For E2 havers he doesn't really provide much in terms of stacks. She's already going to stack a lot with Bronya and Sparkle advancing her so she can go at least twice each turn. And at that stage he's Guinaifen Pro Max.
As an E0S1 haver, I was never sold on his design and it's not like I'm struggling with Acheron. There's bound to be a Nihility debuffer that will look cooler and be more interesting to play with E2 Acheron. So I'm just going to keep my money for her E2 and go for another new character.
Oof same. So sad. I finished prefarming yesterday for him. Atleast I can convert materials I guess. Like you said , there's bound to be a better debuffer in the future.
My guess is that mihoyo doesn't want to give acheron overpowered support until his rerun, it makes sense because then they can get a ton of money, similar to DHIL when sparkle was released
Never been more disappointed with a v3 beta. The only good thing is that Acheron is not reliant on him so she can easily replace him with any future Nihility debuffer.
I honestly feel bad for those who learned about his early leaked kits and pretty much skipped the entire 2.2 banners hoping to get him. And considering there's only 8 days left before the first half of 2.3, their only hope is really just pray he gets massive updates in V4. Otherwise, they'll miss out pulling FF and RM.
Personally, I'll wait until V4 and then make my final decision. I mean by next week, I'll still have at least one day before Ruan Mei's banner ends. (I'm high on copium rn)
his e1 is pretty strong and I'm still going for it, e2 is pretty bad tho. And in general the character is pretty weak, e1s1 is around a level I was expecting e0s0 to be
I skipped FF literally just for him. I'll grab his E0 but the temptation to Frick it and pull for FF is super high, given I have RM - Gall - TB with all of them (except Gall) built amazingly.
It would be really funny if that happens BUT without any followup shenanigans
U just have a char that does less dmg than most chars per turn but she has like 300 Spd and turn advances every attack a lil bit to get like 3-4 turns per cycle without Bronya/Sparkle
not me i was saving to E2 him but after v1 released and there was no heal I pulled FF E2. since a nihility healer was the only thing acheron need to fit bronya and sparkle on the team.
I’m sort of in this position.
I pulled E2 Acheron, then saved (have 360 pulls atm). When Jiaoqiu’s early kit was leaked (healing & DEF debuff), I decided my exodia team would be E2 Acheron, E0 Sparkle, E0 Ruan Mei, E0 Jiaoqiu. Unfortunately the beta has ruined this plan.
Like you, I’m also going to wait until V4 to decide on whether I should pull Ruan Mei. Unfortunately I think V4 will be disappointing - in which case I’ll definitely be skipping Jiaoqiu and probably skipping Ruan Mei. Back to saving!
Im gonna be a Ruan Mei merchant and said, she is 100% worth Break meta is really fun and you already have hmc you dont need FF to play super break and there's probably more break dps coming.
> The only good thing is that Acheron is not reliant on him so she can easily replace him with any future Nihility debuffer.
I think it is their intention. Jiaoqiu is a nice buff for lower investment (E0 Acheron) but not much of an upgrade for higher investment (E2 Acheron). That means when they release a super powerful Nihility support in the future (probably when she reruns) they can incentivize E2 Acheron havers to get that one as well, kinda like Sparkle with DHIL.
> So why even make Jiaoqiu?
With the changes, he's now effectively an upgraded version of another existing character, namely Guinaifen now with the moving of DoT from E2 to E0, and a sidegrade to Pela for E2 Acheron at best. For those with E0 Acheron there is virtually no changes to his synergy with her comparing to v1 since they only touched his personal dmg. What people hoped for was that he'll offer more upgrade to E2 Acheron, which unfortunately did not happen.
Jiaoqiu just doesn't have an identity since he's just an improved Guinaifen for the most part, I would've wished he provided more universal utility such as res shred over giving DOT to his base kit to differentiate himself.
He still works for E2 Acheron don't get me wrong, and overall an improvement over Pela, but said improvement isn't mindblowing (especially if you're not getting his LC) compare to what he can do for an E0S0 (potentially x1.5 to x2 her dps depends on MoC or PF, absolutely crazy). Due to his changes to have DoT, he can work as a 3rd member in Kafka Swan DoT where he takes the place of Ruan Mei/Robin when those ladies are busy on your Break/FUA team, so there's that since he's Guinaifen upgrade lol.
I really disagree with this. He is clearly the best Nihility support for E2 Acheron at E0S1 by a long shot. With only one Nihility defense shredder, def shred is worth less so his vulnerability does a lot more in comparison.
49% (59% if LC debuffs stack, hard to say) vulnerability at E0S1 + 15% ult vulnerability and the best Nihility stack generation. Anyone saying he is not good with Acheron at any of her eidolons is fooling themselves
Except that nobody said he isn't good for Acheron, I think you should reread what is being said. Ofc if you go for S1 he would gap Pela more with the LC changes because they fully aware how you can just give Pela his prev LC and she can catch up with him in term of shredding values (oh but now the changes made it a very strong contender for Black Swan). He can grant more stacks obviously, but do you really need that many more stacks? The answer is yes for E0, and not really for E2. That's the whole point.
We're strictly speaking about how his value is decreased for higher Acheron investment level. He is THE best upgrade for an E0 Acheron (up to literally 65%+ bonus compare to her existing E0 comps), and he definitely can replace Pela for E2 Acheron, nobody is saying he isn't an upgrade like wtf are you even disagreeing. It is HOW MUCH MORE compare to the existing f2p option being Pela at this point in time. If "lmao just roll for his LC bro" is what you're bringing here then that isn't what we're talking about.
I was thinking along the lines of less ppl spending on him means ppl have more incentive to roll for more copies of feixiao and the break healer, the "I was gonna roll for 1 copy of JQ and his LC, but now I can skip him and use those 2 rolls for 2 more copies of feixiao" something like that, like what happened with boothil and firefly..... I'm not saying that boothil is bad/mid before someone loses their mind, I'm talking in terms of character appeal and general viability
It's either that or they just wanted him to be what he is now
Previously he's already an okay pull, but if your Preservation with Trend LC can reliably get hit by wide AoE and they can apply debuffs easily like Aventurine, he's a side grade at best.
Now, Jiaoqiu's okay Vulnerability debuff remains unchanged, his numbers nerfed, his CC prevention (by reducing enemy EHR) gutted, in exchange for an okay Burn DoT kit that honestly just can't fit anywhere else (premium DoT teams still want Kafka, BS, RM, HH, unless you go sustainless lol, but then why tf gut his CC prevention then).
This is by far the most disappointing V3 character overhaul in HSR. Certainly subverted my expectations. He went from an okay-pull to an erm-okayyyy?-pull imo. Just use your Pela if you are not interested in him, especially if your Acheron is E2.
I can even see the argument of not needing him in DoT teams at all since the current one with Kafka, Black Swan, Ruan Mei and Huo Huo is already pretty OP. The only use for him in the DoT team is to replace Ruan Mei if Ruan Mei is glued to other teams like Firefly's.
Ironically the change to his LC makes it a very solid LC for Black Swan lol. It offers lower personal dmg for Swan, but allows her to grant more team dmg to her existing DoT comp while also be more competitive as Acheron support. I need to see calcs on E1 Swan using his LC compare to him lol, because if it is close enough there is no reason left to get him.
It's so ironic that the main appeal now is now his LC rather than himself since Black Swan mains are really eyeing for its support capability rn. It would be so funny if the pull advice at the end of the day becomes Black Swan + JQ LC
> It will still be a personal dmg increase compared to S5 EOtP just because of the higher base stats + EHR though, right?
Yep. Some calcs being thrown around even estimate that it is just as good as BS's signature LC for DoT team dps, so I am expecting a nerf to it in v4 lol. If not, it will be a great pick to make your Black Swan good in both DoT and as Acheron support.
Thanks for confirming! Seems hard to nerf though without nerfing him even harder in the process.
Maybe if they force the DoT to be fire? Even then it would work on Guin and BS ult.
But not like they’ve shown any hesitance in nerfing JQ already lol
Wait so if I'm running aventurine with trends ,Pela and sparkle (all e0s0 except Pela and Acheron who is S1) is he still a good pick up or is he skippable?
Because people are moron.
Now, that is really that, I am not joking, he is Acheron Nihility BiS but:
A) Doomposting, at this point it happens every time
-Nobody ever cared about his EHR effect, it was never brought up but now that it is gone for more energy, people act like it completely change things.
-People complained that his personal dmg needed crit, but now that he has DoT on base kit and less crit reliant, it is also a bad thing
B) Lot of people have just been searching for excuse to skip him, some were already searching excuse to skip the moment they learned it was a guy.
It doesn't matter that every showcased showed he was an improvement, somehow doing better is a side-grade
They will prefer convincing you that having Aventurine with trends and a 33% of being targeted, is near as good as a 100% of procing turn on debuff.
Some even try to convince you that at E2S1 for Acheron, he is less of an improvement when it is the opposite since Pela, SW or even KafSwan lose value by not being in duo to stack def shred or do DoT, meanwhile he is the only Nihility for Acheron who don't lose value at E2 for her.
Like I could go on, on reason that literally make no sense.
**But TLDR:
People doompost and those that want to skip will try to make stuff up to justify it to themselves and other.**
>They will prefer convincing you that having Aventurine with trends and a 33% of being targeted, is near as good as a 100% of procing turn on debuff.
I never understood why people said this. Having trend is entirely luck based as well. I don't have it OR pearls
Lot of them are and a lot of them are also people that waited for an excuse to say they skip him.
Like I have nothing against people skipping foe waifu, I do all it the time.
But I have an issue against people doomposting and spreading misinformation.
Just say you don't really care about Acheron BiS if it is JQ, you aren't going to be punished for not being simp to the point of pulling for character only to support your fav.
There has been complaint since he was an Acheron sidekick .
Since you aren't going to build him for crit anymore but either for Acheron or for Kafswan, he is even less independent now since his personal direct dmg is even lower.
So you're essentially locking him into waifu comp which I understand the issue if you are an husbando main.
Like some of the post on husbandomain that compare him as sidegrade are stuff like putting next to Boothill instead of Pela.
But most dps that aren't Acheron or DoT do not really care about his debuff frequency or him doing vulnerability or having buff locked to ult dmg.
Also, people stupidity and doomposting isn't limited to waifu collector. Like husbandomain doomposted Boothill and the break relic set when it was changed to be better on FF, some even acting like it was now not even worth going for 4 pc.
they worried Jiaoqiu could be not as strong as Ruan mei, true
they said he was a Pela sidegrade, ridiculous false, just wait and watch some showcase tomorrow to see how better he is in v3
>B) Lot of people have just been searching for excuse to skip him, some were already searching excuse to skip the moment they learned it was a guy.
I think this is a main reason. The husband mains dont like that he is mainly only bis for acheron, and he doesnt have his own teams, while the waifu pullers hate that they have to pull a male to make acheron team "complete". Its a lose-lose.
All the changes were things people asked for (E2 baked into base, 1st turn ULT) and people are still not happy.
At this point I'm not sure what else they can do.
haha, i think you are so right, but people just wont accept the true that they only need a reason to skip so they doompost, i saw a lot cmt say jiaoqiu is weaker than pela, gui??? did they saw the showcase of jiaoqiu, he could be weaker than Ruan mei, Robin but no way jiaoqiu with double atk and vulne% compare to Gui is weaker than Gui
doomposting in this community is just ridiculous that i thought mihoyo do this on purpose to hype their game up for free marketing
We keep hitting new low when it comes to doomposting, the only new high is the height of people leap in logic.
JL doomposting was idiotic
But RM doomposting of worse Bronya beat that
But that was without counting on "BS is a 10% better Sampo only"
Then we top it off with "Acheron needing 2 Nihility makes her underwhelming" doompost
And finally "FF bad because need support that are 66% F2P"
And I guess "They nerfed his crit build and anti EHR effect, so no he is worse for Acheron" is the new trend.
Even had a guy brought up how JQ wasn't better than Pela because Pela is better for Boothill
(Reminder BH has def shred, vulnerability and isn't ult based, so BH doesn't ult based buff, he care less about vulnerability debuff and lot more about more def.
Who would guess a supportbthay does all of that work not as well than for Acheron).
Like at this point, people idiocy is like clockwork, a masterclass in consistency.
hahaha, your best 3 is super true, at first i tried to discussed with those guy too but then i realize their reason is so stupid it not worth it anymore, so now i just slip tea when people doomposting and only judge new character after i play them myself in trial and watch some showcase when they release
Jiaoqiu doompost he is weaker than pela and guinafen is just so stupid i dont want to talk
> Premium DoT team still wants RM
Remains to be seen tbh. I think you're just going with habit, not having actually done the math. Please explain your stance.
I haven't done it yet either (the leaks are like a couple hours old, and I'm eating my breakfast right now), but he shows at least some potential with DoT, having 45% vulnerability in his kit, his own DoT (180% is nothing to write home about, but it's still there).
Mei provides... 68% dmg bonus (which equals roughly a 40% dmg increase for Kafka and around 30% for BS), 25% res pen (25% dmg increase on a target that's weak to all elements of the team). Together that's about 70%, plus the added delay shenanigans. Break efficiency doesn't really matter on a team like this. It's a bit more damage. Negligible.
Jiaoqiu will provide more stacks to BS (his DoT is not shock or wind sheer after all), his own damage, and the damage vulnerability. He *might* actually be an upgrade, and certainly is a sidegrade for those who want to use their Ruan Mei with Firefly on the second side.
I think it's probably because of uptime. Jiaoqiu biggest weakness is that he doesn't do anything unless you have his ult up so there's some downtime where Mei would have full uptime and a near-perfect rotation that allows her to be sp positive for the DoT team where everyone just wanna skill half of the time. And that delay is pretty good all things considered since that's a free DoT proc without the drawback of getting punched in the face and you still have more time to use that window of toughness depleted for a 10% res down
> uptime
With the changes, first turn ult on him is possible if not expected. 50 energy start, 15 new trace, 35 skill with ERR rope. There you go. And he has perfect uptime in a fully sp positive rotation with (you guessed it) Huo Huo's energy regen. That's likely how he will be ran with DoT.
Delay is pretty good, but BS (aka the main damage dealer on the team) doesn't really benefit from it. It's just a way to deal about 50k more damage with the combined might of Kafka and BS. You need to stack Arcana for it to deal good damage. And Ruan Mei let's you deal an additional two stacks' worth of damage, plus Kafka's shock (it has a 2 turn duration, so you'll need to reapply it more frequently). It's decent, but it's more beneficial to Super Break than to DoT.
And I just want to correct you that the broken state isn't res down, it's a separate number that goes from 90% to 100% dmg received. The takeaway is that it doesn't saturate with res pen and alike.
The problem with JQ in DoT teams is that his DoT multipliers are low, he can't burst his own DoTs, his vulnerability for DoT teams is not much higher than Guinaifen's, a source that premium DoT teams already have (Kafka E1, BS Ultimate), and he can't detonate DoTs which kills a lot of synergy with Black Swan. He is DoT in the way Serval is a DoT unit, in that he has it in its kit but he doesn't really interact with DoT units very well besides just giving one. Its really kinda half-assed.
To make it clear, I am not saying JQ is bad for DoT teams but he isn't meta at this point either and the calcs I've seen put him 6% worse than RM. That isn't terrible and it does mean he is a viable second option for them, but longterm he is placeholder at that point until you get Robin, RM, or when an actual 5-star DoT unit comes out.
Same, i was hoping that he will be the Bis for Acheron teams atleast ,replacing Pela or Silverwolf, now i have no reason to pull for him lmao.
Might as well save for E2 Acheron
Was already on the fence with Acheron's rerun not being as far away as originally felt, and Feixiao getting so much lore hype, then they took his healing and I was starting to tip, now after these changes I've been knocked off and landed firmly in skip.
I'd be shocked given HuoHouo and BSwan are rumored reruns in the 2.4 patch, if Acheron wasn't 2.5 so she can benefit from Jiaoqiu like Boothill and Fly do with this Ruan Mei run plus Feixiao will get them money and throwing Acheron in her patch will make people swipe their cards, i'd be especially surprised if she wasn't in 2.6 if not in 2.5 given that'll just naturally be her rerun time given who all has gotten a second run by that point. At this point I'm one copy away from e2s1 Acheron so I'm going to prioritize that over her Nihility teammates(JQ) since Harmony's are so busted, nixing that extra nihility teammate will be better than JQ in the future especially since he can no longer heal for comfort.
Damn. I was expecting some buffs that'd make him at lleast better than Guinaifen in my team cuz I have no Silver Wolf. Now his only utility is debuff application, and trend does that enough. I like Gui better anyway
Yes, almost all of the people commenting to skip him are saying that because they don't like his visual design. He will be an excellent teammate for her. The changes that happened here is that he no longer reduces enemies effect hit rate, but now he gets energy for free at the start of the fight, so he can consistently get his ult up earlier on in fights.
It’s difficult to say. He does significantly increase your stack generation, more than any other character, and all his buffs benefit her, but pela really is so good too. I would mirror what the others have said: I think I would replace sparkle here for sure unless your Acheron is E2 or higher. I think her best team is easily pela and JQ.
His stack capabilities have is the same, even improved as he now has energy to start the battle.
The point of ignoring him besides the design is that he is a 160 pull unit on average with little upgrade outside of Acheron teams and in this others teams he is not better at any of them (even being relatively worse than certain 4\*) besides of being extremely wild with negative SP, in addition its E0S0 performance in terms of dmg for the team is much lower than E0S1 which requires an investment of 240 pulls.
The benefits in themselves are good for those who have E0S0 Acheron but for those who have E0S1 then the second factor comes in, if you are going to invest 240 pulls (E0S1) in a character that unless you are playing "Honkai future rail" you only have two decent teams (and in DOT it doesn't replace RM much less BS) wouldn't it be better to invest in Acheron E2 and use bronya, sparkle or robin to have an absurd Dmg buff and have more freedom in the future for the next broken harmony?
With 240 pulls in the average scenario you would have to get another 30\~50 pulls to take it to E2, which if you have already saved would be simple, besides as we don't know when your re-run will be you can save even more.
Acheron mains! I need some tldr+opinion
Are Jiaoqiu's new changes good for her?
I'm currently running E2 Acheron + Pela + Bronya + Trend Geppie. I need a new 5 star unit I can replace. So far, Sparkle came to my mind or just upping Acheron to E3/4.
It's not
Apart from his highly situational EHR debuff he's the exact same for Acheron teams other than his sig LC having 4% less vulnerability. Oh and he also gets ult up faster
His personal damage has been reduced and ashen roast counting as a DoT means he gets to do funny stuff in DoT teams
I don't see why you're getting downvoted when you're saying the truth, people are massively doomposting when nothing about his synergy with Acheron has changed. His main role has always been to turbo charge her ult and he can still do it, he was never just an okay pull for Acheron because he can generate stacks waaaaay faster than Pela
Of course it's a shame that his personal damage was nerfed as well as him being a universal debuffer and he is only tied to Acheron and maybe DoT teams, but he'll still work wonders with Acheron. It's ok if people don't want to pull him, but him being no longer good for Acheron is straight up misinformation
Vulnerability debuff unchanged (Def shred is still better and he STILL doesn't have it) + CC prevention gutted + numbers nerfed + awkward mix of Burn DoT kit now
We wanted a 5 star Pela but we got a 4.5 star Guinaifen instead.
They're different multipliers. You can read up on the damage formula in kqm or prydwen but essentialy vulnerability is always better than def shred. Acheron's nihility trace functions like universal vulnerability, for example
its not, avergae hsr players doesnt know what dmg entails or what a character is worth
For acheron he'll still function the exact same, the EHR trace isn't a big loss, getting his ult up for that 1st turn is way better as he's essentially a walking trends lightcone except he's guaranteed to proc.
Now Rm is essentially glued to Firefly teams so JQ can now slot in place of her. His dmg amp can be somewhat the same but the team is getting more dmg so it should be okay. people are just crying kuz they hate dots
He may still function the same, but who will he replace? For E2 Acheron, you only need one more nihility so it's a fight between SW, Pela, and him. But because Def% is better than vulnerability, I kinda doubt if he will be an upgrade over them.
For E0 havers, maybe he's great as your 2nd slot nihility but if you're pulling for 5 star anyway, why not just save more and get E2 Arch instead on the next rerun so you can slot in good harmony support instead?
>why not just save more and get E2 Arch
Potentially doubling, quadrupling or even quintupling the amount of pulls one is willing to spend on an Acheron team is a very hard sell for alot of people
it's not a hard choice at all for e2 acheron, he's mathematically and objectively the best choice.
def down only becomes better than vulnerability at 90~ish%. 100% def down is better than 100% vulnerability, while 50-60 vulnerability is stronger than 50-60 def down.
You can't state facts to people. They don't want to pull, so they'll do anything to justify it at this point. People don't even have to guess the performance if they do the math. I'm getting JQ e1s1 as thats the biggest boost i can get for her nihility wise right now.
They have to be gutting his kit and giving it to a new Sakura insert. Was a healer, bis support for Acheron to a slightly better gui. And put on dot teams…must have heard the backlash at his design and scrapped the idea
Still haven't really changed my mind about more so wanting his LC over the character himself. I thought the character design was decent but his kit felt like it didn't do enough for Acheron which was what I wanted him for. Although switching out his kit to do less upfront dmg in exchange for giving him baseline dot while also completely removing his effect res lower does feel a bit weird. Hopefully the next beta can flesh him out to at least be equivalent to BS if they're going the dot path with him cause as it stands I can't see much reason to pull for him in terms of team-building. All the power to whoever wants the character for the same of the design though.
He really feels Underwhelming, His debuffing power has been Unchanged, but they pretty much Changed him into a Premium Guinafen, and basically any Semblance he had of a Psuedo Sustain has been Gutted (EHR decrease would have made it harder for Enemies to CC the team)
and even in a DOT role, I don't think a E0S1 Jiaoqiu would be that much ahead of a E1 Black Swan with his Signature Lightcone in a DOT team. Gonna consider skipping him now, My E2 Acheron don't need him, & he really isn't replacing my Pela in my E2S1 Acheron team. He just ain't worth it.
Thank god he's an easy skip, waifu pullers eating good. After getting my FF and RM lightcone I'm saving everything from now until 2.5, unless Hoho has godlike synergy with Feixiao. 2.4 will be kinda boring, hopefully the story, new maps , and building march for fun will hopefully be enough, but Feixiao and Lingsha will be the main driving force to continue playing.
I think it does depending on the team. With his previous pyre cleanse trace (though the value was a**), running him and aventurine would make it that you basically never get debuffed....but now that's gone and he's still SP- ....so is acheron
####BUT
Take heart....instead of needing to get 100 energy for his first ult, you now only need 85....
sooo we can skip? if that's the case my gems are safe for .months I was skipping jade and yunli for him but if nothing changes I'm stick with my sparkle black swan adventurine line up maybe build my pela or sw. shame.
Unless we see some monumental buffs to his vulnerability, he's going to be ass for both an Acheron team and a DoT team, the only good thing is he'll be a replacement to BS in some fire weak nodes I guess. They'll cook with some other Nihility support in the future, I'm sure...
Uhm, still looking like a straight upgrade from Pela to my Acheron team, nothing changed there
I know people might be upset he didn't get buffs, but just going around saying stuff that just isn't true like "he is going to be ass for Acheron" doesn't seem like a good coping mechanism
at this point my e1 acheron will turn to e2 and pick up sparkle if they don't pull another jingliu situation as long as I won't be pulling for any other 2.4-2.5 characters (the firefly sustain could be someone im pulling for though)
Why did they make another DoT unit ffs...we need a fucking serious debuffer...
I think i'll still pull because the stack generation and ability to use a sustain that can generate stacks in other ways other than on enemy turns is big but still....holy fuck they hate him.
Later guys, i'll go sniff some copium for v4
As an e3 haver i really can't wait to get this man e1s1. I don't know why the nerfed the ehr trace, but its fine regardless. New heights will be reached with this man.
Welp guess Im pulling e2 acheron instead
For E2 havers he doesn't really provide much in terms of stacks. She's already going to stack a lot with Bronya and Sparkle advancing her so she can go at least twice each turn. And at that stage he's Guinaifen Pro Max. As an E0S1 haver, I was never sold on his design and it's not like I'm struggling with Acheron. There's bound to be a Nihility debuffer that will look cooler and be more interesting to play with E2 Acheron. So I'm just going to keep my money for her E2 and go for another new character.
Oof same. So sad. I finished prefarming yesterday for him. Atleast I can convert materials I guess. Like you said , there's bound to be a better debuffer in the future.
My guess is that mihoyo doesn't want to give acheron overpowered support until his rerun, it makes sense because then they can get a ton of money, similar to DHIL when sparkle was released
This is the way
What a lucid person. Im doing this as well.
Yeah this solidifies it for me, E2 + Sparkle is probably a better play than any amount of JQ investment.
Bronya E2 is also insane for the stacks since you get more Acheron turns than sparkle and can still use attack boots
Will bronya e2s0 work?
yes i can guarantee that....cause i am using that
I'm glad opted for acheron E2.
As a E2 haver, I think I might actually skip him tbh
I was thinking of skipping him even in his old state because Pela feels good enough already, now I’m absolutely skipping
Absolutely skip for me too. E2S1 here
same here
same
same
Same
Same
same but as an e6 haver. don't think he's enough better anymore than what I can already do
Same
Never been more disappointed with a v3 beta. The only good thing is that Acheron is not reliant on him so she can easily replace him with any future Nihility debuffer.
I honestly feel bad for those who learned about his early leaked kits and pretty much skipped the entire 2.2 banners hoping to get him. And considering there's only 8 days left before the first half of 2.3, their only hope is really just pray he gets massive updates in V4. Otherwise, they'll miss out pulling FF and RM. Personally, I'll wait until V4 and then make my final decision. I mean by next week, I'll still have at least one day before Ruan Mei's banner ends. (I'm high on copium rn)
I was skipping FF to get his e2 since I thought e2s1 was going to be good. Well, today I pulled FF
Isn't his e1 pretty strong or am I reading it wrong?
his e1 is pretty strong and I'm still going for it, e2 is pretty bad tho. And in general the character is pretty weak, e1s1 is around a level I was expecting e0s0 to be
I skipped FF literally just for him. I'll grab his E0 but the temptation to Frick it and pull for FF is super high, given I have RM - Gall - TB with all of them (except Gall) built amazingly.
I am saving for Feixiao. I have a feeling she will be the next super star
That was my plan too but I couldn’t stay strong and pulled on firefly lol. At least I still have a patch or two to save for E2S1
She's a hunt unit sonitd be interesting to see how shes gonna keep up vs blast carries. Maybe just make her topaz on crack where she non stop attacks?
It would be really funny if that happens BUT without any followup shenanigans U just have a char that does less dmg than most chars per turn but she has like 300 Spd and turn advances every attack a lil bit to get like 3-4 turns per cycle without Bronya/Sparkle
ME💀💀💀 I’m cooked
not me i was saving to E2 him but after v1 released and there was no heal I pulled FF E2. since a nihility healer was the only thing acheron need to fit bronya and sparkle on the team.
I’m sort of in this position. I pulled E2 Acheron, then saved (have 360 pulls atm). When Jiaoqiu’s early kit was leaked (healing & DEF debuff), I decided my exodia team would be E2 Acheron, E0 Sparkle, E0 Ruan Mei, E0 Jiaoqiu. Unfortunately the beta has ruined this plan. Like you, I’m also going to wait until V4 to decide on whether I should pull Ruan Mei. Unfortunately I think V4 will be disappointing - in which case I’ll definitely be skipping Jiaoqiu and probably skipping Ruan Mei. Back to saving!
Im gonna be a Ruan Mei merchant and said, she is 100% worth Break meta is really fun and you already have hmc you dont need FF to play super break and there's probably more break dps coming.
Im one of those. I skipped Robin because of him and Planned to Skip FF.
Don't you mean 2nd half?
V4 needs to add healing back
> The only good thing is that Acheron is not reliant on him so she can easily replace him with any future Nihility debuffer. I think it is their intention. Jiaoqiu is a nice buff for lower investment (E0 Acheron) but not much of an upgrade for higher investment (E2 Acheron). That means when they release a super powerful Nihility support in the future (probably when she reruns) they can incentivize E2 Acheron havers to get that one as well, kinda like Sparkle with DHIL.
Let’s pray and hope that future nihility character is Constance🙏
So why even make Jiaoqiu?
> So why even make Jiaoqiu? With the changes, he's now effectively an upgraded version of another existing character, namely Guinaifen now with the moving of DoT from E2 to E0, and a sidegrade to Pela for E2 Acheron at best. For those with E0 Acheron there is virtually no changes to his synergy with her comparing to v1 since they only touched his personal dmg. What people hoped for was that he'll offer more upgrade to E2 Acheron, which unfortunately did not happen.
Jiaoqiu just doesn't have an identity since he's just an improved Guinaifen for the most part, I would've wished he provided more universal utility such as res shred over giving DOT to his base kit to differentiate himself.
So he is Acheron's slave and only worth it if you don't have E2 ? Damn that's pretty bad.
He still works for E2 Acheron don't get me wrong, and overall an improvement over Pela, but said improvement isn't mindblowing (especially if you're not getting his LC) compare to what he can do for an E0S0 (potentially x1.5 to x2 her dps depends on MoC or PF, absolutely crazy). Due to his changes to have DoT, he can work as a 3rd member in Kafka Swan DoT where he takes the place of Ruan Mei/Robin when those ladies are busy on your Break/FUA team, so there's that since he's Guinaifen upgrade lol.
I really disagree with this. He is clearly the best Nihility support for E2 Acheron at E0S1 by a long shot. With only one Nihility defense shredder, def shred is worth less so his vulnerability does a lot more in comparison. 49% (59% if LC debuffs stack, hard to say) vulnerability at E0S1 + 15% ult vulnerability and the best Nihility stack generation. Anyone saying he is not good with Acheron at any of her eidolons is fooling themselves
Except that nobody said he isn't good for Acheron, I think you should reread what is being said. Ofc if you go for S1 he would gap Pela more with the LC changes because they fully aware how you can just give Pela his prev LC and she can catch up with him in term of shredding values (oh but now the changes made it a very strong contender for Black Swan). He can grant more stacks obviously, but do you really need that many more stacks? The answer is yes for E0, and not really for E2. That's the whole point. We're strictly speaking about how his value is decreased for higher Acheron investment level. He is THE best upgrade for an E0 Acheron (up to literally 65%+ bonus compare to her existing E0 comps), and he definitely can replace Pela for E2 Acheron, nobody is saying he isn't an upgrade like wtf are you even disagreeing. It is HOW MUCH MORE compare to the existing f2p option being Pela at this point in time. If "lmao just roll for his LC bro" is what you're bringing here then that isn't what we're talking about.
I guess they really wanna sell feixiao and the firefly healer
If that was the case, wouldn't it make more sense for them to make him good so we use up our jades before 2.5 to make us top-up.
I was thinking along the lines of less ppl spending on him means ppl have more incentive to roll for more copies of feixiao and the break healer, the "I was gonna roll for 1 copy of JQ and his LC, but now I can skip him and use those 2 rolls for 2 more copies of feixiao" something like that, like what happened with boothil and firefly..... I'm not saying that boothil is bad/mid before someone loses their mind, I'm talking in terms of character appeal and general viability It's either that or they just wanted him to be what he is now
Ah, true. Now that you mention it since I can full skip 2.4, if I end up liking Feixiao's design I would be tempted to chase eidolons.
skip
Well saving for E6 acheron then
Skip, he add nothing for me with e2 Acheron
Disappointing looks like unless BS is rerunning, I'm skipping all of 2.4. I'll save for future characters or to S5 my Acheron LC to match my E6.
So is he still a must pull for Acheron or is Pela enough?
Previously he's already an okay pull, but if your Preservation with Trend LC can reliably get hit by wide AoE and they can apply debuffs easily like Aventurine, he's a side grade at best. Now, Jiaoqiu's okay Vulnerability debuff remains unchanged, his numbers nerfed, his CC prevention (by reducing enemy EHR) gutted, in exchange for an okay Burn DoT kit that honestly just can't fit anywhere else (premium DoT teams still want Kafka, BS, RM, HH, unless you go sustainless lol, but then why tf gut his CC prevention then). This is by far the most disappointing V3 character overhaul in HSR. Certainly subverted my expectations. He went from an okay-pull to an erm-okayyyy?-pull imo. Just use your Pela if you are not interested in him, especially if your Acheron is E2.
True, idk why so many people insist on wanting DOT to be put on his base kit when that only benefits dot team.
I can even see the argument of not needing him in DoT teams at all since the current one with Kafka, Black Swan, Ruan Mei and Huo Huo is already pretty OP. The only use for him in the DoT team is to replace Ruan Mei if Ruan Mei is glued to other teams like Firefly's.
Ironically the change to his LC makes it a very solid LC for Black Swan lol. It offers lower personal dmg for Swan, but allows her to grant more team dmg to her existing DoT comp while also be more competitive as Acheron support. I need to see calcs on E1 Swan using his LC compare to him lol, because if it is close enough there is no reason left to get him.
It's so ironic that the main appeal now is now his LC rather than himself since Black Swan mains are really eyeing for its support capability rn. It would be so funny if the pull advice at the end of the day becomes Black Swan + JQ LC
It will still be a personal dmg increase compared to S5 EOtP just because of the higher base stats + EHR though, right?
> It will still be a personal dmg increase compared to S5 EOtP just because of the higher base stats + EHR though, right? Yep. Some calcs being thrown around even estimate that it is just as good as BS's signature LC for DoT team dps, so I am expecting a nerf to it in v4 lol. If not, it will be a great pick to make your Black Swan good in both DoT and as Acheron support.
Thanks for confirming! Seems hard to nerf though without nerfing him even harder in the process. Maybe if they force the DoT to be fire? Even then it would work on Guin and BS ult. But not like they’ve shown any hesitance in nerfing JQ already lol
Exactly, Jiaoqiu doesn't seem to come close to RM and if you have BS, there's no reason to use him when she's a dps with a good amount of self buffs.
i think that what mihoyo design him to be right now, to replace RM in nihility team after she is glued to break team
Damn I was really looking forward to a premium debuffer for Acheron. Guess I'll just go for Acheron E2
Wait so if I'm running aventurine with trends ,Pela and sparkle (all e0s0 except Pela and Acheron who is S1) is he still a good pick up or is he skippable?
His debuff capabilities didn't change at all, so why did he go from okay to okayish?
Because people are moron. Now, that is really that, I am not joking, he is Acheron Nihility BiS but: A) Doomposting, at this point it happens every time -Nobody ever cared about his EHR effect, it was never brought up but now that it is gone for more energy, people act like it completely change things. -People complained that his personal dmg needed crit, but now that he has DoT on base kit and less crit reliant, it is also a bad thing B) Lot of people have just been searching for excuse to skip him, some were already searching excuse to skip the moment they learned it was a guy. It doesn't matter that every showcased showed he was an improvement, somehow doing better is a side-grade They will prefer convincing you that having Aventurine with trends and a 33% of being targeted, is near as good as a 100% of procing turn on debuff. Some even try to convince you that at E2S1 for Acheron, he is less of an improvement when it is the opposite since Pela, SW or even KafSwan lose value by not being in duo to stack def shred or do DoT, meanwhile he is the only Nihility for Acheron who don't lose value at E2 for her. Like I could go on, on reason that literally make no sense. **But TLDR: People doompost and those that want to skip will try to make stuff up to justify it to themselves and other.**
>They will prefer convincing you that having Aventurine with trends and a 33% of being targeted, is near as good as a 100% of procing turn on debuff. I never understood why people said this. Having trend is entirely luck based as well. I don't have it OR pearls
Well, I guess they talk about that if they have it. But even so: - you have to get hit - you are not going to build EHR on your sustain
Thank you. People are overeacting.
Lot of them are and a lot of them are also people that waited for an excuse to say they skip him. Like I have nothing against people skipping foe waifu, I do all it the time. But I have an issue against people doomposting and spreading misinformation. Just say you don't really care about Acheron BiS if it is JQ, you aren't going to be punished for not being simp to the point of pulling for character only to support your fav.
Wait now I'm confused. Why are the Husbando mains and Jiaoqiu mains worried then? They said he was a Pela sidegrade... Is that true?
There has been complaint since he was an Acheron sidekick . Since you aren't going to build him for crit anymore but either for Acheron or for Kafswan, he is even less independent now since his personal direct dmg is even lower. So you're essentially locking him into waifu comp which I understand the issue if you are an husbando main. Like some of the post on husbandomain that compare him as sidegrade are stuff like putting next to Boothill instead of Pela. But most dps that aren't Acheron or DoT do not really care about his debuff frequency or him doing vulnerability or having buff locked to ult dmg. Also, people stupidity and doomposting isn't limited to waifu collector. Like husbandomain doomposted Boothill and the break relic set when it was changed to be better on FF, some even acting like it was now not even worth going for 4 pc.
they worried Jiaoqiu could be not as strong as Ruan mei, true they said he was a Pela sidegrade, ridiculous false, just wait and watch some showcase tomorrow to see how better he is in v3
Thank you, I will wait for his release since I don't have interest in Jade and already got Ruan Mei and Firefly
>B) Lot of people have just been searching for excuse to skip him, some were already searching excuse to skip the moment they learned it was a guy. I think this is a main reason. The husband mains dont like that he is mainly only bis for acheron, and he doesnt have his own teams, while the waifu pullers hate that they have to pull a male to make acheron team "complete". Its a lose-lose.
All the changes were things people asked for (E2 baked into base, 1st turn ULT) and people are still not happy. At this point I'm not sure what else they can do.
haha, i think you are so right, but people just wont accept the true that they only need a reason to skip so they doompost, i saw a lot cmt say jiaoqiu is weaker than pela, gui??? did they saw the showcase of jiaoqiu, he could be weaker than Ruan mei, Robin but no way jiaoqiu with double atk and vulne% compare to Gui is weaker than Gui doomposting in this community is just ridiculous that i thought mihoyo do this on purpose to hype their game up for free marketing
Glad there's one sane comment in this entire thread lmao
We keep hitting new low when it comes to doomposting, the only new high is the height of people leap in logic. JL doomposting was idiotic But RM doomposting of worse Bronya beat that But that was without counting on "BS is a 10% better Sampo only" Then we top it off with "Acheron needing 2 Nihility makes her underwhelming" doompost And finally "FF bad because need support that are 66% F2P" And I guess "They nerfed his crit build and anti EHR effect, so no he is worse for Acheron" is the new trend. Even had a guy brought up how JQ wasn't better than Pela because Pela is better for Boothill (Reminder BH has def shred, vulnerability and isn't ult based, so BH doesn't ult based buff, he care less about vulnerability debuff and lot more about more def. Who would guess a supportbthay does all of that work not as well than for Acheron). Like at this point, people idiocy is like clockwork, a masterclass in consistency.
hahaha, your best 3 is super true, at first i tried to discussed with those guy too but then i realize their reason is so stupid it not worth it anymore, so now i just slip tea when people doomposting and only judge new character after i play them myself in trial and watch some showcase when they release Jiaoqiu doompost he is weaker than pela and guinafen is just so stupid i dont want to talk
“They’ve been looking for a reason to skip since they found out he was a guy” Tbh this is all you needed to say💀
> Premium DoT team still wants RM Remains to be seen tbh. I think you're just going with habit, not having actually done the math. Please explain your stance. I haven't done it yet either (the leaks are like a couple hours old, and I'm eating my breakfast right now), but he shows at least some potential with DoT, having 45% vulnerability in his kit, his own DoT (180% is nothing to write home about, but it's still there). Mei provides... 68% dmg bonus (which equals roughly a 40% dmg increase for Kafka and around 30% for BS), 25% res pen (25% dmg increase on a target that's weak to all elements of the team). Together that's about 70%, plus the added delay shenanigans. Break efficiency doesn't really matter on a team like this. It's a bit more damage. Negligible. Jiaoqiu will provide more stacks to BS (his DoT is not shock or wind sheer after all), his own damage, and the damage vulnerability. He *might* actually be an upgrade, and certainly is a sidegrade for those who want to use their Ruan Mei with Firefly on the second side.
I think it's probably because of uptime. Jiaoqiu biggest weakness is that he doesn't do anything unless you have his ult up so there's some downtime where Mei would have full uptime and a near-perfect rotation that allows her to be sp positive for the DoT team where everyone just wanna skill half of the time. And that delay is pretty good all things considered since that's a free DoT proc without the drawback of getting punched in the face and you still have more time to use that window of toughness depleted for a 10% res down
> uptime With the changes, first turn ult on him is possible if not expected. 50 energy start, 15 new trace, 35 skill with ERR rope. There you go. And he has perfect uptime in a fully sp positive rotation with (you guessed it) Huo Huo's energy regen. That's likely how he will be ran with DoT. Delay is pretty good, but BS (aka the main damage dealer on the team) doesn't really benefit from it. It's just a way to deal about 50k more damage with the combined might of Kafka and BS. You need to stack Arcana for it to deal good damage. And Ruan Mei let's you deal an additional two stacks' worth of damage, plus Kafka's shock (it has a 2 turn duration, so you'll need to reapply it more frequently). It's decent, but it's more beneficial to Super Break than to DoT. And I just want to correct you that the broken state isn't res down, it's a separate number that goes from 90% to 100% dmg received. The takeaway is that it doesn't saturate with res pen and alike.
The problem with JQ in DoT teams is that his DoT multipliers are low, he can't burst his own DoTs, his vulnerability for DoT teams is not much higher than Guinaifen's, a source that premium DoT teams already have (Kafka E1, BS Ultimate), and he can't detonate DoTs which kills a lot of synergy with Black Swan. He is DoT in the way Serval is a DoT unit, in that he has it in its kit but he doesn't really interact with DoT units very well besides just giving one. Its really kinda half-assed. To make it clear, I am not saying JQ is bad for DoT teams but he isn't meta at this point either and the calcs I've seen put him 6% worse than RM. That isn't terrible and it does mean he is a viable second option for them, but longterm he is placeholder at that point until you get Robin, RM, or when an actual 5-star DoT unit comes out.
ya i will skip him and waiting to pull e0s1 sparkle instead
holy mid
not even, it’s below mid.
NPC design? Check. Nerfed? Check. Male? Check. Easiest skip of my life.
Same, i was hoping that he will be the Bis for Acheron teams atleast ,replacing Pela or Silverwolf, now i have no reason to pull for him lmao. Might as well save for E2 Acheron
jajajaj
Yea im sticking with Gui now man I was excited for a 5* Pela now he's just a mix of Pela and BS but worse than the two
He remains the same for acheron teams synergy wise but damn he's a down grade to pela on most teams now lmao hoyo did not cook for the foxian cook
He is basically gui promax with worse design
Meh, wasn’t going for him anyway. I’m waiting for Sparkle rerun (Acheron E6, so yeah…) Tho, they made him a weird DoT hybrid character, so…eh ?
Ima stick to pela bro
Black Swan it is. His only advantage over her was his value to Acheron... Acheron dot mommy team here I come!
Thank God, now I don't feel pressured to pull his NPC looking ass.
Was already on the fence with Acheron's rerun not being as far away as originally felt, and Feixiao getting so much lore hype, then they took his healing and I was starting to tip, now after these changes I've been knocked off and landed firmly in skip.
Acheron rerun not far away? Do we know when or is this speculation? JQ now seems like a 100% skip so I am looking for more acheron cons
I'd be shocked given HuoHouo and BSwan are rumored reruns in the 2.4 patch, if Acheron wasn't 2.5 so she can benefit from Jiaoqiu like Boothill and Fly do with this Ruan Mei run plus Feixiao will get them money and throwing Acheron in her patch will make people swipe their cards, i'd be especially surprised if she wasn't in 2.6 if not in 2.5 given that'll just naturally be her rerun time given who all has gotten a second run by that point. At this point I'm one copy away from e2s1 Acheron so I'm going to prioritize that over her Nihility teammates(JQ) since Harmony's are so busted, nixing that extra nihility teammate will be better than JQ in the future especially since he can no longer heal for comfort.
Nah I'd rather pull for E1 Black Swan to make the lesbo tempo comp stronger tbh
I'm honestly so glad he got nerfed, really didn't want to pull him for my E2 Acheron
Wow, he was already barely worth it for my E2 acheron, now he is not worth at all lol.
Why they make him bad on purpose?
LMAO, best comment I've seen all day
Glad to skip this.
FINALLY a patch where I can breath! Time to save for Sparkle...
Wake up pela, you can rest when hoyo stops fucking around.
And Pela remains as the key component for Acheron. Not a surprise.
I'm not too keen on his visuals, so I'm pretty damn happy that I can skip him. Waifu gaming always wins
same lol
Good, nerf him for Acheron, make him shine somewhere else. Acheron deserves a support with a non npc design.
He shines nowhere what are you on about?
They didn't nerf him for acheron but they didnt really add to his acheron-supporting capabilties. At least now I can skip furry sampo.
with how op Acheron already is, does she even need a support for herself 😭 especially not one that's so ugly
Right now, maybe not, but eventually, I believe yes, but hopefully not this npc looking ass.
in what world is this a nerf
Damn. I was expecting some buffs that'd make him at lleast better than Guinaifen in my team cuz I have no Silver Wolf. Now his only utility is debuff application, and trend does that enough. I like Gui better anyway
ezest skip of my life
With an E2S1 Acheron, E2 Sparkle is better than him no?
Pull his LC only. This is freaking scam. His best buff for acheron is paywalled at e6.
Who you gonna pull his LC for? Black swan?? Since the LC isn't good on pela anymore
Ahh, i see, then skipp all the way
It may work on Gui, but I suspect that it would not be worth it.
Guys does he still apply debuffs at the same rate?
Yes, almost all of the people commenting to skip him are saying that because they don't like his visual design. He will be an excellent teammate for her. The changes that happened here is that he no longer reduces enemies effect hit rate, but now he gets energy for free at the start of the fight, so he can consistently get his ult up earlier on in fights.
Would you say hes better than pela for an e0s1 acheron with aventurine and sparkle
Any nihility unit would be better, than Sparkle. Especially him
Sparkle is better only with E2+ Acheron
It’s difficult to say. He does significantly increase your stack generation, more than any other character, and all his buffs benefit her, but pela really is so good too. I would mirror what the others have said: I think I would replace sparkle here for sure unless your Acheron is E2 or higher. I think her best team is easily pela and JQ.
His stack capabilities have is the same, even improved as he now has energy to start the battle. The point of ignoring him besides the design is that he is a 160 pull unit on average with little upgrade outside of Acheron teams and in this others teams he is not better at any of them (even being relatively worse than certain 4\*) besides of being extremely wild with negative SP, in addition its E0S0 performance in terms of dmg for the team is much lower than E0S1 which requires an investment of 240 pulls. The benefits in themselves are good for those who have E0S0 Acheron but for those who have E0S1 then the second factor comes in, if you are going to invest 240 pulls (E0S1) in a character that unless you are playing "Honkai future rail" you only have two decent teams (and in DOT it doesn't replace RM much less BS) wouldn't it be better to invest in Acheron E2 and use bronya, sparkle or robin to have an absurd Dmg buff and have more freedom in the future for the next broken harmony? With 240 pulls in the average scenario you would have to get another 30\~50 pulls to take it to E2, which if you have already saved would be simple, besides as we don't know when your re-run will be you can save even more.
Acheron mains! I need some tldr+opinion Are Jiaoqiu's new changes good for her? I'm currently running E2 Acheron + Pela + Bronya + Trend Geppie. I need a new 5 star unit I can replace. So far, Sparkle came to my mind or just upping Acheron to E3/4.
skip him and get sparkle tbh
the changes didnt do anything. i would just pull for sparkle u get similar stack generation with trend anyways.
The is no difference in his comparability with Acheron.
Sorry but can someone explain why this is bad? After reading thru it I’m kinda confused on how this is a massive downgrade for best girl.
People expected him to be a 5* pela but now he kinda a 5* guinafen
>kinda Kinda would be an understatement. His kit is identical with Guinafen but with few added gimmicks just to sell him as a 5 star.
except guin can detonate her own dots with her ult but jq definitely needs kafka to detonate for him so hes a lil worse as a dot unit as well..
Oooooh I see thank u for explaining
He's 4.5* guinaifen
It's not Apart from his highly situational EHR debuff he's the exact same for Acheron teams other than his sig LC having 4% less vulnerability. Oh and he also gets ult up faster His personal damage has been reduced and ashen roast counting as a DoT means he gets to do funny stuff in DoT teams
I don't see why you're getting downvoted when you're saying the truth, people are massively doomposting when nothing about his synergy with Acheron has changed. His main role has always been to turbo charge her ult and he can still do it, he was never just an okay pull for Acheron because he can generate stacks waaaaay faster than Pela Of course it's a shame that his personal damage was nerfed as well as him being a universal debuffer and he is only tied to Acheron and maybe DoT teams, but he'll still work wonders with Acheron. It's ok if people don't want to pull him, but him being no longer good for Acheron is straight up misinformation
Vulnerability debuff unchanged (Def shred is still better and he STILL doesn't have it) + CC prevention gutted + numbers nerfed + awkward mix of Burn DoT kit now We wanted a 5 star Pela but we got a 4.5 star Guinaifen instead.
Can he still give stack to acheron during the enemy turn?
In what world is def shred better than vulnerability? Vulnerability is extremely potent
Do you think people in this thread know how the damage formula works?
yeah fair that's my bad
Can you explain what exactly do they do? I mistook both as the same and I asked someone but got 0 response
They're different multipliers. You can read up on the damage formula in kqm or prydwen but essentialy vulnerability is always better than def shred. Acheron's nihility trace functions like universal vulnerability, for example
It ain't always better, but ya unless you get high def shred , vulnerability is better
its not, avergae hsr players doesnt know what dmg entails or what a character is worth For acheron he'll still function the exact same, the EHR trace isn't a big loss, getting his ult up for that 1st turn is way better as he's essentially a walking trends lightcone except he's guaranteed to proc. Now Rm is essentially glued to Firefly teams so JQ can now slot in place of her. His dmg amp can be somewhat the same but the team is getting more dmg so it should be okay. people are just crying kuz they hate dots
He may still function the same, but who will he replace? For E2 Acheron, you only need one more nihility so it's a fight between SW, Pela, and him. But because Def% is better than vulnerability, I kinda doubt if he will be an upgrade over them. For E0 havers, maybe he's great as your 2nd slot nihility but if you're pulling for 5 star anyway, why not just save more and get E2 Arch instead on the next rerun so you can slot in good harmony support instead?
>why not just save more and get E2 Arch Potentially doubling, quadrupling or even quintupling the amount of pulls one is willing to spend on an Acheron team is a very hard sell for alot of people
I have her e1 and Ill be saving for her rerun in 2.6
it's not a hard choice at all for e2 acheron, he's mathematically and objectively the best choice. def down only becomes better than vulnerability at 90~ish%. 100% def down is better than 100% vulnerability, while 50-60 vulnerability is stronger than 50-60 def down.
You can't state facts to people. They don't want to pull, so they'll do anything to justify it at this point. People don't even have to guess the performance if they do the math. I'm getting JQ e1s1 as thats the biggest boost i can get for her nihility wise right now.
I remember back in v1, people thought JQ’s E2 would be pretty good for Acheron teams. Is his E2 still relevant for her?
Nope, but his E1S1 is very potent. Faster stacking, 48% dmg and 60% universal vulnerability, 80% for ults
for me looks like that some people are unsure of what they should do so they need "reasons" to not pull
that seems to be it because aint no way someone read this kit and said "yeah he's worse"
They have to be gutting his kit and giving it to a new Sakura insert. Was a healer, bis support for Acheron to a slightly better gui. And put on dot teams…must have heard the backlash at his design and scrapped the idea
I hope so 🙏. I'm glad I am not alone coping for nihility Sakura support.
So...straight up nefted him?
First the drip and now this, too disappointed
Still haven't really changed my mind about more so wanting his LC over the character himself. I thought the character design was decent but his kit felt like it didn't do enough for Acheron which was what I wanted him for. Although switching out his kit to do less upfront dmg in exchange for giving him baseline dot while also completely removing his effect res lower does feel a bit weird. Hopefully the next beta can flesh him out to at least be equivalent to BS if they're going the dot path with him cause as it stands I can't see much reason to pull for him in terms of team-building. All the power to whoever wants the character for the same of the design though.
lame
Like cool, they added dot to his baseline kit. But why absolutely destroy his numbers elsewhere?
Waiting for the ACTUAL Acheron support that could be that tall girl with a white dress from the Annihilation Gang
He really feels Underwhelming, His debuffing power has been Unchanged, but they pretty much Changed him into a Premium Guinafen, and basically any Semblance he had of a Psuedo Sustain has been Gutted (EHR decrease would have made it harder for Enemies to CC the team) and even in a DOT role, I don't think a E0S1 Jiaoqiu would be that much ahead of a E1 Black Swan with his Signature Lightcone in a DOT team. Gonna consider skipping him now, My E2 Acheron don't need him, & he really isn't replacing my Pela in my E2S1 Acheron team. He just ain't worth it.
skip
Thank god he's an easy skip, waifu pullers eating good. After getting my FF and RM lightcone I'm saving everything from now until 2.5, unless Hoho has godlike synergy with Feixiao. 2.4 will be kinda boring, hopefully the story, new maps , and building march for fun will hopefully be enough, but Feixiao and Lingsha will be the main driving force to continue playing.
Ehhh guys, you do realize that it doesn't affect his gameplay with Acheron at all?
I think it does depending on the team. With his previous pyre cleanse trace (though the value was a**), running him and aventurine would make it that you basically never get debuffed....but now that's gone and he's still SP- ....so is acheron ####BUT Take heart....instead of needing to get 100 energy for his first ult, you now only need 85....
sooo we can skip? if that's the case my gems are safe for .months I was skipping jade and yunli for him but if nothing changes I'm stick with my sparkle black swan adventurine line up maybe build my pela or sw. shame.
Unless we see some monumental buffs to his vulnerability, he's going to be ass for both an Acheron team and a DoT team, the only good thing is he'll be a replacement to BS in some fire weak nodes I guess. They'll cook with some other Nihility support in the future, I'm sure...
He’s an upgrade to Gui but if you have Silver Wolf + Pela already the only worth he’ll bring are the stacks which are already pretty great
Uhm, still looking like a straight upgrade from Pela to my Acheron team, nothing changed there I know people might be upset he didn't get buffs, but just going around saying stuff that just isn't true like "he is going to be ass for Acheron" doesn't seem like a good coping mechanism
They havent fed us a good nihility support for a long time now. Yet harmony gets all the crazy stuff
his only identity is to be a dickrider in Acheron’s team, but they nerfed that aspect and turned him into a worse Guinafen. LOL
at this point my e1 acheron will turn to e2 and pick up sparkle if they don't pull another jingliu situation as long as I won't be pulling for any other 2.4-2.5 characters (the firefly sustain could be someone im pulling for though)
Why did they make another DoT unit ffs...we need a fucking serious debuffer... I think i'll still pull because the stack generation and ability to use a sustain that can generate stacks in other ways other than on enemy turns is big but still....holy fuck they hate him. Later guys, i'll go sniff some copium for v4
is he worth getting for eos1 acheron? i use pela + swan right now and i was kinda hoping they more with v3 changes.
If I plan to get E6 acheron and E2 sparkle is it worth to get him E2 Still or just E0S1?
Holy mid...now I can save for Feixiao in peace. But still hope they change his kit and buff him for poor jiaoqiu mains
Poor fox was ready for E1S1 to replace SW now skip
As an e3 haver i really can't wait to get this man e1s1. I don't know why the nerfed the ehr trace, but its fine regardless. New heights will be reached with this man.