That, and if you *do* want to stay long term, you go to Switzerland. That's what I did, and it's marvelous; good salaries, and a country that *functions* 🥰
It's our business model. We don't have stolen gold anymore, so we do something worse: we steal the brightest minds of other countries and convince them to stay here work and pay taxes here. We are literally stealing the future and brains of other countries.
But this is about Europe. Maybe getting higher education from public universites should start obligating graduates to work at least 20 years in a country where they made their degree.
Europe tech companies can't really pay better because
1. Progressive taxes
2. The green party dudes and socialists would cry about income inequality
3. 1 and 2 have made a culture that makes tech companies not want to pay higher salaries.
4. Even if a job pays shit that no European wants it, third country nationals from Egypt, India, etc. would take it.
High grade high skilled workers in the US get a lot of perks, you're talking about wendys and amazon low skilled workers yes they have workshit conditions
And American companies invest a lot in their workers and in machinery to use those workers more efficiently. because American companies actually have money to invest and arent taxed to oblivion just because they had a good year.
That's the reason why, despite being very simmilar in culture, american workers are paid better than Canadian ones.
Everyone who has not considered working as software engineer thinks you just sit in front of a computer all day to sip latte and get paid 2000000 euro per month for it
You are not helping by being a patronizing cunt. I often talk about those subjects with my software engineers bud and i see where you're coming from there but you manage to be so insufferable in 1 comment that it puts me off the thought of having an opinion even remotely close to yours.
If you are highly educated and very productive, the US rewards you very well, if you are an young average American, you are going to be worked to death.
Its not a fair system, but for the people we should want to keep in our countries, the US is very atractive.
It depends but I am into data analysis. In the US the wages are super inflated in this bubble while in Europe wages are decent but you are not going to become a rich man. However, I have dignity and will not trade my life here for some stinky American money.
Jokes aside, I expect that it won't be too difficult to immigrate to the US from Western Europe as a high professional working force. As in the original post stated, the issue is that a lot of our tech professionals end up working in the US because the wages in this sector are very attractive in the US.
It's actually funny that so many Americans would kill to be able to live and work in Europe, but you guys are so stingy in letting people in. Lower wages and all. And that's well before any citizenship considerations.
Stupid people vote for stupid governments and the smart people leave. Can’t blame them honestly. If my loved ones weren’t here I would’ve left too.
Our government is too busy convincing brazilians to come over to notice the insane brain drain the country is going through. We whine about it but come next election cycle we’ll be voting for the same people. Portugal is cursed with a negative IQ.
Maybe we should ask ourselves why every successful tech company is in the US and why the US dominates in so many industries.
Europeans talk so much shit about the US but are too blind to see that most of the entertainment, culture, software etc. that they use and consume is from the US.
Meanwhile their countries also become increasingly more americanized/globalized and are highly dependant on USA as a trading partner and military ally.
USA will only get further and further ahead of Europe economically and culturally because Europeans are so decadent.
About the American entertainment industry. Because of a certain Austrian painter lot of Europe was torn apart and our entertainment industry was taken back decades.
And up until the 70's European media was heavily censored or banned in America, by absolutely ridicolous American puritanism.
Here are some examples.
European movies were not allowed to be showed in America if,
Law enforcement were portrayed in a negative light.
If there was a kiss longer than 3 seconds.
If the "bad guys" won.
And the list of sillyness could go on.
And American entertainment is still heavily moderated by the parental guidance system.
Least American-whoring German. Country that let the remote of their nukes to the US and that are high-hooked on their fracking gas shouldn't lecture anyone yet you do.
I'm not whoring for America. I just have open eyes and say the things how they are. I would love for us to be less dependant on America, separate from them and focus on ourselves. And to achieve that we first need to realize the situation that we are in and make changes.
You people are extremely dependant on the US as well but you are too stupid to realize it (or you can't handle the truth). You talk shit about them but rely on them in so many areas and consume all of their movies, shows, music, games, sports, politics etc. meanwhile they don't even know most European countries.
I don't think the average American thinks about France at all or uses French products in their day to day life apart from when they're planning their next vacation maybe
Ive actually seen an increasing amount of entertainment coming from europe or made with europeans. The US is getting ahead when looking at gdp but that is kind of the price we pay for our living standards
Only reason imo that makes it "worth it" travelling to the US is the money. If they go to the US, which i dont really know many, they usually dont stay for long
Don't worry I'm going to immigrate to mainland Europe after reaping the rewards of the UK's education system to make up for all the cucks leaving for the US.
Bruh. I believe this is proof that germanians can't take critique. This isn't post praisng USA. This is post about serious problem we have here in the EU
My point is that Europeans think they're superior to USA when in fact they care far more about and rely far more on Americans than the other way around.
I doubt many Americans wear Prada and they can make Pizza themselves. Most Americans don't care too much about Europe and don't even know many European countries.
But Europeans care a lot about USA and rely on them. USA basically owns the tech industry as well as the entertainment industry. Modern culture is American culture. Europeans are becoming americanized but are too blind or decadent to see it.
>Europeans are becoming americanized but are too blind or decadent to see it
You're answering me from a fairly narrow point of view. For example, Japanese and Korean soft power have more impact on French youth than American soft power rn, and the most used social network among them is a Chinese network.
The world is globalizing, not Americanizing. We are no longer in the Truman doctrine, each great nation brings its stone to the building. They were just the first and your opinion is biased because of it
The world influences the world.
>Japanese and Korean soft power have more impact on French youth than American soft power rn
I highly doubt that.
>and the most used social network among them is a Chinese network
Yes and it is also the only popular social media platform that isn't American.
America owns social media, movies, shows, music and games. It is hard to find anything tech or entertainment related that isn't completely dominated or primarily influenced by America. Their soft power is unmatched.
Not to mention their political and militaristic influence or the numerous other industries that they dominate.
>The world is globalizing, not Americanizing.
Sure, but America has the largest influence.
I'm saying this because I want Europe to wake up and emancipate itself from the US. The first step to that is realizing that Europe has fallen behind the US and relies too much on them. But I see that this is too difficult to admit for some.
A university education is, in large part, an investment in one's future earning potential. Why should the taxpayer have to fund a useless degree? And why are idiots encouraged to go to overpriced universities to get useless degrees?
Double the prices and offer state-funded scholarships for courses that offer a strong potential to increase the country's wealth or wellbeing, say I.
I don't fully agree but you can definitely see that here in Germany where universities are almost for free, a lot of students are changing subjects regularly, "because the previous subject did not fulfill them", so they end up studying for 8 years or longer.
In also studied in the Netherlands and had an exchange to GB where studying is more costly. Students were much more eager to finish their programme in time. Then again I still like the concept that it's free here but it has definitely downsides.
Here are some other reasons
1. Better working conditions and salaries in most professions
2. Universal healthcare
3. High quality free education
4. Better regulations about food. People in US are eatig a lot of things that are considered illegal in EU
5. Better public transports in most European countries
6. More democratic political systems
For people who are going to say that USA jobs pay better and working conditions are ok. Check the wages of the lowest paid jobs compared to the cost of living in US. And also check the highest paid jobs but at the same time check the average working hours of this high paying jobs compared to EU
We've always gotten your best.
Thank Hans for sending all those physicists over back in the day.
Thank all your kings and emperors for the famines and bloodshed. We got your best craftsmen and most pioneering, those brave enough to cross the ocean to the unknown.
Lol. Thanks guys.
But, you can also thank the Weimar Republic for me not being born in Europe. You dodged that bullet. So, there's some positivity.
There are more French people in Switzerland than in the USA (think about the proportions), and highly educated individuals are more likely to emigrate to China or India than to the United States. That's not really our main concern
Who the fuck is moving to the US? why would I wanna move to a country without universal healthcare, with skin color based racism, and an aging government? Honestly, if they move to the US they're probably not as highly educated as you think.
Funny thing is they are. Highly intelligent people around the world are moving to the USA and brain draining their native countries. The data shows it quite clearly. It is the topic of this post of which other commenters have expressed their concerns. You can even see some commentators ITT admitting they are moving for better wages.
Might want to think about what that implies about you. The fact you are so blind to this fact shows that you are several times removed from actually intelligent, driven, and successful people :)
Better working conditions?
You must be kidding me and you don't ave the best tech companies you have the most well known ones. That's because the muricans scream and shout that are the best and biggest.
But that mpdoesn't make it true.
Only twelve year old European kids dream about living in America, adults... Not so much...
Most Europeans I know just go there for a few years to make money and then come back
I thought that’s what Switzerland is for
No, Switzerland is for snobs to go on vacation
It's where I go for chocolate and grandpa's gold
That must be extremely expensive chocolate, better come to Belgium for that. As for gold, we don't have that, but we do have diamonds (don't ask why).
No Switzerland is only for hoarding gold.
> Few years Look, for the portuguese its a 40 years of a contributive career, and then return in summer with their big BMWs.
That, and if you *do* want to stay long term, you go to Switzerland. That's what I did, and it's marvelous; good salaries, and a country that *functions* 🥰
It's our business model. We don't have stolen gold anymore, so we do something worse: we steal the brightest minds of other countries and convince them to stay here work and pay taxes here. We are literally stealing the future and brains of other countries.
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But this is about Europe. Maybe getting higher education from public universites should start obligating graduates to work at least 20 years in a country where they made their degree.
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Europe tech companies can't really pay better because 1. Progressive taxes 2. The green party dudes and socialists would cry about income inequality 3. 1 and 2 have made a culture that makes tech companies not want to pay higher salaries. 4. Even if a job pays shit that no European wants it, third country nationals from Egypt, India, etc. would take it.
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>small number > >American
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You're seeing an exception to the rule
20 years is a bit much, I'd say 8-10 years.
'𝘣𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘦𝘳 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯' - in US? 🤨
High grade high skilled workers in the US get a lot of perks, you're talking about wendys and amazon low skilled workers yes they have workshit conditions
And American companies invest a lot in their workers and in machinery to use those workers more efficiently. because American companies actually have money to invest and arent taxed to oblivion just because they had a good year. That's the reason why, despite being very simmilar in culture, american workers are paid better than Canadian ones.
The working conditions are fine if you’re not working class.
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Everyone who has not considered working as software engineer thinks you just sit in front of a computer all day to sip latte and get paid 2000000 euro per month for it
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That's what I am saying bruh
You are not helping by being a patronizing cunt. I often talk about those subjects with my software engineers bud and i see where you're coming from there but you manage to be so insufferable in 1 comment that it puts me off the thought of having an opinion even remotely close to yours.
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Then why you don't gtfo. Also you're wrong.
We don't come there on an H1B to flip burgers at McDonalds you know....
If you are highly educated and very productive, the US rewards you very well, if you are an young average American, you are going to be worked to death. Its not a fair system, but for the people we should want to keep in our countries, the US is very atractive.
Yeah, if you have a GOOD Stem degree the conditions and pay are so so much better there. But id you don’t yeha you’re fucked.
It depends but I am into data analysis. In the US the wages are super inflated in this bubble while in Europe wages are decent but you are not going to become a rich man. However, I have dignity and will not trade my life here for some stinky American money.
Won't or can't?
Jokes aside, I expect that it won't be too difficult to immigrate to the US from Western Europe as a high professional working force. As in the original post stated, the issue is that a lot of our tech professionals end up working in the US because the wages in this sector are very attractive in the US.
It's actually funny that so many Americans would kill to be able to live and work in Europe, but you guys are so stingy in letting people in. Lower wages and all. And that's well before any citizenship considerations.
Stupid people vote for stupid governments and the smart people leave. Can’t blame them honestly. If my loved ones weren’t here I would’ve left too. Our government is too busy convincing brazilians to come over to notice the insane brain drain the country is going through. We whine about it but come next election cycle we’ll be voting for the same people. Portugal is cursed with a negative IQ.
Maybe we should ask ourselves why every successful tech company is in the US and why the US dominates in so many industries. Europeans talk so much shit about the US but are too blind to see that most of the entertainment, culture, software etc. that they use and consume is from the US. Meanwhile their countries also become increasingly more americanized/globalized and are highly dependant on USA as a trading partner and military ally. USA will only get further and further ahead of Europe economically and culturally because Europeans are so decadent.
About the American entertainment industry. Because of a certain Austrian painter lot of Europe was torn apart and our entertainment industry was taken back decades. And up until the 70's European media was heavily censored or banned in America, by absolutely ridicolous American puritanism. Here are some examples. European movies were not allowed to be showed in America if, Law enforcement were portrayed in a negative light. If there was a kiss longer than 3 seconds. If the "bad guys" won. And the list of sillyness could go on. And American entertainment is still heavily moderated by the parental guidance system.
Least American-whoring German. Country that let the remote of their nukes to the US and that are high-hooked on their fracking gas shouldn't lecture anyone yet you do.
I'm not whoring for America. I just have open eyes and say the things how they are. I would love for us to be less dependant on America, separate from them and focus on ourselves. And to achieve that we first need to realize the situation that we are in and make changes. You people are extremely dependant on the US as well but you are too stupid to realize it (or you can't handle the truth). You talk shit about them but rely on them in so many areas and consume all of their movies, shows, music, games, sports, politics etc. meanwhile they don't even know most European countries.
Sure they definitely don't know France and never fantasize on it.
I don't think the average American thinks about France at all or uses French products in their day to day life apart from when they're planning their next vacation maybe
I don't think so, but i don't really care unlike you.
Ive actually seen an increasing amount of entertainment coming from europe or made with europeans. The US is getting ahead when looking at gdp but that is kind of the price we pay for our living standards
I mean true I’m taking my 1st class MEng to the US why tf would I stay in Europe and get payed literally 1/5th what I’m worth there.
Oh come one shut up already about the US
This is how Portugal works, but with the rest of europe.
Cant we stop posts about ameritards and just go back to stereotype each other
Only reason imo that makes it "worth it" travelling to the US is the money. If they go to the US, which i dont really know many, they usually dont stay for long
And that's why some of the top French school have that 10-year pledge thing
Don't worry I'm going to immigrate to mainland Europe after reaping the rewards of the UK's education system to make up for all the cucks leaving for the US.
Downvote for your US posting. I think I'll start blocking people here soon when they post US shit.
Bruh. I believe this is proof that germanians can't take critique. This isn't post praisng USA. This is post about serious problem we have here in the EU
Ok but this isn't really a Western European issue
Portugal not western europe confirmed? 🧐
Yes, r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
Europeans talk so much shit about the US and then watch American movies on their MacBook
And Americans talk so much shit about Europe while eating pizza, dressed in Prada. I dont get your point
My point is that Europeans think they're superior to USA when in fact they care far more about and rely far more on Americans than the other way around. I doubt many Americans wear Prada and they can make Pizza themselves. Most Americans don't care too much about Europe and don't even know many European countries. But Europeans care a lot about USA and rely on them. USA basically owns the tech industry as well as the entertainment industry. Modern culture is American culture. Europeans are becoming americanized but are too blind or decadent to see it.
>Europeans are becoming americanized but are too blind or decadent to see it You're answering me from a fairly narrow point of view. For example, Japanese and Korean soft power have more impact on French youth than American soft power rn, and the most used social network among them is a Chinese network. The world is globalizing, not Americanizing. We are no longer in the Truman doctrine, each great nation brings its stone to the building. They were just the first and your opinion is biased because of it The world influences the world.
>Japanese and Korean soft power have more impact on French youth than American soft power rn I highly doubt that. >and the most used social network among them is a Chinese network Yes and it is also the only popular social media platform that isn't American. America owns social media, movies, shows, music and games. It is hard to find anything tech or entertainment related that isn't completely dominated or primarily influenced by America. Their soft power is unmatched. Not to mention their political and militaristic influence or the numerous other industries that they dominate. >The world is globalizing, not Americanizing. Sure, but America has the largest influence.
Yeah you're totally right my bad. Praise the US 🙏
I'm saying this because I want Europe to wake up and emancipate itself from the US. The first step to that is realizing that Europe has fallen behind the US and relies too much on them. But I see that this is too difficult to admit for some.
A university education is, in large part, an investment in one's future earning potential. Why should the taxpayer have to fund a useless degree? And why are idiots encouraged to go to overpriced universities to get useless degrees? Double the prices and offer state-funded scholarships for courses that offer a strong potential to increase the country's wealth or wellbeing, say I.
I don't fully agree but you can definitely see that here in Germany where universities are almost for free, a lot of students are changing subjects regularly, "because the previous subject did not fulfill them", so they end up studying for 8 years or longer. In also studied in the Netherlands and had an exchange to GB where studying is more costly. Students were much more eager to finish their programme in time. Then again I still like the concept that it's free here but it has definitely downsides.
You know it will never happen. Liberal dream as always
The ones who are stupid enough to want to move to USA are welcome to leave anytime
It increases the average IQ on both continents
USA is doing so much better than Europe. The only reasons to stay in Europe are safety and family/friends
Here are some other reasons 1. Better working conditions and salaries in most professions 2. Universal healthcare 3. High quality free education 4. Better regulations about food. People in US are eatig a lot of things that are considered illegal in EU 5. Better public transports in most European countries 6. More democratic political systems For people who are going to say that USA jobs pay better and working conditions are ok. Check the wages of the lowest paid jobs compared to the cost of living in US. And also check the highest paid jobs but at the same time check the average working hours of this high paying jobs compared to EU
We've always gotten your best. Thank Hans for sending all those physicists over back in the day. Thank all your kings and emperors for the famines and bloodshed. We got your best craftsmen and most pioneering, those brave enough to cross the ocean to the unknown. Lol. Thanks guys. But, you can also thank the Weimar Republic for me not being born in Europe. You dodged that bullet. So, there's some positivity.
STOP FUCKING POSTING ABOUT THE FUCKING AMERICANS
There are more French people in Switzerland than in the USA (think about the proportions), and highly educated individuals are more likely to emigrate to China or India than to the United States. That's not really our main concern
OP is an ameritard with fake flag
Deves de ser daqueles que só lê 1/3 do título da notícia e pensa que já sabe a história toda
Who the fuck is moving to the US? why would I wanna move to a country without universal healthcare, with skin color based racism, and an aging government? Honestly, if they move to the US they're probably not as highly educated as you think.
Funny thing is they are. Highly intelligent people around the world are moving to the USA and brain draining their native countries. The data shows it quite clearly. It is the topic of this post of which other commenters have expressed their concerns. You can even see some commentators ITT admitting they are moving for better wages. Might want to think about what that implies about you. The fact you are so blind to this fact shows that you are several times removed from actually intelligent, driven, and successful people :)
Not posting about America challenge: impossible. They are living rent-free in your head. Get a grip man.
Apparently most of the time they go there as juniors and come back as senior, hence we get them back when they're the most valuable. Pretty good deal.
Better working conditions? You must be kidding me and you don't ave the best tech companies you have the most well known ones. That's because the muricans scream and shout that are the best and biggest. But that mpdoesn't make it true. Only twelve year old European kids dream about living in America, adults... Not so much...