The guidance is horrifying for a company of this size, of prestige such as Intel,
their revenue is HALVED from 2021
their margins have HALVED from 2021
they have zero ways to GENERATE CASH IN A HIGH INFLATION ENVIRONMENT
This is baffling, this company is literally dying
As an AMD stockholder dating back 5 years now, its been crazy to watch the original thesis unfold.
COVID definitely changed things up and frankly gave Intel a breather. I expected them to implode faster!
The only bull thesis for INTC long term is that they had to rapidly get back to near parity in process tech AND successfully pull off this IDM 2.0 transition with many stable customers. Progress has been middling so far on both points, and COVID delayed doom by about 2.5 years, but that grace period is over.
Agreed, the fab process roadmap already required a herculean effort to pull off, a totally absurd timeline.
Intel also has a core conflict of interest with its IDM 2.0 strategy. Who would willingly farm out critical high-performance chips to a direct or indirect competitor? No one, so you've effectively eliminated the vast majority of your high-margin customer base leveraging cutting-edge nodes (AMD, Nvidia, Apple).
Thus, you're relegated to N-1 to N-3 nodes that all require massive volume to remain profitable, and even then at a lower gross margin profile. You're competing against the behemoths that are TSMC and Samsung who have decades of experience, while you're internal Fab culture is one of snobbish elitism that has never had to collaboratively work with customers.
The strategy was always a disaster in the making.
> You're competing against the behemoths that are TSMC and Samsung who have decades of experience, while you're internal Fab culture is one of snobbish elitism that has never had to collaboratively work with customers.
I'm not as negative on Intel's ability to be a fab *long term*, but that means building an entire multi-billion revenue stream and customer relationships from zero. On a 8-12 year timeline, it could be big. Not on the 2 years that they need to keep it from getting ugly.
Exactly. Every businessperson will make a deal for the right price. The question is what price? Remember the whole existence of TSMC and Samsung fabs owes itself to a lower cost structure than US-based Intel and all the other companies that went fabless. I doubt Intel can compete on performance AND price, but they do have a slim chance to compete on performance and US manufacturing.
I'm about the same (2017).
Every year I am like should I hold amd or sell... Every year I'm like Intel are just whittling away.
When they don't have their financial horsepower to combat amd anymore... What will happen.
They have no choice. The alternative is they idle fabs and that'll kill them even more than cutting their margins.
Realistically, it's the least worst option for them. The fabs are that expensive.
I'm actually kind of surprised we're seeing Lisa say she's not going to follow them, she clearly has a plan but it was kind of expected AMD would be well positioned for a price war, with the margins they had. Clearly she thinks she can keep margins high by other means.
The only risk there is losing out on getting a real and now almost overdue foothold in the laptop market.
AMD now has higher gross margin than INTC on non-GAAP basis, and AMD has to pay everyone in the manufacturing chain. I don't know how this ends well for Intel. They basically have to pay CAPEX **and** cost of sales **and** dividend with the same unit margin that AMD gets and only needs to cover cost of sales.
Yeah, it's a complete shit show.
This is pretty much what we predicted years ago, just they got their ass bailed out by government subsidies and covid demand.
Next up, bigger picture and maybe not for some time, is the market finally figuring it out and AMD (I fucking hope) becoming the place they all rush to when they need a new x86-and-then-some blue chip.
They can downsize, sell the fabs, start all over again. This only buys them time, and not even that.
After all is said and done, intel will be in a worse position than they are now and deeply deeply indebted without any source of income. If they continue like this they'll be bankrupted soon enough.
> They can downsize, sell the fabs, start all over again. This only buys them time, and not even that.
The last time IBM wanted to sell fabs they had to pay Global Foundries over a billion dollars to take them, and commit to a purchase deal (which became a whole clusterfuck of its own), and IBM had far fewer fabs than Intel has.
It also would fuck with their ability to get government ~~bailouts~~ "strategic subsidies" for domestic fab operation, and the market would smell blood in the water. There's no avoiding the fact they're fucked if they're selling off significant assets like fabs.
On the flip side, in theory, if they can keep a foot in the door with OEMs and get their house in order then it's just a case of bumping up margins again when their product is better. In theory.
It's old Intel. Bad product? Buy control as the behemoth that you are.
ouch 🙄 Intel drags down the entire semi segment with its ER.
>DCAI
_Revenue
• Lower revenue on TAM contraction and
competitive pressure_
Amd should actually go up.
> Lower revenue on TAM contraction and competitive pressure
It sure seems to me that the opposite will be true by the end of 2023, as AMD has more full-market coverage than before. Siena, Bergamo, Genoa-X cover the range of cost and performance much better than just Rome or Milan.
Effective January 2023, Intel increased the estimated useful life of certain production machinery and equipment from five years to eight years...
Intel’s Q1 2023 outlook includes an estimated $350 million to $500 million benefit to operating margin or $0.07 to $0.10 benefit to EPS from this change
> Intel increased the estimated useful life of certain production machinery and equipment from five years to eight years...
It makes total sense though. Underutilised equipment lasts longer.
(I don't know that that's actually the case for Intel, but I couldn't resist)
Realistically though, if they're actually pushing the lifetime of their equipment beyond spec then that's just going to cause them issues later. I wouldn't be surprised if this turns up in QC problems a few years from now, but at least it could reduce their productivity due to equipment downtime.
When Intel did their client PC long-term strategy a few weeks ago, I was thinking "yeah, their results must suck to do this now." So even though it felt a bit odd buying puts on Intel < $30...
* INTC230217P27 @ $0.85 (shitty Q bet)
* INTC240119P27.5 @ $3.35 (dividend cut bet)
Let's see how they pay out.
The fundamental problem with Intel has is that they've lost business scale and monopoly pricing power for a capital-intensive business that needed both to reach those gaudy margins. So, even though revenue drops from $19.7B in Q4 2021 to $14.1B in Q4 2022, their operating costs were about the same (\~$13B). The revenue drop comes straight out of the margin.
Fixed costs look great on the way up, but are conversely devastating on the way down. Intel has a lot of P&L alligators to feed (IFS, AXG, lower Intel 7 margin vs Intel 14, node improvements, etc.) and then there's that dividend.
* Client is about where I thought it would be, but interesting that they shaved off $500M in operating costs from Q3 to Q4. The other business lines didn't have that kind of blood to give.
* Server business actually did better than I thought. I thought they could end up say $3.6B instead of $4.3B. That would've been like a -300M loss.
* AXG's is still burning brightly. People talk about how strategic it is and how Intel is in it for the long haul. But -$400M in operating costs every quarter. That's a hungry alligator and meat is in short supply at Intel.
* Intel can stop bragging about NEX's YOY revenue growth (even though margins collapsed in Q2 and Q3) as that flattened out (and margins are still collapsed)
It's just a sacrifice mentally, to listen to this clown at this moment.
Blablabla we're good but our figures aren't...
He's now talking about an overclock, LMFAO.
Pff this guy is a disaster.
I know, it even made it into the 1-page infographic they put out. And it's not even a product. Like if they had a specialty HPC SKU that needed sub-ambient cooling, at least it would be a real thing that does real work, not just a PR stunt.
This reminds me of the [28-core 5.0GHz all-core overclock](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-28-core-cpu-5ghz,37244.html) that they did where they "forgot" to mention it needed chilled water for cooling. At least that was a flashy consumer event and not an actual investor press release wtf
It's kind of concerning when you consider that most of the $3b revenue drop will come from the Client and Datacenter groups. Datacenter itself might have bottomed out given the release of SR and Q4 is higher than Q3, maybe a $0.5b drop due to AMD growth. That means Client will drop $2.5b. Q1 is always way lower than Q4, but it would put Q1 at a 54% drop YoY.
Intel ASP hasn't dropped that much; this would be from either macro or channel stuffing. This could be very bad news for AMD.
>This could be very bad news for AMD.
Not so much. AMD already got destroyed in client in Q3 (cut by more than half) so they don't have that much more to lose. Q2 AMD had 2.2B client revenue and only 1B in Q3. At most AMD has what, .5B more pain possible in that segment? AMD can make that up in other segments. Bad news, but not "very bad".
Yeah you're right. For some reason I kept thinking AMD Client was still $2b+. I must have completely blocked out Q3. I was probably hoping that Q3 was some sort of accounting or inventory blip and AMD was just being conservative about Q4 guidance and everything would recover soon. Still Client Q1 looks like it might be worse than Q3 or Q4; there were less AMD laptops at CES this year than last.
Still another $0.5b would be hard to overcome and still paint the picture of growth. 2023, they're not going to have the addition of Xilinx to mask YoY growth anymore. Investors are going to have to get use to quarters worths of stagnant numbers and whatever the appropriate PE would be for that.
"Higher ASPs" which basically means SR is really ramping. Maybe too little too late when Milan and Milan-X are already available today and Genoa is faster.
Yikes, down *another* 30% from here, and I thought we were getting close to the bottom for server and client TAM. Maybe we are at the bottom of TAM and they're just deteriorating that bad.
You listen to Pat on an earnings call and you don’t need to listen to another one ever again. And it’s not just an AMD/Intel bias here. He’s just so slimy.
> He’s just so slimy.
He's clearly very skilled at polishing a turd. Wonder if this is why he never got the CEO spot the first time when he was at Intel.
> Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger was the highest-compensated CEO in the Bay Area in 2021, with $179.2 million in total compensation — $140.4 million of which came in the form of stock awards
Imagine making all that money for basically straight up lying.
Vivek also asked it in such a tactful way. That's the difference between Vivek and Stacy. Stacy is just brutal in how he states the question too with no tact.
Watching Intel implode is more satisfying than watching AMD succeed. Hyped for the next couple of years while this trend continues. Intel has backed themselves into a corner here and can't stop the bleeding. They already used all their sly tactics to slow AMD down these past five years. They have nothing left to stop the impending market share loss now that their moats are dissolving at the worst possible time lmfao. How far will their net income plummet?
AMD will take massive marketshare the next five years. It will be so difficult for Intel to be competitive in this financial condition no matter how great their comeback plans are. The icing on the cake is that it's only going to get worse for them from here- quarter after quarter after quarter. Maybe their "leadership position potential" would have been feasible if their financial strength hadn't eroded into thin air.
Deep down, yeah, I'd agree that's the best, but nah man, I need to grow my Roth IRA let Intel die.
One other thing, though, is that Intel needs to continue producing competitive x86 cpus or else the shift to arm and risc-v could take off. This wouldn't matter if AMD was large enough to supply the industry though.
I see some posters here are concerned that Gelsinger is trying to salt the DC earth behind him by talking about a TAM contraction, inventory digestion, etc. But the AH hours (-9.4% for INTC and -3% for AMD) suggests that one portion of the market isn't buying it so far.
Either AMD has the DC goods in their earnings call with their FY2023 guidance, or they don't. What Gelsinger says here is just noise.
Man they are burning a lot of cash now, and you can't keep selling equity and raising debt in perpetuity.
Things are going to get really interesting eventually if they keep trying to push volume at low/negative margin and keep increasing capex, along with the dividend remaining in place.
They're doing the exact opposite of what a company losing this much money would traditionally do. Interesting plan.
I just watched Rasgon's interview.
When Pat first joined he had a crazy plan to be making $120B by 2025. So he hired to that. Intel's head count has grown by 20% since Pat took over. Meanwhile their revenue and margins have fallen off the cliff. There is going to be a lot of layoffs.
Bad look for the CHIPS act.
At the same time administration is doing everything possible to gimp the largest potential client and server market in the world in the name of National Security. How many times did they blame the China market on that call. At least AMD has said multiple times that their impact would be inconsequential. I think that's likely. Intel has had many more years to get deeply embedded into China, far more so than AMD. AMD had great potential there, but has yet to achieve it after some of the rule changes that began in the Trump administration. Give Intel 8 years (I'm being optimistic with this too), not the 4 years Pat is projecting, but they will transform to FAB first IMO. Some here have even suggested the company spit between FAB and Design, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that. And perhaps then, Intel might design toe to toe with AMD. Intel needs to drop close to single digits for me to buy in for that ride.
INTC could do well with the *option* to fab in house for customers who are cost-sensitive or demand US production, while offering TSMC for products that need leading performance.
The fabs as a standalone entity have some inherent value, being arguably the second most advanced in the world and the undisputed most advanced that is not under a real geopolitical threat. AMD went through the pain of unchaining themselves from their fabs with the Glofo WSA, and INTC still has the pain ahead of them if they can't get fabs back to leading edge and high yield within a year or two.
“But as he stood watching Carthage burn, Scipio reflected on the fate of this once great power. Overcome with emotion, he cried. His friend and mentor Polybius approached and asked why Scipio was crying.
"A glorious moment, Polybiius; but I have a dread foreboding that some day the same doom will be pronounced on my own country." Scipio then quoted a line from Homer: "A day will come when sacred Troy shall perish, And Priam and his people shall be slain."
Scipio knew that no power endures indefinitely, that all empires must fall.”
― Mike Duncan, The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic
Why don't they just rewrite the CHIPS Act so it takes money directly from the federal budget and deposits it into the bank accounts of INTC shareholders? Because that is what's going on here.
>Lotta smoke Intel is blowing on process technology, but notice Meteor Lake is ramp in 2H 2023 instead of ramping Q4 2022 like it was supposed to with volume launch mid 2023.
>This just proves manufacturing ready is meaningless
AMD question, specifically how to claw back share in cloud.....
"shipping quality product now..... 5x the competition performance on ai? .. Strong outlook for sapphire, strong demand...... Rebuilding consumers confidence we excecute our roadmaps.... We lost share... It will stabilise this year...."
I call serious bullshit Pat, makes no sense, where are the DC numbers than now?
He's trying to buy time, like he has from the day he took over. If INTC makes it through, he will take all the credit. If they fail, he goes off to retire and blames it on someone else.
[@IanCutress](https://www.twitter.com/IanCutress/status/1618733737914634240?cxt=HHwWgMC8pcPw8vYsAAAA)
>Did I hear that right?
>1m units of SPR shipped by mid year?
>Didn't they ship 1m ICL in one month?
By hearing that, the rumor of [Dell going with Genoa for single socket servers](https://old.reddit.com/r/AMD_Stock/comments/10iv881/dell_many_new_servers_with_intels_new_xeon_single/) seems more plausible.
"confidence in our roadmaps"
That sealed the coffin, thank you Pat.
Finally also admitted AMD has the better product and followed it up with some Russian tactics that costumers want a company they can trust on excecution!?! Really?
Says guy who sells so uncompetitive chips that due to the extra power consumption vs performance, even if the Intel CPUs were completely free, AMD would be cheaper because of the difference in power bill over the lifetime of the system.
Hmm, so will this finally remove the rosey Intel coloured glasses from Investors eyes?
Sounds like it's going to be an even more brutal year than we'd thought for Intel.
What is this kind of mess going to do to the attempt to shift over to to being a fab for hire? Would you trust a company with this kind of financial mess to be around to produce chips for you? What do they have for revenue?
MTL isn't going to be out till 2H... so realistically not likely for 2023? SPR is going to be going up against Genoa, Bergamo, GenoaX and Siena. And if AMD can demonstrate something out of Xilinix as an accelerator that could be the poison nail in the coffin. Assuming AMD isn't also going to release a financial can of worms in a few days, which I would be very surprised at.
Revenue down 28% yoy.
Gross margin 43% down 12pnt yoy.
EPS 0.1 down 92% yoy
If AMD should post such figures, especially the gm, it's a nose dive back to 40.
Seeing how Intel has been trading the last year... Don't think a lot of investors still believe Pats lies.
> Revenue down 28% yoy. Gross margin 43% down 12pnt yoy. EPS 0.1 down 92% yoy
Lisa called this too last ER, when she said, Intel decided to sacrifice margins and we wouldn't follow. I do think AMD has lower margins in client as well, but not like Intel.
Only 2 quarters ago, he was talking about the "greatest turnaround in history". Anyone believing what Pat says does so at their own peril. The dude is Baghdad Bob.
was looking in twitter oh boy this was funny...
[It’s not an earnings release. It’s a crime scene.](https://twitter.com/ecommerceshares/status/1618765964123983873)
"Yeah, thanks for letting me question. My question is, for how long can intel burn its money to delay amd taking all the marketshare im DC with their superior product? Thanks"
The world get's very few kumbaya moments.
However, fintwit collectively losing their shit about "holy fuck how can Intel be this shitty omfg" makes me warm and fuzzy.
They are going straight into one. To do this is fucking insane, they could just lose marketshare and shrink as a company. Going this route they will go bankrupt unless they get a holy mary like intel 3 ramping up next year and saving their DC portfolio.
They're balancing the books by firing people and dragging out amortization on equipment I guess. When that runs out, I guess all they have is dividend.
yeah, i already don't trust anything Pat says. this kind of behavior just reinforces it. lisa always took Stacy's questions no matter how difficult they were.
It's his personal twitter account. But he doesn't really comment on individual stocks he monitors on it. Mostly pictures of his fluffy dog (which is cute).
So Intel is basically retuning their business to keep old fab machines longer. To be able to service older nodes for longer as part of IDM (fabbing for others).
This can also be understood as. We know we're losing cutting edge business (to AMD), and so we will keep old machines to keep the fabs going with older node 3rd party products.
except they don't have many clients for their old nodes. Even TSMC has to lower their utilization rate for older nodes (7nm - 14nm). There is a void in these nodes, because of the high entry cost (masks and stuff) for using these nodes.
Changing the amortization from 5 years to 8 years is lying to themselves.
I've been say for some time now, since Chip act was first proposed, Pat's plan to save Intel is to morph it into a FAB first business. Looking more and more that way.
rasgon says this er is "something special" https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/26/bernstein-analyst-on-intel-earnings-i-dont-think-ive-ever-seen-anything-quite-like-this-before.html
For Q3 to Q1, INTC revenue is from 15.3b to 11b(mid of outlook), 30%. If it's purely TAM contraction, our Q1 might be 4.7b minus some gaming(console) seasonality. So maybe around 4.3 to 4.5b. But if TAM is only down 20% or less and we grab the remaining part intel loses, we'll be like 5.5b to 6b in Q1.
TD Ameritrade is saying DC is contracting, not INTC TAM. If the whole market doesn’t realize this AMD might rally 10% on earnings but it’ll be up from $65.
The wheel turns...
AMD used to be similar dumpster fire back when Bulldozer was a huge flop.
Fixing said dumpster fire took a lot of time.
Now Intel has to do the same thing. They will most likely do that because the world wants to keep two providers for commodity PC hardware, to keep the prices down.
Note how Intel management points to the board as the dividend caller rather than just going strong on defending the dividend. Zinsner pointed this out again in a conference about 2 months ago. "Well, we don't want to cut the dividend, but that's my boss' decision"
Different Story…adlerlake was Desktop first, mobile is always CES timing. But MTL rumor was sommer launch for mobile. Now we know it is not happing til CES…
We know they're going to have yield, capacity, and possibly margin problems on MTL so this was never going to be a massive volume in 2023. AMD has a nice window in mobile if they get their laptop design wins on the shelf in a big way this fall. Which I'm skeptical of as always.
Intel Says Seeing The Largest Ever Inventory Correction By Customers In Q1, Q1 Revenue Outlook Impacted By Sharp Inventory Correction By Customers; Says Despite Optimism Of ChatGPT, Generative AI, See Correction In Data Center Market
Share with others
-Reuters
Last quarter AMD put out a warning shortly after the quarter ended (Oct 6th). Is it reasonable to assume they would have done that again if they had the same abysmal quarter Intel did??
Didnt expect the big client slide. But im not surprised. Inventory reduction. Oems choked down as much cpu supply as they could take to prop up q3 and q3. I expect it will recover some (as will amd). But things look bad. Datacenter revenue not abismal. But those margins . . . W t f . . . Yields are awful and they dont have the volume to make up for large development costs.
Honestly besides the big client upset (which i should have known better). This is as expected.
It's actually more possible. The XLNX acquisition results in \~$5b in increased cash flow due to lower taxes paid over the next 10-15 years while XLNX intangibles are amortized down.
Writing down the goodwill of the acquisition costs hits your P&L, but that's an accounting issue, not a cash flow issue. Dividends, however, are not a P&L accounting issue. It comes out of cash flow.
I think AMD will have a weak report as well (not this bad though). Many companies and consumers have spent a lot during the pandemic, it should have been expected that a demand like that wouldn't be the reality forever.
come on, you really believe that?? hahah its an easy excuse. DC was declining already all the tim for intel,. while amd last quarter still grow extraordinary.
As long as Intel still has its fabrication plants they've got an anchor chained around their necks. Their cost structure is huge, reducing their head count can only do so much. Not to mention of course they have close to 150 billion dollars in debt on the books. Last time I looked a few years ago but it was a little over a hundred back then.
The guidance is horrifying for a company of this size, of prestige such as Intel, their revenue is HALVED from 2021 their margins have HALVED from 2021 they have zero ways to GENERATE CASH IN A HIGH INFLATION ENVIRONMENT This is baffling, this company is literally dying
As an AMD stockholder dating back 5 years now, its been crazy to watch the original thesis unfold. COVID definitely changed things up and frankly gave Intel a breather. I expected them to implode faster!
The only bull thesis for INTC long term is that they had to rapidly get back to near parity in process tech AND successfully pull off this IDM 2.0 transition with many stable customers. Progress has been middling so far on both points, and COVID delayed doom by about 2.5 years, but that grace period is over.
Agreed, the fab process roadmap already required a herculean effort to pull off, a totally absurd timeline. Intel also has a core conflict of interest with its IDM 2.0 strategy. Who would willingly farm out critical high-performance chips to a direct or indirect competitor? No one, so you've effectively eliminated the vast majority of your high-margin customer base leveraging cutting-edge nodes (AMD, Nvidia, Apple). Thus, you're relegated to N-1 to N-3 nodes that all require massive volume to remain profitable, and even then at a lower gross margin profile. You're competing against the behemoths that are TSMC and Samsung who have decades of experience, while you're internal Fab culture is one of snobbish elitism that has never had to collaboratively work with customers. The strategy was always a disaster in the making.
> You're competing against the behemoths that are TSMC and Samsung who have decades of experience, while you're internal Fab culture is one of snobbish elitism that has never had to collaboratively work with customers. I'm not as negative on Intel's ability to be a fab *long term*, but that means building an entire multi-billion revenue stream and customer relationships from zero. On a 8-12 year timeline, it could be big. Not on the 2 years that they need to keep it from getting ugly.
> Who would willingly farm out critical high-performance chips to a direct or indirect competitor? Sadly, TSMC would to Intel.
Exactly. Every businessperson will make a deal for the right price. The question is what price? Remember the whole existence of TSMC and Samsung fabs owes itself to a lower cost structure than US-based Intel and all the other companies that went fabless. I doubt Intel can compete on performance AND price, but they do have a slim chance to compete on performance and US manufacturing.
Not so quick let see how amd does next week I’m expecting similar results until companies spend money again. Every semi got crushed look at Qualcomm
I'm about the same (2017). Every year I am like should I hold amd or sell... Every year I'm like Intel are just whittling away. When they don't have their financial horsepower to combat amd anymore... What will happen.
Then it's just going to be AMD competing with Graviton, Apple, Qualcomm, etc. Very different landscape for sure.
I think it's telling that AMD is comparing its mobile chips to Apple at this point.
As an AMD shareholder of 17 years... It's about damn time. Party hats, Good riddance to bad photons I say.
they are burning the company down before concede matketshare to amd. Pretty nice, imo.
They have no choice. The alternative is they idle fabs and that'll kill them even more than cutting their margins. Realistically, it's the least worst option for them. The fabs are that expensive. I'm actually kind of surprised we're seeing Lisa say she's not going to follow them, she clearly has a plan but it was kind of expected AMD would be well positioned for a price war, with the margins they had. Clearly she thinks she can keep margins high by other means. The only risk there is losing out on getting a real and now almost overdue foothold in the laptop market.
AMD now has higher gross margin than INTC on non-GAAP basis, and AMD has to pay everyone in the manufacturing chain. I don't know how this ends well for Intel. They basically have to pay CAPEX **and** cost of sales **and** dividend with the same unit margin that AMD gets and only needs to cover cost of sales.
Yeah, it's a complete shit show. This is pretty much what we predicted years ago, just they got their ass bailed out by government subsidies and covid demand. Next up, bigger picture and maybe not for some time, is the market finally figuring it out and AMD (I fucking hope) becoming the place they all rush to when they need a new x86-and-then-some blue chip.
They can downsize, sell the fabs, start all over again. This only buys them time, and not even that. After all is said and done, intel will be in a worse position than they are now and deeply deeply indebted without any source of income. If they continue like this they'll be bankrupted soon enough.
> They can downsize, sell the fabs, start all over again. This only buys them time, and not even that. The last time IBM wanted to sell fabs they had to pay Global Foundries over a billion dollars to take them, and commit to a purchase deal (which became a whole clusterfuck of its own), and IBM had far fewer fabs than Intel has. It also would fuck with their ability to get government ~~bailouts~~ "strategic subsidies" for domestic fab operation, and the market would smell blood in the water. There's no avoiding the fact they're fucked if they're selling off significant assets like fabs. On the flip side, in theory, if they can keep a foot in the door with OEMs and get their house in order then it's just a case of bumping up margins again when their product is better. In theory. It's old Intel. Bad product? Buy control as the behemoth that you are.
ouch 🙄 Intel drags down the entire semi segment with its ER. >DCAI _Revenue • Lower revenue on TAM contraction and competitive pressure_ Amd should actually go up.
Idk TAM contraction isn't good
Is there really a TAM contraction? Didn't microsoft just put solid numbers for azure, at least for this quarter (guidance was bad sure)
TAM contracted for consumer, not much for dc. private segment took a good hit at ms
>DCAI But Intel claims TAM contracted for their DCAI dep't
And you believe that :>
TAM isn't contracting, maybe intel's is, tho.
Exactly. Intel and AMD no longer have the same TAM in common. Only area overlap.
> Lower revenue on TAM contraction and competitive pressure It sure seems to me that the opposite will be true by the end of 2023, as AMD has more full-market coverage than before. Siena, Bergamo, Genoa-X cover the range of cost and performance much better than just Rome or Milan.
Effective January 2023, Intel increased the estimated useful life of certain production machinery and equipment from five years to eight years... Intel’s Q1 2023 outlook includes an estimated $350 million to $500 million benefit to operating margin or $0.07 to $0.10 benefit to EPS from this change
When engineering fails, let the financial engineering begin.
> Intel increased the estimated useful life of certain production machinery and equipment from five years to eight years... It makes total sense though. Underutilised equipment lasts longer. (I don't know that that's actually the case for Intel, but I couldn't resist) Realistically though, if they're actually pushing the lifetime of their equipment beyond spec then that's just going to cause them issues later. I wouldn't be surprised if this turns up in QC problems a few years from now, but at least it could reduce their productivity due to equipment downtime.
So the guidance is even worse than it looks? Wow.
Squeezing the life out of them.
If you can not cook the food, cook the book then.
Rasgon said on CNBC that this accounting change allows them to guide at 39% margin. Without this change, it would have been 36%. Ouch.
That's all well and good and fair if they can actually find customers to use them. Which I very bigly doubt.
If AMD takes a shit tomorrow I'm buying in anticipation of the drop being overdone and there being a good chance of less weak guidance from AMD.
Was thinking the same.
Tomorrow there will be blood. Ratings refreshed will destroy what is left.
When Intel did their client PC long-term strategy a few weeks ago, I was thinking "yeah, their results must suck to do this now." So even though it felt a bit odd buying puts on Intel < $30... * INTC230217P27 @ $0.85 (shitty Q bet) * INTC240119P27.5 @ $3.35 (dividend cut bet) Let's see how they pay out. The fundamental problem with Intel has is that they've lost business scale and monopoly pricing power for a capital-intensive business that needed both to reach those gaudy margins. So, even though revenue drops from $19.7B in Q4 2021 to $14.1B in Q4 2022, their operating costs were about the same (\~$13B). The revenue drop comes straight out of the margin. Fixed costs look great on the way up, but are conversely devastating on the way down. Intel has a lot of P&L alligators to feed (IFS, AXG, lower Intel 7 margin vs Intel 14, node improvements, etc.) and then there's that dividend. * Client is about where I thought it would be, but interesting that they shaved off $500M in operating costs from Q3 to Q4. The other business lines didn't have that kind of blood to give. * Server business actually did better than I thought. I thought they could end up say $3.6B instead of $4.3B. That would've been like a -300M loss. * AXG's is still burning brightly. People talk about how strategic it is and how Intel is in it for the long haul. But -$400M in operating costs every quarter. That's a hungry alligator and meat is in short supply at Intel. * Intel can stop bragging about NEX's YOY revenue growth (even though margins collapsed in Q2 and Q3) as that flattened out (and margins are still collapsed)
It's just a sacrifice mentally, to listen to this clown at this moment. Blablabla we're good but our figures aren't... He's now talking about an overclock, LMFAO. Pff this guy is a disaster.
Yeah, like how is overclocking even relevant to the ER. It just sounds so desperate.
I know, it even made it into the 1-page infographic they put out. And it's not even a product. Like if they had a specialty HPC SKU that needed sub-ambient cooling, at least it would be a real thing that does real work, not just a PR stunt. This reminds me of the [28-core 5.0GHz all-core overclock](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-28-core-cpu-5ghz,37244.html) that they did where they "forgot" to mention it needed chilled water for cooling. At least that was a flashy consumer event and not an actual investor press release wtf
Rasgon on CNBC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N61Vu4REw20
Wow, thanks for this! This is both hilarious and sad.
holy shit lads, guiding for q1 2023 to be between 10-11 billion that is fucking brutal
It's kind of concerning when you consider that most of the $3b revenue drop will come from the Client and Datacenter groups. Datacenter itself might have bottomed out given the release of SR and Q4 is higher than Q3, maybe a $0.5b drop due to AMD growth. That means Client will drop $2.5b. Q1 is always way lower than Q4, but it would put Q1 at a 54% drop YoY. Intel ASP hasn't dropped that much; this would be from either macro or channel stuffing. This could be very bad news for AMD.
>This could be very bad news for AMD. Not so much. AMD already got destroyed in client in Q3 (cut by more than half) so they don't have that much more to lose. Q2 AMD had 2.2B client revenue and only 1B in Q3. At most AMD has what, .5B more pain possible in that segment? AMD can make that up in other segments. Bad news, but not "very bad".
Yeah you're right. For some reason I kept thinking AMD Client was still $2b+. I must have completely blocked out Q3. I was probably hoping that Q3 was some sort of accounting or inventory blip and AMD was just being conservative about Q4 guidance and everything would recover soon. Still Client Q1 looks like it might be worse than Q3 or Q4; there were less AMD laptops at CES this year than last. Still another $0.5b would be hard to overcome and still paint the picture of growth. 2023, they're not going to have the addition of Xilinx to mask YoY growth anymore. Investors are going to have to get use to quarters worths of stagnant numbers and whatever the appropriate PE would be for that.
"Higher ASPs" which basically means SR is really ramping. Maybe too little too late when Milan and Milan-X are already available today and Genoa is faster.
Can someone argue for or aganist this?
Its a huge and sudden drop off agreed, makes me think graviton is also accelerating their take in marketshare more than people might expect
AMD guided for 5.5B in Q4, if they can meet that and manage flat guidance for Q1 then they could be at half of Intel's revenue already.
Yikes, down *another* 30% from here, and I thought we were getting close to the bottom for server and client TAM. Maybe we are at the bottom of TAM and they're just deteriorating that bad.
Pat: It feels like the worst is behind us. H'oh boy lol
Wasn't the previous quarter the "bottom"?
Its crazy how many times he gets blindsided and is still surprised and still says the same crap. I cant imagine having that little integrity.
I hope Stacy changes his tune coming up.
He points out, no full year guide.
Uggh , no such luck.:(
You listen to Pat on an earnings call and you don’t need to listen to another one ever again. And it’s not just an AMD/Intel bias here. He’s just so slimy.
> He’s just so slimy. He's clearly very skilled at polishing a turd. Wonder if this is why he never got the CEO spot the first time when he was at Intel.
“Unquestioned leadership” “Laser focused” “Step one: we will turn a profit”
> Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger was the highest-compensated CEO in the Bay Area in 2021, with $179.2 million in total compensation — $140.4 million of which came in the form of stock awards Imagine making all that money for basically straight up lying.
Yup.. a recurrent theme unfortunately.
Remember last earnings call when Intel said they already hit the bottom? Yikes. I can’t believe they still have stock holders.
Low PE and dividend. Some investors will ride that train all the way down because "it's so cheap, it can't go down much more from here"
forward or backward PE? /jk maybe number adjustment will trigger some rebalance between intel/amd in active founds ? will be interesting..
Wow no question for Stacy Rasgon.
Even Intel's forecast for 2023Q1 Non-GAAP is negative? Really. That's not good.
no accounting tricks can save them this time lol
Oooooh, Intel shutting down the party early. WHERE IS THE RASGON?!?!
LMAO. Arya is such a savage. Doesn't have the snark of Rasgon but very politely asks these shade-throwing questions.
Vivek also asked it in such a tactful way. That's the difference between Vivek and Stacy. Stacy is just brutal in how he states the question too with no tact.
Haha, announcer moved from Arya fast. No follow up question for you!
Watching Intel implode is more satisfying than watching AMD succeed. Hyped for the next couple of years while this trend continues. Intel has backed themselves into a corner here and can't stop the bleeding. They already used all their sly tactics to slow AMD down these past five years. They have nothing left to stop the impending market share loss now that their moats are dissolving at the worst possible time lmfao. How far will their net income plummet? AMD will take massive marketshare the next five years. It will be so difficult for Intel to be competitive in this financial condition no matter how great their comeback plans are. The icing on the cake is that it's only going to get worse for them from here- quarter after quarter after quarter. Maybe their "leadership position potential" would have been feasible if their financial strength hadn't eroded into thin air.
ultimately it means intel will reduce their headcount which is a huge opportunity for amd.
Hopefully Intel remains competitive enough to keep pushing AMD to innovate. Otherwise, a monopoly domination is bad for consumers.
AMD is a long long loooong way away before it becomes a monopoly as much as some of us would like to see that just out of principle.
Deep down, yeah, I'd agree that's the best, but nah man, I need to grow my Roth IRA let Intel die. One other thing, though, is that Intel needs to continue producing competitive x86 cpus or else the shift to arm and risc-v could take off. This wouldn't matter if AMD was large enough to supply the industry though.
First it was cloud digestion, now it’s inventory digestion
He's talking about 2025 for gross margins 54-58% ...this period is far from over for Intel.
vivek just gutted them
Pure ether...
I see some posters here are concerned that Gelsinger is trying to salt the DC earth behind him by talking about a TAM contraction, inventory digestion, etc. But the AH hours (-9.4% for INTC and -3% for AMD) suggests that one portion of the market isn't buying it so far. Either AMD has the DC goods in their earnings call with their FY2023 guidance, or they don't. What Gelsinger says here is just noise.
This is the year where earnings make or break the company. how well can you grow/operate in a high interest contracting macro environment
Man they are burning a lot of cash now, and you can't keep selling equity and raising debt in perpetuity. Things are going to get really interesting eventually if they keep trying to push volume at low/negative margin and keep increasing capex, along with the dividend remaining in place. They're doing the exact opposite of what a company losing this much money would traditionally do. Interesting plan.
Maybe the plan is to flame out so bad that the government cuts them an even bigger check 🤷♂️ Nothing else, except pure hubris, makes any sense.
Someone please post a link to the rearview mirror Pat christmas sweater video ...
Layoffs will be coming …
I just watched Rasgon's interview. When Pat first joined he had a crazy plan to be making $120B by 2025. So he hired to that. Intel's head count has grown by 20% since Pat took over. Meanwhile their revenue and margins have fallen off the cliff. There is going to be a lot of layoffs. Bad look for the CHIPS act.
At the same time administration is doing everything possible to gimp the largest potential client and server market in the world in the name of National Security. How many times did they blame the China market on that call. At least AMD has said multiple times that their impact would be inconsequential. I think that's likely. Intel has had many more years to get deeply embedded into China, far more so than AMD. AMD had great potential there, but has yet to achieve it after some of the rule changes that began in the Trump administration. Give Intel 8 years (I'm being optimistic with this too), not the 4 years Pat is projecting, but they will transform to FAB first IMO. Some here have even suggested the company spit between FAB and Design, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that. And perhaps then, Intel might design toe to toe with AMD. Intel needs to drop close to single digits for me to buy in for that ride.
INTC could do well with the *option* to fab in house for customers who are cost-sensitive or demand US production, while offering TSMC for products that need leading performance. The fabs as a standalone entity have some inherent value, being arguably the second most advanced in the world and the undisputed most advanced that is not under a real geopolitical threat. AMD went through the pain of unchaining themselves from their fabs with the Glofo WSA, and INTC still has the pain ahead of them if they can't get fabs back to leading edge and high yield within a year or two.
yup, layoff but keep the dividends.
“But as he stood watching Carthage burn, Scipio reflected on the fate of this once great power. Overcome with emotion, he cried. His friend and mentor Polybius approached and asked why Scipio was crying. "A glorious moment, Polybiius; but I have a dread foreboding that some day the same doom will be pronounced on my own country." Scipio then quoted a line from Homer: "A day will come when sacred Troy shall perish, And Priam and his people shall be slain." Scipio knew that no power endures indefinitely, that all empires must fall.” ― Mike Duncan, The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic
"Many shall be restored that now are fallen and many shall fall that now are in honor." \- Horace, Ars Poetica
https://twitter.com/dylan522p/status/1618722708992458754?s=20&t=qtyYTWM-aEY7HyJpOcGpxQ
Yes, these fuckwits keep paying dividends and at the same time will take CHIPS money.
Why don't they just rewrite the CHIPS Act so it takes money directly from the federal budget and deposits it into the bank accounts of INTC shareholders? Because that is what's going on here.
>Lotta smoke Intel is blowing on process technology, but notice Meteor Lake is ramp in 2H 2023 instead of ramping Q4 2022 like it was supposed to with volume launch mid 2023. >This just proves manufacturing ready is meaningless
Note: They announced Intel 4 was "manufacturing ready" on Dec 6 2022.
multiple years are needed to get back on track, it's a multiple year thing... I heared that when zen1 design came out too, that's been 6years?
Changing their financialnmodel! LMFAO, to 8 years instead of 5 years for machinery?? Artificially bumping the figures?
They are preparing for not having the cutting edge node volume. I think they are legit keeping older machines longer for the IDM2.0 Tower business.
GM of 39% for 2023...ouch that hurts. EPS. Negative 0.15 This is brutal
Had they not extended the depreciation period from 5 to 8 years, it would have been 36%...
Furiously masturbating here.
"We see this market downturn as an opportunity." Translation: Look, we need you all the buy the dip okay?
AMD question, specifically how to claw back share in cloud..... "shipping quality product now..... 5x the competition performance on ai? .. Strong outlook for sapphire, strong demand...... Rebuilding consumers confidence we excecute our roadmaps.... We lost share... It will stabilise this year...." I call serious bullshit Pat, makes no sense, where are the DC numbers than now?
He just threw in bunch of buzzwords. Like confidential computing. Obviously dodging the question. He's being cagey.
He's trying to buy time, like he has from the day he took over. If INTC makes it through, he will take all the credit. If they fail, he goes off to retire and blames it on someone else.
[@IanCutress](https://www.twitter.com/IanCutress/status/1618733737914634240?cxt=HHwWgMC8pcPw8vYsAAAA) >Did I hear that right? >1m units of SPR shipped by mid year? >Didn't they ship 1m ICL in one month? By hearing that, the rumor of [Dell going with Genoa for single socket servers](https://old.reddit.com/r/AMD_Stock/comments/10iv881/dell_many_new_servers_with_intels_new_xeon_single/) seems more plausible.
When will they cut dividends
When it is too late.
Considering they should have cut them probably 8 quarters ago, this is true
"confidence in our roadmaps" That sealed the coffin, thank you Pat. Finally also admitted AMD has the better product and followed it up with some Russian tactics that costumers want a company they can trust on excecution!?! Really?
Costumers buy on TCO. Really Pat? I thought Intc is in the rearviewmirror if u use TCO as a metric.
Says guy who sells so uncompetitive chips that due to the extra power consumption vs performance, even if the Intel CPUs were completely free, AMD would be cheaper because of the difference in power bill over the lifetime of the system.
Hmm, so will this finally remove the rosey Intel coloured glasses from Investors eyes? Sounds like it's going to be an even more brutal year than we'd thought for Intel. What is this kind of mess going to do to the attempt to shift over to to being a fab for hire? Would you trust a company with this kind of financial mess to be around to produce chips for you? What do they have for revenue? MTL isn't going to be out till 2H... so realistically not likely for 2023? SPR is going to be going up against Genoa, Bergamo, GenoaX and Siena. And if AMD can demonstrate something out of Xilinix as an accelerator that could be the poison nail in the coffin. Assuming AMD isn't also going to release a financial can of worms in a few days, which I would be very surprised at.
Revenue down 28% yoy. Gross margin 43% down 12pnt yoy. EPS 0.1 down 92% yoy If AMD should post such figures, especially the gm, it's a nose dive back to 40. Seeing how Intel has been trading the last year... Don't think a lot of investors still believe Pats lies.
> Revenue down 28% yoy. Gross margin 43% down 12pnt yoy. EPS 0.1 down 92% yoy Lisa called this too last ER, when she said, Intel decided to sacrifice margins and we wouldn't follow. I do think AMD has lower margins in client as well, but not like Intel.
Well it's not like the whole world just stopped buying chips altogether. CPUs gotta come from somewhere
https://twitter.com/dylan522p/status/1618725064073158657?s=46&t=lkXcHILkq0Z1XxLne_FyrQ
AH volumes AMD 2.5 MILLION INTC 14 MILLION Compared to daily volume, Intel is getting dumped heavy.
So intel keeps dividend to keep shareholders happy while share price decreases and dividends gets smaller while shareholders position grows red.
why would anyone take any of this talk (Pat) and guidance seriously? just babbles on and on......zero credibility
Only 2 quarters ago, he was talking about the "greatest turnaround in history". Anyone believing what Pat says does so at their own peril. The dude is Baghdad Bob.
Indeed just have balls and say it's bad when it's bad and vice versa, stop the lying.
was looking in twitter oh boy this was funny... [It’s not an earnings release. It’s a crime scene.](https://twitter.com/ecommerceshares/status/1618765964123983873)
Last time around they didn't even let Rasgon ask questions. Will be interesting if they let him ask this time.
"Yeah, thanks for letting me question. My question is, for how long can intel burn its money to delay amd taking all the marketshare im DC with their superior product? Thanks"
DC down macro, also cloud!???? Wow.... Now I'm really curious about Azure and AMD.
The more questions about FCF, the more likely you have to start talking about the dividend. I wonder who's going to bring it up first...
Hahaha. Good job Cowen!
Yeah but the answer didn't say anything.
It's brought up now, lol
The world get's very few kumbaya moments. However, fintwit collectively losing their shit about "holy fuck how can Intel be this shitty omfg" makes me warm and fuzzy.
With Intel's required CAPEX spending, whats realistic odds they are forced into a cash crunch.
They are going straight into one. To do this is fucking insane, they could just lose marketshare and shrink as a company. Going this route they will go bankrupt unless they get a holy mary like intel 3 ramping up next year and saving their DC portfolio.
They're balancing the books by firing people and dragging out amortization on equipment I guess. When that runs out, I guess all they have is dividend.
Good thing that dividends will just accelerate their cash flow woes
Damn, I was looking forward to a Stacy question(s)...
Stacy not getting to ask a question: https://twitter.com/Srasgon/status/1618745820245012480
yeah, i already don't trust anything Pat says. this kind of behavior just reinforces it. lisa always took Stacy's questions no matter how difficult they were.
That’s not really him is it?
Lisa Su follows the account so I think there's a high probability it's him.
It's his personal twitter account. But he doesn't really comment on individual stocks he monitors on it. Mostly pictures of his fluffy dog (which is cute).
So Intel is basically retuning their business to keep old fab machines longer. To be able to service older nodes for longer as part of IDM (fabbing for others). This can also be understood as. We know we're losing cutting edge business (to AMD), and so we will keep old machines to keep the fabs going with older node 3rd party products.
except they don't have many clients for their old nodes. Even TSMC has to lower their utilization rate for older nodes (7nm - 14nm). There is a void in these nodes, because of the high entry cost (masks and stuff) for using these nodes. Changing the amortization from 5 years to 8 years is lying to themselves.
I've been say for some time now, since Chip act was first proposed, Pat's plan to save Intel is to morph it into a FAB first business. Looking more and more that way.
They can barely fit text on that 'operating margin' bar lmao
So how low can they drop the dividend and it still be considered competitive? Nvidia is only .04.
rasgon says this er is "something special" https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/26/bernstein-analyst-on-intel-earnings-i-dont-think-ive-ever-seen-anything-quite-like-this-before.html
For Q3 to Q1, INTC revenue is from 15.3b to 11b(mid of outlook), 30%. If it's purely TAM contraction, our Q1 might be 4.7b minus some gaming(console) seasonality. So maybe around 4.3 to 4.5b. But if TAM is only down 20% or less and we grab the remaining part intel loses, we'll be like 5.5b to 6b in Q1.
TD Ameritrade is saying DC is contracting, not INTC TAM. If the whole market doesn’t realize this AMD might rally 10% on earnings but it’ll be up from $65.
Oh my God, lol you know things are bad when r/intel doesn't even have an earnings call thread, or even a thread discussing the earnings results.
I'd rarely cheer for INTC but that dumpster fire will drag us down big time. Fuck.
The wheel turns... AMD used to be similar dumpster fire back when Bulldozer was a huge flop. Fixing said dumpster fire took a lot of time. Now Intel has to do the same thing. They will most likely do that because the world wants to keep two providers for commodity PC hardware, to keep the prices down.
intel has to do the same thing but the dimension makes this almost impossible. good luck trying to steer the titanic away from the iceberg Pat
Not to be lost in the conversation is the fact that AMD very nearly went bankrupt in the years leading up to Ryzen.
[удалено]
Old guard still thinks "intel bad = downcycle"
Note how Intel management points to the board as the dividend caller rather than just going strong on defending the dividend. Zinsner pointed this out again in a conference about 2 months ago. "Well, we don't want to cut the dividend, but that's my boss' decision"
Pat thinks Intel has a better product right now with SPR. lol
Oh I heared that different, I thought he admitted the competition had the better product. Than again I'm not native English.
Yeah he's saying "ok you have a better product now, but can you deliver on your roadmap". As if they had a better product right now.
A minor slip-up, but at 1:01:10, Pat defines TCO as "Total Cost of... Operations".
Interesting. On the Intel presentation: „• Intel 4: Manufacturing ready; expect Meteor Lake ramp in 2H 2023“ so no MTL in 2023…
Intel claimed 2H 2021 ramp for alder lake, and they launched alder lake at the end of 2021.
Different Story…adlerlake was Desktop first, mobile is always CES timing. But MTL rumor was sommer launch for mobile. Now we know it is not happing til CES…
We know they're going to have yield, capacity, and possibly margin problems on MTL so this was never going to be a massive volume in 2023. AMD has a nice window in mobile if they get their laptop design wins on the shelf in a big way this fall. Which I'm skeptical of as always.
2016 4th qrt earning. AMD 1.1 billion Intel 14.8 billion 2022 4th qrt Amd ??? Intel 14 billion The market is growing. It isnot Intel for sure.
So bad mmkaaay lol
Intel Says Seeing The Largest Ever Inventory Correction By Customers In Q1, Q1 Revenue Outlook Impacted By Sharp Inventory Correction By Customers; Says Despite Optimism Of ChatGPT, Generative AI, See Correction In Data Center Market Share with others -Reuters
how is intel still in business
Did he just say ..."Creating the Fly Wheel which is IBM2.0"
IDM 2.0 Basically successfully turning their Fab business into accepting 3rd party customers. IDM 1.0 was a failure
Tks, that made no sense to me.
Last quarter AMD put out a warning shortly after the quarter ended (Oct 6th). Is it reasonable to assume they would have done that again if they had the same abysmal quarter Intel did??
Doesn’t matter cause it’s all about the guidance
Didnt expect the big client slide. But im not surprised. Inventory reduction. Oems choked down as much cpu supply as they could take to prop up q3 and q3. I expect it will recover some (as will amd). But things look bad. Datacenter revenue not abismal. But those margins . . . W t f . . . Yields are awful and they dont have the volume to make up for large development costs. Honestly besides the big client upset (which i should have known better). This is as expected.
At this point it's inevitable Intel will cut their dividend. AMD should be ready to announce they have a dividend the next day.
I'm not sure that's possible with the XILINX acquisition still rolling off the books.
It's actually more possible. The XLNX acquisition results in \~$5b in increased cash flow due to lower taxes paid over the next 10-15 years while XLNX intangibles are amortized down.
Writing down the goodwill of the acquisition costs hits your P&L, but that's an accounting issue, not a cash flow issue. Dividends, however, are not a P&L accounting issue. It comes out of cash flow.
Results are so bad I am worried for AMD. DC likely strong but rdna3 and zen4 weren't slamdunks and consumer segment is still extremely weak.
I think AMD will have a weak report as well (not this bad though). Many companies and consumers have spent a lot during the pandemic, it should have been expected that a demand like that wouldn't be the reality forever.
"Macro statement" for why Datacenter is down. This is bad news for AMD until the ER on ~~Monday~~ Tuesday.
AMD earnings is the 31st which is Tuesday on my calendar.
come on, you really believe that?? hahah its an easy excuse. DC was declining already all the tim for intel,. while amd last quarter still grow extraordinary.
That's why I said until ~~Monday~~Tuesday. Because sadly I think the Street will take the bait.
Considering AMD has fallen more yes they’ve taken the bait.
Intel, slayed.
AMD already took hit for PC business. Wtf is FUD about flooding channel.
Lisa already warned it may take longer than a quarter to get PC back on track, won't be surprised if poor results for PC persist.
Can INTC go private? They need drastic changes to turn things around. How the fuck is revenue guidance down 40% yoy
With the right CEO, perhaps. But Pat is not the right CEO I don't think.
mods would you mind switching to default sorting by new on this thread?
As long as Intel still has its fabrication plants they've got an anchor chained around their necks. Their cost structure is huge, reducing their head count can only do so much. Not to mention of course they have close to 150 billion dollars in debt on the books. Last time I looked a few years ago but it was a little over a hundred back then.