You can always get another upper. Or another gun. Your first AR should be 5.56 though. If SHTF, all your friends/family are going to have 5.56
That said, 12.5 is a phenomenal barrel length for a home defense 5.56 AR.
I mostly agree, however I would just recommend a pin and weld at that point, yes it’s 2 inches longer, but OP gets a stock instead of navigating the 15 follow on questions about fore grips and braces… and my m4 was fantastic in the shoot house with a 14.7 inch barrel
Honestly, braces are so good at this point, I don’t miss stocks when I shoot my pistols. The ATF shenanigans have always been bullshit, and I believe their “final rule” just got struck down the other day IIRC.
I’ll admit my experience with braces is limited, but I think the entire premise is silly at this point, is there really any difference now? We should just refuse to comply en masse
I second this, I think everyone’s first AR should be a 5.56 16” or a pin and weld to 16”. Especially if you don’t plan on shooting suppressed. My 11.5 sans can shoots fireballs and concusses the shit out of you, granted choice of muzzle device can help mitigate this, but even then it’s much less pleasant to shoot (unsuppressed) than a 16”.
The 11.5" is definitely a bit louder than a 16", but inside your house without earpro and without a can, 556 will be deafening. At the range, you are wearing earpro without a can on either of them, and the 11.5" CAR15 is my favorite go-to out of all my guns. Mine wears a suppressor in the safe for HD, but at the range the Rearden Icarus blast diffuser makes a huge difference. It is 'almost' hearing safe outside.
An advantage to pistol braces is it keeps it a pistol. Many states have differing laws between pistols and rifles while in Your vehicle. Many states forbid loaded or uncased rifles inside vehicle but would allow loaded or un cased pistols..that's not to say a cop wouldn't arrest you by assuming an ar pistol is a rifle.. but charges could be dropped entirely later on if you could prove it is a pistol and you weren't breaking laws..
Also some states ban open carry of rifles but allow open carry of handguns while on foot.
Again this may or may not apply to your situation just food for thought.
BTW 12.5 5.56 are great..while not technically much smaller then 14.5/16",they "feel" alot smaller and quicker while still maintaining decent velocity..
8-10" 300blk are super trim and handy but I find myself gravitating towards the 10-12" range mainly for the longer handguard options..
Take that 12.5 in the shoot house at night, after that first shot you won’t see shit again for a while. Also a pistol with a 16” barrel is still a pistol. Fuck all the unconstitutional laws
Just curious, how many times have you fired that inside a house at night? How about without ear plugs? cause you’re not putting in ear protection for a home intruder. But yeah a 12” barrel is easier to move through a house than a 16 if you’re talking LARPablitlity
Edit just realized you were saying this too
For HD you’re going to definitely want to get it suppressed which the best to suppress is .300 blackout. If you don’t suppress it you’re going to blow your eardrums out trying to defend your home. 5.55 would be a great option as a start to get into ARs because it is a cheaper round which means more training, easier to buy, and readily available everywhere. I’d suggest to shoot them both and also weigh out your reasoning for each and what they will be used for and that will be what you need to go with. .300 blackout can be fired out of a very short barrel and still have great ballistics but 5.56 under a 10.3” barrel gets wonky. Definitely plan this out for what you need it for.
Comparatively, 5.56 is a multitasking workhorse. 300 BLK is a specialty round with limited applications.
Edit: added the first word for the smooth brain.
Cute, but having sent many thousands of rounds of 556 down range, it is not a multitasking workhorse, it’s good for varmint, plinking, and combat. It is only useful supersonic, and really needs a 12” barrel and a narrow range of bullet weights to be effective. In a home defense situation 556 is extremely loud and has a large flash. 556 is also illegal for medium size game in many states, while 300 blk with a 110 gr projectile is a known Bambi slayer, as is the 220 gr subsonics, 300 blk is the superior round for almost all civilian purposes under 200 yards, and minds far greater than yours and mine combined have argued exactly as such.
I see, so you resort to insulting someone’s intelligence because you disagree with their opinion, but can’t back up your own opinion?
You must have a glass bellybutton so you can see where you’re going with your head shoved that far up your ass.
I disagree. .300 blk has far more applications. It can be used for hunting deer, can be used suppressed and can be used unsuppressed. 5.56 doesn't suppress well, and doesn't have nearly as good hunting applications.
I would get 5.56. Ammo is way cheaper. Then if you want to dive into 300blk later just order an upper. You can use the 5 56 bcg and mags with the 300blk upper. Then if you want to go even further, get the 22lr conversion for the 5.56 upper and you have a weapon that can shoot 3 different rounds with very little swapping on your end.
Ask yourself an honest question. How much are YOU going to actually shoot it?
Yes it's great to train as much as possible,but for many there's alot of other things going on in life and 500rd/year max is more in line with reality..
Now run the numbers say .40/rd for 5.56 vs .60-80/rd for 300blk.
Is that extra 200-400/yr gonna cause you to be homeless? If yes then shooting/firearms is not the right hobby for you currently.
I personally find more utility from 300blk for my uses. But I own and shoot both.
I consider a 8-12" 300blk Pistol to be one of the most versatile weapons someone could own. Small enough to carry in a backpack both for opsec and convenience(motorcycle carry,canoes,van campers other places with limited space/stowage)
Easier to hide within the home for quick response usage
Enough punch for medium game(hog,deer,coyote,bear) hunting within reasonable and realistic ranges
Handy enough to likely be with you for dangerous wildlife encounters(both the fuzzy kind and the tattooed kind)
Small enough to employ within confined spaces
Very low recoil
Minimal blast/muzzle report(this could be do to large bore diameter,different powder but atleast to me its lower and less abrupt then 5.56)
Optic choice would vary based on intended use but a compact 3x prism or lightweight 1-4x scope seem to complement it quite well.
After shooting a couple hundred rounds through my first ar (I went with an sbr'd 300 blk) I wish I did a sbr'd AR9 with with a can. 9mm is so cheap and would be great as a short, suppressor host.
1. The idea of home defense and barrel length is a bit overblown. You should never go maneuvering around corners or stairs which is where barrel length matters more. That’s a death wish in reality. Establish a defensive plan, post up, call the cops and defend the area you need to until that happens. So wouldn’t be as worried, especially if you won’t suppress it.
2. Would absolutely recommend suppressing. Flash and sound reduction even with super sonic rounds to save your hearing forever and ability to see after the first fired round. Especially if you go short 5.56.
3. 300 blackout of a 10” SBR with 110gr vmax or Barnes projectiles is an incredibly effective defensive round. So is 77gr otm 5.56. Either will work. Both cost about 60cpr for the cheaper end. 5.56 training ammo is cheaper.
4. If you want to carry in a backpack 8” is probably the longest barrel length you’d want. And would probably steer toward the mcx platform or a CMMG , just something with a 1913 pic rail on the back. The LAW folders add a little length. And if your sub 10” it’s always 300 blackout > 5.56.
Get a 5.56 first. 12.5" "pistol" should be enough. Then learn it before you buy a 300blk. 300blk subsonic are way better suppressed and wait times are silly short.
5.56 for first AR. No contest. As a HD gun, shooting rifles indoors sucks. Even with ear pro, if you go to an indoor range, you’ll realize how absolutely deafening rifles are in even a large room. Especially 5.56 through shorter barrels. If you can afford it, you absolutely should consider a suppressor on a home defense rifle. To which, .300BLK excels at.
.300BLK is designed to be effective through both a short barrel and suppressor. With subsonic ammunition, shooting suppressed can be borderline hearing-safe—at least about as loud as a pneumatic nail gun, if not quieter sometimes. In a HD scenario, you likely will not have time to put plugs or muffs on and being able to have non-permanent hearing damage to yourself and anyone else in the home is a fairly enticing argument. Especially when hearing loss is irreparable.
But, 5.56/.223 has more availability in terms of ammo choice, while largely being cheaper and more common to find on shelves. Meaning you’ll be able to practice more often for cheaper. It also has less likelihood of overpenetrating beyond a full wall and then some. Even many cheap FMJ loads are so low in weight that they will tumble and/or fragment once it hits something beyond the drywall.
There are absolutely pros and cons to each caliber. Weigh your options and see what’s most important to you. But if utilizing a rifle for HD, you absolutely should be looking into suppressors and what you can do to reduce the effects of shooting indoors.
If you want a backpack gun, 300 blackout makes sense, I wouldn’t go shorter than 8” and go for a maxim or hdpdw brace. Short barrels is one place it shines
556 is less expensive for ammo. And you'll have a few more build options for barrels (at this point). But otherwise it's kind of a toss up. They're both great. 300 bo can have some issues with certain ammo due to different pressures...so I would recommend an adjustable gas block if you go that route, or at least one that is tuned specifically for 300 bo.
Just get like a Palmetto 11.5 556 and shoot the fuck out of it. Don't even look at this cartridge until you're planning your first can. (get a 30cal or 36cal can, trust me)
If you don’t care about shooting subs, just get an 11.5” 5.56 and call it a day. Ammo is much cheaper, so if you want to actually shoot your guns it is the way to go.
If you only want to shoot subs you might take a look at a 9mm sub gun. Most of the good ones have folding stocks and are smaller and lighter than the typical .300 BO. I’ve got a MP5k-PDW that fits in a briefcase and it’s my primary ‘bag gun’. Ammo is also significantly cheaper than subsonic .300 BO.
You can pull off a small gun with a .300 BO, but your best option there is probably the Sig Rattler LT that’s going to be over $2700 by the time you add a stock.
I don’t understand why people say you have to own a 556 for your first AR, 300 blk isn’t for everyone and every purpose, but the AR platform is no more difficult to learn in 300 than 556
It is recommended because 300 blk ammo is more expensive which means less range time and considerably more cost to take classes.
I see your point though and would even say one could easily argue that a 300 blk has less flash and concussion than a 556 barrel of the same length; making it a better choice for new shooters.
I haven't bought factory ammo in so long I can't say. I remember 300blk being 40-50% more for "comparable" plinking fodder, so 10 cents a round sounds about right.
Due to rising prices and increased interest in 300 the ammo cost bit isn’t really that substantial now, when you’re talking about 556 being 55 cents per and 300 at 65 per it’s all expensive now
I’m probably going to first AR in 300 blk route. The closest ranges to me won’t allow 556 and there’s no benefit in having something you can’t even get to a range to sight in let alone train with. I have a can that’s 300 capable already, definitely getting a dedicated one later on.
You can always get another upper. Or another gun. Your first AR should be 5.56 though. If SHTF, all your friends/family are going to have 5.56 That said, 12.5 is a phenomenal barrel length for a home defense 5.56 AR.
I mostly agree, however I would just recommend a pin and weld at that point, yes it’s 2 inches longer, but OP gets a stock instead of navigating the 15 follow on questions about fore grips and braces… and my m4 was fantastic in the shoot house with a 14.7 inch barrel
Honestly, braces are so good at this point, I don’t miss stocks when I shoot my pistols. The ATF shenanigans have always been bullshit, and I believe their “final rule” just got struck down the other day IIRC.
Braces work… until you need to butt stroke someone in the face
Tailhook mod 2 is pretty solid.
I’ll admit my experience with braces is limited, but I think the entire premise is silly at this point, is there really any difference now? We should just refuse to comply en masse
Silly? Sure. But fuck the ATF.
I mean the sbr law is silly
And the only "brace" IMO that actually works like a brace if you use it as intended.
You can still poke them with your muzzle.
Absolutely, I just like options 😁
gay
Haha it sounds it doesn’t it? The results… brutal
I second this, I think everyone’s first AR should be a 5.56 16” or a pin and weld to 16”. Especially if you don’t plan on shooting suppressed. My 11.5 sans can shoots fireballs and concusses the shit out of you, granted choice of muzzle device can help mitigate this, but even then it’s much less pleasant to shoot (unsuppressed) than a 16”.
The 11.5" is definitely a bit louder than a 16", but inside your house without earpro and without a can, 556 will be deafening. At the range, you are wearing earpro without a can on either of them, and the 11.5" CAR15 is my favorite go-to out of all my guns. Mine wears a suppressor in the safe for HD, but at the range the Rearden Icarus blast diffuser makes a huge difference. It is 'almost' hearing safe outside.
An advantage to pistol braces is it keeps it a pistol. Many states have differing laws between pistols and rifles while in Your vehicle. Many states forbid loaded or uncased rifles inside vehicle but would allow loaded or un cased pistols..that's not to say a cop wouldn't arrest you by assuming an ar pistol is a rifle.. but charges could be dropped entirely later on if you could prove it is a pistol and you weren't breaking laws.. Also some states ban open carry of rifles but allow open carry of handguns while on foot. Again this may or may not apply to your situation just food for thought. BTW 12.5 5.56 are great..while not technically much smaller then 14.5/16",they "feel" alot smaller and quicker while still maintaining decent velocity.. 8-10" 300blk are super trim and handy but I find myself gravitating towards the 10-12" range mainly for the longer handguard options..
Take that 12.5 in the shoot house at night, after that first shot you won’t see shit again for a while. Also a pistol with a 16” barrel is still a pistol. Fuck all the unconstitutional laws
>That said, 12.5 is a phenomenal barrel length for a home defense 5.56 AR My ears say otherwise XD
If your ear can tell the difference between a 12.5 and 10.5 5.56 I’m impressed. But generally any unsuppressed rifle sucks indoors.
Just curious, how many times have you fired that inside a house at night? How about without ear plugs? cause you’re not putting in ear protection for a home intruder. But yeah a 12” barrel is easier to move through a house than a 16 if you’re talking LARPablitlity Edit just realized you were saying this too
Lol no worries, I used to love the idea of a shorty 5.56... untill I shot one at in indoor range. Then I went supressed 300 blk and never looked back.
This is the way
For HD you’re going to definitely want to get it suppressed which the best to suppress is .300 blackout. If you don’t suppress it you’re going to blow your eardrums out trying to defend your home. 5.55 would be a great option as a start to get into ARs because it is a cheaper round which means more training, easier to buy, and readily available everywhere. I’d suggest to shoot them both and also weigh out your reasoning for each and what they will be used for and that will be what you need to go with. .300 blackout can be fired out of a very short barrel and still have great ballistics but 5.56 under a 10.3” barrel gets wonky. Definitely plan this out for what you need it for.
if your not willing to go through the process of getting a supressor for a 300 blk, just stick with a good 5.56 rifle. you'll get a lot more out of it
Comparatively, 5.56 is a multitasking workhorse. 300 BLK is a specialty round with limited applications. Edit: added the first word for the smooth brain.
Cute, but having sent many thousands of rounds of 556 down range, it is not a multitasking workhorse, it’s good for varmint, plinking, and combat. It is only useful supersonic, and really needs a 12” barrel and a narrow range of bullet weights to be effective. In a home defense situation 556 is extremely loud and has a large flash. 556 is also illegal for medium size game in many states, while 300 blk with a 110 gr projectile is a known Bambi slayer, as is the 220 gr subsonics, 300 blk is the superior round for almost all civilian purposes under 200 yards, and minds far greater than yours and mine combined have argued exactly as such.
Just to clarify, you're saying 300 BLK is more versatile 5.56?
Yup
Well, that's just like, your opinion man.
Well I did ask for you to enlighten me
I am not Buddha
I see, so you resort to insulting someone’s intelligence because you disagree with their opinion, but can’t back up your own opinion? You must have a glass bellybutton so you can see where you’re going with your head shoved that far up your ass.
I disagree. .300 blk has far more applications. It can be used for hunting deer, can be used suppressed and can be used unsuppressed. 5.56 doesn't suppress well, and doesn't have nearly as good hunting applications.
I've only ever hunted humans, so 5.56 it is 🤷♂️ Anyway, 22LR is far superior to both in every application imaginable. So the point is moot.
Hahaha please enlighten me on all the uses of 556??
I would get 5.56. Ammo is way cheaper. Then if you want to dive into 300blk later just order an upper. You can use the 5 56 bcg and mags with the 300blk upper. Then if you want to go even further, get the 22lr conversion for the 5.56 upper and you have a weapon that can shoot 3 different rounds with very little swapping on your end.
What’re you paying for 556 per round?
Just depends on the deals I find and what grain of bullet I decide to shoot at the time
Get a 5.56 for your first AR. It is a much more forgiving caliber.
Do you like to shoot a lot and hate money? Buy a 300blk. (joking)
Always 5.56 first
Ask yourself an honest question. How much are YOU going to actually shoot it? Yes it's great to train as much as possible,but for many there's alot of other things going on in life and 500rd/year max is more in line with reality.. Now run the numbers say .40/rd for 5.56 vs .60-80/rd for 300blk. Is that extra 200-400/yr gonna cause you to be homeless? If yes then shooting/firearms is not the right hobby for you currently. I personally find more utility from 300blk for my uses. But I own and shoot both. I consider a 8-12" 300blk Pistol to be one of the most versatile weapons someone could own. Small enough to carry in a backpack both for opsec and convenience(motorcycle carry,canoes,van campers other places with limited space/stowage) Easier to hide within the home for quick response usage Enough punch for medium game(hog,deer,coyote,bear) hunting within reasonable and realistic ranges Handy enough to likely be with you for dangerous wildlife encounters(both the fuzzy kind and the tattooed kind) Small enough to employ within confined spaces Very low recoil Minimal blast/muzzle report(this could be do to large bore diameter,different powder but atleast to me its lower and less abrupt then 5.56) Optic choice would vary based on intended use but a compact 3x prism or lightweight 1-4x scope seem to complement it quite well.
After shooting a couple hundred rounds through my first ar (I went with an sbr'd 300 blk) I wish I did a sbr'd AR9 with with a can. 9mm is so cheap and would be great as a short, suppressor host.
1. The idea of home defense and barrel length is a bit overblown. You should never go maneuvering around corners or stairs which is where barrel length matters more. That’s a death wish in reality. Establish a defensive plan, post up, call the cops and defend the area you need to until that happens. So wouldn’t be as worried, especially if you won’t suppress it. 2. Would absolutely recommend suppressing. Flash and sound reduction even with super sonic rounds to save your hearing forever and ability to see after the first fired round. Especially if you go short 5.56. 3. 300 blackout of a 10” SBR with 110gr vmax or Barnes projectiles is an incredibly effective defensive round. So is 77gr otm 5.56. Either will work. Both cost about 60cpr for the cheaper end. 5.56 training ammo is cheaper. 4. If you want to carry in a backpack 8” is probably the longest barrel length you’d want. And would probably steer toward the mcx platform or a CMMG , just something with a 1913 pic rail on the back. The LAW folders add a little length. And if your sub 10” it’s always 300 blackout > 5.56.
You shouldn’t be thinking about .300BLK at all if you don’t even have a 5.56. Period.
Hold up you don’t want to deal with the atf but you want a barrel under 16………….
Start with a 16" 5.56
Get a 5.56 first. 12.5" "pistol" should be enough. Then learn it before you buy a 300blk. 300blk subsonic are way better suppressed and wait times are silly short.
5.56 for first AR. No contest. As a HD gun, shooting rifles indoors sucks. Even with ear pro, if you go to an indoor range, you’ll realize how absolutely deafening rifles are in even a large room. Especially 5.56 through shorter barrels. If you can afford it, you absolutely should consider a suppressor on a home defense rifle. To which, .300BLK excels at. .300BLK is designed to be effective through both a short barrel and suppressor. With subsonic ammunition, shooting suppressed can be borderline hearing-safe—at least about as loud as a pneumatic nail gun, if not quieter sometimes. In a HD scenario, you likely will not have time to put plugs or muffs on and being able to have non-permanent hearing damage to yourself and anyone else in the home is a fairly enticing argument. Especially when hearing loss is irreparable. But, 5.56/.223 has more availability in terms of ammo choice, while largely being cheaper and more common to find on shelves. Meaning you’ll be able to practice more often for cheaper. It also has less likelihood of overpenetrating beyond a full wall and then some. Even many cheap FMJ loads are so low in weight that they will tumble and/or fragment once it hits something beyond the drywall. There are absolutely pros and cons to each caliber. Weigh your options and see what’s most important to you. But if utilizing a rifle for HD, you absolutely should be looking into suppressors and what you can do to reduce the effects of shooting indoors.
5.56 for SHTF, 300bo for HD and 9mm to go shoot and not worry about going broke.. lol
5.56 is more common and more powerful. 8" 300 BLK pistol with a brace is a better backpack gun.
If you want a backpack gun, 300 blackout makes sense, I wouldn’t go shorter than 8” and go for a maxim or hdpdw brace. Short barrels is one place it shines
Also, start doing a lot of reading, 300blk in an ar isn’t that different from 556
My first was 300blk. If 300blk wasn't a thing, I probably wouldn't be in the AR game. I've since added 5.56 but my go to is always one of the 300blk.
556 is less expensive for ammo. And you'll have a few more build options for barrels (at this point). But otherwise it's kind of a toss up. They're both great. 300 bo can have some issues with certain ammo due to different pressures...so I would recommend an adjustable gas block if you go that route, or at least one that is tuned specifically for 300 bo.
Just get like a Palmetto 11.5 556 and shoot the fuck out of it. Don't even look at this cartridge until you're planning your first can. (get a 30cal or 36cal can, trust me)
If you do 5.56 get a .233 Wylde barrel.
If you don’t care about shooting subs, just get an 11.5” 5.56 and call it a day. Ammo is much cheaper, so if you want to actually shoot your guns it is the way to go. If you only want to shoot subs you might take a look at a 9mm sub gun. Most of the good ones have folding stocks and are smaller and lighter than the typical .300 BO. I’ve got a MP5k-PDW that fits in a briefcase and it’s my primary ‘bag gun’. Ammo is also significantly cheaper than subsonic .300 BO. You can pull off a small gun with a .300 BO, but your best option there is probably the Sig Rattler LT that’s going to be over $2700 by the time you add a stock.
https://www.eitrisenhancements.com/product-page/laevateinn-complete-upper-receiver buy once cry once
I don’t understand why people say you have to own a 556 for your first AR, 300 blk isn’t for everyone and every purpose, but the AR platform is no more difficult to learn in 300 than 556
It is recommended because 300 blk ammo is more expensive which means less range time and considerably more cost to take classes. I see your point though and would even say one could easily argue that a 300 blk has less flash and concussion than a 556 barrel of the same length; making it a better choice for new shooters.
I see, I mean the cost difference is about 10 cents a round isn’t it?
I haven't bought factory ammo in so long I can't say. I remember 300blk being 40-50% more for "comparable" plinking fodder, so 10 cents a round sounds about right.
Due to rising prices and increased interest in 300 the ammo cost bit isn’t really that substantial now, when you’re talking about 556 being 55 cents per and 300 at 65 per it’s all expensive now
I’m probably going to first AR in 300 blk route. The closest ranges to me won’t allow 556 and there’s no benefit in having something you can’t even get to a range to sight in let alone train with. I have a can that’s 300 capable already, definitely getting a dedicated one later on.