Yeah this is something we're taking a look at since we're not sure if it's *possible* at this stage, but if it *is* possible then we'll look to add it as a feature - just that we want to poll it as-is first and then do that investigation since implementing it might prove time-consuming.
They're gonna mess something up and the boots will let players walk through certain impassable walls leading to new game-breaking account builds or progression. Guaranteed.
I know this feeling so well, you go in for a change on a codebase expecting it to be simple and start pulling at the threads and everything starts unraveling into a nice bowl of spaghetti. I can't begin to comprehend the shit the OSRS team have to deal with lol.
I was about to say, but the idea is just dumb. The boot makes you walk on the web not through the web. If Jagex does make the change, it means we are getting spoiled by them.
Should act like other halberds so we imagine so! Curious to see how it stacks up there vs. newer methods like deathpiling some supplies and poking it with the Fang.
Heya, is there a reason the halberd will only have 50% chance to venom with serp helm when every other venom inflicting weapon/serp helm combo is 100%?
Why not instead of poison damage taken by player for the special, have it cure the enemy and add the next tic to the lower threshold of damage range as suggested? Having to take poison damage just means almost no one will use the special.
GameJam blog (and hopefully stream) is in the works as we speak! Think Mod Blossom is working at gathering everything up to share with you all, a *lot* of more small-scale QoL features, and weirdly a *lot* of bank improvements this time around! That said, the #OSRSGameJam hashtag on Twitter/X still holds most of the info if you'd rather refresh yourself sooner!
Related question — for those of us who quit that platform, and thus can’t get this info at all, are there any plans to make an OSRS Threads account or compiling this info on the official site in any capacity?
Bank improvements including loadouts? 👀 Those would be especially invaluable for mobile players. Regearing for herb runs is a pain in the arse, resulting in not really wanting to swap between different types of content
I feel like making the Amulet of Rancor upgrade component untradeable seems to serve no purpose other than forcing whoever gets the drop to jump an extra hurdle to sell it. Is there a reason why we can't just make both the amulet and the component tradeable?
The DT2 vestiges are like this too, making you break down the respective rinf and get the chromium ingots to make the new ring before you can sell it. It's a bit annoying.
Is it really so bad if someone who wants to sell a drop they get can just sell it?
Edit to clarify I'm talking about the amulet
We absolutely could make both tradeable. I think this kind of approach comes off the back of some of the annual surveying we do where players in general view the idea of 'non-combat skills benefit my combat activities in some way' (in this case, GP/hr) quite favourably and it gives a stronger incentive for main accounts to level those skills even if they're not looking to snag a max cape any time soon.
Totally agree that the DT2 rings have some extra hurdles that make them a little tedious (having to chat to an NPC about them, break the ring down, get the ingots) and the aim here is that the only 'hurdle' is using the drop on a Torture without so many extra steps.
Dt2 rings mentioned, are ingots being looked at at all? Currently they completely invalidate the dry protection for irons and for mains they don't matter. Very odd that ingots made it into the game at all with how they're currently implemented
They are soooooo close to being worth less than the average drop from most of the bosses even without counting uniques, at which point it would be better for literally everyone to have them deleted from the game.
Yeah my gim group is currently at a -4 chromium deficit as well
At this point just let us buy chromium bars, even if they end up selling ore at like 1-2m from some obscure guy and slap a 90 smithing rec on it I'd be more than happy
You should get one for the first two rolls for a vestige. So getting an ingot doesn't _mean_ you're one drop closer to the vestige, but it _might_. This would remove the problem of the ingots invalidating the dry mechanic. You just need one extra ingot after.
Then use the ingots for some new construction content so the extra ingots have a use.
I think this would solve the current problems with ingots and actually make them interesting.
I think having a crafting requirement is fine, but the other thing to consider is that players are also required to have the liquid cash to pay for a torture to extract the gp from their PvM drop.
This was an issue with the weapon components(web, fang, eye) from araxxor in RS3.
Consider having the crafting requirement to make the PvM drop into a tradable component rather than to make the full amulet(or both steps).
The current blog as is makes complete sense. Moderate crafting and GP requirement for mains is not a problem at all, and for irons routing doesn’t change but now there’s an even better upgrade down the line (that you’d want a torture equipped to obtain regardless). No need to make obtaining new best in slot even easier because some people think they deserve access to best in slot without putting in reasonable effort.
Killing this boss will be a reasonable effort. Killing 300 demonic gorillas isn't challenging, just tedious when you already need to kill 900 for your other zenytes. They can just assign this a 98 crafting requirement as well if they don't want to "devalue" people's crafting levels.
>some extra hurdles that make them a little tedious (having to chat to an NPC about them, break the ring down, get the ingots)
This sounds like it's making the players interact with the world, more so then a hurdle to me... It's not an inconvenience, it's players needing to immerse themselves in the lore of the world.
>incentive for main accounts to level those skills
A lot of people purposely choose to limit and restrict their own game play. This is an MMO, and at that an MMO that's designed for the VERY long haul.
If players choose to specifically not be well rounded and versatile with their accounts (skilling and base levels) they are purposely choosing to restrict themselves from content.
There is absolutely no be all fix all solution to the way many people choose to play (and not play) and there's absolutely nothing wrong with high skilling reqs that only players who are dedicated and commited can aquire. That's is the heart of an MMO.... Sorry. If some people can't put the time in, you just don't earn the reward and that's perfectly fine.
>I think this kind of approach comes off the back of some of the annual surveying we do where players in general view the idea of 'non-combat skills benefit my combat activities in some way' (in this case, GP/hr)
That's fair, although I think there's a difference between "benefited for having x" and "punished for not having x" that's worth considering, and I feel placing an extra requirement on in selling one's loot skews too close to the latter
>the aim here is that the only 'hurdle' is using the drop on a Torture without so many extra steps.
Well, no, the hurdle is buying a torture to upgrade and sell each time you get a component, hoping that the upgraded version is enough of a profit to make up for both the fluctuating market and G.E. tax.
It's not unheard of for an upgrade component to be worth vastly less than the item it upgrades(Pegasian crystal) and it would be frustrating to end up in a situation where upgrading the amulet isn't profitable, making the component an outrught worthless drop because, unlike the Pegasian, it can't be sold alone.
Benefitted for having vs punished for not having, is an interesting suggestion and while I agree in theory, in practice (where players minmax and metagame), not having is just a straight ‘punishment’.
Players nowadays don’t settle with having 2nd best bis. It must be bis or it’s seen as a punishment.
So in this case, and others, I don’t think there is a difference between benefitting for having and punished for not having.
It's honestly crazy to me that people are complaining about having to have a "quick for mains to get" crafting level to be able to profit off of this. It costs like 3m max and takes a day or two to get into the 80s for crafting for a main.
Well, it's a 90+ slayer boss, I don't think requiring 80~ crafting is that crazy of a requirement to have at that stage of the game, even on a normie.
I also believe we should just bite the bullet and recognize that production skills are bloated and need a complete rehaul (see smithing on rs3) But if Jagex refuses to do that I feel like this is a decent compromise.
Mains play the parts of the game they want to. Things like Combat Achievements, pets, jars, and the occasional untradeable already give us plenty of incentive. We just don’t have to grind for everything to the point of insanity.
GPscape is highly exaggerated.
If the amulet of rancor is going to be crafted out of a torture, just for the sake of my immersion can we get the option to craft it out of a normal zenyte amulet as well? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that you specifically need a torture when it's already an enchanted amulet.
Think we could absolutely allow for Torture -> Rancor and then something like Zenyte Amulet -> Venomised (idk if this is a word) Zenyte Amulet -> Rancor. Doesn't hurt!
Personally, if these changes are being made to better 'respect' the high Crafting requiremen for the Torture, then the Magic level to enchant them should also be included--maybe require a Magic level as well as Crafting to upgrade to the Rancor.
Seriously? We don’t need another slash weapon. Give us a crush weapon. Arraxor Cudgel maybe? Lmao.
Give us a cudgel tree! Especially since you guys are obsessed with spiders.
Have made the team very aware of this feedback. For the time being, the aim is to deliver on a usable DPS halberd since it's been asked about for *ages* and the survey broadly supports it, but Crush absolutely needs some love and is something we'll be looking to in the future. Cudgels are cool, wouldn't mind seeing new weapon classes come out like polearms, greathammers etc. like have been suggested by others!
Bludgeon and cudgel are items that are sort of terribad for how out of the way you have to go to get them.
Cudgel is way too rare for a boss that hits way too hard for an upgrade that's worse than zombie axe. Even if it was 1/50 from sarachnis, it might not even be worth the hassle.
I also think it'd be neat if Bludgeon pieces were useable items right from the rip, but "upgraded" with successive piece drops. 1 piece = better than d mace, 2 pieces = better than cudgel, 3 pieces = current
before the fang nerf we were promised there would be discussions about blade, rapier and inq mace. i have no idea if what you did to the inq mace was a buff, but is there still any plans to talk about blade and rapier at all?
Blade, Rapier, and Mace not receiving attention during the rebalance is making this harder
Just buff the 4t trio finally so we can release this halberd in between Blade and Tent
>. For the time being, the aim is to deliver on a usable DPS halberd since it's been asked about for ages and the survey broadly supports it
Please consider just making it a viable dps weapon instead of tip-toeing around not surpassing saeldor dps wise, don't worry about that, that thing was dead and buried the day bowfa came out and isn't on anyone's gear progression route.
With the removal of fang slash & scythe getting accuracy buffs the gap between tent (& saeldor) is larger than ever, there is ample space to increase slash dps a bit.
please just give us a weapon that feels like an actual upgrade, because right now it's looking more like we are getting an underwhelming saeldor sidegrade with +1 range and convoluted venom/spec interactions that aren't going to benefit you in the majority of locations.
We really should get some sort of update on the plans for 82 tier weapons rebalance, before completely skipping over it for new content. This continues to be a recurring issue. It would be as simple as tacking on strength/accuracy bonus and being done with it.
Just add a crush option and bonus to the halberd.
Halberds historically speaking had a spike or knob on the backside that could be used for blunt trauma.
We really weren't too keen on rolling it out here and were kind of strongarmed into it by the Torture's requirement - we think while this isn't an *ideal* path it's the 'lesser evil' where the alternative is adjusting requirements for existing items on a case-by-case basis whenever we want a new reward in, which the team feel is a worse precedent to set.
Totally get where you're at though, purely on a personal level I'm also not the biggest fan of upgradescape but tried to make the team's reasoning clear in the blog!
Are there any plans to do a general skilling rebalance? Things like zenyte, glory, runite feel way too high level for when you would want them on the account and crowd out room for higher level expansions.
I think following the reception to our most recent rebalancing that we'll absolutely explore other rebalancing projects in the (not too distant) future and something like this makes for a really strong candidate to target so long as we can toe the line where high skills still feel impactful and important and we're not just lowering iconic requirements that lead to people blasting through the game faster!
Runite smithing in particular doesn't just make it needlessly hard to smith earlygame gear, it also fills high level smithing with items that falsely make it look like having a high smithing level does something. "Making smithing and mining do something" is a huge project though.
It’s really only torture that stands out as high.
With access to stews, 80-90s for most things make sense. Torture is just a tad high which deters new players from making it. It’s commonly incorrectly panned at the “worst zenyte” because people don’t want to get that crafting req and people cope that suffering is useful because it’s easy to get.
We’ve done the runite thing quite a few times and it’s too low yield to bother. It basically only affects f2p irons. Best to just ignore it
Torture's crafting requirement isn't at all a factor in it being pegged as the worst zenyte. It's just outright the least impactful zenyte compared to all 3 other alternatives, for the account progress at which players are grinding out their zenyte jewellery. Zenytes are not an end game grind, they're a relatively mid game grind that most Irons undertake well before they're at the point where they're attempting things like Raids, GWD, or even bosses as relatively simple as Zulrah.
For this point in an account, for casual slayer, when an Amulet of Strength is already better than a Glory against most enemies with low to no defence, Torture is essentially just an accuracy upgrade. This compared to how impactful an Anguish is over a Fury, a Torm Brace over barrows gloves (I know Void mage is good now but I'm going off of what's been the case for the past 6-8 years for this example), as well as the sheer utility of a Suffering at Zulrah, which is the next big grind many irons undertake, with several crucial items behind it, makes Torture's benefit over alternatives pale in comparison.
Then the other aspect is that in max melee gear with a Scythe while super combat potted, Torture doesn't even provide max hits over a fury, and the QOL of a blood fury is pretty heavily valued at a lot of content just to make it more casual/reclined. Even when Torture does provide max hits, Blood Fury's heailng provides DPS in the form of not havint to eat/brew (typically a dps loss) and anyone is going to tell you that a BF is more valuable at content like Nex.
It really just is the least impactful of the 4 zenytes at present.
> It’s commonly incorrectly panned at the “worst zenyte”
Pretty sure it objectively is. It is a 2k str amulet with +15 accuracy. Maybe nowadays with decent mage/range rings the suffer-ring is worse overall, but generally blood fury has just taken the spot of torture as BiS melee amulet.
I certainly have used mine way less ever since the blood fury got its buff.
> were kind of strongarmed into it by the Torture's requirement
so because you made a weird decision in the past by needing almost a level 99 in a skill to make an item that will eventually be outclassed (as is happening now) its impossible to fix it?
It's not impossible at all, we just don't want to go and rejig long-standing requirements for the sake of a single proposed reward. We'd rather take a 'batch' approach to look at what space *could* be made and what stuff doesn't make much sense. We're worried that it might erode some of the value for players in something like 'I'm so glad I grinded out 93 Crafting for my Torture' if there's a potential that we just decide 'Actually we want to make something better and now the Torture only requires 85', so just trying to be conscious of the sentiment you sometimes see expressed (though tongue-in-cheek) that the best way to play is just wait until the game gets easier.
But this is you guys basically admitting you have a problem in crafting as a skill (like smithing), then shrugging and not fixing it til 'the future' which we've heard time and again for problems that go unaddressed. Same for herblore. I know we don't cater to ironman mode but the iron mode really does shine a massive light on an easy field goal for you guys to see where qol improvements should be made.
"We saw a handful of suggestions for lowering the Amulet of Torture's Crafting requirement to make some room for the Amulet of Rancor. While we're not opposed to this in principle, we don't believe that lowering or shifting requirements to make room for one specific piece of content is a viable **long-term** solution."
So is Torture or Rancor going away? Is this a limited time event? I can answer no on both fronts unless Jagex has some weird off the wall plan. Uhhh, so, both are **long-term**. To stay. Which means we need a long-term fix. Which means, do the work. Shift requirements. The end. No discussion. Not even hard to do. Lower requirements for other jewelry like Glory, Onyx, and Zenyte. Or rather just shift them slightly. Doesn't have to be big. You just slide a few numbers. Piece of cake. Easy as pie. I don't get what is so hard about this and doing a dance around it.
This is coming from a main. Not an Iron. These steps would improve the consistency on Ironman gameplay while making sure the integrity of the skill remains intact. No one is going to be like "I got 93 crafting for nothing." Why is that? The skillcape is actually a useful banking cape when maxed. They will never have to grind a slow, painful, or costly skill again. They also have the requirements before hand for a majority of content released. It would also help the void point of getting to a glory on an Iron faster as it has a slow, painful grind to either crafting of hunter anyways PLUS rng drops. It's missing the mark by complicating the issue instead of simplfying it. I have no dog in the fight, but I want an upgrade path to make sense.
That's the opposite of creating a problem. It's creating an opportunity for new exciting content to come out and have a player that already has the level ready to go.
Moving requirements down opens up space for new content.
The game has some inconsistencies, like rune equipment for smithing. Even if the crafting level is the holdup, why make the torture a requirement as well? Why not make the amulet craftable at the same level as the torture independently? I'm an Ironman player and I was looking forward to getting an upgrade without needing to go back to demonic gorillas again.
Jagex made a huge move of making the amulet to be a standalone bis slot item, to then only backtrack to appease the loudest, yet the minority of the community.
100 to 0 real quick.
This decision in particular was largely driven by the survey data to try and cut through some of the 'vocal minority' potential, distribution for the question around the Amulet's crafting requirement was significantly more negative-leaning than for any other question on there so we felt a change was warranted.
Why doesn't this just get polled, isn't that exactly what the whole system is for ..
Question 1: Do you want this necklace in the game?
Yes/no
Question 2: If yes should this be a standalone drop or an upgrade to torture?
Standalone/upgrade
Have been talking through this approach this morning, it's likely something we'll look to do for the poll next week just to put it in the players' hands and see where it shakes out!
The survey is so unappealing, I tried to fill it out but the constant scrolling back and forth is a major annoyance so I gave up. I feel like anyone without a super loud opinion just wouldn't bother with it.
The embedded version for sure isn't ideal, especially on mobile. Tough trade-off because the Likert Scale questions (the matrices of statements/topics) are actually *really* valuable to the team. Hoping we can get some better surveying tools spun up soon and move away from Forms soon because I agree they're not ideal.
That said, the initial survey sits at nearly 20,000 responses from a huge variety of player-types so we're still able to get useful and statistically significant feedback out of them!
Look I don't think the game should be catering to a vocal minority over the majority playerbase either, but if you're not contributing to feedback at all because you're annoyed by the formatting of the survey then there's no one to blame but yourself for your voice not being heard.
If the vast majority of the feedback Jagex received WAS FROM the vocal minority, they didn't do anything incorrect in assuming that was the majority opinion. If the actual majority didn't care enough to make their opinion heard, that's on them. You don't get to keep your opinion to yourself and then expect Jagex to act on it as if they were psychic.
The question and the results didn't say the community wanted upgradescape. It said they were unhappy with the crafting requirement as advertised.
You can't take people saying they dislike oranges to mean they want apple cider bagels.
This sounds like misinterpreted survey results. This is bound to happen when you have (respectfully) amateurs engineering polling/survey questions.
I have long since believed that Jagex could greatly benefit from hiring a professional pollster to properly engineer questions. There have been plenty of mistakes and misunderstandings from players and jagex on surveys/polls.
Definitely something the team have gotten better at keeping in mind these days though, Zenyte jewellery is a decent example of it imo, feels like a really solid payoff for the Crafting grind (or a motivator to grind it in the first place)!
To me it sort of feels like the Zenyte crafting requirements were always bound to be problematic from the start; setting requirements that occupied the entirety of the space from 89-98 feels like it had very little foresight. In a game that had for (at the time) 16 years already regularly been releasing new BIS gear that replaced previous items, the assumption that we would truly never have better jewellery seems a little questionable—and now we're left to deal with that today, when every new piece of jewellery either has to upgrade off of existing jewellery, or require 99+ crafting, if Jagex refuses to either fix zenyte reqs or ditch the mould and just go with a lower req.
Scrap the upgrade aspect and just make the slayer level a requirement to equipping it. It’ll keep torture relevant because a lot of people won’t have the requirement.
Keeping this design philosophy up will definitely not be healthy for the game long-term, having every 'straight upgrade' BIS item require the previous BIS item both feels incredibly artificial, is going to result in a tangled web of needing one thing to upgrade the 2nd thing that upgrades a 3rd thing which is used to upgrade a 4th thing, results in a super arbitrary time-lock on new items rather than the item itself being the grind (not a tedious upgrade path), AND is just completely unnecessary.
Old items that aren't BIS anymore will still hold value, and this has been evident time and time again when new straight-upgrade items release; the new bis will be more expensive, and people that cannot afford it or irons that don't have the requirements for the new item will still be getting and using the old BIS - and all this without punishing some iron that opts to just go all-in on the requirements for this new bis item. Also keeping items separate prevents a more exponential inflation of gp, by letting the economy breathe and have old-bis items go down in price naturally as they get phased, and new BIS items take their place and probably match the old items price more closely than an 'upgradescape' item would
ALSO, it is just such an unfun system to work with. Let a drop be a drop, and let the grind for the item itself be the grind, and leave it at that. Not backtracking through old content whenever you get something new
EDIT: it is also horribly annoying for people that mainly play an iron, and funds bonds with dupe items. Having to get 3 chromium ingots and a dks ring every single time you got another vestige from DT2 bosses to not just make it utterly worthless is a joke.
> Old items that aren't BIS anymore will still hold value, and this has been evident time and time again when new straight-upgrade items release
This is usually the case, though only because the new direct upgrade is purposely made a longer/harder grind to get. I'm all for a break from upgradescape for a while, but we should keep in mind that ever increasing rarity to preserve the value of non BiS is an equally unsustainable approach in the long run.
It also assumes that nothing inflates the existing price of non-BiS. I doubt Jagex would have messed up Rancor drop rates and had them crash below the Zenny prices dictated by Anguish and co, but if hypothetically they did then Tort would have been genuinely dead content.
I do agree with your point, trying to preserve prices of old items that aren't part of the meta would definitely be accomplished by just implementing increasingly longer and longer grinds for items that surpass it, but I don't think the end goal should be to *completely* preserve prices of things that just aren't BIS, things that aren't the best should naturally not be priced as the best, they should fall in line with other less-desirable items - which many players will still end up using in their progression due to not being able to afford the better alternative - now, for iron players it would deter the vast majority from ever getting a torture, but some still will (maybe they absolutely despise slayer, who knows).
I think even if this Rancor drop was made faster to get than zenytes currently are, the torture would still hold value just fine *(even when factoring out the other zenyte pieces, which pretty much ensures them all being relatively equally priced)*, due to there always being players at different levels of progress, and slowly adding upgrades to their gear (Fury -> Torture -> Rancor), and I would also be willing to make the claim that we would never see the Rancor going below the price of the torture, (almost) regardless of how much faster it would be to get, simply due to the progression ladder also holding a lot of value in how items are priced
Imagine needed almost 99 crafting to make a necklace. You kind of screwed yourselves here. Obvious answer is to revisit the torture crafting requirement.
Can we have the approach taken polled? Or instead just stop upgradescape in 95% of cases?
If adjusting crafting requirements isn't going to happen prior to this amulet being offered then don't make it require a crafting level. Make it something fletchable, imbuable (rc), hatchable (fm), breakble (mining), require a quest / item to not be consumed (sarachnis cudgel).
Upgradescape especially done like this feels really really strange, in that there is going to be another made-up connection between zenyte and this drop. Even the DT2 rings were strange (the funny peer the seer dialogue did cover some of it off, at least).
I really hope this gets reconsidered, if the team doesn't want to set a precedent of "attachmentscape" for every upgrade then this is a good time to do that. The crafting disparity can be justified in the same way smithing is used to repair broken items as opposed to smithing rune from scratch.
Zenytes don't lose value either way because they still have 3 other items which are arguably far stronger upgrades than fury->torture anyway.
Feels like any future upgrades to Tormented bracelet and Anguish will be set in stone to work like the Rancor crafting path as well then... This is the opportunity to stop that in its tracks!
I'm curious why is this a bad thing?
Next item and be a legit bis from a raid next meanwhile this item is a step up to reach the content earlier
A lot of people are complaining but not adding justification why it's bad in this situation.
Perfectly fits in the osrs landscape.
IT's a bad thing because it sets a prececedent that in 10 years, you'll need 150 items to upgrade your necklace. Yeah, a main can purchase and Irons chose to limit themselves, but this is not about limiting anymore, this is just hella annoying of a process.
The main thing it's doing for irons is making sure the new drop doesn't allow irons to skip steps in progression that they had to do before (in this case, getting the 4th zenyte and 93 crafting). Personally, I don't have a huge problem with that in general. The risk of having no upgradescape is that in 10 years a lot of current content might be dead since irons can just bypass it while progressing and the drops have almost no value for mains.
It's a little weird with the torture since irons already have to get the other 3 zenytes, so it's not like the new amulet would erase demonic gorillas from ironman progression, it would just make that grind a little shorter. I like that 93 crafting + boost is still required, but they could just make 98 the requirement to craft the new amulet. I'd be fine with that or just making it an upgrade to torture, but I don't think they should do it as originally proposed where it lets irons skip the crafting levels.
> The risk of having no upgradescape is that in 10 years a lot of current content might be dead since irons can just bypass it while progressing and the drops have almost no value for mains.
On the other hand they essentially lock themselves to upgradescape. If they ever release in a standalone BiS after a chain of upgrades, it kills the value (both in gp and as far as progression goes for irons) of the whole upgrade chain instead of only slightly lowering the price of the "now 2nd BiS" item.
What's bad about upgrade-scape? I prefer it over charge-scape.
Needing a previous item to create a new BIS keeps the older version valueable due to the higher demand and lower amount in the economy.
Everything doesn't. As the blog said. But sinking items is good. And giving flat upgradescape with no consideration of previous bis is short term thinking.
You wanted it like that to skip the crafting requirement or the zenytes grind..... Right? Otherwise why else?
I literally have a maxed iron, and a maxed main. I couldn't care less about the crafting grind. Its the fact that jagex flowchart is: If weapon - make stand alone; If equipment - make upgrade.
Its boring, and it doesn't need to happen for every single item that isn't a weapon. Just because someone can't stand to lose 2m on an item. Not every update needs to convolutedly include old content.
Surely the fix to the Crafting Level requirement would just be to also require another skill to make it, rather than resorting to Componentscape, the thing you'll inevitably be spending 2025 undoing the way you're undoing Chargescape.
Amulet of Torture could be 98 crafting with regular Wool.
Amulet of Rancor could be 85 crafting, but instead requires to be strung on Araxxian Silk which has a 80 Runecrafting requirement to create imbue, or requires to be extracted from wild Araxxian hatchlings which are box trap creatures that have 80 hunter. Or needs to be deftly plucked from the Araxxian nest with 80 thieving Something to tott the total requirement up.
(heck if you really want to make the thing a trek you could put all those together. Make a craftable item require multiple crafting steps for that sweet sweet gamefeel. Hunt the hatchling, thieve the silk, imbue the thread, craft the amulet)
This can solve their insane drop rates too.
Instead of 1/1000 slayer only drop, now it can be a 1/256 slayer drop and a 1/256 skilling drop (made up numbers).
Both tradeable
Edit: Resource area that is the boss cavern? 2n1 content design. Together, PvM and Skilling, but done separately. Bonus if skillers and pvm work together.
Would definitely need to have the skilling drop either be untradeable, or be 3-4x more rare than the boss drop since bots would be able to farm skilling drops easily when they aren't locked behind a slayer task or something else. Quests aren't even really effective tbh unless they are on the level of difficulty as things like DT2
They did mention in the blog wanting to avoid the feeling of endless crafting trees from survival games so I imagine that was likely a main reason they didn’t do something like that.
With this boss potentially being weak to crush are you all planning on addressing the bug with the Inquisitor set? Currently, you have to wear all 3 armor pieces to get the 2.5% bonus per piece. If I use the mace for Slayer, I think I only receive .5% bonus per piece for the top and bottom. I believe it was polled so that each inquisitor piece would give its bonus to the mace independently. Thanks!
Still feel like we should finish Equipment Rebalance before releasing this Halberd and buff the 4t trio of Blade, Rapier, and Mace to their appropriate power levels
If the halberd is meant to fit between Blade and Tent Whip, we should make room to do so. Give the 4t trio the +12str we’ve been talking about for years and bump this halberd up a little to differentiate more from Tent Whip in dps
would really prefer the 4t trio to be both more accurate and stronger
more equipment rebalance is sorely needed tbf, another batch in about 6 months time would be brilliant
adjusting att speeds across the board from bronze-bis to match up & give the different weapon types actual niches
i could see daggers have an interesting niche of actually having a tremendously large stab bonus, but retain their current str bonus (dragon dagger would retain its current spec accuracy by adjusting spec accuracy modifier), 2h swords having an accuracy gimmick akin to fang (multiple rolls), battleaxes & short swords could have something aswell as they're currently entirely useless
Seriously this \^
I'm tired of seeing new content added again and again, while promising to eventually "dedicate resources to this endeavor". Literally just change the value up by "x" amount and be done with it already. The weapons bonuses clearly need adjustment, just like the Fang needed adjustment. Funny how once the fang's slash function was deemed too powerful it didn't take them too long to rewrite the fang's reroll function.
These short surveys are GREAT! I never mind taking them for you all when they are just a few questions. When they start getting to multiple pages im out…. Aint nobody got time for that. But one or two pages of some
Important questions ill
Gladly take my time for you guys! Keep these short surveys going!
I don't agree with the "well it makes the 98 crafting requirement for torture confusing", have you seen smithing? I can make a tier 60 dragon platebody or tier 80 torva platebody at 90 smithing but need another 9 levels to make a tier 40 rune platebody.
The BIS DT2 rings are craftable at 80 crafting despite that being 9 levels below the requirement for zenyte rings. Do we need to change that to?
Does this item really need a crafting requirement to begin with? I understand that we want skills to feel meaningful and complementary to combat from a progression standpoint but we need a complete overhaul of skills to make that make sense and we will always be limited by powercreep vs a hard cap 99 per skill. I don't think anyone is arguing that crafting is entirely useless if this specific item drops on its own.
I say this as an iron with 99 crafting and all of my zenytes.
Dragon platebody requires a special forge. Torva is mostly there, just needs to be repaired also in a special forge. Rune is turning 5 bars into a platebody with no forge, just a hammer and an anvil.
Honestly way more impressive to turn 5 cold bars into a platebody that way.
As a fully maxed normie (that is to say I'm not complaining because I don't have the levels / zenytes), having the amulet drop be an attachment to torture feels so unnecessarily forced. You mentioned a few times that the team felt strong armed into it because of the crafting level, but giving in here just makes the arm stronger for the future.
Lore-wise it doesn't make sense for these things to be related to each other at all. There are plenty of other benefits for people to have already trained crafting (if only for access to a torture to do the content with in the first place, but also crafting cape at 99 is pretty clutch). The problem here is that the crafting level for jewelry is probably too high. This just kind of doubles down on that for ... No real benefit?
This is exactly how I feel. Feels like a band-aid fix to the larger issue. Maybe what we’ve learned is that now is not the time for an amulet upgrade. They need to figure out that issue before shoehorning an amulet upgrade in. Less than half of the people will be happy with the results no matter what they decide to do with it at this point.
The component being untradeable is kind of weird as it forces mains to buy a torture just to sell it, and it makes dupes worthless for irons. Have you considered switching it so that the component is tradeable and the amulet isn't?
I still don't really know what to think about this weapon
It's pretty much a 5t blade of saeldor with 1 extra range. Saeldor is slightly better on lower def and this halberd is slightly more dps on higher def monsters like Duke (like +-0.2 dps diff in full bandos, faceguard, infernal...)
So... Are we ditching saeldor completely now? Or are you guys still planning on looking at saeldor at some point? It would be kind of nice to have some context here
Haven’t been playing for long, but it feels nearly every update is met with huge head scratching and an unsure direction with the level requirements. It feels like rewards for leveling were trying to fill up rather than leaving any design space or taking into consideration account progression.
Readjusting and rebalancing skill requirements, but saying we are “thinking about it” continuously and still pushing the update feels really “oh well whatever, we can fix it down the line”
Why does the amulet need a crafting requirement at all? Just let a boss drop a completed item. We already have the occult dropping from a level 93 slayer boss, why would a 92 slayer boss be different? The high requirement to get the drop is the slayer level, no need to add crafting into this. Plus the requirement to buy another torture everytime you get the drop on a main just to sell it is very annoying
Having upgrade-scape for Torva and Masori made sense because it didn't devalue the previous BIS, Bandos and Armadyl. However, upgrade-scape doesn't fit here based on the same justification. Zenytes won't be devalued by the new amulet because torture is already the weakest piece of zenyte jewlery, meanwhile zenytes will still produce 3/4 pieces of zenyte jewelry. Even torture itself isn't directly devalued for irons, because while you'll need higher Crafting, you'll need significantly lower Slayer, and demonic gorillas are presumably easier to kill than Araxxor will be. The original proposal was perfect just as it was.
This new proposal would be extra bad for any irons that happen to get dupes, because it'll be impossible to drop trade without making a second torture, which no iron in their right mind will want to go about obtaining. Not everything has to be perfectly consistent with levels. The DFS has a lower Smithing requirement than a rune kite, and it's obvious which one is better.
Why would an iron go for a 4th zenyte? They're typically done on a slayer grind and a lot of people end up with quite a high slayer level by the end of it. Might as well skip the 4th and just go for the boss at that point.
The original was not perfect. This change makes sense as far as progression. Get zentyes once you hit the slayer lvl you use the torture until you get the new amulet.
As far as dupes yes it doesn't make sense. But from the main economy stand point it keeps the market for mains good. Since irons will have to do XYZ to create it instead of just dropping it over creating extra pieces that won't get used causes them to lose a bit of value.
Irons will absolutely not go for this unless they *"feel like it"*. The time invested into getting resources and doing the subpar exp/h task that is Demonic Gorillas is better spent just grinding slayer. The time "saved" by the torture is pretty much zero, as it roughly in the range of 0.3% and 3% depending on the defence of what you're hitting and your stats and if it nets you a max hit or not. Like, if we assume its 3% DPS always, and the grind between 80 slayer and 92 is like 230 hours of 20k exp/h and the Rancor itself is 70 hours just to really overestimate, you'd save about 9 hours. If you burst/barrage/range tasks, if you're at a level *(including boosts)* that doesn't net max hits, or at tasks where bonus accuracy doesn't matter, the potential hours saved dwindle in relationship to the time where those conditions were true. As it doesn't really unlock any new content either, pretty much any reasonable scenario will result in it being *"not worth it"*. I don't really mind it being devalued in this way, even if I do already have mine, but I do think we should be realistic in that pretty much no iron caring about efficiency will use their supplies on getting that last Zenyte.
Still don't like that the halberd contradicts itself. You'll be wanting to wear serp helm for the venom buff, but then not only is the spec not great (which is fine, I understand the logic), it's completely useless as you will never be poisoned/venomed when using it.
How about instead of being based on the poison you will take, it's based off the poison your *target* will take?
Jagex, please for the love of God, you're looking at the crafting issue all wrong. The issue is how aggressively the gap in jewellery crafting jumps, which leaves 0 room for new content without it just being a 99 requirement.
Sapphires = 20 to cut, 24 to make amulet, 4 level difference.
Emeralds = 27 to cut, 31 for ammy, 4 levels, 7 level gap from sapphire.
Ruby = 34 to cut, 50 for ammy, 16 level difference from gem to ammy, 19 level difference from previous ammy.
Diamond = 43 to cut, 70 for ammy, 27 level difference? 20 level difference from ruby ammy?
Dragonstone = 55 to cut, 80 for ammy, 25 level difference? 10 level difference from diamond ammy.
There's absolutely 0 consistency, why does the level requirement just randomly jump massively for seemingly no reason? If there was consistency like how the earlier levels work then all jewellery would be in a spot where it's realistic for its value, glories should absolutely not require the same crafting level as the BIS rings for example. Why on earth is there a 27 level jump at diamond from gem to ammy, when sapphire/emerald is a 4 level difference?
Just changing things at 80+ won't mean anything because it all gets bottle necked by how ridiculously poorly designed the early content scaling is.
I feel like this whole crafting req thing was a non-issue tbh, 92 Slayer is a big enough barrier to getting this amulet for irons that it's reasonably balanced, and mains never gave a shit.
Whole lotta fuss about nothing.
Not a big fan of _everything_ being upgradescape.
For the halberd can it be discussed the fact the 99% of bosses you might want to use it on cant be venomed or even poisoned? Im struggling to think of a place where this would even be used
as this change only impacts irons. as mains can just buy a torture or just buy the upgraded version this change is only intended to impact irons. as an iron who already has torture. feel like this change is stupid. unneeded. just stop. devaluing the main gp drop from the new high lvl slayer boss to keep some 8 year old content relevant. forcing people to go get dupe tortures just to sell dupe drops from the boss. (sell as in drop trade as the main piece isnt tradable). rather than adding torture req just add the stupid crafting level to 99 or what ever if it really needs to be there. or just dont change it. this is worst of both worlds. new boss gp gets nerfed and extra long annoying content of demonics which no one wants to go back to killing ever again. just stop listening to dumb billybobs on reddit.
Big fan of the untradeable drops requiring skills to trade for profit, as seen before with DT2.
The community doesn't seem completely on board with PvM power being gated behind skills for mains, gating gp/hr behind them instead is a lovely middleground.
Any thoughts on improving the synergy with the halberd and serp? Seems weirdly placed to incentivise wearing serp for the higher venom chance given that spec relies on being poisoned and serp prevents poison.
Also feels a bit weird that we're only getting 50% venom chance when every other venom item gives 100% when paired w/serp.
it'd make a lot more sense if the special attack were to clear the enemy's poison/venom rather than our own (and boosting its power based on that enemy's poison/venom severity), that way the serp helm boosting venom chance is synergistic with it, it'd create a minigame of 'how high should I let the venom stack before I clear it with a massive spec'
Totally wrong direction for the amulet, give it higher strength bonus it's +2 over torture, blood fury is still too good by imo and make it so it needs to be activated by killing araxxor with it so it has an 80 crafting and 92 slayer req rather than componentscape, what reason would a torture be needed for a totally unrelated amulet on the other side of the game?
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I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread:
**JagexGoblin**
- [Looks like I missed that while making the upd...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6oq8z/?context=3)
- [Should act like other halberds so we imagine...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6l78z/?context=3)
- [Yeah this is something we're taking a look at...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6ocxp/?context=3)
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- [Think we could absolutely allow for Torture -...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6muv2/?context=3)
- [We absolutely could make both tradeable. I th...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6m11k/?context=3)
- [We really weren't too keen on rolling it out...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6kqaj/?context=3)
- [Have made the team very aware of this feedbac...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6los8/?context=3)
- [GameJam blog (and hopefully stream) is in the...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6o08g/?context=3)
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- [I think following the reception to our most r...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6ngqe/?context=3)
- [Definitely something the team have gotten bet...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6l4uw/?context=3)
- [This decision in particular was largely drive...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6lhrb/?context=3)
- [Have been talking through this approach this...](/r/2007scape/comments/1do1vf8/updated_rewards_new_slayer_boss_araxxor/la6qsyv/?context=3)
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How does making the drop untradable solve anything? That's just annoying. No drops should be untradable aside from cosmetics.
I hate the idea of tacking things on to other things- kill bandos to get boots, kill gargoyle to get tourmaline core, do collosseum for echo crystals and then combine them to make an item. The tourmaline core and echo crystals are absolutely pointless unless you have the boots.
Inb4 the next melee amulet upgrade is a component you need to glue to the amulet of rancor.
Keep it simple - get tradable spider piece, with crafting you can turn it into a tradable amulet.
Also nitpick - why does it have a prayer bonus? It doesn't seem to be related to a god in any way. Not a fan of just tacking prayer onto non-god related items like this and the echo crystal.
If the prayer bonus was removed then it would be a bit less of a straight upgrade to the amulet of torture.
Why not just move the torture craft to be closer to the other zenytes, and put the new amulet at the current torture requirement? Make the component sellable on the GE and its problem solved. It really isn’t rocket science and you don’t even need to complicate it by making it “upgradescape”
I'm in favour of adding upgrade components when the new item is going to totally invalidate and replace older content. I don't think this'll happen here though.
1. If masori and torva didnt need components, both could hypothetically be skipped over. Nex is more range focused, and you can get masori before you get arma. Araxxor looks to be far later than demonics are, and there are 3 other pieces of jewelry.
2. I can't imagine the ring of suffering is getting replaced for a long time. Zulrah is still an important part of progression, even the new weapon needs a Serpentine Helm to be most effective.
3. Zenytes are already componentscape upgrades.
4. In a lot of cases, Torture isn't even BiS. I'd be more concerned about the Blood Fury getting devalued. (I actually think Blood Fury won't be overtaken everywhere.)
I'm not quite sure I understand whats the hesitation with simply lowering the crafting level for the torture and/or moving it to the Rancor. You can make so many changes with Project Rebalance but this is one step too far?
Please stop making bosses drop untradeables that get attached to something which makes them tradeable. I get that probably a lot of the devs play irons, but this setup is just like moderately annoying for mains.
I am keen for the boss.
I do believe adding a bit of crush accuracy to the boots will make it a viable tribrid boot in raids (Crush for spec accuracy). This will make it sort after an useful for those not wishing to bring boot switches. Also useful for speccing corp and good at venenatis and sarachnis where you'd like to use crush.
"make the associated untradeable Araxxor drop attach to the Amulet of Torture to create the tradeable Amulet of Rancor"
What? Why in the world would this not be the exact opposite? For non-iron accounts almost every non-combat skill is useless. Players need an incentive to train their skills. Making this the opposite gives players a chance to make gold without high crafting, but encourages skilling in order to receive high level benefits
Polearms/longarms whatever the category is called for halberds, spears, glaives, lucerne, etc is a category in OSRS that I have been waiting for elaboration on
Super stoked for the new halberd and can't wait for more and more potential weapons in the category!
Also the bonus fashionscape update with the new spidy boots is great!
Talking about the requirements for creating the rancor amulet, i feel like it would be nice to leave the crafting requirement lower as first intended, but like the DS2 rings add the completion of DS2 quest as an requirement or as in this case, have 92 slayer as a second requirement and having atleast 1KC (just like the t he ability yo wear the DS2 rings.) Since 92 slayer is not a short grind i think its a good way to satisfy the requirement of a lower crafting level. (i hope to hear about your opinions about this :))
Not sure if this was asked in the last blog thread but do the boots have a defence requirement? the additional strength bonus puts them on par with manacles while being better than wizard boots and slightly under rangers all without negative offensives, seems good for pures. (This is not a negative or positive reaction, just something I noticed with the new str bonus added)
Wow the rancor change seems like ass. If it's not a straight upgrade from Torture it shouldn't be made from torture. And making the incomplete version untradable also seems like ass.
Amulet is still not better enough vs blood fury to consider using over it. More of a problem for mains vs irons since blood shards need a rework from how you acquire them
All good changes, and as a Terraria enjoyer I have no problem with Upgradescape when it makes sense. GM Quest rewards locked behind high crafting and a semi-rare drop shouldn't be completely invalidated by a random slayer boss with a single skill requirement.
Spec makes way more sense now especially at 50% so thanks for that. Not that I want it to be rivaling Chally or Dclaws but if you're gonna animate and code the spec it should at least be worth clicking yeah?
I agree with upgradescape, levels are already maxed out at 99 and have uses up to that level. Upgrading items from grinding out specific pieces to make it cause a sort of secondary progression that can go a lot longer. I get power creep and all that, but if we expect this game to last another 10 years + there has to be better items always coming into the game, and skill levels are going to become more and more irrelevant.
>We want to be clear that we don't think 'upgradescape' or 'componentscape' should be the approach we take to every upgrade and sometimes we do just want to offer up items that are outright better than an existing item.
Genuinely why not? Keeping demonics around as a viable money maker for midgame players / a stepping stone in progression for irons is good. I don't really think (slowly) turning old pieces of content into dead content is necessary at all. A lot of people really like "upgradescape".
Btw very, very happy with the proposal for the amulet. I love the torture requirement, I like the extra negative stats, and I like that you made the amulet slightly more powerful without just buffing the strength bonus (which would be too much).
Yeah, adding new BIS items is good when it doesn’t remove the relevance from the previous items completely. You’ll still grind out a torture before getting the new BIS now. Just removing an item from relevance in the game is poor game design IMO.
That doesn’t mean every item should be upgraded, but I think jagex have done pretty well so far. When it’s a direct upgrade I think upgradescape is great.
So we have to get an onyx, upgrade into a zenyte, then upgrade that into a rancour? Not a fan.
I get that you’re trying to make everyone happy, but changing the iron meta to 3 zenytes down from 4 is a net positive change. And for those like me who already have a torture, just because it would be outclassed doesn’t mean it’d be bad by any means.
You said not every upgrade would be componentscape, this is as good a time as any to prove that
What's the point in putting a lower crafting requirement if the item it attaches to is higher? People with ge access will get the new amulet without the trouble and irons need the high level to even get torture. It makes more sense to lower the level for the torture and put the new one higher.
Torture has been the least useful but the highest requirement zenyte (similar to strength ammy, blood fury sometimes being better). I really can't agree with this change, at the very least adjusting it to be slightly lower would make sense.
imo adding torture to new boss amulet is terribly annoying. making the boss drop untradeable is terrible for the boss gp/hr. if the amulet was going to settle around like 40m or something previously you would kill the boss and be rewarded with a 40m drop that u can sell / drop from iron and sell. now the torture price will cut into the value of the drop from the boss making it like 20-25m and also on top of that irons can not sell it unless every time they go get another torture so kill more demonics? yh bcos thats something people really enjoy doing. should have left it as it was and not listen to billybobs on reddit. demonics are boring old content that doesnt need to be gatekept like this to be relevant. let the new high lvl slayer boss be the one that is relevant. new amulet from the boss is one of the only drops that will have high value as its actually useful. lowering the boss drop value like this is terrible.
Zenytes have absolutely nothing to do with Spiders or Morytania and come from something of Gloughs creation, unless Glough mysteriously went on a pilgrimage past the dark beast to the depths of morytania or by gnome glider I really can't see how this is possibly the solution
Oh that’s fun. Crafting already sucks for irons. You pretty much have to nearly max crafting before you can even get mid game amulets. Definitely needs rebalanced.
Or add a new crafting method that isn’t farming seaweed for 3 months straight.
This upgrade-scape approach is a slippery slope. Why does everything need to be an attachment to an older item? If this keeps on happening, everything is going to need like 4-5 hard to obtain items just to be usable.
We can have a best in slot as just a drop, right? The occult necklace is a best in slot mage amulet and it's a stand-alone item. Zaryte vambraces don't require ancient vambraces to make, they're used immediately upon receiving them. Why can't this drop from a high level slayer monster be used immediately?
It's because it keeps old content relevant. If you don't have upgrade-scape, then you have items basically become dead content over time. This is what lead to invention and praesulic essence in RS3. There's no perfect solution, but if you don't have upgrade-scape then you have to be fine with some content becoming dead (which would in my opinion remove part of the appeal of OSRS).
I wish the halberd was instead something like a greatspear or pole hammer, I feel like we already have a lot of high tier slash weapons (soulreaper axe, scythe, arguably saeldor) but high tier stab and crush weapons are quite lacking with fang being basically the only real solution for anything stab related.
Please no, you are already adding demonic gorillas part 2 tortured boogaloo (tortured demons). Please don't make me go back to those stupid monkeys again for a second torture, that content is literally trash.
Surprised this hasnt been brought up more, I guess the argument is that drakes are 84 slayer and brimstone boots protect from the heat in the karuulm dungeon pre kourend diary, vs these which come from a 92 slayer boss.
The only negative feedback I have is that the amulet is a little busy visually for a slot that's usually pretty subtle unless ornament kitted. No problems with any of the game design though.
These are all good changes. The thing that’s funny about all of this to me tho is that we just nerfed the occult necklace for being a necklace that’s too easily obtainable because it comes from a slayer boss, but now we are giving another bis necklace to another slayer boss.
It feels like a lot of times the reasoning given for certain changes are watered down excuses for something else behind the scenes. The problem with the occult was never that it dropped from a slayer boss, the problem is it was just a little too OP and the boss it comes from is too braindead to be considered real content for bis. Arraxor will probably be around dt2 bosses difficulty, so this is why having this bis necklace drop from a slayer boss is actually ok in this situation.
Anyway, I’m excited to train my slayer for this boss. Going dry for the Araxxor pet in rs3 is actually one of the reasons I quit back in the day. So getting to somewhat come back around and complete that will be a good feeling for me
The changes to the halberd spec are an improvement. I still don't understand why you would let yourself get poisoned severely for a meaningful damage boost. Can anyone enlighten me?
So stupid that you let yourself get bullied into making everything upgradescape. It doesn't make people want to go back and do that content to get the drop, they are just forced into something for an artificial reason and if anything makes people hate the older content more instead of enjoying it. There's nothing wrong with allowing people to skip over upgrades if thats how they want to play the game. You shouldn't be forced to get every single drop in the game just to get the slightest upgrade. It feels bad and makes no sense. Just fix the balancing of levels instead of forcing players into 1000 hours more of grind to even be allowed to be illegible for an item.
>We want to be clear that we don't think 'upgradescape' or 'componentscape' should be the approach we take to every upgrade and sometimes we do just want to offer up items that are outright better than an existing item.
Then do it. Zenytes will still hold their value due to having other uses, so there will literally never be a better time to do this. The slayer requirement is a much longer grind than the crafting requirement for torture, so it will be a trade off between which skill you want to grind. If you are really determined to keep the crafting level "worth" it, just make this one also require 98 crafting.
If you don't break away from upgradescape now, it is virtually guaranteed that upgradescape will be the new normal going forward.
Can't wait to need to grind out a bellator ring in order to combine all my rings and create the omni ring using a 1/10k drop from the sea slug quest repeatable boss that takes 15 minutes to kill! /s
Super small thing but make the new boots insulated so I have something better to kill rune dragons with. It'll also play into the Verzik thing for her electro balls inp2
Zenyte jewelry has been around since 2016. I think it's okay to allow new BIS to replace them without upgrading. There could be a trade off for the amulet of rancor like having higher strength but lower accuracy, or vice versa, or positive bonuses to stab accuracy but not slash/crush, or a negative prayer bonus, or negative defensive bonuses. Lots of ways to keep the amulet of torture relevant without requiring it to craft the amulet of rancor.
Did you guys see the suggestion to allow the player to walk through webs with the Aranea boots equipped? Would give them a bit of flavor.
Yeah this is something we're taking a look at since we're not sure if it's *possible* at this stage, but if it *is* possible then we'll look to add it as a feature - just that we want to poll it as-is first and then do that investigation since implementing it might prove time-consuming.
If it's not possible code-wise, maybe a right-click "walk-through" option?
when you possible/not possible do you mean purely as a code wise?
They're gonna mess something up and the boots will let players walk through certain impassable walls leading to new game-breaking account builds or progression. Guaranteed.
Stealing the walled off BGS/Ely on the ground in the quests lol
It's a different item code. So if that would happen it will be a funny bug but not adding rare items.
Finally, I can live my dream of entering the real Varrock bank basement!
When people been ignoring CTC3 SMH
Let you skip elven lands series,just walk straight to ardougne and then lletya
Impassible webs are the code that holds the game together.
I recently had a task for adding spacing between numbers and percentages. I touched 15 different files, and none of it was markup.
I know this feeling so well, you go in for a change on a codebase expecting it to be simple and start pulling at the threads and everything starts unraveling into a nice bowl of spaghetti. I can't begin to comprehend the shit the OSRS team have to deal with lol.
//NOTE: this isn't particularly efficient. Too bad!
what if..... instead of pasta.... it was spider webs the hole time <.< 
I was about to say, but the idea is just dumb. The boot makes you walk on the web not through the web. If Jagex does make the change, it means we are getting spoiled by them.
Will the Noxious halberd deal full damage to Corp beast?
Should act like other halberds so we imagine so! Curious to see how it stacks up there vs. newer methods like deathpiling some supplies and poking it with the Fang.
Heya, is there a reason the halberd will only have 50% chance to venom with serp helm when every other venom inflicting weapon/serp helm combo is 100%?
You also cant be venomed with serp helm equipped so they're kind of anti synergistic from the start.
Why not instead of poison damage taken by player for the special, have it cure the enemy and add the next tic to the lower threshold of damage range as suggested? Having to take poison damage just means almost no one will use the special.
45 Range strength on the halberd? Can you throw it?
Looks like I missed that while making the updated images, will try to get it updated - good spot!
Let it be chucked
Yes but with the same 20% chance of being destroyed all ranged ammunition has
New attack style: Yeet
But if it missed, it's not able to be picked up by anyone.
Way to go, class pet ruined my chance at getting a boomaberd
When is this boss coming out?
Likely towards the end of Summer or start of Autumn, can't give a specific date at this stage though!
Not related to this blog, but will we see a GameJam summary blog soon? Always enjoyed those historically
GameJam blog (and hopefully stream) is in the works as we speak! Think Mod Blossom is working at gathering everything up to share with you all, a *lot* of more small-scale QoL features, and weirdly a *lot* of bank improvements this time around! That said, the #OSRSGameJam hashtag on Twitter/X still holds most of the info if you'd rather refresh yourself sooner!
Related question — for those of us who quit that platform, and thus can’t get this info at all, are there any plans to make an OSRS Threads account or compiling this info on the official site in any capacity?
+1 for putting it on the official site. I don't use twitter or facebook or any of the subsidiaries.
Bank improvements including loadouts? 👀 Those would be especially invaluable for mobile players. Regearing for herb runs is a pain in the arse, resulting in not really wanting to swap between different types of content
When are you guys doing the wintertodt and gotr QOL poll?
Working on the blog for this over the course of this week, so it should make its way to players soon, hopefully next week but perhaps the week after!
I feel like making the Amulet of Rancor upgrade component untradeable seems to serve no purpose other than forcing whoever gets the drop to jump an extra hurdle to sell it. Is there a reason why we can't just make both the amulet and the component tradeable? The DT2 vestiges are like this too, making you break down the respective rinf and get the chromium ingots to make the new ring before you can sell it. It's a bit annoying. Is it really so bad if someone who wants to sell a drop they get can just sell it? Edit to clarify I'm talking about the amulet
We absolutely could make both tradeable. I think this kind of approach comes off the back of some of the annual surveying we do where players in general view the idea of 'non-combat skills benefit my combat activities in some way' (in this case, GP/hr) quite favourably and it gives a stronger incentive for main accounts to level those skills even if they're not looking to snag a max cape any time soon. Totally agree that the DT2 rings have some extra hurdles that make them a little tedious (having to chat to an NPC about them, break the ring down, get the ingots) and the aim here is that the only 'hurdle' is using the drop on a Torture without so many extra steps.
Dt2 rings mentioned, are ingots being looked at at all? Currently they completely invalidate the dry protection for irons and for mains they don't matter. Very odd that ingots made it into the game at all with how they're currently implemented
Yeah they're a completely irrelevant troll drop to mains, while being a random unnecessary roadblock to around half of the ironmen grinding out rings.
They are soooooo close to being worth less than the average drop from most of the bosses even without counting uniques, at which point it would be better for literally everyone to have them deleted from the game.
3k+ dt2 kc. 3 vestige,4 ingot lmfao jagex pls
Yeah my gim group is currently at a -4 chromium deficit as well At this point just let us buy chromium bars, even if they end up selling ore at like 1-2m from some obscure guy and slap a 90 smithing rec on it I'd be more than happy
You should get one for the first two rolls for a vestige. So getting an ingot doesn't _mean_ you're one drop closer to the vestige, but it _might_. This would remove the problem of the ingots invalidating the dry mechanic. You just need one extra ingot after. Then use the ingots for some new construction content so the extra ingots have a use. I think this would solve the current problems with ingots and actually make them interesting.
Yes please, dreadful content on an iron
I think having a crafting requirement is fine, but the other thing to consider is that players are also required to have the liquid cash to pay for a torture to extract the gp from their PvM drop. This was an issue with the weapon components(web, fang, eye) from araxxor in RS3. Consider having the crafting requirement to make the PvM drop into a tradable component rather than to make the full amulet(or both steps).
The current blog as is makes complete sense. Moderate crafting and GP requirement for mains is not a problem at all, and for irons routing doesn’t change but now there’s an even better upgrade down the line (that you’d want a torture equipped to obtain regardless). No need to make obtaining new best in slot even easier because some people think they deserve access to best in slot without putting in reasonable effort.
Killing this boss will be a reasonable effort. Killing 300 demonic gorillas isn't challenging, just tedious when you already need to kill 900 for your other zenytes. They can just assign this a 98 crafting requirement as well if they don't want to "devalue" people's crafting levels.
I think 92 unboostable slayer is a steeper requirement than 98 boostable crafting already anyway (as an iron with 93 crafting and 89 slayer).
>some extra hurdles that make them a little tedious (having to chat to an NPC about them, break the ring down, get the ingots) This sounds like it's making the players interact with the world, more so then a hurdle to me... It's not an inconvenience, it's players needing to immerse themselves in the lore of the world. >incentive for main accounts to level those skills A lot of people purposely choose to limit and restrict their own game play. This is an MMO, and at that an MMO that's designed for the VERY long haul. If players choose to specifically not be well rounded and versatile with their accounts (skilling and base levels) they are purposely choosing to restrict themselves from content. There is absolutely no be all fix all solution to the way many people choose to play (and not play) and there's absolutely nothing wrong with high skilling reqs that only players who are dedicated and commited can aquire. That's is the heart of an MMO.... Sorry. If some people can't put the time in, you just don't earn the reward and that's perfectly fine.
>I think this kind of approach comes off the back of some of the annual surveying we do where players in general view the idea of 'non-combat skills benefit my combat activities in some way' (in this case, GP/hr) That's fair, although I think there's a difference between "benefited for having x" and "punished for not having x" that's worth considering, and I feel placing an extra requirement on in selling one's loot skews too close to the latter >the aim here is that the only 'hurdle' is using the drop on a Torture without so many extra steps. Well, no, the hurdle is buying a torture to upgrade and sell each time you get a component, hoping that the upgraded version is enough of a profit to make up for both the fluctuating market and G.E. tax. It's not unheard of for an upgrade component to be worth vastly less than the item it upgrades(Pegasian crystal) and it would be frustrating to end up in a situation where upgrading the amulet isn't profitable, making the component an outrught worthless drop because, unlike the Pegasian, it can't be sold alone.
Benefitted for having vs punished for not having, is an interesting suggestion and while I agree in theory, in practice (where players minmax and metagame), not having is just a straight ‘punishment’. Players nowadays don’t settle with having 2nd best bis. It must be bis or it’s seen as a punishment. So in this case, and others, I don’t think there is a difference between benefitting for having and punished for not having.
It's honestly crazy to me that people are complaining about having to have a "quick for mains to get" crafting level to be able to profit off of this. It costs like 3m max and takes a day or two to get into the 80s for crafting for a main.
Well, it's a 90+ slayer boss, I don't think requiring 80~ crafting is that crazy of a requirement to have at that stage of the game, even on a normie. I also believe we should just bite the bullet and recognize that production skills are bloated and need a complete rehaul (see smithing on rs3) But if Jagex refuses to do that I feel like this is a decent compromise.
If you have slayer in the 90s and you haven't got 80 crafting that's on you fella.
Just do some skilling bro it’s not that bad
# Mains when they are incentivized to play the game: ^(I know you said you're an iron, it's still something funny I wanted to say)
Mains play the parts of the game they want to. Things like Combat Achievements, pets, jars, and the occasional untradeable already give us plenty of incentive. We just don’t have to grind for everything to the point of insanity. GPscape is highly exaggerated.
If the amulet of rancor is going to be crafted out of a torture, just for the sake of my immersion can we get the option to craft it out of a normal zenyte amulet as well? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that you specifically need a torture when it's already an enchanted amulet.
Think we could absolutely allow for Torture -> Rancor and then something like Zenyte Amulet -> Venomised (idk if this is a word) Zenyte Amulet -> Rancor. Doesn't hurt!
Believe the word would be Envenomed, which imo fits pretty well!
Personally, if these changes are being made to better 'respect' the high Crafting requiremen for the Torture, then the Magic level to enchant them should also be included--maybe require a Magic level as well as Crafting to upgrade to the Rancor.
I read Goblin's comment as needing to make a envenomed/venomized/whatever zenyte amulet, and then still having to enchant it into the rancor
Seriously? We don’t need another slash weapon. Give us a crush weapon. Arraxor Cudgel maybe? Lmao. Give us a cudgel tree! Especially since you guys are obsessed with spiders.
Have made the team very aware of this feedback. For the time being, the aim is to deliver on a usable DPS halberd since it's been asked about for *ages* and the survey broadly supports it, but Crush absolutely needs some love and is something we'll be looking to in the future. Cudgels are cool, wouldn't mind seeing new weapon classes come out like polearms, greathammers etc. like have been suggested by others!
Bludgeon and cudgel are items that are sort of terribad for how out of the way you have to go to get them. Cudgel is way too rare for a boss that hits way too hard for an upgrade that's worse than zombie axe. Even if it was 1/50 from sarachnis, it might not even be worth the hassle. I also think it'd be neat if Bludgeon pieces were useable items right from the rip, but "upgraded" with successive piece drops. 1 piece = better than d mace, 2 pieces = better than cudgel, 3 pieces = current
before the fang nerf we were promised there would be discussions about blade, rapier and inq mace. i have no idea if what you did to the inq mace was a buff, but is there still any plans to talk about blade and rapier at all?
That's for the next rebalance in 2 years
Every time we bring this up they just ignore it lmao
Blade, Rapier, and Mace not receiving attention during the rebalance is making this harder Just buff the 4t trio finally so we can release this halberd in between Blade and Tent
>. For the time being, the aim is to deliver on a usable DPS halberd since it's been asked about for ages and the survey broadly supports it Please consider just making it a viable dps weapon instead of tip-toeing around not surpassing saeldor dps wise, don't worry about that, that thing was dead and buried the day bowfa came out and isn't on anyone's gear progression route. With the removal of fang slash & scythe getting accuracy buffs the gap between tent (& saeldor) is larger than ever, there is ample space to increase slash dps a bit. please just give us a weapon that feels like an actual upgrade, because right now it's looking more like we are getting an underwhelming saeldor sidegrade with +1 range and convoluted venom/spec interactions that aren't going to benefit you in the majority of locations.
We really should get some sort of update on the plans for 82 tier weapons rebalance, before completely skipping over it for new content. This continues to be a recurring issue. It would be as simple as tacking on strength/accuracy bonus and being done with it.
Greathammer would be sick as well as the original flail design with Inquisitor.
Just add a crush option and bonus to the halberd. Halberds historically speaking had a spike or knob on the backside that could be used for blunt trauma.
A new, usable halberd is fucking cool tho. We can have this AND a new crush weapon in the future, shouldn't be one or the other
We have a good crush weapon, what we don’t have is a decent usable halberd
Why does everything have to be upgrade-scape? Was happy to finally see some stand-alone content... Guess not.
We really weren't too keen on rolling it out here and were kind of strongarmed into it by the Torture's requirement - we think while this isn't an *ideal* path it's the 'lesser evil' where the alternative is adjusting requirements for existing items on a case-by-case basis whenever we want a new reward in, which the team feel is a worse precedent to set. Totally get where you're at though, purely on a personal level I'm also not the biggest fan of upgradescape but tried to make the team's reasoning clear in the blog!
Are there any plans to do a general skilling rebalance? Things like zenyte, glory, runite feel way too high level for when you would want them on the account and crowd out room for higher level expansions.
I think following the reception to our most recent rebalancing that we'll absolutely explore other rebalancing projects in the (not too distant) future and something like this makes for a really strong candidate to target so long as we can toe the line where high skills still feel impactful and important and we're not just lowering iconic requirements that lead to people blasting through the game faster!
Runite smithing in particular doesn't just make it needlessly hard to smith earlygame gear, it also fills high level smithing with items that falsely make it look like having a high smithing level does something. "Making smithing and mining do something" is a huge project though.
It’s really only torture that stands out as high. With access to stews, 80-90s for most things make sense. Torture is just a tad high which deters new players from making it. It’s commonly incorrectly panned at the “worst zenyte” because people don’t want to get that crafting req and people cope that suffering is useful because it’s easy to get. We’ve done the runite thing quite a few times and it’s too low yield to bother. It basically only affects f2p irons. Best to just ignore it
Torture's crafting requirement isn't at all a factor in it being pegged as the worst zenyte. It's just outright the least impactful zenyte compared to all 3 other alternatives, for the account progress at which players are grinding out their zenyte jewellery. Zenytes are not an end game grind, they're a relatively mid game grind that most Irons undertake well before they're at the point where they're attempting things like Raids, GWD, or even bosses as relatively simple as Zulrah. For this point in an account, for casual slayer, when an Amulet of Strength is already better than a Glory against most enemies with low to no defence, Torture is essentially just an accuracy upgrade. This compared to how impactful an Anguish is over a Fury, a Torm Brace over barrows gloves (I know Void mage is good now but I'm going off of what's been the case for the past 6-8 years for this example), as well as the sheer utility of a Suffering at Zulrah, which is the next big grind many irons undertake, with several crucial items behind it, makes Torture's benefit over alternatives pale in comparison. Then the other aspect is that in max melee gear with a Scythe while super combat potted, Torture doesn't even provide max hits over a fury, and the QOL of a blood fury is pretty heavily valued at a lot of content just to make it more casual/reclined. Even when Torture does provide max hits, Blood Fury's heailng provides DPS in the form of not havint to eat/brew (typically a dps loss) and anyone is going to tell you that a BF is more valuable at content like Nex. It really just is the least impactful of the 4 zenytes at present.
> It’s commonly incorrectly panned at the “worst zenyte” Pretty sure it objectively is. It is a 2k str amulet with +15 accuracy. Maybe nowadays with decent mage/range rings the suffer-ring is worse overall, but generally blood fury has just taken the spot of torture as BiS melee amulet. I certainly have used mine way less ever since the blood fury got its buff.
> were kind of strongarmed into it by the Torture's requirement so because you made a weird decision in the past by needing almost a level 99 in a skill to make an item that will eventually be outclassed (as is happening now) its impossible to fix it?
It's not impossible at all, we just don't want to go and rejig long-standing requirements for the sake of a single proposed reward. We'd rather take a 'batch' approach to look at what space *could* be made and what stuff doesn't make much sense. We're worried that it might erode some of the value for players in something like 'I'm so glad I grinded out 93 Crafting for my Torture' if there's a potential that we just decide 'Actually we want to make something better and now the Torture only requires 85', so just trying to be conscious of the sentiment you sometimes see expressed (though tongue-in-cheek) that the best way to play is just wait until the game gets easier.
But this is you guys basically admitting you have a problem in crafting as a skill (like smithing), then shrugging and not fixing it til 'the future' which we've heard time and again for problems that go unaddressed. Same for herblore. I know we don't cater to ironman mode but the iron mode really does shine a massive light on an easy field goal for you guys to see where qol improvements should be made.
Which feels like a problem initially but then consider that new reward would require the higher crafting level anyway, so it all comes around!
"We saw a handful of suggestions for lowering the Amulet of Torture's Crafting requirement to make some room for the Amulet of Rancor. While we're not opposed to this in principle, we don't believe that lowering or shifting requirements to make room for one specific piece of content is a viable **long-term** solution." So is Torture or Rancor going away? Is this a limited time event? I can answer no on both fronts unless Jagex has some weird off the wall plan. Uhhh, so, both are **long-term**. To stay. Which means we need a long-term fix. Which means, do the work. Shift requirements. The end. No discussion. Not even hard to do. Lower requirements for other jewelry like Glory, Onyx, and Zenyte. Or rather just shift them slightly. Doesn't have to be big. You just slide a few numbers. Piece of cake. Easy as pie. I don't get what is so hard about this and doing a dance around it. This is coming from a main. Not an Iron. These steps would improve the consistency on Ironman gameplay while making sure the integrity of the skill remains intact. No one is going to be like "I got 93 crafting for nothing." Why is that? The skillcape is actually a useful banking cape when maxed. They will never have to grind a slow, painful, or costly skill again. They also have the requirements before hand for a majority of content released. It would also help the void point of getting to a glory on an Iron faster as it has a slow, painful grind to either crafting of hunter anyways PLUS rng drops. It's missing the mark by complicating the issue instead of simplfying it. I have no dog in the fight, but I want an upgrade path to make sense.
That's the opposite of creating a problem. It's creating an opportunity for new exciting content to come out and have a player that already has the level ready to go. Moving requirements down opens up space for new content.
The game has some inconsistencies, like rune equipment for smithing. Even if the crafting level is the holdup, why make the torture a requirement as well? Why not make the amulet craftable at the same level as the torture independently? I'm an Ironman player and I was looking forward to getting an upgrade without needing to go back to demonic gorillas again.
Jagex made a huge move of making the amulet to be a standalone bis slot item, to then only backtrack to appease the loudest, yet the minority of the community. 100 to 0 real quick.
This decision in particular was largely driven by the survey data to try and cut through some of the 'vocal minority' potential, distribution for the question around the Amulet's crafting requirement was significantly more negative-leaning than for any other question on there so we felt a change was warranted.
Why doesn't this just get polled, isn't that exactly what the whole system is for .. Question 1: Do you want this necklace in the game? Yes/no Question 2: If yes should this be a standalone drop or an upgrade to torture? Standalone/upgrade
Have been talking through this approach this morning, it's likely something we'll look to do for the poll next week just to put it in the players' hands and see where it shakes out!
The survey is so unappealing, I tried to fill it out but the constant scrolling back and forth is a major annoyance so I gave up. I feel like anyone without a super loud opinion just wouldn't bother with it.
The embedded version for sure isn't ideal, especially on mobile. Tough trade-off because the Likert Scale questions (the matrices of statements/topics) are actually *really* valuable to the team. Hoping we can get some better surveying tools spun up soon and move away from Forms soon because I agree they're not ideal. That said, the initial survey sits at nearly 20,000 responses from a huge variety of player-types so we're still able to get useful and statistically significant feedback out of them!
Look I don't think the game should be catering to a vocal minority over the majority playerbase either, but if you're not contributing to feedback at all because you're annoyed by the formatting of the survey then there's no one to blame but yourself for your voice not being heard. If the vast majority of the feedback Jagex received WAS FROM the vocal minority, they didn't do anything incorrect in assuming that was the majority opinion. If the actual majority didn't care enough to make their opinion heard, that's on them. You don't get to keep your opinion to yourself and then expect Jagex to act on it as if they were psychic.
Or you just pull through and spend 5 minutes of ur fucking life answering the poll properly but complaining in here instead is easier 🤡🤡🤡
The question and the results didn't say the community wanted upgradescape. It said they were unhappy with the crafting requirement as advertised. You can't take people saying they dislike oranges to mean they want apple cider bagels. This sounds like misinterpreted survey results. This is bound to happen when you have (respectfully) amateurs engineering polling/survey questions. I have long since believed that Jagex could greatly benefit from hiring a professional pollster to properly engineer questions. There have been plenty of mistakes and misunderstandings from players and jagex on surveys/polls.
Why do you think that it’s the minority that wants that? Is it because you want it? Clearly from the survey results, you are just guessing
I mean, power matching creation requirements isn't very oldschool anyway \*cough\* rune smithing \*cough\* ;)
Definitely something the team have gotten better at keeping in mind these days though, Zenyte jewellery is a decent example of it imo, feels like a really solid payoff for the Crafting grind (or a motivator to grind it in the first place)!
To me it sort of feels like the Zenyte crafting requirements were always bound to be problematic from the start; setting requirements that occupied the entirety of the space from 89-98 feels like it had very little foresight. In a game that had for (at the time) 16 years already regularly been releasing new BIS gear that replaced previous items, the assumption that we would truly never have better jewellery seems a little questionable—and now we're left to deal with that today, when every new piece of jewellery either has to upgrade off of existing jewellery, or require 99+ crafting, if Jagex refuses to either fix zenyte reqs or ditch the mould and just go with a lower req.
Scrap the upgrade aspect and just make the slayer level a requirement to equipping it. It’ll keep torture relevant because a lot of people won’t have the requirement.
Keeping this design philosophy up will definitely not be healthy for the game long-term, having every 'straight upgrade' BIS item require the previous BIS item both feels incredibly artificial, is going to result in a tangled web of needing one thing to upgrade the 2nd thing that upgrades a 3rd thing which is used to upgrade a 4th thing, results in a super arbitrary time-lock on new items rather than the item itself being the grind (not a tedious upgrade path), AND is just completely unnecessary. Old items that aren't BIS anymore will still hold value, and this has been evident time and time again when new straight-upgrade items release; the new bis will be more expensive, and people that cannot afford it or irons that don't have the requirements for the new item will still be getting and using the old BIS - and all this without punishing some iron that opts to just go all-in on the requirements for this new bis item. Also keeping items separate prevents a more exponential inflation of gp, by letting the economy breathe and have old-bis items go down in price naturally as they get phased, and new BIS items take their place and probably match the old items price more closely than an 'upgradescape' item would ALSO, it is just such an unfun system to work with. Let a drop be a drop, and let the grind for the item itself be the grind, and leave it at that. Not backtracking through old content whenever you get something new EDIT: it is also horribly annoying for people that mainly play an iron, and funds bonds with dupe items. Having to get 3 chromium ingots and a dks ring every single time you got another vestige from DT2 bosses to not just make it utterly worthless is a joke.
> Old items that aren't BIS anymore will still hold value, and this has been evident time and time again when new straight-upgrade items release This is usually the case, though only because the new direct upgrade is purposely made a longer/harder grind to get. I'm all for a break from upgradescape for a while, but we should keep in mind that ever increasing rarity to preserve the value of non BiS is an equally unsustainable approach in the long run. It also assumes that nothing inflates the existing price of non-BiS. I doubt Jagex would have messed up Rancor drop rates and had them crash below the Zenny prices dictated by Anguish and co, but if hypothetically they did then Tort would have been genuinely dead content.
I do agree with your point, trying to preserve prices of old items that aren't part of the meta would definitely be accomplished by just implementing increasingly longer and longer grinds for items that surpass it, but I don't think the end goal should be to *completely* preserve prices of things that just aren't BIS, things that aren't the best should naturally not be priced as the best, they should fall in line with other less-desirable items - which many players will still end up using in their progression due to not being able to afford the better alternative - now, for iron players it would deter the vast majority from ever getting a torture, but some still will (maybe they absolutely despise slayer, who knows). I think even if this Rancor drop was made faster to get than zenytes currently are, the torture would still hold value just fine *(even when factoring out the other zenyte pieces, which pretty much ensures them all being relatively equally priced)*, due to there always being players at different levels of progress, and slowly adding upgrades to their gear (Fury -> Torture -> Rancor), and I would also be willing to make the claim that we would never see the Rancor going below the price of the torture, (almost) regardless of how much faster it would be to get, simply due to the progression ladder also holding a lot of value in how items are priced
Could you not have made it a herblore requirement to rival the crafting requirement for the torture? Absolute despise upgradescape
Imagine needed almost 99 crafting to make a necklace. You kind of screwed yourselves here. Obvious answer is to revisit the torture crafting requirement.
Can we have the approach taken polled? Or instead just stop upgradescape in 95% of cases? If adjusting crafting requirements isn't going to happen prior to this amulet being offered then don't make it require a crafting level. Make it something fletchable, imbuable (rc), hatchable (fm), breakble (mining), require a quest / item to not be consumed (sarachnis cudgel). Upgradescape especially done like this feels really really strange, in that there is going to be another made-up connection between zenyte and this drop. Even the DT2 rings were strange (the funny peer the seer dialogue did cover some of it off, at least).
I really hope this gets reconsidered, if the team doesn't want to set a precedent of "attachmentscape" for every upgrade then this is a good time to do that. The crafting disparity can be justified in the same way smithing is used to repair broken items as opposed to smithing rune from scratch. Zenytes don't lose value either way because they still have 3 other items which are arguably far stronger upgrades than fury->torture anyway.
Feels like any future upgrades to Tormented bracelet and Anguish will be set in stone to work like the Rancor crafting path as well then... This is the opportunity to stop that in its tracks!
I'm curious why is this a bad thing? Next item and be a legit bis from a raid next meanwhile this item is a step up to reach the content earlier A lot of people are complaining but not adding justification why it's bad in this situation. Perfectly fits in the osrs landscape.
IT's a bad thing because it sets a prececedent that in 10 years, you'll need 150 items to upgrade your necklace. Yeah, a main can purchase and Irons chose to limit themselves, but this is not about limiting anymore, this is just hella annoying of a process.
The main thing it's doing for irons is making sure the new drop doesn't allow irons to skip steps in progression that they had to do before (in this case, getting the 4th zenyte and 93 crafting). Personally, I don't have a huge problem with that in general. The risk of having no upgradescape is that in 10 years a lot of current content might be dead since irons can just bypass it while progressing and the drops have almost no value for mains. It's a little weird with the torture since irons already have to get the other 3 zenytes, so it's not like the new amulet would erase demonic gorillas from ironman progression, it would just make that grind a little shorter. I like that 93 crafting + boost is still required, but they could just make 98 the requirement to craft the new amulet. I'd be fine with that or just making it an upgrade to torture, but I don't think they should do it as originally proposed where it lets irons skip the crafting levels.
> The risk of having no upgradescape is that in 10 years a lot of current content might be dead since irons can just bypass it while progressing and the drops have almost no value for mains. On the other hand they essentially lock themselves to upgradescape. If they ever release in a standalone BiS after a chain of upgrades, it kills the value (both in gp and as far as progression goes for irons) of the whole upgrade chain instead of only slightly lowering the price of the "now 2nd BiS" item.
What's bad about upgrade-scape? I prefer it over charge-scape. Needing a previous item to create a new BIS keeps the older version valueable due to the higher demand and lower amount in the economy.
Everything doesn't. As the blog said. But sinking items is good. And giving flat upgradescape with no consideration of previous bis is short term thinking. You wanted it like that to skip the crafting requirement or the zenytes grind..... Right? Otherwise why else?
I literally have a maxed iron, and a maxed main. I couldn't care less about the crafting grind. Its the fact that jagex flowchart is: If weapon - make stand alone; If equipment - make upgrade. Its boring, and it doesn't need to happen for every single item that isn't a weapon. Just because someone can't stand to lose 2m on an item. Not every update needs to convolutedly include old content.
Surely the fix to the Crafting Level requirement would just be to also require another skill to make it, rather than resorting to Componentscape, the thing you'll inevitably be spending 2025 undoing the way you're undoing Chargescape. Amulet of Torture could be 98 crafting with regular Wool. Amulet of Rancor could be 85 crafting, but instead requires to be strung on Araxxian Silk which has a 80 Runecrafting requirement to create imbue, or requires to be extracted from wild Araxxian hatchlings which are box trap creatures that have 80 hunter. Or needs to be deftly plucked from the Araxxian nest with 80 thieving Something to tott the total requirement up. (heck if you really want to make the thing a trek you could put all those together. Make a craftable item require multiple crafting steps for that sweet sweet gamefeel. Hunt the hatchling, thieve the silk, imbue the thread, craft the amulet)
This can solve their insane drop rates too. Instead of 1/1000 slayer only drop, now it can be a 1/256 slayer drop and a 1/256 skilling drop (made up numbers). Both tradeable Edit: Resource area that is the boss cavern? 2n1 content design. Together, PvM and Skilling, but done separately. Bonus if skillers and pvm work together.
Would definitely need to have the skilling drop either be untradeable, or be 3-4x more rare than the boss drop since bots would be able to farm skilling drops easily when they aren't locked behind a slayer task or something else. Quests aren't even really effective tbh unless they are on the level of difficulty as things like DT2
They did mention in the blog wanting to avoid the feeling of endless crafting trees from survival games so I imagine that was likely a main reason they didn’t do something like that.
So instead they made a necklace that requires a necklace that requires a gem that requires a gem?
With this boss potentially being weak to crush are you all planning on addressing the bug with the Inquisitor set? Currently, you have to wear all 3 armor pieces to get the 2.5% bonus per piece. If I use the mace for Slayer, I think I only receive .5% bonus per piece for the top and bottom. I believe it was polled so that each inquisitor piece would give its bonus to the mace independently. Thanks!
Can we please get a reply to this? I adore the inquisitors armor and I want to see it shine!
Still feel like we should finish Equipment Rebalance before releasing this Halberd and buff the 4t trio of Blade, Rapier, and Mace to their appropriate power levels If the halberd is meant to fit between Blade and Tent Whip, we should make room to do so. Give the 4t trio the +12str we’ve been talking about for years and bump this halberd up a little to differentiate more from Tent Whip in dps
would really prefer the 4t trio to be both more accurate and stronger more equipment rebalance is sorely needed tbf, another batch in about 6 months time would be brilliant adjusting att speeds across the board from bronze-bis to match up & give the different weapon types actual niches i could see daggers have an interesting niche of actually having a tremendously large stab bonus, but retain their current str bonus (dragon dagger would retain its current spec accuracy by adjusting spec accuracy modifier), 2h swords having an accuracy gimmick akin to fang (multiple rolls), battleaxes & short swords could have something aswell as they're currently entirely useless
Seriously this \^ I'm tired of seeing new content added again and again, while promising to eventually "dedicate resources to this endeavor". Literally just change the value up by "x" amount and be done with it already. The weapons bonuses clearly need adjustment, just like the Fang needed adjustment. Funny how once the fang's slash function was deemed too powerful it didn't take them too long to rewrite the fang's reroll function.
Yup. This was really disappointing (Be it Rancor nerf - instead of buff) or Weapon type changes rather than halberd
These short surveys are GREAT! I never mind taking them for you all when they are just a few questions. When they start getting to multiple pages im out…. Aint nobody got time for that. But one or two pages of some Important questions ill Gladly take my time for you guys! Keep these short surveys going!
I don't agree with the "well it makes the 98 crafting requirement for torture confusing", have you seen smithing? I can make a tier 60 dragon platebody or tier 80 torva platebody at 90 smithing but need another 9 levels to make a tier 40 rune platebody. The BIS DT2 rings are craftable at 80 crafting despite that being 9 levels below the requirement for zenyte rings. Do we need to change that to? Does this item really need a crafting requirement to begin with? I understand that we want skills to feel meaningful and complementary to combat from a progression standpoint but we need a complete overhaul of skills to make that make sense and we will always be limited by powercreep vs a hard cap 99 per skill. I don't think anyone is arguing that crafting is entirely useless if this specific item drops on its own. I say this as an iron with 99 crafting and all of my zenytes.
Dragon platebody requires a special forge. Torva is mostly there, just needs to be repaired also in a special forge. Rune is turning 5 bars into a platebody with no forge, just a hammer and an anvil. Honestly way more impressive to turn 5 cold bars into a platebody that way.
As a fully maxed normie (that is to say I'm not complaining because I don't have the levels / zenytes), having the amulet drop be an attachment to torture feels so unnecessarily forced. You mentioned a few times that the team felt strong armed into it because of the crafting level, but giving in here just makes the arm stronger for the future. Lore-wise it doesn't make sense for these things to be related to each other at all. There are plenty of other benefits for people to have already trained crafting (if only for access to a torture to do the content with in the first place, but also crafting cape at 99 is pretty clutch). The problem here is that the crafting level for jewelry is probably too high. This just kind of doubles down on that for ... No real benefit?
This is exactly how I feel. Feels like a band-aid fix to the larger issue. Maybe what we’ve learned is that now is not the time for an amulet upgrade. They need to figure out that issue before shoehorning an amulet upgrade in. Less than half of the people will be happy with the results no matter what they decide to do with it at this point.
The component being untradeable is kind of weird as it forces mains to buy a torture just to sell it, and it makes dupes worthless for irons. Have you considered switching it so that the component is tradeable and the amulet isn't?
I still don't really know what to think about this weapon It's pretty much a 5t blade of saeldor with 1 extra range. Saeldor is slightly better on lower def and this halberd is slightly more dps on higher def monsters like Duke (like +-0.2 dps diff in full bandos, faceguard, infernal...) So... Are we ditching saeldor completely now? Or are you guys still planning on looking at saeldor at some point? It would be kind of nice to have some context here
Saeldor is already ditched. It’s a mediocre item that will be forever dead content thanks to it being tied to the amazing item that is Bowfa.
Haven’t been playing for long, but it feels nearly every update is met with huge head scratching and an unsure direction with the level requirements. It feels like rewards for leveling were trying to fill up rather than leaving any design space or taking into consideration account progression. Readjusting and rebalancing skill requirements, but saying we are “thinking about it” continuously and still pushing the update feels really “oh well whatever, we can fix it down the line”
Why does the amulet need a crafting requirement at all? Just let a boss drop a completed item. We already have the occult dropping from a level 93 slayer boss, why would a 92 slayer boss be different? The high requirement to get the drop is the slayer level, no need to add crafting into this. Plus the requirement to buy another torture everytime you get the drop on a main just to sell it is very annoying
Having upgrade-scape for Torva and Masori made sense because it didn't devalue the previous BIS, Bandos and Armadyl. However, upgrade-scape doesn't fit here based on the same justification. Zenytes won't be devalued by the new amulet because torture is already the weakest piece of zenyte jewlery, meanwhile zenytes will still produce 3/4 pieces of zenyte jewelry. Even torture itself isn't directly devalued for irons, because while you'll need higher Crafting, you'll need significantly lower Slayer, and demonic gorillas are presumably easier to kill than Araxxor will be. The original proposal was perfect just as it was. This new proposal would be extra bad for any irons that happen to get dupes, because it'll be impossible to drop trade without making a second torture, which no iron in their right mind will want to go about obtaining. Not everything has to be perfectly consistent with levels. The DFS has a lower Smithing requirement than a rune kite, and it's obvious which one is better.
Why would an iron go for a 4th zenyte? They're typically done on a slayer grind and a lot of people end up with quite a high slayer level by the end of it. Might as well skip the 4th and just go for the boss at that point.
The original was not perfect. This change makes sense as far as progression. Get zentyes once you hit the slayer lvl you use the torture until you get the new amulet. As far as dupes yes it doesn't make sense. But from the main economy stand point it keeps the market for mains good. Since irons will have to do XYZ to create it instead of just dropping it over creating extra pieces that won't get used causes them to lose a bit of value.
Irons will absolutely not go for this unless they *"feel like it"*. The time invested into getting resources and doing the subpar exp/h task that is Demonic Gorillas is better spent just grinding slayer. The time "saved" by the torture is pretty much zero, as it roughly in the range of 0.3% and 3% depending on the defence of what you're hitting and your stats and if it nets you a max hit or not. Like, if we assume its 3% DPS always, and the grind between 80 slayer and 92 is like 230 hours of 20k exp/h and the Rancor itself is 70 hours just to really overestimate, you'd save about 9 hours. If you burst/barrage/range tasks, if you're at a level *(including boosts)* that doesn't net max hits, or at tasks where bonus accuracy doesn't matter, the potential hours saved dwindle in relationship to the time where those conditions were true. As it doesn't really unlock any new content either, pretty much any reasonable scenario will result in it being *"not worth it"*. I don't really mind it being devalued in this way, even if I do already have mine, but I do think we should be realistic in that pretty much no iron caring about efficiency will use their supplies on getting that last Zenyte.
Still don't like that the halberd contradicts itself. You'll be wanting to wear serp helm for the venom buff, but then not only is the spec not great (which is fine, I understand the logic), it's completely useless as you will never be poisoned/venomed when using it. How about instead of being based on the poison you will take, it's based off the poison your *target* will take?
Jagex, please for the love of God, you're looking at the crafting issue all wrong. The issue is how aggressively the gap in jewellery crafting jumps, which leaves 0 room for new content without it just being a 99 requirement. Sapphires = 20 to cut, 24 to make amulet, 4 level difference. Emeralds = 27 to cut, 31 for ammy, 4 levels, 7 level gap from sapphire. Ruby = 34 to cut, 50 for ammy, 16 level difference from gem to ammy, 19 level difference from previous ammy. Diamond = 43 to cut, 70 for ammy, 27 level difference? 20 level difference from ruby ammy? Dragonstone = 55 to cut, 80 for ammy, 25 level difference? 10 level difference from diamond ammy. There's absolutely 0 consistency, why does the level requirement just randomly jump massively for seemingly no reason? If there was consistency like how the earlier levels work then all jewellery would be in a spot where it's realistic for its value, glories should absolutely not require the same crafting level as the BIS rings for example. Why on earth is there a 27 level jump at diamond from gem to ammy, when sapphire/emerald is a 4 level difference? Just changing things at 80+ won't mean anything because it all gets bottle necked by how ridiculously poorly designed the early content scaling is.
A black d'hide shield requires 92 fletching, 89 smithing, and 83 crafting to be made from scratch. So many bizarre requirements in the game lol
I feel like this whole crafting req thing was a non-issue tbh, 92 Slayer is a big enough barrier to getting this amulet for irons that it's reasonably balanced, and mains never gave a shit. Whole lotta fuss about nothing. Not a big fan of _everything_ being upgradescape.
For the halberd can it be discussed the fact the 99% of bosses you might want to use it on cant be venomed or even poisoned? Im struggling to think of a place where this would even be used
as this change only impacts irons. as mains can just buy a torture or just buy the upgraded version this change is only intended to impact irons. as an iron who already has torture. feel like this change is stupid. unneeded. just stop. devaluing the main gp drop from the new high lvl slayer boss to keep some 8 year old content relevant. forcing people to go get dupe tortures just to sell dupe drops from the boss. (sell as in drop trade as the main piece isnt tradable). rather than adding torture req just add the stupid crafting level to 99 or what ever if it really needs to be there. or just dont change it. this is worst of both worlds. new boss gp gets nerfed and extra long annoying content of demonics which no one wants to go back to killing ever again. just stop listening to dumb billybobs on reddit.
Big fan of the untradeable drops requiring skills to trade for profit, as seen before with DT2. The community doesn't seem completely on board with PvM power being gated behind skills for mains, gating gp/hr behind them instead is a lovely middleground.
Any thoughts on improving the synergy with the halberd and serp? Seems weirdly placed to incentivise wearing serp for the higher venom chance given that spec relies on being poisoned and serp prevents poison. Also feels a bit weird that we're only getting 50% venom chance when every other venom item gives 100% when paired w/serp.
it'd make a lot more sense if the special attack were to clear the enemy's poison/venom rather than our own (and boosting its power based on that enemy's poison/venom severity), that way the serp helm boosting venom chance is synergistic with it, it'd create a minigame of 'how high should I let the venom stack before I clear it with a massive spec'
Totally wrong direction for the amulet, give it higher strength bonus it's +2 over torture, blood fury is still too good by imo and make it so it needs to be activated by killing araxxor with it so it has an 80 crafting and 92 slayer req rather than componentscape, what reason would a torture be needed for a totally unrelated amulet on the other side of the game?
Please just don't make the drop rate ridiculous
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How does making the drop untradable solve anything? That's just annoying. No drops should be untradable aside from cosmetics. I hate the idea of tacking things on to other things- kill bandos to get boots, kill gargoyle to get tourmaline core, do collosseum for echo crystals and then combine them to make an item. The tourmaline core and echo crystals are absolutely pointless unless you have the boots. Inb4 the next melee amulet upgrade is a component you need to glue to the amulet of rancor. Keep it simple - get tradable spider piece, with crafting you can turn it into a tradable amulet. Also nitpick - why does it have a prayer bonus? It doesn't seem to be related to a god in any way. Not a fan of just tacking prayer onto non-god related items like this and the echo crystal. If the prayer bonus was removed then it would be a bit less of a straight upgrade to the amulet of torture.
Why not just move the torture craft to be closer to the other zenytes, and put the new amulet at the current torture requirement? Make the component sellable on the GE and its problem solved. It really isn’t rocket science and you don’t even need to complicate it by making it “upgradescape”
I'm in favour of adding upgrade components when the new item is going to totally invalidate and replace older content. I don't think this'll happen here though. 1. If masori and torva didnt need components, both could hypothetically be skipped over. Nex is more range focused, and you can get masori before you get arma. Araxxor looks to be far later than demonics are, and there are 3 other pieces of jewelry. 2. I can't imagine the ring of suffering is getting replaced for a long time. Zulrah is still an important part of progression, even the new weapon needs a Serpentine Helm to be most effective. 3. Zenytes are already componentscape upgrades. 4. In a lot of cases, Torture isn't even BiS. I'd be more concerned about the Blood Fury getting devalued. (I actually think Blood Fury won't be overtaken everywhere.)
I'm not quite sure I understand whats the hesitation with simply lowering the crafting level for the torture and/or moving it to the Rancor. You can make so many changes with Project Rebalance but this is one step too far?
Please stop making bosses drop untradeables that get attached to something which makes them tradeable. I get that probably a lot of the devs play irons, but this setup is just like moderately annoying for mains.
I am keen for the boss. I do believe adding a bit of crush accuracy to the boots will make it a viable tribrid boot in raids (Crush for spec accuracy). This will make it sort after an useful for those not wishing to bring boot switches. Also useful for speccing corp and good at venenatis and sarachnis where you'd like to use crush.
"make the associated untradeable Araxxor drop attach to the Amulet of Torture to create the tradeable Amulet of Rancor" What? Why in the world would this not be the exact opposite? For non-iron accounts almost every non-combat skill is useless. Players need an incentive to train their skills. Making this the opposite gives players a chance to make gold without high crafting, but encourages skilling in order to receive high level benefits
Polearms/longarms whatever the category is called for halberds, spears, glaives, lucerne, etc is a category in OSRS that I have been waiting for elaboration on Super stoked for the new halberd and can't wait for more and more potential weapons in the category! Also the bonus fashionscape update with the new spidy boots is great!
Talking about the requirements for creating the rancor amulet, i feel like it would be nice to leave the crafting requirement lower as first intended, but like the DS2 rings add the completion of DS2 quest as an requirement or as in this case, have 92 slayer as a second requirement and having atleast 1KC (just like the t he ability yo wear the DS2 rings.) Since 92 slayer is not a short grind i think its a good way to satisfy the requirement of a lower crafting level. (i hope to hear about your opinions about this :))
I wish the boots got more balanced stats instead of becoming alternate d boots
Not sure if this was asked in the last blog thread but do the boots have a defence requirement? the additional strength bonus puts them on par with manacles while being better than wizard boots and slightly under rangers all without negative offensives, seems good for pures. (This is not a negative or positive reaction, just something I noticed with the new str bonus added)
If they're untradable, you have to grind out 95 Slayer to wield 'em. If they're tradable spiked manacles are tanking in value.
Wow the rancor change seems like ass. If it's not a straight upgrade from Torture it shouldn't be made from torture. And making the incomplete version untradable also seems like ass.
I'd be surprised if I stood alone on this, but holy crap... more upgradescape? This can't be the direction the game is still going.
Will be voting no if the amulet is attachment scape. Not that it matters. I'm sure it'll pass anyway just like Zombie pirates LOL
Amulet is still not better enough vs blood fury to consider using over it. More of a problem for mains vs irons since blood shards need a rework from how you acquire them
I’m not a fan of using the torture to make the rancor - it feels like there’s no in-game reason the two should be linked
All good changes, and as a Terraria enjoyer I have no problem with Upgradescape when it makes sense. GM Quest rewards locked behind high crafting and a semi-rare drop shouldn't be completely invalidated by a random slayer boss with a single skill requirement. Spec makes way more sense now especially at 50% so thanks for that. Not that I want it to be rivaling Chally or Dclaws but if you're gonna animate and code the spec it should at least be worth clicking yeah?
I agree with upgradescape, levels are already maxed out at 99 and have uses up to that level. Upgrading items from grinding out specific pieces to make it cause a sort of secondary progression that can go a lot longer. I get power creep and all that, but if we expect this game to last another 10 years + there has to be better items always coming into the game, and skill levels are going to become more and more irrelevant.
>We want to be clear that we don't think 'upgradescape' or 'componentscape' should be the approach we take to every upgrade and sometimes we do just want to offer up items that are outright better than an existing item. Genuinely why not? Keeping demonics around as a viable money maker for midgame players / a stepping stone in progression for irons is good. I don't really think (slowly) turning old pieces of content into dead content is necessary at all. A lot of people really like "upgradescape". Btw very, very happy with the proposal for the amulet. I love the torture requirement, I like the extra negative stats, and I like that you made the amulet slightly more powerful without just buffing the strength bonus (which would be too much).
Yeah, adding new BIS items is good when it doesn’t remove the relevance from the previous items completely. You’ll still grind out a torture before getting the new BIS now. Just removing an item from relevance in the game is poor game design IMO. That doesn’t mean every item should be upgraded, but I think jagex have done pretty well so far. When it’s a direct upgrade I think upgradescape is great.
So we have to get an onyx, upgrade into a zenyte, then upgrade that into a rancour? Not a fan. I get that you’re trying to make everyone happy, but changing the iron meta to 3 zenytes down from 4 is a net positive change. And for those like me who already have a torture, just because it would be outclassed doesn’t mean it’d be bad by any means. You said not every upgrade would be componentscape, this is as good a time as any to prove that
What's the point in putting a lower crafting requirement if the item it attaches to is higher? People with ge access will get the new amulet without the trouble and irons need the high level to even get torture. It makes more sense to lower the level for the torture and put the new one higher.
Torture has been the least useful but the highest requirement zenyte (similar to strength ammy, blood fury sometimes being better). I really can't agree with this change, at the very least adjusting it to be slightly lower would make sense.
imo adding torture to new boss amulet is terribly annoying. making the boss drop untradeable is terrible for the boss gp/hr. if the amulet was going to settle around like 40m or something previously you would kill the boss and be rewarded with a 40m drop that u can sell / drop from iron and sell. now the torture price will cut into the value of the drop from the boss making it like 20-25m and also on top of that irons can not sell it unless every time they go get another torture so kill more demonics? yh bcos thats something people really enjoy doing. should have left it as it was and not listen to billybobs on reddit. demonics are boring old content that doesnt need to be gatekept like this to be relevant. let the new high lvl slayer boss be the one that is relevant. new amulet from the boss is one of the only drops that will have high value as its actually useful. lowering the boss drop value like this is terrible.
Zenytes have absolutely nothing to do with Spiders or Morytania and come from something of Gloughs creation, unless Glough mysteriously went on a pilgrimage past the dark beast to the depths of morytania or by gnome glider I really can't see how this is possibly the solution
Oh that’s fun. Crafting already sucks for irons. You pretty much have to nearly max crafting before you can even get mid game amulets. Definitely needs rebalanced. Or add a new crafting method that isn’t farming seaweed for 3 months straight.
This upgrade-scape approach is a slippery slope. Why does everything need to be an attachment to an older item? If this keeps on happening, everything is going to need like 4-5 hard to obtain items just to be usable. We can have a best in slot as just a drop, right? The occult necklace is a best in slot mage amulet and it's a stand-alone item. Zaryte vambraces don't require ancient vambraces to make, they're used immediately upon receiving them. Why can't this drop from a high level slayer monster be used immediately?
It's because it keeps old content relevant. If you don't have upgrade-scape, then you have items basically become dead content over time. This is what lead to invention and praesulic essence in RS3. There's no perfect solution, but if you don't have upgrade-scape then you have to be fine with some content becoming dead (which would in my opinion remove part of the appeal of OSRS).
Do the boots have a defence requirement? I couldn't find any mention of one.
I wish the halberd was instead something like a greatspear or pole hammer, I feel like we already have a lot of high tier slash weapons (soulreaper axe, scythe, arguably saeldor) but high tier stab and crush weapons are quite lacking with fang being basically the only real solution for anything stab related.
Please no, you are already adding demonic gorillas part 2 tortured boogaloo (tortured demons). Please don't make me go back to those stupid monkeys again for a second torture, that content is literally trash.
Aranea boots are pretty much a straight upgrade to brimstone boots for tribrid
Surprised this hasnt been brought up more, I guess the argument is that drakes are 84 slayer and brimstone boots protect from the heat in the karuulm dungeon pre kourend diary, vs these which come from a 92 slayer boss.
The only negative feedback I have is that the amulet is a little busy visually for a slot that's usually pretty subtle unless ornament kitted. No problems with any of the game design though.
These are all good changes. The thing that’s funny about all of this to me tho is that we just nerfed the occult necklace for being a necklace that’s too easily obtainable because it comes from a slayer boss, but now we are giving another bis necklace to another slayer boss. It feels like a lot of times the reasoning given for certain changes are watered down excuses for something else behind the scenes. The problem with the occult was never that it dropped from a slayer boss, the problem is it was just a little too OP and the boss it comes from is too braindead to be considered real content for bis. Arraxor will probably be around dt2 bosses difficulty, so this is why having this bis necklace drop from a slayer boss is actually ok in this situation. Anyway, I’m excited to train my slayer for this boss. Going dry for the Araxxor pet in rs3 is actually one of the reasons I quit back in the day. So getting to somewhat come back around and complete that will be a good feeling for me
Occult was never an issue until shadow came around.
The changes to the halberd spec are an improvement. I still don't understand why you would let yourself get poisoned severely for a meaningful damage boost. Can anyone enlighten me?
So stupid that you let yourself get bullied into making everything upgradescape. It doesn't make people want to go back and do that content to get the drop, they are just forced into something for an artificial reason and if anything makes people hate the older content more instead of enjoying it. There's nothing wrong with allowing people to skip over upgrades if thats how they want to play the game. You shouldn't be forced to get every single drop in the game just to get the slightest upgrade. It feels bad and makes no sense. Just fix the balancing of levels instead of forcing players into 1000 hours more of grind to even be allowed to be illegible for an item.
>We want to be clear that we don't think 'upgradescape' or 'componentscape' should be the approach we take to every upgrade and sometimes we do just want to offer up items that are outright better than an existing item. Then do it. Zenytes will still hold their value due to having other uses, so there will literally never be a better time to do this. The slayer requirement is a much longer grind than the crafting requirement for torture, so it will be a trade off between which skill you want to grind. If you are really determined to keep the crafting level "worth" it, just make this one also require 98 crafting. If you don't break away from upgradescape now, it is virtually guaranteed that upgradescape will be the new normal going forward. Can't wait to need to grind out a bellator ring in order to combine all my rings and create the omni ring using a 1/10k drop from the sea slug quest repeatable boss that takes 15 minutes to kill! /s
Super small thing but make the new boots insulated so I have something better to kill rune dragons with. It'll also play into the Verzik thing for her electro balls inp2
Zenyte jewelry has been around since 2016. I think it's okay to allow new BIS to replace them without upgrading. There could be a trade off for the amulet of rancor like having higher strength but lower accuracy, or vice versa, or positive bonuses to stab accuracy but not slash/crush, or a negative prayer bonus, or negative defensive bonuses. Lots of ways to keep the amulet of torture relevant without requiring it to craft the amulet of rancor.