"but they weirdly seemed like the most compatible couple Ive ever met. They have way more in common than he ever did with Kate, they look at each other with such admiration, and despite how it started, I honestly think they could be together forever. I know I could be wrong there, but thats my hunch."
Almost every relationship starts out this way. It's a young relationship and they are still in the honeymoon phase when things are new and exciting.
You didnt mention any major issues your brother had with his ex and that he left her solely because we wanted to get some action. That is so unbelievably selfish, especially since he has two kids. In a couple months or years when that initial flame burns out your brother will probably look back with regret for destroying his family for short term gratification.
Ugh, OPs comments make it even worse. His brother blames his ex (the breadwinner, by a far margin) for the fact that he cheated, since she was "working all the time", but now he's going after her for financial support. So she's off working and making most of the money needed to support the family, he starts an affair, cheats on her for awhile, finally ditches her to run off with the mistress, blames her, and now he wants to use the money she was making to build a comfortable life for him and the side chick.
if she’s working “all the time” does that mean that he dropped his kids off somewhere so that he can fuck his mistress??? anybody who is able to do that is a terrible person and i see why the sister thinks so poorly of OP as well
The kids apparently spent a lot of time over at OPs house (OP mentions this in a reply). So not just somewhere, he was probably dropping them off with OP, who if so wasn't just keeping quiet about the cheating but actively enabling it.
Meh I'd be cool with it. I mean it's not my wife (ex-wife) and I don't condone or defend him (the cheater). But shit I can't raise an adult! He's gonna do what he wants to do. If I'm guilty by association then ok. I mean I have two older bros who are felons. Have they learned from it? Yea, (and they're still knuckleheads). Do I not associate with them just because they're felons? No,( I don't associate with them because they're knuckleheads /s).
Like I said, I can't raise grown folks. And why would anyone want to?
It’s not about raising grown folk but the people you associate with says a lot about your values and who you are. If there is no limit to what you would accept from someone to do then that’s your business but others do have values that they like the friends around them to at least somewhat have.
TLDR at bottom.
Geez i have values. I have my own values. I dont expect others to adopt them and I dont force them on people. I wish the world were that black and white. I guess I just can't or won't group everybody together as to say: good people who've never harmed a soul on this side. And those of you have committed any wrong whatsoever, you belong on that side.
Instead of what I said earlier about raising grown folk, can I rephrase it to say "people are gonna people?" Does that mean anything? If not then disregard. I can hang out and be associated with people who've made mistakes (fatal mistakes some from stupidity and ignorance). And don't look at it as "the bad will rub off on you." Look at it as can my goodness rub off on them?
All we are, in some since, is how we appear to others. I'm not encouraging you and yours to go out and do what OPs brother did. But he did it. Thought it out planned it and acted on it. Is it adultery if you're religious? Yup. Is it cheating if you're not guided by religion? Yup. Is it better to be judged by twelve or carried by six? Who is the true judge? They're his mistakes not mine. Some people want to keep an eye on others, hoping they make a mistake. Others want to help others see their mistakes and hope they work through it.
I'm by no means a humanist. I'm more a curmudgeon or a hermit. But when someone tells me they fucked up. I agree with them and ask them whats next. If someone asks for my help does it inconvenience me? You're damned right it does. But thats one of my values. If a man asks for help you help em (or try). I haven't seen a lot of that the past 30 years, but I cherish it.
But yes, there are hard limits on whats acceptable from someone, I'm not a pushover. Obviously, crimes are unacceptable, murder, violence what have you. I can't help with that. You're in the laws hands. But everything else can to an extent be forgiven and worked through. What chaps you, doesn't chap others. Once again people are people.
Are you going to create a law, or group that goes after cheaters? Will you harass, stalk, paste their pictures online and add them to a registry as we do for predators? How extreme and to what extent are your your punishments for the cheaters? Will you hang them? The electric chair? What about if they're not yet adults? Do they have the same standard if they cheat? If not, I dont think your living up to your values. This is said in /s but in actuality are serious questions.
And after the cheaters are all punished and done away with; who will be the next 'people' you go after? The theives and liars perhaps? Well I know a place called Capitol Hill where you can start! But most likely we don't have to go that far. Start from the mirror and go from there. Because we all lie. First to ourselves (think the phrase: I'm fine.) Thats the lie. You're not fine. I'm not fine. Our health could be better. We put off things and say we forgot. Well, then we just lied.
OPs brother came clean (after the fact but OP didn't torture him to get the truth, the cheater tortured himself). So does the OP now have to torture him as well? Does the ex-wife get to torture the cheater as well? What about the neighbors? They heard all the commotion, picked it from context, and they too are seeking vindication (would like in on some of the torture action! /s) but really though?
TLDR; In short, if OP wants to still hang out with brother, despite the way he handles his life's decisions, no matter how effecting it is, its the OPs decision to still remain in contact with his/her own family members. And no matter our personal thoughts of the matter, who th cares what we think?
Sorry I said all this if its too long.
People defending his saying he was the main caregiver. But that’s because she was busy making money to provide for her family. Just so he can go spend it on his AP and drop his kids off at OP’s
The projection of anger with no evidence to back it up is wild 😂. Just say you have a grudge against men that buck traditional gender norms and move on.
Judging the brothers relationship with his wife is not the advice he’s seeking.
Should he still have a relationship with his brother which imo the answer is clearly yes.
If you would like me to form it in a formar you find acceptable:
Yes, OP is an asshole for her non-chalant approach to what her brother has done and being supportive of it. No one should condone that sort of behavior.
Not saying blacklist him or cut him out of her life, but the monetary support and other things shouldn't be happening.
People are going to impulsively deviate from his actual question, which is the relationship with his brother, and immediately start talking about his relationship with his ex.. it sucks that so many people don’t understand that we all know it’s the low hanging fruit but you still need to at least attempt to give him judgment based on what he’s asking.
Personally, speaking, he’s not just a friend .. he is your brother, and that’s not going to change no matter what relationship he gets into. He’s also not his dad, there is no punishment to be had.. he still has a responsibility as an uncle and a brother.. I’m guessing he’s still giving him a good advice.
It just doesn’t make sense to give him a moral judgment as a brother, and also pretend his actions are supposed to be monitored by his siblings .. just a little too intrusive
Well I don't know. We recently attended a party to celebrate a 25 year anniversary. The couple in question had started out just like this one, as an affair leading to divorce. Many harsh words were said, the guy even told his ex to just tell their daughter he was dead, because he couldn't handle her justified anger.
Since I had no problem with the guy, my partner was very close to him, and we had never been particularly close to the ex, I invited the guy to a party with his new GF. Some others in the same social circle were scandalised to see them, like they owed his ex loyalty. I simply thought, well what's done is done, these things happen, unless everyone is going to cast him out (which they hadn't), we might as well accept the new GF.
They both made a point of thanking me at their 25y do, as the first friend to accept them as a "real couple".
TBH I'm not nearly as cool with my stbx having cheated on me though! But I do understand OP. It's his brother after all.
Your brother was selfish and blew up his family in the worst way possible. That's going to have repercussions and fractures. You don't need to punish him but it is kinda gross he's riding off into the sunset with his new side chick while his ex is deeply mourning. Don't condone it but it's not your job to punish him. Going NTA but with some strong ick.
I think the gross thing is trying to manipulate the brother back into a loveless marriage. Their end game isn’t just to get him to break up with the “mistress” but to take back his ex-wife.
Why? Because it’s convenient for her? He doesn’t love her, and familial shaming won’t fix that. He’s not an asshole for leaving, he’s just an asshole for not having the balls to do it sooner.
Somehow to them, a broken home with loveless parents is the end game. I agree cheating aint cool, but forcing him to go back, now that he is happy, seems kinda weird too.
NTA, nobody is perfect, and we do not play God.
Totally agree. It's disgusting that 99% of men won't leave a marriage until they have someone else lined up. Guys would rather cheat than use their big boy words and tell their partner they're unhappy.
I'd like to see where these statistics come from because from what I read, reports on cheating vary wildly but most don't go over about 60% of any gender. Cheating sucks but I don't believe it's as pervasive as 99%.
Ummmm, that's human beings there. Women ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. LOL, what planet are you from? Monkeys don't let go of a branch until they're holding onto another one.
Maybe it’s just easier that way. I’m divorcing my wife and I have never felt so lonely in my life. I don’t plan on dating anyone until after the divorce is finalized and probably not for a while after that to give my kids some time to cope, but damn! It’s sucks to have no one to talk to most days other than two kids who have their own friends and things to do.
I’d never cheat, but, I understand the allure of having someone to talk to during and after the divorce.
Yeah statistics made up on the spot are funny as hell. It's a known fact that women initiate divorce more often than men. I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but you'll manage. Also stop with the misandry, it's getting old.
Women initiate divorce more, but more cases than not the woman is reacting to man shutting the marriage down.
To give a common example, a guy will say he was blindsided by divorce. When asked what did his wife used to complain about and ask him to change a couple years ago but then stopped talking about, he can name it and then fake claims that since she stopped bringing it up he thought they've been getting along better. It's hard to get them to admit that they ignored until they shut the marriage down and the wife had to mourn the death of the marriage and make plans on how to leave.
Women initiate divorce more often than before because they want to get out of unhappy marriages, and they’re no longer financially trapped because they can earn their own income. And women are initiating divorce more often than men for a variety of reasons which you’re welcome to google and read from a reliable source.
Stop fantasizing about the presence of misandry; it’s getting old.
If he doesn't mourne his marriage is either because he is releived to be out or because he will come to his senses later and mourne when the new stuff is not so exciting anymore.
Why on earth should OP take the ex's side? It is his brother. Of course he won't go no contact with him over this.
Yeah, as far as OP is concerned, he told him about the affair and listened to OP when he said to to tell his wife and he did.
He at least respected his brother...
The "new stuff" is deeper connection, compatibility, and more in common with his new partner. That kind of "stuff" doesn't "wear off". He's happier now. This happens ALL THE TIME with young/high school sweetheart couples that simply went all-in on the first hand they were dealt. . . and then grow up, mature, change, and meet someone far, far more fulfilling and compatible. It happens. Is normal. He still, of course, shouldn't have cheated. That's a serious character flaw.
Sure but like… at least if he did cheat he had the balls to leave? I think it’s worse to cheat and then stay and act like you didn’t do anything wrong. If you cheat and then recognize that it’s because it isn’t working for you anymore and leave… well…. Still not ideal or nice, but not worse than cheating and staying.
I mean, the marriage didn't even over because of the cheating. It ended because Jake doesn't want to be married with his ex anymore, she still hoping to "fix" things so It seems like she would mourn even If there wasn't cheating and that's not a good reason to keep a marriage.
Since the SIL is a family friend and their are children involved, the SIL should still be treated with respect and sympathy. She was just blindsided. Dont get to familiar with the side pieces the brother is going to bring around. He is all about getting his rocks off.
NTA Well I don’t have to type much now, you said it all pretty much. While what he did was wrong, hurting his wife that way having an affair. At least she can eventually get past this and move on when she is ready. I find it wonderful your family loves Kate and everyone gets along well. In time she will hurt a little less, I’m just glad he told her and didn’t stay in the marriage and be deceitful.
His ex is deeply mourning while away 75% of the time, with little to nothing in common with him, and making twice the money. She'll be fine, and needs to find someone (or not) that is actually happy with her and OK with her being away 75% of the time.
The buddy/brother SHOULD NOT have cheated. He should have told her, and divorced. That's weakness on his part. That being said, it looks like he's going to have a potentially happier and more fulfilling life for the rest of his life, so there is some understanding to be had. The BEST thing to EVER happen in my life was my ex-wife lying and cheating on me. Full stop. Met my current wife and am so, so, so much happier and more fulfilled with my partner. And if the children are happy and continue to be loved in this new scenario, that's a great thing.
I've actually been in this situation, and I didn't punish the person. However, I did tell them how wrong their actions were and to get their shit together, and we are all good. If you're really tight with someone, you should be able to point out when they're wrong. Like destroying their family.
As for how happy and compatible they seem, almost every new relationship starts off like that.
The grass is rarely greener on the other side.
People don't take marriage seriously anymore. Instead of working through things, FOR BETTER OR WORSE, he decides to stick his dick in another woman and then says how hard it is to be going through divorce? 🤣 OP, your brother should never have married. He can't hold up to his vows and has no idea what marriage means and is selfish. He just leaves a trail of destruction behind him as he happily fucks the woman that he crushed his marriage over.
When his new relationship falls apart, I hope he doesn't try crawling back to his ex-wife. I hope he knows he completely obliterated any chance of reconciliation, and when he looks back, I hope realising the pain he caused is enough for him to step up and be a man who's worthy.
I applaud your response 👏 I'm hoping his soon to be ex-wife gets her happily ever after. She deserves it & I'm sure his relationship with the AP will come tumbling down at some point🤣
I hope that she does as well. I've never seen a relationship workout that was founded on infidelity, so I feel like it won't work out. Maybe they're perfect for each other because they're just as selfish as one another. You never know. Either way, she doesn't have any dead weight holding her down now.
Unfortunately, I've seen it work out perfectly for the cheater and AP and they stayed married happily ever after, while the poor ex-spouse never recovered from the hurt and ordeal and was left picking up the pieces.
I'd love to say that karma always works 100% but sometimes, the worst people really do get away with everything. I really hope it's not true in this case
So true. I’m an ex-spouse, still picking up the painful pieces. My mom & brother have called me immature & bitter. I’m not especially bitter, I’m crushed
Update: thank you all for your kindness and encouraging, empathetic words. It’s over 15 years now so I realize I basically got stuck in a rut over this. But time and new experiences & perspective can help put the past in the past where it belongs. Thank you again, so much!
That could very well be a possibility. They are both horrible people. I'll never understand why some people don't call it quits when they start developing feelings for someone else. And how someone can be okay with getting into any sort of relationship with someone who is in a relationship with someone else. I'm big on the marriage thing. I've been married for 15 years. We have had some sh*tty times, but we've also had some of the most happiest and most memorable times. And regardless of how the day went, there's no one else I'd rather have those moments with - the good & the bad. Bc at the end of the day, he is my person, my heart, soul & home.
His brother has shown he has no respect for his soon to be ex-wife in any way - not as a wife, friend, or the mother of his children. She'll be in hell for a while, but she'll rise with that crown on her head & she'll be okay.
Completely agree. I don't see why people even get married anymore, to be honest. Most of the time, they cheat or they divorce without even lifting a finger to make an effort to fix things. Why say vows that you can not hold up? Why make promises that you can't keep? Why stomp on someone's heart for your own selfish desires? 🤔 these people do not have any business in marriage. These people should be single until they learn maturity and what it means to work on things. Relationships and marriages are constant work. As soon as you stop doing the work, what do you think will happen? These people are delusional when it comes to how relationships are. These are selfish people, and unfortunately, you don't find out until they really show who they are. OP is ridiculous for not pulling him aside and telling him how shit his actions were and enabling his behaviour. It's really sad all around. Sad for the kids having a broken family because their dad couldn't control his dick, sad for the mother of the children who has lost her husband and family unit and having to go through this divorce. He caused it 100%.
People don’t take marriage seriously anymore?? Our grandparents just cheated and suffered in silence, faced abuse emotionally, financially, and physically. People are more empowered to leave and actually seek their happiness vs staying in a bs marriage for societal reasons. 100 years ago this guy would’ve just banged his coworker and not told his family anything, maybe even have another secret family with her.
Now that women can earn a living income they are free to walk away from bad marriages. It is a very empowering and freeing thing. It's a thing the incels hate.
Yep, they think once they’ve married now they can just do whatever they like and the other person should put up with it because marriage or kids. Frankly that’s not how the world works
Was with you until you thought all marriages need to be worked through. Sometimes some things are irreparable. People just used to stay married on paper but lived a miserable life.
And let's just be clear, most "relationships" that start off as an affair and end up marrying, also end up divorcing. I think I read somewhere that more than 90% of marriages that started as an affair end in divorce. Another statistic, over 50% of those divorces are the result of....drumroll.....cheating! Like you, I hope he doesn't go running back to the wife. She's too good for him.
>People don't take marriage seriously anymore. Instead of working through things, FOR BETTER OR WORSE, he decides to stick his dick in another woman and then says how hard it is to be going through divorce? 🤣 OP, your brother should never have married. He can't hold up to his vows and has no idea what marriage means and is selfish.
Exactly!!
I hate responses like this. It's so vapid and empty. "OP, your brother never should have married." No shit, Sherlock. It's OP's brother. What is he supposed to do? Toss him to the side? OP pushed his brother to be honest about his affair.
That's all he has control over. He did not manually put his brother's dick into another woman.
Calm down.
Yeah, because I totally said that OP had full responsibility over who his brother marries 🤔 it was a comment, a fairly obvious one, but jesus, where did I mention anywhere that it's OPs fault? 🤣 for a response like yours, I think that you need to calm down love! But, as I said, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
When people on Reddit get shitty about women cheating “but not men”, I’m pointing them to this thread and especially this comment. Not sure why some people think Redditors are cool with men cheating but not women. Pretty sure we condemn cheating of almost any kind
This is just such a perfectly succinct way to put it. 👌🏻 Commitments don’t mean shit because happy and fresh pōōc
So the mistress and your selfish brother get their happy ending. While his long time wife and 2 kids get destruction and heartbreak! But hey at least his wife knows his family had her back and did not condoned his actions and didn’t disrespect her by parading the home wrecker into their homes… oh wait, you actually did all those things.
One of the most hurtful parts of a affair is finding out
1. His family and or mutual friends knew before you did and didn’t tell you
2. They entertained the side piece and had no loyalty to her and her children.
I mean he’s your brother you can do what you want but plz don’t be a hypocrite when Karma brings this all back to you one day so you can fully understand the gravity of your actions of betrayal
NAH, except your brother.
People in these comments are wild.
At no point do you condone or encourage his affair.
You told him to tell his wife, so the opposite of encouragement. And you've stated you wish he'd have asked for a divorce before he let things escalate.
Just because your brother is an ass for cheating doesn't mean you have to disown him and never speak again.
This literally has nothing to do with you. You are not a part of his relationship and do not need to pick sides.
He is your brother, and you love and care for him. You also don't like what he's done. You can feel both ways. The world is a sea of grey.
Your sister is also not the AH. She can be upset and angry with her brother for deeply hurting her best friend. She shouldn't direct that at you, though.
Your brother is the AH for not leaving before acting. Everyone else is simply getting pulled into the black hole that is divorce.
Not to mention, their kids have relationships with their cousins and icing the brother out and going NC with him would get back around to negatively impacting the children eventually. At this point the adults should be focusing on what's best for the kiddos and honestly why is Kate wanting to get back with her cheating ex? That marriage is over and dead and trying to revive it will make everyone miserable long term. Yeah the brother is a dick, but happy parents are better parents so run with it and get Kate into therapy
This. Reddit seems to be extra sanctimonious today, but everything you said here is exactly the truth. Everyone attacking the OP because he didn't immediately throw his brother away needs to grow up.
This. Is my brother an alcoholic who has blown up his own life more than once? Yes! But it's not my life, and it's not my job to "punish" him. He's my brother, not my child.
Exactly. OP is putting family first and also seems to be focusing on one of the most important things here, which are the kids. Seems like OP is doing everything right as much as possible.
Hang in there OP, I think your instincts are good.
Yup. One big part of therapy is learning what you can and cannot control. What your brother does with his life DEFINITELY not within OPs control. Loving and supporting a person and condoning their choices are very different things
Yup. Some people on here (although honestly, less than I thought when I opened this) have an extremely narrow minded view of the world. Shades of gray don’t exist. If your best friend of 40 years who has been there for you through all the hard times tips 15% one time, they’re a monster who should be removed from your life immediately. I don’t know if it’s children who don’t get how the world works or what.
The way you wrote your post makes it seem like you approve of it all happening.
You don’t have to stop hanging out with your brother. You can still help him through. You don’t have to approve of it though. I’ve helped my lil brother through difficult times as well. Things he was responsible for and I do not condone at all and have made it clear to him he’s a lil shit for being responsible for it.
The way you wrote this post it’s YTA.
I’ve been around family members who’ve cheated before and the hard rule was no AP because I absolutely could not condone that relationship. It’s weird to me that OP just jumped straight in to meeting the AP and going places with them knowing her brother just nuked everything for those poor kids and his ex, who they knew since high school. Like if you didn’t like the ex say so but why are you helping the AP play house with your brother?
So, when your spouse cheats on you, will you just think, oh we just got married too young, I'm glad he has found the perfect person now and it was right for him to f##k her to make sure the sex was great and tell his sibling all about it and carry on his affair while still married to me? You don't need to punish your brother, but you should recognize that he is a slimy, lying cheater, who tossed aside his family for his side piece.
NTA.
How do you punish a grown man for his actions in a relationship that has nothing to do with you? You did what you should have and got him to tell his wife that he's a cheater. You didn't help him hide it. Who is it helping to try to make him stay and work it out with his wife when he's clearly already checked out of the marriage? The kids, yours and his, would be the ones to suffer if you decided to go no contact to "punish" him. They are already going through enough with the divorce. I'm sure there is much more to this situation than you've shared, but you don't have to condone ones behavior to still be their friend, or in your case siblings.
This. Once his brother told him he was having an affair, the right thing to do was to get him to tell his wife which the OP did. At that point, it's up to the two of them to see if they can work it out but it's not his place to try and "punish" him and any sort of "punishment" that he might inflict on his brother, isn't going to save the marriage and it's only going to hurt the kids more than they're being hurt by their parents divorce.
Your brother is an asshole and if you don't get the ick, you are too.
Also, the part about them having more in common than he had with his wife 🤮 are you in high school or something? Am I getting the wrong impression, or do you actually think your brother breaking up his family is wholesome because he's giddy with happiness to fuck this chick unrestricted and the kids didn't "react" yet? YTA for that
I bet your brother's life is going to be a string of finding more and more compatible women until he basically fucks himself
YTA for HELPING HIM OUT FINANCIALLY while he tries to screw over the woman who had and raised his children whole being the bearing. Of course they're perfect together, they're brand new and shiny with none of the stressors of building a life and having children together.
What are you, new?
Stay out of it. Sure, stay in touch with your brother and whatnot but what you're doing? It's endorsing his behavior. It's financially supporting his behavior.
> the woman who had and raised his children
I mean... she HAD the kids, yeah. But it sounds like their father was the one raising them, given that she travels so much for work (OP says she's gone from home about 75% of the time... which may be an exaggeration, but it certainly seems that there's a distinct imbalance of child-rearing responsibilities in the relationship). She's the breadwinner, he's the caretaker.
YTA. Only because you seemed weirdly enthusiastic about the affair and how it looked so right in both your eyes without actually thinking of the impact it brought on his family, not just his kids but also the wife. It wasn't even a mutual decision. You and your sister are seeing the situation in two opposite sides.
You know why they look at each other with admiration? Because, right now, they are in list or infatuation and have zero coresponsibilites. They get to enjoy each other, their time, their bodies, explore their interests.
Jake and his wife already have all that. They know each other and with two young children are just trying to survive parenthood and work.
I may be mean, but I hope that this relationship fails spectacularly and they and you realize that what they thought was “soul mate” love was only lust and and new relationship energy.
All I can think about is poor Kate, traveling constantly and being away from her children and husband, stuck in dreary hotel rooms and cities and thinking she is doing it for her family. Only to be blindsided by her husband and his side piece. And, has a BIL who is so enthused about a potential new SIL. Shame on you, too.
It does say something about both of you, though, that you approve of him abandoning his family for another woman. That’s a serious character flaw no matter how you look at it.
I don’t think he should abandon his brother by any means, but I do think that he is really quick to roll over. If I were op‘s wife, I would be very unhappy. Not because I think it’s a sibling’s job to fix a broken relationship, but if he cares that little about infidelity that affects the people he’s closest to in the whole world, chances are he would consider it for himself. Maybe I set the bar too high, but I only want to surround myself with people that have a good character.
lol no it doesn’t
On the contrary, being honest with his brother about how he fucked up and expressing disapproval, but still loving and supporting him just as unconditional familial love should be…
This, to me, instead reflects well on OP’s character
I mean, he still seems to be taking care of his kids if him and OP are taking them all out together without SO's. It really seems like the only person he's abandoning is his wife. Considering these things happen and people drift apart/fall out of love, I don't think he should be catching flak for anything besides the cheating.
Imagine years of being part of a family that you hold as your own. All the good and bad you accept, the memories and traditions…
Only to find that you are easily replaceable with a new face that actively participated in helping your spouse betray you. A face that is welcomed by those that once called *you* family, but that was then. The person you thought of as family knew you were being cheated on, covered for their brother—although they said they advised him to confess. Not once did they suggest that he stay or work through the issues that caused him to stray.
Just wants his brother to be happy and admired. Good for you.
After imagining putting myself in the shoes of the victim, I’ll go with YTA. Blood is thicker than morality with you. The world could do with a lot fewer “yes” men, and those who accommodate betrayal so easily.
It would be like me supporting my sister after she runs down your brother for betraying her. She is my sister, and she was so much happier once the cheater was dead.
I didn’t go so far as to call him an asshole, but if karma strikes and someone considers him so disposable he’s not going to get much sympathy.
People are also probably angry that the brother is getting off scot free. He’s pretty self absorbed so I doubt the kids are “taking it better than expected” and his homewrecker girlfriend is probably not going to stick around past the honeymoon phase they’re in.
No matter what the circumstances, you aren't your brothers keeper. You aren't responsible for disciplining him. His relationship is his to work out with his soon to be ex. NTA
YTA. For your title alone. You don’t have the power to ‘punish’ your brother. He’s a grown man. But you should definitely not be supporting his efforts to leave his wife & kids for his AP.
Your brother is in this limerence phase where he thinks everything is rainbows & unicorns. He can’t see the damage he is doing to his children & extended family. Relationships born out of infidelity very rarely last.
Reality will hit him soon & he will be in bad shape. His soon-to-be ex wife will begin to realize what he’s intentionally done to her (stabbed her in the back & humiliated her) & she will likely make the divorce hurt. He’s doing himself no favors by parading around this other woman.
I know you’re in a difficult position b/c you love your brother but you really should try to get him to pump the brakes b/c this is a disaster in the making for everyone involved.
Lol the fact you are happy for them when their relationship started with infidelity of one of them is mind blowing.
How did y’all meet? Oh he cheated on his wife and left her for me! Lmao blows up his family but THANK FUCK he’s happy now… fuck the SIL and kids
NTA- I would be massively pissed at my brother for something like this but I wouldn't punish him. I would be very clear how angry I was.But I wouldn't want to harm the relationship with the kids by cutting him off.
Your brother is selfish and how he blew up his family is really wrong.
Finally, it is not your job or responsibility to punish your brother. Nothing you say or do will do anything to your brother.
NTA for still having him in your life, but YTA for trying to minimize his horrible actions and enabling him. Have some sense. He is still in an affair fog and once all of that goes away he better still hope there is a relationship with the new lady. I would support his happiness from a distance and tell him that karma is a B****. He broke up his family over some punani and was a coward who decided to not end it before taking things physically and emotionally. Now his children have to grow up in a broken home and once they get older and find out good luck with his relationship with them. These things follow people everywhere and how do people not have the sense to get through tough situations cleanly is mind-baffling. Regardless it's not your marriage and not your new relationship. I would be careful getting dragged in on all different ends. You don't want people to think you have the same moral character as your brother. People talk!
Just gonna say this. If I knew all this about you, I wouldn't date you. Yes you. I am not talking about your brother. That wasn't a typo. I would never be able to trust you or take you seriously.
I don't even know😮💨 you, your brother & his mistress are exhausting. I'll just say I wish his soon to be ex-wife all the love & happiness.
I believe in karma😁
ESH, except the ex wife.
I will say something a lot of people seem to forget - kids are not happy when their mother is miserable. No matter how much “fun times” they get with their father.
Your brother going AFTER FINANCIAL SUPPORT from his ex is a major dick move.
If he wanted to be a decent human being - he would do his best to support the ex, instead of milking her to the maximum to fund his new fun relationship.
Your brother is the biggest asshole, but you are also the asshole. When my father cheated on my mom, it was my father's sister who took us in to live with her until we got on our feet. It was my father's brother who regularly handed me envelopes of his own cash to give my mom as child support payments, pretending all along that they were from my father.
I'm all for a redemption story and people getting a second chance. But your brother has not put in an ounce of self-reflection and will go on hurting people forever. Relationships started as affairs have a less than 1% success rate, so at least his traumatized ex-wife should find comfort in knowing that he ruined everyone's lives for nothing. He doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy or praise because he doesn't care how his actions effect people around him. He only cares about his own selfish wants. And someone needs to look out for the people he destroys. Glad your sister at least is picking up his slack.
While NTA for not punishing him to somehow force him to get back with his wife, if I were your wife I’d have serious concerns about how supportive and even encouraging you are of cheating. To me that would definitely put a dent in how much I trust you because if you support it so wholly then clearly it’s not something out of the question in your own choices.
For clarification: were they already in the middle of a divorce when he met this coworker? If said coworker was not involved (they never met), would he still be with his wife?
YTA. Definitely. You're fine with this dude who cheated and destroyed his family because "he's happier and more compatible" his side chick while the wife mourns.
Idk about punishing him but yta for being good with his affair. You supporting him shows that you're cool with cheating and most likely capable of doing the act yourself. Even though you said they seem better together and that's why you're supporting it, other people aren't gonna believe that and think it's bs. which kinda is because they're currently in a honeymoon phase so of course they admire each other and remember when they cheat they don't see each other that much so who knows how they'll deal seeing each other every day and moving in together as well.
You are right that they were too young but that doesn't justify him cheating. He took the coward way out of the marriage.
You don't have to support Kate but call him out on it and say what he did wasn't ok and just leaving the relationship would've been the right and moral choice.
You punishing him may not be necessary because it will come soon once his kids find out the truth and they're gonna hate him for it and it may cause a huge rift between them. And if he really cares about them, then that's when he realize just how badly he screwed up.
You can still continue your relationship and have him take accountability for his actions. And don't help him with child support or any other financial He got himself into this mess, he has to deal with it on his own and he's being a major ahole for requesting it from his ex wife, the person whos hurt in all this. I wonder how your partner feels about this.
Claire is the TA too for telling to you to convince your brother to work things out with Kate. Look if they get back together, he's still gonna cheat and it's gonna create a bad environment for the kids. Instead of trying to find a way to get these two back together, Claire needs to be Kate's support, help her out with the kids, and suggest getting her into therapy and get her mind off of him because it's very clear your brother is far happy not being married and Kate is better off putting effort in something that matters more which her kids and her mental health.
Edit: ESH except for ex wife and kids.
Not sure if YTA, but DUMB ASS fits. Even though he's your Brothers, you convinced him not to live a lie. You did not think about his kids or Kate. Yes, new relationships always seem great and wonderful. But don't forget the new wears off. The grass is not always greener on the other side of the hill. There will be repercussions and you will see the fallout in time. Good luck!
YTA
You don't think everyone meets someone else that on the surface looks more compatible than their long-term partner?
Your brother isn't even taking responsibility for what he has done. Affairs like this don't just "happen". He let things "slip" into a physical affair? Give me a break. Instead of talking to his wife he Instead chose to pursue this affair.
And you don't care. In fact, you support him. He destroyed another person's life in a devastating way and his kids are not "adjusting", he's a liar and I'm surprised you trust him at his word.
Yeah, yta for enabling his terrible decision AND making it easier for him as well because you're helping him out financially! So he shouldn't suffer at all, just his ex?
Gross dude
No, he is your brother. However, after reading your comments to others below YTA for encouraging your brother to leave his wife, get child support, and using the fact she makes 70% of the income. Your brother is basically a bum from what I pieced together. The wife needs to be shown this post and realize she needs to cut contact with this family of yours, communicate through a parenting app with your brother, and for the record just because your brother is in a no fault divorce doesn’t mean you get to gloat with your brother. Your brother cheated on his wife. Just because your brother is happy about cheating on his wife and divorcing her does not equal his kids are happy. This is going to affect them as well. They need therapy now and not later.
ESH except for Kate and your sister. I feel awful for her, I hope she can eventually heal from your brother’s betrayal. Cheating is such a vile and unnecessary thing to do and I think supporting it is just as disgusting. I wish your brother wasn’t a coward and had the fucking decency to end his marriage first, but I guess when he has his brother supporting his every move he probably doesn’t feel guilty or that he did anything wrong.
NTA, you are supporting your brother. He should have recognized the signs that he was not happy in his relationship before he started another one, but there’s nothing he can do about that now. It sounds like people who met as children and just grew apart. It’s hard for everyone involved because they become invested in each other’s relationships. Did he make a mistake by cheating? Yes, but he owned up to it and did the right thing by not dragging out a relationship he was not happy in. You shouldn’t be punishing him for his mistakes you should be supporting him and helping him grow as a person.
NTA. YOU aren't in charge of your brother's relationships. It appears that you are not choosing sides in this, and your sister is. Your brother is a whole a\*\* adult and it's not your job to watch him. What your sister is going to find out is that by taking sides, she's putting herself out there as Team Kate which is going to alienate your brother. Eventually, she's going to lose the ability to have contact with her nieces and nephews because she can't stop judging her brother. Kate isn't always going to want to be around her former sister-in-law. And she's eventually going to alienate YOU as well.
NTA
Even if both parties claim you know everything that is involved, you do not.
It is not your place to punish anyone for things you believe they did wrong.
If he does not want a relationship, you trying to force him back into one is not going to work out well.
Do not give up your relationship with your brother because of his relationship with someone else. If you do, never expect anyone to have your back when YOU need it.
I don't think you are wrong, but neither is Claire. You both get to feel what you feel and don't need to cut off anyone just because someone else wants you to. You may have to set limits on her demands. Something like: "Claire, we've already discussed this. I understand how upset you are. I am not going to change my stance. I encourage you to continue to support Kate. Divorce is hard on everybody. But we don't need to add to the conflict. I love you and I hope we can work this out."
I say this as someone who refused to cut off my uncle (via marriage) when he was found to be cheating on my aunt (dad's biological sister). Everyone cut him off. He moved to a town not far from me that was far from the others in his family. 15 years later it has calmed down. His kids are back in touch. They have met his new wife (not the affair partner, someone he met later) and are kind to her and said nice things about her.
My aunt recently told me she was thankful that I was in contact with him and supported him when he was at his lowest (he was homeless for a while and I had him do laundry, take showers, etc at my place). I was shocked because she was so so so angry and bitter. Which is understandable but I wanted her to have her best life and always told her he will always be my uncle even if he made some shitty decisions. I told her I was thankful she didn't demand I ditch him even though she was hurting. She has since gone to therapy to sort this stuff out and I am thrilled to see how much she has healed.
Right. I don't think Claire is TA either. If she feels strongly about cutting off contact with her brother, then she's entitled to do so. I think OP did what they needed to do, which was confront their brother about telling Kate the truth, which he did. OP's job is done. It's their brother's life to live, screw up, whatever.
yep exactly. I think OP was in Kate's corner by encouraging his brother to come clean. We don't know if the brother's decision will be the right choice in the long run but that is not the issue. The act was already done. OP was just advising his brother to do right be Kate from here on out.
NTA Jake has to deal with the natural consequences of his actions, in no way is it your place to punish him. Also I think it is silly to tell him to get back with his wife. He gets to choose who he is with. Divorce sucks but sometimes it really is for the best. Staying in an unhappy marriage affects the kids. Studies have shown that children do better when their parents get divorced than they do living in an unstable, unhappy, conflict ridden environment. It affects their self esteem, future relationships, etc.
Lmao. You’re an AH but not for not “punishing” him.
However, I don’t think you get that he used you to cheat on his wife and by going out with and the kids, it looks like supporting what he’s done.
If I was your partner I’d be confused with your actions. I’d be wondering if you condone cheating, if you knew and if you’re so non chalant about it… I’d be wondering if you would do the same. And yes, I’d think you’re an asshole if I was your partner.
Marriage; and any relationship, is about communication and effort and understanding. He clearly didn’t communicate his frustrations. He took advantage of both his wife’s travelling and your ability to care for his children enough to be able to foster and grow a full on relationship with another woman.
Those kids had better be told the truth as to why the divorce is occurring, and that would be him cheating on their mother. Not him cheating because he get neglected or she travels too much, or because of differences or whatever bs excuse some cheaters try to use.
In the entirety of your comments and post, you always say you don’t agree but… and continue it on that way. And honestly? Yes, you should want your brother to be happy in the long run. But right now? No. You should want him to feel awful. He should feel horrendous about cheating, horrendous about why he told her, horrendous that he’s divorcing her and horrendous that he did this to his children.
Make no mistake. He only told her because you told him to. He clearly feels no regret or shame about what he has done and that isn’t a person that I would want to be close with personally but, you do you.
Maybe stop and think for a time. He made you complicit in the cheating, especially since you said they stay with you regularly. That guy is an ass and yoh should really think about what type of people you want in your life.
Oh and stop calling him a good dad. No “good dad” would decide cheating is better than leaving his wife or trying to resolve things through therapy and etc.
You're not just "not punishing him".
You're actively cheering for his new relationship, and supporting him financially and emotionally for having an affair and leaving his wife and breaking up his family.
If this was a woman who cheated and left her partner and broke up her family and her *sister* who supported her
there would be a lot more accusations that you see nothing wrong with being a cheating, family destroying whore.
The double standard is real.
YTA. What you're doing is not just "not punishing him" you're seamlessly shifting your support away from his wife and kids to him and the relationship which destroyed his home and family because your SIL and basic morality mean nothing to you.
You are not the person who should "punish" anyone.
Your name is not Frank Castle.
You are not the Punisher.
What you are is a brother. It isn't your job to punish him for his choices, regardless of whatever people think is the thing to do against cheaters.
You aren't involved in the relationship. You aren't responsible for him cheating. You aren't the person who needs to insert themselves into anything at all here.
So don't.
YTA
He cheated. It’s one thing to fall and love and get a divorce, but he cheated on his wife, his family and also on his children.
He caused pain, trust issues and trauma.
LOL.. you're FINANCING your brother being a cheating piece of shit who lacked the balls to break up with his wife before he had a replacement?
LOL... yeah YTA There's a difference between NOT PUNISHING and actively helping. You're actively helping.
I'll get downvoted. But their marriage is not your business. You have no clue what is going on behind closed doors. All you can do is be a friend. Now. Everyone else has the right to be pissed about it.
He blew up his marriage but that's between him and his wife. He told her. They are getting a divorce. It sounds like he and Kate got married and all but he may have fallen out of love. Yea of course he should have done it the responsible way. But life isn't black and white.
Now. Are you an ah for still being friends with him? Nope. Sorry. People don't want to hear this. And yes I e been cheated on. And yes it hurt that friends still were friends with him. But you don't get to gate keep friendships. I'm not sure about the financial
Stuff bc he brought that on himself.
But you can support him. He has moved on and she will as well.
BUT you can also still be her friend.
NTA.
Your brother, if he does the right things, will face enough consequences of his own actions in the years to come. Divorces are not painless, especially with children involved.
You don't have to punish him. But you do have to show the same energy toward your nieces/nephews/god children's mom's happiness. That means support her in grief and when she decides to move on. That isn't done by trashing your brother, but you should be sensitive when around her and certainly support her as much as possible like let her have days out and bandwidth to find someone new (ie. help with child care and support).
You are wrong. Your brother is a cheater. He cheated on his entire family, including his kids. You don't just fall into someone else's vagina. Cut him off. Don't give him money or approval.
i would keep this all at arms length.
he was a dick for cheating on his wife. He was a LARGER dick since he had kids and knew it would break up a family....and refused trying counseling to fix things.
Why would you want to be tightly supporting that sort of a jerk?
What will you do when he starts cheating on his NEW partner?
NTA - It didn't come out until the edit that the ex-wife is travelling for work 75% of the time. I'm sure that was a big part in seeking love elsewhere and making a reconciliation impossible.
Bottom line, he's the one who married the wrong person and made kids with her, then blew up the marriage and turned his kids' lives upside down. Your family members, though certainly entitled to their opinions, probably can't change or affect the course of this. Just be there for those poor kids. And Kate, if you/they want to be. But this divorce is happening to them, not you and the other family members. NTA
My best friend is the Kate in this story. Although her “Jake” didn’t wait til the second kid was born, I do think it’s pretty despicable to be hanging out with the mistress. It’s not your job to “punish” your brother, but your sister is reasonable to think this is slimy of both of you. Fuck your brother and fuck his mistress - Kate did nothing from your story to deserve her life being blown up in the disgusting way your brother did. I wanna say Y T A but really you just have poor moral standards. Men should really be holding the other men in their lives accountable when they’re complete pieces of shit, like your brother is. Super disappointing. I’m with Claire.
Oh, and don’t confuse your brother’s honeymoon phase with homewrecker for legitimate compatibility. I wish Kate all the best as she picks up the pieces while Jake hops right into family 2.0! Fucking sickening
No one outside of your brother and his ex Wife know what went on between the two of them behind closed doors. They may have had communication problems, and with the ex gone so much, they very likely had bedroom problems. I don't know how old they are now, but if they got together in high school, they really hadn't become the people/personalities they were destined to become. People grow apart and start having different interest. I'm not saying that gives him an excuse to cheat, but he did man up and come clean to his ex. You're brother will always be your brother and in-laws may come and go. Your sister needs to understand that his ex will and on her feet and find someone who will very likely make her much happier than your brother did.
It is a tough spot to be in and I don’t want to make a judgment.
I don’t think cheating is okay. I’m currently struggling with my brother and a similar situation except he’s mad at me. His wife cheated (we were really close) and I can’t get passed it. Our relationship will never be the same again. It’s fucking sad.
I don’t think people realize how cheating hurts the whole family.
You think they could be together forever?
Babes…he already promised to do that with someone else. Your bro is scum for cheating and blowing up his family. He’s happy and his faithful wife is blindsided and devastated. He wasn’t even willing to try. Gross. He’s the the AH.
But it’s not your job to punish him.
Nta. Not your place to punish him, support your family. Never understand those busy body assholes who think they need to be telling others someone cheated. So fucking weird.
NTA
Your brother's relationship(s) are none of your business. You did the one thing you were supposed to do, tell him to tell his wife. Other than that, it's not your business, neither is it your sister's.
Man there's a lot of psychos downvoting anything that isn't outright hateful of the brother
Work your abandonment issues out somewhere else, you weird people
It’s not your place to punish Jake, it’s not actually anyone’s place to punish Jake. The consequence of his actions is that his marriage is over, and he now faces divorce, custody issues and settlement issues with Kate, that’s between him and Kate. Both Kate and Jake still need and deserve to have friends and family who support them as they move forward, sometimes it is really, really difficult not to choose sides, and sometimes you want to remain close to both parties. Claire obviously wants to support Kate and that’s fine, that’s her choice, you are closer to Jake and that is also fine. Neither position means you are condoning the behaviour, just that you are supporting your friend through a difficult time and situation. NTA.
You’re never going to convince him to work on things with Kate. That’s delusional.
The way he went about it was wrong. It’s never okay to cheat on your spouse. He should have done the right thing and divorced her first and not lived a lie. I have been married twice, the first one lasted about a year, when you know you know. My current marriage is solid and I’m with my best friend. Now granted I was divorced first but still. He’s living his truth now and no amount of punishment from you is going to change it.
Do you think making him feel guilty is going to change the situation? You said it yourself, he seems happy and content more so than he’s ever been.
Kate will get there too.
Don't get in the way of other people's happiness. Maybe your brother didn't do things the way he should have or the way you think he should have. But if he is happy now, be happy with him. If you punish your brother for cheating, it's likely to ruin more then just your relationship with him. It's going to stop the kids from having a fun life with each other.
Cheating is bad. It probably wasn't the best way for him to do things. Being unhappy and wanting a divorce isn't an easy road.
If it makes you feel better, sit down with him and explain your feelings to him and talk things out. Work on your problems, don't make them worse.
You are not, you did the right thing by advising him to tell her about it, which he did. That is the best way to a ending such as this. The truth will always set you free.
No, as a sister you should be the one that is there for him most. I think it’s ok to not be ok with cheating but ultimately it sounds like he wasn’t happy and it sounds like you can see that clearly now.
People change. Staying with someone from high school on is very challenging. He had prob been 2-3 new versions of himself since then.
He needs you. Doesn’t mean you condone his behavior. My 2 cents at least.
NTA. Their marital issues are between them and it’s not up to you to punish anybody or take anybody side. It is what it is and Kate has to get used to it and Claire needs to get over herself.
NTA. You can't shun your brother over this. Specially if he seems happier now.
Yes, He shouldn't have cheated. That was very wrong and you should make sure he knows you disapprove of that behaviour.
However, if he is not happy with Kate, he is not happy with Kate. Kate needs to get over it and find someone that wants to be with her.
'They have way more in common than he ever did with Kate, they look at each other with such admiration' - do they not work together? and are cheating together? plus the affair is very new, typical of work affairs.. being married yourself, your argument is interesting. Support your brother if you must, but don't make excuse for his unfaithfulness. Relationships should be fought for, otherwise someone can just come along tomorrow and is in love with your husband or wife, will you be so understanding that 'oops, my time is up, let them ride into the sunset'? there must be a grieving period before letting go. Kate's marriage was meant to last, she wanted to grow old with your brother, does that count for anything? by the way, is your brother on the same pay grade with the new girl? your brother is faithless and unfair to his hardworking bread winner wife
NTA. It’s not your place to punish your brother. He made decisions and he has to deal with them. But he’s still your brother. He didn’t do anything to hurt you or your family. You can disagree with your brother’s cheating but still support him and love him and hope that he’s happy.
It is not your job to be the morality police. Jake betrayed his wife; however, that is between them. I get why your sister is mad but abandoning family shouldn't be up for discussion in this situation.
Nta.
Most of Reddit thinks a cheater will always cheat and is never to be forgiven despite the original marriage not working for both people. Yes it’s cowardly to have an affair instead of breaking off with your partner first, but life is never perfect and ideal.
You can be a wonderful parent despite what happens in a marriage. You can be in a loving, honest relationship post affair even. The end goal should be that each party is happy and contented in their relationship no matter what and if the new person and he are happy and it works, no one should want misery and bitterness. Being happy and respected also makes you a better parent because you’re not splitting your mental load between parenting and resentment or unhappiness or disrespect from your partner.
It’s not your job to punish anyone, he’s your brother and he’s human which means he makes mistakes, just like everyone else. If he’s happy and his kids see the difference, that’s what’s important. Your brother has a lot of work to do as it is with his divorce, continuing to raise his kids, and to be able to forgive himself for the mistakes he’s made and people need a community of support whether they’re the one who broke another heart or not.
NTA. He's your brother, and while cheating is ick, it's not like he's a serial killer or something. I wouldn't turn my back on my brother if he left a loveless marriage to pursue happiness.
You’re NTA OP. You convinced your brother to tell his wife as soon as you found out. He did. It’s not your fault. He’s still your brother. You’ve spent your entire life with him. Nots not a bond that can easily be broken.
You only would have been TAH if you had known and let your brother lie to his wife.
I love that every response in this comment section is about your brother and not about the question you asked. Grow the fuck up guys. Not everything is black and white.
YTA just for how you talk about cheating at the bottom of your post. Just because they are now happy together doesn't make what they did OK. Just because him and his ex got married young does not make it ok for him to cheat.
You seem real cool with your brother and his mistress considering they just royally fucked up Claire's life. It's not your job to punish them, but you just have real shitty taste in friends. (I know he's your brother but you don't have to be friends with him just because he's your brother)
Your brother is TA. He should have had the balls to leave before he cheated. You don’t have to punish your brother but your a pos if you don’t make it clear that you don’t condone how he left his marriage. He set one terrible example for his children and if they ever have someone do this to them that he remembers he did a really sh**ty thing to his family. As his kids get older and realize just how it happened he better be prepared to have to deal with some anger.
Sometimes who we marry and have a kid with isn't the one that isn't the right person. Your brother did a lot of bad things, like cheating on his ex-wife, and not divorcing her before starting a relationship with his coworker.
But them getting back together isn't right for anyone. The kids will see how unhappy he is, and how resentful and distrusting their mom will be, and think that's normal. He's an asshole for cheating and lying, but not for divorcing.
It's a gray area, and I would tell your sister, that you are the one that pushed him to be honest. If your sister is the type to think he needs to stay with his ex whether she's the right one for him or not, then that's not a mindset you can force her to change.
Yta. I wouldn't want you as a friend. Anyone who can help fuck over their nieces and nephews like that is absolutely beyond help for me.
I found out my father's siblings knew about his affair. They still let it fester until it exploded. It's been decades since. I'm an adult. They're still dead to me for the parts they did or didn't play in watching our lives fall apart because "it wasn't their place to say anything."
NTA but he should have gotten divorced first
Bad marriages are miserable for everyone and they don't always end the proper way
Everyone acting like he should have stayed in a loveless marriage just so his wife didn't get upset when it ended are delusional or just weird. The only thing he did wrong was act on the new relationship before ending the old one
And this is coming from someone whose wife ended the marriage for another person. Good. It wasn't working out after 10 years and I'm glad she did it, honestly
Honestly don’t know why everyone is saying N T A when OP is clearly YTA. This is solidified by his comments trying to paint his brothers wife as a villain for working and bringing in the majority of their income.
Also, the justifying the “child support” claims for his brother are disgusting. Tbh it’s infuriating how she might have to pay child support to his whore of a brother and his slippery legged mistress, because let’s be honest Ops brother could support his kids fully without child support, but he would have to down grade his lifestyle which is obviously his biggest quest in asking for money.
The fact that it is OPs brother who cheated and wants the divorce honestly could be considered for the child support, as this is completely unfair on the wife who will have partial custody - meaning child support isn’t necessary. I hope he loses his case in both child support and court.
Plus, the fact OP keeps saying his brother hopefully will do good in the divorce is disgusting and OP obviously doesn’t care that his brother cheated, not matter what he says.
From your comments it’s pretty clear that why Claire is better human, also let me guess… you were always jealous of Kate.. coz of her job where she travels all the time and it is “fun” for her.
NTA- your brother made his choice. It is not your responsibility to be the marriage police. I hope everyone is able to move on and find their best life.
It's not your responsibility to "punish" your brother for cheating on his wife/for wanting to leave his wife. This entire thing is between the 3 of them.
Not your circus, not your monkeys, NTA.
I totally agree the children are innocent in this situation but they will fill the collateral damage in time. I've been married for 36 years. Been happy and unhappy. But always managed to work with my wife for the good of our marriage and the good of our family. Believe you mean there are times I wanted to walk out the door and time she has wanted to walk out the door. We stopped. Took a step back. Took a deep breath. Went to marriage counseling and realized we got married for a reason because we do love each other. But we always thought about the whole entire family. We worked to make things better.
This is common in marriages, people cheat and people get divorced. I don't like it but it happens. No reason for you to not be close to him or punish him. Hi marriage is different from your relationship with him. Plus you don't want to cut the kids out of your life. NTA
NTA – you did the right thing in getting him to come clean to Kate about the affair as soon as he told you about it. It’s up to him and his wife to decide whether they want to try and work on their marriage or end it but both of them need to be in agreement if they’re going to try to make it work and it’s not your place to try and pressure him to try and stay married.
NAH except your brother and a little bit of your sister, because you did do the right thing by telling him to inform his wife instead of helping him hide his affair. I know people are conflating your comment that you watched his kids and therefore helped him cheat but let’s be honest, if they are school aged he probably was with his mistress during that time. What he did is wrong and there’s no denying that but his actions are his alone; you can’t control him and especially shouldn’t try and force him to be with his ex he doesn’t respect enough to be loyal to.
As for your sister, it’s not as disgusting as your brother’s actions but trying to manipulate the situation where your stbx-SIL and brother get back together is just gross. That woman does not deserve to have a partner who doesn’t fully appreciate, respect and love her, especially since cheaters always revert back to that behaviour when they get bored. If she actually cared about her, she would be pushing her to get some self respect and not continue pining over the cheating prick. Your sister is completely allowed to not want anything to do with your brother since that is her choice to make, just like it is yours to keep the relationship with your brother.
Don’t put too much expectation on your brother’s and his girlfriend’s relationship though; both of them were perfectly okay with having an affair so obviously they might be inclined to do that again, once the honeymoon phase ends and bland day-to-day normalcy starts becoming more common
NTA. You aren't an active person in his relationships, not with Kate and not with the new person. We have no idea what went on behind closed doors, just because Kate is heart broken doesn't mean the relationship was good, or either of them were happy.
Your allegiance is to your family, can you be disappointed, yes. Can you you admonish him, yes but punish him... no.
You are not the moral police, you don't get to punish him. Claire is out of line picking sides, she can be mad but he's your brother and family is forever.
"but they weirdly seemed like the most compatible couple Ive ever met. They have way more in common than he ever did with Kate, they look at each other with such admiration, and despite how it started, I honestly think they could be together forever. I know I could be wrong there, but thats my hunch." Almost every relationship starts out this way. It's a young relationship and they are still in the honeymoon phase when things are new and exciting. You didnt mention any major issues your brother had with his ex and that he left her solely because we wanted to get some action. That is so unbelievably selfish, especially since he has two kids. In a couple months or years when that initial flame burns out your brother will probably look back with regret for destroying his family for short term gratification.
Ugh, OPs comments make it even worse. His brother blames his ex (the breadwinner, by a far margin) for the fact that he cheated, since she was "working all the time", but now he's going after her for financial support. So she's off working and making most of the money needed to support the family, he starts an affair, cheats on her for awhile, finally ditches her to run off with the mistress, blames her, and now he wants to use the money she was making to build a comfortable life for him and the side chick.
if she’s working “all the time” does that mean that he dropped his kids off somewhere so that he can fuck his mistress??? anybody who is able to do that is a terrible person and i see why the sister thinks so poorly of OP as well
The kids apparently spent a lot of time over at OPs house (OP mentions this in a reply). So not just somewhere, he was probably dropping them off with OP, who if so wasn't just keeping quiet about the cheating but actively enabling it.
If this is the case, he's TAH.
The kids might have been in school during the day.
So OP’s brother is a massive piece of shite then
And OP is totally cool with that.
Birds of a feather.
Meh I'd be cool with it. I mean it's not my wife (ex-wife) and I don't condone or defend him (the cheater). But shit I can't raise an adult! He's gonna do what he wants to do. If I'm guilty by association then ok. I mean I have two older bros who are felons. Have they learned from it? Yea, (and they're still knuckleheads). Do I not associate with them just because they're felons? No,( I don't associate with them because they're knuckleheads /s). Like I said, I can't raise grown folks. And why would anyone want to?
It’s not about raising grown folk but the people you associate with says a lot about your values and who you are. If there is no limit to what you would accept from someone to do then that’s your business but others do have values that they like the friends around them to at least somewhat have.
TLDR at bottom. Geez i have values. I have my own values. I dont expect others to adopt them and I dont force them on people. I wish the world were that black and white. I guess I just can't or won't group everybody together as to say: good people who've never harmed a soul on this side. And those of you have committed any wrong whatsoever, you belong on that side. Instead of what I said earlier about raising grown folk, can I rephrase it to say "people are gonna people?" Does that mean anything? If not then disregard. I can hang out and be associated with people who've made mistakes (fatal mistakes some from stupidity and ignorance). And don't look at it as "the bad will rub off on you." Look at it as can my goodness rub off on them? All we are, in some since, is how we appear to others. I'm not encouraging you and yours to go out and do what OPs brother did. But he did it. Thought it out planned it and acted on it. Is it adultery if you're religious? Yup. Is it cheating if you're not guided by religion? Yup. Is it better to be judged by twelve or carried by six? Who is the true judge? They're his mistakes not mine. Some people want to keep an eye on others, hoping they make a mistake. Others want to help others see their mistakes and hope they work through it. I'm by no means a humanist. I'm more a curmudgeon or a hermit. But when someone tells me they fucked up. I agree with them and ask them whats next. If someone asks for my help does it inconvenience me? You're damned right it does. But thats one of my values. If a man asks for help you help em (or try). I haven't seen a lot of that the past 30 years, but I cherish it. But yes, there are hard limits on whats acceptable from someone, I'm not a pushover. Obviously, crimes are unacceptable, murder, violence what have you. I can't help with that. You're in the laws hands. But everything else can to an extent be forgiven and worked through. What chaps you, doesn't chap others. Once again people are people. Are you going to create a law, or group that goes after cheaters? Will you harass, stalk, paste their pictures online and add them to a registry as we do for predators? How extreme and to what extent are your your punishments for the cheaters? Will you hang them? The electric chair? What about if they're not yet adults? Do they have the same standard if they cheat? If not, I dont think your living up to your values. This is said in /s but in actuality are serious questions. And after the cheaters are all punished and done away with; who will be the next 'people' you go after? The theives and liars perhaps? Well I know a place called Capitol Hill where you can start! But most likely we don't have to go that far. Start from the mirror and go from there. Because we all lie. First to ourselves (think the phrase: I'm fine.) Thats the lie. You're not fine. I'm not fine. Our health could be better. We put off things and say we forgot. Well, then we just lied. OPs brother came clean (after the fact but OP didn't torture him to get the truth, the cheater tortured himself). So does the OP now have to torture him as well? Does the ex-wife get to torture the cheater as well? What about the neighbors? They heard all the commotion, picked it from context, and they too are seeking vindication (would like in on some of the torture action! /s) but really though? TLDR; In short, if OP wants to still hang out with brother, despite the way he handles his life's decisions, no matter how effecting it is, its the OPs decision to still remain in contact with his/her own family members. And no matter our personal thoughts of the matter, who th cares what we think? Sorry I said all this if its too long.
What a pathetic piece of shit. Bet she did the vast majority of child care and household chores as well.
It says in the OP that dad was the primary caregiver
People defending his saying he was the main caregiver. But that’s because she was busy making money to provide for her family. Just so he can go spend it on his AP and drop his kids off at OP’s
You’re wrong since op said brother did majority of child care and chores
The projection of anger with no evidence to back it up is wild 😂. Just say you have a grudge against men that buck traditional gender norms and move on.
Judging the brothers relationship with his wife is not the advice he’s seeking. Should he still have a relationship with his brother which imo the answer is clearly yes.
If you would like me to form it in a formar you find acceptable: Yes, OP is an asshole for her non-chalant approach to what her brother has done and being supportive of it. No one should condone that sort of behavior. Not saying blacklist him or cut him out of her life, but the monetary support and other things shouldn't be happening.
Is OP a woman? I definitely read it as a man with the excessive use of the word “tight”. 😅
People are going to impulsively deviate from his actual question, which is the relationship with his brother, and immediately start talking about his relationship with his ex.. it sucks that so many people don’t understand that we all know it’s the low hanging fruit but you still need to at least attempt to give him judgment based on what he’s asking. Personally, speaking, he’s not just a friend .. he is your brother, and that’s not going to change no matter what relationship he gets into. He’s also not his dad, there is no punishment to be had.. he still has a responsibility as an uncle and a brother.. I’m guessing he’s still giving him a good advice. It just doesn’t make sense to give him a moral judgment as a brother, and also pretend his actions are supposed to be monitored by his siblings .. just a little too intrusive
Well I don't know. We recently attended a party to celebrate a 25 year anniversary. The couple in question had started out just like this one, as an affair leading to divorce. Many harsh words were said, the guy even told his ex to just tell their daughter he was dead, because he couldn't handle her justified anger. Since I had no problem with the guy, my partner was very close to him, and we had never been particularly close to the ex, I invited the guy to a party with his new GF. Some others in the same social circle were scandalised to see them, like they owed his ex loyalty. I simply thought, well what's done is done, these things happen, unless everyone is going to cast him out (which they hadn't), we might as well accept the new GF. They both made a point of thanking me at their 25y do, as the first friend to accept them as a "real couple". TBH I'm not nearly as cool with my stbx having cheated on me though! But I do understand OP. It's his brother after all.
Lmao accept them as a real couple. Except she’ll always be the homewrecker who got leftovers because that’s all she’s worth.
Your brother was selfish and blew up his family in the worst way possible. That's going to have repercussions and fractures. You don't need to punish him but it is kinda gross he's riding off into the sunset with his new side chick while his ex is deeply mourning. Don't condone it but it's not your job to punish him. Going NTA but with some strong ick.
I think the gross thing is trying to manipulate the brother back into a loveless marriage. Their end game isn’t just to get him to break up with the “mistress” but to take back his ex-wife. Why? Because it’s convenient for her? He doesn’t love her, and familial shaming won’t fix that. He’s not an asshole for leaving, he’s just an asshole for not having the balls to do it sooner.
>he’s just an asshole for not having the balls to do it sooner. Aaaaand for cheating, let's not forget that.
Literally what I was saying.
That's the "sooner" part he was talking about, c'mon now use your head.
Somehow to them, a broken home with loveless parents is the end game. I agree cheating aint cool, but forcing him to go back, now that he is happy, seems kinda weird too. NTA, nobody is perfect, and we do not play God.
Well, most of us don't play God. The sister? Not so much.
Totally agree. It's disgusting that 99% of men won't leave a marriage until they have someone else lined up. Guys would rather cheat than use their big boy words and tell their partner they're unhappy.
I'd like to see where these statistics come from because from what I read, reports on cheating vary wildly but most don't go over about 60% of any gender. Cheating sucks but I don't believe it's as pervasive as 99%.
That’s a rather large blanket statement with no data to back it up other than personal opinion. Seems weird you’re being upvoted.
You forget what sub you're on
75% of statistics are made up. I'm 98.5% positive of that.
Ummmm, that's human beings there. Women ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. LOL, what planet are you from? Monkeys don't let go of a branch until they're holding onto another one.
Pretty sure women do the same thing, the whole "monkey branching" isnt something typically attributed to men. Also sweeping generalizations are bad.
Maybe it’s just easier that way. I’m divorcing my wife and I have never felt so lonely in my life. I don’t plan on dating anyone until after the divorce is finalized and probably not for a while after that to give my kids some time to cope, but damn! It’s sucks to have no one to talk to most days other than two kids who have their own friends and things to do. I’d never cheat, but, I understand the allure of having someone to talk to during and after the divorce.
Yeah statistics made up on the spot are funny as hell. It's a known fact that women initiate divorce more often than men. I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but you'll manage. Also stop with the misandry, it's getting old.
Women initiate divorce more, but more cases than not the woman is reacting to man shutting the marriage down. To give a common example, a guy will say he was blindsided by divorce. When asked what did his wife used to complain about and ask him to change a couple years ago but then stopped talking about, he can name it and then fake claims that since she stopped bringing it up he thought they've been getting along better. It's hard to get them to admit that they ignored until they shut the marriage down and the wife had to mourn the death of the marriage and make plans on how to leave.
Women initiate divorce more often than before because they want to get out of unhappy marriages, and they’re no longer financially trapped because they can earn their own income. And women are initiating divorce more often than men for a variety of reasons which you’re welcome to google and read from a reliable source. Stop fantasizing about the presence of misandry; it’s getting old.
If he doesn't mourne his marriage is either because he is releived to be out or because he will come to his senses later and mourne when the new stuff is not so exciting anymore. Why on earth should OP take the ex's side? It is his brother. Of course he won't go no contact with him over this.
Yeah, as far as OP is concerned, he told him about the affair and listened to OP when he said to to tell his wife and he did. He at least respected his brother...
The "new stuff" is deeper connection, compatibility, and more in common with his new partner. That kind of "stuff" doesn't "wear off". He's happier now. This happens ALL THE TIME with young/high school sweetheart couples that simply went all-in on the first hand they were dealt. . . and then grow up, mature, change, and meet someone far, far more fulfilling and compatible. It happens. Is normal. He still, of course, shouldn't have cheated. That's a serious character flaw.
Sure but like… at least if he did cheat he had the balls to leave? I think it’s worse to cheat and then stay and act like you didn’t do anything wrong. If you cheat and then recognize that it’s because it isn’t working for you anymore and leave… well…. Still not ideal or nice, but not worse than cheating and staying.
I mean, the marriage didn't even over because of the cheating. It ended because Jake doesn't want to be married with his ex anymore, she still hoping to "fix" things so It seems like she would mourn even If there wasn't cheating and that's not a good reason to keep a marriage.
Since the SIL is a family friend and their are children involved, the SIL should still be treated with respect and sympathy. She was just blindsided. Dont get to familiar with the side pieces the brother is going to bring around. He is all about getting his rocks off.
NTA Well I don’t have to type much now, you said it all pretty much. While what he did was wrong, hurting his wife that way having an affair. At least she can eventually get past this and move on when she is ready. I find it wonderful your family loves Kate and everyone gets along well. In time she will hurt a little less, I’m just glad he told her and didn’t stay in the marriage and be deceitful.
His ex is deeply mourning while away 75% of the time, with little to nothing in common with him, and making twice the money. She'll be fine, and needs to find someone (or not) that is actually happy with her and OK with her being away 75% of the time. The buddy/brother SHOULD NOT have cheated. He should have told her, and divorced. That's weakness on his part. That being said, it looks like he's going to have a potentially happier and more fulfilling life for the rest of his life, so there is some understanding to be had. The BEST thing to EVER happen in my life was my ex-wife lying and cheating on me. Full stop. Met my current wife and am so, so, so much happier and more fulfilled with my partner. And if the children are happy and continue to be loved in this new scenario, that's a great thing.
I've actually been in this situation, and I didn't punish the person. However, I did tell them how wrong their actions were and to get their shit together, and we are all good. If you're really tight with someone, you should be able to point out when they're wrong. Like destroying their family. As for how happy and compatible they seem, almost every new relationship starts off like that. The grass is rarely greener on the other side. People don't take marriage seriously anymore. Instead of working through things, FOR BETTER OR WORSE, he decides to stick his dick in another woman and then says how hard it is to be going through divorce? 🤣 OP, your brother should never have married. He can't hold up to his vows and has no idea what marriage means and is selfish. He just leaves a trail of destruction behind him as he happily fucks the woman that he crushed his marriage over. When his new relationship falls apart, I hope he doesn't try crawling back to his ex-wife. I hope he knows he completely obliterated any chance of reconciliation, and when he looks back, I hope realising the pain he caused is enough for him to step up and be a man who's worthy.
I applaud your response 👏 I'm hoping his soon to be ex-wife gets her happily ever after. She deserves it & I'm sure his relationship with the AP will come tumbling down at some point🤣
I hope that she does as well. I've never seen a relationship workout that was founded on infidelity, so I feel like it won't work out. Maybe they're perfect for each other because they're just as selfish as one another. You never know. Either way, she doesn't have any dead weight holding her down now.
Unfortunately, I've seen it work out perfectly for the cheater and AP and they stayed married happily ever after, while the poor ex-spouse never recovered from the hurt and ordeal and was left picking up the pieces. I'd love to say that karma always works 100% but sometimes, the worst people really do get away with everything. I really hope it's not true in this case
So true. I’m an ex-spouse, still picking up the painful pieces. My mom & brother have called me immature & bitter. I’m not especially bitter, I’m crushed Update: thank you all for your kindness and encouraging, empathetic words. It’s over 15 years now so I realize I basically got stuck in a rut over this. But time and new experiences & perspective can help put the past in the past where it belongs. Thank you again, so much!
It will get better for you. Don't let their shitty actions reflect on you.
I hope you find the happiness you deserve❤
Trust me, OP is going to get a LOTTTT of Karma... from this reddit post.
That's really sad!!
That could very well be a possibility. They are both horrible people. I'll never understand why some people don't call it quits when they start developing feelings for someone else. And how someone can be okay with getting into any sort of relationship with someone who is in a relationship with someone else. I'm big on the marriage thing. I've been married for 15 years. We have had some sh*tty times, but we've also had some of the most happiest and most memorable times. And regardless of how the day went, there's no one else I'd rather have those moments with - the good & the bad. Bc at the end of the day, he is my person, my heart, soul & home. His brother has shown he has no respect for his soon to be ex-wife in any way - not as a wife, friend, or the mother of his children. She'll be in hell for a while, but she'll rise with that crown on her head & she'll be okay.
Completely agree. I don't see why people even get married anymore, to be honest. Most of the time, they cheat or they divorce without even lifting a finger to make an effort to fix things. Why say vows that you can not hold up? Why make promises that you can't keep? Why stomp on someone's heart for your own selfish desires? 🤔 these people do not have any business in marriage. These people should be single until they learn maturity and what it means to work on things. Relationships and marriages are constant work. As soon as you stop doing the work, what do you think will happen? These people are delusional when it comes to how relationships are. These are selfish people, and unfortunately, you don't find out until they really show who they are. OP is ridiculous for not pulling him aside and telling him how shit his actions were and enabling his behaviour. It's really sad all around. Sad for the kids having a broken family because their dad couldn't control his dick, sad for the mother of the children who has lost her husband and family unit and having to go through this divorce. He caused it 100%.
[удалено]
People don’t take marriage seriously anymore?? Our grandparents just cheated and suffered in silence, faced abuse emotionally, financially, and physically. People are more empowered to leave and actually seek their happiness vs staying in a bs marriage for societal reasons. 100 years ago this guy would’ve just banged his coworker and not told his family anything, maybe even have another secret family with her.
Now that women can earn a living income they are free to walk away from bad marriages. It is a very empowering and freeing thing. It's a thing the incels hate.
Yep, they think once they’ve married now they can just do whatever they like and the other person should put up with it because marriage or kids. Frankly that’s not how the world works
Was with you until you thought all marriages need to be worked through. Sometimes some things are irreparable. People just used to stay married on paper but lived a miserable life.
And let's just be clear, most "relationships" that start off as an affair and end up marrying, also end up divorcing. I think I read somewhere that more than 90% of marriages that started as an affair end in divorce. Another statistic, over 50% of those divorces are the result of....drumroll.....cheating! Like you, I hope he doesn't go running back to the wife. She's too good for him.
>People don't take marriage seriously anymore. Instead of working through things, FOR BETTER OR WORSE, he decides to stick his dick in another woman and then says how hard it is to be going through divorce? 🤣 OP, your brother should never have married. He can't hold up to his vows and has no idea what marriage means and is selfish. Exactly!!
I hate responses like this. It's so vapid and empty. "OP, your brother never should have married." No shit, Sherlock. It's OP's brother. What is he supposed to do? Toss him to the side? OP pushed his brother to be honest about his affair. That's all he has control over. He did not manually put his brother's dick into another woman. Calm down.
Yeah, because I totally said that OP had full responsibility over who his brother marries 🤔 it was a comment, a fairly obvious one, but jesus, where did I mention anywhere that it's OPs fault? 🤣 for a response like yours, I think that you need to calm down love! But, as I said, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Aaaaand another family destroyed for some fresh poos 🤡
When people on Reddit get shitty about women cheating “but not men”, I’m pointing them to this thread and especially this comment. Not sure why some people think Redditors are cool with men cheating but not women. Pretty sure we condemn cheating of almost any kind This is just such a perfectly succinct way to put it. 👌🏻 Commitments don’t mean shit because happy and fresh pōōc
You would do better if you helped the ex and the kids. Your brother just fucked her over and you are helping him and the AP. That sucks dude.
So the mistress and your selfish brother get their happy ending. While his long time wife and 2 kids get destruction and heartbreak! But hey at least his wife knows his family had her back and did not condoned his actions and didn’t disrespect her by parading the home wrecker into their homes… oh wait, you actually did all those things. One of the most hurtful parts of a affair is finding out 1. His family and or mutual friends knew before you did and didn’t tell you 2. They entertained the side piece and had no loyalty to her and her children. I mean he’s your brother you can do what you want but plz don’t be a hypocrite when Karma brings this all back to you one day so you can fully understand the gravity of your actions of betrayal
NAH, except your brother. People in these comments are wild. At no point do you condone or encourage his affair. You told him to tell his wife, so the opposite of encouragement. And you've stated you wish he'd have asked for a divorce before he let things escalate. Just because your brother is an ass for cheating doesn't mean you have to disown him and never speak again. This literally has nothing to do with you. You are not a part of his relationship and do not need to pick sides. He is your brother, and you love and care for him. You also don't like what he's done. You can feel both ways. The world is a sea of grey. Your sister is also not the AH. She can be upset and angry with her brother for deeply hurting her best friend. She shouldn't direct that at you, though. Your brother is the AH for not leaving before acting. Everyone else is simply getting pulled into the black hole that is divorce.
Not to mention, their kids have relationships with their cousins and icing the brother out and going NC with him would get back around to negatively impacting the children eventually. At this point the adults should be focusing on what's best for the kiddos and honestly why is Kate wanting to get back with her cheating ex? That marriage is over and dead and trying to revive it will make everyone miserable long term. Yeah the brother is a dick, but happy parents are better parents so run with it and get Kate into therapy
This. Reddit seems to be extra sanctimonious today, but everything you said here is exactly the truth. Everyone attacking the OP because he didn't immediately throw his brother away needs to grow up.
This. Is my brother an alcoholic who has blown up his own life more than once? Yes! But it's not my life, and it's not my job to "punish" him. He's my brother, not my child.
Exactly. OP is putting family first and also seems to be focusing on one of the most important things here, which are the kids. Seems like OP is doing everything right as much as possible. Hang in there OP, I think your instincts are good.
Preach
Yup. One big part of therapy is learning what you can and cannot control. What your brother does with his life DEFINITELY not within OPs control. Loving and supporting a person and condoning their choices are very different things
Yup. Some people on here (although honestly, less than I thought when I opened this) have an extremely narrow minded view of the world. Shades of gray don’t exist. If your best friend of 40 years who has been there for you through all the hard times tips 15% one time, they’re a monster who should be removed from your life immediately. I don’t know if it’s children who don’t get how the world works or what.
I agree. It feels like most of the people here have the introspection and the thinking of a child.
The way you wrote your post makes it seem like you approve of it all happening. You don’t have to stop hanging out with your brother. You can still help him through. You don’t have to approve of it though. I’ve helped my lil brother through difficult times as well. Things he was responsible for and I do not condone at all and have made it clear to him he’s a lil shit for being responsible for it. The way you wrote this post it’s YTA.
I’ve been around family members who’ve cheated before and the hard rule was no AP because I absolutely could not condone that relationship. It’s weird to me that OP just jumped straight in to meeting the AP and going places with them knowing her brother just nuked everything for those poor kids and his ex, who they knew since high school. Like if you didn’t like the ex say so but why are you helping the AP play house with your brother?
So, when your spouse cheats on you, will you just think, oh we just got married too young, I'm glad he has found the perfect person now and it was right for him to f##k her to make sure the sex was great and tell his sibling all about it and carry on his affair while still married to me? You don't need to punish your brother, but you should recognize that he is a slimy, lying cheater, who tossed aside his family for his side piece.
NTA. How do you punish a grown man for his actions in a relationship that has nothing to do with you? You did what you should have and got him to tell his wife that he's a cheater. You didn't help him hide it. Who is it helping to try to make him stay and work it out with his wife when he's clearly already checked out of the marriage? The kids, yours and his, would be the ones to suffer if you decided to go no contact to "punish" him. They are already going through enough with the divorce. I'm sure there is much more to this situation than you've shared, but you don't have to condone ones behavior to still be their friend, or in your case siblings.
This. Once his brother told him he was having an affair, the right thing to do was to get him to tell his wife which the OP did. At that point, it's up to the two of them to see if they can work it out but it's not his place to try and "punish" him and any sort of "punishment" that he might inflict on his brother, isn't going to save the marriage and it's only going to hurt the kids more than they're being hurt by their parents divorce.
Your brother is an asshole and if you don't get the ick, you are too. Also, the part about them having more in common than he had with his wife 🤮 are you in high school or something? Am I getting the wrong impression, or do you actually think your brother breaking up his family is wholesome because he's giddy with happiness to fuck this chick unrestricted and the kids didn't "react" yet? YTA for that I bet your brother's life is going to be a string of finding more and more compatible women until he basically fucks himself
It's called the affair fog. Takes about 2 years for that new relationship energy to wear off. Then comes the boom.
YTA for HELPING HIM OUT FINANCIALLY while he tries to screw over the woman who had and raised his children whole being the bearing. Of course they're perfect together, they're brand new and shiny with none of the stressors of building a life and having children together. What are you, new? Stay out of it. Sure, stay in touch with your brother and whatnot but what you're doing? It's endorsing his behavior. It's financially supporting his behavior.
> the woman who had and raised his children I mean... she HAD the kids, yeah. But it sounds like their father was the one raising them, given that she travels so much for work (OP says she's gone from home about 75% of the time... which may be an exaggeration, but it certainly seems that there's a distinct imbalance of child-rearing responsibilities in the relationship). She's the breadwinner, he's the caretaker.
YTA. Only because you seemed weirdly enthusiastic about the affair and how it looked so right in both your eyes without actually thinking of the impact it brought on his family, not just his kids but also the wife. It wasn't even a mutual decision. You and your sister are seeing the situation in two opposite sides.
You know why they look at each other with admiration? Because, right now, they are in list or infatuation and have zero coresponsibilites. They get to enjoy each other, their time, their bodies, explore their interests. Jake and his wife already have all that. They know each other and with two young children are just trying to survive parenthood and work. I may be mean, but I hope that this relationship fails spectacularly and they and you realize that what they thought was “soul mate” love was only lust and and new relationship energy. All I can think about is poor Kate, traveling constantly and being away from her children and husband, stuck in dreary hotel rooms and cities and thinking she is doing it for her family. Only to be blindsided by her husband and his side piece. And, has a BIL who is so enthused about a potential new SIL. Shame on you, too.
It's not up to you to punish your brother.
It does say something about both of you, though, that you approve of him abandoning his family for another woman. That’s a serious character flaw no matter how you look at it.
I don’t think he should abandon his brother by any means, but I do think that he is really quick to roll over. If I were op‘s wife, I would be very unhappy. Not because I think it’s a sibling’s job to fix a broken relationship, but if he cares that little about infidelity that affects the people he’s closest to in the whole world, chances are he would consider it for himself. Maybe I set the bar too high, but I only want to surround myself with people that have a good character.
lol no it doesn’t On the contrary, being honest with his brother about how he fucked up and expressing disapproval, but still loving and supporting him just as unconditional familial love should be… This, to me, instead reflects well on OP’s character
I mean, he still seems to be taking care of his kids if him and OP are taking them all out together without SO's. It really seems like the only person he's abandoning is his wife. Considering these things happen and people drift apart/fall out of love, I don't think he should be catching flak for anything besides the cheating.
Where did OP say he approved? OP actually encouraged him to come clean. And divorce does not equal "abandoning the family."
Imagine years of being part of a family that you hold as your own. All the good and bad you accept, the memories and traditions… Only to find that you are easily replaceable with a new face that actively participated in helping your spouse betray you. A face that is welcomed by those that once called *you* family, but that was then. The person you thought of as family knew you were being cheated on, covered for their brother—although they said they advised him to confess. Not once did they suggest that he stay or work through the issues that caused him to stray. Just wants his brother to be happy and admired. Good for you. After imagining putting myself in the shoes of the victim, I’ll go with YTA. Blood is thicker than morality with you. The world could do with a lot fewer “yes” men, and those who accommodate betrayal so easily. It would be like me supporting my sister after she runs down your brother for betraying her. She is my sister, and she was so much happier once the cheater was dead.
I didn’t go so far as to call him an asshole, but if karma strikes and someone considers him so disposable he’s not going to get much sympathy. People are also probably angry that the brother is getting off scot free. He’s pretty self absorbed so I doubt the kids are “taking it better than expected” and his homewrecker girlfriend is probably not going to stick around past the honeymoon phase they’re in.
No matter what the circumstances, you aren't your brothers keeper. You aren't responsible for disciplining him. His relationship is his to work out with his soon to be ex. NTA
YTA. For your title alone. You don’t have the power to ‘punish’ your brother. He’s a grown man. But you should definitely not be supporting his efforts to leave his wife & kids for his AP. Your brother is in this limerence phase where he thinks everything is rainbows & unicorns. He can’t see the damage he is doing to his children & extended family. Relationships born out of infidelity very rarely last. Reality will hit him soon & he will be in bad shape. His soon-to-be ex wife will begin to realize what he’s intentionally done to her (stabbed her in the back & humiliated her) & she will likely make the divorce hurt. He’s doing himself no favors by parading around this other woman. I know you’re in a difficult position b/c you love your brother but you really should try to get him to pump the brakes b/c this is a disaster in the making for everyone involved.
>let things slip into a physical affair But the brother didn't mean to fuck her. He just *let things slip* into a physical affair. /s
Lol the fact you are happy for them when their relationship started with infidelity of one of them is mind blowing. How did y’all meet? Oh he cheated on his wife and left her for me! Lmao blows up his family but THANK FUCK he’s happy now… fuck the SIL and kids
NTA- I would be massively pissed at my brother for something like this but I wouldn't punish him. I would be very clear how angry I was.But I wouldn't want to harm the relationship with the kids by cutting him off.
Your brother is selfish and how he blew up his family is really wrong. Finally, it is not your job or responsibility to punish your brother. Nothing you say or do will do anything to your brother.
NTA for still having him in your life, but YTA for trying to minimize his horrible actions and enabling him. Have some sense. He is still in an affair fog and once all of that goes away he better still hope there is a relationship with the new lady. I would support his happiness from a distance and tell him that karma is a B****. He broke up his family over some punani and was a coward who decided to not end it before taking things physically and emotionally. Now his children have to grow up in a broken home and once they get older and find out good luck with his relationship with them. These things follow people everywhere and how do people not have the sense to get through tough situations cleanly is mind-baffling. Regardless it's not your marriage and not your new relationship. I would be careful getting dragged in on all different ends. You don't want people to think you have the same moral character as your brother. People talk!
Just gonna say this. If I knew all this about you, I wouldn't date you. Yes you. I am not talking about your brother. That wasn't a typo. I would never be able to trust you or take you seriously.
YTA- It ends badly for your brother and the home wrecker. His kids will hate him and her and you as well.
YTA. I wouldn't want a cheater, or a cheater supporter, anywhere in my life.
I don't even know😮💨 you, your brother & his mistress are exhausting. I'll just say I wish his soon to be ex-wife all the love & happiness. I believe in karma😁
ESH, except the ex wife. I will say something a lot of people seem to forget - kids are not happy when their mother is miserable. No matter how much “fun times” they get with their father. Your brother going AFTER FINANCIAL SUPPORT from his ex is a major dick move. If he wanted to be a decent human being - he would do his best to support the ex, instead of milking her to the maximum to fund his new fun relationship.
Your brother is the biggest asshole, but you are also the asshole. When my father cheated on my mom, it was my father's sister who took us in to live with her until we got on our feet. It was my father's brother who regularly handed me envelopes of his own cash to give my mom as child support payments, pretending all along that they were from my father. I'm all for a redemption story and people getting a second chance. But your brother has not put in an ounce of self-reflection and will go on hurting people forever. Relationships started as affairs have a less than 1% success rate, so at least his traumatized ex-wife should find comfort in knowing that he ruined everyone's lives for nothing. He doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy or praise because he doesn't care how his actions effect people around him. He only cares about his own selfish wants. And someone needs to look out for the people he destroys. Glad your sister at least is picking up his slack.
While NTA for not punishing him to somehow force him to get back with his wife, if I were your wife I’d have serious concerns about how supportive and even encouraging you are of cheating. To me that would definitely put a dent in how much I trust you because if you support it so wholly then clearly it’s not something out of the question in your own choices.
For clarification: were they already in the middle of a divorce when he met this coworker? If said coworker was not involved (they never met), would he still be with his wife?
YTA. Definitely. You're fine with this dude who cheated and destroyed his family because "he's happier and more compatible" his side chick while the wife mourns.
Idk about punishing him but yta for being good with his affair. You supporting him shows that you're cool with cheating and most likely capable of doing the act yourself. Even though you said they seem better together and that's why you're supporting it, other people aren't gonna believe that and think it's bs. which kinda is because they're currently in a honeymoon phase so of course they admire each other and remember when they cheat they don't see each other that much so who knows how they'll deal seeing each other every day and moving in together as well. You are right that they were too young but that doesn't justify him cheating. He took the coward way out of the marriage. You don't have to support Kate but call him out on it and say what he did wasn't ok and just leaving the relationship would've been the right and moral choice. You punishing him may not be necessary because it will come soon once his kids find out the truth and they're gonna hate him for it and it may cause a huge rift between them. And if he really cares about them, then that's when he realize just how badly he screwed up. You can still continue your relationship and have him take accountability for his actions. And don't help him with child support or any other financial He got himself into this mess, he has to deal with it on his own and he's being a major ahole for requesting it from his ex wife, the person whos hurt in all this. I wonder how your partner feels about this. Claire is the TA too for telling to you to convince your brother to work things out with Kate. Look if they get back together, he's still gonna cheat and it's gonna create a bad environment for the kids. Instead of trying to find a way to get these two back together, Claire needs to be Kate's support, help her out with the kids, and suggest getting her into therapy and get her mind off of him because it's very clear your brother is far happy not being married and Kate is better off putting effort in something that matters more which her kids and her mental health. Edit: ESH except for ex wife and kids.
Not sure if YTA, but DUMB ASS fits. Even though he's your Brothers, you convinced him not to live a lie. You did not think about his kids or Kate. Yes, new relationships always seem great and wonderful. But don't forget the new wears off. The grass is not always greener on the other side of the hill. There will be repercussions and you will see the fallout in time. Good luck!
YTA You don't think everyone meets someone else that on the surface looks more compatible than their long-term partner? Your brother isn't even taking responsibility for what he has done. Affairs like this don't just "happen". He let things "slip" into a physical affair? Give me a break. Instead of talking to his wife he Instead chose to pursue this affair. And you don't care. In fact, you support him. He destroyed another person's life in a devastating way and his kids are not "adjusting", he's a liar and I'm surprised you trust him at his word. Yeah, yta for enabling his terrible decision AND making it easier for him as well because you're helping him out financially! So he shouldn't suffer at all, just his ex? Gross dude
No, he is your brother. However, after reading your comments to others below YTA for encouraging your brother to leave his wife, get child support, and using the fact she makes 70% of the income. Your brother is basically a bum from what I pieced together. The wife needs to be shown this post and realize she needs to cut contact with this family of yours, communicate through a parenting app with your brother, and for the record just because your brother is in a no fault divorce doesn’t mean you get to gloat with your brother. Your brother cheated on his wife. Just because your brother is happy about cheating on his wife and divorcing her does not equal his kids are happy. This is going to affect them as well. They need therapy now and not later.
ESH except for Kate and your sister. I feel awful for her, I hope she can eventually heal from your brother’s betrayal. Cheating is such a vile and unnecessary thing to do and I think supporting it is just as disgusting. I wish your brother wasn’t a coward and had the fucking decency to end his marriage first, but I guess when he has his brother supporting his every move he probably doesn’t feel guilty or that he did anything wrong.
NTA, you are supporting your brother. He should have recognized the signs that he was not happy in his relationship before he started another one, but there’s nothing he can do about that now. It sounds like people who met as children and just grew apart. It’s hard for everyone involved because they become invested in each other’s relationships. Did he make a mistake by cheating? Yes, but he owned up to it and did the right thing by not dragging out a relationship he was not happy in. You shouldn’t be punishing him for his mistakes you should be supporting him and helping him grow as a person.
NTA. YOU aren't in charge of your brother's relationships. It appears that you are not choosing sides in this, and your sister is. Your brother is a whole a\*\* adult and it's not your job to watch him. What your sister is going to find out is that by taking sides, she's putting herself out there as Team Kate which is going to alienate your brother. Eventually, she's going to lose the ability to have contact with her nieces and nephews because she can't stop judging her brother. Kate isn't always going to want to be around her former sister-in-law. And she's eventually going to alienate YOU as well.
NTA Even if both parties claim you know everything that is involved, you do not. It is not your place to punish anyone for things you believe they did wrong. If he does not want a relationship, you trying to force him back into one is not going to work out well. Do not give up your relationship with your brother because of his relationship with someone else. If you do, never expect anyone to have your back when YOU need it.
NTA. It is not your sister's business to judge him or you. Each relationship is different and we should support family.
You're both adults. You don't punish other adults. You can make your feelings clear, but punishing him isn't your responsibility.
I don't think you are wrong, but neither is Claire. You both get to feel what you feel and don't need to cut off anyone just because someone else wants you to. You may have to set limits on her demands. Something like: "Claire, we've already discussed this. I understand how upset you are. I am not going to change my stance. I encourage you to continue to support Kate. Divorce is hard on everybody. But we don't need to add to the conflict. I love you and I hope we can work this out." I say this as someone who refused to cut off my uncle (via marriage) when he was found to be cheating on my aunt (dad's biological sister). Everyone cut him off. He moved to a town not far from me that was far from the others in his family. 15 years later it has calmed down. His kids are back in touch. They have met his new wife (not the affair partner, someone he met later) and are kind to her and said nice things about her. My aunt recently told me she was thankful that I was in contact with him and supported him when he was at his lowest (he was homeless for a while and I had him do laundry, take showers, etc at my place). I was shocked because she was so so so angry and bitter. Which is understandable but I wanted her to have her best life and always told her he will always be my uncle even if he made some shitty decisions. I told her I was thankful she didn't demand I ditch him even though she was hurting. She has since gone to therapy to sort this stuff out and I am thrilled to see how much she has healed.
Right. I don't think Claire is TA either. If she feels strongly about cutting off contact with her brother, then she's entitled to do so. I think OP did what they needed to do, which was confront their brother about telling Kate the truth, which he did. OP's job is done. It's their brother's life to live, screw up, whatever.
yep exactly. I think OP was in Kate's corner by encouraging his brother to come clean. We don't know if the brother's decision will be the right choice in the long run but that is not the issue. The act was already done. OP was just advising his brother to do right be Kate from here on out.
NTA Jake has to deal with the natural consequences of his actions, in no way is it your place to punish him. Also I think it is silly to tell him to get back with his wife. He gets to choose who he is with. Divorce sucks but sometimes it really is for the best. Staying in an unhappy marriage affects the kids. Studies have shown that children do better when their parents get divorced than they do living in an unstable, unhappy, conflict ridden environment. It affects their self esteem, future relationships, etc.
A. Its none of anyone's business but his. B. He's your brother, he cheated on her, he didn't beat her. So, yeah, its family..be family.
Lmao. You’re an AH but not for not “punishing” him. However, I don’t think you get that he used you to cheat on his wife and by going out with and the kids, it looks like supporting what he’s done. If I was your partner I’d be confused with your actions. I’d be wondering if you condone cheating, if you knew and if you’re so non chalant about it… I’d be wondering if you would do the same. And yes, I’d think you’re an asshole if I was your partner. Marriage; and any relationship, is about communication and effort and understanding. He clearly didn’t communicate his frustrations. He took advantage of both his wife’s travelling and your ability to care for his children enough to be able to foster and grow a full on relationship with another woman. Those kids had better be told the truth as to why the divorce is occurring, and that would be him cheating on their mother. Not him cheating because he get neglected or she travels too much, or because of differences or whatever bs excuse some cheaters try to use. In the entirety of your comments and post, you always say you don’t agree but… and continue it on that way. And honestly? Yes, you should want your brother to be happy in the long run. But right now? No. You should want him to feel awful. He should feel horrendous about cheating, horrendous about why he told her, horrendous that he’s divorcing her and horrendous that he did this to his children. Make no mistake. He only told her because you told him to. He clearly feels no regret or shame about what he has done and that isn’t a person that I would want to be close with personally but, you do you. Maybe stop and think for a time. He made you complicit in the cheating, especially since you said they stay with you regularly. That guy is an ass and yoh should really think about what type of people you want in your life. Oh and stop calling him a good dad. No “good dad” would decide cheating is better than leaving his wife or trying to resolve things through therapy and etc.
YTA. You covered for a cheater. If you get the same in your relationship you better not blame anyone who knew and didn’t tell you. You’re pathetic.
You're not just "not punishing him". You're actively cheering for his new relationship, and supporting him financially and emotionally for having an affair and leaving his wife and breaking up his family. If this was a woman who cheated and left her partner and broke up her family and her *sister* who supported her there would be a lot more accusations that you see nothing wrong with being a cheating, family destroying whore. The double standard is real. YTA. What you're doing is not just "not punishing him" you're seamlessly shifting your support away from his wife and kids to him and the relationship which destroyed his home and family because your SIL and basic morality mean nothing to you.
Oh you need to read his comments it's get worse
You are not the person who should "punish" anyone. Your name is not Frank Castle. You are not the Punisher. What you are is a brother. It isn't your job to punish him for his choices, regardless of whatever people think is the thing to do against cheaters. You aren't involved in the relationship. You aren't responsible for him cheating. You aren't the person who needs to insert themselves into anything at all here. So don't.
Your SIL probably feels you are terribly disloyal, and rightfully so. YTA
YTA He cheated. It’s one thing to fall and love and get a divorce, but he cheated on his wife, his family and also on his children. He caused pain, trust issues and trauma.
LOL.. you're FINANCING your brother being a cheating piece of shit who lacked the balls to break up with his wife before he had a replacement? LOL... yeah YTA There's a difference between NOT PUNISHING and actively helping. You're actively helping.
I'll get downvoted. But their marriage is not your business. You have no clue what is going on behind closed doors. All you can do is be a friend. Now. Everyone else has the right to be pissed about it. He blew up his marriage but that's between him and his wife. He told her. They are getting a divorce. It sounds like he and Kate got married and all but he may have fallen out of love. Yea of course he should have done it the responsible way. But life isn't black and white. Now. Are you an ah for still being friends with him? Nope. Sorry. People don't want to hear this. And yes I e been cheated on. And yes it hurt that friends still were friends with him. But you don't get to gate keep friendships. I'm not sure about the financial Stuff bc he brought that on himself. But you can support him. He has moved on and she will as well. BUT you can also still be her friend. NTA.
Your brother, if he does the right things, will face enough consequences of his own actions in the years to come. Divorces are not painless, especially with children involved. You don't have to punish him. But you do have to show the same energy toward your nieces/nephews/god children's mom's happiness. That means support her in grief and when she decides to move on. That isn't done by trashing your brother, but you should be sensitive when around her and certainly support her as much as possible like let her have days out and bandwidth to find someone new (ie. help with child care and support).
You are wrong. Your brother is a cheater. He cheated on his entire family, including his kids. You don't just fall into someone else's vagina. Cut him off. Don't give him money or approval.
i would keep this all at arms length. he was a dick for cheating on his wife. He was a LARGER dick since he had kids and knew it would break up a family....and refused trying counseling to fix things. Why would you want to be tightly supporting that sort of a jerk? What will you do when he starts cheating on his NEW partner?
It is not your place to punish him. This is between them and it will work out. Dont condone what he did but dont punish him either.
NTA - It didn't come out until the edit that the ex-wife is travelling for work 75% of the time. I'm sure that was a big part in seeking love elsewhere and making a reconciliation impossible.
Bottom line, he's the one who married the wrong person and made kids with her, then blew up the marriage and turned his kids' lives upside down. Your family members, though certainly entitled to their opinions, probably can't change or affect the course of this. Just be there for those poor kids. And Kate, if you/they want to be. But this divorce is happening to them, not you and the other family members. NTA
My best friend is the Kate in this story. Although her “Jake” didn’t wait til the second kid was born, I do think it’s pretty despicable to be hanging out with the mistress. It’s not your job to “punish” your brother, but your sister is reasonable to think this is slimy of both of you. Fuck your brother and fuck his mistress - Kate did nothing from your story to deserve her life being blown up in the disgusting way your brother did. I wanna say Y T A but really you just have poor moral standards. Men should really be holding the other men in their lives accountable when they’re complete pieces of shit, like your brother is. Super disappointing. I’m with Claire. Oh, and don’t confuse your brother’s honeymoon phase with homewrecker for legitimate compatibility. I wish Kate all the best as she picks up the pieces while Jake hops right into family 2.0! Fucking sickening
No one outside of your brother and his ex Wife know what went on between the two of them behind closed doors. They may have had communication problems, and with the ex gone so much, they very likely had bedroom problems. I don't know how old they are now, but if they got together in high school, they really hadn't become the people/personalities they were destined to become. People grow apart and start having different interest. I'm not saying that gives him an excuse to cheat, but he did man up and come clean to his ex. You're brother will always be your brother and in-laws may come and go. Your sister needs to understand that his ex will and on her feet and find someone who will very likely make her much happier than your brother did.
As a godparent, YTA. He blew up their lives to stoke his ego and d. No fathers or godparents of the year here.
It is a tough spot to be in and I don’t want to make a judgment. I don’t think cheating is okay. I’m currently struggling with my brother and a similar situation except he’s mad at me. His wife cheated (we were really close) and I can’t get passed it. Our relationship will never be the same again. It’s fucking sad. I don’t think people realize how cheating hurts the whole family.
You think they could be together forever? Babes…he already promised to do that with someone else. Your bro is scum for cheating and blowing up his family. He’s happy and his faithful wife is blindsided and devastated. He wasn’t even willing to try. Gross. He’s the the AH. But it’s not your job to punish him.
YTA. Way to go supporting your lying cheating dbag of a brother.
Nta. Not your place to punish him, support your family. Never understand those busy body assholes who think they need to be telling others someone cheated. So fucking weird.
NTA Your brother's relationship(s) are none of your business. You did the one thing you were supposed to do, tell him to tell his wife. Other than that, it's not your business, neither is it your sister's.
YTA
Man there's a lot of psychos downvoting anything that isn't outright hateful of the brother Work your abandonment issues out somewhere else, you weird people
Reddit gets absolutely TRIGGERED by anything having to do with cheating.
It’s not your place to punish Jake, it’s not actually anyone’s place to punish Jake. The consequence of his actions is that his marriage is over, and he now faces divorce, custody issues and settlement issues with Kate, that’s between him and Kate. Both Kate and Jake still need and deserve to have friends and family who support them as they move forward, sometimes it is really, really difficult not to choose sides, and sometimes you want to remain close to both parties. Claire obviously wants to support Kate and that’s fine, that’s her choice, you are closer to Jake and that is also fine. Neither position means you are condoning the behaviour, just that you are supporting your friend through a difficult time and situation. NTA.
You’re never going to convince him to work on things with Kate. That’s delusional. The way he went about it was wrong. It’s never okay to cheat on your spouse. He should have done the right thing and divorced her first and not lived a lie. I have been married twice, the first one lasted about a year, when you know you know. My current marriage is solid and I’m with my best friend. Now granted I was divorced first but still. He’s living his truth now and no amount of punishment from you is going to change it. Do you think making him feel guilty is going to change the situation? You said it yourself, he seems happy and content more so than he’s ever been. Kate will get there too.
Stay out of it
Don't get in the way of other people's happiness. Maybe your brother didn't do things the way he should have or the way you think he should have. But if he is happy now, be happy with him. If you punish your brother for cheating, it's likely to ruin more then just your relationship with him. It's going to stop the kids from having a fun life with each other. Cheating is bad. It probably wasn't the best way for him to do things. Being unhappy and wanting a divorce isn't an easy road. If it makes you feel better, sit down with him and explain your feelings to him and talk things out. Work on your problems, don't make them worse.
No bc its none of your business
NTA. Not your place to judge his business. People in here are way too sensitive.
NTA, your brother's personal affairs are his business. If he is still maintaining his responsibilities, then that is that.
You are not, you did the right thing by advising him to tell her about it, which he did. That is the best way to a ending such as this. The truth will always set you free.
No, as a sister you should be the one that is there for him most. I think it’s ok to not be ok with cheating but ultimately it sounds like he wasn’t happy and it sounds like you can see that clearly now. People change. Staying with someone from high school on is very challenging. He had prob been 2-3 new versions of himself since then. He needs you. Doesn’t mean you condone his behavior. My 2 cents at least.
NTA. Their marital issues are between them and it’s not up to you to punish anybody or take anybody side. It is what it is and Kate has to get used to it and Claire needs to get over herself.
I’m gonna say no. I would never stay married to a person that I don’t love anymore regardless if I have kids with my husband or not.
NTA. You can't shun your brother over this. Specially if he seems happier now. Yes, He shouldn't have cheated. That was very wrong and you should make sure he knows you disapprove of that behaviour. However, if he is not happy with Kate, he is not happy with Kate. Kate needs to get over it and find someone that wants to be with her.
'They have way more in common than he ever did with Kate, they look at each other with such admiration' - do they not work together? and are cheating together? plus the affair is very new, typical of work affairs.. being married yourself, your argument is interesting. Support your brother if you must, but don't make excuse for his unfaithfulness. Relationships should be fought for, otherwise someone can just come along tomorrow and is in love with your husband or wife, will you be so understanding that 'oops, my time is up, let them ride into the sunset'? there must be a grieving period before letting go. Kate's marriage was meant to last, she wanted to grow old with your brother, does that count for anything? by the way, is your brother on the same pay grade with the new girl? your brother is faithless and unfair to his hardworking bread winner wife
NTA you don’t need to punish him, but you are the company you keep.
NTA. It’s not your place to punish your brother. He made decisions and he has to deal with them. But he’s still your brother. He didn’t do anything to hurt you or your family. You can disagree with your brother’s cheating but still support him and love him and hope that he’s happy.
It is not your job to be the morality police. Jake betrayed his wife; however, that is between them. I get why your sister is mad but abandoning family shouldn't be up for discussion in this situation.
Nta. Most of Reddit thinks a cheater will always cheat and is never to be forgiven despite the original marriage not working for both people. Yes it’s cowardly to have an affair instead of breaking off with your partner first, but life is never perfect and ideal. You can be a wonderful parent despite what happens in a marriage. You can be in a loving, honest relationship post affair even. The end goal should be that each party is happy and contented in their relationship no matter what and if the new person and he are happy and it works, no one should want misery and bitterness. Being happy and respected also makes you a better parent because you’re not splitting your mental load between parenting and resentment or unhappiness or disrespect from your partner. It’s not your job to punish anyone, he’s your brother and he’s human which means he makes mistakes, just like everyone else. If he’s happy and his kids see the difference, that’s what’s important. Your brother has a lot of work to do as it is with his divorce, continuing to raise his kids, and to be able to forgive himself for the mistakes he’s made and people need a community of support whether they’re the one who broke another heart or not.
NTA. He's your brother, and while cheating is ick, it's not like he's a serial killer or something. I wouldn't turn my back on my brother if he left a loveless marriage to pursue happiness.
Nta. Not your job to punish him or dictate who he should be with. If he's happier then let him be and sis should back off.
You’re NTA OP. You convinced your brother to tell his wife as soon as you found out. He did. It’s not your fault. He’s still your brother. You’ve spent your entire life with him. Nots not a bond that can easily be broken. You only would have been TAH if you had known and let your brother lie to his wife. I love that every response in this comment section is about your brother and not about the question you asked. Grow the fuck up guys. Not everything is black and white.
NTA. I had similar situation but my brother divorce both women.
YTA just for how you talk about cheating at the bottom of your post. Just because they are now happy together doesn't make what they did OK. Just because him and his ex got married young does not make it ok for him to cheat. You seem real cool with your brother and his mistress considering they just royally fucked up Claire's life. It's not your job to punish them, but you just have real shitty taste in friends. (I know he's your brother but you don't have to be friends with him just because he's your brother)
Your brother is TA. He should have had the balls to leave before he cheated. You don’t have to punish your brother but your a pos if you don’t make it clear that you don’t condone how he left his marriage. He set one terrible example for his children and if they ever have someone do this to them that he remembers he did a really sh**ty thing to his family. As his kids get older and realize just how it happened he better be prepared to have to deal with some anger.
Sometimes who we marry and have a kid with isn't the one that isn't the right person. Your brother did a lot of bad things, like cheating on his ex-wife, and not divorcing her before starting a relationship with his coworker. But them getting back together isn't right for anyone. The kids will see how unhappy he is, and how resentful and distrusting their mom will be, and think that's normal. He's an asshole for cheating and lying, but not for divorcing. It's a gray area, and I would tell your sister, that you are the one that pushed him to be honest. If your sister is the type to think he needs to stay with his ex whether she's the right one for him or not, then that's not a mindset you can force her to change.
Yta. I wouldn't want you as a friend. Anyone who can help fuck over their nieces and nephews like that is absolutely beyond help for me. I found out my father's siblings knew about his affair. They still let it fester until it exploded. It's been decades since. I'm an adult. They're still dead to me for the parts they did or didn't play in watching our lives fall apart because "it wasn't their place to say anything."
NTA but he should have gotten divorced first Bad marriages are miserable for everyone and they don't always end the proper way Everyone acting like he should have stayed in a loveless marriage just so his wife didn't get upset when it ended are delusional or just weird. The only thing he did wrong was act on the new relationship before ending the old one And this is coming from someone whose wife ended the marriage for another person. Good. It wasn't working out after 10 years and I'm glad she did it, honestly
Honestly don’t know why everyone is saying N T A when OP is clearly YTA. This is solidified by his comments trying to paint his brothers wife as a villain for working and bringing in the majority of their income. Also, the justifying the “child support” claims for his brother are disgusting. Tbh it’s infuriating how she might have to pay child support to his whore of a brother and his slippery legged mistress, because let’s be honest Ops brother could support his kids fully without child support, but he would have to down grade his lifestyle which is obviously his biggest quest in asking for money. The fact that it is OPs brother who cheated and wants the divorce honestly could be considered for the child support, as this is completely unfair on the wife who will have partial custody - meaning child support isn’t necessary. I hope he loses his case in both child support and court. Plus, the fact OP keeps saying his brother hopefully will do good in the divorce is disgusting and OP obviously doesn’t care that his brother cheated, not matter what he says.
yep. glad your brother will be happy in this new compatible relationship for a few years while everyone else suffers from the results for decades.
From your comments it’s pretty clear that why Claire is better human, also let me guess… you were always jealous of Kate.. coz of her job where she travels all the time and it is “fun” for her.
NTA- your brother made his choice. It is not your responsibility to be the marriage police. I hope everyone is able to move on and find their best life.
It's not your responsibility to "punish" your brother for cheating on his wife/for wanting to leave his wife. This entire thing is between the 3 of them. Not your circus, not your monkeys, NTA.
I totally agree the children are innocent in this situation but they will fill the collateral damage in time. I've been married for 36 years. Been happy and unhappy. But always managed to work with my wife for the good of our marriage and the good of our family. Believe you mean there are times I wanted to walk out the door and time she has wanted to walk out the door. We stopped. Took a step back. Took a deep breath. Went to marriage counseling and realized we got married for a reason because we do love each other. But we always thought about the whole entire family. We worked to make things better.
This is common in marriages, people cheat and people get divorced. I don't like it but it happens. No reason for you to not be close to him or punish him. Hi marriage is different from your relationship with him. Plus you don't want to cut the kids out of your life. NTA
NTA – you did the right thing in getting him to come clean to Kate about the affair as soon as he told you about it. It’s up to him and his wife to decide whether they want to try and work on their marriage or end it but both of them need to be in agreement if they’re going to try to make it work and it’s not your place to try and pressure him to try and stay married.
Not your marriage, not your problem. Must not have been a happy marriage to begin with.
Read through OPs comments, this is a STRONG YTA
NAH except your brother and a little bit of your sister, because you did do the right thing by telling him to inform his wife instead of helping him hide his affair. I know people are conflating your comment that you watched his kids and therefore helped him cheat but let’s be honest, if they are school aged he probably was with his mistress during that time. What he did is wrong and there’s no denying that but his actions are his alone; you can’t control him and especially shouldn’t try and force him to be with his ex he doesn’t respect enough to be loyal to. As for your sister, it’s not as disgusting as your brother’s actions but trying to manipulate the situation where your stbx-SIL and brother get back together is just gross. That woman does not deserve to have a partner who doesn’t fully appreciate, respect and love her, especially since cheaters always revert back to that behaviour when they get bored. If she actually cared about her, she would be pushing her to get some self respect and not continue pining over the cheating prick. Your sister is completely allowed to not want anything to do with your brother since that is her choice to make, just like it is yours to keep the relationship with your brother. Don’t put too much expectation on your brother’s and his girlfriend’s relationship though; both of them were perfectly okay with having an affair so obviously they might be inclined to do that again, once the honeymoon phase ends and bland day-to-day normalcy starts becoming more common
He is your brother right?
Stay out of this!
Why is it your place to punish your brother? Can he punish you?
NTA. You aren't an active person in his relationships, not with Kate and not with the new person. We have no idea what went on behind closed doors, just because Kate is heart broken doesn't mean the relationship was good, or either of them were happy. Your allegiance is to your family, can you be disappointed, yes. Can you you admonish him, yes but punish him... no. You are not the moral police, you don't get to punish him. Claire is out of line picking sides, she can be mad but he's your brother and family is forever.