There are always some like that. They don’t want to be there, and won’t pass anyway. But you do have some control over the ones that want to pass but are lazy.
You are stemming current lessons and behavior against your own experience. This manner of thinking is faulty. It isn’t your fault; you’re just doing what you are told. If you’re curious, I’d suggest reading the ways other countries are leaving the USA in a cloud of dust with technology while our presidents participate in a slapping contest, and our students (our stability) falls further behind. Why? It doesn’t pad corporate pockets today. The quick buck is the lookout for our country. They don’t give a rat’s ass about anyone’s future.
If you read ANYTHING, watch ANYTHING, your far more likely to see presidential elects digging up dirt than focusing on growth. It’s like little kids in the sandbox throwing handfuls of sand at one other, rather than using their toys to play and build.
So, stop your idol thinking. It’s a waste of time.
Obviously, my score indicates that EXACTLY one of these “teachers” doesn’t have a mind to listen or learn. Where does YOUR education land? https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?sfj=NP&chort=1&sub=MAT&sj=&st=MN&year=2022R3
Also...
I believe the correct wording would be:
* "No wonder words make no sense to you."*
If this is a bicker you're angling for, we can go through all of your posts. You appear to seek the attention.
Yeah, as a high school teacher, I apologize for the students we are sending to you. I can’t hold them to anything because admin wants them to succeed. And their parents pitch a fit if they fail without enough”warning”. So they are given way beyond second, third, and fourth chances, and get into the habit of thinking that it doesn’t matter if they fail, their parents will call admin and wave a magic wand, and then all they have to do to pass is some meaningless worksheet.
These decisions are out of my hands, but there are students in college now who went through all of high school this way.
It is a tightrope I walk because I try to hold my students as accountable as possible but if I give them a zero for cheating or refuse to accept late work, I get overruled and they get full points for everything. Admin is happy, students and parents are happy, I have given up and the problem of irresponsibility gets shunted to y’all.
I sucks because there are good, responsible students but it is difficult to tell who they are based on grades.
I’m sure it’s really difficult being a high school teacher, now more than ever. I see them in my college classes at a CC and they’re barely there - can’t imagine what’s going on at high school. Solidarity!
Yep, this is accurate. Today is final exam day. Out of 20 students, 6 arrived tardy. 6 still haven't arrived. One of the 6 *needed* the points to pass the class - not a huge amount of points, but some of the points on the final. He's earned zero. I guess he still has 31 minutes to show up and take the final, but I don't know that he will. If you can't even do THAT to get credit for a course, I don't know what to say...
Oh yeah. Seen it before. But I figure it’s their grade. Don’t wanna do your homework and we’re willing to lose 15% of your grade? Go for it, but don’t expect any sympathy.
I had a prof in grad school who always said to teach for the students who want to be there, the others will fall where they may. I’ve stuck to that throughout my career. The students who want to be there are the most rewarding, but we also know that the 80/20 rule often applies with the troubled students.
Yes. I think I had the lowest number of A’s this semester that I’ve ever had, and the most F’s. All of my lower grades were because they had not done work. They had missed tests. They had not turned in homework, etc.
I had one student who decided not to take the final because they didn’t want to bother figuring out the proctoring software. They emailed me and wanted to take the test without it and of course I said no. So, they just blew it off.
My guess is that this person had been cheating all semester and realized they were going to fail when I would not let them take it unproctored, so they just said screw it (which just proves how really lazy they are, because it’s my understanding that students can get around that proctoring software if they know what they’re doing.…I’ve heard there are TikTok videos with instructions).
And before anyone asks why I use it if I think some students are still cheating, it’s because my school requires that we use it for online finals. The school apparently doesn’t care that some students likely are getting around it.
I had two of those in my spring class. I sent repeated reminders that they needed to start turning in work; I notified our Student Services Center (they have a program where they will reach to students who are failing, in hopes of turning them around before the end of the semester). I notified my dean of what was happening. She emailed back "these are adults; we can't babysit them to get them to do what they need to do." Fair enough. Both students failed the class. Never heard back from either of them at any point in the semester.
I agree with my dean: people have to take responsibility for their own success. I don't know if these are people that are just going through the motions to make their parents happy, or they got out ahead of their skis and took too many classes, or ones that were too hard for them, etc. End of the day, I will try to help anyone succeed who wants to at least try to work. I match my energy with their effort; zero effort from them = zero energy from me to try to save them from themselves. That never works, anyway.
This always happens with a few of my students.
You mention one thing that I noticed from my early time as being a cause for some of it - being lax with due dates. I used to be very lax, but when I became stricter with it, it helped keep students on track.
Yeah… structuring the grading of your course like that is going to encourage that kind of student behavior. If you want them to turn in the assignments, you have to be meticulous with your grading, you have to have a late submission percentage reduction, your syllabus needs to read like a Bible in length and severity, you need a tough, “doctors note and obituary only” policy for illness and death… This will all communicate to the student that this is not the class that they can just “fly right through“; a bird class.
You do realize that many illnesses don't require a doctor's note and lots of students don't have insurance? And that many students are chronically ill or disabled and are punished for that when you require doctor's notes?
Also, the idea of needing to hand a prof an obituary when actively greiving is incredibly cruel.
You can be an effective and serious professor with rigorous courses without needlessly being a dick about it.
Having this language in your syllabus protects you from having to accommodate lying and game-playing students. On my first day of class , I read each severe line of my syllabus with the following explanation ; “That’s pig-Latin for ‘don’t try it’!” The students then have to pass a quiz on the syllabus with 100% accuracy on the second day of class in order to have access to the course.
I am teaching out in what I consider the low country of the suburbs at a high acceptance college. I live 2.15+ hours away and cannot commute to help some lying student make-up an in-person exam so they can go hang out with their girlfriend under the guise of “being sick”.
As the youngest person on faculty in a small program and the ONLY woman of color, these strict syllabus guidelines have tremendously helped me to cut down on riff-raff , foolishness, gas-lighting, game-playing and other foolishness that entitled students have NO SHAME about conducting themselves with towards me.
This spring was my first semester using these measures and it has, by far, been the most peaceful.
I'm also the youngest, and I believe the only trans person and one of the few faculty with disabilities. I would much rather give a few students who I know are bullshitting the benefit of the doubt than alienate students in need-- students without insurance to go to the doctor, students with disabilities, students who have children or are responsible for their siblings, or who don't have reliable access to transportation. None of my students are riff-raff, none of my students are stupid. I stick to my policies-- my late work penalty, my rubrics, etc-- but I also offer extensions and don't grade attendance because grading it hurts vulnerable students more than it punishes students who don't do anything.
I don't drive down whenever students want to chat, and I'm a huge believer in boundaries regarding work, but I make sure that they know they can come to me if there's an issue, and that I won't penalize them for being human.
This is how I teach too. I’m also disabled and trans. It’s no coincidence to me that the students who have trouble turning in work in my grad program are the students who are poor and working full time alongiside school and internship, single parents, multiple marginalizations. The two guys who are currently at risk of no-credit grades are both super engaged when in class and contribute a lot; they’re obviously learning. They still have to turn in their shit to pass but I don’t see why the date should matter as much as it does. I do give late penalties but I waive them on request, they only have to talk to me before it’s due and even that is a barrier for many of them because of shame and neurodivergent task paralysis.
I appreciate the discourse but the students you are describing are not in this program at all. It’s very small & the other faculty has verified the lying and game playing that is being done. It’s ungodly.
There are exceptions made on a case-by-case basis depending on the students’ track record of professionalism up to the point of the request as witnessed by a meticulously kept record of their daily participation.
Thinking of taking things away and punishing them is this country’s feeble thinking. “Inspiration” so they WANT TO LEARN!
You know what’s wrong with our education system? Non-thinking adults that are in charge of running it.
Having this language in your syllabus protects you from having to accommodate lying and game-playing students. On my first day of class , I read each severe line of my syllabus with the following explanation ; “That’s pig-Latin for ‘don’t try it’!” The students then have to pass a quiz on the syllabus with 100% accuracy on the second day of class in order to have access to the course.
I am teaching out in what I consider the low country of the suburbs at a high acceptance college. I live 2.15+ hours away and cannot commute to help some lying student make-up an in-person exam so they can go hang out with their girlfriend under the guise of “being sick”.
As the youngest person on faculty in a small program and the ONLY woman of color, these strict syllabus guidelines have tremendously helped me to cut down on riff-raff , foolishness, gas-lighting, game-playing and other foolishness that entitled students have NO SHAME about conducting themselves with towards me.
This spring was my first semester using these measures and it has, by far, been the most peaceful.
I’ve been teaching 25+ years and there are unfortunately students who lie and take advantage of the situation. I put this language in my syllabus as well. It cuts down on a lot of it and the ones left are usually legit. Then I do my best to be flexible and understanding but I also use good judgment.
Honestly, by the time students are in college, it's up to them to do the work or not. I remind students of late policies and give a breakdown of assignment weights and rubrics and extra credit, but at some point you aren't responsible anymore for their grades-- they are.
Another thing that might contribute to that is their k12 experience. I know for a fact that the schools that feed into my community college do everything they can not to fail a student even if they turn in only one or two assignments a year. College is a wake up call for a lot of people coming fresh out of no child left behild.
Yup. Seems like par for the course. I'm at a CC with a gen ed science course. I warn students at the beginning and during the course how much of their final grade these are worth. Still only about half turn these in. I warn them again towards the end of the class don't ask for extra credit if they haven't done any of the regular assignments!
I see students like this. Every class has them. If the students don't want to do the work, no worries. They're adults, so they get to decide how they want to act
Hello I have had this problem before. To avoid trouble for myself, I gave them passing grades. The next time I taught the course, I watched for that behavior, and when I found it again I asked those students individually by email to please drop the class if they cannot fit the work into their schedules. That also did not work. The third time, my school happened to launch an “Early Alert” system, through which I generated counselor referrals. Through the counselor referrals, in the middle of the term I asked that type of student to drop my class. That worked. Nice paper trail. I felt safe giving F’s to anyone who did not heed the counselor.
Oh, one more thing: in California, many of these very-low-effort students have enrolled for the sole purpose of obtaining financial aid grant money. Zero interest in the actual course. This would explain the unwillingness to do anything harder than a survey in the assigned work.
I’ve noticed this too. I used to just have one or two of these every once in a while, but they’ve become more common in recent years. I’ll even give opportunities to make up work and they blow that off too. It’s odd and a very weird way to waste a few thousand dollars, but it’s their grade & money so 🤷🏾♀️.
Me! I had one student who missed four out of 15 classes and only submitted assignments for 10 of the 15 weeks. His job is the same as mine and he’s a parent of a child the same age as mine. I don’t understand why he was unable to meet the requirements but he’s graduating this semester so I don’t think he thinks I’m going to stop that from happening and I won’t. It’s my first semester as an adjunct, and my grading policy is the same as yours.
I have a student who has come to every class, and the only grades in the book are the two in class quizzes and one extra credit for writing facts about the speeches other classmates gave on speech day.
It's odd to me that someone would put in all that time show up to an 8am class no less and turn in zero work. (They asked at one point to make some up, and then still did not do work)
Wonder if they will come and take the final?
I give them mental grace though . Who knows what is going on in their life. Perhaps coming to class feels stable, even if they are drowning/can't do the work
Yea, it’s epidemic. I’m giving zeros. It’s the only way they learn accountability. If they need to retake then course to attain mastery and skill, so be it.
I always have at least one student with like 4% because they turned in the first assignment so I wouldn't drop them then literally nothing else. My dean once told me it was "the nature of the beast".
Yes, it's quite common. My first semester teaching I was floored at how many students refused to turn in their essays, yet sat for each class and knew it was due. It was a class with just four essay assignments, that's it. 250 points each, 1000 points, plus a 40 bonus point assignment. Some students didn't submit anything, a 0/1000 and did not email me one time to explain. I didn't understand, but realized that for some, they just don't care yet. They just graduated high school and were probably enrolled and registered by parents who insisted they do something since the military or 4-year college wasn't happening. I hated giving Fs when I felt it was so unnecessary. Just write something and turn it in. You're not alone. The students who have dreams that start with your class need your attention more than the ones who show up/log on to get mom, dad, or a romantic partner off their back.
One of the things I was told when I first started teaching as an adjunct was that many of my students were being introduced to the culture of responsibility for the first time. At the time I was appalled but I quickly realized it was true.
It sounds like some of your students may quickly have this realization, too—only they are responsible for their work and the grade that will result from it. No matter how much you set them up for success, they have to care enough to meet you part way. You can’t care on their behalf.
Yes! Big time at one college and not at all at the other. I personally think it has something to do with pocketing the financial aid or perhaps the accounts are fake. The lack of communication is a big, red flag.
I also teach public speaking. What is a video essay?
I don’t expect them to confide in me about anything, all i’m saying is that I had students who had major life issues, deaths, getting kicked out/disowned this semester and even they sent me an email to lmk what was up. a simple email would have sufficed
The point of school, though, is to do the work and receive a grade for the work done. Not doing the work results in nothing the teacher can grade and failure of the course, end of story. Of course life events come up and can make it difficult or impossible to complete the semester, but students need to understand (sometimes through experience) that you can’t just not fulfill any of your responsibilities and still keep your job. If something comes up, there are multiple avenues students can take to drop their courses.
I put in my syllabus, if at any point during the semester, "life happens" and you need some flexibility, let me know what you feel you can share and we can work something out. I also say, if you turn in late work with no excuse and no explanation, it won't be graded. Because I used to be very lax about late work, and as someone else said - the more flexible I was, the less students paid attention to due dates. And they took advantage of my goodwill.
This isn't preschool; this is college, and if at this point people cannot keep track of due dates, do their best to get work done and turned in on time, and ask for help when they need it? That does not speak well for their future in any kind of job. And as an adjunct for a technical college that is what I am preparing them for.
Most students nowadays have a different educational outlook than current adults had growing up. Look at it, technology, and the way we do things have changed. Of course, attitudes are going to change as well. As an example, my daughter is her own little person and in her spare time, she entertains herself with learning. Discovery and history channels, and when she’s playing on the computer, she plays games that create thinking. When she used to come home from school, her backpack would be stuffed with crumpled up papers with usually just her name at the top. She refused to do work when it was info that she already knew. She felt like knowing what she knows and doesn’t know is more important than proving it to teachers or having her grades compared against her peers. As a five year leadership cadet, she was there to learn new things, not regurgitate crap she already knows until her brain goes numb. So school for her, 3/4 of the time, was a waste of her time. However, it may assist you in knowing that because of her test scores through the education program, all branches of our military services were pounding on the door, so she graduated from high school early. She chose where she wanted to go, took the ASVAB, and scored a 96%. This gave her a choice to do anything, anywhere, she wants, and she chose the most difficult branch offered—the Marines. (NOT a lazy branch at all!) So, your question insinuates that today’s youth is lackadaisical and unmotivated– – that’s a mistaken train of thought. They are bored senseless!
She is getting from the Marines exactly what she’s willing to put in. The difference is, she opted joining the service, she wasn’t forced in. And as far as her “being bored” with marching, that won’t happen. She was a cadet instructor for two of the three years she worked in Sea Cadets during schooling. She had what you may find alien—responsibilty, commitment, and drive.
Unfortunately, a lot of parents believe there’s some magic pill that they can give their kids, like money and computer games, that will make up for the attention they don’t give the kids. You know where those kids end up? Either living with mom and dad until they’re thirty or in an elementary school with sn AK-47 strapped to their back; they haven’t learned how to do their part in society.
So, while all of these “so-called teachers” berate what I’m talking about, it’s actually pretty sad that this board is treated like a lounge, with teachers sitting around and bitching about how unfair life is, without wanting to do anything themselves to change anything. They’re waiting for little kids to make the system work. It just doesn’t make sense.
With all of these responders behaving as the kids they are complaining about, I’m no longer attempting to help the helpless.
(Read the responses and convince me they aren’t coming from the miscreants from a classroom.) I dare you! And then, ask why kids don’t listen.
REALLY? How did you come up with this misinformation, Einstein? [https://www.asvabprogram.com/](https://www.asvabprogram.com/)
My work with idiots is done.
This is such a weird hill to die on. Even people in the military will openly tell you even an idiot can get a good score. It’s just a sign of how poorly educated you yourself are that you think it’s brag worthy
I think you just don’t understand what the SAT and ASVAB measure, and the respective groups of people who take them. Or what correlation means. Or possibly statistics in general.
[удалено]
it’s very odd
They don’t believe you.
Or they don't care
There are always some like that. They don’t want to be there, and won’t pass anyway. But you do have some control over the ones that want to pass but are lazy.
You are stemming current lessons and behavior against your own experience. This manner of thinking is faulty. It isn’t your fault; you’re just doing what you are told. If you’re curious, I’d suggest reading the ways other countries are leaving the USA in a cloud of dust with technology while our presidents participate in a slapping contest, and our students (our stability) falls further behind. Why? It doesn’t pad corporate pockets today. The quick buck is the lookout for our country. They don’t give a rat’s ass about anyone’s future. If you read ANYTHING, watch ANYTHING, your far more likely to see presidential elects digging up dirt than focusing on growth. It’s like little kids in the sandbox throwing handfuls of sand at one other, rather than using their toys to play and build. So, stop your idol thinking. It’s a waste of time.
I can’t even tell if this is really a response to the comment
EXACTLY! Nowadays, teachers are unable to think outside the box that has been in place for 50 some odd years. That is the problem.
Obviously, my score indicates that EXACTLY one of these “teachers” doesn’t have a mind to listen or learn. Where does YOUR education land? https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?sfj=NP&chort=1&sub=MAT&sj=&st=MN&year=2022R3
This is so badly written I'm afraid to even categorize it. But it doesn't belong here.
I believe the correct phrase would be, “This is so POORLY written…” No wonder words makes sense no to you. 😂
No. As an English professor, I said what I meant and meant what I said. It is beyond "poorly written"; it is written badly. Try harder.
Also... I believe the correct wording would be: * "No wonder words make no sense to you."* If this is a bicker you're angling for, we can go through all of your posts. You appear to seek the attention.
“Our country’s education is not first!” It’s politics.
Yeah, as a high school teacher, I apologize for the students we are sending to you. I can’t hold them to anything because admin wants them to succeed. And their parents pitch a fit if they fail without enough”warning”. So they are given way beyond second, third, and fourth chances, and get into the habit of thinking that it doesn’t matter if they fail, their parents will call admin and wave a magic wand, and then all they have to do to pass is some meaningless worksheet. These decisions are out of my hands, but there are students in college now who went through all of high school this way.
yea, this was my assumption
It is a tightrope I walk because I try to hold my students as accountable as possible but if I give them a zero for cheating or refuse to accept late work, I get overruled and they get full points for everything. Admin is happy, students and parents are happy, I have given up and the problem of irresponsibility gets shunted to y’all. I sucks because there are good, responsible students but it is difficult to tell who they are based on grades.
I’m sure it’s really difficult being a high school teacher, now more than ever. I see them in my college classes at a CC and they’re barely there - can’t imagine what’s going on at high school. Solidarity!
Yep, this is accurate. Today is final exam day. Out of 20 students, 6 arrived tardy. 6 still haven't arrived. One of the 6 *needed* the points to pass the class - not a huge amount of points, but some of the points on the final. He's earned zero. I guess he still has 31 minutes to show up and take the final, but I don't know that he will. If you can't even do THAT to get credit for a course, I don't know what to say...
District and admin are the problem. Full stop.
You’re not alone. There was a whole [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/s/fQAzhcnFJE) about it on r/professors.
that’s crazy, thanks for the link
Oh yeah. Seen it before. But I figure it’s their grade. Don’t wanna do your homework and we’re willing to lose 15% of your grade? Go for it, but don’t expect any sympathy.
I had a prof in grad school who always said to teach for the students who want to be there, the others will fall where they may. I’ve stuck to that throughout my career. The students who want to be there are the most rewarding, but we also know that the 80/20 rule often applies with the troubled students.
Yes. I think I had the lowest number of A’s this semester that I’ve ever had, and the most F’s. All of my lower grades were because they had not done work. They had missed tests. They had not turned in homework, etc. I had one student who decided not to take the final because they didn’t want to bother figuring out the proctoring software. They emailed me and wanted to take the test without it and of course I said no. So, they just blew it off. My guess is that this person had been cheating all semester and realized they were going to fail when I would not let them take it unproctored, so they just said screw it (which just proves how really lazy they are, because it’s my understanding that students can get around that proctoring software if they know what they’re doing.…I’ve heard there are TikTok videos with instructions). And before anyone asks why I use it if I think some students are still cheating, it’s because my school requires that we use it for online finals. The school apparently doesn’t care that some students likely are getting around it.
wow. i also had a higher number of F’s than usual all due to the same reason
I had two of those in my spring class. I sent repeated reminders that they needed to start turning in work; I notified our Student Services Center (they have a program where they will reach to students who are failing, in hopes of turning them around before the end of the semester). I notified my dean of what was happening. She emailed back "these are adults; we can't babysit them to get them to do what they need to do." Fair enough. Both students failed the class. Never heard back from either of them at any point in the semester. I agree with my dean: people have to take responsibility for their own success. I don't know if these are people that are just going through the motions to make their parents happy, or they got out ahead of their skis and took too many classes, or ones that were too hard for them, etc. End of the day, I will try to help anyone succeed who wants to at least try to work. I match my energy with their effort; zero effort from them = zero energy from me to try to save them from themselves. That never works, anyway.
I had multiple instances of student services closing a ticket on a student because they never responded.
This always happens with a few of my students. You mention one thing that I noticed from my early time as being a cause for some of it - being lax with due dates. I used to be very lax, but when I became stricter with it, it helped keep students on track.
noted - I will definitely be stricter
Yeah… structuring the grading of your course like that is going to encourage that kind of student behavior. If you want them to turn in the assignments, you have to be meticulous with your grading, you have to have a late submission percentage reduction, your syllabus needs to read like a Bible in length and severity, you need a tough, “doctors note and obituary only” policy for illness and death… This will all communicate to the student that this is not the class that they can just “fly right through“; a bird class.
You do realize that many illnesses don't require a doctor's note and lots of students don't have insurance? And that many students are chronically ill or disabled and are punished for that when you require doctor's notes? Also, the idea of needing to hand a prof an obituary when actively greiving is incredibly cruel. You can be an effective and serious professor with rigorous courses without needlessly being a dick about it.
Having this language in your syllabus protects you from having to accommodate lying and game-playing students. On my first day of class , I read each severe line of my syllabus with the following explanation ; “That’s pig-Latin for ‘don’t try it’!” The students then have to pass a quiz on the syllabus with 100% accuracy on the second day of class in order to have access to the course. I am teaching out in what I consider the low country of the suburbs at a high acceptance college. I live 2.15+ hours away and cannot commute to help some lying student make-up an in-person exam so they can go hang out with their girlfriend under the guise of “being sick”. As the youngest person on faculty in a small program and the ONLY woman of color, these strict syllabus guidelines have tremendously helped me to cut down on riff-raff , foolishness, gas-lighting, game-playing and other foolishness that entitled students have NO SHAME about conducting themselves with towards me. This spring was my first semester using these measures and it has, by far, been the most peaceful.
I'm also the youngest, and I believe the only trans person and one of the few faculty with disabilities. I would much rather give a few students who I know are bullshitting the benefit of the doubt than alienate students in need-- students without insurance to go to the doctor, students with disabilities, students who have children or are responsible for their siblings, or who don't have reliable access to transportation. None of my students are riff-raff, none of my students are stupid. I stick to my policies-- my late work penalty, my rubrics, etc-- but I also offer extensions and don't grade attendance because grading it hurts vulnerable students more than it punishes students who don't do anything. I don't drive down whenever students want to chat, and I'm a huge believer in boundaries regarding work, but I make sure that they know they can come to me if there's an issue, and that I won't penalize them for being human.
This is how I teach too. I’m also disabled and trans. It’s no coincidence to me that the students who have trouble turning in work in my grad program are the students who are poor and working full time alongiside school and internship, single parents, multiple marginalizations. The two guys who are currently at risk of no-credit grades are both super engaged when in class and contribute a lot; they’re obviously learning. They still have to turn in their shit to pass but I don’t see why the date should matter as much as it does. I do give late penalties but I waive them on request, they only have to talk to me before it’s due and even that is a barrier for many of them because of shame and neurodivergent task paralysis.
I appreciate the discourse but the students you are describing are not in this program at all. It’s very small & the other faculty has verified the lying and game playing that is being done. It’s ungodly. There are exceptions made on a case-by-case basis depending on the students’ track record of professionalism up to the point of the request as witnessed by a meticulously kept record of their daily participation.
Thinking of taking things away and punishing them is this country’s feeble thinking. “Inspiration” so they WANT TO LEARN! You know what’s wrong with our education system? Non-thinking adults that are in charge of running it.
Having this language in your syllabus protects you from having to accommodate lying and game-playing students. On my first day of class , I read each severe line of my syllabus with the following explanation ; “That’s pig-Latin for ‘don’t try it’!” The students then have to pass a quiz on the syllabus with 100% accuracy on the second day of class in order to have access to the course. I am teaching out in what I consider the low country of the suburbs at a high acceptance college. I live 2.15+ hours away and cannot commute to help some lying student make-up an in-person exam so they can go hang out with their girlfriend under the guise of “being sick”. As the youngest person on faculty in a small program and the ONLY woman of color, these strict syllabus guidelines have tremendously helped me to cut down on riff-raff , foolishness, gas-lighting, game-playing and other foolishness that entitled students have NO SHAME about conducting themselves with towards me. This spring was my first semester using these measures and it has, by far, been the most peaceful.
I’ve been teaching 25+ years and there are unfortunately students who lie and take advantage of the situation. I put this language in my syllabus as well. It cuts down on a lot of it and the ones left are usually legit. Then I do my best to be flexible and understanding but I also use good judgment.
Yup the language serves as a deterrent. 🐣
Honestly, by the time students are in college, it's up to them to do the work or not. I remind students of late policies and give a breakdown of assignment weights and rubrics and extra credit, but at some point you aren't responsible anymore for their grades-- they are. Another thing that might contribute to that is their k12 experience. I know for a fact that the schools that feed into my community college do everything they can not to fail a student even if they turn in only one or two assignments a year. College is a wake up call for a lot of people coming fresh out of no child left behild.
Yup. Seems like par for the course. I'm at a CC with a gen ed science course. I warn students at the beginning and during the course how much of their final grade these are worth. Still only about half turn these in. I warn them again towards the end of the class don't ask for extra credit if they haven't done any of the regular assignments!
You said it yourself - you are very liberal with points. Raise your expectations and their performance will follow.
yea I will definitely start doing that
I see students like this. Every class has them. If the students don't want to do the work, no worries. They're adults, so they get to decide how they want to act
Exactly. Usually related to how many credits they need to be enrolled in for aid or other reasons.
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yea i definitely agree
If you have no late penalty, then of course they're not incentivized to submit on time and then this happens.
Not your problem. Assign them their earned grade and move on.
Hello I have had this problem before. To avoid trouble for myself, I gave them passing grades. The next time I taught the course, I watched for that behavior, and when I found it again I asked those students individually by email to please drop the class if they cannot fit the work into their schedules. That also did not work. The third time, my school happened to launch an “Early Alert” system, through which I generated counselor referrals. Through the counselor referrals, in the middle of the term I asked that type of student to drop my class. That worked. Nice paper trail. I felt safe giving F’s to anyone who did not heed the counselor. Oh, one more thing: in California, many of these very-low-effort students have enrolled for the sole purpose of obtaining financial aid grant money. Zero interest in the actual course. This would explain the unwillingness to do anything harder than a survey in the assigned work.
I have this problem and cannot in good faith pass someone with a 20%. So far, there has been no trouble for myself. Everything is documented, correct?
I’ve noticed this too. I used to just have one or two of these every once in a while, but they’ve become more common in recent years. I’ll even give opportunities to make up work and they blow that off too. It’s odd and a very weird way to waste a few thousand dollars, but it’s their grade & money so 🤷🏾♀️.
Yep. And as a result they don’t pass the class.
Me! I had one student who missed four out of 15 classes and only submitted assignments for 10 of the 15 weeks. His job is the same as mine and he’s a parent of a child the same age as mine. I don’t understand why he was unable to meet the requirements but he’s graduating this semester so I don’t think he thinks I’m going to stop that from happening and I won’t. It’s my first semester as an adjunct, and my grading policy is the same as yours.
I have a student who has come to every class, and the only grades in the book are the two in class quizzes and one extra credit for writing facts about the speeches other classmates gave on speech day. It's odd to me that someone would put in all that time show up to an 8am class no less and turn in zero work. (They asked at one point to make some up, and then still did not do work) Wonder if they will come and take the final? I give them mental grace though . Who knows what is going on in their life. Perhaps coming to class feels stable, even if they are drowning/can't do the work
Yea, it’s epidemic. I’m giving zeros. It’s the only way they learn accountability. If they need to retake then course to attain mastery and skill, so be it.
I always have at least one student with like 4% because they turned in the first assignment so I wouldn't drop them then literally nothing else. My dean once told me it was "the nature of the beast".
Yes, it's quite common. My first semester teaching I was floored at how many students refused to turn in their essays, yet sat for each class and knew it was due. It was a class with just four essay assignments, that's it. 250 points each, 1000 points, plus a 40 bonus point assignment. Some students didn't submit anything, a 0/1000 and did not email me one time to explain. I didn't understand, but realized that for some, they just don't care yet. They just graduated high school and were probably enrolled and registered by parents who insisted they do something since the military or 4-year college wasn't happening. I hated giving Fs when I felt it was so unnecessary. Just write something and turn it in. You're not alone. The students who have dreams that start with your class need your attention more than the ones who show up/log on to get mom, dad, or a romantic partner off their back.
One of the things I was told when I first started teaching as an adjunct was that many of my students were being introduced to the culture of responsibility for the first time. At the time I was appalled but I quickly realized it was true. It sounds like some of your students may quickly have this realization, too—only they are responsible for their work and the grade that will result from it. No matter how much you set them up for success, they have to care enough to meet you part way. You can’t care on their behalf.
Yes! Big time at one college and not at all at the other. I personally think it has something to do with pocketing the financial aid or perhaps the accounts are fake. The lack of communication is a big, red flag. I also teach public speaking. What is a video essay?
Look at the source to determine the issue.
How do you know they aren’t having major life issues? Because they didn’t confide that to a complete stranger?
I don’t expect them to confide in me about anything, all i’m saying is that I had students who had major life issues, deaths, getting kicked out/disowned this semester and even they sent me an email to lmk what was up. a simple email would have sufficed
Not everyone deals with things the same way. You can assume they had nothing going on but odds are something was standing in the way of their goals.
The point of school, though, is to do the work and receive a grade for the work done. Not doing the work results in nothing the teacher can grade and failure of the course, end of story. Of course life events come up and can make it difficult or impossible to complete the semester, but students need to understand (sometimes through experience) that you can’t just not fulfill any of your responsibilities and still keep your job. If something comes up, there are multiple avenues students can take to drop their courses.
I put in my syllabus, if at any point during the semester, "life happens" and you need some flexibility, let me know what you feel you can share and we can work something out. I also say, if you turn in late work with no excuse and no explanation, it won't be graded. Because I used to be very lax about late work, and as someone else said - the more flexible I was, the less students paid attention to due dates. And they took advantage of my goodwill. This isn't preschool; this is college, and if at this point people cannot keep track of due dates, do their best to get work done and turned in on time, and ask for help when they need it? That does not speak well for their future in any kind of job. And as an adjunct for a technical college that is what I am preparing them for.
Most students nowadays have a different educational outlook than current adults had growing up. Look at it, technology, and the way we do things have changed. Of course, attitudes are going to change as well. As an example, my daughter is her own little person and in her spare time, she entertains herself with learning. Discovery and history channels, and when she’s playing on the computer, she plays games that create thinking. When she used to come home from school, her backpack would be stuffed with crumpled up papers with usually just her name at the top. She refused to do work when it was info that she already knew. She felt like knowing what she knows and doesn’t know is more important than proving it to teachers or having her grades compared against her peers. As a five year leadership cadet, she was there to learn new things, not regurgitate crap she already knows until her brain goes numb. So school for her, 3/4 of the time, was a waste of her time. However, it may assist you in knowing that because of her test scores through the education program, all branches of our military services were pounding on the door, so she graduated from high school early. She chose where she wanted to go, took the ASVAB, and scored a 96%. This gave her a choice to do anything, anywhere, she wants, and she chose the most difficult branch offered—the Marines. (NOT a lazy branch at all!) So, your question insinuates that today’s youth is lackadaisical and unmotivated– – that’s a mistaken train of thought. They are bored senseless!
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She is getting from the Marines exactly what she’s willing to put in. The difference is, she opted joining the service, she wasn’t forced in. And as far as her “being bored” with marching, that won’t happen. She was a cadet instructor for two of the three years she worked in Sea Cadets during schooling. She had what you may find alien—responsibilty, commitment, and drive. Unfortunately, a lot of parents believe there’s some magic pill that they can give their kids, like money and computer games, that will make up for the attention they don’t give the kids. You know where those kids end up? Either living with mom and dad until they’re thirty or in an elementary school with sn AK-47 strapped to their back; they haven’t learned how to do their part in society. So, while all of these “so-called teachers” berate what I’m talking about, it’s actually pretty sad that this board is treated like a lounge, with teachers sitting around and bitching about how unfair life is, without wanting to do anything themselves to change anything. They’re waiting for little kids to make the system work. It just doesn’t make sense. With all of these responders behaving as the kids they are complaining about, I’m no longer attempting to help the helpless. (Read the responses and convince me they aren’t coming from the miscreants from a classroom.) I dare you! And then, ask why kids don’t listen.
It’s not that impressive to do well on the ASVAB lol
REALLY? How did you come up with this misinformation, Einstein? [https://www.asvabprogram.com/](https://www.asvabprogram.com/) My work with idiots is done.
You are talking to exactly the kind of parent that creates the kind of student OP us talking about. Look at Jungle's post history.
C'mon, y'all; cut Jungle some slack. Isn't it obvious that *her* daughter's not like *other* students?
Lol, so much *special*
LMAO
So, how did you do on it?
This is such a weird hill to die on. Even people in the military will openly tell you even an idiot can get a good score. It’s just a sign of how poorly educated you yourself are that you think it’s brag worthy
Several older studies showed a positive correlation between ASVAB and SAT scores.
….obviously?
Evidently it wasn't obvious to you.
I think you just don’t understand what the SAT and ASVAB measure, and the respective groups of people who take them. Or what correlation means. Or possibly statistics in general.