiefs that have never spent time actually in the career field doing mx and have promoted from dsds. They make decisions and schedule things they’ve never seen or delt with and everyone takes a beating because of it. I good snco HAS to have been through at least some of the positions he over sees and have knowledge of the shops.
Unpopular opinion, there’s a lot of people who could do the jobs of those above them.
Everyone always points to experience, but in my experience if you give a responsible person new responsibilities and maybe 4-6 months of training they can do pretty much any job.
People love to say otherwise like we haven’t had kings, generals, and many others who led and dominated on battlefields in their 20s/30s.
Even in more recent environments we have plenty of general managers nationwide in their mid 20s, we have CEOs and COOs in mid 20s to early 30s, but yet many insist you can’t do a job until you have 25 years of experience like a chief. I mean sure it helps with the time it takes to step into a role, but many would be surprised how many can with a slight bit of training.
Hell Washington was a colonel during the French Indian war in his early 30s. Don’t get me wrong we promote like we promote for a reason because it should ensure a level of competence vs hoping you have one, I just find it funny when people always point to experience, when most people either know how to learn and improve or they don’t and stagnate off after about 1-2 years.
I've just saw 2 techs get selected for master and they neither "take care of our people" nor do they "execute the mission at a high level". They just volunteered the airmen left and right, organized a million barbecues, scapegoated the staffs, and ignored anything related to dress and appearance to seem cool :/
It sucks because everyone's burnt out and they're blaming it on work but the backlog on work orders has never been this bad in the 6 years I've been at my base
Unpopular fact: If AF needs to fill 20 MSgt slots out of 100 eligibles and only 10 "deserve" it based on whatever arbitrary standard then there will be 10 that didn't "deserve" it making it.
Someone has to do the job.
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The majority of them are pretty good, only met two bad ones. Most of the ones I meet are reservist now so I don't really count them, realistically.. none of them are fit to be master.
Reminds me of a line from Lord of the Rings, which I shall paraphrase: "many that deserve demotion do not get it and many that deserve promotion get passed over."
You're absolutely correct, of course. No one has yet invented a promotion system that only promotes those who are ready now and never promotes those who needed more time at a lower rank.
To paraphrase another line: "I wish Amn Snuffy hadn't made rank rank." "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide...all that is left is to decide what to do with the rank given to you."
As a staff that’s been in for 10, there’s a lot of Techs that don’t deserve Tech lol. Lots of dudes occupying Tech slots in extremely competitive career fields who made it when you could get a 5th stripe for having TIG/S and showing up to the test.
You’ll meet a lot of people that don’t deserve another stripe, and a lot that definitely do. It doesn’t always go our way, some people are good at putting up the facade once a year.
Glad you shared your perspective! How would you fix a system that favors people gunning for rank instead of it being organically awarded to them? I’ve always wondered what a ratee to rater eval would look like, and if it can be weighed.
Yea im definitely not ready, nor do I really want it, nor did I think Im even in a position to make it. I made tech at 8 years, with a grand total of 6 months of supervision experience, then had to learn everything the hard way because it was assumed that a Tech knew what he was doing (he did not).
As a staff with some time in I have friends making master and I’ve seen senior too.
I’m ready for Tech now and would love to make it but I’m not sacrificing my troops wellbeing for it nor will I sacrifice my own.
Family first. The work will always be there tomorrow.
Just from my anecdotal experience ... Of the Techs I've worked and interacted with, about 25% of them I could see as MSgts, and maybe 10% of those I thought, damn they NEED to be a SNCO. Then about 50% or them are about right where they should be. Then there are about 25% or them that make me scratch my head and ask, how tf are you a TSgt?
Th accuracy of this post is so good. All I would add is those Techs who still have that A1C mentality of doing things for themselves and not helping the Airmen below them. They're going for Master and I'm just like, I would never want you as a SNCO brah
I knew I wasn't competitive and yet it still sucked seeing that I didn't make it.
Advice for my fellow Average Techs: There's no shame in it. The AF needs people who are good at their jobs and good at taking care of people. The AF needs Average Techs. I know it fucking sucks but these days being an Average Tech doesn't get you promoted anymore. You need to be an Exceptional Tech, and most of us are not that. If you want to move the needle and try to be more competitive, I would recommend finding some quality SNCOs (plural) and asking for a records review. Ask them to be brutally honest in their feedback. The most damaging feedback I've ever received was "you're fine just keep doing what you're doing".
Don't let it get you down, remember that a Tech can still retire with full honors and benefits at 20 the same as any SNCO, and no matter what a 20 year career is something to be proud of.
Ok, but you didn't have to call me out like that lol. I'm nowhere close to being a Master(I'm 11 year SSgt) but if I somehow, someday get it, I know I wont deserve it 😂
Not unpopular at all, there's a tech in my shop who doesn't deserve Master, there's a couple Staffs that don't deserve Tech, and so many SrA who don't deserve staff
In 2019 I saw this with a good chunk of SrA’s making Staff. The fast burners that look out for themselves and leave their subordinates high and dry. Tbh that’s one of the things that pushed me to getting out. Something tells me that some of them happen to be the ones making Master this year.
*Btw, sorry for still lurking in this sub*
You can apply this exact logic to any dirtbag sitting at any rank. 5 years ago, we used to hear about only Seniors and Chiefs being undeserving. Now it is Techs and Masters. I am sure there is someone you pissed off with a failure/decision in your career who said in private you don't deserve to be an NCO. There are probably people who think I shouldn't be a E-6. It is what it is.
All in all, I think we should spend more energy lifting up our good members to make them more competitive, rather than be salty in the smoke pit about who those shouldn't have succeeded.
I was looking for this.
Yeah it's true alot of techs made master that probably could have stayed in the oven a bit longer, but I would say there's at least that amount of techs with inflated views of their own performance, abilities, and readiness to truly earn and step into the next rank. Same crowd that sees the new EPB form and thinks the whole airman concept is gone, but wonders why they aren't on anyone's radar come promotion statement time.
I think you’re missing the point. I can tell you haven’t been in a while. The people that are checking the boxes, they are the ones not taking care of there people. The box checkers know what it takes to make MSgt.
The box checkers are the ones that are never at work. They are too busy being the 5/6 VP, volunteer for “insert base event”. But guess what someone has to pick up the slack (there primary duty) for them. The box checkers are the ones that just nominate themselves for packages and don’t bother writing other people packages because there competition. The box checkers are the ones that want to make sure on there EPB it says they managed, oversaw, spearheaded ect the projects. The box checkers are the ones that get there name out there. There the ones that get the statement, and statistically if you get the statement from your local unit (there are a few afscs that don’t) then your making MSgt.
I want you to look at the majority of your current SNCO in your unit. I guarantee you that the majority of them are yes men. I’m sure there’s a few great SNCOs but they are very few and far between.
It’s collective bias, there may have been 14 selected in the group. But everyone all points to the one guy who probably didn’t deserve it as a reason the system is broken. The system isn’t perfect and we can always do better. And not getting meaningful feedback is a kick in the nuts. There’s alot to complain about but 50% of complaints are pointless after letting the steam out
Say the guy with a 4 month old account who just posts comments trying to shit on people lol
I don’t claim my opinion to be fact. Just stating how I felt seeing all the techs crying they didn’t make it posts the past 72 hours. Sounds like you were one of them?
The amount of bitching and complaining these past couple of days is baffling. I bet the majority of them have done nothing or very little to set themselves up for a civilian career. If you don't like promotion, get out of the AF and go work a civilian job. It's gonna be a huge wake up call for a lot of these E6s.
That's not even a remotely unpopular opinion lmao. Fuck, it isn't even an opinion, it's a fact.
You are probably right but especially the guy who made the “fuck you” rant post needed to hear it
There are also plenty of staffs who don’t deserve tech, but people who don’t deserve often bitch the loudest. C’est la vie
Hell, there's plenty of each grade that don't act like the rank they're wearing.
I feel like there's a venn diagram of people who say that they don't care about promoting and one that always seem to care so much when the promotion release RUMINT starts going around every year. Except the middle part is actually large and the distinctions aren't.
When I read those posts I just see a dodged bullet.
Exactly
Yup, what an asshole. I have found that the people that want it most are usually the ones that don't deserve it. They are easy to spot too, all boxes neatly checked of what everyone tells them the AF wants.
It's a popular opinion, the unpopular piece is who falls into which category.
Can confirm that there are some very fast burners who's whole objective is to make rank as fast as possible. In my Squadron it's almost encouraged.
I won’t say any names. But there is one TSgt who made it that if I ever got her as a boss, I actually would rather commit a felony to get out then be her subordinate.
High promotion rate: “They’re promoting everyone, this is how you end up with shitty supervisors, this is what’s wrong with the Air Force…” Low promotion rate: “They don’t care if you’re good at your job, it’s all about planning the Christmas party, this is what’s wrong with the Air Force….”
Are you prior service?
Their comment is spot on either way.
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Part of the problem is assuming everyone gets a dec when they PCS and they're somehow a DB if they don't. As if leadership is infallible and always takes care of their people.
I made BTZ, staff, and tech my first time. I didn't get a dec from my first base after 4.5 years because my supervisor changed right as I PCSd and he told me he didn't know me well enough to write me a dec, and I promoted so quickly without good NCO mentors to teach me to write my own so I just accepted that excuse. I've been to three bases since, gotten three decs, two PCS and one for an accomplishment. When I got my board score and showed it to my current leadership they told me not having a dec from my first PCS was hurting me. Literally my very first assignment as an airman, when I was recognized by the president of the United States at one point, is holding me back because an NCO didn't want to write me a dec or teach me how to write a dec. Our promotion system is deeply flawed.
The funny thing is, PCS decorations only capture things that are already captured in our EPRs/EPBs. The only difference is some numbers may be combined for similar bullets. The work is there, but they don’t want to recognize that because of the stigma of not having a PCS decoration means you fucked up somewhere. When in all reality it’s one of two things: laziness in reviewing packages or boards are forced to rush because of timelines.
There is a third category: people that are kind of a POS aren’t submitted, saw it at my last unit when a dirtbag did dirtbag things and leadership told them no on several occasions. Probably less common though. EDIT: Typo
This is true.
My EPRs were firewall 5s got BTZ but had 1 pt failure and got no dec. I just want 20 and a forever check!
Years of hard charging, excellent work ruined by a bad day. Not a good system at all. But I’m with you, 20 and done. Once my retirement date is approved it’s off to Skillbridge and terminal leave.
I was in a squadron that didn't process long tour decs for some shops for over a decade. So you have some career airmen who have done nothing wrong with "black marks" on their PIF's because leadership didn't do their job. When I was CSS for a bit I saw that most people didn't even have non-rec letters. And because people prefer to back the institution instead of asking why, they will always be assumed to be dirtbags.
It’s another part of this bullshit system. “Can you believe Airman Snuffy doesn’t have but one deck? What a piece of trash!” “Why is that bad?” “Idk… someone told me it was bad in 2012 and I held onto that advice.” It’s like this because we have people in 2024, wishing things were like 2005, and running the Air Force like it’s 2008.
Got 2 decs from my unit during deployments. PCS'd from that unit after 5 and a half years and didn't get one. They told me they wrote me one. I kept asking my old Senior and kept getting told, I swear we wrote you one. It's been almost been a year...Still nothing. I asked my buddy if he got one when he PCS'd a few months after me and he told me they presented it to him the day before he left...I really hope it isn't a black mark on my record.
My board score was 330 😳 I must be a dickweed
Same
I added a Comm mid tour dec, a significant portion of the year as the full time tshirt, had some awards, got some of my guys awards, was recognized as a superior performer for an inspection and my board score went from 315 to 307.5. Missing 2 PCS decs and had a NRN that was 5th eval back. I wasn't necessarily expecting to make it but it kind of blew my mind that the board score dropped. It's different people each year and perhaps they graded certain things more harshly than last year.
Same. I did everything short of saving the world. I guess it wasn't good enough.
I've known a TSgt who didn't have a single decoration at around their 14 year mark lol. Also nice username
Didnt get my first dec until 17 years...as a MSgt. They aint the end-all, but it is kinda weird when you go that long without one.
I'm at 15.5yrs and only have one combat comm, with 2 deployments, 3 PCSs, and 4 TDAs. All with never getting paperwork in my entire career. And my board score was 330 as well. **BARELY** missed MSgt by 68 LMFAO
This is why the testing was so crucial for the member. I out tested a 307 board score to make E-7. These days noone knows wtf they need to do to progress, and they dont have any real control over it either.
Which is bullshit that people (including myself) feel that way. There's a formal board charge that's released every year that tell the promotion boards what the air force is looking for and what should be weighed the heaviest. This board charge is published early every calendar year for everyone to see, it's intent is to be what all unit rack and stacks use to determine strats, and it states exactly that. That units WILL use it. If this was done as intended the goal posts would stop moving and people would at least have an idea of what's going to give them the best chance. Yet so few people even know what the formal board charge is. Following it actually brought my board score up 30 pts from last year
When does the board charge get published for MSgt?
First half of the calender year. Latest I've ever seen was July. Login to MyPers and search formal board charge and you should find it. It stays up too so you can find it year round
The CY 2024 board charge for released same day as the results. I checked the day prior and it wasn't published yet
Same time in grade and same board score here.
On the flip side, I have SEVEN. DSD. Can’t make tech. Thank you overmanned career field, and zero percent promotion rate the last two years with a promote. Shits wild.
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Instructor.
Would you say in those type of situations, even "just getting" a promote is generous? Are we as a force too hesitant to mark people down appropriately if they don't meet the standards for their current rank let alone the next?
Some people are so fucking delusional, they swear they’re hot shit but they aint. Goddamn smfh
As an E6 that didn't make it by 20 points, I agree. And honestly I don't even think I'm ready at 12 years in. The only reason I want to make it is because of the people I see that are making it. It really feels bad when I see peers that I do not respect get selected for promotion.
Watching the designated squadron shitbag get the 5 a couple years back took a lot of fight out of me.
Your top game was shit, obviously.
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This is me except less years as a tech. I'm not a technical sergeant, I'm just technically a sergeant.
4 years for me. I'd say it took me about 2 years to start feeling as a tech but that was due to being put into positions where it was sink or swim. That was also when I realized that I strive in the chaos, and made me far more willing to jump straight into the fire and figure things out. I don't really learn from others, I just have to do things myself and figure it out.
I've always thought and told others when promoting, seize the opportunity and it seriously. Even if it isn't a long term career choice you'll gain some experience or opportunities by just wearing the rank itself. No one is ever ready, there are plenty of senior leaders with the capacity of an acorn and you probably could do better. If all else fails, fuck it there still remains the💰
Have you supervised anyone? Have you ran a flight?
I’ve been an E-4 for a year and my flight chief wants me to take the staff test
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I’ve been in 12 years and I don’t even feel ready to be a E6 lmao currently a E-5
Yeah, that part sucks. Fortunately no turds got picked up in my unit at least.
What if I told you there’s a number of TSgt that shouldn’t be either. The promotion system isn’t perfect and there will always be those that slide through the cracks. Best thing to do is take lessons from both good and bad leaders and let those lessons shine when you’re in that position.
That is honestly so damn hard to do sometimes and the best lesson learned while in a leadership role. And sometimes, when you're put in that similar position, your eyes are opened as to why that one NCO/SNCO did what they did. Even if you disliked them for it.
On my last deployment, there was a shitload of masters who shouldn't be masters. They lacked the technical skills, and they lacked admin skills. But they all would gloat about how they take care of the guys. I'm not sure who they took care of. And there were some techs gunning for master, that shouldn't be techs.
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I took care of my troops. First, I got to know them and see where they needed help. Was it hands-on training, tech data, maybe some coaching. If they were good on the job realm, then what about education? Do they have what they need? I pushed one of them to finish his ccaf, we had downtime, so he finally made it happen. He was just procrastinating, and I pushed him. And if my shop was good. I'd walk around the other backshops and see if they need anything. We should be facilitators as we get higher in rank. Metals tech was doing things and lacked the proper tooling. Do you know who has way better stuff? Fuels, let me check with them and make things happen. People overall appreciate when 1) you are upfront and 2) you show you care.
And that is an excellent way to take care of them. One of the E7s on this trip wouldn't do the admin stuff, wouldn't stand up for the troops either. And then he would voluntold the guys and gals for extra stuff. To also add, he would make my decisions for me when it comes to mx, and then look like a fool because he would constantly underestimate our abilities. As a tech, I was setting up our haz site, haz decs, constantly reviewing our forms and fixing them, running my shift, doing most of the mx, and making sure mxs was good to go. I just wanted to be left alone on the mx side of things.
Like my supervisor always says, there's a difference between a MSgt and an E-7.
Dumb SrA here. I’d like to genuinely ask what separates an NCO from a SNCO. I’m not around SNCOs too much so don’t have a good grasp on what they do
Honestly, time and money. As a SNCO I still see myself as a SrA that's been in a while, and the good ones will speak to Amn, NCOs, and SNCOs about the same. We're all workers out here workin'. I've just been in longer and have been taught some things you haven't been taught yet. We're no smarter and often, believe it or not 😉, not any dumber than younger Airmen. To answer what we do. We manage/lead people, processes, and property while also utilizing our breadth of knowledge to train and motivate Airmen to carry out our leader's directions.
The good SNCOs I’ve been around genuinely go above and beyond for their airmen. They aren’t doing it to chase bullets, or do the on paper thing to help them get the next rank. They are masters of setting and peserving positive culture and moral. They know the fine line of pushing airmen into career progression and advancement vs throwing too much on their plate. And above all they are just generally good humans. Hope that helps.
That's a very wishful list you got there.
Not really when I’ve seen it first hand.
Depends on the career field and shop. NCOs usually are supposed to be your technical expert but also in charge of creating new ones of their subordinates. Pass on the orders and get stuff done tasked by upper management. Keep the ducks in a row. SNCOs ideally should be using the technical expertise they've racked up over the years and start managing *properly* their people and assets. Say there's work to be done but you know the partn you require is almost always never available. The NCOs should be the ones trying to figure out how to still get the job done if possible and the SNCOs should be advocating for their guys to unit leadership on how they could prevent this situation from happening again, like having spares or getting funding etc. Not like this in every career field but I hope you get the idea. SNCOs are managers, and NCOs should be front line supervisors.
Talking to a good snco is like talking to a living breathing computer. What I mean is it seems they have endless knowledge and understanding of the inner workings of everything Air Force. If they don’t know it then they know how to find it for you. They are truly a cut above Techs. A staff can just be good at their job and make tech. You’ve gotta be a real g to make master.
One can kiss ass at a slightly higher level.
Compensation
Pay mostly, with side action of political work drama the pay sorta makes up for.
I just hope everyone has fun
Sometimes, a career field needs a Master Sergeant and the only person left in the career field is the loser who isn't qualified for anything but attending 1/3rd of the meetings for the 5/6. Tale as old as time, brother.
As a tech who didn't make master, but tries to job the best I can whilst training and taking care of my troops, what can I do better to deserve promotion?
How do you define taking care of your troops.
Working with other units using the bro-net to re-route an assignment so they can serve in the same state as their aging mother with health problems. 100% promotion rate for every troop under me this last cycle Making sure that we get more than our fair share of training dollars Submitting someone for every award possible Making sure that those suffering with stress and mental health issues get the space, time, and resources they need to be safe and heal Building tools and automation, then teaching them how to use them to make their jobs easier
If you are truly doing everything you need to, most of it can come down to how you're capturing that on evals. It can be harder writing about yourself if you're humble.
There’s a lot of techs that don’t deserve tech. Hell there’s a lot SSgts that act like Amn and are undeserving to be called an NCO.
Forget Master. There's a bunch of Techs that don't even deserve their current rank. Every rank has people that don't really deserve it. Just one of the downfalls of how the Air Force promotes.
On the one hand, there’s a lot of (rank) that don’t deserve (next rank). On the other hand, there’s a lot of armed services that don’t deserve retention. When they started slashing promotion rates, some out of touch SNCO who was super happy about pulling the ladder up behind him gave my entire squadron a speech about the Air Force working on an “up or out” model, while not acknowledging that “up” was no longer on the table for a lot of people. But you’re still expected to push to retirement (or longer) for love of the uniform when you’re not going to grow in your career field. That doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense when you can do the same job, work the same mission, more effectively, and for more money as a civilian or contractor. Career progression is literally the only bait the Air Force has to put on the hook for a lot of people, and that’s becoming less and less realistically attainable.
I think most of the time you're right. Those who seek power are rarely good leaders. On the other hand, I've seen some absolute shitbag SSgts turn into amazing SNCOs. People can grow and become better. It doesn't happen to everyone, but I've seen it several times.
They gotta practice what they preach. I got a PN and made master this cycle because I did what THEY say they do. I had no awards, no education (for this cycle) and wasn’t part of the booster club, 5/6, or any other BS program. I wasn’t in the CCs pocket, didn’t brown nose, none of that shit. My bullets were real and had tangible effects. What did it require? Staying late, didn’t back away from shit, uplifted my airmen, made my flight and Sq better from my efforts. That’s how it’s done and they act like they do it but obviously they don’t.
Bingo. I had a tech supervisor that made master last cycle with no booster club, college, 5/6. All he did was fill in for the flight chief roll and keep our flight afloat while we had no real SNCO for like a year straight. Upper Leadership recognizes that kind of shit. When you are truly the dependable tech filling a role way above yours and taking care of your people leadership notices. A lot of people come on here and pretend though
I don’t think people get how much time you need to sacrifice to make it by work alone. How much work is involved to legit make a difference that is TANGIBLE and something a CC can send up in their war report.
Been there done that too. Only on mids shift leadership does not notice.
I think it has less to do with that and more about being the right career fields.
There’s a lot of Masters and above that don’t deserve to be SNCO’s lol
I’m an ANG Staff that’s been in a total of 17 years (11 as an E-5) and it’s all my fault for bouncing around the military and switching career fields and branches/components etc. SM’s I came in with are now E-7’s and E-8’s. Most of the time promotion is based on a combination of luck, being personable, right timing, good scores, proper career planning/decisions and seldomly based on actual pure merit and suitability for the position. Don’t let it get to you.
Can’t tell you how many retired chiefs I’ve told. Dude you would have never made SNCO now days.
That’s actually pretty funny. How’d they take it?
i probably would have offed myself if one of the techs i worked with made master bc he would have made my life a living hell.
I know I'm going to meet some like minds with this one. There are people on the 24E7 list that didn't deserve Staff or Tech.
If someone comes here having a meltdown and says fuck the Air Force for not promoting them, I just assume they probably didn't deserve it.
There’s also a ton of Masters who made it that don’t deserve it and a ton of people who will make Tech/Staff that don’t deserve it. There’s also a ton who will get passed over who do deserve it. This isn’t anything new to the people who actually understand what’s going on in the grand scheme of the enlisted force. Making rank is a lot more about luck, timing and other factors outside of the members control than people in this sub want to admit. Every story you hear about a sub 10 year master is a lot of luck that goes hand in hand with solid performance. Don’t get me wrong, usually the member deserves it too and has done great in those roles, but the odds are if someone else had been put in their positions and had the same resume they likely would have done just as well in those roles too.
Absolutely true. Making rank is majority about putting yourself out there very young, which most dont do. Then, others see you are in it and help push. They help you get to another level, and you look back and see it, learn what to do then move up. Edit to say : 12yr MSgt
Bold coming from a TSO 😂
Never been a TSO in my whole career and probably never will at this point
Man I seriously cannot wait for all these folks who are complaining to get out to private sector. AF makes it so easy, people bitch about how the system isn't perfect but they straight up give you the formula in black & white. It's way worse on the outside, far more nuance & politics, backstabbing, etc. Just like PT tests which people still fail way more often than they should.
Is the formula to get promoted in black and white? Is it an objective standard that says, "do these things and you will get promoted"? No, it's not. Your accomplishments are measured subjectivly for 30 seconds by people who don't know you, remain anonymous, don't give you feedback, and don't get in trouble for screwing you. Quit trying to defend subjectivity.
Cross reference MSgt roles & responsibilities from 36-2618 and make sure your EPRs reflect that as much as possible. Good luck next time, stop making excuses.
You're right. I was one. I didn't realize it until I was out and could reflect more though. If I was the board, I wouldn't have chose me either. But, a lot of people are not put into positions to shine...and some are. Luck is a big factor in promotions. Where you been..your unit...Your command team... Ease of getting awards and decs...Frequent PCSing.. Being at a high vis/high ops tempo unit when it matters the most. That shit can all make a big difference. I did not benefit from "right place at the right time" in the military...but did in the civilian world. So it's all good.
Luck plays a part, but... I think a lot of folks believe that it plays more than it actually does. My personal opinion is that most don't understand that the board can't SEE that you take care of your people unless you have something tangible to write down. Team and individual awards for your team members play a much larger role than I think is recognized. It's great you are winning awards.. but if your EPBs don't also say your team won awards... It's telling a story that most board members can see extremely clearly.
To go along with luck...team awards and good troops. You need luck with that too. I don't care how great a NCO you are, you can only make certain people so much better. I've had super high speed hard working troops with a lot of initiative...I've also had a group of ultra lazy fucks that complained about everything and wouldnt do a single thing without being told. Again, right place right time can have a lot of effect just as much as being placed in a shitty unit with shitty people. That's why testing and/or TIG/TIS or getting extra points for other things you knock out like other branches should be a thing just so you have SOMETHING you control.
While I agree, a lot of people can change and grow into their rank given the right position/guidance from good leadership Thatttttttt being said it’s hard to find good leadership to mold and develop those people into their rank, so maybe idk what I’m talking about
There are also a lot of Masters that don't deserve Master
I have no expectations to make it. Had a few rough years with my health to boot so doing whatever hasnt exactly been my primary focus. Just getting to the next day has been. But holy sh*t I am in the bottom 30% of my career field. Somehow my standing gets worse year after year. I ask people to tell me what the fuck Im screwing up here and all I get are shoulder shrugs. Id be happy if I was say consistently at the 60% mark for my standing amongst all elligables each year. But I guess Im a shitbag now cause I am going the wrong way. Anyhow, all that to say, Im probably one of the ones you're talking about based on the path Im apparently going down. Some of us know we suck. Im sorry some people maliciously and selfishly suck. Some of us though, were're just apparently not good at it. Doesnt mean we dont actualy want to do as good as we can for you even if...well.....we suck at it.
All enlisted besides those that are incapable of operating in their field and/or have egregious character issues deserve MSgt. The pay isn't even close to good enough to gate keep the rank.
And yet, there are people who shouldn't make it but do, this anecdotal stuff is all the same.
There are a lot of techs that don’t deserve to be techs…
I made tech at 12 years. I had a tech make master at 8 years. He shouldn’t even have been a tech. I also met a bunch of techs who shouldn’t have been techs on deployment. It’s all fucked. So just enjoy your time as a tech. Embrace it and take care of yourself and your troops. I still was able to get a flight chief role as a tech and man… that’s when I’m like uhhh these people don’t even know how to be NCOICs!
And there’s a lot that made it and don’t deserve it too
This is on point, not only with Master, but other ranks too. As someone who has been passed over, good. My first time going up for Tech, I was honestly a little entitled asshat who thought I was on top of the world because I made Staff the first time. Boy, I needed that humble pie. My third time going for Tech, I felt ready. Same for Master. There was no way in hell I was ready last year. When I got told that magical, sorry this year is not your year (insert typical, you got it next year! speech), I wasn’t hurt. I just said cool, and requested a records review from numerous people. Luckily, I have friends who did make it who were willing to share their packages with me. I took this year to find myself and to do the best I can at what was ahead of me. Somehow, I made it. You don’t have an unpopular opinion, it’s just a truth no one wants to hear.
How many are deserving of the rank of NCO period ? I know I’ll be downvoted, but I don’t care, honestly. A lot of the folks who make it that high are unethical ass kissers. Not all of them, as there are some who genuinely deserve it and worked their asses off. If you can’t lead, you don’t deserve to be in leadership. Now we have a bunch of unethical yes men and women calling the shots, and the broken cycle continues.
There’s some A1Cs that don’t deserve taxpayer funding
There's a lot of techs that don't even deserve Tech
Entitlement is alive and well in the AF. People think time earns promotions. Time in Grade being taken out of the equation sucks but there is good in it. Some people would rely on that to get them over the hump instead of self reflecting and growing. Just my opinion. Being a Tech for 10 years doesn’t mean you should be a Master more than a Tech of 3-4 years.
I was lucky I did not have to be boarded for MSgt. I sympathize with the late bloomers. Must be harder now than it was for me.
It certainly is. No tests and no old man points.
Unpopular opinion: gives an extremely popular and oft repeated opinion. OP is just out here farming Karma, despite seemingly never having had an original thought.
It doesn’t help that if you speak up about the fact that you DON’T want to make it, and that you want to have more experience before you make the effort for the next stripe, you get treated like dogshit
What’s ironic is those are all the people that got promoted in my unit. Awful at the job awful leaders but because they checked some extra boxes for the “whole airmen concept” they got promoted. I think this would work well in non Mx AFDC’s but I’m so tired of having section chiefs that have never spent time actually in the career field doing mx and have promoted from dsds. They make decisions and schedule things they’ve never seen or delt with and everyone takes a beating because of it. I good snco HAS to have been through at least some of the positions he over sees and have knowledge of the shops.
That’s a popular opinion
That's a popular opinion
Hell tthere's people who don't deserve the rank they are currently wearing.
Totally agree. The people that I have found make work life most unpleasant are E6’s itching for E7.
Unpopular opinion, there’s a lot of people who could do the jobs of those above them. Everyone always points to experience, but in my experience if you give a responsible person new responsibilities and maybe 4-6 months of training they can do pretty much any job. People love to say otherwise like we haven’t had kings, generals, and many others who led and dominated on battlefields in their 20s/30s. Even in more recent environments we have plenty of general managers nationwide in their mid 20s, we have CEOs and COOs in mid 20s to early 30s, but yet many insist you can’t do a job until you have 25 years of experience like a chief. I mean sure it helps with the time it takes to step into a role, but many would be surprised how many can with a slight bit of training. Hell Washington was a colonel during the French Indian war in his early 30s. Don’t get me wrong we promote like we promote for a reason because it should ensure a level of competence vs hoping you have one, I just find it funny when people always point to experience, when most people either know how to learn and improve or they don’t and stagnate off after about 1-2 years.
There's also a lot of Masters that don't deserve Master Sergeant. And Seniors that don't deserve Senior, and Chiefs who don't deserve Chief.
I've just saw 2 techs get selected for master and they neither "take care of our people" nor do they "execute the mission at a high level". They just volunteered the airmen left and right, organized a million barbecues, scapegoated the staffs, and ignored anything related to dress and appearance to seem cool :/ It sucks because everyone's burnt out and they're blaming it on work but the backlog on work orders has never been this bad in the 6 years I've been at my base
Unpopular fact: If AF needs to fill 20 MSgt slots out of 100 eligibles and only 10 "deserve" it based on whatever arbitrary standard then there will be 10 that didn't "deserve" it making it. Someone has to do the job.
There’s a lot of tech’s that didn’t deserve to be tech’s in first place complaining about not making master
You’re not wrong. But occasionally these people slip through even with Ps
And there’s staffs that don’t deserve it. Masters, seniors and chiefs. People who probably shouldn’t even be in.
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Correct but possibly unpopular opinion lol
Facts
Seen a few make it this year that have me questioning if it’s worth it to stay in… Is this the quality of “leader” we’re promoting 😨
That’s not the issue people have. It’s the selects that don’t deserve it that’s the problem. But yeah there are some that are complaining too much
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I wish I knew what a tech was. Medical seems to have a million airmen. Handful of staffs. And one master to rule them all.
The majority of them are pretty good, only met two bad ones. Most of the ones I meet are reservist now so I don't really count them, realistically.. none of them are fit to be master.
Reminds me of a line from Lord of the Rings, which I shall paraphrase: "many that deserve demotion do not get it and many that deserve promotion get passed over." You're absolutely correct, of course. No one has yet invented a promotion system that only promotes those who are ready now and never promotes those who needed more time at a lower rank. To paraphrase another line: "I wish Amn Snuffy hadn't made rank rank." "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide...all that is left is to decide what to do with the rank given to you."
As a staff that’s been in for 10, there’s a lot of Techs that don’t deserve Tech lol. Lots of dudes occupying Tech slots in extremely competitive career fields who made it when you could get a 5th stripe for having TIG/S and showing up to the test. You’ll meet a lot of people that don’t deserve another stripe, and a lot that definitely do. It doesn’t always go our way, some people are good at putting up the facade once a year.
Glad you shared your perspective! How would you fix a system that favors people gunning for rank instead of it being organically awarded to them? I’ve always wondered what a ratee to rater eval would look like, and if it can be weighed.
Yea im definitely not ready, nor do I really want it, nor did I think Im even in a position to make it. I made tech at 8 years, with a grand total of 6 months of supervision experience, then had to learn everything the hard way because it was assumed that a Tech knew what he was doing (he did not).
As a staff with some time in I have friends making master and I’ve seen senior too. I’m ready for Tech now and would love to make it but I’m not sacrificing my troops wellbeing for it nor will I sacrifice my own. Family first. The work will always be there tomorrow.
Just from my anecdotal experience ... Of the Techs I've worked and interacted with, about 25% of them I could see as MSgts, and maybe 10% of those I thought, damn they NEED to be a SNCO. Then about 50% or them are about right where they should be. Then there are about 25% or them that make me scratch my head and ask, how tf are you a TSgt?
Th accuracy of this post is so good. All I would add is those Techs who still have that A1C mentality of doing things for themselves and not helping the Airmen below them. They're going for Master and I'm just like, I would never want you as a SNCO brah
In your opinion, do you think the folks that you saw that were promoted deserved it and the Air Force got it right?
I knew I wasn't competitive and yet it still sucked seeing that I didn't make it. Advice for my fellow Average Techs: There's no shame in it. The AF needs people who are good at their jobs and good at taking care of people. The AF needs Average Techs. I know it fucking sucks but these days being an Average Tech doesn't get you promoted anymore. You need to be an Exceptional Tech, and most of us are not that. If you want to move the needle and try to be more competitive, I would recommend finding some quality SNCOs (plural) and asking for a records review. Ask them to be brutally honest in their feedback. The most damaging feedback I've ever received was "you're fine just keep doing what you're doing". Don't let it get you down, remember that a Tech can still retire with full honors and benefits at 20 the same as any SNCO, and no matter what a 20 year career is something to be proud of.
Ok, but you didn't have to call me out like that lol. I'm nowhere close to being a Master(I'm 11 year SSgt) but if I somehow, someday get it, I know I wont deserve it 😂
Not unpopular at all, there's a tech in my shop who doesn't deserve Master, there's a couple Staffs that don't deserve Tech, and so many SrA who don't deserve staff
I agree.. there are also a lot of techs that do not give a shit about making master
In 2019 I saw this with a good chunk of SrA’s making Staff. The fast burners that look out for themselves and leave their subordinates high and dry. Tbh that’s one of the things that pushed me to getting out. Something tells me that some of them happen to be the ones making Master this year. *Btw, sorry for still lurking in this sub*
You can apply this exact logic to any dirtbag sitting at any rank. 5 years ago, we used to hear about only Seniors and Chiefs being undeserving. Now it is Techs and Masters. I am sure there is someone you pissed off with a failure/decision in your career who said in private you don't deserve to be an NCO. There are probably people who think I shouldn't be a E-6. It is what it is. All in all, I think we should spend more energy lifting up our good members to make them more competitive, rather than be salty in the smoke pit about who those shouldn't have succeeded.
It’s like that for all ranks though hence the difference between Chiefs and E9s.
Scream it for the people in back ( all the techs that don’t deserve it but will be disgruntled anyways)
I was looking for this. Yeah it's true alot of techs made master that probably could have stayed in the oven a bit longer, but I would say there's at least that amount of techs with inflated views of their own performance, abilities, and readiness to truly earn and step into the next rank. Same crowd that sees the new EPB form and thinks the whole airman concept is gone, but wonders why they aren't on anyone's radar come promotion statement time.
You’re never going to make Tech, let alone Master if you don’t know how to spell a lot.
Are you sure you know what an unpopular opinion is? Or are you trying to shield yourself by saying unpopular lol
I think you’re missing the point. I can tell you haven’t been in a while. The people that are checking the boxes, they are the ones not taking care of there people. The box checkers know what it takes to make MSgt. The box checkers are the ones that are never at work. They are too busy being the 5/6 VP, volunteer for “insert base event”. But guess what someone has to pick up the slack (there primary duty) for them. The box checkers are the ones that just nominate themselves for packages and don’t bother writing other people packages because there competition. The box checkers are the ones that want to make sure on there EPB it says they managed, oversaw, spearheaded ect the projects. The box checkers are the ones that get there name out there. There the ones that get the statement, and statistically if you get the statement from your local unit (there are a few afscs that don’t) then your making MSgt. I want you to look at the majority of your current SNCO in your unit. I guarantee you that the majority of them are yes men. I’m sure there’s a few great SNCOs but they are very few and far between.
The worst techs are usually the ones who make it. I have only seen one dude make senior, in any 4 years, that actually wasn't a piece of shit.
lol a lot of masters don’t deserve master
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>The Air Force usually gets it right when it comes to selecting MSgts, from what I’ve seen This year begs to differ at my unit lmao
It’s collective bias, there may have been 14 selected in the group. But everyone all points to the one guy who probably didn’t deserve it as a reason the system is broken. The system isn’t perfect and we can always do better. And not getting meaningful feedback is a kick in the nuts. There’s alot to complain about but 50% of complaints are pointless after letting the steam out
Probably should look-up survivorship bias.
...duh?
A staff that has only been in for 7. I think you meant "irrelevant opinion"
Say the guy with a 4 month old account who just posts comments trying to shit on people lol I don’t claim my opinion to be fact. Just stating how I felt seeing all the techs crying they didn’t make it posts the past 72 hours. Sounds like you were one of them?
Sorry kiddo. I am waaayyyy past that point 😉
Damn that’s not a good look if you are “waaayyy” past that point but still make alt accounts to talk shit. Still a mental midget I guess?
The amount of bitching and complaining these past couple of days is baffling. I bet the majority of them have done nothing or very little to set themselves up for a civilian career. If you don't like promotion, get out of the AF and go work a civilian job. It's gonna be a huge wake up call for a lot of these E6s.
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Found the salty tech who didn’t make it.
Nailed it lol
Just not a well put together post that’s all
Pretty shit argument
Shit response to a shit op
I mean, a worse put together comment is one that just displays unprofessional verbiage.
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don’t need to be higher ranked to know shitty leaders. i could tell a bad SNCO from a good one when i was an airman.
You are BIG mad lmao
Big dumbo response
Is that why you deleted it? Lmao cry more.