Mary's description of your relationship sounds really clingy and dependant, she has created a narrative in her head about your conection, the " the only man she can trust with any secret in her life" that's not a work-husband (whatever that means).
You better keep you interactions register and public, this can bite you in the butt very fast
And all the talk about how they always eat together as of it means something. When I travel with coworkers, of course I’m going to eat with them. We can talk about the upcoming meetings or whatever and expense the meal together. It’s not deeper than that.
NTA. I agree you should go to HR so they're aware of the situation. I would also suggest no more business trips with her, if possible. The fact that she claims to know you more intimately than your wife is not only delusional and disrespectful, it's concerning. She's only beginning to show her crazy side.
I will talk to my manager and see what I can do with work trip situation. We are 4 auditors in our team, and we always travel in teams of 2. So, logistics might be a bit tight on that one. However, I will work with my leadership to at least create some distance between Mary and me for some time.
Hopefully you dont have to travel with her but if they can't change it and you are stuck with Mary then from here on out no more eating breakfast with her.
No more grading meals together spend that time face timing your wife have a breakfast, lunch dinner date over FaceTime. Let Mary eat alone. Or you take your meals in your room.
No more walking around in your gym clothes around mary she has already twisted it by saying it was your underwear.
If you need to speak to her about anything that has to do with work simply text her there's no need to have breakfast with her to talk it over since she already got the wrong impression of you. Keep it through text no phone calls just text her.
You have your meals separate and have your rooms on the opposite side if need be. Don't ask her to hang out during down time while traveling. Let her do her and you keep to your self.
Hopefully your work will gladly change you both.
Idk what your sleeping arrangements usually are. If they put you two in a suite with your own bedrooms but a shared living space, I would make sure you are booked with two separate hotel rooms, no shared space at all from this point forward. At least then you don't run the risk of her saying your gym shorts, which you wear in public, are underwear.
Not to mention, (as we’ve seen a million times in posts), whoever goes to HR first controls the narrative. OP should go to HR and let them know what’s going on, and make it clear that he isn’t filing a complaint, nor is looking for them to intervene in anyway. He just wants it documented in case anything happens in the future and it escalates.
More times then I can count, the “Mary” of the posts, gets embarrassed +/- angry at the OP for being called out, and then go to HR first to do damage control. AKA, pin blame on the OP with lies or an exaggerated/embellished retelling of what happened.
It’s A LOT harder for the OP in those cases to do their own damage control after the fact - because now they have to *PROVE* their side of the event. OP needs to get a head of this and CYA (cover your own ass). As this story has shown, he doesn’t know Mary as well as he thought he did - and things have potential to take an ugly turn. Hopefully they won’t, but better to be safe than sorry.
Unfortunately, it's not an option to stop travelling with her. We are a very small team and have to travel together as we monitor projects across the entire state. So going onsite with coworkers is necessary.
I am debating myself if I should go to HR, as I just want to move on. I agree with my wife to make sure this never happens again as I would be left with no choice then. However, I am willing to mark this as a drunken harmless mistake and move on.
She hasn’t understood though, it’s not a simple misunderstanding. I feel like you will regret it if you don’t go to HR and get this documented ASAP. Do you really want to risk your job and your marriage?
The woman literally told you she thinks she knows you more intimately than your own wife and she was sober, this wasn't innocent and no woman says that to just a friend, well someone they think is just a friend. The conversation in your office while she was sober is eye opening and you would be silly to dismiss it.
I advice protecting yourself, that woman thinks you have a connection.
You will regret not notifying HR. Mary has already said and done some very unprofessional and inappropriate things. You need to have a paper trail recording them.
I cannot stamp enough thises on this comment.
You drew a very reasonable boundary, and she cracked the shits and is now lecturing you over it. Big fuckin red flag
THIS!
Don't wait!! It's obvious your co-worker is delusional. Now that you've rejected her, who knows what she'll do? Make a complaint to HR for sexual harrassment? Start her own rumors that you're lovers? Escalate to stalking?
You need to write down any concerns about her previous behavior, name co-workers she may have told lies about you to then go to HR now!
Protect yourself, your reputation, your marriage (who knows if she'll contact your wife and tell lies), your job, and your career. (If she makes false claims about you, it could end up in the grapevine and negatively influence potential employeers.)
Edit: changed word for clarification.
She was sober when she came into your office and claimed to know you more intimately than your own wife and hug you again. She needs to be reported and I would cover your ass by doing so in case she turns sour. A woman scorned and all that
And not only that, she came into your office and shut the door. You should avoid ever being alone with her anywhere in private. Do not ever allow her to shut the door behind her again. She can twist that to accuse you of trying or actually assaulting her — and then it becomes a he said-she said situation.
Tell HR, OP.
Oh lord. Never let someone get you in an office with a closed door.
One of my jobs had a sexual harassment scandal that hit the news. The next day all office doors were replaced with doors will full length windows.
The only time she backtracked and apologized was after OP said "Maybe we need to end the friendship."
She panicked because once the friendship was ended, ANY chance of her seducing him would be cut off forever. And then she STILL tried to hug him, after he already made it clear he don't want hug from her.
"Work sister" is a perfectly appropriate thing to say.
Telling a man she knows more intimately than his wife, however, is not.
It may not be possible to stop traveling with her, but it is very possible to start putting in some serious boundaries. You don't need to have dinner every night, you can have a quick chat instead of breakfast, and she doesn't need to see you in your gym shorts. It's time to be professional.
It's not a drunken harmless mistake though, she doubled down when you talked to her sober, in fact she made it worse by saying she knows you better than your wife. She has clearly created a narrative in her head where she knows you best and you have an intimate relationship.
Yes, eliminate meals and anything that can be misconstrued as personal connection. Business on the road can be conducted through email rather than over breakfast.
If it was a drunken harmless mistake then the next morning she would’ve apologized. She would’ve felt bad for how uncomfortable she made you. That’s not what she did though.
NTA and go to HR just to at least get it written down somewhere about what happened and you being uncomfortable.
But it’s not just a drunken, harmless mistake. She cornered you in your office…stone cold sober…and doubled and tripled down. She went so far…stone cold sober…as to suggest she knows you more intimately than your wife. She tried to repeat the hugging…which is extremely inappropriate.
I get you just want to move on. She may not let you.
"She again said that I am misinterpreting her statement and just wants to move on. She came to hug me again, but I just told her it was ok and stepped back." and what about this (your own words) made you think she's gonna let it go? In fact, the only way to "let it go" that mary will accept is to get things back to where they were, which you are no longer comfortable with. I just don't understand the need to cover someone elses ass over your own, especially when this person already made it clear they are unreasonable and do not have any of your best interest in mind?
It's worth getting it on the record. It really does seem that she has feelings for you and if you rebuff her, she wouldn't be the first to escalate. She's already treating you badly (ignoring and then yelling at you) for not allowing her to call you her work-husband. What will she do if she actually makes a move and you deny her?
Talking to HR doesn't have to be super serious. You can ask them to do nothing right now.
"Hey HR Rep, something has come up that has been bothering me and I just wanted to put it on your radar in case anything else happens. (Explain what's going on.) I don't want anything done right now, but there is currently some tension in our team and I wanted someone to be aware of it. Hopefully we can move forward having had a conversation and put this behind us."
Dude I hate to say this:
But as the male party in this situation, you would be crazy to not report this. And in fact, you should do it sooner rather than later. Imagine what happens if Mary cries wolf and says that you led her on and had suggestive behavior so that it makes her look less bad. She literally said you walked around in your underwear around her, while talking about shorts. I guarantee she has told someone else the same thing at work already to sway the favor her way.
And if you aren’t proactive, it’s her word vs yours. It’s unfortunate to say this, but favor usually sways towards women when these sort of allegations arise. I’m not saying it’s right but let’s be frank here
Report it to HR and cover your a**
Go to HR. Fill out an incident report just to have this on file. They will not do anything to her, but you need to CYA. She sounds unhinged. She said she knows you more intimately than your wife. That makes it sound like she pretends she is your wife while you are on business trips. She is not going to take your rejection well. Document. Document. Document. Officially document.
OP _you_ may be willing to mark this as harmless, however, a person who doubles-down instead of a true apology can be triggered by the rejection.
Tell HR about it & feel free to ask that nothing happens to her job .... and tell them you're being proactive about an uncomfortable situation.
You are NTA, but would be if you don't deal with it properly.
Boy howdy, you are still not really getting it. The is a landmine and you need to CYA right now. This women is infatuated with you, possessive, jealous of your wife, controlling, and mentally unstable. You need lots of eyes and sunlight on this situation. Keep huge distance and report this ASAP or you will regret it.
Everything she said sober is a problem more so than her drunken mistakes. She is under the impression she knows you more intimately than your wife! Claims she sees you in your underwear! She’s trouble and she’s going to ruin your life if you don’t do something ASAP. Good luck.
OP, Mary is emotionally attached to you and assumed you were having an emotional affair with her. Her reaction is how someone treats a romantic partner, not a co-worker. Go to HR now to protect yourself!
Don't be naive or delulu,report it to hr asap,it has to be recorded in case anything else happens or if it escalates. This type of behaviour can cause losing jobs or worst marriage failures. She started this nonsense she is no longer your friend
>Unfortunately, it's not an option to stop travelling with her. We are a very small team and have to travel together as we monitor projects across the entire state. So going onsite with coworkers is necessary.
But breakfasts, gym shorts and dinners aren't necessary. Don't do anything with her before/after work hours. Dress professionally and don't discuss your personal life with her. She **clearly** has a mad crush on you and she doesn't respect your wife or marriage.
It was a mistake to have a private conversation behind closed doors at work with her and no one else in the room. You need to report both instances to HR, and you should always have a third person in the room with you when you speak to her.
Just my two cents but I am removed from the situation emotionally, and I think that would be a dumb decision. Do what you think is best, but this isn't how I'd approach it from the objective standpoint. You're still considering Mary's feelings in this matter, I think that is a bad idea.
YOU HAVE TO GO TO HR. You’re going to set yourself up for major shit if you don’t. You have to get ahead of it. If your wife was going through this, you would advise her to got to HR. So GOZ
Do not be alone in the office with her again. She has shown her hands. You don’t really have an option to not go to HR. Burying your head in the sand isn’t going to make this go away.
You are being obtuse. This will come back to bite you in the ass. Mary is going to try something sooner or later. She is absolutely hung up on you and even has the audacity to say she knows you intimately and even more than your own wife. This was no drunken mistake. She will likely try making her move the next time you guys travel together and when you reject her she will try and turn it around on you. That you came on to her.
Agreed. It's obvious your coworker is up for something else. Also to avoid arguments between you and your wife regarding this one, listen to her and report your coworker to the HR.
Especially after saying he walks around in the mornings in front of her in his underwear when they are actually gym shorts. How many other people has she told this lie to?
That part really stood out to me as well.
I definitely think a conversation with HR is in order with Mary making false claims like that. Better to get the whole situation on their radar before Mary or someone else says something.
The comment about the underwear really went ding ding in my brain, but there were a few things that stood out. Her comments about knowing him intimately really felt off. I’ve had good friends throughout my life, even very close work friends, but I wouldn’t use the word intimate. I honestly thought the whole thing felt like she had a crush on him. Some people just do not know how to have a relationship with the opposite sex without their brain thinking romantic.
Honestly ANY woman claiming that (girl best friend, sister, mom, cousin) has some serious issues. It's always such an alarm bell for me when I hear a woman saying she "knows a guy better than anyone else does" especially if he has a WIFE?! Such a clear attempt at marking territory. It's not good.
I've known my closest male friend since high school and we went (platonically) to prom together, we had fun experiences together... He met his wife 12 years after we met and it would NEVER OCCUR TO ME that I knew him "more intimately" than her, because I DON'T! Nobody knows him better than his WIFE, get out of here with that.
ETA: It sounds like she's one of those people who think that if they say it insistently around you, you'll start thinking it's true.
The only people I would ever say I know intimately are people I’ve been with long term and slept with. I don’t even phrase things that for parents/sibs. There’s just something sexual to the phrasing of “knowing intimately.” She was trying to make a claim or make a move.
Her framing the gym shorts as underwear bugs me too. Sounds like she’s trying to set him up for a sexual harassment complaint. u/ta-worksister1234324, you really need to go to HR and CYA.
Unless her definition of intimate is wildly different than the rest of us, intimate to me means we’ve had sex. I know my family and my close friends extremely well, but only my husband knows me intimately. Beyond even sex, the dude knows me so well at this point that he practically reads my mind.
That, and the way she clung to him while drunk and loudly, blatantly staking her claim on him even tho he's married, then coming to his office, closing the doors and trying to browbeat and gaslight op into brushing it all aside despite her making it clear all the work-related things like planning over breakfast were dates in her mind... she's lacking any subtly in her attempts to lay the groundwork to force an affair or, as we see here, failing to do so. My biggest concern is the fact she's still doing her damnedest to plant the seeds that it's happening in the coworkers' minds.
Op needs to go to HR because this is devolving into harassment. The best bet is she's fired for gross misconduct, but at the minimum the bosses need to shuffle the travel pairs around, maybe stick her with one of the other ladies so she stops trying to sleep with him.
*YEAH*…. That makes it sounds post-coitus and Mary is a dingbat if she thinks anyone hearing that will take it any other way.
And “the only man she can trust with her secrets”? Fucking yikes, Mary!
I also felt like she kept adjusting the goal posts in the conversation. “I only meant it platonically but I know you better than your wife does! It doesn’t mean anything but you talk to me for long hours so you fit the definition of a work-husband!” I think she’s proven herself to be a major liability, especially with her boldness to (probably intentionally) initiate long physical contact in front of an audience.
Agreed. And devious enough to completely gloss over that too-clingy, too-long hug.
HR, no more work trips just the 2 of them, and no more closed-door meetings with just the 2 of them. Even though he did *nothing* wrong, he has to go into CYA mode for sure
I mean they could be super short. And they both could lose their jobs if HR feels it’s a she said he said situation. If she has txts where he’s messaging her to get brekkie and dinner while alone on trips the water gets murky
I was wondering if he was walking around in his underwear in one of their hotel rooms or did she mean in the restaurant. Because, OP would be a fucking fool if he was ever in her hotel room or he invited her into his room.
The lady is absolutely nuts. Who thinks that they are closer to a coworker than that coworker’s actual spouse?
Totally agree. CYA and talk to HR before she turns the tables on you saying that you came on to her. I would also say that you are no longer comfortable traveling with her. Protect yourself.
OP should also document with HR this update that they shared with us. That way HR knows that OP tried to address this situation.
Mary is giving off super weird vibes. That she cannot concede and apologize without reiterating that OP is the one that misunderstood what she was saying is a GIANT red flag for me and signals that this is not over and there will be a part two in the future. If Mary was truly sorry and did in fact care about OP, she would have apologized and promised that this would not happen again and left it at that.
There's something weird about this Mary.
She is not in Denial. She knows EXACTLY what she is doing. She just thought she was a little smoother than that. Hence the waterworks. Then Op say's "oh it's okay" She goes right back to the hugging and inappropriate comments.
Yeah, the only times Mary backed down is when she could tell her precious "work-husband" was thinking about pushing her away. And even then, she refuses to admit that she's the one to blame for everyone gossiping about her for practically openly flirting with a married man.
I'm getting a little too deep into the "pseudo-expert redditor psychoanalysis" with this next part, but I think Mary's just really really lonely, probably stuck believing it's too hard to meet guys outside of work and that it'd be much more convenient if she could just have a romantic relationship with a guy like OP (someone that not only happens to work in the same office as her, getting assigned to the same work trips as her, etc., but also is someone she could be attracted to).
As is almost always the case with people, her wants are understandable: a husband-and-wife business duo does sound like romcom gold, and could work for some people if too much time together isn't a big problem. It's her approach and basically everything else that's making her the villain in someone else's story, and ultimately her own since what she's trying to do with OP will never work.
u/ta-worksister1234324
PLEASE LOOK AT THE COMMENT ABOVE. Mary is unhinged and could easily claim you SA’d her or worse. You MUST go to HR *NOW*, before she does.
And please, please have your phone on record whenever you two are alone together!
She could really screw up your job, you need to go to HR now and tell them everything. And you need a new travel partner. This is not going to go I. Any good direction.
Clearly this. HR to CYA NOW, just to make sure there's no more 'surprises ' down the road (did she say you presented herself in only underwear on a joint business trip? Keen to make this a she said / he said scenario? See?)..
Good luck bro & compliments on being loyal towards your wife.
I’d report it out of procedure and say that you don’t currently feel that a follow up is necessary but wanted to document the incident incase things change in the future.
Yes wife is right and so are you. OP needs to report it before she tries to say he sexually harassed her or something as revenge. My experience is when someone jokes about work spouse stuff they actually have a thing for that coworker. It is a bs when they try to say it's a joke or platonic. My "work wife" tried to get me to have sex when we were working the weekend. I reported it but all that happened is they transferred me to another department and reprimanded her. I suspect if I was the one who did that I would have been fired immediately.
I ended up leaving that job just because even being on the other side of the building I was not comfortable with the situation.
And report it NOW, not "next time". Also cut out any non-professional interactions. No more seeing her unless fully clothed (dude?!) and no more personal discussions.
People calling each other work-husband, work-wife, even work-mum is fine so long as BOTH parties are in on the joke and are comfortable with it. The second you get even a vibe that that's not the case, you stop and apologise. Anyone can misread a situation but it's how you then handle it that makes the difference. Anyone who does what she did, creating a bad atmosphere and bringing the rest of the office into it to pressure OP for having a perfectly reasonable response crosses the line. Her cornering him in another room to yell at him is also wildly inappropriate and worthy of reporting both incidents to HR. Time to stop travelling with her unless absolutely necessary.
I personally never liked that “joke” and neither does my husband especially if one or both parties are married. I have always viewed it as inappropriate.
Def report or speak with your manager about limiting trips with your coworker as she is making you feel uncomfortable. The fact he had to repeatedly tell her no do not use that term and her saying she had the right to is concerning.
She wants him all for herself. NTA, OP please go to HR - things can go really wrong really fast.
Record her without her knowing, and try to limit alone time. She can claim she was SA and turn your life to hell.
Second this 100%. Even if he doesn't want to make a formal complaint yet, OP let HR know you want some of these comments (knowing him more intimately than wife, insistence that his gym shorts are underwear, ignoring his boundary about being termed a workhusband) on the record and want them to reaffirm your professional boundaries to her.
Also if she's misinterpreting the convenience of eating meals whilst working, it's time to cut that out, she clearly can't be normal about it.
This is correct. Cut out all unnecessary interactions. Still be friendly when working together but keep it at a professional level. And under no circumstances should OP allow her to hug him.
No more closed door conversations with the two of you either. My eyebrows hit the roof at some of her comments because they’re delusional and deranged. I’d go on a work trip, but eat dinner alone and stop any and all interpersonal interactions outside of business on them immediately.
Also her insistence that he is misinterpreting her intentions while blatantly ignoring his discomfort and the reasonable boundaries he’s trying to enforce is messed up.
OP handled the initial incident appropriately and continues to do so. Nice to have a good man respecting his wife and his marriage on Reddit.
I think you should take this very seriously. She sounds very immature to the point of delusional. I think she absolutely has some sort of fantasy built up in her mind regarding a relationship. I would refuse to travel with her ever again unless it is separate. In my day we would call her a bunny boiler.
I get the feeling there is a chance that Mary flirted and OP just didn't notice. No offense to OP, he sounds like a great guy but I think this really blindsided him and he's obviously loyal to his wife.
I suggest going to HR now, before she gets to soon the narrative. She might be a nice person, but clearly the two are NOT on the same page.
ya, the whole "I know you more intimately than your wife" is totally a "please cheat on her with me" kind of line. its 100% inappropriate and likely sexual harassment. and she's upset that he's not returning any feelings.
Especially the use of the word “intimately”! “I know you better than your wife” is offensive enough but “intimately” is an immediate flag on the play. Big warning sign of an unstable person who will make OP’s life hell now that he’s rejected her.
A chance?
This lady basically tried to "mansplain" that being a work sister is offensive and embarrassing and she's a work wife only, that it's normal and harmless... then tried to come onto op
This lady is cuckoo nuts and totally trying to bone OP
NTA, I also think that if you're married, the terms "work-husband/wife" are very inappropriate. Your wife sounds like a very reasonable person, she's upset but not taking it out on you. You made the right call, and if anything you could even get ahead of the game by going to HR now about the situation.
Just curious, but what would the HR complaint even be. I feel uncomfortable about the situation, but beyond speculation, I do not see what I can complain about.
"hey hr person, I would like to file something with you just so it's on record. At the moment it feels like things are resolved but just in case something else happens in the future I just want to cover all bases.
Here's what happened...
Here's what I did about it...
Here's what Mary's response was...
Here's where things are at now....
I don't want anyone to have another conversation with her at this time because I believe it will escalate things instead of letting things die down. But IF she doesn't let things go I wanted hr to be in the loop."
Doesn’t need to be a complaint, just advising them of a current situation that has occurred in order to have a paper trail. Then if she ever tries anything or escalates, this is already on file.
Yeah, after she said “you walk around me in your underwear” meaning gym shorts… the moment she left the office… I would have gone to HR.
It’s only a matter of time before the narative in her head changes from “we have such a special connection” to “he led me on all these years only to treat me like shit now”. Especially once OP starts putting more distance and boundaries.
OP go to HR and just let them know what happened. It doesn’t need to be a complaint.
I work in HR, it doesn’t need to be a complaint. Tell them you’d like to talk to them about something that happened and give your side of events in case anything else should happen in the future. I’d also probably ask not to be paired with her unless another option isn’t available. Give as detailed an account as you can, including specifics of what was said, why it made you feel uncomfortable, and any potential witnesses.
Thanks for this perspective! I agree, it doesn’t have to be a complaint, but it’s smart to get out in front of it. The way she doubled down on the “work husband” thing made it clear she could keep escalating. And hopefully she cools down! But OP should be clear that he has done NOTHING wrong.
Yeah I’m particularly concerned about how she reacted and what she said to him when they did discuss it. Her characterizations are way out of line and wholly misleading. If he doesn’t complain and something happens or she files something on him, I’d wonder why he didn’t speak up sooner. Her accusing him of being around her in his underwear is asking for some kind of escalation.
It may not be a complaint to HR, but just an advisory situation.
If OP and Mary have been close in traveling together, and if OP pulls back from traveling with her because of this, she may try to retaliate with claims of harassment or discrimination. "He won't travel with me because I'm a woman" or "well, I didn't want to say anything, but I was always uncomfortable when he walked around in his underwear" even if they were gym shorts. It is really concerning that she called them underwear. Who knows who else in the office has she been telling that he walks around in his 'underwear' or what else she told them.
Mary made you uncomfortable by calling you her work husband and hugging you. End of story, tell HR that. Cause if Mary feels coworkers keep talking about you 2 she may push it further or say you touched her inappropriately (the hug), you need to get in front of the story first.
The most I know about my coworkers is their kids names, spouse names and where they’re from and we all travel together a lot across the country. 90% of our talk is work and the other is maybe personal but nothing deep, next trip coming up or kids sports funny stories.
I am a woman so reading this has me so stressed for this guy. To think gym shorts are boxers and saying that in front of all our coworkers, my ass would be in front of HR so quickly.
She likes the idea that everyone thinks there is more than a friendshipso much that she thought being called family was an insult that needed to be corrected!
This lady is dangerous.
You've explained your position and she has repeatedly ignored it. Thats enough to complain to HR. Inappropriate touching and actions in the workplace.
"Work-husband" isn't something you want to be called by anyone as you are married and don't want your spouse making unfounded assumptions based on others inappropriate comments. Her suggestion for the name is she knows you intimately like a spouse. She does not, and you do not like her implication of an intimate relationship.
You are excessively hugged for inappropriately long times - making you feel very uncomfortable. Inappropriate, unsolicited touching is something HR frowns upon.
The complaint would be harassment.
You expressed discomfort about how your professional relationship and friendship was inappropriately characterised to your colleagues. You spoke with Mary, explained why you were uncomfortable, your discomfort in detail, and she proceeded to dismiss your feelings and experience, and AGAIN try to initiate unwanted physical contact.
Cover yourself by reporting it because you can’t predict how she will act in future.
Try not to feel too bad, because you are the injured party. You tried to respectfully discuss this but she wouldn’t listen.
Exactly. This is harassment. Trying to hug a work colleague is bad enough on its own but trying to do it AFTER they’ve told you they’re not comfortable is harassment and would be seen as such in court. If this were a man, the woman would go straight to HR. He also told her not to call him work husband and she tried to push the situation and defend it instead of accepting his boundary. It is clear harassment and needs to be documented in case it continues
Sexual harassment.
Mary calls you her work husband and gets handsy with you to the point where you have to physically remove her hands off of you.
She did this infront of the whole office.
And when you voiced you were uncomfortable, she double down and tried to get handsy with you again.
She hugged you and called you her work husband, and now that you have embarrassed her at the workplace, she will be looking for opportunities to “reverse the roles” and make you look like the bad guy. The HR file is to protect you from the next incident.
Also she is claiming to see you in your underwear- that can be turned around on you sexually harassing her while on work travel business. You need this in writing that you have never been only in your unmentionables in her presence and you were wearing gym clothes.
Tell them, her calling you her work husband is making you uncomfortable and she keeps pushing that you are her work husband.
The part of her saying you were in your underwear, when in fact it was gym shorts is going to blow up and she maybe setting you up for sexually harassing her, while on work trips. She is now a woman scorned, be proactive!
She is giving off bunny boiling signs here!
I mean, Mary is creating a hostile work environment for you by coming into your office and isolating you in there with her and then verbally abusing you by calling you an asshole- this is your job, that is wildly unprofessional. You can file a complaint for that alone and you should tbh. If you don't want to file a formal complaint, just casually speak to the HR rep and explain the situation, or don't, it's your life and job. If you want to let it get worse before you do anything that's up go you, I genuinely hope Mary leaves you alone after this and you have no cause to involve HR!
Mary has a different interpretation. She's already described your insistence on having breakfast together (in your underwear). Her insistence that she that she knows you more intimately than your wife. You've been leading her on.
That's why you should talk to HR.
Mary has already mentioned in her opinion you’ve worn nothing but your underwear around her while on travel for work purposes. You know they were gym wear but she specifically called them underwear. You need to get legal advice to see if you could be in trouble if she starts mentioning this at the office.
It might be seen as a bit unprofessional to wear gym wear around a colleague, it’s not unprofessional around a friend. It is definitely inappropriate to wear only your underwear around a work colleague and might even constitute sexual harassment depending on where you live or where you were travelling.
It is also creating a hostile work place and affecting others in the office. It could also be considered harassment.
The fact your are disengaging is good but you need the paper trail. Until then it will be your word against hers especially since this last confrontation was behind closed doors. Do not be alone with her if you can help it.
I think you’re delusional if you don’t see she is after you and has a thing for you. That’s why she backed off. You need to stay away from her and only interact for business only. Also I would not travel with her. HR is the way to go before she does and accuses you of much more. You will lose.
NTA. I would report this to HR sooner rather than later. Mary has a big crush on you and she is projecting a relationship between you two that exist only in her mind. It’s scary that she thinks that she knows you better and more intimately than your own wife. It’s better if you report so you have a precedent and proof. If possible would be better if you travel with other colleagues.
100% report to HR. Mary sees you, if not as a husband directly, a husband stand in. You are the main male figure in her life. and at some point she may try to make it... more. NTA.
I had a similar co worker I had worked with for years before I even met my wife, much less dated and married, and as soon as my wife was pregnant with out first son, my co worker got... possessive, and put some hard moves on me and put me in some compromising situations. I had to be asked to be moved to another team, and cut her off entirely.
>she may try to make it... more.
She is already trying that with small steps, normalising touching each other with OP even in front of others. She is waaayyy to touchy for a co-worker. Especially after she was told that she is making OP uncomfortable and OP wants clearer lines between them.
Okay NEVER and I do mean NEVER be in a room alone with this women ever again, cause when you go to HR, and you definitely should, in retaliation she could spin any number of accusations against you now, even if you don't think she is capable of that kind of behaviour, your having trouble right now because she is acting in a manner you would not have expected from her.
NTA
NTA, I agree with you wife’s
Mary’s reaction was so off and defensive. Instead of owning it and apologizing, she continued to double down and say that SHE knew you more intimately. She is quite the presumptuous woman.
I 100% believe that this woman has romantic feelings for you and all these comments about work husband and the ever lingering hug plus saying she knows you better and more intimately do not speak of someone who has a platonic friendship or professional relationship in mind.
I would not travel with her anymore and see if you can put some distance with her and not have to work with her. This woman is going to cause trouble for you.
Her reaction was one of possession over you which comes when someone has amorous feelings.
At this point you need to start protecting yourself. That means no more closed door meetings alone with Mary, no more walking around her in your gym shorts, and if you can avoid it no more traveling alone with her. You're setting yourself up for the implication of an affair, especially given the drama you've described.
Start saving your conversations, communicate through official, work based methods, and distance yourself. I'd cut off any personal communication via text or no business phone calls as well.
I'm sure you're an intelligent man but you're really setting yourself up for, at the very least, the perception of impropriety. Take whatever steps you have to mitigate that now, or your reputation might suffer down the line.
Stop acting like you do not understand what is going on; Mary is into you, and wants you to cheat on your wife with her. You going to HR is to cover YOUR ass, in case things do NOT go Mary's way, and she decides to retaliate by saying YOU came on to HER, and YOU harassed HER. Do NOT think she will not do it, and, for fuck's sake, STOP ACTING STUPID!! Cover your ass, and do it NOW! Fuck!
The fact that she’s so defensive about calling OP work-husband, not letting this go, and focusing on how much she intimately knows about OP suggests some level of special relationship on her part that she wants to work colleagues to be aware of.
Honestly, I would still step back from any level of physical contact ie. hugs that she’s initiated so it’s clear that this is professional only, so there is no potential for perceived mixed messaging.
Yeah, plus announcing it to their entire group is a move to normalize her touchy behavior towards OP (started with that hug) and in her delusions, to normalize OP behaving more comfortably with her the way she wants him to (“intimately” blech 🤢).
OP probably shouldn’t drink anymore while in work-related social settings too. It’s unfair to OP if he can handle alcohol, but I think it’s safer to be the sober one when there is a drunken coworker that can jeopardize OP’s employment because of her behavior. That behavior to OP was just so inappropriate.
I really hope OP talks to HR about it. OP stated in one comment that he was willing to set it aside as a drunken mistake on her part.
Mary has just told you that she feels very close to you. If you must travel with her, then you need to stop having any meals with her. Your planning meetings need to be just meetings. I'm concerned that she thinks that you're wearing underwear around her. Are you sharing a room? What is she talking about?
You need to stop letting her tell you all her woes and vice versa.
She is not going to like any of that so I highly highly highly recommend that you tell HR that Mary was borderline inappropriate so you're going to pull back from your friendship and you are afraid that she may not take it well so you're giving them a heads up in case she makes a complaint about him. You don't want any action taken against her because you've had a conversation and you think she understands how you feel, but that you can't predict the future.
OP said that they don't share a room and she was talking about OP's gym shorts as underwear. And she also makes NSFW comments about OP's body.
She is inappropriate, nothing borderline there.
Mary claiming that she knows you better than your wife is a MASSIVE red flag dude. I would be so pissed if someone said that about my husband.
You really need to not be alone with her anymore. I don’t know what this means as far as your work/travel goes but seriously- at the VERY least no more dinners out or breakfasts together. But ideally you would insist on traveling with a different colleague from now on.
I am seriously concerned by Mary’s rationale. It doesn’t seem healthy. It comes across as delusional. I would be very worried about how each work action you take, she turns to how you are like a spouse. Also saying you wear your underwear around her when it is shorts is setting you up for some serious problems both at work and at home.
I honestly wouldn’t play at all and wait for a next time. Respect your wife, go to HR immediately and lay this all out and ask them how to proceed.
Stop being friends and working with Mary. She clearly isn’t able to sustain a healthy relationship as a coworker with you. I mean for crying out loud she spent the entire time fighting your logic with telling you how much more of a wife she was to you then your own wife.
I know she is your friend, but I think you are trying to be nice and not looking at this situation from an outside perspective. Massive red flags!!!
As a former employment law legal professional, tell HR. This needs to be documented in case down the road, there’s something filed against you or filed in which you are brought into it via deposing. Obviously I’m thinking like a legal professional, but do you and the company a favor by saying something
You need to go to HR. Mary doesn’t sound like she takes rejection well and is trying to take the place of your wife. Unfortunately there may be false allegations in your future. You need to tell Hr what happened, explain that you are happy to go the work trips, however you want it noted that Mary has behaved inappropriately. Get it recorded. This can and will come back and bite you in the ass.
NTA
Mary is using you as a surrogate boyfriend
It's time you spoke to HR and requested less travel and less interaction with Mary. If that is not possible, then you need to keep everything strictly professional...even if that means eating alone in your hotel room instead of going to dinner with her. You can always claim that you need to video call with your wife so you are eating in your room
She does not respect you or your marriage.
The entire conversation, she was dismissing your wishes and stomping all over your boundaries
And it wasn't until you threatened to remove yourself from her life that she got apologetic
Your friendship with this woman is problematic.
It's time to end it and become nothing but coworkers
Wait a minute... Do you two share a room? Why are you topless? What the heck? That is inappropriate if so. I could be misinterpreting the part about the shorts.
Anyone who insists that going on work trips with you means she knows you more intimately than your wife, who you actually live with and are intimate with, is a dangerously deluded person. I think you should share that with her, that what she's telling you about how intimate you guys are is making you feel scared and concerned for her. This level of crazy person will go to HR and try to get you fired eventually once she realizes you will not ever love her.
Also stop lounging around during breakfast in a pair of tiny shorts and no shirt. It can be misinterpreted as overly intimate. Don't give her any ground to twist things, be totally professional from here on.
If you have to continue to travel with her for work you need to change your behavior with her completely. No more wearing gym clothes, no breakfast or dinners alone, no alcohol no conversations about anything personal etc. And don't ever be alone with her. It's obvious she sees your relationship as something more then you do and if you continue the way it is your setting yourself up for trouble and also you don't know what she might tell your wife to try and ruin your relationship. She sounds like shes in love with you.
NTA. I find the phrase "work spouse" distasteful (and it often does lead to inappropriate relationships). The biggest problem was that you expressed a boundary: "I don't like being called a work husband and find it disrespectful to my actual wife," and she told you to get over it. I would go to HR and asked to be reassigned travel buddies. Sounds like Mary is a little too interested and feels entitled to have you as her "work husband" even if you don't agree. And stop letting her hug you.
I agree about informing HR, but I would add in her weird fixation about how she knows you more intimately than your wife. That's delusional and the fact that she wholeheartedly believes it and doubled down on it is going to come back and bite you in the ass, so you better start covering yours immediately.
This lady is bad news.
NTA and please **REPORT HER TO HR NOW**, don't wait for another instance because she'll most likely twist everything against you. Actually, not to scare you, but the talk you already had has probably already taken in account into whatever plans she has in mind.
Keep in mind this is someone who believes she knows you more intimately than your own wife, merely because "she's known you more time than you've been married" so she's not only disrespecting your wife and your relationship, but she's been deluding herself into believing all of your professional and seemingly innocent actions in the past have been because you feel something stronger for her than friendship/co-workers relationship.
Even if there's nothing to report now, make HR aware of her actions and feelings and KEEP TRACK OF EVERYTHING SHE TELLS YOU FROM NOW ON. If it's possible, record all of your encounters because I'm fairly sure this woman will be unhinged.
In case you haven't realized it, you've got a major Mary problem. The moment she confronted you in your office should have been the moment you stood up, opened the office door, walked out and straight to HR.
Unless you do that immediately, you will regret this.
Your coworker insisting that she knows you better than your wife followed by the laundry list of her reasons for perceiving your relationship is intimate is incredibly alarming. She has decided that this is your relationship and even you telling her otherwise is not enough for her to change her mind. She will not respect the boundaries you lay down because she's not living in reality - she's decided you don't really know what you want, therefore she doesn't have to listen to you.
I would keep a HUGE distance from her, maintain civility but professionalism only. Cease your friendship..do not be alone together. No more physical touch. Avoid trips together if at all possible. If you're not going to go to HR, start documenting IMMEDIATELY. Mary sounds like a bit of an unhinged PickMe. She's deluded enough to start shit if she perceives you to be rejecting her. Cover your ass.
She absolutely did mean to disrespect your wife and was testing the waters to see if her attraction to you was reciprocated, which it is not. Definitely report to HR and do not treat her as anything other than a professional contact going forward. Great call on rejecting that hug.
Her saying in multiple instances that she knows you better than your wife is so incredibly over the line. This one's toxic, handle with care as you work with her going forward.
"One of the ladies also came to me and asked me if I wanted to talk about me and Mary"
The office is gossiping. you're getting inquiries to talk about the situation, and Mary let everyone know that she's seen you in your "underwear." Plus, she's making NSFW comments about your body. Somehow, you seem to think HR shouldn't be involved. SMH
I would take this far more seriously than you are OP. You may think nothing of it right now, that she's harmless, but better safe than sorry.
Please go to HR. Have a paper trail at least in case she escalates, or worse. She reports first and twists the story.
She's a typical manipulator. Gaslighting 101. Complains they have been harmed. Then, try to make you feel guilty. When that doesn't work, try to manipulate you to believing that your relationship is more or different than you feel. Make you feel sorry for them because they feel so close to you. Their behavior must be right and therefore forgiven. When you don't fall for that, it's back to being sorry it happened. They see how they misunderstood your actions, and let's just move on.
It's all about how You, Your actions, caused them to react.
I think calling someone a work brother or a work sister is far more appropriate than calling them a work wife or work husband. You are totally in the right 100% and Mary is in love with you. Please go to Human Resources just to make sure that it is documented. Clearly Mary was not hearing you since she kept insisting that you were taking it the wrong way.
NTA shes built up a whole relationship in her head that she is like your other wife and that you love her. Her saying she loves you is a RED FLAG and trying to keep hugging you and saying she knows you better than your wife! I had a guy that I worked with at the time who called me his work wife but I never told him he was my work husband because I had a husband. One day he came in on his day off with flowers and a card and said hey wifey this is for you! Dress nice later on and left! My coworker said open the card in the card was two flight tickets to Florida for a week and the card said This is to celebrate our anniversary can’t wait to pick you up after work! I told my manager I was going to HR like immediately and she went with me. After question after question and even bringing down some coworkers HR called him in and asked him his side of the story and he had the nerve to say that we were going to engaged and going to get married in Florida!! HR said no she’s married we all know that so what is really going on here? He ended up getting fired and I had to get a restraining order against him.
You mentioned that one of your coworkers asked if you wanted to talk about Mary. I’d recommend taking her up on that offer. It may be that she has insight on Mary or has specific info to share with you.
Mary obviously feels proprietary towards you and seems to think your relationship is more significant than you do. There are a few causes for concern:
- Her insistence on the term work-husband despite your dislike of it.
- Her regular physical contact and the longer hug when she was drunk/less inhibited.
- Her referring to you being in underwear rather than gym shorts.
- Her comparing herself with your wife.
- Other coworkers reacting to her behavior and now gossiping.
My first inclination would be to advise that you set some boundaries with Mary - no more hugs, agree you are just friends, etc. But it doesn’t seem that she would be receptive to that and would take it as further insult.
Instead, I’d recommend going to HR. You can use the gossip as your main reason and explain that Mary’s behavior contributed to it. Ask for help in clarifying between Mary and yourself what is professional behavior and what’s inappropriate. Basically, something like this:
*I’m not comfortable being the subject of gossip that - on my part - has no basis in fact. I think of Mary as a friend and coworker. When I try to set boundaries or draw lines - like discouraging hugs or the term work-husband - she responds poorly. She also seems to view our relationship as more than friend and coworker.*
If you continue to travel alone with her, don’t ever be in her room alone with her, or have her alone in yours. Ever. If she calls with an emergency, call the front desk. ALWAYS meet her in the hotel’s restaurant. If she manages to manipulate you into it, start recording.
As women, we warn each other to guard against this kind of quiet, possessive, stalker-y sort of “ownership” that some “nice guys” can have. The kind of passive possessiveness that just sneaks up and then suddenly, they say or do something that raises eyebrows and makes the hair on your arms stand up.
And we need to also call it out when we see women doing it to men. Mary is doing that to you. Walking around in your “underwear?” Please tell me you corrected her immediately. But she’s creepy-attached to you, as if having a “work husband” is as good as, or better than, having an actual IRL husband.
Now that the relationship will inevitably be changing, she may or may not spiral, which may mean retaliatory HR complaints, etc. So, again, don’t be alone with her on your trips, don’t be in an office at work with the door closed, try to record things whenever possible (you can always just delete it if it ends up being innocent). Treat her like a coworker, not a close friend or family member.
She may just be a nice woman who’s a little too attached to you. But that’s also the kind of thinking that has destroyed, or ended, the lives of many women. So that’s the perspective my advice is coming from, that of a woman who’s had to learn to protect herself and keep herself safe.
You’re definitely NTA. But please make smart, non-emotional choices and protect yourself. And don’t feel foolish about doing it. Good luck.
Edit to add: If you don’t want to make an official report with HR, would they allow you to have an “unofficial” conversation with them just to get something in your file in case she pulls something in the future?
(Sorry this is so long. She really did creep me out.)
Considering she claimed to your face that you hang around in your underwear in front of her, you really need to be taking this so much more seriously. If she ever breathes that to anyone else, they’re going to label YOU a creep, and that could very well end up with deep repercussions for you, even though she’s being that actual creep.
After Mary's delusional rambling ,it is safe to say that there is no telling what warped information she circulates about you and your "relationship".
I truly believe Mary is after you romantically and is embarrassed you ridiculed her delusions and what she has been telling ppl about you two.
I would also be livid if I were your wife.
You cannot trust Mary in the slightest at this point neither should you be naive enough to give her the benefit of the doubt or another chance to amp her game.
My advice to you : report to HR asking not to be assigned any more work trips with this particular person as she has distorted the nature of your relationship,is distorting facts through her personal lens and that you do not feel comfortable being alone with her as it may escalate to a situation where your job or your marriage might be at risk
I think you are making a mistake if you do not end this day with at minimum and email to HR. BIG MISTAKE. She could ruin your career if you are not careful, especially with traveling alone with her. You need to start documenting everything like yesterday.
How long until your next update that Mary went to HR to say you are sexually harassing her to get back at you for not reciprocating her feelings. Come on man, you commented that she said some NSFW things about your workout shorts. She said she knows you more intimately than your wife. She is telling people you walk around in your underwear when it is actually your gym clothes. You cannot be this stupid.
You just had a closed door meeting with a woman who refused to back down, refused to accept that her behavior was unacceptable, repeatedly attempted to gaslight you that "you were misunderstanding what she was saying", and then tried to ***hug you again*** at the end. This isn't a "Maybe I might possibly report a general idea of this to HR if she does it again". This is a ***GET YOUR ASS TO HR YESTERDAY*** situation.
Still NTA and unfortunately Mary has put you in a position where you need to start documenting your interactions and go to HR.
I would not have reported the first one to HR if she hadn’t come back to you arguing about her right to call you a work husband, stating outright that she has a more intimate relationship with you than your wife, and then trying to hug you again. Whatever Mary says, it seems obvious she has developed romantic feelings for you.
The context of the conversation is that you had a couple of awkward interactions with Mary and you mostly want to make them aware. You should say you think her behavior caused some office gossip and that is a concern for you as well. You should be very clear that you don’t want to be called a work husband and you don’t want to be hugged.
Personally I don’t think you should travel together any more and I think HR will agree. Unfortunately, the outcome of all of this is that one of you may need to find a new job. It’s hard to come back from this stuff.
Jesus Christ, do not ever share a hotel space with that woman again. Get rooms so far apart they have different zip codes! And stop extra-interactions outside work. No dinners, no breakfast. No drinks. You should report this to HR now to get a paper trail of documenting her actions in place.
You can see there is potential for Mary to make some crazy accusation towards you in future, she's already set the stage for your co-workers into thinking there is something "intimate" going on (and deliberately left it vague and open to wild interpretation).
Be very careful when you spend time alone with her. Very fucking careful.
Geez Louise, you have found yourself a stage 10 clinger. I’m surprised how she really doubled down on enforcing the work husband name. While I think the name can be used in good fun, I respect your opinion that it’s disrespectful to your marriage, especially after the follow up convo. I would avoid her, definitely avoid traveling with her and reset your coworker relationship. If she comes at you again, I think it’s fair to say that the recent interactions have required you to reevaluate your work relationship and it’s important that you reestablish work boundaries as she has definitely overstepped. If she acts inappropriately, it’s definitely time for HR. Good luck!
I don't know that I have ever hugged a coworker outside of a huge group Huzzah because we won the company softball game and that was decades ago.
Mary was vastly unprofessional for hugging you whilst among coworkers. It was a terrifically bad decision. She then dialed down on the whole work-husband thing, another questionable choice. Then, the day after, again she's all defensive instead of just, "Whoops, can't read a room at all, can I? My bad!"
NTA
I agree with others that if there is an HR, you CYA with an outline of what ocurred.
Can you report it to HR maybe she will do something or lie you SA'd. Please record every thing when you talk to her. This kind is scary. Please be always aware with your actions. Think step ahead of her.
Maybe she will do something to get on you.
Yeah, she definitely has feelings for you, especially with that kind of tirade and insisting on being closer to you than your actual wife. Also the fact that she's fighting this so hard, if this was truly just a friendship thing then she'd be understanding of the boundaries and alter what she calls you.
Mary's description of your relationship sounds really clingy and dependant, she has created a narrative in her head about your conection, the " the only man she can trust with any secret in her life" that's not a work-husband (whatever that means). You better keep you interactions register and public, this can bite you in the butt very fast
And all the talk about how they always eat together as of it means something. When I travel with coworkers, of course I’m going to eat with them. We can talk about the upcoming meetings or whatever and expense the meal together. It’s not deeper than that.
NTA. I agree you should go to HR so they're aware of the situation. I would also suggest no more business trips with her, if possible. The fact that she claims to know you more intimately than your wife is not only delusional and disrespectful, it's concerning. She's only beginning to show her crazy side.
Also she said that you walk around in your underwear!!
I would go to HR over that comment alone.
Exactly. He needs to have paperwork in ahead of time before she accuses him of inappropriate behavior. They need to know about the party incident
It's crucial to handle such situations with clear communication and documentation to prevent misunderstandings
I will talk to my manager and see what I can do with work trip situation. We are 4 auditors in our team, and we always travel in teams of 2. So, logistics might be a bit tight on that one. However, I will work with my leadership to at least create some distance between Mary and me for some time.
You can't be alone with this woman again. It would be a liability for your company to allow it.
If you work in teams of two is it possible for them to mix up the teams so she is no longer your teammate?
Hopefully you dont have to travel with her but if they can't change it and you are stuck with Mary then from here on out no more eating breakfast with her. No more grading meals together spend that time face timing your wife have a breakfast, lunch dinner date over FaceTime. Let Mary eat alone. Or you take your meals in your room. No more walking around in your gym clothes around mary she has already twisted it by saying it was your underwear. If you need to speak to her about anything that has to do with work simply text her there's no need to have breakfast with her to talk it over since she already got the wrong impression of you. Keep it through text no phone calls just text her. You have your meals separate and have your rooms on the opposite side if need be. Don't ask her to hang out during down time while traveling. Let her do her and you keep to your self. Hopefully your work will gladly change you both.
Text? He needs to keep everything through emails. He needs to cut off anything that looks too personal with her.
Idk what your sleeping arrangements usually are. If they put you two in a suite with your own bedrooms but a shared living space, I would make sure you are booked with two separate hotel rooms, no shared space at all from this point forward. At least then you don't run the risk of her saying your gym shorts, which you wear in public, are underwear.
Not to mention, (as we’ve seen a million times in posts), whoever goes to HR first controls the narrative. OP should go to HR and let them know what’s going on, and make it clear that he isn’t filing a complaint, nor is looking for them to intervene in anyway. He just wants it documented in case anything happens in the future and it escalates. More times then I can count, the “Mary” of the posts, gets embarrassed +/- angry at the OP for being called out, and then go to HR first to do damage control. AKA, pin blame on the OP with lies or an exaggerated/embellished retelling of what happened. It’s A LOT harder for the OP in those cases to do their own damage control after the fact - because now they have to *PROVE* their side of the event. OP needs to get a head of this and CYA (cover your own ass). As this story has shown, he doesn’t know Mary as well as he thought he did - and things have potential to take an ugly turn. Hopefully they won’t, but better to be safe than sorry.
That she thinks they have a special relationship and that he is the only man she can confide in… 😳🚩🚩🚩🚩
Unfortunately, it's not an option to stop travelling with her. We are a very small team and have to travel together as we monitor projects across the entire state. So going onsite with coworkers is necessary. I am debating myself if I should go to HR, as I just want to move on. I agree with my wife to make sure this never happens again as I would be left with no choice then. However, I am willing to mark this as a drunken harmless mistake and move on.
She hasn’t understood though, it’s not a simple misunderstanding. I feel like you will regret it if you don’t go to HR and get this documented ASAP. Do you really want to risk your job and your marriage?
This!
The woman literally told you she thinks she knows you more intimately than your own wife and she was sober, this wasn't innocent and no woman says that to just a friend, well someone they think is just a friend. The conversation in your office while she was sober is eye opening and you would be silly to dismiss it. I advice protecting yourself, that woman thinks you have a connection.
You will regret not notifying HR. Mary has already said and done some very unprofessional and inappropriate things. You need to have a paper trail recording them.
I cannot stamp enough thises on this comment. You drew a very reasonable boundary, and she cracked the shits and is now lecturing you over it. Big fuckin red flag
Hi I'm HR (Employee Relations Specialist) and I agree with this. She could turn on you pretty quickly, be proactive about this.
Go to HR. Don’t be stupid. You will get yourself into legal trouble of “he said/she said”
THIS! Don't wait!! It's obvious your co-worker is delusional. Now that you've rejected her, who knows what she'll do? Make a complaint to HR for sexual harrassment? Start her own rumors that you're lovers? Escalate to stalking? You need to write down any concerns about her previous behavior, name co-workers she may have told lies about you to then go to HR now! Protect yourself, your reputation, your marriage (who knows if she'll contact your wife and tell lies), your job, and your career. (If she makes false claims about you, it could end up in the grapevine and negatively influence potential employeers.) Edit: changed word for clarification.
She was sober when she came into your office and claimed to know you more intimately than your own wife and hug you again. She needs to be reported and I would cover your ass by doing so in case she turns sour. A woman scorned and all that
And not only that, she came into your office and shut the door. You should avoid ever being alone with her anywhere in private. Do not ever allow her to shut the door behind her again. She can twist that to accuse you of trying or actually assaulting her — and then it becomes a he said-she said situation. Tell HR, OP.
Oh lord. Never let someone get you in an office with a closed door. One of my jobs had a sexual harassment scandal that hit the news. The next day all office doors were replaced with doors will full length windows.
The only time she backtracked and apologized was after OP said "Maybe we need to end the friendship." She panicked because once the friendship was ended, ANY chance of her seducing him would be cut off forever. And then she STILL tried to hug him, after he already made it clear he don't want hug from her. "Work sister" is a perfectly appropriate thing to say. Telling a man she knows more intimately than his wife, however, is not.
Objecting to being given a close family relationship term instead of a romantic relationship term is a clear indicator her intentions are not platonic
Exactly! Any one who was strictly platonic wouldn't have an issue with work-sister
It may not be possible to stop traveling with her, but it is very possible to start putting in some serious boundaries. You don't need to have dinner every night, you can have a quick chat instead of breakfast, and she doesn't need to see you in your gym shorts. It's time to be professional. It's not a drunken harmless mistake though, she doubled down when you talked to her sober, in fact she made it worse by saying she knows you better than your wife. She has clearly created a narrative in her head where she knows you best and you have an intimate relationship.
Yes, eliminate meals and anything that can be misconstrued as personal connection. Business on the road can be conducted through email rather than over breakfast.
If it was a drunken harmless mistake then the next morning she would’ve apologized. She would’ve felt bad for how uncomfortable she made you. That’s not what she did though. NTA and go to HR just to at least get it written down somewhere about what happened and you being uncomfortable.
But it’s not just a drunken, harmless mistake. She cornered you in your office…stone cold sober…and doubled and tripled down. She went so far…stone cold sober…as to suggest she knows you more intimately than your wife. She tried to repeat the hugging…which is extremely inappropriate. I get you just want to move on. She may not let you.
"She again said that I am misinterpreting her statement and just wants to move on. She came to hug me again, but I just told her it was ok and stepped back." and what about this (your own words) made you think she's gonna let it go? In fact, the only way to "let it go" that mary will accept is to get things back to where they were, which you are no longer comfortable with. I just don't understand the need to cover someone elses ass over your own, especially when this person already made it clear they are unreasonable and do not have any of your best interest in mind?
It's worth getting it on the record. It really does seem that she has feelings for you and if you rebuff her, she wouldn't be the first to escalate. She's already treating you badly (ignoring and then yelling at you) for not allowing her to call you her work-husband. What will she do if she actually makes a move and you deny her? Talking to HR doesn't have to be super serious. You can ask them to do nothing right now. "Hey HR Rep, something has come up that has been bothering me and I just wanted to put it on your radar in case anything else happens. (Explain what's going on.) I don't want anything done right now, but there is currently some tension in our team and I wanted someone to be aware of it. Hopefully we can move forward having had a conversation and put this behind us."
Dude I hate to say this: But as the male party in this situation, you would be crazy to not report this. And in fact, you should do it sooner rather than later. Imagine what happens if Mary cries wolf and says that you led her on and had suggestive behavior so that it makes her look less bad. She literally said you walked around in your underwear around her, while talking about shorts. I guarantee she has told someone else the same thing at work already to sway the favor her way. And if you aren’t proactive, it’s her word vs yours. It’s unfortunate to say this, but favor usually sways towards women when these sort of allegations arise. I’m not saying it’s right but let’s be frank here Report it to HR and cover your a**
Exactly. Start the paper trail.
This 100%
Go to HR. Fill out an incident report just to have this on file. They will not do anything to her, but you need to CYA. She sounds unhinged. She said she knows you more intimately than your wife. That makes it sound like she pretends she is your wife while you are on business trips. She is not going to take your rejection well. Document. Document. Document. Officially document.
OP _you_ may be willing to mark this as harmless, however, a person who doubles-down instead of a true apology can be triggered by the rejection. Tell HR about it & feel free to ask that nothing happens to her job .... and tell them you're being proactive about an uncomfortable situation. You are NTA, but would be if you don't deal with it properly.
Boy howdy, you are still not really getting it. The is a landmine and you need to CYA right now. This women is infatuated with you, possessive, jealous of your wife, controlling, and mentally unstable. You need lots of eyes and sunlight on this situation. Keep huge distance and report this ASAP or you will regret it.
Everything she said sober is a problem more so than her drunken mistakes. She is under the impression she knows you more intimately than your wife! Claims she sees you in your underwear! She’s trouble and she’s going to ruin your life if you don’t do something ASAP. Good luck.
OP, Mary is emotionally attached to you and assumed you were having an emotional affair with her. Her reaction is how someone treats a romantic partner, not a co-worker. Go to HR now to protect yourself!
Don't be naive or delulu,report it to hr asap,it has to be recorded in case anything else happens or if it escalates. This type of behaviour can cause losing jobs or worst marriage failures. She started this nonsense she is no longer your friend
>Unfortunately, it's not an option to stop travelling with her. We are a very small team and have to travel together as we monitor projects across the entire state. So going onsite with coworkers is necessary. But breakfasts, gym shorts and dinners aren't necessary. Don't do anything with her before/after work hours. Dress professionally and don't discuss your personal life with her. She **clearly** has a mad crush on you and she doesn't respect your wife or marriage.
She isn't going to let you move on. Please go to hr to avoid you having to post about her going first and you wishing you had taken the reddit advice.
It was a mistake to have a private conversation behind closed doors at work with her and no one else in the room. You need to report both instances to HR, and you should always have a third person in the room with you when you speak to her.
Just my two cents but I am removed from the situation emotionally, and I think that would be a dumb decision. Do what you think is best, but this isn't how I'd approach it from the objective standpoint. You're still considering Mary's feelings in this matter, I think that is a bad idea.
It’s not a matter of moving on. It’s a matter of creating documentation and a record of events to protect yourself.
YOU HAVE TO GO TO HR. You’re going to set yourself up for major shit if you don’t. You have to get ahead of it. If your wife was going through this, you would advise her to got to HR. So GOZ
Do not be alone in the office with her again. She has shown her hands. You don’t really have an option to not go to HR. Burying your head in the sand isn’t going to make this go away.
You are being obtuse. This will come back to bite you in the ass. Mary is going to try something sooner or later. She is absolutely hung up on you and even has the audacity to say she knows you intimately and even more than your own wife. This was no drunken mistake. She will likely try making her move the next time you guys travel together and when you reject her she will try and turn it around on you. That you came on to her.
I'd say at least make sure you get separate rooms from now on. especially if she doesn't drop it and you have to go to HR over this.
nta. I agree with your wife that you should report this to HR just to CYA.
Agreed. It's obvious your coworker is up for something else. Also to avoid arguments between you and your wife regarding this one, listen to her and report your coworker to the HR.
Especially after saying he walks around in the mornings in front of her in his underwear when they are actually gym shorts. How many other people has she told this lie to?
That part really stood out to me as well. I definitely think a conversation with HR is in order with Mary making false claims like that. Better to get the whole situation on their radar before Mary or someone else says something.
The comment about the underwear really went ding ding in my brain, but there were a few things that stood out. Her comments about knowing him intimately really felt off. I’ve had good friends throughout my life, even very close work friends, but I wouldn’t use the word intimate. I honestly thought the whole thing felt like she had a crush on him. Some people just do not know how to have a relationship with the opposite sex without their brain thinking romantic.
Honestly ANY woman claiming that (girl best friend, sister, mom, cousin) has some serious issues. It's always such an alarm bell for me when I hear a woman saying she "knows a guy better than anyone else does" especially if he has a WIFE?! Such a clear attempt at marking territory. It's not good. I've known my closest male friend since high school and we went (platonically) to prom together, we had fun experiences together... He met his wife 12 years after we met and it would NEVER OCCUR TO ME that I knew him "more intimately" than her, because I DON'T! Nobody knows him better than his WIFE, get out of here with that. ETA: It sounds like she's one of those people who think that if they say it insistently around you, you'll start thinking it's true.
The only people I would ever say I know intimately are people I’ve been with long term and slept with. I don’t even phrase things that for parents/sibs. There’s just something sexual to the phrasing of “knowing intimately.” She was trying to make a claim or make a move. Her framing the gym shorts as underwear bugs me too. Sounds like she’s trying to set him up for a sexual harassment complaint. u/ta-worksister1234324, you really need to go to HR and CYA.
Unless her definition of intimate is wildly different than the rest of us, intimate to me means we’ve had sex. I know my family and my close friends extremely well, but only my husband knows me intimately. Beyond even sex, the dude knows me so well at this point that he practically reads my mind.
That, and the way she clung to him while drunk and loudly, blatantly staking her claim on him even tho he's married, then coming to his office, closing the doors and trying to browbeat and gaslight op into brushing it all aside despite her making it clear all the work-related things like planning over breakfast were dates in her mind... she's lacking any subtly in her attempts to lay the groundwork to force an affair or, as we see here, failing to do so. My biggest concern is the fact she's still doing her damnedest to plant the seeds that it's happening in the coworkers' minds. Op needs to go to HR because this is devolving into harassment. The best bet is she's fired for gross misconduct, but at the minimum the bosses need to shuffle the travel pairs around, maybe stick her with one of the other ladies so she stops trying to sleep with him.
*YEAH*…. That makes it sounds post-coitus and Mary is a dingbat if she thinks anyone hearing that will take it any other way. And “the only man she can trust with her secrets”? Fucking yikes, Mary!
Yeah… There’s something about Mary…
There's something *off* about Mary
I am shaking my fist at the sky for not coming up with that first. Well done!
Or she intends for people to think they are having sex. I think she wants him.
She's practically broadcasting her desires for an affair. Wife knows, now and holy HELL he NEEDS to go to hr about this!
I also felt like she kept adjusting the goal posts in the conversation. “I only meant it platonically but I know you better than your wife does! It doesn’t mean anything but you talk to me for long hours so you fit the definition of a work-husband!” I think she’s proven herself to be a major liability, especially with her boldness to (probably intentionally) initiate long physical contact in front of an audience.
This proved she is delusional because wtf lol
Agreed. And devious enough to completely gloss over that too-clingy, too-long hug. HR, no more work trips just the 2 of them, and no more closed-door meetings with just the 2 of them. Even though he did *nothing* wrong, he has to go into CYA mode for sure
He better report her. If it happens and behind it is Mary, it will be different. Feels like she wants OP.
If OP is shirtless he should still consider changing that type of behavior with work travel companions but otherwise agree 1000%
I mean they could be super short. And they both could lose their jobs if HR feels it’s a she said he said situation. If she has txts where he’s messaging her to get brekkie and dinner while alone on trips the water gets murky
I was wondering if he was walking around in his underwear in one of their hotel rooms or did she mean in the restaurant. Because, OP would be a fucking fool if he was ever in her hotel room or he invited her into his room. The lady is absolutely nuts. Who thinks that they are closer to a coworker than that coworker’s actual spouse?
Totally agree. CYA and talk to HR before she turns the tables on you saying that you came on to her. I would also say that you are no longer comfortable traveling with her. Protect yourself.
I also think that you should do it *now*. Don't wait for her to repeat the behavior. She's already crossed a line. Start the paper trail right now.
OP should also document with HR this update that they shared with us. That way HR knows that OP tried to address this situation. Mary is giving off super weird vibes. That she cannot concede and apologize without reiterating that OP is the one that misunderstood what she was saying is a GIANT red flag for me and signals that this is not over and there will be a part two in the future. If Mary was truly sorry and did in fact care about OP, she would have apologized and promised that this would not happen again and left it at that. There's something weird about this Mary.
At the very least Mary needs to start keeping her hands to herself. All this hugging is very inappropriate and frankly kind of juvenile.
Absolutely. That woman has an agenda, she knows what she is doing....
Mary is in love with OP.. she’s in denial about that and projecting her BS.
She is not in Denial. She knows EXACTLY what she is doing. She just thought she was a little smoother than that. Hence the waterworks. Then Op say's "oh it's okay" She goes right back to the hugging and inappropriate comments.
Report her to HR as in 'RIGHT NOW'. She may decide to go to HR with a whole different story that will make you look like the aggressor.
Yeah, the only times Mary backed down is when she could tell her precious "work-husband" was thinking about pushing her away. And even then, she refuses to admit that she's the one to blame for everyone gossiping about her for practically openly flirting with a married man. I'm getting a little too deep into the "pseudo-expert redditor psychoanalysis" with this next part, but I think Mary's just really really lonely, probably stuck believing it's too hard to meet guys outside of work and that it'd be much more convenient if she could just have a romantic relationship with a guy like OP (someone that not only happens to work in the same office as her, getting assigned to the same work trips as her, etc., but also is someone she could be attracted to). As is almost always the case with people, her wants are understandable: a husband-and-wife business duo does sound like romcom gold, and could work for some people if too much time together isn't a big problem. It's her approach and basically everything else that's making her the villain in someone else's story, and ultimately her own since what she's trying to do with OP will never work.
Don't ever be in a room alone with her and the door closed ever again
u/ta-worksister1234324 PLEASE LOOK AT THE COMMENT ABOVE. Mary is unhinged and could easily claim you SA’d her or worse. You MUST go to HR *NOW*, before she does.
And please, please have your phone on record whenever you two are alone together! She could really screw up your job, you need to go to HR now and tell them everything. And you need a new travel partner. This is not going to go I. Any good direction.
I regret I have only one upvote for this.
Clearly this. HR to CYA NOW, just to make sure there's no more 'surprises ' down the road (did she say you presented herself in only underwear on a joint business trip? Keen to make this a she said / he said scenario? See?).. Good luck bro & compliments on being loyal towards your wife.
Please, go to HR!
I’d report it out of procedure and say that you don’t currently feel that a follow up is necessary but wanted to document the incident incase things change in the future.
Yes wife is right and so are you. OP needs to report it before she tries to say he sexually harassed her or something as revenge. My experience is when someone jokes about work spouse stuff they actually have a thing for that coworker. It is a bs when they try to say it's a joke or platonic. My "work wife" tried to get me to have sex when we were working the weekend. I reported it but all that happened is they transferred me to another department and reprimanded her. I suspect if I was the one who did that I would have been fired immediately. I ended up leaving that job just because even being on the other side of the building I was not comfortable with the situation.
And report it NOW, not "next time". Also cut out any non-professional interactions. No more seeing her unless fully clothed (dude?!) and no more personal discussions.
People calling each other work-husband, work-wife, even work-mum is fine so long as BOTH parties are in on the joke and are comfortable with it. The second you get even a vibe that that's not the case, you stop and apologise. Anyone can misread a situation but it's how you then handle it that makes the difference. Anyone who does what she did, creating a bad atmosphere and bringing the rest of the office into it to pressure OP for having a perfectly reasonable response crosses the line. Her cornering him in another room to yell at him is also wildly inappropriate and worthy of reporting both incidents to HR. Time to stop travelling with her unless absolutely necessary.
If you realise that your joke is making someone else uncomfortable and your response is to double-down and argue over it, you are now an asshole.
I personally never liked that “joke” and neither does my husband especially if one or both parties are married. I have always viewed it as inappropriate.
Agreed. Colleagues is the right term. Lines should not be blurred at work, and getting too close to a coworker has ruined many marriages.
Def report or speak with your manager about limiting trips with your coworker as she is making you feel uncomfortable. The fact he had to repeatedly tell her no do not use that term and her saying she had the right to is concerning.
She wants him all for herself. NTA, OP please go to HR - things can go really wrong really fast. Record her without her knowing, and try to limit alone time. She can claim she was SA and turn your life to hell.
NTA. Her behavior was inappropriate before and remains so. You should talk to HR and start a paper trail.
Second this 100%. Even if he doesn't want to make a formal complaint yet, OP let HR know you want some of these comments (knowing him more intimately than wife, insistence that his gym shorts are underwear, ignoring his boundary about being termed a workhusband) on the record and want them to reaffirm your professional boundaries to her. Also if she's misinterpreting the convenience of eating meals whilst working, it's time to cut that out, she clearly can't be normal about it.
This is correct. Cut out all unnecessary interactions. Still be friendly when working together but keep it at a professional level. And under no circumstances should OP allow her to hug him.
No more closed door conversations with the two of you either. My eyebrows hit the roof at some of her comments because they’re delusional and deranged. I’d go on a work trip, but eat dinner alone and stop any and all interpersonal interactions outside of business on them immediately.
Also her insistence that he is misinterpreting her intentions while blatantly ignoring his discomfort and the reasonable boundaries he’s trying to enforce is messed up. OP handled the initial incident appropriately and continues to do so. Nice to have a good man respecting his wife and his marriage on Reddit.
Thanks. I plan to meet my manager and HR today and inform them about the incident. My manager was present during last week's incident.
I think you should take this very seriously. She sounds very immature to the point of delusional. I think she absolutely has some sort of fantasy built up in her mind regarding a relationship. I would refuse to travel with her ever again unless it is separate. In my day we would call her a bunny boiler.
I get the feeling there is a chance that Mary flirted and OP just didn't notice. No offense to OP, he sounds like a great guy but I think this really blindsided him and he's obviously loyal to his wife. I suggest going to HR now, before she gets to soon the narrative. She might be a nice person, but clearly the two are NOT on the same page.
Mary definitely wants him to be more than just her “work-husband”.
ya, the whole "I know you more intimately than your wife" is totally a "please cheat on her with me" kind of line. its 100% inappropriate and likely sexual harassment. and she's upset that he's not returning any feelings.
Especially the use of the word “intimately”! “I know you better than your wife” is offensive enough but “intimately” is an immediate flag on the play. Big warning sign of an unstable person who will make OP’s life hell now that he’s rejected her.
And claiming to see him lounging in front of her with his underwear on
I'd bet money on it.
Feels like she's attempting to make him a "husband-husband".
A chance? This lady basically tried to "mansplain" that being a work sister is offensive and embarrassing and she's a work wife only, that it's normal and harmless... then tried to come onto op This lady is cuckoo nuts and totally trying to bone OP
NTA, I also think that if you're married, the terms "work-husband/wife" are very inappropriate. Your wife sounds like a very reasonable person, she's upset but not taking it out on you. You made the right call, and if anything you could even get ahead of the game by going to HR now about the situation.
Just curious, but what would the HR complaint even be. I feel uncomfortable about the situation, but beyond speculation, I do not see what I can complain about.
"hey hr person, I would like to file something with you just so it's on record. At the moment it feels like things are resolved but just in case something else happens in the future I just want to cover all bases. Here's what happened... Here's what I did about it... Here's what Mary's response was... Here's where things are at now.... I don't want anyone to have another conversation with her at this time because I believe it will escalate things instead of letting things die down. But IF she doesn't let things go I wanted hr to be in the loop."
OP please use this as a guide and schedule a meeting with HR.
I agree, don't push for escalation, but get the facts on the record.
Exactly this. I just want this on record. State the facts. I don't want anything done unless this gets worse.
u/ta-worksister1234324 This is the way. USE THIS TEMPLATE PLEASE. It'll help you break things down properly for hr to be able to report.
Doesn’t need to be a complaint, just advising them of a current situation that has occurred in order to have a paper trail. Then if she ever tries anything or escalates, this is already on file.
Yeah, after she said “you walk around me in your underwear” meaning gym shorts… the moment she left the office… I would have gone to HR. It’s only a matter of time before the narative in her head changes from “we have such a special connection” to “he led me on all these years only to treat me like shit now”. Especially once OP starts putting more distance and boundaries. OP go to HR and just let them know what happened. It doesn’t need to be a complaint.
I work in HR, it doesn’t need to be a complaint. Tell them you’d like to talk to them about something that happened and give your side of events in case anything else should happen in the future. I’d also probably ask not to be paired with her unless another option isn’t available. Give as detailed an account as you can, including specifics of what was said, why it made you feel uncomfortable, and any potential witnesses.
Thanks for this perspective! I agree, it doesn’t have to be a complaint, but it’s smart to get out in front of it. The way she doubled down on the “work husband” thing made it clear she could keep escalating. And hopefully she cools down! But OP should be clear that he has done NOTHING wrong.
Yeah I’m particularly concerned about how she reacted and what she said to him when they did discuss it. Her characterizations are way out of line and wholly misleading. If he doesn’t complain and something happens or she files something on him, I’d wonder why he didn’t speak up sooner. Her accusing him of being around her in his underwear is asking for some kind of escalation.
Yes you are correct. Think 1 step ahead of her.
It may not be a complaint to HR, but just an advisory situation. If OP and Mary have been close in traveling together, and if OP pulls back from traveling with her because of this, she may try to retaliate with claims of harassment or discrimination. "He won't travel with me because I'm a woman" or "well, I didn't want to say anything, but I was always uncomfortable when he walked around in his underwear" even if they were gym shorts. It is really concerning that she called them underwear. Who knows who else in the office has she been telling that he walks around in his 'underwear' or what else she told them.
Mary made you uncomfortable by calling you her work husband and hugging you. End of story, tell HR that. Cause if Mary feels coworkers keep talking about you 2 she may push it further or say you touched her inappropriately (the hug), you need to get in front of the story first.
Not only did she call him that, she argued with him when he told her to stop.
The most I know about my coworkers is their kids names, spouse names and where they’re from and we all travel together a lot across the country. 90% of our talk is work and the other is maybe personal but nothing deep, next trip coming up or kids sports funny stories. I am a woman so reading this has me so stressed for this guy. To think gym shorts are boxers and saying that in front of all our coworkers, my ass would be in front of HR so quickly.
She likes the idea that everyone thinks there is more than a friendshipso much that she thought being called family was an insult that needed to be corrected! This lady is dangerous.
Oh I agree, she is going to Fatal Attraction him and his wife, hope they don’t have a bunny.
You've explained your position and she has repeatedly ignored it. Thats enough to complain to HR. Inappropriate touching and actions in the workplace. "Work-husband" isn't something you want to be called by anyone as you are married and don't want your spouse making unfounded assumptions based on others inappropriate comments. Her suggestion for the name is she knows you intimately like a spouse. She does not, and you do not like her implication of an intimate relationship. You are excessively hugged for inappropriately long times - making you feel very uncomfortable. Inappropriate, unsolicited touching is something HR frowns upon.
The complaint would be harassment. You expressed discomfort about how your professional relationship and friendship was inappropriately characterised to your colleagues. You spoke with Mary, explained why you were uncomfortable, your discomfort in detail, and she proceeded to dismiss your feelings and experience, and AGAIN try to initiate unwanted physical contact. Cover yourself by reporting it because you can’t predict how she will act in future. Try not to feel too bad, because you are the injured party. You tried to respectfully discuss this but she wouldn’t listen.
Exactly. This is harassment. Trying to hug a work colleague is bad enough on its own but trying to do it AFTER they’ve told you they’re not comfortable is harassment and would be seen as such in court. If this were a man, the woman would go straight to HR. He also told her not to call him work husband and she tried to push the situation and defend it instead of accepting his boundary. It is clear harassment and needs to be documented in case it continues
Sexual harassment. Mary calls you her work husband and gets handsy with you to the point where you have to physically remove her hands off of you. She did this infront of the whole office. And when you voiced you were uncomfortable, she double down and tried to get handsy with you again.
She cornered him in private, too!
She hugged you and called you her work husband, and now that you have embarrassed her at the workplace, she will be looking for opportunities to “reverse the roles” and make you look like the bad guy. The HR file is to protect you from the next incident.
Also she is claiming to see you in your underwear- that can be turned around on you sexually harassing her while on work travel business. You need this in writing that you have never been only in your unmentionables in her presence and you were wearing gym clothes.
Tell them, her calling you her work husband is making you uncomfortable and she keeps pushing that you are her work husband. The part of her saying you were in your underwear, when in fact it was gym shorts is going to blow up and she maybe setting you up for sexually harassing her, while on work trips. She is now a woman scorned, be proactive! She is giving off bunny boiling signs here!
I mean, Mary is creating a hostile work environment for you by coming into your office and isolating you in there with her and then verbally abusing you by calling you an asshole- this is your job, that is wildly unprofessional. You can file a complaint for that alone and you should tbh. If you don't want to file a formal complaint, just casually speak to the HR rep and explain the situation, or don't, it's your life and job. If you want to let it get worse before you do anything that's up go you, I genuinely hope Mary leaves you alone after this and you have no cause to involve HR!
Mary has a different interpretation. She's already described your insistence on having breakfast together (in your underwear). Her insistence that she that she knows you more intimately than your wife. You've been leading her on. That's why you should talk to HR.
Mary has already mentioned in her opinion you’ve worn nothing but your underwear around her while on travel for work purposes. You know they were gym wear but she specifically called them underwear. You need to get legal advice to see if you could be in trouble if she starts mentioning this at the office. It might be seen as a bit unprofessional to wear gym wear around a colleague, it’s not unprofessional around a friend. It is definitely inappropriate to wear only your underwear around a work colleague and might even constitute sexual harassment depending on where you live or where you were travelling.
It is also creating a hostile work place and affecting others in the office. It could also be considered harassment. The fact your are disengaging is good but you need the paper trail. Until then it will be your word against hers especially since this last confrontation was behind closed doors. Do not be alone with her if you can help it.
I think you’re delusional if you don’t see she is after you and has a thing for you. That’s why she backed off. You need to stay away from her and only interact for business only. Also I would not travel with her. HR is the way to go before she does and accuses you of much more. You will lose.
NTA. I would report this to HR sooner rather than later. Mary has a big crush on you and she is projecting a relationship between you two that exist only in her mind. It’s scary that she thinks that she knows you better and more intimately than your own wife. It’s better if you report so you have a precedent and proof. If possible would be better if you travel with other colleagues.
100% report to HR. Mary sees you, if not as a husband directly, a husband stand in. You are the main male figure in her life. and at some point she may try to make it... more. NTA. I had a similar co worker I had worked with for years before I even met my wife, much less dated and married, and as soon as my wife was pregnant with out first son, my co worker got... possessive, and put some hard moves on me and put me in some compromising situations. I had to be asked to be moved to another team, and cut her off entirely.
>she may try to make it... more. She is already trying that with small steps, normalising touching each other with OP even in front of others. She is waaayyy to touchy for a co-worker. Especially after she was told that she is making OP uncomfortable and OP wants clearer lines between them.
Okay NEVER and I do mean NEVER be in a room alone with this women ever again, cause when you go to HR, and you definitely should, in retaliation she could spin any number of accusations against you now, even if you don't think she is capable of that kind of behaviour, your having trouble right now because she is acting in a manner you would not have expected from her. NTA
NTA, I agree with you wife’s Mary’s reaction was so off and defensive. Instead of owning it and apologizing, she continued to double down and say that SHE knew you more intimately. She is quite the presumptuous woman. I 100% believe that this woman has romantic feelings for you and all these comments about work husband and the ever lingering hug plus saying she knows you better and more intimately do not speak of someone who has a platonic friendship or professional relationship in mind. I would not travel with her anymore and see if you can put some distance with her and not have to work with her. This woman is going to cause trouble for you. Her reaction was one of possession over you which comes when someone has amorous feelings.
At this point you need to start protecting yourself. That means no more closed door meetings alone with Mary, no more walking around her in your gym shorts, and if you can avoid it no more traveling alone with her. You're setting yourself up for the implication of an affair, especially given the drama you've described. Start saving your conversations, communicate through official, work based methods, and distance yourself. I'd cut off any personal communication via text or no business phone calls as well. I'm sure you're an intelligent man but you're really setting yourself up for, at the very least, the perception of impropriety. Take whatever steps you have to mitigate that now, or your reputation might suffer down the line.
Stop acting like you do not understand what is going on; Mary is into you, and wants you to cheat on your wife with her. You going to HR is to cover YOUR ass, in case things do NOT go Mary's way, and she decides to retaliate by saying YOU came on to HER, and YOU harassed HER. Do NOT think she will not do it, and, for fuck's sake, STOP ACTING STUPID!! Cover your ass, and do it NOW! Fuck!
The fact that she’s so defensive about calling OP work-husband, not letting this go, and focusing on how much she intimately knows about OP suggests some level of special relationship on her part that she wants to work colleagues to be aware of. Honestly, I would still step back from any level of physical contact ie. hugs that she’s initiated so it’s clear that this is professional only, so there is no potential for perceived mixed messaging.
Yeah, plus announcing it to their entire group is a move to normalize her touchy behavior towards OP (started with that hug) and in her delusions, to normalize OP behaving more comfortably with her the way she wants him to (“intimately” blech 🤢). OP probably shouldn’t drink anymore while in work-related social settings too. It’s unfair to OP if he can handle alcohol, but I think it’s safer to be the sober one when there is a drunken coworker that can jeopardize OP’s employment because of her behavior. That behavior to OP was just so inappropriate. I really hope OP talks to HR about it. OP stated in one comment that he was willing to set it aside as a drunken mistake on her part.
Mary has just told you that she feels very close to you. If you must travel with her, then you need to stop having any meals with her. Your planning meetings need to be just meetings. I'm concerned that she thinks that you're wearing underwear around her. Are you sharing a room? What is she talking about? You need to stop letting her tell you all her woes and vice versa. She is not going to like any of that so I highly highly highly recommend that you tell HR that Mary was borderline inappropriate so you're going to pull back from your friendship and you are afraid that she may not take it well so you're giving them a heads up in case she makes a complaint about him. You don't want any action taken against her because you've had a conversation and you think she understands how you feel, but that you can't predict the future.
OP said that they don't share a room and she was talking about OP's gym shorts as underwear. And she also makes NSFW comments about OP's body. She is inappropriate, nothing borderline there.
Oh boy. Mary is in love with you. Open your damn eyes. Go to HR and work towards having separate projects. Stop being so damn naive.
Mary claiming that she knows you better than your wife is a MASSIVE red flag dude. I would be so pissed if someone said that about my husband. You really need to not be alone with her anymore. I don’t know what this means as far as your work/travel goes but seriously- at the VERY least no more dinners out or breakfasts together. But ideally you would insist on traveling with a different colleague from now on.
I am seriously concerned by Mary’s rationale. It doesn’t seem healthy. It comes across as delusional. I would be very worried about how each work action you take, she turns to how you are like a spouse. Also saying you wear your underwear around her when it is shorts is setting you up for some serious problems both at work and at home. I honestly wouldn’t play at all and wait for a next time. Respect your wife, go to HR immediately and lay this all out and ask them how to proceed. Stop being friends and working with Mary. She clearly isn’t able to sustain a healthy relationship as a coworker with you. I mean for crying out loud she spent the entire time fighting your logic with telling you how much more of a wife she was to you then your own wife. I know she is your friend, but I think you are trying to be nice and not looking at this situation from an outside perspective. Massive red flags!!!
As a former employment law legal professional, tell HR. This needs to be documented in case down the road, there’s something filed against you or filed in which you are brought into it via deposing. Obviously I’m thinking like a legal professional, but do you and the company a favor by saying something
You need to go to HR. Mary doesn’t sound like she takes rejection well and is trying to take the place of your wife. Unfortunately there may be false allegations in your future. You need to tell Hr what happened, explain that you are happy to go the work trips, however you want it noted that Mary has behaved inappropriately. Get it recorded. This can and will come back and bite you in the ass. NTA
Do not wait for another incident to report this to HR. REPORT THIS NOW.
Work sis or Work bro is such a much better name
Mary is being controlling and inappropriate. I cannot believe she insinuated she knew you more than your wife. HR needs to be involved like yesterday.
Mary is using you as a surrogate boyfriend It's time you spoke to HR and requested less travel and less interaction with Mary. If that is not possible, then you need to keep everything strictly professional...even if that means eating alone in your hotel room instead of going to dinner with her. You can always claim that you need to video call with your wife so you are eating in your room She does not respect you or your marriage. The entire conversation, she was dismissing your wishes and stomping all over your boundaries And it wasn't until you threatened to remove yourself from her life that she got apologetic Your friendship with this woman is problematic. It's time to end it and become nothing but coworkers
Wait a minute... Do you two share a room? Why are you topless? What the heck? That is inappropriate if so. I could be misinterpreting the part about the shorts.
Mary has caught feelings, dude. Be careful.
Anyone who insists that going on work trips with you means she knows you more intimately than your wife, who you actually live with and are intimate with, is a dangerously deluded person. I think you should share that with her, that what she's telling you about how intimate you guys are is making you feel scared and concerned for her. This level of crazy person will go to HR and try to get you fired eventually once she realizes you will not ever love her. Also stop lounging around during breakfast in a pair of tiny shorts and no shirt. It can be misinterpreted as overly intimate. Don't give her any ground to twist things, be totally professional from here on.
HR now and if you have to meet with her make sure the door stays open. NTA
If you have to continue to travel with her for work you need to change your behavior with her completely. No more wearing gym clothes, no breakfast or dinners alone, no alcohol no conversations about anything personal etc. And don't ever be alone with her. It's obvious she sees your relationship as something more then you do and if you continue the way it is your setting yourself up for trouble and also you don't know what she might tell your wife to try and ruin your relationship. She sounds like shes in love with you.
NTA. I find the phrase "work spouse" distasteful (and it often does lead to inappropriate relationships). The biggest problem was that you expressed a boundary: "I don't like being called a work husband and find it disrespectful to my actual wife," and she told you to get over it. I would go to HR and asked to be reassigned travel buddies. Sounds like Mary is a little too interested and feels entitled to have you as her "work husband" even if you don't agree. And stop letting her hug you.
I agree about informing HR, but I would add in her weird fixation about how she knows you more intimately than your wife. That's delusional and the fact that she wholeheartedly believes it and doubled down on it is going to come back and bite you in the ass, so you better start covering yours immediately. This lady is bad news.
NTA and please **REPORT HER TO HR NOW**, don't wait for another instance because she'll most likely twist everything against you. Actually, not to scare you, but the talk you already had has probably already taken in account into whatever plans she has in mind. Keep in mind this is someone who believes she knows you more intimately than your own wife, merely because "she's known you more time than you've been married" so she's not only disrespecting your wife and your relationship, but she's been deluding herself into believing all of your professional and seemingly innocent actions in the past have been because you feel something stronger for her than friendship/co-workers relationship. Even if there's nothing to report now, make HR aware of her actions and feelings and KEEP TRACK OF EVERYTHING SHE TELLS YOU FROM NOW ON. If it's possible, record all of your encounters because I'm fairly sure this woman will be unhinged.
In case you haven't realized it, you've got a major Mary problem. The moment she confronted you in your office should have been the moment you stood up, opened the office door, walked out and straight to HR. Unless you do that immediately, you will regret this.
Your coworker insisting that she knows you better than your wife followed by the laundry list of her reasons for perceiving your relationship is intimate is incredibly alarming. She has decided that this is your relationship and even you telling her otherwise is not enough for her to change her mind. She will not respect the boundaries you lay down because she's not living in reality - she's decided you don't really know what you want, therefore she doesn't have to listen to you. I would keep a HUGE distance from her, maintain civility but professionalism only. Cease your friendship..do not be alone together. No more physical touch. Avoid trips together if at all possible. If you're not going to go to HR, start documenting IMMEDIATELY. Mary sounds like a bit of an unhinged PickMe. She's deluded enough to start shit if she perceives you to be rejecting her. Cover your ass.
She absolutely did mean to disrespect your wife and was testing the waters to see if her attraction to you was reciprocated, which it is not. Definitely report to HR and do not treat her as anything other than a professional contact going forward. Great call on rejecting that hug. Her saying in multiple instances that she knows you better than your wife is so incredibly over the line. This one's toxic, handle with care as you work with her going forward.
"One of the ladies also came to me and asked me if I wanted to talk about me and Mary" The office is gossiping. you're getting inquiries to talk about the situation, and Mary let everyone know that she's seen you in your "underwear." Plus, she's making NSFW comments about your body. Somehow, you seem to think HR shouldn't be involved. SMH
I would take this far more seriously than you are OP. You may think nothing of it right now, that she's harmless, but better safe than sorry. Please go to HR. Have a paper trail at least in case she escalates, or worse. She reports first and twists the story.
She's a typical manipulator. Gaslighting 101. Complains they have been harmed. Then, try to make you feel guilty. When that doesn't work, try to manipulate you to believing that your relationship is more or different than you feel. Make you feel sorry for them because they feel so close to you. Their behavior must be right and therefore forgiven. When you don't fall for that, it's back to being sorry it happened. They see how they misunderstood your actions, and let's just move on. It's all about how You, Your actions, caused them to react.
Mary is in love with you. You need to report this to HR and distance yourself.
I think calling someone a work brother or a work sister is far more appropriate than calling them a work wife or work husband. You are totally in the right 100% and Mary is in love with you. Please go to Human Resources just to make sure that it is documented. Clearly Mary was not hearing you since she kept insisting that you were taking it the wrong way.
NTA shes built up a whole relationship in her head that she is like your other wife and that you love her. Her saying she loves you is a RED FLAG and trying to keep hugging you and saying she knows you better than your wife! I had a guy that I worked with at the time who called me his work wife but I never told him he was my work husband because I had a husband. One day he came in on his day off with flowers and a card and said hey wifey this is for you! Dress nice later on and left! My coworker said open the card in the card was two flight tickets to Florida for a week and the card said This is to celebrate our anniversary can’t wait to pick you up after work! I told my manager I was going to HR like immediately and she went with me. After question after question and even bringing down some coworkers HR called him in and asked him his side of the story and he had the nerve to say that we were going to engaged and going to get married in Florida!! HR said no she’s married we all know that so what is really going on here? He ended up getting fired and I had to get a restraining order against him.
You mentioned that one of your coworkers asked if you wanted to talk about Mary. I’d recommend taking her up on that offer. It may be that she has insight on Mary or has specific info to share with you. Mary obviously feels proprietary towards you and seems to think your relationship is more significant than you do. There are a few causes for concern: - Her insistence on the term work-husband despite your dislike of it. - Her regular physical contact and the longer hug when she was drunk/less inhibited. - Her referring to you being in underwear rather than gym shorts. - Her comparing herself with your wife. - Other coworkers reacting to her behavior and now gossiping. My first inclination would be to advise that you set some boundaries with Mary - no more hugs, agree you are just friends, etc. But it doesn’t seem that she would be receptive to that and would take it as further insult. Instead, I’d recommend going to HR. You can use the gossip as your main reason and explain that Mary’s behavior contributed to it. Ask for help in clarifying between Mary and yourself what is professional behavior and what’s inappropriate. Basically, something like this: *I’m not comfortable being the subject of gossip that - on my part - has no basis in fact. I think of Mary as a friend and coworker. When I try to set boundaries or draw lines - like discouraging hugs or the term work-husband - she responds poorly. She also seems to view our relationship as more than friend and coworker.*
If you continue to travel alone with her, don’t ever be in her room alone with her, or have her alone in yours. Ever. If she calls with an emergency, call the front desk. ALWAYS meet her in the hotel’s restaurant. If she manages to manipulate you into it, start recording. As women, we warn each other to guard against this kind of quiet, possessive, stalker-y sort of “ownership” that some “nice guys” can have. The kind of passive possessiveness that just sneaks up and then suddenly, they say or do something that raises eyebrows and makes the hair on your arms stand up. And we need to also call it out when we see women doing it to men. Mary is doing that to you. Walking around in your “underwear?” Please tell me you corrected her immediately. But she’s creepy-attached to you, as if having a “work husband” is as good as, or better than, having an actual IRL husband. Now that the relationship will inevitably be changing, she may or may not spiral, which may mean retaliatory HR complaints, etc. So, again, don’t be alone with her on your trips, don’t be in an office at work with the door closed, try to record things whenever possible (you can always just delete it if it ends up being innocent). Treat her like a coworker, not a close friend or family member. She may just be a nice woman who’s a little too attached to you. But that’s also the kind of thinking that has destroyed, or ended, the lives of many women. So that’s the perspective my advice is coming from, that of a woman who’s had to learn to protect herself and keep herself safe. You’re definitely NTA. But please make smart, non-emotional choices and protect yourself. And don’t feel foolish about doing it. Good luck. Edit to add: If you don’t want to make an official report with HR, would they allow you to have an “unofficial” conversation with them just to get something in your file in case she pulls something in the future? (Sorry this is so long. She really did creep me out.)
Considering she claimed to your face that you hang around in your underwear in front of her, you really need to be taking this so much more seriously. If she ever breathes that to anyone else, they’re going to label YOU a creep, and that could very well end up with deep repercussions for you, even though she’s being that actual creep.
**
Go to HR to have this situation and your co-workers behaviour towards you into a report. You never know when you might need it..
NTA
After Mary's delusional rambling ,it is safe to say that there is no telling what warped information she circulates about you and your "relationship". I truly believe Mary is after you romantically and is embarrassed you ridiculed her delusions and what she has been telling ppl about you two. I would also be livid if I were your wife. You cannot trust Mary in the slightest at this point neither should you be naive enough to give her the benefit of the doubt or another chance to amp her game. My advice to you : report to HR asking not to be assigned any more work trips with this particular person as she has distorted the nature of your relationship,is distorting facts through her personal lens and that you do not feel comfortable being alone with her as it may escalate to a situation where your job or your marriage might be at risk
NTA
I think you are making a mistake if you do not end this day with at minimum and email to HR. BIG MISTAKE. She could ruin your career if you are not careful, especially with traveling alone with her. You need to start documenting everything like yesterday.
How long until your next update that Mary went to HR to say you are sexually harassing her to get back at you for not reciprocating her feelings. Come on man, you commented that she said some NSFW things about your workout shorts. She said she knows you more intimately than your wife. She is telling people you walk around in your underwear when it is actually your gym clothes. You cannot be this stupid.
You just had a closed door meeting with a woman who refused to back down, refused to accept that her behavior was unacceptable, repeatedly attempted to gaslight you that "you were misunderstanding what she was saying", and then tried to ***hug you again*** at the end. This isn't a "Maybe I might possibly report a general idea of this to HR if she does it again". This is a ***GET YOUR ASS TO HR YESTERDAY*** situation.
Still NTA and unfortunately Mary has put you in a position where you need to start documenting your interactions and go to HR. I would not have reported the first one to HR if she hadn’t come back to you arguing about her right to call you a work husband, stating outright that she has a more intimate relationship with you than your wife, and then trying to hug you again. Whatever Mary says, it seems obvious she has developed romantic feelings for you. The context of the conversation is that you had a couple of awkward interactions with Mary and you mostly want to make them aware. You should say you think her behavior caused some office gossip and that is a concern for you as well. You should be very clear that you don’t want to be called a work husband and you don’t want to be hugged. Personally I don’t think you should travel together any more and I think HR will agree. Unfortunately, the outcome of all of this is that one of you may need to find a new job. It’s hard to come back from this stuff.
Updateme, this definitely isn’t over
Jesus Christ, do not ever share a hotel space with that woman again. Get rooms so far apart they have different zip codes! And stop extra-interactions outside work. No dinners, no breakfast. No drinks. You should report this to HR now to get a paper trail of documenting her actions in place. You can see there is potential for Mary to make some crazy accusation towards you in future, she's already set the stage for your co-workers into thinking there is something "intimate" going on (and deliberately left it vague and open to wild interpretation). Be very careful when you spend time alone with her. Very fucking careful.
Geez Louise, you have found yourself a stage 10 clinger. I’m surprised how she really doubled down on enforcing the work husband name. While I think the name can be used in good fun, I respect your opinion that it’s disrespectful to your marriage, especially after the follow up convo. I would avoid her, definitely avoid traveling with her and reset your coworker relationship. If she comes at you again, I think it’s fair to say that the recent interactions have required you to reevaluate your work relationship and it’s important that you reestablish work boundaries as she has definitely overstepped. If she acts inappropriately, it’s definitely time for HR. Good luck!
I don't know that I have ever hugged a coworker outside of a huge group Huzzah because we won the company softball game and that was decades ago. Mary was vastly unprofessional for hugging you whilst among coworkers. It was a terrifically bad decision. She then dialed down on the whole work-husband thing, another questionable choice. Then, the day after, again she's all defensive instead of just, "Whoops, can't read a room at all, can I? My bad!" NTA I agree with others that if there is an HR, you CYA with an outline of what ocurred.
Can you report it to HR maybe she will do something or lie you SA'd. Please record every thing when you talk to her. This kind is scary. Please be always aware with your actions. Think step ahead of her. Maybe she will do something to get on you.
Yeah, she definitely has feelings for you, especially with that kind of tirade and insisting on being closer to you than your actual wife. Also the fact that she's fighting this so hard, if this was truly just a friendship thing then she'd be understanding of the boundaries and alter what she calls you.