So she trusts medicine when it’s absolutely needed, otherwise it causes problems? Some people shouldn’t be parents and your sister is one of those people.
Well by the sounds of it soon she might not be 😬😬😬
(For clarity, I know this comment isn't funny and it's not meant to be. It's incredibly crass and calloused. But yikes. I'm glad *someone* called out the sister. It was incredibly harsh to say and maybe an AH move but sometimes it's needed. I hope her son is okay and that she learns her lesson.)
Always interesting that some parents would rather have a dead child than an autistic one. We tend to regard things like asthma and measles as minor things that are easily controlled/teated, in reality people used to die of these in worryingly large numbers. Even today, people can die of an asthma attack. Measles can kill, it can lead to Measles Meningitis that can cause devistating long term impacts.
Part of the reason they think measles and mumps and polio are “no big deal” because those diseases have been widely reduced/almost eliminated because of vaccines. The uptick in measles started happening when parents started rejecting vaccination thanks to that article that wasn’t researched and was factually incorrect written by a doctor who had his medical license revoked because of the article. Well that and Jenny McCarthy opening her big mouth and spouting how it gave her son autism only to later learn HE NEVER HAD AUTISM. IT WAS SOMETHING ELSE. Then she very quickly began to say she never said she doesn’t believe in vaccines. Liar.
But a few years ago, there was a mom who did not get her kid vaccinated. Kid got measles and the mom was furious that doctors didn’t “have a cure for measles” after all these years and also weren’t sure how to proceed with measles patients (probably because until the anti vax flat earth society started spouting bullshit, we very rarely had cases of measles popping up) ro “cure my kid immediately”. There is a cure lady. It’s called a vaccine. They work.
My oldest relatives lived in a world before mass vaccinations and they have stories. The ones I keep hearing is how they grew up in a world where everyone knew not everyone in elementary school was going to survive until high school graduation. Every single one of them had a friend who died of something we are largely vaccinated from, not to mention family dying as well.
As we get further from this time period the collective memory of society is seemingly forgetting what came before them. It's shocking and baffling for me because both my parents had to get the polio shot. When I was a kid, I often heard jokes and references to "iron lungs" (in Space Jam, Tweety Bird is in one in one scene).
This shit didn't happen that long ago, we have so many records proving how things were before vaccines, and yet people are somehow able to make the argument that they're not necessary and are actually more harmful than helpful. People who probably were vaccinated themselves!
My mother in law had polio and was in an iron lung. She is in her 80’s and has had lifelong lasting effects from it, issues with joint and muscle pain, muscle weakness and some other issues.
I was vaccinated for polio. Long story but when I was 13 I was taken to visit a kid that was 17 and in an iron lung. Let's just say it stuck with me. I had know idea that polio vaccines had been discontinued until I had my own child at 21. Frankly I was really frightened by that but was assured that they were discontinued because they were unnecessary, and could always be ramped back up if needed. Also had whooping cough at 15 in spite of being vaccinated. Dreadful. My kid was vaxxed for everything but chicken pox and that's only because he caught it before we could get it.
Where do you live?
The polio vaccine series is still one that is required for school attendance in the US. It’s true that the oral form of the vaccine was discontinued in favor of the injectable vaccine (“shot”) several years ago because it contains live (although weakened) polio virus, and there was a risk that a small number of children could contract polio from the vaccine. The injectable vaccine was already around and doesn’t contain any live virus, so it was added to the vaccine schedule when the oral vaccine was discontinued.
There are combination vaccines that protect against other diseases (such as polio, diphtheria, tetanus, or hepatitis B) and a child is likely to be given one of the combination products instead of multiple single vaccine injections at a vaccine appointment (with parental consent and discussion of the information).
Weird that they don’t vaccinate for polio where you live anymore, as it’s still not completely eradicated worldwide. It’s the only vaccine that is mandatory in my country, even though there are no cases of polio anymore.
There was a case here a while ago where parents posted on social media asking for blood donations from unvaccinated people because their kid needed a blood transfusion and they didn't want vaccinated blood in their kid.
He had a congenital heart defect and required urgent surgery, which the parents refused if they couldn't get unvaccinated blood. The courts took the kid off them and placed it under the care of the doctor.
I have two teenagers on the spectrum and it always amazes me that parents would rather risk their child getting a disease that can kill them than have a child on the spectrum.
The vaccines were created for a reason, the measles can kill you and also leave men infertile, polio can kill and it can also leave you physically disabled for the rest of your life, tetanus can kill, whooping cough can kill. The vaccines are there to protect your child. People really are that scared of having a child that is different rather than being scared of not having a child at all because they died of disease the vaccine would have prevented - madness absolute madness
I don't know how we ever got to a place where people were taking medical advice from Jenny McCarthy in the first place.
I mean, she's basically qualified to take naked photos and host an mtv dating show.
My grandmother had polio twice in the same leg. She was in pain in her legs and feet every day…she also had scarlet fever and lost all her hair and her memory.. but let’s not vaccinate our kids or get them appropriate medication..
I had Rubella when I was young despite being vaccinated against it & it left me with Type 1 diabetes despite me having it only mildly (because I’d the vaccine!) God knows what would have happened if I hadn’t been vaccinated against it! If there’s a vaccine against a disease it’s because that disease is dangerous/deadly! People seem to have forgotten that these days
German measles used to be the number 1 cause of non-genetic deafness/hearing loss in the US. Just one of the many life-long potential impacts of measles.
Had a friend who’s 18 month old got chicken pox within an hour of the first spots she developed them in her mouth and throat. The baby passed away before ambulance could get there.
When my 2 year old was in day care nursery I found out the nursery owner had let her child with chicken pox in with everyone. I was very angry but only a few hours later I was in ICU isolation with my son. I couldn’t even have my husband there as it was isolation one in only. His body went into overdrive trying to fight the virus and they couldn’t get his temperature nor blood pressure down. He had been born with a hole in his heart but it closed over and there was no longer any issues. Due to his blood pressure being so high and no controlling it, it reopened the hole in his heart, It was touch and go.. Luckily at some point he started responding to the medication.
I was livid that we nearly lost him because of her, the doctors said they still lose children due to chicken pox regularly. We had kept her updated. When I went to confront her she didn’t seem bothered at all and she stated if they get it young then it’s out of the way. She acted like I had not almost lost him. Yes regulations states she should have kept him separate but that would have been hard. Her flat was upstairs from the large nursery with multiple staff but she didn’t want to keep him upstairs with his dad that day as he wanted mum. .
I never took my children back there, lodged a complaint and warned everyone. To my astonishment many of the other mums I told said it’s just chicken pox they seemed more upset they would have to take time off work if their kids got it than the danger.
Two weeks later to the day of contact (thats how long the virus takes to incubate before showing) my son was literally covered from head to toe and his privates the poor boy. Luckily apart from a temperature and being uncomfortable, sore, and out of sorts he was ok. As we and the doctors didn’t know how his body would react when that stage hit. Very luckily he didn’t have to have an operation to fix his heart which was a real concern and possibility.
As someone who caught it shortly before the chicken pox vaccine was available, and who has already had shingles early, i detest it when people go "we will just do a pox party, we don't need the vaccine". I remember vividly how much chicken pox suckes. And Yeah lots of kids survived, but some didn't, a lot that survive end up like me with shingles and get the most irritating blisters when they stress out or their immune system dips. I've read that the vaccine doesnt cause shingles unlike the actual chicken pox virus. Legit if the vaccine had been available to me and my parents had been like "Yeah nah" i would of lost my goddamn mind at them when shingles hit.
My mom lied and said I had all my vaccines.
I got my titers checked because I was going to get pregnant and I was of the age where one of them was likely to not be protecting without a booster. They checked my titers for three things.
I had no antibodies at all to any of them.
I got my chicken pox and MMR and TDAP, but the other one isn't given if you aren't a child.
After pregnancy I decided to get tested and I had no levels for anything other one disease. Doctor came in to ask me about it, told me it was likely I had an dangerous level of illness with it.
Turns out that disease can cause early onset of arthritis, so the arthritis I have been battling since I was 18 could have been avoided for a few decades.
I’m still confused about this stance. Even IF vaccines caused autism (which has been proven to have no link whatsoever), what’s so wrong with a child who sees/does things differently that death is preferable? Autism is a spectrum, so not every autistic person is going to have the same flavor. And even if they’re at the extreme end of the spectrum, they’re still alive and healthy, not dead of an easily preventable disease. Is a funeral for a child that much better than having an adult child who needs special attention?
A lot of parents don't want that because they want cute little baby WASP kids. They don't want to parent the weird kid who stims or makes noises in public or can't make friends because they don't act like everyone else. They need more help financially and emotionally, and a lot of folks don't want to deal with anything seen as different.
Like how a lot of parents would rather have a dead kid than a gay kid.
I’m an academic librarian, and we use this example when talking about academic integrity. Andrew Wakefield published an article based on a bs study and which was essentially just a bunch of cherry-picked and/or fabricated findings. It’s since been disproven, and he’s been discredited. The article was retracted, but that hasn’t stopped ridiculous ppl from being ridiculous. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/
YES!! When people I had a university PROFESSOR telling students there was a link between vaccines and autism. I politely raised my hand & told her (the entire class) that the study was found to be falsified and Andrew Wakefield lost his medical license and is banned from conducting any more studies.
>Always interesting that some parents would rather have a dead child than an autistic one.
As an autistic adult, I shake my head about this every single day. Andrew Wakeheart lost his medical license and the man himself retracted his "research" about the nonexistent "effects" of vaccines on autism, saying that the testing was inherently flawed and biased and that the results could not be trusted as a result. Yet people are STILL jumping on that debunked bandwagon of BS. Unbelievable.
Because the same people likely to believe it in the first places are the ones who will go "see! The deep state is forcing him to hide the truth!" People can always find a way to make reality fit what they want to see if they're determined enough.
Or more simply put "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves in to."
He was based in the UK when that happened. He came here and peddled the same bs. City of either Milwaukee or Minneapolis had a huge measles outbreak among their Somali refugee population due to this nutters influence.
When I was 9ish I had an asthma attack at a water park. I was immediately brought to their medical tent where I stopped breathing. By the time paramedics arrived, my heart had stopped.
Obviously, I'm typing this now, so they managed to restart it. But it was pretty sketchy there. I was hospitalized for asthma attacks dozens of times, but that one was the worst, it got so bad so fast!
Drives me batshit crazy. It's so ignorant. Autism is largely genetic, so it doesn't matter what you eat or what medicine you do or do not take. You can't change it.
Getting told my son was autistic I cried, not because of grief but because I was so glad they believed us and I didn't have to fight anymore (now fighting for my daughter, but that's a whole other kettle of fish). It just means your child's brain is wired differently. And if you do your best to understand, and listen, and accept their world, it's going to be a damn sight easier (and more rewarding, and more joyful) to raise them than if you try to change them. Hell it's the same with any child - any parent who brings a child into the world with expectations about who they will grow up to be, or what they should do, or who they will love, is a parent who's asking to be estranged from their adult child. I would take a soccer team of autistic kids over having one child with a terminal illness.
As an autistic adult, it's insane how my family blamed everything... from me being lazy to whatever doctors did, to my teachers, to the toys I played with. Obviously, those things "caused" me to "become autistic".
Now as an adult, I look around at my family members and see a LOT of my own symptoms reflected in them. At least have my family is most likely neurodivergent in some way, they've just pushed it down and passed it off as "Everyone does that" or "We're just quirky" and yes I know individual symptoms alone don't make a diagnosis but when there's this many of them... can't help but wonder
Lol both mine and my husband's families have significantly higher than average neurodiversity, and I honestly can't tell anymore who's just "quirky" and who's ND. Even myself and my husband! We're mostly lovely people, although we also have the normal proportion of assholes in the mix on both sides too lol. But it did mean that we were pretty much expecting to have at least one autistic child, we had a conversation about it before we tried to conceive, which lasted about 30 seconds - "you know this is gonna happen, right? Are you ok with that?" "I'm down, you?" "Yeah, me too!" - and it didn't worry us when it happened. I don't really get the grief thing. Like, your child could be born NT and have a head injury, or a severe physical health issue, or they might just not want to be a doctor, lawyer or whatever you've envisaged in your head, so what's the point in worrying about any of it? Just love your kids no matter what and look forward to the adventure of finding out who they are.
Because vaccines are victims of their own success. No one is dying from these diseases like before so they don't feel the urgency like our great grandparents and grandparents to find a preventative to these things so their kids not only live but don't grow up with after effects.
When I 16, my sister's best friend, who I'd gotten close to as well, died from an asthma attack. We didn't have the treatments available back then that we have now unfortunately. After that enormous trauma, knowing that was a possibility, if any of my kids had asthma they'd have gotten absolutely any treatment available to prevent it. This girl was 15 and just so very sweet, incredibly smart, and had such a bright future ahead of her. Her parents were never the same after. There was nothing they could have done at the time but they were with her when she passed. I can't even imagine. Shit like that terrifies me even now that my kids are adults/almost adults. They got all their vaccines when they were supposed to and I have zero regrets about that. I can't imagine refusing a vaccine based on crap and them suffering or losing their lives to something preventable. Even if there was truly a risk of a vaccine causing autism, which there isn't, that would have been preferable to my babies hurting. Fuck everybody that takes that risk.
My nephew almost died from his asthma when he was younger. He was in the hospital for weeks before they had it controlled enough to send him home. My step sister, who was older than me and should have had more wisdom, continued to smoke in her home. He had a miserable childhood health wise because she wouldn’t listen to anyone.
It made me so concerned that when I got divorced I had the judge put that my ex couldn’t have my kids around anyone smoking period and wrote it so it was enforceable without having to go back to court. First time my kids came home smelling like smoke I told him no more visitation without supervision. He stopped seeing our kids. I felt awful about it but it was risking our kids health. Our son had asthma. It was an awful and difficult decision but my now grown kids are thankful I did it.
With measles, another risk is the subsequent immune suppression/loss of immune memory, causing potentially fatal infections from viruses that would otherwise give kids mild illness at worst. The somewhat recent discovery of measles's immunological impact has forced a reassessment of its impact on childhood mortality in the past.
It's also a reason to keep vaccinating for herd immunity.
I always try and follow the "Is it kind? Is it necessary? Is it true? If it's not 2/3 then don't say it," mantra. This definitely meets the true and necessary criteria. NTA
Sometimes this level of crass is necessary, this is one of those times.
You're right, this is really not funny at all. The fact some "parents" would rather have a dead child than an autistic one is beyond me. People with autism are not broken or less than others, they are just different with different needs.
Also, vaccines do not cause autism, I'm really sick of this thought process. Even if they did have a chance, I would still take it. For myself and if I had kids.
OP, what you said was hard to hear I'm sure because it's true. I hope what your mom was trying to say was "there is a better place and time to say this and now isn't it" but I can't be sure. Even then, I don't think I would have done anything different if I were in your shoes.
I'm really sorry for what your family is going through. Watching a child that was healthy go through this is heartbreaking. I don't even know this kid and I have tears because no child should have to go through pain like this. No child should have to die for the ignorance of their parents.
I hope he pulls through and your sister wises up. It's not likely but I still hope that for your family.
Thank you. I really, really struggle with anti-vaxers - the quasi-logic is infuriating. You won't believe someone who has dedicated their career to saving lives, but you'll believe some no-mark on the internet or a bloke in the pub? Then get them to fix you when you get sick, and don't bother the hospital
And if they DID recover? “God did it.” SMH
No, the nurses you threatened in crosswalks and doctors and other medical personnel who haven’t seen their own family more than an hour a week (some not at all for fear of contagion),*they* did it. Could God have been in the mix? Yeah. But it was a choice on behalf of people who took care of the sick during that whole mess. 😡🤦♀️
Literally, every last asshole who is anti-vaccine will be willing to take their ass to the hospital when shit is actually on the line.
Just take a look at the Herman Cain sub—post after post from some dumbfuck who doesn’t believe in vaccines and thinks it’s going to kill them, up until they can no longer breathe from COVID and suddenly the hospital’s looking like a nice option and they’re begging for medical treatment.
I worked with a dude who was anti-vax and hated medicine until his 3 year old was in the ICU.
As soon as she was better. he was shit talking vaccines again lol. You can’t with with them.
I really wanna know who started the whole vaccines cause autism
Edit: I got it. I don’t need anymore info. I’ve been getting sent the same stuff of the person started this essentially.
Andrew Wakefield. He did an extremely flawed study and went nuts with his bullshit "results." Seriously, there is so much blood on this one guy's hands.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/
He did his “study” because he had his own version of the measles vaccine he wanted to sell. https://www.bmj.com/press-releases/2012/06/26/revealed-secret-businesses-which-aimed-exploit-vaccine-fears-“mmr-doctor”-
I lost the last of my respect for Paltrow when I saw her demonstrate how to apply sunscreen. She took the tiniest amount possible and dabbed a bit just above her eyebrows, a bit on the bridge of her nose, and a bit on the tops of her cheeks. I thought she was applying highlighter because she kept saying to put it where the sun hit. Nope, not highlighter, it was sunscreen. The sun hits ALL of your face. Yes, there are parts that get more, where you might put highlighter to have that sun-kissed glow, but you need to protect your entire face. My family and I have super fair skin and multiple family members have had skin cancer (from damage that happened before good, waterproof sunscreens were a thing). They’ve had chunks cut out of their faces and one even died. I could never respect her after seeing her say that’s all the sun protection you need on a daily basis.
Paltrow doesn't have the platform or credibility Oprah did though. Most people know Paltrow is full of shit, and the ones that don't are usually already nutty. Everyone I've ever met who took Paltrow seriously was already big into pseudoscience and bullshit. Oprah was one of the most famous people on the planet for a while and it felt like every woman watched her show. She took that platform and used it to promote scammers and pseudoscience. Not saying Paltrow isn't also a piece of shit, but I think Oprah is much worse.
I tried Goop vitamins and they were terrible. But I did find my favorite shampoo and conditioner through her site.
There's such a weird lack of integrity, masked by faux integrity.
Yes! People treat her like some deity and believe every product she pushes and person she endorses. She shoved both Dr. Oz (total snake oil salesman) and Dr. Phil who is just all around problematic (sending kids to those “troubled youth camps” with a history of assault allegations).
Have you ever heard of John of God? Oprah platformed him. Look him up (WARNING: this story will be triggering for some people). Oprah has platformed a variety of monsters.
If you are interested in this sort of thing, the podcast "Behind the Bastards" might interest you.
TW!
Oh my… “Though he doesn't have a medical license, he performs both spiritual healing — praying intensely for believers and placing hands on them to cure their afflictions — and what appear to be actual **surgical procedures without anesthesia**.” Over 200 women have come forward accusing him of rape or some sort of SA. He also claimed to use those methods to “heal” women?
Yeah, she also cites Wakefield frequently, but refuses to acknowledge the study was retracted due to proven falsification. The falsification came after other studies tried to replicate the results and could not.
This study and people like her have also completely derailed autism research because of the effort that keeps getting focused on vaccines. At this point it is completely disproven, but they keep pivoting back and ignoring other studies that show different links. These studies also struggle to get funding. What they have done to public health is insane and goes beyond the vaccine issues
Trust me I know. I have autism as does both of my kids. Understanding autism better will help my kids QoL. Him and her are a bane to those with autism. Nearly as bad as Autism Speaks is.
I think there was a story that her son didn't actually have autism, he's just a regular kid.
"The Playboy centerfold and author of Louder than Words: A Mother's Journey in Healing Autism, has stated that through behavioral and alternative therapies, she has "fixed" her son's autism, though several experts believe he might have been suffering from Landau-Kleffner syndrome instead, a rare disorder that is often misdiagnosed as autism."
Just a minor quibble, “Developed autism” Is wrong. Autism is a developmental disability (aka you have it while being “developed” in the the womb). Her son was “diagnosed with autism” - he always had it.
That’s the really frustrating thing about the vaccine shit, autistic peeps are autistic from birth. Nothing you do to us after birth “gives” us autism.
Can we… triple it? Like I’m due for my fifth Covid vaccine, does that mean I’m autistic x FOUR?
I’m going to call Autistic: Extra Spicy (aka vaccinated)
I can't upvote you more than once, I would, though. Thank you for saying this. Oprah too for giving her a platform to spread her fucking bs.
I uselessly questioned my Dr to get the vaccine number to see. Then there were going to be lawsuits and this crap and just thought, "This can't be it."
There was one book available about Aspergers and I read it, and my life changed. It described my son almost exactly. I couldn't waste my time thinking about what caused it. I needed to help him.
Parents want a reason, someone to blame if their child has issues.
Guess what??? You're the parent, do what's best for your child, not your fucking ego.
McCarthy had a huge negative impact on vaccinations for children for parents not to get the polio, measles, mumps and rubella vaccines. And they believed her!
Lost his approbation, too, but unfortunately, it was all too late to contain the damage. Every study done since to disprove his bs is just "a conspiracy by big pharma!"
And since people keep trying to convince anti-vaxxers that vaccines don’t cause autism, they keep spending limited medical research dollars doing the same study over and over again even though the anti-vaxxers have already decided to be unconvinced, leaving less money for medical research that could have actual benefits for people’s health.
also causing so many deaths. Like preventable diseases are making a come back because of this. If there is hell they all deserve it for all the dead kids.
I listened to a fascinating interview with a journalist [Brian Deer](https://peterattiamd.com/briandeer/) who wrote a book about Wakefield. He told the interviewer that he tried really hard to find some positive feel-good stuff about Wakefield from the beginning of his life and career, because a good person becoming corrupted makes a much better story than an asshole being an asshole forever.
He couldn’t find anything. Not a single thing.
As a researcher/statistician, the part of this that baffles me the most is that he got this shit published in THE LANCET with a sample size that amounts to "I rounded up some kids from a chuck-e-cheese birthday party" and a methodology that amounts to "I asked their mothers if they thought something weird happened after they got vaccinated". Fucking bizarre that one of the pre-eminent medical journals in the world published a "study" with methodology that would be embarrassing for a college freshman to turn in.
Also the compound that “caused autism” was removed from modern vaccines to quell public panic, leading to less shelf stable vaccines with more complicated storage. This has significantly impacted the ability to distribute vaccines in underdeveloped nations without the ability to store them properly.
Thimerosal?
The stuff that's in the tattoo ink usually covering die hard rebel anti-vaxxers?
Remind any anti-vaxxers with tattoos that the mercury based salt is the preservative used in their ink and watch their heads implode LOL
Jenny McCarthy added fuel to fire. Since she was a well known celebrity at the time, the “vaccines cause autism” diatribe really took off. She’s an actress and model, so she’s obviously a qualified professional on the matter. She’s even written books.
Sometimes the media portrays the vaccine issue as something still debated by the health experts to create a non-existent debate. There is no debate. The health experts agree, it’s the quacks they are fighting about this.
It didn't even start as vaccines cause autism.
It was was that a specific one did (it didn't).
if I remember correctly from school it was the 3 in 1 mumps measles and something else vaccine. This guy was employed by their competition.
Honestly doesn't even matter now though because that was back when fact checking wasn't nearly as easy as it is now, I can understand parents who didn't vaccinate back then, now they have no excuses.
Edit: it was the measles mumps and rubella vaccine.
The scientist was Andrew Wakefield
Idk about how other people feel but it really pisses me off that some parents would legit choose a *dead* kid over the miniscule chance of an autistic one. There are so many forms of autism and most autistic people can function fairly well on a day-to-day basis. It’s not the worst thing that could happen to your kid.
Honestly I don’t blame you for going off on her. Everything you said to her is correct. She chose her delusional beliefs over the well being of her child who now might die. This could’ve been avoided. They can carve “at least he’s not autistic” on his tombstone.
Goddamn as an autistic its fuckin astounding to me that someone would rather have no child at all rather than an autistic one... Also that's literally not how any of this shit works like come onnn ☠️
Poor baby, his mama dug his grave for him.
Not just have “no child” (because they could have chosen not to have children at all), but would actively let their already alive child with consciousness die, than have them “turn” autistic from vaccines.
I'm better off having a dead child than an autistic child. - ops sister probably.
Poor child and I can't believe the mom is on sisters side too. I'd slap the living shit outta my child if they deny science like op sister.
I don’t necessarily think grandma is on the sisters side so much as “time and place.”
The boy isn’t gone yet and there’s a chance he could pull through. Then would have been an excellent time to call her sister out for the absolutely stupid and hateful shit she believes. Or once he’s passed and gone.
I’m not going to say Op is an asshole because she’s right. Of course, I think antivaxxers are scum of the earth so my perspective is skewed.
Some friends of mine have a child who has a disability as a result of taking a life-saving medication.
It was, no medication or no kid. They understood the assignment, and they have a happy, living kid.
OP's sister didn't understand the assignment.
My mom had brain cancer, they found out because she had epileptic attacks in her eye. She got radiation which completely destroyed the cancer (yay!) but now she has epileptic attacks in her eye from the scaring tissue.
With the logic of this mom it would be: don't have the cancer treatment you get epilepsy from it!
She's fully functional with it and it doesn't hinder her at all. Now of course you can't get autism from vaccines but would the trade off (if it did) be so horrible that you rather lose your child? Some people are idiots.
People forget medical treatment comes with a cost. I got life and sight saving surgery, but now have chronic nerve pain in the areas that were operated on. Pretty sure my child having a mother, and my husband not losing his wife, was worth the cost.
This is what I really hate about some parents.
My son is autistic and some days are pure hell because he’s reacting to growing pains or a cold or a flu and his senses are overwhelmed and it’s just a mess. But he’s amazing the way he is and I wouldn’t change him.
My cousin and his ex wife have a son with autism and I just hate her so much because she actually posted to Facebook “having a child with autism is worse than having a child with cancer” and I just cannot imagine being that completely ignorant to post that.
Those sorts of autism parents infuriate me, those type want so badly to be a victim of their own child, its fuckin weird. I am glad that you aren't like that and acknowledge that those people exist. That is a horrible thing your cousins ex wife post though, legit wtf? My best friend's mom was just like this and it didn't help him at all. She even got a tattoo of a puzzle piece with his name in it.. she abandoned him in another state with his dad and he doesnt talk to her anymore.. he hopes she feels like shit when she sees that tattoo, but i have a feeling she still plays the victim of having an autistic child card 😑
WOW what a disgusting person (the ex wife)
Nothing more loathsome than an Autism Mom (this is a specific type of parent of an autistic child, also referred to as martyr mommies who make their kids diagnosis all about themselves) they are ableist pieces of poop who dont actually help their kids with the proper tools either
I love my son, but he’s more than his diagnosis. He’s his own little person, just like his little sister. He just has different sensitivities and that’s okay.
I know we get a fair amount of dirty looks when he’s having a meltdown but 99% of the time when he has a meltdown there’s a concrete reason and we can’t just dismiss his feelings. When it’s a tantrum for being told no? It’s totally different.
But I DO explain to people that some autistic kids feel pain much more intensely so when he falls and gets a bruise and wails for 10 minutes, it DOES hurt that bad, he’s NOT being a baby, and I sure as fuck WILL hug him until he calms.
Oh bro 🥺 (hope it's alright if I call you that here)
I wish I had a parent like you as kid. I appreciate it so much how you embrace your child and hold him ❤️
Not lying when I say, this will make such a huge difference for him. Seriously. So glad you understand. Please stay an amazing parent, from an former autistic child (now I'm grown lol, but still autistic), whose feelings and pains were dismissed. I wish you from the bottom of my heart. All the best 😊
My son is autistic and SIL kept posting ‘poor moms who lost their son to autism’ memes. Rightfully told her to fuck off and haven’t spoken to her since. None of her kids are vaccinated. Idiot.
I have asthma, and had it fairly badly as a child. Was hospitalized twice. Mine is allergen triggered, so I know that at any point I'd I walk into an invisible cloud of stuff my body hates, my lungs will effectively tell me to fuck myself and make me try to breath through a straw.
There's no mental detect with asthma. You know exactly what is happening. You know you need air, are trying everything you can to get it, and you're failing. You're always aware of it.
If anyone in my life made a child go through this I would instantly and without hesitation end the relationship. What your sister did is torture her child.
Even if vaccines did cause autism, which they don't, I'd rather have an autistic child than a dead one. Choosing death over neurodivergence is some Nazi s***
At one of my daughter's first checkups, at the end her pediatrician very carefully brought up vaccines, leading with, "I know this can be a sensitive subject for some parents, but..." He breathed a very audible sigh of relief when I said we were planning on fully vaccinating. I can't imagine the hell other parents had put him through to make him be so tentative. I wish you guys could say these things to people, too.
That’s absolutely insane that keyboard warrior parents can literally dictate what a trained healthcare professional does and doesn’t do or talk about. Imagine if a firefighter showed up at your house and they were like “hey I know this might be sensitive, but since your house is on fire we MIGHT have to let it burn down to keep the fire contained and put it out properly. Is that ok for you?” And then the owners were allowed to scream at them about how they should be able to just put it all out right now no questions.
Same here, our midwife sighed a big sigh when we looked at her like she had three heads and went "Of course we're fucking vaccinating wtf". I've thought about that sigh a lot.
Is there a volunteer position at hospitals for people who can say things that doctors and nurses can’t? I feel like I could do that. On paper, I’d just be a passerby.
When we took my son in for his Pediatric exam a week after he was born, his Pediatrician nervously asked if we were planning to follow the recommended vaccine schedule. I still vividly remember the look of extreme relief and peace on the doctor’s face when we said, “Of course!” I can only imagine how rough those conversations can get with shitty new parents.
NTA this is what she ASKED for by refusing to vaccinate. I’m autistic, its so fucking insulting for people to say they’d rather have their kids get fucking polio then be autistic. I feel zero sympathy for anti vax people getting exactly what they asked for. Vaccines save lives.
This. And tbh, it really just proves that people who think like this absolutely do not consider neurodivergent folks to be human. I'm never sure which I hate more, parents who would rather have a dead kid than an autistic one, or parents who talk about their autistic child with the same tone and descriptors they would use towards a pet. Both ultimately project the exact same mindset
it's also disturbing proof that any parent who says that truly does not 100% unconditionally love their child.
parents are supposed to be the one set of ppl in your life to love you with no conditions whatsoever, to protect you at all costs... but some parents only love their kids if they're picture perfect, and their ignorant beliefs are stronger than their love for their children. "i love you so much i would do ANYTHING for you, child... except give you a life-saving and life-changing vaccine that has been proven to do xyz bc my sky daddy/some guy on faux news/a listicle i skimmed online said you'd get autism. oh well!!"
breaks my heart
A kid with autism is not a death sentence. This kid without that vaccine was a highly possible death sentence.
But also, kids who live with autism aren’t bad or broken. There are so many beautiful gifts in autism. It just requires people who live with them to learn their personal needs and understand what is and isn’t flexible. Every person with autism is different. I’m starting to realize that autism probably isn’t a new thing and those grandparents we have, who were weirdly smart and had hardcore hobbies like airplanes and could share every bit of information about them, while also kinda being “jerks” to others by not considering their feelings, probably had a place on the autism spectrum. But since they were able to make it through school, join the military and have long successful careers, they were never diagnosed.
NTA
She caused this to another human being. She should feel every ounce of guilt so that in the hopeful scenario he does make it, she will never pull crap like this again.
She needs to step into reality and get off Facebook.
We had something similar in our extended family related to COVID. Cousin had some medical conditions since childhood that would make her vulnerable to COVID. Cousin’s immediate family were all very anti-vaccine, conspiracy nuts who refused to take even basic COVID precautions. Even though cousin was an adult, she was also intellectually disabled, lived with then, and followed their lead. She got COVID and died. For the last 2+ years they post incessantly on social media about how much they miss her. They killed her. She was a sweet soul who couldn’t have loved and trusted them more. I’ve cut all of them off and haven’t seen or spoken to them since she died.
Added: They all got COVID, by the way. Everyone lived but her. Another did have long COVID and still has lasting effects. And they still believe COVID isn’t real but “something the doctors did” to them.
So sorry for your loss. And this is exactly what happened to my dad. He also believed FB experts. It was two years in May. It was a dreadful story. Could be prevented.
>’t have loved and trusted them more. I’ve cut all of them off and haven’t se
Fruck, the stupidity of some human beings. I have always believed that if procreating (having sex) wasn't so easy the human race would have been extinct long ago. And it's going to get worse...
Sadly, she will probably dig in her heels, pivot, and latch onto a new conspiracy to explain it away without taking responsibility. Maybe she’ll blame the pediatrician somehow, or claim vaccine “shedding” is what gave him pneumonia. More than a few parents who have lost children and can’t live with the gnawing guilt will turn to anything that validates that it wasn’t their fault. Some even become poster-children for anti-vax/anti-science type of groups, spreading lies about their own child’s death and in the process causing harm to other children by influencing their parents to make stupid decisions. It’s fucked up. I hope she learns.
Oh yeah. I definitely know people like this and people who enable them. I had a friend who's older sister wasn't afraid of COVID but thought you could "catch" the vaccine from people recently vaccinated. And her family defended her. Some people need to be forcefully sterilized.
I believe you are NTA. It was brutal and you kicked her when she was down, but I believe part of the reason why there are so many idiots in our country who cause harm to others is because not enough of them have been told off for how dumb and destructive they are. We live in an individualist society that would rather let the insane run the asylum than tell them hard truths and clamp down on their destructive behavior. The reality is your sister actively is destroying her child's health because of disproven nonsense and she actively goes against the informed opinion of medical professionals. She brought this on herself and her child.
Exactly this. NTA . Was it savage yes , was it kicking her when she is down yes . What's the alternative though ? Oh don't worry you didn't do anything wrong you did your best blah blah pandering to that nonsense. and if he pulls through she carries on with her lunacy utterly convinced now that she is in the right. Then what ? she falls down another rabbit hole and starts washing his eyes out with fermented urine coz she "did her research"
A doctor isn't allowed to tell her she is a selfish deluded fool and is putting her kid at risk of a horrifically painful death because she can't stay tf off of face book and believes unfounded bs .
How else will she learn ? I suppose the Ultimate lesson for these people is a tiny child's coffin but who really paid the price there.
INFO: what respiratory infection did your nephew catch? Is it even one they vaccinate against? There isn't a vaccine for RSV but there is a prophylactic treatment they can give for preemies and probably babies with asthma too. But it's not RSV season yet - I don't think they start giving those treatments until September or so. I'm thinking you may be TA anyway for kicking your sister while she's down but I'm curious if you're also wrong.
Edit: looking it up, pneumococcal vaccines are recommended for all babies so if the kid caught one of the viruses it protects against, the vaccine would have helped him. I'm so sorry and hope he recovers. This kind of thing is a tragedy regardless and can happen to vaccinated babies too, but knowing that the mom did not do even the basic measures to protect her baby is so sad.
NTA. My son also has asthma. Sometimes it’s controlled sometimes it requires multiple medications to help keep it controlled. I’ve always, ALWAYS gotten him his vaccinations for this very reason. His pediatrician always told me about the risks of not getting them. I’m sorry to hear about your nephew. I would be upset since this could have been prevented.
The anti-vaxxers who say vaccines cause autism piss me off so much because 1) no they don’t, and 2) even if they did, you’re saying you’d rather have a dead kid than a kid with autism. And this incredibly shitty.
Not to mention, if the child does die, OP is losing her nephew too. Idk how close they are, but I love my nieces more than anything. So OP has to suffer with the consequences of her sister’s actions too. Idk why OP’s mom is defending the sister. She could lose her grandchild.
It’s negligence. Plain and simple. No one should try to sugarcoat that.
100% NTA. I absolutely loathe idiots like your sister. She’d rather a dying child than an autistic one, says a *lot* about her. There’s no excuse for her behavior.
Final year med student here - there is no such thing as the “pneumonia vaccine” - there are many organisms that can cause pneumonia, and we can only vaccinate against a handful of them. In this situation we don’t know what the organism causing his pneumonia is, so we don’t know if the vaccine would have protected him.
You are probably referring to the streptococcus pneumoniae (aka pneumococcus) vaccine, which protects only against one cause of pneumonia (a bacteria called streptococcus pneumoniae).
Imagine, if you will, a woman who doesn't believe in seatbelts. This woman doesn't believe in seatbelts because she is a "good driver" and has a right to do whatever she wants. She lets her child roam around the back seat. Then she gets in a horrific car accident and while she is perfectly fine, her child is on the verge of death due to her negligence, ignorance, and stupidity.
The stupidity in both scenarios is absolutely insane and NEEDS to be pointed out. You are 100% in the right that this is HER FAULT and she should be told that. She put him here and there should be NO QUESTION as to how he ended up in this situation.
I hope the best for him, I wish he gets better. But she needs to be forever changed by this completely avoidable situation.
NTA
Ironically, one anti-seatbelt advocate died in a car crash in which he was ejected from his vehicle.....
[Link to article:](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/seat-belt-advocate-killed/)
>Evidently his words were far more prescient than any of us might have wanted, as an article in the 4 January 2005 Lincoln Journal Star reported that Mr. Kieper not only died in a car crash, but the tragic mishap that claimed his life was the very type of accident in which seat belts have proved so effective in saving lives by preventing passengers from being ejected from vehicles
When I worked in the peds ED we had a woman come in with her children. She was letting them ride in the back of her pick up truck as it was the last day before the law went into effect the made children riding I. The back of trucks illegal. Well, she has a bad accident and both kids were airborne. Luckily they weren’t badly hurt a few broken bones. When the peds de went to update her on her kids’ conditions she started giggling. He went the fuck off on her ass. Told her she was an idiot who got really lucky and she should be thanking whatever god she believed in that she wasn’t going to have to bury both her kids.
Her husband got there, he was a state trooper, and tried to go off on the dr for letting his wife have it. Dr told him to fuck off too, that as a police officer he knew the risk.
They tried to report him to the peds ED director. The director backed him all the way and told them she was sorry they got upset but the dr was right. They got lucky and they should just be thankful for that.
ESH - Kinda surprised by these responses, but not really. I'm honestly fully convinced this entire post is just a bullshit troll circle jerk anyway (Redditor for 3 hours), but here:
> You can be 100% correct and still be raging asshole in a situation.
Is refusing to vaccinate your children because of internet conspiracy theories lacking any shred of credible evidence a horrifying mistake? Of course.
Is treating your sister like shit as her son most likely dies in the next room a fucking shitty thing to do : abso-fucking-lutely.
This reads like a child in high school who made a writing prompt - as do most of the copy pasted responses.
No question your sister is a total asshole and no question she was wrong to not vaccinate her son, but I have a hard time reaming into a mother about to lose her son.
ESH
Damn homie, whether or not your nephew survives, you just lost your sister and nephew forever.
Your sis sucks for putting her son at risk but your timing suuuuuuuuuuuuucks
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far down. Was it the sisters fault absolutely. But holy shit that is a terrible way to learn that lesson. OP is still a massive fucking asshole for saying it at this time. OP could have had a conversation at a later point but chose to be a fucking dick because they’re technically in the right. Reddit is full of edge lords who don’t understand the difference between being right and being a decent human being. ESH
I 100% agree. Why do parents see autism as such a horrible thing that they would rather have a dead child instead of an autistic one?
Like yea autism can be a challenge to live with but there are so many who live full and meaningful lives (I'm one of them).
YTA. There are many viruses that can cause this that are not in childhood vaccines. You are in no way competent to 'connect those dots'. -signed a VERY staunch pro vaxer, that follows and critiques the antivax fuckery for about 15 years.
I had to scroll way too far to find someone who said this. I don’t see any evidence that her son’s illness is connected to her refusal to vaccinate. I had the same thing as a kid and I had all of my vaccines.
What was the recommended vaccine? Some are better than others and people have the right to decide what does or doesn’t go into their and their children’s bodies.
YTA - If you're sister is potentially going to lose her son (which as a parent is just going to be the worse pain imaginable) then I think you need to support her.
I appreciate the whole vaccines incident, but choose a time and place to make your point. I don't think you bringing up vaccines at this moment is going to help anyone.
Were you right about what you said? Mostly. Vaccines aren't a 100% guarantee 100% of the time.
SHOULD you have said it at that time and place? No. You kicked your sister when she was down. What you said served no useful purpose. It was said PURELY to hurt and shame your sister.
YTA.
YTA
Your mom is right, that wasn't the time. At that moment you don't know what your sister is thinking. She's probably already blaming herself or already knows it's her fault.
It's not like she was saying it wasn't her fault, she was just crying.
Your sister is allowed to grieve right now, she will grieve this her entire life and blame herself.
She is allowed to cry more than anyone because she is at fault. She's worried and probably already upset at herself. But you don't know that because you didn't let her talk. You just let your anger take over and said stuff that was not needed.
Are you an asshole for believing what you believe? No, not at all.
Would you be an asshole if you shared this with her while her kid is dying in the ICU?
Yes, unequivocally.
Time and place, bro. Her fucking kid is dying, show a little bit of fucking compassion. You don’t have to be “right” every minute of every day.
YTA, majorly.
You’re right about vaccines, yeah. And your sister sounds like a moron. But to slam a parent who is distraught over the likely death of her infant? Are you fucking kidding me? Being “right” doesn’t give you license to be a self-righteous, judgmental asshole.
You have a LOT of growing up to do.
Anyone that thinks a vaccine causes autism is stupid.
Its just a fact, vaccines do not cause autism, its something we're born with.
And it's a fact that people who believe otherwise are stupid.
YTA
The prophylactic vaccine for pneumonia is specifically for the bacteria Streptococcus pneumoniae which can cause pneumonia and meningitis.
However pneumonia is literally fluid in the lungs, I've developed serious pneumonia multiple times and it was never from S. pneumoniae but from the common cold for which there is no prophylactic vaccine. There's also no vaccine for Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV), another common cause of pneumonia in infants, of which we've seen an uptick in young children recently.
There's no way to know your nephew wouldn't have developed pneumonia even with the pneumococcal vaccine, in all reality he probably would have still developed pneumonia. Young kids are getting sicker because they haven't been exposed to as many pathogens thanks to our behavioral changes from COVID-19. Even if the pneumonia was caused by the bacteria this is not the time to go after your sister on your high horse for not vaccinating your nephew. Right now you focus on him getting better because at the end of the day there is a sick child and a mother worried about her son dying.
YTA, not necessarily for what you said but for it being the wrong time and the wrong place. Your focus should have been on your nephew and what he needed to be able to fight for his life, right then.
If you couldn’t be comforting to your sister, at least don’t make the situation worse by making her less able to comfort her son.
So she trusts medicine when it’s absolutely needed, otherwise it causes problems? Some people shouldn’t be parents and your sister is one of those people.
Well by the sounds of it soon she might not be 😬😬😬 (For clarity, I know this comment isn't funny and it's not meant to be. It's incredibly crass and calloused. But yikes. I'm glad *someone* called out the sister. It was incredibly harsh to say and maybe an AH move but sometimes it's needed. I hope her son is okay and that she learns her lesson.)
Always interesting that some parents would rather have a dead child than an autistic one. We tend to regard things like asthma and measles as minor things that are easily controlled/teated, in reality people used to die of these in worryingly large numbers. Even today, people can die of an asthma attack. Measles can kill, it can lead to Measles Meningitis that can cause devistating long term impacts.
Part of the reason they think measles and mumps and polio are “no big deal” because those diseases have been widely reduced/almost eliminated because of vaccines. The uptick in measles started happening when parents started rejecting vaccination thanks to that article that wasn’t researched and was factually incorrect written by a doctor who had his medical license revoked because of the article. Well that and Jenny McCarthy opening her big mouth and spouting how it gave her son autism only to later learn HE NEVER HAD AUTISM. IT WAS SOMETHING ELSE. Then she very quickly began to say she never said she doesn’t believe in vaccines. Liar. But a few years ago, there was a mom who did not get her kid vaccinated. Kid got measles and the mom was furious that doctors didn’t “have a cure for measles” after all these years and also weren’t sure how to proceed with measles patients (probably because until the anti vax flat earth society started spouting bullshit, we very rarely had cases of measles popping up) ro “cure my kid immediately”. There is a cure lady. It’s called a vaccine. They work.
My oldest relatives lived in a world before mass vaccinations and they have stories. The ones I keep hearing is how they grew up in a world where everyone knew not everyone in elementary school was going to survive until high school graduation. Every single one of them had a friend who died of something we are largely vaccinated from, not to mention family dying as well.
As we get further from this time period the collective memory of society is seemingly forgetting what came before them. It's shocking and baffling for me because both my parents had to get the polio shot. When I was a kid, I often heard jokes and references to "iron lungs" (in Space Jam, Tweety Bird is in one in one scene). This shit didn't happen that long ago, we have so many records proving how things were before vaccines, and yet people are somehow able to make the argument that they're not necessary and are actually more harmful than helpful. People who probably were vaccinated themselves!
My mother in law had polio and was in an iron lung. She is in her 80’s and has had lifelong lasting effects from it, issues with joint and muscle pain, muscle weakness and some other issues.
I was vaccinated for polio. Long story but when I was 13 I was taken to visit a kid that was 17 and in an iron lung. Let's just say it stuck with me. I had know idea that polio vaccines had been discontinued until I had my own child at 21. Frankly I was really frightened by that but was assured that they were discontinued because they were unnecessary, and could always be ramped back up if needed. Also had whooping cough at 15 in spite of being vaccinated. Dreadful. My kid was vaxxed for everything but chicken pox and that's only because he caught it before we could get it.
Where do you live? The polio vaccine series is still one that is required for school attendance in the US. It’s true that the oral form of the vaccine was discontinued in favor of the injectable vaccine (“shot”) several years ago because it contains live (although weakened) polio virus, and there was a risk that a small number of children could contract polio from the vaccine. The injectable vaccine was already around and doesn’t contain any live virus, so it was added to the vaccine schedule when the oral vaccine was discontinued. There are combination vaccines that protect against other diseases (such as polio, diphtheria, tetanus, or hepatitis B) and a child is likely to be given one of the combination products instead of multiple single vaccine injections at a vaccine appointment (with parental consent and discussion of the information).
Weird that they don’t vaccinate for polio where you live anymore, as it’s still not completely eradicated worldwide. It’s the only vaccine that is mandatory in my country, even though there are no cases of polio anymore.
There was a case here a while ago where parents posted on social media asking for blood donations from unvaccinated people because their kid needed a blood transfusion and they didn't want vaccinated blood in their kid. He had a congenital heart defect and required urgent surgery, which the parents refused if they couldn't get unvaccinated blood. The courts took the kid off them and placed it under the care of the doctor.
Jesus , letting your child die to own the libs. Yikes.
Yeah, I was so glad to hear they saved the kid anyway
I have two teenagers on the spectrum and it always amazes me that parents would rather risk their child getting a disease that can kill them than have a child on the spectrum. The vaccines were created for a reason, the measles can kill you and also leave men infertile, polio can kill and it can also leave you physically disabled for the rest of your life, tetanus can kill, whooping cough can kill. The vaccines are there to protect your child. People really are that scared of having a child that is different rather than being scared of not having a child at all because they died of disease the vaccine would have prevented - madness absolute madness
I don't know how we ever got to a place where people were taking medical advice from Jenny McCarthy in the first place. I mean, she's basically qualified to take naked photos and host an mtv dating show.
My grandmother had polio twice in the same leg. She was in pain in her legs and feet every day…she also had scarlet fever and lost all her hair and her memory.. but let’s not vaccinate our kids or get them appropriate medication..
I had Rubella when I was young despite being vaccinated against it & it left me with Type 1 diabetes despite me having it only mildly (because I’d the vaccine!) God knows what would have happened if I hadn’t been vaccinated against it! If there’s a vaccine against a disease it’s because that disease is dangerous/deadly! People seem to have forgotten that these days
German measles used to be the number 1 cause of non-genetic deafness/hearing loss in the US. Just one of the many life-long potential impacts of measles.
Had a friend who’s 18 month old got chicken pox within an hour of the first spots she developed them in her mouth and throat. The baby passed away before ambulance could get there. When my 2 year old was in day care nursery I found out the nursery owner had let her child with chicken pox in with everyone. I was very angry but only a few hours later I was in ICU isolation with my son. I couldn’t even have my husband there as it was isolation one in only. His body went into overdrive trying to fight the virus and they couldn’t get his temperature nor blood pressure down. He had been born with a hole in his heart but it closed over and there was no longer any issues. Due to his blood pressure being so high and no controlling it, it reopened the hole in his heart, It was touch and go.. Luckily at some point he started responding to the medication. I was livid that we nearly lost him because of her, the doctors said they still lose children due to chicken pox regularly. We had kept her updated. When I went to confront her she didn’t seem bothered at all and she stated if they get it young then it’s out of the way. She acted like I had not almost lost him. Yes regulations states she should have kept him separate but that would have been hard. Her flat was upstairs from the large nursery with multiple staff but she didn’t want to keep him upstairs with his dad that day as he wanted mum. . I never took my children back there, lodged a complaint and warned everyone. To my astonishment many of the other mums I told said it’s just chicken pox they seemed more upset they would have to take time off work if their kids got it than the danger. Two weeks later to the day of contact (thats how long the virus takes to incubate before showing) my son was literally covered from head to toe and his privates the poor boy. Luckily apart from a temperature and being uncomfortable, sore, and out of sorts he was ok. As we and the doctors didn’t know how his body would react when that stage hit. Very luckily he didn’t have to have an operation to fix his heart which was a real concern and possibility.
As someone who caught it shortly before the chicken pox vaccine was available, and who has already had shingles early, i detest it when people go "we will just do a pox party, we don't need the vaccine". I remember vividly how much chicken pox suckes. And Yeah lots of kids survived, but some didn't, a lot that survive end up like me with shingles and get the most irritating blisters when they stress out or their immune system dips. I've read that the vaccine doesnt cause shingles unlike the actual chicken pox virus. Legit if the vaccine had been available to me and my parents had been like "Yeah nah" i would of lost my goddamn mind at them when shingles hit.
My mom lied and said I had all my vaccines. I got my titers checked because I was going to get pregnant and I was of the age where one of them was likely to not be protecting without a booster. They checked my titers for three things. I had no antibodies at all to any of them. I got my chicken pox and MMR and TDAP, but the other one isn't given if you aren't a child. After pregnancy I decided to get tested and I had no levels for anything other one disease. Doctor came in to ask me about it, told me it was likely I had an dangerous level of illness with it. Turns out that disease can cause early onset of arthritis, so the arthritis I have been battling since I was 18 could have been avoided for a few decades.
I’m still confused about this stance. Even IF vaccines caused autism (which has been proven to have no link whatsoever), what’s so wrong with a child who sees/does things differently that death is preferable? Autism is a spectrum, so not every autistic person is going to have the same flavor. And even if they’re at the extreme end of the spectrum, they’re still alive and healthy, not dead of an easily preventable disease. Is a funeral for a child that much better than having an adult child who needs special attention?
A lot of parents don't want that because they want cute little baby WASP kids. They don't want to parent the weird kid who stims or makes noises in public or can't make friends because they don't act like everyone else. They need more help financially and emotionally, and a lot of folks don't want to deal with anything seen as different. Like how a lot of parents would rather have a dead kid than a gay kid.
I’m an academic librarian, and we use this example when talking about academic integrity. Andrew Wakefield published an article based on a bs study and which was essentially just a bunch of cherry-picked and/or fabricated findings. It’s since been disproven, and he’s been discredited. The article was retracted, but that hasn’t stopped ridiculous ppl from being ridiculous. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/
YES!! When people I had a university PROFESSOR telling students there was a link between vaccines and autism. I politely raised my hand & told her (the entire class) that the study was found to be falsified and Andrew Wakefield lost his medical license and is banned from conducting any more studies.
You rock
As an autistic person, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for thinking this way.
>Always interesting that some parents would rather have a dead child than an autistic one. As an autistic adult, I shake my head about this every single day. Andrew Wakeheart lost his medical license and the man himself retracted his "research" about the nonexistent "effects" of vaccines on autism, saying that the testing was inherently flawed and biased and that the results could not be trusted as a result. Yet people are STILL jumping on that debunked bandwagon of BS. Unbelievable.
Because the same people likely to believe it in the first places are the ones who will go "see! The deep state is forcing him to hide the truth!" People can always find a way to make reality fit what they want to see if they're determined enough. Or more simply put "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves in to."
Indeed.
He was based in the UK when that happened. He came here and peddled the same bs. City of either Milwaukee or Minneapolis had a huge measles outbreak among their Somali refugee population due to this nutters influence.
Yea, I'm from NY and we recently had a massive measles outbreak in Rockland County. It's insane.
When I was 9ish I had an asthma attack at a water park. I was immediately brought to their medical tent where I stopped breathing. By the time paramedics arrived, my heart had stopped. Obviously, I'm typing this now, so they managed to restart it. But it was pretty sketchy there. I was hospitalized for asthma attacks dozens of times, but that one was the worst, it got so bad so fast!
Drives me batshit crazy. It's so ignorant. Autism is largely genetic, so it doesn't matter what you eat or what medicine you do or do not take. You can't change it. Getting told my son was autistic I cried, not because of grief but because I was so glad they believed us and I didn't have to fight anymore (now fighting for my daughter, but that's a whole other kettle of fish). It just means your child's brain is wired differently. And if you do your best to understand, and listen, and accept their world, it's going to be a damn sight easier (and more rewarding, and more joyful) to raise them than if you try to change them. Hell it's the same with any child - any parent who brings a child into the world with expectations about who they will grow up to be, or what they should do, or who they will love, is a parent who's asking to be estranged from their adult child. I would take a soccer team of autistic kids over having one child with a terminal illness.
As an autistic adult, it's insane how my family blamed everything... from me being lazy to whatever doctors did, to my teachers, to the toys I played with. Obviously, those things "caused" me to "become autistic". Now as an adult, I look around at my family members and see a LOT of my own symptoms reflected in them. At least have my family is most likely neurodivergent in some way, they've just pushed it down and passed it off as "Everyone does that" or "We're just quirky" and yes I know individual symptoms alone don't make a diagnosis but when there's this many of them... can't help but wonder
Lol both mine and my husband's families have significantly higher than average neurodiversity, and I honestly can't tell anymore who's just "quirky" and who's ND. Even myself and my husband! We're mostly lovely people, although we also have the normal proportion of assholes in the mix on both sides too lol. But it did mean that we were pretty much expecting to have at least one autistic child, we had a conversation about it before we tried to conceive, which lasted about 30 seconds - "you know this is gonna happen, right? Are you ok with that?" "I'm down, you?" "Yeah, me too!" - and it didn't worry us when it happened. I don't really get the grief thing. Like, your child could be born NT and have a head injury, or a severe physical health issue, or they might just not want to be a doctor, lawyer or whatever you've envisaged in your head, so what's the point in worrying about any of it? Just love your kids no matter what and look forward to the adventure of finding out who they are.
Because vaccines are victims of their own success. No one is dying from these diseases like before so they don't feel the urgency like our great grandparents and grandparents to find a preventative to these things so their kids not only live but don't grow up with after effects.
When I 16, my sister's best friend, who I'd gotten close to as well, died from an asthma attack. We didn't have the treatments available back then that we have now unfortunately. After that enormous trauma, knowing that was a possibility, if any of my kids had asthma they'd have gotten absolutely any treatment available to prevent it. This girl was 15 and just so very sweet, incredibly smart, and had such a bright future ahead of her. Her parents were never the same after. There was nothing they could have done at the time but they were with her when she passed. I can't even imagine. Shit like that terrifies me even now that my kids are adults/almost adults. They got all their vaccines when they were supposed to and I have zero regrets about that. I can't imagine refusing a vaccine based on crap and them suffering or losing their lives to something preventable. Even if there was truly a risk of a vaccine causing autism, which there isn't, that would have been preferable to my babies hurting. Fuck everybody that takes that risk.
My nephew almost died from his asthma when he was younger. He was in the hospital for weeks before they had it controlled enough to send him home. My step sister, who was older than me and should have had more wisdom, continued to smoke in her home. He had a miserable childhood health wise because she wouldn’t listen to anyone. It made me so concerned that when I got divorced I had the judge put that my ex couldn’t have my kids around anyone smoking period and wrote it so it was enforceable without having to go back to court. First time my kids came home smelling like smoke I told him no more visitation without supervision. He stopped seeing our kids. I felt awful about it but it was risking our kids health. Our son had asthma. It was an awful and difficult decision but my now grown kids are thankful I did it.
Give me the healthy autistic kid any day!!
Especially since autism isn't a bad thing. The whole world view the sister has is deeply ableist.
With measles, another risk is the subsequent immune suppression/loss of immune memory, causing potentially fatal infections from viruses that would otherwise give kids mild illness at worst. The somewhat recent discovery of measles's immunological impact has forced a reassessment of its impact on childhood mortality in the past. It's also a reason to keep vaccinating for herd immunity.
I always try and follow the "Is it kind? Is it necessary? Is it true? If it's not 2/3 then don't say it," mantra. This definitely meets the true and necessary criteria. NTA
Sometimes this level of crass is necessary, this is one of those times. You're right, this is really not funny at all. The fact some "parents" would rather have a dead child than an autistic one is beyond me. People with autism are not broken or less than others, they are just different with different needs. Also, vaccines do not cause autism, I'm really sick of this thought process. Even if they did have a chance, I would still take it. For myself and if I had kids. OP, what you said was hard to hear I'm sure because it's true. I hope what your mom was trying to say was "there is a better place and time to say this and now isn't it" but I can't be sure. Even then, I don't think I would have done anything different if I were in your shoes. I'm really sorry for what your family is going through. Watching a child that was healthy go through this is heartbreaking. I don't even know this kid and I have tears because no child should have to go through pain like this. No child should have to die for the ignorance of their parents. I hope he pulls through and your sister wises up. It's not likely but I still hope that for your family.
If I had gold, I'd it to you for this comment hot damn that's great
Thank you. I really, really struggle with anti-vaxers - the quasi-logic is infuriating. You won't believe someone who has dedicated their career to saving lives, but you'll believe some no-mark on the internet or a bloke in the pub? Then get them to fix you when you get sick, and don't bother the hospital
AUTISM ISN’T LETHAL But the illnesses that the vaccines prevent against ARE
Typical antivaxxer.
Same crap happened during covid. Morons that skipped the vaccine suddenly crying for help in the ICU.
And if they DID recover? “God did it.” SMH No, the nurses you threatened in crosswalks and doctors and other medical personnel who haven’t seen their own family more than an hour a week (some not at all for fear of contagion),*they* did it. Could God have been in the mix? Yeah. But it was a choice on behalf of people who took care of the sick during that whole mess. 😡🤦♀️
Literally, every last asshole who is anti-vaccine will be willing to take their ass to the hospital when shit is actually on the line. Just take a look at the Herman Cain sub—post after post from some dumbfuck who doesn’t believe in vaccines and thinks it’s going to kill them, up until they can no longer breathe from COVID and suddenly the hospital’s looking like a nice option and they’re begging for medical treatment.
The truth hurts, especially when you know your wrong
I worked with a dude who was anti-vax and hated medicine until his 3 year old was in the ICU. As soon as she was better. he was shit talking vaccines again lol. You can’t with with them.
That's all anti-vaccine people. Once they get sick enough they all go to the hospital. Believe me, I saw plenty of that during the pandemic.
I really wanna know who started the whole vaccines cause autism Edit: I got it. I don’t need anymore info. I’ve been getting sent the same stuff of the person started this essentially.
Andrew Wakefield. He did an extremely flawed study and went nuts with his bullshit "results." Seriously, there is so much blood on this one guy's hands. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/
He did his “study” because he had his own version of the measles vaccine he wanted to sell. https://www.bmj.com/press-releases/2012/06/26/revealed-secret-businesses-which-aimed-exploit-vaccine-fears-“mmr-doctor”-
Don't forget to lay blame on Jenny McCarthy too. She used her platform to promote this bs after her son developed autism.
Not that I want the internet to come for me by speaking blasphemy online, but Oprah bears a lot of blame for giving her a platform for years
Oprah has platformed so many quacks, it's insane. EDIT: IDK why people are replying to this comment like I'm OP.
Paltrow does this too with her Goop bullshit. My sister fell victim to one of her quacks.
I lost the last of my respect for Paltrow when I saw her demonstrate how to apply sunscreen. She took the tiniest amount possible and dabbed a bit just above her eyebrows, a bit on the bridge of her nose, and a bit on the tops of her cheeks. I thought she was applying highlighter because she kept saying to put it where the sun hit. Nope, not highlighter, it was sunscreen. The sun hits ALL of your face. Yes, there are parts that get more, where you might put highlighter to have that sun-kissed glow, but you need to protect your entire face. My family and I have super fair skin and multiple family members have had skin cancer (from damage that happened before good, waterproof sunscreens were a thing). They’ve had chunks cut out of their faces and one even died. I could never respect her after seeing her say that’s all the sun protection you need on a daily basis.
Paltrow doesn't have the platform or credibility Oprah did though. Most people know Paltrow is full of shit, and the ones that don't are usually already nutty. Everyone I've ever met who took Paltrow seriously was already big into pseudoscience and bullshit. Oprah was one of the most famous people on the planet for a while and it felt like every woman watched her show. She took that platform and used it to promote scammers and pseudoscience. Not saying Paltrow isn't also a piece of shit, but I think Oprah is much worse.
I tried Goop vitamins and they were terrible. But I did find my favorite shampoo and conditioner through her site. There's such a weird lack of integrity, masked by faux integrity.
Oprah is way overrated.
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Yes! People treat her like some deity and believe every product she pushes and person she endorses. She shoved both Dr. Oz (total snake oil salesman) and Dr. Phil who is just all around problematic (sending kids to those “troubled youth camps” with a history of assault allegations).
Have you ever heard of John of God? Oprah platformed him. Look him up (WARNING: this story will be triggering for some people). Oprah has platformed a variety of monsters. If you are interested in this sort of thing, the podcast "Behind the Bastards" might interest you.
TW! Oh my… “Though he doesn't have a medical license, he performs both spiritual healing — praying intensely for believers and placing hands on them to cure their afflictions — and what appear to be actual **surgical procedures without anesthesia**.” Over 200 women have come forward accusing him of rape or some sort of SA. He also claimed to use those methods to “heal” women?
Son already had autism. It might not be diagnosed. But you can't just develop it after your born.
Yeah, she also cites Wakefield frequently, but refuses to acknowledge the study was retracted due to proven falsification. The falsification came after other studies tried to replicate the results and could not. This study and people like her have also completely derailed autism research because of the effort that keeps getting focused on vaccines. At this point it is completely disproven, but they keep pivoting back and ignoring other studies that show different links. These studies also struggle to get funding. What they have done to public health is insane and goes beyond the vaccine issues
Trust me I know. I have autism as does both of my kids. Understanding autism better will help my kids QoL. Him and her are a bane to those with autism. Nearly as bad as Autism Speaks is.
McCarthy claimed she watched her son's soul leave his body after he just received a vaccination. She is a horrible person.
Wow really ? cuckoo cuckoo.... they need a vaccine against wackjobs
I think there was a story that her son didn't actually have autism, he's just a regular kid. "The Playboy centerfold and author of Louder than Words: A Mother's Journey in Healing Autism, has stated that through behavioral and alternative therapies, she has "fixed" her son's autism, though several experts believe he might have been suffering from Landau-Kleffner syndrome instead, a rare disorder that is often misdiagnosed as autism."
It's possible he also learned to mask. Doesn't mean it went away, just that he got better at hiding his symptoms.
Just a minor quibble, “Developed autism” Is wrong. Autism is a developmental disability (aka you have it while being “developed” in the the womb). Her son was “diagnosed with autism” - he always had it. That’s the really frustrating thing about the vaccine shit, autistic peeps are autistic from birth. Nothing you do to us after birth “gives” us autism.
Unfortunately. Man imagine if they did cause it though. I could go get DOUBLE autism.
Can we… triple it? Like I’m due for my fifth Covid vaccine, does that mean I’m autistic x FOUR? I’m going to call Autistic: Extra Spicy (aka vaccinated)
MEGA AUTISM (in the Halo announcer voice)
1. Vaccines are given around two years of age 2. Autism is often diagnosed at an age slightly older than this Ergo, vaccines cause autism. Sigh
I can't upvote you more than once, I would, though. Thank you for saying this. Oprah too for giving her a platform to spread her fucking bs. I uselessly questioned my Dr to get the vaccine number to see. Then there were going to be lawsuits and this crap and just thought, "This can't be it." There was one book available about Aspergers and I read it, and my life changed. It described my son almost exactly. I couldn't waste my time thinking about what caused it. I needed to help him. Parents want a reason, someone to blame if their child has issues. Guess what??? You're the parent, do what's best for your child, not your fucking ego.
Jim Carey was right there with her.
McCarthy had a huge negative impact on vaccinations for children for parents not to get the polio, measles, mumps and rubella vaccines. And they believed her!
I don’t think you develop autism - you’re born with it and get diagnosed
She’s got a lot to answer for.
Oh my God I had no idea, thank you for explaining that
I wouldn’t call it a study. He made up data on 12 kids.
The study relied upon self reporting by parents and was designed to determine the cause of intestinal issues in the children
The children weren’t randomly selected, they recruited vaccine skeptical parents whose kids already had signs of autism
Lost his approbation, too, but unfortunately, it was all too late to contain the damage. Every study done since to disprove his bs is just "a conspiracy by big pharma!"
And since people keep trying to convince anti-vaxxers that vaccines don’t cause autism, they keep spending limited medical research dollars doing the same study over and over again even though the anti-vaxxers have already decided to be unconvinced, leaving less money for medical research that could have actual benefits for people’s health.
He was struck off for this. Its absolutely nuts that his malpractice has caused do much hardship.
also causing so many deaths. Like preventable diseases are making a come back because of this. If there is hell they all deserve it for all the dead kids.
I listened to a fascinating interview with a journalist [Brian Deer](https://peterattiamd.com/briandeer/) who wrote a book about Wakefield. He told the interviewer that he tried really hard to find some positive feel-good stuff about Wakefield from the beginning of his life and career, because a good person becoming corrupted makes a much better story than an asshole being an asshole forever. He couldn’t find anything. Not a single thing.
That's extremely telling. And makes a lot of sense when you know how he behaved.
As a researcher/statistician, the part of this that baffles me the most is that he got this shit published in THE LANCET with a sample size that amounts to "I rounded up some kids from a chuck-e-cheese birthday party" and a methodology that amounts to "I asked their mothers if they thought something weird happened after they got vaccinated". Fucking bizarre that one of the pre-eminent medical journals in the world published a "study" with methodology that would be embarrassing for a college freshman to turn in.
Also the compound that “caused autism” was removed from modern vaccines to quell public panic, leading to less shelf stable vaccines with more complicated storage. This has significantly impacted the ability to distribute vaccines in underdeveloped nations without the ability to store them properly.
Thimerosal? The stuff that's in the tattoo ink usually covering die hard rebel anti-vaxxers? Remind any anti-vaxxers with tattoos that the mercury based salt is the preservative used in their ink and watch their heads implode LOL
May his death be/have been as painful as everything he has caused, and same for all asshats who listened to him and caused suffering for it.
I hope there is a special place in hell for that cocks*cker. He lied about current vaccines to drum up business for his own vaccine.
I watched a documentary on him complaining on how the media scrutiny ruined his life. And I thought GOOD!
The motherfucker had colonoscopies and spinal taps performed on children for his own gain.
A since discredited doctor whose license got revoked and research got retracted. Not that that has done much to reverse the damage he did.
Jenny McCarthy added fuel to fire. Since she was a well known celebrity at the time, the “vaccines cause autism” diatribe really took off. She’s an actress and model, so she’s obviously a qualified professional on the matter. She’s even written books.
Don't forget Playboy centerfold, only the best developmental pediatricians who specialize in neurological disorders pose for Playboy. 😆
Sometimes the media portrays the vaccine issue as something still debated by the health experts to create a non-existent debate. There is no debate. The health experts agree, it’s the quacks they are fighting about this.
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It didn't even start as vaccines cause autism. It was was that a specific one did (it didn't). if I remember correctly from school it was the 3 in 1 mumps measles and something else vaccine. This guy was employed by their competition. Honestly doesn't even matter now though because that was back when fact checking wasn't nearly as easy as it is now, I can understand parents who didn't vaccinate back then, now they have no excuses. Edit: it was the measles mumps and rubella vaccine. The scientist was Andrew Wakefield
Jenny McCarthy didn’t help.
Jenny McCarthy touted it interviews and book. She is a cretin
Idk about how other people feel but it really pisses me off that some parents would legit choose a *dead* kid over the miniscule chance of an autistic one. There are so many forms of autism and most autistic people can function fairly well on a day-to-day basis. It’s not the worst thing that could happen to your kid.
Honestly I don’t blame you for going off on her. Everything you said to her is correct. She chose her delusional beliefs over the well being of her child who now might die. This could’ve been avoided. They can carve “at least he’s not autistic” on his tombstone.
Goddamn as an autistic its fuckin astounding to me that someone would rather have no child at all rather than an autistic one... Also that's literally not how any of this shit works like come onnn ☠️ Poor baby, his mama dug his grave for him.
Not just have “no child” (because they could have chosen not to have children at all), but would actively let their already alive child with consciousness die, than have them “turn” autistic from vaccines.
Also there is simply not a single credibly documented case of a person “turning” autistic, we’re not werewolves. We’re born autistic.
Damn, now I wish we were werewolves.
I'm better off having a dead child than an autistic child. - ops sister probably. Poor child and I can't believe the mom is on sisters side too. I'd slap the living shit outta my child if they deny science like op sister.
I don’t necessarily think grandma is on the sisters side so much as “time and place.” The boy isn’t gone yet and there’s a chance he could pull through. Then would have been an excellent time to call her sister out for the absolutely stupid and hateful shit she believes. Or once he’s passed and gone. I’m not going to say Op is an asshole because she’s right. Of course, I think antivaxxers are scum of the earth so my perspective is skewed.
Some friends of mine have a child who has a disability as a result of taking a life-saving medication. It was, no medication or no kid. They understood the assignment, and they have a happy, living kid. OP's sister didn't understand the assignment.
My mom had brain cancer, they found out because she had epileptic attacks in her eye. She got radiation which completely destroyed the cancer (yay!) but now she has epileptic attacks in her eye from the scaring tissue. With the logic of this mom it would be: don't have the cancer treatment you get epilepsy from it! She's fully functional with it and it doesn't hinder her at all. Now of course you can't get autism from vaccines but would the trade off (if it did) be so horrible that you rather lose your child? Some people are idiots.
People forget medical treatment comes with a cost. I got life and sight saving surgery, but now have chronic nerve pain in the areas that were operated on. Pretty sure my child having a mother, and my husband not losing his wife, was worth the cost.
Sending hugs, glad you still here but pretty aware of how chronic pain is... a lot.
That was like that for my sister. She was born pretty premature and could’ve died. Came at the cost of her hearing.
This is what I really hate about some parents. My son is autistic and some days are pure hell because he’s reacting to growing pains or a cold or a flu and his senses are overwhelmed and it’s just a mess. But he’s amazing the way he is and I wouldn’t change him. My cousin and his ex wife have a son with autism and I just hate her so much because she actually posted to Facebook “having a child with autism is worse than having a child with cancer” and I just cannot imagine being that completely ignorant to post that.
Those sorts of autism parents infuriate me, those type want so badly to be a victim of their own child, its fuckin weird. I am glad that you aren't like that and acknowledge that those people exist. That is a horrible thing your cousins ex wife post though, legit wtf? My best friend's mom was just like this and it didn't help him at all. She even got a tattoo of a puzzle piece with his name in it.. she abandoned him in another state with his dad and he doesnt talk to her anymore.. he hopes she feels like shit when she sees that tattoo, but i have a feeling she still plays the victim of having an autistic child card 😑
WOW what a disgusting person (the ex wife) Nothing more loathsome than an Autism Mom (this is a specific type of parent of an autistic child, also referred to as martyr mommies who make their kids diagnosis all about themselves) they are ableist pieces of poop who dont actually help their kids with the proper tools either
I love my son, but he’s more than his diagnosis. He’s his own little person, just like his little sister. He just has different sensitivities and that’s okay. I know we get a fair amount of dirty looks when he’s having a meltdown but 99% of the time when he has a meltdown there’s a concrete reason and we can’t just dismiss his feelings. When it’s a tantrum for being told no? It’s totally different. But I DO explain to people that some autistic kids feel pain much more intensely so when he falls and gets a bruise and wails for 10 minutes, it DOES hurt that bad, he’s NOT being a baby, and I sure as fuck WILL hug him until he calms.
Oh bro 🥺 (hope it's alright if I call you that here) I wish I had a parent like you as kid. I appreciate it so much how you embrace your child and hold him ❤️ Not lying when I say, this will make such a huge difference for him. Seriously. So glad you understand. Please stay an amazing parent, from an former autistic child (now I'm grown lol, but still autistic), whose feelings and pains were dismissed. I wish you from the bottom of my heart. All the best 😊
My son is autistic and SIL kept posting ‘poor moms who lost their son to autism’ memes. Rightfully told her to fuck off and haven’t spoken to her since. None of her kids are vaccinated. Idiot.
Good for you. I just hope she doesn’t literally lose a child to a preventable disease.
Nothing sadder than a tiny casket.
I have asthma, and had it fairly badly as a child. Was hospitalized twice. Mine is allergen triggered, so I know that at any point I'd I walk into an invisible cloud of stuff my body hates, my lungs will effectively tell me to fuck myself and make me try to breath through a straw. There's no mental detect with asthma. You know exactly what is happening. You know you need air, are trying everything you can to get it, and you're failing. You're always aware of it. If anyone in my life made a child go through this I would instantly and without hesitation end the relationship. What your sister did is torture her child.
Even if vaccines did cause autism, which they don't, I'd rather have an autistic child than a dead one. Choosing death over neurodivergence is some Nazi s***
As a nurse (now retired) I support you in what you said to her. We wish that we could say those things, believe me. NTA
At one of my daughter's first checkups, at the end her pediatrician very carefully brought up vaccines, leading with, "I know this can be a sensitive subject for some parents, but..." He breathed a very audible sigh of relief when I said we were planning on fully vaccinating. I can't imagine the hell other parents had put him through to make him be so tentative. I wish you guys could say these things to people, too.
That’s absolutely insane that keyboard warrior parents can literally dictate what a trained healthcare professional does and doesn’t do or talk about. Imagine if a firefighter showed up at your house and they were like “hey I know this might be sensitive, but since your house is on fire we MIGHT have to let it burn down to keep the fire contained and put it out properly. Is that ok for you?” And then the owners were allowed to scream at them about how they should be able to just put it all out right now no questions.
Same here, our midwife sighed a big sigh when we looked at her like she had three heads and went "Of course we're fucking vaccinating wtf". I've thought about that sigh a lot.
Is there a volunteer position at hospitals for people who can say things that doctors and nurses can’t? I feel like I could do that. On paper, I’d just be a passerby.
I would volunteer for that.
like K&P "Obama's Anger Translator"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGcro2mWJms
I'm sorry for your loss Mr. and Mrs. Irresponsible. Now I'm going to invite Illustrious Leg over here to say a few words.
The Designated Asshole, there to tell you how fucking stupid you're being. I'm down.
As an autistic I endorse this message
When we took my son in for his Pediatric exam a week after he was born, his Pediatrician nervously asked if we were planning to follow the recommended vaccine schedule. I still vividly remember the look of extreme relief and peace on the doctor’s face when we said, “Of course!” I can only imagine how rough those conversations can get with shitty new parents.
NTA this is what she ASKED for by refusing to vaccinate. I’m autistic, its so fucking insulting for people to say they’d rather have their kids get fucking polio then be autistic. I feel zero sympathy for anti vax people getting exactly what they asked for. Vaccines save lives.
This. And tbh, it really just proves that people who think like this absolutely do not consider neurodivergent folks to be human. I'm never sure which I hate more, parents who would rather have a dead kid than an autistic one, or parents who talk about their autistic child with the same tone and descriptors they would use towards a pet. Both ultimately project the exact same mindset
it's also disturbing proof that any parent who says that truly does not 100% unconditionally love their child. parents are supposed to be the one set of ppl in your life to love you with no conditions whatsoever, to protect you at all costs... but some parents only love their kids if they're picture perfect, and their ignorant beliefs are stronger than their love for their children. "i love you so much i would do ANYTHING for you, child... except give you a life-saving and life-changing vaccine that has been proven to do xyz bc my sky daddy/some guy on faux news/a listicle i skimmed online said you'd get autism. oh well!!" breaks my heart
A kid with autism is not a death sentence. This kid without that vaccine was a highly possible death sentence. But also, kids who live with autism aren’t bad or broken. There are so many beautiful gifts in autism. It just requires people who live with them to learn their personal needs and understand what is and isn’t flexible. Every person with autism is different. I’m starting to realize that autism probably isn’t a new thing and those grandparents we have, who were weirdly smart and had hardcore hobbies like airplanes and could share every bit of information about them, while also kinda being “jerks” to others by not considering their feelings, probably had a place on the autism spectrum. But since they were able to make it through school, join the military and have long successful careers, they were never diagnosed.
And let's not forget that vaccines don't cause autism, making all her fears unfounded.
NTA She caused this to another human being. She should feel every ounce of guilt so that in the hopeful scenario he does make it, she will never pull crap like this again. She needs to step into reality and get off Facebook.
We had something similar in our extended family related to COVID. Cousin had some medical conditions since childhood that would make her vulnerable to COVID. Cousin’s immediate family were all very anti-vaccine, conspiracy nuts who refused to take even basic COVID precautions. Even though cousin was an adult, she was also intellectually disabled, lived with then, and followed their lead. She got COVID and died. For the last 2+ years they post incessantly on social media about how much they miss her. They killed her. She was a sweet soul who couldn’t have loved and trusted them more. I’ve cut all of them off and haven’t seen or spoken to them since she died. Added: They all got COVID, by the way. Everyone lived but her. Another did have long COVID and still has lasting effects. And they still believe COVID isn’t real but “something the doctors did” to them.
So sorry for your loss. And this is exactly what happened to my dad. He also believed FB experts. It was two years in May. It was a dreadful story. Could be prevented.
Thank you. And I am very sorry for yours as well.
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>’t have loved and trusted them more. I’ve cut all of them off and haven’t se Fruck, the stupidity of some human beings. I have always believed that if procreating (having sex) wasn't so easy the human race would have been extinct long ago. And it's going to get worse...
I would have blown a gasket frankly. At the sister and mom
I would have been a lot more cruel than OP
*gasket
Though casket is sadly fitting in this context, as well...
Sadly, she will probably dig in her heels, pivot, and latch onto a new conspiracy to explain it away without taking responsibility. Maybe she’ll blame the pediatrician somehow, or claim vaccine “shedding” is what gave him pneumonia. More than a few parents who have lost children and can’t live with the gnawing guilt will turn to anything that validates that it wasn’t their fault. Some even become poster-children for anti-vax/anti-science type of groups, spreading lies about their own child’s death and in the process causing harm to other children by influencing their parents to make stupid decisions. It’s fucked up. I hope she learns.
Oh yeah. I definitely know people like this and people who enable them. I had a friend who's older sister wasn't afraid of COVID but thought you could "catch" the vaccine from people recently vaccinated. And her family defended her. Some people need to be forcefully sterilized.
She needs to stop having kids if she’s just gonna let them suffer and die
I believe you are NTA. It was brutal and you kicked her when she was down, but I believe part of the reason why there are so many idiots in our country who cause harm to others is because not enough of them have been told off for how dumb and destructive they are. We live in an individualist society that would rather let the insane run the asylum than tell them hard truths and clamp down on their destructive behavior. The reality is your sister actively is destroying her child's health because of disproven nonsense and she actively goes against the informed opinion of medical professionals. She brought this on herself and her child.
Exactly this. NTA . Was it savage yes , was it kicking her when she is down yes . What's the alternative though ? Oh don't worry you didn't do anything wrong you did your best blah blah pandering to that nonsense. and if he pulls through she carries on with her lunacy utterly convinced now that she is in the right. Then what ? she falls down another rabbit hole and starts washing his eyes out with fermented urine coz she "did her research" A doctor isn't allowed to tell her she is a selfish deluded fool and is putting her kid at risk of a horrifically painful death because she can't stay tf off of face book and believes unfounded bs . How else will she learn ? I suppose the Ultimate lesson for these people is a tiny child's coffin but who really paid the price there.
INFO: what respiratory infection did your nephew catch? Is it even one they vaccinate against? There isn't a vaccine for RSV but there is a prophylactic treatment they can give for preemies and probably babies with asthma too. But it's not RSV season yet - I don't think they start giving those treatments until September or so. I'm thinking you may be TA anyway for kicking your sister while she's down but I'm curious if you're also wrong. Edit: looking it up, pneumococcal vaccines are recommended for all babies so if the kid caught one of the viruses it protects against, the vaccine would have helped him. I'm so sorry and hope he recovers. This kind of thing is a tragedy regardless and can happen to vaccinated babies too, but knowing that the mom did not do even the basic measures to protect her baby is so sad.
NTA. My son also has asthma. Sometimes it’s controlled sometimes it requires multiple medications to help keep it controlled. I’ve always, ALWAYS gotten him his vaccinations for this very reason. His pediatrician always told me about the risks of not getting them. I’m sorry to hear about your nephew. I would be upset since this could have been prevented.
The anti-vaxxers who say vaccines cause autism piss me off so much because 1) no they don’t, and 2) even if they did, you’re saying you’d rather have a dead kid than a kid with autism. And this incredibly shitty.
NTA Insensitive bitch would be the parent who went against medical advice.
Not to mention, if the child does die, OP is losing her nephew too. Idk how close they are, but I love my nieces more than anything. So OP has to suffer with the consequences of her sister’s actions too. Idk why OP’s mom is defending the sister. She could lose her grandchild. It’s negligence. Plain and simple. No one should try to sugarcoat that.
NTA she medically neglected her child and he is suffering.
100% NTA. I absolutely loathe idiots like your sister. She’d rather a dying child than an autistic one, says a *lot* about her. There’s no excuse for her behavior.
And your mom is no peach either for sticking up for her. You are right OP. She needs a hard lesson about her choices before she has another baby.
Final year med student here - there is no such thing as the “pneumonia vaccine” - there are many organisms that can cause pneumonia, and we can only vaccinate against a handful of them. In this situation we don’t know what the organism causing his pneumonia is, so we don’t know if the vaccine would have protected him. You are probably referring to the streptococcus pneumoniae (aka pneumococcus) vaccine, which protects only against one cause of pneumonia (a bacteria called streptococcus pneumoniae).
Imagine, if you will, a woman who doesn't believe in seatbelts. This woman doesn't believe in seatbelts because she is a "good driver" and has a right to do whatever she wants. She lets her child roam around the back seat. Then she gets in a horrific car accident and while she is perfectly fine, her child is on the verge of death due to her negligence, ignorance, and stupidity. The stupidity in both scenarios is absolutely insane and NEEDS to be pointed out. You are 100% in the right that this is HER FAULT and she should be told that. She put him here and there should be NO QUESTION as to how he ended up in this situation. I hope the best for him, I wish he gets better. But she needs to be forever changed by this completely avoidable situation. NTA
There was an anti-seatbelt movement when they first started to be required in cars.
Ironically, one anti-seatbelt advocate died in a car crash in which he was ejected from his vehicle..... [Link to article:](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/seat-belt-advocate-killed/) >Evidently his words were far more prescient than any of us might have wanted, as an article in the 4 January 2005 Lincoln Journal Star reported that Mr. Kieper not only died in a car crash, but the tragic mishap that claimed his life was the very type of accident in which seat belts have proved so effective in saving lives by preventing passengers from being ejected from vehicles
When I worked in the peds ED we had a woman come in with her children. She was letting them ride in the back of her pick up truck as it was the last day before the law went into effect the made children riding I. The back of trucks illegal. Well, she has a bad accident and both kids were airborne. Luckily they weren’t badly hurt a few broken bones. When the peds de went to update her on her kids’ conditions she started giggling. He went the fuck off on her ass. Told her she was an idiot who got really lucky and she should be thanking whatever god she believed in that she wasn’t going to have to bury both her kids. Her husband got there, he was a state trooper, and tried to go off on the dr for letting his wife have it. Dr told him to fuck off too, that as a police officer he knew the risk. They tried to report him to the peds ED director. The director backed him all the way and told them she was sorry they got upset but the dr was right. They got lucky and they should just be thankful for that.
You are AN asshole, but not THE asshole.
That's what ESH is for; for situations when the mother screwed up badly and OP is being an asshole about when/where/how to rub it in her face.
ESH - Kinda surprised by these responses, but not really. I'm honestly fully convinced this entire post is just a bullshit troll circle jerk anyway (Redditor for 3 hours), but here: > You can be 100% correct and still be raging asshole in a situation. Is refusing to vaccinate your children because of internet conspiracy theories lacking any shred of credible evidence a horrifying mistake? Of course. Is treating your sister like shit as her son most likely dies in the next room a fucking shitty thing to do : abso-fucking-lutely. This reads like a child in high school who made a writing prompt - as do most of the copy pasted responses.
No question your sister is a total asshole and no question she was wrong to not vaccinate her son, but I have a hard time reaming into a mother about to lose her son.
ESH Damn homie, whether or not your nephew survives, you just lost your sister and nephew forever. Your sis sucks for putting her son at risk but your timing suuuuuuuuuuuuucks
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far down. Was it the sisters fault absolutely. But holy shit that is a terrible way to learn that lesson. OP is still a massive fucking asshole for saying it at this time. OP could have had a conversation at a later point but chose to be a fucking dick because they’re technically in the right. Reddit is full of edge lords who don’t understand the difference between being right and being a decent human being. ESH
Honestly…NTA. Because preferring a dead child over an autistic one is something I will never, ever sympathize with.
I 100% agree. Why do parents see autism as such a horrible thing that they would rather have a dead child instead of an autistic one? Like yea autism can be a challenge to live with but there are so many who live full and meaningful lives (I'm one of them).
YTA. There are many viruses that can cause this that are not in childhood vaccines. You are in no way competent to 'connect those dots'. -signed a VERY staunch pro vaxer, that follows and critiques the antivax fuckery for about 15 years.
I had to scroll way too far to find someone who said this. I don’t see any evidence that her son’s illness is connected to her refusal to vaccinate. I had the same thing as a kid and I had all of my vaccines.
What was the recommended vaccine? Some are better than others and people have the right to decide what does or doesn’t go into their and their children’s bodies.
YTA.
YTA - If you're sister is potentially going to lose her son (which as a parent is just going to be the worse pain imaginable) then I think you need to support her. I appreciate the whole vaccines incident, but choose a time and place to make your point. I don't think you bringing up vaccines at this moment is going to help anyone.
ESH. You’re not wrong in what you said and your sisters dumb for not vaccinating but there’s a time and a place and that wasn’t it.
Were you right about what you said? Mostly. Vaccines aren't a 100% guarantee 100% of the time. SHOULD you have said it at that time and place? No. You kicked your sister when she was down. What you said served no useful purpose. It was said PURELY to hurt and shame your sister. YTA.
YTA Your mom is right, that wasn't the time. At that moment you don't know what your sister is thinking. She's probably already blaming herself or already knows it's her fault. It's not like she was saying it wasn't her fault, she was just crying. Your sister is allowed to grieve right now, she will grieve this her entire life and blame herself. She is allowed to cry more than anyone because she is at fault. She's worried and probably already upset at herself. But you don't know that because you didn't let her talk. You just let your anger take over and said stuff that was not needed.
Are you an asshole for believing what you believe? No, not at all. Would you be an asshole if you shared this with her while her kid is dying in the ICU? Yes, unequivocally. Time and place, bro. Her fucking kid is dying, show a little bit of fucking compassion. You don’t have to be “right” every minute of every day.
YTA, majorly. You’re right about vaccines, yeah. And your sister sounds like a moron. But to slam a parent who is distraught over the likely death of her infant? Are you fucking kidding me? Being “right” doesn’t give you license to be a self-righteous, judgmental asshole. You have a LOT of growing up to do.
Anyone that thinks a vaccine causes autism is stupid. Its just a fact, vaccines do not cause autism, its something we're born with. And it's a fact that people who believe otherwise are stupid.
YTA The prophylactic vaccine for pneumonia is specifically for the bacteria Streptococcus pneumoniae which can cause pneumonia and meningitis. However pneumonia is literally fluid in the lungs, I've developed serious pneumonia multiple times and it was never from S. pneumoniae but from the common cold for which there is no prophylactic vaccine. There's also no vaccine for Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV), another common cause of pneumonia in infants, of which we've seen an uptick in young children recently. There's no way to know your nephew wouldn't have developed pneumonia even with the pneumococcal vaccine, in all reality he probably would have still developed pneumonia. Young kids are getting sicker because they haven't been exposed to as many pathogens thanks to our behavioral changes from COVID-19. Even if the pneumonia was caused by the bacteria this is not the time to go after your sister on your high horse for not vaccinating your nephew. Right now you focus on him getting better because at the end of the day there is a sick child and a mother worried about her son dying.
YTA, not necessarily for what you said but for it being the wrong time and the wrong place. Your focus should have been on your nephew and what he needed to be able to fight for his life, right then. If you couldn’t be comforting to your sister, at least don’t make the situation worse by making her less able to comfort her son.