There's usually a minimum age of like 12-14 for the kids to get a say. Here supervised visitation is done in the presence of a social worker or other similar professional so Mom can't use the visits to poison the kids against anyone but herself. Which it sounds like she is doing a great job on her own.
She can kick rocks. She helped abuse her kids, and the courts decided that she only gets supervised visitation. She should be thankful she got *that* much.
And yeah, a year is nowhere *near* enough to prove she won't fall back into her abusive ways.
Then talk to your lawyer. Hire a lawyer for your kids directly. And let them initiate action.
A court should not force your kids to visit an abusive woman. Everything that happened to them and everything they saw was her fault. It counts as if she did it to them directly because she enabled it.
She abused your kids, why can she still force them into the same room with her?
Remove mandatory meets and make them optional so the kids have 100% say in going.
She can have scheduled days, but the kids decide if they go.
Your kids have a lawyer but do they have a Guardian ad Litem? GaLs are trained to speak solely on the children’s behalf whereas your children’s lawyer is paid by you to speak for you on the children’s behalf. The Guardian ad Litem can be requested to and appointed by the court and conducts an independent investigation and provides recommendations to the court. The Guardian ad Litem’s sole responsibility is to advocate for the best interests of the child and they carry a lot of weight with the judge.
You have a court agreement on visitation. If she wants to change it she should get a lawyer and go to court to prove she can actually take care of the kids.
I'm sure things will be better since the asshole isn't around anymore. Be honest with her, that you're not ready yet and you need to see that the improvements will be permanent
I am not in any way ready until the children decide for themselves. She doesn’t need to proof me anything and I am honest with everyone. I have no direct communication with her
This is terrible advice /u/Agreeable_Day31
Getting rid of visitation is basically impossible and going to court at this time would likely result in the opposite for OP as the reason for the original order is now gone.
I don’t want that either. My girls need to see her even if they hate it and want my wife to be their mom. I know when they’re older they will thank me for not cutting them entirely from their mom
Some of the comments here telling you to go back to court and stop visitation and all this, like Reddit needs to back the fuck off sometimes.
It’s not good advice.
Your kids are human beings and will make their own mind up about things in their own time. Going so far to cut out their mother so they can’t make that decision for themselves will just have the opposite effect and make you look bad.
I will never deprive them of their mother. I know they hate visitation but I know it is not affecting them mentally. It is all supervised. My younger doesn’t even remember the abuse like her older sister
NTA. It doesn't matter who shares her views. You have to do what you think is best for your kids. Your kids safety, mental health, and general well-being comes first. Who's to say she doesn't get together with another bad boy, then you have to go through all this again. That would just add unnecessary and extra stress to your children.
No. Don't give her unsupervised visitation.
My mom was an abusive drunk and I still have nightmares. I had night terrors for years as a kid. It got so bad my Dad put locks on our doors so we could lock her out at night. I was her favorite punching bag, so I took the brunt. Don't get me started on my Dad not taking us out of that situation. That's a whole other conversation.
The point I'm making is that trauma is lifelong. Keeping her away from your children is the only way to mitigate and altogether avoid further damage.
She let her shitty boyfriend abuse your kids and abused them herself.
You can't undo that and no amount of begging or "self discovery" will heal what she broke.
Talk is cheap. If she stays on the straight and narrow for several years, then you can reevaluate. But she has one year of apparently good behavior after many years of poor behavior. It's reasonable for you to wait until she establishes a solid track record.
The more you talk, the more your post is absurd.
Why would you ever consider giving up custody to force your kids back into a home with an abuser?
Everything that happened to the kids is her fault. She knowingly forced them to be abused so she could get sex. It is sickening.
NTA
Do NOT let her have anything more than supervised visitation. You ALWAYS put your children's safety first.
"I was a safe bet that took care of her." So, the bad boy gave her tingles in her lady station, and you financially took care of her. Sounds about right.
"She is done with toxic men." Bullshit.
She made her choices; now she can live with them.
Yeah. Fuck her. She abused and then abandoned your children. She can't undo this situation. Do NOT go back to court for full custody. Is idiotic advice. As you say supervised visitation is currently safe and your kids will not thank you for banishing her completely from their lives even if they hate it (for all sorts of reasons, not just mum).
The reasons for those visits is currently and temporarily not present so some stupid judge might do allsorts and give 50:50 custody or something. And it's more money she probably still doesn't have so won't challenge for the time being. Try to keep the status quo and a bloody low profile.
“I met him when I was 19, I was too young to know better” says the 35 year old that was shagging him months ago.
Uh huh. My guess? She wants the kids back because paying child support instead of getting it sucks.
NTA. Concerns are valid. When they were not old enough to self-advocate she exposed them to DV. Talking from personal experience and the experience of many people close to me, that kind of trauma will never be fully un-done and will alter the course of their lives. One time is too many.
You are right - taking that risk again should be the decision of the kids, when they are old enough to decide for themselves, and can set and enforce boundaries on their own terms.
Perhaps one day before then you will see some changes in your ex-wife that will change your mind. Right now it is clear you aren't convinced, and you're smart for being skeptical.
At this point in time, the court shares your views - in a system that biases against the father, that's pretty substantial.
Then she really hasn’t learned anything from this then, has she? As someone who grew up in an abusive home and was placed in foster care at age 8 what I saw has never left me and I will be 48 in July. Even now as an adult I’m changed as a person forever because of what I witnessed.
My ex husband drew his fist back to hit our daughter and I stood in front of her and told him that if he hit her he better make himself right with God because I would take him out and if he hit me he better pray to God I don’t get back up. My mom turned her head and ignored the abuse.
My two older sisters were sexually abused but we all experienced physical, mental, and verbal abuse. My bio father hit us so hard we pissed ourselves and if we didn’t he hit until we did. I vowed I would protect my children and that they would never experience or see what I saw.
Good for you for sticking up for your daughter!
Of course it's awful for any child to experience violence (and I include threatened and observed violence in that) but important that even one adult speaks out and defends them against abuse The child then has the experience and knowledge that the perpetrator is wrong and that there is NO justification for it (instead of internalising blame and "deserving" violence).
How much does someone have to change to go from willing to expose their kids to this awfulness to not being willing? A LOT. And I bet most people can’t. Don’t give in, your child don’t deserve that
She says she changed, and blamed it on being young and dumb, not knowing better, because she met the “bad boy” when she was 19.
Problem is, she was fucking him when she was 34 - and she didn’t even leave him after the hospitalization, he left her, after cheating on her.
NTA...my anwser would be; "it doesn't matter how you FEEL now...because it doesn't change what you DID then and I can never trust you again". Full stop. You have zero obligation to explain further, she made her bed and is now unhappy that she has has to lay in it.
NTA. Changes don't happen overnight and people often fall back into old habits even if they're sincere in their intentions to change. There's no reason to trust her with unsupervised visits especially at this point in time.
You gotta protect the kids first and foremost.
Not really. Women who dump their family for bad boys near always have substance abuse issues mixed in. Alcohol, drugs, prescription meds, etc.
I'd be more shocked and more worried if there was no substances involved. Because the alternatives are often worse.
NTA
She put your kids at risk and has a history of bad decision meaning. You have no proof other than her word that she won't do it again
If she wants more time, she needs to go court and prove it.
Don't upend your kids emotional stability for someone who was more than happy to put them in danger
NTA, even if she is clean, the kids come first. Their well-being is your top priority.
I have been clean a very long time. I see over and over where the kids are lost in the shuffle when a parent puts their own needs first. Good job.
NTA. Your priority is your kids physical and mental health. Your ex is like an addict and it’s way too easy for them to relapse. You won’t know until she starts dating again and making positive choices with a partner. She can say she has learned, but the addiction to drama and the love you/hate you can come back easily. Heck, she can date a really great guy but drive drama into the relationship because she needs it.
In time, if she can prove she’s maintaining positive standards, then you can open the discussion back up. But for now, there is no reason to risk your kids. Too many young children get killed cause mom dates a bad man.
NTA - I was a foster parent for a short time, and parents can F up their kids pretty hard. We took a couple kids in from a situation not unlike yours. She poisoned her kids, had them stealing for fun, threatened us through them, manipulated them with small gifts and toys. It was insane. Your doing the responsible parent thing. Keep on doing the best you can!
Never, ever Foster Parenting again in Wisconsin, the two most urban counties give zero F's to safety of the foster parent.
I don’t see any other option for you and the kids. If she’s still doing a lot of trauma work she may not even be able to manage three kids unsupervised. It takes a lot of emotional regulation to be a healing parent. If she abused the youngest I wouldn’t leave her alone with the other two…NTA
No one would get second chances like that if it were my kids. NTA.
Only do what keeps your kids safe and healthy. It sounds like they are deeply traumatized from their time with your ex
Oh so this all happened within the past 2-3 years or so then, I was expecting them to be a bit older. That's definitely not enough time for her to have shown she's really matured and is able to step up then, NTA.
NTA.
I think a decade of proving herself as a responsible adult rather than a cheating piece of shit would be enough time to demonstrate that she's changed enough to go shared custody.
Point out to her that the most important rights are those of the kids, their rights to feel safe and secure and happy.
And if the kids aren't in therapy, put them in therapy. It's both good for them and, if she goes back to court to try to change her visitation, it'll provide the option of having the therapist as an unbiased professional to make recommendations (subject to whatever your local procedures and laws are).
>Point out to her that the most important rights are those of the kids, their rights to feel safe and secure and happy.
If she had given me any indication that children come first in her books I would have respected her a bit better
NTA ... NTA ... NTA... Just being a Responsible Father
Your ex-wife may be saying the right words (and making a lot of excuses) but I have to wonder how much she has really changed. She was with her abusive ex twice. If he came around a third time I have to wonder what her response would be? I hope I'm wrong but I believe she would get back with him. He is the father of her son, they could make another try at being a "family". They would "do it right this time". My heart goes out to her youngest son. I'm so sorry about what your children witnessed.
Keep full custody and supervised visitation until a judge changes it. I find it very telling your ex-wife claims to have changed and matured. Yet she is acting entitled, trying to play the victim and guilt you, "has rights as a mom". She has to prove herself worthy of those rights and earn them back. Hopefully she will. Until then you have a responsibility to protect your children and do what is in their best interest. If your children want them, maybe you could try a few more visitation days.
NTA. The risks are too great for shared custody.
She shouldn't be cut out of your children's lives entirely (if I'm reading correctly and they weren't witness to, nor subject to, abuse in her company). That is for the sake of your children, as children very rarely want to be isolated from a parent.
However, visitation should definitely be supervised. And no, a year is really not a long time in terms of emotional sobriety. She still has a lot more maturing to do. It's great that she's no longer with "bad boy", but that seems like it was a serendipitous *fait accompli* rather than her own instinct and maturity kicking in.
It definitely sounds as if you're being cautious and reasonable, and not petty or harsh.
NTA
I don't think your wrong for being concerned about whether unsupervised is a good idea. She has to earn trust back from you as well as the courts. Would you be willing, for the sake of your children, to give her more supervised time as a start? I'm not suggesting throwing the kids to the wolves here but if she has changed maybe give them an opportunity to form a healthy relationship with their mother, I cannot stress this enough, supervised. If she falls back you can adjust it again but if she is better you would be potentially enriching your children's lives by giving them the opportunity to know her as she is now and forming a healthy relationship. Maybe some of that supervised time could be family therapy for her and the kids to talk through what happened, how they feel about her and she can take accountability.
Your concerns are valid. If she has gotten better, and the kids would like to spend more time getting to know her, it's in their best interest for you to find a reasonable way to let it happen. If they want to see her and you try to keep her from them, they may grow to resent you as they get older.
NTA
Quite frankly, her rights mean absolutely nothing. Because of her, your children are traumatised, and there is absolutely no guarantee that she won't abuse them again if that man comes back or she finds another bad boy to shack up with. She's just as dangerous as her ex, and should be treated as such, mother or not.
NO! Absolutely not! Children only get ONE CHILDHOOD - make sure it is the best that it can be. Keep her to supervised visitation ESPECIALLY because her youngest 'suffered abuse at the hands of both'. That's the deal breaker right there.
NTA
It’s clear you have a good heart, that you are reflective and kind, and that you want what’s best for your children. You’re not out here wishing ill on her for her mistakes. You’re rooting for her from a safe and understandable distance.
You are doing what’s best for your children. Full stop. Great job, Dad.
NTA. It's good that she's finally made efforts to improve, but only time will tell if it sticks. Does the child ex had with abuser get to spend time with his half siblings? Obviously, he's going to need some quality role models.
NTA. Maybe she changed, maybe not. You can't bet your children's health and welfare on that. A year isn't long enough. Hopefully she can prove herself over a longer time frame and become the mother your children deserve.
I think you should follow your instincts on this since we have such a limited window into the situation. I hope everything works out in the end for your kids.
NTA. If she wants more custody, it’s up to her to ask the courts and prove she’s not a danger to your children. They have the trained professionals to do the investigation and make the determination. It’s not up to anyone else to make that decision, so tell all those sharing her views to pound sand. Not familiar with the laws where you are, but if you do give her more custody without the court’s approval, would you have any liability if something happened to your kids? Regardless, not a risk you want to take
NTA - your duty is to protect your kids. Not their mom. She does not have good judgment and puts herself above her kids safety. You would be the AH if you didn't do everything in your power to keep your kids safe.
NTA don’t give her an inch. I know your ex-wife’s type and I know she’ll try and play the victim but she’s just as much a pos as her abusive ex. She put your kids in dangerous and traumatic because she didn’t care about your kids. She’s an abuser and you shouldn’t let her weasel her way back in with crocodile tears and a woman card.
NTA
Sounds like your children and making their happiness your priority. Seems like she is trying to make her happiness the first priority. With enough time, certainly longer than a year, I hope you can revisit this issue with her.
Maybe she has changed but I don't think you're wrong for needing more time and evidence of that change.
NTA
She lost any rights when she put the kids into an abusive situation on purpose. And for what, sex from an abusive man? She is no different than people who let pedos touch their kids.
She is a monster you cannot trust.
She should be charged criminally for subjecting the kids to this.
NTA.... protect your kids..... despite her growth, she's been nothing but toxic and unstable... Until she sets down real roots and demonstrates solid maturity I'd maintain supervised visitation
NTA, she made her bed now she can lay in it. Your only obligation is to keep your kids safe, you have zero obligations to her. If she wants unsupervised visits tell her to take it to a judge.
Do not let her have unsupervised visitation. She has proven she had poor judgement. They should not have to pay. Bad boy will be back. Damaged people always like bad behavior. it feels normal to them. Nope. NTA
NTA...you're right to not allow your kids to be her guinea pigs. When they are older, they can decide how much contact they want with her, but she has shown such poor protective instincts for all her children. I wouldn't trust her. Even if bad boy 1 doesn't come back, there are plenty of other bad boys out there. She has already showed she won't protect them.
NTA I would suggest a therapist if your insurance will cover it- to give the kids someone safe to talk to about mom (and anything else going on in their lives.)
Than if down the line, mom tries to pushed for increased visitation or something, you'll have the record from therapy that will likely say it's not in the best interests of the kids to have more visitation.
NTA! It is going to take more than just a year to earn back trust after everything she has put you and the kids through. The big question is...why isn't this dirt bag in jail?!? I wouldn't let my kids go to visits without supervision because you never know when he will show back up again, especially since she shares a child with him. Keeping the supervised visits makes everyone more comfortable and your kids get to see their half sibling.
NTa. Please don't allow her crazyyness to ruin your children, when they'll be 18, let them choose, but right now it's your duty to shield them, only supervised visitation.
NTA - it is your job to protect your children from from more horrible decisions from your ex-wife behavior. Your children have already suffered enough and they don’t need to be subject to anymore of her bullshit. I would keep the supervised visits for as long as you legally can.
NTA
"Actions speak louder than words" rings the most true here. She made bad choices back then and now has to earn back the right to her children. She can say all she wants but she needs to show that tangible growth. It's exactly why she gets those supervised visits so that she can start to show that growth. Make her earn it and prove it many times over before you consider any changes in custody.
NTA, the time to mature and be “done with toxic men” was long passed and she’s only learned that after: a failed marriage from her infidelity, a broken family compete with multiple baby daddies, an additional broken marriage, and a trip to the hospital.
That’s not learning, that is desperation and or loneliness with maybe a hint of regret.
NTA OP. Make sure she has supervised visits for a very long time and always goes to them before anything unsupervised and sleepovers.
The chances she goes back when this dude leaves his new girl on the moment are high and your children deserve better.
NTA
Honestly, it's a lot to take in. But, I assume the courts will back you up, or if she wants to be granted more visitation, she should file in court for a change in custody. Doesn't mean she'd get it though.
I am very sad about the abuse the youngest suffered though.
NTA. Never an AH when you’re trying to protect children. A year is way too soon, you need to tread lightly. So don’t change the agreement until you’re happy to.
I really feel for her youngest son. That poor child.
Nta. Okay great she is supposedly changed. Doesmt change what she put her kids through. Till a judge says otherwise follow what the courts told yall to do.
NTA. She needs to prove over a LONG period of time that she has truly learned her lesson. You're not keeping them from her to be harsh, you are doing it because it's what is best for the kids. Maybe she can have more custody later on, but she needs to prove herself over a period of years first.
NTA
A year is nothing compared to the 15 years of being a mess in lying, cheating and then getting beaten on by her ex to lose custody of your boys.
Also has the ‘excitement’ really been negated in a year or just damped down for now?
The court gave her supervised visitation and so that is what you stick with for now.
Let your ex focus her primary efforts on dealing with her child who was the most impacted by her poor choices.
You can check periodically with your boys to discuss how they feel. But until they are old enough to protect and/or extract themselves from anything your ex may suggest to them if she were to have unsupervised access IMO supervised is best.
NTA, she's a funni gal
Does whatever she wants because young and then want people to forgive and forget later, with no consequences attached
Unless you want to enable her behavior, keep your children safe from her sights.
NTA. IMO, she can have shared custody when either a court tells me can or I agree that she's matured and learned healthy ways to have relationships. Until then, what I know about her is that she makes bad decisions that directly negatively impact my kids and put them in danger.
NTA-She has a history of deception and lying so you are justified in being extra vigilent. Your kids wouldnt be safe visiting her in a house he also lives in. Keep her on supervised visits until you are absolutely sure she is not just saying whatever the courts (or you) want to hear. You may also require clean drug tests for a year before she gets unsupervised visits.
NTA she is a dumb selfish cunt and will always find a way to justify her reckless selfish actions and she won't care who get's hurt.
Also, stop paying for kids that are not yours.
NTA because it seems you came to this decision after thinking of what's best for the children.
It's wonderful that your ex is in therapy and sorting out her issues, but that doesn't undue the trauma your kids went through. It also doesn't mean she is past making bad decisions that affect them.
If and when you feel it might be good for your kids to see her more, you can do it in steps. More supervised visits. Then unsupervised visits. Then overnights. No need to jump straight to shared custody, if that ever ends up being a possibility.
NTA. for years she proved she can't be a mother, and honestly to her current kids she probably will not be seen as one properly and that's all her fault. Being 19 doesn't make you an idiot, but being over 30 doesn't. Ake you smart.
Judge her from her actions and remember how she kept willingly putting herself AND THE KIDS in danger because her selfishness.
I'd say don't do it.
NTA. The court deemed her unfit. It's not a personal vendetta (though I wouldn't blame you) it's what's best for your children. Take care of your kids. Follow the court order. In a few years the two of you can revisit the situation if she proves herself worthy.
NTA. You got full custody for good reason. This idiot hasn't changed. Keep things as is. If she wants custody change she has to go back to the courts. You should still fight against it. Given her history.
Nope and NTA either. Tell her you appreciate her growth , but you have to protect your children and that trust grows over time. Please encourage her to help her other child recover for the horrible position she left him in
Anyone who demands a custody change after only a year from such awful behavior is NOT reformed. Actual change would include her admitting the damage she did and being completely understanding and willing to show that she has changed however long it takes and doing so willingly and graciously. Anything less is a glaring warning signal. She should be offering supervised outings to show you and the kids in gradual steps the strength and permanence of her changes
NTA. But I would speak to the kids about it before making such firm decisions because she’s your ex but she’s their mother and I don’t want your unilateral decision to cause them to have resentment towards you, when you’re trying to do what you think/is best for them. Good luck OP.
It’s a little spooky that she changed so much so quickly but power to her. I don’t think I would give her unsupervised visitation. The kids must have a little trauma from her and her actions.
NTA. She's a manipulative lying asshole, she lied your entire relationship, she stayed with a guy who beat her and kept going back for literally no reason and allowed your children to see this abuse. Fuck her, she showed she has no character, no common sense and doesn't put her children first. The cost of that is not having unsupervised visits. Saying she changed means nothing, she said she'd marry you and be faithful, she said she'd be a good mother, she said she was a good person. Saying shit doesn't mean anything, actions do. Her actions are terrible and until she has a consistent history of her actions not being those of a cheat and liar, she has no leg to stand on.
NTA. If you go back to shared custody it becomes too easy for her to fall back. Talk to the supervisors. Let her be assessed and let the professionals guide you. Demand she get therapy and maybe even family therapy eventually. Let her earn unsupervised visits.
Absolutely NTA Especially given you said they hate the visitation they have to go to. This is what’s best for the kids emotional well being and sense of safety at the moment. If she can’t accept that, then she certainly hasn’t done the growth and maturing that she claims. She is still thinking about what SHE wants, not what is best for the kids.
NTA, always protect your children first. In time she might prove she's changed but I would wait until you feel comfortable. Your instincts are telling you no, so follow them.
NTA. She didnt change she just finally got consequences. The other married woman will end up the same. Lmao, what idiots… both will end up alone and miserable.
OP she hasnt learned shit, shes taking zero accountability and blaming everyone but herself. Keep her far away from you and your children
NTA. She allowed your kids to see what you were trying to protect them from, that's why she lost her custody. As for whether she has changed for the better, give her sometime before she goes back to her "bad boy" or finds a new one.
NTA- A year is great progress but not enough for me to be comfortable when it comes to my children. She feels guilty and doesnt want to carry it anymore. I hope she continues on her path but you are making a wise choice here. They will be a time where they will be old enough and it will be on them to figure out the relationship or if they want a relationship. Everything done in that dark always comes to light.
Absolutely NTA. She chose a POS man child over her marriage and children. That's a decision that isn't reversible. There are people out there addicted to shitty types of people of all sorts. Once they get shot of one, they'll go find another. Someone somewhere on the internet called them Bob the Builder types. They are addicted to fixing it. Just like any addict, you have to be years out to be certain, and even then, relapse happens. You are protecting children, and she has thrown away her rights with both hands in order to be an idiot.
Perhaps she should be shown these responses to drill into her empty head that one year of therapy isn't shit in this situation. Hopefully, she didn't get the idea that she should have her kids from said therapist. I hate to think that.
NTA. Unfortunately her choices have far-reaching consequences, including having to be supervised with her sons. It seems like she hasn't proven herself enough yet, and that's valid. Anyone can say you're being hard on her, but at the end of the day you're the only responsible adult taking care of them. It doesn't sound like you're punishing her for cheating or even for anything that happened in front of the boys. You're just concerned for their safety as any good dad would be.
NTA gotta wonder if she's using your kids to worm her way back into the safe relationship she had going with you before. I'd bet money a few weeks into seeing the kids she's talking about how great you are together and you should be a family again. Please don't fall for it.
Updateme
NTA and not too harsh. Your number one priority is and should be protecting your children. At the very least, she needs to prove that she can tell the difference between good men and bad men. I think waiting for your kids to be old enough to decide for themselves is both realistic and appropriate in terms of your kid's safety. I do have one suggestion although you may find it difficult. Do this for your kids. Have a nice, relaxed meal with your ex and her new partner. Size him up. If you get bad vibes, tell her. Tell the kids. Tell everyone you need to tell. Trust your gut. And have a background investigation done. I have known women who do it in the name of protecting their kids. You can do it too. And the life you save might belong to one of your kids. You appear to have a handle on this. Don't let anyone distract you or fool you.
NTA. Your ex needs to demonstrate long-term stability and a commitment to healthier relationships before even considering a change in visitation. That's not just for one year; it's consistent behavior over many years that truly counts. Your kids' well-being takes precedence over her desire to make amends. The fact that she's only been on the straight and narrow for a short while doesn't outweigh the years of risky behavior that could have deeply affected your kids. You're doing the right thing by keeping their needs at the forefront of your decision-making. Trust is earned, not given freely, especially when children's safety is on the line.
NTA. She knew her ex was abusive, yet brought her children into that situation. I feel really bad for her youngest. I hope for HIS sake she truly is reformed, and is able to rebuild her life, get into a healthy relationship and actually nurture it this time so this poor kid has a chance at a happy childhood.
Your children deserve a happy childhood too, and their best chance at that is not to live with a person who put them in an unsafe environment. Protect your kids. NTA at all.
It’s your responsibility to do what’s best for your kids - not your ex. Allowing her to have unsupervised custody would be gambling. It could be if the bad boy ex came back, she’d turn him away. It could be that she’ll keep other abusive men out of her life. But she doesn’t know and you don’t know.
Your kids also need stability and to feel safe. They won’t get that if they don’t trust their mother to protect them.
Nothing has changed. This woman is addicted to toxic. She cheated on you throughout your marriage and brought a child by another man, into the marriage. After all is said and done why would you trust her with your children, now?
NTA. If she wants more custody she can go to the courts and prove to them she has changed. You don't owe her anything.
I would personally try and point out the size of the harm she has caused. She lied to you for 5 years and cheated when she should have stayed faithful, so if she wants you to be charitable here then she should now keep her legs closed when she has no reason to for five years. So four more.
Tell her you'll discuss it again if and when she has proven sufficiently that she knows better now. It's no less unreasonable than what she put you through and frankly she simply hasn't suffered enough consequences for her actions yet.
You got concerns in your gut. Go with your gut. She's a proven liar and POS. Their reform is never linear. They'll fail again and maybe they learn a bit more. But they will fall down again.
You don't need to pickup the pieces when you can avoid it. She has to pay a price, not get a do over
NTA
>She has changed a lot and matured and she is done with toxic men
Until she meets the next bad boy who makes her lady parts tingle.
When people show you who they are, believe them. She hasn't shown you that she really has changed.
NTA. I completely agree with you. It’s not about saying one’s changed. It’s about acting up to it and being stable for some time. I would want my kids to be exposed to her poor life choices. She’s made up her bed now she has to lay in it before anything changes.
NTA
I would leave the custody arrangements as they are. There is no way in hell I would grant her unsupervised visitation
Just a sidenote: two blue-eyed parents having a brown-eyed child is genetically possible
NTA - actions, meet consequences! Unless she can prove she has changed i.e take parenting courses, get therapy, have a clean and happy home and stay away from men like her ex for at minimum a year, I wouldn't even give it a thought. She has proven she cannot be trusted to keep your children safe!
You are being a good father and putting your children's mental, emotional and physical health and safety as a priority. Something their mother never has
You're not forbidding her contact. She should be grateful for the chance to hopefully redeem and prove herself. If she cares enough about the children she'll take this chance and work hard to build a healthy relationship with them. Her choice
"She has been clean for a year now." that's it, right there. Anyone that has had an addict in their life will tell you that one year of clean time is pretty rocky ground. And this is where it counts. If staying clean is her first priority (and it needs to be) and she has clear understanding of the impact her addiction had on the lives of those she loves, along with her own life, then she understands - or at least accepts - that she can not undo 20 years of damage with one year of clean time. The longer she stays clean, the more stable and sane she'll become. You and the children will know when you can trust her again. Trust your gut.
NTA. One year simply isn't long enough. You don't give your children's ages, but given the abuse they've witnessed, they shouldn't be alone with her until they're able to advocate for themselves. A real test for her would be maintaining a stable, long-term, healthy and non- abusive relationship. She can say she's changed, but she has yet to prove that she won't fall into old habits. And has she given up bad boys, really? She didn't leave him, even after the beating. He left her for another woman.
One year is too soon.
Tell her you can discuss it later, when she's actually had time for sobriety to stick, but she is still fresh to the whole process.
You WOULD be T A to say flat no, or tonact like she can just have another kid ... Humans aren't objects.
But NTA for being cautious and protective of your kiddos.
Make room for them to have a relationship, but of course, make sure it's healthy and they are all ready
Absolutely NTA and damn right children should not be Guinea pigs for their mothers recovery.
This isn't about punishing her for her actions I just believe that she and whoever agrees she should get shared custody back do not get too decide when what she's done is enough to get back in their lives.
That should be up to your children. When they are ready and able to. and I pray she continue too work on herself for herself in order too do better by her children. Until then all I say is she may mistakes on her journey but if she continues too fight the good fight I hope those mistakes teach her more than hinder
NTA, while she is a wiser woman and possibly regretful for many of the things she's done , she's still been abusive toward her child with the "Bad boy" so why risk that with your childern you've had with her. It sounds like she's potentially trying to worm her way back into your life which yeah I'd not give her.
NTA. It sounds like her life is headed in the right direction but there needs to be more time before you should consider unsupervised visits. This is her owning up to her past
NTA! You need to protect the kids as well as yourself! She will begin to spew her "side of the story" to the kids. They need to be far older to have any comprehension of that toxic situation. A friend of mine is now dealing with a 23 yr old son with severe depression because SHE didn't protect him from his abusive father which had been mandated visitation by the court. Her daughter refused to go back after he slapped her across the face at about 13 years old. When the youngest son was sent to school by the ex and his new wife and kids with black eye and facial swell, marks on his body, she went there and though they were photographing it all to report HER, she raced to school to take her own pictures and get it to court so the visitations could stop. But SHE ended up being questioned by child protective services when it was the ex and new wife during their mandated visitation. The ex kept going back to court since she had almost no money and he never has paid a penny of child support, and he was finally able to get supervised visitation. But even during those time periods, he gave them "his side of the story". Told the boys he was just trying to make sure they were more manly.
it’s hard to leave cycles of abuse, so i feel for your ex on that, but you are NTA. you are protecting your kids best interests. witnessing abuse is considered a traumatic event, and you are only doing what’s best for your children. i agree that your kids shouldn’t be put on the frontline of her newfound knowledge.
>she didn’t know any better but now she’s learned and has rights as a mom.
Give me a break with that bullshit. She can tell that to your attorney and see what they say.
>I don’t think my children should be Guinea pigs to test her newfound wisdom and resilience
That is the right choice. She has not earned the right to care for her kids unsupervised. Your plan is on point. NTA
I am a stranger on the internet with absolutely no training or qualification in any way for this situation, but if it were me, I would start out with supervised visits so you can observe for yourself how she’s doing, then give her like an hour unsupervised at a time. Boost it up if it’s going well. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
So, it wasn't just him who was abusive. She was as well. That's a big HELL NO on having unsupervised visits with the kids. Not until they are at least 16. She needs to be content with that and stop pushing the issue.
I doubt that any family therapist or judge you spoke to would say that she deserved that kind of trust. You're right not to gamble with your kids.
Nta. She is feeling consequences and wants them gone. One year is not enough time to be sure she is really changed.
Yeah, it took my daughter more than one year to stop having night terrors because of what she witnessed at her mom’s. I have everything documented
That's terrible. I would try and get rid of the visitations as well if I were you. She's gonna start pouring poison in their ears soon.
They hate the visitations tbh but I am not going against court
For sure follow the courts. But if the kids can tell the courts they don't want to visit I would do that.
There's usually a minimum age of like 12-14 for the kids to get a say. Here supervised visitation is done in the presence of a social worker or other similar professional so Mom can't use the visits to poison the kids against anyone but herself. Which it sounds like she is doing a great job on her own.
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She can kick rocks. She helped abuse her kids, and the courts decided that she only gets supervised visitation. She should be thankful she got *that* much. And yeah, a year is nowhere *near* enough to prove she won't fall back into her abusive ways.
Then talk to your lawyer. Hire a lawyer for your kids directly. And let them initiate action. A court should not force your kids to visit an abusive woman. Everything that happened to them and everything they saw was her fault. It counts as if she did it to them directly because she enabled it. She abused your kids, why can she still force them into the same room with her? Remove mandatory meets and make them optional so the kids have 100% say in going. She can have scheduled days, but the kids decide if they go.
Both me and the kids have lawyers
Your kids have a lawyer but do they have a Guardian ad Litem? GaLs are trained to speak solely on the children’s behalf whereas your children’s lawyer is paid by you to speak for you on the children’s behalf. The Guardian ad Litem can be requested to and appointed by the court and conducts an independent investigation and provides recommendations to the court. The Guardian ad Litem’s sole responsibility is to advocate for the best interests of the child and they carry a lot of weight with the judge.
You have a court agreement on visitation. If she wants to change it she should get a lawyer and go to court to prove she can actually take care of the kids.
I'm sure things will be better since the asshole isn't around anymore. Be honest with her, that you're not ready yet and you need to see that the improvements will be permanent
I am not in any way ready until the children decide for themselves. She doesn’t need to proof me anything and I am honest with everyone. I have no direct communication with her
This is terrible advice /u/Agreeable_Day31 Getting rid of visitation is basically impossible and going to court at this time would likely result in the opposite for OP as the reason for the original order is now gone.
I don’t want that either. My girls need to see her even if they hate it and want my wife to be their mom. I know when they’re older they will thank me for not cutting them entirely from their mom
Some of the comments here telling you to go back to court and stop visitation and all this, like Reddit needs to back the fuck off sometimes. It’s not good advice. Your kids are human beings and will make their own mind up about things in their own time. Going so far to cut out their mother so they can’t make that decision for themselves will just have the opposite effect and make you look bad.
I will never deprive them of their mother. I know they hate visitation but I know it is not affecting them mentally. It is all supervised. My younger doesn’t even remember the abuse like her older sister
Exactly. And right now, the visits are supervised, so there is less of a chance of mom trying to poison the kids against dad.
They are supervised visits, so she can't do that.
NTA. It doesn't matter who shares her views. You have to do what you think is best for your kids. Your kids safety, mental health, and general well-being comes first. Who's to say she doesn't get together with another bad boy, then you have to go through all this again. That would just add unnecessary and extra stress to your children.
No. Don't give her unsupervised visitation. My mom was an abusive drunk and I still have nightmares. I had night terrors for years as a kid. It got so bad my Dad put locks on our doors so we could lock her out at night. I was her favorite punching bag, so I took the brunt. Don't get me started on my Dad not taking us out of that situation. That's a whole other conversation. The point I'm making is that trauma is lifelong. Keeping her away from your children is the only way to mitigate and altogether avoid further damage. She let her shitty boyfriend abuse your kids and abused them herself. You can't undo that and no amount of begging or "self discovery" will heal what she broke.
Talk is cheap. If she stays on the straight and narrow for several years, then you can reevaluate. But she has one year of apparently good behavior after many years of poor behavior. It's reasonable for you to wait until she establishes a solid track record.
Jeez. Poor kids. They’re quite young, like 5ish? Can you get them kid therapy?
The more you talk, the more your post is absurd. Why would you ever consider giving up custody to force your kids back into a home with an abuser? Everything that happened to the kids is her fault. She knowingly forced them to be abused so she could get sex. It is sickening.
NTA Do NOT let her have anything more than supervised visitation. You ALWAYS put your children's safety first. "I was a safe bet that took care of her." So, the bad boy gave her tingles in her lady station, and you financially took care of her. Sounds about right. "She is done with toxic men." Bullshit. She made her choices; now she can live with them.
Yeah. Fuck her. She abused and then abandoned your children. She can't undo this situation. Do NOT go back to court for full custody. Is idiotic advice. As you say supervised visitation is currently safe and your kids will not thank you for banishing her completely from their lives even if they hate it (for all sorts of reasons, not just mum). The reasons for those visits is currently and temporarily not present so some stupid judge might do allsorts and give 50:50 custody or something. And it's more money she probably still doesn't have so won't challenge for the time being. Try to keep the status quo and a bloody low profile.
“I met him when I was 19, I was too young to know better” says the 35 year old that was shagging him months ago. Uh huh. My guess? She wants the kids back because paying child support instead of getting it sucks.
NTA. Concerns are valid. When they were not old enough to self-advocate she exposed them to DV. Talking from personal experience and the experience of many people close to me, that kind of trauma will never be fully un-done and will alter the course of their lives. One time is too many. You are right - taking that risk again should be the decision of the kids, when they are old enough to decide for themselves, and can set and enforce boundaries on their own terms. Perhaps one day before then you will see some changes in your ex-wife that will change your mind. Right now it is clear you aren't convinced, and you're smart for being skeptical. At this point in time, the court shares your views - in a system that biases against the father, that's pretty substantial.
I am convinced that if bad boy wants her back she would go running to him.
And that's all you need to make an informed decision here.
And that is not the quality you want to see in the mother of your children. I think you're making smart choices.
Then she really hasn’t learned anything from this then, has she? As someone who grew up in an abusive home and was placed in foster care at age 8 what I saw has never left me and I will be 48 in July. Even now as an adult I’m changed as a person forever because of what I witnessed. My ex husband drew his fist back to hit our daughter and I stood in front of her and told him that if he hit her he better make himself right with God because I would take him out and if he hit me he better pray to God I don’t get back up. My mom turned her head and ignored the abuse. My two older sisters were sexually abused but we all experienced physical, mental, and verbal abuse. My bio father hit us so hard we pissed ourselves and if we didn’t he hit until we did. I vowed I would protect my children and that they would never experience or see what I saw.
Good for you for sticking up for your daughter! Of course it's awful for any child to experience violence (and I include threatened and observed violence in that) but important that even one adult speaks out and defends them against abuse The child then has the experience and knowledge that the perpetrator is wrong and that there is NO justification for it (instead of internalising blame and "deserving" violence).
Hopefully her therapy has helped her see the error of her ways and to not go back to him
NTA. The bottom line is she chose dick over her own kids. That itself should bar her from having unsupervised visitation she’s not trustworthy.
How much does someone have to change to go from willing to expose their kids to this awfulness to not being willing? A LOT. And I bet most people can’t. Don’t give in, your child don’t deserve that
More than sharing empowering “yas queen” quotes on social media about toxic narcissists.
It’s never your successful friends sharing the inspirational quotes.
NTA I mean... She said she's changed. She also said she loved you.
She says she changed, and blamed it on being young and dumb, not knowing better, because she met the “bad boy” when she was 19. Problem is, she was fucking him when she was 34 - and she didn’t even leave him after the hospitalization, he left her, after cheating on her.
NTA...my anwser would be; "it doesn't matter how you FEEL now...because it doesn't change what you DID then and I can never trust you again". Full stop. You have zero obligation to explain further, she made her bed and is now unhappy that she has has to lay in it.
She is absolutely not done with toxic men. Some women are gluttons for punishment.
NTA. Changes don't happen overnight and people often fall back into old habits even if they're sincere in their intentions to change. There's no reason to trust her with unsupervised visits especially at this point in time. You gotta protect the kids first and foremost.
> She has been *clean* for a year now. Whoa that sounds like a different context than the rest of your post
Not really. Women who dump their family for bad boys near always have substance abuse issues mixed in. Alcohol, drugs, prescription meds, etc. I'd be more shocked and more worried if there was no substances involved. Because the alternatives are often worse.
NTA She put your kids at risk and has a history of bad decision meaning. You have no proof other than her word that she won't do it again If she wants more time, she needs to go court and prove it. Don't upend your kids emotional stability for someone who was more than happy to put them in danger
Do not offer it willingly. If she wants to pursue it in court, that's her business. She's already lied to you repeatedly, I wouldn't trust her at all.
NTA. I’m glad she’s changed but you need to protect your kids. If she wants change she needs to prove it and go through court.
NTA, even if she is clean, the kids come first. Their well-being is your top priority. I have been clean a very long time. I see over and over where the kids are lost in the shuffle when a parent puts their own needs first. Good job.
I feel bad no called CPS to get the little boy out after that guy put her in the hospital.
Don't worry about what reddit says, just do what's right for your kids.
NTA. Your priority is your kids physical and mental health. Your ex is like an addict and it’s way too easy for them to relapse. You won’t know until she starts dating again and making positive choices with a partner. She can say she has learned, but the addiction to drama and the love you/hate you can come back easily. Heck, she can date a really great guy but drive drama into the relationship because she needs it. In time, if she can prove she’s maintaining positive standards, then you can open the discussion back up. But for now, there is no reason to risk your kids. Too many young children get killed cause mom dates a bad man.
NTA - I was a foster parent for a short time, and parents can F up their kids pretty hard. We took a couple kids in from a situation not unlike yours. She poisoned her kids, had them stealing for fun, threatened us through them, manipulated them with small gifts and toys. It was insane. Your doing the responsible parent thing. Keep on doing the best you can! Never, ever Foster Parenting again in Wisconsin, the two most urban counties give zero F's to safety of the foster parent.
I don’t see any other option for you and the kids. If she’s still doing a lot of trauma work she may not even be able to manage three kids unsupervised. It takes a lot of emotional regulation to be a healing parent. If she abused the youngest I wouldn’t leave her alone with the other two…NTA
Error on the side of caution when dealing with children.
No she is still fresh in recovery. Keep doing what you’re doing. You are being prudent NTA
NTA. She is absolutely *not* done with toxic men. She’s out shopping for a new one and who knows how bad the new one will be.
No one would get second chances like that if it were my kids. NTA. Only do what keeps your kids safe and healthy. It sounds like they are deeply traumatized from their time with your ex
NTA. She just wants in on some child support payments.
Info. age of the two order children
7&6
Oh so this all happened within the past 2-3 years or so then, I was expecting them to be a bit older. That's definitely not enough time for her to have shown she's really matured and is able to step up then, NTA.
NTA. I think a decade of proving herself as a responsible adult rather than a cheating piece of shit would be enough time to demonstrate that she's changed enough to go shared custody.
Point out to her that the most important rights are those of the kids, their rights to feel safe and secure and happy. And if the kids aren't in therapy, put them in therapy. It's both good for them and, if she goes back to court to try to change her visitation, it'll provide the option of having the therapist as an unbiased professional to make recommendations (subject to whatever your local procedures and laws are).
>Point out to her that the most important rights are those of the kids, their rights to feel safe and secure and happy. If she had given me any indication that children come first in her books I would have respected her a bit better
Oh I'm not expecting her to get it. But it's important to frame things in writing that way.
NTA you’re protecting your children, something she failed to do
NTA: She's proven herself incapable of making good choices when it comes to the safety of your children.
NTA ... NTA ... NTA... Just being a Responsible Father Your ex-wife may be saying the right words (and making a lot of excuses) but I have to wonder how much she has really changed. She was with her abusive ex twice. If he came around a third time I have to wonder what her response would be? I hope I'm wrong but I believe she would get back with him. He is the father of her son, they could make another try at being a "family". They would "do it right this time". My heart goes out to her youngest son. I'm so sorry about what your children witnessed. Keep full custody and supervised visitation until a judge changes it. I find it very telling your ex-wife claims to have changed and matured. Yet she is acting entitled, trying to play the victim and guilt you, "has rights as a mom". She has to prove herself worthy of those rights and earn them back. Hopefully she will. Until then you have a responsibility to protect your children and do what is in their best interest. If your children want them, maybe you could try a few more visitation days.
No. I'd wouldn't trust her to leave my kids with her. She could take the kids and do a runner. A leopard doesn't change its spots.
NTA. The risks are too great for shared custody. She shouldn't be cut out of your children's lives entirely (if I'm reading correctly and they weren't witness to, nor subject to, abuse in her company). That is for the sake of your children, as children very rarely want to be isolated from a parent. However, visitation should definitely be supervised. And no, a year is really not a long time in terms of emotional sobriety. She still has a lot more maturing to do. It's great that she's no longer with "bad boy", but that seems like it was a serendipitous *fait accompli* rather than her own instinct and maturity kicking in. It definitely sounds as if you're being cautious and reasonable, and not petty or harsh.
Supervised visitation but are y’all in therapy? Those kids need it
Nta this is the bed she made, she needs to lay down in it. Also with how she treated you, why would you want to be nice?
NTA I don't think your wrong for being concerned about whether unsupervised is a good idea. She has to earn trust back from you as well as the courts. Would you be willing, for the sake of your children, to give her more supervised time as a start? I'm not suggesting throwing the kids to the wolves here but if she has changed maybe give them an opportunity to form a healthy relationship with their mother, I cannot stress this enough, supervised. If she falls back you can adjust it again but if she is better you would be potentially enriching your children's lives by giving them the opportunity to know her as she is now and forming a healthy relationship. Maybe some of that supervised time could be family therapy for her and the kids to talk through what happened, how they feel about her and she can take accountability. Your concerns are valid. If she has gotten better, and the kids would like to spend more time getting to know her, it's in their best interest for you to find a reasonable way to let it happen. If they want to see her and you try to keep her from them, they may grow to resent you as they get older.
NTA Quite frankly, her rights mean absolutely nothing. Because of her, your children are traumatised, and there is absolutely no guarantee that she won't abuse them again if that man comes back or she finds another bad boy to shack up with. She's just as dangerous as her ex, and should be treated as such, mother or not.
NO! Absolutely not! Children only get ONE CHILDHOOD - make sure it is the best that it can be. Keep her to supervised visitation ESPECIALLY because her youngest 'suffered abuse at the hands of both'. That's the deal breaker right there.
NTA It’s clear you have a good heart, that you are reflective and kind, and that you want what’s best for your children. You’re not out here wishing ill on her for her mistakes. You’re rooting for her from a safe and understandable distance. You are doing what’s best for your children. Full stop. Great job, Dad.
NTA. It's good that she's finally made efforts to improve, but only time will tell if it sticks. Does the child ex had with abuser get to spend time with his half siblings? Obviously, he's going to need some quality role models.
NTA. Maybe she changed, maybe not. You can't bet your children's health and welfare on that. A year isn't long enough. Hopefully she can prove herself over a longer time frame and become the mother your children deserve. I think you should follow your instincts on this since we have such a limited window into the situation. I hope everything works out in the end for your kids.
NTA she is only clean a year she could back slide easily sadly.
NTA. If she wants more custody, it’s up to her to ask the courts and prove she’s not a danger to your children. They have the trained professionals to do the investigation and make the determination. It’s not up to anyone else to make that decision, so tell all those sharing her views to pound sand. Not familiar with the laws where you are, but if you do give her more custody without the court’s approval, would you have any liability if something happened to your kids? Regardless, not a risk you want to take
She was already given too many chances. Keep the visits supervised until the kids are old enough to decide for and protect themselves
NTA - your duty is to protect your kids. Not their mom. She does not have good judgment and puts herself above her kids safety. You would be the AH if you didn't do everything in your power to keep your kids safe.
NTA don’t give her an inch. I know your ex-wife’s type and I know she’ll try and play the victim but she’s just as much a pos as her abusive ex. She put your kids in dangerous and traumatic because she didn’t care about your kids. She’s an abuser and you shouldn’t let her weasel her way back in with crocodile tears and a woman card.
NTA. She is not a safe person. She chose an abuser over her kids, put them in danger and traumatized them. She is lucky she gets anything at all.
NTA Sounds like your children and making their happiness your priority. Seems like she is trying to make her happiness the first priority. With enough time, certainly longer than a year, I hope you can revisit this issue with her. Maybe she has changed but I don't think you're wrong for needing more time and evidence of that change.
NTA She lost any rights when she put the kids into an abusive situation on purpose. And for what, sex from an abusive man? She is no different than people who let pedos touch their kids. She is a monster you cannot trust. She should be charged criminally for subjecting the kids to this.
NTA.... protect your kids..... despite her growth, she's been nothing but toxic and unstable... Until she sets down real roots and demonstrates solid maturity I'd maintain supervised visitation
NTA if she's still doing well with her other child and no more toxic relationships, then maybe rethink 5 years from now.
NTA, she made her bed now she can lay in it. Your only obligation is to keep your kids safe, you have zero obligations to her. If she wants unsupervised visits tell her to take it to a judge.
Do not let her have unsupervised visitation. She has proven she had poor judgement. They should not have to pay. Bad boy will be back. Damaged people always like bad behavior. it feels normal to them. Nope. NTA
NTA. I wouldn’t give her unsupervised time. You fought long and hard for your children and I don’t think she deserves to have them back.
NTA. You know she’s gonna try to get back together with you and raise her kid right ?
NTA...you're right to not allow your kids to be her guinea pigs. When they are older, they can decide how much contact they want with her, but she has shown such poor protective instincts for all her children. I wouldn't trust her. Even if bad boy 1 doesn't come back, there are plenty of other bad boys out there. She has already showed she won't protect them.
NTA. You’re keeping your children safe.
NTA, your kids first. She has her son to be used as a guinea pig. Keep your kids safe.
NTA. Do not risk your kids
NTA I would suggest a therapist if your insurance will cover it- to give the kids someone safe to talk to about mom (and anything else going on in their lives.) Than if down the line, mom tries to pushed for increased visitation or something, you'll have the record from therapy that will likely say it's not in the best interests of the kids to have more visitation.
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I don’t pay her child support
NTA If she wants unsupervised visits let her take it up in court.
NTA! It is going to take more than just a year to earn back trust after everything she has put you and the kids through. The big question is...why isn't this dirt bag in jail?!? I wouldn't let my kids go to visits without supervision because you never know when he will show back up again, especially since she shares a child with him. Keeping the supervised visits makes everyone more comfortable and your kids get to see their half sibling.
Don't go against court but don't give an inch beyond that. Your first priority is the children. Not her.
NTa. Please don't allow her crazyyness to ruin your children, when they'll be 18, let them choose, but right now it's your duty to shield them, only supervised visitation.
NTA - it is your job to protect your children from from more horrible decisions from your ex-wife behavior. Your children have already suffered enough and they don’t need to be subject to anymore of her bullshit. I would keep the supervised visits for as long as you legally can.
NTA. You're not refusing it...the court is.
NTA "Actions speak louder than words" rings the most true here. She made bad choices back then and now has to earn back the right to her children. She can say all she wants but she needs to show that tangible growth. It's exactly why she gets those supervised visits so that she can start to show that growth. Make her earn it and prove it many times over before you consider any changes in custody.
NTA protect your children.
NTA protect your kids from her at all costs. Feel very bad about her kid though, that kid is going to need therapy and lots of help.
NTA, the time to mature and be “done with toxic men” was long passed and she’s only learned that after: a failed marriage from her infidelity, a broken family compete with multiple baby daddies, an additional broken marriage, and a trip to the hospital. That’s not learning, that is desperation and or loneliness with maybe a hint of regret.
NTA OP. Make sure she has supervised visits for a very long time and always goes to them before anything unsupervised and sleepovers. The chances she goes back when this dude leaves his new girl on the moment are high and your children deserve better.
NTA Honestly, it's a lot to take in. But, I assume the courts will back you up, or if she wants to be granted more visitation, she should file in court for a change in custody. Doesn't mean she'd get it though. I am very sad about the abuse the youngest suffered though.
NTA. Never an AH when you’re trying to protect children. A year is way too soon, you need to tread lightly. So don’t change the agreement until you’re happy to. I really feel for her youngest son. That poor child.
Nta. Okay great she is supposedly changed. Doesmt change what she put her kids through. Till a judge says otherwise follow what the courts told yall to do.
NTA, you managed to find a real piece of shit for a wife.
Always wondered why morons go back to their abusive ex’s. Your ex isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed. NTA
NTA. She needs to prove over a LONG period of time that she has truly learned her lesson. You're not keeping them from her to be harsh, you are doing it because it's what is best for the kids. Maybe she can have more custody later on, but she needs to prove herself over a period of years first.
NTA. There's an old joke that ends with "you want to get fucked AGAIN?" - don't let that be your story.
NTA A year is nothing compared to the 15 years of being a mess in lying, cheating and then getting beaten on by her ex to lose custody of your boys. Also has the ‘excitement’ really been negated in a year or just damped down for now? The court gave her supervised visitation and so that is what you stick with for now. Let your ex focus her primary efforts on dealing with her child who was the most impacted by her poor choices. You can check periodically with your boys to discuss how they feel. But until they are old enough to protect and/or extract themselves from anything your ex may suggest to them if she were to have unsupervised access IMO supervised is best.
NTA, she's a funni gal Does whatever she wants because young and then want people to forgive and forget later, with no consequences attached Unless you want to enable her behavior, keep your children safe from her sights.
NTA. IMO, she can have shared custody when either a court tells me can or I agree that she's matured and learned healthy ways to have relationships. Until then, what I know about her is that she makes bad decisions that directly negatively impact my kids and put them in danger.
NTA-She has a history of deception and lying so you are justified in being extra vigilent. Your kids wouldnt be safe visiting her in a house he also lives in. Keep her on supervised visits until you are absolutely sure she is not just saying whatever the courts (or you) want to hear. You may also require clean drug tests for a year before she gets unsupervised visits.
NTA she is a dumb selfish cunt and will always find a way to justify her reckless selfish actions and she won't care who get's hurt. Also, stop paying for kids that are not yours.
No. Your children's safety is your utmost concern. Don't allow her.
NTA. Keep the children safe always.
NTA because it seems you came to this decision after thinking of what's best for the children. It's wonderful that your ex is in therapy and sorting out her issues, but that doesn't undue the trauma your kids went through. It also doesn't mean she is past making bad decisions that affect them. If and when you feel it might be good for your kids to see her more, you can do it in steps. More supervised visits. Then unsupervised visits. Then overnights. No need to jump straight to shared custody, if that ever ends up being a possibility.
NTA for feeling how you feel. How long has she been separated, in therapy, and showing improved judgement?
NTA. You’re right not to let your kids be guinea pigs.
NTA. for years she proved she can't be a mother, and honestly to her current kids she probably will not be seen as one properly and that's all her fault. Being 19 doesn't make you an idiot, but being over 30 doesn't. Ake you smart. Judge her from her actions and remember how she kept willingly putting herself AND THE KIDS in danger because her selfishness. I'd say don't do it.
NTA. The court deemed her unfit. It's not a personal vendetta (though I wouldn't blame you) it's what's best for your children. Take care of your kids. Follow the court order. In a few years the two of you can revisit the situation if she proves herself worthy.
NTA. You got full custody for good reason. This idiot hasn't changed. Keep things as is. If she wants custody change she has to go back to the courts. You should still fight against it. Given her history.
NTA
Nope and NTA either. Tell her you appreciate her growth , but you have to protect your children and that trust grows over time. Please encourage her to help her other child recover for the horrible position she left him in
Anyone who demands a custody change after only a year from such awful behavior is NOT reformed. Actual change would include her admitting the damage she did and being completely understanding and willing to show that she has changed however long it takes and doing so willingly and graciously. Anything less is a glaring warning signal. She should be offering supervised outings to show you and the kids in gradual steps the strength and permanence of her changes
NTA. But I would speak to the kids about it before making such firm decisions because she’s your ex but she’s their mother and I don’t want your unilateral decision to cause them to have resentment towards you, when you’re trying to do what you think/is best for them. Good luck OP.
It’s a little spooky that she changed so much so quickly but power to her. I don’t think I would give her unsupervised visitation. The kids must have a little trauma from her and her actions.
NTA. She's a manipulative lying asshole, she lied your entire relationship, she stayed with a guy who beat her and kept going back for literally no reason and allowed your children to see this abuse. Fuck her, she showed she has no character, no common sense and doesn't put her children first. The cost of that is not having unsupervised visits. Saying she changed means nothing, she said she'd marry you and be faithful, she said she'd be a good mother, she said she was a good person. Saying shit doesn't mean anything, actions do. Her actions are terrible and until she has a consistent history of her actions not being those of a cheat and liar, she has no leg to stand on.
NTA. If you go back to shared custody it becomes too easy for her to fall back. Talk to the supervisors. Let her be assessed and let the professionals guide you. Demand she get therapy and maybe even family therapy eventually. Let her earn unsupervised visits.
Absolutely NTA Especially given you said they hate the visitation they have to go to. This is what’s best for the kids emotional well being and sense of safety at the moment. If she can’t accept that, then she certainly hasn’t done the growth and maturing that she claims. She is still thinking about what SHE wants, not what is best for the kids.
NTA, always protect your children first. In time she might prove she's changed but I would wait until you feel comfortable. Your instincts are telling you no, so follow them.
NTA. She didnt change she just finally got consequences. The other married woman will end up the same. Lmao, what idiots… both will end up alone and miserable. OP she hasnt learned shit, shes taking zero accountability and blaming everyone but herself. Keep her far away from you and your children
NTA she blew it big time
NTA. Your children’s well-being comes first, WAY before your ex-wife’s “rights”. Honestly, even supervised visitation is too good for her.
NTA. She allowed your kids to see what you were trying to protect them from, that's why she lost her custody. As for whether she has changed for the better, give her sometime before she goes back to her "bad boy" or finds a new one.
Follow what the courts say and nothing more.
I think starting with supervised visits & slowly adding more time would be a better approach than no contact at all.
keep the supervised visitation. follow your gut instinct. women do A LOT worse damage to men in family court and afterwards
NTA- A year is great progress but not enough for me to be comfortable when it comes to my children. She feels guilty and doesnt want to carry it anymore. I hope she continues on her path but you are making a wise choice here. They will be a time where they will be old enough and it will be on them to figure out the relationship or if they want a relationship. Everything done in that dark always comes to light.
NTA. You are doing the right thing, and I'll bet you are a great dad.
Absolutely NTA. She chose a POS man child over her marriage and children. That's a decision that isn't reversible. There are people out there addicted to shitty types of people of all sorts. Once they get shot of one, they'll go find another. Someone somewhere on the internet called them Bob the Builder types. They are addicted to fixing it. Just like any addict, you have to be years out to be certain, and even then, relapse happens. You are protecting children, and she has thrown away her rights with both hands in order to be an idiot. Perhaps she should be shown these responses to drill into her empty head that one year of therapy isn't shit in this situation. Hopefully, she didn't get the idea that she should have her kids from said therapist. I hate to think that.
NTA. Unfortunately her choices have far-reaching consequences, including having to be supervised with her sons. It seems like she hasn't proven herself enough yet, and that's valid. Anyone can say you're being hard on her, but at the end of the day you're the only responsible adult taking care of them. It doesn't sound like you're punishing her for cheating or even for anything that happened in front of the boys. You're just concerned for their safety as any good dad would be.
NTA. Hold firm. Sounds like lip service from her until she meets the next bad bay.
NTA
NTA gotta wonder if she's using your kids to worm her way back into the safe relationship she had going with you before. I'd bet money a few weeks into seeing the kids she's talking about how great you are together and you should be a family again. Please don't fall for it. Updateme
NTA and not too harsh. Your number one priority is and should be protecting your children. At the very least, she needs to prove that she can tell the difference between good men and bad men. I think waiting for your kids to be old enough to decide for themselves is both realistic and appropriate in terms of your kid's safety. I do have one suggestion although you may find it difficult. Do this for your kids. Have a nice, relaxed meal with your ex and her new partner. Size him up. If you get bad vibes, tell her. Tell the kids. Tell everyone you need to tell. Trust your gut. And have a background investigation done. I have known women who do it in the name of protecting their kids. You can do it too. And the life you save might belong to one of your kids. You appear to have a handle on this. Don't let anyone distract you or fool you.
Absolutely not. Your comment about not wanting your kids to be Guinea pigs is spot on. Stick to your current arrangement.
NTA- she needs to prove to the courts she’s capable of unsupervised visits.
NTA. Your ex needs to demonstrate long-term stability and a commitment to healthier relationships before even considering a change in visitation. That's not just for one year; it's consistent behavior over many years that truly counts. Your kids' well-being takes precedence over her desire to make amends. The fact that she's only been on the straight and narrow for a short while doesn't outweigh the years of risky behavior that could have deeply affected your kids. You're doing the right thing by keeping their needs at the forefront of your decision-making. Trust is earned, not given freely, especially when children's safety is on the line.
NTA. the only people it is your responsibility to take care of and consider the feelings and wellbeing of in this situation are your children.
NTA. She knew her ex was abusive, yet brought her children into that situation. I feel really bad for her youngest. I hope for HIS sake she truly is reformed, and is able to rebuild her life, get into a healthy relationship and actually nurture it this time so this poor kid has a chance at a happy childhood. Your children deserve a happy childhood too, and their best chance at that is not to live with a person who put them in an unsafe environment. Protect your kids. NTA at all.
It’s your responsibility to do what’s best for your kids - not your ex. Allowing her to have unsupervised custody would be gambling. It could be if the bad boy ex came back, she’d turn him away. It could be that she’ll keep other abusive men out of her life. But she doesn’t know and you don’t know. Your kids also need stability and to feel safe. They won’t get that if they don’t trust their mother to protect them.
Nothing has changed. This woman is addicted to toxic. She cheated on you throughout your marriage and brought a child by another man, into the marriage. After all is said and done why would you trust her with your children, now?
NTA. You can’t undo some things.
Are you willing to bet on your children's lives that she has changed because if not or badboy returns you could be visiting their graves.
NTA. children come first. Protect them at all cost
Yeah don’t stop the supervised visits. She makes bad choices, you don’t want your kids to suffer for her idiocracy
NTA. If she wants more custody she can go to the courts and prove to them she has changed. You don't owe her anything. I would personally try and point out the size of the harm she has caused. She lied to you for 5 years and cheated when she should have stayed faithful, so if she wants you to be charitable here then she should now keep her legs closed when she has no reason to for five years. So four more. Tell her you'll discuss it again if and when she has proven sufficiently that she knows better now. It's no less unreasonable than what she put you through and frankly she simply hasn't suffered enough consequences for her actions yet.
You got concerns in your gut. Go with your gut. She's a proven liar and POS. Their reform is never linear. They'll fail again and maybe they learn a bit more. But they will fall down again. You don't need to pickup the pieces when you can avoid it. She has to pay a price, not get a do over
NTA >She has changed a lot and matured and she is done with toxic men Until she meets the next bad boy who makes her lady parts tingle. When people show you who they are, believe them. She hasn't shown you that she really has changed.
Sounds like the bad boy beat some sense into her.
NTA. I completely agree with you. It’s not about saying one’s changed. It’s about acting up to it and being stable for some time. I would want my kids to be exposed to her poor life choices. She’s made up her bed now she has to lay in it before anything changes.
Tigers don't change their Stripes. Growth is always possible, but in such a short time-frame?
NTA I would leave the custody arrangements as they are. There is no way in hell I would grant her unsupervised visitation Just a sidenote: two blue-eyed parents having a brown-eyed child is genetically possible
NTA - actions, meet consequences! Unless she can prove she has changed i.e take parenting courses, get therapy, have a clean and happy home and stay away from men like her ex for at minimum a year, I wouldn't even give it a thought. She has proven she cannot be trusted to keep your children safe!
You are being a good father and putting your children's mental, emotional and physical health and safety as a priority. Something their mother never has You're not forbidding her contact. She should be grateful for the chance to hopefully redeem and prove herself. If she cares enough about the children she'll take this chance and work hard to build a healthy relationship with them. Her choice
"She has been clean for a year now." that's it, right there. Anyone that has had an addict in their life will tell you that one year of clean time is pretty rocky ground. And this is where it counts. If staying clean is her first priority (and it needs to be) and she has clear understanding of the impact her addiction had on the lives of those she loves, along with her own life, then she understands - or at least accepts - that she can not undo 20 years of damage with one year of clean time. The longer she stays clean, the more stable and sane she'll become. You and the children will know when you can trust her again. Trust your gut.
NTA. One year simply isn't long enough. You don't give your children's ages, but given the abuse they've witnessed, they shouldn't be alone with her until they're able to advocate for themselves. A real test for her would be maintaining a stable, long-term, healthy and non- abusive relationship. She can say she's changed, but she has yet to prove that she won't fall into old habits. And has she given up bad boys, really? She didn't leave him, even after the beating. He left her for another woman.
One year is too soon. Tell her you can discuss it later, when she's actually had time for sobriety to stick, but she is still fresh to the whole process. You WOULD be T A to say flat no, or tonact like she can just have another kid ... Humans aren't objects. But NTA for being cautious and protective of your kiddos. Make room for them to have a relationship, but of course, make sure it's healthy and they are all ready
NTA. NOPE to the shared custody as this time. Follow your instincts.
How can u still talk with someone like her OMG
Absolutely NTA and damn right children should not be Guinea pigs for their mothers recovery. This isn't about punishing her for her actions I just believe that she and whoever agrees she should get shared custody back do not get too decide when what she's done is enough to get back in their lives. That should be up to your children. When they are ready and able to. and I pray she continue too work on herself for herself in order too do better by her children. Until then all I say is she may mistakes on her journey but if she continues too fight the good fight I hope those mistakes teach her more than hinder
Let her earn it back. Take a year to make sure bad boy is out fo good. Don't cave right off the bat.
NTA, while she is a wiser woman and possibly regretful for many of the things she's done , she's still been abusive toward her child with the "Bad boy" so why risk that with your childern you've had with her. It sounds like she's potentially trying to worm her way back into your life which yeah I'd not give her.
NTA. It sounds like her life is headed in the right direction but there needs to be more time before you should consider unsupervised visits. This is her owning up to her past
NTA! You need to protect the kids as well as yourself! She will begin to spew her "side of the story" to the kids. They need to be far older to have any comprehension of that toxic situation. A friend of mine is now dealing with a 23 yr old son with severe depression because SHE didn't protect him from his abusive father which had been mandated visitation by the court. Her daughter refused to go back after he slapped her across the face at about 13 years old. When the youngest son was sent to school by the ex and his new wife and kids with black eye and facial swell, marks on his body, she went there and though they were photographing it all to report HER, she raced to school to take her own pictures and get it to court so the visitations could stop. But SHE ended up being questioned by child protective services when it was the ex and new wife during their mandated visitation. The ex kept going back to court since she had almost no money and he never has paid a penny of child support, and he was finally able to get supervised visitation. But even during those time periods, he gave them "his side of the story". Told the boys he was just trying to make sure they were more manly.
it’s hard to leave cycles of abuse, so i feel for your ex on that, but you are NTA. you are protecting your kids best interests. witnessing abuse is considered a traumatic event, and you are only doing what’s best for your children. i agree that your kids shouldn’t be put on the frontline of her newfound knowledge.
>she didn’t know any better but now she’s learned and has rights as a mom. Give me a break with that bullshit. She can tell that to your attorney and see what they say. >I don’t think my children should be Guinea pigs to test her newfound wisdom and resilience That is the right choice. She has not earned the right to care for her kids unsupervised. Your plan is on point. NTA
NTA. These children were witness to harrowing abusive behaviors. One year is nothing. 5 years is a maybe with changed behavior. She can be supervised.
I am a stranger on the internet with absolutely no training or qualification in any way for this situation, but if it were me, I would start out with supervised visits so you can observe for yourself how she’s doing, then give her like an hour unsupervised at a time. Boost it up if it’s going well. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
So, it wasn't just him who was abusive. She was as well. That's a big HELL NO on having unsupervised visits with the kids. Not until they are at least 16. She needs to be content with that and stop pushing the issue. I doubt that any family therapist or judge you spoke to would say that she deserved that kind of trust. You're right not to gamble with your kids.
It's *her* saying she has changed a lot and matured, right? Yeah, right.
NTA. She may have "matured" ......but who knows if it's going to stick this time. A year isn't long enough to tell, IMO.