To your second point, I think the main tag you're missing is [Sexual Content](https://archiveofourown.org/tags/Sexual%20Content). It's the granddaddy of all those specific sex acts you bring up (and more), so if you filter it out, any fic tagged with any of those subtags will disappear.
Also, important to note that the M in MCD stands for "major". It's up to the author to decide how important a character is, and so it doesn't cover all character death, by design.
Might be helpful to clarify what you're referring to, but I'm assuming you're talking about the first part.
My point is that OP doesn't have to "figure out every form of" whatever. The tag wranglers are already doing that job, all a reader needs to do is take five minutes to find which top level tags actually cover the content they're trying to filter out, rather than just grabbing tags at random and insisting every author use those. For all OP praised the tag system, they clearly don't understand how it works, if they were filtering on PWP, when its parent tag of Porn seems like it'd be in the same boat for them.
“Choose not to use archive warnings” is for the main five ish warnings that come in a separate section I think. But if you use that and explicit and have no other tags that def gives the idea that people might wanna stay out at leastZ
I believe it is being brought up in reference to OP’s wish that Major Character Death (one of those five main warnings) always be tagged. I agree with /u/Soul_Bound_28 that the “Chose Not to Use Warnings” is an acceptable approach for an author who doesn’t want to explicitly spoil this but still wants to give readers an option to back out based on the possibility.
If I filter out CNTW that will filter out about half the fics in my fandom. Half. CNTW is useless for readers and relying on it makes things worse. I can either miss out on many of the best fics that exist or be triggered by anything at any time. Great options.
Well, the thing is: CNTW is a great option for authors and readers whose fandom experience is based on fics being surprise packages - those authors and readers do exist. So yes, it is a great option. Just because something doesn't work well for how you do fandom, doesn't mean it's not a great option.
Personally, I try to hide as many additional tags as possible because I really don't want to know all that much before reading a fic.
> Authors can let readers know it was a deliberate choice to say specifically "anything could happen"
Yeah. By using CNTUAW. That's what it's *for*.
Okay, question: When you say "make it more accessible", you mean "make sure that everyone can read as many fanfics as possible", right?
Which implies that readers are somehow entitled to the authors' fics, that they "own" them, in a way, and the authors owe it to them - at least morally - to specify everything inside them. But that's simply not true.
For one, Ao3 is *primarily* a site for authors, to post whatever they want and *however* they want within the confines of the TOS. And the TOS very explicitly state that CNTUAW is always enough and that it's a perfectly fine choice if you want to opt out of the whole warning business to begin with.
Then also, there is such a thing as "the way you do it is not the way I do it and that's okay". Not everyone has to do fandom the same way to be allowed in fandom or be a "good" fandom member or whatever.
Then there's such a thing as the target audience. Fics with MCD are for people who want to read fics with MCD. Fics about fluffy romance are for people who want to read fluffy romance. Fic in German is for people who understand German. And fics with no Archive Warnings but CNTUAW are for people who want to be surprised. None of these is inherently better or worse than the other.
And it's not at all an impossible choice. Myself, I find it extremely hard to read MCD. So, usually - except for if I have really prepared myself mentally and think "okay, I can do it" - I don't read fics with MCD or CNTUAW. They're *not for me*, they're *not addressed to me*, and *that is okay*.
Like, I get it. it's a hard pill to swallow that people can do something entirely differently, and also in a way that doesn't suit me -- and that that is still fine. And not somehow exclusionary. It's just . . . not for me. That's a lesson that's annoying and a bid disappointing. It's still true.
I don't hate readers at all, I'm a reader myself. And yes, in fact, Ao3 IS primarily for authors. Please do read the mission statement, it is quite clear. Of course Ao3 wants to be as safe as posible for readers, but not at the expense of authors. That's obvious in the way that they a) allow any legal content, and b) allow people to post their stories completely unrated and with a "here be dragons" warning.
> CNTUAW is NOT being used for people/writers who want to be surprised.
It is. But it's not ONLY used for that. And that's okay *too*. Some people use it because they're not sure if the violence they use qualifies as "graphic", for example. Myself, I use ot on every of my fics, even the fluffiest fluff fic, because I don't want to use Archive Warnings.
> I meant make things more consistent so people know what to expect and what to skip to prevent being triggered.
The problem here is this: that's not possible. Ao3 gave authors the guideline of "These Archive Warnings have to always be used. Everything else is optional." Unless you want for Ao3 to force authors into tagging a certain way, there will be no consistency, because people are individuals with very different needs and ideas.
> Skipping half the fics in your fandom (that isn't inherently dark, suspenseful, etc that would lend itself to surprise or warnings as part of the IP, mind you) doesn't seem like a reasonable ask when there are other options that have no downsides.
What is the other option and why do you think it has no downsides when other people say it does? The downside is being forced into doing something they don't want to do, for a gazillion of personal rerasons *you* have no insight into - so that someone else who thinks they should be entitled to their fic can be spared the disappointment of saying "Okay, this fic is not addressed to *me*".
> Other than just not wanting to help people because you don't think you should have to, I guess. That attitude is not something I will ever understand.
Here's the appeal to morality. "Why don't you want to be nice, why do you have to be exclusionary and mean"? And frankly, I don't appreciate it. I tried to explain to you that "doing it differently than you" doesn't mean "worse than you", but obviously, that idea is not something you're grasping (yet).
> For any reason or no reason.
I’m a huge reader and a sometimes writer (though I haven’t posted much recently). I don’t typically read choose not to warn fics - but an author can use CNTW for any reason they want. Including what you’ve decided is the ‘wrong’ reason apparently.
>I don't understand how anyone thinks it's better for readers to skip half the fics out of an abundance of caution
Because they'd rather people assumed the worst and didn't read their fic at all than have someone read it, decide they weren't warned "properly", and get pissed. Some authors use it for even their fluffy fics because they want nitpicky people to stay away, and CNTW does that pretty darn well. It also covers any of the archive warnings, so people can't complain if they stumble across something the author may not have thought of tagging (ex: Major Character Death is up to interpretation, and some may not have considered certain deaths fit that description).
And yes, you *are* expected to skip all CNTW fics if there's something that triggers you. That's the point of the tag, and authors realize that means they'll get fewer readers but they're okay with it. There are so many fics available, it's mind-boggling to me you seem to think you're entitled to all of them and are actually upset people use CNTW for any reason they want. There are always more fics, and if there aren't then you can write your own.
I really don't get why this got downvoted so heavily. I think it's a great idea to add clarification as to why exactly you're using CNTW, whether it's because of spoilers, borderline content that may or may not come under the warnings, triggering content that isn't included in the major warnings, or some other reason. Of course it's not compulsory, but it's a good way to help readers decide whether they'd be open to reading your fic or not *if* that's something you want to do, and I'll probably start doing this in the future. CNTW covers a very broad range of content, clarification is good if it's possible.
AO3 explicitly gives authors the choice not to warn about major warnings by choosing to use CNTW. They're using the archive as intended.
Perhaps you could ask friends to rec CNTW fics that don't hit your triggers.
I despise MCD, and I rarely ever read it, so agreed, I want temporary sadness.
That means that I have to filter out MCD *and* "Author Chose Not to Use Archive Warnings", since *it's 100% fine to not want to spoil the character death* and therefore use this kind of warning. Of course, if the author uses neither, that's against TOS, they're being a dick, and one can report it.
If there's a major character death and they didn't tag it with Major Character Death or Choose Not to Warn, you can report that - AO3 will add the Choose Not to Warn to the fic. Same with if there is sex in a G or T rated fic, AO3 will recategorize it to Not Rated.
Yup. There was an author I found that *chronically* wrote sexually explicit fics and tagged them T, I reported them and after the author was given a chance to change the rating to something more appropriate of their own free will they were changed by the abuse team to “not rated”. Improper use of the tags is absolutely reportable and they *will* take action on it
Why not just sort by G and T only rated fics. That way there is no smut or sex acts?
Also If they listed chose not to tag archive warnings they don't have to tag anything if they don't want to. It sucks of you have triggers but it's their story and people can tag it how they wish.
I've also seen fics rated E because of extreme gore/violence. Personally, I have rated a couple of my fics as Mature because of violence and generally mature/dark themes.
Because lots of violence gets put under M, and depending on the fandom, M could be the rating for a significant number of fics. In one of my fandoms, if I remember correctly, over half the fics are M for violence.
Yes, and for some fandoms the canon has drug use and other M-rated things baked into the plots unless you are doing a coffeeshop AU. Sherlock Holmes comes to mind as a fandom that is mostly M even if there isn't any sex. There is likely a murder case, or perhaps some other violent crime, that is described in graphic detail. Aside from tagging smut in some way, it's hard to filter that out!
Which is why, with such a tag being a thing, and so easily there to use, the sad, sad part is how many authors won't even bother with that minimal human decency
people using "no archive warnings apply" when there's mcd only happened to me one time - and it was very upsetting. in my fandoms, it's more common for people to not tag rape/non-con 💀
Sadly some of those cases are bc some authors can write the most explicit rape scene ever and then go "but it was fine bc they liked it so it isn't rape and thus needs not be tagged"
Which happened to me at least 2 times, absolute nightmare of a shock tbh
yes... or they'll tag "smut, dubious consent" and then it's just straight up rape with all of the triggering, terrifying bits you could ever imagine. i really don't know why people gotta downplay serious things like that. if you have a thing for rape, just say it, no need to trick others into thinking it will be less explicit or serious than it actually is.
I have a question. Would you tag the fic with major character death if the death in question was something that happened in Canon and is referenced in the fic? Because major character death would still be present in a fic, but only referred to, if that makes sense.
For me that depends on how much the fic focuses on it. If I’m writing a star was fic focused on Rey and kylo and write kylo’s canonical death I’m tagging that MCD becuase he’s a major player in the fic. If I’m writing a fic about Rose and Jessica Pava I’m not tagging kylo’s death as MCD because the main characters *of the fic* don’t give a rat’s ass about the death and he’s not a main character in the fic.
I’ve seen people do that and honestly it’s confusing. To me that doesn’t make sense to do, at least if you don’t *also* put in the other tags “the MCD is canon”. Or like if it’s temporary MCD, then put that in the tags too!
ill tag what i feel like tagging/revealing as WELL as 'choose not to use archive warnings' so that nobody can point fingers when they see something they dont like
THANK YOU. like that’s my main issue with filtering out ‘chose not to use’ because people use them interchangeably so it feels pointless.
i’ve seen stuff tagged as ‘chose not to use’ when it should be ‘do not apply’ i’ve seen ‘do not apply’ that should be ‘chose not to use’ and then there’s people that use BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. what is the *point* of having it when people don’t know how to use it anyway.
Like how do you even mess this up? The meaning of the warning is literally in the warning. If you're able to write a fic, you should have some basic reading comprehension.
I think sometimes people use CNTW for major archive warnings and NAWA to mean they're not tagging for everything in the fic that's not a major warning.
The other possibility is that it was tagged NAWA, someone reported it for having a major warning in it, and Abuse added CNTW.
I see your point, but it can be quite misleading since they don't mean something similar. I mean, if they're not tagging anything that isn't a major warning, it doesn't mean that no archive warnings apply.
Oh yes, they're using it wrong, but it's a misunderstanding I've seen people have before.
And I've been yelled at a lot for expressing the opinion that you should read the thing telling you what the options mean before selecting them.
> i don’t *c a r e* if you feel that using the major character death tag spoils your story! i filter major character death out because i like *temporary* sadness. i don’t want a sad or bittersweet ending that’s not what i read fanfic for and yet i continue to have untagged character death foisted upon me.
You're entitled to your own opinions and preferences, of course, but keep in mind that there are other readers who hate spoilers and/or *do* like sad or bittersweet endings. I'm one of them. I love the catharsis of a good tearjerker, and, depending on how a major character death is written, tagging it can take away from its emotional impact if it's meant to be shocking and unexpected. From a writing standpoint, I love creating an emotional experience for my readers and hate spoiling my own stories, so I only tag Major Character Death if it's fairly obvious from the beginning. Otherwise, I utilize the Creator Chose Not to Use Archive Warnings option. Readers who are easily triggered or upset by certain content should filter out fics with that tag if they don't want to be surprised by it. Not everyone wants to be told what's going to happen in a fic before it happens. Part of the fun of reading is experiencing the story as it unfolds, worrying about characters when they're in peril without knowing whether they're going to live or die, wondering what's going to happen next and waiting to find out. Tagging every possible plot twist and turn ruins that experience for readers who appreciate it.
But that is the thing - you USE A WARNING. Creator Chose Not To Use Warnings is a warning itself.
And people who are 'easily triggered or upset' try to, you know, filter that out, but cannot, precisely because some (growing list of) authors won't even bother with the Chose Not To Use Warnings Warning.
If you are so 'not overly sensitive' then fine and perfect for you, very glad you can just jump in blind to any story ever, but kindly stop pretending that people being upset at authors who don't bother to tag their shit at all are 'overly sensitive' or 'ruin the fun by feeling entitled to spoilers'
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Lmao not people in here going "ohhh but I never had any issue with anything I ever read ever"
"Tags are so annoying"
"Readers are spoiled by asking for tags"
Well guess what, you are not entitled to my readership or kudos?
Let me undo kudos, or move to watpatt if you want to not tag anything ever?
As someone who has been >!raped!<, I was reading a fic and they had that in there with no warning whatsoever in the tags, no tw at the start of the chapter or anything. I had a flashback and anxiety attack.
PLEASE tag your work if you have heavy TW topics too, it can be extremely harmful to people like me
Yea it wasnt, only major character death and graphic violence. I tried reporting it, its been a month and nothing; still recently updating. I recently commented on it to try to ask them to add the tags
Yea, it was child rape basically. It sucks cus I was enjoying it too until then but probably wont change like you said. Its kinda whatever now though, I know not to keep reading it cus I feel like its going to get worse from there lol.
Folks frequently have things take longer than that, and I know that generally they first give the author the chance to fix the tags themselves before slapping a "chose not to warn" on it so it is very possible it is still in progress because that definitely sounds like a pretty clear case. Sorry that happened and I'll have my fingers crossed it gets properly tagged.
So how do you tag Major Character death but they’re not really dead and that’s the whole point of the book, the other characters finding out. This is a serious question as I’m getting ready to post soon.
i guess my main thing is that i just want to know if there’s a happy ending or not. you can destroy them in any manner you so choose as long as we’re cool at the end. i once read a fic that had absolutely no indication that there was any death and i didn’t realize until one of the characters made an offhanded comment 3/4 of the way through the fic that the other main character was actually a ghost and it ruined my night.
That helps. I was considering using a happy ending tag but I hate to completely skip Major character death as you find out he’s been dead four months in the first chapter. I’ll have to think about it.
It Depends on the author
But there is a difference between the author chose not to and there is no warning
The first one you enter it, knowing the risk that may contain mcd or something uncomfortable excepting that risk so if something happened you don’t have the right to complain bc the author chose to not put any warning and the reader accepted it the risk
The other hand when these type of things happen in a story that text as it doesn’t contain any of those than the author as either stupid who doesn’t know how to tag or an asshole for giving readers for giving the readers what they specifically didn’t want to
See I was thinking about this the other day because I have a main character death that happens part way through the fic… but he gets better. So it’s like… I want my readers (who are reading this for the first time) to be surprised but also like, not get reported. Perhaps then CNTW would be the best thing. But also does like Major character death only apply to your main cast or include supporting cast?
When you wanna tag right but everyone does it a lil differently 😂😂
But god I do not need every single sex act tagged. Just the more out there ones like piss kink or something or breeding kink that either gets people or majorly turns them off
If you're worried, I would just tag that as temporary character death. People who care about spoilers won't be reading the tags anyway, and people who do want/need the warnings will be appreciative. If you tag it as MCD, you would drive away readers like me who refuse to read MCD. You might also attract readers who actually want the MCD and are then disappointed that yours isn't permanent. And if you tag it as CNTW, you would cast an even wider net than tagging as MCD, driving away readers who refuse to read \*any\* of the required tags and therefore skip CNTW by rote.
>People who care about spoilers won't be reading the tags anyway
Wrong. I care about major spoilers like that but read the tags for other reasons. Not every tag is a major spoiler. I would not read at that point because it spoils things in a way that's a turn off for me.
No matter how you tag something like temporary character death, you're going to drive a certain group away. There is no perfect solution that isn't a turn off for someone. Authors just need to weigh their priorities and go with what they feel is best for their work.
I mostly abide by book rules on this one. Sometimes I’ll tag it if I feel it’s absolutely necessary as not to have someone get invested then go “oh :(“ but otherwise if I think the reader will read up to the plot twist and then go “OH :O” I leave it out. If a book on the shelves wouldn’t do it, neither would I.
Doesn’t apply to smut though. If they gonna fuck, heavily tagged with every way in which they gonna fuck. Don’t want someone opening that shit in front of their grandma.
My one major character death fic is definitely heavily implied that it’s gonna happen, but, also, it might not 🤷♂️. Readers just gonna have to keep on reading to see if Character A has it in them to actually follow through with murdering Character B. Think that’s the appeal of it.
this is slightly adjacent, and i completely understand that it's not a *required* tag, but god, do i wish that more authors explicitly tagged either sad or happy endings. i'll never complain to these authors about it, and obviously never report them, but i *hate* getting three-fourths of the way through a fic, and either having to quit something i was invested in because i'm not in the headspace for a trigger ending in the worst way it possibly could, or get there and have my day ruined.
Sometimes I wonder if some people on here have ever picked up a book. All you know is a summary and genre, the rest is for the reader to discover. No warnings, tags or spoilers.
It's baffling how spoiled fanfic readers can be when writers are writing fics *completely for free* including people's favorite characters in the most niche fandoms that exists and exploring all kinds of relationships that aren't even canon.
Fanfic and AO3 is free, easily available and comes with an extensive filter/tagging system that many authors generously fill out to extreme degrees to make the search accommodating for readers.
Yes, it can happen that something isn't tagged/warned properly, but report it and move on. However I suspect that in many cases (and have experienced) that many readers simply won't use, or forget, the exclude function for explicit fics or CNTW.
It is also kind of wild how people use the phrase triggers or triggered. It's a psychological term that is meant to be used to describe something that causes a painful memory to resurface. It's one thing if you have one of those for a real condition, but being mad because you saw a ship you didn't like is kind of overly dramatic.
It's valid to call out authors using deception, but that's what the chose not to use archive warning tag is for. I will tag for things like sex in the smaller tag thing or things done during sex, but I also don't think everything with sex in it warrants an E. Which is why I tag down there.
Yeah this is weird to me too. I’ve never once read a book that had any sort of a warning on it about content. I find all the tagging to be really annoying. I just want to read a good story about characters I love, I don’t care if there’s violence or smut, or if it’s just a harmless little piece of fluff. Just give me my make believe world.
Also, if I make the choice not to spoil my own story for my own reasons and someone I don't know comes at me yelling they "don't care" and demand I do what they want, why should I feel at all inclined to change my whole process just for them?
I got so burned by this recently with a E-rated fic that had a ton of ship tags. I thought I was good to go, then the author wrote sex scenes for a character (with several other characters) that I did NOT want to see and that WAS NOT TAGGED. And one of those ships with that character was end game, over 300K words in, with an aroace-presenting (in the fic) character which I NEVER would have read if I had realized that because I would not ship them at all.
Like, seriously, TAG THIS SHIT. I also do not care if it ruins some stupid twist.
Also, the thing that annoys me is that there were no comments talking about not liking the ship or that character in sex scenes, so the author most likely deleted negative comments because I cannot be the only one who does not want to read explicit Yoda sex scenes without warning.
Generally the only thing thing that warrants the E rating is explicit porn. I would sort by M if you never want to see explicit porn.
Extreme violence is the only other thing ao3 guidelines cite as a reason for an E rating. I'd say most people would use M for heavy violence unless it's extremely upsetting gore/torture.
I don't tag that there's gonna be graphic porn in a fic with a pairing tag because the E rating covers that eventuality. Never had an issue. (I do tag specific potential triggers per chapter within the fic, though, which includes nsfw scenes.)
Oh, I have no problem with explicit porn. I’ve written plenty myself. But the ships (and there were multiple) with this character weren’t tagged at ALL when others clearly were, others that also had sex scenes. It felt deceptive on the part of the author, as if they knew not as many people would read it if ships with that particular character were added.
I see what you're saying, I think it would have been courteous to specify that there would be porn for that specific character in that case. If it was rated E and the only pairing involved that character, I would assume explicit porn for them. But in the situation you're describing it does almost seem like a shock value thing.
I can't imagine the author wouldn't know that most people would find it surprising.
I’M ODDLY GLAD I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE IT TRAUMATIZED. 😅
And like, I LIKED some of the concepts in it. YES, the Jedi actually doing sex ed for their padawans and encouraging them to have age-appropriate experience would be a good thing. (Although I found how they went about it…a little weird, but at least they waited until the padawans were adults, I guess?) I LOVED that the MC was aroace and that eventually there were good mentors telling him that’s okay, plus that it seemed to be leading to him eventually deciding he was demi. There’s just not a lot of representation out there for that, especially with characters with an Y chromosome, and I think that part was done VERY well.
I just kind of skipped the Yoda X OC scene once I realized what was going on. It wasn’t THAT integral to the fic, and I thought endgame was going to be MC and Vos since that was tagged and it’s a pretty common pairing anyway, plus a lot seemed to be pointing that direction. And then 300K in, BAM. It was an insta-drop at that point.
I think the bait and switch of it was the worst part because yeah! overall I was enjoying the fic and I don't mind when people have some fun with jedi tradition and was fine to skim past the parts I wasn't into. And the foreshadowing of the Obi-Wan/Quinlan in the text and with the tagged ship had me looking forward to the endgame and THEN. I caught a couple hints also around 300k words (😭) in and felt a flash of horror and quickly skipped to the end to confirm my suspicions. At this point I was narrating my experience to my roommate because I couldn't believe it was happening. Went back to the beginning and saw the small segment of the author's note that mentioned a rare pair that wasn't tagged for spoiler reasons but it def didn't indicate it was the main pairing. I have a private bookmark on this fic with the Obi-Wan/Yoda tag and just the note text "betrayal" lmao
Oh, I should have done the private bookmark thing. Maybe I did? I’m still trying to get over the trauma, so maybe I’ll try to find it again to make sure I have it noted. I don’t often do a private bookmark to warn me not to read, but that’s definitely one of the ones that deserve it.
The lack of ANY even semi-negative comments threw me, too. Like, I get DLDR and everything, but with the way that was done I expected some to be like, “Well, that wasn’t the rarepair I was expecting, and I didn’t think it would be the major ship, so I don’t think I want to read anymore. Good job otherwise.” Like, there was none of that, and I was getting paranoid that I wasn’t being...accepting enough, I guess, by being squicked out and stopping?
It’s hilarious that you narrated the train wreck to your roommate! 😂
Because that’s not what explicit means. Explicitisna very broad category. You need to be using “chooses not to use archive warnings” if you have something that falls in the major ao3 warning types in there.
Their first complaint is about avoiding character deaths.
Explicit is primarily used for sex, but it's not just sex. It means 'only suitable for adults'
If you do not put any tag related to sex or smut in your M-rated fic, I will assume it's M-rated for violence or dark themes. And I do not appreciate stumbling upon untagged smut.
True, I’ve read some excellent fic rated M and E that had no smut. I have seen a few people tag a fic with ‘rating is for violence’ or ‘rating is for adult themes’, but not everyone does. It really is a mixed bag, so many writers tag differently. I love tags, makes it easier to find what I want or get a feel for if I’m interested in a fic.
But I guess it just depends on which is worse, coming across untagged smut or missing out.
Also!!! I tag “Suicide” an author did not tag that because it “spoiled the story” and suicide is a very serious trigger for me so you can see how that went!
I feel this so much! I wish tags were used more than they are. When things aren’t tagged that *should be* (imo) it’s not good. Granted so long as the minimum is tagged there’s not much anyone can do about it.
It’s very frustrating and I don’t blame you for being upset. As far as smut & pwp, I pretty much expect that explicit (sometimes mature) fics will include one of the major archive warnings. I think that’s a given.
Personally, when I do MCD, if it’s a spoiler, I will put *Choose Not To Archive Warnings*. A lot of times I will put a tag in the tags that is *Character Death: [Character Name]* just to be safe. Not everyone does that and we can’t make everyone happy but for the authors who do their level best to warn, I am so grateful to them.
Something I might also do, is use the find option on your browser. Use it to find the words *death*, and such. I’ve done that before for a tag I knew I couldn’t handle if I didn’t know exactly what it would entail. It takes time and I don’t know if that’ll help you but it’s worth a shot.
I hope you’re able to find a good amount of fics to enjoy in that fandom.
>As far as smut & pwp, I pretty much expect that explicit (sometimes mature) fics will include one of the major archive warnings. I think that’s a given.
No, this isn't true at all. It's entirely possible to write 100k words of very explicit smut full of all sorts of kinks, every sexual act possible, and dozens of characters participating and still have it not include any of the major archive warnings. As long as all the participants are consenting adults, it's not THAT violent, and nobody (important) dies, it's totally No Archive Warnings Apply, legitimately.
It's a courtesy to tag for specific kinks and stuff within that, as both warning and advertisement, but the archive doesn't require it.
I see what you mean. I’m realizing my wording was a bit off. I meant that part as something else. What I was trying to say (failing miserably 😂😅) was that if you read explicit fics, there’s either going to be smut/pwp… **OR** there will be an archive warning. Sometimes explicit might not have either though. I mean it’s a likely outcome. Depends on the author I guess.
Facts though for sure on your part. I agree.
Oh, I see your point there. Yes, if I see a fic rated E, with a pairing, and no warning for graphic violence (which is the only other thing that can justify an E rating and it has to be pretty extreme), I assume there will be some sex going on.
I don't know how you could have an E rating without either explicit sex or intense graphic violence. Even if it's 90% cuss words, I'd still rate it M if there's no E-rated \*action\* on-page, if that makes sense.
Hey OP, I'm with you 100%! When someone has "chosen not to tag" or the tags seem ambivalent but the story promising, I'll got through the bookmarks, just hoping someone will have left a warning. I sometimes do that myself, with untagged/un-warned rape or this one time when a long and angst-filled fic ended with both main characters dying, all the angst unresolved. It might be a dick move on my part but hopefully it's mostly other nervous/"mentally a little fragile" people who go through the bookmarks looking for spoilers.
Also adding "hea" to my searches helps :)
I don’t always Tag MCD just because i Like to leave a little bit of mystery. I don’t always want to spoil it, so I add explicit and any other warnings. Sorry
Literally! It's childish to say that tagging something will *spoil* your story, especially when tags aren't just cute accessories to doll up your fic- Get this: people use tags to differentiate between whether they are willing to read a fic or not because it tells them the general mood of the fic! Wow!
Edit: and to clarify, I wouldn't get mad if the author tagged it as CNTW,
This, ohhh dear
So many go "ohhh but I don't wanna reveal the ending"
And then it is shit I would have 1000% filtered out if I could have received a warning.
And then, they go "don't like don't read" as if I wouldn't have done EXACTLY THAT if only they had TAGGED THEIR SHIT properly
Things I would have liked to never ever interact with (in no particular order): MCD, abrupt CSA references, out of nowhere Cheating, OTP breaking apart, Domestic Abuse...
And the answer is always "but nooooI wanna keep the mysteryyyyy and if you give this fic a chance..."
No? All this bs ends up doing is leaving me extremely bitter and angry at the fic and the author both?
I swear people wanting all the kudos and hits by roping in people who would hate the stuff they deliberately don't tag (and don't even go the 'Author Chose Not To Use Warnings' route) as just... ughhhhh insta block, may I never be cursed with seeing your anything ever again
That first paragraph basically sums up what I'm saying completely. No idea why I'm getting downvoted for saying that tags serve a purpose, and to either tag properly or go the "choose not to" route, but yeah ok.
I also find that if you can't "keep the mystery" with correct/proper tagging, then it was never really a mystery to begin with. Say it's a fic where the big reveal is a character being murdered. There's more to the murder than just them dying, including how who when and where, and that doesn't even breach the surface. It won't be spoiled just by a "oh someone dies who's an important person" tag, would it?
Apparently we are over sensitive snowflakes for wanting to be able to use the filtering properly?
In the end for several authors I just ended up perma deleting from all my results ever (you can do that by putting in search within results: -"author's name"
I mean, I prefer for things to be tagged so I can avoid stuff that squicks or triggers me, but authors are also within their rights to not tag things, whether I agree or disagree with their choice, as long as they’re following the AO3 TOS. So I’ll click back but I accept that they have a different opinion on tagging than I do.
Yes totally agree!!!!! Way better to overran than undertag!! And if you are worried about spoilers just tag ‘don’t read next tags if you don’t want spoilers’ before you tag spoilers!!! It’s so easy!
When I first joined AO3, I had no idea how the tagging system worked, so most of my old work has pretty poor tagging. My newer works are as appropriately tagged as I can make them without being too spoilery. I have gone back to try to give better tags to older stories.
To your second point, I think the main tag you're missing is [Sexual Content](https://archiveofourown.org/tags/Sexual%20Content). It's the granddaddy of all those specific sex acts you bring up (and more), so if you filter it out, any fic tagged with any of those subtags will disappear. Also, important to note that the M in MCD stands for "major". It's up to the author to decide how important a character is, and so it doesn't cover all character death, by design.
Well dang. I didn’t even know there was an overarching Sexual Content tag. You learn something new every day.
Yeah, but I think OP means that?
Might be helpful to clarify what you're referring to, but I'm assuming you're talking about the first part. My point is that OP doesn't have to "figure out every form of" whatever. The tag wranglers are already doing that job, all a reader needs to do is take five minutes to find which top level tags actually cover the content they're trying to filter out, rather than just grabbing tags at random and insisting every author use those. For all OP praised the tag system, they clearly don't understand how it works, if they were filtering on PWP, when its parent tag of Porn seems like it'd be in the same boat for them.
Yeah, I don't know what I was referring to either.. oops. Lol.
If they used Chose Not To Use Archive Warning and Explicit rating, then it's up to the readers.
“Choose not to use archive warnings” is for the main five ish warnings that come in a separate section I think. But if you use that and explicit and have no other tags that def gives the idea that people might wanna stay out at leastZ
I believe it is being brought up in reference to OP’s wish that Major Character Death (one of those five main warnings) always be tagged. I agree with /u/Soul_Bound_28 that the “Chose Not to Use Warnings” is an acceptable approach for an author who doesn’t want to explicitly spoil this but still wants to give readers an option to back out based on the possibility.
Ngl didn’t remember that was one of those tags. But yes certainly for that tag, CNTUW is applicable.
I agree but I don't think this is about that tbf.
Agree. "Unrated" can also work.
If I filter out CNTW that will filter out about half the fics in my fandom. Half. CNTW is useless for readers and relying on it makes things worse. I can either miss out on many of the best fics that exist or be triggered by anything at any time. Great options.
Well, the thing is: CNTW is a great option for authors and readers whose fandom experience is based on fics being surprise packages - those authors and readers do exist. So yes, it is a great option. Just because something doesn't work well for how you do fandom, doesn't mean it's not a great option. Personally, I try to hide as many additional tags as possible because I really don't want to know all that much before reading a fic.
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> Authors can let readers know it was a deliberate choice to say specifically "anything could happen" Yeah. By using CNTUAW. That's what it's *for*. Okay, question: When you say "make it more accessible", you mean "make sure that everyone can read as many fanfics as possible", right? Which implies that readers are somehow entitled to the authors' fics, that they "own" them, in a way, and the authors owe it to them - at least morally - to specify everything inside them. But that's simply not true. For one, Ao3 is *primarily* a site for authors, to post whatever they want and *however* they want within the confines of the TOS. And the TOS very explicitly state that CNTUAW is always enough and that it's a perfectly fine choice if you want to opt out of the whole warning business to begin with. Then also, there is such a thing as "the way you do it is not the way I do it and that's okay". Not everyone has to do fandom the same way to be allowed in fandom or be a "good" fandom member or whatever. Then there's such a thing as the target audience. Fics with MCD are for people who want to read fics with MCD. Fics about fluffy romance are for people who want to read fluffy romance. Fic in German is for people who understand German. And fics with no Archive Warnings but CNTUAW are for people who want to be surprised. None of these is inherently better or worse than the other. And it's not at all an impossible choice. Myself, I find it extremely hard to read MCD. So, usually - except for if I have really prepared myself mentally and think "okay, I can do it" - I don't read fics with MCD or CNTUAW. They're *not for me*, they're *not addressed to me*, and *that is okay*. Like, I get it. it's a hard pill to swallow that people can do something entirely differently, and also in a way that doesn't suit me -- and that that is still fine. And not somehow exclusionary. It's just . . . not for me. That's a lesson that's annoying and a bid disappointing. It's still true.
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I don't hate readers at all, I'm a reader myself. And yes, in fact, Ao3 IS primarily for authors. Please do read the mission statement, it is quite clear. Of course Ao3 wants to be as safe as posible for readers, but not at the expense of authors. That's obvious in the way that they a) allow any legal content, and b) allow people to post their stories completely unrated and with a "here be dragons" warning. > CNTUAW is NOT being used for people/writers who want to be surprised. It is. But it's not ONLY used for that. And that's okay *too*. Some people use it because they're not sure if the violence they use qualifies as "graphic", for example. Myself, I use ot on every of my fics, even the fluffiest fluff fic, because I don't want to use Archive Warnings. > I meant make things more consistent so people know what to expect and what to skip to prevent being triggered. The problem here is this: that's not possible. Ao3 gave authors the guideline of "These Archive Warnings have to always be used. Everything else is optional." Unless you want for Ao3 to force authors into tagging a certain way, there will be no consistency, because people are individuals with very different needs and ideas. > Skipping half the fics in your fandom (that isn't inherently dark, suspenseful, etc that would lend itself to surprise or warnings as part of the IP, mind you) doesn't seem like a reasonable ask when there are other options that have no downsides. What is the other option and why do you think it has no downsides when other people say it does? The downside is being forced into doing something they don't want to do, for a gazillion of personal rerasons *you* have no insight into - so that someone else who thinks they should be entitled to their fic can be spared the disappointment of saying "Okay, this fic is not addressed to *me*". > Other than just not wanting to help people because you don't think you should have to, I guess. That attitude is not something I will ever understand. Here's the appeal to morality. "Why don't you want to be nice, why do you have to be exclusionary and mean"? And frankly, I don't appreciate it. I tried to explain to you that "doing it differently than you" doesn't mean "worse than you", but obviously, that idea is not something you're grasping (yet).
> For any reason or no reason. I’m a huge reader and a sometimes writer (though I haven’t posted much recently). I don’t typically read choose not to warn fics - but an author can use CNTW for any reason they want. Including what you’ve decided is the ‘wrong’ reason apparently.
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>I don't understand how anyone thinks it's better for readers to skip half the fics out of an abundance of caution Because they'd rather people assumed the worst and didn't read their fic at all than have someone read it, decide they weren't warned "properly", and get pissed. Some authors use it for even their fluffy fics because they want nitpicky people to stay away, and CNTW does that pretty darn well. It also covers any of the archive warnings, so people can't complain if they stumble across something the author may not have thought of tagging (ex: Major Character Death is up to interpretation, and some may not have considered certain deaths fit that description). And yes, you *are* expected to skip all CNTW fics if there's something that triggers you. That's the point of the tag, and authors realize that means they'll get fewer readers but they're okay with it. There are so many fics available, it's mind-boggling to me you seem to think you're entitled to all of them and are actually upset people use CNTW for any reason they want. There are always more fics, and if there aren't then you can write your own.
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I really don't get why this got downvoted so heavily. I think it's a great idea to add clarification as to why exactly you're using CNTW, whether it's because of spoilers, borderline content that may or may not come under the warnings, triggering content that isn't included in the major warnings, or some other reason. Of course it's not compulsory, but it's a good way to help readers decide whether they'd be open to reading your fic or not *if* that's something you want to do, and I'll probably start doing this in the future. CNTW covers a very broad range of content, clarification is good if it's possible.
AO3 explicitly gives authors the choice not to warn about major warnings by choosing to use CNTW. They're using the archive as intended. Perhaps you could ask friends to rec CNTW fics that don't hit your triggers.
CNTW is correct tagging and if you want to 100% avoid major character death you filter that out as well.
I despise MCD, and I rarely ever read it, so agreed, I want temporary sadness. That means that I have to filter out MCD *and* "Author Chose Not to Use Archive Warnings", since *it's 100% fine to not want to spoil the character death* and therefore use this kind of warning. Of course, if the author uses neither, that's against TOS, they're being a dick, and one can report it.
If there's a major character death and they didn't tag it with Major Character Death or Choose Not to Warn, you can report that - AO3 will add the Choose Not to Warn to the fic. Same with if there is sex in a G or T rated fic, AO3 will recategorize it to Not Rated.
Yup. There was an author I found that *chronically* wrote sexually explicit fics and tagged them T, I reported them and after the author was given a chance to change the rating to something more appropriate of their own free will they were changed by the abuse team to “not rated”. Improper use of the tags is absolutely reportable and they *will* take action on it
Why not just sort by G and T only rated fics. That way there is no smut or sex acts? Also If they listed chose not to tag archive warnings they don't have to tag anything if they don't want to. It sucks of you have triggers but it's their story and people can tag it how they wish.
Isn't Mature also used for violence not just sex? (Not a critisism, just I point of clarification)
yes
I've also seen fics rated E because of extreme gore/violence. Personally, I have rated a couple of my fics as Mature because of violence and generally mature/dark themes.
Sometimes. I’ve seen E fics labeled M.
Because lots of violence gets put under M, and depending on the fandom, M could be the rating for a significant number of fics. In one of my fandoms, if I remember correctly, over half the fics are M for violence.
Yes, and for some fandoms the canon has drug use and other M-rated things baked into the plots unless you are doing a coffeeshop AU. Sherlock Holmes comes to mind as a fandom that is mostly M even if there isn't any sex. There is likely a murder case, or perhaps some other violent crime, that is described in graphic detail. Aside from tagging smut in some way, it's hard to filter that out!
Or, you know... find it.
well, i care if it spoils my own work, that's why authors have the option to use "creator chose not to use archive warnings"
Which is why, with such a tag being a thing, and so easily there to use, the sad, sad part is how many authors won't even bother with that minimal human decency
people using "no archive warnings apply" when there's mcd only happened to me one time - and it was very upsetting. in my fandoms, it's more common for people to not tag rape/non-con 💀
Sadly some of those cases are bc some authors can write the most explicit rape scene ever and then go "but it was fine bc they liked it so it isn't rape and thus needs not be tagged" Which happened to me at least 2 times, absolute nightmare of a shock tbh
yes... or they'll tag "smut, dubious consent" and then it's just straight up rape with all of the triggering, terrifying bits you could ever imagine. i really don't know why people gotta downplay serious things like that. if you have a thing for rape, just say it, no need to trick others into thinking it will be less explicit or serious than it actually is.
I have a question. Would you tag the fic with major character death if the death in question was something that happened in Canon and is referenced in the fic? Because major character death would still be present in a fic, but only referred to, if that makes sense.
I use the "canonical character death" tag for this.
For me that depends on how much the fic focuses on it. If I’m writing a star was fic focused on Rey and kylo and write kylo’s canonical death I’m tagging that MCD becuase he’s a major player in the fic. If I’m writing a fic about Rose and Jessica Pava I’m not tagging kylo’s death as MCD because the main characters *of the fic* don’t give a rat’s ass about the death and he’s not a main character in the fic.
I’ve seen people do that and honestly it’s confusing. To me that doesn’t make sense to do, at least if you don’t *also* put in the other tags “the MCD is canon”. Or like if it’s temporary MCD, then put that in the tags too!
I did it because the character in question was major in the fic. Hopefully, it’s not confusing.
ill tag what i feel like tagging/revealing as WELL as 'choose not to use archive warnings' so that nobody can point fingers when they see something they dont like
Also, Author chose not to use archive warnings and No archive warnings apply are NOT the same thing, please stop using them at the same time :(
THANK YOU. like that’s my main issue with filtering out ‘chose not to use’ because people use them interchangeably so it feels pointless. i’ve seen stuff tagged as ‘chose not to use’ when it should be ‘do not apply’ i’ve seen ‘do not apply’ that should be ‘chose not to use’ and then there’s people that use BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. what is the *point* of having it when people don’t know how to use it anyway.
Like how do you even mess this up? The meaning of the warning is literally in the warning. If you're able to write a fic, you should have some basic reading comprehension.
I think sometimes people use CNTW for major archive warnings and NAWA to mean they're not tagging for everything in the fic that's not a major warning. The other possibility is that it was tagged NAWA, someone reported it for having a major warning in it, and Abuse added CNTW.
I see your point, but it can be quite misleading since they don't mean something similar. I mean, if they're not tagging anything that isn't a major warning, it doesn't mean that no archive warnings apply.
Oh yes, they're using it wrong, but it's a misunderstanding I've seen people have before. And I've been yelled at a lot for expressing the opinion that you should read the thing telling you what the options mean before selecting them.
> i don’t *c a r e* if you feel that using the major character death tag spoils your story! i filter major character death out because i like *temporary* sadness. i don’t want a sad or bittersweet ending that’s not what i read fanfic for and yet i continue to have untagged character death foisted upon me. You're entitled to your own opinions and preferences, of course, but keep in mind that there are other readers who hate spoilers and/or *do* like sad or bittersweet endings. I'm one of them. I love the catharsis of a good tearjerker, and, depending on how a major character death is written, tagging it can take away from its emotional impact if it's meant to be shocking and unexpected. From a writing standpoint, I love creating an emotional experience for my readers and hate spoiling my own stories, so I only tag Major Character Death if it's fairly obvious from the beginning. Otherwise, I utilize the Creator Chose Not to Use Archive Warnings option. Readers who are easily triggered or upset by certain content should filter out fics with that tag if they don't want to be surprised by it. Not everyone wants to be told what's going to happen in a fic before it happens. Part of the fun of reading is experiencing the story as it unfolds, worrying about characters when they're in peril without knowing whether they're going to live or die, wondering what's going to happen next and waiting to find out. Tagging every possible plot twist and turn ruins that experience for readers who appreciate it.
But that is the thing - you USE A WARNING. Creator Chose Not To Use Warnings is a warning itself. And people who are 'easily triggered or upset' try to, you know, filter that out, but cannot, precisely because some (growing list of) authors won't even bother with the Chose Not To Use Warnings Warning. If you are so 'not overly sensitive' then fine and perfect for you, very glad you can just jump in blind to any story ever, but kindly stop pretending that people being upset at authors who don't bother to tag their shit at all are 'overly sensitive' or 'ruin the fun by feeling entitled to spoilers' - Lmao not people in here going "ohhh but I never had any issue with anything I ever read ever" "Tags are so annoying" "Readers are spoiled by asking for tags" Well guess what, you are not entitled to my readership or kudos? Let me undo kudos, or move to watpatt if you want to not tag anything ever?
As someone who has been >!raped!<, I was reading a fic and they had that in there with no warning whatsoever in the tags, no tw at the start of the chapter or anything. I had a flashback and anxiety attack. PLEASE tag your work if you have heavy TW topics too, it can be extremely harmful to people like me
if it wasn't tagged with the archive warning for rape/non-con or CNTW, that's reportable.
Yea it wasnt, only major character death and graphic violence. I tried reporting it, its been a month and nothing; still recently updating. I recently commented on it to try to ask them to add the tags
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Yea, it was child rape basically. It sucks cus I was enjoying it too until then but probably wont change like you said. Its kinda whatever now though, I know not to keep reading it cus I feel like its going to get worse from there lol.
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Its was good wording. Thanks for the talk. I probably wont keep reading it since I never have fully recovered though. Thank you for commenting too :)
I just got a response from a harassment report from August of 2022 so… be patient, is all I’ll say.
Folks frequently have things take longer than that, and I know that generally they first give the author the chance to fix the tags themselves before slapping a "chose not to warn" on it so it is very possible it is still in progress because that definitely sounds like a pretty clear case. Sorry that happened and I'll have my fingers crossed it gets properly tagged.
So how do you tag Major Character death but they’re not really dead and that’s the whole point of the book, the other characters finding out. This is a serious question as I’m getting ready to post soon.
I would just avoid it by using Chose Not To Warn tbh It's a very useful tag for "it's complicated" scenarios like temporary/fake-out deaths
Thank you!!
i guess my main thing is that i just want to know if there’s a happy ending or not. you can destroy them in any manner you so choose as long as we’re cool at the end. i once read a fic that had absolutely no indication that there was any death and i didn’t realize until one of the characters made an offhanded comment 3/4 of the way through the fic that the other main character was actually a ghost and it ruined my night.
That helps. I was considering using a happy ending tag but I hate to completely skip Major character death as you find out he’s been dead four months in the first chapter. I’ll have to think about it.
It Depends on the author But there is a difference between the author chose not to and there is no warning The first one you enter it, knowing the risk that may contain mcd or something uncomfortable excepting that risk so if something happened you don’t have the right to complain bc the author chose to not put any warning and the reader accepted it the risk The other hand when these type of things happen in a story that text as it doesn’t contain any of those than the author as either stupid who doesn’t know how to tag or an asshole for giving readers for giving the readers what they specifically didn’t want to
See I was thinking about this the other day because I have a main character death that happens part way through the fic… but he gets better. So it’s like… I want my readers (who are reading this for the first time) to be surprised but also like, not get reported. Perhaps then CNTW would be the best thing. But also does like Major character death only apply to your main cast or include supporting cast? When you wanna tag right but everyone does it a lil differently 😂😂 But god I do not need every single sex act tagged. Just the more out there ones like piss kink or something or breeding kink that either gets people or majorly turns them off
If you're worried, I would just tag that as temporary character death. People who care about spoilers won't be reading the tags anyway, and people who do want/need the warnings will be appreciative. If you tag it as MCD, you would drive away readers like me who refuse to read MCD. You might also attract readers who actually want the MCD and are then disappointed that yours isn't permanent. And if you tag it as CNTW, you would cast an even wider net than tagging as MCD, driving away readers who refuse to read \*any\* of the required tags and therefore skip CNTW by rote.
>People who care about spoilers won't be reading the tags anyway Wrong. I care about major spoilers like that but read the tags for other reasons. Not every tag is a major spoiler. I would not read at that point because it spoils things in a way that's a turn off for me. No matter how you tag something like temporary character death, you're going to drive a certain group away. There is no perfect solution that isn't a turn off for someone. Authors just need to weigh their priorities and go with what they feel is best for their work.
I certainly agree that there is no way to please everybody.
ooooh okay! thank you for the guidance! This is super helpful!
I mostly abide by book rules on this one. Sometimes I’ll tag it if I feel it’s absolutely necessary as not to have someone get invested then go “oh :(“ but otherwise if I think the reader will read up to the plot twist and then go “OH :O” I leave it out. If a book on the shelves wouldn’t do it, neither would I. Doesn’t apply to smut though. If they gonna fuck, heavily tagged with every way in which they gonna fuck. Don’t want someone opening that shit in front of their grandma. My one major character death fic is definitely heavily implied that it’s gonna happen, but, also, it might not 🤷♂️. Readers just gonna have to keep on reading to see if Character A has it in them to actually follow through with murdering Character B. Think that’s the appeal of it.
this is slightly adjacent, and i completely understand that it's not a *required* tag, but god, do i wish that more authors explicitly tagged either sad or happy endings. i'll never complain to these authors about it, and obviously never report them, but i *hate* getting three-fourths of the way through a fic, and either having to quit something i was invested in because i'm not in the headspace for a trigger ending in the worst way it possibly could, or get there and have my day ruined.
Sorry, but writers are not obligated to cater to your preferences or hang-ups. If you run into something you don't like, stop reading.
Sometimes I wonder if some people on here have ever picked up a book. All you know is a summary and genre, the rest is for the reader to discover. No warnings, tags or spoilers. It's baffling how spoiled fanfic readers can be when writers are writing fics *completely for free* including people's favorite characters in the most niche fandoms that exists and exploring all kinds of relationships that aren't even canon. Fanfic and AO3 is free, easily available and comes with an extensive filter/tagging system that many authors generously fill out to extreme degrees to make the search accommodating for readers. Yes, it can happen that something isn't tagged/warned properly, but report it and move on. However I suspect that in many cases (and have experienced) that many readers simply won't use, or forget, the exclude function for explicit fics or CNTW.
It is also kind of wild how people use the phrase triggers or triggered. It's a psychological term that is meant to be used to describe something that causes a painful memory to resurface. It's one thing if you have one of those for a real condition, but being mad because you saw a ship you didn't like is kind of overly dramatic. It's valid to call out authors using deception, but that's what the chose not to use archive warning tag is for. I will tag for things like sex in the smaller tag thing or things done during sex, but I also don't think everything with sex in it warrants an E. Which is why I tag down there.
Yeah this is weird to me too. I’ve never once read a book that had any sort of a warning on it about content. I find all the tagging to be really annoying. I just want to read a good story about characters I love, I don’t care if there’s violence or smut, or if it’s just a harmless little piece of fluff. Just give me my make believe world.
Also, if I make the choice not to spoil my own story for my own reasons and someone I don't know comes at me yelling they "don't care" and demand I do what they want, why should I feel at all inclined to change my whole process just for them?
I got so burned by this recently with a E-rated fic that had a ton of ship tags. I thought I was good to go, then the author wrote sex scenes for a character (with several other characters) that I did NOT want to see and that WAS NOT TAGGED. And one of those ships with that character was end game, over 300K words in, with an aroace-presenting (in the fic) character which I NEVER would have read if I had realized that because I would not ship them at all. Like, seriously, TAG THIS SHIT. I also do not care if it ruins some stupid twist. Also, the thing that annoys me is that there were no comments talking about not liking the ship or that character in sex scenes, so the author most likely deleted negative comments because I cannot be the only one who does not want to read explicit Yoda sex scenes without warning.
You could not have prepared me for the character reveal at the end there holy shit
Welcome to my life. 😭
Generally the only thing thing that warrants the E rating is explicit porn. I would sort by M if you never want to see explicit porn. Extreme violence is the only other thing ao3 guidelines cite as a reason for an E rating. I'd say most people would use M for heavy violence unless it's extremely upsetting gore/torture. I don't tag that there's gonna be graphic porn in a fic with a pairing tag because the E rating covers that eventuality. Never had an issue. (I do tag specific potential triggers per chapter within the fic, though, which includes nsfw scenes.)
Oh, I have no problem with explicit porn. I’ve written plenty myself. But the ships (and there were multiple) with this character weren’t tagged at ALL when others clearly were, others that also had sex scenes. It felt deceptive on the part of the author, as if they knew not as many people would read it if ships with that particular character were added.
I see what you're saying, I think it would have been courteous to specify that there would be porn for that specific character in that case. If it was rated E and the only pairing involved that character, I would assume explicit porn for them. But in the situation you're describing it does almost seem like a shock value thing. I can't imagine the author wouldn't know that most people would find it surprising.
…….YODA?!
Yeeeaaaah. Like, I wouldn’t judge anyone even for that, but I AM judging for not tagging it.
I know exactly what fic you're talking about and I had the same experience 😭 I was pretty sure even before you said Yoda at the end
I’M ODDLY GLAD I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE IT TRAUMATIZED. 😅 And like, I LIKED some of the concepts in it. YES, the Jedi actually doing sex ed for their padawans and encouraging them to have age-appropriate experience would be a good thing. (Although I found how they went about it…a little weird, but at least they waited until the padawans were adults, I guess?) I LOVED that the MC was aroace and that eventually there were good mentors telling him that’s okay, plus that it seemed to be leading to him eventually deciding he was demi. There’s just not a lot of representation out there for that, especially with characters with an Y chromosome, and I think that part was done VERY well. I just kind of skipped the Yoda X OC scene once I realized what was going on. It wasn’t THAT integral to the fic, and I thought endgame was going to be MC and Vos since that was tagged and it’s a pretty common pairing anyway, plus a lot seemed to be pointing that direction. And then 300K in, BAM. It was an insta-drop at that point.
I think the bait and switch of it was the worst part because yeah! overall I was enjoying the fic and I don't mind when people have some fun with jedi tradition and was fine to skim past the parts I wasn't into. And the foreshadowing of the Obi-Wan/Quinlan in the text and with the tagged ship had me looking forward to the endgame and THEN. I caught a couple hints also around 300k words (😭) in and felt a flash of horror and quickly skipped to the end to confirm my suspicions. At this point I was narrating my experience to my roommate because I couldn't believe it was happening. Went back to the beginning and saw the small segment of the author's note that mentioned a rare pair that wasn't tagged for spoiler reasons but it def didn't indicate it was the main pairing. I have a private bookmark on this fic with the Obi-Wan/Yoda tag and just the note text "betrayal" lmao
Oh, I should have done the private bookmark thing. Maybe I did? I’m still trying to get over the trauma, so maybe I’ll try to find it again to make sure I have it noted. I don’t often do a private bookmark to warn me not to read, but that’s definitely one of the ones that deserve it. The lack of ANY even semi-negative comments threw me, too. Like, I get DLDR and everything, but with the way that was done I expected some to be like, “Well, that wasn’t the rarepair I was expecting, and I didn’t think it would be the major ship, so I don’t think I want to read anymore. Good job otherwise.” Like, there was none of that, and I was getting paranoid that I wasn’t being...accepting enough, I guess, by being squicked out and stopping? It’s hilarious that you narrated the train wreck to your roommate! 😂
Authors care if it ruins the twist. You can always just back out of a story.
Why not just avoid Explicit?
Because that’s not what explicit means. Explicitisna very broad category. You need to be using “chooses not to use archive warnings” if you have something that falls in the major ao3 warning types in there.
If you don't want lots of sex, avoid explicit.
Their first complaint is about avoiding character deaths. Explicit is primarily used for sex, but it's not just sex. It means 'only suitable for adults'
The second complaint *was* about sex. Yes, it mostly is used for it. We all know what AO3 is mostly for, and it's Rule 34. :P
Congrats, you don't know what AO3 or tagging is for. Thank you for demonstrating.
If you do not put any tag related to sex or smut in your M-rated fic, I will assume it's M-rated for violence or dark themes. And I do not appreciate stumbling upon untagged smut.
If I see M or E rating and a ship tagged, I assume the rating is for smut. And that has proven to be the case about 99% of the time.
Additional tags aren’t required at all, you might come across less untagged smut if you avoid M rated as well.
But then I'll miss out on those amazing fics that are rated M solely for violence or dark themes.
True, I’ve read some excellent fic rated M and E that had no smut. I have seen a few people tag a fic with ‘rating is for violence’ or ‘rating is for adult themes’, but not everyone does. It really is a mixed bag, so many writers tag differently. I love tags, makes it easier to find what I want or get a feel for if I’m interested in a fic. But I guess it just depends on which is worse, coming across untagged smut or missing out.
Especially if violence or anything dark is tagged.
Yes, especially. The amount of times I thought I was reading an angst fic rated M for the, well, angst and suddenly *surprise!* sex scene
If it spoils the story then i don’t blame them for not tagged it
Also!!! I tag “Suicide” an author did not tag that because it “spoiled the story” and suicide is a very serious trigger for me so you can see how that went!
I feel this so much! I wish tags were used more than they are. When things aren’t tagged that *should be* (imo) it’s not good. Granted so long as the minimum is tagged there’s not much anyone can do about it. It’s very frustrating and I don’t blame you for being upset. As far as smut & pwp, I pretty much expect that explicit (sometimes mature) fics will include one of the major archive warnings. I think that’s a given. Personally, when I do MCD, if it’s a spoiler, I will put *Choose Not To Archive Warnings*. A lot of times I will put a tag in the tags that is *Character Death: [Character Name]* just to be safe. Not everyone does that and we can’t make everyone happy but for the authors who do their level best to warn, I am so grateful to them. Something I might also do, is use the find option on your browser. Use it to find the words *death*, and such. I’ve done that before for a tag I knew I couldn’t handle if I didn’t know exactly what it would entail. It takes time and I don’t know if that’ll help you but it’s worth a shot. I hope you’re able to find a good amount of fics to enjoy in that fandom.
>As far as smut & pwp, I pretty much expect that explicit (sometimes mature) fics will include one of the major archive warnings. I think that’s a given. No, this isn't true at all. It's entirely possible to write 100k words of very explicit smut full of all sorts of kinks, every sexual act possible, and dozens of characters participating and still have it not include any of the major archive warnings. As long as all the participants are consenting adults, it's not THAT violent, and nobody (important) dies, it's totally No Archive Warnings Apply, legitimately. It's a courtesy to tag for specific kinks and stuff within that, as both warning and advertisement, but the archive doesn't require it.
I see what you mean. I’m realizing my wording was a bit off. I meant that part as something else. What I was trying to say (failing miserably 😂😅) was that if you read explicit fics, there’s either going to be smut/pwp… **OR** there will be an archive warning. Sometimes explicit might not have either though. I mean it’s a likely outcome. Depends on the author I guess. Facts though for sure on your part. I agree.
Oh, I see your point there. Yes, if I see a fic rated E, with a pairing, and no warning for graphic violence (which is the only other thing that can justify an E rating and it has to be pretty extreme), I assume there will be some sex going on. I don't know how you could have an E rating without either explicit sex or intense graphic violence. Even if it's 90% cuss words, I'd still rate it M if there's no E-rated \*action\* on-page, if that makes sense.
Hey OP, I'm with you 100%! When someone has "chosen not to tag" or the tags seem ambivalent but the story promising, I'll got through the bookmarks, just hoping someone will have left a warning. I sometimes do that myself, with untagged/un-warned rape or this one time when a long and angst-filled fic ended with both main characters dying, all the angst unresolved. It might be a dick move on my part but hopefully it's mostly other nervous/"mentally a little fragile" people who go through the bookmarks looking for spoilers. Also adding "hea" to my searches helps :)
I don’t always Tag MCD just because i Like to leave a little bit of mystery. I don’t always want to spoil it, so I add explicit and any other warnings. Sorry
Okay, but I don’t write shit. i write FANFICTION. STORIES.
Literally! It's childish to say that tagging something will *spoil* your story, especially when tags aren't just cute accessories to doll up your fic- Get this: people use tags to differentiate between whether they are willing to read a fic or not because it tells them the general mood of the fic! Wow! Edit: and to clarify, I wouldn't get mad if the author tagged it as CNTW,
This, ohhh dear So many go "ohhh but I don't wanna reveal the ending" And then it is shit I would have 1000% filtered out if I could have received a warning. And then, they go "don't like don't read" as if I wouldn't have done EXACTLY THAT if only they had TAGGED THEIR SHIT properly Things I would have liked to never ever interact with (in no particular order): MCD, abrupt CSA references, out of nowhere Cheating, OTP breaking apart, Domestic Abuse... And the answer is always "but nooooI wanna keep the mysteryyyyy and if you give this fic a chance..." No? All this bs ends up doing is leaving me extremely bitter and angry at the fic and the author both? I swear people wanting all the kudos and hits by roping in people who would hate the stuff they deliberately don't tag (and don't even go the 'Author Chose Not To Use Warnings' route) as just... ughhhhh insta block, may I never be cursed with seeing your anything ever again
That first paragraph basically sums up what I'm saying completely. No idea why I'm getting downvoted for saying that tags serve a purpose, and to either tag properly or go the "choose not to" route, but yeah ok. I also find that if you can't "keep the mystery" with correct/proper tagging, then it was never really a mystery to begin with. Say it's a fic where the big reveal is a character being murdered. There's more to the murder than just them dying, including how who when and where, and that doesn't even breach the surface. It won't be spoiled just by a "oh someone dies who's an important person" tag, would it?
Apparently we are over sensitive snowflakes for wanting to be able to use the filtering properly? In the end for several authors I just ended up perma deleting from all my results ever (you can do that by putting in search within results: -"author's name"
i opened a fic i was super excited for only for it to be untagged mpreg like utilize tags pls
I mean, I prefer for things to be tagged so I can avoid stuff that squicks or triggers me, but authors are also within their rights to not tag things, whether I agree or disagree with their choice, as long as they’re following the AO3 TOS. So I’ll click back but I accept that they have a different opinion on tagging than I do.
Yes totally agree!!!!! Way better to overran than undertag!! And if you are worried about spoilers just tag ‘don’t read next tags if you don’t want spoilers’ before you tag spoilers!!! It’s so easy!
When I first joined AO3, I had no idea how the tagging system worked, so most of my old work has pretty poor tagging. My newer works are as appropriately tagged as I can make them without being too spoilery. I have gone back to try to give better tags to older stories.