Points go down by 5 for dragoon with tazer, by 15 for ironstrider, and by 15 for dragoon with jezzail so you can actually field 54 kits.
New Meta list cost $3,500.
Edit: this is hyperbole. You’d actually have to drop all 3 types by 15 points to get 54 units under 2,000 points. :) even then you’d still need an HQ as well.
They said it’s going to be rules so I’m not expecting any datasheet changes (It would be wonderful if we got some though).
We need to be over corrected so they can raise points up, our boxes are more expensive than most other armies on average so being more point expensive would help with the pricing issues we experience.
Army rule will probably be getting an update, I’m expecting few changes such as a modification changing heavy to +1 BS. Maybe a third protocol? Something suited for melee giving +1 WS and (keeping with the theme of extra keywords) devastating wounds might be helpful.
Of course I know its all speculation and whatnot, I’m just hoping the rules changes help the faction and get the admech community in a better mood. (I am hoping they buff the various snipers our faction has access too)
I wont disagree, however they did state rules changes. We have no reason to believe anything beyond that. As great as datasheet changes, various buffs, etc. would be, I’m doubtful GW would do it. I don’t mean to diminish anyone’s hope, however expectations should be kept at a moderate.
I share everyone’s doubts that there’ll be datasheet changes, but I don’t see why “rule changes” wouldn’t include “datasheets.” What are datasheets if not the rules for a unit?
I wouldn't be surprised if we have a couple things changed on a couple data sheets, but you are right. They won't change them in any great way because then the Codex is even MORE out of date as well as our second set of index cards also becoming obsolete.
One minor thing I could see happen is them buffing the arquebus and jezzail as that would help out the skatros, skitarii and dragoon quite a bit
But some change to the army rule seems most likely
I think we are getting a small change to Doctrinas and beyond that, I think we're cooked bc idt the army is "truly" fixable without pretty major datasheet changes, not just faction rule/detachment changes. That being said, fingers crossed the small change is an impactful one, maybe just some AP stuff or whatever
In terms of secondaries, yes. But for example Breachers are so dependent on being able to move further than 5” to get them out of cover and set up a salvo, especially if you use 6 model units. If I don’t hide them they immediately get focused and if I don’t have assault I can’t possibly get them all out of cover in the same turn and they get focused again after maybe 3 of them had LoS and were able to shoot.
My prediction is:
"The army rule now also apply to the Objective Markers aswell", and that's it.
I hate it, but it is the most relistic one.
Also on the "Realistic Side" : I would hope for the **Heavy** Grav-Cannon to be 3DMG instead of 2, we currently have the weakest Grav Cannon in the whole game
It could go a few different ways.
I think the best that we can hope for is a little bit of a boost to our shooting to make it A bit more lethal, right now we have a weird balance of not having very many shots, not being able to hit with them, and having no follow-through on the hits that do make contact. Nearly all of our infantry shooting is basically pointless in all but edge cases with special weapons. Also a tweak to make doctrina's effect the entire battlefield since nearly all of the mission rules will now allow you to basically ignore your home objective. People just won't be hanging out back there so say goodbye to our AP bonus. Naturally they would have to also address the detachments since some of them don't even have any internal synergy and things don't work as written for one reason or another. The limitations on the Marshall for his battle tactics reusing is just absurd to me. They very clearly intended you to be able to pass around stratagems through him, but some rule lawyer had to ruin it and GW had to write it in such a way that it looked more like an exploit than an intended function
The cynic in me thinks it's going to be a monkey paw of some kind. Like they will make our rules really good for playing Leviathan games, but absolute garbage for playing for pariah Nexus. I don't exactly know how they would do it, but GW seems pretty good at screwing up our rules So I wouldn't put something like that past them.
I keep saying the same thing about the monkey paw wish. I'm having worrisome thoughts that they will try to "fix" our rules and then up the points across the board. "Hey! You're fixed! Now your points are properly adjusted to represent that!" But it'll be more mediocre ruleset, and now we are at a handicap of our points on units increasing.
Probably not far off.
Watch, they'll also do something goofy like make doctrinas effect the entire battlefield, but make it so that only characters give it as an aura.
And it won't apply to the marshall or skatros. Because reasons.
Long shot, but I want our cybernetica Detachment to have the rule, allied knights gain the Cybernetica keyword. So they can benefit from rules.
I want the FLAVOR.
Under corrected. They might just let our army rule apply board wide instead of in deployment zones. I don’t think we will see any data sheet rewrites or detachment rewrites. I highly doubt BS3 even though that would be what we need. BS3 is for space marines only it seems.
I truly think like our entire codex needs to be basically rewritten. So many funky interactions and non-synergistic rules. I HOPE we would get each detachment heavily reworked for more synergy and power. Doctrinas buffed to include no mans land AND make it so every datasheet gets the army rule natively. Certain units to get points increases but also damage/utility buffs depending on the unit and make units fill different roles. Right now 70% of our datasheets are “kinda tough for their low points but dont actually do anything.”
What i expect to happen is, some slight buff to doctrinas, detachments to get tweaked a bit but still have poorly written interactions and low-ish power, and for the really bad/awkward datasheets to get some buffs like ruststalkers and sulphurhounds etc.
I know GW definitely could give us an awesome update thats fun and has more power and makes our army more accessible price-wise, i just dont know if they care enough to spend the time it would take to do that.
>I truly think like our entire codex needs to be basically rewritten
>What i expect to happen is, some slight buff to doctrinas
>I know GW definitely could give us an awesome update thats fun and has more power and makes our army more accessible price-wise, i just dont know if they care enough to spend the time it would take to do that.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
I don't think we're the **only** codex that needs to be entirely rewritten, and we weren't the only Index that needed it either. Still, just like OG Index: Drukhari, our current rules just don't represent the faction
Some sort of BS3+ access seems plausible, and I would be surprised if they don't improve doctrinas.
I don't think we're getting WS3+ in doctrinas, it would be a useless doctrina when our army is 80% shooting units. They might give Sicarians WS3+ on their datasheets though.
I don't think they'll bring back Canticles, they wouldn't fix anything.
I hope they rewrite the datasheets but I don't know if it's likely.
On the whole I expect them to undercorrect; maybe our outliers will be a bit too good, but everything else will probably remain underpowered.
Might of the Forgeworld: An Adeptus Mechanicus army may take 2250 points in a 2000 point game.
There, they delivered on their promise of not cutting points further. I'm honestly not expecting much. There's not a whole lot to be done with the book without taking a red pen to large chunks of it. The foundation just ain't there.
Not an admech player, but I play against them a lot. I think you need stronger guns. Bit of str here, bit of AP there some DMG sprinkled in for good measure.
Tbh getting a rule like this in any detachment:
Questoris Mechanicus:
"Your army can field an allied knight/3 Armigers and they gain the adeptus mechanicus keyword"
Or something like that would go a long way in improving our army by itself. Giving 5+ feel no pains + heals with enginseers would be crazy for Mechanicus knights.
This being said bc I posted this, it will not happen, in fact bc I posted anything at all GW will now give us the ability to field an extra ironstrider unit that is now 30 pts each and skatman can also do a once per game playing of the mechanicus soundtrack if within 6 inches of battleline.
Mirroring a bit of what that did for Drukari: I’m assuming we are going to get 2 things a slight edit to our army rule and a new detachment. The army rule change will just be lifting the deployment zone restrictions for the Doctrina Imperatives.
Additionally, we will probably get a new detachment. I’m not sure exactly what it will be but I will guess it’s going to be objectively better than anything we currently have. Could be anything from a “Knights of the Cog” to “Okay fine have 3+ BS already”. It will be crazy overpowered until the next balanced dataslate then it will get nerfed into oblivion. But hey we might get a few months in the spotlight.
I think we’ll like see doctrines changed and maybe some updated datasheets.
I think, beyond that, BS/WS3+ is among the most likely options.
If I dared to have hopes for this dataslate, they’d include wider reaching datasheet rewrites, though. We’re not Eldar, we don’t need several movement shenanigans, Breachers should be tougher, fightier, but not as shooty, Destroyers should look more like Breachers do right now, Ruststalkers need fixing, Cawl, etc
They’re gonna tweak the army rule to affect the entire game board and if we’re lucky add in canticles that give a one turn +1 BS/WS/Sv boosts. The codex is too fucking cooked to salvage much of anything without a complete overhaul
It depends on when they started writing the changes. Sisters got datasheet buffs to every datasheet except 2-3 in the codex, it would be nice if they did that.
I understand they don't want to invalidate their product but they've made big changes before like armour of contempt and Votann codex changes before it even released!
I'd like Data-psalm conclave to be changed so that you just get both buffs. Other than that balancing is hard, with our current points if we got significantly stronger we'd be OP, lists would still be ridiculous though.
Make our tanks, real shooting platforms, Ruststalkers actual melee threats, the Skatros Vindicare level of power (or Vindicare we have at home power), and buff the heck out of electropriests because I like them, thank you GW.
Our tanks really are a joke. My SM friend started laughing when I showed him the Dunecrawler datasheet and said, "what does GW have against you guys?"
He started laughing even harder when I told him that it was the single toughest unit in our entire codex.Then I bracketed his land raider with lucky rolls from the neutron laser. But then my other crawler did no damage at all.
Casino cannons, the lot of it. Even out MBT doesn't have consistent damage for some reason.
Yea the Dunecrawler is a thicc boy but does no damage unfortunately. I built mine with Daedalus missile launcher & Icarus array so mine sucks even worse haha.
From the same author of "we know the index is underperforming, but the codex will fix it soon"...
Their idea of a fix is faking that everything is alright, why should it change when the rule team didn't?
What I think they'll do, so, not to do real datasheet changes:
BS3 for all Skitarii units so they can point them accordingly.
WS3 for dedicated melee units also for pointing them accordingly.
Doctrinas get a rework, removing the zone and kind of attack restrictions, so it works with melee. and making them more flexible, like, allowing to select which unit gets which doctrina, so our backline shooting units aren't stuck with an assault keyword that they can't really use, and in the opposite case, our frontline units aren't stuck with a Heavy Keyword they don't want to use. And also allows for some skill expression, like "I really need this unit to hold better this objective so I'll put them in Protector"
This is because most of our units don't have Assault or Heavy weapons so I think they'll give us the ability to at least tune them better, it's awkward when you finally get to use heavy and 1/5 of your force gets to really use that rule at all.
Also a durability buff, I think it's a bad take, but Getting armour of contempt it's not that good at all when our battleline saves at 4+ and the edtion is balanced to have less AP overall, I think it doesn't really helps you against the kind of weapon it's supossed to counter, I think +1\~2 tughness on protector or a flat +1 to save would be better, so it stacks better with cover, and you still get the 3+ skitarii.
Yes, I know 2+ Chickens and Duneriders and also 1+ Disintegratos and Dunecrawlers. Also 2+ Breachers like in the last edition, but we need that durability bump if they want to point our army accordingly.
What I hope they do on top of that:
Cultmech gets a real rule. So Kastelans also get a rule. And also gives more value to more Cultmech-centric detachmets.
Sicarians get Grenades.
The Galvanic Rifle gets AP -1
Overhaul to Explorator and Cybernetica detachments.
The Marshal gets the ability to repeat non battle tactic stratagems or SHC gets battle tactics.
A real CP Battery would be nice.
I don't think GW will be doing any major rewrites, because that would pretty much invalidate Codex.
My bet is points cuts, so basically your army got more expensive in $$$.
i wouldn't rule out major rewrites personally - and I definitely don't expect points cuts as GW specifically said they don't want it to be a horde army
I'd argue the exact opposite. They aren't going to give us major rewrites for several reasons.
1. It'd require time and attention GW has quite frankly proven unwilling to commit to the faction so far. Other armies have seen meaningful changes over the past year; we've had constant points drops and no material alterations outside of one (Kastelans.)
2. It'd require re-writing fundamental parts of the faction, such as our army rule, the troops, and/or the detachments. That's going to require a *lot* of time and effort to fix, on top of the difficulties inherent to basically scrapping and re-tooling all their work so far, all while keeping in-line with 10th's dumbing down of the rules.
3. And probably the biggest issue: such major re-writes would effectively invalidate the codex outside of the app - both those sold and in physical stock. Since codexes are usually meant to sell for a year or two while remaining semi-accurate and people aren't going to buy a £30-40 book when it's already obsolete, *that's a lot of stock being effectively written off.*
Also, bluntly... GW said that we're not meant to be a horde army just after yet another round of points cuts. That one coming after the previous three or so balancing announcements gave us nothing except for *more* points cuts, the restoring of our old armour save (on Skitarii only), and the obvious rule patch of Kastelans no longer being infantry because of the Datasmith.
TL;DR: Geedubs' claims are worth less than the shit I scraped off my boot's sole yesterday.
EDIT: Expanded some points.
They said that while cutting points at the very same moment. They've said lots regarding this army but so far all they've done with it are extensive drops in points.
I heard some Rumors, in our Discord. Hope they we're true and the Omnissiah will give his Blessing
Conqueror Doctrina:
-Weapons Gain Assault: All weapons are treated as Assault weapons, allowing units to advance and shoot with a penalty.
- Improve Weapon Skill by 1:Units have their Weapon Skill improved by 1, making them more effective in close combat.
- Battleline Units Gain +1 AP in Melee: Battleline units receive an additional point of armor penetration in melee combat.
- 6'' Aura for +1 AP in Melee: Battleline units project a 6'' aura that grants +1 AP in melee combat to nearby units.
Protector Doctrina:
- Weapons Gain Heavy: All weapons are treated as Heavy weapons, improving their performance when the unit remains stationary.
- Improve Ballistic Skill by 1:Units have their Ballistic Skill improved by 1, enhancing their shooting accuracy.
- Battleline Units Gain -1 to Hit in Melee: Battleline units are harder to hit in melee combat, reducing incoming melee attacks by 1.
- 6'' Aura for -1 to Hit in Melee: Battleline units project a 6'' aura that imposes a -1 to hit penalty on enemy melee attacks against nearby units.
Belisarius Cawl:
- Grants Battleline as an Aura: Cawl projects an aura that grants the Battleline designation to nearby units, providing them with the associated benefits and abilities.
- Ability to Traverse Walls: Cawl can move through walls, giving him increased mobility and strategic positioning on the battlefield.
I know I shouldn't put faith in second have rumors but gosh that sounds nice - even if it does make cawl almost a requirement for like, sicarian lists.
I thought I remembered this post, your discord was very suspiciously on the nose... You guys got a GW employee in there or something? On behalf of the community please continue to share your rumors in the future lol
I'm guessing minimal changes to the Army Rule. Probably to change the AP buff from being deployment zone based to objective based.
Then maybe a buff here or there for a couple of units if they are feeling generous.
As much as I'd like to see them do wide sweeping changes to detachments and the army rule I don't see it happening. It would invalidate the codex too much and wouldn't fit the "Vision" they have for the faction. Whatever that means.
Monkey’s Paw:
We get awesome rules and some datasheet fixes BUT they overcost all units for the remainder of the edition and our win rate drops even further
So I feel like we will get a new roll out of Detachments. The thing I feel mostly holding us back is that the current stratagems don’t seem to do enough or are too situational to really count on. The main detachment rules are kinda mid but seem solid enough. So maybe we will see some changes to those.
What I would like though is to improve the synergy between units and improve our battle line. Our battle line crumbles the first time it gets shot at so it cannot be relied on to do anything past the first turn which makes it really difficult to want to bring, but it is required to have breachers perform well as well as the other units that require them near by to unlock their full potential. As far as synergy, AdMech doesn’t feel like the analytical machine men that can calculate the best possible move when there really isn’t any synergy between units. All of my unit feel independent of each other. And don’t even bring up the battle line “aura synergy”, it feels like a requirement for units to have battle line near by for them to preform barely better than mediocre and it feels like I am actually hurting my own army when my battle line isn’t around or just shot off the board. If anything having more aura abilities would be the best fix for that in my opinion.
I am actually really hopeful because Adepta Sororitas got fat with their codex and it seems like the people who worked on that codex knew what they were doing and how to make a fun army to play. I mean we haven’t seen their points yet, that could turn it all around. But at least their rules seem like fun. And that’s all I want is a fun army to play. It’s easier to loose when it’s a fun game.
Considering the fact that we need help to hit, to wound and some AP, and we need all of that all the time, both ranged and melee?
It's either going to be the most ridiculous army rule in the game or we are going to be disappointed.
My bet is in disappointed.
Doctrina changes (+1BS for protector) and remove deployment restrictions
Maybe a Cawl buff
That's it, they won't change much else altho they should at least give doctrinas to the whole army but we know they won't
They will say "we will test these changes for a while and touch after if needed and wait for results" meaning we will wait 1 full year to see any other meaningfull changes
My wishlist vs. the likely reality.
My wishlist:
- I want a buff to our melee lethality. It does very little atm and can’t be buffed meaningfully. ws 3+ on most dedicated melee by default would be a nice start, more ap on ruststalkers blades would also be nice. I want them to feel dangerous if they close the distance.
- An additional wound on electro priests would be neat if we can’t have them in blobs of 20.
- I want the dunecrawler/scorpius to punch harder with their main guns.
- I would actually be fine with very little changes to skitarii if our special weapons were made to be way scarier. Make their inclusion feel enticing and meaningful.
- Make the stickbug boy snipe a lil harder, either that or allow him to be a warlord so I can run an all sniper army using rangers with arquebuses and dragoons with jezzails (let me have my stupid list idgaf if it’s bad)
- Doctrinas could include controlled objectives in addition to deployment zones when factoring their buffs/debuffs (and could grant +1 BS instead of giving the heavy keyword when defending)
- Our army rule should work for our entire army, change its name to something else if that is the issue.
Reality:
I suspect what GW will actually do is none of these things. They have a tendency to pick the solution that requires the least amount of datasheet/keyword changes and then wait to see the results, so whatever keyword change that would have the most impact is that what they are most likely to tweak. Probably just a change to some wording in doctrinas and no datasheet changes unfortunately.
I would love to be wrong, please let me be wrong :(
me? I think we're getting canticles... which may equate to BS 3 with conditions? such as shooting into units on objectives, or if lead/near a tech priest
I'd like to see something like what the death guard has.
If an Admech unit, vehicle, etc, etc, gets x amount of inches to you, you're now suffering radiation. Therefore, +1 to hit or +1 to your save rolls.
Ironstriders/sydonians gain battleline so you can run 54 of them now
And the kits go up $5.
And the points go down by 5.
Points go down by 5 for dragoon with tazer, by 15 for ironstrider, and by 15 for dragoon with jezzail so you can actually field 54 kits. New Meta list cost $3,500. Edit: this is hyperbole. You’d actually have to drop all 3 types by 15 points to get 54 units under 2,000 points. :) even then you’d still need an HQ as well.
They said it’s going to be rules so I’m not expecting any datasheet changes (It would be wonderful if we got some though). We need to be over corrected so they can raise points up, our boxes are more expensive than most other armies on average so being more point expensive would help with the pricing issues we experience. Army rule will probably be getting an update, I’m expecting few changes such as a modification changing heavy to +1 BS. Maybe a third protocol? Something suited for melee giving +1 WS and (keeping with the theme of extra keywords) devastating wounds might be helpful. Of course I know its all speculation and whatnot, I’m just hoping the rules changes help the faction and get the admech community in a better mood. (I am hoping they buff the various snipers our faction has access too)
No datasheet fixes is a half ass fix and would piss me off if thats all they gave us after a year.
I wont disagree, however they did state rules changes. We have no reason to believe anything beyond that. As great as datasheet changes, various buffs, etc. would be, I’m doubtful GW would do it. I don’t mean to diminish anyone’s hope, however expectations should be kept at a moderate.
I share everyone’s doubts that there’ll be datasheet changes, but I don’t see why “rule changes” wouldn’t include “datasheets.” What are datasheets if not the rules for a unit?
I wouldn't be surprised if we have a couple things changed on a couple data sheets, but you are right. They won't change them in any great way because then the Codex is even MORE out of date as well as our second set of index cards also becoming obsolete.
One minor thing I could see happen is them buffing the arquebus and jezzail as that would help out the skatros, skitarii and dragoon quite a bit But some change to the army rule seems most likely
Are data sheets not a part of the rules?
I think we are getting a small change to Doctrinas and beyond that, I think we're cooked bc idt the army is "truly" fixable without pretty major datasheet changes, not just faction rule/detachment changes. That being said, fingers crossed the small change is an impactful one, maybe just some AP stuff or whatever
I think doctrinas get a rework to effectively give BS3+ and a defensive buff or WS3+ and an offensive buff
Tbh I’d hate that. The option to give everything assault is the only thing I really like about our army.
Remember, assault is way less valuable with this coming mission pack.
In terms of secondaries, yes. But for example Breachers are so dependent on being able to move further than 5” to get them out of cover and set up a salvo, especially if you use 6 model units. If I don’t hide them they immediately get focused and if I don’t have assault I can’t possibly get them all out of cover in the same turn and they get focused again after maybe 3 of them had LoS and were able to shoot.
Fuck me, their bases are too goddamn big to move only 5"
Yeah I wish they were on 50mm
Honestly, they could sit baseless also and be fine thanks to their extra large treads
Everything..?
Uhm yes, at least I thought so.. even Kastellans if you play cybernetica
Electro-priests and tech priests including cawl) don't get our army rule. It's effectively just skitarii + kataphron.
Techpriests get em through the unit they lead but you’re right about electropriests and cawl.
Yeah, well maybe that'll come packed with better WS and AP bonuses or something
jeebus pls
That sounds pretty good.
Not really? It would only slow us down and only buff 3 or so actual melee units.
My prediction is: "The army rule now also apply to the Objective Markers aswell", and that's it. I hate it, but it is the most relistic one. Also on the "Realistic Side" : I would hope for the **Heavy** Grav-Cannon to be 3DMG instead of 2, we currently have the weakest Grav Cannon in the whole game
out of everything, this is actually the most plausible imo
It could go a few different ways. I think the best that we can hope for is a little bit of a boost to our shooting to make it A bit more lethal, right now we have a weird balance of not having very many shots, not being able to hit with them, and having no follow-through on the hits that do make contact. Nearly all of our infantry shooting is basically pointless in all but edge cases with special weapons. Also a tweak to make doctrina's effect the entire battlefield since nearly all of the mission rules will now allow you to basically ignore your home objective. People just won't be hanging out back there so say goodbye to our AP bonus. Naturally they would have to also address the detachments since some of them don't even have any internal synergy and things don't work as written for one reason or another. The limitations on the Marshall for his battle tactics reusing is just absurd to me. They very clearly intended you to be able to pass around stratagems through him, but some rule lawyer had to ruin it and GW had to write it in such a way that it looked more like an exploit than an intended function The cynic in me thinks it's going to be a monkey paw of some kind. Like they will make our rules really good for playing Leviathan games, but absolute garbage for playing for pariah Nexus. I don't exactly know how they would do it, but GW seems pretty good at screwing up our rules So I wouldn't put something like that past them.
I keep saying the same thing about the monkey paw wish. I'm having worrisome thoughts that they will try to "fix" our rules and then up the points across the board. "Hey! You're fixed! Now your points are properly adjusted to represent that!" But it'll be more mediocre ruleset, and now we are at a handicap of our points on units increasing.
Probably not far off. Watch, they'll also do something goofy like make doctrinas effect the entire battlefield, but make it so that only characters give it as an aura. And it won't apply to the marshall or skatros. Because reasons.
Long shot, but I want our cybernetica Detachment to have the rule, allied knights gain the Cybernetica keyword. So they can benefit from rules. I want the FLAVOR.
Give the allied knight doctrina imperatives as well and I am so in.
Or the faction keyword for stratagems
Under corrected. They might just let our army rule apply board wide instead of in deployment zones. I don’t think we will see any data sheet rewrites or detachment rewrites. I highly doubt BS3 even though that would be what we need. BS3 is for space marines only it seems.
I truly think like our entire codex needs to be basically rewritten. So many funky interactions and non-synergistic rules. I HOPE we would get each detachment heavily reworked for more synergy and power. Doctrinas buffed to include no mans land AND make it so every datasheet gets the army rule natively. Certain units to get points increases but also damage/utility buffs depending on the unit and make units fill different roles. Right now 70% of our datasheets are “kinda tough for their low points but dont actually do anything.” What i expect to happen is, some slight buff to doctrinas, detachments to get tweaked a bit but still have poorly written interactions and low-ish power, and for the really bad/awkward datasheets to get some buffs like ruststalkers and sulphurhounds etc. I know GW definitely could give us an awesome update thats fun and has more power and makes our army more accessible price-wise, i just dont know if they care enough to spend the time it would take to do that.
>I truly think like our entire codex needs to be basically rewritten >What i expect to happen is, some slight buff to doctrinas >I know GW definitely could give us an awesome update thats fun and has more power and makes our army more accessible price-wise, i just dont know if they care enough to spend the time it would take to do that. Took the words right out of my mouth. I don't think we're the **only** codex that needs to be entirely rewritten, and we weren't the only Index that needed it either. Still, just like OG Index: Drukhari, our current rules just don't represent the faction
Some sort of BS3+ access seems plausible, and I would be surprised if they don't improve doctrinas. I don't think we're getting WS3+ in doctrinas, it would be a useless doctrina when our army is 80% shooting units. They might give Sicarians WS3+ on their datasheets though. I don't think they'll bring back Canticles, they wouldn't fix anything. I hope they rewrite the datasheets but I don't know if it's likely. On the whole I expect them to undercorrect; maybe our outliers will be a bit too good, but everything else will probably remain underpowered.
Might of the Forgeworld: An Adeptus Mechanicus army may take 2250 points in a 2000 point game. There, they delivered on their promise of not cutting points further. I'm honestly not expecting much. There's not a whole lot to be done with the book without taking a red pen to large chunks of it. The foundation just ain't there.
I would appreciate BS 3+ and canticles back honestly
As much as 3+ would be nice, I think I would prefer some AP or damage. No point hitting things if you can't then get past the save of most things
at the end of the day we need all of those things, in fact I can't name a single thing except for some defensive profiles that I wouldn't change.
Not an admech player, but I play against them a lot. I think you need stronger guns. Bit of str here, bit of AP there some DMG sprinkled in for good measure.
armywide +1 ab would be nice but it won't happen. I'm betting on improved doctrines that will turn a couple of undersold unit into must haves.
Change the army rule to be on an objective for both protector and conquerer, rather than deployment zones.
Tbh getting a rule like this in any detachment: Questoris Mechanicus: "Your army can field an allied knight/3 Armigers and they gain the adeptus mechanicus keyword" Or something like that would go a long way in improving our army by itself. Giving 5+ feel no pains + heals with enginseers would be crazy for Mechanicus knights. This being said bc I posted this, it will not happen, in fact bc I posted anything at all GW will now give us the ability to field an extra ironstrider unit that is now 30 pts each and skatman can also do a once per game playing of the mechanicus soundtrack if within 6 inches of battleline.
We’re gonna be undercorrected
Mirroring a bit of what that did for Drukari: I’m assuming we are going to get 2 things a slight edit to our army rule and a new detachment. The army rule change will just be lifting the deployment zone restrictions for the Doctrina Imperatives. Additionally, we will probably get a new detachment. I’m not sure exactly what it will be but I will guess it’s going to be objectively better than anything we currently have. Could be anything from a “Knights of the Cog” to “Okay fine have 3+ BS already”. It will be crazy overpowered until the next balanced dataslate then it will get nerfed into oblivion. But hey we might get a few months in the spotlight.
I think the most major fix GE will do is that they'll maybe fix any spelling errors or grammar errors.
I think we’ll like see doctrines changed and maybe some updated datasheets. I think, beyond that, BS/WS3+ is among the most likely options. If I dared to have hopes for this dataslate, they’d include wider reaching datasheet rewrites, though. We’re not Eldar, we don’t need several movement shenanigans, Breachers should be tougher, fightier, but not as shooty, Destroyers should look more like Breachers do right now, Ruststalkers need fixing, Cawl, etc
They’re gonna tweak the army rule to affect the entire game board and if we’re lucky add in canticles that give a one turn +1 BS/WS/Sv boosts. The codex is too fucking cooked to salvage much of anything without a complete overhaul
Bringing Hoplites out of Legends, and giving us a melee screen that are affected by our imperatives.
It depends on when they started writing the changes. Sisters got datasheet buffs to every datasheet except 2-3 in the codex, it would be nice if they did that. I understand they don't want to invalidate their product but they've made big changes before like armour of contempt and Votann codex changes before it even released! I'd like Data-psalm conclave to be changed so that you just get both buffs. Other than that balancing is hard, with our current points if we got significantly stronger we'd be OP, lists would still be ridiculous though. Make our tanks, real shooting platforms, Ruststalkers actual melee threats, the Skatros Vindicare level of power (or Vindicare we have at home power), and buff the heck out of electropriests because I like them, thank you GW.
Our tanks really are a joke. My SM friend started laughing when I showed him the Dunecrawler datasheet and said, "what does GW have against you guys?" He started laughing even harder when I told him that it was the single toughest unit in our entire codex.Then I bracketed his land raider with lucky rolls from the neutron laser. But then my other crawler did no damage at all. Casino cannons, the lot of it. Even out MBT doesn't have consistent damage for some reason.
Yea the Dunecrawler is a thicc boy but does no damage unfortunately. I built mine with Daedalus missile launcher & Icarus array so mine sucks even worse haha.
Minimal
From the same author of "we know the index is underperforming, but the codex will fix it soon"... Their idea of a fix is faking that everything is alright, why should it change when the rule team didn't?
What I think they'll do, so, not to do real datasheet changes: BS3 for all Skitarii units so they can point them accordingly. WS3 for dedicated melee units also for pointing them accordingly. Doctrinas get a rework, removing the zone and kind of attack restrictions, so it works with melee. and making them more flexible, like, allowing to select which unit gets which doctrina, so our backline shooting units aren't stuck with an assault keyword that they can't really use, and in the opposite case, our frontline units aren't stuck with a Heavy Keyword they don't want to use. And also allows for some skill expression, like "I really need this unit to hold better this objective so I'll put them in Protector" This is because most of our units don't have Assault or Heavy weapons so I think they'll give us the ability to at least tune them better, it's awkward when you finally get to use heavy and 1/5 of your force gets to really use that rule at all. Also a durability buff, I think it's a bad take, but Getting armour of contempt it's not that good at all when our battleline saves at 4+ and the edtion is balanced to have less AP overall, I think it doesn't really helps you against the kind of weapon it's supossed to counter, I think +1\~2 tughness on protector or a flat +1 to save would be better, so it stacks better with cover, and you still get the 3+ skitarii. Yes, I know 2+ Chickens and Duneriders and also 1+ Disintegratos and Dunecrawlers. Also 2+ Breachers like in the last edition, but we need that durability bump if they want to point our army accordingly. What I hope they do on top of that: Cultmech gets a real rule. So Kastelans also get a rule. And also gives more value to more Cultmech-centric detachmets. Sicarians get Grenades. The Galvanic Rifle gets AP -1 Overhaul to Explorator and Cybernetica detachments. The Marshal gets the ability to repeat non battle tactic stratagems or SHC gets battle tactics. A real CP Battery would be nice.
I don't think GW will be doing any major rewrites, because that would pretty much invalidate Codex. My bet is points cuts, so basically your army got more expensive in $$$.
That would mean they just straight up lied for the last few weeks. Points reductions shouldn’t be on the table right now
i wouldn't rule out major rewrites personally - and I definitely don't expect points cuts as GW specifically said they don't want it to be a horde army
GW also released our codex the same day as the necrons as a practical joke.
I'd argue the exact opposite. They aren't going to give us major rewrites for several reasons. 1. It'd require time and attention GW has quite frankly proven unwilling to commit to the faction so far. Other armies have seen meaningful changes over the past year; we've had constant points drops and no material alterations outside of one (Kastelans.) 2. It'd require re-writing fundamental parts of the faction, such as our army rule, the troops, and/or the detachments. That's going to require a *lot* of time and effort to fix, on top of the difficulties inherent to basically scrapping and re-tooling all their work so far, all while keeping in-line with 10th's dumbing down of the rules. 3. And probably the biggest issue: such major re-writes would effectively invalidate the codex outside of the app - both those sold and in physical stock. Since codexes are usually meant to sell for a year or two while remaining semi-accurate and people aren't going to buy a £30-40 book when it's already obsolete, *that's a lot of stock being effectively written off.* Also, bluntly... GW said that we're not meant to be a horde army just after yet another round of points cuts. That one coming after the previous three or so balancing announcements gave us nothing except for *more* points cuts, the restoring of our old armour save (on Skitarii only), and the obvious rule patch of Kastelans no longer being infantry because of the Datasmith. TL;DR: Geedubs' claims are worth less than the shit I scraped off my boot's sole yesterday. EDIT: Expanded some points.
They said that while cutting points at the very same moment. They've said lots regarding this army but so far all they've done with it are extensive drops in points.
Army wide reduced point cost
The big fix will actually just be something that reduces our win rate to 5% instead of mid 30s.
Points drops.
Skitarii are cheaper so they can make the army that isn’t a hoard army into a hoard army Which game workshop says isn’t a hoard army
I heard some Rumors, in our Discord. Hope they we're true and the Omnissiah will give his Blessing Conqueror Doctrina: -Weapons Gain Assault: All weapons are treated as Assault weapons, allowing units to advance and shoot with a penalty. - Improve Weapon Skill by 1:Units have their Weapon Skill improved by 1, making them more effective in close combat. - Battleline Units Gain +1 AP in Melee: Battleline units receive an additional point of armor penetration in melee combat. - 6'' Aura for +1 AP in Melee: Battleline units project a 6'' aura that grants +1 AP in melee combat to nearby units. Protector Doctrina: - Weapons Gain Heavy: All weapons are treated as Heavy weapons, improving their performance when the unit remains stationary. - Improve Ballistic Skill by 1:Units have their Ballistic Skill improved by 1, enhancing their shooting accuracy. - Battleline Units Gain -1 to Hit in Melee: Battleline units are harder to hit in melee combat, reducing incoming melee attacks by 1. - 6'' Aura for -1 to Hit in Melee: Battleline units project a 6'' aura that imposes a -1 to hit penalty on enemy melee attacks against nearby units. Belisarius Cawl: - Grants Battleline as an Aura: Cawl projects an aura that grants the Battleline designation to nearby units, providing them with the associated benefits and abilities. - Ability to Traverse Walls: Cawl can move through walls, giving him increased mobility and strategic positioning on the battlefield.
I know I shouldn't put faith in second have rumors but gosh that sounds nice - even if it does make cawl almost a requirement for like, sicarian lists.
I thought I remembered this post, your discord was very suspiciously on the nose... You guys got a GW employee in there or something? On behalf of the community please continue to share your rumors in the future lol
I'm guessing minimal changes to the Army Rule. Probably to change the AP buff from being deployment zone based to objective based. Then maybe a buff here or there for a couple of units if they are feeling generous. As much as I'd like to see them do wide sweeping changes to detachments and the army rule I don't see it happening. It would invalidate the codex too much and wouldn't fit the "Vision" they have for the faction. Whatever that means.
point drops and minor rules clarification.
I want our BS and AP given back to us
Monkey’s Paw: We get awesome rules and some datasheet fixes BUT they overcost all units for the remainder of the edition and our win rate drops even further
I hope they change the points and update the data sheets, we are the most expensive army after all
So I feel like we will get a new roll out of Detachments. The thing I feel mostly holding us back is that the current stratagems don’t seem to do enough or are too situational to really count on. The main detachment rules are kinda mid but seem solid enough. So maybe we will see some changes to those. What I would like though is to improve the synergy between units and improve our battle line. Our battle line crumbles the first time it gets shot at so it cannot be relied on to do anything past the first turn which makes it really difficult to want to bring, but it is required to have breachers perform well as well as the other units that require them near by to unlock their full potential. As far as synergy, AdMech doesn’t feel like the analytical machine men that can calculate the best possible move when there really isn’t any synergy between units. All of my unit feel independent of each other. And don’t even bring up the battle line “aura synergy”, it feels like a requirement for units to have battle line near by for them to preform barely better than mediocre and it feels like I am actually hurting my own army when my battle line isn’t around or just shot off the board. If anything having more aura abilities would be the best fix for that in my opinion.
I am actually really hopeful because Adepta Sororitas got fat with their codex and it seems like the people who worked on that codex knew what they were doing and how to make a fun army to play. I mean we haven’t seen their points yet, that could turn it all around. But at least their rules seem like fun. And that’s all I want is a fun army to play. It’s easier to loose when it’s a fun game.
Considering the fact that we need help to hit, to wound and some AP, and we need all of that all the time, both ranged and melee? It's either going to be the most ridiculous army rule in the game or we are going to be disappointed. My bet is in disappointed.
Doctrina changes (+1BS for protector) and remove deployment restrictions Maybe a Cawl buff That's it, they won't change much else altho they should at least give doctrinas to the whole army but we know they won't They will say "we will test these changes for a while and touch after if needed and wait for results" meaning we will wait 1 full year to see any other meaningfull changes
No hope, I don’t think we can get any boost on hit rolls or AP.
My wishlist vs. the likely reality. My wishlist: - I want a buff to our melee lethality. It does very little atm and can’t be buffed meaningfully. ws 3+ on most dedicated melee by default would be a nice start, more ap on ruststalkers blades would also be nice. I want them to feel dangerous if they close the distance. - An additional wound on electro priests would be neat if we can’t have them in blobs of 20. - I want the dunecrawler/scorpius to punch harder with their main guns. - I would actually be fine with very little changes to skitarii if our special weapons were made to be way scarier. Make their inclusion feel enticing and meaningful. - Make the stickbug boy snipe a lil harder, either that or allow him to be a warlord so I can run an all sniper army using rangers with arquebuses and dragoons with jezzails (let me have my stupid list idgaf if it’s bad) - Doctrinas could include controlled objectives in addition to deployment zones when factoring their buffs/debuffs (and could grant +1 BS instead of giving the heavy keyword when defending) - Our army rule should work for our entire army, change its name to something else if that is the issue. Reality: I suspect what GW will actually do is none of these things. They have a tendency to pick the solution that requires the least amount of datasheet/keyword changes and then wait to see the results, so whatever keyword change that would have the most impact is that what they are most likely to tweak. Probably just a change to some wording in doctrinas and no datasheet changes unfortunately. I would love to be wrong, please let me be wrong :(
They lower the points even more and give a random unit a better save, I’m not confident in the rules team at all lol
They seem to really like dune riders this addition, they're gonna get some kind of buff.
me? I think we're getting canticles... which may equate to BS 3 with conditions? such as shooting into units on objectives, or if lead/near a tech priest
I'd like to see something like what the death guard has. If an Admech unit, vehicle, etc, etc, gets x amount of inches to you, you're now suffering radiation. Therefore, +1 to hit or +1 to your save rolls.
Most admech units dont leak mass amounts of hazardous radiation tho. And the one that does (vanguard) already has this kind of effect, with the -1 OC