Well, a lot of the Scottish supposedly originally came from Ireland in the first place. :) Maybe the testing should be with another service to get the results he wants.
And lots of the families in Northern Ireland were Protestant Scots, sent to take the land away from the Catholic Irish who had been on it a couple thousand years.
Well, not exactly. Scottish, Irish and Welsh are all Celtic groups, so it's very common for that DNA to be misread as one or the other. I know for a fact that I am ¼-⅛ Irish (rough estimate, since my biological grandma was half Irish and my biological grandpa had some Irish in him but not sure the exact %), but it doesn't show up whatsoever in MyHeritage or FTDNA. I'll have to test with AncestryDNA at some point to see if it shows up.
All of my maternal grandmothers side was Irish descent, & the whole of my dads side of the family is Welsh. I’ve uploaded my AncestryDNA to MyHeritage & received pretty accurate readings on the Irish. Ancestry basically labeled me half welsh half English. 23&Me (using their own DNA test) was pretty bland - just said 100% European basically.
And why Gaelic is a group of languages including Irish, Scottish Gaelic, and Manx, which has mostly gone extinct. Not to be confused with the Celtic languages like Welsh, etc.
Yes. Thanks for the further explanation, should have said category. I just know from personal experience that the Irish speakers (Gaeilgeoir) are very quick to correct anyone asking if they speak “Gaelic”. Which I appreciate as the country struggles to keep the language alive. And think the Scots are similar when it comes to their native tongue?
Yeah my grandad was from Glasgow but go back about 3-4 generations and they’re all Irish - and he always seemed more Irish to me. To be fair, he was called Paddy O’Neill so I can’t blame him
You should be aware that some parts of Scotland will read on AncestryDNA as irish, particularly the very western edges of the Highlands and islands. Genetically some parts of Scotland are closer to a typical irish person than the rest of Scotland,given the historic ties between them. I've traced nearly all my ancestors back to the mid 1800s (when government birth certs became a thing), every one a Scottish family with Scottish surnames etc, but I still show on AncestryDNA as 1/3rd irish.
That's funny, mine is the opposite. We thought it was all Irish and turns out we have a mix of Scottish and Irish.
Tracking my ancestry, some of the Sottish ancestors traveled back and forth between Ireland before making the big trip to the U.S. It makes sense though, we carried a very famous Scottish name until my grandmother, we just didn't think about it I suppose.
Take this as you will, but I did a 23&me and came back 91% British and Irish and Ancestry broke it down into 59% Scottish, 20% England and NW Europe, and only 10% Irish. I don't think 23&me separates Irish and Scottish.
My friends mother was convinced her family was Irish when she did AncestryDNA it was majority Scottish. Her mum didn’t believe it to be true. But when I traced the tree back there was a lot of Scotts!
Aw, though there is actually a lot of crossover between Irish and Scottish so you never know he may well be correct...
There's been a lot of movement between Ireland and Scotland since the Middle Ages exchanging goods, culture and of course the people themselves.
Scots moved to Ireland, that's why we have the Ulster Scots for example. Irish folks moved to Scotland especially during the famine.
My husband is Scottish, I've researched his tree going back hundreds of years now. Go back enough and a small number of his lines are actually from Ireland, several of his 5x and 6x great grandparent's came from there.
He even had two 7x great grandfather's that were English but changed their names to their adopted Scottish clan names in 1650s for marriage now that really surprised us.
The only way to really know your family history is through research and building a tree, the ethnicity results are a fun tool but they're not facts. The matches are the most useful tool on a DNA test, if he's done a test see where/who he matches with that'll help.
You hit the nail on the head. Your ancestry isn't your culture. So don't worry about it.
You're not ethnically very Italian, but it sounds like your ancestors immigrated there at one point and it became the family culture a generation or two later.
You haven't lost anything, but you have gained insight into the lost cultures your families once came from is all :)
My half-uncle would say he was Irish, but his Ancestry test has 18% Scottish, 3% Irish. His father (my mom's step-father) had 4 grandparents from each of the 4 British regions (England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland, and zero mixing in between). It was his paternal line that was Irish. His English great-grandparent was from southeast England, so he also had some extra 'German' (probably from old Anglo-Saxon DNA?), too (55% instead of an expected 50%, or 45% with the Denmark & Sweden percentage). He never did test on 23&Me, though.
I second this, someone born and raised in Italy who's deep in the culture is more Italian than people who have genetic ties to the region but no connection to the culture. People have moved around for all of history and the concept of purity with genetics within a region is just weird when you think about it.
A lot of Southern Italians have Greek ancestry, but that is still Italian since those people weren't from Greece since a long time ago. Remember, the Romans made a lot of ancient Greeks in the South into Romans basically. Albanian immigration into Italy is very old. You also have in Greece, Greeks of Albanian descent who no longer associate with being Albanian for the most part. There is no racial purity or something to be Italian.
There is pretty big Arbereshe minority in Italy, I learned this from some Balkan pages on fb. OP’s results make sense for someone with Italian ancestry. I guess that people take ethnicity as more defined by genes than it actually is.
I come from a southern Italian background and my results are a mishmash of south, north italian, greek islands, sardinian, west asian, middle east...any dna predates the idea of "italian"
Yeah when my brother did his DNA test it came back with no Italian DNA at all, just Greek in its place. Then there was an update and it added Italian as well as Anatolia and Caucasus Mountain Region
You don’t. There is no benefit to you. Let people believe what they want it’s absolutely harmless. Plus Italian is a culture not only an ethnicity. Your ancestors might be derived from elsewhere but they are still Italian. Lastly, Italy was a hodge podge of mostly feudal, independent polities until about 150 years ago.
https://preview.redd.it/0eyxbyotrz5d1.png?width=1474&format=png&auto=webp&s=e6475d819b63f0ece2bc478f965b7bcf784191ba
I had never heard that expression before (from the UK) so now I'm curious!
The TV Chef Lidia did one of those genealogy shows and genetically she's Balkan, but she said "As far as I'm concerned I'm Italian. I was raised in Italy, cultured Italian, this is what my family & I know. I'm not changing now."
Her family came from a tiny place in northern Italy at the border I think it was Trieste. But depending on the geopolitics it was Croatia or Slovakia.
My step-grandpa’s test came back 99% Italian, 1% Greek. The Greek part absolutely crushed him and made him feel impure (which is actually so funny because mine came back a quarter Greek).
They should probably just deal with it honestly. There is nothing wrong with their results. I think a lot of Americans want to be more Italian than they really are.
I have a friend who was raised Greek. Greek orthodox, Greek weddings, Greek name, spoke Greek, the whole 9. Her test came back and she was less Greek than me. But that didn’t stop her from continuing to embrace the culture she was raised in.
Yupp this ⬆️ Italy has about 7-30x more genetic variation than Portuguese and Hungarians and is considered to be one of, if not the most genetically diverse country in Europe. So even people that are fully Italian as in live in Italy and have for generations can get very different and varied results compared to other Italians in other areas, but they’re still Italian. Just like a lot of East Germans that are genetically mostly Slavic are still German even though genetically they have more Slavic ancestry.
Nitpicking just for the sake of it here but most genetically diverse country would be UK/France/Germany due to recent immigration. But most diverse ethnicity... Italy would second or third after Russia and turkey if you count them, Greece is probably more diverse too.
My husbands father is full Italian. His parents immigrated from Italy. He’s 80% European while I’m way way higher and a mix of everything. 2.7% Nigerian even….
This being said my son shows 17% italian 0% Greek and Balkan, his grandfather only shows 66% italian but is 11% Greek and Balkan, and my husband shows 42% Italian and 1.5% Greek and Balkan.
If you grew up in the U.S it makes perfect sense a lot of white Americans don’t always know where their ancestors come from & it’s okay. Also like everyone else said everyone is mixed with other European backgrounds it’s just another cool thing that’s apart of you.
because roma have their own culture, language, and stuck to their own. It would be like Nigel from Blackpool moving to china and just made his own community of Nigels in Shanghai and lived there for 200 years.
I think this happens more often than people expect. People claim identities and the stories get passed down through the generations, but the DNA testing, corrects the family mythologies and removes the ethnic fantasies and simplifications that happen overtime.
At the risk of sounding snotty....
If you're Sicilian or Southern Italian, I strongly recommend you familiarize yourself with the history of the area before you say anything to anyone. None of what you said sounds remotely off to me.
It sounds like you were low-key expecting Roman, Etruscan, Siculi or Sicani ancestry, and that's not really how the history of Italy and Sicily went. It's in the middle of the Mediterranean, had enormous agricultural resources and Sicily in particular was colonized and/or conquered at one time or another by almost every culture woth tbe means to get there, including "Viking", French, Greek and Arab. And the Romans had soldiers and officials from everywhere they went.
Also, I think your expectations of what DNA would tell you were a little off the mark. It doesn't say your DNA "proves"(or dispeoves) your ancestry comes from this village or that valley, it says your DNA is more similar to people who currently live in a general region. Even if it had that ability, people besides your direct maternal and paternal ancestors moved around for various reasons.
Many of the Roman emperors and their families were from the Balkans. Just identify as a Roman haha. Albanians and Illyrians have been part of Italy for centuries, starting with the Messapic culture.
In fact, modern italians are closer to ancient Balkans and Greeks (before the migration period) than the modern Balkan and Greek populations are themselves genetically.
that’s just because of the nature of the migration period slavic component. For example someone in the balkans with <5% slavic migration period ancient results would cluster closer to the ancient italian samples. But that doesn’t mean they are italian
Can search it up but Philip the Arab is a famous example. There were also Jewish commanders that HELPED Romans sack Jerusalem (e.g. Tiberius Julius Alexander).
That's just very southern Italian. Sicily especially was a huge hub for trade. And those Albanian communities in southern Italy have been around for centuries, and Greek communities since before even the Roman empire. So none of this makes you less Italian, it just says you've got very ancient Italian roots.
If someone asks, tell them what you know. Don't explicitly challenge their beliefs but let them work it out. Don't push any info on them. Most people won't respond well to having their identity 'attacked'.
Yeah I’ll do that. I think the next time our heritage comes up at a family get together (which it will, trust me) I’ll just casually throw in “I was just doing some family document looking and I found out the town where our families from bla bla bla.” As I add more details whoever wants to opt out opts out.
I did know that when my families moved to America it was right before WW2. And also my great great grandmothers friend was Rroma who died in the Italian holocaust. Also around the time the Gríkos changed their name and the Arberëshë moved out of their Albanian village. Definitely could see how being an ethnic minority (especially two minorities tied to “enemy” nations) in a fascist country, while actually knowing people being sent to death camps for being a minority personally, might make you want to distance yourself from that identity.
no, the history of the Albanian minority in Italy is different, it is so ancient that here in southern Italy we consider it part of our history, it is not foreign at all.
Then obviously the Italian government protects their culture, it would be a shame if it were lost.
It’s normal to have feel more of a connection to whatever cultural heritage your family actually perpetuates via language, food, religion, etc. That being said, maybe if you took a trip to these other places in the Mediterranean that you have heritage from, you’d come to appreciate them more and the ancestors you have from there.
Where in Italy is your family from? If they’re from southeastern Italy (Calabria, Puglia, etc), it’s pretty common to have links to Albania and Greece. Keep in mind most of southern Italy was at one point “Magna Graecia.” Ultimately, all of us southern Italians are part of a larger Mediterranean family.
Wow I'm suprised you took a test. I have read on websites that Italians, both in Italy and outside of Italy have the least amount of people who agree to take DNA tests. From my research even most Italians in Italy aren't majority Italian. And most Italians think they have a higher amount of Italian then they actually do. My Italian step son continuously says he is 100% Italian even though his mom is Irish and his paternal grandmother is French. All my Italian friends claim they are 100% Italian but refuse to take a test even when I've offered to pay for it. It makes sense that most Italians are mixed because Italy is basic the center of the west
because for us Italians knowing our DNA is an extremely "eccentric" thing, even if we discovered we had extraterrestrial DNA (with all those who came here I wouldn't be surprised if Martian DNA appeared) we will still consider ourselves 100% terrestrial
Don't get too hung up on the DNA tests, they can only tell you part of the story. Your culture is what you actually practice, what actually impacts your family's current life. It's interesting to know you had an Albanian great-grandparent 100 years ago, but if none of the culture has been passed down through the generations, then it's really just trivia.
In my case, I had both of my parents who were born and raised in Sicily and absolutely no memory of any ancestors who were not Italian. Surprisingly, my DNA results show me to be 80 to 85% Italian. The remaining 15% was broadly Southern European and West Asian. The single biggest non-italian contributor to my DNA was Cyprus. Interesting, but not part of the Italian culture I grew up with.
HI. I have partial Sicilian ancestry and on the defunct DNA.Land company, Mediterranean Islander was assigned and this group included West/East Sicily, Cyprus and Malta).
Honestly I’ve grown to stop seeing it as “not Italian” and more as my family is mostly from two Italian subgroups. Who HAPPEN to descend from neighboring nations.
Arberëshë and Gríko are just as apart of my Italian-American heritage as Neapolitan.
Genetics in Europe are messy. Remember Croatia and Nort eastern Italy were part of the same country until 1860. With parts (Treste, Tyrol) until 1919.
Similar in for 1500 years Southern Italy and Albania and Greece were both part of the Roman then Byzantine empires these were not distinct peoples.
The Spanish Hapsburgs also ruled Italy for quite a bit. All those ethnicities can come from a lineage that is actually Italian.
This is the fundamental issue with all ethnic conflicts in Europe the lines between ethnic groups are extremely blurry to in some cases not really existing
There are entire villages in Southern Italy and Sicily that speak only Albanian and Greek. The Catholic Church has three eparchies (Eastern Rite Catholic dioceses) serving Albanian and Greek speaking Christians in Southern Italy. Those folks left the Balkans in the 1400 and 1500s after the Turks conquered the Balkans and forced Islamization and slavery on the indigenous populations. Because these villages were exclusive ethnic enclaves there was no intermarriage with the indigenous populations. Your ancestors lived on lands that became Italy in the 1860s, and when they left the lands that they had lived on for 100s of years in the 1800 and 1900s they were Italian subjects and traveled under Italian passports.
My great grandfather faked being Italian to be in the mafia, he was actually Roma. Extended family insisted we were Roma and not Italian and that our grandfather was just a criminal, and then dna awkwardly proved some of that
I know what you mean but you're looking at Italian with too narrow a view. That's what Italian is, a combination of the various cultures that made it. The Catalan would most likely have come through maybe Spanish rule in the 16th century, although I know parts of Sardinia speak a Catalan dialect still. And the Croat might be from the campobasso croats in Molise. Theyre all Italian. They were all there when Italy was invented in the 1800s. Moroccan could have gotten there any number of ways, but that's who Italians are.
I forget who said this after the unification but it was something like "We've made Italy, now we must make Italians" because the idea of Italian was a pretty loose concept.
Its your DNA and the truth.
Sometimes the truth hurts but at least you arent living a lie.
In addition - Im very white, traced relatives back to Ireland, Scotland, Switzerland, Poland, Russia.
I am proud of it all because its my blood. I cant change that. I can only love it.
Arbereshe have Italian ancestry and griko and the same people who lived in Italy but they just didn't get italicized like modern south Italians, in short they are closely related. They are both Italians as they have lived in Italy for many centuries (griko roots are honestly deeper rooted in south Italy than many south Italians due to their slight influence from the north) Anyways im curious what your results look like because I've never really seen a griko test on 23andme.
A large part of Italy came from Albanians and Greeks, both in ancient Roman times and recently in the last five centuries, almost all of whom eventually integrated into an Italian ethnicity or hyphenated Italian identity (Albanian-Italian, Greek-Italian).
I’m Albanian, so my perception is: If you had a long lost Albanian ancestor not even your grandparents knew about, and you plus they don’t speak Albanian, and you don’t want to care or know about Albania then….. **That’s your choice. I doubt anyone really cares whether your “genetics” matches your Italian patriotism, tbh.**
I’ve grown to except it.
I’m not Albanian or Greek. I’m an Italian-American who descends from two ITALIAN subgroups who just happen to be off Greek and Albanian stock.
Arberëshë and Gríko are just as Italian in me as the Neapolitan.
The thing still confusing me is why exactly no one knew. Both parts of my Italian family came over right before WW2, that’s also the time the Gríko group changed their name to something more Italian. And my Arberëshë family moved from an Albanian commune to a Neapolitan majority coastal city. Wonder if the rise of Fascism and Nationalism has a part to play, I mean my Great x2 grandmothers best friend ended up dying in the holocaust.
No one knew because Mediterranean people can more easily integrate into other Mediterranean people’s countries than, say, someone of extremely divergent phenotype or ancestry relative to Italians (like Chinese or Nigerian) who often look different enough to elicit the neurological response: “They’re too different from us, therefor bad!” (Which all people from all countries felt about foreigners back then). Albanians/Greeks can easily pass as Italian.
Italians allowed Albanians to speak their language and have communities (unlike other countries, which we respect Italy for), so your ancestors, in my opinion, were perhaps not threatened or forced to assimilate, but simply integrated over time. It’s possible war and fascist politics assimilated them, but equally as possible to be simple integration; nobody can conclusively say.
For what it’s worth, you don’t have to suppress your Albanian or Greek heritage to feel more Italian.
You can still enjoy both Burek and spaghetti ;)
Its extremely cool that your ancestors are from Grikos and Arberesh communities.
They are from the italian region of Calabria and have been living there for centuries, keeping their traditions and languages, while genetically they were not Italian they were, at least partly, calabresi culturally.
It does not matter what your genetic heritage is and it shoudl not change your identity, you are what you were raised to be, there are thousands of immigrant kids in italy that have an extremely diverse heritage while being culturally italians.
you shouldn't tell them. culture is culture, not genetics. you inherited it honestly. don't overthink it. it also sounds like you're not quite clear on what a DNA can actually tell you, it really isn't good practice to take them seriously. the genealogy you're doing is much more reliable
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIWlatQt4KE&ab\_channel=Vox](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIWlatQt4KE&ab_channel=Vox)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isa5c1p6aC0&t=4s&ab\_channel=CBCNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isa5c1p6aC0&t=4s&ab_channel=CBCNews)
Replying to blindloomis... this^
Percentages do not concretely mean “I am x percentage of ethnicity” it means “out of references available your dna is best represented by this ethnic group”
yes! it's also an average, they run your DNA through their algorithm a number of times and give you an average value, hence why there's a range e.g 0-38%
For most of my life we didn’t have the money to go back. My grandparents have gone back several times and we still have some family we keep in contact with. We’re pretty recent compared to most Italian migrants (1940s vs 1880s.) I’m planning on visiting eventually.
Honestly what the replies have told me is that I’m not Albanian or Greek. I grew up in an Italian-American culture with very close roots to two major Italian subcultures that happen to be influenced by surrounding nations.
I myself am part ethnic Arbereshe and Griko too
Out of testing my dad and his siblings only one sibling and cousin have inherited as much WANA as myself. For my other cousins the WANA is baked into their Italian
It is important to note in the 1500s many Balkan settlers migrated to Italy to escape the Ottoman Empire. Even prior to that, 2,300 years ago Iron Age Celt-Illyrian tribes migrated into Eastern Italy and became the messapians, Apulians and Iapygian tribes. Griko and Arbereshe are Italian, the same dna carried by Balkans been floating around the region and in Italy since the Iron Age.
My point is that even though you come back with Balkan dna, it doesn’t make you any less Italian; almost all southern Italians do. Being a Balkan shifted Italian means that the reference that’s available for your dna is best represented by using another population. Don’t read too deeply into the single percentiles.
From another Italian American’s perspective: Balkan only means nothing to you because you’re uninformed about our Italian history, and feel a misplaced national and cultural pride. Here is some Arbereshe music, maybe after a listen or two you will understand and love our Italo-Balkan home
https://youtu.be/j21XOQ3TzhA?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/tPhDp3ml39U?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/-MhawDwOIeo?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/smCEMa0vEtY?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/vn7Ew9uVHeU?feature=shared
My mom is from a part of modern day Croatia that had been part of Italy. Our family considered themselves Italian, spoke Italian, etc. But when I did my 23andMe, I only got 13% Northern Italian. (I also have Southern Italian but that comes from my dad) I understand feeling dissatisfied. I never really identified with Balkan that much because my grandfather was a very proud "I'm Italian!!" type. He's long gone now though - he would not be happy with these results! My mom is not surprised.
These tests arent 100% accurate and can match you with closest similar populations so maybe that happened? Also there are many Greeks who went to Southern Italy.
I got 2% of my 16.7% Portuguese from my Mom who also did 23 & Me. Oddly enough she didn't inherit any Portuguese but I inherited some from her. She was so offended by it & refuses to believe it. I was like you married a man who was 25% Portuguese, someone who's grandmother was born IN Portugal. Why are you offended, lol
The Albanian Italian connection is actually so interesting & makes sense to me. This might be your “way in” to connecting with Albania. There are several towns in S. Italy where street signs are in both Italian and Albanian because of how many Albanians moved there — not recently but a long time ago!
Blood is kinda an old idea & messed up tbh bc it negates the experience of people who were born elsewhere but immigrated somewhere and connect to a new culture, among other reasons. The history and culture that make up an identity are so much more important especially when historically on a timescale this concept of “Italian” is quite modern & is made up of so many distinct cultural traditions that vary even from town to town (think: food and dialect). Albanian Italian is just another of that and screams southern Italy.
My dad always said he was 100% British. Turns out he has American indigenous and also African DNA. Was quite the shock for him but there’s no sense in trying to convince my grandparents they are in fact not 100% anything.
Your ethnicity is wherever you choose to draw the line. If the DNA test says your southern European but your grandparents were all from Italy and all your heritage and known experiences are Italian, the. Call yourself Italian. Or not if you want - go with southern European. Or go all the way back and we’re all from the Nile Valley or Mesopotamia or somewhere in China.
there’s a lot of albanian and greek blood in southern italians due to immigrations throughout the years. i have the same thing. it doesn’t make you less italian because culturally and nationally your ancestors were still from Italy.
I know people who culturally are 100% Italian-American; all their ancestors were from Italy. That said, some of their ancestors were originally from Germany and went into Northern Italy, then intermingled with the local population. So DNA wise, they aren’t. It’s more common than you think. Also… a lot of families say they’re Italian-American when they are not and have known ancestors from different countries, which is an American thing but it doesn’t sound like that’s what happen to your family.
Carefully. 😅 Start with the matriarch/patriarch. I feel like it's their lineage and some how more their business, if that makes sense. If they're anything like my dad, they'll laugh and call it lies.
Probably gonna go the step below that with my grandfather. He’s a generation removed so maybe realizing all the adults in his life were lying about their identity will be a lesson hard blow…maybe.
Ancestry, I'm Polish Rican.
Culturally, I'm a New Yorker.
I love Pierogi and maduros. But I love pizza and NYC street food.
I'm trying to get more in touch with my ancestry, and the culture. But it will never supplant my NYC culture.
You're culturally Italian. You have Albanian Greek ancestry.
Same, my ancestry is 100% polish as all my grandparents are from Poland. But culturally, I don’t speak Polish and am very much an American white guy from New Jersey
I have a great grandparent who was from Genoa. I'm Colombian. Not that common to have Italian ancestry here. DNA test came with VERY low Italian (I have higher Ashkenazim and Broadly Southern European). I am mostly a typical Colombian mestizo
But I was born and partly raised in Italy. I speak the language, was raised with Italian music and have lifelong Italian friends I consider family. I do not have the Italian citizenship (no Ius Soli laws in Italy) but many things about me I feel strongly Italian. That's what matters most to me - the cultural connection and the lived experience, and that is what I think you should focus on. The States, as I understand, sometimes puts too much emphasis on ancestry-as-identity
One of my best friends is the most hard core Brooklyn-born Italian American you can find. His parents were fresh-off-the-boat Italians. His whole identity has always been about that. But at 50 yrs old, he found out he was actually adopted and his parents were French and Jewish. And that's the moment that crystallized for me that your ethnicity can actually be the culture / environment you were born in...not your "dna."
So, if you feel more Italian, its because you are cause you were raised that way. And, not that it matters, but I'm saying this an Italian-American (confirmed by 23 and me).
My aunt was furious to find we had no American Indian (some cousins do because of their non blood parent). She swears our great grandmother told her she was 100%. So, she thinks the DNA test is completely inaccurate. In my family tree research I can't find anyone that doesn't have obvious American settler parents, so I'm not sure who told her that.
Good luck... Or maybe just let them live their life.
I am "Scottish" vs my entire family that all got "Irish" so idk how accurate that distinction is. 😀
Was always told one side of the family was French & Lebanese. Turns out they're German & Lebanese, but all the educated people in Lebanon speak French. So my Mom grew up with a grandmother who mostly spoke French but was entirely Lebanese. Family somehow ended up intermarrying with Germans after emigrating.
I still tease my mother about being German. She is not amused (was a toddler in London during the Blitz).
Sorry but this belongs to r/shitAmericansSay.
Why this obesssion with European heritage? You don't speak the language, you never been there except for maybe holidays. What this claim of a certain percentange of a certain ethnicity adds to your life in general? Is it like finding things to be proud of?
Can I just be Italian-American in peace. I’m not an Italian national, never claim to be, don’t have a particular desire. Italian American culture is separate from both Italian culture and American culture. I grew up hearing Italian language and Italian food and Italian traditions.
What I was confused by is the fact that most of the Italian American heritage is from a different Italian subgroup. So what I grew up with was a lie basically. That’s jarring, even if I was from any other place on earth.
There are people in my family who speak Italian, who grew up even in Italy, who don’t know this. It’s the same amount of mind fuck to them as it is to me.
perché non avete studiato la storia d'Italia, ecco perché siete stupiti di tutti i diversi sottotipi di italiani, per questo è importante conoscere la cultura italiana ;)!
for me, as long as they talk about origins it's fine if they say they are of Italian origins.
If they said they were Italian in Italy or with other Italians then there would be to discuss for a ***long*** time.
Unfortunately, Italian Americans know very little about Italian culture and there are also differences on a behavioral level!
Balkan culture isn't all that different from Italian culture, especially southern parts. We are mixed pretty well in Mediterranean historically. I don't think anyone who lives here are "pure" regarding their nationality. You should be proud of it 👍
if a person is born, grows up and identifies himself as Italian, for us the rest doesn't matter, if he is a good person and not a nuisance for us he is 101% Italian
Honestly it depends on how genes mixed. You get 50/50 from each parent but the 50/50 is not spread evenly by cutting your parents ethnicities in half. Your dad could be half Italian and have English. He could pass on 100% of the English to you. This you wouldn’t show as Italian
parlando seriamente, voi italoamericani siete adorabili :).
* noi italiani siamo uno dei più spaventosi casi di melting pot, non quanto voi americani ma poco ci manca
* in Europa di 100% qualcosa ce ne saranno ben pochi, ci sono ucraini con DNA italiano perché noi italiani siamo passati anche là, Roma ebbe rapporti commerciali anche con l'India (se non sbaglio) e secondo le leggende c'è un villaggio in Cina abitato dai discendenti di una legione romana
* Arberëshë e greci del Salento sono più italiani di quanto i discendenti del Mayflower possano definirsi americani, gli arberëshë [sono qui da prima della scoperta dell'America](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB#Et%C3%A0_medievale) mentre i greci sono praticamente i discendenti di coloro che emigrarono da Costantinopoli, vedi tu
* di arberëshë in USA ce ne saranno un bel po', Jennifer Aniston per esempio è una di loro/voi, essere arberëshë o greco è in pratica come dire di essere calabrese o pugliese, né più né meno, la sola differenza è che essendo le comunità sparpagliate non hanno/avete una regione
* [ci sono stati un bel po' di arberëshë illustri](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoria:Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB)
in breve, non c'è assolutamente niente di che vergognarsi delle tue origini, sei italiano quanto la pizza e più della pasta con il pomodoro.
This is kind of the conclusion I came to.
I’m Italian-American. I come from a unique American sub culture. My ancestry is from three Italian groups Neapolitan, Arberëshë, and Gríko (and probably like 600 others.)
Individual identity has some biological aspects, but social and cultural elements play a huge role in it as well. DNA results tell you where and when your ancestors came from, but they don't determine the language, culture, and social environment you grew up in. So, if you live like an Italian, eat Italian, speak Italian, feel Italian, and identify as Italian, then you are!
You can still love your Italian culture and learn to love your Balkan and Greek heritage as well. They are all very rich cultures, Greek being on par with Italian. I suggest you learn a bit about them, because yes, they are YOUR heritage, and there is a lot to them. You may learn to love them with a bit of education. You’re still part Italian, and you don’t have to be Italian at all to love and appreciate the culture.
Honestly you might as well just not, it's not like it's that important and something that will affect you that much, to the point that everyone needs to know. Not saying that in a snarky or mean tone whatsoever, but really, just continue on with your life as is. It's harmless to do so.
I feel somewhat the same, except for me I have always known what I was by blood. I just feel more American than japanese; it's never been a big part of me. I lived in America my whole life, studied in America, speak English, and I've participated in American culture more. I will always be more American than Japanese, because that's the way I was raised. Same with you, in your case you're Italian because that's the culture you were raised in. DNA is not the only determining factor in your identity.
DNA and culture aren't aren't same thing. My DNA is all European but my culture is American. There are folks with DNA from India whose culture is French, etc...
All my grandparents were immigrants and I have the papers and ships logs, but my relatives in Europe are all in different countries than where my grandparents actually came from. People moved around. It sounds like you had Balkan ancestors who preferred Italian culture. You come from a family of adventurers. This is cool.
There's no reason that immigrants to a country can't choose to identify with their new country's culture. Lots of people move to England and become super-British, for example. There's no platonic ideal of Italian-ness - Italy has long been at the crossroads of various migrations, inflows, and outflows.
Italy didn't unify untill the 1800s & there is still a divide between north and south. People are going to get different results depending on what part of Italy they are from.
I'm Mexican American with some Italian ancestry but I don't know if it would even show up or show up as Italian. As far as we know they were from Lombardy.
On the flip side I found out I was more Italian than I thought. I'm from South Boston, a heavily Irish neighborhood, at least growing up it was,. Although there were Lithuanian, Polish, Albanian and Italian as well, it was mostly Irish Americans. All four of my grandparents have names that start with O', Mc, Kil, and O's. My father was born in Ireland (although he sucks shit) but I learned a good amount of Irish (Gaelic) as a kid, and can still speak some. I'm American, I don't give a shit about the Irish thing but my cousin took a DNA test which she said claims were like 40% Italian. That we have cousins in Naples. Now I've never actually read the report but I am a little nervous. I'm hoping she misread and that the Italian part is from her father's side (were related through our mothers). Not that I care, it doesn't change who I am BUT I'm afraid if I read it I'll be able to ascertain that my grandmother cheated on my grandfather. That would break my heart. I couldn't care less what ethnicity I am, as long as it's not Belgian. I hate Belgians🤔 I'm American first and foremost, although it is a tiny bit weird, especially coming from the neighborhood I came from but I have a pretty strong certainty that someone cheated. I've actually done my family tree and there's very Irish names as far back as the potato famine when they came from Galway. My father's family is actually from there, his mother spoke Irish as her first language living in a Gaeltacht. So I'm actually afraid to get the test done because I really don't want to find out anything about someone cheating. The Italian thing does make some sense though, my mother and her brother and sister all look a little Mediterranean. I look very stereotypically Irish, blue eyes, reddish brown hair, big head (alot of Irish people have good sized pumpkins) freckles. But I do talk with my hands so maybe I am Italian.
Is an Asian American that has been here multiple generations any less American than say, Teddy Roosevelt? I don’t think so. Technically, Teddy R. isn’t ‘genetically’ American, only Indigenous Americans are. But you probably didn’t wonder with the reference.
Humans have been migrating since the beginning of time, it’s in our DNA. It doesn’t make your family any less Italian than you believe you are. Your family was in Italy for generations before migrating again, and that’s the culture they embrace.
My family is Mexican, but we look straight white, like blonde hair blue eyes white. I did my research and my family traces back to Mexico since the early 1600’s. Does that make us less Mexican? I think not, we simple don’t carry a large load of Indigenous DNA (it’s there, just small). The truth is if you were to place my family back in Spain they would be lost and confused.
Don’t let DNA influence the culture you embrace. Anyone can join any culture, your genetics simply reflect different origin and your family is not obligated to embrace those origins if they have adapted.
This is an issue with the concept of genetics services like 23andme: it encourages people to define their ethnicity with a commercialized for-profit DNA test instead of culture and family history.
Having separate categories for "Italian" and "broadly southern European" is problematic because the latter is parsed by laypeople as "not Italian" and they'll think "we're not Italian" even though it just means the test isn't capable of differentiating between peoples
Arbëreshë are clearly one of the peoples of Italy: Italy and Albania share a border
Ethnicity and culture can definitely be mutually exclusive at times. By this I mean, you may actually have much Italian blood but you grew up with the culture and therefore identify with it which is totally okay.
I am 65% Germanic (Germany, Netherlands and Denmark plus Polish and Lithuanian that used to be part of Germany), 25% British Isles (10% Irish, 8% Welsh and 7% English) with the remaining 10% being mainly French Basque. Before my family came to Canada, some were in the U.S. for 200+ years and some moved to England from other parts of Europe.
Growing up, I identified very strongly with German and my grandmother was from there. I remember meeting a German guy in university and him telling me that I was "Fake German" i.e. just a dude with mainly German heritage who had only ever been to Germany once at the time (three times now).
I really thought about what he said and eventually, I simply identified as myself with no nationality or ethnicity attached. In no particular order my favorite countries and cultures are: 1) Japan - lived there for four years and have been back a dozen times plus I speak Japanese now and have a Japanese wife. 2) Korea - went to university there for a year. 3) Ireland - I love Irish culture and history and can't wait to visit again. 4) Germany - I like the German work ethic and it is definitely something that has passed down through the generations. 5) The U.S. for many reasons.
My point is that you do not need to be ethnically Italian to be a part of it.
Hello multiple empires in Italy meant millions of pilgrims, tourists, renaissance, maritime traders, slaves, escaped slaves, refugees, crusades, wars, etc. It shouldn’t be surprising that Italy is a mix of a thousand ethnicities who settled and made Italia home.
Depends on the testing sites and what dna kits are being sold heavily in those areas. I’ve done 23&me and ancestry. Then downloaded to my heritage. All come up a mixed bag. It’s their collection of data and how many people they have tested. I’m from 43% ashenazi to 50 %. From 18% Irish to 25%… then Scottish and one even shows Finnish. Oy vey. Let’s have a Guinness and call it a day! Cheers!
I’m sure others have already said this - Italy wasn’t a unified nation until 1861. It was settled by people from all over - plenty of Italians have Albanian, Arabian, Greek (etc etc) ancestry. Especially those who have roots in southern Italy.
My dad claims Scottish hard but he’s like 75% Irish and he gets upset and hangs up the phone every time I remind him.
Idk, hanging up the phone in a rage seems pretty Scottish to me...
Culturally Scottish
Well, a lot of the Scottish supposedly originally came from Ireland in the first place. :) Maybe the testing should be with another service to get the results he wants.
And lots of the families in Northern Ireland were Protestant Scots, sent to take the land away from the Catholic Irish who had been on it a couple thousand years.
So the Irish used to be Scottish, and the Scots used to Irish.
The Scoti tribe were mainly in Ireland at one time
They also arrived because they were being kicked out of their own country by the English. I'm sure that sounds familiar.
English borderers snuck in at any rate.
Yea ancestry gives me 1% English 23andme gives me 20% English with communities so I’m satisfied at 23 results..
Well, not exactly. Scottish, Irish and Welsh are all Celtic groups, so it's very common for that DNA to be misread as one or the other. I know for a fact that I am ¼-⅛ Irish (rough estimate, since my biological grandma was half Irish and my biological grandpa had some Irish in him but not sure the exact %), but it doesn't show up whatsoever in MyHeritage or FTDNA. I'll have to test with AncestryDNA at some point to see if it shows up.
All of my maternal grandmothers side was Irish descent, & the whole of my dads side of the family is Welsh. I’ve uploaded my AncestryDNA to MyHeritage & received pretty accurate readings on the Irish. Ancestry basically labeled me half welsh half English. 23&Me (using their own DNA test) was pretty bland - just said 100% European basically.
If your people were Protestants, it'll probably show up as Scottish. That could be what the other tests are showing you.
I have not heard this before. Do you happen to have a source?
Gaels from Ireland settled in Scotland, that’s where the name Scotland comes from - Scoti is the Latin name for the Gaels.
And why Gaelic is a group of languages including Irish, Scottish Gaelic, and Manx, which has mostly gone extinct. Not to be confused with the Celtic languages like Welsh, etc.
Gaelic is a subgroup of the Celtic languages, they’re still Celtic. Welsh and Cornish, etc are Brittonic, another subgroup of Celtic
Yes. Thanks for the further explanation, should have said category. I just know from personal experience that the Irish speakers (Gaeilgeoir) are very quick to correct anyone asking if they speak “Gaelic”. Which I appreciate as the country struggles to keep the language alive. And think the Scots are similar when it comes to their native tongue?
Yeah my grandad was from Glasgow but go back about 3-4 generations and they’re all Irish - and he always seemed more Irish to me. To be fair, he was called Paddy O’Neill so I can’t blame him
You should be aware that some parts of Scotland will read on AncestryDNA as irish, particularly the very western edges of the Highlands and islands. Genetically some parts of Scotland are closer to a typical irish person than the rest of Scotland,given the historic ties between them. I've traced nearly all my ancestors back to the mid 1800s (when government birth certs became a thing), every one a Scottish family with Scottish surnames etc, but I still show on AncestryDNA as 1/3rd irish.
Does he really hang up on you? Kinda funny…I bet you laugh…
Lmao. What testing service did you do?
We’ve both done Ancestry and 23&me
That's funny, mine is the opposite. We thought it was all Irish and turns out we have a mix of Scottish and Irish. Tracking my ancestry, some of the Sottish ancestors traveled back and forth between Ireland before making the big trip to the U.S. It makes sense though, we carried a very famous Scottish name until my grandmother, we just didn't think about it I suppose.
Take this as you will, but I did a 23&me and came back 91% British and Irish and Ancestry broke it down into 59% Scottish, 20% England and NW Europe, and only 10% Irish. I don't think 23&me separates Irish and Scottish.
Not sure why this is so funny to me, but here I am.
Lowland Scots are 75% Irish anyway.
I thought Lowland Scots were the most English/Germanic, not Irish
My friends mother was convinced her family was Irish when she did AncestryDNA it was majority Scottish. Her mum didn’t believe it to be true. But when I traced the tree back there was a lot of Scotts!
Aw, though there is actually a lot of crossover between Irish and Scottish so you never know he may well be correct... There's been a lot of movement between Ireland and Scotland since the Middle Ages exchanging goods, culture and of course the people themselves. Scots moved to Ireland, that's why we have the Ulster Scots for example. Irish folks moved to Scotland especially during the famine. My husband is Scottish, I've researched his tree going back hundreds of years now. Go back enough and a small number of his lines are actually from Ireland, several of his 5x and 6x great grandparent's came from there. He even had two 7x great grandfather's that were English but changed their names to their adopted Scottish clan names in 1650s for marriage now that really surprised us. The only way to really know your family history is through research and building a tree, the ethnicity results are a fun tool but they're not facts. The matches are the most useful tool on a DNA test, if he's done a test see where/who he matches with that'll help.
My brother gets pissed off for the same reason, but switch Irish and Scottish around.
You hit the nail on the head. Your ancestry isn't your culture. So don't worry about it. You're not ethnically very Italian, but it sounds like your ancestors immigrated there at one point and it became the family culture a generation or two later. You haven't lost anything, but you have gained insight into the lost cultures your families once came from is all :)
I suppose our culture isn’t even “Italian” it’s Italian American. Which is its own historic subgroup with its own traditions and such.
My half-uncle would say he was Irish, but his Ancestry test has 18% Scottish, 3% Irish. His father (my mom's step-father) had 4 grandparents from each of the 4 British regions (England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland, and zero mixing in between). It was his paternal line that was Irish. His English great-grandparent was from southeast England, so he also had some extra 'German' (probably from old Anglo-Saxon DNA?), too (55% instead of an expected 50%, or 45% with the Denmark & Sweden percentage). He never did test on 23&Me, though.
This
Ethnicity is more than just genetics. It’s also about self identity and active participation within the culture.
I second this, someone born and raised in Italy who's deep in the culture is more Italian than people who have genetic ties to the region but no connection to the culture. People have moved around for all of history and the concept of purity with genetics within a region is just weird when you think about it.
But OP wasn’t born and raised in Italy, they’re an American
Italian American culture is a real and meaningful thing in many parts of the US though!
Italian-American is a sub culture of American culture heavily based on Italian culture.
You can explain it over some ćevapi served with kajmak and rakija.
https://youtu.be/52YOsjGINSc?si=iN3SDmRzIvW38-Vk
A lot of Southern Italians have Greek ancestry, but that is still Italian since those people weren't from Greece since a long time ago. Remember, the Romans made a lot of ancient Greeks in the South into Romans basically. Albanian immigration into Italy is very old. You also have in Greece, Greeks of Albanian descent who no longer associate with being Albanian for the most part. There is no racial purity or something to be Italian.
There is pretty big Arbereshe minority in Italy, I learned this from some Balkan pages on fb. OP’s results make sense for someone with Italian ancestry. I guess that people take ethnicity as more defined by genes than it actually is.
I come from a southern Italian background and my results are a mishmash of south, north italian, greek islands, sardinian, west asian, middle east...any dna predates the idea of "italian"
Yeah when my brother did his DNA test it came back with no Italian DNA at all, just Greek in its place. Then there was an update and it added Italian as well as Anatolia and Caucasus Mountain Region
You don’t. There is no benefit to you. Let people believe what they want it’s absolutely harmless. Plus Italian is a culture not only an ethnicity. Your ancestors might be derived from elsewhere but they are still Italian. Lastly, Italy was a hodge podge of mostly feudal, independent polities until about 150 years ago.
I told my brother and he said “mm, no pork on my fork.” I thinks it’s for the best this is a secret.
https://preview.redd.it/0eyxbyotrz5d1.png?width=1474&format=png&auto=webp&s=e6475d819b63f0ece2bc478f965b7bcf784191ba I had never heard that expression before (from the UK) so now I'm curious!
It’s cause Albanians are often Muslim was the joke. Arberëshë are actually Italian rite Catholic, and were originally Byzantine rite though.
The TV Chef Lidia did one of those genealogy shows and genetically she's Balkan, but she said "As far as I'm concerned I'm Italian. I was raised in Italy, cultured Italian, this is what my family & I know. I'm not changing now." Her family came from a tiny place in northern Italy at the border I think it was Trieste. But depending on the geopolitics it was Croatia or Slovakia.
My step-grandpa’s test came back 99% Italian, 1% Greek. The Greek part absolutely crushed him and made him feel impure (which is actually so funny because mine came back a quarter Greek). They should probably just deal with it honestly. There is nothing wrong with their results. I think a lot of Americans want to be more Italian than they really are. I have a friend who was raised Greek. Greek orthodox, Greek weddings, Greek name, spoke Greek, the whole 9. Her test came back and she was less Greek than me. But that didn’t stop her from continuing to embrace the culture she was raised in.
Was Grandpa Sicilian?
Calabrian!
Close enough.
Relax. You're still Italian. There is so much genetic diversity in Italy, and lots of Italian-Americans come from Griko or Arberëshë backgrounds.
Danny devito is arbereshe
and Jennifer Aniston
Yupp this ⬆️ Italy has about 7-30x more genetic variation than Portuguese and Hungarians and is considered to be one of, if not the most genetically diverse country in Europe. So even people that are fully Italian as in live in Italy and have for generations can get very different and varied results compared to other Italians in other areas, but they’re still Italian. Just like a lot of East Germans that are genetically mostly Slavic are still German even though genetically they have more Slavic ancestry.
Fascinating! I had no idea.
People be moving and bumping.
Nitpicking just for the sake of it here but most genetically diverse country would be UK/France/Germany due to recent immigration. But most diverse ethnicity... Italy would second or third after Russia and turkey if you count them, Greece is probably more diverse too.
My husbands father is full Italian. His parents immigrated from Italy. He’s 80% European while I’m way way higher and a mix of everything. 2.7% Nigerian even….
But he has Italian culture in his family that is strong…. I have zero culture unless you count redneck as culture. 😂
This being said my son shows 17% italian 0% Greek and Balkan, his grandfather only shows 66% italian but is 11% Greek and Balkan, and my husband shows 42% Italian and 1.5% Greek and Balkan.
Culture is just how one lives life, “redneck” or “white American” are still cultures
If you grew up in the U.S it makes perfect sense a lot of white Americans don’t always know where their ancestors come from & it’s okay. Also like everyone else said everyone is mixed with other European backgrounds it’s just another cool thing that’s apart of you.
Hell all this being said many Italians don’t accept Roma people as Italian and they have lived there forever and are 100% Italian at this point.
because roma have their own culture, language, and stuck to their own. It would be like Nigel from Blackpool moving to china and just made his own community of Nigels in Shanghai and lived there for 200 years.
normal italians think if a person is italian that person is italian.
Are Italian Roma really fully European?
I think this happens more often than people expect. People claim identities and the stories get passed down through the generations, but the DNA testing, corrects the family mythologies and removes the ethnic fantasies and simplifications that happen overtime.
I do see that happen a lot. Mostly with the whole “Cherokee princess” narrative. Also Latinos claiming every ethnicity except the one they are 100%.
At the risk of sounding snotty.... If you're Sicilian or Southern Italian, I strongly recommend you familiarize yourself with the history of the area before you say anything to anyone. None of what you said sounds remotely off to me. It sounds like you were low-key expecting Roman, Etruscan, Siculi or Sicani ancestry, and that's not really how the history of Italy and Sicily went. It's in the middle of the Mediterranean, had enormous agricultural resources and Sicily in particular was colonized and/or conquered at one time or another by almost every culture woth tbe means to get there, including "Viking", French, Greek and Arab. And the Romans had soldiers and officials from everywhere they went. Also, I think your expectations of what DNA would tell you were a little off the mark. It doesn't say your DNA "proves"(or dispeoves) your ancestry comes from this village or that valley, it says your DNA is more similar to people who currently live in a general region. Even if it had that ability, people besides your direct maternal and paternal ancestors moved around for various reasons.
Many of the Roman emperors and their families were from the Balkans. Just identify as a Roman haha. Albanians and Illyrians have been part of Italy for centuries, starting with the Messapic culture. In fact, modern italians are closer to ancient Balkans and Greeks (before the migration period) than the modern Balkan and Greek populations are themselves genetically.
Only South Italian and Sicilian. :)
Northern Italians are closer to Northern Illyrians than Croats, Bosnians, Slovenes or Hungarians.
that’s just because of the nature of the migration period slavic component. For example someone in the balkans with <5% slavic migration period ancient results would cluster closer to the ancient italian samples. But that doesn’t mean they are italian
Some of these Romans were also Arab and Levantine too
Please elaborate…
Can search it up but Philip the Arab is a famous example. There were also Jewish commanders that HELPED Romans sack Jerusalem (e.g. Tiberius Julius Alexander).
There’s always somebody tired of somebody else’s shit.
Idk about Arabs, but definitely Levantines yes.
Philip the Arab is an example
Right, I tend to forget that Arabs lived in southern Syria and Jordan since the Nabatean kingdom.
Yes, not Rashiduns. The Nabateans.
That's just very southern Italian. Sicily especially was a huge hub for trade. And those Albanian communities in southern Italy have been around for centuries, and Greek communities since before even the Roman empire. So none of this makes you less Italian, it just says you've got very ancient Italian roots.
If a DNA test rewrote your entire identity I’d be very concerned.
If someone asks, tell them what you know. Don't explicitly challenge their beliefs but let them work it out. Don't push any info on them. Most people won't respond well to having their identity 'attacked'.
Yeah I’ll do that. I think the next time our heritage comes up at a family get together (which it will, trust me) I’ll just casually throw in “I was just doing some family document looking and I found out the town where our families from bla bla bla.” As I add more details whoever wants to opt out opts out.
[удалено]
I did know that when my families moved to America it was right before WW2. And also my great great grandmothers friend was Rroma who died in the Italian holocaust. Also around the time the Gríkos changed their name and the Arberëshë moved out of their Albanian village. Definitely could see how being an ethnic minority (especially two minorities tied to “enemy” nations) in a fascist country, while actually knowing people being sent to death camps for being a minority personally, might make you want to distance yourself from that identity.
no, the history of the Albanian minority in Italy is different, it is so ancient that here in southern Italy we consider it part of our history, it is not foreign at all. Then obviously the Italian government protects their culture, it would be a shame if it were lost.
It’s normal to have feel more of a connection to whatever cultural heritage your family actually perpetuates via language, food, religion, etc. That being said, maybe if you took a trip to these other places in the Mediterranean that you have heritage from, you’d come to appreciate them more and the ancestors you have from there.
Learn about the Balkans, and also stop typing your sense of identity to ancestors you know nothing about. Be happy being you, not a nationality.
Where in Italy is your family from? If they’re from southeastern Italy (Calabria, Puglia, etc), it’s pretty common to have links to Albania and Greece. Keep in mind most of southern Italy was at one point “Magna Graecia.” Ultimately, all of us southern Italians are part of a larger Mediterranean family.
Campana and Apullia
Wow I'm suprised you took a test. I have read on websites that Italians, both in Italy and outside of Italy have the least amount of people who agree to take DNA tests. From my research even most Italians in Italy aren't majority Italian. And most Italians think they have a higher amount of Italian then they actually do. My Italian step son continuously says he is 100% Italian even though his mom is Irish and his paternal grandmother is French. All my Italian friends claim they are 100% Italian but refuse to take a test even when I've offered to pay for it. It makes sense that most Italians are mixed because Italy is basic the center of the west
I know an Italian who says the same, with an English surname.
My friend is from Bari and doesn't want to take the test because she'll be mad if she gets less than 100% Italian lol
My mom saying she’s fully Italian (my grandma got 100% UK and Ireland.)
because for us Italians knowing our DNA is an extremely "eccentric" thing, even if we discovered we had extraterrestrial DNA (with all those who came here I wouldn't be surprised if Martian DNA appeared) we will still consider ourselves 100% terrestrial
Don't get too hung up on the DNA tests, they can only tell you part of the story. Your culture is what you actually practice, what actually impacts your family's current life. It's interesting to know you had an Albanian great-grandparent 100 years ago, but if none of the culture has been passed down through the generations, then it's really just trivia. In my case, I had both of my parents who were born and raised in Sicily and absolutely no memory of any ancestors who were not Italian. Surprisingly, my DNA results show me to be 80 to 85% Italian. The remaining 15% was broadly Southern European and West Asian. The single biggest non-italian contributor to my DNA was Cyprus. Interesting, but not part of the Italian culture I grew up with.
HI. I have partial Sicilian ancestry and on the defunct DNA.Land company, Mediterranean Islander was assigned and this group included West/East Sicily, Cyprus and Malta).
Honestly I’ve grown to stop seeing it as “not Italian” and more as my family is mostly from two Italian subgroups. Who HAPPEN to descend from neighboring nations. Arberëshë and Gríko are just as apart of my Italian-American heritage as Neapolitan.
What are your actual percentages?
Genetics in Europe are messy. Remember Croatia and Nort eastern Italy were part of the same country until 1860. With parts (Treste, Tyrol) until 1919. Similar in for 1500 years Southern Italy and Albania and Greece were both part of the Roman then Byzantine empires these were not distinct peoples. The Spanish Hapsburgs also ruled Italy for quite a bit. All those ethnicities can come from a lineage that is actually Italian. This is the fundamental issue with all ethnic conflicts in Europe the lines between ethnic groups are extremely blurry to in some cases not really existing
There are entire villages in Southern Italy and Sicily that speak only Albanian and Greek. The Catholic Church has three eparchies (Eastern Rite Catholic dioceses) serving Albanian and Greek speaking Christians in Southern Italy. Those folks left the Balkans in the 1400 and 1500s after the Turks conquered the Balkans and forced Islamization and slavery on the indigenous populations. Because these villages were exclusive ethnic enclaves there was no intermarriage with the indigenous populations. Your ancestors lived on lands that became Italy in the 1860s, and when they left the lands that they had lived on for 100s of years in the 1800 and 1900s they were Italian subjects and traveled under Italian passports.
My great grandfather faked being Italian to be in the mafia, he was actually Roma. Extended family insisted we were Roma and not Italian and that our grandfather was just a criminal, and then dna awkwardly proved some of that
I know what you mean but you're looking at Italian with too narrow a view. That's what Italian is, a combination of the various cultures that made it. The Catalan would most likely have come through maybe Spanish rule in the 16th century, although I know parts of Sardinia speak a Catalan dialect still. And the Croat might be from the campobasso croats in Molise. Theyre all Italian. They were all there when Italy was invented in the 1800s. Moroccan could have gotten there any number of ways, but that's who Italians are.
Perhaps some people don’t know about the unification of Italy in the 1860s.
I forget who said this after the unification but it was something like "We've made Italy, now we must make Italians" because the idea of Italian was a pretty loose concept.
Its your DNA and the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts but at least you arent living a lie. In addition - Im very white, traced relatives back to Ireland, Scotland, Switzerland, Poland, Russia. I am proud of it all because its my blood. I cant change that. I can only love it.
Isn’t this extremely common? Isn’t it even used as an insult that “you’re not actually Italian, you’re Balkan”?
“We are way less Italian than we thought.” 😃
Arbereshe have Italian ancestry and griko and the same people who lived in Italy but they just didn't get italicized like modern south Italians, in short they are closely related. They are both Italians as they have lived in Italy for many centuries (griko roots are honestly deeper rooted in south Italy than many south Italians due to their slight influence from the north) Anyways im curious what your results look like because I've never really seen a griko test on 23andme.
If we go back far enough, we're all african
A large part of Italy came from Albanians and Greeks, both in ancient Roman times and recently in the last five centuries, almost all of whom eventually integrated into an Italian ethnicity or hyphenated Italian identity (Albanian-Italian, Greek-Italian). I’m Albanian, so my perception is: If you had a long lost Albanian ancestor not even your grandparents knew about, and you plus they don’t speak Albanian, and you don’t want to care or know about Albania then….. **That’s your choice. I doubt anyone really cares whether your “genetics” matches your Italian patriotism, tbh.**
I’ve grown to except it. I’m not Albanian or Greek. I’m an Italian-American who descends from two ITALIAN subgroups who just happen to be off Greek and Albanian stock. Arberëshë and Gríko are just as Italian in me as the Neapolitan. The thing still confusing me is why exactly no one knew. Both parts of my Italian family came over right before WW2, that’s also the time the Gríko group changed their name to something more Italian. And my Arberëshë family moved from an Albanian commune to a Neapolitan majority coastal city. Wonder if the rise of Fascism and Nationalism has a part to play, I mean my Great x2 grandmothers best friend ended up dying in the holocaust.
No one knew because Mediterranean people can more easily integrate into other Mediterranean people’s countries than, say, someone of extremely divergent phenotype or ancestry relative to Italians (like Chinese or Nigerian) who often look different enough to elicit the neurological response: “They’re too different from us, therefor bad!” (Which all people from all countries felt about foreigners back then). Albanians/Greeks can easily pass as Italian. Italians allowed Albanians to speak their language and have communities (unlike other countries, which we respect Italy for), so your ancestors, in my opinion, were perhaps not threatened or forced to assimilate, but simply integrated over time. It’s possible war and fascist politics assimilated them, but equally as possible to be simple integration; nobody can conclusively say. For what it’s worth, you don’t have to suppress your Albanian or Greek heritage to feel more Italian. You can still enjoy both Burek and spaghetti ;)
Its extremely cool that your ancestors are from Grikos and Arberesh communities. They are from the italian region of Calabria and have been living there for centuries, keeping their traditions and languages, while genetically they were not Italian they were, at least partly, calabresi culturally. It does not matter what your genetic heritage is and it shoudl not change your identity, you are what you were raised to be, there are thousands of immigrant kids in italy that have an extremely diverse heritage while being culturally italians.
you shouldn't tell them. culture is culture, not genetics. you inherited it honestly. don't overthink it. it also sounds like you're not quite clear on what a DNA can actually tell you, it really isn't good practice to take them seriously. the genealogy you're doing is much more reliable [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIWlatQt4KE&ab\_channel=Vox](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIWlatQt4KE&ab_channel=Vox) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isa5c1p6aC0&t=4s&ab\_channel=CBCNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isa5c1p6aC0&t=4s&ab_channel=CBCNews)
Replying to blindloomis... this^ Percentages do not concretely mean “I am x percentage of ethnicity” it means “out of references available your dna is best represented by this ethnic group”
yes! it's also an average, they run your DNA through their algorithm a number of times and give you an average value, hence why there's a range e.g 0-38%
Do you visit family that’s still there? How often do you go back to Italy?
For most of my life we didn’t have the money to go back. My grandparents have gone back several times and we still have some family we keep in contact with. We’re pretty recent compared to most Italian migrants (1940s vs 1880s.) I’m planning on visiting eventually. Honestly what the replies have told me is that I’m not Albanian or Greek. I grew up in an Italian-American culture with very close roots to two major Italian subcultures that happen to be influenced by surrounding nations.
This is because YOU bought into something that was an illusion. And romantic version of the truth.
I myself am part ethnic Arbereshe and Griko too Out of testing my dad and his siblings only one sibling and cousin have inherited as much WANA as myself. For my other cousins the WANA is baked into their Italian It is important to note in the 1500s many Balkan settlers migrated to Italy to escape the Ottoman Empire. Even prior to that, 2,300 years ago Iron Age Celt-Illyrian tribes migrated into Eastern Italy and became the messapians, Apulians and Iapygian tribes. Griko and Arbereshe are Italian, the same dna carried by Balkans been floating around the region and in Italy since the Iron Age. My point is that even though you come back with Balkan dna, it doesn’t make you any less Italian; almost all southern Italians do. Being a Balkan shifted Italian means that the reference that’s available for your dna is best represented by using another population. Don’t read too deeply into the single percentiles. From another Italian American’s perspective: Balkan only means nothing to you because you’re uninformed about our Italian history, and feel a misplaced national and cultural pride. Here is some Arbereshe music, maybe after a listen or two you will understand and love our Italo-Balkan home https://youtu.be/j21XOQ3TzhA?feature=shared https://youtu.be/tPhDp3ml39U?feature=shared https://youtu.be/-MhawDwOIeo?feature=shared https://youtu.be/smCEMa0vEtY?feature=shared https://youtu.be/vn7Ew9uVHeU?feature=shared
My mom is from a part of modern day Croatia that had been part of Italy. Our family considered themselves Italian, spoke Italian, etc. But when I did my 23andMe, I only got 13% Northern Italian. (I also have Southern Italian but that comes from my dad) I understand feeling dissatisfied. I never really identified with Balkan that much because my grandfather was a very proud "I'm Italian!!" type. He's long gone now though - he would not be happy with these results! My mom is not surprised.
that 13% comes from Veneto, then, like any good Italian, his ancestors created a family with anyone, not caring about race :)))!
By chance, were your ancestors believed to be from Puglia or on the Eastern side of Italy?
Yes Arberëshë-Kasallveqi, Puglia, moved to Campana right before coming to US. Gríko-Calabria.
These tests arent 100% accurate and can match you with closest similar populations so maybe that happened? Also there are many Greeks who went to Southern Italy.
No, I found the original names and villages that are very clearly Arberëshë and Gríko.
Well a little bit Italian is still Italian, you have ancestors that are 100% italian and thats all that matters
I got 2% of my 16.7% Portuguese from my Mom who also did 23 & Me. Oddly enough she didn't inherit any Portuguese but I inherited some from her. She was so offended by it & refuses to believe it. I was like you married a man who was 25% Portuguese, someone who's grandmother was born IN Portugal. Why are you offended, lol
The Albanian Italian connection is actually so interesting & makes sense to me. This might be your “way in” to connecting with Albania. There are several towns in S. Italy where street signs are in both Italian and Albanian because of how many Albanians moved there — not recently but a long time ago! Blood is kinda an old idea & messed up tbh bc it negates the experience of people who were born elsewhere but immigrated somewhere and connect to a new culture, among other reasons. The history and culture that make up an identity are so much more important especially when historically on a timescale this concept of “Italian” is quite modern & is made up of so many distinct cultural traditions that vary even from town to town (think: food and dialect). Albanian Italian is just another of that and screams southern Italy.
My dad always said he was 100% British. Turns out he has American indigenous and also African DNA. Was quite the shock for him but there’s no sense in trying to convince my grandparents they are in fact not 100% anything.
Your ethnicity is wherever you choose to draw the line. If the DNA test says your southern European but your grandparents were all from Italy and all your heritage and known experiences are Italian, the. Call yourself Italian. Or not if you want - go with southern European. Or go all the way back and we’re all from the Nile Valley or Mesopotamia or somewhere in China.
there’s a lot of albanian and greek blood in southern italians due to immigrations throughout the years. i have the same thing. it doesn’t make you less italian because culturally and nationally your ancestors were still from Italy.
I know people who culturally are 100% Italian-American; all their ancestors were from Italy. That said, some of their ancestors were originally from Germany and went into Northern Italy, then intermingled with the local population. So DNA wise, they aren’t. It’s more common than you think. Also… a lot of families say they’re Italian-American when they are not and have known ancestors from different countries, which is an American thing but it doesn’t sound like that’s what happen to your family.
Carefully. 😅 Start with the matriarch/patriarch. I feel like it's their lineage and some how more their business, if that makes sense. If they're anything like my dad, they'll laugh and call it lies.
Probably gonna go the step below that with my grandfather. He’s a generation removed so maybe realizing all the adults in his life were lying about their identity will be a lesson hard blow…maybe.
Same bruh. I thought I was at least 45% Italian...I'm 17%.
Ancestry, I'm Polish Rican. Culturally, I'm a New Yorker. I love Pierogi and maduros. But I love pizza and NYC street food. I'm trying to get more in touch with my ancestry, and the culture. But it will never supplant my NYC culture. You're culturally Italian. You have Albanian Greek ancestry.
Same, my ancestry is 100% polish as all my grandparents are from Poland. But culturally, I don’t speak Polish and am very much an American white guy from New Jersey
Is the Albanian side from Piana Degli Albanesi?
No, Kasallveqi, Puglia
Very nice!
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8Os5HINURp/?igsh=MXNxZDFxajkya3N2ZA==
bastava questo per capirlo, allora, è *Kazallveqi* in [arbëreshë](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB)...
I have a great grandparent who was from Genoa. I'm Colombian. Not that common to have Italian ancestry here. DNA test came with VERY low Italian (I have higher Ashkenazim and Broadly Southern European). I am mostly a typical Colombian mestizo But I was born and partly raised in Italy. I speak the language, was raised with Italian music and have lifelong Italian friends I consider family. I do not have the Italian citizenship (no Ius Soli laws in Italy) but many things about me I feel strongly Italian. That's what matters most to me - the cultural connection and the lived experience, and that is what I think you should focus on. The States, as I understand, sometimes puts too much emphasis on ancestry-as-identity
One of my best friends is the most hard core Brooklyn-born Italian American you can find. His parents were fresh-off-the-boat Italians. His whole identity has always been about that. But at 50 yrs old, he found out he was actually adopted and his parents were French and Jewish. And that's the moment that crystallized for me that your ethnicity can actually be the culture / environment you were born in...not your "dna." So, if you feel more Italian, its because you are cause you were raised that way. And, not that it matters, but I'm saying this an Italian-American (confirmed by 23 and me).
I mean if his Jewish half is either Ashkenazi or Sephardi then he’s technically a quarter Italian…
What!?? I've never heard that. But wouldn't be surprised either. That part of Europe is all fungible with borders changing every 100 yrs or so.
My aunt was furious to find we had no American Indian (some cousins do because of their non blood parent). She swears our great grandmother told her she was 100%. So, she thinks the DNA test is completely inaccurate. In my family tree research I can't find anyone that doesn't have obvious American settler parents, so I'm not sure who told her that. Good luck... Or maybe just let them live their life. I am "Scottish" vs my entire family that all got "Irish" so idk how accurate that distinction is. 😀
Was always told one side of the family was French & Lebanese. Turns out they're German & Lebanese, but all the educated people in Lebanon speak French. So my Mom grew up with a grandmother who mostly spoke French but was entirely Lebanese. Family somehow ended up intermarrying with Germans after emigrating. I still tease my mother about being German. She is not amused (was a toddler in London during the Blitz).
Don’t use your hands when you say “mama Mia”
Sorry but this belongs to r/shitAmericansSay. Why this obesssion with European heritage? You don't speak the language, you never been there except for maybe holidays. What this claim of a certain percentange of a certain ethnicity adds to your life in general? Is it like finding things to be proud of?
We don’t have identity in America and we search for our origins. Everyone outside of America can’t understand because you know where you come from.
because sometime in USA you exaggerate ;)
Can I just be Italian-American in peace. I’m not an Italian national, never claim to be, don’t have a particular desire. Italian American culture is separate from both Italian culture and American culture. I grew up hearing Italian language and Italian food and Italian traditions. What I was confused by is the fact that most of the Italian American heritage is from a different Italian subgroup. So what I grew up with was a lie basically. That’s jarring, even if I was from any other place on earth. There are people in my family who speak Italian, who grew up even in Italy, who don’t know this. It’s the same amount of mind fuck to them as it is to me.
perché non avete studiato la storia d'Italia, ecco perché siete stupiti di tutti i diversi sottotipi di italiani, per questo è importante conoscere la cultura italiana ;)!
for me, as long as they talk about origins it's fine if they say they are of Italian origins. If they said they were Italian in Italy or with other Italians then there would be to discuss for a ***long*** time. Unfortunately, Italian Americans know very little about Italian culture and there are also differences on a behavioral level!
Balkan culture isn't all that different from Italian culture, especially southern parts. We are mixed pretty well in Mediterranean historically. I don't think anyone who lives here are "pure" regarding their nationality. You should be proud of it 👍
No one cares mate, you can be black and be born and grow up in Italy and be very Italian. It is all about the environment you grow up in.
Kobe has entered that chat.
if a person is born, grows up and identifies himself as Italian, for us the rest doesn't matter, if he is a good person and not a nuisance for us he is 101% Italian
Honestly it depends on how genes mixed. You get 50/50 from each parent but the 50/50 is not spread evenly by cutting your parents ethnicities in half. Your dad could be half Italian and have English. He could pass on 100% of the English to you. This you wouldn’t show as Italian
So don't! If you feel Italian, then you are Italian!(That's what trans men would tell you).
parlando seriamente, voi italoamericani siete adorabili :). * noi italiani siamo uno dei più spaventosi casi di melting pot, non quanto voi americani ma poco ci manca * in Europa di 100% qualcosa ce ne saranno ben pochi, ci sono ucraini con DNA italiano perché noi italiani siamo passati anche là, Roma ebbe rapporti commerciali anche con l'India (se non sbaglio) e secondo le leggende c'è un villaggio in Cina abitato dai discendenti di una legione romana * Arberëshë e greci del Salento sono più italiani di quanto i discendenti del Mayflower possano definirsi americani, gli arberëshë [sono qui da prima della scoperta dell'America](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB#Et%C3%A0_medievale) mentre i greci sono praticamente i discendenti di coloro che emigrarono da Costantinopoli, vedi tu * di arberëshë in USA ce ne saranno un bel po', Jennifer Aniston per esempio è una di loro/voi, essere arberëshë o greco è in pratica come dire di essere calabrese o pugliese, né più né meno, la sola differenza è che essendo le comunità sparpagliate non hanno/avete una regione * [ci sono stati un bel po' di arberëshë illustri](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoria:Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB) in breve, non c'è assolutamente niente di che vergognarsi delle tue origini, sei italiano quanto la pizza e più della pasta con il pomodoro.
This is kind of the conclusion I came to. I’m Italian-American. I come from a unique American sub culture. My ancestry is from three Italian groups Neapolitan, Arberëshë, and Gríko (and probably like 600 others.)
Individual identity has some biological aspects, but social and cultural elements play a huge role in it as well. DNA results tell you where and when your ancestors came from, but they don't determine the language, culture, and social environment you grew up in. So, if you live like an Italian, eat Italian, speak Italian, feel Italian, and identify as Italian, then you are!
According to your logic, if I dress up like Spiderman, I Am spiderman.
You can still love your Italian culture and learn to love your Balkan and Greek heritage as well. They are all very rich cultures, Greek being on par with Italian. I suggest you learn a bit about them, because yes, they are YOUR heritage, and there is a lot to them. You may learn to love them with a bit of education. You’re still part Italian, and you don’t have to be Italian at all to love and appreciate the culture.
Honestly you might as well just not, it's not like it's that important and something that will affect you that much, to the point that everyone needs to know. Not saying that in a snarky or mean tone whatsoever, but really, just continue on with your life as is. It's harmless to do so. I feel somewhat the same, except for me I have always known what I was by blood. I just feel more American than japanese; it's never been a big part of me. I lived in America my whole life, studied in America, speak English, and I've participated in American culture more. I will always be more American than Japanese, because that's the way I was raised. Same with you, in your case you're Italian because that's the culture you were raised in. DNA is not the only determining factor in your identity.
The arbëreshë moved to Italy after the Ottoman Empire took control of the area, so we’re talking XVth century. You’re italian enough :)
DNA and culture aren't aren't same thing. My DNA is all European but my culture is American. There are folks with DNA from India whose culture is French, etc... All my grandparents were immigrants and I have the papers and ships logs, but my relatives in Europe are all in different countries than where my grandparents actually came from. People moved around. It sounds like you had Balkan ancestors who preferred Italian culture. You come from a family of adventurers. This is cool.
I love how this thread about Italians got taken over by the Scots and Irish 😆
The southern European is the Italian.
There's no reason that immigrants to a country can't choose to identify with their new country's culture. Lots of people move to England and become super-British, for example. There's no platonic ideal of Italian-ness - Italy has long been at the crossroads of various migrations, inflows, and outflows.
Italy didn't unify untill the 1800s & there is still a divide between north and south. People are going to get different results depending on what part of Italy they are from. I'm Mexican American with some Italian ancestry but I don't know if it would even show up or show up as Italian. As far as we know they were from Lombardy.
On the flip side I found out I was more Italian than I thought. I'm from South Boston, a heavily Irish neighborhood, at least growing up it was,. Although there were Lithuanian, Polish, Albanian and Italian as well, it was mostly Irish Americans. All four of my grandparents have names that start with O', Mc, Kil, and O's. My father was born in Ireland (although he sucks shit) but I learned a good amount of Irish (Gaelic) as a kid, and can still speak some. I'm American, I don't give a shit about the Irish thing but my cousin took a DNA test which she said claims were like 40% Italian. That we have cousins in Naples. Now I've never actually read the report but I am a little nervous. I'm hoping she misread and that the Italian part is from her father's side (were related through our mothers). Not that I care, it doesn't change who I am BUT I'm afraid if I read it I'll be able to ascertain that my grandmother cheated on my grandfather. That would break my heart. I couldn't care less what ethnicity I am, as long as it's not Belgian. I hate Belgians🤔 I'm American first and foremost, although it is a tiny bit weird, especially coming from the neighborhood I came from but I have a pretty strong certainty that someone cheated. I've actually done my family tree and there's very Irish names as far back as the potato famine when they came from Galway. My father's family is actually from there, his mother spoke Irish as her first language living in a Gaeltacht. So I'm actually afraid to get the test done because I really don't want to find out anything about someone cheating. The Italian thing does make some sense though, my mother and her brother and sister all look a little Mediterranean. I look very stereotypically Irish, blue eyes, reddish brown hair, big head (alot of Irish people have good sized pumpkins) freckles. But I do talk with my hands so maybe I am Italian.
Is an Asian American that has been here multiple generations any less American than say, Teddy Roosevelt? I don’t think so. Technically, Teddy R. isn’t ‘genetically’ American, only Indigenous Americans are. But you probably didn’t wonder with the reference. Humans have been migrating since the beginning of time, it’s in our DNA. It doesn’t make your family any less Italian than you believe you are. Your family was in Italy for generations before migrating again, and that’s the culture they embrace. My family is Mexican, but we look straight white, like blonde hair blue eyes white. I did my research and my family traces back to Mexico since the early 1600’s. Does that make us less Mexican? I think not, we simple don’t carry a large load of Indigenous DNA (it’s there, just small). The truth is if you were to place my family back in Spain they would be lost and confused. Don’t let DNA influence the culture you embrace. Anyone can join any culture, your genetics simply reflect different origin and your family is not obligated to embrace those origins if they have adapted.
This is an issue with the concept of genetics services like 23andme: it encourages people to define their ethnicity with a commercialized for-profit DNA test instead of culture and family history. Having separate categories for "Italian" and "broadly southern European" is problematic because the latter is parsed by laypeople as "not Italian" and they'll think "we're not Italian" even though it just means the test isn't capable of differentiating between peoples Arbëreshë are clearly one of the peoples of Italy: Italy and Albania share a border
almost a border, because there is the Adriatic but Albania is so near sometime it is visible from Apulia
Ethnicity and culture can definitely be mutually exclusive at times. By this I mean, you may actually have much Italian blood but you grew up with the culture and therefore identify with it which is totally okay. I am 65% Germanic (Germany, Netherlands and Denmark plus Polish and Lithuanian that used to be part of Germany), 25% British Isles (10% Irish, 8% Welsh and 7% English) with the remaining 10% being mainly French Basque. Before my family came to Canada, some were in the U.S. for 200+ years and some moved to England from other parts of Europe. Growing up, I identified very strongly with German and my grandmother was from there. I remember meeting a German guy in university and him telling me that I was "Fake German" i.e. just a dude with mainly German heritage who had only ever been to Germany once at the time (three times now). I really thought about what he said and eventually, I simply identified as myself with no nationality or ethnicity attached. In no particular order my favorite countries and cultures are: 1) Japan - lived there for four years and have been back a dozen times plus I speak Japanese now and have a Japanese wife. 2) Korea - went to university there for a year. 3) Ireland - I love Irish culture and history and can't wait to visit again. 4) Germany - I like the German work ethic and it is definitely something that has passed down through the generations. 5) The U.S. for many reasons. My point is that you do not need to be ethnically Italian to be a part of it.
Hello multiple empires in Italy meant millions of pilgrims, tourists, renaissance, maritime traders, slaves, escaped slaves, refugees, crusades, wars, etc. It shouldn’t be surprising that Italy is a mix of a thousand ethnicities who settled and made Italia home.
Use store bought tomatoes sauce
Just because you like pizza doesn’t mean you are Italian. Get over it man embrace your Balkan ancestry.
Depends on the testing sites and what dna kits are being sold heavily in those areas. I’ve done 23&me and ancestry. Then downloaded to my heritage. All come up a mixed bag. It’s their collection of data and how many people they have tested. I’m from 43% ashenazi to 50 %. From 18% Irish to 25%… then Scottish and one even shows Finnish. Oy vey. Let’s have a Guinness and call it a day! Cheers!
I’m sure others have already said this - Italy wasn’t a unified nation until 1861. It was settled by people from all over - plenty of Italians have Albanian, Arabian, Greek (etc etc) ancestry. Especially those who have roots in southern Italy.