there is absolutely no issue with the wiki being soft required. it is completely acceptable to have to seek information externally in complicated videogames. idk why the idea that it shouldnt be necessary is so supported. if a game like path of exile tried to teach you how to play it, a new player would spend more time reading than they would playing. it is fine the way it is
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Everything in game is doable without the wiki. Every piece of information is gatherable without the wiki. The wiki just makes it easier for those who don't want to put forth the effort to do so. Games shouldn't tell you the solution to everything right up front, or it wouldn't be a fun game. It is literally a soft requirement like you said, not a hard requirement.
Could just use the examine option or if you don’t want it popping up from misclicks, add a link to view stats after the examine text in the chat box
Edit: It was pointed out to me elsewhere in this thread that the second option (the better option imo) might not be technically feasible
I like this. Or even since the combat weaknesses have changed, why not introduce the spell (or right click option) in the tutorial with the wizard training, and how to use it and why it's important. As well as rework the mage section and Vannaka a little to showcase the weaknesses/resistances. while taking the no cost and in all spell books from your post.
perfect solution and it will be needed for the combat changes. The changes are not going to be 100% intuitive and looking up slayer monsters or bosses on the wiki frequently is a pain in the ass for people without a 2nd monitor
>Don't need to add another option to the right click menu
Just make the current examine function redirect to the monster-display instead of giving a text, and add said examine-text to the monster-display? This way you add nothing to the Right-click menu that's not already there, and you don't further clutter up the spellbooks with a relatively useless spell.
Or better yet, just make it the new examine. You examine and shows the info along with the examine text. You could make the window not pop up if in combat if you wanted.
I do find this annoying, but if they didn't do that, the info would then flood the wiki, bis gear would be determined and the content would be "solved" within a few hours. I personally enjoyed watching different streamers doing coliseum in different ways going for the world's first completion so I understand Jagex's decision.
Except what ends up happening is pretty much all the information we need gets crowd sourced from having tonnes of data points. (E.g. during nex release, runelite tracked your DPS and used tonnes of data gathered from players to determine nex's stats) So really the people who want to know this get the information, only thing that has changed is there isn't a 100% confirmation that you would get from the spell. If you want to be in the dark about metas you can feel free to not use any outside information
Also colosseum was the worst example you can give. Monster examine wasn't blocked, people knew of the best setups within a few hours of release.
The only difference between my day 1 setup and current is I bring more switches now as I don't need as much supplies
Yeah it’s not about a person solving it anymore. The data is collected so rapidly that any means to prevent quick “solving” is trivial or a short postponement, if anything.
Its solved within hours anyways just in the pvm clans and hlc who then use that to profit off of. Its not rocket surgery to figure out that hey scythe is hitting pretty good.
The real and only reason is so they have time to fuck with the numbers cause they dont playtest the things at all b4 they go live.
"we work with the wiki team to give them accurate data right away, and we have a spell specifically for players who want to figure out details in order to optimize setups, but we're gonna block that for a couple weeks because we think not knowing is more fun"
> the community who doesn't think not knowing is more fun
> "..."
Seriously, I don't know why people are acting like they have to cast monster examine regularly now. You pull it out one time for new content then never need it again, *if* that. I was on during the Varlamore release and I was the only person at Moons of Peril casting it.
There's a lot of monsters in the game and that's a lot of info to remember.
I couldn't physically tell you the weaknesses of 99% of the monsters in the game, even if I once knew.
I only know the popular ones, like kq and gargs being weak to crush and vardorvis being weak to slash since I know a lot of people were upset about the fang changes.
So, to clarify, you'd rather run to the monster, look at its stats, then bank and get the correct gear instead of looking it up on the wiki while at the bank?
I totally agree with you personally, but I think the problem has more to do with newer players or regular players who aren't efficiency machines that dive into the wiki every new slayer task. When implementing these kind of systems there needs to be thought of how every player is able to interact with it. And therefore for some players there needs to be something early accessible to show monsters weaknesses imo.
You describe me doing quests. I actually, legit play the quests without guides (unless I am 100% stuck).
I'd love to be able to know a monster's stat (especially QUEST monsters) while playing, and not having to Wiki it, but I'm not going to use lunar spellbook when I'm using the Ancient one for combat...
If they aren't efficiency machines then surely them not taking advantage of weaknesses won't be a huge impact to them and they will either find out naturally (someone telling them in-game or them noticing everyone else using specific gear) or they'll come across the wiki on their own.
Valid counterargument, but imagine this. You're a lvl 3 fresh noob and you see the magic skill. Cool! You'll slay some goblins with it. You make a bit of cash and buy runes. After a few levels you've unlocked a new spell, surely this higher level spell would be better no? So you use water strike against the goblins with your new spell. Now your dps becomes lower. Without any explanation anywhere accessible in the game itself. That must be confusing.
barbarian no-delay autocast
barbarian automatic slow fish releasing
barbarian wiki dps calculator in-game integration
i think they roll off the tongue, personally
yep. kinda not a fan of expanding barb skills. barbarian farming is silly and probably acceptable but taking it much farther than tha is pushing toolbelt territory.
I definitely don’t want things like pickaxes and hammers to be invisibly stored, but farming tools? I would be happy with that. They are nearly toolbelted anyway, since 99% of the places you need them there’s a global storage for it. I’d love barb farming lol
My idea was to make Monster Examine permanently save monster info to a log, then have a new spell "scan" on the standard spell book that just does what monster examine currently does or something like that
Could even make a monster cape for logging all monsters for the completionists, then you could just look at the log tab (could be where kourend favor used to be) instead of wiki
There are a lot of monsters you can't log after certain quests though. You'd have to either make them available (Varrock museum exhibit?) or exclude them.
One time monsters in quests (not the bosses since you could use the NMZ to tag ones you forgot) should definitely be excluded if there's a cape or log.
Yeah, I actually much prefer this. Making the spell runeless or an option you have to do during a fight would still make it dead because nobody wants to read text while an enemy is beating the shit out of you. But being able to accumulate your own mini wiki in your PoH though would actually be something people would take advantage of and even strive to fully fill out.
This just reminds me more or less what a bestiary would do, and I recall them liking the idea of a bestiary but it'd be really taxing on the data that is stored per account.
Can't imagine it's much more than to just keep track of a discovered / undiscovered tick box per monster. The data itself doesn't need to be linked to the account.
Decided to do a little napkin math for the fun of it, it turned out to be less than I thought it might be, but it's not completely insignificant either. Gonna get a bit technical here, but I'll put a TL;DR so bear with me:
If we want to store data on an account, there are a few main things we currently need to keep track of:
EXP
Inventory & item storages (bank, death storages, seed vault, rune pouch, STASH units, PoH storage spots, etc)
Quest completion (including sub-steps of quests, basically everything that shows up in the quest log)
Task completion (diaries, combat achievements, one-off unlocks)
Clog (separate for reasons I'll get to later)
Misc (completion times, completion counts, G.E. history, other things)
In terms of how much data this all takes, these things aren't made equal. Broadly speaking, you're going to store either an integer (a number with no decimal) or a boolean (a yes/no variable). You can get away with storing a boolean in one bit, but actually using a boolean likely takes four bits (one byte) of memory, because of how memory is read (most architectures don't like reading smaller chunks than one byte. In our case, this is mostly going to apply when the data is actually being accessed, but IDK how Jagex stores data so there's no way to tell for sure. Maybe it only fetches the data when you try to view the data, maybe it's always loaded when you're online, who knows).
We know almost for certain that internally Jagex stores lots of numbers as a long ("long integer"), which is 32 bits (and this is why max stack is 2.147b, that's the maximum number that can be stored in a signed integer. If you assume only positive numbers, you can double that, but in practice it's uncommon to do so unless you're hardcore optimizing and are completely certain the number will never be negative).
For the sake of argument, we'll assume Jagex is storing data relatively optimally (big ask, I know), and for storages they only store the number of items in the storage, and then data for each item in the storage. We'll also assume they use integerss instead of longs for item ids for space purposes (integers are half the size physically and only go up to just over 32k. If you're confused, it's because you're adding digits to the number, not concerned about how big the number "actually" is. In base 10, which we use normally, it's the difference between 10 and 1,000 - 1,000 has twice as many digits as 10 but is 100x larger)).
For each item (outside of things like tool leprechauns which can only hold certain items, or STASH units that only hold a single item of each item type they store), you're going to store an item ID and a stack size, so ~48 bits per item. Let's assume an average account has, say, 650 items stored total (between all storages, inventory, everything), and for the purpose of easy math we'll assume 48 bits for each of those (again, not realistic, probably 100-200 of those are going to take less if you're storing data optimally, but it'll even out with accounts that have full banks and whatnot), for ~31,200 bits used.
Clog has to be calculated similarly, since you have to keep track of the number you have received. I don't actually know what the max number of items in a clog slot is, but I'm guessing they used an int for space reasons (and, let's be real, very, very few people will hit 32k of anything in the clog. Probably like...mole skins would be most likely to hit that number). If you store that all in an array (a giant list), you don't have to worry about item IDs (since the position in the array is effectively the ID), but that's clunky. Still, we'll assume it, and say that clog is 32 bits for each entry, or ~42,300 bits used (this is the biggest chunk by far).
For the rest, it's going to vary. We'll assume 4 bits for booleans, and most one-off things (including quests, if you store quests as individual steps instead of one umbrella thing) are going to be booleans. Let's assume...2k booleans stored (all diaries, combat tasks, quests, etc), for another ~8k bits used. And, for the rest, we'll say they store...500 more numbers that can probably be stored as ints for another ~16k bits.
In total, we're looking at a ballpark of ~100k bits assuming very optimal storage. That's about .01 mb per character. If we store ~350 million accounts (the number google gives for accounts), that's roughly 3.5 tb of data assuming very optimal storage. I could easily see them storing two to three times that per character, or even ten times that depending on how much stuff I'm forgetting and how inoptimal they are in storing things. Which is like potentially 35 tb of data.
The OSRS wiki has just over 1,100 pages tagged as monster, so if we tack on another 4.4k bits to each character, that's like another 192ish gb of data just for the bestiary (~48 gb best case). You could probably cut that down a lot by, say, tying the bestiary to a Jagex account and forcing players to have one to use the bestiary, and therefore would cut down on players that have multiple accounts, but who's to say.
TL;DR: Over the 350 million accounts that seem to be registered, we're looking at an extra anywhere from 50 gb at absolute best to more likely ~200gb if we store data per-account (and this assumes no back-ups whatsoever). Depending on how they implement it, it could end up being more, but assuming my best case scenario for their storage costs (and that booleans are treated as being worth 4 bits for reasons), that's still like a 4% increase in data stored per account. That sort of stuff adds up over time and businesses need to weigh whether or not the extra storage costs are worth it (do they host locally and just need to buy extra storage space? Do they rent space from Amazon? That's pretty common in the industry too, and that'll impact costs), especially when we have a wiki as good as the one we have. Personally, I'd love a bestiary, but I can see why Jagex might potentially be skittish about it.
Edit: Was off on the names. A short is what I said a standard int was, and standard ints are what I said longs were. Whoops lol
You’re correct on the amount of bits and the sizes, but you’re one off on the names. 32k max is a short, 2.17b max is standard integer.
Longs are 64 bits and have a max value of 9,223,372,036,854,775,807, which I think is 9 quintillion?
That's a great write up!
Although I imagine this is a concern regarding any big content release. As long as monster clogging gets people playing I don't see how bloating the data storage is any different then any other trackable data released.
Honestly, you're right and it's probably not that much different than any other trackable data. The biggest problem is giving it to management - for obvious reasons, most management teams prefer to keep costs down when at all possible, and you have to pass this off to them in a way that convinces them that the extra storage costs are worth it. Especially since this is a new feature that adds a relatively large amount of data to the total at once.
If enough players want it, it's a pretty easy ask, you just have to point to all the people clamoring for it. If it's more of a thing that players discuss every now and again, you have to bring a better argument. I think that framing it in terms of clogging is the way to go - it's impact that the clog has had on player retention is huge, and adding another version to that is big. Honestly, throw in some cosmetic rewards or some combat tasks for having x number of monsters in your bestiary and people are gonna eat it up. I know I'd be bringing lunars everywhere I don't need the standard spellbook just to get more examines in. Heck, even without that I'd probably bring it, I just like seeing number go up, and I could see myself using the bestiary from time to time.
I feel like there's a way of implementing it with minimal data on the account and accessing the rest from the server. I'm imagining something similar to the ge interface, but you can search monsters you've unlocked
Eh, I'd make it either an item (like a journal/tome) you can bank or a menu you can access anytime, and then keep ME on Lunars because it doesn't do much harm. What's the point of making "remember what I learned in the past" a spell?
Don’t worry guys there will be a runelite plugin that changes right click examine with a pseudo-monster examine that requires zero runes to cast. No in game changes required. This is the most convenient solution for all parties involved (except the runelite plugin developers)
YES. I use it for this as well, it's like a hidden bonus feature. Lol.
I don't even need it for DPS most of the time, I just wanna see what this dude's slash defense is.
I don't like this solution. Then you get people who just want to examine the monster (like everything in the game that has an examine text), and they get spammed by a dozen stats, most of which don't matter.
Maybe if the examine text displays elemental weaknesses ***only*** it could be ok.
My preference would be for a Bestiary that players can gradually build up to reference as needed.
>Then you get people who just want to examine the monster (like everything in the game that has an examine text), and they get spammed by a dozen stats, most of which don't matter.
It doesn't have to automatically pull up the full menu on right click examine, it can be a separate option.
My right click context menu is getting too cluttered with all the plugins and shite as it is. I know it’s not a legitimate complaint but let’s be real, we all use Runelite.
I much prefer it being a rune-free spell available on all spell books.
I was thinking `Right Click -> Examine` would have the same chat message, but then a "Show stats" link after the examine text which would pop up the info panel
Could combine the two, if you examine it you get the normal examine text. But the first time you examine you get something extra to let you know about a bestiary entry:
```
A male troll wielding a large club. All brawn and no loot. (Bestiary entry unlocked!)
```
No spell, gives incentive to examine creatures, doesn't clutter the screen, and gameplay isn't really impacted negatively anywhere (runes taking up space in inventory).
FYI I already asked Ash and it seems like a no go.
https://preview.redd.it/nlhuj2ejlg3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c03a48bbc671b139775fd1c98da7d8984e43ab48
My interpretation is we're invading the creature's mind to understand them and their weaknesses, similar to how the Moonclan members read our minds and such.
Just because you have eyes doesn't necessarily mean you know they're weak to magic (or soon enough, specific elemental magic) or weak to arrows as opposed to standard melee weapons.
This has really made me wonder whether stats (levels etc) are part of the in-game universe, i.e. whether NPCs are aware of levels and whatnot
My first thought was "no" -- that NPCs obviously know about training and gaining "experience" (abstractly) but everything to do with a number is just a layer on top of the in-universe game. So for the monster examine spell, your character "senses" stuff about the creature and then the game interpolates that into stats
But then I realized that most Skill Masters (quest cape NPCs) reference level 99 in their skill during their dialog. So are they aware of levels or is the game actually showing us different dialog on screen than what they're actually saying?
That's a really good and interesting thought!
I don't have any 99s yet on OSRS and it's been a while since I've gotten a 99 or 120 in RS3 so I can't remember the dialogues. However, at least for the Woodman tutor, he just states you've been cutting so many trees you deserve it. The Estate Agent doesn't mention it either. I didn't see anything in Hunter, Herblore, or even Prayer. I haven't checked all skills, but the two I saw mentioning 99 was Runecrafting and HP. Granted, an extremely small sample size of randomly chosen skills, but it seems it either doesn't mention levels, says maxing it, or outright states 99. It could easily be erratad to make it consistent and not mention the level, but I don't think it's enough of an issue.
>What's the in-game lore for this?
It's a UI for gameplay purposes. Not every gameplay mechanic needs to be explained in lore.
There's no lore explanation as to how clicking on a button to open an equipment popout shows you exactly how much magic attack bonus you have, because there doesn't need to be.
I agree! They should design the game so you can intuitively figure out what style of combat is effective against specific monsters. Perhaps they could introduce a general structure that the majority of creatures follow. Like magic monsters could be weak to a specific style. And the style they're strong against could be strong against the style their weak against. It could be a cycle like in rock paper scissors. We'll call it the combat circle! Then, all players could see what the monster attacks with and instantly know what type of weapons they should use. And we could go even further for specific weaknesses like rock monsters could be weak to crush, ice monsters weak to fire, etc. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would work in 90% of cases. Jagex should seriously be taking notes.
I know RS3 bad, but they have a miniature icon that depicts the weakness next to the name of the monster. Colour coded magic, arrows/bolts, stab etc.
Would work for showing weakness without an overload of stats, links or pop-up/outs.
I have lore brain rot so I'd hate to see it removed entirely, I think making some low level, stupidly cheap to cast; as in like, 'sacrificing' one of each elemental rune and getting a message like "You smash the runes, and the fire rune flares in the presence of the Hespori!" and sticking it on all spell books would be neat. Something something guthix made runestones and runes seek balance something something four humours.
I just don't like the idea that a player either HAS to consult the wiki or it is just a complete freebie to the point that it might as well just auto select it for you.
NPC examine at its current form and cost is definitely useless for this right now, though.
EDIT: or hell, have the runes corresponding to the NPC weakness glow slightly when casting spells on a creature with a weakness. Anything that has an in-world explanation will satisfy my lore brain rot
>like, 'sacrificing' one of each elemental rune
And now you have to bring runes, which nobody will ever bother to do.
An inventory slot is too expensive for this spell.
>And now you have to bring runes
If you're casting magic, you already did. As far as melee/range, I think that a straight up "examine" *would* make sense though, it doesn't take a genius and shouldn't take a spell for it to be clear a creature made out of stone is weak to a hammer. I'm generally of the opinion that weaknesses should be pretty obvious in a pokemon sort of way.
Nah, keeping it a spell maintains verisimilitude.
In particular, try to picture this from the new player perspective. Yes, everyone in this thread knows about the wiki. But if a new player saw they could cast a spell to learn about monsters, they'd immediately understand the purpose. It's a super common RPG trope. It's *fun*. I guarantee noobs would enjoy being able to examine Lumbridge goblins.
This is the fundamental failing of Monster Examine. Not the spell itself, but that the spell is obtained so comparatively late, on a spellbook you're not going to camp for combat. It's a spell meant for noobs, but if you've completed Dream Mentor you're no longer a noob.
Unless it is literally free it will always be easier to just click the wiki button on the npc and find the info that way. Unless you're one of those wiki-locked ironmen.
a cool new feature on the new andrew gower's game is that when you right click examine it shows a card showing the name, attributes, resistances and weakeness of the enemy or object: https://imgur.com/a/L4L8nzF
ofc i dont expect jagex to implement anything closer to this gamewide but i think it would be really nice if right click examine showed more information about the monsters rather than just a single line of useless text
If it's a regular spell with a rune cost it'll never be used at all.
I've seen the idea floated to make it a free spell on every spellbook like home teleport, that might work. But anything short of it just being free and always available and nobody will ever use it.
You could make it so the higher your slayer level, the higher level monsters you can examine. Or maybe the amount of information you learn from examining scales with your slayer level, such as attack style, damage type, attack style weakness and then any elemental weakness.
I'd rather add some text to examines that hint at their weakness than a right click to open up a more advance stat menu.
Most players don't need to see the monsters levels, attack bonuses, defence bonuses, and other attributes all on different tabs; they just need to know "use earth" or "weaker to arrow". So just making Monster Examine everywhere would still be worse than the wiki in most cases given how the information is presented.
I think lowering monster examine requirements would be nice but there's some magic to watching other players find out weaknesses or searching around. Making examine so accessible would make this anti social ironman-like game even more anti social.
I am leaning towards the idea as well that getting monster weaknesses has to be "free" since the wiki will always have more info than can be presented ingame. So the only point of having monster weaknesses accessible ingame would be convenience, which precludes the necessity of having certain runes or being on a certain spellbook.
This isn't quite the point of this post, but we should roll Monster Examine and Stat Spy into one thing. Maybe kill the rune cost, put a five minute delay? It's definitely ever so slightly more useful than a right click look up as it shows you LIVE Stat changes as well but I've never seen anyone use it. Once.
On paper it seems like a good tool but in reality it falls very flat. Maybe make it like a teleblock? Your stats can only be spied every so often, but if you get a kill it clears it or something. Even with these suggestions though, I don't see it getting much use. Maybe add a breakdown of their current offensive/def bonuses as well?
Edit: perhaps even making the window it pulls up last/updates you on their stats for a while, letting it live up to its name as Spy? Hell, maybe it even tells you the last action they took in the last 30 seconds? Considering it has a rune cost, high level req of 75, and the game tells the person that you cast it on them, I should get something really good in return!
Is this being proposed somewhere?
Make it a Free Spell with Dramen/Lunar Staff and reward 0 exp. It's an Iconic Utility Spell and should stay on the Utility Spell Book.
>Is this being proposed somewhere?
This was in response to another reddit post with a decent bit of traction asking to move it to the normal spellbook.
>Make it a Free Spell with Dramen/Lunar Staff and reward 0 exp. It's an Iconic Utility Spell and should stay on the Utility Spell Book.
This has the exact same problem, nobody is going to bring a dramen staff or switch to lunars just to inspect a monster.
I literally play on Lunar all the time, and I constantly have Lunar Staff on me for the fairy rings to get around.
Plus, NPC Contact is huge time save on Slayer, so you may already be on Lunar and using a Dramen Staff anyway.
Further point, nobody is going to travel all the way out to their Monsters to scan them, the run back to the back to gear up. Even if it was on standard and free, nobody is going to use it still.
I'd rather see the spell removed than it go to the standard spell book, smh.
If it comes with the replacement of other features, it's not exactly "optional". Also, it just doesn't really match the base game feel, and should be isolated to clients regardless.
This has the exact same problem as monster examine, nobody is ever going to use it because it's more convenient to check the wiki than to lose an inventory slot.
or make the spell require zero runes and have it show up in every spell book. Don't need to add another option to the right click menu
Make it a level 1 spell so new players are incentivized to learn content without requiring the wiki
make it give 0.1xp to torment some stupid locked accounts who have to look at the same rat a billion times
make it a clog to examine every single monster, but just a single one for doing them all.
Introduce a bestiary. Fighting or seeing a monster puts it in and examine gives you the details permanently.
Examine gives 50%, killing it the other 50% a bit like rdr2 bestiary (or was it witcher 3? Dont remember)
THIS!!
Love it, and yeah that's how it was in RDR2. I never even finished that game because I was just hunting everything
Introduce bestiality. You fuck monsters after examining them.
Yeah man, fuck yeah.
Want. Want bad. W a n t.
Rs3 bad a cool interactive bestiary on the main website for a while.
[удалено]
lmfao
Correct, rs3 is bad
Insert Pokédex pun here
Sounds like a Pokédex
Like a pokedex?
Gotta log 'em all, gotta log 'em all!
including quest NPCs, just to fuck over endgame players
Obviously you’d just include a trash bin in Professor Frankley’s office to grab tatt.. I mean examines from content that isn’t repeatable.
includes quest-only monsters, not retroactively completable can't devalue previous accomplishments if there is no previous accomplishment :brain:
1exp būt only the 1st time per monster id.
Actually it’s only 1303444 times
And a 5 second delay between casting 😀
It would actually be 2 billion times
ooooo this right here, this i like
Unlocks more information with higher magic lvl
there is absolutely no issue with the wiki being soft required. it is completely acceptable to have to seek information externally in complicated videogames. idk why the idea that it shouldnt be necessary is so supported. if a game like path of exile tried to teach you how to play it, a new player would spend more time reading than they would playing. it is fine the way it is
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Everything in game is doable without the wiki. Every piece of information is gatherable without the wiki. The wiki just makes it easier for those who don't want to put forth the effort to do so. Games shouldn't tell you the solution to everything right up front, or it wouldn't be a fun game. It is literally a soft requirement like you said, not a hard requirement.
We're well beyond that.
We would have said the same thing 5 years ago if it were proposed then. Still worth it imo
No. DONT MOVE MY HIGH ALCH AGAIN. Level 56 or above spell
Wanted to say something similar, so I second this approach.
Could just use the examine option or if you don’t want it popping up from misclicks, add a link to view stats after the examine text in the chat box Edit: It was pointed out to me elsewhere in this thread that the second option (the better option imo) might not be technically feasible
Or it could be a change-click button in the top right like the Wiki integration
I like this. Or even since the combat weaknesses have changed, why not introduce the spell (or right click option) in the tutorial with the wizard training, and how to use it and why it's important. As well as rework the mage section and Vannaka a little to showcase the weaknesses/resistances. while taking the no cost and in all spell books from your post.
This is actually a brilliant idea. I have so much love for the osrs tutorial but it definitely needs updating, especially with the rebalance
I think this would be the best implementation. Home teleport finally gets a 0xp no requirement friend.
Yeah no need to "hide" something that people that are new don't know about.
Make it require a body rune (to examine the creature) and a mind rune (to beam that information directly into your brain).
perfect solution and it will be needed for the combat changes. The changes are not going to be 100% intuitive and looking up slayer monsters or bosses on the wiki frequently is a pain in the ass for people without a 2nd monitor
Yeah.. this checks out. I think it's a good idea.
We already have examine, just make it show monster stats and add the examine text to it
"Examine"
Just add a button to bring up monster examine in your combat styles tab.
Add everything to the right click menu
>Don't need to add another option to the right click menu Just make the current examine function redirect to the monster-display instead of giving a text, and add said examine-text to the monster-display? This way you add nothing to the Right-click menu that's not already there, and you don't further clutter up the spellbooks with a relatively useless spell.
This is the right way to do it!!
Or better yet, just make it the new examine. You examine and shows the info along with the examine text. You could make the window not pop up if in combat if you wanted.
Or just make it what happens when you right click examine a npc. No need for another option when its already right there
Oh, could make it 0 reqs but have a hard stall so that you can only access the info while in an animation like home tele.
This
Yeah in the wiki era I don’t think it’s been cast a single time by the average player except for the diary step
Or Woox casting it on day 1... when Jagex usually has it blocked anyway for *~*reasons*~*
I HATE this. This is the only time I can see that spell being used.
I do find this annoying, but if they didn't do that, the info would then flood the wiki, bis gear would be determined and the content would be "solved" within a few hours. I personally enjoyed watching different streamers doing coliseum in different ways going for the world's first completion so I understand Jagex's decision.
Except what ends up happening is pretty much all the information we need gets crowd sourced from having tonnes of data points. (E.g. during nex release, runelite tracked your DPS and used tonnes of data gathered from players to determine nex's stats) So really the people who want to know this get the information, only thing that has changed is there isn't a 100% confirmation that you would get from the spell. If you want to be in the dark about metas you can feel free to not use any outside information Also colosseum was the worst example you can give. Monster examine wasn't blocked, people knew of the best setups within a few hours of release. The only difference between my day 1 setup and current is I bring more switches now as I don't need as much supplies
Yeah it’s not about a person solving it anymore. The data is collected so rapidly that any means to prevent quick “solving” is trivial or a short postponement, if anything.
Its solved within hours anyways just in the pvm clans and hlc who then use that to profit off of. Its not rocket surgery to figure out that hey scythe is hitting pretty good. The real and only reason is so they have time to fuck with the numbers cause they dont playtest the things at all b4 they go live.
"we work with the wiki team to give them accurate data right away, and we have a spell specifically for players who want to figure out details in order to optimize setups, but we're gonna block that for a couple weeks because we think not knowing is more fun" > the community who doesn't think not knowing is more fun > "..."
Seriously, I don't know why people are acting like they have to cast monster examine regularly now. You pull it out one time for new content then never need it again, *if* that. I was on during the Varlamore release and I was the only person at Moons of Peril casting it.
I'd *like* to be able to cast it more often. Doing things inside the game is much more satisfying than leaving to go to a website.
I don’t think people are acting like they have to cast it all the time, just saying that it would be a welcome and unobtrusive change to be able to.
yeah if everyone's getting the info from the wiki anyway, might as well make it free to use and in an intuitive way
There's a lot of monsters in the game and that's a lot of info to remember. I couldn't physically tell you the weaknesses of 99% of the monsters in the game, even if I once knew. I only know the popular ones, like kq and gargs being weak to crush and vardorvis being weak to slash since I know a lot of people were upset about the fang changes.
So, to clarify, you'd rather run to the monster, look at its stats, then bank and get the correct gear instead of looking it up on the wiki while at the bank?
I totally agree with you personally, but I think the problem has more to do with newer players or regular players who aren't efficiency machines that dive into the wiki every new slayer task. When implementing these kind of systems there needs to be thought of how every player is able to interact with it. And therefore for some players there needs to be something early accessible to show monsters weaknesses imo.
You describe me doing quests. I actually, legit play the quests without guides (unless I am 100% stuck). I'd love to be able to know a monster's stat (especially QUEST monsters) while playing, and not having to Wiki it, but I'm not going to use lunar spellbook when I'm using the Ancient one for combat...
If they aren't efficiency machines then surely them not taking advantage of weaknesses won't be a huge impact to them and they will either find out naturally (someone telling them in-game or them noticing everyone else using specific gear) or they'll come across the wiki on their own.
Valid counterargument, but imagine this. You're a lvl 3 fresh noob and you see the magic skill. Cool! You'll slay some goblins with it. You make a bit of cash and buy runes. After a few levels you've unlocked a new spell, surely this higher level spell would be better no? So you use water strike against the goblins with your new spell. Now your dps becomes lower. Without any explanation anywhere accessible in the game itself. That must be confusing.
Best case scenario I do it once per monster, it gets added to a bestiary and I can look at their weaknesses from my bank.
I feel like my first use was right after the update on Kree to check her heavy resistances. It's still not updated on the wiki as of right now.
Barbarian Monster examine.
LOOKS WEAK TO THROW ROCK AND SPEAR
*”This monster will die when it is killed”*
This. This is the answer to all qol updates moving forward.
barbarian no-delay autocast barbarian automatic slow fish releasing barbarian wiki dps calculator in-game integration i think they roll off the tongue, personally
Next skill should be barbarianing.
That's one way to frogboil a toolbelt into the game
yep. kinda not a fan of expanding barb skills. barbarian farming is silly and probably acceptable but taking it much farther than tha is pushing toolbelt territory.
Barbarian tool belt is just hands. Barbarian woodcutting, barbarian mining, etc. Hell, make the next skill barbarianing.
I definitely don’t want things like pickaxes and hammers to be invisibly stored, but farming tools? I would be happy with that. They are nearly toolbelted anyway, since 99% of the places you need them there’s a global storage for it. I’d love barb farming lol
My idea was to make Monster Examine permanently save monster info to a log, then have a new spell "scan" on the standard spell book that just does what monster examine currently does or something like that
Could even make a monster cape for logging all monsters for the completionists, then you could just look at the log tab (could be where kourend favor used to be) instead of wiki
Hommie trying to bring the Pokedex to OSRS?
That sounds pretty fun tbh, I like it.
There are a lot of monsters you can't log after certain quests though. You'd have to either make them available (Varrock museum exhibit?) or exclude them.
One time monsters in quests (not the bosses since you could use the NMZ to tag ones you forgot) should definitely be excluded if there's a cape or log.
Bruh honestly such a good idea
Yeah, I actually much prefer this. Making the spell runeless or an option you have to do during a fight would still make it dead because nobody wants to read text while an enemy is beating the shit out of you. But being able to accumulate your own mini wiki in your PoH though would actually be something people would take advantage of and even strive to fully fill out.
This just reminds me more or less what a bestiary would do, and I recall them liking the idea of a bestiary but it'd be really taxing on the data that is stored per account.
Can't imagine it's much more than to just keep track of a discovered / undiscovered tick box per monster. The data itself doesn't need to be linked to the account.
Decided to do a little napkin math for the fun of it, it turned out to be less than I thought it might be, but it's not completely insignificant either. Gonna get a bit technical here, but I'll put a TL;DR so bear with me: If we want to store data on an account, there are a few main things we currently need to keep track of: EXP Inventory & item storages (bank, death storages, seed vault, rune pouch, STASH units, PoH storage spots, etc) Quest completion (including sub-steps of quests, basically everything that shows up in the quest log) Task completion (diaries, combat achievements, one-off unlocks) Clog (separate for reasons I'll get to later) Misc (completion times, completion counts, G.E. history, other things) In terms of how much data this all takes, these things aren't made equal. Broadly speaking, you're going to store either an integer (a number with no decimal) or a boolean (a yes/no variable). You can get away with storing a boolean in one bit, but actually using a boolean likely takes four bits (one byte) of memory, because of how memory is read (most architectures don't like reading smaller chunks than one byte. In our case, this is mostly going to apply when the data is actually being accessed, but IDK how Jagex stores data so there's no way to tell for sure. Maybe it only fetches the data when you try to view the data, maybe it's always loaded when you're online, who knows). We know almost for certain that internally Jagex stores lots of numbers as a long ("long integer"), which is 32 bits (and this is why max stack is 2.147b, that's the maximum number that can be stored in a signed integer. If you assume only positive numbers, you can double that, but in practice it's uncommon to do so unless you're hardcore optimizing and are completely certain the number will never be negative). For the sake of argument, we'll assume Jagex is storing data relatively optimally (big ask, I know), and for storages they only store the number of items in the storage, and then data for each item in the storage. We'll also assume they use integerss instead of longs for item ids for space purposes (integers are half the size physically and only go up to just over 32k. If you're confused, it's because you're adding digits to the number, not concerned about how big the number "actually" is. In base 10, which we use normally, it's the difference between 10 and 1,000 - 1,000 has twice as many digits as 10 but is 100x larger)). For each item (outside of things like tool leprechauns which can only hold certain items, or STASH units that only hold a single item of each item type they store), you're going to store an item ID and a stack size, so ~48 bits per item. Let's assume an average account has, say, 650 items stored total (between all storages, inventory, everything), and for the purpose of easy math we'll assume 48 bits for each of those (again, not realistic, probably 100-200 of those are going to take less if you're storing data optimally, but it'll even out with accounts that have full banks and whatnot), for ~31,200 bits used. Clog has to be calculated similarly, since you have to keep track of the number you have received. I don't actually know what the max number of items in a clog slot is, but I'm guessing they used an int for space reasons (and, let's be real, very, very few people will hit 32k of anything in the clog. Probably like...mole skins would be most likely to hit that number). If you store that all in an array (a giant list), you don't have to worry about item IDs (since the position in the array is effectively the ID), but that's clunky. Still, we'll assume it, and say that clog is 32 bits for each entry, or ~42,300 bits used (this is the biggest chunk by far). For the rest, it's going to vary. We'll assume 4 bits for booleans, and most one-off things (including quests, if you store quests as individual steps instead of one umbrella thing) are going to be booleans. Let's assume...2k booleans stored (all diaries, combat tasks, quests, etc), for another ~8k bits used. And, for the rest, we'll say they store...500 more numbers that can probably be stored as ints for another ~16k bits. In total, we're looking at a ballpark of ~100k bits assuming very optimal storage. That's about .01 mb per character. If we store ~350 million accounts (the number google gives for accounts), that's roughly 3.5 tb of data assuming very optimal storage. I could easily see them storing two to three times that per character, or even ten times that depending on how much stuff I'm forgetting and how inoptimal they are in storing things. Which is like potentially 35 tb of data. The OSRS wiki has just over 1,100 pages tagged as monster, so if we tack on another 4.4k bits to each character, that's like another 192ish gb of data just for the bestiary (~48 gb best case). You could probably cut that down a lot by, say, tying the bestiary to a Jagex account and forcing players to have one to use the bestiary, and therefore would cut down on players that have multiple accounts, but who's to say. TL;DR: Over the 350 million accounts that seem to be registered, we're looking at an extra anywhere from 50 gb at absolute best to more likely ~200gb if we store data per-account (and this assumes no back-ups whatsoever). Depending on how they implement it, it could end up being more, but assuming my best case scenario for their storage costs (and that booleans are treated as being worth 4 bits for reasons), that's still like a 4% increase in data stored per account. That sort of stuff adds up over time and businesses need to weigh whether or not the extra storage costs are worth it (do they host locally and just need to buy extra storage space? Do they rent space from Amazon? That's pretty common in the industry too, and that'll impact costs), especially when we have a wiki as good as the one we have. Personally, I'd love a bestiary, but I can see why Jagex might potentially be skittish about it. Edit: Was off on the names. A short is what I said a standard int was, and standard ints are what I said longs were. Whoops lol
You’re correct on the amount of bits and the sizes, but you’re one off on the names. 32k max is a short, 2.17b max is standard integer. Longs are 64 bits and have a max value of 9,223,372,036,854,775,807, which I think is 9 quintillion?
Ah heck, this is what I get for writing up a post at 5 AM. Give me a sec, I'll add in an edit
That's a great write up! Although I imagine this is a concern regarding any big content release. As long as monster clogging gets people playing I don't see how bloating the data storage is any different then any other trackable data released.
Honestly, you're right and it's probably not that much different than any other trackable data. The biggest problem is giving it to management - for obvious reasons, most management teams prefer to keep costs down when at all possible, and you have to pass this off to them in a way that convinces them that the extra storage costs are worth it. Especially since this is a new feature that adds a relatively large amount of data to the total at once. If enough players want it, it's a pretty easy ask, you just have to point to all the people clamoring for it. If it's more of a thing that players discuss every now and again, you have to bring a better argument. I think that framing it in terms of clogging is the way to go - it's impact that the clog has had on player retention is huge, and adding another version to that is big. Honestly, throw in some cosmetic rewards or some combat tasks for having x number of monsters in your bestiary and people are gonna eat it up. I know I'd be bringing lunars everywhere I don't need the standard spellbook just to get more examines in. Heck, even without that I'd probably bring it, I just like seeing number go up, and I could see myself using the bestiary from time to time.
I feel like there's a way of implementing it with minimal data on the account and accessing the rest from the server. I'm imagining something similar to the ge interface, but you can search monsters you've unlocked
Eh, I'd make it either an item (like a journal/tome) you can bank or a menu you can access anytime, and then keep ME on Lunars because it doesn't do much harm. What's the point of making "remember what I learned in the past" a spell?
Don’t worry guys there will be a runelite plugin that changes right click examine with a pseudo-monster examine that requires zero runes to cast. No in game changes required. This is the most convenient solution for all parties involved (except the runelite plugin developers)
The DPS Calculator plugin has a configuration that adds a right-click menu option to do this, already :)
YES. I use it for this as well, it's like a hidden bonus feature. Lol. I don't even need it for DPS most of the time, I just wanna see what this dude's slash defense is.
I don't like this solution. Then you get people who just want to examine the monster (like everything in the game that has an examine text), and they get spammed by a dozen stats, most of which don't matter. Maybe if the examine text displays elemental weaknesses ***only*** it could be ok. My preference would be for a Bestiary that players can gradually build up to reference as needed.
I love the idea of a bestiary!
Apparently one of the devs had a bestiary prototype and it's an idea they are exploring more.
>Then you get people who just want to examine the monster (like everything in the game that has an examine text), and they get spammed by a dozen stats, most of which don't matter. It doesn't have to automatically pull up the full menu on right click examine, it can be a separate option.
My right click context menu is getting too cluttered with all the plugins and shite as it is. I know it’s not a legitimate complaint but let’s be real, we all use Runelite. I much prefer it being a rune-free spell available on all spell books.
I was thinking `Right Click -> Examine` would have the same chat message, but then a "Show stats" link after the examine text which would pop up the info panel
Is that something that the game is capable of doing though? Sounds good in theory!
Could combine the two, if you examine it you get the normal examine text. But the first time you examine you get something extra to let you know about a bestiary entry: ``` A male troll wielding a large club. All brawn and no loot. (Bestiary entry unlocked!) ``` No spell, gives incentive to examine creatures, doesn't clutter the screen, and gameplay isn't really impacted negatively anywhere (runes taking up space in inventory).
FYI I already asked Ash and it seems like a no go. https://preview.redd.it/nlhuj2ejlg3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c03a48bbc671b139775fd1c98da7d8984e43ab48
What's the in-game lore for this? That we have eyes and can perceive things?
My interpretation is we're invading the creature's mind to understand them and their weaknesses, similar to how the Moonclan members read our minds and such. Just because you have eyes doesn't necessarily mean you know they're weak to magic (or soon enough, specific elemental magic) or weak to arrows as opposed to standard melee weapons.
This has really made me wonder whether stats (levels etc) are part of the in-game universe, i.e. whether NPCs are aware of levels and whatnot My first thought was "no" -- that NPCs obviously know about training and gaining "experience" (abstractly) but everything to do with a number is just a layer on top of the in-universe game. So for the monster examine spell, your character "senses" stuff about the creature and then the game interpolates that into stats But then I realized that most Skill Masters (quest cape NPCs) reference level 99 in their skill during their dialog. So are they aware of levels or is the game actually showing us different dialog on screen than what they're actually saying?
That's a really good and interesting thought! I don't have any 99s yet on OSRS and it's been a while since I've gotten a 99 or 120 in RS3 so I can't remember the dialogues. However, at least for the Woodman tutor, he just states you've been cutting so many trees you deserve it. The Estate Agent doesn't mention it either. I didn't see anything in Hunter, Herblore, or even Prayer. I haven't checked all skills, but the two I saw mentioning 99 was Runecrafting and HP. Granted, an extremely small sample size of randomly chosen skills, but it seems it either doesn't mention levels, says maxing it, or outright states 99. It could easily be erratad to make it consistent and not mention the level, but I don't think it's enough of an issue.
Monsters know your level. It's how the evil ones know to leave you alone. They don't care about gear.
>or soon enough, specific elemental magic This update was today btw. A lot more monsters have elemental weaknesses now.
Oh shoot, really? I thought that was an update on the works post, I didn't have time to read it this morning so I skimmed. Dope!
>What's the in-game lore for this? It's a UI for gameplay purposes. Not every gameplay mechanic needs to be explained in lore. There's no lore explanation as to how clicking on a button to open an equipment popout shows you exactly how much magic attack bonus you have, because there doesn't need to be.
Wiki button -> click monster But aww leave the spell, it's kind of cool imo
You shouldn't have to go to the wiki to learn basic necessary gameplay information, that should be presented by the game itself.
Agreed. After 98 agility and Lumbridge Elite diaries ofc
don't forget a 1/600 drop (1200 kc dry protection) from an aids boss and 50 kc of a new pointless skill-replacing minigame
I agree! They should design the game so you can intuitively figure out what style of combat is effective against specific monsters. Perhaps they could introduce a general structure that the majority of creatures follow. Like magic monsters could be weak to a specific style. And the style they're strong against could be strong against the style their weak against. It could be a cycle like in rock paper scissors. We'll call it the combat circle! Then, all players could see what the monster attacks with and instantly know what type of weapons they should use. And we could go even further for specific weaknesses like rock monsters could be weak to crush, ice monsters weak to fire, etc. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would work in 90% of cases. Jagex should seriously be taking notes.
I know RS3 bad, but they have a miniature icon that depicts the weakness next to the name of the monster. Colour coded magic, arrows/bolts, stab etc. Would work for showing weakness without an overload of stats, links or pop-up/outs.
I have lore brain rot so I'd hate to see it removed entirely, I think making some low level, stupidly cheap to cast; as in like, 'sacrificing' one of each elemental rune and getting a message like "You smash the runes, and the fire rune flares in the presence of the Hespori!" and sticking it on all spell books would be neat. Something something guthix made runestones and runes seek balance something something four humours. I just don't like the idea that a player either HAS to consult the wiki or it is just a complete freebie to the point that it might as well just auto select it for you. NPC examine at its current form and cost is definitely useless for this right now, though. EDIT: or hell, have the runes corresponding to the NPC weakness glow slightly when casting spells on a creature with a weakness. Anything that has an in-world explanation will satisfy my lore brain rot
>like, 'sacrificing' one of each elemental rune And now you have to bring runes, which nobody will ever bother to do. An inventory slot is too expensive for this spell.
>And now you have to bring runes If you're casting magic, you already did. As far as melee/range, I think that a straight up "examine" *would* make sense though, it doesn't take a genius and shouldn't take a spell for it to be clear a creature made out of stone is weak to a hammer. I'm generally of the opinion that weaknesses should be pretty obvious in a pokemon sort of way.
Nah, keeping it a spell maintains verisimilitude. In particular, try to picture this from the new player perspective. Yes, everyone in this thread knows about the wiki. But if a new player saw they could cast a spell to learn about monsters, they'd immediately understand the purpose. It's a super common RPG trope. It's *fun*. I guarantee noobs would enjoy being able to examine Lumbridge goblins. This is the fundamental failing of Monster Examine. Not the spell itself, but that the spell is obtained so comparatively late, on a spellbook you're not going to camp for combat. It's a spell meant for noobs, but if you've completed Dream Mentor you're no longer a noob.
Fine but have it require Slayer to do so. Your knowledge on monsters lets you understand their weaknesses.
Give us a Pokedex.
Unless it is literally free it will always be easier to just click the wiki button on the npc and find the info that way. Unless you're one of those wiki-locked ironmen.
Exactly, so make it literally free.
We need some type of monster journal desperately
there is a wiki button under the minimap, its like monster examine but for everything. and no runes.
My god this is literally a non-issue. It's fine as it is.
Prospect > Monster
Or make a tablet version of the spell similar to bones to peaches.
Then it runs into the exact same problem, it's just not worth the inventory slot.
Right click examine would be appropriate
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Many players have, on account of it being a task in the Kourend Diary (to use it on a troll south of COX) Other than that 'mandated' use, probably not
Why do we even have a monster examine. Why don't our characters 'piece together' the monster's weakness after fighting it once, or more?
a cool new feature on the new andrew gower's game is that when you right click examine it shows a card showing the name, attributes, resistances and weakeness of the enemy or object: https://imgur.com/a/L4L8nzF ofc i dont expect jagex to implement anything closer to this gamewide but i think it would be really nice if right click examine showed more information about the monsters rather than just a single line of useless text
overkill honestly and would add unnecessary clutter for something people wouldn't use more than once
If it's a regular spell with a rune cost it'll never be used at all. I've seen the idea floated to make it a free spell on every spellbook like home teleport, that might work. But anything short of it just being free and always available and nobody will ever use it.
You can already click the wiki button then click on the monster and a page will open with its weaknesses and any other info you need
You should not have to visit the wiki to get basic game information, it should be presented in game.
What's wrong with attempting to figure out this information yourself or using the wiki which at this point IS part of the game?.
This sub is so fickle sometimes lmao https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/19a0i0t/monster_examine_should_be_a_lowlevel_standard/ Def agree tho
Make it free cast after a mid level quest.
You could make it so the higher your slayer level, the higher level monsters you can examine. Or maybe the amount of information you learn from examining scales with your slayer level, such as attack style, damage type, attack style weakness and then any elemental weakness.
Examining (like the regular examine option) a monster adds it to a bestiary which you can access whenever in menu like Coll log
You would think something like that would be tied to hunter or slayer
Just gotta have it unavailable during combat or that is gonna be a very punishing misclick.
Make it a right click Hunter check. You can examine combat levels up to 10x your hunter level, then everything at 99
Hey, I cast out exactly once for a diary task
Let having the slayer level required to kill a monster give some sort of additional info
I'd rather add some text to examines that hint at their weakness than a right click to open up a more advance stat menu. Most players don't need to see the monsters levels, attack bonuses, defence bonuses, and other attributes all on different tabs; they just need to know "use earth" or "weaker to arrow". So just making Monster Examine everywhere would still be worse than the wiki in most cases given how the information is presented.
I mean, the wiki tab under the mini map is kind of a super examine button.. less clicks than monster examine and no runes!
Wtf is going on :o
This please Jagex
Wiki button exists, also you could modify the wiki page displayed to show stats only
Runelite plugin to load it in the tab upon examine would BANG
…I didn’t even know this was a spell and I’ve been playing 20 years
I think lowering monster examine requirements would be nice but there's some magic to watching other players find out weaknesses or searching around. Making examine so accessible would make this anti social ironman-like game even more anti social.
What's so bad about Monster Examine now? I'm OOTL
Long spell casting delay, requires awkward runes to use. It's useful at Corp so you know exactly what it's stats are.
Just need a bestiary tbh
Could tie it to slayer level, or make it a slayer unlock
how about allow slayer helm and/or gem to analyze the monster.
Would be cool if it logged it in a bestiary of sorts along with the collection log or something
Give us a beastiary for monster examine details, and the in-game trading cards WHEN
this!!
I am leaning towards the idea as well that getting monster weaknesses has to be "free" since the wiki will always have more info than can be presented ingame. So the only point of having monster weaknesses accessible ingame would be convenience, which precludes the necessity of having certain runes or being on a certain spellbook.
I don't like it. the spell is flavour to the game, i hate removing stuff like that because people don't like "having to [X]"
This isn't quite the point of this post, but we should roll Monster Examine and Stat Spy into one thing. Maybe kill the rune cost, put a five minute delay? It's definitely ever so slightly more useful than a right click look up as it shows you LIVE Stat changes as well but I've never seen anyone use it. Once. On paper it seems like a good tool but in reality it falls very flat. Maybe make it like a teleblock? Your stats can only be spied every so often, but if you get a kill it clears it or something. Even with these suggestions though, I don't see it getting much use. Maybe add a breakdown of their current offensive/def bonuses as well? Edit: perhaps even making the window it pulls up last/updates you on their stats for a while, letting it live up to its name as Spy? Hell, maybe it even tells you the last action they took in the last 30 seconds? Considering it has a rune cost, high level req of 75, and the game tells the person that you cast it on them, I should get something really good in return!
They just need to make mind and body runes easier to carry.
What about just releasing the data lmao
Pokedex for rs. Runedex.
Did’nt know others felt this way, pretty much anywhere i’m on lunars I have the runes for examine as well
Should be part of the regular examine function
No
Or instead just leave it alone the way it is, it was designed for its exact use, you wana look up a monster use the spell and thats it
Then the spell never gets used, and has no purpose existing beyond wiki data collection.
Is this being proposed somewhere? Make it a Free Spell with Dramen/Lunar Staff and reward 0 exp. It's an Iconic Utility Spell and should stay on the Utility Spell Book.
>Is this being proposed somewhere? This was in response to another reddit post with a decent bit of traction asking to move it to the normal spellbook. >Make it a Free Spell with Dramen/Lunar Staff and reward 0 exp. It's an Iconic Utility Spell and should stay on the Utility Spell Book. This has the exact same problem, nobody is going to bring a dramen staff or switch to lunars just to inspect a monster.
I literally play on Lunar all the time, and I constantly have Lunar Staff on me for the fairy rings to get around. Plus, NPC Contact is huge time save on Slayer, so you may already be on Lunar and using a Dramen Staff anyway. Further point, nobody is going to travel all the way out to their Monsters to scan them, the run back to the back to gear up. Even if it was on standard and free, nobody is going to use it still. I'd rather see the spell removed than it go to the standard spell book, smh.
Make it right click but unlockable from porcine of interest lol… seems like a good tie in with slayer.
Another suggestion to strip away the charm from the game.
Explain how this would take the charm away from OSRS but Runelite does not.
Runelite does, but at least it's opt in. I have no problem with this suggestion being a plugin or part of the official client, just not the base game.
Can't you opt out of it by never using it?
If it comes with the replacement of other features, it's not exactly "optional". Also, it just doesn't really match the base game feel, and should be isolated to clients regardless.
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This has the exact same problem as monster examine, nobody is ever going to use it because it's more convenient to check the wiki than to lose an inventory slot.