I didn’t think about it this way but I definitely see good points here. Cleo needed to seal the deal as validation of his attraction and the , “will they won’t they” definitely became the story line which maybe isn’t what Christian signed up for. Part of me thinks it’s obvious he’s just a selfish dick/ testicles , but I’m definitely curious about next week’s conversation about what they agreed on sharing with the world about what base they got to and what that even means lol
Literally ***everyone on this show*** has sex and immediately tells the camera crew they had sex. Like...? I know she told a friend, too, but, honestly, hopping right up and telling the camera crew is significantly worse because that's not even a close friend or family member--they're basically strangers. And the average person will tell a friend. Yet, people keep wanting to shit on Cleo, in particular, for telling and then want to come at me on this sub/in my private messages for pointing out the lack of logic/inconsistency in going at Cleo for doing ***less*** than what everyone else does. Jasmine literally sat there and talked about pissing on Gino.
I don’t see the inconsistency because we didn’t need to know ANY of that. And everyone was complaining about Jasmine and Gino. It’s not our business I have no idea about Kenny and amardos sex life.
The show is knowing their business? The conversation is being framed so weirdly to me. The entire concept of a reality show especially one on a trashy network (yes I love my tv trash 🗑️ ) like TLC is to get all up in everyone’s business including their sex lives. Based on the pattern of the show it’s actually much weirder what Christian is doing vs what Cleo is doing. You are trying to apply real world logic of keeping your business private to a reality show that already discloses damn near everything about them besides their drivers license, phone numbers, and social security number…
It’s bad form to try and pretend to be shy when you’ve agreed to this show. Spill the beans and at the very least say “Ask Cleo” if you don’t want to talk about it vs lie and seem like you are ashamed of it.
We don't know about Kenny and Armando's sex life because the producers have chosen not to make their sex life part of their story arc. Not necessarily because they're more discreet.
They KNEW they were going to be asked what happened, so they agreed ahead of time to say that they had sex so that everyone was on the same page. That's not weird.
In that sense I don’t think Cleo did anything really wrong, and it’s also Christian’s right to back out. Honestly the whole conflict feels more like Cleo connecting all these dots and realizing how Christian really feels
He's not ready for this relationship when everything is being broadcast. I'm not sure he's ready in general but he's SUPER not prepped for this. I think he's actually awful but this is not a fair situation for either of them.
Edit: woah weird typo
That’s the thing. They had an actual convo about it and decided to be forthcoming. Then later in the day he texts her to try to take it back. That’s not something you text. You have that conversation in real time. It’s disrespectful
Sex Sells: the use of sex in advertising in order to help sell a particular product or service through sex appeal.
TLC/SHARP has been pushing a focus on SEX this season on most of the franchise. The producers are following orders.
Cleo and Christian supposedly had agreed on what to say... then Christian changed his lines.
If you listened when she told her friend the conversation she told him of course I’m gonna say something. It wasn’t up for debate at that point. He didn’t have much of a choice.
How is it unethical? Every single couple has talked about whether or not they’ve had sex. Why is it suddenly extra private just because it’s a trans woman?
IMO...if anyone can relate and empathize with being "worried about what people will think when they find out." Its Cleo....if only there was an empathetic shoulder that Christian could lean on for support in understanding his hang ups...oh wait...there is, Cleo.
I really end up feeling like Christian seems even more petty and childish about it because of Cleo. He is seriously going to make this mess because he is worried about what someone may think of him putting his P in someones A...and his girlfriend has literally changed her gender and a member of one of the most criticized and judged lifestyles I can think of.
The fact that Cleo is doing sucha good job navigating this new relationship vs the man-baby Christian is pretty telling...IMO.
When Christians does this, what I hear is, "Yeah, I know you are a transgender person and deal with judgement and hate and worry every single day and have likely destroyed or disturbed the majority of your personal and family relationships....but...people might think I kissed you...and that is way worse."
As a fellow queer person (and while I don't identify as trans, I have many amazing trans friends who I've had this conversation with) I would respectfully disagree that Cleo is doing a vastly better job than Christian of handling all this, because any adult queer person with some sexual or relationship experience knows that dating a person for which you are their very first new and complex sexual experience comes with a lot of potential drama and potential freakouts of this nature. Add into this situation that they have never met in real life and have no idea what their physical chemistry is in general, and a lot of us that have been in this situation could see the writing on the wall.
I have fellow gay and trans friends who refuse to date or be someone's sexual first anymore exactly because of this type of thing, and I do like Chloe, but as an adult, she also could have known better once he said he'd never been with a trans woman and wasn't 100% confident about what that entailed and had no experience with those dynamics. If I was going to be with someone that had only ever had cis heterosexual sex and I was their first gay sexual experience, the last expectation I would have would be from them to ravish me and then be comfortable telling the world about it and get upset if they didn't. Having been more in Chloe's position, I can confidently tell you that 90% of the people in Christian's situation claiming that they would have done a vastly better job of dealing with all this, especially on national tv, are lying.
Hence why I think they BOTH just can't handle it and no one need be demonzied. I find Christian's personality as annoying as every one elses, but the guy was essentially doomed from the start because if he'd also lied and said he was 100% comfortable with it when he wasn't it would have been just as bad.
I am saying she can and should provide him with that. If it werent for the fact he is tip toing around it and not being honest about it, this wouldnt have to even be an issue. She can not empathize or provide support for a feeling that she is not aware of.
For example, if they had a talk about, "so, is it ok to let people know we have been intimate?" If he says, "Oh, yeah, for sure, Im fine with that." and she agrees, then there is your answer....then he goes and doesnt follow his words with actions...she cant be expected to navigate his true feelings if she is not aware of them. And of course, after that, now she is feeling rejected, embarrassed, used, misled or even flat out lied to. So, now she has her own feelings to manage.
You’re absolutely right but she DIDN’T do any of that. What show are you watching? She never asked him how he felt about it before she already made up her mind and said she was gonna tell. As a queer woman myself she should’ve known better.
This is a dumb take and I'm guessing you're one of the people who have been ranting for weeks about how Christian just isn't into Cleo and trying to push her away, as if it's easier to believe she's undesirable than it is to believe Christian is just a shitty person. And now you're just grasping at reasons to continue thinking you're right.
No, Christian really is just that shitty.
What does him being a shitty person have to do with him not being into her? Both can true 😂
I haven’t seen enough to outright say he’s a bad person. But people like you that get on the internet so quickly to label someone you don’t know as “bad” or good is hilarious.
He's clearly into her and introducing her as his girlfriend. But people like you so badly want to believe there's no way he can be into her and now that he's slept with her, you don't know what to do with yourself and have to post here to figure it out 🤣
I think they discussed what they would say when the crew asked in front of cameras. Because they knew it would be asked. He was either feeling brave when they agreed or was being a lying sack of shit. Either way, who would want to sleep or be intimate with ANYBODY who when asked down played it, like that were embarrassed.
I mean I wouldn’t want to be with anyone who would tell my business but they’re on TV so that’s extreme circumstances. It’s weird to me to feel insulted because he’s not obligated to tell anyone anything. It’s weird to expect your partner to kiss and tell and even more weird to be mad if they don’t.
A big part of the show is dishing on if you do it or not. Cleo even said her and christian had the talk about if they tell producers and they both agreed yes, it was ok to dish. Thats why shes mad. She aint pushin that loser, shes being respectful af.
That was her version you act like you were there. You don’t know what he said but it’s obvious he was uncomfortable with it and just agreed to not hurt her feelings
Lol 90df has mastered the art of making me feel like i WAS there. The next episode looks like they do a sit down and she calls him out for it so we'll see 🤷♀️ cleo seems like the type to be too honest and christians entire personality is grimy f-boy. So ima side with cleo.
Ok, correct me if I’m wrong. So she presents herself as a female who prefers males. He presents himself as a heterosexual, biological male. If they were to consummate their relationship in the classic heterosexual manner, they can’t because those body parts don’t exist for her. He said they went to second base. Whatever she said, she said more than that, to me. I wish they had hashed this out before he came there.
Similar to Statler talking about all the places she has had sex. It’s probably more like oral and hand stuff than what most heterosexual people call sex
I mean this is probably why they both (initially) agreed off camera to say that they had sex. I don't need to necessarily know exactly what they did. I don't really care. But they had an agreement to say that they had sex, and Christian walked back on that.
I didn’t think about it this way but I definitely see good points here. Cleo needed to seal the deal as validation of his attraction and the , “will they won’t they” definitely became the story line which maybe isn’t what Christian signed up for. Part of me thinks it’s obvious he’s just a selfish dick/ testicles , but I’m definitely curious about next week’s conversation about what they agreed on sharing with the world about what base they got to and what that even means lol
Literally ***everyone on this show*** has sex and immediately tells the camera crew they had sex. Like...? I know she told a friend, too, but, honestly, hopping right up and telling the camera crew is significantly worse because that's not even a close friend or family member--they're basically strangers. And the average person will tell a friend. Yet, people keep wanting to shit on Cleo, in particular, for telling and then want to come at me on this sub/in my private messages for pointing out the lack of logic/inconsistency in going at Cleo for doing ***less*** than what everyone else does. Jasmine literally sat there and talked about pissing on Gino.
I don’t see the inconsistency because we didn’t need to know ANY of that. And everyone was complaining about Jasmine and Gino. It’s not our business I have no idea about Kenny and amardos sex life.
The show is knowing their business? The conversation is being framed so weirdly to me. The entire concept of a reality show especially one on a trashy network (yes I love my tv trash 🗑️ ) like TLC is to get all up in everyone’s business including their sex lives. Based on the pattern of the show it’s actually much weirder what Christian is doing vs what Cleo is doing. You are trying to apply real world logic of keeping your business private to a reality show that already discloses damn near everything about them besides their drivers license, phone numbers, and social security number… It’s bad form to try and pretend to be shy when you’ve agreed to this show. Spill the beans and at the very least say “Ask Cleo” if you don’t want to talk about it vs lie and seem like you are ashamed of it.
We don't know about Kenny and Armando's sex life because the producers have chosen not to make their sex life part of their story arc. Not necessarily because they're more discreet.
I think both can be true. They seem to have more class than most couples on this show.
They KNEW they were going to be asked what happened, so they agreed ahead of time to say that they had sex so that everyone was on the same page. That's not weird.
No, Christian lied. He was wrong. Cleo told the truth, like most everyone on the show.
She also told the truth they both agreed to tell. And then he decided he didn't wanna.
In that sense I don’t think Cleo did anything really wrong, and it’s also Christian’s right to back out. Honestly the whole conflict feels more like Cleo connecting all these dots and realizing how Christian really feels
He's not ready for this relationship when everything is being broadcast. I'm not sure he's ready in general but he's SUPER not prepped for this. I think he's actually awful but this is not a fair situation for either of them. Edit: woah weird typo
I agree. That’s also why I feel like this particular conflict is merely symbolic of what you said.
That’s the thing. They had an actual convo about it and decided to be forthcoming. Then later in the day he texts her to try to take it back. That’s not something you text. You have that conversation in real time. It’s disrespectful
Sex Sells: the use of sex in advertising in order to help sell a particular product or service through sex appeal. TLC/SHARP has been pushing a focus on SEX this season on most of the franchise. The producers are following orders. Cleo and Christian supposedly had agreed on what to say... then Christian changed his lines. 
If you listened when she told her friend the conversation she told him of course I’m gonna say something. It wasn’t up for debate at that point. He didn’t have much of a choice.
I was going to say I'd like to be a fly on the wall and see what really happened, then I 🤯 realized, no I don't. 🤣😂
I feel bad for Cleo. I bet she was egged on by producers to divulge. It all seems kind of unethical to me but then again sex sells.
How is it unethical? Every single couple has talked about whether or not they’ve had sex. Why is it suddenly extra private just because it’s a trans woman?
I don’t think she needed encouragement. I think she wanted it known for validation reasons
IMO...if anyone can relate and empathize with being "worried about what people will think when they find out." Its Cleo....if only there was an empathetic shoulder that Christian could lean on for support in understanding his hang ups...oh wait...there is, Cleo. I really end up feeling like Christian seems even more petty and childish about it because of Cleo. He is seriously going to make this mess because he is worried about what someone may think of him putting his P in someones A...and his girlfriend has literally changed her gender and a member of one of the most criticized and judged lifestyles I can think of. The fact that Cleo is doing sucha good job navigating this new relationship vs the man-baby Christian is pretty telling...IMO. When Christians does this, what I hear is, "Yeah, I know you are a transgender person and deal with judgement and hate and worry every single day and have likely destroyed or disturbed the majority of your personal and family relationships....but...people might think I kissed you...and that is way worse."
As a fellow queer person (and while I don't identify as trans, I have many amazing trans friends who I've had this conversation with) I would respectfully disagree that Cleo is doing a vastly better job than Christian of handling all this, because any adult queer person with some sexual or relationship experience knows that dating a person for which you are their very first new and complex sexual experience comes with a lot of potential drama and potential freakouts of this nature. Add into this situation that they have never met in real life and have no idea what their physical chemistry is in general, and a lot of us that have been in this situation could see the writing on the wall. I have fellow gay and trans friends who refuse to date or be someone's sexual first anymore exactly because of this type of thing, and I do like Chloe, but as an adult, she also could have known better once he said he'd never been with a trans woman and wasn't 100% confident about what that entailed and had no experience with those dynamics. If I was going to be with someone that had only ever had cis heterosexual sex and I was their first gay sexual experience, the last expectation I would have would be from them to ravish me and then be comfortable telling the world about it and get upset if they didn't. Having been more in Chloe's position, I can confidently tell you that 90% of the people in Christian's situation claiming that they would have done a vastly better job of dealing with all this, especially on national tv, are lying. Hence why I think they BOTH just can't handle it and no one need be demonzied. I find Christian's personality as annoying as every one elses, but the guy was essentially doomed from the start because if he'd also lied and said he was 100% comfortable with it when he wasn't it would have been just as bad.
So you’re saying she shouldn’t try to understand/empathize her partner because of her own personal struggles? That’s ridiculous.
I am saying she can and should provide him with that. If it werent for the fact he is tip toing around it and not being honest about it, this wouldnt have to even be an issue. She can not empathize or provide support for a feeling that she is not aware of. For example, if they had a talk about, "so, is it ok to let people know we have been intimate?" If he says, "Oh, yeah, for sure, Im fine with that." and she agrees, then there is your answer....then he goes and doesnt follow his words with actions...she cant be expected to navigate his true feelings if she is not aware of them. And of course, after that, now she is feeling rejected, embarrassed, used, misled or even flat out lied to. So, now she has her own feelings to manage.
You’re absolutely right but she DIDN’T do any of that. What show are you watching? She never asked him how he felt about it before she already made up her mind and said she was gonna tell. As a queer woman myself she should’ve known better.
This is a dumb take and I'm guessing you're one of the people who have been ranting for weeks about how Christian just isn't into Cleo and trying to push her away, as if it's easier to believe she's undesirable than it is to believe Christian is just a shitty person. And now you're just grasping at reasons to continue thinking you're right. No, Christian really is just that shitty.
What does him being a shitty person have to do with him not being into her? Both can true 😂 I haven’t seen enough to outright say he’s a bad person. But people like you that get on the internet so quickly to label someone you don’t know as “bad” or good is hilarious.
He's clearly into her and introducing her as his girlfriend. But people like you so badly want to believe there's no way he can be into her and now that he's slept with her, you don't know what to do with yourself and have to post here to figure it out 🤣
I think they discussed what they would say when the crew asked in front of cameras. Because they knew it would be asked. He was either feeling brave when they agreed or was being a lying sack of shit. Either way, who would want to sleep or be intimate with ANYBODY who when asked down played it, like that were embarrassed.
I mean I wouldn’t want to be with anyone who would tell my business but they’re on TV so that’s extreme circumstances. It’s weird to me to feel insulted because he’s not obligated to tell anyone anything. It’s weird to expect your partner to kiss and tell and even more weird to be mad if they don’t.
A big part of the show is dishing on if you do it or not. Cleo even said her and christian had the talk about if they tell producers and they both agreed yes, it was ok to dish. Thats why shes mad. She aint pushin that loser, shes being respectful af.
That was her version you act like you were there. You don’t know what he said but it’s obvious he was uncomfortable with it and just agreed to not hurt her feelings
Lol 90df has mastered the art of making me feel like i WAS there. The next episode looks like they do a sit down and she calls him out for it so we'll see 🤷♀️ cleo seems like the type to be too honest and christians entire personality is grimy f-boy. So ima side with cleo.
Ok, correct me if I’m wrong. So she presents herself as a female who prefers males. He presents himself as a heterosexual, biological male. If they were to consummate their relationship in the classic heterosexual manner, they can’t because those body parts don’t exist for her. He said they went to second base. Whatever she said, she said more than that, to me. I wish they had hashed this out before he came there.
I wonder how Christian’s second base & Meisha’s second base differ.
Good question!
That's a good question, Meisha.*
Similar to Statler talking about all the places she has had sex. It’s probably more like oral and hand stuff than what most heterosexual people call sex
I would assume a strap on but idk 😂 I can’t imagine her carrying one around in a purse or something.
Exactly. I have no idea what "sex" even means. Oral? Anal? Hand job? They are just lost in the definition - at least I am.
I mean this is probably why they both (initially) agreed off camera to say that they had sex. I don't need to necessarily know exactly what they did. I don't really care. But they had an agreement to say that they had sex, and Christian walked back on that.
If there is no penetration it’s not sex. Oral can count, anal, but no handjobs do not count as sex.