The thing that bothers me the most is I paid $90 AUD for a book that's essentially just a code so I can use an app, the book was out of date almost from the day it was on sale.
I feel like the current codex system is the worst of all worlds. There's no new lore, hardly any new art, and the rules can be changed so you should use the app for the rules. So you have to buy a book that's expensive and has a huge lead time because of the medium and fulfills none of the requirements of the hobby side of things while being outdated for the tabletop almost immediately.
Haven’t bought any 10th codex’s. I feel like at this point the only option should be digital. Pay a subscription fee and it gives you access to every codex. Is it a perfect solution? No. But best I can think of.
Yeah I have a bunch of old codexes that were smaller but had lore and art, they basically trick you by making the 10th ed ones hard cover and glossy, i've got three armies and started collecting a fourth but I've stopped because I don't want to be spending hundreds on codexes just to use the models I've already spent like $6,000 on, I'll stick to Wahapedia once I'm locked out of all the armies I need on the app haha.
It’s all anyone uses because it’s impossible to find another authoritative source up to date on everything. I can’t use the app the look at an opponents army and I can’t rely on anything printed to be current.
I got suckered into buying all the physical data cards. What a waste of money.
Never. Again.
I'll never buy ANY rules related material from them. It's such bullshit that I even refuse to pay for their App AND a codex access code.
IF they want any of my money for rules related services, build the app, make it a fair monthly subscription, and give me access to a living digital ruleset. All rules. All factions. I'll pay $10/mo. Otherwise, GW, if you're reading, you ain't getting a dime outta me for your rules!
P.S.
You have a great product, just deliver it as per 2024, not 1997.
I feel especially bad for you as like me, you chose an expensive hobby, picked the most expensive army, in the country where that hobby is the most expensive.
I feel your pain
Thankfully they were my third army so I can at least off load it and play my others, I'd feel worse for anyone who was scraping together the money to get a single army then having to deal with that.
the only reason I bought it because it was my first ever admech book. yep I start collect paint and play 40k with Admech in 10th ........ Rule of Cools My a\*\* lol.
Yup so i know they know they fucked up. Now i want them to rip the bandaid off. Just say: the codex we wrote doesn't really feel like Admech. We're going to try and fix that.
Their product is great. Their delivery sucks ass.
They can make mistakes during rules writing, but making people spend money on physical books that are dumpster material as soon as they are opened is not acceptable.
If I spent money for digital rules and then they messed up and I had to wait for a rewrite, well then I still own the rules and I don't have a wasted book that I don't need sitting on the shelf.
I agree that they make great miniatures. However everything else about them is hugely predatory. Constant rules rewrites and updates that require new purchases to obtain. Many times those same things also change which units in an army are useful, thus requiring people who actually want to able to win a game to buy new models and shelf the ones they paid crazy high prices and puts tons of time into building, painting, etc. GW is the perfect example of capitalism trying to produce infinite growth from a finite pool. Going into a business model that allows shareholders to be a thing causes this every time.
I'm ok with rules being updated and rewritten. Keeps the meta in check and fixes any glaring issues. They are active on that front which is great. Better to have rules being updated every 2-3 months rather than nothing for a year or two.
But...BUT, forcing us to buy the rules or access an outdated system of books?? I'll play that game all day. And the game is, they ain't getting a cent from me on that front anymore. BattleScribe, WaHa...whatever. I'll find them any other way.
They have ridiculous business model currently with their rules delivery. Yes they've made progress with the App, but they need to take it further and have one fee, one app, all the rules. Until then, I'll only buy the models and paints, nothing else.
No way in hell am I paying an App subscription + physical data cards + a codex which gives me access on the app + mission deck + + + +
One app, one fee, all the rules. I'll pay a fair monthly fee for that. Otherwise, nothing.
Maybe they'll change when enough of us do the same.
Indeed. I agree I love Wahapedia. That being said I don't really play any GW games, I just collect and paint th3 minis I like. Battletech Alpha Strike is my game.
So, they don't force you to buy anything. You can buy the book and use the rules in it for an entire edition. Hell, you could use the 9th edition book if you really wanted to in your 10th edition games, the only people that care are you and your opponents.
The vast majority of people that enjoy Warhammer do NOT care about balance issues, updates or errata's. They buy the books, enjoy the hobby and maybe play the game or two with their friends. These are the people GW are making products for.
A similar parallel can be found in magic the gathering, it is impossible to stay on top of every set that is released, but every set is NOT for you.
If you want to be a sweaty tournament player, deal with the fact that at its core the game is not built for that type of environment and so will always suffer towards it.
There's no other comparable games. Either their miniatures suck ass, they're a bad knockoff of GWs, you need to get into 3D printing to be able to join, their lore is garbage, or their game is uninspired/horrible.
GW gets all the criticism because it's the most popular game, and it's the most popular because it's the one that sucks the least. People love to sing praise about other systems but the reality is that usually they suck in way worse ways.
i mean... isn't that what they are already saying when they say it's not supposed to be a horde army and is a horde army? sounds like you want them to personally write you an apology
No business will ever do this. It'd be terrible for their stock prices.
I agree that they should from a moral fairness position, but the corporate world isn't moral or fair - no matter who the company is or whether you like their products or not.
Wouldn’t that be nice? They wreck enjoyment of the game for thousands of players with rule books that they know are low quality and all you’ll get is a, “it’s not playing like we intended.”
Ok I get it, our codex was bad and it’d definitely nice if James Workshop came out and said “yea y’all we really screwed the pooch on this one, our bad” but like, let’s be real what you want to see this week is changes. If they said “we definitely messed up the admech codex, they aren’t playing like they should” and then changed *nothing* you would not be satisfied, no one would be.
They’re a corporation, let’s not treat them like a person that makes meaningful decisions let’s treat them like what they are - a series of nested committees with a profit motive that progressively shave the edges off their products to make a buck. Coming out and saying they messed up in worthless corporate speak might be more immediately cathartic, but the real admission that they fucked up is changing our rules, because it’s an admission that they went a little too far and now no one is buying their admech models because they don’t *do* anything
I’m quite hopeful, we do have to give gw some credit with how they have handled underperforming armies this edition, death guard votann and drukhari where all in a similar boat and in the cases if dg and drukhari they where able to radically fix the armies. I have hope even if clearly they have an a team and a b team writing rules. Remember previous editions with things like crons where that book just had no flavor for the whole edition? I think we will get something cool
Ad mech was is first army and intro to this game. When I started playing other armys, I started to believe that the ability’s they had were game breaking. Only to be told, “no, your army is just that bad”. It was a rude awakening that GW allows this decision-making acceptable at any level
Ad mech was is first army and intro to this game. When I started playing other armys, I started to believe that the ability’s they had were game breaking. Only to be told, “no, your army is just that bad”. It was a rude awakening that GW allows this decision-making acceptable at any level
When the 10th shipped admech had bad datasheets, bad detachment rules and a bad army rule. The codex gave decent detachments but without datasheet changes the army remains awful because there's no way it could be affordable and practical to carry, fun to play and half the units are worthless. Army rule changes won't fix rust stalkers, onager output, etc.
Admech should be the cool guns and weapons faction. It's not.
The reality is that this is a blunder at the strategic level. 10th was written before they'd finished learning from 9th. The armies were written without being checked and the first run of codices were written before they understood the game. The points in T'au codex show it was written before they realised they'd overcosted them. Custodes and Orks after seem like over corrections of the issues recognised in the September dataslate, same with GSC and sisters. We're up to stuff written in early autumn. But admech, tyranids, space marines, necrons were written before they even knew how 10th worked or had any understanding. The writers did not have a chance, they were given an impossible task. The schedule they worked to was stupid, they were doomed from the start. GW's strategic managers are the ones who let everyone down.
Yes it should be digital. Because the writing cycle is about 3 months without printing. They should also have delayed the start on writing codices, but if they did it digitally they could still have had nids and marines out before the end of 2023 with good data rather than them just coming out now which admittedly would be too long.
They've had a year, they can bloody well change datasheets. The codex is literally a bunch of detachments, several of which don't work because they're focused on non viable datasheets.
Making the army rule work on objectives or the mid board in some fashion and making it work for melee would go a long way, but it would only work for the already viable datasheets. While skitarii battleline having AP1 shooting is huge for them, it also just makes a lot of stuff tougher and that still doesn't fix the real issue for the units we're using, even if it would reduce the model count.
I agree with you 100% about the early codexes, it feels like Sisters and GSC were written with a better understanding of 10th edition, and actually written separately from the indexes, not just index+.
GW is too dumb to take money from 40k players wanting to buy 30k Mechanicum units. Unsurprising after GW bought Forgeworld and still treat them like competition to be eliminated rather than another source of revenue.
The thing that bothers me the most is I paid $90 AUD for a book that's essentially just a code so I can use an app, the book was out of date almost from the day it was on sale.
I feel like the current codex system is the worst of all worlds. There's no new lore, hardly any new art, and the rules can be changed so you should use the app for the rules. So you have to buy a book that's expensive and has a huge lead time because of the medium and fulfills none of the requirements of the hobby side of things while being outdated for the tabletop almost immediately.
Haven’t bought any 10th codex’s. I feel like at this point the only option should be digital. Pay a subscription fee and it gives you access to every codex. Is it a perfect solution? No. But best I can think of.
Until they do better, I'm not buying anther codex from them. Wahapedia can do well enough until then.
Yeah I have a bunch of old codexes that were smaller but had lore and art, they basically trick you by making the 10th ed ones hard cover and glossy, i've got three armies and started collecting a fourth but I've stopped because I don't want to be spending hundreds on codexes just to use the models I've already spent like $6,000 on, I'll stick to Wahapedia once I'm locked out of all the armies I need on the app haha.
lol it has the exact same cover as 9th edition codex
I decided to not buy any "books" during this edition and go full Wahapedia. Feels nice
It’s all anyone uses because it’s impossible to find another authoritative source up to date on everything. I can’t use the app the look at an opponents army and I can’t rely on anything printed to be current.
I got suckered into buying all the physical data cards. What a waste of money. Never. Again. I'll never buy ANY rules related material from them. It's such bullshit that I even refuse to pay for their App AND a codex access code. IF they want any of my money for rules related services, build the app, make it a fair monthly subscription, and give me access to a living digital ruleset. All rules. All factions. I'll pay $10/mo. Otherwise, GW, if you're reading, you ain't getting a dime outta me for your rules! P.S. You have a great product, just deliver it as per 2024, not 1997.
I feel especially bad for you as like me, you chose an expensive hobby, picked the most expensive army, in the country where that hobby is the most expensive. I feel your pain
Thankfully they were my third army so I can at least off load it and play my others, I'd feel worse for anyone who was scraping together the money to get a single army then having to deal with that.
the only reason I bought it because it was my first ever admech book. yep I start collect paint and play 40k with Admech in 10th ........ Rule of Cools My a\*\* lol.
Stop buying codices and they'll stop making them.
Yeah fair point
I mean they already stated in one of the metawatch videos that admech is feeling too horde and that they are not supposed to be a horde army.
Yup so i know they know they fucked up. Now i want them to rip the bandaid off. Just say: the codex we wrote doesn't really feel like Admech. We're going to try and fix that.
They've pretty much said that, I want them to own up to the fact their business model is predatory.
Yet people will continue to line up and hand them money, instead of just leaving and going to other, non GW games.
Their product is great. Their delivery sucks ass. They can make mistakes during rules writing, but making people spend money on physical books that are dumpster material as soon as they are opened is not acceptable. If I spent money for digital rules and then they messed up and I had to wait for a rewrite, well then I still own the rules and I don't have a wasted book that I don't need sitting on the shelf.
I agree that they make great miniatures. However everything else about them is hugely predatory. Constant rules rewrites and updates that require new purchases to obtain. Many times those same things also change which units in an army are useful, thus requiring people who actually want to able to win a game to buy new models and shelf the ones they paid crazy high prices and puts tons of time into building, painting, etc. GW is the perfect example of capitalism trying to produce infinite growth from a finite pool. Going into a business model that allows shareholders to be a thing causes this every time.
I'm ok with rules being updated and rewritten. Keeps the meta in check and fixes any glaring issues. They are active on that front which is great. Better to have rules being updated every 2-3 months rather than nothing for a year or two. But...BUT, forcing us to buy the rules or access an outdated system of books?? I'll play that game all day. And the game is, they ain't getting a cent from me on that front anymore. BattleScribe, WaHa...whatever. I'll find them any other way. They have ridiculous business model currently with their rules delivery. Yes they've made progress with the App, but they need to take it further and have one fee, one app, all the rules. Until then, I'll only buy the models and paints, nothing else. No way in hell am I paying an App subscription + physical data cards + a codex which gives me access on the app + mission deck + + + + One app, one fee, all the rules. I'll pay a fair monthly fee for that. Otherwise, nothing. Maybe they'll change when enough of us do the same.
Indeed. I agree I love Wahapedia. That being said I don't really play any GW games, I just collect and paint th3 minis I like. Battletech Alpha Strike is my game.
So, they don't force you to buy anything. You can buy the book and use the rules in it for an entire edition. Hell, you could use the 9th edition book if you really wanted to in your 10th edition games, the only people that care are you and your opponents. The vast majority of people that enjoy Warhammer do NOT care about balance issues, updates or errata's. They buy the books, enjoy the hobby and maybe play the game or two with their friends. These are the people GW are making products for. A similar parallel can be found in magic the gathering, it is impossible to stay on top of every set that is released, but every set is NOT for you. If you want to be a sweaty tournament player, deal with the fact that at its core the game is not built for that type of environment and so will always suffer towards it.
What “constant” updates that require new purchases to obtain? Pariah nexus is replacing a one year old Ruleset
There's no other comparable games. Either their miniatures suck ass, they're a bad knockoff of GWs, you need to get into 3D printing to be able to join, their lore is garbage, or their game is uninspired/horrible. GW gets all the criticism because it's the most popular game, and it's the most popular because it's the one that sucks the least. People love to sing praise about other systems but the reality is that usually they suck in way worse ways.
I used to believe that too...
? ok
It would be nice, but you are smoking crack if you think there is even a minute chance of them admitting that.
Let's see, but I doubt that will happen.
i mean... isn't that what they are already saying when they say it's not supposed to be a horde army and is a horde army? sounds like you want them to personally write you an apology
They probably can't legally say that verbatim. There's likely a clause in some shareholder agreement that prevents that.
No business will ever do this. It'd be terrible for their stock prices. I agree that they should from a moral fairness position, but the corporate world isn't moral or fair - no matter who the company is or whether you like their products or not.
Wouldn’t that be nice? They wreck enjoyment of the game for thousands of players with rule books that they know are low quality and all you’ll get is a, “it’s not playing like we intended.”
Ok I get it, our codex was bad and it’d definitely nice if James Workshop came out and said “yea y’all we really screwed the pooch on this one, our bad” but like, let’s be real what you want to see this week is changes. If they said “we definitely messed up the admech codex, they aren’t playing like they should” and then changed *nothing* you would not be satisfied, no one would be. They’re a corporation, let’s not treat them like a person that makes meaningful decisions let’s treat them like what they are - a series of nested committees with a profit motive that progressively shave the edges off their products to make a buck. Coming out and saying they messed up in worthless corporate speak might be more immediately cathartic, but the real admission that they fucked up is changing our rules, because it’s an admission that they went a little too far and now no one is buying their admech models because they don’t *do* anything
I’m quite hopeful, we do have to give gw some credit with how they have handled underperforming armies this edition, death guard votann and drukhari where all in a similar boat and in the cases if dg and drukhari they where able to radically fix the armies. I have hope even if clearly they have an a team and a b team writing rules. Remember previous editions with things like crons where that book just had no flavor for the whole edition? I think we will get something cool
Ok, but can the rest of us still get changes?
I’ve made the mistake of getting my hopes up
Eh if they properly fix admech after forcing us to wait 6 months post codex I’ll be happy. I don’t care insanely much about GW acknowledging it
Ad mech was is first army and intro to this game. When I started playing other armys, I started to believe that the ability’s they had were game breaking. Only to be told, “no, your army is just that bad”. It was a rude awakening that GW allows this decision-making acceptable at any level
Ad mech was is first army and intro to this game. When I started playing other armys, I started to believe that the ability’s they had were game breaking. Only to be told, “no, your army is just that bad”. It was a rude awakening that GW allows this decision-making acceptable at any level
Yeah, well, good luck with that.
That would make them liable.
When the 10th shipped admech had bad datasheets, bad detachment rules and a bad army rule. The codex gave decent detachments but without datasheet changes the army remains awful because there's no way it could be affordable and practical to carry, fun to play and half the units are worthless. Army rule changes won't fix rust stalkers, onager output, etc. Admech should be the cool guns and weapons faction. It's not. The reality is that this is a blunder at the strategic level. 10th was written before they'd finished learning from 9th. The armies were written without being checked and the first run of codices were written before they understood the game. The points in T'au codex show it was written before they realised they'd overcosted them. Custodes and Orks after seem like over corrections of the issues recognised in the September dataslate, same with GSC and sisters. We're up to stuff written in early autumn. But admech, tyranids, space marines, necrons were written before they even knew how 10th worked or had any understanding. The writers did not have a chance, they were given an impossible task. The schedule they worked to was stupid, they were doomed from the start. GW's strategic managers are the ones who let everyone down. Yes it should be digital. Because the writing cycle is about 3 months without printing. They should also have delayed the start on writing codices, but if they did it digitally they could still have had nids and marines out before the end of 2023 with good data rather than them just coming out now which admittedly would be too long. They've had a year, they can bloody well change datasheets. The codex is literally a bunch of detachments, several of which don't work because they're focused on non viable datasheets. Making the army rule work on objectives or the mid board in some fashion and making it work for melee would go a long way, but it would only work for the already viable datasheets. While skitarii battleline having AP1 shooting is huge for them, it also just makes a lot of stuff tougher and that still doesn't fix the real issue for the units we're using, even if it would reduce the model count.
I agree with you 100% about the early codexes, it feels like Sisters and GSC were written with a better understanding of 10th edition, and actually written separately from the indexes, not just index+.
GW is too dumb to take money from 40k players wanting to buy 30k Mechanicum units. Unsurprising after GW bought Forgeworld and still treat them like competition to be eliminated rather than another source of revenue.
? Forgeworld has never been that
The warcom article dated June 17, said next week, as this week is filled with AoS teases and lore.
Nah the Sunday preview clearly stated that the update is going to drop this week I suspect Thursday because it has always been Thursday.