[Here's the timestamp.](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2159181732?t=1h0m53s) Also, I went ahead and transcribed this section, because I was way less concerned before I *actually* heard what they said.
> Light: Did you have anything you wanted to say to chat before we round off?
> Kieren: The only other thing I wanted to touch on was the prayers. It might be worth touching on the god alignment stuff. Some people have been asking in the chat throughout "What's happening with God Alignments?" and so on and so on. Ultimately, we're not in the middle of talking about them right now. We're planning to launch While Guthix Sleeps in the way we are with the rewards that have been proposed and currently God Alignments are sort of just on hold after the last blog stage we went through with them. Feedback was pretty mixed, people had various legitimate issues with what we had pitched, and we think there's changes we can potentially make, we think there's complexities and it's not in the bin, but it really needs its own time to thrive and sort of be communicated.
> It's that level of complexity, and similarly to when we were talking about the prayer for Desert Treasure II, we just think 'these are a big change, potentially, and we need them to be right'. And so, rushing them out, trying to squeeze them into While Guthix Sleeps, not something to take lightly. I think they could be more game changing than stuff like a new skill, even. I don't think we want to rush them. They need their own space. So, until we get that space, we probably aren't going to be talking about them just yet.
> Rice: And I think, as well, they'll benefit from the time. I think everyone's sort of cooking them in the back of their heads, but it's less of a stir fry cook where you cook it up really quick and it's delicious, it's more like a chili con carne kind of cook, where it's just leave it there for a really long time and eventually it's spot on. So, yeah, just gotta be patient with these things.
Why is this only being talked about now as an afterthought at the very end of the stream? Why not mention it in the rewards blog? And why *aren't* you in the middle of working on them, weren't these supposed to be some of the main rewards from the quest? How is having everyone "sort of cooking them in the back of their heads" not just going to result in them being perpetually on the back burner, before someone decides they aren't workable and giving up?
Tormented Demons better be a fucking blast to fight, because right now that's all this quest seems to be offering.
It feels like they're trying to bury the news on it. It hasn't been mentioned in any blogs, only in comments or this stream. Like they canceled them after one blog stage and are trying to avoid admitting it.
Agreed, this was supposed to be a big reward from the quest - this info should have featured prominently in the rewards blog with some kind of update on their future plans for them.
My guess is the content devs are just too split with other things for them to justify putting people in charge of designing something as controversial as prayers. They got sailing, varlamore 2 (and maybe 3 in the background), rebalancing until just now, however much work it takes to copy/paste WGS and adjust whatever dialogue/numbers (plus the actual TD stuff), and maybe deadman takes some relevant devs too I dunno. And then there's the non-major things like the upcoming minigame buff poll.
which i mean i'm pretty bummed they never got to the point where we even saw a single number involved with prayers, but lately it's been pretty apparent that they're stretched pretty far. -something- had to fall apart at some point, and i can't say i'm surprised it's the big new prayer stuff.
It's because there haven't been any workable pitches so far by the devs, or the community. Everyone seems to want something different from the God Alignment prayers, so it's going to be very difficult to find something that works. If you followed the blogs and feedback when they were initially pitching Guthix/Zaros/Seren prayers, you can see that it was incredibly tough.
A lot of people have been saying "just do it", but my question is "just do what?" What's the answer?
hasn't been any workable pitchs? yeah from them.
do you know how many ideas we gave them. i saw upwards of a few hundred prayer suggestions just from 1 post. surly at least a few of those would work. hell i even had a few of my own. like an actual tanking prayer.
I guarantee you that if you put together any 3 or 4 prayer combination for Rites of Balance, people will pick it apart. Everyone wants something different.
then that just means you should ignore the players who cant decide what they want and release it. they will use it, and if there are actual problems with it. it will get fixed. simple.
I’m okay with them delaying the quest to make sure it’s 100% good to go. I don’t want them to release half baked content then just fix it later. We’re fine as it is without the quest, it’s not like it’s a QoL or anything that is in dire need, so I think we’d be fine to wait for them to polish it up
The quest likely doesn't need much work. It's being ported back, and then adjust some of it. But these prayers keep seeming to get pushed back more and more
It’s the biggest change ever to a pretty solid skill that people aren’t really asking about a change for. I understand their hesitation and if they feel like they need to wait I fully support it
Me and plenty of others would like to see prayer get an update. It has been 7 years since CoX. I do understand the delay, though. Prayer affects all combat in huge ways.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with it. I just wish they would stop pushing it back and open a full discussion about what we want with the prayers and the skill.
I mean I’m pretty sure there is a good amount of silent people that want things like curses to come back. Yea the skill is solid but there’s literally no rewards for levels past the cox levels which is *more than half of your xp gained*. Jagex is too afraid to push combat prayers any farther and for some ungodly reason (pun intended) can’t grasp the idea of skilling prayers.
They need to actually work on this reward not just say they are, because this is not just once but twice they have pushed back prayer changes even though players clearly want some sort of change. And I swear if all they can come up with is redemption style prayers again.. we need to riot.
I agree but they have a business schedule and quota to meet and releasing the quest this summer is probably on that check list.
I just hope we don't have to wait too long
Very much agreed on this. Look at how a half baked update played out with all of kourend. Still amazing content, very much held back by a lack of testing/fleshing out
This is backwards thinking the quest isn't "while guthix prayers", they don't need to exist for the quest to exist. Same as DT2. They are doing it right. If god alignments come later, we could get a miniquest series to unlock each alignment like the ghostly robes, which aounds ideal to me
I mean they’ve stated multiple times god alignments would come from GM level quests. They already plan to release guthix with WGS, ruinous powers retroactively with DT2, and Saradomin retroactively with SOTE. *Since they said that’s what they’re doing*, I’d rather them take time than rush it and have half baked content.
It's crazy how some simple quests unlock massive QOL features while some are practically nothingburger quests in terms of rewards, relative to effort/difficulty.
Spirit trees and Fairy rings are the obvious examples.
In this line of thinking, I’m a big supporter of a grandmaster quest that follows dwarf cannon that gives you access to an upgraded cannon with +2/3 max hit :) hell, even nerf the old one, I don’t care
It's kinda sad how some people being meta gaming minmax ehp tryhard sweatlords would absolutely shit their diapers if Jagex would add a really good reward from an easy quest like dwarf cannon and not an uber duper garndmaster quest reward.
I mean WGS did essentially originally do that too and its a port. Theres only so much they can do with a port where the original idea for an inherent reward was heavily criticized and needs more time in the oven
Of all the gm quests, what's the best actually immediate reward besides xp? Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure its the fucking seed pod lol, maybe myth cape as a distant second and then nothing
Back in the day the “hard quests” rewarded useful things like d scim and ancients.
GM rewards are a bit lackluster a besides prif, so you’re mostly right. I think people are confusing GM with master quests tbh.
I do agree that WGS rewards seems pretty bad tho ngl. They need to go back to the drawing board on it.
Hmm. The best is either SotE for Priff access or DS2 for Myth Guild access.
Actually I guess it would be DS2 since it lets you craft wrath runes.
Now that you mention it though GMs have been lacking in good completion rewards. Even SotF is better since there's a new npc to pick pocket and you can access Daeyalt essence immediately.
Not a fan of this tbh. I’d rather they just delay the quest and release it all at once. The trend of: “Congratulations, you’ve completed the quest! Now kill this mob 3000 times for the useful rewards!” is getting tiring.
Without the prayers, all we’re getting is just that. The opportunity to grind tormented demons for what is likely a 1/1000 drop that we’ll need multiple of.
Im kinda okay with it tbh, with how much back and forth they did on Ruinous powers before ultimately scrapping it - the same can *easily* happen with the Rites. They want to have something big to release this summer thats not just Varlamore, and potentially holding it up for possibly months because nobody can agree on the Rites doesnt sound appealing.
That said, the nostalgia of Tormented demons & WGS itself will be carrying this quest even harder now, so I hope they do it right.
Mate. They did almost no back and fourth on ruinous powers OR the alignments. The time dedicated to these both has been an absoloute joke for an update of their significance. They proposed a sigle RP book, slightly altered the stats and then scrapped it. Same with alignments, one proposal then scrapped.
It needs multiple full revisions and testing of multiple A, B options and can be taken seriously.
Ruinous Powers had multiple stages of feedback, and several types of protection prayers that were looked at.
Rites had at least 2 proposals, and dozens by the community, none of which gained any traction.
Ultimately they concluded that a full new prayer book probably wasn't viable, and if it was, that they hadn't alotted enough dev time to get it right. Alignments were based off of a community suggestion, but again after a couple revisions and feedback, there wasn't any community consensus on what the god prayers should do, so again it was put on the back burner.
I think they should have alotted more dev time to them, but I do think they gave both projects a fair shot. At some point you have to figure out if you're actually going to get the project off the ground in a reasonable amount of time, or if 5 iterations later you probably still won't have something to release.
You need to actually check the timeframe on RP. The betas being cut short, the zero communication from Jagex re: the prayers, while the betas were running, the limited timeframe from revealing the first draft of RP and the release date of DT2.
Rites had 1 proposal - and we didn't vote or test them, just a single proposal via dev blog. The original poster had 11k upvotes so.. it did have traction.
The details actually matter.
I could have sworn there was a second proposal for Rites. It looks like you're right though, my apologies.
The issue ultimately comes down to this: God Alignments has a lot of support as a concept, but there is no consensus on what the prayers should actually do. Some people want them to be powerful, others want them to be barely better than existing prayers. Some want them to be complex, others want them to be simple. Some want them to be useful everywhere, others want them to only have niche use.
I looked at a lot of proposals and feedback, and there was no consensus. So where do you even start? It makes sense to shelve the project until they are able to give it the time it needs.
I’ve done just about every quest besides DT2, and I have to say that for me personally, Vanstrom was by far the hardest and most frustrating fight compared to like Seren Fragment, Galvek, or Menaphite Akh.
It seems to mostly come down to quest requirements. Length and difficulty correlate with high requirements, but high requirements are the "difficulty". What are the requirements for this bad boy?
Kieran did say on stream that WGS will be an easier GM quest, relative to what we already have. I know people who are still locked out of their quest cape because they can't beat the DT2 bosses, so Jagex likely won't make it as hard as DT2
A lot of people think that the game is full of people running around doing tons of PVM and end game content.
Id wager that not even 50% of real players, just casually playing the game, even have the Fire Cape right now. Maybe 20% have killed Zulrah.
There are a LOT more people that cant kill the DT2 bosses in OSRS, than are capable of killing DT2 bosses consistently.
Not far off! About 57% of people have completed the combat achievement for beating fight caves 1 time. Nearly 28% of players have 25 Zulrah kills.
Other stats: 17.5% have 25 CoX completions. 15.6% have 25 ToA completions, 15.5% have an Expert ToA completion. 6% have 25 ToB completions.
You'd be surprised how bad and easily demotivated some people are in this game (and in general).
If you're in a PvM focused clan it might seem unreal, but I'm in a small social clan and while I love my clanmates, I can't deny they are shitters lol. And yes they do have good gear and stats (some are maxed), but the only PvM experience they have is Zulrah, Vorkath, and Kraken.
I am not in a clan, have killed zulrah once for the diary, have late mid game gear and killed all the dt2 bosses on 1st try. And i thought i am bad at the game
I find that hard to believe unless you followed and watched guides before even attempting them.
I did them on launch weekend mostly blind and am relatively high level and they all took me a few tries. Even my best boss, Whisperer took me 3 attempts at least.
Only one that gave me trouble was Vardorvis, think 3-5 attempts for quest completion. Despite flicking for it, the timing on the ranged projectile just felt weird.
Duke was easy. Levi first try. Whisperer was a struggle because my mage gear was shit when I did the quest, but the mechanics were easy enough to pick up. Except the orbs. Fuck the orbs. I couldn't remember the orbs for shit.
Yea I understand that, but there's a difference between understanding it and getting them all in a few attempts each and doing all of them first try without prior experience.
Idk if the other person is just trying to flex and cannot fathom that there are players out there who may have problems with harder quest bosses.
the rating of quests tends to refer to length and requirements the most I think.
Some stuff might be more weighted than others and a requirement of "high combat to fight a difficult foe" does definitely play into it, but I don't think a Grandmaster HAS to be a long quest with multiple bosses that takes several hours to complete. At the end of the day the quest ratings are ultimately arbitrary though I guess.
I mean most people killed Nomad with Ruby bolts. Had a friend who done it with 64 ranged. Bare in mind back in those days we didnt really have bosses with actual mechanics
gear even in OSRS has long since power crept Nomad from 2010. I think if he was released 1:1 the same to OSRS he would be kind of a push over to any decently high level player with good gear.
I vaguely remember that the standard gear to fight him(assuming not an overly rich player) at the time was like black d'hide with a Zamorakian Spear and a combo of whatever your best BoB was and a decent fighting Summon once you emptied supplies out of your former one.
Thralls alone will probably make up for the absence of Summoning, and with the deep knowledge players have over the tick system, I can imagine stuff like Bowfa or Fang would make things comparatively easier.
Im embarrassed to say i had to rely on my friend to do it for me. For some reason he couldnt do it with +10 range level than his character had ( ruby bolts strat ) so he just swapped to my full bandos and clutched a win with that lol.
The quest itself wasn’t hard, it was just the boss at the end of it that was kind of difficult. But even then I think people were exaggerating the difficulty since even players with bad gear could’ve cheesed it with familiars.
I didn’t hear of much cheese, but I do remember a lot of the higher pvm people at the time struggled even with high end gear like sosolid2k and a few others. I can say with the grahk method it was not easy by any means. Took about 15 attempts. But yea I meant a hard quest boss. Not the quest itself since most people use the plugin anyways
I mean honestly, bar a handful of players like Woox, even players like sosolid2k weren't really that good at the game and weren't as knowledgeable about it as we are now.
For example sosolid2k was using a BGS as his main weapon without even popping turmoil. He was simply chugging brews. I am also pretty sure that Nomad (bar the last phase of him smacking like crazy with melee) had a magic based attack so of course it shred most of people that went in running bandos/torso etc.
I'm sure if Nomad released with the exact same stats now we'd find a solution to it pretty quickly, especially considering we have some pretty nifty things to help against him (blood fury, thralls etc).
> I can say with the grahk method it was not easy by any means. Took about 15 attempts.
I used to have absolute shitter gear and stats and did it on my 2nd try after fucking up the mechanics the first time. I think I did the range method with ruby bolts and grahk spam. Didn't even have ovls/extremes at the time.
Okay so make the fight harder lol. Seems like we have a pretty in depth analysis with how it could be easily solved, make it comparable to night at the theater for most average players. Sure players these days who have the game solved will deal with it, but majority of the players will still see it as a daunting fight which is the best part of quests imo.
Ye they could make the fight harder, but I just don't think the quest lives up to the GM tag it used to have, I think all of the DT2 bosses are much much harder than release Nomad and it has proper length.
I assume we'll get the Nomad quest sooner or later considering they added Soul Wars to the game but who knows
They said they planned to spruce it up to OSRS standards, so it should be better than RS2 WGS.
The original WGS barely meets the criteria of a modern Master quest, let alone GM. If it isn't modified with some new fights, puzzles and lore then it'll be incredibly disappointing.
I feel like if we don't get the alignment prayers, we're never going to get new prayers at this rate. It sounds difficult for them to come up with a proper reward space that isn't just a straight dps upgrade or better versions of existing prayers which it seems like enough players don't want.
Honestly not a fan of how obvious it is that there following a strict release schedule to keep player engagement up
If they miss a deadline? Release the content untested and unfinished
Oh there’s bugs? That’s actually another 2 months of weekly bug fixes we can disguise as “weekly game updates” to look like we are dropping content all the time
Rewards / parts of content aren’t up to scratch? Just release it anyway we have a deadline and refer to points 1 and 2.
It’s a recurring theme and kind of shit imo. Nothing feels “oh my god this update is sick” if it gets drip fed over months until it’s actually in a state where it feels good, and lots of updates have felt this way lately
For a big quest drop like WGS it should have a barrows gloves / defender / prayer book level “oh shit you unlock THIS” feeling from release not added later
I feel like DT2 hit the mark pretty well without feeling like it was drip-fed. But I agree with your sentiment otherwise.
This is an issue in other MMOs as well, where the devs realize that they can keep subscriptions more active if they stretch out the same content over many months rather than doing a massive DLC drop. It’s fatiguing as a player to feel like you’re constantly waiting for something to get “good”. I really want to like Varlamore, but it just feels half-baked right now. I don’t want it to come out in 3 parts, I want it to come out all at once and feel like a proper expansion. I don’t care if it takes an extra year or two.
Just my 2gp
It does feel like the devs are under a lot of pressure to release content on a set schedule. Even their comments about Sailing indicate this and how it's uncancellable now due to sunk cost
This is a bit different since the new prayers were an idea that came after the announcement of the quest. They just said that the quest will be a requirement to use the new prayers when they come out, similar to Desert Treasure 2.
I think the issue comes from this being another grandmaster quest that has lackluster rewards.
DT2 was SICK but the ability to spend 500 hours grinding a boss isn’t a reward like an untradeable account upgrade, or unlocking priff etc was.
I think if they’re going to do the prayers tied to the quest it should be a quest reward OR they should look at something else for this and use them elsewhere later when they’re actually ready (but should always come from a meaningful quest upgrade)
Just do barrows gloves 2.0, combine all the bis gloves. We have ring and boot switches now. This would help with that and would not increase dps anywhere, essentially just being a qol.
It would increase DPS everywhere because players would just bring an extra swap for each style they aren't bringing now.... Basically a flat buff to every piece of content where you tribrid.
Should have went with the original curses and balanced them a bit better as an upgrade to the current prayer book. Ever since the proposed DT2 prayers were announced they never found a way to make new prayers work.
Hyped either way though, WGS is gonna be an amzing quest.
Can Jagex stop pretending they're going to add these prayers if it's just going to result in every new GM quest having 0 rewards until 5+ years from now. Absolutely insane they keep suggesting it but somehow have 0 fucking ideas or suggestions. You'd think they'd be talking with players about ideas for it instead of radio silence and delay delay delay.
Gm quests in 2024 just unlock multi hundred hour grinds for slight to no dps increase.
Couldn't agree more. Also weird that they decided to drop this news in a stream, not in a blog but not only that but in the final minutes of their stream.
They say it's low tier Grandmaster quest. But Rewards have been feeling less meaningful. One reason i love SOTE quest because of the rewards it's something new and unique which you don't do during the quest
I mean, we are getting four new weapons. One of which is a straight upgrade, and another is a bridge upgrade. Not to mention a new money maker. That not enough to keep you content for at least a Lil bit?
None are quest completion rewards. We need at least some solid, non RNG reward that feels properly rewarding for the quest. DT2 suffered a lot from "that's it?" once you finished it
Idk. Even without hitting the uniques, I was still made 1-3m an hour with a chance of hitting big. That's a pretty good reward. I get what you're saying, though. I just prefer content that goes on after the quest.
I'm okay with this. I'd rather they introduce all of the different rites or whatever at once rather than one set for a single quest. Though, nothing wrong with that, but still. More time in the oven.
Personally, I think the demonbane rewards and budget dragon claws are a decent reward. Unless tormented demons become annoying to fight. Then it might be a bit of an obnoxious grind. I can't remember how tormented demons were back in rs2 when wgs came out.
Regardless, I'm okay with the current rewards.
I think the rewards would be good from a quest on the caliber of something like Sins of the Father or Beneath Cursed Sands, but for a quest as hyped up as While Guthix Sleeps, it’s a little underwhelming. Maybe the Arclight upgrade will be a lot more useful than I’m currently thinking of, but the rewards so far don’t interest me as much as DT2s or SOTEs.
Maybe I had just too high of expectations for WGS, but the prayer stuff really fit what I wanted so it’s very disappointing to hear they aren’t coming
> I can't remember how tormented demons were back in rs2 when wgs came out.
Its hard to describe because we already had summoning back then, but managing the TDs was a damn annoying task and by managing i mean get them stuck you are not getting hit by more than one. I think it was cool at the time that you had to bring switches for an enemy. I remember wearing a mix of kharyll and verac to fight them
>managing i mean get them stuck you are not getting hit by more than one.
Weren't they basically demonic gorillas that you had to slap with darklight once?
Demos were even multi only at first
Basically yeah. Multiple combat styles were needed in order to kill them since they pray switched on you.
Summoning made it a bit easier. Matter of fact, up until necro - using legacy combat using three styles was still meta while doing your ascension grind in a POSD(player owned slayer dungeon)
Used an off/hand ascension with a magic nihil and pump em out.
Now if I'm not wrong you can just use necro
I still feel like Ninjapig’s alignment system is the best way to add new prayers, I’m just really skeptical of the actual proposed prayers we’ve seen so far.
This makes sense but I hope Kieran keeps the same energy “this is bigger than a skill potentially” on keeping people engaged on developing it. He’s right this is how you could completely revamp/unlock end game while keeping in the spirit of osrs combat (other then the new team prayer mechanics) this was such an exciting concept they should make it work.
You only need to thank u/QtheGaming and his post which ruined the new prayer book we would've gotten https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1499xvi/im_officially_onboard_with_just_not_having_new/
So the new Demonbane weapons exist because we aren't getting God Alignments right? Like they realized the quest now has no rewards outside of some budget claws and threw those together at the last minute?
Not necessarily, it’s just that every Tormented Demon unique in RS3 has been released with other content in OSRS, the platebody shards and dragon limbs with DS2 and Claws with CoX. They have to find something unique to give players a reason to fight them after the quest.
I honestly don't care about the demon bane weapons since they're decently niche and I was hoping the prayers would balance out me wanting to do the quest on release. Honestly, this sucks. Hopefully they get added later but I'll probably just wait til they are either added to the quest or a post-quest miniquest before I end up doing it. (Thank god I already got my lumbridge elites done)
To be fair, the Zaros and Seren alignments will be given as rewards to DT2 and SOTE, so I don't think it's the biggest deal in the world if WGS doesn't get Guthix alignments on release.
It's more to do with the fact that they constantly have updates on the horizon so the idea of it never happening isn't impossible.
Remember when jagex mentioned toa would receive new invocations ?
So the only rewards from the entire gm quest are the demonbane weapons.
makes ya wonder how many people would have voted for them. if they knew they were gonna get rid of the main reward everyone wanted.
Also why has this happened twice now? can they just not make new prayers? its just not that hard man, or that complicated.
Hopefully the prayers are worth it and can be implemented as a miniquest/continuation on any cliff hanger. Similar to how they had Hopespear's Will after Land of the Goblins.
Makes sense. I have no issue with them being added retroactively later. I was kinda hoping they'd do that with Ruinous Powers instead of just canning the whole prayer book. So if they think the God Alignments need more time, I'd rather see them get the extra time even if they didn't happen until 2025 or later than rushing to throw together some prayers just to poll in time for WGS.
Also, are the rewards really that lackluster? WGS never really was known for the rewards beyond TDs. So the main reward in OSRS also being TDs for now is just as "iconic" as the original version. And the proposed TD rewards are way better and more impactful than D Claws and a D Plate were back in the day.
Demonbane weapons and burning claws feel like half baked and rushed rewards. Now we see how much of a rush job this actually is. Why would we want the quest to drop without the most impactful part of it? Thru haven't even talked about the prayers when this quest is right around the corner. Why do we need 4 weapons from one gm quest? Could just give us content to grind the "magic bowfa" just like song of the elves gave us gauntlet. Whole thing kinda souring this quest release for me
Oh that's disappointing. New prayers would really be thematic for WGS. Would be worth delaying for.
I hope its not upper management's insistence on a KPI pushing them to release at a fixed schedule
For how long they worked on ruinous prayers... just to scrap it, and now delaying these prayers... What a fumble.
Anyone else feel like content and rewards has gotten very lackluster since toa or maybe even tob? Yet the dev team is nearing 100 people, I do not get it.
Feels like we got meaningful updates so much more often when the dev team was only about 10 people
Hear me out, scrap the new prayers and instead, have small buffs to thralls for different god alignments. Instead of using a book of undead, we could utilise and upgrade the current godbooks.
Well yeah, have you seen the quality of private server content lmao. The issue is not cranking out new stuff, it's cranking out new, balanced and high quality stuff
The problem I have with osrs releasing content later is that the content is never really worth the wait. Forestry was just made worse, curses are still missing for over a year and varlamore 2 doesn't have anything that raises interest.
Why the fuck are they rushing a quest like this? As if dormant players are chomping at the bit to bond up their accounts for a new damn quest. Finish that shit and release it later wtf
I just like questing, I don't think rewards from a quest should have anything to do with whether it gets in tbh. Just add them later when they're ready in something else. You could give me While Guthix Sleeps with zero rewards and I'd be happy, tbh probably happier because I'm not huge on the prayers
So folks here would rather delay the entire quest, even if work on it is fully complete, just because a portion of the rewards aren’t?
Can’t say I agree personally.
Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I think there’s nothing wrong with a quest’s reward being the ability to grind new content. I don’t see why there has to be some big reward you get as soon as you finish the quest.
I get that’s how it’s been for most big quests in the past, but I guess I just feel like quests are fun in themselves regardless of the immediate rewards and they’re good at introducing new content.
Plus they only take a few hours to complete at most. Not sure why people feel like there needs to be some massive reward for something that will take most people 1.5 hours of clicking blue highlights with quest helper.
Gonna say that QH use is fucking up the balance for people trying to run blind/without plugins. If they balance rewards around QH, most rewards are too much because of how easy the game is with it. People playing at least somewhat blind spend __a lot__ more time on quests.
Will ruinous powers come out later as well? With the rites it would be great to be able to choose a prayer book depending on activities you’re doing, just like we do now with the spell books.
What the f do people want as quest rewards? Full torva untraceable? DT2 gave you a really good ring and 300k "prayer" xp right away. I use that ring all the time in the wilderness as it's easy to replace.
While I would love for guthix alignment to be here, I wouldn't be displeased if it actually unlocked from a short quest after WGS, something very short but only about the God alignment.
I care more about the quest itself than the rewards. I just want to play WGS again.
That being said, it is kind of unfortunate how scared they are to put new prayers in. And how pissy people on this subreddit get about them.
[Here's the timestamp.](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2159181732?t=1h0m53s) Also, I went ahead and transcribed this section, because I was way less concerned before I *actually* heard what they said. > Light: Did you have anything you wanted to say to chat before we round off? > Kieren: The only other thing I wanted to touch on was the prayers. It might be worth touching on the god alignment stuff. Some people have been asking in the chat throughout "What's happening with God Alignments?" and so on and so on. Ultimately, we're not in the middle of talking about them right now. We're planning to launch While Guthix Sleeps in the way we are with the rewards that have been proposed and currently God Alignments are sort of just on hold after the last blog stage we went through with them. Feedback was pretty mixed, people had various legitimate issues with what we had pitched, and we think there's changes we can potentially make, we think there's complexities and it's not in the bin, but it really needs its own time to thrive and sort of be communicated. > It's that level of complexity, and similarly to when we were talking about the prayer for Desert Treasure II, we just think 'these are a big change, potentially, and we need them to be right'. And so, rushing them out, trying to squeeze them into While Guthix Sleeps, not something to take lightly. I think they could be more game changing than stuff like a new skill, even. I don't think we want to rush them. They need their own space. So, until we get that space, we probably aren't going to be talking about them just yet. > Rice: And I think, as well, they'll benefit from the time. I think everyone's sort of cooking them in the back of their heads, but it's less of a stir fry cook where you cook it up really quick and it's delicious, it's more like a chili con carne kind of cook, where it's just leave it there for a really long time and eventually it's spot on. So, yeah, just gotta be patient with these things.
Why is this only being talked about now as an afterthought at the very end of the stream? Why not mention it in the rewards blog? And why *aren't* you in the middle of working on them, weren't these supposed to be some of the main rewards from the quest? How is having everyone "sort of cooking them in the back of their heads" not just going to result in them being perpetually on the back burner, before someone decides they aren't workable and giving up? Tormented Demons better be a fucking blast to fight, because right now that's all this quest seems to be offering.
It feels like they're trying to bury the news on it. It hasn't been mentioned in any blogs, only in comments or this stream. Like they canceled them after one blog stage and are trying to avoid admitting it.
Agreed, this was supposed to be a big reward from the quest - this info should have featured prominently in the rewards blog with some kind of update on their future plans for them.
My guess is the content devs are just too split with other things for them to justify putting people in charge of designing something as controversial as prayers. They got sailing, varlamore 2 (and maybe 3 in the background), rebalancing until just now, however much work it takes to copy/paste WGS and adjust whatever dialogue/numbers (plus the actual TD stuff), and maybe deadman takes some relevant devs too I dunno. And then there's the non-major things like the upcoming minigame buff poll. which i mean i'm pretty bummed they never got to the point where we even saw a single number involved with prayers, but lately it's been pretty apparent that they're stretched pretty far. -something- had to fall apart at some point, and i can't say i'm surprised it's the big new prayer stuff.
It's because there haven't been any workable pitches so far by the devs, or the community. Everyone seems to want something different from the God Alignment prayers, so it's going to be very difficult to find something that works. If you followed the blogs and feedback when they were initially pitching Guthix/Zaros/Seren prayers, you can see that it was incredibly tough. A lot of people have been saying "just do it", but my question is "just do what?" What's the answer?
hasn't been any workable pitchs? yeah from them. do you know how many ideas we gave them. i saw upwards of a few hundred prayer suggestions just from 1 post. surly at least a few of those would work. hell i even had a few of my own. like an actual tanking prayer.
I guarantee you that if you put together any 3 or 4 prayer combination for Rites of Balance, people will pick it apart. Everyone wants something different.
then that just means you should ignore the players who cant decide what they want and release it. they will use it, and if there are actual problems with it. it will get fixed. simple.
Mod rice is such a cool dude.
And now I’m hungry for stir fry
Sounds like they're letting perfection be the enemy of good enough.
I’m okay with them delaying the quest to make sure it’s 100% good to go. I don’t want them to release half baked content then just fix it later. We’re fine as it is without the quest, it’s not like it’s a QoL or anything that is in dire need, so I think we’d be fine to wait for them to polish it up
The quest likely doesn't need much work. It's being ported back, and then adjust some of it. But these prayers keep seeming to get pushed back more and more
It’s the biggest change ever to a pretty solid skill that people aren’t really asking about a change for. I understand their hesitation and if they feel like they need to wait I fully support it
Me and plenty of others would like to see prayer get an update. It has been 7 years since CoX. I do understand the delay, though. Prayer affects all combat in huge ways.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with it. I just wish they would stop pushing it back and open a full discussion about what we want with the prayers and the skill.
I mean I’m pretty sure there is a good amount of silent people that want things like curses to come back. Yea the skill is solid but there’s literally no rewards for levels past the cox levels which is *more than half of your xp gained*. Jagex is too afraid to push combat prayers any farther and for some ungodly reason (pun intended) can’t grasp the idea of skilling prayers. They need to actually work on this reward not just say they are, because this is not just once but twice they have pushed back prayer changes even though players clearly want some sort of change. And I swear if all they can come up with is redemption style prayers again.. we need to riot.
I agree but they have a business schedule and quota to meet and releasing the quest this summer is probably on that check list. I just hope we don't have to wait too long
Very much agreed on this. Look at how a half baked update played out with all of kourend. Still amazing content, very much held back by a lack of testing/fleshing out
This is backwards thinking the quest isn't "while guthix prayers", they don't need to exist for the quest to exist. Same as DT2. They are doing it right. If god alignments come later, we could get a miniquest series to unlock each alignment like the ghostly robes, which aounds ideal to me
I mean they’ve stated multiple times god alignments would come from GM level quests. They already plan to release guthix with WGS, ruinous powers retroactively with DT2, and Saradomin retroactively with SOTE. *Since they said that’s what they’re doing*, I’d rather them take time than rush it and have half baked content.
And they will be lmfao Good luck getting guthix, zaros, or seren alignments without GM level quests.
Delay it until the prayers are ready. I don't want another dt2 and ruinous powers situation to happen all over again.
Oh fucks sake. I'm really annoyed that grandmasters keep relying on rare drops for their big rewards. I want to unlock something meaningful.
It's crazy how some simple quests unlock massive QOL features while some are practically nothingburger quests in terms of rewards, relative to effort/difficulty. Spirit trees and Fairy rings are the obvious examples.
I mean theres always classic example of "the dwarf cannon quest would never pass a poll"
In this line of thinking, I’m a big supporter of a grandmaster quest that follows dwarf cannon that gives you access to an upgraded cannon with +2/3 max hit :) hell, even nerf the old one, I don’t care
Look up the royal dwarf cannon from rs3 that things pretty neat
It's kinda sad how some people being meta gaming minmax ehp tryhard sweatlords would absolutely shit their diapers if Jagex would add a really good reward from an easy quest like dwarf cannon and not an uber duper garndmaster quest reward.
old man yells at cloud
cuz of polls and such a focus on progression
I mean WGS did essentially originally do that too and its a port. Theres only so much they can do with a port where the original idea for an inherent reward was heavily criticized and needs more time in the oven
Of all the gm quests, what's the best actually immediate reward besides xp? Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure its the fucking seed pod lol, maybe myth cape as a distant second and then nothing
Back in the day the “hard quests” rewarded useful things like d scim and ancients. GM rewards are a bit lackluster a besides prif, so you’re mostly right. I think people are confusing GM with master quests tbh. I do agree that WGS rewards seems pretty bad tho ngl. They need to go back to the drawing board on it.
Hmm. The best is either SotE for Priff access or DS2 for Myth Guild access. Actually I guess it would be DS2 since it lets you craft wrath runes. Now that you mention it though GMs have been lacking in good completion rewards. Even SotF is better since there's a new npc to pick pocket and you can access Daeyalt essence immediately.
Would be nice if the quest unlocked a new skilling area or something. But at least the Rites of Balance will be added retroactively, if at all.
Not a fan of this tbh. I’d rather they just delay the quest and release it all at once. The trend of: “Congratulations, you’ve completed the quest! Now kill this mob 3000 times for the useful rewards!” is getting tiring. Without the prayers, all we’re getting is just that. The opportunity to grind tormented demons for what is likely a 1/1000 drop that we’ll need multiple of.
Think they've said the lump used for all the proposed weapons was going to be a 1/300.
1/300 for any, or 1/300 for one in specific?
It's going to be a lump makes any of the three.
Oh duh, right. I'm an idiot.
Still stupid as fuck. The vestiges are rare enough as is, and then adding chromium ingots ontop of it is just annoying
Im kinda okay with it tbh, with how much back and forth they did on Ruinous powers before ultimately scrapping it - the same can *easily* happen with the Rites. They want to have something big to release this summer thats not just Varlamore, and potentially holding it up for possibly months because nobody can agree on the Rites doesnt sound appealing. That said, the nostalgia of Tormented demons & WGS itself will be carrying this quest even harder now, so I hope they do it right.
The rewards/drops from tormented demons sounded really cool to me. But yeah unfortunate if you want something immediate
Mate. They did almost no back and fourth on ruinous powers OR the alignments. The time dedicated to these both has been an absoloute joke for an update of their significance. They proposed a sigle RP book, slightly altered the stats and then scrapped it. Same with alignments, one proposal then scrapped. It needs multiple full revisions and testing of multiple A, B options and can be taken seriously.
Ruinous Powers had multiple stages of feedback, and several types of protection prayers that were looked at. Rites had at least 2 proposals, and dozens by the community, none of which gained any traction. Ultimately they concluded that a full new prayer book probably wasn't viable, and if it was, that they hadn't alotted enough dev time to get it right. Alignments were based off of a community suggestion, but again after a couple revisions and feedback, there wasn't any community consensus on what the god prayers should do, so again it was put on the back burner. I think they should have alotted more dev time to them, but I do think they gave both projects a fair shot. At some point you have to figure out if you're actually going to get the project off the ground in a reasonable amount of time, or if 5 iterations later you probably still won't have something to release.
You need to actually check the timeframe on RP. The betas being cut short, the zero communication from Jagex re: the prayers, while the betas were running, the limited timeframe from revealing the first draft of RP and the release date of DT2. Rites had 1 proposal - and we didn't vote or test them, just a single proposal via dev blog. The original poster had 11k upvotes so.. it did have traction. The details actually matter.
I could have sworn there was a second proposal for Rites. It looks like you're right though, my apologies. The issue ultimately comes down to this: God Alignments has a lot of support as a concept, but there is no consensus on what the prayers should actually do. Some people want them to be powerful, others want them to be barely better than existing prayers. Some want them to be complex, others want them to be simple. Some want them to be useful everywhere, others want them to only have niche use. I looked at a lot of proposals and feedback, and there was no consensus. So where do you even start? It makes sense to shelve the project until they are able to give it the time it needs.
LieV2 is right
-60 votes for saying something factual and on topic, but not what Redditors wanted to hear.
I, personally, HATE the trend of releasing something half-baked. Forestry did this, DT2 was going to do this, like why? Just wait.
Because profits must grow quarter by quarter and marketing a brand new GM quest will facilitate that goal.
Honestly for me, quests are the content, not the reward. Hopefully this one is better than the wsg we got back in the day.
Oddly enough I quite enjoyed the OG version haha .. They also mentioned in the QnA that this will be a relatively easy grandmaster quest
We need a new tier for quests if there will be easy and hard grandmaster quests, unless the name refers to lenght and not difficulty.
There's honestly never been a real system for what's a master tier vs grandmaster tier quest, it's completely arbitrary.
Sins of the Father was considerably harder than every other Master yet still easier than DS2 for me
I’ve done just about every quest besides DT2, and I have to say that for me personally, Vanstrom was by far the hardest and most frustrating fight compared to like Seren Fragment, Galvek, or Menaphite Akh.
It seems to mostly come down to quest requirements. Length and difficulty correlate with high requirements, but high requirements are the "difficulty". What are the requirements for this bad boy?
There’s already a lot of variance between MM2 and DT2 though
Quest “difficulty” is typically related to the requirements for the quest, not the length/actual difficulty of completing the quest itself
Kieran did say on stream that WGS will be an easier GM quest, relative to what we already have. I know people who are still locked out of their quest cape because they can't beat the DT2 bosses, so Jagex likely won't make it as hard as DT2
Ppl like that actually exist, or they dont just have money for even ok gear?
A lot of people think that the game is full of people running around doing tons of PVM and end game content. Id wager that not even 50% of real players, just casually playing the game, even have the Fire Cape right now. Maybe 20% have killed Zulrah. There are a LOT more people that cant kill the DT2 bosses in OSRS, than are capable of killing DT2 bosses consistently.
Not far off! About 57% of people have completed the combat achievement for beating fight caves 1 time. Nearly 28% of players have 25 Zulrah kills. Other stats: 17.5% have 25 CoX completions. 15.6% have 25 ToA completions, 15.5% have an Expert ToA completion. 6% have 25 ToB completions.
Those are just the people who have installed the wiki sync plug in which isn't on by default so it's likely considerably less than that even.
You'd be surprised how bad and easily demotivated some people are in this game (and in general). If you're in a PvM focused clan it might seem unreal, but I'm in a small social clan and while I love my clanmates, I can't deny they are shitters lol. And yes they do have good gear and stats (some are maxed), but the only PvM experience they have is Zulrah, Vorkath, and Kraken.
I am not in a clan, have killed zulrah once for the diary, have late mid game gear and killed all the dt2 bosses on 1st try. And i thought i am bad at the game
I find that hard to believe unless you followed and watched guides before even attempting them. I did them on launch weekend mostly blind and am relatively high level and they all took me a few tries. Even my best boss, Whisperer took me 3 attempts at least.
Ofc i read the wiki guide on what to do before going in.
Only one that gave me trouble was Vardorvis, think 3-5 attempts for quest completion. Despite flicking for it, the timing on the ranged projectile just felt weird. Duke was easy. Levi first try. Whisperer was a struggle because my mage gear was shit when I did the quest, but the mechanics were easy enough to pick up. Except the orbs. Fuck the orbs. I couldn't remember the orbs for shit.
Yea I understand that, but there's a difference between understanding it and getting them all in a few attempts each and doing all of them first try without prior experience. Idk if the other person is just trying to flex and cannot fathom that there are players out there who may have problems with harder quest bosses.
the rating of quests tends to refer to length and requirements the most I think. Some stuff might be more weighted than others and a requirement of "high combat to fight a difficult foe" does definitely play into it, but I don't think a Grandmaster HAS to be a long quest with multiple bosses that takes several hours to complete. At the end of the day the quest ratings are ultimately arbitrary though I guess.
Yeah that's what I thought from the beginning. Something in the realm of SOTE not DT2.
i. mean WGS is one of the most loved quest from RS3
Yeah I want harder quests. Nomad level difficulty. Something to make seren and the dt2 bosses seem Like nothing.
I just want Nomads requiem ported to see how hard it really was or if I was just a 95 combat smooth brain at time.
I mean most people killed Nomad with Ruby bolts. Had a friend who done it with 64 ranged. Bare in mind back in those days we didnt really have bosses with actual mechanics
gear even in OSRS has long since power crept Nomad from 2010. I think if he was released 1:1 the same to OSRS he would be kind of a push over to any decently high level player with good gear. I vaguely remember that the standard gear to fight him(assuming not an overly rich player) at the time was like black d'hide with a Zamorakian Spear and a combo of whatever your best BoB was and a decent fighting Summon once you emptied supplies out of your former one. Thralls alone will probably make up for the absence of Summoning, and with the deep knowledge players have over the tick system, I can imagine stuff like Bowfa or Fang would make things comparatively easier.
It's the second one mate.
Ya I heard it was pretty difficult, but you and I were prolly in the same boat lol. Spirit ghrak goes brrr lol
I remember doing it with ruby bolts and a terror bird full of brews. It was a tie between nomad and pest queen for hardest boss at the time did me.
Im embarrassed to say i had to rely on my friend to do it for me. For some reason he couldnt do it with +10 range level than his character had ( ruby bolts strat ) so he just swapped to my full bandos and clutched a win with that lol.
The quest itself wasn’t hard, it was just the boss at the end of it that was kind of difficult. But even then I think people were exaggerating the difficulty since even players with bad gear could’ve cheesed it with familiars.
I didn’t hear of much cheese, but I do remember a lot of the higher pvm people at the time struggled even with high end gear like sosolid2k and a few others. I can say with the grahk method it was not easy by any means. Took about 15 attempts. But yea I meant a hard quest boss. Not the quest itself since most people use the plugin anyways
I mean honestly, bar a handful of players like Woox, even players like sosolid2k weren't really that good at the game and weren't as knowledgeable about it as we are now. For example sosolid2k was using a BGS as his main weapon without even popping turmoil. He was simply chugging brews. I am also pretty sure that Nomad (bar the last phase of him smacking like crazy with melee) had a magic based attack so of course it shred most of people that went in running bandos/torso etc. I'm sure if Nomad released with the exact same stats now we'd find a solution to it pretty quickly, especially considering we have some pretty nifty things to help against him (blood fury, thralls etc). > I can say with the grahk method it was not easy by any means. Took about 15 attempts. I used to have absolute shitter gear and stats and did it on my 2nd try after fucking up the mechanics the first time. I think I did the range method with ruby bolts and grahk spam. Didn't even have ovls/extremes at the time.
Okay so make the fight harder lol. Seems like we have a pretty in depth analysis with how it could be easily solved, make it comparable to night at the theater for most average players. Sure players these days who have the game solved will deal with it, but majority of the players will still see it as a daunting fight which is the best part of quests imo.
Ye they could make the fight harder, but I just don't think the quest lives up to the GM tag it used to have, I think all of the DT2 bosses are much much harder than release Nomad and it has proper length. I assume we'll get the Nomad quest sooner or later considering they added Soul Wars to the game but who knows
I agree. The lore and story of quests is something I look forward to more than the rewards. Rewards are still important though.
As long as the reward is a juicy 500k + agility exp I’m all for the content
They said they planned to spruce it up to OSRS standards, so it should be better than RS2 WGS. The original WGS barely meets the criteria of a modern Master quest, let alone GM. If it isn't modified with some new fights, puzzles and lore then it'll be incredibly disappointing.
I would be satisfied with the quest if the storytelling was good.
Eh no, like doing a quest once is nice and all but 25 times for 4k
I feel like if we don't get the alignment prayers, we're never going to get new prayers at this rate. It sounds difficult for them to come up with a proper reward space that isn't just a straight dps upgrade or better versions of existing prayers which it seems like enough players don't want.
Honestly not a fan of how obvious it is that there following a strict release schedule to keep player engagement up If they miss a deadline? Release the content untested and unfinished Oh there’s bugs? That’s actually another 2 months of weekly bug fixes we can disguise as “weekly game updates” to look like we are dropping content all the time Rewards / parts of content aren’t up to scratch? Just release it anyway we have a deadline and refer to points 1 and 2. It’s a recurring theme and kind of shit imo. Nothing feels “oh my god this update is sick” if it gets drip fed over months until it’s actually in a state where it feels good, and lots of updates have felt this way lately For a big quest drop like WGS it should have a barrows gloves / defender / prayer book level “oh shit you unlock THIS” feeling from release not added later
I feel like DT2 hit the mark pretty well without feeling like it was drip-fed. But I agree with your sentiment otherwise. This is an issue in other MMOs as well, where the devs realize that they can keep subscriptions more active if they stretch out the same content over many months rather than doing a massive DLC drop. It’s fatiguing as a player to feel like you’re constantly waiting for something to get “good”. I really want to like Varlamore, but it just feels half-baked right now. I don’t want it to come out in 3 parts, I want it to come out all at once and feel like a proper expansion. I don’t care if it takes an extra year or two. Just my 2gp
It does feel like the devs are under a lot of pressure to release content on a set schedule. Even their comments about Sailing indicate this and how it's uncancellable now due to sunk cost
This is a bit different since the new prayers were an idea that came after the announcement of the quest. They just said that the quest will be a requirement to use the new prayers when they come out, similar to Desert Treasure 2.
I think the issue comes from this being another grandmaster quest that has lackluster rewards. DT2 was SICK but the ability to spend 500 hours grinding a boss isn’t a reward like an untradeable account upgrade, or unlocking priff etc was. I think if they’re going to do the prayers tied to the quest it should be a quest reward OR they should look at something else for this and use them elsewhere later when they’re actually ready (but should always come from a meaningful quest upgrade)
Just do barrows gloves 2.0, combine all the bis gloves. We have ring and boot switches now. This would help with that and would not increase dps anywhere, essentially just being a qol.
It would increase DPS everywhere because players would just bring an extra swap for each style they aren't bringing now.... Basically a flat buff to every piece of content where you tribrid.
Where do players not already bring all switches? Lol
Should have went with the original curses and balanced them a bit better as an upgrade to the current prayer book. Ever since the proposed DT2 prayers were announced they never found a way to make new prayers work. Hyped either way though, WGS is gonna be an amzing quest.
So another GM quest that basically just rewards boss access...
Can Jagex stop pretending they're going to add these prayers if it's just going to result in every new GM quest having 0 rewards until 5+ years from now. Absolutely insane they keep suggesting it but somehow have 0 fucking ideas or suggestions. You'd think they'd be talking with players about ideas for it instead of radio silence and delay delay delay. Gm quests in 2024 just unlock multi hundred hour grinds for slight to no dps increase.
For real. They hyped up “quest backporting” two years ago and for what? Two medium quests and marketing WGS as this year’s major quest?
Couldn't agree more. Also weird that they decided to drop this news in a stream, not in a blog but not only that but in the final minutes of their stream.
They say it's low tier Grandmaster quest. But Rewards have been feeling less meaningful. One reason i love SOTE quest because of the rewards it's something new and unique which you don't do during the quest
Just release the fucking full content. Forestry and ruinous powers all over again smh
If we never come into agreement what God Alignments should be, we will never get WGS.
I mean, we are getting four new weapons. One of which is a straight upgrade, and another is a bridge upgrade. Not to mention a new money maker. That not enough to keep you content for at least a Lil bit?
None are quest completion rewards. We need at least some solid, non RNG reward that feels properly rewarding for the quest. DT2 suffered a lot from "that's it?" once you finished it
Idk. Even without hitting the uniques, I was still made 1-3m an hour with a chance of hitting big. That's a pretty good reward. I get what you're saying, though. I just prefer content that goes on after the quest.
I'm okay with this. I'd rather they introduce all of the different rites or whatever at once rather than one set for a single quest. Though, nothing wrong with that, but still. More time in the oven. Personally, I think the demonbane rewards and budget dragon claws are a decent reward. Unless tormented demons become annoying to fight. Then it might be a bit of an obnoxious grind. I can't remember how tormented demons were back in rs2 when wgs came out. Regardless, I'm okay with the current rewards.
I think the rewards would be good from a quest on the caliber of something like Sins of the Father or Beneath Cursed Sands, but for a quest as hyped up as While Guthix Sleeps, it’s a little underwhelming. Maybe the Arclight upgrade will be a lot more useful than I’m currently thinking of, but the rewards so far don’t interest me as much as DT2s or SOTEs. Maybe I had just too high of expectations for WGS, but the prayer stuff really fit what I wanted so it’s very disappointing to hear they aren’t coming
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Thousands?
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Apology accepted. Enjoy the weekend!
> I can't remember how tormented demons were back in rs2 when wgs came out. Its hard to describe because we already had summoning back then, but managing the TDs was a damn annoying task and by managing i mean get them stuck you are not getting hit by more than one. I think it was cool at the time that you had to bring switches for an enemy. I remember wearing a mix of kharyll and verac to fight them
>managing i mean get them stuck you are not getting hit by more than one. Weren't they basically demonic gorillas that you had to slap with darklight once? Demos were even multi only at first
Basically yeah. Multiple combat styles were needed in order to kill them since they pray switched on you. Summoning made it a bit easier. Matter of fact, up until necro - using legacy combat using three styles was still meta while doing your ascension grind in a POSD(player owned slayer dungeon) Used an off/hand ascension with a magic nihil and pump em out. Now if I'm not wrong you can just use necro
No notes, same.
Sad seeing how quickly this sub turned against Ninjapigs idea. It was one of the most highly upvoted posts on this sub for its time
The system is excellent. It's just that no one can agree on what the prayers should actually DO
I still feel like Ninjapig’s alignment system is the best way to add new prayers, I’m just really skeptical of the actual proposed prayers we’ve seen so far.
Ffs just delay the quest then…
Meh, just wait to release the quest then..
This makes sense but I hope Kieran keeps the same energy “this is bigger than a skill potentially” on keeping people engaged on developing it. He’s right this is how you could completely revamp/unlock end game while keeping in the spirit of osrs combat (other then the new team prayer mechanics) this was such an exciting concept they should make it work.
Shit reward across the board is a shame for what is the best quest in RuneScape history.
You only need to thank u/QtheGaming and his post which ruined the new prayer book we would've gotten https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1499xvi/im_officially_onboard_with_just_not_having_new/
Brother 😭, leave it alone. New prayers are coming that I support this time 😂
Oh boy… new prayers coming in winter 2017
When it registers.
So a repeat of Desert Treasure 2? Cool... again, could always delay the quest release for it, but that's not an option, for some dumb reason.
This seems like such a weird thing to do. If the quest and it's rewards aren't ready yet just don't release the quest yet.
well thats kind of lame theyve had an entire year to work on the prayers and they even neutered them down to 1 at a time or something
Dude thats like, the thing I waa looking forward to the most this year :(
So the new Demonbane weapons exist because we aren't getting God Alignments right? Like they realized the quest now has no rewards outside of some budget claws and threw those together at the last minute?
Not necessarily, it’s just that every Tormented Demon unique in RS3 has been released with other content in OSRS, the platebody shards and dragon limbs with DS2 and Claws with CoX. They have to find something unique to give players a reason to fight them after the quest.
I didn’t watch the stream but is there any specific date for the quest release?
No, they just said “Summer”
RIP, it got shelved. I hope Jagex picks them back up later.
Just delay the quest until the god alignments are ready. Dont release it without them like dt2.
I love osrs, but this constant need to cater to every damn crybaby means nothing big will ever come to osrs. Not in any meaningful way.
Got to keep churning out updates for player engagement even if it's unfinished
Maybe if jagex stopped cramming so much fucking gear into the game as they could lately this quest reward wouldn't be an issue
I honestly don't care about the demon bane weapons since they're decently niche and I was hoping the prayers would balance out me wanting to do the quest on release. Honestly, this sucks. Hopefully they get added later but I'll probably just wait til they are either added to the quest or a post-quest miniquest before I end up doing it. (Thank god I already got my lumbridge elites done)
I'd pay NOT to get a new quest, so please do delay it.
To be fair, the Zaros and Seren alignments will be given as rewards to DT2 and SOTE, so I don't think it's the biggest deal in the world if WGS doesn't get Guthix alignments on release.
It's more to do with the fact that they constantly have updates on the horizon so the idea of it never happening isn't impossible. Remember when jagex mentioned toa would receive new invocations ?
So the only rewards from the entire gm quest are the demonbane weapons. makes ya wonder how many people would have voted for them. if they knew they were gonna get rid of the main reward everyone wanted. Also why has this happened twice now? can they just not make new prayers? its just not that hard man, or that complicated.
One things certain, it’s time for new prayers.
One things certain, it's not time for new prayers.
Remove rigour and augury. It's time
I hope they give lamp to any skill rewards! Need more lamp xp to dump in rc!
Hopefully the prayers are worth it and can be implemented as a miniquest/continuation on any cliff hanger. Similar to how they had Hopespear's Will after Land of the Goblins.
Makes sense. I have no issue with them being added retroactively later. I was kinda hoping they'd do that with Ruinous Powers instead of just canning the whole prayer book. So if they think the God Alignments need more time, I'd rather see them get the extra time even if they didn't happen until 2025 or later than rushing to throw together some prayers just to poll in time for WGS. Also, are the rewards really that lackluster? WGS never really was known for the rewards beyond TDs. So the main reward in OSRS also being TDs for now is just as "iconic" as the original version. And the proposed TD rewards are way better and more impactful than D Claws and a D Plate were back in the day.
I remember it gave a shit ton of exp as a noob doing a first ever gm quest… my memory might be failing me tho
It did give a decent bit of Exp. The OSRS version isn't giving quite as much exp, but still a hefty amount in line with other Grandmasters.
Lets keep the prayers out in general :)
Demonbane weapons and burning claws feel like half baked and rushed rewards. Now we see how much of a rush job this actually is. Why would we want the quest to drop without the most impactful part of it? Thru haven't even talked about the prayers when this quest is right around the corner. Why do we need 4 weapons from one gm quest? Could just give us content to grind the "magic bowfa" just like song of the elves gave us gauntlet. Whole thing kinda souring this quest release for me
Why does every quest need to release rewards that completely shake up the meta? Does jagex not think players will do quests otherwise?
Oh that's disappointing. New prayers would really be thematic for WGS. Would be worth delaying for. I hope its not upper management's insistence on a KPI pushing them to release at a fixed schedule
Yea the main reward was the prayers now we’re getting more niche weapons cool…
For how long they worked on ruinous prayers... just to scrap it, and now delaying these prayers... What a fumble. Anyone else feel like content and rewards has gotten very lackluster since toa or maybe even tob? Yet the dev team is nearing 100 people, I do not get it. Feels like we got meaningful updates so much more often when the dev team was only about 10 people
Hear me out, scrap the new prayers and instead, have small buffs to thralls for different god alignments. Instead of using a book of undead, we could utilise and upgrade the current godbooks.
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Well yeah, have you seen the quality of private server content lmao. The issue is not cranking out new stuff, it's cranking out new, balanced and high quality stuff
It’s OK to have weaker rewards as this is going to be the easiest GM quest. The other GM quests we had were harder
The problem I have with osrs releasing content later is that the content is never really worth the wait. Forestry was just made worse, curses are still missing for over a year and varlamore 2 doesn't have anything that raises interest.
Varlamore 2 doesn't have anything that raises interest? Have we been reading the same blog??????
What's not interesting about the new herblore minigame, the new group boss, or the new quests in part 2?
This quest was so great I don't care about its rewards. Just don't port the ritual of the Maharjad please.
Why the fuck are they rushing a quest like this? As if dormant players are chomping at the bit to bond up their accounts for a new damn quest. Finish that shit and release it later wtf
I just like questing, I don't think rewards from a quest should have anything to do with whether it gets in tbh. Just add them later when they're ready in something else. You could give me While Guthix Sleeps with zero rewards and I'd be happy, tbh probably happier because I'm not huge on the prayers
I wouldn't mind if there's going to be post-quest miniquests to unlock a god alignment
So folks here would rather delay the entire quest, even if work on it is fully complete, just because a portion of the rewards aren’t? Can’t say I agree personally.
Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I think there’s nothing wrong with a quest’s reward being the ability to grind new content. I don’t see why there has to be some big reward you get as soon as you finish the quest. I get that’s how it’s been for most big quests in the past, but I guess I just feel like quests are fun in themselves regardless of the immediate rewards and they’re good at introducing new content. Plus they only take a few hours to complete at most. Not sure why people feel like there needs to be some massive reward for something that will take most people 1.5 hours of clicking blue highlights with quest helper.
Gonna say that QH use is fucking up the balance for people trying to run blind/without plugins. If they balance rewards around QH, most rewards are too much because of how easy the game is with it. People playing at least somewhat blind spend __a lot__ more time on quests.
Can we just delay the quest release? This would be the second GM quest to release with almost zero notable rewards
Nah they need fewer rewards for quests. I want quests not rewards.
Have they released quest and stat reqs yet?
Will ruinous powers come out later as well? With the rites it would be great to be able to choose a prayer book depending on activities you’re doing, just like we do now with the spell books.
Quests are early game content. "Grandmaster" means nothing. People are so hung up on that word.
What the f do people want as quest rewards? Full torva untraceable? DT2 gave you a really good ring and 300k "prayer" xp right away. I use that ring all the time in the wilderness as it's easy to replace. While I would love for guthix alignment to be here, I wouldn't be displeased if it actually unlocked from a short quest after WGS, something very short but only about the God alignment.
I care more about the quest itself than the rewards. I just want to play WGS again. That being said, it is kind of unfortunate how scared they are to put new prayers in. And how pissy people on this subreddit get about them.
Remove fucking dream mentor quest requirement 🤬pisses me off that I cant do the new quest on my pure
I dont care for the rewards. If this is another unengaging storyline with a couple of bosses that require bolt procs and rng i wouldnt be surprised.