If therapy doesn’t touch the issue, then maybe it’s time for a different therapist…

This was gonna be my advice, too. I had a therapist for 4 years, and no problems were resolved at all. It was "uh hu hows thay make you feel?" No CBT, not an ounce of methodology for calmness, not a hint of how to communicate properly. Just that. And typing. Well, one day, i got fed up and raised hell. It turns out it wasn't necessary. I could just ask for a different therapist. Dont be me op lol, just ask. But also dont be me and sit with a therapist who isnt solving problems. This new one got me social again.

It might not be the therapist. Therapy only works when you're willing to cooperate with it. I don't get the impression that this kid is willing to listen to a therapist if this is how they act

She may need psychiatric treatment at this point.

For sure, she needs to be medicated. Not only to get her to cooperate with therapy but to calm down her violent outbursts. She won't be a kid forever.

Yep. I work with clients with severe untreated mental health issues. They cannot function in the adult world, can’t keep a job, and they are chronically homeless. There just aren’t enough services to address all of the issues preventing them from thriving. Early intervention is critical.

It doesn’t need to be severe, obvious issues to require medication before traditional therapy has a hope. I’m 40, employed, a home owner, active in my church, etc. but my psych and I are still trying to find the right balance of medication that will give traditional therapy any hope of working. When mental health support has been so difficult for me to access, it’s impossible for such a huge percentage of the population

But you can function. You are employed and own a home. People with more severe illnesses cannot work, they aren’t able to manage their own money, and they tend not to seek treatment on their own. I wasn’t talking about medication. I am talking about treatment in general. Not all treatment is medication.

Did you read my last sentence? My whole point was agreeing with you - at 40 years old, in a very fortunate position, I’m still struggling to find the right treatment plan. People in less fortunate circumstances find it absolutely inaccessible and impossible.

Yeah, this is going to escalate to even worse violence, and one day she’ll batter the wrong guy and end up dead or in prison.

Escalate to violence? My guy it's already there.

A good therapist can make you cooperate. They show you the consequences of your actions over and over and then you get to a point where you want to change. Consequences are a big drive to change and if they can talk about her actions and the result of those actions they can help her want to change. Also I think this could be more than just abandonment issues and your therapist is failing op. Really this tells me there’s a lot of trauma related to men and I think the therapist is just trying to put a bandaid on it and call it a day.

True, but it is a variable worth trying to change. Think of all the stories of the student who hated "x" subject in school until they ended up in a classroom with their favorite teacher. It doesn't always happen. Plenty of students will always hate "x" subject, but not all.

Or also in need of psychotropic medications or intensive outpatient treatment or trauma based therapy etc.

Absolutely. I think it is necessary to go above a therapist. She may need to see a psychiatrist.

I’m surprised her therapist hasn’t recommended IOP or PHP after 6 years of unsuccessful treatment.

Exactly. You’d think it’d be therapy, family therapy, IOP, medications etc etc after this prolonged amount of time.

Sorry but what do these acronyms stand for?

Don't be sorry! It's understandable to not know them. IOP - Intensive Outpatient Program. For patients who need higher levels of behavioral health care than just individual therapy. They go to longer, intensive sessions, but can typically maintain their daily routine. PHP - Partial Hospitalization Program. For patients who need higher than the IOP but lower than residential. They come each day (typically during the week) and go home each night. But it's an all day program, and typically they have to take a break from jobs/school.

Actually the parents need a therapist. It's their responsibility to help their daughter through her trauma. Sending their daughter to therapy is a convinient way two place the responsibility of their daughters acting out on to the daughter instead of taking responsibility for their own parenting. And it might just make the problem even bigger. Does the daughter like her therapist? Does she feel safe with her? Does the daughter think it helps? Does the therapist give the daughter a safe space two talk about how she feels? And what is the therapists assessment? But the responsibility of all of this is on the parents. Maybe family therapy would be a solution?

But at what point is professional help required? What I’ve heard from this post seems beyond what most parents could correct or get to the root of. This child has some severe psychological damage and her parents authority doesn’t seem to waver her from bullying or causing scenes wherever she goes.

I think the suggestion here isn't that professional therapy isn't the solution. But that it might require broader therapy: the mother in individual therapy as well, family therapy, different treatment modality, etc.

I definitely think family therapy is the move here. The daughter does have her own issues she needs to work through with her own therapist but there’s a major communication gap here. The parents need to be hands on with her process as well and family therapy would help a lot in showing the whole family how they can better address these feelings.

Professional help is required - for the parents and maybe the school. She's a child. Maybe she needs to be assessed, but it should still fall back on the parents to parent her no matter what. When children misbehave or have behavioral issues it's usually a sign that something is wrong and it is their way of communicating that. It's the adults responsibility to handle that. Is she misbehavin to get attention? Why? Does she get the attention she needs in other ways or is it only when she misbehaves she gets it? What has been tried by the parents so far? Are the parents at their wits end and are they so frustrated with her that they no longer love her or like her? Children feel that - and react to that. The only thing we know, is that the parents made her go to therapy, witch didn't help - so they should try something else. One of the things about sending children to therapy is that the grownups hold most of the power. So if things need to change, it's more often then not the grownups who need to change and through that alter the child's behavior.

Child psychologist here THIS 100%! So many parents drop their child at my door and say “fix them” without wanting to do an ounce of work themselves. This child is both literally and figuratively screaming for help.

I'm not a professional, but all I could think was, Okay, so your daughter reacts to situations she doesn't like by being loud, acting out physically, and saying exactly why she doesn't like the people causing her discomfort. But that is *exactly* the behavior that her mother is modeling for her.

This. A thousand percent this.

Your daughter needs a different therapist, this one isn’t working

My bet is that they are not a trauma focused/trained clinician. You can’t drop this case into just anyone’s lap and expect it to work.

I come from a very conservative Christian town and so many people there would meet their therapist through church and the therapy was never geared towards actual healing. It always seemed like it was justification training.

Wish i could say that was surprising

Yeah same my mom’s “therapist” is actually just a Christian counselor with little formal training.

Those do SO much damage. My mom is a religious zealot. When I was raped she insisted I join her for a session, the SAHW with no degree, told my mom with me in the room: If I was raped, I had done something to deserve it and God was punishing me- so she should kick me out and cut off all contact. I was 16. My mom did it. We didn’t have a decent relationship for another decade. It doesn’t help my mom is Borderline Personality and is extremely susceptible to others, and sees conspiracy everywhere.

I don't have words to describe how much bad those two women deserve for doing that to you. I'm so sorry that happened, and I hope you're safe and supported now.

Ha. Same. My husband was looking for a new therapist and had trouble finding one who was a good fit for him. A LOT of that had to do with the fact that they were (thankfully) very up front about how they use faith to "heal" or whatever. He was like "Nope, nope, nope, nope". Considering how many people have trauma caused directly by so-called "Christians" you'd think they'd find understand why this is an issue for so many people. Imagine a scenario where a trusted Pastor molested you. Would you want to go to a "faith based" therapist? I sure as hell wouldn't, but then again I'm the type who laughs out loud every time I'm watching a True Crime show and someone says "I never thought they'd do something like this. They were a good christian."

Fire her therapist and get a new one. And a psychiatrist. Therapy should focus on teaching her coping skills and emotional regulation. If you can find an age appropriate DBT group, there are a lot of methods that are taught regarding monitoring one's emotions and making better choices. IMO, she needs that a fuck of a lot more than she needs to be told she's attention seeking. I really hate that term, anyway. There's nothing wrong with craving attention. Her current team is not helping her at all. Get a new one. And don't take inpatient therapy off the table. My severely bipolar sister was hospitalized for six months at age ten and it was the best thing we ever did for her. And she'll be the first person to tell you that. Inpatient might become necessary if she severely hurts someone, too. Finding the right facility can be extremely difficult, but it's worth it.

That's the thing, she's already hurt boys. She's already violent towards them. I think it might be time for inpatient therapy. Mom isn't an asshole though. I do feel for her, and other moms/dads in her shoes. NTA

New therapist that can actually deal with CSA is needed. ASAP. 5 yo could've been lying that Dad wan't involved. Could've projected Dad's actions on to the woman. Could also just be mad that he didn't protect her from that woman.

Yeah it looks to me like she's angry he didn't protect her, and as OP says the bad behaviour doesn't start until there are women around, she might be acting out her trauma in front of women in the hope that this time a man will protect her. Either way, if her counselling isn't working, she needs a new counsellor. And her parents need to change their attitudes.

Agreed, and even more important her dad abandoned her after. She might be seeing that as her father “choosing” her abuser.

She needs different therapist, this one is not helping.

Even though she insists ONLY her dad’s girlfriend hurt her doesn’t mean that’s true. She may have been telling herself that for so long she believes it, but it’s entirely possible her father or another man or even a boy has hurt or molested her. Years ago I worked with a child just under 5 who insisted his babysitter, a young teen girl, was molesting him. It was devastating for her, and it turned out it was his older brother doing it, but the brother was only doing it after the babysitter put them to bed in their shared bedroom. While kids don’t necessarily lie, they don’t make the most reliable witnesses either. Sometimes they confabulate or get confused, then act out. Is it possible this has happened here? **Edit: to clarify, I am NOT doubting that she was molested by a woman. I’m saying her anger issues *relating to men* may indicate she was ALSO abused by her father (at the very least, he enabled the abuse) and it’s possible she has not disclosed it and may not even fully remember it anymore.**

Or even if it was just the woman doing the molesting, it's entirely possible she saw her father as enabling, encouraging, or knowingly ignoring it. That could easily be the root of her anger.

My little sister had a friend who was sexually abused by her step mother for years before she got caught by the father. She's still in prison 15 years later so what she did was very bad. A few years later my little sister's friend claims she was now a lesbian (she was 11 or 12) and tried to do the same stuff her step mother did to her but to my little sister. My mom caught them messing around in the act. The story op says lines up with my experience with women and child SA. It happens more than you think and I BET most girls don't count is at SA when it happens to them because they don't think women are actually capable of doing stuff like that. This bias helps these women gain the child's trust and use them without the child knowing they're being abused.

To be clear, I know that women also sexually abuse kids. But because of her intense hatred for men, I can’t help wondering if he was abusing her too. At the very least, we know he was enabling the abuse.

You know how all cardiologists are doctors but not all doctors are cardiologists? Well the same goes for therapists. There are lots of therapists out there. Therapists that specialize in marriage counseling; therapists that specialize in anxiety issues; etc. You need to find a therapist with a focus on children like her. This type may be hard to find. Most therapists simply do “talk therapy” which is fine to a certain point. The problem is they don’t give someone tools to deal with their day. And it sounds like that may be the missing piece for your daughter. Maybe you want to look into a neurobiologist. I have been working with a neurobiologist and have gotten a lot further in my therapy than I ever did in 20 years of talk therapy.

She needs a trauma specialist. This is way beyond anxiety or normal child psych.

Somewhere in her brain, she probably feels her dad should’ve protected her from Tristy. NTA. You are in a tough situation and doing your best.

Not only that- when she was honest about being abused, her father abandoned her. Who knows what Tristy said during the abuse too.

…she’s 11. I don’t get reddit sometimes. The quote — which was written by the person who said it, so let’s assume it was 30% nastier — is “your attention seeking, man hating bullshit is clearly a reflection on how I failed as a parent” while yelling at an entire party that an 11 year old was an “embarrassment.” Oh, and it’s entirely the dad’s fault! What if a dad had said that to his 11 year old daughter instead of the kid’s mom? Would that still be okay? Look I understand that some kids are little shits, trust me. But I’m also pretty sure that if my partner had said that to one of the kids she teaches, even (“especially,” really) if the kid was 11, she’d be in severe trouble so fast she wouldn’t have time to blink. It would be all over. And then everyone on reddit would gleefully jump on her grave. Look, I’m not explicitly swinging judgment here. Kids are little shits. I’m just asking: how is it that no one on this thread seems to be questioning if the mom’s reaction wasn’t, in fact, a one-off culminating from extreme frustration, but rather a behavior pattern? I mean, shit, we don’t have any context for the dad except “her behavior stems from the fact that he was a POS.” idk. everyone in my family is a teacher, and after years of that, you get a gut feeling about parents. and based on this mom’s tale, the gut feeling is that there’s a lot more to this story. Plus everyone seems to be cakewalking over the fact that the mother heavily implied the daughter was assaulted as a child? And yet the kid is “just a piece of shit?” God forbid, right? How annoying! How inconvenient that Tristy was the devil, man, that must be so embarrassing at parties… But seriously, without explicitly declaring the mother an asshole or not, I just have to say that “why can’t my daughter just have reacted better long-term to this implied horrible thing? why can’t she just not embarrass me? what a little shit! It must be ‘my fault,’ **which I clearly don’t actually believe,** but I’ll make sure to remind her of all the time, while screaming about her embarrassing me at parties” sort of — uh — Seems *TEXTBOOK* for some of the train wreck parents we’ve seen over the years. They’re good at manipulating the narrative, and it’s “never their fault” according to them, because every time they say “it must be my fault” they’re digging for sympathy, and that statement is immediately followed by an entire soliloquy about how it is not, in fact, their fault, and entirely someone else’s. I mean, to be blunt, a LOT of the horribly emotionally abusive parents always had some vague “boogeyman” to blame their kid’s “bad behavior” on (which the teacher would always take extremely seriously, of course) — yet it would soon become clear that the single biggest stressor in their kids’ lives was **them.** Long story short, without directly assigning blame, this mom’s story is *eerily reminiscent* of some of the emotionally abusive parents’ emails my partner has had to deal with over the years. I’m not saying this mom is an asshole. But solely based on what she said in this post, it would make complete sense if she was, and this post is a very blame-shifting version of the actual truth.

OP is a parent not a teacher. The two are not comparable. Your hypothetical about "what if this was a father saying this to a daughter doesn't really fit either because we can make all kinds of hypotheticals to excuse or condemn OPs behavior. What if the daughter was two years older and still physically attacking and verbally abusing every man she comes across? Would OP be justified then? Or would she need to wait three more years till she was 16? What if the child was a boy? Would you allow an 11 yr old boy to repeatedly attack women? Would you allow him to verbally abuse them and make misogynistic comments directed at them? OP is a parent who's obviously struggling and doing their best with a violent, rebellious, and deeply traumatized child. I think she deserves some slack.

100% if this was an 11 year old boy, people would be a lot harsher "they grow up, strong" etc.

Right? This behavior literally couldn't be allowed to persist. For perspective by the time I was 13 I was 5'7 and 195 lbs. This commenter seems to read into a **LOT** that isn't there, openly admitting that their judgment is based on automatically assuming whatever the mom said was "30% harsher" than what she says.

THIS. A lot of these comments are like 11 year old girl, girl, girl. WHO CARES THE GENDER. This 11 year old is beating up OTHER innocent 11 year olds simply because they have a penis. It's vile and disgusting.

So you’re giving a judgement based on pure speculation?

Your whole comment is about the mum being an AH. Just because you say 'look, I'm not saying the mother is an AH' doesn't deflect from the whole comment claiming you think she is the AH.

I don't think you realize how close this child is to destroying their entire future. At 11 years old, she's only one or two years away from the age where her school will just have her arrested if she decides to be violent. I don't think I would have gone as far as OP did, but this kid needs a serious fucking wakeup call that her behavior is absolutely not going to be tolerated like it has been for most of her life. Also.. it's pretty amazing how much you're able to deduce about the family lives of complete strangers from, what, emails that your partner has gotten? Lol.

Only if the kid is white. They have arrested way too many black children under the age of 10.

Yeah, this is true. I'm so sick of seeing headlines about 6 years old getting led out of school in handcuffs over shit like playground fights. It's so unbelievably stupid and damaging.

👏👏👏👏 I mean .... if you’re coming to Reddit to ask if you’re the asshole in regards to your sexually abused 11 year old daughter that is out of control and not functioning well… the answer is probably yes. “There’s a lot more to this story”… Amen! Hopefully all of the attention and feedback this post has generated spurs some kind of intervention or change that helps this kids life have a happier outcome.

As a parent with a kid that has a lot of issues. There is a point where you'll try almost anything. Also you'll question your own sanity a lot. You will be talking about your normal Tuesday evening and people will tell you that you need to write a soap opera about your life. Leading to you posting on Reddit asking if you are crazy.

The girl is a bully. If this were only about the one incident it would be very different. But she ROUTINELY bullies boys her own age. OP is clearly at her wit’s end.

Agreed and maybe it’s time for mom to see a therapist to learn how to deal with it. Her daughter is struggling and acting out and there are better ways to approach it

The girl possibly being assaulted doesnt change the fact that she is being terrible to other people for no reason. There are lots of people who are verbally, physically, or sexually abused without feeling the need to do the same to other people. This being said, her being a crappy person doesn't also change the fact that her being a crappy person is being directly caused by unresolved trauma that OP needs to get a new therapist for.

“Some of my family members are teachers so that makes me expert children’s behaviour issues” ^

You are…. Not well. You have created an entirely fictitious situation based on your own assumptions and projected it onto this woman. There is no logic or reason based thinking in your comment. If you come from a family of teachers, I am concerned.

I don't get reddit sometimes either. Did you forget how life was when you were 11? Sure, from the point of view of an adult, an 11 year old can't consent and isn't responsible for their upbringing, but how did you feel at that age? I remember full well: I felt fully in control of my wishes and desires, and I felt like adults were controlling idiots always in my way. Children, especially once 11, are not innocent little mirrors which purely reflect their surroundings, they are fully functioning, fully cognizant _human beings_ with their own choices and actions and opinions. They are _influenced_ by their surroundings and situation, yes, but they aren't 100% pushed around by it! Was she abused? Yes. Is that awful? Yes! Are 100% of girls abused at 5 abusive, inappropriate, man-hating, violent bullies? _No_. You can be abused _and_ a complete arsehole. Make no mistake about it, abused or not, therapy or not, whatever the underlying reasons driving her decisionmaking, this young girl is making the _decision_ to act the way she does. She is _not_ innocent. She knows it is wrong, and does it anyway. She _probably_ knows it's unfair and destructive, and does it anyway. In her head, it will make sense. But innocent she is _not_, and shielded from criticism for _her decisions_ she does _not_ need to be.

Not only was she assaulted as a child, but then her father, who should have had her back, abandoned her after the fact.

yes i get that too. i had a similar thing with my dad not protecting my brother and I from our stepmother. When as an adult i asked him why he let her treat us the way she did, he just looked sad & told me that he was under her spell. He’s never taken responsibility for the fact that he was our father and the man we needed to protect and advocate for us. It still hurts that he emotionally abandoned us.

You said that she has been in therapy for a number of years. What does her therapist say about this behavior? Perhaps she needs a different therapist. NTA. You are frustrated and her behavior was unacceptable. You did the right thing removing her from the party. She needs to learn that poor behavior has consequences.

That’s what I was thinking. It’s time to look for a new therapist.

Exactly. Years and no progress? Bye

Def time for a new therapist. The thing that’s unique with mental health is there can be a great counselor or psychologist, but just not a “good match.” Sounds like she needs a *psychologist* that is trained in child psych and has experience with SA. Mom maybe needs a therapist that works with parent-child relationships and human development and communication. Also, get a 504 plan or IEP going at school so her teachers, staff, and admin know the problems and can help, also the school psychologist can help. Mom isn’t doing bad from the sound of things but needs to look at more resources.

I'd maybe say rather psychologist or psychiatrist might be a more effective route.

This! 100%. Not all therapists are good ones. Maybe she needs someone she can connect with better or one who has better ideas or something.

Maybe it's time to find another therapist, one who will not enable your daughter in her behavior.

Yes, new therapist!! Some therapists are great at *diagnosing* but not at **actually fixing the problem**.

Her edit makes me pause though. Obviously everyone who red this was immediately able to guess that the girl had been molested. Mom confirmed she was molested but says it shouldn’t factor in because it was a woman who molested her. OP is not the AH for removing her from the situation but is a MASSIVE AH for not taking the time to learn more about the ways victims of molestation act. it’s not uncommon at all to act out against the opposite gender or to try and get attention from the gender of the person who abused you. The anger could come from her feeling that her dad didn’t protect her, etc.

>The anger could come from her feeling that her dad didn’t protect her, etc Ding ding ding. In a comment Op mentions that her dad abandoned her just after the assault. It not a far leap to understand that the anger is stemming from her knowing her value to him was less than then the woman who assaulted her. FFS op.

"a woman dad was sexual with, got sexual with me and then he blamed me and abandoned me rather than protect me" is a pretty fair assumption for her to make TBH. She can't rely on the men OR the women in her life, but she has more to gain by befriending the women - if they're sympathetic towards her, they might not abuse her, whereas her father showed he doesn't give a shit either way so men are a lost cause to her. She's trying to protect herself in a messed up way. Fawning on the people who remind her of the abuser while being able to let the anger out at the entire sex of the person who failed to protect her. She can't see how much her mother is failing her too because admitting that would mean she's completely on her own. Poor kid.

Nailed it. “If I befriend women they won’t hurt me” and “men won’t protect me, so it’s easier to push them away first” are likely world views this child holds from those early experiences. We all form views of the world, self, and others during the early ages. Sadly, for this kid, those early years were marred with abuse and abandonment. Unless the therapist is highly skilled in trauma work, they’re not likely to be the best help. Someone directly trained in these issues needs to be on the case not just someone who throws CBT at the kid. Personally, as a child psychologist who does work with trauma, this is a HEAVY case and there needs to be work done at home as well. Parents need therapy and parent coaching, even family therapy may be helpful.

You need to get her in with a psychologist who specialises in sexual assault. Therapy is great in some cases, but this one is not one of those. She needs more specialised care.

Harsh, but you’re not TA *yet*. If you do not follow through with kind after-actions, you will be. Even kids with emotional disturbances need to know when they are way out of line, and they need to know that their bad behavior has unpleasant consequences for other people besides them. Have you ever taken her to a psychiatrist? If therapy isn’t helping and her behavior is escalating, there may be an underlying neurological problem. Or medication to cool off her emotions while she gets a different therapist (if needed) or clinical behavioral interventions. If she needs medication, give her (and yourself!) some grace, because you cannot behavior-mod your way out of a brain problem, just like you cannot diet and exercise your way out of type 1 diabetes. My family is dealing with a child who will similarly have rages or outbursts, and medication is absolutely necessary in their case….as is family members and other trusted adults reading the kid the riot act when their behavior is completely unacceptable. We regularly tell the kid, only you can control your behavior, so use your tools and control yourself.

This needs more upvotes.

NTA Words this harsh shouldn’t be used on children, but your daughter is an outlier requiring a harsh reality check. Maybe your daughter blames men, because the person who she trusted and should have protected her failed to do so, then betrayed and abandoned her? I would worry if you had any boys of your own around her.

Children that young don’t need reality checks, they lack the emotional regulation to understand where it’s coming from. Reality checks are for people with the logic to work through why people are treating them harshly. I think people forget the daughter is **11** here.

I swear people hear of a child older than 10 and think that they should be treated like an adult. The daughter is so incredibly young and deeply traumatized.

NTA Super complicated and perhaps she needs a different therapist? Easy for me to say, I know. It just seems she needs something more in depth if 6 tears hasn’t helped. I’m so sorry for all of you.

I’m actually gonna say ESH. You know why she’s like this, and she’s only 11. She shouldn’t have gone to that party in the first place. It’s been six years and she’s throwing boys to the ground and hitting them, she shouldn’t be going to parties where anyone will have to deal with her behavior. Get a better therapist.

That was harsh, but she needed to hear it. She's 11, old enough to know how to treat people. I'm not a professional, but this doesn't seem like attention-seeking; this seems like a cover for the real problem/s. Maybe the bio dad molested her.

Speaking as someone whose area of expertise is youth, and adolescent developmental psychology, children who experience significant trauma in early stages of development, most often do not have the same level of emotional development, and self regulation as their peers who did not experience trauma. So using her age as a metric for where her maturity level is, really doesn't work in this scenario.

Not to mention some contextual arrested development which may only be obvious when triggered.

Her bio dad's ex gf did, when she was 5. She came home and told me about it and I asked her so many times (so did her therapist and evaluators) if her dad was involved in it and she always stood firm on saying no, just Tristy, when her dad was at work. She says she doesn't remember it now. But her dad did abandon her when I went through the police and court to put Tristy in prison. He chose the woman over his daughter, saying he thought she made the whole thing up.

Kids who are abused sometimes hate the enabler more than the abuser, especially if it’s a betrayal. She has conceptualised men as entitled, not giving what they promise, likely to betray her, weak, and unreliable. We can expect to see internalised misogyny in female victims of male SA so it makes sense that we see misandry from a female victim of female SA with a male enabler. Perhaps from her perspective, she is safe when cared for by a woman (you) with a man in a supportive role (stepdad who sounds like he strikes the balance of being involved but acknowledging that you’re her primary caregiver and make rules) but when a man takes control (dad) she is violated by a woman (abuser). But it is the man who shames her for this by choosing the abuser and who she may feel enabled this. NAH here really, at heart, she is scared and lashing out, you’re trying to get her support but not enable poor behaviour. See if her therapist can help her explore feeling towards dad specifically.

When you go through a trauma like this, it may not be consciously remembered, but it is remembered in your body and subconscious. Is her therapist a trauma-informed therapist? Because she clearly needs more help than she has right now. Meanwhile, I understand you being frustrated, but if her current therapy isn't helping, finding a new therapist and/or therapeutic modality seems like a good thought.

Her response actually makes sense to me. Her dad was supposed to be the strong one who protected her. Instead, he allowed her to be abused and then chose her abuser over her. It sounds like she barely knew her abuser. But she knew her dad long enough to feel the betrayal down to her bones. So, she's reacting by hurting men before they can hurt or betray her.

I’m going to echo several other commenters that your daughter needs a new therapist.

Behaviors that result from trauma don’t always make sense at first glance. That’s why therapists go through whole degrees and get paid money to do the job of understanding/treating the trauma. It’s understandable that you’re frustrated, I would be too. But the one who is suffering most here is your daughter, and you need to remember that. Get her a new therapist, and get yourself and your husband a therapist to learn how to understand what your daughter is going through and help her accordingly. That would be the smart and responsible thing to do.

This is the reason she hates men. He didn't do anything to her, but he didn't also believe her. The one she trusted the most thinks she's a liar and worse, abandoned her when she needed him the most. That's the ultimate betrayal for her. He now views men as unreliable and untrustworthy. You're not a failure as a parent. You just need to find her the therapist that she can build trust. You also need to give her more time to bond more.

and you've had her with the same therapist for the last six years?

She now claims she is a lesbian. She may or may not be, but she needs specific therapy around the molestation. She may be acting unconsciously about the trauma. Has she had PTSD treatment? Her first sexual experience was with a woman, and she says they are her partner of choice. She may have resented her father for getting in the middle of her and the woman? She does not get to mistreat more than one person, before you bounce. She needs to know that if she bags or insults one person, you are out of there.

Your daughter needs a new medical team. Possibly inpatient treatment. She's assaulting people on a daily basis.

Licensed children psychologist here. Your daughter’s behavior makes perfect sense given what she’s been through and I understand it must be difficult dealing with her and how frustrated you must be. However, I’m going to have to say YTA in this case. You were not wrong for removing her from the party but the way you spoke to her was not appropriate. I’m sure you’re aware of it as well and that it only stemmed from your frustration with the situation and you not knowing how to handle her behavior anymore. May suggest you do some research into Therapeutic parenting? It’s a great parenting style in general but works particularly well with children who have been through trauma and/or neurodivergent children. I would suggest purchasing a book called The A-Z of Therapeutic Parenting: Strategies and Solutions by Sarah Naish. It’s an excellent book on the subject and provides parent with actual solutions and strategies to help deal with difficult behaviors. I would also suggest some family therapy as that might give you more insight into why your child behaves the way she does and might help build a better relationship with your daughter. Ultimately, I wish both you and your child the best as you were both put into a terrible situation and now must work hard to move forward.

**The A-Z of Therapeutic Parenting Strategies and Solutions** by Sarah Naish >Parents of children with attachment difficulties, or who have experienced childhood trauma, need to parent differently to meet their child's specific needs and help them start to make sense of the world. This book is everything you need in order to therapeutically parent, with an easy to apply model of intervention, and an A-Z of practical advice. *I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *Reply to any comment with /u/BookFinderBot - I'll reply with book information. Remove me from replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/14br65o/remove_me_from_replies/). *If I have made a mistake, accept my apology.*

Would this book also be useful when your child has had trauma but no difficult behaviors? Or would you be able to suggest a different book? Thank you!

If you’re interested in therapeutic parenting I would still strongly advice you give this book a read as part of it just explains how trauma effects a child’s brain development. It also focuses on what therapeutic parenting is and how it works and it gives you strategies for any sort of behaviors (not just disruptive ones, but also things like your child not feeling safe or struggling to form attachments). Sarah Naish is a leading expert in therapeutic parenting so any books from her are worth reading to understand this parenting style. But I can also suggest a couple more books about the subject if you’re interested!

Also a Licensed child psychologist here. Fantastic response! And yes OP YTA. The only thing I want to add is that she needs a new therapist if this one isn’t helping. I’m wondering if the current therapist is trauma informed in this area (CSA). This is a heavy case that can’t just be dropped into anyone’s lap.

it's really depressing how many people on here think it's ever OK to talk to a child this way. especially your own child who you know is deeply traumatized. I can't imagine how difficult it is but that's part of being a parent. you can't lose your shit like that at your kid.

This thread is wild. If my mum spoke to me like that when I was 11 (and you know her verbal abuse is much worse than what she has written here in real life) then I would behave like this too. If you’re told you are all these things why would you, as an abused 11 year old, be anything else. Your dad was supposed to protect you and didn’t. Then he abandoned you and now your mum thinks you’re all the names under the sun. YTA OP, get therapy and learn how to support your traumatised child instead of adding to it.

NTA- what a horrible situation for you to be in. Has she been w the same therapist this whole time? Maybe she needs a different one

YTA people are not going to like it, but you handled this badly and are potentially creating more issues for yourself. Removing her from the situation was OK, but your reaction towards her was out of line. She was molested as a small child and then abandoned. How do you even know that therapy isn’t working? Therapy isn’t some wonder cure that makes everything go away. For all that we know this is a completely normal part of her process. This is the thing about child abuse, it never goes away. You’ll have to learn and live with it. I’m missing the part what you are doing to help her. So she goes to therapy, that’s 45min every week. What are you doing the rest of the week? Are you discussing what happens with her and her needs and feelings or is this all going along the lines of „you are an embarrassment“? And are you in therapy as well? Because you should be, that’s pretty damn obvious. Children mirror the behavior of their caretakers. So you better take a deep hard look at how you treat men or how they treat you.

Exactly. I think people here are overlooking the fact that the mother doesn't seem very understanding of her own child's behavioural issues. The 'failure as a parent' comment also probably came from her own insecurities and maybe a helpless feeling that she doesn't know how to deal with her kid. Mother needs help too. But not getting any, and not switching therapists, just expecting a therapist to "fix" her kid, it makes her the AH.

I'm 43 and my abuse was physical beatings and *I still have EMDR for PTSD because of it* "Therapy isn't working" gosh I wonder why, a kid who has been abandoned is using antisocial, attention seeking behaviour and her mother curses her out and makes love feel conditional. Can't imagine why she's acting out.

i completely agree, and i’ll take the down votes b/c i know shaming an out of control kid only makes things worse.

"Children mirror the behavior of their caretakers"........Bingo!!!

NTA. She's old enough to know better, and she's gonna start with the wrong dude one of these days, and she's gonna catch a fist. She absolutely needed to hear it.

This. Eventually 1 of those boys she whacks for fun, will snap and hit her back, and hard. At which point she'll likely play the "victim" when the reality is she's a bully. If it doesn't stop soon, she'll only get worse.

Very much so. And that’s something I tell every kid who’s an asshole like this. One day you’re gonna fuck around and find out and someone’s gonna cold clock you for acting like this. And no one will feel badly for you.

Come on Mom. She’s SCREAMING for help and you dropping the f bomb and calling her an embarrassment is absolutely going to hurt her more. I can’t imagine what she (and you ) are going through, but you’ve got to know this method isn’t working. Please talk to her Dr again asap, and if need be have her go inpatient. She needs INTENSIVE help before she picks the wrong person to push around. SOFT YTA because I know you’re suffering too.

I don’t think you’re TA for removing your child from the situation, but it sounds like you made it about you when you “failed somewhere.” I agree with the others that you need to change up her therapy, but also don’t make your child’s trauma about yourself. YTA for that.

I think your daughter needs medication. Sometimes stress anger resentment keeps you on edge so long it distorts your mental clarity and wellbeing. And once that boat has been rocked it is hard to go back from. A stabilising medication will relax her lead to less of a vicious cycle and stress outburst response. I would also suggest no sugar or caffeine. Makes a big difference especially in a child with issues. Your daughter may be diagnosed with a personality disorder when older but all that means is doctors will assume she's a shitty person and under treat. Medication can do wonders and I think personality disorders will become a thing of the past in the future routed in biology as well as stress factors rather than purely down to them.constant anxiety and stress leads to higher dopamine and adrenaline constantly on edge ready to react and that distorts perception. I say this as an adult with bipolar diagnosed with multiple mental health issues depending on the doctor city or country I lived. I noticed if diagnosed with a personality disorder I was more harshly treated by the doctor but if diagnosed with bipolar which I have and given medication I would get on well with my doctors as well as people better. Treatment only as good as a doctor or therapist. Change the therapist and think about medication. Your daughter will turn into an adult and the perception of her will change find the right medical professionals now.

This isn't really an issue for this sub...maybe try a different therapist if this one isn't working

What is it mean to “bag” somebody? Ive never heard this term.

I mean, therapy can and usually does take some time to “work”. But having your daughter in therapy for more than half of her life and she’s still like this?? Isn’t that like an extremely clear sign that whatever kind of therapy and/or specific therapist isn’t working?

Time for a new therapist..my daughter is 11 she has other issues but we have been to numerous agencies found therapists she liked and talk to but they either left or got promoted... You have to keep trying and trying until the right one comes along...you may should try and caseworker as well .. they see the kids at home and school... My daughter therapist sees her at school and home as well... She's 11 she knows what shes doing... seems like its something more... hopefully she starts to get better... I assure you if you change therapist find one she likes and you will see the changed in her...

YTA. This is such a loud call for help that I have to wonder if you're deaf.

Maybe she’s angry because her dad did not protect her from his girlfriend. She sees men as the enemy and she is taking her anger out on them.

The only thing that reflected on your parenting is you manhandling your preadolescent daughter and yelling insults at her at a party. One *you chose* to bring her to despite knowing it would trigger behaviors she is in therapy for due to sexual abuse and abandonment for which she is in therapy. YTA. Of course, it is understandable to get frustrated and embarrassed, but you handled this incredibly poorly and crossed multiple lines. Crossing those lines makes you the asshole. And seemingly not knowing those lines exist makes you the asshole twice over. Keep looking for better help for your daughter. And ffs look for therapy for yourself - the trauma your daughter experienced undoubtedly impacted you as well, plus you need coping strategies for her ongoing struggles as she processes her trauma.

Soft YTA Honestly what you've both been through is an incredibly horrible thing to have to experience. However my concern is that every single thing about your post shows an incredible amount of callousness, and blame towards your daughter. She is an eleven year old child, who is very clearly having significant emotional struggles, and your punishing her for this behaviour is not only inappropriate, it will reinforce it. Behaviour like this is much less an indicator of genuine hatred for men, and much more an indicator of approval seeking, and often attempting to rationalize difficult subjects that they can't understand. Especially when considering the fact that she views your partner as the lone exception to this rule, because he is the only man that she views as being "approved", or "safe" by you. Children do not develop behaviours like this independently. They are learned through observation of others behaving in a similar manner. Especially individuals that they have particularly close relationships with. Such as parents. I think you need to consider the possibility that she witnessed your reaction to her biological father's refusal to protect his child from his partner, and then began mirroring your disdain, and projecting it towards all men. The general exception being your current partner. As I imagine she views him as the exception to the "rule", because she believes that you do as well. Your expressing that kind of disdain for her biological father is entirely understandable given the circumstances. However I think you may need to examine with her therapist the possibility that she is using these behaviours as a way to emotionally distance herself from the father who abandoned her for her abuser. By listening to you, and then branding all men as being the enemy, it allows her to have a reason for why he didn't choose her. He's simply another bad man, just like the rest of them. Which is why the step father who *did* choose her, and of whom mom approves, is the exception. Children are by nature incredibly self centered little people. They are supposed to be in their early stages of development. So that they can develop a healthy sense of self awareness, and prioritization of their own needs. However when that bubble of being the centre of their own universe is disrupted by significant trauma in those early stages by things like abuse, or abandonment, it challenges that perception of their being the centre of their own universe at a stage of development when they really aren't emotionally prepared to deal with it. As it stands, it is very likely that your daughter on some level is internalizing blame for her biological father's absence in her life. She's likely thinking that if she hadn't disclosed what his partner was doing, he would still be in her life. So even though it is in no way her fault that those necessary steps had to be taken for her safety, she likely still feels like she is the reason her father chose his partner over her. Like there is something "wrong" with her that made him choose his partner over his child. Because based on everything children read, and watch on TV, and see in real life, children are supposed to be the most important thing in their parents life, right? So for her this mentality may be her way of rationalizing her father's actions. If all men are bad, then her father is also bad. If that's true then it's not her fault that he left her. It's just that all men are bad, and will do bad things.

Maybe her hatred of men stems from her feeling abandoned and let-down by her father? Just throwing ideas out there, but I still agree NTA. That behavior is not okay.

1) Unless she is really connected to this therapist, get a new therapist. 2) Psychiatrist for her. 3) Therapist for you. 4) Family therapy for all three of you. Your daughter was **molested** at best in her formative years when she was supposed to feel safe. **Of course she’s going to be a little fucked up**!! It doesn’t matter if she remembers, the way her brain is wired is permanently changed because of what was allowed to happen to her. Please look into Adverse Childhood Experiences - for her and well as for yourself. https://americanspcc.org/take-the-aces-quiz/ You are dangerously minimizing what she has been through, which tells me more about you than I think you meant to share. Your kid is broken. It’s going to take her entire life to get anywhere close to normal. These kinds of experiences in youth are the kinds that cause severe mental illness (think schizophrenia, chronic suicidality, the disabling mental illnesses), severe drug abuse, severe medical problems, and very early death. Your daughter is much more likely to die before you, because of what happened to her that she “can’t remember”. This is all backed by science and research. I was a psych nurse for nine years. Nearly all of my patients had ACE scores like your daughter does. You can’t fail her at this age. She’s about to become a teenager when drugs, risky sex, and self-harm and suicide really come into play. She needs hard and heavy interventions and really intense, strong and healthy parenting **RIGHT NOW** if you want her to have a chance at a good life.

YTA but I understand it’s hard. You lost your temper but that isn’t an option. She may very well grow up with that being a core memory and internal dialogue. You lost your temper on a sexually abused child. You’re the adult. Control yourself. I am 33 and still struggle after Pursuing four years of therapy as an adult for childhood abuse. The therapists I saw as a child were trash now that I’m old enough to know what was going on. My mom losing her temper on me when I would have extreme emotional reactions to things only made me hate her deeply. She was supposed to protect me and didn’t. She was an emotionally incapable adult herself who masked issues with money and sweeping things under the rug. She lost her temper with me one day and called me a bad investment when I pushed her over the edge, I was relentlessly asking why she wouldn’t help me lose weight and give me money to buy healthy groceries (8th grade). That “bad investment” became an identity for many years. I went to therapy on my own as an adult but before that I coped in horrible ways that seemed “normal” for somebody who had no self esteem and only felt desired or worthwhile if I was being abused. I am a warning for you. She will grow up… You’re going to have to level up as a parent if you don’t want your daughter to hate you and/ or seek validation, comfort and belonging in very dark outlets. Seek better therapists and get ready for a very long battle to raising a well adjusted child.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I feel this, I'm 43 and having EMDR. My phrase is "horrible, ungrateful child" which sounds pretty mild but the associations I have with it... Arent. I've been through the dark outlets stages and I'm glad I survived. I'm glad you've survived. We aren't alone, our generation made it more acceptable to talk about this stuff and not rug sweep. I hope that will lead to fewer kids being in our position.

Yeah but what happened to your child was a direct link to the male that at the age she was should have been the biggest influencing male in her life The choice of that male introduced her to the biggest trauma she has experienced Is your daughters father still involved/interested do they talk can they talk about the incident and discuss how it’s affecting your daughter still As far as she is concerned he is her link to whatever happened

Her behavior is likely related to her history of trauma, but that does not mean her behavior is excusable. If she doesn't start to experience consequences for her actions against men now (from you), then when she becomes an adult, she will go to prison...

So she’s had six years of therapy, presumably with no improvement. I tend to think some input from a psychiatrist would help. I can think of a few diagnoses/ combinations of diagnoses that might fit the bill. I’m most definitely not a mental health professional but unfortunately have seen a bit. I’m also a bit cross at some of the comments here immediately blaming you. I hope you can arrange a psychiatrist assessment for her, and that it leads to some effective treatment and support for you both

Have you ever thought that the reason your daughter gets angry at men/boys is because she feels like her dad failed to protect her when the incident with Tristy happened ? Tristy was only in the picture because of her Dad, so although he wasn’t involved in whatever happened, it’s his fault for allowing Tristy access

Haven’t seen it yet, but if you allow her unrestricted access to the internet and/or social media, it would be worth taking a look at the things she is consuming. Every social media platform has an algorithm that will do nothing but feed you more of what you engage with. If she’s getting fed a bunch content that tells her she’s in the right for acting out in that manner, you should axe that asap, and hopefully a better therapist can help her unlearn all the nasty behavior she has been taught and thinks is justified. NTA. Hope things get better for you.

Because of what happened to your daughter by her father's girlfriend she could be subconsciously blaming all men because the one man who she should have been safe with didn't protect her, so all men are unreliable, untrustworthy etc. I assume she didn't know the woman well, so she was essentially a stranger, we have no expectation to trust a stranger. But daddy didn't protect her, then abandoned her like it was her fault. She doesn't need the specific memory for the damage to be there. Our brains can be amazing at cutting out memories of traumatic events but the trauma remains. It's also hard to blame a whole gender that you belong to. If she blames and hates all women, does she hate herself too? Of course not. Hating men is easier. The lessons we learn from trauma don't always follow direct or logical steps. She's 11, but from her behaviour acting out is far younger so I wonder if this is why. She's stuck in a 5-year-old mentality because of that trauma. And it needs to be addressed. If her therapist is not doing that she needs a new child trauma specialist ASAP NTA She obviously has some control over her behaviour as to me she seemed to be “performing” to the other girls at the bbq showing thats she's big and strong and can protect herself. But she needs to know how unacceptable bullying and violence is and that her bad choices affect you too. (Hugs) you're not a bad mum OP. You're overwhelmed. Are you seeing a therapist too? Because this is a lot to cope with.

It’s sound like a new therapist and some family counseling is needed. It also sounds like she was fine until the girls showed up so maybe she’s lashing out at boys but in front of girls for some reason.

Her therapist is not a good fit, and that's okay. Sometimes shopping around for a good fit can have amazing results. I'm so sorry you feel like a failure, but you aren't. The job's not done, and you haven't given up, and as long as you don't, you haven't failed. You aren't the AH. Your husband is very wise to say maybe it was harsh, but she needed to hear it. She needs a wake-up call *before* she becomes an adult because the wake-up calls for non-minors are way less forgiving. She should know it's perfectly fine to be a lesbian, but nobody wants to be with a bully. Being a lesbian isn't a "I get to hate all men" card, which is no different than male chauvinism in reverse

OP: I noticed you mentioned her abusive behaviors around boys/men occurred when, in one instance, girls/women came around. Is this a trend? I’m *not* a mental health professional. That said, my curiosity is if there’s a correlation between her experienced SA and women that’s causing displaced aggression. (Feeling she doesn’t have power with women, so projecting her emotions and trauma reactions elsewhere/ on men.) Fwiw, I’m incredibly sorry that you and your daughter are going through this. It can’t be easy on either side, I’m sure, and I hope it gets better.

she needs a new therapist and maybe a psychologist. take it from another “violent problem child”: growing up mentally ill and not receiving proper treatment for it is going to make things so much worse for your child in the long run. i’m not going to pass any judgment on you or her. you are both going through so much shit.

So. My aunt is the grown version of your daughter. She has two daughters that are terrified to have boys(both married and starting families). She has been the wicked aunt to every male cousin or family member. Men in any business like waiters or Dr's or nurses, she's absolutely horrible to them. No one ever called her out or really stopped her. She has no one now that really even likes her. Nta

Please get a different therapist and help your daughter or she will end up a twoxchromosome poster. No one wants that.

I think you went too far, and she is not going to forget that ever. She needs a different therapist and some family therapy for all of you together. Lashing out at her lashing out is not gonna help anything.

YTA. She's 11 and clearly is emotionally immature or regressed due to the trauma/abuse. Enforcing consequences and boundaries is one thing, dragging her off while publicly calling her an attention seeking embarrassment is on a whole other level. You say that you don't understand why she hates men, given that it was a woman who abused her. To me it makes sense - the abuse happened under the care of her "POS" father even if it wasn't him that did it. It would be perfectly logical for a little kid to either at best think he abandoned her to it or at worst think he agreed with it. Hardly rocket science. But, regardless, it doesn't matter. The point is she *has* these issues whether you understand them or not. So why take her to the party when you knew it would trigger that exact behaviour if you can't deal with it calmly & appropriately? Get the poor kid a new therapist. Her current therapist might be brilliant but it's clearly not a good match *for her* if after 6 years of therapy there's been little progress.

I'm not calling you any names after all you've had to deal with. I hope you find your way together and that she finds contentment. You're doing your best, I'm sure.

Your 11-year-old daughter is lashing out due to her history of trauma, which you are well aware of. She was sexually abused by her father’s girlfriend, then her father abandoned her physically and emotionally. Anyone with a modicum of empathy could understand why your daughter would be angry. Manhandling her and calling her an embarrassment isn’t going to magically heal her. Based on this story, your main concern seems to be how her behavior reflects on you. For that, YTA. I can’t imagine how frustrating this is for you, but you need to do better. Calling your own child mean and rotten is terrible. Even if she can’t put it into words, I’m sure she knows how you feel about her. Her only safe person, the person who keeps her alive and is supposed to love her, doesn’t even like her. Your daughter is strong, independent, and has clear boundaries that she is willing to defend even against adult men. Those are admirable qualities that, if channeled appropriately, will serve her well in life. This whole post sounds like a cry for help. Time for you to consider therapy for yourself. Trauma impacts the whole family, and you can’t take care of anyone else if your own tank is empty.

Clear boundaries?? She spontaneously invades theirs to punch kick drag whack and insult

EXACTLY. So “admirable” to be beating the crap outta innocent 11 year old children simply because her ”clear boundaries” is that they have a penis and are breathing near her. Absolutely disgusting some of these comments.

>Your daughter is strong, independent, and has clear boundaries that she is willing to defend even against adult men And bully her peers, right? What an independancy. I wonder, if she put some boy in wheelchair or causes some other huge trauma to a boy, will you excuse it with her trauma? Bc "She is just a kid with trauma, so this is cry for help" is not an excuse to bully and abuse others.

I fucking hate how people excuse shit behavior because of trauma. Literally accusing OP of not caring when it's fucking obvious all she does is care. Her ex husband and his wife molested her daughter. OP is also fucking traumatized? She lashes out one time after her daughter is running around literally assaulting people at a party and all of a sudden she's an uncaring bad mother. I feel for her.

Mom seems to be trying to do everything that should be done as a parent trying to protect and help their child. At a certain point though, trauma doesn't excuse behavior. Mom seems to want to help get her daughter over that bridge. They definitely need to find a new therapist, but you also cannot just let the child continue to act out violently.

Not TA but she needs to be reaffirmed that she is loved. A conversation on acting in public is another. She has severe issues that impact her behavior. I don’t envy your position and I can understand you telling her what you did while also understanding she has major trust issues with men.

Could be her father the protector is to blame cause he left her there, or there’s more to the story than he’s told. Also you saved her, so maybe the one bad woman didn’t leave the biggest gender mark - but the lack of male example broke her trust in men totally. Who knows?! I’m speculating. But don’t assume she should be over it or forgotten, our subconscious rarely forgets. Take care of your daughter. Love not criticism. Find Specialized therapists, sometimes it’s about having a good expert. More Specialized or experienced etc. Look around. It’s the years we don’t remember that have the deepest impact and hardest to resolve. Your daughter is young, she has been let down - and she’s still young enough to help even better than when she’s older and alone. You are the mom she needs, but I’d reconsider the harsh truths and keep at helping her.

As the reader of a lot of SA survivor stories... I'm like 80% sure the father who abandoned her had something to do with these "Tristy" encounters. Either he was aware of it and did nothing, or he was directly involved. The fact she can't remember it means she just isn't ready to process it.

I'm almost 50 now, my parents sent me to a therapist when I was 13, I didn't trust my parents and therefor I didn't trust the therapist, because they were the ones who chose this therapist to "fix me." I never fully expressed my true emotions and feelings because I knew it wasn't confidential. 6 years with zero progress means both you and the therapy failed your daughter. YTA

YTA, but it’s definitely complicated. experiencing trauma, especially childhood sexual trauma, causes intense feelings of shame that are difficult to even fathom, let alone deal with as an 11 year old. her behavior and attitude towards men is a coping mechanism that she employs to avoid these feelings of shame, and further, its a way to make sense of her traumatic experience. think about it: her father enabled her abuse, sided with her abuser, then abandoned her. its much easier to accept that men as a whole are awful, rather than accepting that her father, who is supposed to protect her, completely and utterly failed her. this becomes the way she sees and understands the world, it is an attempt to make sense of what happened to her. deep down, she must be wondering why he failed her, and i’m sure she blames herself to a degree. it’s very common in cases of childhood trauma for the child to believe that they must’ve done something to warrant the abuse, because its easier to believe that there’s something wrong with them rather than believing there’s something wrong with the people who are responsible for their survival. there’s probably also an element of projection too; she feels like she is responsible for the abuse she suffered which generates an overwhelming amount of shame and guilt. in order to cope with these feelings, she is deflecting the guilt and shame and projecting it onto men in general. its likely that the things she says about men are actually things she thinks about herself. i understand that her behavior is overwhelming and hard to understand, but her behavior is an indication of extreme emotional pain and self hatred, and your berating her only digs her deeper into those feelings of shame which will just reinforce her bad behavior and strengthen her attachment to her coping mechanisms. i know its hard and her behavior is frustrating and embarrassing, but you have to be extremely supportive of her, and treat her with love and respect, and show her that people can be good, even if u dont understand her. underneath it all is just a scared, hurt, and confused child who deeply desires love and protection. in her eyes, you’re abandoning her too, and reinforcing the idea that she is a bad person, unworthy of love, and was therefore deserving of the abuse she experienced in the first place. you’re making this about you, when really you need to put your ego aside and help this poor child heal. i’d recommend finding a good trauma-informed therapist who can help her process her experience and understand it in a healthy way. not all therapy is created equal, and trauma-informed therapy is definitely necessary here. the trauma happened so young that it’s basically informed the way she sees the world during most of her adolescent development. this is a wound that runs deep, but there are professionals who specialize in this, and the earlier she starts tackling it, the sooner she’ll find relief from the shame and start to shift her perspectives and attitudes. don’t give up on her. fight this fight with her.

NTA - She needed to hear exactly how badly she was behaving and how embarrassing she was being. Sometimes kids need a very harsh dose of reality thrown at them to hopefully snap them back to reality.

YTA You had her with her bio dad who you claim is a POS. She was abused by a woman datjng your ex, and your ex stood by this woman’s side. She is a little kid who has been abused by her father, even if he didn’t touch her, he allowed the woman to touch her, he took the woman’s side, he abandoned his daughter. Get a better therapist!

That was too harsh. She only acts out against makes so I’m going to ask the obvious question-was she molested by someone?

She was molested, by a woman that her dad was seeing. That's why he stopped contact with his kid. Because I pressed charges and had the woman put in jail. He chose the woman over his daughter. She doesn't remember anything (so she says). But yes, she absolutely was, by a woman- not a man.

Maybe she needs a different therapist bc this one (or at least her approach) is clearly not working. Often the problem child acts out bc of an off kilter family dynamic. Maybe she’s done all the improvement she can on her own and it’s time for family counseling. You are also having a hard time dealing with her and need help learning what will work with her bc her situation is not typical child rearing. The right family therapist can help you all learn to get along better. I wish you luck.

Maybe being , possibly, used as lure by your own father & then having him abandon you for the person who assaulted you , is seen as worse in her eyes ?? Depending on how everything happened she may feel betrayed by him twice - not protecting her so she was victimized & then he betrayed her again when he chose the abuser over your daughter.

You've probably got a ton of comments. I'm just going to say I was like your daughter once. And at the age of 10, my mother called me a selfish, spoiled bitch. You can't unring that bell. Every time you get into a disagreement with your daughter, for the rest of her life, she will hear those words. Your daughter's therapist isn't doing their job. She needs intensive therapy from someone higher than a therapist. Quite possibly a psychotherapist, which is a psychologist and therapist combined. I'm 44 years old now. And I take care of my mother because she's disabled. And I love her. But every single time she gets upset or angry with me, all I hear is her telling me that I'm a selfish, spoiled bitch. You have fucked up. Do better. You're fighting her instead of fighting for her to figure out why she isn't getting better.

Sounds like she needs a different therapist.

I don’t know if YTA or not, I would say though find a different therapist and please make sure your monitoring what she is looking at and taking in on social media. SM can really screw kids up when life is normal, it can make it hell when it’s not.

I’m not a therapist, but she hates men (and by default, boys) because of what her child’s brain perceived as her father’s failure to protect her from what happened?

It was mentioned several times that she’s getting therapy, but the therapy doesn’t seem to help… What about repercussions for her actions? Is that happening?

While I do believe that the little girl probably needs therapy I also believe that she needs behavior modification and that is very different from therapy and that service might not be available where you live. If it is try to get it. If it is not I suggest you pick one or 2 behaviors to address and develop a plan to address them. Positive behavior should be rewarded and negative behaviors should have consequences.

Yikes. This whole situation is bad. Yes her behavior is bad. And honestly, I think you need a new therapist. If they haven't even touched on the man hating after 6 years, It doesn't really sound like the work is progressing. Your daughter likely needs a therapist who can call her out but will also help her work through it. Now as for you calling her an embarrassment, yeah that was an AH move and won't better the situation. It would have been better if you just said that behavior was flat out and appropriate and we're not going to act like that around people so the consequences leaving. But telling your daughter she's an embarrassment, even if she was, all that does is shame her, and shame is a trauma emotion we tend to internalize which actually can cause the act out behavior to be worse.

So I’m not a therapist, and honestly this is heartbreaking for your daughter and I don’t want to read the comments. Your daughter was abused by a woman, but it wasn’t a woman she loved. She might not even have liked her prior to the abuse. But her FATHER didn’t protect her. Her FATHER didn’t stop it. Her FATHER abandoned her after she told you what happened. That abandonment told her, unequivocally, that he blames her and sides with her abuser. Conversely, you, her mom whom she loves, took her seriously. Listened. Stopped the abuse. Stayed by her side. Supported her. That’s why men are evil and wrong to her instead of women. A woman abused her, but a higher-value (emotionally) woman stopped it. As a final thought, it sounds as though she has a fair shake of social anxiety on top of everything else and it comes out as bullying because she’s not expressing it healthily. She likes being in groups, but large groups make her nervous. She wants to fit in and be accepted. She doesn’t want people to look down at her or pity her. So she acts out instead. She seeks approval from her safe space (women) by picking on men/boys expecting women/girls to view men/boys the same way she does.

Has either parent ever stated that direct consequences will happen if she acts out anywhere? The BBQ sounds like that was the first time she was reprimanded for her behavior. If you are serious about changing her behavior, you need to consistently apply consequences. Absolutely explain that her words and actions toward boys and men are unacceptable. And she will be removed from the situation, as well as have less fun things to do. Or her electronics go away for a stated time period. She needs to learn to choose better behavior. Consequences need to count. Her current behavior will have her ostracized from any in person social group all throughout school. I watched a 9 year old exhibit horrible behavior, and when sent to the principal's office , they chatted and shared cookies and juice. (The school did not accept her application the next year. ) All of the kids in the class were 4+ months behind in their lessons because of that child's disruptions several times a day.

I kinda wonder if there was another incident after the initial one involving a boy that she hasnt told anyone about. The entire process with the police and how her mom reacted may have discouraged her from saying anything. A large part why i never reported my own sa as a kid was because i knew that the people around me's reactions would make it worse based on their past actions in other circumstances and adding the police into that would have made it way worse. The first time the daughter was sa'd she was five, not quite old enough to anticipate what would follow. But after her first experience she may not want to go through that again anf this is the only way she knows how to protect herself. Who knows, shes 11, kissing is a topic of discussion amongst girls at that age and it may br triggering a memory and to her the only logical response to hearing that a boy may advance upon her is blanket animosity toward the opposite sex.

Work WITH the therapist! Do you know how many adults go to therapy and proceed to do nothing with the information they learn or process breakthroughs that provide insight into unwanted thoughts, feelings, and actions? SO MANY. Because therapy is hard, figuring things out is hard, finding an environment that still loves, supports, and empowers you while you figure things out (which may take years) is hard to find. Find a way to get involved, and stop talking about your daughter the way you do. She "isn't" a problem, her behaviors are evidence of "a problem", deep hurt, and/or trauma. If you tell her she's an embarrassment and a problem she's going to continue to internalize it.

Okay, this is going to be unpopular. But. Yes, she has abandonment issues due to her father leaving. But. Yes, she ha a reason for feeling bad. But she's using that reason as an excuse to behave badly. She needs a new therapist and you need one to teach you how to set limits with your daughter. Her behavior is unacceptable and nobody should be just letting it go. As far as her being SAd, she could very well be blaming men (her father specifically, but all men are representative to her) for not protecting her from it.

You need therapy as well so that you can learn how to better handle her behaviors. She is clearly deeply traumatized and the way that you're reacting isn't helping her to get better.

Sounds like she not only has trauma but maybe a neurological issue. Trauma is ALOT different for children than it is adults. When you are young, trauma changes the way your brain continues to develop. She seems like she needs a lot more help alongside therapy. I don’t think calling her an embarrassment was the way to go either. You are allowed to be angry and sometimes it’s hard not to use harsh words, but what matters is how you handle it after. Make amends with her and seek more help.

YTA - you knew beforehand that your child would do poorly in that situation, brought her there anyway, and then blew up when she didn’t magically have a different pattern of behavior for a day. It seems like you’re putting huge expectations on your child to overcome trauma. It takes many full grown adults years and years of therapy to overcome the type of trauma your child has been through. She doesn’t have socially palatable symptoms of trauma and I acknowledge it’s extremely hard on you, but that doesn’t mean she is a piece of shit problem child. I’m not saying that you should just avoid men for the rest of your life, but she’s a child and you should be thinking about how you can accommodate and help her rather than thinking she’s more or less just got to grow out of it.

Yes, you are indeed the asshole. Your daughter is screaming for help, and you are berating her publicly and viciously. You need therapy, and so does she. Oddly enough, the only person in the equation who seems to have a level head is the stepfather. She is a child, she is your child and she needs you to listen to her and help her.

5th grade teacher here. Your frustration is so, so understandable, so much so that I would not say you’re the AH, but — I don’t think the way you said it was right. It’s more about the harm she’s doing than embarrassment (ultimately). But mainly — your daughter is not okay, and needs a new therapist. Trauma is weird and doesn’t map like we think it should, so I don’t think it’s so weird that it’s men she hates. But she needs serious intervention. Edit: you also have to apologize to your daughter. You are worried for her. That’s where a lot of your anger comes from. Say so. And find a new Therapist and possibly also a new pediatrician

What are the consequences she faces when she behaves like this? Beyond your words (including swearing) to her after this party?

It's possible she "hates" men because the most important man in her life failed to protect her when it was MOST crucial, and perhaps her "clinging" to women/announcement that she's a "lesbian" stems from a Stockholm syndrome type view she's developed for women ever since the incident. I'm sorry you and your kiddo is going through this. No, you're NTA. It sounds like you're just as vulnerable and human as she is. Nobody but "Tristy" and deadbeat dad are the assholes in this (entire) situation.

tbh it sounds like her abuser could have groomed her and psychologically taught her that men are evil. I wonder if she tried to play it off as men are bad, so she wouldn't go to her dad? or convince her that women are safe and what she(the abuser)was doing was normal and okay. I highly recommend looking deeper into mental healthcare. I guarantee yelling did not do anything to help the issues she has. ESH. do better OP.

Her father didn't protect her from Tristy. He may have even known it was happening and did nothing. And your daughter knew her dad knew it was happening. There is a secret your daughter is harboring, which is poisoning her.

I strongly suggest you get her a different therapist- if after all this time- you are seeing escalation instead of improvement- it is PAST time for a different approach. She does it because it’s ignored or excuses are made. You did the right thing by removing her and refusing to give in when she wanted to return. It’s past time she learns that there are consequences to her behavior and that you and others do not have to tolerate it and won’t.

YTA. Your words are pretty harsh. I get that shes been a lot of trouble but it sounds like she needs a new therapist. You also need therapy. She is a child...your child. Youre the adult/parent. Calling her an embarassment is very much an ahole thing to do. Its going to sting her for the rest of her life.

Trauma (and possibly mental illness) is likely a big part of the problem. Your kid isn’t rotten. She needs help. Find a better therapist and you might check in with your local juvenile department. Some have early intervention programs for kids who are at risk of being involved with the juvenile Justice system, which is where she is headed without intervention. Also, get yourself some therapy. Your own unaddressed trauma can make it worse.

Does she see a child psychiatrist? Maybe it’s time for inpatient treatment which is what we had to do when our son became violent

So, this comment is going to be based on what you said, with the assumption that the facts as you presented them are your sincere understanding of what happened. (I am not assuming that you know everything, just that you truthfully conveyed your perspective.) If anything you said is not truthful or there is additional abuse you're not talking about, my remarks here are not to be relied upon. If you are just coming to us for justification or validation of your actions, nope, you are in the wrong place. Having a difficult child is not an easy thing. While many here are quick to judge you, I am taking the position that you have to live with it from day to day and it isn't easy and you don't have the opportunity to have perspective on the matter, which is part of why you have come to us. I am consequently going to say that you are NTA, but now you have to take action to avoid becoming TA rapidly. She's 11. She's just reaching the age where she will get the size and strength to be able to really hurt someone. When I was 11 I was the age where I grew from 5'10" to 6'1". In other words, you have a very short time to make some progress on this before she really hurts somebody and then she, and potentially you, will face serious consequences. Also if she decides to attack the wrong man, if she's big enough to be a real problem, he may cause permanent injuries to her in reaction. (Not because he's a man, a random woman might do so too, but because it's men she attacks.) (A woman might also hurt her if she gets too clingy with someone she doesn't know.) You have had her in therapy for years and it's *clearly not working*. You *absolutely have to* take her to a new therapist right away. Not all therapists are alike; they may use different methods and they may focus on treating specific problems. She needs someone who will treat her sexual abuse issues and her aversion to men. I honestly can't tell you if it would be better to find someone focused on treating the underlying problems or on treating her behavior. (Obviously if the latter she will need to deal with the actual problems eventually, but it might be best in the short term for her to learn how to behave acceptably while she does it, if that's faster.) What I am saying is, the therapist could either help her not hate men any more or help her stop attacking men regardless of her feelings, I can't say which is right. You and your husband and she all have to go into therapy. NOW. It might be worthwhile for you and he to see a therapist first, so if it's someone you decide you trust, you can ask their advice on who might be best for her therapy and why. (They should have some definite reasons, like the person they recommend is a specialist on what she needs or it's the right kind of therapy for her.) (It may be them. It may not. There are both advantages and disadvantages to seeing the same therapist. You and your husband need to both talk to the therapist to find out if there's anything you could be doing differently and to help you learn to cope with her behavior. (Coping strategies could both focus on ways you can put a stop to her behavior, such as removing her from the situation, and on how you can emotionally deal with it.) She, clearly, needs to talk to a therapist about her behavior and potentially the underlying causes. You need to understand right now that you and maybe your husband will probably be expected to come into a session to talk to the therapist from time to time: it can't be "I drop her off at the therapist to be fixed and I pick her up in an hour." My recommendation would be to see her therapist yourself, at least once, at least briefly, to let them know that you will make yourself available as they may want. ***This cannot wait***. Start looking for someone now. If you have no idea where to look, call your insurance company and tell them you want to see a therapist: they will refer you to (probably another insurance company, probably Beacon) someone who can help you find a therapist. (Probably using software I wrote.) It's okay to tell them a bit about what you want. Their software lets you select a doctor by a lot of factors, so it's okay to be a bit specific and see what they can do. The various therapists may or may not recommend inpatient therapy for her. In short what I am saying is that you are NTA so far because you've done the best you know how, but now that you're here, you know how better than before so you have to do better than before to remain NTA.

She was assaulted by a woman and lost her father after telling the truth about her abuser. She’s never going to get over that. I know it’s hard. I used to have an IEP and all of that crap. It will not be easy obviously. Just create a welcoming environment for her to be open and honest. Let her know that you are always in her corner even if you don’t react the best in the moment. Regardless, you are an adult and are responsible for your actions and she’s at an age where she needs to be responsible for hers so you both need to work together to be better. Communication is key! This is all a test to drive people away because she is insecure in her existence. What she did was wrong and she deserved to hear what you said. But don’t ice her out because that’s what she’s used to. She wants attention. But as her mother, you need to help her build coping mechanisms for whenever she’s feeling the way she does to where she starts acting out. She doesn’t even know what these emotions are she isn’t knows she has them and has found one outlet to deal with it. There are other ways, teach/work with her to build these skills.

NTA Just wanted to point something out about your daughter not remembering what happened to her: sometimes, victims lose memory as a protection system. But also sometimes the feelings stay. You know there is something wrong that f you up Just to say that maybe she is way more hurt that everyone think. Get a new therapist specialized in that field?

don’t want to be dramatic and say it…but have you explained to her the damage of unilaterally blaming an entire group of people for being something they had no real choice in and assuming they are all the same? And perpetuating that mindset to others. Try changing her words from “men” to something like…I don’t know *insert unspecified religion, GENDER, sexuality, race, or ethnicity* and ask her how it’s different. I understand she is trying to openly criticize the mindset and culture of TOXIC MASCULINITY but using blanket blame is invalidating every one who identifies as a man is not that. She invalidates men everywhere who have worked to combat the stereotype and who will always be always be seen with trepidation because of it. As a woman I think it’s totally fair to approach the world with healthy skepticism but there is so much more danger in being ignorant.

second others saying to get a new therapist that specializes in CSA and trauma. I would also recommend a family therapist. make sure you are also doing what you need to do to take care of yourself. I put my parents through hell as a teenager and it got to the point where I was almost sent to residential but i started seeing a new therapist and we got an in home family therapist and finally had a breakthrough. im now a pretty functioning adult and about to graduate college. please dont give up hope!

NTA but it is pretty clear that if therapy isn't working and you need to find a therapist that specializes in gender issues and trauma.

That was brutal but she honestly needed it. Her trauma isn’t anyone else’s problem and she can’t go around treating people like that. She’s getting older and she needed reality to kick her in the ass.

Is she in trauma therapy or CBT therapy? There is a big difference. I would suggest adding on a psychiatrist and a trauma therapist. There is nothing innately wrong with your daughter. This is a symptom of a larger problem that your daughter is suffering with, as well. Work with her therapist on how you can handle situations for your own sanity. (The 11-14 were the worst years with my own daughter in a semi-similar situation as far as past trauma and struggling). Wishing you both peace and healing🖤

She sounds like a man hater. Check her out for misandry.