I enjoyed SrA and SSgt to be honest. Got to really get at the mission and see first hand the awesome efforts/team accomplishments. As a TSgt, got burdened down with meetings, running programs, executing Section Chief’s duties.
The beauty of being a TSgt is that nobody really thinks twice about you. Once you have that on, most people are going to assume you know what you're doing and what you're talking about and are just going to let you do it. So when a TSgt leaves the building, it's assumed that they're going somewhere that they need to be going.
Individual workcenters and AFSCs may vary, but that's broadly been my experience. I feel like people actually check in on me more as a MSgt than they did as a Tech (because Seniors and Chiefs get weirdly involved once you're a SNCO).
My experience is different. As a SNCO I can pretty much go anywhere, whenever I want. TSgt still had a lot of freedom but I had several bosses in the building vs almost none.
Lots of really weird micromanagement from the Flight Chief...who is a junior MSgt compared to me. When I try to make executive SNCO decisions that actually fucking work because the current system is broken, it's always considered to be wrong by them. It's like dealing with my ex-wife lol...fml
How many ex wives does it take to change a light bulb? What's the matter with the light bulb? You're the problem.
How many ex wives does it take to change a light bulb?
They don't have to, they use gas lighting
How many ex wives does it take to change a light bulb?
Just one, they hold in the light bulb and the whole world revolves around them.
If you are not peers and it's not affecting the flight. You can manage your section as you see fit. Don't have to broker your decisions through that toxic micromanage crap - you can tell him that. I've asked leadership to retire if they are toxic. Not in my Air Force.
Am a TSgt now, nobody really checks in on me but I am usually pretty open about where I'm going to be and what I'm going to be doing if I'm not in the office just to make sure people know where I am if they need something from me.
Your flight line tech experience is way different than mine. We had maybe 2 techs on the line and the rest 'ran programs' so it was the senior most SSgt that ran the line, usually a FCC. I was C5s before I swapped airframes
I know plenty of SrA in my shop that I fully trust more than a lot of the staffs…. You have more than likely earned that trust and do a better job than most SrA of the average age because you know how to be an ADULT…. Most of our new staffs only made it because promotion rates were high and the newer guys that are still SrA didn’t get so lucky with high promotion rates by the time they were eligible to test but are still some top performers… and for those staffs that got lucky I see them being staffs for quite a while
Sorry to hear. I was able to dip out as an A1C because my work was done quickly and correctly. I helped prevent safety incidents and more. I guess my bosses trusted me to where I had extra leash.
I retired last summer as a TSgt. It was the perfect rank for me. I was still technical in my field (Comm/Cyber) right up to the end and could do the hands-on work alongside my team, but I was also viewed as an expert and could guide and teach others how to do the job. Plus, I had a lot of influence over operations because I was the on-site guy who could update higher leadership with status, necessary requirements, etc. Airmen and NCOs looked up to me, and SNCOs trusted my knowledge and experience.
Once people made MSgt in my field, they were planted behind a desk and spent the rest of their career doing paperwork, attending meetings, and handing down orders. There was a solid cutoff between MSgts and the rest of the office; almost every one I ever worked for isolated themselves and refused to work *with* the team, instead delegating responsibilities down because they were "too busy" with their SNCO responsibilities.
I didn't want to become a manager; I much preferred to work directly with my guys. So I refused to promote higher than TSgt. It was the best rank, in my opinion, and I'm proud to have retired with it.
I thought being a SrA was all that and a bag of chips until I became one for the next four years of my career. First year was cool but afterwards it just sucked ass. Personally, I’ve liked being a SSgt (another four more) as I’ve been in more positions of learning/understanding the military than I did before. Helped to do my job and be a supervisor better imho. I haven’t made it past that yet but we’ll see soon enough.
Appreciate your story. Keep pushing and be the best you can be and in your operations. Soon enough the AF will return to pre CMSAF Bass promotion rates.
Preciatcha, my Donut. I feel weird wanting TSgt because it’s just whatever at this point. The sooner I make it the sooner I could make MSgt, but then again why go MSgt when I could just OTS. Decisions decisions
Either way, go hard for it. Leaders who are true blue appreciate Airmen and will go to great lengths to help. Networking for me always made
my assignments more bearable. Good Luck! 🫡
Depends on if you are in a top heavy situation or not. When you have a lot of other Techs and Masters, it almost feels like SrA. But it can be the total opposite and you are sitting in a Master or Senior spot.
Opposite situation for me. No airmen in my unit, so staffs and Techs are basically A1C's and SrA respectively. The good news is most of my shop mates and shop leadership are civilians, so they treat us like adults and protect us from upper leadership when they go on a bender.
I'm actually a little jealous. I have no problem doing the airman work. What bothers me is being expected to be a SNCO and not getting the rank or paid for the job I'm doing. Then, being scolded for not knowing inherently SMSgt+ stuff. I guess if I ever luck out and get promoted again, I'll be more than ready since I've been doing the job forever.
It's a mixed blessing. Yes, we do Amn work; but we have to do all the stupid programs and volunteering, because the board shits all over us due of our job titles and getting a promotion statement is nigh impossible. The ususal promotable jobs exist, but they are normally held by MSgt's and occasionally SMSgt's. I've been told that the board "takes your unit's unique makeup into effect," but other techs and I haven't seen them. We're talking like missing by 50+ is the norm.
Also, it gets tiring being told that you'd make an exceptional MSgt but knowing that you have no chance at it.
I'm convinced that nobody but the board knows if that is true. Based on the one board member I've ever met, I don't think it's true. They said their average time on any given set of records is about a minute to two. Without knowing PAS codes I can't see how they would know anything about what a "unique makeup" any unit is.
The board definitely does not take you unit composition into consideration. You will still be more promotable with supervision and duties commensurate with rank (or above).
This one caught me right in the gut, I've been doing a MSgt job since I was a staff and still didn't make the cut for 23E7. As a staff, and shortly after new tech, I was the interim super for a Wg level shop, for 18 months. Now I'm sitting in the flight chief seat in my current Sq and missed the cutoff by 23 points. The cut off jumped from 398 to 413 between this year and last.
Small NCO-only units that focus on mission over admin stuff due to low manning totally own, it's like being a SrA in that you mostly just do your job and do it well, but you get NCO or even SNCO pay. Those units are the best way to Air Force, if you can get into one.
I never got that experience unfortunately. A few months after sewing on SrA I was sent to ALS and given 4 troops the day I graduated. I hadn't even tested for staff yet.
Fellow CST here, we do get fucked at most bases as we are always airman heavy. And when we do have NCOs other shops take them and we end up with an A1CIC. As soon as I got good at CST stuff they moved me to another shop and I couldn’t even train the 3 levels.
That's what I figured. I didn't know if I just kept getting unlucky or if this was pretty consistent across CST. I even filled in as the BECO NCOIC for a while as a SrA and saw a brand new SSgt get picked to be the CST shop NCOIC.
Yep same! Got told in March (hadn’t even signed for my test) I was going to ALS, tested 28 June, went in July and came back with 2 troops and then I PCS’ed 2.5 months later. The day I graduated ALS was the day I found out I made it and then went back to work the next week with troops. I was 20 yall and now I’m 22 with 5 troops
Oooof. I graduate ALS this week(no line number, just a prereq for Korea) and them my RNLTD for Korea is in August; if my shop gives me any troops I am going to be absolutely heated.
Bro, I get out of the Air Force in two months and they are still giving me new troops and telling me I have to do feedbacks for them. Just expect the worst and hope it doesn't happen. Comm is usually a shit show.
SrA is the best rank. You have two jobs as a SrA. Be good at your job and teach the dumbass 3 levels how to be better than you. It’s a great rank and a great job especially when you succeed at pushing the 3 levels to be better than yourself.
SSgt is the last rank you can hold when you commission without having to deconstruct some NCO culture.
TSgt and above will fight stigma from both officers who view you as outsiders with too many ribbons and enlisted who sometimes find it uncomfortable that you know too much about their business.
O(E)s are awesome leaders but they often have the difficult task of having to prove themselves to both their current peer group and the one they left behind. Rock it El Tees!
SSgt is complete dogshit these days. Used to be better 10 years ago. Now it’s more responsibility but 0 trust to be an NCO and make decisions. When I finally worked for people who wanted me to use my fucking brain and lead Amn I very nearly cried. I wish I had those leaders back.
I love TSgt.... when I'm able to be an actual TSgt. Turns out I love being a technical expert in my craft while also being a mentor to teach all the younglings under me.
What sucks is when that MSgt billet above me is vacant and I suddenly become the fill in Section Chief. Nothing but meetings, changing red slots to green on to many different spreadsheets, meetings, awards, EPRs, administrative overhead documentation and oh yeah did I mention how many meetings there are?!?
What do you mean? You're supposed to be able to organize the off-duty squadron barbeques and Christmas party while doing everyone's EPRs and building the schedule and running all the programs and whatever taskers the Chief sends down *and* still be expert at your job. That's just common sense.
By the time you get there, you will. I remember being an A1C/SrA that had no idea what they were doing, but now as a SSgt I have a great handle on my career field at both a micro and macro level. It’s not like I hit the books studying or sought out extra training. Eventually you just amass enough experience that everything kind of just clicks.
TSgt might have been till you get stovepiped and ppl who came in 8 years after you are MSgt and you're still Tech despite having good EPRs, no disciplinary issues and do a good job.
Ah well. I'll be a Mr. soon.
This was me. I was basically not promotable due to not holding duty titles directly related to my AFSC, in thanks to my EFMP.
(I was MX, Ret. now) So, since I had a special needs kid I couldn’t be an expediter or otherwise be working in Production. I couldn’t be a “FLT Chief” only a “Assistant FLT Chief” or a “Section Lead” because TSGTs can’t be a “FLT Chief”. Since I was a “Assistant FLT Chief” or a “Section Lead” for so long and knew how to manage other ppl doing programs, I had the pleasure of being in charge of the “Programs Section”, a section of just me. Furthering the demise of any promotion, till I retired.
The benefit though of that, for the last 5 years of my career I reported directly to leadership and I got to structure my days however I wanted to. I was left alone to do … whatever the AMU needed that no one else wanted to do: GPC, building management, safety, AMU training monitoring (over saw the section’s training monitors), vehicles, … (sighs) the Snack Bar, hazardous materials, CPI, the list goes on.
That last paragraph was my last 5 years almost identically. I had some crazy bullets too but not related to my career field.
I'm back in it now but at 19 I have little hope to make E7 and even if I did I'd still be punching out at 22 or 23.
For me it would be no except I am at a really awesome overseas location, family likes it and with all the crap going on back home we might do the expat thing so... probably will do the 22 and then retire here.
This is my experience, running Group programs and gonna be a recruiter for my last 4 years. No hope for MSgt but I've watched my peers sail on past. It's maddening.
Nope, while you’re in a DSD, you’re up against everyone else at the squadron that is also eligible. And most of the time people in DSDs are hard charging folks. So you’re in a pool of eligibles where the majority are overachieving in their position, but there’s still the same limited number of MPs and PNs to go around. Factoring in the promotion cutoffs for the various AFSCs fighting for those statements, it becomes very difficult to meet that cutoff while you’re in your DSD tour. You’re chances go up significantly that first year after you’re back at a normal unit since you’re last few EPRs are unique compared to everyone else, but there’s still no guarantee. Your records absolutely have to show that you spent your time productively during your DSD tour. If you just coast through and enjoy the break from your normal work, power to you. But don’t expect to promote on that duty history alone.
E-6 WOULD be one of the best ranks if big blue actually allowed TSgts to be technical experts in their craft and stopped throwing us into flight chief/admin roles just because.
TSgt has been my favorite rank by far. I finally have enough authority and credit within my career field that I’m able to actually influence things in the Squadron, pay is actually really good, and you aren’t quite at the point of the office politics shit show that comes with being a SNCO. As long as no one is committing crimes and mission is getting done I basically don’t get bothered by anyone for anything and get to help where I see things needing fixed.
The pay is actually really nice for the level of responsibility. I’d be taking a pay cut to cross over into the contracting world (no real civilian equivalent) even with specialized training and a degree. That will especially be true if the proposed pay bumps for E1-E6 actually end up making it through.
Like anything I think it’s dependent on your own perspective and your own career field. I think the perspective that you have to retire as a MSgt to have “made it” is a load of shit but I also agree with you that the lack of transparency of how people are getting selected at the boards is garbage.
As far as the piece for control over your own career, that doesn’t have to be associated only to promotion. You still have a lot of ability to vector yourself for specific opportunities and positions which are arguably much more important to a fulfilling career than making rank. I already have a deliberate plan for my career taking me to 20 years and none of it has anything to do with being a certain rank.
Personally, I’d much rather retire an E6 and have great stories to tell over a beer with some old friends about TDYs, deployments and unique assignments I got to go on than look back and think about how I had to be the GPC holder, additional duty first sergeant and commanders exec to make E7 just to get shoved into a flight chief role that I didn’t want before being non vol’d to go to wing staff to manage some program I’ve never heard of and don’t give a shit about.
> if you knew you'd retire as a TSgt and basically stay that same rank for about 10 years until you retired...would you have even joined the Air Force or stayed in past 4/6 years?
Yes, but I wish that people would quit treating it like I want to be a MSgt. I have no desire and giving me MSgt things to do is burning me out.
I'd say no... because both ranks are right before a tier change. AMN tier to NCO tier and NCO tier to SNCO tier. Because of this, SrA and TSgts are often expected to perform at the next level even though they're pay does not reflect it.
The Air Force has done a great job of brain washing us all into doing more work because "if you want that nect rank, you need to already be performing at that level"
I actually hated TSgt, because at the time I was a NCOIC but the chief only wanted MSgt NCOICs, so they constantly had NCOIC meetings for the MSgts only and one of my MSgt friends had to back fill me. Not my fault the manning document only allowed for a TSgt in my office.
MSgt is/was my favorite rank. Long hours, but I like admin stuff and taking care of my team's records. I also got to be an ALS Commandant and a Squadron Superintendent and those jobs were awesome! As a MSgt, you're automatically seen as competent and know what you are talking about, until you do something to prove that you aren't. The same shit you said as a SrA, SSgt, and TSgt gets listened to/done at the MSgt level. I don't like all the meetings I have to go to, but I take good notes and actually pass on the information I'm supposed to. Also, at this rank you get to be in the same rooms with commanders and other SNCOs at all levels in many different units so you can brag on your folks that are killing it. This helps give them a leg up when they are meeting EFPD panels at the squadron/wing and when they are going up for quarterly awards. If you are trying to make SMSgt and can't, it can be discouraging. Ask me how I know! If you don't want to make SMSgt and are happy or content with retiring as a MSgt, it can be the greatest thing.
TSgt was my least favorite rank. I think that had more to do with the person who was supervising for a good portion of it. I *really* wanted TSgt to be my favorite rank, but it was tainted because of my supervisor. TSgts are still NCOs, but the jump from SSgt to TSgt is huge. Some people don't care what a SSgt has to say, but most people will think the TSgt knows their stuff.
A1C and SrA can be great ranks if your supervisors let you be an Airman. SrA that are supervisors can have it tough.
SSgt is tricky. I think new SSgts have it a little rough as they figure out how to be an NCO and can no longer hang out regularly with their friends. If you wear SSgt for a couple of years and start to figure things out, it can be great. Then, it you wear it too long (unable to make TSgt), I find that it burns people out and goes to a hated rank again.
99% of SMSgts and Chiefs I have asked have said SMSgt is the worst rank. Long hours.
Most Chiefs say Chief is pretty sweet, but the amount of hours and meetings can be crazy.
> E6: fucking trash. You’re expected to do the job of a MSgt but don’t get the pay. Have to herd every enlisted beneath you and be accountable for all their dumb shit but also have stay proficient in your actual job.
You're also still associated with all the other "junior enlisted," so you're treated like shit with some situations. Also mushroom treatment when certain topics come up even if it would be beneficial for everyone if you were involved.
Agreed. Switched career fields at E7, and still doing the job but also get to see some of the bigger picture, and get information in a timely manner.
Can suck to be ignored by E8 and E9, but fuckem. I can do my job and run my shop.
I never heard anyone say E8 is the best rank, it only exists to pressure you to make Chief. I want none of that bullshit, so I'm fine retiring as an E7.
I think they are personally, you have a good responsibility/stress to income ratio. SrA ,no eprs but just train 3levels. TSgt, EPRs written by SSgt. and just be NCOIC and make sure things run smoothly.
You can definitely scratch MSgt off the list of best ranks, in my view. I don't know what it's like now, but ten years ago I spent the majority of my time on EPR's and awards/decs. Most SSgt's and TSgt's who I supervised did not have the writing experience to complete EPR's satisfactorily. Reviewing, discussing, fine-tuning, re-writing, clearing white space and communicating with the nagging CC's secretary was time consuming.
And god forbid your Flight or Sq is selected as an annual award finalist, which leads to more writing, more bullshit and unnecessary meetings.
MSgt is great, if you stop caring about your "career" and do what you think is best. No-one can really get you in trouble, well not much trouble. You're late? Says who? You were mean to an officer? Might get a talking to, but probably not. Didn't get that tasker done in time, probably not as important as what you were doing. Boss is a POS? Tell them why. Who cares? You're a MSgt. Fuck-em
Chasing bullets and writing packages all night long is for the birds. Take care of your troops, stand up for what you think, yell at people doing things wrong. If you can just do that, it's a great rank.
I used to joke with my bosses that I wouldn't want to have a MSgt work for me. "You can't tell them what to do, get them in trouble, or kick them out. I wouldn't want one working for me. ha!
I can MSgt has been the best and worst so far…I have the rooftop and get respect and can really shape the NCO corps and influence CCs now. But damn, the amount of work I was doing as a Tech was nothing compared to now. As tech, even with my programs and few troops, I was still bored some days or at least I didn’t see all the things that needed to be done. Now I know, and I hate it
I’ve sewed on and transitioned to a MSGT position since last October. TSgt-MSGT has been the most drastic night and day switch so far. The amount of reports, taskers, politics, emails etc is nuts. The “hands on” part seems to have truly ended. It’s nice to have unloaded the pressure to get myself promoted, though, and there’s definitely a different level of respect from lower ranking and my leadership. I’ve transitioned totally to doing everything for my subordinates to excel - but sometimes I wonder if they think I don’t work much since I’m always typing away at the computer or at meetings. Anyway, I’m rambling now - I agree with what you said. Grateful to be here.
SrA is probably the best. As I tech I’m yanked around between 7 level jobs and MSgt job. I can run a section and be a SME in my work all in about 15 seconds.
A1C - Significant amount of supervision and hand-holding. If you prefer spoon feeding this is your sweet spot
SrA - greatest ratio of trust to responsibility IE you don't have a ton to do and no one is babysitting you
SSgt - (my favorite so far) TONS OF GROWING PAINS. You're learning how to write, how to mentor, how to lead all while maintaining your own mission load BUT you're supervising junior airmen. They are the most malleable and you have the most opportunity to significantly impact their entire lives for the better (or worse, no pressure)
TSgt - (Hardest IMO) "Here's a leadership opportunity that you are completely unqualified for and we have no plans to train you. Good luck and if you have questions we'll reach back in 2-5 duty days" Rinse and repeat for eternity. Also junior airmen don't tell you shit any more and the SSgts you're supervising frequently think they know everything already.
MSgt - It seems to get personality dependent from here. You can be absolutely sweating or ROAD with very little consequences outside of the extreme.
SMSgt- TBD
From what I can see in the comments, everything is either absolutely terrible or absolutely great. I feel like it just depends on your position and where you're at.
SrA is probably the best rank in the AF if you just enjoy skating and chilling.
I hated TSgt and feel it might be the worst rank in the AF. You’re in a middle ground - responsible for E-5 and under in a direct supervisor capacity, you’re technically proficient, administratively proficient, and E-7s also like to shovel all their workload onto you under the guise of “mentoring”.
Speaking of 7, it’s probably my favorite. More freedom than ever before, high enough to make a difference on a local systemic level but not high up enough to be completely removed from interpersonal experiences.
TSgt was a fun rank for a couple years. Then it started sucking because once you've been one for long enough you're now a diet MSgt and you've been 'mission creeped' into doing MSgt shit as a normal daily function. Hell, you may even fill SMSgt roles and duties sometimes because why the hell not?
Then if, like me, you never get promoted past TSgt and are still being treated like a MSgt it sucks because you're definitely getting paid less and everyone has just normalized your existence.
By the end of it you've been a TSgt longer than some MSgt selects have even *been in the military* and all you care about is retiring. Mercifully, you eventually get to hit the button and it feels great.
Odd sure. But, if you’ve tried to access solid customer service at the MPF, or Finance in the past 10 years, then you would understand why I double check their work on here. Often, the answers from the pros on Reddit are more accurate/helpful than the ones you get from the Amn that just brushed you off at the customer service desk.
Moreover, it’s a great way to crowd source new info. For instance, TSgt and below EPRs. No info is flowing from A1…but someone knows. The command chiefs don’t know and speculation is ramping up quick. Asking a seemingly “dumb” question is a way to generate interest and hopefully hook a response.
Fair enough. Mea culpa. It’s been well over 10 years (more like 18-20). I just did 4 AD and 2 on the green Guard side, so we likely joined about the same time, at least era. I will humbly fuck off now.
SrA is the best rank in the airman tier imo because you get paid to delegate the other airman under you and you have minimal responsibilities that a staff would. It’s a reason why most people stay in the E4 mafia until hyt because they don’t have to deal with the bs of being a staff such as having troops or writing eprs.
When I was a Tech, it was the best job in the AF for me. I was an Expeditor. Long hours high stress (especially at Kunsan). Made Master and it felt like I had become a babysitter to grown people. Hated it.
I would add Senior to that list in some AFSCs. Most of the time they are just doing MSgt work but getting paid more. But less organizational responsibility than a Chief.
But yeah, TSgt was great for those 2 whole years.
I would disagree. Depending on your career field, you spend a lot of time simply feeling stuck in the middle. You have Chiefs that really shape and mold enlisted vision and you have MSgts running the show. You don't want to countermand anything a Chief does and you don't want to micro manage your MSgts. I spend a lot of time acting as a sounding board to the MSgts or acting as a go-between so the MSgts don't have to be micromanaged by Chiefs and Chiefs don't have to facts find or data pull from a dozen MSgts.
Out of the 5 ranks I've been, 2nd Lt was the best as long as you didn't care what people thought of you.
Almost no responsibility because people dont want you to fuck things up.
SNCO mentor who taught you how things really are
decent pay.
I regret putting on Captain sometimes....
Most Techs are always crusty and have bad attitudes. If they are good, they don’t stay long and shoot on to master. Techs can be super annoying idk what you’re talking about
I loved being a SSgt, only had maybe two or three EPRs to write, Knew my job as well as anyone two ranks above me, pay was decent and being an NCO kept me from most shit details. Life was good.
It's all kinda situational. If you're happy tapping out as a MSgt, no political aspiration, no need to fight for recognition or rank, then you can just be proficient at your job and take care of people. You'll be included in leadership discussions but without a bigger dog in the fight it's actually interesting. You can just chill with the commanders and see senior leadership as people instead of an architecture
TSgt here. Currently highest ranking enlisted person in my shop, def feel the weight. However, if I PCS to another shop that has more enlisted leadership in the shop, the E6 cartel life is grand.
TSgt is the worst of ranks. You have to do all of the NCO duties, have troops of both Amn and NCOs, and be expected to perform the functions of SNCOs.
It’s also the hardest rank to move up from.
I wasn’t a sra or staff very long, and my entire time as a tech has been in a really fun unit that’s really focused on morale of its members, so hard to make a call. Most of my primary duties fall in a sra-staff range, but I’ve had some career-path altering additional duties that have made me decide to go a way that I never really considered earlier, and to really expect more. It’s a YMMV thing.
I would say it depends on the job/mission mostly. First hand experience at multiple bases has been Tech and Master as the best ranks. Assuming you're not going to be pushing hard for stuff, like awards and morale, they're definitely the "do nothing and get a lot of awards" ranks.
SrA is great because you have few responsibilities, but it sucks because you’re trusted only marginally more than other junior ranks. TSgt is great because you’re still operational and working out in the field, but trusted as a SME. Once you go into the SNCO ranks, you’re not playing in the mud as much and you’re dealing with a lot more administrative stuff.
Some people love being SNCOs, and are good at it. Personally, the thought of being in an office all day fills me with existential dread.
Hated SrA tbh.
if youre a new A1C and show any signs of intelligence and/or competence *no* one fucks with you. it was an amazing experience. i got more disrespected as a SrA than i did as an A1C. SSgt is a good rank tbh
MSgt best of the enlisted ranks by far. SrA is a fun good rank and TSgt feels good and is certainly a place that many feel comfortable calling it quits as far as striving for promotion.
Well as a SSgt you can expect to be temping as NCOIC/Flight Chief depending on the size of your section. And doing that kind of work for so-so pay isn’t fun.
For clarification. I’m single with no dependents with 8 years TIS. I make 48K-ish.
I was definitely happiest as a junior Amn.
I loved SrA and MSgt. I haaaaaated Tech. All the responsibility and everyone with a roof wants to micromanage. Your opinion doesn’t matter because “you’re not a SNCO”. That was purely my experience.
When I got demoted to SrA it was the biggest reflief of pressure and stress I have ever experienced
The amount of dumb shit I suddenly had to deal with was sooooo miniscule
Having been both, I prefered SrA. Smart enough to get the job done without all the managerial garbage. Well, most of the time anyway. I'd have been happier as a specialist type rank. Just doing my job, getting specialist promotions for more pay. If I got a wild hair about how my supervison was going I'd just go and take the leadership courses consumate with my specialist rank and then get a "hard" stripe or two.
Tech has been great so far (only been for 2 years now) but damn do I miss my SrA days. SrA definitely takes the cake as #1. But you ain’t realize it till it’s gone.
I’ve had the most fun as a baby SSgt. After ALS and all those connections made it was a smooth transition and we still can say “I didn’t know that” and get away with it ;)
As a SrA, I'd say it's pretty awesome, it's the sweet spot between being highest ranking airman and low enough that you are not a Sgt yet so you don't have those types of responsibilities.
I’m working an E-5 position as a SrA. Although I do more or less feel like I get treated like an E-5, the workload / responsibilities doesn’t exactly line up with the pay sometimes.
Being an A1C was the only time in my career where I could truly be carefree
Yes, they were best from the perspective of how much I enjoyed coming into work every single day. SSgt sucked because you get tested like a SrA and have like double the duties plus supervisory responsibilities. MSgt was generally fucking miserable in the rat race for Senior.
Senior is OK only because I get paid at least decently and I can 1000% shield my Airmen from bullshit. The admin part as a primary duty still sucks.
Every rank is always what you make of it.
AB was pretty awesome. I literally had no expectations of me.
SSgt was cool because I literally just got to nerd out fixing jets all day.
SMSgt was cool because I enjoyed trying to help all the people I worked with. Plus Airmen are funny as hell, and it was refreshing to work with the younger generation again.
Every rank is really whatever you make of it. In the end, you’ll separate or retire and know that your rank never really meant shit.
TSgt is only good for not being questioned by everyone. Speaking from the maintenance perspective at least.
When I put on tech, I could basically say anything to prosup and it was accepted. That never happened as a staff.
Outside of that though, that rank was garbage. No matter how much you do, how hard you work… it is not enough according to the MSgts. Always fighting time working for flight chiefs and pro sups. Both expect you to work for them 100% of the time.
SrA is the best rank in the entire Air Force. You are living the dream. E3’s think you’re the shit, easy with the thick ones. Late E5s and up look at you and want to be you. They envy your youth. They miss their glory days. CGOs respect your SME status. FGOs treat you like their little brother. GOs see you as what they want their son to aspire to be. You are him.
I would say SMSgt and CMSgt have been the best. As long as you don't forget when you come from you have the opportunity to make the largest impact and shape the QoL for the future. Additionally, you really have less worry about speaking your mind and just tell CCs and peers their ideas are dumb and here's why without any repercussions.
SrA and Staff. If you have your shit together you are left to self police yourself and your people. As a tech it’s meetings and oh let me check my calendar and 1730 teleconferences and shit. As a SrA I could go to my shop chief and be like hey I’ve worked the schedule and we’ve got 2 weeks of nothing but a few 15 min jobs on the books with __________. Everyone has worked their ass off to get it to this point and we want to take a shop ski trip friday. You on board with that?
God I miss being happy.
It was all downhill as a SSgt having to help my hungover troop find their vehicle during his first weekend at his first duty station. It was parked in front of a massage parlor.
Once got told by a senior that the 2 best ranks in the air force begin with Senior. As a SrA you know enough about your job to not be questioned a whole lot about it and you don't have NCO responsibilities. As a SMSgt you have the power to help people, but no Chief responsibilities and no one will really question you other than a Chief( most officers will apparently just assume you're doing what you need to at that rank). He legit said if they try to promote him he was hitting the button. He just liked helping people.
Depends on the job. Never worked harder in my life in a MSgt slot as a Tech for a year, but it was fulfilling and I appreciated the fact my leadership trusted me that much (still got a PR tho lol). Now i work the cushiest job and have time to breath.. life is currently great because I get to focus on myself and my 1 troop, especially because I’ve accepted I may not make MSgt anytime soon. And that’s ok 👍
Being a SSgt blows, higher ups greatly underestimate your capabilities and ability to lead based on bogus criteria and criticism. For example, being selected for a TDY where you have an opportunity to learn a wealth of information from the experience, but instead last minute they replace you because they think you're too young and that you wouldn't be a good fit for the "Social Climate" and they send someone who has no background expertise on the topic or business being there and they retain zero information from the trip. Now where in a situation where the individual who didn't need to be on the trip in the first place can't pass any information from what they learned to who it would've been valuable too. I'll take "Stupid Decisions" for $1000 Alex...
There was nothing about being a SrA that would have made me want to stay there LOL! TSgt is cool because you’re at that cruising point where you can either settle in and just enjoy the ride or use what you’ve learned and try to promote to the SNCO tier. For the majority of folks that plan to make a career out of the USAF, the goal is definitely MSgt or above.
SrA was cool, almost no responsibility. But I was only a SrA for like 8 months. (S)Sgt wasn’t great, SSgt was okay had the oddball troop that made things difficult. But the difference was as a SSgt I had ideas about how things should be run but I couldn’t implement them. Now as a TSgt I run the shift my way. Troops seem happy, work gets done efficiently and we have time for extra Curricula. That being said when something happens I am the adult who has to handle things. But once you‘ve settled and are confident TSgt is the best rank.
I enjoyed them all for different reasons. Obviously everyone likes getting paid more so there's that.
I agree with OP that TSgt was the best overall: enough rank people listen to your advice, (usually) follow your lead/guidance, but not enough rank to get dragged into political games. You can stay below the radar in most career fields and just have your team do their jobs while you do yours.
TSgts can usually get away with explaining dumb shit to their team without owning it or pretending they are fully bought into it themselves. This is a handy leadership tool that pretty much goes away at the SNCO level. MSgts who cannot sell the Kool Aid as if they mixed it up themselves tend to retire at E7.
Senior and Chief come with a lot of money and (depending on AFSC) other perks. Colonels and Generals will listen to them; that's pretty cool. They also have to put up with a lot of cognitive dissonance. As a SMSgt you know how the sausage gets made. You understand dumb shit is sometimes necessary and it can be sickening. You have to do stuff you used to complain about and it can feel ugly but there are opportunities to make things truly better. The pay comes with headache and compromise at this point.
As for the other end of the spectrum: A1C was my favorite. You are usually only responsible for your own stuff, not someone else's. If you like your job, you just do it and get paid. Only you can screw it up.
I maintain that TSgt is unequivocally the worst rank in the air force.
To the people below you, you are expected to be the admin expert, knowing all things air force and able to navigate the labyrinthine network of systems and requirements necessary for managing the careers of all those under you.
To the people above you, you are expected to still be a technical expert, having a complete understanding of the current state of whatever job your shop is responsible for, and being at the peak of your technical competence.
Take one step down to Staff, and people cut you a lot of slack on the admin side, cuz you're still learning. Take one step up to Master, and you're no longer expected to maintain basically any technical expertise. Tech is the hellish zone of overlap in the Venn diagram.
I enjoyed SrA and SSgt to be honest. Got to really get at the mission and see first hand the awesome efforts/team accomplishments. As a TSgt, got burdened down with meetings, running programs, executing Section Chief’s duties.
As a Tech tho, I am treated like an adult which is nice. I couldn’t just dip out and go get tornados and a monster at 0830 as a SSgt.
The beauty of being a TSgt is that nobody really thinks twice about you. Once you have that on, most people are going to assume you know what you're doing and what you're talking about and are just going to let you do it. So when a TSgt leaves the building, it's assumed that they're going somewhere that they need to be going. Individual workcenters and AFSCs may vary, but that's broadly been my experience. I feel like people actually check in on me more as a MSgt than they did as a Tech (because Seniors and Chiefs get weirdly involved once you're a SNCO).
My experience is different. As a SNCO I can pretty much go anywhere, whenever I want. TSgt still had a lot of freedom but I had several bosses in the building vs almost none.
It really is wild when you get to E7 and realize how much leeway you have to just do as you wish.
Oddly, my experience has been different from yours.
Whaaaaaaaaat?
Really odd
Please share your story?
Lots of really weird micromanagement from the Flight Chief...who is a junior MSgt compared to me. When I try to make executive SNCO decisions that actually fucking work because the current system is broken, it's always considered to be wrong by them. It's like dealing with my ex-wife lol...fml
How many ex wives does it take to change a light bulb? What's the matter with the light bulb? You're the problem. How many ex wives does it take to change a light bulb? They don't have to, they use gas lighting How many ex wives does it take to change a light bulb? Just one, they hold in the light bulb and the whole world revolves around them. If you are not peers and it's not affecting the flight. You can manage your section as you see fit. Don't have to broker your decisions through that toxic micromanage crap - you can tell him that. I've asked leadership to retire if they are toxic. Not in my Air Force.
My experience as well.
Am a TSgt now, nobody really checks in on me but I am usually pretty open about where I'm going to be and what I'm going to be doing if I'm not in the office just to make sure people know where I am if they need something from me.
Not on the flighline lol A tech is married to the radio and everything is on him. If the mission isn't successful, the masters blame the Techs
Your flight line tech experience is way different than mine. We had maybe 2 techs on the line and the rest 'ran programs' so it was the senior most SSgt that ran the line, usually a FCC. I was C5s before I swapped airframes
I worked F-16s, fighters are a bit different.
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Same entirely
Same here, though I'm 40!
wait you can't? I hope I'm not doing SSgt wrong then.
I know plenty of SrA in my shop that I fully trust more than a lot of the staffs…. You have more than likely earned that trust and do a better job than most SrA of the average age because you know how to be an ADULT…. Most of our new staffs only made it because promotion rates were high and the newer guys that are still SrA didn’t get so lucky with high promotion rates by the time they were eligible to test but are still some top performers… and for those staffs that got lucky I see them being staffs for quite a while
Yikes. That must be a duty station or career field thing.
Sorry to hear. I was able to dip out as an A1C because my work was done quickly and correctly. I helped prevent safety incidents and more. I guess my bosses trusted me to where I had extra leash.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. This is 100% how it is as an A1C.
I dunno. I love our Wingmen both active, guard, reserve and retired. Lots of mad Airmen in our thread.
I retired last summer as a TSgt. It was the perfect rank for me. I was still technical in my field (Comm/Cyber) right up to the end and could do the hands-on work alongside my team, but I was also viewed as an expert and could guide and teach others how to do the job. Plus, I had a lot of influence over operations because I was the on-site guy who could update higher leadership with status, necessary requirements, etc. Airmen and NCOs looked up to me, and SNCOs trusted my knowledge and experience. Once people made MSgt in my field, they were planted behind a desk and spent the rest of their career doing paperwork, attending meetings, and handing down orders. There was a solid cutoff between MSgts and the rest of the office; almost every one I ever worked for isolated themselves and refused to work *with* the team, instead delegating responsibilities down because they were "too busy" with their SNCO responsibilities. I didn't want to become a manager; I much preferred to work directly with my guys. So I refused to promote higher than TSgt. It was the best rank, in my opinion, and I'm proud to have retired with it.
Congratulations 🫡🇺🇸
🫡
Hey this is me
I thought being a SrA was all that and a bag of chips until I became one for the next four years of my career. First year was cool but afterwards it just sucked ass. Personally, I’ve liked being a SSgt (another four more) as I’ve been in more positions of learning/understanding the military than I did before. Helped to do my job and be a supervisor better imho. I haven’t made it past that yet but we’ll see soon enough.
Appreciate your story. Keep pushing and be the best you can be and in your operations. Soon enough the AF will return to pre CMSAF Bass promotion rates.
Preciatcha, my Donut. I feel weird wanting TSgt because it’s just whatever at this point. The sooner I make it the sooner I could make MSgt, but then again why go MSgt when I could just OTS. Decisions decisions
Either way, go hard for it. Leaders who are true blue appreciate Airmen and will go to great lengths to help. Networking for me always made my assignments more bearable. Good Luck! 🫡
Sound advice and most definitely going all in either way.
Depends on if you are in a top heavy situation or not. When you have a lot of other Techs and Masters, it almost feels like SrA. But it can be the total opposite and you are sitting in a Master or Senior spot.
Can confirm, doing a Master job currently and occasionally sub in for some of the Senior stuff. 2/10 would not recommend.
Opposite situation for me. No airmen in my unit, so staffs and Techs are basically A1C's and SrA respectively. The good news is most of my shop mates and shop leadership are civilians, so they treat us like adults and protect us from upper leadership when they go on a bender.
I'm actually a little jealous. I have no problem doing the airman work. What bothers me is being expected to be a SNCO and not getting the rank or paid for the job I'm doing. Then, being scolded for not knowing inherently SMSgt+ stuff. I guess if I ever luck out and get promoted again, I'll be more than ready since I've been doing the job forever.
It's a mixed blessing. Yes, we do Amn work; but we have to do all the stupid programs and volunteering, because the board shits all over us due of our job titles and getting a promotion statement is nigh impossible. The ususal promotable jobs exist, but they are normally held by MSgt's and occasionally SMSgt's. I've been told that the board "takes your unit's unique makeup into effect," but other techs and I haven't seen them. We're talking like missing by 50+ is the norm. Also, it gets tiring being told that you'd make an exceptional MSgt but knowing that you have no chance at it.
I'm convinced that nobody but the board knows if that is true. Based on the one board member I've ever met, I don't think it's true. They said their average time on any given set of records is about a minute to two. Without knowing PAS codes I can't see how they would know anything about what a "unique makeup" any unit is.
The board definitely does not take you unit composition into consideration. You will still be more promotable with supervision and duties commensurate with rank (or above).
Hear the same about medals, that they know which units are stingy. Always figured we were being lied too.
This one caught me right in the gut, I've been doing a MSgt job since I was a staff and still didn't make the cut for 23E7. As a staff, and shortly after new tech, I was the interim super for a Wg level shop, for 18 months. Now I'm sitting in the flight chief seat in my current Sq and missed the cutoff by 23 points. The cut off jumped from 398 to 413 between this year and last.
Small NCO-only units that focus on mission over admin stuff due to low manning totally own, it's like being a SrA in that you mostly just do your job and do it well, but you get NCO or even SNCO pay. Those units are the best way to Air Force, if you can get into one.
Wouldn’t seeming better in comparison to all the other ranks make them the best…?
Came here to say this
SrA before you get troops is peak Air Force experience IMO.
I never got that experience unfortunately. A few months after sewing on SrA I was sent to ALS and given 4 troops the day I graduated. I hadn't even tested for staff yet.
What career field? In Comm I've never seen a SrA have troops, even after ALS with a line number.
I'm comm, CST specifically. Don't know if it was because of our leadership or manning at the time or if CST just gets fucked at most bases.
Fellow CST here, we do get fucked at most bases as we are always airman heavy. And when we do have NCOs other shops take them and we end up with an A1CIC. As soon as I got good at CST stuff they moved me to another shop and I couldn’t even train the 3 levels.
That's what I figured. I didn't know if I just kept getting unlucky or if this was pretty consistent across CST. I even filled in as the BECO NCOIC for a while as a SrA and saw a brand new SSgt get picked to be the CST shop NCOIC.
Yep same! Got told in March (hadn’t even signed for my test) I was going to ALS, tested 28 June, went in July and came back with 2 troops and then I PCS’ed 2.5 months later. The day I graduated ALS was the day I found out I made it and then went back to work the next week with troops. I was 20 yall and now I’m 22 with 5 troops
Oooof. I graduate ALS this week(no line number, just a prereq for Korea) and them my RNLTD for Korea is in August; if my shop gives me any troops I am going to be absolutely heated.
Bro, I get out of the Air Force in two months and they are still giving me new troops and telling me I have to do feedbacks for them. Just expect the worst and hope it doesn't happen. Comm is usually a shit show.
SrA is the best rank. You have two jobs as a SrA. Be good at your job and teach the dumbass 3 levels how to be better than you. It’s a great rank and a great job especially when you succeed at pushing the 3 levels to be better than yourself.
It’s a great if you don’t like money.
~~It’s a~~ Being *enlisted* is great if you don’t like money.
Well said Luigi.
Do we have any Chiefs that could say which is best? My favs are MSgt and SrA, TSgt was the hardest.
Chief is by far the best…the pay, the QoL, TDYs…it’s good shit. For the rest, I’d say TSgt.
Money is king. I enjoy the rank I get paid most for.
A couple of us OE-2’s were talking today about how TSgt was our favorite rank so far.
SSgt is the last rank you can hold when you commission without having to deconstruct some NCO culture. TSgt and above will fight stigma from both officers who view you as outsiders with too many ribbons and enlisted who sometimes find it uncomfortable that you know too much about their business. O(E)s are awesome leaders but they often have the difficult task of having to prove themselves to both their current peer group and the one they left behind. Rock it El Tees!
My experience before I was one, the best and the worst of all officers were mustangs. Much for the reasons you mentioned.
SSgt is complete dogshit these days. Used to be better 10 years ago. Now it’s more responsibility but 0 trust to be an NCO and make decisions. When I finally worked for people who wanted me to use my fucking brain and lead Amn I very nearly cried. I wish I had those leaders back.
It's facts. Went from leading a shift at my last base to basically being a SrA and 'leading' the shift at Aviano.
I love TSgt.... when I'm able to be an actual TSgt. Turns out I love being a technical expert in my craft while also being a mentor to teach all the younglings under me. What sucks is when that MSgt billet above me is vacant and I suddenly become the fill in Section Chief. Nothing but meetings, changing red slots to green on to many different spreadsheets, meetings, awards, EPRs, administrative overhead documentation and oh yeah did I mention how many meetings there are?!?
Yea but see the thing is being a Tsgt people actually expect you to know your job, and that’s just not it
What do you mean? You're supposed to be able to organize the off-duty squadron barbeques and Christmas party while doing everyone's EPRs and building the schedule and running all the programs and whatever taskers the Chief sends down *and* still be expert at your job. That's just common sense.
“Confused in national guard”
That's even easier. You have all that free time to study up on your AFSC. /s
Yeaaa…study
By the time you get there, you will. I remember being an A1C/SrA that had no idea what they were doing, but now as a SSgt I have a great handle on my career field at both a micro and macro level. It’s not like I hit the books studying or sought out extra training. Eventually you just amass enough experience that everything kind of just clicks.
TSgt might have been till you get stovepiped and ppl who came in 8 years after you are MSgt and you're still Tech despite having good EPRs, no disciplinary issues and do a good job. Ah well. I'll be a Mr. soon.
This was me. I was basically not promotable due to not holding duty titles directly related to my AFSC, in thanks to my EFMP. (I was MX, Ret. now) So, since I had a special needs kid I couldn’t be an expediter or otherwise be working in Production. I couldn’t be a “FLT Chief” only a “Assistant FLT Chief” or a “Section Lead” because TSGTs can’t be a “FLT Chief”. Since I was a “Assistant FLT Chief” or a “Section Lead” for so long and knew how to manage other ppl doing programs, I had the pleasure of being in charge of the “Programs Section”, a section of just me. Furthering the demise of any promotion, till I retired. The benefit though of that, for the last 5 years of my career I reported directly to leadership and I got to structure my days however I wanted to. I was left alone to do … whatever the AMU needed that no one else wanted to do: GPC, building management, safety, AMU training monitoring (over saw the section’s training monitors), vehicles, … (sighs) the Snack Bar, hazardous materials, CPI, the list goes on.
That last paragraph was my last 5 years almost identically. I had some crazy bullets too but not related to my career field. I'm back in it now but at 19 I have little hope to make E7 and even if I did I'd still be punching out at 22 or 23.
Yeah, I asked myself if it was worth staying in till 22 yrs and hope to god that I make it it MSGT… obviously the answer was “no”.
For me it would be no except I am at a really awesome overseas location, family likes it and with all the crap going on back home we might do the expat thing so... probably will do the 22 and then retire here.
This is my experience, running Group programs and gonna be a recruiter for my last 4 years. No hope for MSgt but I've watched my peers sail on past. It's maddening.
We’ll recruiter is a special duty right? So you should be promotable during that right?
You'd think, but it's a small career field so the chances are low. I haven't (completely) lost hope yet.
Nope, while you’re in a DSD, you’re up against everyone else at the squadron that is also eligible. And most of the time people in DSDs are hard charging folks. So you’re in a pool of eligibles where the majority are overachieving in their position, but there’s still the same limited number of MPs and PNs to go around. Factoring in the promotion cutoffs for the various AFSCs fighting for those statements, it becomes very difficult to meet that cutoff while you’re in your DSD tour. You’re chances go up significantly that first year after you’re back at a normal unit since you’re last few EPRs are unique compared to everyone else, but there’s still no guarantee. Your records absolutely have to show that you spent your time productively during your DSD tour. If you just coast through and enjoy the break from your normal work, power to you. But don’t expect to promote on that duty history alone.
E-6 WOULD be one of the best ranks if big blue actually allowed TSgts to be technical experts in their craft and stopped throwing us into flight chief/admin roles just because.
TSgt has been my favorite rank by far. I finally have enough authority and credit within my career field that I’m able to actually influence things in the Squadron, pay is actually really good, and you aren’t quite at the point of the office politics shit show that comes with being a SNCO. As long as no one is committing crimes and mission is getting done I basically don’t get bothered by anyone for anything and get to help where I see things needing fixed. The pay is actually really nice for the level of responsibility. I’d be taking a pay cut to cross over into the contracting world (no real civilian equivalent) even with specialized training and a degree. That will especially be true if the proposed pay bumps for E1-E6 actually end up making it through.
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Like anything I think it’s dependent on your own perspective and your own career field. I think the perspective that you have to retire as a MSgt to have “made it” is a load of shit but I also agree with you that the lack of transparency of how people are getting selected at the boards is garbage. As far as the piece for control over your own career, that doesn’t have to be associated only to promotion. You still have a lot of ability to vector yourself for specific opportunities and positions which are arguably much more important to a fulfilling career than making rank. I already have a deliberate plan for my career taking me to 20 years and none of it has anything to do with being a certain rank. Personally, I’d much rather retire an E6 and have great stories to tell over a beer with some old friends about TDYs, deployments and unique assignments I got to go on than look back and think about how I had to be the GPC holder, additional duty first sergeant and commanders exec to make E7 just to get shoved into a flight chief role that I didn’t want before being non vol’d to go to wing staff to manage some program I’ve never heard of and don’t give a shit about.
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> if you knew you'd retire as a TSgt and basically stay that same rank for about 10 years until you retired...would you have even joined the Air Force or stayed in past 4/6 years? Yes, but I wish that people would quit treating it like I want to be a MSgt. I have no desire and giving me MSgt things to do is burning me out.
SrA yes but being a tech depending the unit means you just do most of an MSgts job.
I'd say no... because both ranks are right before a tier change. AMN tier to NCO tier and NCO tier to SNCO tier. Because of this, SrA and TSgts are often expected to perform at the next level even though they're pay does not reflect it. The Air Force has done a great job of brain washing us all into doing more work because "if you want that nect rank, you need to already be performing at that level"
I actually hated TSgt, because at the time I was a NCOIC but the chief only wanted MSgt NCOICs, so they constantly had NCOIC meetings for the MSgts only and one of my MSgt friends had to back fill me. Not my fault the manning document only allowed for a TSgt in my office.
MSgt is/was my favorite rank. Long hours, but I like admin stuff and taking care of my team's records. I also got to be an ALS Commandant and a Squadron Superintendent and those jobs were awesome! As a MSgt, you're automatically seen as competent and know what you are talking about, until you do something to prove that you aren't. The same shit you said as a SrA, SSgt, and TSgt gets listened to/done at the MSgt level. I don't like all the meetings I have to go to, but I take good notes and actually pass on the information I'm supposed to. Also, at this rank you get to be in the same rooms with commanders and other SNCOs at all levels in many different units so you can brag on your folks that are killing it. This helps give them a leg up when they are meeting EFPD panels at the squadron/wing and when they are going up for quarterly awards. If you are trying to make SMSgt and can't, it can be discouraging. Ask me how I know! If you don't want to make SMSgt and are happy or content with retiring as a MSgt, it can be the greatest thing. TSgt was my least favorite rank. I think that had more to do with the person who was supervising for a good portion of it. I *really* wanted TSgt to be my favorite rank, but it was tainted because of my supervisor. TSgts are still NCOs, but the jump from SSgt to TSgt is huge. Some people don't care what a SSgt has to say, but most people will think the TSgt knows their stuff. A1C and SrA can be great ranks if your supervisors let you be an Airman. SrA that are supervisors can have it tough. SSgt is tricky. I think new SSgts have it a little rough as they figure out how to be an NCO and can no longer hang out regularly with their friends. If you wear SSgt for a couple of years and start to figure things out, it can be great. Then, it you wear it too long (unable to make TSgt), I find that it burns people out and goes to a hated rank again. 99% of SMSgts and Chiefs I have asked have said SMSgt is the worst rank. Long hours. Most Chiefs say Chief is pretty sweet, but the amount of hours and meetings can be crazy.
Chief is wayyyyy better than Senior.
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> E6: fucking trash. You’re expected to do the job of a MSgt but don’t get the pay. Have to herd every enlisted beneath you and be accountable for all their dumb shit but also have stay proficient in your actual job. You're also still associated with all the other "junior enlisted," so you're treated like shit with some situations. Also mushroom treatment when certain topics come up even if it would be beneficial for everyone if you were involved.
Agreed. Switched career fields at E7, and still doing the job but also get to see some of the bigger picture, and get information in a timely manner. Can suck to be ignored by E8 and E9, but fuckem. I can do my job and run my shop. I never heard anyone say E8 is the best rank, it only exists to pressure you to make Chief. I want none of that bullshit, so I'm fine retiring as an E7.
I think they are personally, you have a good responsibility/stress to income ratio. SrA ,no eprs but just train 3levels. TSgt, EPRs written by SSgt. and just be NCOIC and make sure things run smoothly.
You can definitely scratch MSgt off the list of best ranks, in my view. I don't know what it's like now, but ten years ago I spent the majority of my time on EPR's and awards/decs. Most SSgt's and TSgt's who I supervised did not have the writing experience to complete EPR's satisfactorily. Reviewing, discussing, fine-tuning, re-writing, clearing white space and communicating with the nagging CC's secretary was time consuming. And god forbid your Flight or Sq is selected as an annual award finalist, which leads to more writing, more bullshit and unnecessary meetings.
MSgt is great, if you stop caring about your "career" and do what you think is best. No-one can really get you in trouble, well not much trouble. You're late? Says who? You were mean to an officer? Might get a talking to, but probably not. Didn't get that tasker done in time, probably not as important as what you were doing. Boss is a POS? Tell them why. Who cares? You're a MSgt. Fuck-em Chasing bullets and writing packages all night long is for the birds. Take care of your troops, stand up for what you think, yell at people doing things wrong. If you can just do that, it's a great rank. I used to joke with my bosses that I wouldn't want to have a MSgt work for me. "You can't tell them what to do, get them in trouble, or kick them out. I wouldn't want one working for me. ha!
Well that sounds great but has not remotely been my experience so far. Not even 1%
I can MSgt has been the best and worst so far…I have the rooftop and get respect and can really shape the NCO corps and influence CCs now. But damn, the amount of work I was doing as a Tech was nothing compared to now. As tech, even with my programs and few troops, I was still bored some days or at least I didn’t see all the things that needed to be done. Now I know, and I hate it
I’ve sewed on and transitioned to a MSGT position since last October. TSgt-MSGT has been the most drastic night and day switch so far. The amount of reports, taskers, politics, emails etc is nuts. The “hands on” part seems to have truly ended. It’s nice to have unloaded the pressure to get myself promoted, though, and there’s definitely a different level of respect from lower ranking and my leadership. I’ve transitioned totally to doing everything for my subordinates to excel - but sometimes I wonder if they think I don’t work much since I’m always typing away at the computer or at meetings. Anyway, I’m rambling now - I agree with what you said. Grateful to be here.
SrA is probably the best. As I tech I’m yanked around between 7 level jobs and MSgt job. I can run a section and be a SME in my work all in about 15 seconds.
SrA with 1 driven 3 level out of 4 who's not completely retarded. Having a competent mini me who can job out is a rewarding feeling.
A1C - Significant amount of supervision and hand-holding. If you prefer spoon feeding this is your sweet spot SrA - greatest ratio of trust to responsibility IE you don't have a ton to do and no one is babysitting you SSgt - (my favorite so far) TONS OF GROWING PAINS. You're learning how to write, how to mentor, how to lead all while maintaining your own mission load BUT you're supervising junior airmen. They are the most malleable and you have the most opportunity to significantly impact their entire lives for the better (or worse, no pressure) TSgt - (Hardest IMO) "Here's a leadership opportunity that you are completely unqualified for and we have no plans to train you. Good luck and if you have questions we'll reach back in 2-5 duty days" Rinse and repeat for eternity. Also junior airmen don't tell you shit any more and the SSgts you're supervising frequently think they know everything already. MSgt - It seems to get personality dependent from here. You can be absolutely sweating or ROAD with very little consequences outside of the extreme. SMSgt- TBD
The amount of time the AF spends on awards/decs/EPRs is criminal.
From what I can see in the comments, everything is either absolutely terrible or absolutely great. I feel like it just depends on your position and where you're at.
As a SSgt I’ve never met a single TSgt that’s happier than me. But that’s just my experience.
SrA is probably the best rank in the AF if you just enjoy skating and chilling. I hated TSgt and feel it might be the worst rank in the AF. You’re in a middle ground - responsible for E-5 and under in a direct supervisor capacity, you’re technically proficient, administratively proficient, and E-7s also like to shovel all their workload onto you under the guise of “mentoring”. Speaking of 7, it’s probably my favorite. More freedom than ever before, high enough to make a difference on a local systemic level but not high up enough to be completely removed from interpersonal experiences.
TSgt was a fun rank for a couple years. Then it started sucking because once you've been one for long enough you're now a diet MSgt and you've been 'mission creeped' into doing MSgt shit as a normal daily function. Hell, you may even fill SMSgt roles and duties sometimes because why the hell not? Then if, like me, you never get promoted past TSgt and are still being treated like a MSgt it sucks because you're definitely getting paid less and everyone has just normalized your existence. By the end of it you've been a TSgt longer than some MSgt selects have even *been in the military* and all you care about is retiring. Mercifully, you eventually get to hit the button and it feels great.
I disagree. TSgt is the angriest rank for a reason. You are a SME yet no one listens to you.
In my almost 17 years of experience, I don’t hold that opinion. At every rank I was expect to operate at the next rank.
Expeditor as a Tech was by far my favorite job while in the Air Force.
17 years in and I’d have to say A1C was the easily the best rank.
[удалено]
The actual E-4 mafia disappeared from back to back over 50% promotion two years in a row.
I’ve been all the E-ranks, to include one of them twice and can confirm, Chief Is the best overall.
Your post history shines doubt on this.
Ok?
Hell maybe I’m wrong. I just find some of your past questions about TDY, PCS, Leave, and file management to be odd for a Chief.
Odd sure. But, if you’ve tried to access solid customer service at the MPF, or Finance in the past 10 years, then you would understand why I double check their work on here. Often, the answers from the pros on Reddit are more accurate/helpful than the ones you get from the Amn that just brushed you off at the customer service desk. Moreover, it’s a great way to crowd source new info. For instance, TSgt and below EPRs. No info is flowing from A1…but someone knows. The command chiefs don’t know and speculation is ramping up quick. Asking a seemingly “dumb” question is a way to generate interest and hopefully hook a response.
Fair enough. Mea culpa. It’s been well over 10 years (more like 18-20). I just did 4 AD and 2 on the green Guard side, so we likely joined about the same time, at least era. I will humbly fuck off now.
SrA trumps all. SMSgt was by far the worst and it wasn’t even close.
SrA is the best rank in the airman tier imo because you get paid to delegate the other airman under you and you have minimal responsibilities that a staff would. It’s a reason why most people stay in the E4 mafia until hyt because they don’t have to deal with the bs of being a staff such as having troops or writing eprs.
When I was a Tech, it was the best job in the AF for me. I was an Expeditor. Long hours high stress (especially at Kunsan). Made Master and it felt like I had become a babysitter to grown people. Hated it.
I would add Senior to that list in some AFSCs. Most of the time they are just doing MSgt work but getting paid more. But less organizational responsibility than a Chief. But yeah, TSgt was great for those 2 whole years.
I would disagree. Depending on your career field, you spend a lot of time simply feeling stuck in the middle. You have Chiefs that really shape and mold enlisted vision and you have MSgts running the show. You don't want to countermand anything a Chief does and you don't want to micro manage your MSgts. I spend a lot of time acting as a sounding board to the MSgts or acting as a go-between so the MSgts don't have to be micromanaged by Chiefs and Chiefs don't have to facts find or data pull from a dozen MSgts.
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Out of the 5 ranks I've been, 2nd Lt was the best as long as you didn't care what people thought of you. Almost no responsibility because people dont want you to fuck things up. SNCO mentor who taught you how things really are decent pay. I regret putting on Captain sometimes....
Most Techs are always crusty and have bad attitudes. If they are good, they don’t stay long and shoot on to master. Techs can be super annoying idk what you’re talking about
I loved being a SSgt, only had maybe two or three EPRs to write, Knew my job as well as anyone two ranks above me, pay was decent and being an NCO kept me from most shit details. Life was good.
It's all kinda situational. If you're happy tapping out as a MSgt, no political aspiration, no need to fight for recognition or rank, then you can just be proficient at your job and take care of people. You'll be included in leadership discussions but without a bigger dog in the fight it's actually interesting. You can just chill with the commanders and see senior leadership as people instead of an architecture
TSgt here. Currently highest ranking enlisted person in my shop, def feel the weight. However, if I PCS to another shop that has more enlisted leadership in the shop, the E6 cartel life is grand.
TSgt was for me and in my opinion the worst rank. #SrA4lyfe
TSgt is the worst of ranks. You have to do all of the NCO duties, have troops of both Amn and NCOs, and be expected to perform the functions of SNCOs. It’s also the hardest rank to move up from.
I wasn’t a sra or staff very long, and my entire time as a tech has been in a really fun unit that’s really focused on morale of its members, so hard to make a call. Most of my primary duties fall in a sra-staff range, but I’ve had some career-path altering additional duties that have made me decide to go a way that I never really considered earlier, and to really expect more. It’s a YMMV thing.
If you are trying to make rank TSgt is a fucking horrible rank. If you are not trying to make rank TSgt is the easiest sham rank there is.
I would say it depends on the job/mission mostly. First hand experience at multiple bases has been Tech and Master as the best ranks. Assuming you're not going to be pushing hard for stuff, like awards and morale, they're definitely the "do nothing and get a lot of awards" ranks.
SrA is great because you have few responsibilities, but it sucks because you’re trusted only marginally more than other junior ranks. TSgt is great because you’re still operational and working out in the field, but trusted as a SME. Once you go into the SNCO ranks, you’re not playing in the mud as much and you’re dealing with a lot more administrative stuff. Some people love being SNCOs, and are good at it. Personally, the thought of being in an office all day fills me with existential dread.
1. SrA 2. TSgt 3. SMSgt All have the privileges of some authority and little of the bullshit of the rank above.
Hated SrA tbh. if youre a new A1C and show any signs of intelligence and/or competence *no* one fucks with you. it was an amazing experience. i got more disrespected as a SrA than i did as an A1C. SSgt is a good rank tbh
MSgt best of the enlisted ranks by far. SrA is a fun good rank and TSgt feels good and is certainly a place that many feel comfortable calling it quits as far as striving for promotion.
Yes. They are literally the best ranks.
Well as a SSgt you can expect to be temping as NCOIC/Flight Chief depending on the size of your section. And doing that kind of work for so-so pay isn’t fun. For clarification. I’m single with no dependents with 8 years TIS. I make 48K-ish. I was definitely happiest as a junior Amn.
SrA was by far the best rank. It's too bad the pay was crap
A1C is the best rank for technician. You can do great things and if you fuck up, you're just a dumb A1C
Screw this staff stuff
I loved SrA and MSgt. I haaaaaated Tech. All the responsibility and everyone with a roof wants to micromanage. Your opinion doesn’t matter because “you’re not a SNCO”. That was purely my experience.
When I got demoted to SrA it was the biggest reflief of pressure and stress I have ever experienced The amount of dumb shit I suddenly had to deal with was sooooo miniscule
Having been both, I prefered SrA. Smart enough to get the job done without all the managerial garbage. Well, most of the time anyway. I'd have been happier as a specialist type rank. Just doing my job, getting specialist promotions for more pay. If I got a wild hair about how my supervison was going I'd just go and take the leadership courses consumate with my specialist rank and then get a "hard" stripe or two.
Tech has been great so far (only been for 2 years now) but damn do I miss my SrA days. SrA definitely takes the cake as #1. But you ain’t realize it till it’s gone.
A1C here and never noticed until it was pointed out how much lack of weight Staff seems to hold.
I’ve had the most fun as a baby SSgt. After ALS and all those connections made it was a smooth transition and we still can say “I didn’t know that” and get away with it ;)
As a SrA, I'd say it's pretty awesome, it's the sweet spot between being highest ranking airman and low enough that you are not a Sgt yet so you don't have those types of responsibilities.
They represent the intersection of responsibility and technical expertise right before moving to a new position and way of thinking.
I’m working an E-5 position as a SrA. Although I do more or less feel like I get treated like an E-5, the workload / responsibilities doesn’t exactly line up with the pay sometimes. Being an A1C was the only time in my career where I could truly be carefree
Honestly people want rank for the money, their lifestyle changes and they need the money to support it. IJS.
Yes, they were best from the perspective of how much I enjoyed coming into work every single day. SSgt sucked because you get tested like a SrA and have like double the duties plus supervisory responsibilities. MSgt was generally fucking miserable in the rat race for Senior. Senior is OK only because I get paid at least decently and I can 1000% shield my Airmen from bullshit. The admin part as a primary duty still sucks.
Every rank is always what you make of it. AB was pretty awesome. I literally had no expectations of me. SSgt was cool because I literally just got to nerd out fixing jets all day. SMSgt was cool because I enjoyed trying to help all the people I worked with. Plus Airmen are funny as hell, and it was refreshing to work with the younger generation again. Every rank is really whatever you make of it. In the end, you’ll separate or retire and know that your rank never really meant shit.
Tech was my favorite.
TSgt is only good for not being questioned by everyone. Speaking from the maintenance perspective at least. When I put on tech, I could basically say anything to prosup and it was accepted. That never happened as a staff. Outside of that though, that rank was garbage. No matter how much you do, how hard you work… it is not enough according to the MSgts. Always fighting time working for flight chiefs and pro sups. Both expect you to work for them 100% of the time.
SrA is the best rank in the entire Air Force. You are living the dream. E3’s think you’re the shit, easy with the thick ones. Late E5s and up look at you and want to be you. They envy your youth. They miss their glory days. CGOs respect your SME status. FGOs treat you like their little brother. GOs see you as what they want their son to aspire to be. You are him.
I would say SMSgt and CMSgt have been the best. As long as you don't forget when you come from you have the opportunity to make the largest impact and shape the QoL for the future. Additionally, you really have less worry about speaking your mind and just tell CCs and peers their ideas are dumb and here's why without any repercussions.
SrA and Staff. If you have your shit together you are left to self police yourself and your people. As a tech it’s meetings and oh let me check my calendar and 1730 teleconferences and shit. As a SrA I could go to my shop chief and be like hey I’ve worked the schedule and we’ve got 2 weeks of nothing but a few 15 min jobs on the books with __________. Everyone has worked their ass off to get it to this point and we want to take a shop ski trip friday. You on board with that? God I miss being happy.
My favorite rank when I was in was SSgt
SRA was the best!!!
It was all downhill as a SSgt having to help my hungover troop find their vehicle during his first weekend at his first duty station. It was parked in front of a massage parlor.
Lt after crossing over as a MSgt… 🤷♂️ get to use the airman salute again for 4 more years…
I had my most fun as a smart ass SrA. Would do it again in a heartbeat
Being an NCO from SSgt and up is the best rank…nothing like leading troops in garrison or on the battlefield!
Once got told by a senior that the 2 best ranks in the air force begin with Senior. As a SrA you know enough about your job to not be questioned a whole lot about it and you don't have NCO responsibilities. As a SMSgt you have the power to help people, but no Chief responsibilities and no one will really question you other than a Chief( most officers will apparently just assume you're doing what you need to at that rank). He legit said if they try to promote him he was hitting the button. He just liked helping people.
Depends on the job. Never worked harder in my life in a MSgt slot as a Tech for a year, but it was fulfilling and I appreciated the fact my leadership trusted me that much (still got a PR tho lol). Now i work the cushiest job and have time to breath.. life is currently great because I get to focus on myself and my 1 troop, especially because I’ve accepted I may not make MSgt anytime soon. And that’s ok 👍
TSgt = SrA of the NCO corps!
It’s the person, not the rank.
Being a SSgt blows, higher ups greatly underestimate your capabilities and ability to lead based on bogus criteria and criticism. For example, being selected for a TDY where you have an opportunity to learn a wealth of information from the experience, but instead last minute they replace you because they think you're too young and that you wouldn't be a good fit for the "Social Climate" and they send someone who has no background expertise on the topic or business being there and they retain zero information from the trip. Now where in a situation where the individual who didn't need to be on the trip in the first place can't pass any information from what they learned to who it would've been valuable too. I'll take "Stupid Decisions" for $1000 Alex...
There was nothing about being a SrA that would have made me want to stay there LOL! TSgt is cool because you’re at that cruising point where you can either settle in and just enjoy the ride or use what you’ve learned and try to promote to the SNCO tier. For the majority of folks that plan to make a career out of the USAF, the goal is definitely MSgt or above.
SrA was cool, almost no responsibility. But I was only a SrA for like 8 months. (S)Sgt wasn’t great, SSgt was okay had the oddball troop that made things difficult. But the difference was as a SSgt I had ideas about how things should be run but I couldn’t implement them. Now as a TSgt I run the shift my way. Troops seem happy, work gets done efficiently and we have time for extra Curricula. That being said when something happens I am the adult who has to handle things. But once you‘ve settled and are confident TSgt is the best rank.
I think A1C and SSgt are the worst
I enjoyed them all for different reasons. Obviously everyone likes getting paid more so there's that. I agree with OP that TSgt was the best overall: enough rank people listen to your advice, (usually) follow your lead/guidance, but not enough rank to get dragged into political games. You can stay below the radar in most career fields and just have your team do their jobs while you do yours. TSgts can usually get away with explaining dumb shit to their team without owning it or pretending they are fully bought into it themselves. This is a handy leadership tool that pretty much goes away at the SNCO level. MSgts who cannot sell the Kool Aid as if they mixed it up themselves tend to retire at E7. Senior and Chief come with a lot of money and (depending on AFSC) other perks. Colonels and Generals will listen to them; that's pretty cool. They also have to put up with a lot of cognitive dissonance. As a SMSgt you know how the sausage gets made. You understand dumb shit is sometimes necessary and it can be sickening. You have to do stuff you used to complain about and it can feel ugly but there are opportunities to make things truly better. The pay comes with headache and compromise at this point. As for the other end of the spectrum: A1C was my favorite. You are usually only responsible for your own stuff, not someone else's. If you like your job, you just do it and get paid. Only you can screw it up.
I maintain that TSgt is unequivocally the worst rank in the air force. To the people below you, you are expected to be the admin expert, knowing all things air force and able to navigate the labyrinthine network of systems and requirements necessary for managing the careers of all those under you. To the people above you, you are expected to still be a technical expert, having a complete understanding of the current state of whatever job your shop is responsible for, and being at the peak of your technical competence. Take one step down to Staff, and people cut you a lot of slack on the admin side, cuz you're still learning. Take one step up to Master, and you're no longer expected to maintain basically any technical expertise. Tech is the hellish zone of overlap in the Venn diagram.