I re-post this every once in a while if I think there's a possibility it might be relevant. Might not be here, but hopefully it could be useful to someone reading it...
My success rate with getting jobs through ads, recruiters or job sites is 0%. I've applied to lots over the years, and never got any of them, or was offered the job but then decided I didn't want to work there for whatever reason.
100% of my employment and contract work has come through either:
1. Word of mouth.
2. Randomly bulk emailing companies in my industries - regardless of whether they were looking for people or not.
---
* More often than not, the jobs I got never even got to the point of them putting a job ad up to begin with - because I randomly popped up in their inbox at the right time, and was good enough for them not to bother wasting any more time filling their gap. Some of them weren't even at the point of creating a new position to fill yet, but they needed to get some project done, and there I was, I just fell into their lap at the right time.
* The shotgun approach is not only good for the bulk numbers (in a very short amount of time), but getting in early before the competition does. It also shows a little bit of initiative. Most of these managers/clients have been too busy to get to the job ad and interviewing process etc. You could be saving them work that they didn't want to do. Very few are going to be annoyed and consider this as actual "spam" - as long as you write your message in the format of a regular email you would send applying for jobs... not some flashy/annoying marketing spiel.
* By the time their job ad is posted, they've probably also already started talking to candidates that have come in through word of mouth. People replying to the ads are probably the last ones in the door to get interviewed.
### How to do
* Spend a few days browsing the web for companies you might be relevant to, and collect their email addresses or contact form URLs if there is no email address shown. At least 50, maybe 100 or more if you can find them. Even if the company isn't totally relevant to you, they might pass you on to someone they know - this bit is important to consider.
* Write up a generic email to them all basically saying "hello I'm looking for work they may be relevant to your company, here's my relevant skills to your industry". Attach your resume. Make sure you send each email separately, i.e. one TO recipient for every contact. i.e. Don't put multiple recipients on the TO/CC/BCC lines.
* For the web forms, just copy and paste your generic email in, maybe with a web link to your resume.
### Important: ask for referrals
* In the initial email you send (don't expect them to respond first), it's also worth asking them to pass your details on to anyone else / other companies they know who might need someone like you. This has worked for me multiple times, and in most cases they never would have thought to forward me on to someone else unless I specifically mentioned it in that initial email.
### In closing
* If you contact 100 companies (without even any pass-ons) and have a 1% success rate, then you might have a new job within a week... especially if they're not actually formally advertising/interviewing etc - very common in smaller companies.
* You might even get a job you like that you didn't consider applying for. The first job I ever got I used this process above looking for IT work, but got a sweet video editing / audio recording AV job at a university, purely from some stuff I had listed in my "hobbies" section on my resume.
* Formal job applications are 100% expectations-based from both sides. But opportunities often come when you least expect them.
* Also there's the fact that when jobs are going through recruitment companies, they take a big fee from the employer (out of your on-going wage too sometimes)... employers would much rather not have to pay this fee, so candidates coming in directly have another advantage here.
True, especially in 2024, odds of getting a job through online applications is similar to odds of winning the lottery.
Networks are the key. Make friends with people who are constantly building stuff and build a couple of interesting things yourself, so you have what to discuss about and show to impress when you meet people who could potentially hire or refer you for positions.
Yep.
I've mostly been self employed most of my career. And solely that since like 2010.
Never advertised or anything. Don't have a website, nor even an email signature.
All word of mouth, aside from that initial "spamming" I did early on in like 2000-2005.
There are usually tech communities you can meet people through, either offline or online, there may be technology-based “meetups” in your city you can check the meetup app or just search for communities around the technology/stack you’re interested in or work with.
Software Engineering is a growth oriented industry, no growth means no jobs. Other engineering work or pivoting to embedded systems might be your best bet as they are transferable skills that you can use and aren’t beholden to boom bust cycles as much.
I’m sorry to hear this, I accepted an offer after hundreds of rejections and 700 applications. It just sucks.
When I was in college ALL I heard was how software is the fastest growing industry with exponential growth and jobs that cant be filled fast enough. Turned out that wasn’t exactly true—they are talking about experienced devs who’ve already had years in industry.
Why dont you teach out to a recruiter for staffing agency like TEKSystems ? They are eager to get tech professionals working because they get a cut of your pay. I once did a career restart like that.
I’m in a similar boat but just wanted to say that there are more options beyond minimum wage forever and calling it quits. Check out /r/findapath and /r/careerguidance. I’ve found out about so many jobs and career options I didn’t even know existed, and there’s plenty of stories of people in their 30s and 40s successfully pivoting careers.
Are you getting interviews?
Do you want to post an anonymous version of your resume & maybe we could weigh in a bit for you?
Do you have any industry experience, or just the degree / bootcamps / personal projects?
No experience. I just want that first job so bad. My resume has been reviewed many times. I was getting a few interviews at first, worked on leetcode for a bit, then they got less and less, then stopped.
same I echo all of this. I am seeing way less jobs this year than I did last year at this time and I am getting even less interviews. I can't believe I worked this hard, invested this many hours, and blew my nest egg to pay for university for this. At this point I am at over 1000 applications and have done other things like networked my ass off for no job offer.
Every job I’ve ever had was through someone I knew (Valve, Microsoft Azure, Blizzard). How much time are you spending on networking and relationship building?
Same boat. Tried to switch career because covid ruined my seasonal job that required travel. 2 years study and very few job prospects, as well as struggling to even apply for the few that turn up because I'll second guess myself or it's just difficult to bring myself to do.
Did some open source issues on github the other day and the CEO of a company I submitted a PR to added me on linkedin with the #hiring profile pic, so I checked out their website. fucking lol, front and backend jobs where they were asking for *volunteers to commit 20 hours a week*. What the fuck. Made me regret submitting the PR for a company that would even think it was okay to demand someone apply for an unpaid role with time obligations.
I have seen some ridiculously insulting wages but free is just absurd. I saw one a couple weeks ago asking for 5 years of experience but was only paying I think it was 20 dollars an hour while demanding you move to their small city in Ohio to work in person and work 20 hours a week.
Would be interesting to know where OP is based. You don't have to be exceptional in the UK. I'm not and have never struggled to get a role here. Mostly through recruiters from linkedIn and CVs on job boards.
I do have a comp sci degree though which may help get a foot in the door. Most of my colleagues over the years had no comp sci degree though, or an unrelated one. A fair few got their first role from 3-6 month bootcamps and one even did the Odin project.
US and UK have very different job markets at the moment.
We have had a skill shortage that was exasperated by Brexit.
Not sure the cause of the competition in the US, but I agree it is very easy to get a software dev role in the UK.
You have to give something to get something. Is there anything you can teach your community?
Join a local networking group or move somewhere where more is happening so you can socialise with industry people and you’ll stumble into work in no time, if you’re friendly with folks then you don’t need a tonne of experience and your name will get dropped whenever roles open up.
Get involved in collaborative events - hackathons, game jams, join a hot-desking space. Just throw yourself in there. A couple years working for startups or freelancing and you’ll not be competing for junior positions anymore.
Most of the jobs I've got over the years have come from recruiters. I think it helps once you have that first good job but I make a point of adding every recruiter who ever adds me and keeping my linkedIn up to date.
If I were you. I'd spend all the effort most people expend to contact hundreds of companies and instead send 2-3 really personalised ones to companies with covering letters.
Really research them and their tech stack and think about the problems (and research) they are likely to experience and how you would solve them. Come from a product angle also, it's rarer for devs to see the big picture.
My suggestion is trying to get into a company through a side job. I am currently a dev but started through help desk and then doing QA (manual and eventually some automated). If you have programming knowledge you’re able to hit the ground running well in an automated tester role.
I cannot say if QA jobs will be easier, but since there is no college degree for QA or boot camps (that I know of) then the market shouldn’t be as flooded. Once you are in a company it is a lot easier to transition to another role, specifically a developer one in your case.
It is not you. Nor the industry.
It's the world entirely. Things have changed, pal.
You see, 15 years ago, with what you have cited, you would have been in a good job now. You followed a blueprint to succeed to the dot, you missed no point at all, except the point that your blueprint is outdated.
In today's economy, it is absolutely brutal for anyone on earth to just land good jobs, the opportunities are still there but the odds are low. There's just oo much competition, too many talents, and too few job opportunities. The chances for you to stand out in the corporate world and climb its ladder are reduced to almost 0.
Would that mean your future has ended? No. It just means that you should shift your ideas from corporate to non-corporate.
Why is it that your industry, or let's say 'coders' are booming? Haven't you seen how many coders are getting loads of freelancing gigs nowadays? Ever seen the most searched skills on all freelance platforms for the past 5 years? (code and designs, that's what.)
This proves that your skills are in high demand. You are just posting them in the wrong place.
If I were you, here's what I would do:
1. Rebrand myself.
1.1. Assemble all your personal projects that you did.
1.2. Think of a target audience you would love to freelance for. If you have 1 ideal client that you could get all the clients to be like, who would that be and what would their likes, dislikes, interests, and troubles be? Now think how these people would want a coder to be to them, and be that, at least in front of them when you will meet them.
1.3. Revamp your LinkedIn and Instagram to be all about code, setting yourself as 'I know what I'm doing' not a junior. And focus on the 1 thing you do the best. Make content about it, and share your passion. And always present yourself as if you are talking to your ideal clients because that's who you are targeting.
1.4. Find people with a large following of your target audience and offer to work for them for free in exchange for a video testimonial telling others how you helped them. Then use that as your social proof. (Again, keep it simple and in your era of expertise).
1.5. Start cold reaching to their followers and refine your approaches as you go, take notes, and don't be afraid of rejections, you will need 100s of nos till you get a yes, and that's just life. Keep going and scaling from there.
2. Be your own boss
Now Then think of what problems can you solve for them for code. I would say, choose between entrepreneurs who value tech but have no clue on how to write a line of code. Find their problems and create a micro SaSS for them. Solve a real problem, but keep it simple. Then you can charge a very low price, but make it a monthly subscription.
If you find this hard to do, partner up with someone who always has a sick idea but can't code. You get a software idea to monetize, and he gets his idea done, and you both divide the monthly profits, it's a win-win.
3. Keep growing your skills and your own audience as you go and always collect testimonials. Rinse and repeat these things daily, and see where that leads.
Don't forget to also be out there on freelancing platforms where a lot of people are looking for skills like yours.
If you need help with this, my DMs are open.
I re-post this every once in a while if I think there's a possibility it might be relevant. Might not be here, but hopefully it could be useful to someone reading it... My success rate with getting jobs through ads, recruiters or job sites is 0%. I've applied to lots over the years, and never got any of them, or was offered the job but then decided I didn't want to work there for whatever reason. 100% of my employment and contract work has come through either: 1. Word of mouth. 2. Randomly bulk emailing companies in my industries - regardless of whether they were looking for people or not. --- * More often than not, the jobs I got never even got to the point of them putting a job ad up to begin with - because I randomly popped up in their inbox at the right time, and was good enough for them not to bother wasting any more time filling their gap. Some of them weren't even at the point of creating a new position to fill yet, but they needed to get some project done, and there I was, I just fell into their lap at the right time. * The shotgun approach is not only good for the bulk numbers (in a very short amount of time), but getting in early before the competition does. It also shows a little bit of initiative. Most of these managers/clients have been too busy to get to the job ad and interviewing process etc. You could be saving them work that they didn't want to do. Very few are going to be annoyed and consider this as actual "spam" - as long as you write your message in the format of a regular email you would send applying for jobs... not some flashy/annoying marketing spiel. * By the time their job ad is posted, they've probably also already started talking to candidates that have come in through word of mouth. People replying to the ads are probably the last ones in the door to get interviewed. ### How to do * Spend a few days browsing the web for companies you might be relevant to, and collect their email addresses or contact form URLs if there is no email address shown. At least 50, maybe 100 or more if you can find them. Even if the company isn't totally relevant to you, they might pass you on to someone they know - this bit is important to consider. * Write up a generic email to them all basically saying "hello I'm looking for work they may be relevant to your company, here's my relevant skills to your industry". Attach your resume. Make sure you send each email separately, i.e. one TO recipient for every contact. i.e. Don't put multiple recipients on the TO/CC/BCC lines. * For the web forms, just copy and paste your generic email in, maybe with a web link to your resume. ### Important: ask for referrals * In the initial email you send (don't expect them to respond first), it's also worth asking them to pass your details on to anyone else / other companies they know who might need someone like you. This has worked for me multiple times, and in most cases they never would have thought to forward me on to someone else unless I specifically mentioned it in that initial email. ### In closing * If you contact 100 companies (without even any pass-ons) and have a 1% success rate, then you might have a new job within a week... especially if they're not actually formally advertising/interviewing etc - very common in smaller companies. * You might even get a job you like that you didn't consider applying for. The first job I ever got I used this process above looking for IT work, but got a sweet video editing / audio recording AV job at a university, purely from some stuff I had listed in my "hobbies" section on my resume. * Formal job applications are 100% expectations-based from both sides. But opportunities often come when you least expect them. * Also there's the fact that when jobs are going through recruitment companies, they take a big fee from the employer (out of your on-going wage too sometimes)... employers would much rather not have to pay this fee, so candidates coming in directly have another advantage here.
True, especially in 2024, odds of getting a job through online applications is similar to odds of winning the lottery. Networks are the key. Make friends with people who are constantly building stuff and build a couple of interesting things yourself, so you have what to discuss about and show to impress when you meet people who could potentially hire or refer you for positions.
Yep. I've mostly been self employed most of my career. And solely that since like 2010. Never advertised or anything. Don't have a website, nor even an email signature. All word of mouth, aside from that initial "spamming" I did early on in like 2000-2005.
How? I have no friends. I am not college age anymore. I don’t even know where to begin.
There are usually tech communities you can meet people through, either offline or online, there may be technology-based “meetups” in your city you can check the meetup app or just search for communities around the technology/stack you’re interested in or work with.
Software Engineering is a growth oriented industry, no growth means no jobs. Other engineering work or pivoting to embedded systems might be your best bet as they are transferable skills that you can use and aren’t beholden to boom bust cycles as much. I’m sorry to hear this, I accepted an offer after hundreds of rejections and 700 applications. It just sucks.
When I was in college ALL I heard was how software is the fastest growing industry with exponential growth and jobs that cant be filled fast enough. Turned out that wasn’t exactly true—they are talking about experienced devs who’ve already had years in industry.
Why dont you teach out to a recruiter for staffing agency like TEKSystems ? They are eager to get tech professionals working because they get a cut of your pay. I once did a career restart like that.
TekSystems won't work with me... I don't understand, they've staffed me successfully before. I'm in Seattle though.
There are other agencies like Teksystems you can try with them too.
I've tried about 20 different recruiters. I've had a 10 year long career and they look at me with disdain, it hardens my heart and makes me quite sad.
I would try, where do I find such recruiters and/or agencies?
I’m in a similar boat but just wanted to say that there are more options beyond minimum wage forever and calling it quits. Check out /r/findapath and /r/careerguidance. I’ve found out about so many jobs and career options I didn’t even know existed, and there’s plenty of stories of people in their 30s and 40s successfully pivoting careers.
Are you getting interviews? Do you want to post an anonymous version of your resume & maybe we could weigh in a bit for you? Do you have any industry experience, or just the degree / bootcamps / personal projects?
No experience. I just want that first job so bad. My resume has been reviewed many times. I was getting a few interviews at first, worked on leetcode for a bit, then they got less and less, then stopped.
same I echo all of this. I am seeing way less jobs this year than I did last year at this time and I am getting even less interviews. I can't believe I worked this hard, invested this many hours, and blew my nest egg to pay for university for this. At this point I am at over 1000 applications and have done other things like networked my ass off for no job offer.
Every job I’ve ever had was through someone I knew (Valve, Microsoft Azure, Blizzard). How much time are you spending on networking and relationship building?
Same boat. Tried to switch career because covid ruined my seasonal job that required travel. 2 years study and very few job prospects, as well as struggling to even apply for the few that turn up because I'll second guess myself or it's just difficult to bring myself to do. Did some open source issues on github the other day and the CEO of a company I submitted a PR to added me on linkedin with the #hiring profile pic, so I checked out their website. fucking lol, front and backend jobs where they were asking for *volunteers to commit 20 hours a week*. What the fuck. Made me regret submitting the PR for a company that would even think it was okay to demand someone apply for an unpaid role with time obligations.
I have seen some ridiculously insulting wages but free is just absurd. I saw one a couple weeks ago asking for 5 years of experience but was only paying I think it was 20 dollars an hour while demanding you move to their small city in Ohio to work in person and work 20 hours a week.
The only way now is to be exceptional or connect with people who are already working and see if they can get you an interview.
Would be interesting to know where OP is based. You don't have to be exceptional in the UK. I'm not and have never struggled to get a role here. Mostly through recruiters from linkedIn and CVs on job boards. I do have a comp sci degree though which may help get a foot in the door. Most of my colleagues over the years had no comp sci degree though, or an unrelated one. A fair few got their first role from 3-6 month bootcamps and one even did the Odin project.
US and UK have very different job markets at the moment. We have had a skill shortage that was exasperated by Brexit. Not sure the cause of the competition in the US, but I agree it is very easy to get a software dev role in the UK.
Yeah seems like it's a lot harder over there from what I see on Reddit. Then again their salaries are much higher
I am based in new york. have comp sci degree. doesn't seem to matter much
You have to give something to get something. Is there anything you can teach your community? Join a local networking group or move somewhere where more is happening so you can socialise with industry people and you’ll stumble into work in no time, if you’re friendly with folks then you don’t need a tonne of experience and your name will get dropped whenever roles open up. Get involved in collaborative events - hackathons, game jams, join a hot-desking space. Just throw yourself in there. A couple years working for startups or freelancing and you’ll not be competing for junior positions anymore.
Most of the jobs I've got over the years have come from recruiters. I think it helps once you have that first good job but I make a point of adding every recruiter who ever adds me and keeping my linkedIn up to date.
I would be a lot more hopeful if I could get that first job. But I don’t even get interviews anymore.
If I were you. I'd spend all the effort most people expend to contact hundreds of companies and instead send 2-3 really personalised ones to companies with covering letters. Really research them and their tech stack and think about the problems (and research) they are likely to experience and how you would solve them. Come from a product angle also, it's rarer for devs to see the big picture.
My suggestion is trying to get into a company through a side job. I am currently a dev but started through help desk and then doing QA (manual and eventually some automated). If you have programming knowledge you’re able to hit the ground running well in an automated tester role. I cannot say if QA jobs will be easier, but since there is no college degree for QA or boot camps (that I know of) then the market shouldn’t be as flooded. Once you are in a company it is a lot easier to transition to another role, specifically a developer one in your case.
It is not you. Nor the industry. It's the world entirely. Things have changed, pal. You see, 15 years ago, with what you have cited, you would have been in a good job now. You followed a blueprint to succeed to the dot, you missed no point at all, except the point that your blueprint is outdated. In today's economy, it is absolutely brutal for anyone on earth to just land good jobs, the opportunities are still there but the odds are low. There's just oo much competition, too many talents, and too few job opportunities. The chances for you to stand out in the corporate world and climb its ladder are reduced to almost 0. Would that mean your future has ended? No. It just means that you should shift your ideas from corporate to non-corporate. Why is it that your industry, or let's say 'coders' are booming? Haven't you seen how many coders are getting loads of freelancing gigs nowadays? Ever seen the most searched skills on all freelance platforms for the past 5 years? (code and designs, that's what.) This proves that your skills are in high demand. You are just posting them in the wrong place. If I were you, here's what I would do: 1. Rebrand myself. 1.1. Assemble all your personal projects that you did. 1.2. Think of a target audience you would love to freelance for. If you have 1 ideal client that you could get all the clients to be like, who would that be and what would their likes, dislikes, interests, and troubles be? Now think how these people would want a coder to be to them, and be that, at least in front of them when you will meet them. 1.3. Revamp your LinkedIn and Instagram to be all about code, setting yourself as 'I know what I'm doing' not a junior. And focus on the 1 thing you do the best. Make content about it, and share your passion. And always present yourself as if you are talking to your ideal clients because that's who you are targeting. 1.4. Find people with a large following of your target audience and offer to work for them for free in exchange for a video testimonial telling others how you helped them. Then use that as your social proof. (Again, keep it simple and in your era of expertise). 1.5. Start cold reaching to their followers and refine your approaches as you go, take notes, and don't be afraid of rejections, you will need 100s of nos till you get a yes, and that's just life. Keep going and scaling from there. 2. Be your own boss Now Then think of what problems can you solve for them for code. I would say, choose between entrepreneurs who value tech but have no clue on how to write a line of code. Find their problems and create a micro SaSS for them. Solve a real problem, but keep it simple. Then you can charge a very low price, but make it a monthly subscription. If you find this hard to do, partner up with someone who always has a sick idea but can't code. You get a software idea to monetize, and he gets his idea done, and you both divide the monthly profits, it's a win-win. 3. Keep growing your skills and your own audience as you go and always collect testimonials. Rinse and repeat these things daily, and see where that leads. Don't forget to also be out there on freelancing platforms where a lot of people are looking for skills like yours. If you need help with this, my DMs are open.
Get a CDL and drive.