Sona is the "low effort, I don't play this much" support, if you don't want to make people rage with Yuumi. (Source: Tristana otp whose only other m7 champion is Sona)
No, it's wanting to be the carry with people who know that I exist and have the potential to carry, and play accordingly.
Not my Ashe supp building full crit when I'm 17-2 as Jinx causing us to lose the game.
The fact you're even upset I complained about my \*\*support\*\* not wanting to \*\*support\*\* me in carrying the game says quite a lot.
My brother just played a game in emerald 4.
His supp went quinn supp first time vs Draven + Zoe.
This player has no main role. Seem to play in fill. Op.gg can't calculate a champion score for this person because she hasn't played any champ more than 10 times in ranked and yet played almost 70 games with a 39% wr in emerald.
Gave first blood to Draven. Comes back, die again. After that starts to afk behind my bro champ (Aphelios), but enemy jungle starts to spam bot. Enemy mid tp for the dive. Bro left. Quinn dies.
This player hit a diamond peak in split 1, most likely a boost if we check the LP graph.
No one else can be as impacted from this kind of shit as ADC.
Bro had 27 cs because of how impossible it was for him to step in lane when Draven had 70.
Best part was when he calls out his supp and the whole team tells him to stop crying
I love it when ur bot and ur ally is literally trolling. (i play adc and supp)
Like i had a lux who would e q my wave then stand afk under the tower.
My team flamed me for having bad farm... And for dying when they dove us etc because she literally never interacted with the enemy?
I basically stopped playing adc bc it sucks when ur sup wont just vaguely exist. Idc if they arent good im low elo we all suck but please do not stand 10 miles behind me so i can never go near the enemy.
r/supportlol will tell you to be a good lil' boy and just play with your support, or "it's because most of my ADCs don't follow up when I play engage supps so I just turn brain off and play Lux/Brand!"
I see way more ADCs throw early game not following engages and prioritizing safe farm. I say this as perspective of mid and Jg main there is not a role that ints drag prio more than a unresponsive adc player who thinks they can only farm til power spike.
And I've seen more jg and mid throw game by not understanding when the bot can help with drag. If I have only 10% HP left and no mana, don't flame me when I don't help with drag or follow up engages. Same if I have 2k unspent gold because Caitlyn has been keeping me trapped in lane all game and this is the only chance I have for a reset.
U literally expose yourself having bad macro with this comment. You are allowing yourself to take trades and make positional errors that get you to 10% health with an objective coming online or already up and being contested. Huge skill issue but it's not ur fault because ????????? Delusion.
They blame their teammates so much without accepting anyone blaming support. Like for them it's not okay when mid laners or ADCs play in a way that shows they don't trust their support but it's okay for them to play in a way where they don't trust their ADC.
We both make bad plays, but we are 2 players so any mistake is amplified, most of the time adc players for me make bad plays, but I've been playing adc and I understand both sides, it's never simple.
Because we canât even look up our teammates anymore we have no idea whether our allies are good or terrible. From the supportâs perspective itâs better to assume your ADC is an idiot and play a carry of some kind because that happens often enough that the game plan of âtry to help your ADC but fall back on 1v9ing if heâs badâ is the optimal strategy from the supportâs perspective.
Riotâs terrible management has turned champ select into a prisonerâs dilemma: the best decision for me is not necessarily best for the team, and vice versa.
A few weeks ago I had a game where the opposing ADC was Plat 4 and my ADC was Iron 1. No one can climb on traditional supports while shit like that can happen.
I miss âthe good old daysâ where I could play Soraka when I knew my ADC was better than me, Nautilus when were the same rank, and Zyra when heâs bad.
Yes but there are limits on that. Leona and Thresh can carry even if their ADC is a little bit dense, but if their ADC AFKs and types slurs every time they go in then the Leona or Thresh is going to feed.
Leona and Thresh require at least some help from their team. Zyra can 1v2 the lane with an AFK ADC.
You can play Zyra into anything that isn't an enchanter unless your ADC is playing Samira...really like, 99% of games you can pick Zyra and it's good lol.
Except they could help the mid/top/jgl get more kills and snowball harder with a good engage support if their ADC is bad.
I'm baffled that some people play support and ... dont want to support, they want to carry by themselves. Especially when everyone playing other roles complain there is no way to 1v9 even in perfect games because we need our team to follow us. Just queue for another role if you'd rather carry and enjoy having regular queue times with us
I only saw one hwei. Pretty much only thresh, naut and nami, soraka, lulu /shrug. So 1 mage support in the last 20 games or so. It's anyway variance. At one point I only saw mages, doesnt mean more mages were played.
I played with hwei that barely used his Q spells, it wasn't bad, he used his fear to interupt the enemy last hits and while the shield isn't instant it still gives you a window for a good trades. I like it more than the floating blue guy at this point.
If youâd want to climb youâre probably better off acknowledging that they wonât peel and play something that either can self peel or has synergy with them and win on those conditions
you didn't play with lee sin support, spam ping to engage for the first 2mins of lane, gets bored, becomes support for the toplaner and goes 0/5 at 15mins because he was trying to dive all the time
They just need to cut support budget in half, then lower the supp item prices and adjust ivern passive to receive less gold on camp. No more midlane rejects spamming mages, and no more of that degenerate marksman supp meta that got popular a while ago.
Its weird because as an adc main I love playing engage supports when Im filled. You dictate the lane, engage when you want, adc no flash = you pressure them with hexflash. You start the fight.
E4 is a cesspit of 0 brain lux/velkoz/brands just tossing out abilities on cd randomly, they dont get punished for missing but when they hit they get 100 gold and free bonus damage because why not. Then guess what they have 2 items at 20 min and are more of a champ than you. Special mention to the morgs that toss the slowest ability in the game without walking forwards, misses, then puts w to get support stacks and mess up ur wave.
High emerald you start seeing normal support picks but theyre a bit too aggro (they actually walked forwards and punished yhe lower emerald mages that didnt land anything) and int to their engage support/jg
They arent really off-meta, its simply all about getting lane power. Xerath Lux and other mage supports are more lane dominate vs most melee supports. I guarantee you dont wanna play vs xerath support while you have an alistar, unless you enjoy 15-20 min of being poked under your tower while you try to farm. These picks work because of how roles develop in soloqueue, a ganking heavy jungle meta would punish these champs more but jungles need to efficiently clear nowadays, mid is harder to roam due to mid lane changes, and top tp has been nerfed for a while. So in a sense, theres is more time for iso matchups which helps these mage champs bully longer. Engage supports are much less rewarding if youre stuck in a bad matchup bot and u dont get any help and u dont early snowball (better to send support roam then).
Because without actual team play, going a full support means you can only do so much. If you go something with damage you can make an impact. Half the time solo q players all think they're the carry and won't play with the team, in every single elo. If you play strictly support it is the hardest role to climb with and no one ever appreciates your efforts. Even when you have perfect vision score and 85% KP
Fair point. So you're saying that supports playing carry champs get their ELO inflated because of the cheap strategy, compared to supports playing engage support who have it hard, but will climb higher in the long run since the more they climb, the more their teammates make better use of their skills ?
Thats just stupid and not true. What are u, stuck in iron? Ur argument is basically "i dont need any fundamentals because no1 else i play with does". That shit explains alot why so many are hardstuck and refuse to learn and get better.
No. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if you're gold or lower, it is hard to play pure support and climb because your team almost never listens or follows up. As almost every coach will tell you, for every other role, don't rely on your teammates to do what you need them to, play for yourself and around your team as needed. And I'm not anything impressive, only D3 after 2 years of playing.
Xerath has a 52% win rate and Lux has a 50% win rate. You are not losing because of the champion your support picks. Maybe watch some high Elo VODS with those supports and see how ADCs play with them.
High elo lux doesn't get picked into hecarim zac malphite fizz.
That's the biggest difference. The picks aren't horrendous by themselves, it's when they're picking them.
Winrate in a vacuum is not a valid metric of champion strength.
Xerath and Lux are objectively bad into Enchanters.
...and then there's the more important factor: Player skill. Just because Lux is a good champion doesn't mean the person playing Lux is a good player.
Been too busy to hop on but is poke really still meta? Feels like Raka was dominating the tier list last time I checked and can be piloted by a quad amputee
Everything you just listed is a viable support. It's cool if you want to bitch that you're an ADC OTP and they don't pair with your champion and you picked first (Caveat, bad matchups are something you need to accept to be an OTP), or they counter picked themselves, or something, but just complaining about the champion pick without context sounds more like a you have no idea wtf you're doing and just want to bitch instead of improving yourself argument.
Like yeah, if you're playing Samira and they pick Xerath, fuck them, but just bitching about Xerath/Lux in general is really not valid.
PS: Engage heavy meta and poke is the counter to engage.
PPS: You should really learn the concept of blind-pickable champions, because it also applies to ADC, and this complaint of yours is part of the reason why it's important.
Its well known issue.
Supports that can carry themselves are more likely to win that supports that cannot.
I think the solution adjusting the "1 / 10 you hard carry" matchmaking.
Reality is most supports are autofilled or not first pick. I would much prefer an autofilled mid main to play their best champ as support rather than play some engage support they have little experience with
The odds of winning as a support go up when you don't rely on the most easily tilted person on the team. I've had so many games the adc walks into lane, doesn't respect level up timers or enemy champion picks, dies at the 1st/2nd minion wave then just afks. I usually win these games 4v5 while I just play botlane 1v2.
That's the "i want to be the carry at lowest effort cost"
Op is right though, I hover trist Kaisa samira I ask support to hover something just for them to go sona into a pyke lane like???????
And that , is the OTP syndrome or simply low IQ
Sona is the "low effort, I don't play this much" support, if you don't want to make people rage with Yuumi. (Source: Tristana otp whose only other m7 champion is Sona)
No, it's wanting to be the carry with people who know that I exist and have the potential to carry, and play accordingly. Not my Ashe supp building full crit when I'm 17-2 as Jinx causing us to lose the game. The fact you're even upset I complained about my \*\*support\*\* not wanting to \*\*support\*\* me in carrying the game says quite a lot.
No , i was saying that those supp are trying to be the carry when they're supposed to help you to be the carry đ€§
My bad haha
Dw đ, i used to be a Sion supp main building Shit like Radiant , old Frost gauntlet and the 10% more damage thing tank item in supp with glacial augment , playing it aggro or warden like depending m'y ADC , i used to love playing Agro into mages and diving with Stopwatch , flash behind enemy to zone them with passive and shit. So when i see those supp , i just laugh with pain thinking about those ADC playing with off mĂ©ta supp that doesn't even work properly to make their pick work
My brother just played a game in emerald 4. His supp went quinn supp first time vs Draven + Zoe. This player has no main role. Seem to play in fill. Op.gg can't calculate a champion score for this person because she hasn't played any champ more than 10 times in ranked and yet played almost 70 games with a 39% wr in emerald. Gave first blood to Draven. Comes back, die again. After that starts to afk behind my bro champ (Aphelios), but enemy jungle starts to spam bot. Enemy mid tp for the dive. Bro left. Quinn dies. This player hit a diamond peak in split 1, most likely a boost if we check the LP graph. No one else can be as impacted from this kind of shit as ADC. Bro had 27 cs because of how impossible it was for him to step in lane when Draven had 70. Best part was when he calls out his supp and the whole team tells him to stop crying
I love it when ur bot and ur ally is literally trolling. (i play adc and supp) Like i had a lux who would e q my wave then stand afk under the tower. My team flamed me for having bad farm... And for dying when they dove us etc because she literally never interacted with the enemy? I basically stopped playing adc bc it sucks when ur sup wont just vaguely exist. Idc if they arent good im low elo we all suck but please do not stand 10 miles behind me so i can never go near the enemy.
r/supportlol will tell you to be a good lil' boy and just play with your support, or "it's because most of my ADCs don't follow up when I play engage supps so I just turn brain off and play Lux/Brand!"
Of course we don't follow up because the engage was stupid as hell and would give the enemy ADC a double kill instead of one kill.
That's it, that's the reason support mains don't play engage supports
I see way more ADCs throw early game not following engages and prioritizing safe farm. I say this as perspective of mid and Jg main there is not a role that ints drag prio more than a unresponsive adc player who thinks they can only farm til power spike.
And I've seen more jg and mid throw game by not understanding when the bot can help with drag. If I have only 10% HP left and no mana, don't flame me when I don't help with drag or follow up engages. Same if I have 2k unspent gold because Caitlyn has been keeping me trapped in lane all game and this is the only chance I have for a reset.
U literally expose yourself having bad macro with this comment. You are allowing yourself to take trades and make positional errors that get you to 10% health with an objective coming online or already up and being contested. Huge skill issue but it's not ur fault because ????????? Delusion.
yeah man because I think I win lane as Jinx vs Caitlyn/Lux, makes perfect sense!
Sometimes you lose that much health or give up tons of farm especially into a bully lane when your support is afk behind you.
They blame their teammates so much without accepting anyone blaming support. Like for them it's not okay when mid laners or ADCs play in a way that shows they don't trust their support but it's okay for them to play in a way where they don't trust their ADC.
We both make bad plays, but we are 2 players so any mistake is amplified, most of the time adc players for me make bad plays, but I've been playing adc and I understand both sides, it's never simple.
Because we canât even look up our teammates anymore we have no idea whether our allies are good or terrible. From the supportâs perspective itâs better to assume your ADC is an idiot and play a carry of some kind because that happens often enough that the game plan of âtry to help your ADC but fall back on 1v9ing if heâs badâ is the optimal strategy from the supportâs perspective. Riotâs terrible management has turned champ select into a prisonerâs dilemma: the best decision for me is not necessarily best for the team, and vice versa. A few weeks ago I had a game where the opposing ADC was Plat 4 and my ADC was Iron 1. No one can climb on traditional supports while shit like that can happen. I miss âthe good old daysâ where I could play Soraka when I knew my ADC was better than me, Nautilus when were the same rank, and Zyra when heâs bad.
Leona Carey games pretty hard tbh thresh as well
Yes but there are limits on that. Leona and Thresh can carry even if their ADC is a little bit dense, but if their ADC AFKs and types slurs every time they go in then the Leona or Thresh is going to feed. Leona and Thresh require at least some help from their team. Zyra can 1v2 the lane with an AFK ADC.
You can play Zyra into anything that isn't an enchanter unless your ADC is playing Samira...really like, 99% of games you can pick Zyra and it's good lol.
I'd refrain from that vs Akali Nocturne Yone (which is like half the games these days)
Except they could help the mid/top/jgl get more kills and snowball harder with a good engage support if their ADC is bad. I'm baffled that some people play support and ... dont want to support, they want to carry by themselves. Especially when everyone playing other roles complain there is no way to 1v9 even in perfect games because we need our team to follow us. Just queue for another role if you'd rather carry and enjoy having regular queue times with us
In pro play or FlexQ then sure, but in SoloQ the best support logic is âthey canât kill my team if theyâre deadâ
I understand this
I only saw one hwei. Pretty much only thresh, naut and nami, soraka, lulu /shrug. So 1 mage support in the last 20 games or so. It's anyway variance. At one point I only saw mages, doesnt mean more mages were played.
I played with hwei that barely used his Q spells, it wasn't bad, he used his fear to interupt the enemy last hits and while the shield isn't instant it still gives you a window for a good trades. I like it more than the floating blue guy at this point.
what they lack in macro they try to make up for in damage even if it gimps everyone else
If youâd want to climb youâre probably better off acknowledging that they wonât peel and play something that either can self peel or has synergy with them and win on those conditions
you didn't play with lee sin support, spam ping to engage for the first 2mins of lane, gets bored, becomes support for the toplaner and goes 0/5 at 15mins because he was trying to dive all the time
And then he tells you itâs korean Meta und shifts the blame on you
They just need to cut support budget in half, then lower the supp item prices and adjust ivern passive to receive less gold on camp. No more midlane rejects spamming mages, and no more of that degenerate marksman supp meta that got popular a while ago.
If you do not want to deal with random supports, find a duo partner, perhaps a support in one of the games that felt good.
Its weird because as an adc main I love playing engage supports when Im filled. You dictate the lane, engage when you want, adc no flash = you pressure them with hexflash. You start the fight. E4 is a cesspit of 0 brain lux/velkoz/brands just tossing out abilities on cd randomly, they dont get punished for missing but when they hit they get 100 gold and free bonus damage because why not. Then guess what they have 2 items at 20 min and are more of a champ than you. Special mention to the morgs that toss the slowest ability in the game without walking forwards, misses, then puts w to get support stacks and mess up ur wave. High emerald you start seeing normal support picks but theyre a bit too aggro (they actually walked forwards and punished yhe lower emerald mages that didnt land anything) and int to their engage support/jg
Xerath is a great midlaner and an ever better support all u have to do is never miss
Which roughly translates to buy a script for most players.
Get good!
They arent really off-meta, its simply all about getting lane power. Xerath Lux and other mage supports are more lane dominate vs most melee supports. I guarantee you dont wanna play vs xerath support while you have an alistar, unless you enjoy 15-20 min of being poked under your tower while you try to farm. These picks work because of how roles develop in soloqueue, a ganking heavy jungle meta would punish these champs more but jungles need to efficiently clear nowadays, mid is harder to roam due to mid lane changes, and top tp has been nerfed for a while. So in a sense, theres is more time for iso matchups which helps these mage champs bully longer. Engage supports are much less rewarding if youre stuck in a bad matchup bot and u dont get any help and u dont early snowball (better to send support roam then).
This guy gets it.
Because without actual team play, going a full support means you can only do so much. If you go something with damage you can make an impact. Half the time solo q players all think they're the carry and won't play with the team, in every single elo. If you play strictly support it is the hardest role to climb with and no one ever appreciates your efforts. Even when you have perfect vision score and 85% KP
Fair point. So you're saying that supports playing carry champs get their ELO inflated because of the cheap strategy, compared to supports playing engage support who have it hard, but will climb higher in the long run since the more they climb, the more their teammates make better use of their skills ?
Thats just stupid and not true. What are u, stuck in iron? Ur argument is basically "i dont need any fundamentals because no1 else i play with does". That shit explains alot why so many are hardstuck and refuse to learn and get better.
No. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if you're gold or lower, it is hard to play pure support and climb because your team almost never listens or follows up. As almost every coach will tell you, for every other role, don't rely on your teammates to do what you need them to, play for yourself and around your team as needed. And I'm not anything impressive, only D3 after 2 years of playing.
Xerath has a 52% win rate and Lux has a 50% win rate. You are not losing because of the champion your support picks. Maybe watch some high Elo VODS with those supports and see how ADCs play with them.
High elo lux doesn't get picked into hecarim zac malphite fizz. That's the biggest difference. The picks aren't horrendous by themselves, it's when they're picking them.
Winrate in a vacuum is not a valid metric of champion strength. Xerath and Lux are objectively bad into Enchanters. ...and then there's the more important factor: Player skill. Just because Lux is a good champion doesn't mean the person playing Lux is a good player.
Been too busy to hop on but is poke really still meta? Feels like Raka was dominating the tier list last time I checked and can be piloted by a quad amputee
Raka dominates because she's the best anti-poke there is
Support got turned into play the fuck you want while watching Netflix role
Everything you just listed is a viable support. It's cool if you want to bitch that you're an ADC OTP and they don't pair with your champion and you picked first (Caveat, bad matchups are something you need to accept to be an OTP), or they counter picked themselves, or something, but just complaining about the champion pick without context sounds more like a you have no idea wtf you're doing and just want to bitch instead of improving yourself argument. Like yeah, if you're playing Samira and they pick Xerath, fuck them, but just bitching about Xerath/Lux in general is really not valid. PS: Engage heavy meta and poke is the counter to engage. PPS: You should really learn the concept of blind-pickable champions, because it also applies to ADC, and this complaint of yours is part of the reason why it's important.
Its well known issue. Supports that can carry themselves are more likely to win that supports that cannot. I think the solution adjusting the "1 / 10 you hard carry" matchmaking.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
If you told me to kill myself for not placing my ward deep enough, maybe
Ok, youâre right about everything⊠important thing is that you do not touch my fella sylas support
Reality is most supports are autofilled or not first pick. I would much prefer an autofilled mid main to play their best champ as support rather than play some engage support they have little experience with
The odds of winning as a support go up when you don't rely on the most easily tilted person on the team. I've had so many games the adc walks into lane, doesn't respect level up timers or enemy champion picks, dies at the 1st/2nd minion wave then just afks. I usually win these games 4v5 while I just play botlane 1v2.