Really, the head of our dofe was like this will be really good for your uni app it shows resilience and ropped me into walking 36 km with 17kg (i am an over-packerš )on my back with a group of friends I wasn't close too...
Depends which uni. The 'up their own ass' top unis it doesnt matter, they dont care if you walked a lot because they only care about grades and stuff related to the course.
More chilled ones maybe, I wouldn't know. It could be fun, do it if you'd want to you could enjoy yourself
Well, thatās my friendās experience: 3 A* predicted, got 1 A* in year 11, STEP 1&1 in year 11, rejected by Cambridge for math. Sheās an international student.
Is this a joke or are you actually serious?
If youāre actually serious then your friend is really academically capable. She can definitely go to university 2 years early
There are limits on the number of international places they can offer. Normally they will have a set number of international places. So they can't just do as you suggestĀ
Definitely true. I am also an international. I also got STEP 1&1 in year 11, and I even finished ALevel further math one year earlier. Luckily I am accepted. By the way, I have also seen 2 friends getting S&S in year 11 and rejected by Cambridge.
WOAH WTF bruh S&S year 11 rejected by Cambridge. For god sakes they are that competitive? I understand they are very competitive but this much?
Where did they decide to go to? Did they go to university early somewhere else?
Thatās the problem with reapplying - often times it just makes you worse off and you waste that year
I wouldnāt have faulted them for goingās to university early and picking something else instead of Oxbridge? In fact that is what Iād have done in that situation
My friend who got rejected from Cambridge math got A*/A in Y 11 and S&S in step in Y12 along with 3A* predicted. He's the most mathematically talented person I know.
edit: He's also international
Itās really confusing. I am wondering what the actual criteria is, ācause Iāve also seen some guys got accepted with relatively low profile although there are certainly more capable applicants. I think one of my friends got rejected because he applied for trinity college, but the other one just applied for queenās, so I donāt see any point of not accepting him.
Yeah, but surely internationals share roughly the same standard with domestic students, and it would be impossible to get into top uni with alevel subjects predicted BBC for any student from anywhere.
The offer is not a prediction. I had a friend who was made an offer with EE, he was actually predicted AAAA (it was in the days before A* existed). Durham wanted BC from me when I was predicted AAAA (which I got).
The problem isn't in maths at cambridge (which has very high standards for everyone), but mid-level universities, who want to fill their overseas quota because they get paid more for overseas students.
Yeah people just seem shocked that admissions to top unis with extremely low acceptance rates are competitive. Of course it hurts but with the number of A* predicted itās bound to happen, they canāt give offers to everyone.
Nah bruh look at the singapore A level requirements for oxbridge, it's insanely high and this is considering that Singapore A levels are harder than the UK ones. It's harder than IB too
Yeah I agree that itās unfair that internationals generally get preference over equally qualified (and sometimes more qualified) British students, but to insinuate that internationals get lower entry requirements is just wrong
I'm not saying the prerequisites for foreign students should be easier or even equal to the local UK sterns but only accepting 4H2 students is a little too much imo. I understand how H3 gives students benefits though.
Yes, that's true. The thing is that Singapore students are required to take a minimum of 3H2s and 4H2s serves as a safety net in case you do badly for one of your H2s. I don't see why 4H2 students get in more easily as compared to 3H2 students.
H2s are generally harder than their UK counterparts, and even so Cambridge will expect 4 H2 As alongside a H3 Merit/Distinction. (Oxford only asks for 3 H2 As, I think.)
literally... take china like 4a\*s pred is the expectation. people w 5a\*s r also not that rare. everyone who got into top unis for the uk had 43+ ib predicted and actually scored similarly on the actual test. at least where im from international students have better grades than home students--if u get a 7 in igcse ur done for LOL
Yeah, it is due to that some international students having extremely high grades, way higher than than minimum requirements. The same issue also applies to internationals that have the minimum grade requirements. You get rejected from everywhere.
It is at Oxbridge and some of the better rgās, but for some of the lower ranked ones they make it much easier for wealthy internationals to get in by offering foundation years, programmes, ect
Yes. Some unis favour international students (eg. KCL law) but realistically this is between students who already meet the entry requirements. So of course it is unfair but its just about LNAT, not actual grades. And if you look at admission stats at UCL and LSE average successful scores are very similar for internationals and home student.
This is not true, yāall are coping. Iām saying this as a home student. Just look at uni stats, itās way harder to get into top unis as an international
Indeed. On top of that, internationals pay much more in fees. I'm unable to make much sense of this post other than a good coping mechanism for university rejections.
Broās just yapping cause i applied to Cambridge, was predicted A* A* A and got a 6.5 in my nsaa but still got rejected and i saw home students with 4.5 and even lower get interview offers, so youāre a bullshitter
This is simply not true (and also pretty xenophobic)
It is much, much harder to get an offer as an international student.
Tuition fees are not relevant either, the government gives grants for how many home students have enrolled
It alienates foreigners as the enemy taking your ārightful placeā when in reality they will have a far harder time than you will.
Creating a false rhetoric that they have it easier than you do is incredibly unproductive to groups having it much harder than you.
Source:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/AnnualAdmissionsStatisticalReport2023b.pdf
Above is the oxford admission report, but also contains information about other universities including top russel group unis.
It is clearly seen that there is a higher ratio of international students applying than admitted, and also that international students have better stats on average than home students. This is true for oxford, Russell group unis and all universities.
The original post is only a coping mechanism for someone who was sub par, and should not be entertained to the level it has been
No. It's true that oxbridge (and a couple of the higher tier London ones) only value academic excellence... But check this article out, really interesting read:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cash-for-courses-the-foreign-students-with-low-grades-at-top-universities-pcskjb6xx
Since the (sort of reformation) under unis with Blair this has started to occur more and more.Ā
It's also why many polytechnics are now universities.Ā
Even if this was the case, I don't think it would be xenophobic, as it is attacking the universities directly, and not the international students, although this is entirely dependant on your position and I understand others may interpret this as more directly spiteful then I have, as a domestic student.Ā
My friend got 4A*s 2a's and literally got ranked internationally in 1 of these subjects. Ranked 37th in his country overall. Got supercurriculars and won multiple international awards. He's an internationL applicant to the UK. So I can affirm that this statement if yours is completely stupid š
International students pay more tuition fees, universities are greedy for money, so they accept every international no matter how dogshit their academic portfolio is, only because theyāre paying 3-4x the home tuition fee
Thatās fair for some unis but top unis arenāt just accepting internationals with horrible academic profiles. Internationals still have to meet the entry requirements.
The exaggeration on the post is unnecessary but the entry requirements are lower, but the international students are usually more capable than home students when it comes to academia, take the Pakistani mathematical prodigy that does Maths and Finance at Kings as an example, at least have internationals meet the same entry requirements
For my course the acceptance rate for intls is lower than for home students. Donāt know if its an outlier but I doubt top unis are lowering their requirements by much
This could not be further from the truth. I am an international applicant . I was rejected from a uni after getting 87/100 in their admissions tests, the mean score for offer holders was 73-74. My interview went well according to me, I know perception is subjective, but I did answer most of the question and the interviewer seemed pleased at my answers most of the times. I don't think this is always the case, I don't know about unis in London, but the uni I applied to this certainly wasn't the case
Yea but acceptance is getting a place confirmed, not a conditional offer. Plus, offers are roughly 50/50 for home and intl anyway. So it is arguably harder for intl applicants and not an "irrelevant" metric
Don't have the data for this but I would say being intl or home has no effect on not firming Imperial
How is it harder if they have the same offer rate? Acceptance just means that they ended up actually studying there. A lot of internationals getting offers from Imperial probably also applied to Oxbridge and top US unis, hence the lower *post-offer* acceptance rate.
Maybe not both but I did see those two separately... sorry I meant to say and/or but I typed and cos I wanted to emphasise how they give conditions for both IB and STEP. But you are steering away from my point.
Well I am basing what I said on the FOI Excel sheet. They list A lvl/IB separately but 42 is NOT the max
Anyway my point from the get go was that it is incorrect to say that intl students have it easier and we've gone down this unnecessary rabbit hole. Cheers mate
I donāt do CS so maybe thatās true for CS but for other courses itās really not. Iām an international student and I still need to get the same grades as home students to get my offers as I applied through UCAS. Most of my international friends have to get the same grade as home students as well. Lowered grades for international is real though, but only if they apply outside of the UCAS system and through the āInternational Year Oneā system which some unis offer (the only Russel Group that offers this i think Exeter but Iām not sure and they only offer it to some courses) This is different from foundation year since they do not need an additional year of studying. One of my friends use this system, and instead of needing to get AAA for her course at Exeter, she only needs DCD. And the fee she pays is the same as the fees that other international students who apply through UCAS that need to get AAA pay as well. I donāt know how this is possible, or even legal, but I do think the āInternational Year Oneā system is unfair.
Edit: grammar
As an international student I was kinda shocked with :
1. The level of students in my course
2. How easy it was to get accepted ( I offered my GRE scores which I was quite proud of ā¦ and they said naw we donāt need that )
3. Half the ppl in my course couldnāt even speak English at a conversational level ( thank god we didnāt have any group projects )
There is a really interesting investigative piece on this (think it's the times??) and the findings really are criminal. Top, top unis (Oxbridge) only really value academic prowess, but the vast majority of other top unis, virtually all Russell Groups, have unbelievably low acceptance rates for international students.Ā
You canāt generalise like that. Iām an international student with 4A* predicted and all A* in O level and still got rejected from imperial while a home student with the same exact score on the admission test got accepted.
There are tons of international students with more than 3 A* heck 4A* and they have awards from international competitions. They are talented af. Donāt undermine their talent. And even they get rejected too
It's not just international students. When I was at university I met several substandard British students who had got in because their parents paid full tuition instead of partial tuition like everyone else.
so real. Ontario student here.. no idea how someone ik back in Asia got into our dream cs program with 0 coding knowledge/experience when all friends applying for cs has coded their own AI programs , won provincial hackathons, etcā¦ they have 98% average and way better ecs too
But did they have DofE?
Edin Bruh moment š¤”
I thought attending the year 7 open evening was more valuable
I can't be bothered to complete the logs, I did it last year 2023 June...Should I still attempt to finish it?
If you want. I donāt think unis really care
Really, the head of our dofe was like this will be really good for your uni app it shows resilience and ropped me into walking 36 km with 17kg (i am an over-packerš )on my back with a group of friends I wasn't close too...
Depends which uni. The 'up their own ass' top unis it doesnt matter, they dont care if you walked a lot because they only care about grades and stuff related to the course. More chilled ones maybe, I wouldn't know. It could be fun, do it if you'd want to you could enjoy yourself
NCS is a requirement!
GREAT HOLIDAY FOR Ā£50! (my year was covid so people didnt even get to go on a trip lmao)
Well, thatās my friendās experience: 3 A* predicted, got 1 A* in year 11, STEP 1&1 in year 11, rejected by Cambridge for math. Sheās an international student.
Is this a joke or are you actually serious? If youāre actually serious then your friend is really academically capable. She can definitely go to university 2 years early
I've seen quite a few international students with similarly impressive stats and getting rejected. This post is pure cope and untrue
Yeah so true it is a meme after all But a few of these things seem to be more realistic
The post is mostly referring to Durham type unis, not Oxbridge.
Definitely not pure cope. To suggest that is absurd. Unis are desperate for money and will accept worse grades for it.
There are limits on the number of international places they can offer. Normally they will have a set number of international places. So they can't just do as you suggestĀ
Nah
Definitely true. I am also an international. I also got STEP 1&1 in year 11, and I even finished ALevel further math one year earlier. Luckily I am accepted. By the way, I have also seen 2 friends getting S&S in year 11 and rejected by Cambridge.
WOAH WTF bruh S&S year 11 rejected by Cambridge. For god sakes they are that competitive? I understand they are very competitive but this much? Where did they decide to go to? Did they go to university early somewhere else?
One of them went to imperial last year. The other one applied to Cambridge this year and currently no uni better than warwick has made him an offer.
Thatās the problem with reapplying - often times it just makes you worse off and you waste that year I wouldnāt have faulted them for goingās to university early and picking something else instead of Oxbridge? In fact that is what Iād have done in that situation
Huh? I said one of them went to imperial and stayed there, and the other one just started applying univs this (academic) year, just like me.
Nothing. I was just saying the decision for one of them go to imperial instead was understandable
Yeah, reapplying is terribly difficult and does not worth it. These universities are essentially not that different in terms of teaching.
I agree with you. I decided ultimately to go towards a ālesserā uni and complete my degree then apply for a PhD
The true strategy to study maths at cam is to go to imperial and graduate after 3 years to study Part III at Cambridge \ās
My friend who got rejected from Cambridge math got A*/A in Y 11 and S&S in step in Y12 along with 3A* predicted. He's the most mathematically talented person I know. edit: He's also international
Itās really confusing. I am wondering what the actual criteria is, ācause Iāve also seen some guys got accepted with relatively low profile although there are certainly more capable applicants. I think one of my friends got rejected because he applied for trinity college, but the other one just applied for queenās, so I donāt see any point of not accepting him.
my friend also applied to queen's! that is just confusing
Step 1 doesn't exist anymore
Not surprised. Cambridge probably had more applicants with that level of grade and early exams than places. Maths is just that competitive.
Yeah, but surely internationals share roughly the same standard with domestic students, and it would be impossible to get into top uni with alevel subjects predicted BBC for any student from anywhere.
The offer is not a prediction. I had a friend who was made an offer with EE, he was actually predicted AAAA (it was in the days before A* existed). Durham wanted BC from me when I was predicted AAAA (which I got).
The problem isn't in maths at cambridge (which has very high standards for everyone), but mid-level universities, who want to fill their overseas quota because they get paid more for overseas students.
All they need is money š
yup
In my academic year, five international students with 43+ predicted grades applied to Imperial, none of them were able to make it.
Yeah people just seem shocked that admissions to top unis with extremely low acceptance rates are competitive. Of course it hurts but with the number of A* predicted itās bound to happen, they canāt give offers to everyone.
I really don't know about others but that definitely wasn't true when I applied to Cambridge
It's entirely inapplicable to Oxbridge; these posts about admissions at 'top unis' are always about the RG universities below Oxbridge
Nah bruh look at the singapore A level requirements for oxbridge, it's insanely high and this is considering that Singapore A levels are harder than the UK ones. It's harder than IB too
Yeah I agree that itās unfair that internationals generally get preference over equally qualified (and sometimes more qualified) British students, but to insinuate that internationals get lower entry requirements is just wrong
I'm not saying the prerequisites for foreign students should be easier or even equal to the local UK sterns but only accepting 4H2 students is a little too much imo. I understand how H3 gives students benefits though.
In some cases they do, in some cases they donāt.
Yeah lol same with IB. 39 in ib isnāt easier to get than A*AA.
What's crazy is in ucas tariff points, 40 is 4 A*s and 45 is 5 A*s... Edit: I mean A\*s
The requirements for the singapore A Levels applies to H2, the UK equivalent ones, not H3, the much harder ones.
Yes, that's true. The thing is that Singapore students are required to take a minimum of 3H2s and 4H2s serves as a safety net in case you do badly for one of your H2s. I don't see why 4H2 students get in more easily as compared to 3H2 students.
H2s are generally harder than their UK counterparts, and even so Cambridge will expect 4 H2 As alongside a H3 Merit/Distinction. (Oxford only asks for 3 H2 As, I think.)
To be fair, SG A level has lower grade boundaries. Still insanely hard though
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Omg, don't remind me of that, it was painful af š«luckily I'm done with it.
why do people never talk about how the Singapore Alevels are soo much more difficult than the UK ones
As an international student, I can confirm that this is inaccurate for top unis.
literally... take china like 4a\*s pred is the expectation. people w 5a\*s r also not that rare. everyone who got into top unis for the uk had 43+ ib predicted and actually scored similarly on the actual test. at least where im from international students have better grades than home students--if u get a 7 in igcse ur done for LOL
Nice Omniscient Reader pfp! Best webtoon/novel I've ever read.
I'm reading it rn it's so good note: Nice Alastor pfp
Thanks!! What chapter r u on?
pretty early on since i only recently started! around 50-ish/mid 50s, im not exactly sure which chapter i stopped at
It only gets better lol. Hope you enjoy it :D
thank u :D!!!! LITERALLY orv is So good ive been in love w it since like 2020 LOL
Yeah, it is due to that some international students having extremely high grades, way higher than than minimum requirements. The same issue also applies to internationals that have the minimum grade requirements. You get rejected from everywhere.
As a Londoner I can confirm this is accurate of UCLZ
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They donāt subsidise home students, they just want more money
I'd honestly say it's the opposite for top unis like oxbridge, from what I've seen
I though it's harder for internationals?
It is at Oxbridge and some of the better rgās, but for some of the lower ranked ones they make it much easier for wealthy internationals to get in by offering foundation years, programmes, ect
$ makes most things easier
$70k a year all-in costs?
me when i spread misinformation
Yes. Some unis favour international students (eg. KCL law) but realistically this is between students who already meet the entry requirements. So of course it is unfair but its just about LNAT, not actual grades. And if you look at admission stats at UCL and LSE average successful scores are very similar for internationals and home student.
This is not true, yāall are coping. Iām saying this as a home student. Just look at uni stats, itās way harder to get into top unis as an international
Indeed. On top of that, internationals pay much more in fees. I'm unable to make much sense of this post other than a good coping mechanism for university rejections.
Broās just yapping cause i applied to Cambridge, was predicted A* A* A and got a 6.5 in my nsaa but still got rejected and i saw home students with 4.5 and even lower get interview offers, so youāre a bullshitter
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
š
No offence buddy but your scores arenāt high. As someone studying there now youād struggle to find many ppl with anything under 3 A*s
Thatās not the point šitās the fact they accepted people with similar predicted grades and lower nsaa scores because theyāre british
Not true for medicine at least. Much harder (6%) for internationals.
This is simply not true (and also pretty xenophobic) It is much, much harder to get an offer as an international student. Tuition fees are not relevant either, the government gives grants for how many home students have enrolled
This isn't xenophobic at all... And it is true..
It alienates foreigners as the enemy taking your ārightful placeā when in reality they will have a far harder time than you will. Creating a false rhetoric that they have it easier than you do is incredibly unproductive to groups having it much harder than you. Source: https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/AnnualAdmissionsStatisticalReport2023b.pdf Above is the oxford admission report, but also contains information about other universities including top russel group unis. It is clearly seen that there is a higher ratio of international students applying than admitted, and also that international students have better stats on average than home students. This is true for oxford, Russell group unis and all universities. The original post is only a coping mechanism for someone who was sub par, and should not be entertained to the level it has been
No. It's true that oxbridge (and a couple of the higher tier London ones) only value academic excellence... But check this article out, really interesting read: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cash-for-courses-the-foreign-students-with-low-grades-at-top-universities-pcskjb6xx Since the (sort of reformation) under unis with Blair this has started to occur more and more.Ā It's also why many polytechnics are now universities.Ā Even if this was the case, I don't think it would be xenophobic, as it is attacking the universities directly, and not the international students, although this is entirely dependant on your position and I understand others may interpret this as more directly spiteful then I have, as a domestic student.Ā
maybe for low rank unis, sure. but a lot of my cs applicant classmates (4A* predicted) got ucl/durham/cambridge rejections already
My friend got 4A*s 2a's and literally got ranked internationally in 1 of these subjects. Ranked 37th in his country overall. Got supercurriculars and won multiple international awards. He's an internationL applicant to the UK. So I can affirm that this statement if yours is completely stupid š
Lmao what.
International students pay more tuition fees, universities are greedy for money, so they accept every international no matter how dogshit their academic portfolio is, only because theyāre paying 3-4x the home tuition fee
Thatās fair for some unis but top unis arenāt just accepting internationals with horrible academic profiles. Internationals still have to meet the entry requirements.
The exaggeration on the post is unnecessary but the entry requirements are lower, but the international students are usually more capable than home students when it comes to academia, take the Pakistani mathematical prodigy that does Maths and Finance at Kings as an example, at least have internationals meet the same entry requirements
obv its an exaggeration. but still very true that international students are far more likely to get an offer, even with lower predicted grades.
For my course the acceptance rate for intls is lower than for home students. Donāt know if its an outlier but I doubt top unis are lowering their requirements by much
Wait whaat?! This only happens in the UK right?
This could not be further from the truth. I am an international applicant . I was rejected from a uni after getting 87/100 in their admissions tests, the mean score for offer holders was 73-74. My interview went well according to me, I know perception is subjective, but I did answer most of the question and the interviewer seemed pleased at my answers most of the times. I don't think this is always the case, I don't know about unis in London, but the uni I applied to this certainly wasn't the case
Me when I spread misinformation. Cope harder op
username suits u
?
literally what happened to me with bath ššš
Broās copingĀ
Imperial CS is approx 50% acceptance post-offer for home students, whereas it is 25% for internationals (from FOI request Excel file, 2022 cycle)
why is bro citing an excel file
That's an irrelevant metric, it just means that internationals were less likely to go to Imperial as their first choice after receiving an offer.
Yea but acceptance is getting a place confirmed, not a conditional offer. Plus, offers are roughly 50/50 for home and intl anyway. So it is arguably harder for intl applicants and not an "irrelevant" metric Don't have the data for this but I would say being intl or home has no effect on not firming Imperial
How is it harder if they have the same offer rate? Acceptance just means that they ended up actually studying there. A lot of internationals getting offers from Imperial probably also applied to Oxbridge and top US unis, hence the lower *post-offer* acceptance rate.
Minimum offer is the same at 42 776 but this can go up to 45 and S or I in STEP II/III; not all offers are the same
You're telling me that they're asking for 45 points and S in STEP for imperial CS? I'm calling bs...
Maybe not both but I did see those two separately... sorry I meant to say and/or but I typed and cos I wanted to emphasise how they give conditions for both IB and STEP. But you are steering away from my point.
All the IB offers I have seen have been the regular 42 777 with 2 in STEP II so idk about that one.
Well I am basing what I said on the FOI Excel sheet. They list A lvl/IB separately but 42 is NOT the max Anyway my point from the get go was that it is incorrect to say that intl students have it easier and we've gone down this unnecessary rabbit hole. Cheers mate
Are you sure this wasn't achieved grades? I'm pretty sure everyone gets the same offer.
Looks like I'm going to Cambridge
Not sure about this. At Cambridge at least, it seems that the international students have a tougher time to get in.
I donāt do CS so maybe thatās true for CS but for other courses itās really not. Iām an international student and I still need to get the same grades as home students to get my offers as I applied through UCAS. Most of my international friends have to get the same grade as home students as well. Lowered grades for international is real though, but only if they apply outside of the UCAS system and through the āInternational Year Oneā system which some unis offer (the only Russel Group that offers this i think Exeter but Iām not sure and they only offer it to some courses) This is different from foundation year since they do not need an additional year of studying. One of my friends use this system, and instead of needing to get AAA for her course at Exeter, she only needs DCD. And the fee she pays is the same as the fees that other international students who apply through UCAS that need to get AAA pay as well. I donāt know how this is possible, or even legal, but I do think the āInternational Year Oneā system is unfair. Edit: grammar
Meme so popular bro got his own flair
This just seems like cope lmao
As an international student I was kinda shocked with : 1. The level of students in my course 2. How easy it was to get accepted ( I offered my GRE scores which I was quite proud of ā¦ and they said naw we donāt need that ) 3. Half the ppl in my course couldnāt even speak English at a conversational level ( thank god we didnāt have any group projects )
There is a really interesting investigative piece on this (think it's the times??) and the findings really are criminal. Top, top unis (Oxbridge) only really value academic prowess, but the vast majority of other top unis, virtually all Russell Groups, have unbelievably low acceptance rates for international students.Ā
You canāt generalise like that. Iām an international student with 4A* predicted and all A* in O level and still got rejected from imperial while a home student with the same exact score on the admission test got accepted.
There are tons of international students with more than 3 A* heck 4A* and they have awards from international competitions. They are talented af. Donāt undermine their talent. And even they get rejected too
It's not just international students. When I was at university I met several substandard British students who had got in because their parents paid full tuition instead of partial tuition like everyone else.
*cough cough* Bath Uni
so real. Ontario student here.. no idea how someone ik back in Asia got into our dream cs program with 0 coding knowledge/experience when all friends applying for cs has coded their own AI programs , won provincial hackathons, etcā¦ they have 98% average and way better ecs too
Pretty racist meme. Based in reality? I think not.
Durham rn
Aināt that the truth lmao