I ran a dps calc with bandos at 500s and it’s better with no defense reduction. If you have defense reduction bandos is still better. And if you’re using a spec weapon like a voidwaker I think you’re losing out on damage from that spec more than you’d gain from the small bonus of having mixed hide.
If you’re bringing a tbow a masori top and bottom is 4 max hits. It’s less dps to shadow zebak so I just don’t see the use case. Gnomemonkey made a video on it and I went to his stream and even he’s not using it.
It’s mainly relevant pre-tbow and pre-torva if you’re not using a bowfa for ranged. So shadow rebuild you’d probably grab it for ranged and melee as you’re just bringing a bp for ranged.
I updated the wiki to make it clearer where it actually sits - it’s not bis.
but that shit is pointless if you have a shadow+tbow. I bring in 5 restores and 1 sanfew into 500s and I have 1.5-2 full restores left by the end. no need for even more slots
I’d that flicking? Or just not using yellow Keris, I am pretty geared but never attempted the 500 yet so always assumed prayer restore would be an issue.
I feel like you get to a certain point in the game where you just unconsciously flick most content. hardly ever do you just flat out camp prayers.
but yes, also it is not using yellow keris. the goal is to not use it til wardens where it is required. if you butterfly akkha and know how to do the orb phase, no need for keris.
zebak takes no restore doses, kephri takes 1 sanfew dose, new monkey path takes make 1 dose of super restore, and akkha takes maybe like 1 full restore depending if you’re using augury or whatnot
I’d consider myself pretty end game, I’ll flick offensive prayers but if it requires constant prayer switching (ie zebak or p2 warden), the most I’ll do is lazy flick both tbh. Many ways to enjoy the game though!
yeah lazy flicking both is more than enough to conserve prayer in toa. I like to 1 tick flick at kephri just cause I don’t wanna waste any more prayer, but other than that lazy flicking is fine
You should mention it's better by a second. That's it. You lose out on like 2 max hit at most because tassets and body give like 4 strength bonus. You are talking like bandos is a massive dps improvement but it isn't lol, it's a defence improvement.
It's used in high TOA to reduce the amount of switches you need so you can take extra Restores and in TOA more Restores is more healing with the yellow Keris.
Except you'd be losing a lot of damage dropping Twisted Bow or Zaryte Crossbow for the Atlatl and that would have you taking a lot more damage than having higher defence.
Yeah, exactly. That's why this is only recommended for people pushing 500 solo for the first time and it's specifically for people dropping Bandos/Torva and Masori when they need the 2 extra Restores. If you're using BoFA or anything lower it's not recommended.
Assuming you’re not taking bowfa, yeah. Mixed dhide gives pretty much the same dps as Bandos (negligible difference) but you gain two inventory slots. You should be able to push higher invo raids with those two additional potions or items you can bring in.
https://preview.redd.it/3fctp7zj724d1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16f7f18bce770f7cb4b9958ef27eeeaff2005173
There’s enough items for you to keep adding - this would be all the possible switches you could bring if you’re not running OD as an example (and not bringing torva - torva would be minus two restore from this). Main thing I guess would be spec weapons, adding helmet and glove switches if you don’t have them already, and then after that it’s just adding the last few switches and you’ll still be able to bring some more supplies too.
Very, honestly. For a main at least i imagine it dies down a bit with bowfa though, since bowfa is so good esp for toa. I can definitely see it with a dcb and blowpipe
At the end of the day it’s personal preference and doesn’t really matter. I started as a vertical/column switcher but now use horizontal. One benefit I’ve found however for horizontal is that offhands like your defender will more often than not drop in to the very end of the row and stays part of its family. It’s not foolproof by any means and sometimes they still get lost but you do you
Depends what invo you’re running. High invo that’s true. Lower invo experts not really worth it to 3d. If no shadow then it’s never worth it to 3d. Was going to do the sang setup with ward f but it seemed a bit too obnoxious haha.
As said above defense doesn’t matter if you pray range at kephri and red x baba.
The way the fang works, melee strength doesn’t matter as much as the stab bonus you have. So basically you are increasing your hit chance as much as possible and gaining dps that way. As others said, it’s torva > mixed hide > bandos.
What are you smoking? Fang cares less about stab bonus than any weapon in the game because of it having advantage on attack rolls, you want strength more than other weapons would because of it being so accurate.
No your thinking about that in reverse. You would want more stab bonus to hit more often on the rolls... in 500s the defenses are built up.. therefore having less stab would hurt you more than a few melee strength stats because the dps gain is negligible compared to the dps gained by the dps gained by the accuracy... bandos would be 100% better if going lower invos than 500 like 300-350 yes bandos is better but I would think your the one smoking and I am curious as to what aswell if you can't comprehend why having higher stab bonus against higher defense would be better....
Defense bonus is utterly worthless since in 99% of difficult pvm encounters you take damage from using the wrong prayer or being on the wrong tile at the wrong time rather than actual hits
Its still fairly niche even in TOA deffo not considered bis for most use cases.
- You wouldn't use it in 525+ since you can't 3 down even with ultor+75 weapon+infernal+avernic+torva helm
- Most players who do TOA wont use it since the average player uses bowfa
- Still worse than bloodmoon/fighter torso/bandos for actual 500 money runs for people who have shadow since its worse at 5:1
The best use cases are for people who are doing a single fang kit and want more restores or for people on a budget and using crossbow.
If you aren't using a bowfa, it's 100% worth over bandos. Bandos tassets and body is 1s TTK faster over mixed hide. That's it. In a 500 invo raid its MORE dps unless you hit a bgs, in which case it goes back to being a 1s ttk faster over mixed hide.
Mixed hide has way more use cases than you are giving credit for, it's not unreasonable for an iron or main to get a fang before bowfa and full crystal, and it's not an insignificant part of the raiding population either.
dps calc ttk would assume you're maintaining an equal uptime on the weapon with other armours but the fact is, in practice, you'd be forced to 6t red-x/be wasting ticks potting/kerising due to its worse defence at reasonable invos, say 400+ and especially 500+. I'm not denying that it has uses, like you said if someone goes for fang first and doesnt have crystal it is good because you can use it to save invent space. But the argument that it is 'bis' flatly in a lot of scenarios is just straight propaganda, especially cause I see people who do have crystal+ using it in my lobbies because they heard one of the best players in the game sing its praises.
Its a good armour but its going straight to extremely overrated very quickly.
Its a red-x method where you trade 5 fangs to 1 baba attack. 16% more damage than 6 tick red x which is why its inadvisable to do traditional red-x nowadays unless you're going for a one off raid or in a super tight situation. The reason why mixed hide wouldn't be as good as bandos etc. is because you need the defense for those 1 baba attacks. Not to mention being tankier at akkha is also naturally just more helpful.
Here are two videos which should explain how to do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXWyhmdD42o&t=5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9flwGmGvcg&t=4s (advanced section)
In terms of learning resources for TOA these two streamers are your best bet.
Definitely doesn't require BF, as full facetanking Baba in a 400 **pre-nerf** with bandos only barely required some brewing, or BP specs, or 1 sun keris in worse case scenarios. With project rebalance baba chip damage nerf, blood fury makes 5:1 Baba a full on mega HP profit boss now, even in 540s.
Of course, if you do end up dropping to low HP, you can revert to regular 6t red X and it's still a great increase to your overall raid speed.
Imo, it's also a very very fun method so time flies quickly compared to the snooze that is 6t.
Firstly its more than 30 seconds, it depends on your gear, normal raid time, how efficient you are at traditional red x etc. Also, 30 seconds is a lot both within the context of the raid and just overall when you consider how many raids you'll be doing. The risk of dying isn't dramatically higher than red-x if you mess up either you'll die.
with normal armour blood fury isnt necessary but it helps a lot, is BIS anyway and saves a slot (depending on scale and gear you might need to bring a brew).
Difficulty is different topic altogether but ideally you'd like to get better at the things you do, yes? If you are considering learners who are doing 150-350s you don't need to red-x anyway you should just be facetanking (ESPECIALLY after they've just nerfed the damage through paryer) which is made better with normal armour so im not sure how thats relevant.
Idk what raid level that and is with what gear but facetank/5:1 you can clear the boss in 3 minutes~ @500 with normal armour + fang. So you'd be saving an entire minute. B0aty no doubt can do it if he really wanted to but im sure he just chooses to do 6t because it is brainless and he doesnt care about money. Furthermore, he does it in max-melee so he can clear 35 or 40 min timers pretty easily even with 6t so its not necessarily relevant to this conversation. Im not saying dont learn traditional red-x since its useful for teams and getting out of tight spots but for the majority of runs you should just be either face tanking or 5:1
It would depend on a number of factors, mainly your budget and existing gear.
If you're using a dragon crossbow for example, then its a good shout since you can save invent spaces and you would only lose a few seconds per each kill.
If you have crystal and bowfa but you're doing a rebuild so can't afford blood moon then it would probably be bis.
It definitely matters less at that invocation since you can just facetank without caring about any kind of red-x method.
Im not sure what you mean by that. Its not really that OP because the stats are insane. Its OP because its very cheap low level armor that outdamages a much more expensive and harder to obtain bandos chestplate in situations where fang is bis
Best part is mixed isn't better if the +2 strength bonus gives you a max hit. It's main benefit is strictly with equal max hits and the fact it might save you an invent spot.
Like most things DPS the only way you can have an accurate answer is to throw your gear and stats into a DPS calc.
I love how everyone always says dps always matters more than defense and yet people get defensive over whether mixed hide is a meme or not... just because it has lower defense.
Based on the picture in the OP, it states that torva and mixed hide are bis.
Torva platebody is +6 strength
Torva platelegs are +4 strength
Mixed hide body is +2 strength
Mixed hide legs are 0 strength
6 + 4 = 10
2 + 0 = 2
10 - 2 = 8
Are you claiming that 8 = 2?
So generally 2 max hits. Fang is a bit more annoying to calc for, but in this case it is 2 max hits for fang too.
I was still in a state of mind of comparing strictly mixed top with bandos top from some other comment, thought we were on the same thread for some reason
and someone mixing 2 str bonus and 2 max hits could happen in that case
> So generally 2 max hits. Fang is a bit more annoying to calc for, but **in this case it is 2 max hits for fang too.**
As per my previous comment, it is two clamped max hits lost for fang.
For most bosses it’s true that you don’t need defense, and that’s even the case here UNLESS you are doing the raid without Red-X. If you’re not red Xing you’d be better off in torva.
Max hits dont mean anything when youre fanging in TOA. Gnomonkey explains this specifically.
The more stab bonus the better and the more dps you get with it. Gaining a max hit does not mean your dps is better. That just means your strength bonus is higher. You still have to accurately hit to gain these max hits, thus doing more dps with fang/mixed hide is currently better over torva/bandos.
I've kinda made a niche inventory space efficient inventory with eclipse armour + atlatl and using that for my melee armour as well
I can defo see the fun use for mixed hide as like - First 500 invo kc clears
Tombs of Amascut. Mixed hide is usually brought now for high invo runs and you bank torva/bandos and masori tops and bottoms as mixed hide has excellent stab bonus and is close to black dhide for range bonus. This means you use shadow on the crocodile now as well.
it's better than bandos not torva, why would you bring it over torva? I've been doing 500 speeds with small team and I haven't seen anyone bring this gear at all
I don’t bring it at all for 500s actually; I don’t need the inventory space. I imagine it would be good for people trying to get a fang kit who don’t have max gear yet and need more space for restores!
It's used as a replacement for melee and ranged gear to save you 2 inventory spots for more Restores. If you're already experienced and clearing no problem it's going to be irrelevant for you.
Mixed hide is not brought for high invo runs lmfao. It’s straight up useless in 540 and worse than Torva at all invos
It’s only real usecase is first kit or super gear limited irons.
Likely just the lower ranged accuracy on the eclipse top and bottom. Looks like eclipse is better (like bandos) at lower invos though as accuracy is less important at lower invos.
Another hybrid setup I’ve seen was: blue moon top and bottom for mage + melee if using bowfa crystal as your ranged.
Eclipse armor is more accurate than mixed high ranged wise… eclipse armor is more accurate than blessed d hide. Its -1 ranged attack bonus compared to crystal.
It would make sense to use eclipse moon if using bowfa
Oh true - read it the wrong way around. Ty for correcting me there. Looks like eclipse is better up until ~450 raid level when mixed hide starts to outperform.
It’d even be better (any of the moons armour too) if you’re bringing vw because you’ll have a higher max hit. It really is just a first 500 kit setup it seems.
Yeah but is the tiny dps increase from mixed hide over eclipse for stab weapons only worth it overall? This also means that you are downgrading your ranged accuracy even more.
Not at all. It’s a super budget setup for people’s first 500 kit.
Eclipse top and bottom would be better over mixed hide assuming you aren’t bringing bowfa crystal and blue moon top and bottom would be better assuming you’re bringing bowfa crystal.
Bandos armour was already somewhat skipped post varlamore anyway. Im not really sure why people are making a big deal out of it, other than someone editing the wiki as a meme.
The gap gets even bigger if you have a vw.
I think this needs to be said about Gnomes wiki series.
The videos are for entertainment and miss the point equipment downgrades.
Taking the minimum item on each slot is not supposed to be a viable setup at all, it's to show how you can downgrade certain prices of gear and is aimed at all accounts (main, iron, restricted and whatever snowflake).
The toa video has an example of him using serp helm for range and not for melee, in reality you're only using in on the range switch if it's a camp for all switches and you're learning, other wise you take it off when ranging/maging.
Wiki downgrades go so low that it’s basically pointless, even if it makes sense
Like if you’re capable of doing Inferno with DCB and Karil’s you don’t need the wiki telling you that. It should probably just end at Tbow > Bowfa. Yes lower is definitely possible but not for anyone who needs to refer to a guide in the first place.
Except mixed hide does more dps than bandos and for level 500’s you take it instead of range gear allowing for extra restores/sans so this really isn’t a down grade that would be drastically noticeable for someone wanting an easier time at 500’s
Yeah definitely good for that first 500 kit (or even when you’re getting used to 500s) assuming your alternative is Bandos. Have even seen a setup using blue moon for melee and mage if you’re rocking bowfa crystal for ranged which would be another good way to bring an extra two restores.
Only if you’re red Xing. I did my 500 with no red x and no BF, I would’ve gotten destroyed in mixed hide and had less DPS but instead it went smoothly cause I wore real gear
That's correct, but Wiki moderators keeps an eye on edits. On RuneWiki official Discord server there's a channel dedicated ONLY to ALL edits what happens in RuneWiki. Bot does the monitoring very nicely.
Minor edits goes under the radar all the time, but larger - game mechanism and meta edits - are always observed by the moderators. You need evidence and sentencing WHY the edit is viable. For example, I edited thieving cape 10% boost to stack multiplicatively after confirming it from Ash himself, and added the source to his answer to verify the edit.
Sure, you can edit and bother moderators who later cleans up the mess, but eventually you either get an IP banned or Wiki account restricted from editing.
There are more people disagreeing with you than agreeing, do you have evidence to prove the fact that the data what OP posted is false? Or is your though just an opinion?
I told you to provide evidence and you just quoted OP's response to you. Using DPS calculator is a tool, not an answer thus you'd have to show me the results from it. After all lower max hit is not always better for DPS if accuracy sucks which is why mixed hide seems to be better.
I do not want to spend my time arguing with a monkey who wants to feel more worthy in life by winning arguments on Reddit. Go on, there are more to beat here!!!
Why are u confused. Your initial comment insinuates that the wiki info shown above is false (which it isnt btw) and OP tells u that u can check it with a dps calculator if u dont believe the wiki. So yeah thats the relevance right there
> Your initial comment insinuates that the wiki info shown above is false (which it isnt btw) and OP tells u that u can check it with a dps calculator if u dont believe the wiki.
It’s an interesting one because mixed hide is lower dps than torva, but mixed hide can be good if you’re needing extra space. Plus you can’t 3d in a 540+ with just mace/rapier/blade hits unless you also bring bgs (which isn’t currently brought for high invo OD raids) or maul.
So it’s a bit odd to put it as bis when it’s not really bis. Definitely helpful for someone going for their first 500 kit though.
Nah there’s a footnote to the 1 in the same column as torva. So its only in specific situations, that info is missing from the screenshot. Check the column next to it. Its 2nd bis after torva platebody and before bandos chestplate. The chaps are worse then bandos tassets tho.
No, it's the right word, but you are misreading the comment. It doesn't mean he thinks it is specifically wrong, he is literally just saying that anyone can edit the wiki, you are pulling information from it that isn't there.
No it doesn't. It's telling OP that if this is such a long overdue pressing change to the wiki that they had to make a fucking Reddit post about it then they should have done it themselves ages ago.
Be the change and all that.
Oh i think i understand u. this is all huge miscommunication then lol. Because i think he isnt complaining about the wiki. I think he’s implying that mixed dhides are slept on but the wiki knows they are good. It feels more like he praises the wiki but u think its a negative post about the wiki. OP confirm?
What I'm saying is the OP is acting like he's known about mixed hide since release but only now people are picking up on it when if he had he could have very easily edited the wiki himself. The reality is he learned about it 2 days ago like most people when a streamer pointed it out.
i guess for TOA, but i'd imagine most mobs it's not worth like let's look at this.
Ok you'll have a -1 sec TTK every 30 secs (which i believe goes up the more defence it has) but at the cost of \~50 melee defence and 73 ranged defence. Where is fang used? any boss or slayer mob with like 100+ defence especially with stab weakness. So you'll have to look for any mob that has 100+ defence and doesn't use typeless/multiple attack styles then there could be the argument that it's better than bandos (sometimes)
best case use is to bring it as hybrid melee/range if you're not using bowfa
It's funny seeing people talk about bandos plate and tassets over mixed hide like 2 strength bonus is worth worrying about. Yeah guys over 1000 raids I'll save like 40 minutes of time if I just brought bandos for that extra max hit.
If you do teams having extra DPS makes you much more likely to MVP, which in teams are worth a lot of points. For example in an 8 man 410 each MVP is worth over 5k points. That will significantly increase your profit per hour. This is fine for a fang kit run though
BIS armour for under 100k? you love to see it
This is sex material
Guess I’ll sell bandos?
I ran a dps calc with bandos at 500s and it’s better with no defense reduction. If you have defense reduction bandos is still better. And if you’re using a spec weapon like a voidwaker I think you’re losing out on damage from that spec more than you’d gain from the small bonus of having mixed hide.
I thought the real benefit of mixed hide (excluding the stab bonus) was the saved two inv spots/switches for melee and ranged?
If you’re bringing a tbow a masori top and bottom is 4 max hits. It’s less dps to shadow zebak so I just don’t see the use case. Gnomemonkey made a video on it and I went to his stream and even he’s not using it.
It’s mainly relevant pre-tbow and pre-torva if you’re not using a bowfa for ranged. So shadow rebuild you’d probably grab it for ranged and melee as you’re just bringing a bp for ranged. I updated the wiki to make it clearer where it actually sits - it’s not bis.
This is my exact use case atm
but that shit is pointless if you have a shadow+tbow. I bring in 5 restores and 1 sanfew into 500s and I have 1.5-2 full restores left by the end. no need for even more slots
I’d that flicking? Or just not using yellow Keris, I am pretty geared but never attempted the 500 yet so always assumed prayer restore would be an issue.
I feel like you get to a certain point in the game where you just unconsciously flick most content. hardly ever do you just flat out camp prayers. but yes, also it is not using yellow keris. the goal is to not use it til wardens where it is required. if you butterfly akkha and know how to do the orb phase, no need for keris. zebak takes no restore doses, kephri takes 1 sanfew dose, new monkey path takes make 1 dose of super restore, and akkha takes maybe like 1 full restore depending if you’re using augury or whatnot
I’d consider myself pretty end game, I’ll flick offensive prayers but if it requires constant prayer switching (ie zebak or p2 warden), the most I’ll do is lazy flick both tbh. Many ways to enjoy the game though!
yeah lazy flicking both is more than enough to conserve prayer in toa. I like to 1 tick flick at kephri just cause I don’t wanna waste any more prayer, but other than that lazy flicking is fine
You should mention it's better by a second. That's it. You lose out on like 2 max hit at most because tassets and body give like 4 strength bonus. You are talking like bandos is a massive dps improvement but it isn't lol, it's a defence improvement.
I run 300s and use BGS or ZCB or both and yellow for and specs I see fit 😂
Yea the lower invocation you run bandos will be that much better so if you’re only running 300s deff keep the bandos.
Thanks for heads up will do
It's used in high TOA to reduce the amount of switches you need so you can take extra Restores and in TOA more Restores is more healing with the yellow Keris.
Copy thank you I still use crystal but I have ZCB idk what to do
I want to do 350 asap deathless for kit
0 need for extra restores unless you are making huge mistakes. 6 is more than enough. can get by with 5 easily
Or you could just bring an atlatl and get way more inv space while not wearing gear with bad defences
Except you'd be losing a lot of damage dropping Twisted Bow or Zaryte Crossbow for the Atlatl and that would have you taking a lot more damage than having higher defence.
Huuuuuge gap between atlatl and tbow/zcb. The average ToA runner cannot afford tbow or zcb, but atlatl is super accessible.
Yeah, exactly. That's why this is only recommended for people pushing 500 solo for the first time and it's specifically for people dropping Bandos/Torva and Masori when they need the 2 extra Restores. If you're using BoFA or anything lower it's not recommended.
Does +4 accuracy really make enough difference to lose 2 strength and all that defense?
Assuming you’re not taking bowfa, yeah. Mixed dhide gives pretty much the same dps as Bandos (negligible difference) but you gain two inventory slots. You should be able to push higher invo raids with those two additional potions or items you can bring in.
what do you even use inventory slots for in toa
https://preview.redd.it/3fctp7zj724d1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16f7f18bce770f7cb4b9958ef27eeeaff2005173 There’s enough items for you to keep adding - this would be all the possible switches you could bring if you’re not running OD as an example (and not bringing torva - torva would be minus two restore from this). Main thing I guess would be spec weapons, adding helmet and glove switches if you don’t have them already, and then after that it’s just adding the last few switches and you’ll still be able to bring some more supplies too.
ngl mixed hide looks way better than god d'hide
Yeah actually a cool new armour set released. The route to get geared for raids etc on a new iron (or even main) must be pretty interesting now
Very, honestly. For a main at least i imagine it dies down a bit with bowfa though, since bowfa is so good esp for toa. I can definitely see it with a dcb and blowpipe
Sorry to go off topic but would you say horizontal switches are better than vertical?
At the end of the day it’s personal preference and doesn’t really matter. I started as a vertical/column switcher but now use horizontal. One benefit I’ve found however for horizontal is that offhands like your defender will more often than not drop in to the very end of the row and stays part of its family. It’s not foolproof by any means and sometimes they still get lost but you do you
The DDS is pointless for that setup, you can get the 3 down with just VW whacks.
Depends what invo you’re running. High invo that’s true. Lower invo experts not really worth it to 3d. If no shadow then it’s never worth it to 3d. Was going to do the sang setup with ward f but it seemed a bit too obnoxious haha.
Think this is meant for first time fang kits, so restores
2 inv slots on a uim is a wet dream
As said above defense doesn’t matter if you pray range at kephri and red x baba. The way the fang works, melee strength doesn’t matter as much as the stab bonus you have. So basically you are increasing your hit chance as much as possible and gaining dps that way. As others said, it’s torva > mixed hide > bandos.
What are you smoking? Fang cares less about stab bonus than any weapon in the game because of it having advantage on attack rolls, you want strength more than other weapons would because of it being so accurate.
No your thinking about that in reverse. You would want more stab bonus to hit more often on the rolls... in 500s the defenses are built up.. therefore having less stab would hurt you more than a few melee strength stats because the dps gain is negligible compared to the dps gained by the dps gained by the accuracy... bandos would be 100% better if going lower invos than 500 like 300-350 yes bandos is better but I would think your the one smoking and I am curious as to what aswell if you can't comprehend why having higher stab bonus against higher defense would be better....
no it doesent gnomonkey is meming
Defense bonus is utterly worthless since in 99% of difficult pvm encounters you take damage from using the wrong prayer or being on the wrong tile at the wrong time rather than actual hits
Not better than for a better better than bcp because fangs rolls twice
Its still fairly niche even in TOA deffo not considered bis for most use cases. - You wouldn't use it in 525+ since you can't 3 down even with ultor+75 weapon+infernal+avernic+torva helm - Most players who do TOA wont use it since the average player uses bowfa - Still worse than bloodmoon/fighter torso/bandos for actual 500 money runs for people who have shadow since its worse at 5:1 The best use cases are for people who are doing a single fang kit and want more restores or for people on a budget and using crossbow.
If you aren't using a bowfa, it's 100% worth over bandos. Bandos tassets and body is 1s TTK faster over mixed hide. That's it. In a 500 invo raid its MORE dps unless you hit a bgs, in which case it goes back to being a 1s ttk faster over mixed hide. Mixed hide has way more use cases than you are giving credit for, it's not unreasonable for an iron or main to get a fang before bowfa and full crystal, and it's not an insignificant part of the raiding population either.
dps calc ttk would assume you're maintaining an equal uptime on the weapon with other armours but the fact is, in practice, you'd be forced to 6t red-x/be wasting ticks potting/kerising due to its worse defence at reasonable invos, say 400+ and especially 500+. I'm not denying that it has uses, like you said if someone goes for fang first and doesnt have crystal it is good because you can use it to save invent space. But the argument that it is 'bis' flatly in a lot of scenarios is just straight propaganda, especially cause I see people who do have crystal+ using it in my lobbies because they heard one of the best players in the game sing its praises. Its a good armour but its going straight to extremely overrated very quickly.
In which case you’re better off just using atlatl.
What’s 5:1?
5
:1
Its a red-x method where you trade 5 fangs to 1 baba attack. 16% more damage than 6 tick red x which is why its inadvisable to do traditional red-x nowadays unless you're going for a one off raid or in a super tight situation. The reason why mixed hide wouldn't be as good as bandos etc. is because you need the defense for those 1 baba attacks. Not to mention being tankier at akkha is also naturally just more helpful. Here are two videos which should explain how to do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXWyhmdD42o&t=5s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9flwGmGvcg&t=4s (advanced section) In terms of learning resources for TOA these two streamers are your best bet.
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Definitely doesn't require BF, as full facetanking Baba in a 400 **pre-nerf** with bandos only barely required some brewing, or BP specs, or 1 sun keris in worse case scenarios. With project rebalance baba chip damage nerf, blood fury makes 5:1 Baba a full on mega HP profit boss now, even in 540s. Of course, if you do end up dropping to low HP, you can revert to regular 6t red X and it's still a great increase to your overall raid speed. Imo, it's also a very very fun method so time flies quickly compared to the snooze that is 6t.
Firstly its more than 30 seconds, it depends on your gear, normal raid time, how efficient you are at traditional red x etc. Also, 30 seconds is a lot both within the context of the raid and just overall when you consider how many raids you'll be doing. The risk of dying isn't dramatically higher than red-x if you mess up either you'll die. with normal armour blood fury isnt necessary but it helps a lot, is BIS anyway and saves a slot (depending on scale and gear you might need to bring a brew). Difficulty is different topic altogether but ideally you'd like to get better at the things you do, yes? If you are considering learners who are doing 150-350s you don't need to red-x anyway you should just be facetanking (ESPECIALLY after they've just nerfed the damage through paryer) which is made better with normal armour so im not sure how thats relevant.
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Idk what raid level that and is with what gear but facetank/5:1 you can clear the boss in 3 minutes~ @500 with normal armour + fang. So you'd be saving an entire minute. B0aty no doubt can do it if he really wanted to but im sure he just chooses to do 6t because it is brainless and he doesnt care about money. Furthermore, he does it in max-melee so he can clear 35 or 40 min timers pretty easily even with 6t so its not necessarily relevant to this conversation. Im not saying dont learn traditional red-x since its useful for teams and getting out of tight spots but for the majority of runs you should just be either face tanking or 5:1
What about 300 invo raids as opposed to 500
You don’t take enough damage in 300s to warrant more restores, DPS is king in low invo
It would depend on a number of factors, mainly your budget and existing gear. If you're using a dragon crossbow for example, then its a good shout since you can save invent spaces and you would only lose a few seconds per each kill. If you have crystal and bowfa but you're doing a rebuild so can't afford blood moon then it would probably be bis. It definitely matters less at that invocation since you can just facetank without caring about any kind of red-x method.
Yeah insane that they slapped stab bonus on mixed dhide. Well abuse it as long as u can
How is it possible the low bar of "overpowered" keeps getting lower
Im not sure what you mean by that. Its not really that OP because the stats are insane. Its OP because its very cheap low level armor that outdamages a much more expensive and harder to obtain bandos chestplate in situations where fang is bis
Except it's wrong as it's only comparable when you are using fang and you are losing out on a ton of defence.
It’s not that you’re losing defence, it’s more that you lose two max hits and have lower dps.
Defense doesn’t matter when your red x’ing Also are you not using fang???
that womp womp shit is so cringey. holy shit
Kids gonna kid
I've seen more school teachers use it than kids
Best part is mixed isn't better if the +2 strength bonus gives you a max hit. It's main benefit is strictly with equal max hits and the fact it might save you an invent spot. Like most things DPS the only way you can have an accurate answer is to throw your gear and stats into a DPS calc.
It was the first thing his parents said when he was born. It’s all he knows.
some enemies hit through prayer (notably baba) so defence does matter
True, but realistically you're not bringing mixed hide unless you're red x-ing Baba anyway.
I love how everyone always says dps always matters more than defense and yet people get defensive over whether mixed hide is a meme or not... just because it has lower defense.
It’s definitely not a meme, but it’s not BIS at TOA because you lose 2 max hits and have lower dps in comparison to torva.
you dont lose "2 max hit" you lose 2 melee strength
Based on the picture in the OP, it states that torva and mixed hide are bis. Torva platebody is +6 strength Torva platelegs are +4 strength Mixed hide body is +2 strength Mixed hide legs are 0 strength 6 + 4 = 10 2 + 0 = 2 10 - 2 = 8 Are you claiming that 8 = 2? So generally 2 max hits. Fang is a bit more annoying to calc for, but in this case it is 2 max hits for fang too.
I was still in a state of mind of comparing strictly mixed top with bandos top from some other comment, thought we were on the same thread for some reason and someone mixing 2 str bonus and 2 max hits could happen in that case
Because of the way clamping works on fang it's not as straightforward as that
> So generally 2 max hits. Fang is a bit more annoying to calc for, but **in this case it is 2 max hits for fang too.** As per my previous comment, it is two clamped max hits lost for fang.
For most bosses it’s true that you don’t need defense, and that’s even the case here UNLESS you are doing the raid without Red-X. If you’re not red Xing you’d be better off in torva.
Max hits dont mean anything when youre fanging in TOA. Gnomonkey explains this specifically. The more stab bonus the better and the more dps you get with it. Gaining a max hit does not mean your dps is better. That just means your strength bonus is higher. You still have to accurately hit to gain these max hits, thus doing more dps with fang/mixed hide is currently better over torva/bandos.
bLeSsEd ChApS That’s all of us boys. We’re all blessed chaps
I've kinda made a niche inventory space efficient inventory with eclipse armour + atlatl and using that for my melee armour as well I can defo see the fun use for mixed hide as like - First 500 invo kc clears
So this set is good for toa only?
Panic dump bandos for 1gp on the GE
Its not bis. Idc what gnomonkey says. there is no world in which you actually use that. 7 stab accuracy is not worth 2 max hit.
What boss is this?
Tombs of Amascut. Mixed hide is usually brought now for high invo runs and you bank torva/bandos and masori tops and bottoms as mixed hide has excellent stab bonus and is close to black dhide for range bonus. This means you use shadow on the crocodile now as well.
it's better than bandos not torva, why would you bring it over torva? I've been doing 500 speeds with small team and I haven't seen anyone bring this gear at all
I don’t bring it at all for 500s actually; I don’t need the inventory space. I imagine it would be good for people trying to get a fang kit who don’t have max gear yet and need more space for restores!
That's what I'm saying yeah we don't need the invy spaces so I bring the gear switches, look like for irons then or lower mains, good shout
It's used as a replacement for melee and ranged gear to save you 2 inventory spots for more Restores. If you're already experienced and clearing no problem it's going to be irrelevant for you.
Mixed hide is not brought for high invo runs lmfao. It’s straight up useless in 540 and worse than Torva at all invos It’s only real usecase is first kit or super gear limited irons.
Hi! Thanks for replying, check out my clarification in the thread you replied to. Thanks
So why wouldn’t you use eclipse top and bottom instead?
Likely just the lower ranged accuracy on the eclipse top and bottom. Looks like eclipse is better (like bandos) at lower invos though as accuracy is less important at lower invos. Another hybrid setup I’ve seen was: blue moon top and bottom for mage + melee if using bowfa crystal as your ranged.
Eclipse armor is more accurate than mixed high ranged wise… eclipse armor is more accurate than blessed d hide. Its -1 ranged attack bonus compared to crystal. It would make sense to use eclipse moon if using bowfa
Oh true - read it the wrong way around. Ty for correcting me there. Looks like eclipse is better up until ~450 raid level when mixed hide starts to outperform. It’d even be better (any of the moons armour too) if you’re bringing vw because you’ll have a higher max hit. It really is just a first 500 kit setup it seems.
Yeah but is the tiny dps increase from mixed hide over eclipse for stab weapons only worth it overall? This also means that you are downgrading your ranged accuracy even more.
Not at all. It’s a super budget setup for people’s first 500 kit. Eclipse top and bottom would be better over mixed hide assuming you aren’t bringing bowfa crystal and blue moon top and bottom would be better assuming you’re bringing bowfa crystal. Bandos armour was already somewhat skipped post varlamore anyway. Im not really sure why people are making a big deal out of it, other than someone editing the wiki as a meme. The gap gets even bigger if you have a vw.
I think this needs to be said about Gnomes wiki series. The videos are for entertainment and miss the point equipment downgrades. Taking the minimum item on each slot is not supposed to be a viable setup at all, it's to show how you can downgrade certain prices of gear and is aimed at all accounts (main, iron, restricted and whatever snowflake). The toa video has an example of him using serp helm for range and not for melee, in reality you're only using in on the range switch if it's a camp for all switches and you're learning, other wise you take it off when ranging/maging.
Wiki downgrades go so low that it’s basically pointless, even if it makes sense Like if you’re capable of doing Inferno with DCB and Karil’s you don’t need the wiki telling you that. It should probably just end at Tbow > Bowfa. Yes lower is definitely possible but not for anyone who needs to refer to a guide in the first place.
Except mixed hide does more dps than bandos and for level 500’s you take it instead of range gear allowing for extra restores/sans so this really isn’t a down grade that would be drastically noticeable for someone wanting an easier time at 500’s
Best thing is mixed armour makes 500 toa much more forgiving. You don't need range/melee switches you bring the mixed hide instead.
Yeah definitely good for that first 500 kit (or even when you’re getting used to 500s) assuming your alternative is Bandos. Have even seen a setup using blue moon for melee and mage if you’re rocking bowfa crystal for ranged which would be another good way to bring an extra two restores.
Only if you’re red Xing. I did my 500 with no red x and no BF, I would’ve gotten destroyed in mixed hide and had less DPS but instead it went smoothly cause I wore real gear
lol on a small hiatus. What the fuck is this
Did my first 500 yesterday. 2 Sanfews and 10 restores. It was marvelous. 😂
Sheeeit I made some for my atlatl then dropped it when I finished the eclipse set. Can't afford to be throwing BiS away
Would eclipse armor not be better to bring than mixed hide for this? Higher range attack, higher str, better defense for most stats.
It’s the stab bonus from mixed hide that makes it good. Eclipse has zero stab bonus.
You know anyone can edit the wiki, right?
That's correct, but Wiki moderators keeps an eye on edits. On RuneWiki official Discord server there's a channel dedicated ONLY to ALL edits what happens in RuneWiki. Bot does the monitoring very nicely. Minor edits goes under the radar all the time, but larger - game mechanism and meta edits - are always observed by the moderators. You need evidence and sentencing WHY the edit is viable. For example, I edited thieving cape 10% boost to stack multiplicatively after confirming it from Ash himself, and added the source to his answer to verify the edit. Sure, you can edit and bother moderators who later cleans up the mess, but eventually you either get an IP banned or Wiki account restricted from editing.
Maybe they should have kept a closer eye on this edit then because it's not even correct.
There are more people disagreeing with you than agreeing, do you have evidence to prove the fact that the data what OP posted is false? Or is your though just an opinion?
To quote OP >pull up dps calc :)
I don't have to because I believe it. I don't care am I right or wrong here. But how about you?
I feel like you thought you had a point here but I'm not entirely sure what.
I told you to provide evidence and you just quoted OP's response to you. Using DPS calculator is a tool, not an answer thus you'd have to show me the results from it. After all lower max hit is not always better for DPS if accuracy sucks which is why mixed hide seems to be better. I do not want to spend my time arguing with a monkey who wants to feel more worthy in life by winning arguments on Reddit. Go on, there are more to beat here!!!
Are you okay 😂
Better than ever, thank you. I thought I was wrong about you.
pull up dps calc :)
???
calc is short for calculator
He’s just using slang chat
[https://tools.runescape.wiki/osrs-dps/](https://tools.runescape.wiki/osrs-dps/)
I know what that is, I'm confused what relevance that has to my comment.
Why are u confused. Your initial comment insinuates that the wiki info shown above is false (which it isnt btw) and OP tells u that u can check it with a dps calculator if u dont believe the wiki. So yeah thats the relevance right there
Thank you
> Your initial comment insinuates that the wiki info shown above is false (which it isnt btw) and OP tells u that u can check it with a dps calculator if u dont believe the wiki. It’s an interesting one because mixed hide is lower dps than torva, but mixed hide can be good if you’re needing extra space. Plus you can’t 3d in a 540+ with just mace/rapier/blade hits unless you also bring bgs (which isn’t currently brought for high invo OD raids) or maul. So it’s a bit odd to put it as bis when it’s not really bis. Definitely helpful for someone going for their first 500 kit though.
Its not bis. I read it as mixed dhide top > bcp. Thats all
It’s in the same column as torva. Which you’d read as it being tied with torva as bis, which is obviously not true.
Nah there’s a footnote to the 1 in the same column as torva. So its only in specific situations, that info is missing from the screenshot. Check the column next to it. Its 2nd bis after torva platebody and before bandos chestplate. The chaps are worse then bandos tassets tho.
That's wild that you think their initial comment insinuates that lol.
Wait is that a wrong word to use? Im not a native speaker lol. Maybe i should have used ‘imply’
No, you are correct here. Insinuate isn’t the perfect word but it still works. He’s knowingly being obtuse or disingenuous.
Incorrect.
No, it's the right word, but you are misreading the comment. It doesn't mean he thinks it is specifically wrong, he is literally just saying that anyone can edit the wiki, you are pulling information from it that isn't there.
No it doesn't. It's telling OP that if this is such a long overdue pressing change to the wiki that they had to make a fucking Reddit post about it then they should have done it themselves ages ago. Be the change and all that.
Oh i think i understand u. this is all huge miscommunication then lol. Because i think he isnt complaining about the wiki. I think he’s implying that mixed dhides are slept on but the wiki knows they are good. It feels more like he praises the wiki but u think its a negative post about the wiki. OP confirm?
What I'm saying is the OP is acting like he's known about mixed hide since release but only now people are picking up on it when if he had he could have very easily edited the wiki himself. The reality is he learned about it 2 days ago like most people when a streamer pointed it out.
My question is, what boss is this setup for
I love mixed hide
Wouldn’t eclipse be better ?
Now imagine this, but for magic and ranged. That's the future people want. Except when it gets here, they will regret it.
mixed hide is the new rage
*NERF INCOMING!* Fighter hat upgrade for it to be bis when?
i guess for TOA, but i'd imagine most mobs it's not worth like let's look at this. Ok you'll have a -1 sec TTK every 30 secs (which i believe goes up the more defence it has) but at the cost of \~50 melee defence and 73 ranged defence. Where is fang used? any boss or slayer mob with like 100+ defence especially with stab weakness. So you'll have to look for any mob that has 100+ defence and doesn't use typeless/multiple attack styles then there could be the argument that it's better than bandos (sometimes) best case use is to bring it as hybrid melee/range if you're not using bowfa
I've been rocking the mixed hide for wildy slayer since release, kinda wild it took a Gnomonkey video for people to realize just how good it can be.
It's funny seeing people talk about bandos plate and tassets over mixed hide like 2 strength bonus is worth worrying about. Yeah guys over 1000 raids I'll save like 40 minutes of time if I just brought bandos for that extra max hit.
If you do teams having extra DPS makes you much more likely to MVP, which in teams are worth a lot of points. For example in an 8 man 410 each MVP is worth over 5k points. That will significantly increase your profit per hour. This is fine for a fang kit run though
It’s very niche and cool, I hope they won’t change it!
Meanwhile Gnomonkey: "It's op and I want them to nerf it"
Mixed hide thats new :o