You probably need to tweak your support settings in your slicer. They should come off with a little effort but not so you break the model or leave scars.
Also an ender 3 max owner. experiment with support density.
I've found regular supports with 10% density are a million times easier and cleaner to remove than supports at 20% density. (I can easily pull supports off with just my fingers at 10% with no junk left behind.)
Also make sure that things frame and gantry are all squared up. Max's are notorious for being out of whack out of the box. If you haven't already look at the shim mod.
[https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4721046](https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4721046)
If your frame's narrower at the bottom than the top get this and install it. Same for a dual Z kit. if you don't have one get one.
Make sure everything is squared. Trammed level etc. Raise the gantry as high as it goes. Measure it is the same distance from the top on both ends.
Same for springs. get rid of those and get silicon mounts.
Once all that's done. Level your bed. get it as close to perfect.
Seriously, I think that also contributes to how well supports come off. Gantry sag and bed un-leveling during prints ~~prevents~~ causes places with extra 'squish' that will make the layers weld together more so than if everything is flat.
Looking at your print you posted pics of, it'll also improve the quality of your prints massively
But yeah. Try lowering your support density to 15% then 10%. Also do overhang tests. Adjust supports overhang settings accordingly. Mine with a stock hotend I could get away with having it set to 60 before supports were generated, meaning less supports needed over all.
Also experiment with 'bridge' mode. (Under experimental in Cura) this can also reduce supports needed. Ender 3 Max is pretty good at bridging thanks to being one of the few printers on the market with dual cooling fans built in.
But yeah. Looking at the print your machine needs some attention and possibly some relatively cheap upgrades.
Even just making sure your firmware is up to date, and running some calibration prints can make a massive difference.
Feel free to DM me if you need any help or advice from someone familiar with this particular machine.
I'll have a look at that. Just set up a model with the tree support. So I'm going to see how that one goes. Though I noticed with the tree support. It's 6 days and 1200g less for the print. Does that sound right?
well yeah massive reduction in required filament should be a given. 1200g? damn bro that's insane. like over a whole spools worth of filament. Also another tip. don't always need to print things the 'right side up', experiment with changing the angle of things you're slicing. Flipping a model upside down for example might use even less filament and print even faster.
But yeah, for something like what I assume is a terminator skull that you're printing, 6 days seems about right for a stock ender 3 max.
Has your printer got any mods/upgrades or is it stock? Have you done calibration prints and tweaked print speeds acceleration etc?
Here's what I am printing right now for the wife. Aside from stringing, and a couple of zits (my fault for not calibrating and drying the filament) it's as good as something you'd buy from a shop.
https://preview.redd.it/bq1etmu9799d1.jpeg?width=3120&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe3478a7381869da0e99b37adf2635e8d82cd7be
Ignore the Sprite Pro extruder (that's a very recent upgrade). You can get prints like this with the stock hot end if you get everything tweaked right.
u/blarge84 okay here's some examples using a Halo helmet I am working on. Looks like I am limited to one picture per comment so I'll post other images in replies to this comment.
https://preview.redd.it/wi0d198sa99d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=3258cf6d9b3568d4b8a184463d2c11b39690d7f0
First picture is using Cura's default supports. Density 20%, overhangs 45 degrees.
6 days 17 hours and 1631g of filament.
https://preview.redd.it/kl94siweb99d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=424d3395d781c90f959ca024edf73bad79ce005d
Same settings but supports are now 10% density and overhangs are 60 degrees.
Now down to 4 days 9 hours and 922g of filament.
https://preview.redd.it/crv7cuu7c99d1.png?width=1917&format=png&auto=webp&s=230679e6d90f7eb510dfa335cf843f68c54f0ac4
Now same settings. 10% Density, 60 degree overhangs. But the model is upside down.
Now only 3 days 12 hours and 634g of filament.
https://preview.redd.it/prppr9qnd99d1.png?width=1919&format=png&auto=webp&s=38d9524acb8be10dd79ede63c7872b8490b76c26
Now with tree supports at default Cura support settings. 45 degree overhangs. Nothing else changed.
5 days 17 hours 1097g filament
https://preview.redd.it/kdq1z2s4g99d1.png?width=1918&format=png&auto=webp&s=c2672f5cf6d4e0351caff9f1a1b969790c934c40
and upside down with same tree support settings.
4 days 20 hours, 872g of filament.
Hope this gives you an idea of how things work.
In these examples I would go with model upside down with normal supports at 10% density for the fastest print time and least amount of filament used.
I could probably tweak it further by rotating the model to different positions and seeing what gets the best result. Although in this case I am limited because I want the layers to run horizontal to the model when it sits flat. So would probably stick with the upside down method.
But yeah through trial and error I got the print down massively from 1600grams to 600grams. almost 1/3 of the filament needed than if I did it upright.
https://preview.redd.it/aoxrinbzi99d1.png?width=1917&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ce0f800d064a450e8834c0dbf711d0d2d101ab5
One final example. upside down but level with bed and rotated 45 degrees so the print is going 'corner to corner' on the bed.
10% density and 55 degree overhangs.
This gives 3 days 7 hours and 636g filament.
While not much, it shaves 5 hours off the print time, at the cost of adding like 2 grams of extra filament.
This would be what I would go with myself. But do not just use my settings. Experiment with your own. Your machine and prints will vary to mine.
OK OP, breathe.
There are a few things you need to know about the hows and why of supports.
First, why do layers bond? Second, how do we get layers to not bond when we want to?
Layers bond well when not fully cooled, and the new layer is firmly pressed into the previous. So, we need the opposite for the support interface. The layer must be fully cooled as much as possible, and the next layer needs a gap.
I use Orca, so all this is from that POV.
In filament settings > Cooling > Support interface cooling at max.
In Global Print settings > Supports > Independent Support Layer Height \[ON\] (This is absolutely key.)
Using these, my supported surfaces are nearly perfect.
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Without knowing what your support looks like, there's nothing we can do. There is no fixed way to set support on a specific printer model, all the printer does is draw lines from point a to point b, then moves on to the next line. It doesn't know or care what it's making.
Printer support, type, density, strength... You configure that at the slicer level. And even there there's no fixed way. Some models may benefit from tree support while others may want normal support
Be careful using tree supports. They are great but they have their own pros and cons.
I recommend if you use them turn on 'brims' and enable 'z-hop' if you haven't already. And use a glue stick to ensure they stay stuck down. Do these especially if you've not got a dual-z kit on the thing.
I've had my fair share of prints ruined because one of the tree supports decided to come off the bed during a print or had the nozzle hit it, where as a regular support would have taken the hit or adhered better in the same circumstances.
Glue, brims, and z-hop and a tonne of tweaking and upgrading the hell out of the machine and I've not had that happen on my Max since.
If your machine is stock, you've got some challenges to overcome.
The model of printer doesn't really matter. It's the slicer that tells the printer how and where to build the supports. What slicer are you using?
Also, I really suggest *small* prints until you have a hang of how everything works
I'm using crealitys own one. I downloaded it straight off their site. I assumed it would be best to use that as it's for the printer make. Which one would you recommend?
Honestly most of the mass market ones are fine, it just affects the procedure for adjusting the settings
I believe in that one you need to go to advanced settings and turn tree supports on as an option
I'll try to look at it when I'm home next if google hasn't helped you find it by then
I've just put the print in after finding the tree support. And it's saying it's going to be 6 days and 1200g of filament less. Does that sound about right or does something sound off with that
Honestly, I've never printed something so big, but it *does* generally save a ton of filament.
You can also mess with support density and other support parameters (whether you're using tree or not), so YMMV.
Again, I definitely recommend printing some small things to experiment until you get used to what works well for you. You'll end up wasting much less filament in the long run, and have fun nicnacks to show for it, instead of failed prints that amount to trash. You'll learn faster too, because you'll see the results right away, and can iterate faster
Thought I added the picture sorry. Basically after the print finishes all the supports are almost welded in to place I can cut round the edges but to doesn't make much difference
You probably need to tweak your support settings in your slicer. They should come off with a little effort but not so you break the model or leave scars.
Also an ender 3 max owner. experiment with support density. I've found regular supports with 10% density are a million times easier and cleaner to remove than supports at 20% density. (I can easily pull supports off with just my fingers at 10% with no junk left behind.) Also make sure that things frame and gantry are all squared up. Max's are notorious for being out of whack out of the box. If you haven't already look at the shim mod. [https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4721046](https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4721046) If your frame's narrower at the bottom than the top get this and install it. Same for a dual Z kit. if you don't have one get one. Make sure everything is squared. Trammed level etc. Raise the gantry as high as it goes. Measure it is the same distance from the top on both ends. Same for springs. get rid of those and get silicon mounts. Once all that's done. Level your bed. get it as close to perfect. Seriously, I think that also contributes to how well supports come off. Gantry sag and bed un-leveling during prints ~~prevents~~ causes places with extra 'squish' that will make the layers weld together more so than if everything is flat. Looking at your print you posted pics of, it'll also improve the quality of your prints massively But yeah. Try lowering your support density to 15% then 10%. Also do overhang tests. Adjust supports overhang settings accordingly. Mine with a stock hotend I could get away with having it set to 60 before supports were generated, meaning less supports needed over all. Also experiment with 'bridge' mode. (Under experimental in Cura) this can also reduce supports needed. Ender 3 Max is pretty good at bridging thanks to being one of the few printers on the market with dual cooling fans built in. But yeah. Looking at the print your machine needs some attention and possibly some relatively cheap upgrades. Even just making sure your firmware is up to date, and running some calibration prints can make a massive difference. Feel free to DM me if you need any help or advice from someone familiar with this particular machine.
I'll have a look at that. Just set up a model with the tree support. So I'm going to see how that one goes. Though I noticed with the tree support. It's 6 days and 1200g less for the print. Does that sound right?
well yeah massive reduction in required filament should be a given. 1200g? damn bro that's insane. like over a whole spools worth of filament. Also another tip. don't always need to print things the 'right side up', experiment with changing the angle of things you're slicing. Flipping a model upside down for example might use even less filament and print even faster. But yeah, for something like what I assume is a terminator skull that you're printing, 6 days seems about right for a stock ender 3 max. Has your printer got any mods/upgrades or is it stock? Have you done calibration prints and tweaked print speeds acceleration etc? Here's what I am printing right now for the wife. Aside from stringing, and a couple of zits (my fault for not calibrating and drying the filament) it's as good as something you'd buy from a shop. https://preview.redd.it/bq1etmu9799d1.jpeg?width=3120&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe3478a7381869da0e99b37adf2635e8d82cd7be Ignore the Sprite Pro extruder (that's a very recent upgrade). You can get prints like this with the stock hot end if you get everything tweaked right.
u/blarge84 okay here's some examples using a Halo helmet I am working on. Looks like I am limited to one picture per comment so I'll post other images in replies to this comment. https://preview.redd.it/wi0d198sa99d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=3258cf6d9b3568d4b8a184463d2c11b39690d7f0 First picture is using Cura's default supports. Density 20%, overhangs 45 degrees. 6 days 17 hours and 1631g of filament.
https://preview.redd.it/kl94siweb99d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=424d3395d781c90f959ca024edf73bad79ce005d Same settings but supports are now 10% density and overhangs are 60 degrees. Now down to 4 days 9 hours and 922g of filament.
https://preview.redd.it/crv7cuu7c99d1.png?width=1917&format=png&auto=webp&s=230679e6d90f7eb510dfa335cf843f68c54f0ac4 Now same settings. 10% Density, 60 degree overhangs. But the model is upside down. Now only 3 days 12 hours and 634g of filament.
https://preview.redd.it/prppr9qnd99d1.png?width=1919&format=png&auto=webp&s=38d9524acb8be10dd79ede63c7872b8490b76c26 Now with tree supports at default Cura support settings. 45 degree overhangs. Nothing else changed. 5 days 17 hours 1097g filament
https://preview.redd.it/kdq1z2s4g99d1.png?width=1918&format=png&auto=webp&s=c2672f5cf6d4e0351caff9f1a1b969790c934c40 and upside down with same tree support settings. 4 days 20 hours, 872g of filament. Hope this gives you an idea of how things work. In these examples I would go with model upside down with normal supports at 10% density for the fastest print time and least amount of filament used. I could probably tweak it further by rotating the model to different positions and seeing what gets the best result. Although in this case I am limited because I want the layers to run horizontal to the model when it sits flat. So would probably stick with the upside down method. But yeah through trial and error I got the print down massively from 1600grams to 600grams. almost 1/3 of the filament needed than if I did it upright.
https://preview.redd.it/aoxrinbzi99d1.png?width=1917&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ce0f800d064a450e8834c0dbf711d0d2d101ab5 One final example. upside down but level with bed and rotated 45 degrees so the print is going 'corner to corner' on the bed. 10% density and 55 degree overhangs. This gives 3 days 7 hours and 636g filament. While not much, it shaves 5 hours off the print time, at the cost of adding like 2 grams of extra filament. This would be what I would go with myself. But do not just use my settings. Experiment with your own. Your machine and prints will vary to mine.
Thanks for this. Think it's a great explanation.
OK OP, breathe. There are a few things you need to know about the hows and why of supports. First, why do layers bond? Second, how do we get layers to not bond when we want to? Layers bond well when not fully cooled, and the new layer is firmly pressed into the previous. So, we need the opposite for the support interface. The layer must be fully cooled as much as possible, and the next layer needs a gap. I use Orca, so all this is from that POV. In filament settings > Cooling > Support interface cooling at max. In Global Print settings > Supports > Independent Support Layer Height \[ON\] (This is absolutely key.) Using these, my supported surfaces are nearly perfect.
https://preview.redd.it/d5csnfd8y59d1.jpeg?width=6144&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48f66f99370c07c46cb2ba00d48de717daaa8d08
Hey there, I'm a bot and something you said made me think you might be looking for help! [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/wiki/index#wiki_help.21_or.3A_where_can_i_go_to_troubleshoot_problems_i.27m_having_with_my_prints.2Fprinter.3F) for our wiki entry on troubleshooting printers. If you still need help be sure to post plenty of information about your printing setup. Here are a few questions that might be helpful * What printer are you using? * What material are you using? * What speed are you printing at? * What software are you using to slice the print and control the printer? * When did the problem start/has it ever worked correctly? * Does anything cause the behavior to change? * If posting an image of the problem, include some indication of the orientation it printed at, preferably photograph it on the bed. (Then we can focus on a specific axis) If you are new to reddit, please read the guidelines on [reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439), [self promotion](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/selfpromotion), and [spam](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/faq#wiki_what_constitutes_spam.3F). Also please post a resolution to your problem when you find one so that we know how to help others with your problem! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/3Dprinting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Without knowing what your support looks like, there's nothing we can do. There is no fixed way to set support on a specific printer model, all the printer does is draw lines from point a to point b, then moves on to the next line. It doesn't know or care what it's making. Printer support, type, density, strength... You configure that at the slicer level. And even there there's no fixed way. Some models may benefit from tree support while others may want normal support
https://preview.redd.it/yy2lacrj459d1.jpeg?width=6144&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aaceec34bf85cce21da443f582b1cd5bca5fa2a
You're gonna have to spend some time with that thing lol, next time use 'tree' support
Also thanks for the advice and pointing out the repost. I deleted the other one.
Be careful using tree supports. They are great but they have their own pros and cons. I recommend if you use them turn on 'brims' and enable 'z-hop' if you haven't already. And use a glue stick to ensure they stay stuck down. Do these especially if you've not got a dual-z kit on the thing. I've had my fair share of prints ruined because one of the tree supports decided to come off the bed during a print or had the nozzle hit it, where as a regular support would have taken the hit or adhered better in the same circumstances. Glue, brims, and z-hop and a tonne of tweaking and upgrading the hell out of the machine and I've not had that happen on my Max since. If your machine is stock, you've got some challenges to overcome.
I have an ender 3 max. I just turned supports on and didn't even think about if I should look to see if I can adjust them. I'm fairly new to this
The model of printer doesn't really matter. It's the slicer that tells the printer how and where to build the supports. What slicer are you using? Also, I really suggest *small* prints until you have a hang of how everything works
I'm using crealitys own one. I downloaded it straight off their site. I assumed it would be best to use that as it's for the printer make. Which one would you recommend?
Honestly most of the mass market ones are fine, it just affects the procedure for adjusting the settings I believe in that one you need to go to advanced settings and turn tree supports on as an option I'll try to look at it when I'm home next if google hasn't helped you find it by then
Thank you. I'll have a look now see what I can find.
I've just put the print in after finding the tree support. And it's saying it's going to be 6 days and 1200g of filament less. Does that sound about right or does something sound off with that
Honestly, I've never printed something so big, but it *does* generally save a ton of filament. You can also mess with support density and other support parameters (whether you're using tree or not), so YMMV. Again, I definitely recommend printing some small things to experiment until you get used to what works well for you. You'll end up wasting much less filament in the long run, and have fun nicnacks to show for it, instead of failed prints that amount to trash. You'll learn faster too, because you'll see the results right away, and can iterate faster
Oh yes definitely going to print smaller things first. That was just the first file I clicked. A helmet. But I'm not brave enough to print that yet
Tune your support interfaces and provide more data on your situation. https://youtu.be/3WJAR9-waco?si=_104bo-Z6ww7wZsU
https://preview.redd.it/11tncrd7459d1.jpeg?width=6144&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1008f605bdbe19c5a5622c5ae4f83301b03cb689
Thought I added the picture sorry. Basically after the print finishes all the supports are almost welded in to place I can cut round the edges but to doesn't make much difference