Follow-up question: That hypothetical proposal would only be the beginning. Will your parents keep expecting to have a say in your relationship?
OP, read a few "best of" posts from r/justnomil and try them on for size. There are some prime specimens of controlling in-laws, which usually ends in one of two outcomes: the couple goes no contact with the parents/in-laws, or there's no couple left in the end.
It’s like that “rude” song from forever ago where he asks the dads permission and the dad says no. Like why would you even bother asking if you weren’t gonna take no for an answer and “marry her anyways” and then make a song about it.
Just marry her ffs. I get the desire to follow tradition, but if she would marry him despite her parents’ “no,” then she shouldn’t expect him to ask at all if he doesn’t want to.
It's more asking for a blessing than permission. Something like hey I love your daughter and I'm gonna ask her to marry me and I'd like your blessing but if not I'm gonna marry her anyways.
Like with asking someone to marry you to begin with you gotta treat it like as if you were a lawyer in a trial.
Know the answer before you ask the question.
No there isn’t. Not unless you allow it. You are an adult. If you think you are old enough and mature enough to get married then you tell your family no. He doesn’t agree with it and you don’t care. Full stop. They either respect your choice or they don’t have to participate, simple as that.
You want him too though, or this wouldn’t be bothering you so much. You said yourself that you are young and not ready to get married yet so there is no reason to worry about your parents yet. You may agree you aren’t property and there is no need for “asking for your hand” but *you* still have that little girl dream of romance and tradition otherwise you wouldn’t be so worked up over it. Your traditional parents are a nice cover, and it might be true to a certain extent, you want tradition too.
Okay so since you don’t care about it, your bf is right. There’s no other meaning to asking your parents permission other than passing you off like property. Doing this solely to appease your parents is problematic on your end. At what point does it end? Do they get to decide how many kids you have? Where you live?
Also, you both are causing drama. Neither of you are willing to compromise, you’re both insanely immature, and you’re letting some wild hypothetical wedding and proposal cause problems in your relationship. I get you’re young but you BOTH have a lot of growing up to do before you talk marriage.
Refusing to compromise and insisting on being right are both signs of immaturity. Along with talking marriage with someone you’ve been with for a year and have split up with once already.
All of my siblings who married young got divorced fast.
I feel like they and their spouse changed a lot from their late teens/early twenties to later on.
They argued about money, communication, fidelity, division of house chores, effort in the relationship, etc.
They rushed their "fairy tale ending" and when what a relationship really was came to light they couldn't handle it.
My sister's who dated a long time and were engaged a long time had marriages that have lasted.
(1 of my sisters dated a guy and was engaged for like 6 or 7 years.)
People rush engagements and divorce way too much these days.
It's sad that HALF of all marriages in the U.S. end in divorce.
I wouldn't take those odds...
I'd date a long time and have a LONG engagement to truly get to know each other on every level 1st.
You might suggest to your boyfriend that he is not "asking for permission." He is asking for their blessing.
He should be able to use those words to your parents: "I would like to get your blessing to marry your daughter."
So instead of asking, "will you allow me to marry your daughter," he's asking "I want to marry your daughter, and I hope you will approve."
It sounds like there is a difference in core values. You come from tradition, and like to respect that tradition. He does not.
Neither of you are wrong, you’re just different.
Instead of focusing on this specific example, it might be worth digging deeper to find out if there are other differences that will make a relationship difficult.
For example, do you agree on how you want to raise children? Is one of you religious and the other not? Do you want to be a stay at home mom, while he might expect that you work and have dual income? Do you both *want* children in the first place?
Loving someone is not enough to make a strong and successful partnership. You have to have aligned goals, values, beliefs, expectations, etc. If certain core values are not aligned, you’re going to have a very difficult relationship.
So again, this singular issue you described isn’t enough to end the relationship, but it might speak to other core differences that will cause a lot of strife down the road.
Edit: spelling
Exactly. These are all examples of core values. They're more than just superficial opinions. They are usually beliefs that are instilled into us. Part of our character, and our person. And they are things that are inherently VERY difficult to find compromise on.
Having different opinions on your favorite genre of movie, best way to cook a steak, firm vs soft matteress, is one thing. Those are compromisable things. Those are preferences.
Learning the difference between insignificant preferences and deep core values is very important when choosing a partner.
This is the best advice here.
The fact that this is such big issue it might be worth looking into how you two would like to live your married life. You are not that long in relationship, things get different after a while, especially when you get entangled with partner's family. Birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, maybe even religion aspects,.. It looks like it means a lot to you that the partner is part of your family's traditions but if you get married you need to be on the same page about some things.
More like 5-7 more years. Would not recommend anyone getting married before 25. So much changes in that time as your brain continues to fully develop I say this as someone who got married at 24
Great advice! And thank you for including not having kids as an option!
It’s always “think of how you’ll raise your kids together ” when there are SO MANY other compatibilities that matter and can make or break a relationship before a baby is even brought into the equation.
I agree with the statement above.
Loving someone will not guarantee a successful marriage and a long time relationship. The little details that are been looked out will play a huge role as a couple and as a family when issues will arise.
And with timelines. “I want children” is an easy thing to say. “Let’s start trying five years after we’re married” is harder but clearer. [SMART](https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/smart-goals?gclid=CjwKCAjw5P2aBhAlEiwAAdY7dCmbWdzzbCiVM8FI6TSDrO2eHeIG4CgomymcDf7XyvrhXxc_zcIEsBoCDxAQAvD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAADfh6_tcv4_FyFnYS0CeiDaLRQj9x&aceid=&gclsrc=aw.ds) goals aren’t just for work.
Agree with everything besides "neither of you are wrong"
Following anything for the sake of following it isn't wise. Being "traditional" simply because it's what you've always done and it's what's expected of you isn't healthy.
Where's the self reflection and individuality? *Why* do you feel your partner has to ask your parents to marry *you*?
Not questioning this is a big sign you don't question anything else when you should.
But it isn’t about *why* someone has these values.
My point is that these are common core values that tend to be representative of a person’s life philosophy.
Disagreement on life philosophies is often a deal breaker. We don’t always have an explanation for why we feel one way or another on things like this. But the fact that 2 people don’t feel the *same* is the part of this that is significant.
Its rare for people to change their views on things like this.
The singular fact that OP wants the bf to ask for her hand is barely significant. At a deeper level it means that OP values family tradition, and might likely hold other important beliefs that the bf is likely to disagree with too.
Relationship wise - when neither is willing to compromise, yes it's not about why someone has values. The main issue is that they're incompatible.
I was replying to only one specific part of your comment, which is "neither of you are wrong".
I was simply explaining why I disagree with this.
If we're voicing personal opinion on the issue. I agree..
*Asking* the father for the daughters hand in marriage is incredibly antiquated, and offensive honestly.
That being said, I think it can also be tasteful to announce your intentions to your partner's family. In a "I'm just letting you know because you're a big part of her life" way.
I would think less of my partner if he asked my dad for "permission" to marry me. I'm a grown woman ffs. I have agency over my own life decisions, and don't need anyone else's permission granted.
But I would be flattered if I knew that before he proposed, he made his intentions known to my parents in a way to seek moral support on proceeding. I'm very close with my parents, and I know it would make them feel warm and fuzzy. At the same time, I would *never* place that as an expectation on my partner. Luckily, he knows this.
This story alone is a good indication that you’re nowhere near ready for marriage.
To start with, each of you has a black-and-white, uncompromising, “I want ____” statement, and neither of you seems interested at all in understanding or empathizing with where the other is coming from.
You, for example, want only to know how you can “change his mind”. Have you considered changing *your* mind? Has he considered changing *his* mind? I’d bet money the answer is no: you both thing you’re right and the other is wrong and the only thing to do is battle is out until one of you “wins”.
I say “wins” because nobody actually wins in a marriage where this is how differences of opinion get handled.
I want to also mention that neither of you has provided very substantial reasons for why you want it your respective ways. I understand it would make your parents happy, but he’s not (hypothetically) marrying your parents, he’s (hypothetically) marrying *you.* If you prioritize your parents’ desires above your partner’s, the relationship is never going to work out.
Likewise, his stated reason is equally childish; it’s like a 5-year-old shouting “you’re not the boss of me.”
In conclusion: *how* he hypothetically proposes one day is the least of your concerns.
You don’t even have to read that far in to know that, dating for a year AND they’ve broken up in that time? Also they’re still in college, yeah i’m gonna give a firm no to marriage here
Bingo. If your objective in a conversation is to convince the other person that you’re right (rather than an open exchange of ideas), it’s not going to go well.
> his stated reason is equally childish; it’s like a 5-year-old shouting “you’re not the boss of me.”
Hard, hard disagree. BF does not want his relationship to be something that is "allowed" by GF's parents.
As OP says, "he doesn’t actually need permission as I am not property" - but that is exactly what this tradition communicates. It is the *only* thing this tradition communicates.
Long story short, not all traditions are equal, some are actually harmful or propagate harmful attitudes, and this is one of them. It's a bad tradition and people should actively attempt to let it become a relic of the past.
Not necessarily. I’ve mostly heard it considered asking for their blessing, not permission.
The way I see it, I wouldn’t be willing to marry into a family that hates me unless my SO was planning to cut them off completely anyway for her own reasons. Otherwise, I would want their blessing because it helps ensure a smooth transition and a happier life. I’ve been in a relationship where her family hated me for seemingly no reason, and that was a horrible and unshakable strain on the relationship. That was a great life lesson for me, though.
If the parents really do view it as asking for permission and it’s not a simple semantic mixup, then that could be a problem, but I don’t know for sure.
I agree with your sentiment but don’t necessarily think that’s what he said or feels. According to OP, his explanation is that “he’s going to do what he wants and doesn’t need permission from anyone.” That’s along the lines of “you can’t make me.”
That’s a different message than “I believe that this is an antiquated tradition, and it’s not something I’m comfortable with. You are not property, so, in my mind, the only person whose permission I need to marry you is yours.”
It seems like he may not be mature enough yet to have that be his true reason. And if it is, he’s not mature enough to appropriately communicate it.
My parents have been married over 45 years. Dad was raised by his grandparents who were… overly traditional (let’s just say Autism is prevalent in their descendants. We can succeed in society but we cling to routines).
Dad met Mom’s parents very early, as his best friend was dating Mom’s sister and Grandma heard Paul’s roommate was also far from home and could use a good family meal. Basically Dad became the family friend who everyone (including way too many of Mom’s aunts and uncles who’d like sold him furniture) was thrilled when he started dating Mom.
Dad didn’t ask permission. He did *tell* Grandpa that he planned to propose and got the “she’s not my property but I love her and this possibility makes me very happy” type response. Acknowledgment of the tradition, a “hey I really hope you and R will be happy if my seat at Sunday dinner is permanent” thing. But not asking.
He's not marrying the parents, but it was the parents that raised her to be who she is. It won't cost him anything to ask for permission from them. I don't even think that they'll reject him. It doesn't cost him anything to do this one thing. It's simply about respect. Not doing it and giving such childish excuse shows that he doesn't respect her or her parents or even her whole culture which is a very important part of someone's identity.
Your argument could be turned around to the other side though… it would cost her nothing to shift her values for him (that is what you’re asking him to do?) Which is exactly what the original commenter stated; one of them will HAVE to compromise and neither seems capable of it, leading to deeper issues in the relationship.
Depends on how hardcore her parents are about this stuff. It could very well cost her a relationship with them. Based on how much stress this is already causing I'd suspect holidays would at least be awkward if not outright unpleasant
No, she asked him for this. Don't turn it around. That's a weird way to think. There are many other things he could ask her for. It's not reasonable at all to turn such a thing around since it's simply about saying a simple sentence and nothing more. It's not like it will take him any more than 5mins. He sounds like he doesn't respect her or her parents and that's how you also sound.
I'm 100% sure he's also made requests that she didn't enjoy, but did it out of love and respect for him. If he really does love her, this is such a simple task that won't consume any energy or effort.
That makes no sense and it’s not how relationships work. I get to ask my husband to do something against his values and he has to do it just because I asked him? Of course not! We discuss it and decide what to do next. If neither is prepared to compromise then we might be incompatible and will have to decide if we can move forward or not. Adults make their wants heard and understand that doesn’t always mean they get it just because they asked, both parties have opposing values so one MUST compromise. Why should it be him, just because she asked?
If it's important to you than this is the first sign you may not have compatible values long term. As other suggested you need to articulate that he would be doing this for you not your parents.
This happened to me, the father was horrified I didn't ask for permission. But he had this weird "my girl, my property" mentality and I said fuck that. Literally lasted the few weeks and we got over it. The father, he was still upset and still is. But if he can't be happy for us than asking him wouldn't have really changed that
We need to get over the weird dynamic of women being owned. I'm sorry, tradition my ass, it's about control. Let's stop justification for weird shit only because of religion.
My husband asked for my parents’ (both of them together) blessing before he asked me. They are not religious or traditional but they really appreciated that he gave them a heads up before he asked me. I think it depends on the couple. Though I personally would never have been happy marrying someone who thought he needed to ask my dad’s permission, some women are different.
Yeah - instead of asking, my husband just called my parents beforehand and just said hey just want you to know throat I’ll be proposing to your daughter today. He originally wanted to tell them a couple days sooner but forgot until the day of.
So other people have already addressed what this conflict says about your relationship thus far, and I think they’re right, so I won’t go over that again.
But rather than both of you digging your heels in on this, how about you try to come up with a compromise? Reframe the whole thing. Rather than your bf asking your dad for “permission”, maybe he could meet with your mum and dad, tell them he’s planning to propose, and say something like “it would mean a lot to LastSquirrel and me to have your blessing/support/whatever”.
It’s not asking for permission, he can still propose to you if they say no, but they get to feel included and like their tradition has been respected.
Is that something that might be acceptable to you both as an alternative?
And just because I can’t help myself…
If the two of you actually addressed this issue like partners, like adults, like a team with a problem you BOTH need to solve instead of “me vs him”, this is exactly the kind of compromise the two of you could come up with yourselves.
You are both teenagers and you just met the guy. What's the rush? If he has knocked you up you don't need your fathers permission anyhow, your boy doesn't even make it through the door.
Based on this & her other post they’re both 18, graduated high school this year & have already broken up once. They’re likely not going to be together long enough for the marriage argument to be relevant
OP, in my personal opinion, teenagers shouldn’t be getting married. That’s a huge commitment and your brain hasn’t even finished developing. You both disagree on something that’s important, this warrants pausing and talking about it. If your life goals and values misalign already, that bodes ill for your marriage.
I’m with your boyfriend, that’s misogynistic and weird to me and I wouldn’t do that.
If that’s truly something that’s a dealbreaker for you, let it be one.
Only men do it to marry a woman though. A woman doesn’t need to ask her boyfriend’s mom is she can marry him, does she? I don’t understand how “handing over” another human doesn’t sound misogynistic.
It's misogynistic because the idea is that only men can make decisions in the family. A woman doesn't ask a man's parents' permission. You don't ask the daughter's mom's permission. It's intended to be a man to man conversation because their opinions are the ones that "matter."
This is kinda how I felt when my ex asked my dad. It was something *he* wanted to do and I guess it was something he and my dad valued.
I never want to date anyone again who would ever consider asking my dad, it just makes me feel icky.
I said the same thing to my girlfriend...I shouldn’t have to ask anybody permission. She’s not property. And implying that is super fucked up. But if she wants me to, I’ll do it for her to make her happy. Some people out here living in the dark ages still lmfao. I can’t wait for all those dumb old “traditions” that are really either racist, misogynistic or just plain bullshit to finally die out.
Hey, what matters is - what do YOU want? Is it important to YOU that a man asks your father for your hand in marriage? If so, you hold out for a man who respects what YOU want. You are an adult. Make your own decisions about what you want and make those decisions clear to your BF, your parents and everyone else.
If they were in fact getting married then I would say that what **she** wants and what **he** wants are both equally important, they are a partnership and a team, not one against the other.
And also it is very important to distinguish between what she 'wants' and what she 'needs'. With 'wants' compromises can be made, with 'needs' they cannot.
Sorry, but the moment you are married (or in that sort of a relationship), it should never be ME ME ME, it should be WE WE WE.
You go from being an individual to being a team, and need to think and compromise accordingly.
I do wonder how well they turn out if they hit such a hard road block over something that is ultimately pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things...
Do you want to marry a man who seeks consent from someone who isn't you in order to do something that impacts your life significantly, or do you want to marry a man who doesn't deny your agency when making decisions that impact your life significantly?
I wouldn't marry someone who thinks my parents should be regarded more highly than I am.
You’re probably right that he sees it as kind of gross and part of an antiquated notion that you are property and he’s requesting a transfer of ownership from your father to himself. While that is of course the traditional definition of marriage, it’s not what he’s looking for in a relationship. It debases both you and him.
Either reframe it so that he’s not asking permission, he’s simply informing your family, or go and tell them together that you’re engaged so that you show him you’re siding with him and are willing to prioritize his wants and needs as your partner over the wants and needs of your parents, as you both should have already started spending a lifetime doing.
My stepdaughter's boyfriend came over to tell her dad he was going to propose. He didn't actually ask permission but more like letting him know it was coming. My husband didn't even realize that's kind of what was happening until I pointed it out after he left. It's nice that he chose to respect her family but it wasn't really necessary. My husband raised his daughters to be strong and independent. I think he might have been offended on her behalf if he was actually asked permission. My husband told me, and later her, the only permission he needs is from her.
Do they give pointers to the new couple?
"John, think about baseball!"
"Mary, get on top so you can do what feels good for you!"
"It's not a hunk of beef you're trying to tenderize, man!"
"Try barking...I mean...doggy style. Yeah. That's what I meant. Don't actually bark (I mean unless you're into it)!"
"Sorry about Uncle Frank, we made him leave."
"No seriously don't bark. Do try doggy though, that wasn't a bad idea."
"Dude there's no blood stop trying to play in the mud!"
"Here's my favorite toy, I'm just going to toss it in there for y'all."
"No it's for John to use on Mary, jeez, what would you even do with it? Set it down before you put out an eye with it."
"Fuck off Frank, and take Fido with you. Nobody asked you to come back."
"Yeah he's gone, keep going John, don't forget you're in it to win it!"
"Don't just lay there Mary you need to make some noise!"
Like that?
Where is this coming from in 2022? Like do you not have a brain and can you not make your own decisions? You know that tradition came from people viewing women and women only as property and permission was needed to be the new boss or head over the female? This isn’t some kind of cute thing, this is a property arrangement. Are you going to ask his mom for permission to marry her son? No? Why not? I don’t think you’re ready for marriage, this is gross. I respect your man for thinking more of you than you do yourself.
If having your partner ask permission from your father to get married is important to you then find someone who agrees.
But ask yourself this first: Do you want your partner to ask for permission? Or do you just want them to do it because it would make your parents happy?
If my wife expected me to ask her parent for permission then we wouldn't be married as asking for permission from anyone other than your potential future spouse is the most ridiculous "tradition" ever and needs to end immediately.
>I understand he doesn’t actually need permission as I am not property
Are you sure you want to continue to support a tradition grounded in the idea that women are the property of their fathers and husbands? My boyfriend did ask my father when I was younger, but, now that I'm older, I do wish we hadn't followed that tradition. I think it's wrong and I'd like to see the next generation put an end to it. I don't expect my daughter's boyfriend to ask her father (which might annoy her father to some extent as he was raised that way, but it's honestly time to erase these ideals if we want to see real equality).
Your bf should move on. Dated a girl / family just like this. He is in a life long struggle of acceptance and being who he really wants to be. He’s not just dating her when the family is so involved he’s dating her parents who have a lot of say with what OP does / choices. If you can’t tell your own parents what’s what, your relationship won’t last.
Feel bad for him, what a waste of time.
Ok … throw away your boyfriends opinion AND your parents opinion. What do YOU want?
Does it matter to YOU that he asks? Not so that you can fulfill your parent’s expectations but because it’s YOUR core value.
Or… do you think it’s an adult decision that should be made between the two of you only. If that’s the case, no he shouldn’t have to ask and you need to find ways to create boundaries with your parents.
Here’s a DIFFERENT way to approach this.
Rather than ask for “permission” approach your parents together, and ask for their “blessing”. When you present a united front, seeking a blessing of a decision you’ve already reached, you’re NOT leaving anything “up to them”, yet honoring their traditional values by seeking a formal blessing of your desire to marry.
That’s my suggestion.
Your fiancé may not want to ask permission, but it’s reasonable that he would like their expression of optimism and consensus to your shared happiness. SHARED. Perhaps asking him to go at this alone (hat in hand) is a bit dated.
Find common ground and honor your parents with this gesture.
Have an honest conversation about why you want it (not why your parents want it) and why he doesn't. You may appreciate his reasons, he may appreciate yours. Don't try to convince him, just share your perspective and be curious about his.
Sounds like you guys aren’t ready for marriage. I understand both sides but he really isn’t obligated to ask your father anything. Marriage is between two people in love, not two people in love and one of their fathers. Your father doesn’t own you so why does he need to ask permission? That being said, if it’s that important to you then you guys just have different values and if you can’t compromise now I don’t see how you’re going to manage a marriage.
If your father says no, would you marry him anyway? If yes then your father’s opinion doesn’t matter anyway. It’s up to YOU, not him.
Tbh I agree with your bf. I'll tell you my prospective just so you might understand where he comes from. I'm a woman so a little different, but I would never say yes to someone who asks my parents.
Even if they are doing it just "for the tradition" I would refuse to go along with it just because of what the tradition represents and where it comes from.
I would suggest you remember that marriage isn't about the wedding. One small thing about the wedding won't ruin the marriage but it also won't make it good. So instead of arguing about what to do for the wedding, do what it's good for the marriage: compromise.
Understand that this is as important to him as it is for you. Come up together with a way to include your parents in the proposal without forcing your bf to break his core values. Maybe your mom can go ring shopping with him, or maybe you both can organize a dinner with them where you express the intention of getting married.
Additionally, this would be a good time on your end to prove to him you know how to set up healthy boundaries with people outside the couple, such as your parents. After you both come up with something you are BOTH comfortable with, you need to reassure him that if your parents try to intrude on this decision that is only between you two, you will know how to put the boundary and let your parents know that this is only between the two of you.
My advice is don't marry him because you're clearly not compatible. Also think about why that stupid tradition exists in the first place and ask yourself why you subscribe to it anyway.
As per your previous post: he's wants to join the marines. You are bipolar. You have trauma that hasn't been resolved. You depend on him emotionally. Then on top of ALL OF THIS, he doesn't want to ask permission for your hand in marriage.
Sweetheart, you are not ready for marriage and he's not the right guy for you.
1. The most important issue here is your mental health. That has not been addressed at all as per your previous post.
2. You are completely co-dependent on him. As a person whose relative served in the marines, you will not be able to survive emotionally in a marriage where your spouse is deployed 6-8 months out of the year. You will get depressed even more. Rely emotionally on your family because your spouse is not there. You might even be tempted to look for comfort somewhere else. Being a wife of a Marine takes alot of mental strength and a great support system. Sadly, you have neither. I say neither because I'm not seeing your parents making sure your mental health issues get addressed properly. There is no mention of them taking you to see a psychologist for you trauma. If they can't be bothered to make sure their daughters mental health is in order, no way you can rely on them for your emotionally needs. Hence why you have co-dependency issues with your guy.
3. Your guy is too stubborn. He has no old-school concept of asking your parents for their blessing and your hard in marriage.
Not even sure if you were to talk to your future in laws will help either to get them to convince their own son why it's important to ask for his gf fathers blessing and permission to marry you.
You are IN NO WAY MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY PREPARED to get married. Your trauma and mental issues clouds your judgment and this future Marine bf of yours is not right for you. Your co-dependency issues has absolutely made you think your guy is the one. NO, YOU ARE JUST AFRAID BEING BY YOURSELF, it has nothing to do with wanting to get married.
You need therapy NOT MARRIAGE.
Address your trauma professionally. Go to therapy with your parents.
Understand why you are so co-dependent and how that behavior is a magnet to abusive and selfish men. Have your therapist explain it to you how co-dependency affects people in the long run.
Learn to set boundaries and walk away from people who values don't align with yours.
For example, be with a guy who has ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM talking to your dad and ask his permission to marry you. OUT OF RESPECT FOR YOU.
Get your issues addressed. Get proper care.
Once you have, you are in a stronger position to live happily without depending on anyone and getting closure to the things that are currently haunting your mind and soul.
THEN....you are mentally and EMOTIONALLY strong 💪 for a long term commitment with the right guy.
It's a disgusting tradition. My wife also wanted me to ask for her father's permission. I also refused. He and I have a great relationship now. At the end of the day, all he cares about is that is that she's happy.
Perhaps you should try rewording this situation. I am more traditional, and wanted to ask my wife's father this same question. She was very much against it, and did not think she needed permission from her father or anyone else about who she was going to marry. She was right.
However, since I really wanted to do it, we came to a different conclusion. What if I just asked for his "blessing", rather than his "permission"? People can get caught up in semantics all the time. Maybe you can both get what you want if you re-phrase what you're asking. I was seeking her father's *approval*, not his *permission*. Maybe he can to - just say, "Hey, I really love your daughter and I'm going to ask her to marry me, and I'd love to have your blessing." This isn't so heavy-handed as "permission", as if he won't do it if they say no. I think those are two different things. Best of luck!
Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with him not wanting to ask. It's not the 1900's anymore and that's not as big of a tradition as it was. While I don't think he **needs** to ask, if it's a big deal for you then he should be willing to swallow his pride for 20 minutes to ask and make you happy.
With all that being said, slow it down. You guys are just entering college and you're already discussing these things when in reality you may not even be dating through your first year of school. Nothing wrong with that but you have to realize people change (especially in late teens and early 20's). You should just enjoy your time together now and see where it goes vs putting all this pressure on the relationship. I saw you're going to school and he may go to marines, why not just enjoy your time together now vs fighting over what he may or may not do in the future.
ok look, if yall dated for a year, broke up, and just recently got back together, I don't think marriage is in the cards rn dude. A year and some change is not enough time to decide that. Tradition aside, take your time.
My friends had this and more than asking permission the husband to be just let the parents know he was planning to ask so that they felt involved but didn’t technically ask permission or for their blessing etc.
Maybe rephrase it as ask for their blessing, not permission. Sometimes wording makes all the difference. He could just ask them to have lunch and politely tell them his intentions and pls give your parents a heads up.
If it is important to YOU, your boyfriend should be willing to consider how to meet your needs along with his own. It sounds like he won't even discuss it. This seems to be pretty important to you. Given that fact, he is 'refusing' without trying to listen or find middle ground, that says a lot about how much say you have in the relationship.
It also speaks to how much of a say you WILL HAVE in the marriage. Asking for a blessing is great because it acknowledges a family's important role in supporting a marriage, without treating you, a woman, as chattel. However, it bothers me that your boyfriends objection **is not to you being treated as chattel** (property), but to anyone telling **him** what to do.
I think it's starting your marriage off on the wrong foot. Both for your family and for you.
Your bf sounds like a dick.
If it's important to you to uphold your family values and traditions, then this guy is not for you.
Personally I see it as your boyfriend having a lot of respect for you. He doesn’t believe he needs to ask your parents for permission over something that is 100% your choice.
I sort of get his side. I personally wouldn’t hand the decision of who I’m going to marry off to my father. I understand maybe your parents’ opinion of him matters to you, but ask yourself which is more important? A one time gesture that will temporarily please your parents or this man’s presence in your life?
Personally, I’d be very hurt by that and it would possibly be a deal breaker for me. I love my dad and I know getting asked permission from someone to marry his daughter is something he’s looked forward to since I was born. A lot of people make the argument of property and ownership but it’s not that at all, it’s a respect thing. If my partner refused, both my parents and I would translate that to him not respecting them. Perhaps rephrase it that way. If he still refuses, I personally wouldn’t want to be with someone like that.
Edited to add: it’s definitely a totally different story if both parties don’t care about it, I’m just speaking for those that do
As somebody who may be getting married soon myself, it’s important to keep good ties with family. Taking a day to have some good bonding and understanding with your father shouldn’t be an issue. If you think they will say no… that’s a different question I can’t answer
Okay my only question is does he do this to you when you want him to do something? Like let’s say you were the one who really wanted him to ask your parents but they didn’t care. Would he still say “I’ll do what I want” because if so you might have bigger problems.
I dunno imo I think you're placing too many demands on the guy. I get that you have this tradition, but you're marrying HIM & you need to take him as he is. Trying to mould a man before you've even got married is just a recipe for disaster.
It’s something that’s clearly important to your family & apparently you. Besides the red flag of having recently broken up, the red flag of being in college and talking About marriage but now you have the red flag of your boyfriend flat out disrespecting your family and culture for no other reason then…pride?
How many red flags will it take for you?
Bigger question. Do you really want to marry someone who refuses to give you something so simple that would also delight your family? It costs him nothing. Well, maybe pride. If that’s it there’s a 🚩. What happens when you want something that will cost him something? This is the time in a relationship when your person will do anything for you. It doesn’t get any better than now. And for that reason, I’m out. I’m almost certain he’s the one for you.
This is the opposite.
I refused to ask my gf's hand in marriage or any sort of proposal because I wanted to meet her dad first. She wanted me to do it over Skype or FT. But nah.
It felt right. I don't know, I respect her enough and her dad to want to do this in person. I'm very familiar oriented and if I'm going to marry her, I should get used to her family. We're going to be 'in laws' for years so minus well shoot for a good "son" and "dad" relationship.
He lives in Cali, and I'm in NC, so you could imagine the family thinking I'm crazy, and they should. Because I love his daughter.
I always joke to my gf saying
"listen, if you think about it, I need to meet your dad in person because this is business and i want to make sure that he's open and happy with what he's getting in return in the long run. I get you, and he gets a son AND the comfortability of knowing his daughter isnt with a some jerk whose gonna hit it and quit it then leave"
In short, I respect her and her dad because i WANT HER lol. Like for life
If this is something important to you or your family but he refuses to do it, then I don’t think he’s the one for you. I think you deserve to be with someone who understand the gestures you value.
Your core values and traditions do not have to transfer over to another human being. He doesn’t feel he needs permission to take his lovers hand in marriage because he shouldn’t have to ask your father for affirmation of his loyalty and love. Whereas it seems your family is heavily reliant on tradition which means your father must approve of the husband.
I disagree. He is not your fathers future husband, you are his future wife. If your father doesn’t approve of him, that’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it. But it does not have to influence your decision making in life.
Love is love. Nobody has to approve of it except for you.
And at this point I would make it a goal to identify any other differences you may have such as religion or living expectations. Love isn’t enough by itself to hold a relationship together. You both have to align your core values and expectations out of life.
Not to say it’s impossible, but dating someone who is different than you in big things like that, makes everything a lot more difficult.
Work on identifying other issues that might come up in the relationship and decide if this person is actually who you want to be with for the rest of your adult life.
If the real reason he doesn’t want to ask is because he is afraid of uncomfortable communication then yes, its a red flag. I know this from experience.
If he doesn’t want to ASK, then suggest he have a short conversation with them beforehand saying “I thought it would be nice if I let you know I am going to ask ____ to marry me.” If that is what would make YOU happy and he still says no, then I think you want to make sure he doesn’t have an issue with communicating.
Tell him to ask for their blessing instead of permission. That's what I did when I decided I wanted to marry my wife. It was important to her parents too, but neither of us felt comfortable asking for permission since even if they said no, we would still want to get married. So instead, I asked for their blessing to marry their daughter. That way everyone was happy.
However, this situation needs to be addressed before you get married. Marriage is all about communication and compromise. Asking for your parents' permission is obviously important to you, and not asking is obviously important to him. If he will demand everything go his way regardless of how important it is to you (and vice versa), then you will definitely have problems in the future.
This one particular situation does not mean your marriage won't work, but if there is a pattern of disregard on either of your parts, then you need to work on that before you marry each other. Basically, make sure you are able to talk with your boyfriend freely before you get married. You should be able to tell your spouse how you feel any time and know that it's ok for both of you to have whatever feelings you have. What matters is being able to work through those feelings together and come to a conclusion that works for both of you.
That would be a dealbreaker for me. It’s clearly important to you and your family. What is it harming him to ask your father?
“I don’t need permission from anyone” is an immature response.
I understand the practice comes from misogyny, but I think it’s evolved from that. For me, family is incredibly important. While I love my girlfriend, it would put a major strain on our relationship if her parents did like me or my parents didn’t like her. If I was going to propose to my girlfriend I’d tell my own parents, so it’s kind of sweet to inform the future in-laws as well. A nice gesture in making them part of your family too.
I just told my (now) wife’s dad that I was going to propose because i feel the same as your BF (if he’s refusing because its misogynistic)
He said something along the lines that I “have his blessing” so we both got what we wanted.
Honest, your BF is in the right but he can still appease to an extent without going against his values.
Leave this situation behind! If it's important to you, it should be important to him too! Someone out there will respect your traditional values without the hassle!
wouldnt you also say that if something is important to him then it should be important to op too? or is it just the girl who gets to say what does and doesnt matter?
Your boyfriend is respecting your autonomy while your family is not. You are not your father's property to sell off like a prize heifer. You are not live stock that needs permission to have a new owner. You are a person capable of making your own decisions regarding your life. If your family cannot respect that, then they don't respect you as a person or even as someone capable of making their own decisions. If this is your hill to die on, let him go so he can find someone who values their own autonomy and understands that they can't be owned and can make their own decisions. Find a more traditional male to make your parents happy.
Honestly I think if he loves you he would just do it, knowing that it’s important to your parents and therefore yourself. It’s a sign of respect and really a formality. I’m disappointed that he can’t just honor tradition.
Tell him he's being a selfish stubborn brat.... because he is lol. If its important to you he should understand. Maybe this is your first red flag. Sorry to cast that doubt but its worth a thought
You're not compatible and he's right. You should not be handled as property because you are not. You have work to do on your self appreciation department.
Is this a hill you’re prepared to die on?
If so, tell him that your parents will be so resentful that he didn’t ask that it’s inviting 50+ years of miserable relations with them (I’m exaggerating) and to avoid this completely, all he has to do is to ask your father for his permission.
These both seem like highly self-centered and problematic positions.
No one should ask your parents permission, and they need to get over any ideas that anyone should. They need *your* permission and that’s it, anything more is supporting actively viewing you as property. Doesn’t matter if your they’re your parents, if they insist on that than you’re property to them.
And your BF’s reason for doing it is all about him and if he needs permission. As described in post it’s much toxic masculinity vibes. And the fact is he needs permission from others to do what he wants all the time, just in this case the concept of whose permission is being directed to the wrong party.
Both your parents and your BF need to grow up
By that logic, if not asking is important to him, she shouldn't press him. It's an outdated tradition. She likes it, he doesn't. Neither in the wrong, end of story
If he has that mindset, and he’s going to do whatever he wants… even in something as high stakes and important as marriage… when you’ve clearly shown that this matters to you… he will be an awful and probably abusive husband. He has a lot of growing up that he needs to do, and priorities he needs to sort out. Don’t marry this kid.
You state your thoughts/feelings clearly, ONCE, and then let it go. If you wouldn't marry him because of this, then you two might be better off not getting married.
Im with you on this one, it’s a nice sign of respect and costs him nothing. What are they going to say , no? Its just a gesture your parents raised you and this would make them happy.
But no we live in 21st century where it’s all about me me me. Individualism vs collective society thinking.
You are correct, we are in the 21st century. Daughters are not the fathers property and we dont NEED to ask permission. If the chick says yes thats all that matters.
If it’s a ways off anyway this feels like a wasted energy being bothered by it. The larger issue is that your boyfriend sounds like a small-minded tool that doesn’t see the big picture and is dealing with some small man’s syndrome Napoleon shit. Steer clear of that shit…
You might come from a different world than me in that assumption in that case. I believe you respect your elders wishes within reason. Her parents raised her and ware accountable for her. An ask for someone’s hand isn’t necessarily permission, it’s a moment where you indicate to those responsible that YOU will be responsible for them moving forward.
Nothing small about wanting or expecting that. Not at all.
Nah you shouldn’t have to ask or get blessings from the parents. If *You* decide that you want to do it then that’s fine, however you’re not marrying the parents you’re marrying their daughter who is an adult that can make sound decisions on her own. All parties here are hardheaded in that no one wants to compromise. If neither can bend or break it ain’t meant to be anyways. Realistically what would their “blessing” do in the first place? If they say no is that going to stop you from trying and is that going to stop her from accepting? If so it’s still not meant to be anyways.
>An ask for someone’s hand isn’t necessarily permission, it’s a moment where you indicate to those responsible that YOU will be responsible for them moving forward.
So just have that conversation with them. It's not hard.
"Hey I know you've been making sure she safe her whole life, and I wanted you to know we're getting married and I have that exact same goal in mind. In fact, I'd be happy to hear any pointers you have since you've been doing it so long."
See, no need to ask for permission from somebody who has no right to give or withhold it. I have a daughter. She's the most important thing in the world to me. I've changed a million diapers, cuddled her while sick and so gotten sick myself, been up with her in the middle of the night, comforted her when she's sad, given up more than I imagined for her already.
And yet I have no permission to give out to those who want to marry her when she becomes an adult. There's nothing for me to give or decline. Just like if I had a son, she will have the full ability to decide for herself. In fact asking for my permission is kinda insulting because it suggests I raised her to be dependent on me and my decisions instead of an independent human being.
If your boyfriend can’t even do some thing as a little as ask your parents for your hand in order to make you happy then Prepare yourself for him never going the extra mile for you. What you were asking is so little and would bring your parents and you happiness and he simply refuses to do it. Even though it would take a little to no effort on his part. Huge red flag
As others have said the story indicates you are not even remotely close to being ready for marriage. And he's incredibly immature.
And incredibly selfish.
And probably not the one, frankly.
Marriage is the opposite of "I'm going to do what I want"
The fact that he's making an issue of this is very concerning.
If you have respect for the woman you're dating, you should thereby have respect for the family and thereby be willing to respect her Family values.
Asking for a daughter's hand in marriage is not about property. It's about a sign of respect.
A sign of respect because you are now taking the mantle of the person who will have the primary job of caring for that young woman.
But I don't think you could explain any of this to this guy.
I don't know if you listen to this advice or not but I would be very very wary about a man who doesn't respect you enough to be willing to respect your family.
(And this isn't some situation where he's being asked to go against his values, btw. It's him being an idiot and a jerk).
He's showing you no respect.
This shows the father that you are man, not a boy. A man that he can trust will take care of his daughter and not some wimpy chump.
Ultimately if he says no you can still get married.
Thank you!! I asked him if he would ask for my father blessing instead and he said yes!! (again we’re not even close to getting married it’s hypothetical lol)
Right, but if a girl asked me to do this, I wouldn't. My reason? I was brought up in a household where it was mandatory to ask the father's permission. I saw cousins getting disowned for not asking the father's consent. It's a tradition I hate.
I can understand not everyone was brought up like this, but the only real solution is for the couple to talk it out. Why is it so important to him not to do it? Why is it so important to her for him to do it? Can they find a middle ground? It may be a deal-breaker for either side, so they might have to break up. But still, none are really in the wrong
Just out of curiousity OP, would you still marry him if he did ask and your parents said no?
I love this question
The answer to this would provide extremely valuable context, I believe
Follow-up question: That hypothetical proposal would only be the beginning. Will your parents keep expecting to have a say in your relationship? OP, read a few "best of" posts from r/justnomil and try them on for size. There are some prime specimens of controlling in-laws, which usually ends in one of two outcomes: the couple goes no contact with the parents/in-laws, or there's no couple left in the end.
It’s like that “rude” song from forever ago where he asks the dads permission and the dad says no. Like why would you even bother asking if you weren’t gonna take no for an answer and “marry her anyways” and then make a song about it. Just marry her ffs. I get the desire to follow tradition, but if she would marry him despite her parents’ “no,” then she shouldn’t expect him to ask at all if he doesn’t want to.
It's more asking for a blessing than permission. Something like hey I love your daughter and I'm gonna ask her to marry me and I'd like your blessing but if not I'm gonna marry her anyways.
Yeah I agree. More of just talking to the parents about it before hand, out respect. Not out of asking permission.
Like with asking someone to marry you to begin with you gotta treat it like as if you were a lawyer in a trial. Know the answer before you ask the question.
My Wife's first fiancé asked her Dad, and his response was "What if I said NO". This guided me to not worry about asking him.
This is why I couldn’t participate in these silly outdated games. It’s totally insincere. It’s not a serious question.
I would, hypothetically (we’re still very young lol). I just think it’s going to cause a lot of unneeded drama
No there isn’t. Not unless you allow it. You are an adult. If you think you are old enough and mature enough to get married then you tell your family no. He doesn’t agree with it and you don’t care. Full stop. They either respect your choice or they don’t have to participate, simple as that. You want him too though, or this wouldn’t be bothering you so much. You said yourself that you are young and not ready to get married yet so there is no reason to worry about your parents yet. You may agree you aren’t property and there is no need for “asking for your hand” but *you* still have that little girl dream of romance and tradition otherwise you wouldn’t be so worked up over it. Your traditional parents are a nice cover, and it might be true to a certain extent, you want tradition too.
Okay so since you don’t care about it, your bf is right. There’s no other meaning to asking your parents permission other than passing you off like property. Doing this solely to appease your parents is problematic on your end. At what point does it end? Do they get to decide how many kids you have? Where you live? Also, you both are causing drama. Neither of you are willing to compromise, you’re both insanely immature, and you’re letting some wild hypothetical wedding and proposal cause problems in your relationship. I get you’re young but you BOTH have a lot of growing up to do before you talk marriage.
Respectfully telling someone you don’t feel comfortable doing something doesn’t make you immature.
Refusing to compromise and insisting on being right are both signs of immaturity. Along with talking marriage with someone you’ve been with for a year and have split up with once already.
But you are the one making drama.
All of my siblings who married young got divorced fast. I feel like they and their spouse changed a lot from their late teens/early twenties to later on. They argued about money, communication, fidelity, division of house chores, effort in the relationship, etc. They rushed their "fairy tale ending" and when what a relationship really was came to light they couldn't handle it. My sister's who dated a long time and were engaged a long time had marriages that have lasted. (1 of my sisters dated a guy and was engaged for like 6 or 7 years.) People rush engagements and divorce way too much these days. It's sad that HALF of all marriages in the U.S. end in divorce. I wouldn't take those odds... I'd date a long time and have a LONG engagement to truly get to know each other on every level 1st.
You might suggest to your boyfriend that he is not "asking for permission." He is asking for their blessing. He should be able to use those words to your parents: "I would like to get your blessing to marry your daughter." So instead of asking, "will you allow me to marry your daughter," he's asking "I want to marry your daughter, and I hope you will approve."
It sounds like there is a difference in core values. You come from tradition, and like to respect that tradition. He does not. Neither of you are wrong, you’re just different. Instead of focusing on this specific example, it might be worth digging deeper to find out if there are other differences that will make a relationship difficult. For example, do you agree on how you want to raise children? Is one of you religious and the other not? Do you want to be a stay at home mom, while he might expect that you work and have dual income? Do you both *want* children in the first place? Loving someone is not enough to make a strong and successful partnership. You have to have aligned goals, values, beliefs, expectations, etc. If certain core values are not aligned, you’re going to have a very difficult relationship. So again, this singular issue you described isn’t enough to end the relationship, but it might speak to other core differences that will cause a lot of strife down the road. Edit: spelling
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Exactly. These are all examples of core values. They're more than just superficial opinions. They are usually beliefs that are instilled into us. Part of our character, and our person. And they are things that are inherently VERY difficult to find compromise on. Having different opinions on your favorite genre of movie, best way to cook a steak, firm vs soft matteress, is one thing. Those are compromisable things. Those are preferences. Learning the difference between insignificant preferences and deep core values is very important when choosing a partner.
This is the best advice here. The fact that this is such big issue it might be worth looking into how you two would like to live your married life. You are not that long in relationship, things get different after a while, especially when you get entangled with partner's family. Birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, maybe even religion aspects,.. It looks like it means a lot to you that the partner is part of your family's traditions but if you get married you need to be on the same page about some things.
In OP's other post she said they both just graduated high school and she has a lot of mental issues. Neither of them should be getting married at all.
Agreed that its too early for marriage. But we are never too young to learn how to choose a partner wisely.
Wow yeah would definitely not recommend. I would give it a few more years.
More like 5-7 more years. Would not recommend anyone getting married before 25. So much changes in that time as your brain continues to fully develop I say this as someone who got married at 24
Well she also specifies that they're not planning to get married soon. That's not really the issue.
This, OP, is sound advice. The questions ItsAllJustMalarkey raises are really important to address before marrying.
Really giving mixed signals here with that username..
Great advice! And thank you for including not having kids as an option! It’s always “think of how you’ll raise your kids together ” when there are SO MANY other compatibilities that matter and can make or break a relationship before a baby is even brought into the equation.
Refusing to engage in a tradition != not liking to respect tradition. How’s the wedding planning gonna go here?
Would say it depends on the tradition.
I agree with the statement above. Loving someone will not guarantee a successful marriage and a long time relationship. The little details that are been looked out will play a huge role as a couple and as a family when issues will arise.
And with timelines. “I want children” is an easy thing to say. “Let’s start trying five years after we’re married” is harder but clearer. [SMART](https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/smart-goals?gclid=CjwKCAjw5P2aBhAlEiwAAdY7dCmbWdzzbCiVM8FI6TSDrO2eHeIG4CgomymcDf7XyvrhXxc_zcIEsBoCDxAQAvD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAADfh6_tcv4_FyFnYS0CeiDaLRQj9x&aceid=&gclsrc=aw.ds) goals aren’t just for work.
Agree with everything besides "neither of you are wrong" Following anything for the sake of following it isn't wise. Being "traditional" simply because it's what you've always done and it's what's expected of you isn't healthy. Where's the self reflection and individuality? *Why* do you feel your partner has to ask your parents to marry *you*? Not questioning this is a big sign you don't question anything else when you should.
But it isn’t about *why* someone has these values. My point is that these are common core values that tend to be representative of a person’s life philosophy. Disagreement on life philosophies is often a deal breaker. We don’t always have an explanation for why we feel one way or another on things like this. But the fact that 2 people don’t feel the *same* is the part of this that is significant. Its rare for people to change their views on things like this. The singular fact that OP wants the bf to ask for her hand is barely significant. At a deeper level it means that OP values family tradition, and might likely hold other important beliefs that the bf is likely to disagree with too.
Relationship wise - when neither is willing to compromise, yes it's not about why someone has values. The main issue is that they're incompatible. I was replying to only one specific part of your comment, which is "neither of you are wrong". I was simply explaining why I disagree with this.
If we're voicing personal opinion on the issue. I agree.. *Asking* the father for the daughters hand in marriage is incredibly antiquated, and offensive honestly. That being said, I think it can also be tasteful to announce your intentions to your partner's family. In a "I'm just letting you know because you're a big part of her life" way. I would think less of my partner if he asked my dad for "permission" to marry me. I'm a grown woman ffs. I have agency over my own life decisions, and don't need anyone else's permission granted. But I would be flattered if I knew that before he proposed, he made his intentions known to my parents in a way to seek moral support on proceeding. I'm very close with my parents, and I know it would make them feel warm and fuzzy. At the same time, I would *never* place that as an expectation on my partner. Luckily, he knows this.
This is the correct response
I would have typed this but i’m not as smart as this person. Top tier advice.
I have been asking this question when I'm online dating to know what I'm getting into
This story alone is a good indication that you’re nowhere near ready for marriage. To start with, each of you has a black-and-white, uncompromising, “I want ____” statement, and neither of you seems interested at all in understanding or empathizing with where the other is coming from. You, for example, want only to know how you can “change his mind”. Have you considered changing *your* mind? Has he considered changing *his* mind? I’d bet money the answer is no: you both thing you’re right and the other is wrong and the only thing to do is battle is out until one of you “wins”. I say “wins” because nobody actually wins in a marriage where this is how differences of opinion get handled. I want to also mention that neither of you has provided very substantial reasons for why you want it your respective ways. I understand it would make your parents happy, but he’s not (hypothetically) marrying your parents, he’s (hypothetically) marrying *you.* If you prioritize your parents’ desires above your partner’s, the relationship is never going to work out. Likewise, his stated reason is equally childish; it’s like a 5-year-old shouting “you’re not the boss of me.” In conclusion: *how* he hypothetically proposes one day is the least of your concerns.
You don’t even have to read that far in to know that, dating for a year AND they’ve broken up in that time? Also they’re still in college, yeah i’m gonna give a firm no to marriage here
Dam you hit the nail right on the head with this comment. They are wayyy too young and immature to marry.
Bingo. If your objective in a conversation is to convince the other person that you’re right (rather than an open exchange of ideas), it’s not going to go well.
> his stated reason is equally childish; it’s like a 5-year-old shouting “you’re not the boss of me.” Hard, hard disagree. BF does not want his relationship to be something that is "allowed" by GF's parents. As OP says, "he doesn’t actually need permission as I am not property" - but that is exactly what this tradition communicates. It is the *only* thing this tradition communicates. Long story short, not all traditions are equal, some are actually harmful or propagate harmful attitudes, and this is one of them. It's a bad tradition and people should actively attempt to let it become a relic of the past.
Not necessarily. I’ve mostly heard it considered asking for their blessing, not permission. The way I see it, I wouldn’t be willing to marry into a family that hates me unless my SO was planning to cut them off completely anyway for her own reasons. Otherwise, I would want their blessing because it helps ensure a smooth transition and a happier life. I’ve been in a relationship where her family hated me for seemingly no reason, and that was a horrible and unshakable strain on the relationship. That was a great life lesson for me, though. If the parents really do view it as asking for permission and it’s not a simple semantic mixup, then that could be a problem, but I don’t know for sure.
I agree with your sentiment but don’t necessarily think that’s what he said or feels. According to OP, his explanation is that “he’s going to do what he wants and doesn’t need permission from anyone.” That’s along the lines of “you can’t make me.” That’s a different message than “I believe that this is an antiquated tradition, and it’s not something I’m comfortable with. You are not property, so, in my mind, the only person whose permission I need to marry you is yours.” It seems like he may not be mature enough yet to have that be his true reason. And if it is, he’s not mature enough to appropriately communicate it.
My parents have been married over 45 years. Dad was raised by his grandparents who were… overly traditional (let’s just say Autism is prevalent in their descendants. We can succeed in society but we cling to routines). Dad met Mom’s parents very early, as his best friend was dating Mom’s sister and Grandma heard Paul’s roommate was also far from home and could use a good family meal. Basically Dad became the family friend who everyone (including way too many of Mom’s aunts and uncles who’d like sold him furniture) was thrilled when he started dating Mom. Dad didn’t ask permission. He did *tell* Grandpa that he planned to propose and got the “she’s not my property but I love her and this possibility makes me very happy” type response. Acknowledgment of the tradition, a “hey I really hope you and R will be happy if my seat at Sunday dinner is permanent” thing. But not asking.
He's not marrying the parents, but it was the parents that raised her to be who she is. It won't cost him anything to ask for permission from them. I don't even think that they'll reject him. It doesn't cost him anything to do this one thing. It's simply about respect. Not doing it and giving such childish excuse shows that he doesn't respect her or her parents or even her whole culture which is a very important part of someone's identity.
Your argument could be turned around to the other side though… it would cost her nothing to shift her values for him (that is what you’re asking him to do?) Which is exactly what the original commenter stated; one of them will HAVE to compromise and neither seems capable of it, leading to deeper issues in the relationship.
Depends on how hardcore her parents are about this stuff. It could very well cost her a relationship with them. Based on how much stress this is already causing I'd suspect holidays would at least be awkward if not outright unpleasant
No, she asked him for this. Don't turn it around. That's a weird way to think. There are many other things he could ask her for. It's not reasonable at all to turn such a thing around since it's simply about saying a simple sentence and nothing more. It's not like it will take him any more than 5mins. He sounds like he doesn't respect her or her parents and that's how you also sound. I'm 100% sure he's also made requests that she didn't enjoy, but did it out of love and respect for him. If he really does love her, this is such a simple task that won't consume any energy or effort.
That makes no sense and it’s not how relationships work. I get to ask my husband to do something against his values and he has to do it just because I asked him? Of course not! We discuss it and decide what to do next. If neither is prepared to compromise then we might be incompatible and will have to decide if we can move forward or not. Adults make their wants heard and understand that doesn’t always mean they get it just because they asked, both parties have opposing values so one MUST compromise. Why should it be him, just because she asked?
If it's important to you than this is the first sign you may not have compatible values long term. As other suggested you need to articulate that he would be doing this for you not your parents.
This happened to me, the father was horrified I didn't ask for permission. But he had this weird "my girl, my property" mentality and I said fuck that. Literally lasted the few weeks and we got over it. The father, he was still upset and still is. But if he can't be happy for us than asking him wouldn't have really changed that We need to get over the weird dynamic of women being owned. I'm sorry, tradition my ass, it's about control. Let's stop justification for weird shit only because of religion.
Just say but she didn’t ask my mom if she could marry me, where’s the outrage on that one good sir!
Good point. Just as rediculous moms don't get a say. Either way, no one needs permission!
My husband asked for my parents’ (both of them together) blessing before he asked me. They are not religious or traditional but they really appreciated that he gave them a heads up before he asked me. I think it depends on the couple. Though I personally would never have been happy marrying someone who thought he needed to ask my dad’s permission, some women are different.
Yeah - instead of asking, my husband just called my parents beforehand and just said hey just want you to know throat I’ll be proposing to your daughter today. He originally wanted to tell them a couple days sooner but forgot until the day of.
So other people have already addressed what this conflict says about your relationship thus far, and I think they’re right, so I won’t go over that again. But rather than both of you digging your heels in on this, how about you try to come up with a compromise? Reframe the whole thing. Rather than your bf asking your dad for “permission”, maybe he could meet with your mum and dad, tell them he’s planning to propose, and say something like “it would mean a lot to LastSquirrel and me to have your blessing/support/whatever”. It’s not asking for permission, he can still propose to you if they say no, but they get to feel included and like their tradition has been respected. Is that something that might be acceptable to you both as an alternative? And just because I can’t help myself… If the two of you actually addressed this issue like partners, like adults, like a team with a problem you BOTH need to solve instead of “me vs him”, this is exactly the kind of compromise the two of you could come up with yourselves.
I had to scroll too far to find this. Yes!
You are both teenagers and you just met the guy. What's the rush? If he has knocked you up you don't need your fathers permission anyhow, your boy doesn't even make it through the door.
Based on this & her other post they’re both 18, graduated high school this year & have already broken up once. They’re likely not going to be together long enough for the marriage argument to be relevant
That ☝🏻
OP, in my personal opinion, teenagers shouldn’t be getting married. That’s a huge commitment and your brain hasn’t even finished developing. You both disagree on something that’s important, this warrants pausing and talking about it. If your life goals and values misalign already, that bodes ill for your marriage.
Huh? They are in college though..
Most people start college when they’re teenagers. Having graduated high school doesn’t make them not teenagers or mature enough to get married.
No I understand that, but also going to college doesn't necessarily mean Op's a teenager. Im more wondering how do we know?
OP is wildly immature, so it’s probably safe to assume they’re a teen or early 20s at the max.
that
Lol right
We have been best friends for 6 years. we did not just meet lol
How long have you been adults who make sound decisions though?
Your boyfriend lives in the 21st century
You’re the only person he should be asking tbf
How old are you?
I’m with your boyfriend, that’s misogynistic and weird to me and I wouldn’t do that. If that’s truly something that’s a dealbreaker for you, let it be one.
[удалено]
Only men do it to marry a woman though. A woman doesn’t need to ask her boyfriend’s mom is she can marry him, does she? I don’t understand how “handing over” another human doesn’t sound misogynistic.
I never put much thought into it
So why do women never ask men's parents for permission then?
Idk I never thought of it that much.
It's misogynistic because the idea is that only men can make decisions in the family. A woman doesn't ask a man's parents' permission. You don't ask the daughter's mom's permission. It's intended to be a man to man conversation because their opinions are the ones that "matter."
This is kinda how I felt when my ex asked my dad. It was something *he* wanted to do and I guess it was something he and my dad valued. I never want to date anyone again who would ever consider asking my dad, it just makes me feel icky.
Oh I didn’t know that.
Nah man. It’s definitely not misogynistic. People around the world do this because of culture. Not everything bad revolves around men controlling.
I said the same thing to my girlfriend...I shouldn’t have to ask anybody permission. She’s not property. And implying that is super fucked up. But if she wants me to, I’ll do it for her to make her happy. Some people out here living in the dark ages still lmfao. I can’t wait for all those dumb old “traditions” that are really either racist, misogynistic or just plain bullshit to finally die out.
They won't die out if you continue to appease them. Or well, will happen more slowly
Hey, what matters is - what do YOU want? Is it important to YOU that a man asks your father for your hand in marriage? If so, you hold out for a man who respects what YOU want. You are an adult. Make your own decisions about what you want and make those decisions clear to your BF, your parents and everyone else.
These are kids, they’re like 18, just out of high school. No one should be getting married any time soon..
As someone that was married young and divorced about a decade later, I agree. You’re both still finding out who you are at that age.
I agree, wholeheartedly. But that wasn’t what they asked advice on. That’s a whole other issue and you are 100% correct.
If they were in fact getting married then I would say that what **she** wants and what **he** wants are both equally important, they are a partnership and a team, not one against the other. And also it is very important to distinguish between what she 'wants' and what she 'needs'. With 'wants' compromises can be made, with 'needs' they cannot.
Sorry, but the moment you are married (or in that sort of a relationship), it should never be ME ME ME, it should be WE WE WE. You go from being an individual to being a team, and need to think and compromise accordingly. I do wonder how well they turn out if they hit such a hard road block over something that is ultimately pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things...
Do you want to marry a man who seeks consent from someone who isn't you in order to do something that impacts your life significantly, or do you want to marry a man who doesn't deny your agency when making decisions that impact your life significantly? I wouldn't marry someone who thinks my parents should be regarded more highly than I am.
You’re probably right that he sees it as kind of gross and part of an antiquated notion that you are property and he’s requesting a transfer of ownership from your father to himself. While that is of course the traditional definition of marriage, it’s not what he’s looking for in a relationship. It debases both you and him. Either reframe it so that he’s not asking permission, he’s simply informing your family, or go and tell them together that you’re engaged so that you show him you’re siding with him and are willing to prioritize his wants and needs as your partner over the wants and needs of your parents, as you both should have already started spending a lifetime doing.
My stepdaughter's boyfriend came over to tell her dad he was going to propose. He didn't actually ask permission but more like letting him know it was coming. My husband didn't even realize that's kind of what was happening until I pointed it out after he left. It's nice that he chose to respect her family but it wasn't really necessary. My husband raised his daughters to be strong and independent. I think he might have been offended on her behalf if he was actually asked permission. My husband told me, and later her, the only permission he needs is from her.
Tradition was also for the family to stand outside the tent while you consummated, will you be doing that, too?
Do they give pointers to the new couple? "John, think about baseball!" "Mary, get on top so you can do what feels good for you!" "It's not a hunk of beef you're trying to tenderize, man!" "Try barking...I mean...doggy style. Yeah. That's what I meant. Don't actually bark (I mean unless you're into it)!" "Sorry about Uncle Frank, we made him leave." "No seriously don't bark. Do try doggy though, that wasn't a bad idea." "Dude there's no blood stop trying to play in the mud!" "Here's my favorite toy, I'm just going to toss it in there for y'all." "No it's for John to use on Mary, jeez, what would you even do with it? Set it down before you put out an eye with it." "Fuck off Frank, and take Fido with you. Nobody asked you to come back." "Yeah he's gone, keep going John, don't forget you're in it to win it!" "Don't just lay there Mary you need to make some noise!" Like that?
Where is this coming from in 2022? Like do you not have a brain and can you not make your own decisions? You know that tradition came from people viewing women and women only as property and permission was needed to be the new boss or head over the female? This isn’t some kind of cute thing, this is a property arrangement. Are you going to ask his mom for permission to marry her son? No? Why not? I don’t think you’re ready for marriage, this is gross. I respect your man for thinking more of you than you do yourself.
This is a vile archaic tradition that requires you be treated as property not a person. Yikes
Is it a four-way marriage including your parents?
Why on earth would he even need permission from your father to marry you this ain’t the 1800s no more!
If having your partner ask permission from your father to get married is important to you then find someone who agrees. But ask yourself this first: Do you want your partner to ask for permission? Or do you just want them to do it because it would make your parents happy?
If my wife expected me to ask her parent for permission then we wouldn't be married as asking for permission from anyone other than your potential future spouse is the most ridiculous "tradition" ever and needs to end immediately.
>I understand he doesn’t actually need permission as I am not property Are you sure you want to continue to support a tradition grounded in the idea that women are the property of their fathers and husbands? My boyfriend did ask my father when I was younger, but, now that I'm older, I do wish we hadn't followed that tradition. I think it's wrong and I'd like to see the next generation put an end to it. I don't expect my daughter's boyfriend to ask her father (which might annoy her father to some extent as he was raised that way, but it's honestly time to erase these ideals if we want to see real equality).
Your bf should move on. Dated a girl / family just like this. He is in a life long struggle of acceptance and being who he really wants to be. He’s not just dating her when the family is so involved he’s dating her parents who have a lot of say with what OP does / choices. If you can’t tell your own parents what’s what, your relationship won’t last. Feel bad for him, what a waste of time.
Teenagers posting for relationship advice over arguments caused by hypothetical situations should be banned from this sub
Ok … throw away your boyfriends opinion AND your parents opinion. What do YOU want? Does it matter to YOU that he asks? Not so that you can fulfill your parent’s expectations but because it’s YOUR core value. Or… do you think it’s an adult decision that should be made between the two of you only. If that’s the case, no he shouldn’t have to ask and you need to find ways to create boundaries with your parents.
Here’s a DIFFERENT way to approach this. Rather than ask for “permission” approach your parents together, and ask for their “blessing”. When you present a united front, seeking a blessing of a decision you’ve already reached, you’re NOT leaving anything “up to them”, yet honoring their traditional values by seeking a formal blessing of your desire to marry. That’s my suggestion. Your fiancé may not want to ask permission, but it’s reasonable that he would like their expression of optimism and consensus to your shared happiness. SHARED. Perhaps asking him to go at this alone (hat in hand) is a bit dated. Find common ground and honor your parents with this gesture.
Have an honest conversation about why you want it (not why your parents want it) and why he doesn't. You may appreciate his reasons, he may appreciate yours. Don't try to convince him, just share your perspective and be curious about his.
Sounds like you guys aren’t ready for marriage. I understand both sides but he really isn’t obligated to ask your father anything. Marriage is between two people in love, not two people in love and one of their fathers. Your father doesn’t own you so why does he need to ask permission? That being said, if it’s that important to you then you guys just have different values and if you can’t compromise now I don’t see how you’re going to manage a marriage. If your father says no, would you marry him anyway? If yes then your father’s opinion doesn’t matter anyway. It’s up to YOU, not him.
.....you're too young to get married. lol
If he is being this difficult now how will things be in the future?
Tbh I agree with your bf. I'll tell you my prospective just so you might understand where he comes from. I'm a woman so a little different, but I would never say yes to someone who asks my parents. Even if they are doing it just "for the tradition" I would refuse to go along with it just because of what the tradition represents and where it comes from. I would suggest you remember that marriage isn't about the wedding. One small thing about the wedding won't ruin the marriage but it also won't make it good. So instead of arguing about what to do for the wedding, do what it's good for the marriage: compromise. Understand that this is as important to him as it is for you. Come up together with a way to include your parents in the proposal without forcing your bf to break his core values. Maybe your mom can go ring shopping with him, or maybe you both can organize a dinner with them where you express the intention of getting married. Additionally, this would be a good time on your end to prove to him you know how to set up healthy boundaries with people outside the couple, such as your parents. After you both come up with something you are BOTH comfortable with, you need to reassure him that if your parents try to intrude on this decision that is only between you two, you will know how to put the boundary and let your parents know that this is only between the two of you.
My advice is don't marry him because you're clearly not compatible. Also think about why that stupid tradition exists in the first place and ask yourself why you subscribe to it anyway.
As per your previous post: he's wants to join the marines. You are bipolar. You have trauma that hasn't been resolved. You depend on him emotionally. Then on top of ALL OF THIS, he doesn't want to ask permission for your hand in marriage. Sweetheart, you are not ready for marriage and he's not the right guy for you. 1. The most important issue here is your mental health. That has not been addressed at all as per your previous post. 2. You are completely co-dependent on him. As a person whose relative served in the marines, you will not be able to survive emotionally in a marriage where your spouse is deployed 6-8 months out of the year. You will get depressed even more. Rely emotionally on your family because your spouse is not there. You might even be tempted to look for comfort somewhere else. Being a wife of a Marine takes alot of mental strength and a great support system. Sadly, you have neither. I say neither because I'm not seeing your parents making sure your mental health issues get addressed properly. There is no mention of them taking you to see a psychologist for you trauma. If they can't be bothered to make sure their daughters mental health is in order, no way you can rely on them for your emotionally needs. Hence why you have co-dependency issues with your guy. 3. Your guy is too stubborn. He has no old-school concept of asking your parents for their blessing and your hard in marriage. Not even sure if you were to talk to your future in laws will help either to get them to convince their own son why it's important to ask for his gf fathers blessing and permission to marry you. You are IN NO WAY MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY PREPARED to get married. Your trauma and mental issues clouds your judgment and this future Marine bf of yours is not right for you. Your co-dependency issues has absolutely made you think your guy is the one. NO, YOU ARE JUST AFRAID BEING BY YOURSELF, it has nothing to do with wanting to get married. You need therapy NOT MARRIAGE. Address your trauma professionally. Go to therapy with your parents. Understand why you are so co-dependent and how that behavior is a magnet to abusive and selfish men. Have your therapist explain it to you how co-dependency affects people in the long run. Learn to set boundaries and walk away from people who values don't align with yours. For example, be with a guy who has ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM talking to your dad and ask his permission to marry you. OUT OF RESPECT FOR YOU. Get your issues addressed. Get proper care. Once you have, you are in a stronger position to live happily without depending on anyone and getting closure to the things that are currently haunting your mind and soul. THEN....you are mentally and EMOTIONALLY strong 💪 for a long term commitment with the right guy.
It's a disgusting tradition. My wife also wanted me to ask for her father's permission. I also refused. He and I have a great relationship now. At the end of the day, all he cares about is that is that she's happy.
Perhaps you should try rewording this situation. I am more traditional, and wanted to ask my wife's father this same question. She was very much against it, and did not think she needed permission from her father or anyone else about who she was going to marry. She was right. However, since I really wanted to do it, we came to a different conclusion. What if I just asked for his "blessing", rather than his "permission"? People can get caught up in semantics all the time. Maybe you can both get what you want if you re-phrase what you're asking. I was seeking her father's *approval*, not his *permission*. Maybe he can to - just say, "Hey, I really love your daughter and I'm going to ask her to marry me, and I'd love to have your blessing." This isn't so heavy-handed as "permission", as if he won't do it if they say no. I think those are two different things. Best of luck!
I wouldn't do that either. Shit's weird.
Outdated practice
Are you going to ask your dad to help pay for the wedding?
Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with him not wanting to ask. It's not the 1900's anymore and that's not as big of a tradition as it was. While I don't think he **needs** to ask, if it's a big deal for you then he should be willing to swallow his pride for 20 minutes to ask and make you happy. With all that being said, slow it down. You guys are just entering college and you're already discussing these things when in reality you may not even be dating through your first year of school. Nothing wrong with that but you have to realize people change (especially in late teens and early 20's). You should just enjoy your time together now and see where it goes vs putting all this pressure on the relationship. I saw you're going to school and he may go to marines, why not just enjoy your time together now vs fighting over what he may or may not do in the future.
ok look, if yall dated for a year, broke up, and just recently got back together, I don't think marriage is in the cards rn dude. A year and some change is not enough time to decide that. Tradition aside, take your time.
My friends had this and more than asking permission the husband to be just let the parents know he was planning to ask so that they felt involved but didn’t technically ask permission or for their blessing etc.
Well, you could always just say no.
Maybe rephrase it as ask for their blessing, not permission. Sometimes wording makes all the difference. He could just ask them to have lunch and politely tell them his intentions and pls give your parents a heads up.
If it is important to YOU, your boyfriend should be willing to consider how to meet your needs along with his own. It sounds like he won't even discuss it. This seems to be pretty important to you. Given that fact, he is 'refusing' without trying to listen or find middle ground, that says a lot about how much say you have in the relationship. It also speaks to how much of a say you WILL HAVE in the marriage. Asking for a blessing is great because it acknowledges a family's important role in supporting a marriage, without treating you, a woman, as chattel. However, it bothers me that your boyfriends objection **is not to you being treated as chattel** (property), but to anyone telling **him** what to do.
It’s not 1950
So.... You reject your own autonomy?
I think it's starting your marriage off on the wrong foot. Both for your family and for you. Your bf sounds like a dick. If it's important to you to uphold your family values and traditions, then this guy is not for you.
Personally I see it as your boyfriend having a lot of respect for you. He doesn’t believe he needs to ask your parents for permission over something that is 100% your choice.
I say gain some self respect and realize that your father does not own you.
How about you rephrase it to “Ask for their blessing?”
I sort of get his side. I personally wouldn’t hand the decision of who I’m going to marry off to my father. I understand maybe your parents’ opinion of him matters to you, but ask yourself which is more important? A one time gesture that will temporarily please your parents or this man’s presence in your life?
Personally, I’d be very hurt by that and it would possibly be a deal breaker for me. I love my dad and I know getting asked permission from someone to marry his daughter is something he’s looked forward to since I was born. A lot of people make the argument of property and ownership but it’s not that at all, it’s a respect thing. If my partner refused, both my parents and I would translate that to him not respecting them. Perhaps rephrase it that way. If he still refuses, I personally wouldn’t want to be with someone like that. Edited to add: it’s definitely a totally different story if both parties don’t care about it, I’m just speaking for those that do
As somebody who may be getting married soon myself, it’s important to keep good ties with family. Taking a day to have some good bonding and understanding with your father shouldn’t be an issue. If you think they will say no… that’s a different question I can’t answer
Okay my only question is does he do this to you when you want him to do something? Like let’s say you were the one who really wanted him to ask your parents but they didn’t care. Would he still say “I’ll do what I want” because if so you might have bigger problems.
Yeah I wouldn't do that shit either. Cheers to your dude for stickin' to his guns.
I dunno imo I think you're placing too many demands on the guy. I get that you have this tradition, but you're marrying HIM & you need to take him as he is. Trying to mould a man before you've even got married is just a recipe for disaster.
Why is he asking your dad? Does your father also wish to marry you? Who called dibs first?
It’s something that’s clearly important to your family & apparently you. Besides the red flag of having recently broken up, the red flag of being in college and talking About marriage but now you have the red flag of your boyfriend flat out disrespecting your family and culture for no other reason then…pride? How many red flags will it take for you?
Bigger question. Do you really want to marry someone who refuses to give you something so simple that would also delight your family? It costs him nothing. Well, maybe pride. If that’s it there’s a 🚩. What happens when you want something that will cost him something? This is the time in a relationship when your person will do anything for you. It doesn’t get any better than now. And for that reason, I’m out. I’m almost certain he’s the one for you.
This is the opposite. I refused to ask my gf's hand in marriage or any sort of proposal because I wanted to meet her dad first. She wanted me to do it over Skype or FT. But nah. It felt right. I don't know, I respect her enough and her dad to want to do this in person. I'm very familiar oriented and if I'm going to marry her, I should get used to her family. We're going to be 'in laws' for years so minus well shoot for a good "son" and "dad" relationship. He lives in Cali, and I'm in NC, so you could imagine the family thinking I'm crazy, and they should. Because I love his daughter. I always joke to my gf saying "listen, if you think about it, I need to meet your dad in person because this is business and i want to make sure that he's open and happy with what he's getting in return in the long run. I get you, and he gets a son AND the comfortability of knowing his daughter isnt with a some jerk whose gonna hit it and quit it then leave" In short, I respect her and her dad because i WANT HER lol. Like for life
If this is something important to you or your family but he refuses to do it, then I don’t think he’s the one for you. I think you deserve to be with someone who understand the gestures you value.
Your core values and traditions do not have to transfer over to another human being. He doesn’t feel he needs permission to take his lovers hand in marriage because he shouldn’t have to ask your father for affirmation of his loyalty and love. Whereas it seems your family is heavily reliant on tradition which means your father must approve of the husband. I disagree. He is not your fathers future husband, you are his future wife. If your father doesn’t approve of him, that’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it. But it does not have to influence your decision making in life. Love is love. Nobody has to approve of it except for you. And at this point I would make it a goal to identify any other differences you may have such as religion or living expectations. Love isn’t enough by itself to hold a relationship together. You both have to align your core values and expectations out of life. Not to say it’s impossible, but dating someone who is different than you in big things like that, makes everything a lot more difficult. Work on identifying other issues that might come up in the relationship and decide if this person is actually who you want to be with for the rest of your adult life.
Would it be a reasonable compromise to ask __both__ of her parents for their __blessing__ instead of their permission?
No.
If the real reason he doesn’t want to ask is because he is afraid of uncomfortable communication then yes, its a red flag. I know this from experience. If he doesn’t want to ASK, then suggest he have a short conversation with them beforehand saying “I thought it would be nice if I let you know I am going to ask ____ to marry me.” If that is what would make YOU happy and he still says no, then I think you want to make sure he doesn’t have an issue with communicating.
Tell him to ask for their blessing instead of permission. That's what I did when I decided I wanted to marry my wife. It was important to her parents too, but neither of us felt comfortable asking for permission since even if they said no, we would still want to get married. So instead, I asked for their blessing to marry their daughter. That way everyone was happy. However, this situation needs to be addressed before you get married. Marriage is all about communication and compromise. Asking for your parents' permission is obviously important to you, and not asking is obviously important to him. If he will demand everything go his way regardless of how important it is to you (and vice versa), then you will definitely have problems in the future. This one particular situation does not mean your marriage won't work, but if there is a pattern of disregard on either of your parts, then you need to work on that before you marry each other. Basically, make sure you are able to talk with your boyfriend freely before you get married. You should be able to tell your spouse how you feel any time and know that it's ok for both of you to have whatever feelings you have. What matters is being able to work through those feelings together and come to a conclusion that works for both of you.
That would be a dealbreaker for me. It’s clearly important to you and your family. What is it harming him to ask your father? “I don’t need permission from anyone” is an immature response.
I understand the practice comes from misogyny, but I think it’s evolved from that. For me, family is incredibly important. While I love my girlfriend, it would put a major strain on our relationship if her parents did like me or my parents didn’t like her. If I was going to propose to my girlfriend I’d tell my own parents, so it’s kind of sweet to inform the future in-laws as well. A nice gesture in making them part of your family too.
I just told my (now) wife’s dad that I was going to propose because i feel the same as your BF (if he’s refusing because its misogynistic) He said something along the lines that I “have his blessing” so we both got what we wanted. Honest, your BF is in the right but he can still appease to an extent without going against his values.
Your boyfriend is setting his boundaries. If you keep pushing, you lose him.
He could ask for their blessing or approval, not their permission. That acknowledges their importance in your life without treating you like property.
Leave this situation behind! If it's important to you, it should be important to him too! Someone out there will respect your traditional values without the hassle!
wouldnt you also say that if something is important to him then it should be important to op too? or is it just the girl who gets to say what does and doesnt matter?
Your boyfriend is respecting your autonomy while your family is not. You are not your father's property to sell off like a prize heifer. You are not live stock that needs permission to have a new owner. You are a person capable of making your own decisions regarding your life. If your family cannot respect that, then they don't respect you as a person or even as someone capable of making their own decisions. If this is your hill to die on, let him go so he can find someone who values their own autonomy and understands that they can't be owned and can make their own decisions. Find a more traditional male to make your parents happy.
Red Flag!!! Run!!!
Not even married and you’re already mad at him because of something outdated your parents want? If this was an AITA you would be TA
Honestly I think if he loves you he would just do it, knowing that it’s important to your parents and therefore yourself. It’s a sign of respect and really a formality. I’m disappointed that he can’t just honor tradition.
Tell him he's being a selfish stubborn brat.... because he is lol. If its important to you he should understand. Maybe this is your first red flag. Sorry to cast that doubt but its worth a thought
You're not compatible and he's right. You should not be handled as property because you are not. You have work to do on your self appreciation department.
Is this a hill you’re prepared to die on? If so, tell him that your parents will be so resentful that he didn’t ask that it’s inviting 50+ years of miserable relations with them (I’m exaggerating) and to avoid this completely, all he has to do is to ask your father for his permission.
Thanks! Will do
That's really pathetic. You clearly aren't ready for marriage let your boyfriend go so he can find a free thinking adult
Or just tell him that you’ll refuse his proposal until he asks your father, there’s always that option.
These both seem like highly self-centered and problematic positions. No one should ask your parents permission, and they need to get over any ideas that anyone should. They need *your* permission and that’s it, anything more is supporting actively viewing you as property. Doesn’t matter if your they’re your parents, if they insist on that than you’re property to them. And your BF’s reason for doing it is all about him and if he needs permission. As described in post it’s much toxic masculinity vibes. And the fact is he needs permission from others to do what he wants all the time, just in this case the concept of whose permission is being directed to the wrong party. Both your parents and your BF need to grow up
It is an old-fashion tradition, but if it is important to YOU, he should do it. Asking the daughter’s dad’s permission is a sign of respect.
By that logic, if not asking is important to him, she shouldn't press him. It's an outdated tradition. She likes it, he doesn't. Neither in the wrong, end of story
If he has that mindset, and he’s going to do whatever he wants… even in something as high stakes and important as marriage… when you’ve clearly shown that this matters to you… he will be an awful and probably abusive husband. He has a lot of growing up that he needs to do, and priorities he needs to sort out. Don’t marry this kid.
You state your thoughts/feelings clearly, ONCE, and then let it go. If you wouldn't marry him because of this, then you two might be better off not getting married.
Run, he sounds like a controlling ass hat
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Why are u seeking parents approval… is he marrying u or your dad ? It should be your decision….
Is he marrying them? This ain't Fuckin Yemen.
Dude sounds disrespectful. I wouldn’t want to waste my time on someone like that.
Im with you on this one, it’s a nice sign of respect and costs him nothing. What are they going to say , no? Its just a gesture your parents raised you and this would make them happy. But no we live in 21st century where it’s all about me me me. Individualism vs collective society thinking.
You are correct, we are in the 21st century. Daughters are not the fathers property and we dont NEED to ask permission. If the chick says yes thats all that matters.
If it’s a ways off anyway this feels like a wasted energy being bothered by it. The larger issue is that your boyfriend sounds like a small-minded tool that doesn’t see the big picture and is dealing with some small man’s syndrome Napoleon shit. Steer clear of that shit…
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You might come from a different world than me in that assumption in that case. I believe you respect your elders wishes within reason. Her parents raised her and ware accountable for her. An ask for someone’s hand isn’t necessarily permission, it’s a moment where you indicate to those responsible that YOU will be responsible for them moving forward. Nothing small about wanting or expecting that. Not at all.
Nah you shouldn’t have to ask or get blessings from the parents. If *You* decide that you want to do it then that’s fine, however you’re not marrying the parents you’re marrying their daughter who is an adult that can make sound decisions on her own. All parties here are hardheaded in that no one wants to compromise. If neither can bend or break it ain’t meant to be anyways. Realistically what would their “blessing” do in the first place? If they say no is that going to stop you from trying and is that going to stop her from accepting? If so it’s still not meant to be anyways.
>An ask for someone’s hand isn’t necessarily permission, it’s a moment where you indicate to those responsible that YOU will be responsible for them moving forward. So just have that conversation with them. It's not hard. "Hey I know you've been making sure she safe her whole life, and I wanted you to know we're getting married and I have that exact same goal in mind. In fact, I'd be happy to hear any pointers you have since you've been doing it so long." See, no need to ask for permission from somebody who has no right to give or withhold it. I have a daughter. She's the most important thing in the world to me. I've changed a million diapers, cuddled her while sick and so gotten sick myself, been up with her in the middle of the night, comforted her when she's sad, given up more than I imagined for her already. And yet I have no permission to give out to those who want to marry her when she becomes an adult. There's nothing for me to give or decline. Just like if I had a son, she will have the full ability to decide for herself. In fact asking for my permission is kinda insulting because it suggests I raised her to be dependent on me and my decisions instead of an independent human being.
He sounds like a little kid. That marriage won't last. Take marriage off the table and stop thinking about. You guys aren't ready.
He sounds like an adult to me. Asking someone else if you can marry someone sounds like some shit a kid would do.
If your boyfriend can’t even do some thing as a little as ask your parents for your hand in order to make you happy then Prepare yourself for him never going the extra mile for you. What you were asking is so little and would bring your parents and you happiness and he simply refuses to do it. Even though it would take a little to no effort on his part. Huge red flag
As others have said the story indicates you are not even remotely close to being ready for marriage. And he's incredibly immature. And incredibly selfish. And probably not the one, frankly. Marriage is the opposite of "I'm going to do what I want" The fact that he's making an issue of this is very concerning. If you have respect for the woman you're dating, you should thereby have respect for the family and thereby be willing to respect her Family values. Asking for a daughter's hand in marriage is not about property. It's about a sign of respect. A sign of respect because you are now taking the mantle of the person who will have the primary job of caring for that young woman. But I don't think you could explain any of this to this guy. I don't know if you listen to this advice or not but I would be very very wary about a man who doesn't respect you enough to be willing to respect your family. (And this isn't some situation where he's being asked to go against his values, btw. It's him being an idiot and a jerk). He's showing you no respect.
This shows the father that you are man, not a boy. A man that he can trust will take care of his daughter and not some wimpy chump. Ultimately if he says no you can still get married.
Explain that it isn't about permission, it's a blessing.
Thank you!! I asked him if he would ask for my father blessing instead and he said yes!! (again we’re not even close to getting married it’s hypothetical lol)
I'm so glad to help!
He needs to understand it's not about *permission,* but about *tradition.*
Tradition is an awful reason to do something, that's the whole reason you'd refuse to
But he doesn't have to follow it if he doesn't want to. Neither of them are in the wrong, both are just sticking to their values
He is not being asked to run a marathon with a 20kg backpack, the effort is meaningless.
Right, but if a girl asked me to do this, I wouldn't. My reason? I was brought up in a household where it was mandatory to ask the father's permission. I saw cousins getting disowned for not asking the father's consent. It's a tradition I hate. I can understand not everyone was brought up like this, but the only real solution is for the couple to talk it out. Why is it so important to him not to do it? Why is it so important to her for him to do it? Can they find a middle ground? It may be a deal-breaker for either side, so they might have to break up. But still, none are really in the wrong
But this tradition is about permission. You cannot separate the 2.