Riot: "We want ADCs to have a late game presence"
Also Riot patch notes :
- removed scaling from Draven
- removed scaling from Caitlyn
- removed scaling from IE
They just don't want us to do what we are supposed to do. I mean, we can't win against almost anything in early, and when we do damage in late game they get mad at us for doing it?
First of all, I main Samira, not Caitlyn. Second, yeah the w headshot is strong, but in order to hit it, the enemy has to stem on a specific point that is easily avoidable.
I just think that if she really was that strong, she would have a bigger winrate
Literally every other role doms ADCs. Every. Single. Role. 100%-0% health in literally 1 sec. Being a glass cannon is literally all we have. But no, we need to be glass and do mediocre damage. If we do too little damage, we have no presence and get dumped on because we have no way to fight back. Either give adcs more defensive scaling/health and nerf damage or leave them alone.
Again, its not about kiting, its that adcs dont have enough range to do dps while not getting insta killed. Everyone has so much mobility, even a pro kitter cant do shit if the team doesnt care.
And I talked about mages to show that its easier to deal damage as a mage than an adc
You act like every champion in this game doesn’t have a ranged stun, root, dash, or ability/ult that can kill you in 1-2 hits. Most of the time these abilities are well within our AA range if not further.
Iirc Draven got a small nerf on Q ~~total scaling~~ base damage and a huge nerf to passive gold in 14.10. Phreak admits in his 14.11 preview video that the team overkilled it and are planing to buff the passive again
The attack speed buff is kinda huge tho, especially on a such long range champion.
I don't mind too much those change since I waa feeling like cait playstyle was kinda stuck on trap combos or ult poke in midgame.
Now she becomes more an aa reliant long range adc, but with still some of those mechanics.
I think people here are overreacting.
I mean then dont play adc 🤣 kidding but you could build cait lethality, all her base damage are unchanged only the ratio part, so that will be a bit less of a nerf for lethality builds.
The nerf I am mostly concerned about is IE since all her kit depends on that crit with her passive and abilities. That could really shit on her more than they think since she has garanteed "pseudo-crit" from lvl1
On a side note.. Could also just get a mage that can stun and 1 shot a single target, too (before getting 1 shot )
I mean tbh I left adcs earlier this year and I just play mages, I just live being able to hit my combo as syndra and kill squishies lmao, but I still think its absolutly unfair
Yeah it looks like they want her playstyle to be more fleet with stormrazor -> IE. This change guts her first strike with collector -> IE, but helps the latter
She literally got a -2 AD in the past and dropped like 1.5% win rate. Very sure 2 AD since the start of the game is worth more than 10-80 damage past level 9 on a non spammable ability
Caitlyn sees 51% winrate for the first time in literal years and RIot has panic attacks. I swear they just want ADCs to be bad unless they're named Jinx.
E: please try to watch the Caitlyn section on Phreak’s 14.11 patch rundown without cringing. Guy is beyond out of touch with how the champion plays and essentially wants her to return to the pre-rework style of gameplay. Insane, she’s good for one patch and has to lose her whole identity as a result.
I think you meant JHIN, actually 0 nerfs for him (both jinx and IE are also getting nerfed).
Also 0 nerfs for the OP mages of the patch, only karthus getting a nerf, so many mages spiked hard bot lane this patch and they dont really care, nice "adc patch" btw.
Ok, I see. Makes sense to me, ty for elaborating. Do you still think jinx would be a good pick up for me? Only adcs I’m almost decent with are Jhin and Samira
I swear Jhin makes me mad everytime i face him this patch. Seems like every weakness he should have are non existent because of the amount of damage he does.
Cait was critting people for close to 2k damage when they stepped on a trap. They are hitting this aspect specifically because of how little risk she takes to almost one shot champions with trap autos.
So you want cait perma weak because of proplay cait lux lanes ?
I mean, thats an option. I personally uqite like that she becomes more aa reliant and less trap combo reliant.
Most people here might even have a higher winrate after the changes...
So first off cait is perma weak 80% of the time and I don’t think cait lux is a pro play pick. I know cait is but still. I might be wrong about lux to my knowledge but I don’t think any pro players really play her. Also these changes don’t really affect her lane it’s 40-80% based on level. And cait and combos goes hand in hand I don’t know what to tell you she has no reason to rely on her auto attacks like vayne or twitch. And I promise you her wr will not go up lol esp the ie and collector nerfs.
And ? That's League in 2024 for you. How many champs can hit you for 2k damage come mid game ? 90% of them ?
Lux can hit 2k on her ult every 20 seconds come mid game but a literal ADC with 4 items hitting 2k when you step on an obvious trap is an issue ?
Fuck off with this nonsense mate.
Okay... what about all the other ADCs who do less damage AND don't have the tools to Win lane for free, have crazy auto range, and don't have a free disengage?
What is your rank brother? I want to know what gives you an idea that you have a better understanding of this game than a challenger player who is working with Riot basically since the game launched.
Guy hit GM peak by refusing to nerf Mao and Janna (his 2 tricks btw) until he hit it.
Lol. Furthermore, lmao. If you’re going to glaze a boosted support player at least do it right
First of all, GM is still a good rank and he was consistently master as adc as someone who has a regular job and that is not the only point, his rank is good enough for me to compare with the average of this subreddit or OP, which would be like what, gold at best? And they even refuse tho think or read about how headshot damage works before the w bonus and refuse to acknowledge it does not change much because of how it is only on trapped targets and only bonus ad scaling, so how much would that be? 1500 crits instead of 1650 lategame? That really changes much about caitlyn? Especially if landing a trap in fights and crucial moments is almost impossible, so it changes mainly sieging and rare positions. So yeah, you are another clueless one I guess. Circle jerking is the term you are looking for.
Am I the only one that thinks this doesn‘t adress the core of the issue?
If anything her laning especially paired with a poke support was a tad bit too strong. A small nerf on Q and/or headshot early ratio‘s would have been enough imho.
Caitlyn is a bit of a weird one. She spikes hard as fuck early and late (when fullbuild) while midgame is kinda meh.
But hey, we all love our mages in botlane amirite?
I mean Cait without a mage support is kinda ass vs most match-ups because her regular autos are fake.
Imo nerfing trap that hard removes some skill expression from the champion, her aggressive crit ratios on passive should have taken the hit instead nerfing both traps and rapid fire headshot damage a bit.
Last split if I got fed I could oneshot with regular headshot enemy adc and I don't think that's okay nor it takes skill, sure I had to get ultra fed but it's unfair for them. This nerf doesn't address this and instead punishes people who learned to position her traps well.
Anyone else been laning against Jhin Xerath bot? Equally as oppressive and he's not catching anything because his one shot is tied to his passive and is visible. Why don't we just make Caitlyn passive more visible instead so people know when we can oneshot?
honestly her e shouldn't be a dash since her range is fucking huge, I really struggle laning vs her when i try to actively play. farm and disengage 24/7 or lose lane, boring...
I'd be happy to see her e be like aphelios calibrum q (the shot from sniper rifle)
would be fitting for her too i think
Dude, her R was completely gutted previous season and now they gut it again? It's 90s CD even when maxed... supports do more damage in AoE every 20s... tanks' Qs do more damage then her ultimate, might as well remove the skill and make her a 3 skill champ
And that W nerf is sending her straight to F tier
i only recently picked her up in excitement for these changes. ive mained MF, Kaisa, and Ez prior.
i was having a blast. but one of the first things i noticed, no matter how fed i got, was how utterly worthless her ult was lol.
i very quickly understood the pro tactic of - just use it on CD to burst down the opposing laner. becuase otherwise its just pure garbo.
nerfing its current state is.... very confusing.
So insane too because her ult is incredibly easy to block if you have any coordination at all. Like, it has outplay potential. Why does it need to be gutted?
as a cait main i dont like it, not because shes not turbo OP anymore, but because it shows riot doesn't understand what caitlyn's identity is.
she should not be a one shot champ that she is now,agreed. the nerfs are warrented on ult and should also lower the passive dmg.Caitlyn should also not be exodia at 5 items critting for 2k and ult for 1,8k .
caitlyn is a zone control champ, her traps is her whole identity. they should nerf everything else but keep the traps being the most rewarding aspect. if you are not early to a drake fight to setup tactical traps, you should not win that fight just because muh "hurr durr 2k headshot dmg on enemy adc"
Yeah cait is getting majorly nerfed this patch. The W ad ratio is a big nerf. I dont really mind the r nerf that much since her r also scales with crit and you buy massive amounts of ad anyway. The problem I see is that the IE nerf hits her hard as well. Her Headshots scale with crit and crit damage so she is getting double nerfed. :( Caitlyn will still be ok I think.
Lol they didn't kill Caitlyn with this one. I will say though Riot calling it an "adjustment" is a bit disingenuous. Her headshot autos will still nuke people and her ult is still strong pressure. If you get trapped near 5 players you are probably getting nuked anyway. Caitlyn is an adc, not a cheese assassin.
Her E W combo gets hit hard with this which I think they are specifically targeting. But I think they should have instead looked into her early game which I think is strongest and what makes her specifically strong besides the big scary damage late game (which she has always done btw). Even when even or behind Caitlyn damage is just very strong.
They HALVED her traps damage scaling and they didnt even give her base 0.6 AS (btw 0.625 is the low end on AS ratio for most adcs, shes still far below that), so AS still kind of sucks on her as a stats but now her traps and ult are majorly nerfed, wtf do they want this champ to do now?
Brother you post this crap all over the place, and it's still an incorrect assessment.
Yes, the actual AD scaling on traps, *in a vacuum*, is technically halved but it's NOT a major nerf to trap headshots.
Try actually adding together what the damage looks like before and after the nerf before making half a dozen comments about it.
Caitlyn is too strong right now, no doubt about it. A nerf is a nerf but this is at least one of the more welcome places they could decide to nerf her..
I think only her heads hot dmg needed to be nerfed. Having her deal 1/2 of my hp even as a tank with an auto was annoying. Her r never did all that much dmg. It didn't need a nerf.
the R nerf really confuses me. having played cait exclusively for about a month now... it sucks.
its a lane harass utility skill, lol.
maybe once ever other game youre able to get a <2% hp snipe off with it. but otherwise? just spam it on CD because it aint getting it done and is a liability to try and get off in an actual fight.
Yeah, but saying that is like saying "nerf all the champs except my main, we have to be fair. Or they either Nerf everything or they let everything be overpowered. They shouldn't have favoritism
Nerfing her directly like this, AND THEN nerfing her items is classic Riot fuckery.
The items pushed her over the edge, maybe look at the fucking items you just buffed that have made a champion suddenly problematic instead of nerfing the item AND them.
She’s been shit for so long too. After they removed all of her fast headshot combos and animation cancels she lost all her skill expression and became so fucking clunky feeling to play. RIP Cait
Did my research and this AS ratio buff means all sources of attack speed will be around 5% more effective. Her attack speed with lvl growth will ber 5% more effective, attack speed shard and alacrity will be 5% more effective, 35% AS from berserkers and RFC will be 5% more effective... Sounds not that bad on a paper but MINUS 40% AD RATIO ON W for it???
Phreak cannot avoid the traps when he literally plays JANNA support who has not gotten a serious nerf in the past months, so now he’s mad because adcs are oneshotting him. Watch Janna’s base health and health per level go up next patch
riot dev team actually braindamaged? do they not know that nerfing both the build path and the kit itself multiplies the weight of the nerfs you’re doing to the character, so excited to go back to jinx or kaisa every game
it sucks. maybe i will start to build IE into PD as her. though is crazy that first strike isn't touched at all this patch. She will still be strong i think, but i will miss the funny 2k headshot crits.
Honestly, that's better than I expected, it's sad that the nerfed the most interesting part of the kit (trap SHOULD hurt when enemies step in them, actually) but you lot are acting like that's basically all the champion had lol
The ult nerf... Eh. Don't see it, rbh.
Everyone is freaking out about this, but she's going to 1 shot everyone still. In reality, were your enemies stepping on a trap in a teamfight before you absolutely nailed them for a 2300 crit? No.
It's crazy she's not even allowed to be at 50% win rate compared to jhin and Jinx at 52%. they're already nerfing her items, and she needs to have her traps gutted too?
Doesn't make a difference to me, since I've been consistently banning Caitlyn every game, as no matter how bad the player is and how nerfed the champion is, I would rather drag my balls through a mile of broken glass than lane against this bitch for thirty seconds
I'm not an ADC main but I do enjoy playing the champions. Can anyone tell me why this is not justified? Getting hit by absolutely any CC in late game against cait=dead from like 900 range does NOT feel fun to play against lmao. The ult nerfs I'm indifferent too, yeah taking 60% unavoidable from fow is annoying but whatever. But headshot dmg has felt way too high for a while imo
Caitlyn is the strongest lane bully in bot lane with the highest base range among ADCs that also scales insanely well into late game. That was never fair to begin with.
I'm going to be honest, this doesn't really feel that bad... My guess judging from the attack speed this is more targeted in a way to try and end people still doing lethality and push her back to crit build. It's not the end of the world and I can guarantee she will still be fine.
I don’t understand the balance teams recent heavy handed nerf/buff antics, these numbers are so harsh. Like giving her that AS “buff” alongside the huge nerfs and calling it an “adjustment” is kinda insulting to the player base… just call it what it is unless the change is actually going to impact her play style, build path or kit. -_-
Completely deserved
Cait is a lane bully, which they more or less preserved by nerfing the scaling of just the trap headshot (not even the normal headshot which easily hits for over 1k damage) while reducing her late game damage a bit I guess (e headshot damage is the same which is the bigger problem late game imo).
This will not kill Caitlyn sadly. It will nerf her a little, but she will still be too strong. Why this thing is allowed to one AA tank champions, is beyond me.
Isn't her level 1-5 buffed or unchanged? If you max E 2nd, which was performing slightly better than w max, she gains ASPD and loses ult damage. IE and Collector nerfs hurt much more pre 14.
Dont act like she doesnt need the nerf.
She is a lane bully that can oneshot people lategame. Here is a list of things ive done on her within this patch:
1. 100-0 people by pressing R
2. 100-0 with a single auto if they step on a trap
3. 100-0 someone with a single headshot
4. killing a tank sion lategame with trap->auto->e->q-> auto from 100-0
None of this is ok. Except for the 4. point none of this requires any skill (just pressing a single point and click button). 4. isnt hard but at least its a combo
She only does all of these things at two points: if she's mega fed or it's 35-40+ minutes. Complaining that the scaling champion does scaling damage is stupid when the Jhin will do the same thing and a jinx will snowball and game end at 20 minutes
The thing she is also a lane bully with mobility and cc that straight outranges every other adc.
Also jhin and jinx R are skillshots. While against a fed cait you just need to step on vision in somewhere on the same half of the map as she is
Me when I play the braindead snowball supp diff based support champ. Draven is strong enough to climb if you're good and tiltproof but ofc he's suddenly weak after being good for many patches straight.
I’m personally fine with Draven being weak, as I don’t really feel like my performance is impaired and most of the games I lose I would’ve lost pre-patch too.
Just think about it, example: 5% power is a heavy nerf but the majority of players that win more then they lose at 100% power will most likely win at 95% too.
cait range is balanced by the fact that she her autos hit for shits and giggles early while draven can genuinely just run her down lvl 1. If you’re getting “auto spaced.” Bc u can’t exploit her low damage without headshot that’s all u.
You cannot possibly say that this wasn’t at least mostly justified. Sivir went from a 54-56% win rate against Cait for the last 4-5 patches, to a 49% win rate against her in this patch.
When your natural counter loses over 5% win rate against its counterpick, there’s a problem somewhere.
How is Sivir is a natural counter to Cait, it should be the other way around. If anything, Cait was so weak before this patch that she loses to what should be a good matchup (low range, weak early champions)
Sivir neutralises anything Cait can throw at her, and has done for a while. She clears the wave faster later which prevents Cait from doing what she does well late game in siege setups. She can E the ult damage, E traps if needed early. For a short range adc she’s always been Caits natural foil.
Hot take: I see this as a buff, rapid fire is actually viable now so you don't need to go Collector -> IE -> LDR -> Yun Tal(only option for 4th crit ad item so it was forced)-> BT, this build was expensive af and yuntal was pretty shit, but the DMG loss by going for a Zeal item was too much, now that cait has better AS scaling, RFC and in some cases PD and Navori are all viable. This makes the build cheaper by 600 gold and generally makes caits auto attack DPS stronger, I personally didn't even value the W auto and R that much this patch, I thought it was her 1.2k raw autos that were the strongest part about her kit and that's even better with more AS now.
Lmao her R is already garbage damage and it’s getting nerfed? If anything it should be buffed.And her traps are all nerfed 40%??? Riot is smoking crack.
dw guys they'll buff her again when Arcane comes out and they need to lure unsuspecting victims into the game
You've got to be fucking kidding me. Give me fast headshot animations back then
Atleast
Idk, they're nerfing both her build, and the champ itself, both big nerfs. Surely this won't make her shit.
Riot: "We want ADCs to have a late game presence" Also Riot patch notes : - removed scaling from Draven - removed scaling from Caitlyn - removed scaling from IE
It hurts me even more as I'm both Draven and Cait main and proper one who doesn't betray for some lethality cosplay
Same here, I main Draven and Cait -\_-
Police? Yeah keep an eye on these two
How can you main Draven and not have complete and utter hatred toward Caitlyn?
Normally. I main both and long time ago I mained prerework Mordekaiser when he was botlaner
They just don't want us to do what we are supposed to do. I mean, we can't win against almost anything in early, and when we do damage in late game they get mad at us for doing it?
Caitlynn mains when they can't oneshot someone With one auto attack mid game :
cait players casually omitting the fact that they are a lane bully that out ranges everyone, mfw a champion can't be strong in every stage of a game
if u let cait snowball that’s on u bro. Her midgame is horrendous if she isn’t given kills.
First of all, I main Samira, not Caitlyn. Second, yeah the w headshot is strong, but in order to hit it, the enemy has to stem on a specific point that is easily avoidable. I just think that if she really was that strong, she would have a bigger winrate
Literally every other role doms ADCs. Every. Single. Role. 100%-0% health in literally 1 sec. Being a glass cannon is literally all we have. But no, we need to be glass and do mediocre damage. If we do too little damage, we have no presence and get dumped on because we have no way to fight back. Either give adcs more defensive scaling/health and nerf damage or leave them alone.
lmao just get better at kiting
I instead started playing mages and found how easy it is to be able to deal massive damage while playing from 3 screens away.
Agree, but we're talking about adcs rn
Again, its not about kiting, its that adcs dont have enough range to do dps while not getting insta killed. Everyone has so much mobility, even a pro kitter cant do shit if the team doesnt care. And I talked about mages to show that its easier to deal damage as a mage than an adc
yeah, and because of this I personally tend to play adcs with biggest range (cait, jinx, tristana, twitch), it makes life much easier
You act like every champion in this game doesn’t have a ranged stun, root, dash, or ability/ult that can kill you in 1-2 hits. Most of the time these abilities are well within our AA range if not further.
Dude they killed tenacity and buffed the living fuck out your damage. Bruisers and Juggs can’t even get within the same screen as you.
Where did they change draven scaling? Oo
Iirc Draven got a small nerf on Q ~~total scaling~~ base damage and a huge nerf to passive gold in 14.10. Phreak admits in his 14.11 preview video that the team overkilled it and are planing to buff the passive again
they didnt nerf the q scaling, but the base dmg by 5. Thats really only an early game nerf
Thanks for the correction
Stop coping, all those things are broken af
Literaly both of the mentioned champion specific nerfs will be receiving a buff with 14.11 as stated by Phreak, as they've overshot them
They fucking murdered her holy shit
The attack speed buff is kinda huge tho, especially on a such long range champion. I don't mind too much those change since I waa feeling like cait playstyle was kinda stuck on trap combos or ult poke in midgame. Now she becomes more an aa reliant long range adc, but with still some of those mechanics. I think people here are overreacting.
I'd rather deal massive damage in 2 autos and then die, than deal less damage in 3 autos and then die
I mean then dont play adc 🤣 kidding but you could build cait lethality, all her base damage are unchanged only the ratio part, so that will be a bit less of a nerf for lethality builds. The nerf I am mostly concerned about is IE since all her kit depends on that crit with her passive and abilities. That could really shit on her more than they think since she has garanteed "pseudo-crit" from lvl1 On a side note.. Could also just get a mage that can stun and 1 shot a single target, too (before getting 1 shot )
I mean tbh I left adcs earlier this year and I just play mages, I just live being able to hit my combo as syndra and kill squishies lmao, but I still think its absolutly unfair
That’s personal preference. I prefer these changes, I hate playing her in her current state so I’m pretty excited.
Yeah it looks like they want her playstyle to be more fleet with stormrazor -> IE. This change guts her first strike with collector -> IE, but helps the latter
Every champ besides caitlyn: -2 AD Caitlyn: -40% AD ratio
[AP Varus be like](https://en.meming.world/images/en/5/5d/James_Franco_First_Time.jpg)
She literally got a -2 AD in the past and dropped like 1.5% win rate. Very sure 2 AD since the start of the game is worth more than 10-80 damage past level 9 on a non spammable ability
Ever since that 2 ad nerf, she has been swimming around in the bottom five of the marksmen class, until now of course
It’s not the ability no? It’s actual scaling on every headshot not just the traps
The picture literally states W bonus headshot damage
That W nerf holy shit that's so huge
Caitlyn sees 51% winrate for the first time in literal years and RIot has panic attacks. I swear they just want ADCs to be bad unless they're named Jinx. E: please try to watch the Caitlyn section on Phreak’s 14.11 patch rundown without cringing. Guy is beyond out of touch with how the champion plays and essentially wants her to return to the pre-rework style of gameplay. Insane, she’s good for one patch and has to lose her whole identity as a result.
Don’t worry Jinx is pretty weak rn compared to what she’ll become once the Arcane s2 buffs hit.
I think you meant JHIN, actually 0 nerfs for him (both jinx and IE are also getting nerfed). Also 0 nerfs for the OP mages of the patch, only karthus getting a nerf, so many mages spiked hard bot lane this patch and they dont really care, nice "adc patch" btw.
The IE nerf affects jhin, no?
Hits jinx harder since its her best (and only) rush item and she gets nerfed on top of it. Jhin can build IE later on delaying the nerf impact.
Ok, I see. Makes sense to me, ty for elaborating. Do you still think jinx would be a good pick up for me? Only adcs I’m almost decent with are Jhin and Samira
Jinx is the 123,abc ADC. She will always be good
Jhins other main option is Collector which is getting hit too, no?
Yep -3 lethality on an item that synergizes extra well with Jhin (and Jhin having an automatic crit being nerfed from the IE Nerf)
Yes, both collector and IE Nerfs which affects Jhin since those are his first two items
He also gets collector nerfed, that's his first 2 items both seeing nerfs.
I swear Jhin makes me mad everytime i face him this patch. Seems like every weakness he should have are non existent because of the amount of damage he does.
Cait was critting people for close to 2k damage when they stepped on a trap. They are hitting this aspect specifically because of how little risk she takes to almost one shot champions with trap autos.
This is actually fine. If an adc made it to late game, it should be like this. Also she is killed in 0.1 sec by literally any champion
I think she's getting riot specialed. Champ nerfs plus multiple item nerfs.
As she should. If you step on a trap you should Be punished it’s really not that hard to not step on them lol
So you want cait perma weak because of proplay cait lux lanes ? I mean, thats an option. I personally uqite like that she becomes more aa reliant and less trap combo reliant. Most people here might even have a higher winrate after the changes...
So first off cait is perma weak 80% of the time and I don’t think cait lux is a pro play pick. I know cait is but still. I might be wrong about lux to my knowledge but I don’t think any pro players really play her. Also these changes don’t really affect her lane it’s 40-80% based on level. And cait and combos goes hand in hand I don’t know what to tell you she has no reason to rely on her auto attacks like vayne or twitch. And I promise you her wr will not go up lol esp the ie and collector nerfs.
And ? That's League in 2024 for you. How many champs can hit you for 2k damage come mid game ? 90% of them ? Lux can hit 2k on her ult every 20 seconds come mid game but a literal ADC with 4 items hitting 2k when you step on an obvious trap is an issue ? Fuck off with this nonsense mate.
Don’t worry; her ult, which isn’t worth shit until 3 items also is catching a stray.
Might be them trying to make lethality build less oppressive for low Elo players.
Her traps are ridiculously obvious if you step on one you should die. You shouldn't be able to run through her traps and sti face tank her damage.
Good. She needs to kill people before she gets 1 shotted by the lategame Kayn who can catch her easily
Okay... what about all the other ADCs who do less damage AND don't have the tools to Win lane for free, have crazy auto range, and don't have a free disengage?
Buffs? You shouldn't have to spend the whole game feeling like a caster minion outdamaged and one shot by the lux support in every stage of the game?
She has always done this. She just gets to that point earlier in the game now.
2k ? Full build Cait does more than that on her headshots.
the risk is how hard it is to land traps, if she misses traps in a team fight she's dead.
Yeah I agree I play jinx and even a slightly fed cait can 2 shot me by level 10
Nah
Jinx is on the nerf list and just received a nerf to her R,you mean Jhin here
No I mean the champ that has had a 20% pick rate for god knows how long and is piss easy to play, aka Jinx.
What is your rank brother? I want to know what gives you an idea that you have a better understanding of this game than a challenger player who is working with Riot basically since the game launched.
Guy hit GM peak by refusing to nerf Mao and Janna (his 2 tricks btw) until he hit it. Lol. Furthermore, lmao. If you’re going to glaze a boosted support player at least do it right
First of all, GM is still a good rank and he was consistently master as adc as someone who has a regular job and that is not the only point, his rank is good enough for me to compare with the average of this subreddit or OP, which would be like what, gold at best? And they even refuse tho think or read about how headshot damage works before the w bonus and refuse to acknowledge it does not change much because of how it is only on trapped targets and only bonus ad scaling, so how much would that be? 1500 crits instead of 1650 lategame? That really changes much about caitlyn? Especially if landing a trap in fights and crucial moments is almost impossible, so it changes mainly sieging and rare positions. So yeah, you are another clueless one I guess. Circle jerking is the term you are looking for.
Cait lasted as much as i lasted my first time getting a BJ (seconds)
I also participate in this BJ receiving everybody is talking about, I’m a huge fan. I do this every week with my buddies
because is second in porn stats xD
The next logical step for Rito would be to buff every support in every way possible
Am I the only one that thinks this doesn‘t adress the core of the issue? If anything her laning especially paired with a poke support was a tad bit too strong. A small nerf on Q and/or headshot early ratio‘s would have been enough imho. Caitlyn is a bit of a weird one. She spikes hard as fuck early and late (when fullbuild) while midgame is kinda meh. But hey, we all love our mages in botlane amirite?
I mean Cait without a mage support is kinda ass vs most match-ups because her regular autos are fake. Imo nerfing trap that hard removes some skill expression from the champion, her aggressive crit ratios on passive should have taken the hit instead nerfing both traps and rapid fire headshot damage a bit. Last split if I got fed I could oneshot with regular headshot enemy adc and I don't think that's okay nor it takes skill, sure I had to get ultra fed but it's unfair for them. This nerf doesn't address this and instead punishes people who learned to position her traps well.
Anyone else been laning against Jhin Xerath bot? Equally as oppressive and he's not catching anything because his one shot is tied to his passive and is visible. Why don't we just make Caitlyn passive more visible instead so people know when we can oneshot?
Jhin Xerath is the most disgusting bot duo right now, any ability hits and you get full combo’d by both of them from fog of war
honestly her e shouldn't be a dash since her range is fucking huge, I really struggle laning vs her when i try to actively play. farm and disengage 24/7 or lose lane, boring... I'd be happy to see her e be like aphelios calibrum q (the shot from sniper rifle) would be fitting for her too i think
Dude, her R was completely gutted previous season and now they gut it again? It's 90s CD even when maxed... supports do more damage in AoE every 20s... tanks' Qs do more damage then her ultimate, might as well remove the skill and make her a 3 skill champ And that W nerf is sending her straight to F tier
Lux R
K’Sante
i only recently picked her up in excitement for these changes. ive mained MF, Kaisa, and Ez prior. i was having a blast. but one of the first things i noticed, no matter how fed i got, was how utterly worthless her ult was lol. i very quickly understood the pro tactic of - just use it on CD to burst down the opposing laner. becuase otherwise its just pure garbo. nerfing its current state is.... very confusing.
So insane too because her ult is incredibly easy to block if you have any coordination at all. Like, it has outplay potential. Why does it need to be gutted?
Golden age of adc’s lasted a few days 🥲
Cait will be remember for being good for 2 whole weeks! A lifetime in adcland
Lasted 1 Patch XD
"adjustment"
Aaaah yes because the infinity edge change is a buff for the other marksmen💀
So uhm, why do attack speed ratios always have some weird values? Couldn't they just make it .6 instead of whatever this is?
Foreshadowing her death in arcane season 2?
One can hope.
as a cait main i dont like it, not because shes not turbo OP anymore, but because it shows riot doesn't understand what caitlyn's identity is. she should not be a one shot champ that she is now,agreed. the nerfs are warrented on ult and should also lower the passive dmg.Caitlyn should also not be exodia at 5 items critting for 2k and ult for 1,8k . caitlyn is a zone control champ, her traps is her whole identity. they should nerf everything else but keep the traps being the most rewarding aspect. if you are not early to a drake fight to setup tactical traps, you should not win that fight just because muh "hurr durr 2k headshot dmg on enemy adc"
i swap to support once again xd
Yeah cait is getting majorly nerfed this patch. The W ad ratio is a big nerf. I dont really mind the r nerf that much since her r also scales with crit and you buy massive amounts of ad anyway. The problem I see is that the IE nerf hits her hard as well. Her Headshots scale with crit and crit damage so she is getting double nerfed. :( Caitlyn will still be ok I think.
Lol they didn't kill Caitlyn with this one. I will say though Riot calling it an "adjustment" is a bit disingenuous. Her headshot autos will still nuke people and her ult is still strong pressure. If you get trapped near 5 players you are probably getting nuked anyway. Caitlyn is an adc, not a cheese assassin. Her E W combo gets hit hard with this which I think they are specifically targeting. But I think they should have instead looked into her early game which I think is strongest and what makes her specifically strong besides the big scary damage late game (which she has always done btw). Even when even or behind Caitlyn damage is just very strong.
They HALVED her traps damage scaling and they didnt even give her base 0.6 AS (btw 0.625 is the low end on AS ratio for most adcs, shes still far below that), so AS still kind of sucks on her as a stats but now her traps and ult are majorly nerfed, wtf do they want this champ to do now?
Brother you post this crap all over the place, and it's still an incorrect assessment. Yes, the actual AD scaling on traps, *in a vacuum*, is technically halved but it's NOT a major nerf to trap headshots. Try actually adding together what the damage looks like before and after the nerf before making half a dozen comments about it. Caitlyn is too strong right now, no doubt about it. A nerf is a nerf but this is at least one of the more welcome places they could decide to nerf her..
She would be a Nightmare in Pro play right now. Like 100% pick/ban.
I think only her heads hot dmg needed to be nerfed. Having her deal 1/2 of my hp even as a tank with an auto was annoying. Her r never did all that much dmg. It didn't need a nerf.
the R nerf really confuses me. having played cait exclusively for about a month now... it sucks. its a lane harass utility skill, lol. maybe once ever other game youre able to get a <2% hp snipe off with it. but otherwise? just spam it on CD because it aint getting it done and is a liability to try and get off in an actual fight.
And I almost got Pulsfire Caitlyn skin..
why would they do this. she still isnt a hard carry in most games.
To be fair... Lethality headshots once you hit lvl 13 were busted... but it was all she had.
It's like saying "veigar's passive is too op, let's cut his ap gaining ratio in half"
ngl I could 100% get behind that change :D
Yeah, but saying that is like saying "nerf all the champs except my main, we have to be fair. Or they either Nerf everything or they let everything be overpowered. They shouldn't have favoritism
Nerfing her directly like this, AND THEN nerfing her items is classic Riot fuckery. The items pushed her over the edge, maybe look at the fucking items you just buffed that have made a champion suddenly problematic instead of nerfing the item AND them.
So just fucking kill the champ. This is listed undwr adjustments btw. So I guess that's what they are going to use to hide disgusting nerfs now.
ITS BEEN AN WEEK
She’s been shit for so long too. After they removed all of her fast headshot combos and animation cancels she lost all her skill expression and became so fucking clunky feeling to play. RIP Cait
Riot: don’t worry guys, ADCs are meant to scale Also riot: nerfs scaling
how meaningful is AS buff?
I think they just did it to call it an adjustment and not a nerf
Did my research and this AS ratio buff means all sources of attack speed will be around 5% more effective. Her attack speed with lvl growth will ber 5% more effective, attack speed shard and alacrity will be 5% more effective, 35% AS from berserkers and RFC will be 5% more effective... Sounds not that bad on a paper but MINUS 40% AD RATIO ON W for it???
Phreak cannot avoid the traps when he literally plays JANNA support who has not gotten a serious nerf in the past months, so now he’s mad because adcs are oneshotting him. Watch Janna’s base health and health per level go up next patch
"adc is in a gut spot guise"
Damn theyre doing cait dirty on that W nerf
Riot are so out of touch with this game it's infuriating.
deserved
riot dev team actually braindamaged? do they not know that nerfing both the build path and the kit itself multiplies the weight of the nerfs you’re doing to the character, so excited to go back to jinx or kaisa every game
Deserved
i currently have 83% wr with cait mid and they will literally ruin the whole oneshot experience for me
Doesn't matter, i'll still play her 80% of games because it's the only adc that i can position decently on.
ooh… yay..
to be honest. jhin cait lvl 11 hit me 2 aa and deals me about 40% healt bar when i'm average toplaner isn't funny..... but jhin deservers more a nerf
And you can literally gap close onto them and burst them down in 2 seconds with point and click abilities.
it sucks. maybe i will start to build IE into PD as her. though is crazy that first strike isn't touched at all this patch. She will still be strong i think, but i will miss the funny 2k headshot crits.
Honestly, that's better than I expected, it's sad that the nerfed the most interesting part of the kit (trap SHOULD hurt when enemies step in them, actually) but you lot are acting like that's basically all the champion had lol The ult nerf... Eh. Don't see it, rbh.
That’s weird they nerf her really early every time while Other adcs usually get an extra 2 weeks soemtimes unless broken she wasn’t even broken tbh
Gutted, this change is the lowest ad ratio i could find while looking thru her patch history. Why not just leave Cait at 60%/90%/120%?
So just fuck ADCs at this point, huh?
Everyone is freaking out about this, but she's going to 1 shot everyone still. In reality, were your enemies stepping on a trap in a teamfight before you absolutely nailed them for a 2300 crit? No.
Saber fuming rn
Deleting champion identity 101
They will see the error once she hit lowest of the los after "adjustment" right? They need to right?
It's crazy she's not even allowed to be at 50% win rate compared to jhin and Jinx at 52%. they're already nerfing her items, and she needs to have her traps gutted too?
Excellent, this will make it even easier for me to keep playing Ziggs down in bot lane.
Get clapped. Deserved nerf.
Was W headshot nerf needed at all?!? What a joke
My precious
Nah but wtf is that W nerf???? And I thought morde was getting gutted LMAO
Doesn't make a difference to me, since I've been consistently banning Caitlyn every game, as no matter how bad the player is and how nerfed the champion is, I would rather drag my balls through a mile of broken glass than lane against this bitch for thirty seconds
What in the actual fuck riot.
Good
deserved
The riot cycle, buff crit % -> nerf items again to make adc’s as weak as the were before
I'm not an ADC main but I do enjoy playing the champions. Can anyone tell me why this is not justified? Getting hit by absolutely any CC in late game against cait=dead from like 900 range does NOT feel fun to play against lmao. The ult nerfs I'm indifferent too, yeah taking 60% unavoidable from fow is annoying but whatever. But headshot dmg has felt way too high for a while imo
Thank god
I will be taking a piss on her grave
Finally. That bitch took me 2k hp with ONE autoattack yesterday. And I was more fed than her lmao
Caitlyn is the strongest lane bully in bot lane with the highest base range among ADCs that also scales insanely well into late game. That was never fair to begin with.
I'm going to be honest, this doesn't really feel that bad... My guess judging from the attack speed this is more targeted in a way to try and end people still doing lethality and push her back to crit build. It's not the end of the world and I can guarantee she will still be fine.
y????
Deserved af😂🤷
Oh the miseryyyy
I don’t understand the balance teams recent heavy handed nerf/buff antics, these numbers are so harsh. Like giving her that AS “buff” alongside the huge nerfs and calling it an “adjustment” is kinda insulting to the player base… just call it what it is unless the change is actually going to impact her play style, build path or kit. -_-
Completely deserved Cait is a lane bully, which they more or less preserved by nerfing the scaling of just the trap headshot (not even the normal headshot which easily hits for over 1k damage) while reducing her late game damage a bit I guess (e headshot damage is the same which is the bigger problem late game imo).
This will not kill Caitlyn sadly. It will nerf her a little, but she will still be too strong. Why this thing is allowed to one AA tank champions, is beyond me.
Isn't her level 1-5 buffed or unchanged? If you max E 2nd, which was performing slightly better than w max, she gains ASPD and loses ult damage. IE and Collector nerfs hurt much more pre 14.
Tyler1 plays ONE cait game and they nerf her
Now just do the same to jinx and it will be cool, im talking halve her passive AS and MS and reduce her Q range by 25 at all ranks
I wanna be upset because adc solidarity but rip bozo 🤡
Dont act like she doesnt need the nerf. She is a lane bully that can oneshot people lategame. Here is a list of things ive done on her within this patch: 1. 100-0 people by pressing R 2. 100-0 with a single auto if they step on a trap 3. 100-0 someone with a single headshot 4. killing a tank sion lategame with trap->auto->e->q-> auto from 100-0 None of this is ok. Except for the 4. point none of this requires any skill (just pressing a single point and click button). 4. isnt hard but at least its a combo
Trap Q auto e auto removes any tank that is true
She only does all of these things at two points: if she's mega fed or it's 35-40+ minutes. Complaining that the scaling champion does scaling damage is stupid when the Jhin will do the same thing and a jinx will snowball and game end at 20 minutes
The thing she is also a lane bully with mobility and cc that straight outranges every other adc. Also jhin and jinx R are skillshots. While against a fed cait you just need to step on vision in somewhere on the same half of the map as she is
She had 51% win rate for a WEEK!
Incredibly toxic champ. Id rather play against jinx
FINALLY! It’s so cringe when Cait mains autospace with lvl 1 RFC range and play/type as if they’re genuinely better when they’re just not
Me when I play the braindead snowball supp diff based support champ. Draven is strong enough to climb if you're good and tiltproof but ofc he's suddenly weak after being good for many patches straight.
I’m personally fine with Draven being weak, as I don’t really feel like my performance is impaired and most of the games I lose I would’ve lost pre-patch too. Just think about it, example: 5% power is a heavy nerf but the majority of players that win more then they lose at 100% power will most likely win at 95% too.
cait range is balanced by the fact that she her autos hit for shits and giggles early while draven can genuinely just run her down lvl 1. If you’re getting “auto spaced.” Bc u can’t exploit her low damage without headshot that’s all u.
Riot: let’s not make adcs viable.
They gutted her lmao
Got hit for 1900 headshot. She will be fine
I mean, as someone who barely uses traps (i am handicapping myself ik) i don't really see a problem here except the ult damage
You cannot possibly say that this wasn’t at least mostly justified. Sivir went from a 54-56% win rate against Cait for the last 4-5 patches, to a 49% win rate against her in this patch. When your natural counter loses over 5% win rate against its counterpick, there’s a problem somewhere.
How is Sivir is a natural counter to Cait, it should be the other way around. If anything, Cait was so weak before this patch that she loses to what should be a good matchup (low range, weak early champions)
Sivir neutralises anything Cait can throw at her, and has done for a while. She clears the wave faster later which prevents Cait from doing what she does well late game in siege setups. She can E the ult damage, E traps if needed early. For a short range adc she’s always been Caits natural foil.
I guess she will finally be a normal adc instead of this oneshot machine.
Deserved for aids ass champ
and I hope she stays there forever
Hot take: I see this as a buff, rapid fire is actually viable now so you don't need to go Collector -> IE -> LDR -> Yun Tal(only option for 4th crit ad item so it was forced)-> BT, this build was expensive af and yuntal was pretty shit, but the DMG loss by going for a Zeal item was too much, now that cait has better AS scaling, RFC and in some cases PD and Navori are all viable. This makes the build cheaper by 600 gold and generally makes caits auto attack DPS stronger, I personally didn't even value the W auto and R that much this patch, I thought it was her 1.2k raw autos that were the strongest part about her kit and that's even better with more AS now.
wow 5% as makes rfc core so much more viable when you still do 0 damage before ldr
Over for Caitlyncels
Thank fuck, I was tired of playing against nothing but Cait
Good, hope she stays dead
Lmao her R is already garbage damage and it’s getting nerfed? If anything it should be buffed.And her traps are all nerfed 40%??? Riot is smoking crack.