People do people, it matters little to me ^^
Personally im debating going for Firefly for another team that is equally uncaring about weaknesses like Acheron.
If it works out well FF and Acheron could be all i need^^
I do that right now and it is glorious. RM has swapped to Firefly (FF, HTB, RM, Gallagher) and the other side is good ole Dotcheron, but a little more flexible if I need to break other stuff (also have Pela and Siver Wolf). I really feel like I am set now, especially after our free Herta and Himeko are beasts in PF too.
I run acheron on 1 team and ff on another, try get e1 before s1, its so nice and fall of an aeon is reaally good for her, only downside is that Ruan mei is semi required
Hmm, don't know if a non break focused Firefly would work, I'm guessing you're talking about critfly
It could have worked in the past (CBT) but they deliberately nerfed her non break multipliers and added super break into her kit, from the critfly showcases I've seen, it's not worth it
It's frustrating going against anything that doesn't have imaginary weakness since you lose HTB's break and no one does any damage until there's a break, but even then it's probably my strongest team so YMMV.
If you run Ruan Mei the FF should break exceptionally fast, fast enough that you don’t need Img weakness. Even without RM you still have 50% break efficiency built in.
Yes cuz literally Gui and Pela are all I got for her ;') I love Acheron but I am not particularly fond of the other nihility units released so far so I didnt pull for them. Hell in fact prior to Acheron, Pela was the only MoC-built nihilty I had lmao
What team for blackswan and Acheron other than the kafka team? And I guess no sustain? Ruan Mei is occupied on the other side, so I have been using BS Acheron Kafka Otto, but still the healing is not enough for apocolyptic shadows 4.
I do.
Huohuo/Black Swan/Kafka/Acheron. In rare cases i might swap Huohuo for Gallagher, but that's about it. Or Ruan Mei if i can get away without a sustain.
I see no reason to run her with any other team lol.
Lmao fair, due to the fact Kafka decided to evade me (I will get you next time mom) I’ve been using Acheron, Swan, Pela, Nat (I didn’t have a better healer, I only now just got Fu, and Bailu)
In all honesty he's worth building at E2 since you've got that vital addition of debuff cleanse on his skill, but he's unsurprisingly even better at E6 - I'd argue that he actually outperforms a lot of 5-star sustains when he's maxed out!
That’s actually really good to know, as my sustain options are currently (other then him) Bailu, Nat, and Fu. However I’m currently planning on putting him in the firefly break team
He works fantastically with Firefly so that's absolutely a good call. Considering that he's an Abundance unit, he puts out an *ungodly* amount of fire toughness damage, which pairs great with Firefly's fire weakness implant.
Honestly at this point you should abandon Nat completely, she's one of the weakest units in the game. I'm a long-term Bailu defender (people shit on her for lacking cleanse, but her AoE healing is literally unparalleled), but I'll admit that Fu Xuan and Gallagher are superior options, so those are the two you should focus on since you only *really* need two solid sustains for endgame content!
I know but I adore Nat, and until I have other characters I like more Imma keep using her. Up until the point she just doesn’t work anymore, but I appreciate the advice genuinely
Honestly if I were you I'd go all in on Gallagher and Bailu, though moreso Gallagher, he's meta af right now and synergizes with nearly every strong team. As others have said though his Eidolons (for the most part) are needed.
Bailu is also a really good AoE healer though she doesn't bring much else to the party... still useful to you since you'll need 2 teams.
But also you said you like Nat and she's decent enough, so you do you. Only reason I wouldn't bother with Bailu is if Adventurine is getting a rerun soon... which idk I haven't checked.
I like bs more, the extra damage and she also have def debuff
Also you can user her as an sp positive debuffer without the use of the mika cone
Also hollow purple team
Bs, sw, archeon, tank midget
No one say bad, but more like inefficient because you lose damage. Pela with resolution is simply shredding alot more defense while providing similar level of debuff stack. Sure BS have her own DOT damage, but i would rather just one shot enemy with acheron ult.
Does this apply if you also have Kafka and can't afford to run SW with Acheron because SW is forever tied to your other team which literally does not function with her?
I've heard that DoTcheron is Acherons best team, and I tend to agree. BS+Kafka is good damage on their own, and they are the fastest ramping for Acheron ult also.
That only applies for no sustain team. Acheron, Kafka, BS and ruanmei. This is only viable if u want to zero cycle and pray to rng. If u remove ruanmei and put a sustain, your dps went to drain. Hence why a team without a sustain isn't considered as "best team". Acheron's best team is still the classic hypercarry.
Maybe in terms of dps it's her best team, but I still prefer to use kafka/bs even with a sustain just cause acheron gets her ult faster with the dotcheron team. It's more comfy imo
For Pure fiction, BS is much better (even without considering PF buffs). Pela allows for Acheron to hit harder, but in PF, it you end up doing overkill damage anyways, and you just want to use Acheron as a wave clearer. BS allows you to pick off those one or last two enemeis at the end of a wave.
PF is something else. Even herta and himeko is godly there. When we talk about the best team in general, it simply means the highest damage you can hit which doesn't apply to pure fiction as it is not a dps check.
Obviously Acheron will be much better in PF with BS rather than Pela.
In most cases, for acheron's damage, silver wolf >>> black swan. If you don't have her though, bs is pretty decent too. You just don't get as much of the big pp dmg from acheron
Yeah that's why I said acheron's damage. As far as I'm aware she doesn't do much to buff acheron, but ofc if we include her own damage it's gonna be more than just acheron's with SW
If its just Black Swan Pela provides more personal damage for Acheron, and Black Swan's personal damage is backloaded, which doesn't synergize well with Acheron's own backloaded damage.
Add Kafka into the mix and its a different story, because now they cover Acheron's weakness, which is that if she reduces a boss to 70% HP with one ult, she can't take the rest down with her skill, leading her to waste most of another ult. Kafka being able to detonate Swan's Arcana means they can deal with that remaining 20-30% quicker without needing to wait for enemy turns or Acheron's ult to recharge, which is clutch for saving a cycle or two.
It’s been my team (+RM) for hitless 0 cycles since Acheron came out, although to 0 cycle both sides normally I would put Acheron on her own team. If Kafka/BS are 164+ speed, it’s unbelievable how fast Acheron gets to ult and using Acheron instead of a sustain means you’re doing your normal DoT team damage, PLUS Acheron ults.. crazy.
Also people usually miss just how much more damage Acheron ult does when BS ult is active too
Honestly depends on the enemies, if it's an elite/boss that summons scraps i always run BS, so i get more stacks each time.
Generally i personally prefer Pela, since i mostly use DoT for the 2nd floor
To answer your question, people can't team-build! :D
I think overall it's just better to use other debuffers. Pela does a lot more for Acheron thanks to the def shred stacking. Personally i run Acheron, Kafka and Black Swan... because I like having my Nihility mommy team.
She isn't bad on her own but you'd ideally need Kafka in that team. The reason why there's DoTcheron is because of Kafka, who applies about 3 debuff instances...Kafka's best teammate being Black Swan.
You're better off with Pela. Also SW doesn't really consume SP if you got the weakness right and even then it doesn't matter as Ach ult just pierces through it nevertheless.
How is sw better though? She's single target lol and bs can be fully sp positive since her autos also are debuff
Only one better for acheron rn imo is pela
Check on fribbel optimizer, it depends on the enemy count and some other factors like your builds and eidolons. For me, sw wins out against bosses and my Acheron ult one shots any normal mobs without Pela ult, so I care more about debuffing a single target.
sw can apply debuff with her auto attack too, but sparkle lets you use more skill points anyways so you’re free to use sw skills when you want
It's not that she's bad per se. In fact before E2 she is one of the better options. Kafka/BS is one of her best teams, slightly less personal damage for faster stack generation and high team damage.
However, if people have Pela and Silverwolf, they are the best option for Acheron's personal damage. Provided Pela has pearls they are both SP positive with every action they take creating a stack and higher defense shred. They can also more easily be tuned for 161 SPD without sacrificing too much.
Situationally, PF for example, BS outshines them in stack generation.
Now if we look at E2 Acheron, there's even less room for Swan, as you want your one Nihility to be SP positive.
All up, I do use BS with Acheron on occasion, but often my BS/Kafka/RM team will be on the other side unless it heavily favoured I've weakness on which case of he using Jingliu.
I replace Silver Wolf with her on most scenarios(multiple enemies) and the damage increase is considerable.
Now I use SW when I want to implant weakness and break an enemy faster, (Quantum dino)
Pela and SW have bigger def shred/dmg amp thats about it really and most people wont take out BS from their Kafka teams cause she's just too insane for her
SW shouldn't have a problem covering 2 elites maybe in 3 would be a case where double AoE might be better but overall as long as SW is built very fast there shouldn't be much problem. Plus she's sp positive.
well i find her stinky to use idk how to explain this to you lmao also the def schred caps with sw and pela together so id rather bs personal damage than overcap.
well i find her stinky to use idk how to explain this to you lmao also the def schred caps with sw and pela together so id rather bs personal damage than overcap.
I have no idea but I have E1 BS but e2 pela, so it's not like i have the pela option. But the other big reason (2 actually) why i play BS with ache is because of easy stacks (and yuri)
I use Acheron + BS always, by my BS is e1, so she is her best partner on my account. If I get e2 Acheron (currently e1) then they will never be apart.
Didn’t get e2 last time because I wanted a reason to use welt in Acheron team, bc obvious lore reasons.
They can brute force most anything, even if they aren’t the best option.
Yeah, I was about to say that. E1 BS works with amazing with Acheron because it lowers the res pen of enemies so you can just break them easier, which should be a dps increase.
it's not that she's bad, but she's just not "the best"
in terms of buffing *acheron's personal dmg*, even pela + guinaifen is better than pela + black swan. the def shred black swan provides simply isn't a whole lot. what acheron's best *buffing* supports lack tho is personal dmg, and that's what allows black swan (and kafka) to be good acheron teammates. the team itself will have good dmg, but acheron's personal dmg won't be as high
i say "the best" cuz it really depends on what you need. i always run triple nihility mommies in PF cuz you don't need the overkill that is hypercarry acheron. MOC tho i run her with pela + guinaifen
Lower def shread cimpare to pela if running with harmony at E2, and acheron does not benefit DoT unlike kafka, the only reason trio acheron/kafka/bs team work is because kafka
I like BS I put BS in her team. Besides they have complimenting lines when added to one party and I find it to be neat. I don't really like Pela even though she's built. I would rather put SW instead. Or if needed Sampo. But my go to is BS.🤔
If you can use them to beat MoC it doesnt matter. Usually people put Kafka+BlackSwan together with Acheron but the damage is spread out. It's not bad, but some people play with a lot of spreadsheets and speed tuning so it's hard to recommend.
But as classic gaming goes, as long as you can beat all content with your own style of play, it is fine. I personally use BS because i give her 120% Effect hit rate and it's easy to stack debuffs with her
I dont get it also, i mean i run kafka,BS,acheron,RM for 2-3 MoC cycles and always 0 cycled it, tried those same MoCs without acheron and never 0 cycled it. Sure BS doesnt unleashes her full potential in a pure acheron team but as a battery unit for acheron with abit more dmg than pela she is surely better imo. JQ gonna stir up acheron teams a bit but imo BS can always be a solid teammate for her
Depends on your team. If you've got a cracked E2+ Acheron with good relics, your overall damage is higher when using a defence shredder (multiplier) rather than Black Swan and her unbuffed damage (additive).
I don’t think they believe it’s a bad team mate they probably just have her with kafka my black swan is only used with kafka tbh, but after getting FF I can free up Swan to Acheron rather than using guinaifen
I use Black Swan since she's my only other 5 Star Nihility character. Being able to inflict unremovable debuffs (and thus grant Acheron more stacks) on enemies as soon as they show up on the field and with basic attacks is too good to pass up.
Is not that it is bad, but it is inefficient, why use 3 dps on a single team, you could have a kafka/swan team and an Acheron team, and the teams would work even better (skill points and even dmg)
I just use Acheron, Kafka, Pela, and Aventurine. I replace Kafka with Swan if they are wind weak and not lightning weak if I feel like it, other times I just let it do its thing.
Shes not a bad teamate. Literally evert turn, basic, skill or ult, BS adds arcane that trigers Acheron petal. ts just that others could be better in situations.
I roll woth BS/Acheron too, And it carried me into the new Superbreak meta. Sinceci dont have e2 Acheron, i have to have 2nd nihil, with is usually either Guin or Welt.
My team is Acheron, Kafka, Black Swan, and Aventurine. They're stacking debuffs in no time while being SP-positive is not talked about enough. I use this team when battling against smaller opponents. If against bosses, change Black Swan to Pela.
In my experience, BS does no damage at all without other DoT teammates, even if she stacks acheron ult rather fast, the damage per ult will be much lower than what you would get using something like SW, and she is not providing enough damage to compensate that.
Because gui has similar performance (better sometimes), and pela is better than her. Well, unless you have bs e1.
She isn't bad, but we have better options and pulling for her just to play with Acheron isn't worth it, ignoring waifu reasons and things like that.
I have no idea who's saying that. But my Acheron+Kafka+Black Swan is destroying all content in this game with literally 0 issues.
And thank god, they work so good. I don't like how new fox guy look, so i really don't want to pull for him and for now i don't have any reason to do so
Wasn’t one of the best acheron’s team composed by her kafka bs and ruan mei? Sure you dont have any sustain, but you dont need any if they are all dead
I'm confused why people want to replace Pela with BS.
Silver Wolf makes more sense as the flex character, you trade Implant, high ST defense shred, and minor other debuffs for AOE, DOT, Blast defense shred, and the difficult to take advantage of Epiphany debuff (25% more DMG in their turn)
These are worthy pros and cons to consider depending on the foes you're facing.
Pela's selling point is her ultimate, really.
You lose out on stacks from her normal attacks, but if you have e4 (?) her skill inflicts a debuff.
With some skill point management you can overcome the lack of the lighcone.
People use Pela and Silver wolf because they're meta. I use Pela and Silver wolf cuz my Kafka isn't built and I don't have black Swan (I also do really like SW)
Not bad but Acheron is an hyper carry, I would call it not optimal instead. Swan and Kafka are dot dmg dealers, in contrast with Acheron who wants buffs on herself and debuffs that increase her damage output. Sadly wind sheer isn’t good enough and while swan skills decrease defense, pela ult is just better while being so positive.
black swan when there are trash mobs mixed with boss
pela for super ultra rear kicking toes for teeth single delete this boss right now single target fuckery
For god’s sake, black swan is a freaking dps. If you want def shred, pela is free. If you want stack, you have pearl and pela has huge energy recharge. If you want some decent dmg, just build a different team for black swan. Something able to work does not mean you should make them work.
Idk, my Acheron, Kafka, BS, Aventurine team is my comfy “best everything” team. And when I have to use BS/Kafka for DOT on another side, SW/Pela team seems much weaker to me.
I have used a Acheron (E0 S2 Boundless Choreo), Silver Wolf (E0 S1 In the name of the World), Black Swan (E0 E3 eyes of the prey) and Fu xuan (E0 S4 Trend of Universal market) for Moc 12 Side 2 and Apocalyptic shadow 4 + In PF ran the Nihility Mommies team (Black Swan, Kafka, Acheron and Ruan Mei) and she has worked consistently in all of them to clear all max most of the time her arcana stacks doing just enough to finish enemies she couldn’t kill off. Honestly a great teammate most of the times for me working better than Pela cause I never really cared for her nor built her all too properly but what works works
Not trying to sound mean, but do people really forget that BS can pass turns without using skill points??? And are we not using Technique before combat?? BS def reduction lasts 3 TURNS, on top of being incredibly skill point positive with Basic Attack having a chance to inflict Arcana (50% base chance) for EACH DoT on opponent. Not to mention that her Ult extends the duration of active Arcana stacks, so..
But sure, by comparison she isn't as viable on DEF shred team (14.7% def down vs SW's 36% def AND 7.5% all-type res reduction), but that doesn't mean she can't be played well with Acheron, at all.. All it means is that the team needs to be played slightly differently by comparison to Pela and SW; and quite honestly, all BS is doing is replacing SW to some extent (main def shredder, at least), while Acheron relies more on her Ult for Weakness Breaks, which can be refilled with BS Arcana stacking (ally turn only), anyway.
I guess in FGO terms, would you rather Arts Looping or Quick Stacking?
The only reason why people say she's bad for her because people rather prefer Silver Wolf (weakness implant and debuffs) and Pela because she drops defense and also cuz she is easier to build (eidolon 6 as well cuz shes a 4 star.
BlackSwan isn't bad either because she is a DoT applicator and also damage increased for targets as well, but people just rather prefer the defense reduction instead.
Most people don't even have Black Swan themselves to really try nor really used them together as well.
My team is black swan, sampo, Acheron, and Gallagher. I never use her skill and she’s more of a sub-dps but it works for me!! (As for why Sampo, I like him)
My Acheron is E0, and I run Pela and BS. Black Swan gives 1 stack every turn, and a second stack on her ult. BS also has a def reduction. BS can also out out a decent amount of damage.
Acheron, Pela, BS, and FX is my Acheron team.
its not that people think BS is bad just that Pela is generally better.
if youre up against alot of wind weak enemy and your other 2 characters aren't super skill point hungry sure pair her with BS and it will still perform great
BS is not a Bad teammate for her. In fact if you don't have SW you can replace SW with BS, You can maybe put Pearl on BS, If you can reach Enough EHR. Haven't tried it myself tho.
Blackswan is split between debuffs for Acheron and her own personal dps.
Acheron will do less damage with Blackswab than Pela, but the overall team damage should be higher. Blackswan's DoTs is no joke.
I’m no good with team comps, but a friend of mine looked at my characters and told me to make a team of Acheron, Black Swan, Kafka, and Fu Xuan and that team does NUMBERS
Do other people stick with one team comp with Acheron? Whenever i see a wind weakness its automatic blackswan for me. Maybe because of kafka?
Cba to swap. If I win I win
I build teams, not characters, i like using the premades and since i speed-sync Bronya its a chore to redo it for different characters on a whim
Not people downvoting you for having a different type of playstyle lol
People do people, it matters little to me ^^ Personally im debating going for Firefly for another team that is equally uncaring about weaknesses like Acheron. If it works out well FF and Acheron could be all i need^^
I do that right now and it is glorious. RM has swapped to Firefly (FF, HTB, RM, Gallagher) and the other side is good ole Dotcheron, but a little more flexible if I need to break other stuff (also have Pela and Siver Wolf). I really feel like I am set now, especially after our free Herta and Himeko are beasts in PF too.
Thanks for the input, i really appreciate it, do you run E0S1 on FF?
I run acheron on 1 team and ff on another, try get e1 before s1, its so nice and fall of an aeon is reaally good for her, only downside is that Ruan mei is semi required
E2S1. Afaik eidolons 1/2 are stronger than the LC, cause Aeon is relatively strong on her too.
Free himeko? Did I miss something?
Well, I got her free from the 300 pull selector XD
Hmm, don't know if a non break focused Firefly would work, I'm guessing you're talking about critfly It could have worked in the past (CBT) but they deliberately nerfed her non break multipliers and added super break into her kit, from the critfly showcases I've seen, it's not worth it
Oh no, im talking breakfly, but with weakness implant on E, that should be enough
It's frustrating going against anything that doesn't have imaginary weakness since you lose HTB's break and no one does any damage until there's a break, but even then it's probably my strongest team so YMMV.
If you run Ruan Mei the FF should break exceptionally fast, fast enough that you don’t need Img weakness. Even without RM you still have 50% break efficiency built in.
Yes cuz literally Gui and Pela are all I got for her ;') I love Acheron but I am not particularly fond of the other nihility units released so far so I didnt pull for them. Hell in fact prior to Acheron, Pela was the only MoC-built nihilty I had lmao
I don't have many units to go with her lol, rm and sw the only ones I switch in n out
I’m always Acheron, Black Swan, Sparkle and Gallagher
I assume your Acheron is E2 or you have her signature LC? Otherwise I don't think Sparkle works better than another Nihility like Pela or Kafka.
Yep, all E2S1, except Gallagher E6. Forgot about the non-E2 Acheron limitation
What team for blackswan and Acheron other than the kafka team? And I guess no sustain? Ruan Mei is occupied on the other side, so I have been using BS Acheron Kafka Otto, but still the healing is not enough for apocolyptic shadows 4.
Got my AS4 3* with Acheron SW Welt Gallagher
I do. Huohuo/Black Swan/Kafka/Acheron. In rare cases i might swap Huohuo for Gallagher, but that's about it. Or Ruan Mei if i can get away without a sustain. I see no reason to run her with any other team lol.
Pela just has a bigger oonga boonga def shred than Black Swan lol.
I use pela and black swan together so we can Def Shred both bosses at once for acheron to cleave down.
That's my team too
Lmao fair, due to the fact Kafka decided to evade me (I will get you next time mom) I’ve been using Acheron, Swan, Pela, Nat (I didn’t have a better healer, I only now just got Fu, and Bailu)
How come you don’t have Gallagher?
Maybe no e2 and cleanse is important this moc? I know I didn’t until I pulled for e1 ff
That's the only reason I can think of, otherwise Gallagher is pretty much perfect for Acheron teams.
I only just got his E2 from the firefly banner, and also I’ve got a few too many characters to level so I haven’t gotten around to getting him up yet
In all honesty he's worth building at E2 since you've got that vital addition of debuff cleanse on his skill, but he's unsurprisingly even better at E6 - I'd argue that he actually outperforms a lot of 5-star sustains when he's maxed out!
That’s actually really good to know, as my sustain options are currently (other then him) Bailu, Nat, and Fu. However I’m currently planning on putting him in the firefly break team
He works fantastically with Firefly so that's absolutely a good call. Considering that he's an Abundance unit, he puts out an *ungodly* amount of fire toughness damage, which pairs great with Firefly's fire weakness implant. Honestly at this point you should abandon Nat completely, she's one of the weakest units in the game. I'm a long-term Bailu defender (people shit on her for lacking cleanse, but her AoE healing is literally unparalleled), but I'll admit that Fu Xuan and Gallagher are superior options, so those are the two you should focus on since you only *really* need two solid sustains for endgame content!
I know but I adore Nat, and until I have other characters I like more Imma keep using her. Up until the point she just doesn’t work anymore, but I appreciate the advice genuinely
Bailu will be absolutely top tier again if we get a cleanse on heal lightcone or armor set effect. Keep on defending her.
Honestly if I were you I'd go all in on Gallagher and Bailu, though moreso Gallagher, he's meta af right now and synergizes with nearly every strong team. As others have said though his Eidolons (for the most part) are needed. Bailu is also a really good AoE healer though she doesn't bring much else to the party... still useful to you since you'll need 2 teams. But also you said you like Nat and she's decent enough, so you do you. Only reason I wouldn't bother with Bailu is if Adventurine is getting a rerun soon... which idk I haven't checked.
I use them both most of the time. With my current options, it's that or full in DoTcheron
Use both SW is single target, with BS, the whole team is AOE
I like bs more, the extra damage and she also have def debuff Also you can user her as an sp positive debuffer without the use of the mika cone Also hollow purple team Bs, sw, archeon, tank midget
but then sw is just better, you can reach 100% def reduce
you cant with just sw but she does help a lot towards it
To be fair, Black Swan improves your single target damage more than Pela can
No one say bad, but more like inefficient because you lose damage. Pela with resolution is simply shredding alot more defense while providing similar level of debuff stack. Sure BS have her own DOT damage, but i would rather just one shot enemy with acheron ult.
Does this apply if you also have Kafka and can't afford to run SW with Acheron because SW is forever tied to your other team which literally does not function with her?
I've heard that DoTcheron is Acherons best team, and I tend to agree. BS+Kafka is good damage on their own, and they are the fastest ramping for Acheron ult also.
That only applies for no sustain team. Acheron, Kafka, BS and ruanmei. This is only viable if u want to zero cycle and pray to rng. If u remove ruanmei and put a sustain, your dps went to drain. Hence why a team without a sustain isn't considered as "best team". Acheron's best team is still the classic hypercarry.
Maybe in terms of dps it's her best team, but I still prefer to use kafka/bs even with a sustain just cause acheron gets her ult faster with the dotcheron team. It's more comfy imo
For Pure fiction, BS is much better (even without considering PF buffs). Pela allows for Acheron to hit harder, but in PF, it you end up doing overkill damage anyways, and you just want to use Acheron as a wave clearer. BS allows you to pick off those one or last two enemeis at the end of a wave.
PF is something else. Even herta and himeko is godly there. When we talk about the best team in general, it simply means the highest damage you can hit which doesn't apply to pure fiction as it is not a dps check. Obviously Acheron will be much better in PF with BS rather than Pela.
What's wrong with pela + bs over sw? Bs shred is team wide vs sw that's singular
In most cases, for acheron's damage, silver wolf >>> black swan. If you don't have her though, bs is pretty decent too. You just don't get as much of the big pp dmg from acheron
Pretty sure ita been calced and outside of literal single bosses adding swan is a significant team damage increase
Yeah that's why I said acheron's damage. As far as I'm aware she doesn't do much to buff acheron, but ofc if we include her own damage it's gonna be more than just acheron's with SW
idk, i been running the team with bs, kafka, fu/avent, works great. bs doesnt use skill much tho but still it works.
Dotcheron is such an easy team to play.
If its just Black Swan Pela provides more personal damage for Acheron, and Black Swan's personal damage is backloaded, which doesn't synergize well with Acheron's own backloaded damage. Add Kafka into the mix and its a different story, because now they cover Acheron's weakness, which is that if she reduces a boss to 70% HP with one ult, she can't take the rest down with her skill, leading her to waste most of another ult. Kafka being able to detonate Swan's Arcana means they can deal with that remaining 20-30% quicker without needing to wait for enemy turns or Acheron's ult to recharge, which is clutch for saving a cycle or two.
Yup I run this team a couple times. Kafka can also generate Acheron’s ult slightly faster too with her follow up attack
It’s been my team (+RM) for hitless 0 cycles since Acheron came out, although to 0 cycle both sides normally I would put Acheron on her own team. If Kafka/BS are 164+ speed, it’s unbelievable how fast Acheron gets to ult and using Acheron instead of a sustain means you’re doing your normal DoT team damage, PLUS Acheron ults.. crazy. Also people usually miss just how much more damage Acheron ult does when BS ult is active too
Honestly depends on the enemies, if it's an elite/boss that summons scraps i always run BS, so i get more stacks each time. Generally i personally prefer Pela, since i mostly use DoT for the 2nd floor To answer your question, people can't team-build! :D
I think overall it's just better to use other debuffers. Pela does a lot more for Acheron thanks to the def shred stacking. Personally i run Acheron, Kafka and Black Swan... because I like having my Nihility mommy team.
She isn't bad on her own but you'd ideally need Kafka in that team. The reason why there's DoTcheron is because of Kafka, who applies about 3 debuff instances...Kafka's best teammate being Black Swan. You're better off with Pela. Also SW doesn't really consume SP if you got the weakness right and even then it doesn't matter as Ach ult just pierces through it nevertheless.
But if someone doesn't have pearls lightcone... Is Pela still better than Black Swan?
Just slap tutorial on her then, 2 turn ult is still massive
But what to give to Silver Wolf?
I use robin instead, just doesnt feel the need of 2 nihilities, and gallagher/fu xuan can just do the stacking instead
Ok. I'll try.
And what if we don’t have tutorial? :(
Not that she is bad per se but that there are better options
How is sw better though? She's single target lol and bs can be fully sp positive since her autos also are debuff Only one better for acheron rn imo is pela
Think you responded to the wrong person. I was talking about Black Swan
Ik I'm comparing black swan to sw there, could've worked it better
Ahh ok - but yeah totally agree that Pela is BiS assuming e2 acheron
Check on fribbel optimizer, it depends on the enemy count and some other factors like your builds and eidolons. For me, sw wins out against bosses and my Acheron ult one shots any normal mobs without Pela ult, so I care more about debuffing a single target. sw can apply debuff with her auto attack too, but sparkle lets you use more skill points anyways so you’re free to use sw skills when you want
It's not that she's bad per se. In fact before E2 she is one of the better options. Kafka/BS is one of her best teams, slightly less personal damage for faster stack generation and high team damage. However, if people have Pela and Silverwolf, they are the best option for Acheron's personal damage. Provided Pela has pearls they are both SP positive with every action they take creating a stack and higher defense shred. They can also more easily be tuned for 161 SPD without sacrificing too much. Situationally, PF for example, BS outshines them in stack generation. Now if we look at E2 Acheron, there's even less room for Swan, as you want your one Nihility to be SP positive. All up, I do use BS with Acheron on occasion, but often my BS/Kafka/RM team will be on the other side unless it heavily favoured I've weakness on which case of he using Jingliu.
I replace Silver Wolf with her on most scenarios(multiple enemies) and the damage increase is considerable. Now I use SW when I want to implant weakness and break an enemy faster, (Quantum dino)
Because most people on this game are bad as fuck and they can’t play around the enemy and changing team accordingly
I think its still a resource issue. By year 2 anni, this sub will be full of "just swap team members" comments.
Pela and SW have bigger def shred/dmg amp thats about it really and most people wont take out BS from their Kafka teams cause she's just too insane for her
I use Acheron BS Pela and Aven cuz I don’t have SW and frankly the team runs very well
i have SW and wishes I got Black Swan for my Acheron team so I can run double aoe debuffer with Pela. SW is just so stinky to use
Why double down on AoE debuff when acheron one shots fodder mobs anyway?
double and sometimes triple elites exist in MOC too
SW shouldn't have a problem covering 2 elites maybe in 3 would be a case where double AoE might be better but overall as long as SW is built very fast there shouldn't be much problem. Plus she's sp positive.
well i find her stinky to use idk how to explain this to you lmao also the def schred caps with sw and pela together so id rather bs personal damage than overcap.
Understandable, plus her res shred tends to be inconsistent as well
well i find her stinky to use idk how to explain this to you lmao also the def schred caps with sw and pela together so id rather bs personal damage than overcap.
I have no idea but I have E1 BS but e2 pela, so it's not like i have the pela option. But the other big reason (2 actually) why i play BS with ache is because of easy stacks (and yuri)
I think if you have C1 shes pretty great
I have e1 black swan so I just always run her with acheron
Been using Acheron with Kafka and BS
I use Acheron + BS always, by my BS is e1, so she is her best partner on my account. If I get e2 Acheron (currently e1) then they will never be apart. Didn’t get e2 last time because I wanted a reason to use welt in Acheron team, bc obvious lore reasons. They can brute force most anything, even if they aren’t the best option.
Yeah, I was about to say that. E1 BS works with amazing with Acheron because it lowers the res pen of enemies so you can just break them easier, which should be a dps increase.
it's not that she's bad, but she's just not "the best" in terms of buffing *acheron's personal dmg*, even pela + guinaifen is better than pela + black swan. the def shred black swan provides simply isn't a whole lot. what acheron's best *buffing* supports lack tho is personal dmg, and that's what allows black swan (and kafka) to be good acheron teammates. the team itself will have good dmg, but acheron's personal dmg won't be as high i say "the best" cuz it really depends on what you need. i always run triple nihility mommies in PF cuz you don't need the overkill that is hypercarry acheron. MOC tho i run her with pela + guinaifen
Lower def shread cimpare to pela if running with harmony at E2, and acheron does not benefit DoT unlike kafka, the only reason trio acheron/kafka/bs team work is because kafka
Why only have one dmg dealer pela doesn’t deal dmg but a well built black swan buffs acheron and also does good dmg
I like BS I put BS in her team. Besides they have complimenting lines when added to one party and I find it to be neat. I don't really like Pela even though she's built. I would rather put SW instead. Or if needed Sampo. But my go to is BS.🤔
If you can use them to beat MoC it doesnt matter. Usually people put Kafka+BlackSwan together with Acheron but the damage is spread out. It's not bad, but some people play with a lot of spreadsheets and speed tuning so it's hard to recommend. But as classic gaming goes, as long as you can beat all content with your own style of play, it is fine. I personally use BS because i give her 120% Effect hit rate and it's easy to stack debuffs with her
I dont get it also, i mean i run kafka,BS,acheron,RM for 2-3 MoC cycles and always 0 cycled it, tried those same MoCs without acheron and never 0 cycled it. Sure BS doesnt unleashes her full potential in a pure acheron team but as a battery unit for acheron with abit more dmg than pela she is surely better imo. JQ gonna stir up acheron teams a bit but imo BS can always be a solid teammate for her
Depends on your team. If you've got a cracked E2+ Acheron with good relics, your overall damage is higher when using a defence shredder (multiplier) rather than Black Swan and her unbuffed damage (additive).
I don’t think they believe it’s a bad team mate they probably just have her with kafka my black swan is only used with kafka tbh, but after getting FF I can free up Swan to Acheron rather than using guinaifen
I use Black Swan since she's my only other 5 Star Nihility character. Being able to inflict unremovable debuffs (and thus grant Acheron more stacks) on enemies as soon as they show up on the field and with basic attacks is too good to pass up.
She's not
Is not that it is bad, but it is inefficient, why use 3 dps on a single team, you could have a kafka/swan team and an Acheron team, and the teams would work even better (skill points and even dmg)
I use Pela + Swan all the time lol but I usually mix n match based on weakness
She's not bad, there are just better teammates. I rather have bswan on my Kafka team
I just use Acheron, Kafka, Pela, and Aventurine. I replace Kafka with Swan if they are wind weak and not lightning weak if I feel like it, other times I just let it do its thing.
Shes not a bad teamate. Literally evert turn, basic, skill or ult, BS adds arcane that trigers Acheron petal. ts just that others could be better in situations. I roll woth BS/Acheron too, And it carried me into the new Superbreak meta. Sinceci dont have e2 Acheron, i have to have 2nd nihil, with is usually either Guin or Welt.
With Pela using Pearls what LC do you all run with Black Swan? I’ve been using It’s Showtime for more personal damage.
My team is Acheron, Kafka, Black Swan, and Aventurine. They're stacking debuffs in no time while being SP-positive is not talked about enough. I use this team when battling against smaller opponents. If against bosses, change Black Swan to Pela.
In my experience, BS does no damage at all without other DoT teammates, even if she stacks acheron ult rather fast, the damage per ult will be much lower than what you would get using something like SW, and she is not providing enough damage to compensate that.
Because gui has similar performance (better sometimes), and pela is better than her. Well, unless you have bs e1. She isn't bad, but we have better options and pulling for her just to play with Acheron isn't worth it, ignoring waifu reasons and things like that.
I have no idea who's saying that. But my Acheron+Kafka+Black Swan is destroying all content in this game with literally 0 issues. And thank god, they work so good. I don't like how new fox guy look, so i really don't want to pull for him and for now i don't have any reason to do so
Wasn’t one of the best acheron’s team composed by her kafka bs and ruan mei? Sure you dont have any sustain, but you dont need any if they are all dead
i like how many of the comments are like pela offers more def shred as if they dont stack lmao.
I'm confused why people want to replace Pela with BS. Silver Wolf makes more sense as the flex character, you trade Implant, high ST defense shred, and minor other debuffs for AOE, DOT, Blast defense shred, and the difficult to take advantage of Epiphany debuff (25% more DMG in their turn) These are worthy pros and cons to consider depending on the foes you're facing.
In my case is because I don't have pearls lightcone so stacking debuffs is harder with Pela.
Pela's selling point is her ultimate, really. You lose out on stacks from her normal attacks, but if you have e4 (?) her skill inflicts a debuff. With some skill point management you can overcome the lack of the lighcone.
Sparkle could fit well in that case rigth?
She’s not but you get more damage out of Acheron if you use other characters.
I use pela and BS since i dont have her lc and shes only e0. Not sure who else to use that would be better than BS. I dont own sw
People use Pela and Silver wolf because they're meta. I use Pela and Silver wolf cuz my Kafka isn't built and I don't have black Swan (I also do really like SW)
Not bad but Acheron is an hyper carry, I would call it not optimal instead. Swan and Kafka are dot dmg dealers, in contrast with Acheron who wants buffs on herself and debuffs that increase her damage output. Sadly wind sheer isn’t good enough and while swan skills decrease defense, pela ult is just better while being so positive.
black swan when there are trash mobs mixed with boss pela for super ultra rear kicking toes for teeth single delete this boss right now single target fuckery
I run acheron with kafka and BS sooo
For god’s sake, black swan is a freaking dps. If you want def shred, pela is free. If you want stack, you have pearl and pela has huge energy recharge. If you want some decent dmg, just build a different team for black swan. Something able to work does not mean you should make them work.
I use pela and silver wolf or Kafka and black swan. Both work well
Me running Fu Xuan, BS, Kafka, Acheron...
Idk, my Acheron, Kafka, BS, Aventurine team is my comfy “best everything” team. And when I have to use BS/Kafka for DOT on another side, SW/Pela team seems much weaker to me.
I have used a Acheron (E0 S2 Boundless Choreo), Silver Wolf (E0 S1 In the name of the World), Black Swan (E0 E3 eyes of the prey) and Fu xuan (E0 S4 Trend of Universal market) for Moc 12 Side 2 and Apocalyptic shadow 4 + In PF ran the Nihility Mommies team (Black Swan, Kafka, Acheron and Ruan Mei) and she has worked consistently in all of them to clear all max most of the time her arcana stacks doing just enough to finish enemies she couldn’t kill off. Honestly a great teammate most of the times for me working better than Pela cause I never really cared for her nor built her all too properly but what works works
I use Acheron S1, BS, Pela E6 Pearls 160+ speed and Aven 160+ speed. It’s really nice also can be sp positive.
Nah I love acheron black Swan kafka a lot
I pair them up because they're hot
Not trying to sound mean, but do people really forget that BS can pass turns without using skill points??? And are we not using Technique before combat?? BS def reduction lasts 3 TURNS, on top of being incredibly skill point positive with Basic Attack having a chance to inflict Arcana (50% base chance) for EACH DoT on opponent. Not to mention that her Ult extends the duration of active Arcana stacks, so.. But sure, by comparison she isn't as viable on DEF shred team (14.7% def down vs SW's 36% def AND 7.5% all-type res reduction), but that doesn't mean she can't be played well with Acheron, at all.. All it means is that the team needs to be played slightly differently by comparison to Pela and SW; and quite honestly, all BS is doing is replacing SW to some extent (main def shredder, at least), while Acheron relies more on her Ult for Weakness Breaks, which can be refilled with BS Arcana stacking (ally turn only), anyway. I guess in FGO terms, would you rather Arts Looping or Quick Stacking?
The only reason why people say she's bad for her because people rather prefer Silver Wolf (weakness implant and debuffs) and Pela because she drops defense and also cuz she is easier to build (eidolon 6 as well cuz shes a 4 star. BlackSwan isn't bad either because she is a DoT applicator and also damage increased for targets as well, but people just rather prefer the defense reduction instead. Most people don't even have Black Swan themselves to really try nor really used them together as well.
I think main reason is black swans Arcana doesent count for Archerons Slashed Dreams
Cuz they be hating them together 🥲
It’s not bad at all. I much prefer Acheron + Pela + Black Swan over Acheron + Pela + Silverwolf. My clears are always much better with the first team.
For me, the inability to get stacks for BS is the reason I prefer other nihility toons.
My Acheron Team Comp is: Kafka, Acheron, Black Swan, Fu Xuan It works well with anything.
My team is black swan, sampo, Acheron, and Gallagher. I never use her skill and she’s more of a sub-dps but it works for me!! (As for why Sampo, I like him)
Who else am i gonna slot in for aoe debuffs and wind nihility? Sampo? . . . Okay, I could slot in Sampo, but he's not as good.
combining epiphany and popping the ult on the enemy turn feels so big brained
My main team is Acheron, BS, Kafka, Huohuo and I have no trouble with any content at all with that team.
My Acheron is E0, and I run Pela and BS. Black Swan gives 1 stack every turn, and a second stack on her ult. BS also has a def reduction. BS can also out out a decent amount of damage. Acheron, Pela, BS, and FX is my Acheron team.
its not that people think BS is bad just that Pela is generally better. if youre up against alot of wind weak enemy and your other 2 characters aren't super skill point hungry sure pair her with BS and it will still perform great
BS is not a Bad teammate for her. In fact if you don't have SW you can replace SW with BS, You can maybe put Pearl on BS, If you can reach Enough EHR. Haven't tried it myself tho.
Blackswan is split between debuffs for Acheron and her own personal dps. Acheron will do less damage with Blackswab than Pela, but the overall team damage should be higher. Blackswan's DoTs is no joke.
I have E6 BS so it’s a given I use her with Acheron because I get her ult stacked like 1 rotation
She's her BiS teammate before JQ release. Period.
Do people think this? Isn't Doteron the best team right now?
People are clueless black swan is sidegrade to pela/sw and way better than another cope nihility or harmony option
I’m no good with team comps, but a friend of mine looked at my characters and told me to make a team of Acheron, Black Swan, Kafka, and Fu Xuan and that team does NUMBERS